This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Linzi Hateley: While you were skipping stones, building forts and flying kites, I was missing school and on the Saturday nights other kids were climbing trees and rolling down hills. I was singing songs to pay my family's bills. Little me, growing up Broadway. Little me.

[0:22] Marc Tumminelli: Hello, I'm Marc Tumminelli, and welcome back to LITTLE ME: Growing Up Broadway. My guest today is Linzi Hateley. At the age of 17, Linzi Hateley went from high school student in London to playing the title role in the original production of Carrie the Musical in Stratford at the RSC, opposite Barbara Cook. The following year she created the role of Carrie in the legendary Broadway production opposite Betty Buckley. Following Carrie, Linzi starred as Éponine in the West End production of Les Misérables and went on to star as the Narrator in the original London Revival of Joseph, for which she received an Olivier nomination. She played Nancy in Oliver!, Roxie Hart in Chicago, Martha in The Secret Garden, Winifred Banks in the original Mary Poppins, as well as Donna in Mamma Mia! and a ton of other roles in the West End.

Her solo albums for the first time, Sooner or Later, and True Colors have been re-released on Spotify and iTunes. It is no secret that I have been obsessed with everything related to Carrie for as long as I could remember. Since I first had an AOL address, I was downloading clips of the show to find out what this thing was, and I fully remember downloading "Eve Was Weak" and the title song "Carrie" and wanting to know everything about this 17-year-old girl who was starring in the show. Of course, I learned a lot from Carrie from Ken Mandelbaum's book, Not Since Carrie, and in 2014, I finally had the opportunity to put my own stamp on the musical Carrie when Broadway Workshop staged one of the first productions following the MCC revisal of the show.

Needless to say, to have the opportunity to sit down with the original star of Carrie to talk about her wild ride creating this role at the age of 17 was truly a joy for me. I have to give a big thank you to Robbie Rosell, who is instrumental in getting Linzi's albums re-released on streaming platforms and also helped me set up this interview. So thank you, Robbie. And if you love this story and you want to dive a little deeper into the story of Carrie, check out Out for Blood, the Carrie Breakdown podcast that is available on the Broadway Podcast Network. It is so incredibly done. It's basically Serial for Carrie. So enjoy my sit-down with Broadway legend, West End star Linzi Hateley.

[2:38] Marc Tumminelli: Hello, I'm Marc Tumminelli, and I'm here with Linzi Hateley. I am so excited to get to chat with you today. You've been on my the top of my list of people I wanted on this podcast. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

[2:50] Linzi Hateley: Oh, thank you. It's lovely, and particularly at a time like this, it's so nice to meet new friends.

[2:57] Marc Tumminelli: Well, hi, new friend. On the LITTLE ME podcast, we talk a lot about the early years of people's careers. You've had such an exciting career and done so many different exciting things throughout your life. But we're gonna go back to the way beginning. Your Wikipedia page says that you were an orphan in Annie somewhere. Where did the career kind of start for you as a little kid?

[3:20] Linzi Hateley: Well, I came from a completely untheatrical background. No one in my family is in the theater or could sing. But apparently, I sort of came out singing practically. So I sort of I wasn't very academic at school, but I loved to see that. Hopeless, completely hopeless. So my parents said they sent me off to dance class, and you know, the usual sort of thing, and I got the bug for it at a really young age. My parents, even though we were very working class, didn't have a huge amount of money. They always seemed to have an album in the house of, you know, the odd like Godspell or, you know, just different things like that, and I sort of got the bug for that sort of musical sound, and sort of carried on doing sort of local sort of dance competitions and, you know, one thing and another, and it just became apparent that I just had a natural flair for it, and there was nothing particularly locally to me that was catering for children like myself at the time.

So actually what actually happened was we heard about some auditions for the film of Annie, and I was about nine at that age, or yeah, I was about nine, and they were going to be doing auditions in London, which for me to go to London was a big deal, you know. I lived in Birmingham, which was sort of, you know, the middle of the country, and so we went down for a day trip. We just thought, well, let's just give it a go, and we queued up with millions of other, you know, young hopefuls, and then I got a recall, and it was just like, what? Recall for the film of Annie? This is ridiculous. So we went back again, and then I had to go again, and this and I ended up going to the finals in London, which was at the Dorchester Hotel.

Well, I mean, bearing in mind that we sort of come up from the sticks and really didn't know, you know, much about anything. We were sort of quite daunted by the fact that I was in Elizabeth Taylor's suite doing a screen test for the film of Annie. And so I did this, I mean it was just wonderful. I remember being given an Annie necklace, which I still have to this day, and it was of the actual cartoon character of Annie. And at the end of the auditions, I said, you know, that I think it was about maybe about 10 of us, and they said, you know, you've all done wonderfully well, please don't be disappointed if you don't hear anything, but if you get a letter through the post, then you know it looks like it could be an exciting time for you.

And we didn't hear any more of it. And then about two months later, I get this letter through the post, and I could see the Annie sign on it, and there's me and my parents who were like, oh my god, I can't believe this, I can't believe this, and we open it up and it said, dear Linzi, we would just like to thank you so much for your wonderful audition. Unfortunately, and I'm just like, no, no, I should have known then it was not a nice business. So that was my sort of opening to the career really, so I sort of did that, and then I auditioned for the show of Annie, which was at the time at the Victoria Palace Theatre in London, but it was in its final, I think it's in its final six months there, and so they wanted local children and I wasn't local, so I didn't get it.

But then it went on its national tour, and I got the parts of Duffy the first time around and then Pepper the second time around at the Birmingham Hippodrome. So that was it, I was I've got the bug then.

[7:01] Marc Tumminelli: And obviously, then your parents knew like she is good, like she has it.

[7:05] Linzi Hateley: Well, yeah, I mean, they thought I was good, but they didn't really know anything about, you know, really, you know, whether I was that good or not. So it was really it was after that that I was sort of going, I need to be somewhere where I can train and get better at this, and we sort of, you know, had long hard talks about it, but ended up when I was only 14, which I look back now and think I can't believe I did it, but I went on auditioned for a theatre school down in London because, you know, they did take children in theatre schools then. And so I auditioned for a couple of schools, one of which I didn't get into. I think it might have been the ballet; I didn't look good in the ballet tights.

But then I auditioned for a theatre school called Italia Conti, which back in the 80s was sort of one of the more popular sort of theatre schools, particularly for children. And I auditioned. I had to do a song, so I chose to do "Bohemian Rhapsody," as most 14-year-olds would, as you would. But I had I couldn't do the whole version because it was too long. Like 14 minutes long, yeah. So I had to do a spliced version of it. And I remember doing it, splicing it with my own tape recorder. I did the first section and the last section, and I think probably just on doing that alone, they thought, well, Christ, we've got to give this kid a chance, just having the confidence to have a go at a Freddie Mercury number.

So I went, yeah, so I went to Italia Conti at the age of 14 and stayed with a family in the week and went home every weekend to my parents, which again, I look at it now and I think I can't believe I did it, but I did, and did that for three years. They have an agency attached to the school, but I never really got anything because I was kind of, you know, I was maturing as a teenager, and I was kind of, you know, there were some very beautiful children at that school, and I sort of wasn't one of them. I kind of fit I was the sort of quirky kid, a bit chubby, but I sang really well for a youngster, you know. I just had this sort of, you know, really quite big, powerful voice. And the audition came in for the musical Carrie, and they were looking for a teenager or someone who looked like a teenager, quirky teenager, with a big voice.

