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[0:01] ♪ Musical number ♪

[0:20] Samantha Williams: I'm so excited to be here!

[0:22] Marc Tumminelli: Hello, welcome back to Little Me: Growing Up Broadway with me, Marc Tumminelli. My guest today made her Broadway debut during her junior year of college in the Tony Award-winning hit musical Dear Evan Hansen playing the role of Alana Beck. Most recently, she blew the roof off Studio 54, playing Emmy in the Broadway revival of Caroline, or Change. Her other credits include the National Tour of Dear Evan Hansen, as well as playing Dot in Sunday in the Park with George and the title role of Caroline in Caroline, or Change at Pace University. Please welcome Samantha Williams.

[0:53] Samantha Williams: Hi.

[0:54] Marc Tumminelli: You really did your research.

[0:58] Samantha Williams: I don't know a lot about you as a child, pre-Pace, but we're gonna get all into that. Before we talk about anything else, we have to talk about this mammoth experience you just concluded doing Caroline, or Change on Broadway, a show that I am very obsessed with. My top three favorite musicals of all time. And of course, you had this wild ride with opening the show, not opening the show, COVID, reopening, you know, the whole thing. So let's go back. Let's just talk about the whole thing. Talk to me about booking it in the first place. Like pre-COVID, what was that?

[1:32] Samantha Williams: You were in your senior year, I'm assuming at the time.

[1:34] Samantha Williams: Uh no, no, no, no. I graduated in 2020. So I think I booked it, I guess, yeah, beginning of my senior year.

[1:44] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, you're right.

[1:46] Samantha Williams: Um, I'm normally right, but you might be fairy ranked.

[1:50] Marc Tumminelli: Okay, no, no, no. Okay, great, great. Great to know. It's actually a really fun story. So I was about to, so in my contract for Dear Evan Hansen, it was like six months on tour, ten months, oh no, six months on Broadway, and then in the contract, it was like ten months on tour after. So like the switchery was like built in. I didn't necessarily want to leave for tour after doing Broadway because I wanted to finish my college experience, yeah.

[2:18] Samantha Williams: Cause I was still able to do Broadway and college at the same time, my junior year when I was doing Evan Hansen, and I didn't really feel like I should leave. So I auditioned, so I had an audition like during my last month of Evan Hansen for Emmy, and it went really well. Then I did another callback, and then at the end of the month, the day that I was supposed to leave for tour, of course I had my final callback for Emmy. And that day I had just like ended my run. So I was super tired, really sick, and it was probably one of the worst auditions of my life. And I left the room and I was like, damn, like I did not get that. And I left for tour and I was gone on tour for like two to three months.

And then when I was in Texas, which is actually where I'm from, when I was in Texas on tour in Dallas, Texas, I got a call and they were like, okay, we want to do one last callback for Emmy. So like they want to, you want, they want you to fly up and do it. So then I flew to New York, I did my final callback, and then the next day I flew back to Texas to be on tour, and that's when I found out. But something I left out, which is what makes this story really cool, is I at that point I had given up hope of getting the role. So I was like coming to terms with just being on tour. And one day I went to a Chinese restaurant and I got a fortune cookie, and it said you will be receiving really good news, like a phone call with really good news. And that's when I got the phone call. That day was when I got the phone call that they wanted me to fly there and do my last callback. So believe all fortune cookies.

[4:01] Marc Tumminelli: So believe all fortune cookies, they are correct. And I still have the little thing. I don't know where it is, but yeah, isn't that crazy? Did you feel like your callback went very well? Did you feel so differently than the time you had been in before?

[4:16] Samantha Williams: Yeah, because I wasn't sick or anything. So I like I went in and I was like, this is my moment. I like didn't tell any of my friends I was in New York, I was just there to do that. And it went so well. And I kind of had like after I did it, I was like, if that's not mine, I know I did like really good.

[4:32] Marc Tumminelli: Everything you could, yeah, and then the next day I got the phone call. Okay, so then how long did you stay in the Hansen tour before you had to depart that?

[4:41] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I think I stayed like maybe like I think we had a layoff for a week for Christmas break, and then I was there two more weeks after. So there was, and it's really fun to do a job when you know you have a bigger job happening.

[4:56] Marc Tumminelli: Oh yeah.

[4:56] Samantha Williams: I was like, I felt like given the best Alana Beck that's ever been seen.

[5:02] Marc Tumminelli: No, yeah. Well, it was actually really funny. I felt like my body started to like reject doing it because I knew that I was leaving soon. It was a really weird experience, actually. But um, yeah. And also like such a dream. I mean, we'll talk about you doing Caroline at Pace. So you know the show very well. Yeah, this role, even though it's not the role you played. Um, and so I'm sure there's like I'm gonna get to do this at the greatest level available. Is it's such a thrilling thing for a person to feel, you know?

[5:33] Samantha Williams: It it no, it was like and oh god, it was the best experience of my life, really. Like, all right, so you come back to New York, you start rehearsing, and this sounds like you're starting to rehearse in January of 2020.

[5:48] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[5:48] Samantha Williams: Rutro. Um, things are not gonna go great. So you went pretty far through the process because you guys were doing your first day of tech or when Broadway closed, where were you in the process of Caroline for Broadway?

[6:02] Samantha Williams: We were about to do our invited dress. So we were about to have our like our first audience.

[6:09] Marc Tumminelli: Okay. Now, did you feel like something was happening? Tell us like, was it like, oh, is this something I need to be worried about? What were you feeling in those days leading up to it?

[6:17] Samantha Williams: It's so weird. Like my brother, who's like super into like the news and stuff like that, he called me like beginning of February, actually, and he was like, I don't think like your show's gonna happen right now, to be honest. Like, and I was like, bro, like right on my parade. Don't freaking say that, you psycho. And then once the NBA closed down, I was like, yeah, that's a, we're in trouble.

[6:43] Samantha Williams: Yeah, but I thought it was just gonna be like a two-week break, honestly, as did a lot of people. So when they told us we weren't doing it, I was like, okay, dope. Like I need two weeks to like relax. Like this has been kind of stressful. Like, I'm excited to like have two weeks to recoup and like rest my voice. And then it turned into like a year and a half. Did you ever feel in that year and a half it wasn't going to happen?

[7:07] Samantha Williams: Uh yes. But I tried not to sink into that feeling. Or else I would just, you know, because it would have been easier, you know, it's roundabout, it's a limited run. It's easy for them to just say, we're not doing this now. Yeah, we'll revisit it in a couple years or whatever. So I'm sure there was this fear kind of daily that is underneath everything. Like, am I gonna actually get to do this?

[7:30] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I know. It definitely was, yeah, it was definitely scary thinking. But I also knew like they, our producers made it so clear how much they believed in the project. So they were like the first moment that we get to do it, we are going to do it. So and it happened and you did it.

[7:46] Marc Tumminelli: It happened, and we did it. Well, talk to me about coming back to it. So you have this experience of rehearsing a show, creating a character, never really getting to do it in front of an audience, but doing all the work, right? And so then you have to come back and revisit that and you know, kind of re-rehearse. There's some new kids in the show. There's a lot of a new experience about to happen. How do you revisit this role that you've already pretty much created a year and a half ago with a fresh vision?

[8:16] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I mean, just like through everything that happened that year with like, you know, the whole Black Lives Matter movement like rising and just kind of everything political happening in our country. I had a completely different perspective on the role.

[8:31] Marc Tumminelli: Tell me about it.

[8:33] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I mean, like it just was so like I think the role has, I think the show has always been timely, whether people wanted to acknowledge it or not, or which is like quite unfortunate that it's as timely as it was. I know. Like 20 years ago or 15 years ago. Yeah, I would rather it not be timely, but here we are.

[8:51] Marc Tumminelli: Same.

[8:51] Samantha Williams: Um, but I think, you know, there's just more of an awareness within like the entire community and really the entire world that people were like realizing things, specifically white people were like noticing, oh, like, yeah, like it is pretty bad for black people, you know. So I think I don't know, it just felt like I had more of like a true grasp on like what I was actually saying, because I think how important it is, right?

[9:24] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, you know.

[9:26] Samantha Williams: And also, like, you know, there's not many stories on Broadway where you're really experiencing a black woman's journey that is not about riffing, that is about a real gut story of someone who cannot move forward because the system doesn't let her. We don't get that, you know, it gets to be glitz and glam a lot. Instead of this is a real woman who's trying so hard to provide for her kids and her family in a system that won't allow her to ever get to the next step up. So it feels like such an important story and your character of Emmy, you know, and everything that happens with the statue and all that, I mean, that couldn't be more timely than it was in the last year.