[9:39] Marc Tumminelli: And funnily enough, I got the call to the agencies. Did you know about Carrie going into that? Had you seen the movie, had you read the book? What did you know about Carrie?

[9:50] Linzi Hateley: I had seen the movie. I hadn't seen I hadn't read the book at that point, but I'd seen the movie, which I thought was brilliant. I mean, just sort of thought it was a great horror movie, classic. Sissy Spacek was wonderful in it. And yeah, it was just, you know, a classic horror movie. Didn't really think too much about, oh, this is a weird thing to turn into a musical because I just didn't really think, to be honest. I was a 16-year-old at by this point, and it was sort of my first audition for a proper musical. So I mean, I was just delighted to be seen for something. I didn't realize it was for the part of Carrie. I just was asked to go along to the London Palladium, which that in itself was like a dream come true for me, you know, to stand on the London Palladium stage.

I felt like I'd died and gone to heaven. That was like the top already, you know, like it didn't matter what came out of it. That was it, you know. I mean, I was just thrilled to even be standing on the London Palladium, and not only that, to be then staring at Debbie Allen. I was just like this.

[10:59] Linzi Hateley: So you knew Debbie from Fame, I'm assuming.

[11:01] Linzi Hateley: And so I grew up with the album, you know, listening to "Kids from Fame," you know, watching Gene Anthony Ray, and yeah, you know, I mean, so that whole situation was completely mind-blowing for me that suddenly I'm in the same room as, you know, these people I've been watching on the telly for a few years and dancing in my living room to their album, you know, it's sort of incredible.

[11:23] Marc Tumminelli: During that audition, when did it start feeling like, oh, these people are really interested in me? When did you start to feel that?

[11:30] Linzi Hateley: It was an odd one, really, because I sort of they said, you know, come in your dance gear. Well, me and my dance gear. Well, it wasn't the best look to be fair. And I stood on the stage with all these phenomenal looking dancers around me, you know, and it really, I mean, in hindsight, it was the cream with the West End, you know, all the best dancers were all on the stage with me. I couldn't really quite understand why they were all kind of six foot and I was five foot, nothing. It was a weird one, but I went with it. I didn't really, like I said, I didn't think too hard about it, and I kept up with them, you know. I sort of I loved to dance, always had loved to dance, but I was never gonna be, I didn't look like a dancer, so I was never gonna be a dancer.

But they did a routine to Michael Jackson's "Bad," and I remember it blasting out over the London Palladium sound system, and you know, it was just I was just living the dream, I really was. So I did that, and then Debbie Allen asked me to do a little bit of running around the stage by myself in a little bit of, you know, sort of quirky little dancing, and I thought, oh, I don't know why they're singling me out particularly, but I'll go with it. So I did a bit of that, and then they said to, right, we're gonna hear people sing now. But that was in a different room, and I was taken into a different room, everyone went in one at a time, and they asked me to sing a song, and I sang on my own from Les Misérables.

[12:43] Marc Tumminelli: Excellent choice. We'll come back to you.

[12:59] Linzi Hateley: It was basically it was the song that the go-to song for me at that moment in time because Les Misérables had only recently opened, and you know, Frances Ruffelle became a very instant sort of iconic character in that part, and her sound was quite unique, and you know, I just sort of thought that's the song I'd like to sing, so gave that a go. And that was it, and they said thanks very much, and off I went. And I sort of thought, well, I think that might have gone okay, but I didn't know, I just knew that I had an amazing experience, you know, it was just amazing. The next day I went into school, I was back in at the theatre school, and I got a call to the agency saying they want to see you again today, you know, literally, they want to see you today, and they want you to go back and do pretty much the same sort of thing. So I went back to the Palladium again.

[14:00] Linzi Hateley: Thank you. And I well, the one thing that I did do was I thought I'm 16. There's no way they're going to employ me if I don't make myself look as old as possible. So bearing in mind it was the 80s, terrible time for fashion. And I had lots of 80s hair.

[14:23] Linzi Hateley: My hair was thick anyway, so I kind of even went further with it, slapped on loads of makeup so that to try and make myself look as old as I can, and um did a little bit of dancing again, and I said, right, we really want to concentrate on the singing. Can we um have some time with you? And all the creative team were there. Um sang on my own again, and and then uh Dean Pitchford um who is lovely who wrote the the lyrics for Carrie, he took me to one side, and and he just sort of said, you know, how would you feel about um taking off all your makeup and just calming your hair down a little bit, and you know, and I was just like, um, okay. So I sort of went out and took all my makeup off, conscious of my spotty face and everything else as a teenager.

Um went back in, and then they got me to learn um the beginning of the title song of Carrie, which um I don't know if you know it or not, but it's quite a it is a I know it. Yeah, okay. So it's so it's a great sort of dynamic start to a um to a number, which again is a very, very long, long piece. Um, but um I as soon as I sort of heard it, I thought, you know, and I can't read music, never have, probably never will now too old and ugly to care. But um uh at the time, you know, I learned I learned quickly, and so therefore, you know, I sort of bashed out this ain't anybody ever get it right, Carrie, and all that. Um, and and sang that for them, and and and sort of, and that was it. And I I mean I I went back and I sort of I felt like it had gone well.

I you know, when you just feel as though something in the room has kind of gone, I I I felt that they were excited by what they were seeing, but I you know I wouldn't want to ever presume or get over excited. Um so uh that was that, and then the next day I got a call to the agency, and it happened to be my 17th birthday, and I got called up to the agency, I walked in, and and they said, Oh, you know, we've got a birthday card for you. And I said, Oh, that's that's really nice. And they didn't mention anything about Carrie at all. So I thought, yeah, maybe that's it. And then I opened up the card and it said, Happy birthday, Carrie, and that's how I found out that I'd got the job.

[16:39] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my god, is that the greatest story ever?

[16:41] Linzi Hateley: Yes, it's amazing. Uh, how did your parents react to this this huge moment?

[16:48] Linzi Hateley: Well, you know, it was one of those things that um the initial excitement was just incredible. It was just like, oh my god, I can't believe this. Um that I was going to be working in a Royal Shakespeare Company production, bearing in mind that Le Miz had just done so well for the RSC. So there was all that, and also just the fact that you know I was a you know a young teenager who suddenly was being given you know the most wonderful stepping stone, a wonderful opportunity to um to to make my sort of proper theatre debut. Um but then of course the reality kicks in at actually the nature of the part, and um you know, they're they're very protective parents, you know, they're they're very down to earth and very um very caring parents, and I you know I I feel blessed that I've always had such wonderful support from them.

So it the next question was how are they going to do this? You know, how is this going to be uh the right thing for you to do, Lynn's? I was very self-conscious, I and still am actually, and I've always been quite a self-conscious person, and and therefore um it we were worried about how it was going to be portrayed. But fortunately, Terry Hands, the director, um, had a you know arranged to have a meeting with myself and my parents, uh and he took us out for for lunch. Um, we went to a posh restaurant that none of us knew which bit of cutlery to use because we were just so like from the legs and not a clue. We're all waiting for it. You know, when you're waiting for the person to do, oh, it's that one, right?

So I'll use that one first. I nearly drank out of the finger bowl, but I didn't, but nearly did. Um it was very stressful afternoon, but he did, you know, reassure us that you know, all the you know, intricate shower scenes and stuff like that, you know, the the the moments of um uh you know sort of awkwardness would be dealt with so that I would never have to show myself at all. So um that as soon as we had that kind of guarantee that he was going to protect me and not you know expose me in any way like that. Um it was it was too good a an opportunity not to jump on the ride, really.

[19:08] Linzi Hateley: And also at the time you were the youngest person to ever star in an RSC show, which is like a very big deal. I think you still might be, I don't know.