[10:08] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah. What kind of struggle or what kind of pressure do you take on as you know, a black performer telling this story to a majority white audience, you know?

[10:20] Samantha Williams: I mean, I imagine that that is a really tricky thing to navigate.

[10:23] Samantha Williams: No, it really is, actually. And I would talk about it with my friends all the time, like day to day, I'd be like, how is this going to be received? And also there was like a level of like, I guess, like pressure, and like I wanted to make sure it was well, I guess it would, it was more like I didn't know how it was going to be received because I can only speak from my experience and they have no idea what that is. So I think just being as clear as possible in telling the story, which I think was easy because of how it was written. I think it was received well.

[11:05] Marc Tumminelli: But oh, it was received very well, yeah.

[11:08] Samantha Williams: But I will say there was a lot of times where I was like, oh, like I don't feel like going through this like hard story for a bunch of white people. Like, what if they don't get it? You know what I mean? Like, there's definitely like a level to that, and I wish that our audiences were more diverse. They really weren't, to be honest. Like a lot of my, a lot of like our friends and the people in the cast, like we are people would come and they were people of color and black people, but a lot of the times my friends would be like, why is there only like three of us in the audience right now?

[11:41] Marc Tumminelli: So your performance in that show and every, I mean, truly across the board was just so dynamic. Talk to me a little bit about being in the room with the level of Broadway stars and Sharon D. Clarke, who gave one hell of a performance that I will not forget anytime soon. So talk to me about working with her specifically, and then we could talk about other people.

[12:02] Samantha Williams: Yeah. You know what's so cool about it? It like they really were like the best of the best, but like you wouldn't like it felt like we were at summer camp.

[12:13] Samantha Williams: Like the vibes, like it was truly like the most laid-back fun experience. Like it which like is very telling to to like who is like why they're so good, you know. Like Sharon D. Clark was so chill and like silly and funny, and like yes, we'd be so in it, but also like she knew like how to like separate herself very well, which was super like informative for me. And also just like seeing them work and seeing how like just like the com the like they're good actors because nothing is about them, like they just are giving, giving, giving. And like I really think that's why the show is so good, is because there were no divas, like even though Sharon D. Clark's name is on the top of the the billboard or whatever, she you would have no idea. Like she everything she did was like for the other person.

[13:10] Marc Tumminelli: So we have to talk about a couple other Caroline things before I can move on. So Anika Noni Rose wanted Tony for playing this part. So there is a level of pressure because it's like the Tony Award-winning role. Do you feel any of that or do you just file that under Z?

[13:24] Samantha Williams: No, I definitely do do feel that. I definitely felt it the first time around, like pre-pandemic. Um, because I was like, I mean, I'm 23 now, but before I was 20, turned 21 during it. And I didn't really know what I was doing. I was like straight from Dear Evan Hansen, which was its own separate experience. So like I just felt a little lost. But honestly, like having the pen having those two years at home and like really like figuring out where my priorities lied and like what actually matters in life, like it kind of made me not feel that as much because also I wanted to like do it so bad, I just wanted to do it. Like I just wanted to do the show. So like there was like all the pressure of like Tony and all that stuff.

Like it was not really a thing, especially since you know we were at the beginning of Broadway coming back. Like there weren't as many events and stuff to like go to. So it wasn't really like you were like living in your own little world. I felt like I was yeah I felt like I had no distractions and like our casts and everything did a really good job of like not talking about it either. Like we just didn't really talk about that. We were just doing it and like trying to make the best it could be. So like whatever happens happens but like I had a good time.

[14:41] Marc Tumminelli: So now what I know I listened to you do a podcast with Anika, which was actually a very sweet conversation. What did you take away from that experience of having like an hour with her to kind of break down how she thought about the role what you think about the role?