[19:15] Marc Tumminelli: No, because they had Matilda.

[19:17] Linzi Hateley: Oh, all right, fine. I know, I know. But I did, but I did dine out on it for years ago. You do know I am the RSC's youngest ever leading lady. Um speaking of Terry Hands, how was he with you?

[19:29] Linzi Hateley: You know, he has come under fire as being, you know, the problem. Or uh, but you know, there I've heard so many different kinds of things about working with him. What was your ultimate experience of building this character with him?

[19:42] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, I I it's a tricky one, isn't it? I think that there's two there's two factors. One, um, I always think it's difficult to talk about someone who now isn't here to to defend themselves. Um, I know that Terry probably did try um to do that when he when he was around, but um I I for me um Terry was um a very charming man who um who did look out for me. He would he he did try to protect me, and I think that um where he was at his most comfortable without a doubt was um anything to do with the mother and daughter scenes, anything that to do with the drama, um he came into his own. Um, and so therefore I probably myself and either Barbara in Stratford or Betty in New York, um spent the most time with him successfully, I would say.

Um I think as a musical theatre director, it wasn't his bag, and I think that that became very apparent. Um, and probably to to other people that they were far more experienced than me. What you have to remember is that had I been working with Terry now, my whole take on it would all be a very different thing. But as a child, and I really was a quite a naive one at that. Um I just um I just I felt that he'd got my back. I felt that he he he gave me time and attention that that wasn't really coming from any other area. I think he cared deeply about it. I just think that he was misguided, he misjudged what it was. And I think fundamentally, I mean I hate to say it, but I think it should have been directed by an American.

You know, it's a very American piece. And and and particularly back in those days, I mean, you know, we we I think we've kind of got a lot closer, actually, as the years have gone by with musical theatre, and certainly as as you know, like uh an English audience, for example, back in those days, you know, we were very reserved, but we have become a lot more, you know, Americanized as we've gone along, or we whoop and cheer and you know make noise like the like the rest of you now. But it it was back back in that at that time, I think there were so many things to be commended about it because it was very experimental and it very extreme, and I do believe that because it was so extreme, um, are all the reasons why it didn't work, however, are all the reasons why we still talk about it now.

And I think that had it not, you know, had it not been, it would have just been forgotten about, you know, there were some fantastic things in it and there were some dreadful things in it, but uh on the whole it had massive potential and and it was done with absolute gusto in in whichever you know it was it was in every direction every direction was so full on that it's made it the talking point that it still is. I mean, there are shows that ran for years that no one talks about anymore, but here we are still talking about this iconic experience.

[22:48] Marc Tumminelli: Tell me about Barbara Cook. Did you know who she was going into it? Had you been listening to the music man your life?

[22:55] Linzi Hateley: Oh, I feel I mean, you know, again, I feel dreadful because I didn't know who Barbara Cook was. I didn't know who she was. And so, but you know, in some ways, that was probably a blessing because I then I went in, you know, not intimidated. I I was, you know, I was I don't know, you know, you you are brave when you're young, aren't you? You just you just do things, and and I just threw myself into everything. And um, and she was gorgeous, you know. I mean, she was she was kind, she was warm to me, she was um she was beautiful, you know, she was a beautiful woman, and um, you know, right up until you know, she she passed, we kept in touch, and uh I spoke to her yeah, I spoke to her, you know, not too long before she she passed away. And um, you know, I you know, she she was part of the beginning for me. So, you know, she she both her and Betty for totally different reasons, uh will always be very close to my heart.

[23:57] Linzi Hateley: You know, I feel like I've read a lot about this very long rehearsal process that you had with, and especially you and Barbara being together. Did you feel very isolated from the rest of the show? Did you feel like you had you know people that you could hang out with uh during rehearsals?

[24:14] Linzi Hateley: No, no, I I was completely isolated. Um, I think uh uh maybe it was a choice thing, maybe they sort of thought that that was a good way of uh, you know, always making me feel as though I couldn't really fit in with the rest of them. Um but the reality was that as lovely as everybody was, actually, I couldn't fit in because uh the age gap, you know, even like I mean, I would imagine probably the the the youngest of the ensemble were probably 21, 22, but there's a big difference between being 21, 22 and being 17, and particularly by the time you get to New York, where they can all go out and have a good time, and I'm not even allowed to drink. You know, it's a massive void, and and and it wasn't that anyone was um unpleasant to me, you know, everyone was always nice when when they saw me, but I uh but no one got to know me, you know.

They didn't really. I mean, I think the only people that did, I would say, is Paul Gingel, who played Tommy Ross. Um, you know, he sort of took me under his wing a little bit, and also um one of the the um the dancers in the show, uh Kenny Linden, who actually only lives 20 minutes away from me, and we've kept in touch ever since. Um and he was kind of um he was you know just one of the ensemble that I didn't I think he felt as if he wasn't one of the cool ones, he was one of the less cool dancers, and therefore you probably wanted to be my friend because no one else would. Yeah, I mean I'm exaggerating, but um, it was just a very separated um rehearsal process, and then you know, uh once performance started, you know, it wasn't yeah, they were very separated.

[25:51] Linzi Hateley: So when the show opened at Stratford, the reviews obviously were a little bit all over the place, but your reviews were really amazing. I mean, so many other reviews call you out as being the star and the greatest thing about the production. Were you aware of any of that, or were you trying to stay in your lane?

[26:07] Linzi Hateley: Uh you know what? I probably wasn't really aware of it. I mean, I uh the I I didn't read reviews, um, I don't really know why, I just didn't, but I I knew that they were mixed. Um, but I also knew that it broken box office records for the RSC, and that the audiences were sort of standing up, which seemed to me, again, having not experienced any uh form of um uh you know audience reaction before, it it just seemed like well, must be doing something right, you know. It did it, you know, they're they're enjoying this, and uh and people actually were they I mean, you know, I'm sure that there was you know, not necessarily always for the right reasons, but they came out having had a kind of very unique experience, and um yeah, it was yeah, it was weird really.

[26:57] Marc Tumminelli: Did you always know the show was going to Broadway with you, or did you just think it was in pieces when you got the original offer?

[27:06] Linzi Hateley: That's a really interesting question. But I I think I certainly think I'd been down dangled the carrot that it was going to be Stratford and New York. Um I mean they were separate contracts, so I'm sure had I not come up with the goods, then they might have gone actually we'll get rid of her because she's no good and and you know go elsewhere. But I I think it was always it was always told from the off that the idea was that it was going to be England, New York.

[27:34] Marc Tumminelli: When did you find out that uh Barbara was leaving the show?

[27:39] Linzi Hateley: Um can't remember exactly, but I know that it became it became very apparent, certainly by the time we got to Stratford that she wasn't happy. Um which I found quite hard in in a sense, um, because one I loved her, and two, I didn't understand. I didn't understand how you know. Now I understand she'd got everything to lose, and and and you know, that this was a woman of you know great experience and um and reputation, and for her to go back to New York, she'd got to go back with something that was going to be the right thing for her, and it wasn't. You know, it not only wasn't because she didn't believe in it, um, but actually it didn't fit, you know, it it didn't fit, and it it and that became even more apparent when Betty Buckley did it in New York because you know that woman that woman was born to play that part, you know.

It was just like, oh my god, and it took everything to a different level, and it took me to a different level because I was, you know, that I had this force to be reckoned with, and I had to try and you know bring myself up to to compete with it.

[28:51] Linzi Hateley: Um, it was different with Barbara, it was more her harmonious and more sort of nurturing, you know. It was just, you know, she was more, her instincts are more motherly. Um, and you know, she was significantly older. I mean, just physically, it was a different game, I'm sure for her throwing you into a hole in the stage. Yeah, I mean, it was a lot more me sort of doing the throw-in or pretending like she's done it rather than Betty that, you know, I'd come back black and blue every night thinking, I'm going to die on this show.

[29:26] Marc Tumminelli: Tell me about Broadway. So now we're close at Stratford, you come to New York. Had you ever even been to New York before?

[29:33] Linzi Hateley: Nope.

[29:34] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my god. Where did they, did they get you an apartment? I need to know about those first two days of being essentially 17 years old coming to star in this new Broadway musical at the Virginia Theatre on Broadway. I can't even imagine what a mind game that is.

[29:50] Linzi Hateley: Well, again, like I say, in some respects, it's probably a blessing that I was so naive, so I didn't overthink it. Um, they put me in an apartment in 75th and Central Park West.

[30:03] Marc Tumminelli: Nice.

[30:04] Linzi Hateley: Apparently it was a, you know, meant to be a very nice area. I mean, um, I think it was. Um, I was living upstairs, and one of the coolest things about it was that um, I passed John Malkovich on the stairwell, and I was just like, oh my god, he's living in the same apartment block as me. I think he was filming something and he was there, which was really cool. Um, but I was, I know it sounds awful really, um, but I was disappointed because I wanted like a really American sort of, you know, uh funky pads, you know, sort of totally nothing like what I would live in at home. And instead I got something where I think they're trying to do like a home from homes thing, so it was all very sort of quaint and British, and I was just like, oh god, you know, this isn't what I have for no, and actually, had it ran, I was definitely gonna move from there because there was no way I'd have stayed in that. It was just sort of, it wasn't me at all. I wanted something sort of funky and fun.

[30:58] Marc Tumminelli: Did it feel daunting to look at this big mountain that was in front of you? I mean, the West End is obviously a big deal, and Stratford is a huge deal, but you know, Broadway is the, I mean, it's such an American thing to be a part of, and if it had so much attention and there's so much money involved, it just feels like some of that you had to have taken on in some way.

[31:21] Linzi Hateley: I, you know, honestly, I now I would be beside myself, you know, I'd be thinking, you know, I would overthink everything. Um, but back then, you know, I was so, so naive, honestly, so naive, that I was just, I was just so excited at the opportunity. I genuinely, um, I was scared about being away from home, you know, because I, like I say, I have a close-knit family and I didn't want to be away from them. I mean, I do remember the night before I left for New York and crying in my mum and dad's kitchen like a baby, just like how am I gonna cope and how am I going to do this? But it wasn't not, it wasn't about crying because I was going to be starring in a Broadway show. It was actually that I wasn't gonna have my mum and dad there to pick me up, you know.

It was, it was that more, that was more daunting for me being away from my comfort zone than it was the actual work ahead of me. Um, had I have known what I was in for, I might have, um, you know, thought differently. But I was just, you know, I was just so excited, so excited at the prospect of it all and the opportunity to discover it even more because, you know, I'd only tapped the surface in Stratford and I was only four weeks, right? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, you know, it felt like something that had some, I was learning on the job, everything that I was doing. I was like a sponge. I was just, you know, every single day I was learning something new. Um, and, and you know, learning things that actually, I mean, I look back on now and I think actually that, you know, that wasn't dealt with well.

But you know, again, at the time you just sort of, I was just on the ride and I went with it. So, um, I was daunted by what New York would hold for me. And certainly when I got there, I was pretty daunted by, uh, the speed of it, the, um, it felt quite scary, you know, compared to London at the same time back in '88. New York felt like quite a scary, uh, dirty, you know, dirty sort of city that was, you know, quite intimidating for little kid from Birmingham. Um, but, uh, you know, and, uh, yeah, just, just it would take me a while to adjust to that sort of, uh, speed, I think.

[33:52] Marc Tumminelli: Were there other things you were doing while you were rehearsing? Were you seeing Broadway shows at night? Were you like taking in any of New York?

[34:00] Linzi Hateley: I did, um, I did go and see a few shows. Uh, I can't really remember whether I saw them, um, while we were rehearsing or after we closed. I can't remember the actual, you know, um, but I certainly did see a couple of shows while I was, while I was still there. I mean, the rehearsal process seemed to go on forever in New York, and it was very intense because obviously then I, um, met Betty, and that's when our journey began, and that was a very different, um, ball game altogether and very intense, very intense.

[34:35] Marc Tumminelli: Tell me about rehearsing with her. What was she giving you that was helping you? What kind of things were going on in that rehearsal room with her?

[34:43] Linzi Hateley: Um, I think first of all, it was, um, it was obvious that she was intense and passionate about it. You know, she wanted this to be something, um, uh, you know, just she wanted to push the boundaries. She wanted to turn this into something that people had never seen before. She wanted to break new ground. Um, you know, Betty is a phenomenal actress, and she's very, um, raw, and, uh, vulnerable, actually, very vulnerable. And, um, there were times actually, it was quite interesting because there were times when our roles had almost reversed, where she would almost become the child, and I felt like the adult. You know, we had this sort of strange, um, relationship that, um, I think she loved the fact that I trusted her completely, and I don't think she, you know, having spoken to her quite a lot since about it.

You know, she speaks so highly of me. It's so, you know, it means so much to me. And I think it was because for her, she felt it was the first time that she'd actually been with another actor who was actually prepared to trust that the choices she's gonna make are because she really thinks it's for the, you know, for the right reasons. Um, and I think I trusted her because I was a child and I didn't want to, um, rock the boat with Betty Buckley. Certainly didn't want to rock the boat with Betty Buckley, and certainly didn't feel that I was in, uh, any way, shape or form the person that knew better. You know, I didn't. I, you know, this was a woman who, you know, she'd won Tony Awards, she, you know, she was phenomenal, you know, she's a massive star.

And, and you know, I just, I, whatever she went with, I went, I'll go with it. And there were times when, uh, we'd do things and she'd kind of go, nah, don't believe it, don't believe it. And I'd be like, oh my god, she doesn't believe I'm doing, um, but rather than sort of hiding in the corner and sort of I, I suppose now I might do, I might go and weep somewhere and go, oh God, they hate me. Whereas back then, again, you know, sort of the innocence of youth, and you know, you've got thicker skin then. I just thought, well, sod this, you, you're really gonna believe me. And so she just, she did it on purpose. She tried to, you know, sort of push me and push me as much as she could, and it made for dynamite, it really made for dynamite. You know, if there's one thing that I know I can always be proud of, is the work that me and Betty achieved in New York. It was, it was groundbreaking stuff, it really was.

[37:23] Marc Tumminelli: Tell me about the audience reaction, because people are still talking about it, and you know, there's that joke. If as many people said they saw Carrie that actually saw Carrie, the show would still be running.

[37:33] Linzi Hateley: Oh my god. People looked to be like, I was at the first for preview.

[37:36] Marc Tumminelli: Oh, I know, I know. But the audience reaction was so varied. What were you feeling in those first few previews of how is this going?

[37:46] Linzi Hateley: Well, I mean, again, what you have to bear in mind is that the scenes that I was involved in, this sounds so egotistic, and I don't mean it to, but the scenes that myself or myself and Betty were in were getting a phenomenal response. And so the experience that we were having was very different to the high school kids that were kind of like killing pigs and stuff like that, that were having people laughing and screaming and sort of thinking, what the hell's going on? I mean, it's a few different musicals. It was, it was literally like, you know, two shows squashed together. Um, but you know, it was, it was a shock, it was a shock just for me, um, how vocal an American audience was because, like I say, on my only other experience was in Stratford upon Avon, where everyone was very sort of English and reserved and sat back and, you know, enjoyed it at the end, but there wasn't any, you know, sort of vocal stuff going on, and so right from the off, even, you know, as soon as the um orchestra kicks off, you hear it be going, Wow!