[14:57] Samantha Williams: Yeah I mean oh that was like the best that was a crazy experience in our life. Like that's Princess Tiana. Oh my God. I um she oops sorry um that was crazy. I mean like what I thought was really cool is how similar our experiences were already like uh she was talking a lot about like how it was the most talented cast she'd ever been around like still to this day and like you kind of can't be in Caroline if you're not like super excellented. Yeah. You can't get away with it. You can have just like so so radio. Like it just yeah yeah fantasy. But um just like the the feeling of just like it really feeling like family and how that's how she was like even with like the kids who played her brothers and all that?

And that being like sort of like something that springboarded her forward in her career, um, and just her artistic journey. I feel like that's kind of it like mirrors and parallels perfectly with my experiences. So um, yeah, it was just really cool to hear that like her starting off point and my starting off point are the same. And like I hope to be like just an inkling of what she's got, of course she will.

[16:15] Marc Tumminelli: So it seems you mentioned the kids. The kids with you felt very special in a way that I don't know if I've seen. It might be because you're younger, but it really felt like siblings. And I was at your closing, and um, you were there, yes, never forget. That was also Sharon D. Clark was doing these like vocal runs down that were so thrilling for me that I'm like have chills thinking about it. It was like, oh for you. Okay. So she's funny. Like she would walk off stage, she would do something, and like I would like she did this a lot actually during the show, and I would like try not to laugh because I knew she was doing it for me. And we get off the stage and she'd look at me and be like, Do you like it?

She'd be like, did you like that one? I'd be like, Yeah, that was a good one. But it felt like the kids in you were just so connected, and sometimes it's so thrilling to work with young people, and sometimes it's a nightmare. Um, so how did you sort of navigate that whole that whole shebang?

[17:11] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, it was super thrilling. Uh uh, we really became like siblings. We fought like siblings, we uh loved like siblings, like those boys really do feel like they are part of my family. And yeah, no, it and also just being in a play with kids and like being around kids for most of my role, like nothing is that deep to them. Like, like when they fall into the world of the of the play, like they're there. Like there's nothing that's gonna take them out, and that was so like helpful for me as an actor. I was like, yeah, like this is literally we're just playing and like these are kids, and like we're it we're using our imagination and like we're here. And that was so helpful because I feel like a lot of times adults get caught up into their own stuff and kids are able to just play. So no, they are the best. I'll know them for the rest of their lives. Like they're the best. I love it.

[18:10] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah. Tell me about working with Tony Kushner and Janine Tessori, who are arguably the the greatest living uh composer or playwright that uh we have. Um I can't imagine what that experience is like to be, you know, a young person in musical theater and get to work with masters at that level.

[18:26] Samantha Williams: Yeah. So Janine Tessori and I have known each other for a while because when I did it, Caroline, my freshman year, she was our artist in residence. So she actually cast me as Caroline. Um and we like worked on it a bit. So when I came back, she obviously knew me and stuff. She was like a mentor, uh, in a sense. Um, so I mean, it was great to be back with her. Tony Kushner, he's so sweet. He's like like I I expected him to be like kind of scary and like I'm a playwright, but he is like a giant teddy bear and like was so helpful in like because you know it's sort of like autobiographical in a sense. So like uh like he would just tell us what was real, what is not, like what how much of Emmy is invented, how much of Emmy is invented?

Well, like, yeah, she she was completely. I would imagine, yeah. Um, I I he did she did um Caroline the or Motty Lee Davis, who it's based off of. Um he he said that she did have children though, um, which is dope. Um, but yeah, like it was just cool to like hear everything from his perspective and like what things meant and be able to have that voice so that like nothing was really ever like a question or like up for like complete debate because it was his life, so like yeah, we just had to ask. And it's like the easiest job as an actor, honestly, was being in the show because everything is first of all on the page, not so we have the resource of the person who experienced it. So it's so great.

[19:58] Marc Tumminelli: Um how hard was it to say goodbye to this chapter? I mean, it must have felt like I mean guts being ripped out.

[20:06] Samantha Williams: Yeah, because I'm sure you'd like to do it every night for the rest of your life, you know, at least for another year.

[20:10] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[20:11] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, it was it was the most fun I've ever had doing a show. Like I've never had that much fun. Like, usually at the end of a run, like I'm like tired and I'm like ready. I wanted to keep going, like I could keep doing that forever. Like it was just so much to explore, like you can't get you can't ever get blank. There's always like something else to take in. Yeah, and that's like what a gift. And you got to make a cast recording, which I actually didn't think would happen. So tell me about making you know, this revival cast album, which will now be like the recording of record, I would imagine.