I'm thinking, oh my god, is this good? Is this bad? Well, what is this? You know, it was just a different experience altogether. Um, I mean, I did the title song of Carrie, which, um, I think it lasts about six or seven minutes. It's, you know, it's epic. It took me a long time to build up to learn how to sing that song, particularly as my voice hadn't even really, um, you know, fully matured. Um, and I, you know, I do remember doing that for the first time in New York, and, uh, you know, I was just taken back by the response to it. You know, it was just like I couldn't carry on because it was such a, you know, an overwhelming response, and I'm sort of thinking, and my, and again, I don't know when you meant to sort of stop an audience doing something like that.

As a kid, I'm thinking, well, how, what do I do? Sorry, stop now. Oh, what do I do? I'm standing in my crucifix thinking what's gonna happen. Eventually, the MD went, okay, we'll carry on with the, we need to keep going.

[39:46] Linzi Hateley: It's carrying that word sounding so sweet. Thousands of voices forever repeating, Harry, Carrie, Carrie. I am the sound of the name, I'm Carrie, I am a star on Ellis Wander, and no one will frame my name, someone knows.

[40:39] Marc Tumminelli: I mean, that doesn't happen a lot on Broadway, so it's amazing that you have experienced like the height of what that feeling is to have an American audience screaming at you.

[40:50] Linzi Hateley: So extreme, so extreme. And the funny thing was, but Betty always tells that story because you go like, I've got to follow this. So obviously it was unclear like where this was going as far as is this gonna be a hit? Are we gonna run? Are we, so tell me about opening and then what transpired following it?

[41:13] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, well, I mean, it felt a bit culty, you know, that's how it felt. It felt like you're part of some sort of weird cult show that people were gonna get so obsessed with because it was so extreme, and because the reaction to it was so extreme that you sort of felt that if it was gonna run, it was gonna become this sort of, uh, I'm not gonna say rocky horror, but you, but that sort of, you know, crazy mad fans that would just, you know, be obsessed by it. Um, which actually in hindsight kind of has become, you know, people are obsessed with it, they love it, but almost because they couldn't see it rather than, you know, the sort of, um, because they did. Um, but we, um, the opening night, uh, what do I remember about the opening night?

Ridiculous amounts of flowers in a tiny little dressing room. Um, the, you know, it was a quite compromised theatre for that show. Uh, particularly bearing in mind that, you know, by the end of the show, I mean, I'm completely covered in blood, and quite a few others of us are also covered in it because I've splattered it around all over the place. So, you know, I remember trailing up to the um, the next floor where there was one shower that I think the load of us had to sort of, you know, share. Um, there's nothing glamorous about it, but the opening night, um, was at Stringfellows, which again didn't really mean a lot to me at the time. But I went, my mum and dad had arrived, my brother had arrived, so my brother and my mum and dad, um, were there. I met Mohammed Ali.

[42:42] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my gosh.

[42:44] Linzi Hateley: At your opening night, there's Mohammed Ali. And I met Stephen King, who, um, uh, after the opening night, they asked, um, to see, uh, he'd gone to see, uh, Betty, and they d, they called me down and said, you know, Stephen King would like to meet you. So I went down to Betty's room and, um, he very kindly, he probably, I don't know whether he meant it or not, but he said something along the lines of, um, you played Carrie just how I imagined her, how I wrote it.

[43:11] Linzi Hateley: So that was a nice thing to have.

[43:14] Linzi Hateley: Um that's as good as it gets, right? Well, you know, I'll dine out on it, you know, even if it's not true. I mean, I'll go with it. Um and then yes, it was one of those classic sort of um, it's a bit like um I saw the prom recently, you know, the Netflix thing, and there's that whole sort of you know, opening night of a Broadway show, and then the then the reviews come out disappear. Um, and it was a bit like that, you know, sort of everyone was sort of oh, this is great, and then the next minute, oh, the reviews have come out, and then there was a very sort of shifty move, and yeah, people crept away.

[43:47] Marc Tumminelli: So, when did you find out about the closing notice?

[43:50] Linzi Hateley: Um, well, that was particularly um harsh. Um, because I I I think I mean someone else who would know the actual days and times better than me, but I think our last performance was possibly on a Sunday. I think that we did a Sunday matinee.

[44:07] Linzi Hateley: Sunday matinee. And um I was told about half an hour before I went on to do the Saturday night show that we were coming off the next day.

[44:18] Marc Tumminelli: Wow.

[44:20] Linzi Hateley: Um, that has to feel like like trauma. I mean, this experience of dreadful. You know, here's this thing, and we're pulling it away from you, just as you're starting to get your feet, and you're just starting to understand how New York works and Broadway. And uh, I'm sure that was a really hard thing to take on.

[44:37] Linzi Hateley: It was. It was it was the the the moment I grew up. Um, and the closest I could have ever felt to carry really, because it was a bit like having the blood thrown all over me. You know, it was it was it was heartbreaking, it was it was devastating and um cruel. It was very cruel. Um it was it was done uh without any care or thought really, and um and I and I think that it did stay with me.

[45:04] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, yeah.

[45:06] Linzi Hateley: Yeah. Do you know what? I I wouldn't even think like that. I think like that now because I think, yeah, the mortgage to pay and the the child to feed and whatever, but you know, it it was more than that. It was actually it was I think it was it was just just very devastating and and um and it's hard when you're playing Carrie, you know, you're you're the you're playing the title part, and um and that happens, and it's very hard to get your head around when actually love it or hate it, the audiences will go and bonkers for it.

[45:36] Linzi Hateley: You know, I couldn't I couldn't understand it. I couldn't, I couldn't understand how you know no one was giving it longer, it just to you know to settle and see what it could be it just it didn't make sense and and actually that bit still doesn't really make sense I mean it makes sense because you hear what goes on you know people panicking quickly and producers pulling money and people running away very quickly but actually the reality is they should have hung in there a bit longer you know they they should have done because I think it would have um it would have found an audience it would be yeah yeah yeah well and certainly got a cast album out of it which I know the most devastating thing to the whole you know to to not have had not been able to capture um I know it sounds selfish and it's all personally about me but I the one thing I'm so sad is that there's not anything captured apart from bootleg recordings and dodgy videos of of of me and Betty because I would love to have been able to play that to my daughter and just go you know what and actually and also because you know I had a good I would say a good 10 years of my career after that where people would go oh you were Carrie oh what was it like and I think did you see it did you hear it did you did you because actually the stuff that that we did was bloody brilliant you know it really was it's it really really was thrilling and and I'm proud of it.

[45:39] Linzi Hateley: I'm proud of it and I wasn't allowed to be I wasn't allowed I had to it was easier to not talk about it and it was easier to um not discuss it than than to get to open up the wounds and feel uh you know upset by what people were saying.

[47:14] Marc Tumminelli: Well it feels universally that the um the American audience went crazy for getting those bootlegs and trading those videos like in the dark web of all of it you know it just felt like it was such a the especially the you and Betty stuff I mean that is that is what people wanted to grab on to and desperately wanted to have as a cast album and things like that so I'm sure it is it is kind of turned into something so beyond because it wasn't recorded because it didn't run.

[47:45] Linzi Hateley: Absolutely absolutely how long before Cameron McIntosh called you about Le Miz after that's I mean that's the that's the flip side of this insane business.

[47:57] Linzi Hateley: Well Cameron was at the only night he was at the only night of Carrie he himself and Andrew Lloyd Webber um and uh when I got back from New York which I've I left pretty sharpish I have to say I I it's sad really because I love New York and I've been back uh you know a few times since and you know I love it um but I just wanted to get out I I just needed to be home I needed to see my friends and just have a sense of normality again um and and in some ways I regret it because I you know again you sort of wonder had I sort of been brave enough to stay put maybe you know I differ things could have uh have maybe come my way but I just I didn't want to you know, I I just wanted to it wasn't I didn't feel good I felt hurt and I wanted to remove myself as as quickly as I could so um yeah got on a plane quite quick and and went back uh to London and I think I know that I had there were two calls that came in um from my agent, and one was from Terry Hans.

[49:09] Linzi Hateley: And he um said, Look, this has been hard, but we are doing uh the Wizard of Oz for the RSE for Christmas. I'd love you to come and do Dorothy. Um and then the next day I got a call saying Cameron Macintosh wants you to do the um they're doing a uh sort of video, which would be a video at the time of the making of Le Miz, and he'd like you to do Eponine, sing the song of Eponine.

[49:40] Linzi Hateley: So I wasn't in the show, um, but they wanted me to record the song and put the costume on and pretend like I was in the show. And my heart and by heart, you know, back in back then, all I'd before Carrie, or you know, I was on my own, on my own. I wanted to be Francis Rafael, you know, that was it. Um, and so I just you know, I I had to do that.

[50:00] Linzi Hateley: I had to do that. So I went and I recorded that and pretended I was you know, I knew what I was doing. They stuck the hat on and off I went and sang on my own. Um, which again I'm quite glad about now because it's one of those things that's you know recorded, and um, and I can show my daughter and uh look back on at me at uh I was still 17, I was still 17 when I did it, still got lots of big hair.

[50:28] Linzi Hateley: Um so yeah, uh did that, and then on the back of that, Cameron then said, Okay, we'd like you to play the part.

[50:37] Marc Tumminelli: Oh, how thrilling to be part of Lamez in the like the height of its lemishness, you know, like it's it really was, it really was.

[50:45] Linzi Hateley: I mean, it was, you know, epic orchestra, epic theatre, epic production, um, wonderful cast, and I learned so, you know, I mean, I actually stayed with the show for two years. Um, and the reason being it was first I was earning some money, which I hadn't got, so it was great to earn some money. Um, and also I was just learning my craft, you know, learning how to to maintain eight shows a week and learn how the things you can't do and the things you can do, and um it was it was a fantastic um learning curve for me, and and I I really I really enjoyed that.

[51:06] Linzi Hateley: It was it was great. Can you tell the scream story? Because it's just so it's a great story.

[51:31] Linzi Hateley: You know, I hadn't really thought about it at the time, and it wasn't until I was doing my cabaret, and I was trying to think of stories, and um, and I'd gone back to Le Miz, um, I think it was about 20 something years later to do Madame Tanadio, which I don't know why I just thought it'd be good fun to be honest.

[51:31] Linzi Hateley: Um, I think it was a probably a little bit soon because actually I you know, once I was there, I sort of realised actually I'm I'm sort of itching to do more, and I felt I spent I spent more time putting on makeup than I did actually on the stage, it was sort of but you know, I just thought it'd be great fun to do, and great fun to say that you played Ephanine all those years back, and then you know, um Adam T, great fun.

[52:11] Linzi Hateley: Um so I went back to do Madam T and we were in the uh dress rehearsal before the opening night, and I'm putting the teeth on and you know putting the lines on, and uh and I was listening to the Tanoy, and my ear just kept being drawn to all the Echanine stuff, and it was it was the bit where um uh she runs to the gate and goes, I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna warn him ear, and runs to the gate and does this scream, and I heard this scream and I thought, God, that's a bloody good scream.

[52:39] Linzi Hateley: Um, and uh years before when I'd done um Blame Is, I'd I'd so I'd suggested because it just seemed bonkers to me to do this screaming every night, you're gonna go, why don't we record it? You know, let's record me screaming, and then you know, press the button and off I go, and you don't see my face anyway. They'll know, you know, won't know any different.

[52:57] Linzi Hateley: So we record the discream, and anyway, all these years later, I went to the sound guys and I said, If you don't mind me asking, do they still record the eponine scream? Because you know, it's such a strong scream, and they said, Well, actually, we're still using yours.

[53:12] Linzi Hateley: So I'd been screaming at Lamez for 25 years or whatever.

[53:16] Marc Tumminelli: Oh, I love that.

[53:17] Linzi Hateley: Um, and you're also part of the lame is movie as well, right?

[53:20] Linzi Hateley: You're one of the briefly, briefly.

[53:23] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[53:23] Linzi Hateley: Um, they should have did they use your scream in the movie too?

[53:26] Linzi Hateley: No, they should have done it, shouldn't they? They should have they should have just screamed everywhere. They should just keep using it.

[53:31] Marc Tumminelli: When did uh Betty Buckley invite you back to New York to do that Carnegie Hall concert where you got to do this all this carry stuff?

[53:39] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, um just trying to sort of put the dates together because it was before my daughter, so I reckon it was about 98, something like that.

[53:50] Linzi Hateley: Something like that, 97, 98. We're gonna say a decade after Carrie. You're back in New York at Carnegie Hall on stage doing having this moment and watching you do that and watching the bow after that is so astounding because you kind of can see that you are releasing something.

[54:08] Linzi Hateley: It's it's a magical thing to watch. Tell me about that performance.

[54:12] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, I mean, it it was it was very cathartic, actually. It was it was quite a you know healing process in a sense. I mean, when when I got the call from Betty saying, Look, I'm doing this amazing concert and I want you to be my special guest. Um, will you come over? I was like, let me think about it.

[54:28] Linzi Hateley: Um so yeah, I went over like a shot. Um and uh and and had a great week there, actually. I I brought my friend over with me, and and the pair of us just had a great time.

[54:39] Linzi Hateley: And he ended up here at the time he was dressing someone, um, I think he might have been dressing, I don't know, someone on sunset. Um, but he came over and ended up dressing Betty in her quick changes on stage as well.

[54:51] Linzi Hateley: So it was a great week for the both of us because he was like, Oh my god, and in fact, he was more suppressed than I was, which is funny. Um but uh um yeah, we we sort of rehearsed, but not a lot.

[55:03] Linzi Hateley: Um you know, we sort of talked about it a little bit, but not a huge amount, and you know, time was of the essence, and uh there was a lot of cost involved, so it was a case of you know, we had the orchestra one day and we rehearsed with them, and then the next day it was you know, rehearse on stage, let's do it, boom.

[55:19] Linzi Hateley: So it was all very, very um, you know, very thrown together, actually. Certainly that bit. I think you know, Betty obviously had more time with her stuff, but you know, for our bits, it was you know, we need to sort of fly by the seat of our pants a bit here.

[55:32] Linzi Hateley: Um and so I did I did the title song first, which was wonderful, and the reception was so oh god, it was um it was so good for me.

[55:42] Linzi Hateley: It was so it was so good for me, honestly. It was just um yeah, one of those highlights in your life that you'll just try and bottle up and remember.

[55:51] Linzi Hateley: Um, yeah, it was beautiful. And then um, and then Betty came on and we did the you know, the the Eve was week scene, which you know, out of context is crazy in itself.