[20:45] Samantha Williams: I know. It was honestly a dream come true. It's so good, dude. It's it's so awesome, and oh my god, I have to say, like Sharon D. Clark and Casey are like I can I can talk about Casey Levy all day. We're getting to her.

[21:01] Marc Tumminelli: Yes, my next thing we have to like touch down on.

[21:04] Samantha Williams: Yeah, they are so good at like Sharon D. Clark has done a lot of voiceover work. Yeah, but like that's like her thing. So like to see her like come up with like the crazy emotions she does on stage, but like put it just like all through her voice without any movement was like a master. Like it was actually the craziest experience in my life. It was like a master class. Um and it was just so fun to be there. And like it was like You're also on a Broadway cast recording. That's the little kid dream, right? You know, that's my biggest dream.

[21:39] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[21:40] Samantha Williams: Yeah. And then you'll be a Disney voice. I'm sure that's your the the next dream.

[21:44] Marc Tumminelli: That would be all right. So um I uh Casey Levy was your dressing roommate, and um she's a delight, and I love her so much. Um what kind of like sisterhood have you did you create with her over those months?

[21:55] Samantha Williams: Oh yeah, we're related at this point. Like she, yes, I'm like the auntie to her children who I've yet to meet, but like no, she and I became so close, and any low, like all the lows and all the highs, like we were right there with each other, so it was amazing. There's a great Instagram video of her letting you know Audra was there.

[22:20] Marc Tumminelli: Um, and it just like warmed my soul in a way that I can't even.

[22:24] Samantha Williams: I yeah, she and it was so funny because at the beginning of the run, she's like, Okay, like I won't tell you when she comes, but she's gonna come. And like I had it was just like a normal Matt May, and right at on stage, as soon as I jumped off the washer, one of the little boys was like, uh, we think Audra's here. Audra's here, and I was like, What? Are you crazy? And then while I was bowing, I looked over to Casey and I was like, and she was like, Yeah, she's there. Sobbing, and uh, she's is she like your is Audra like the greatest great for you?

[22:56] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, yeah.

[22:56] Samantha Williams: Yeah, she like I like didn't I couldn't even like really speak right now. Yeah, she um you need to play her daughter in something, like please.

[23:05] Marc Tumminelli: We look similar.

[23:06] Samantha Williams: We look like a similar, all right. So maybe the next revival of Gypsy will be you two.

[23:12] Marc Tumminelli: Yes, please.

[23:13] Samantha Williams: Oh my god. Um that's how I want to. So how did how did like Emmy change Samantha? Is like you know, the big question to walk away from.

[23:22] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[23:22] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I think I've always been very outspoken and um kind of political in a sense, but uh playing this character definitely like opened my eyes to like the work that I am capable of doing and helping um black people and black kids specifically. Um I feel like artistically, I feel like it showed me that I am capable of anything, honestly, because it was hard, like especially coming out of a pandemic and jumping into this character that had so much to do with what was going on, and just like mentally and physically as well. It really showed me that I can do like I am capable of of pulling myself through anything and and I don't know, telling any story that uh I actually care about, you know, like and also choosing things that make you feel that way, you know, that yes, you can have there is a world where material can really you know be in your heart, and you get the opportunity to do that on stage for other people is like yeah, the greatest gift, I would imagine.

[24:33] Samantha Williams: Yeah, it was like the first time I was doing something that I cared, like I mean, like you know, you care about like everything you have to do, obviously, but like it was the first time where I was like, oh, this is important, and also like it was like I wasn't really like putting anything on, like I felt like I was just doing myself as this, which is what you always want, obviously, as an actor, but like truly like I was just being myself, which was also very eye-opening.

[25:02] Samantha Williams: Uming that I can like I am enough as an actor, but also as like a young person in this industry.

[25:11] Marc Tumminelli: Well, it was a brilliant performance, and that closing was something, as I mentioned, nothing I'll never forget, and you being on that washer at the end, just singing your gut out. Like it was it really was so thrilling, and you should be so incredibly proud of the performance you gave and the show as a whole, and it gave us the fan. I've been a fan of Caroline since I first saw it, and it gave so many people this opportunity to see it again, and so many people who didn't get it the first time for whatever reason. Another opportunity in, and you know, it's it's to me it's art, and that is like the quintessential musical theater art like Sunday in the Park with George. It's not yeah, you know, it's like these shows that are not necessarily for everybody, but they're really really for the people who they're for.

[25:50] Samantha Williams: Absolutely, yeah. It's really a special part of your legacy.

[25:54] Marc Tumminelli: So let's go way, way back. So you grew, are you from well, you're from Lubbock, Texas?

[25:59] Samantha Williams: Uh Lufkin, Texas.

[26:01] Marc Tumminelli: Oh, Lufkin, Texas. So what is there to do for a musical theater kid who has obviously you must have grown up with this voice that you have in the spirit? What were you doing in, you know, what what does it mean? Texkin Lufkin, Texas.

[26:18] Samantha Williams: Sorry. I was singing YouTube karaoke Glee in my family living room.

[26:25] Samantha Williams: Thank God for Glee.

[26:26] Marc Tumminelli: Thank God for Glee.

[26:27] Samantha Williams: I was a Glee. Um literally, that was basically all there was to do. But I moved to Houston to attend um the high school for performing and visual arts um in 10th grade. So that's when I kind of was like, yes. This is yeah, that's for me. But I did, I mean, my first like big role in Lufkin, Texas was at the big community college. They were doing The Wizard of Oz. And one day after soccer practice, my mom was like, Okay, like you're gonna audition for like a munchkin or something. I don't know, like somebody told me about these auditions. So I'd go like in my quits and shit, and um a teacher of mine was there, and when they were like, Okay, like who's auditioning for Dorothy? Like it was like a college thing.

So like I assumed it would be like the kids are playing the munchkins and like all the college kids were playing the main roles, and my teacher just like kind of pushed me forward and I sang some Over the Rainbow, and then I got the role of Dorothy, and there was a advance at this like grand of college.

[27:26] Marc Tumminelli: Wow.

[27:26] Samantha Williams: And they so they cast a kid, and um also like it was Lufkin, Texas, so like there weren't really black people, you know, like doing this. Kind of a big deal.

[27:36] Marc Tumminelli: It's kind of a big deal.

[27:37] Samantha Williams: So like I was like on the newspaper as like black Dorothy, like people I was able to like open a lot of people's eyes and hearts by seeing like an innocent black girl playing a very innocent role, like just very like Which honestly should not be news. Um crazy.

[27:57] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, it's crazy. Um I don't know, we were like in like the mid early 2000s, so like people were not woke, especially there, it was like a truck stop town. So it was like a big deal, and I didn't know at the time until like now that I'm older, but um, I think that's when I was like, oh yeah, like I want to keep doing this. And I think that's also when my mom realized that she like had to like help me like grow into this artistic whatever I wanted to be.

[28:25] Marc Tumminelli: And so through high school, obviously now you're going to performing arts high school, you're doing school shows, you're it's gonna be your thing. So you're just looking at all the musical theater programs that make sense to you. Did you feel like you wanted to come to New York? Was that like your first choice to come to Pace? Or did you have a lot of other options? I'm sure you had lots of options. You're very talented.

[28:45] Samantha Williams: I mean, I don't know. I uh I like I wasn't sure if I was gonna study musical theater really. So I also was just gonna go to UCLA for like normal school. So that was and like maybe like do they had like a theater program and like also do that a little bit. Um so it was between like going to UCLA and like maybe going into medicine because my parents are both in the medical field, or going to New York, and like the thing is like I was like, if I'm gonna study musical theater, like I'm gonna do it in New York, like yeah, I just want to see what happens. So then I decided I I went and visited Pace, and I was like, Yeah, like why not? Like why not just give it a try? So then here we are.

[29:33] Marc Tumminelli: Well, it seems to have worked out for you, but um did you have like an agent or anything? How did Evan Hansen enter your world when you're like a you know, in your junior year of college where most kids are lucky, you know, don't audition they audition for summer stock, you know?

[29:46] Samantha Williams: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. I don't I think they saw, I think Tara Rubin's office saw Carolina Change or something like that.

[29:56] Marc Tumminelli: So every now and then Caroline, you did when you played Caroline.