[56:01] Linzi Hateley: Um, and to try and do it with uh God knows how many piece orchestra that had never sort of heard them music before, it was all a little bit like oh, there we go, where we go.

[56:10] Linzi Hateley: Um but you know, we we got there in the end, it's sort of it it had a little moment at the beginning where we're all a little bit out, and I thought, oh, is this gonna sort of work?

[56:21] Linzi Hateley: But we pulled it back, and uh I I decided when she threw me that I'd hide under the piano, and that went down really well.

[56:28] Linzi Hateley: So I spent the rest of the time under this piano hiding. Um, but yeah, that you know, the audience loved it, and um there was a lot of people very appreciative, I think, of us doing it.

[56:40] Linzi Hateley: And uh it was it was yeah, just just again one of those those wonderful uh moments to be very grateful for and and and very cathartic.

[56:51] Marc Tumminelli: Well, you have had such a huge career in the West End. Martha and Sea Rick Garden, the narrator in Joseph, which got you an Olivier nomination, Roxy in Chicago, Mrs. Banks Mary Poppins, Nancy and Oliver, Donna and Mamma Mia. I mean, your career is huge, and you just kind of wrapped pre-COVID doing uh the Blood Brothers tour, which we were talking about earlier.

[57:10] Marc Tumminelli: Um, what do you want to do next? Like when the world is reopened, what can we see Lindsay Hitley doing? What do you want to do?

[57:17] Linzi Hateley: I don't know. I mean it's funny actually, isn't it? Because I think that this whole experience has kind of made us all um you know think about things a little bit and uh you know have a different perspective on stuff.

[57:28] Linzi Hateley: And I think probably you know, I'm 50 now, I turned 50 this last year.

[57:32] Linzi Hateley: Well you know, I think October last year I've lost the track, and I've been no, no, no idea what day it is anymore. Um, but um you know nothing nothing is as easy as it was, you know. As a performer, I think it gets harder. I think that you know, you um I always set my standards stupidly high, and I sometimes find it hard, or or I I beat myself up if I don't feel as if I can, you know get the the standard that I want. Um I think that all stems back to Carrie. I think you know there's that there's always that fear of uh failure, and so therefore it's kind of instilled in me this you know it could go wrong, and therefore I have to you know keep proving and uh and that's exhausting. So, in some respects it's been quite nice to just take a step back, and because I haven't been able to do what I do.

Um the flip side of that, um, it is what I do, and and it's it's what I've I've always done. And uh without it sounding naff, I think it's what I was born to do. You know, I there's not not much else that I'm particularly good at other than hopefully being a mom, which I'd has been you know my my biggest passion. Um so I I hope that you know that we I just hope we get theatre back. I'm looking forward to sitting in this in the stalls, never mind being on the stage itself. I just I long to to have escapism and to give people escapism, you know, it's it's it's it's a very precious thing, and I think that it's greatly missed, and I and I can't wait to you know indulge it again, really can't.

[59:01] Marc Tumminelli: Well, we can't wait for you to be back on stage. We have to talk about the albums really quickly, because your first three albums uh for the first time sooner or later, and true colours are available on iTunes and Spotify.

[59:14] Linzi Hateley: Thanks. And I guess our buddy Robbie Rossell.

[59:17] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, that happened.

[59:18] Linzi Hateley: Very much thanks to Robby, yes. I mean, I've I've you know so before the time. You're so great. Or do we have plans for maybe another album in the future?

[59:27] Linzi Hateley: Well, you never know. You never know. I mean, I actually to be fair, I would love to do one. I mean, I think that you know your voice changes over over the years, and I think that's uh you know, your your style and your experience and and all those things, you know, come into play, and um, while it's still working, while the old vouch is still doing something, it would be nice to um represent something as a mature lady. Um, so yes, it would be lovely. It'd be lovely to do another one, and um let's hope it's on the cards.

[59:55] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, well, I'm thrilled that those three are back, kind of circulating in the world, and that people get to hear your brilliant solo albums. And they're like they're huge tracks. There's like 20 songs on each album. It's like enjoy people. We have music for you for days. It's like it's so so wonderful. Um I need to know what you're obsessed with right now. What are you doing?

[1:00:16] Linzi Hateley: Oh god, okay. Well, um, I was obsessed with Bridgetton, but I've done Bridgeton now. I mean, that that was I was completely obsessed with that. But I I'm now onto this. Oh god, it's it's so awful. It's brilliant. You know, maybe it's a carry all over again. Um, it's um someone suggested that I watch um it's called um married at first sight, Australia. It's the Australian version. I don't know if there's an American version, but I don't think there's an English version yet. But Married at First Sight Australia, well, I mean, I can't stop watching it. Me and my husband, we're sitting there and we're absolutely hooked. It is so car crash TV, but it's a you it's obsessive. You just can't you keep watching.

[1:01:05] Marc Tumminelli: I will watch it. My obsess this week is your album True Colors. It is so it is so good. I have been listening to it kind of nonstop for the last couple weeks. And uh it's really you're so so talented, and I am so delighted to have you.

[1:01:19] Linzi Hateley: All right, let's do quick fire questions. Are you ready?

[1:01:22] Linzi Hateley: Oh god, oh god, no, no, I'm not ready. Go on.

[1:01:25] Marc Tumminelli: All right. Your favorite holiday.

[1:01:28] Linzi Hateley: Oh, Christmas.

[1:01:29] Marc Tumminelli: Okay. Do you have anything from Carrie in your home?

[1:01:34] Linzi Hateley: Um, yes, I have a pair of white shoes in the loft somewhere. And also, I have lots of um, this is really sad, but before I left, um, the company manager said, Look, do you want any of the front of house pictures? And I went, Yeah, okay. So somehow I had I came home in massive suitcases with some of the front of house pictures that are dusty again in my loft. But can you imagine there'd be some fan out there that would kill to that? If you're ever in need of a few thousand um just know that someone will buy them.

[1:02:11] Marc Tumminelli: I know. Um my god, if you can go back and do one performance of anything from your career, what would it be?

[1:02:17] Linzi Hateley: Oh, Roxy, every time.

[1:02:19] Marc Tumminelli: Oh god.

[1:02:19] Linzi Hateley: And you went back, you did Roxy Accusion.

[1:02:21] Linzi Hateley: I did it about three times actually, yeah. Um, I I just found it the most liberating. Um I just because it was so out of my comfort zone and so unexpected of me to do that, and I just I had a ball, and also um my daughter was quite young the first time I did it, and I it was the most um liberated I felt to be able to be a mum and to then be Roxy Hart at night. It was absolutely empowering, yeah.

[1:02:47] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my god. What is the strangest fan interaction you've ever had?

[1:02:51] Linzi Hateley: Um I'll tell you what did happen once, and it was actually a bit bit weird. Um, I got followed home.

[1:03:02] Marc Tumminelli: Oof.

[1:03:02] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, scary. I was at the London Palladium, which um I went full circle and went back to to do Joseph at the Palladium, which is a wonderful job. Um, and uh there was a lot of sort of yeah, quite obsessed fans, and I got I would drive. I used to drive home and I lived out out of London and I got in my car the one night, and this fan was in a car behind me, and they just followed me and followed me and followed me, and just kept following me. And I I was just like, Oh my god, I can't, I can't let them know where I live. So I ended up driving all over the place until I eventually I went around like a sort of a roundabout and I kept going round it until they realized that there was no way I was getting off this roundabout until they went in a different direction because I clocked that they were following me, and then terrifying.

[1:03:52] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, really, that's the scariest thing that's ever happened with a fan.

[1:03:56] Linzi Hateley: Okay, I'm sorry about that. Yeah, um what is the worst audition you can remember?

[1:04:03] Linzi Hateley: God, there's so many. You don't have to get into specifics, but there's so many, there's so many, honestly. I mean, I had one quite recently. I mean, talk about you know, lockdown nightmare. You suddenly your agents calling you to do things that you'd never normally do under normal circumstances. And they said, I'm quite a little shorty, and they said, Lynns, don't be insulted, but would you go for an audition to play a Christmas elf? And I was like, Oh god, yeah, go on then, I'll give it a go. And I went for this audition, and I only got the um penciled, um, and it was for an advert, and and they were like, You've been penciled, but they want to just see you once more, and you've got to go into London.

Well, it was the first time I've been into London while all this craziness is going on, and I've got this mascara and what and I felt really, you know, quite sort of scared. It was and I so I was completely out of my comfort zone, and London is my comfort zone normally. And I went into this audition, and and I sort of thought I you know practically got it, and then suddenly I got in there, and there was loads of other little people looking a bit sort of elf-like, and I was just like, uh oh, and then they said you've got to learn this thing really quickly. Well, my middle-aged brain doesn't learn anything quickly. Um, and I went into the this audition, and I said, Okay, go. And I was just like, I can't remember any of it, I just can't remember anything at all. So I literally was making up rubbish, and I didn't get the job.

[1:05:23] Marc Tumminelli: Well, they should have cast you. Have you ever performed for the Queen?

[1:05:29] Linzi Hateley: Uh not the Queen. I have performed for Charles and Diana. Um, and um, in fact, I think most of Rotti, but I haven't performed for the Queen. I did do a raw variety performance.

[1:05:45] Marc Tumminelli: Was she there?

[1:05:46] Linzi Hateley: No, I don't think she was there.

[1:05:48] Marc Tumminelli: So no, we have to fix it, yes.

[1:05:50] Linzi Hateley: We have to fix it. All right, who is your first celebrity crush?

[1:05:56] Linzi Hateley: Oh, um Tim Curry.

[1:05:59] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my god.

[1:06:00] Linzi Hateley: I know, I know. Um you know, what can I say? Because of Rocky Herr. Says it all, yeah. I was obsessed with the Rocky Horror, and I and I just thought he was full-on sexy.

[1:06:09] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[1:06:09] Linzi Hateley: Have you seen or listened to the new reworked Carrie?

[1:06:13] Linzi Hateley: I have. I um heard the album, um, and I saw um a version of it at the South Playhouse in London. Um, and uh I think that they'd fixed loads of things, and it was um I thought the girl that played Carrie was great, um, Evie, who's um, yeah, we did have a few conversations because I think she wanted to touch base. Um, but um, you know, it I still still think that it, it, you know, you can't, I don't think it, I don't think it's a piece that you're ever gonna get right, and I don't think it should ever be right. I just think I think that's the point. I think that it's it's just this moving feat that that just isn't ever gonna quite quite work. And I think that although there are elements of it that were so much more right, and it it had it felt more like a a show, a whole piece of theatre. Um, it kind of missed the camp and the and the spectacle and the the extremities of of what Broadway was. So, you know, it just can't get it quite right.

[1:07:21] Marc Tumminelli: Would you like to play Margaret?

[1:07:24] Linzi Hateley: Well, I I never thought I did. I I never I always felt that I was a Carrie, and it actually wasn't until recently when I was asked to do a Halloween special of um uh the theatre channel. Yeah, I was like, Did you see here? Yeah, and it's funny because well, it's you know, I mean, I didn't want to sort of pretend I was being Margaret. I thought, you know, I'll paint you now as black and try and do, you know, I wasn't trying to play the character, I was just asked to sing the song, but they they they'd set it in a kind of haunted um situation, so it kind of added to the atmosphere of it. But it was interesting singing the song um uh and being a mother. I I don't know, I suddenly realized that there was actually a lot more similarities between Carrie and the mother than I realized, and um I it would be an interesting uh it would be an interesting exercise, I think. But I'm not gonna go.

[1:08:14] Marc Tumminelli: I would pay roll price to see that.

[1:08:17] Linzi Hateley: Yeah, thank you. A couple more. Fill in the blank. Cameron McIntosh is very wealthy.

[1:08:27] Marc Tumminelli: Okay. Um, how did you feel about the book, Not Sense Carrie that you are on the cover of?

[1:08:34] Linzi Hateley: Um disappointed at the time.

[1:08:38] Marc Tumminelli: Do they have to get your approval for that?

[1:08:40] Linzi Hateley: No, no. And that's what I was disappointed about, you know. And I think I think also because I was pissed off that they'd yellow, they'd used a shot that um after one of the performances, we we had to do a photo shoot because they wanted to have a photo of me covered in the blood. So it had to be after a performance. Um so I did one of the performances, and afterward, they got me in this sort of room somewhere and uh did these shots, and I was doing them all, you know, with a very serious, scary as I could face. Um and then somebody made me laugh, and I went like that. And there's that one shot, and they use that shot on the front cover of this Not Since Carrie book. And I just thought, you know, there's one thing using an image of of me, um, and there's another thing using an image of me smiling with a big chubby face when actually you know there was a background to why I was smiling in that shot. So you know, I was just a bit, yeah.

[1:09:32] Marc Tumminelli: All right. Uh it's a good story. Have you ever left a show at the interval?

[1:09:38] Linzi Hateley: Um, as in uh watching a show.

[1:09:42] Marc Tumminelli: Audience member, you don't have to tell us what it is.

[1:09:44] Linzi Hateley: Yes.

[1:09:45] Marc Tumminelli: Yes, okay. Um, and my last question is what advice do you have for young performers?

[1:09:52] Linzi Hateley: Um have a second string to your you know, do something, have something else that you can also do. Um I'm saying it to my daughter at the moment. You know, it's like uh it can be a wonderful career, and you must follow your dreams and work, you know, super hard. Um take it seriously, but try and have a sense of humor as well. Um you know, don't don't lose, don't lose the passion that you have for it, but be realistic that you are going to be out of work as much as you are in it. So therefore it's really important to have something else that you can also enjoy as a as a sort of a second string.

[1:10:36] Marc Tumminelli: That's wonderful. Lindsay, tell people where they can find out what you're up to. Where can we follow and behavior?

[1:10:42] Linzi Hateley: I mean lockdown, no one can find me anywhere. Um, I'm so you know, it's so behind the times and not up not down with the kids. Um, but I do do a bit of Twitter. You can sort of see me on there. I tried to do it with Instagram, but I just thought, oh my no, it's not me. Um, so yeah, Twitter's really the only place where you know we'll follow you on Twitter.

[1:11:05] Marc Tumminelli: Lindsay, thank you so much for joining me today. This was such a dream for me. You are such a delight. And I can't wait to come to the West End and see you in a show.

[1:11:13] Linzi Hateley: Oh, let's hope, hey. Let's just I can't wait to get back to New York and oh my god, we're coming.

[1:11:18] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, love to, love to. Thank you again. Thank you all for listening, and I will see you next week.

[1:11:25] Linzi Hateley: Thank you, listeners. This podcast is produced by Alan Seals, Dori Berenstein, and the Broadway Podcast Network, and edited by Derek Gunther. For more information on the LITTLE ME podcast, go to bpn.fm slash little me. And follow me on Instagram at Marc Tumminelli or on Twitter at that to no. And for more information on workshops, classes, and everything Broadway Workshop, go to Broadway Workshop.com. Thank you for listening.