[29:59] Samantha Williams: Yeah, exactly. Did you give Sharon D. Clark like some tips? You're like, actually, I don't really go at this this way.

[30:07] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, there's a video of me singing Locked by as like a 17-year-old child. I gotta find it. I had like purple highlights, it was so silly. Um I yeah, no. Uh but yeah, so I guess they saw me in that, and every now and then, like I went in for like my first big audition was I went in for Team Moon for um Once on This Island, yeah, the other revival. Um I didn't know what I was doing though, so God bless. Uh thank God I didn't do that. But uh I then would get a few things here and there, and Evan Hansen came, I think the end of my sophomore year. I went in like twice, and then um beginning of June. I went in like eight times for them, and then finally actually it was this whole thing they offered me Canada to be the understudy and the Toronto production.

And my teachers and I like we just didn't think it would make sense for me to leave school to go to Canada, really. Yeah, and so then they offered me the vacation understudy on Broadway for like a week, and then after after that week they offered me the role of Alana. So, like I kind of like it was like a nice yeah, it was like nice little baby steps into Broadway.

[31:26] Marc Tumminelli: Um, what do you remember about your first night actually like stepping foot on Broadway and playing Alana?

[31:31] Samantha Williams: It was so magical. It was so magical. I had my phone off the entire day because I like was like freaking out kind of. Yeah. Um it was like I was like, damn, like I really like this is like my biggest dream realized. And like just to like think of like I think it was like 19, 20 at the time, like to think of like that person versus now and like not even knowing that like what was on the horizon and like knowing that like it could even get even better, like it's just crazy to me. So it was it was really crazy.

[32:07] Marc Tumminelli: Now, how do you balance being in school for musical theater while you're starring in like the hottest show on Broadway at the time, certainly? Um, you know, those are those are very strange, uh that's a very strange dynamic, I imagine.

[32:20] Samantha Williams: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely on. I but I had my tea, my teachers were super helpful and like they kind of were the one the reason that I got it, because like they like brought Terra Rubin to see me. They like kind of like were pushing me towards the industry, which I thought was really awesome because although like, you know, they want people to stay in school, obviously I think they were very they knew that like I could do this at that time, so they allowed me, they helped me, which I thought was really dope. And they really wanted me to like graduate with the class and like so they just did everything in their power to like make it work for me. Like when I was able to graduate, I was able to use credit from being on Broadway, so I didn't have to like necessarily do all the like theater classes. It was more of just um doing like the liberal arts classes and finishing that. So no, they made it super easy, honestly.

[33:16] Marc Tumminelli: And how are the other students with that? Because that is also very, you know, the other kids in your class are and the that's the girl, she's in Dear Evan Hansen, you know. Like that's a weird dynamic, kind of like you know, Andrew in high school. Like he's also in Dear Evan Hansen. It's a weird, but it's a weirder dynamic when you're in a BFA program.

[33:35] Samantha Williams: Yeah.

[33:35] Marc Tumminelli: And it's what every kid wants to be doing, and you're doing it.

[33:39] Samantha Williams: I think what was so cool, like I I live with um two roommates that were in my uh class, uh uh my BFA program. What's so cool, and what we always talk about, I think the reason, I mean, obviously there were like a few people, but like usually they weren't really like my close, close friends. But what was so cool is that like we all knew each other, they knew me when I was like 17 and like horrible at this. So like I think there was just more of like a sense of pride in seeing like a fellow classmate doing something rather than like anything else connected to that. I think it was just more like, yeah, like go off kind of thing, which has still remained, and like I've only been met with like um complete support by my peers, but I think that's just a testament to them and like also just like the vibe that we created in our class while at Pace.

[34:35] Samantha Williams: Um, but I know that's not like always the case, but I do it's not always the case, but you know, it's the more you build other people up, you tend to also build yourself up. So it does seem to make the most sense.

[34:46] Marc Tumminelli: Now doing Evan Hansen is like a kind of tricky thing because Alana's very insular, like she her interactions are you know, these random moments. Um, how did you figure out how to not only pace your performance but have like a real arc of creating this girl? And I've I've saw you do that as well.

[35:01] Samantha Williams: Oh wow. Yeah, I mean, I'm another biggest fan.

[35:04] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah.

[35:07] Samantha Williams: I also I've also known everyone in that show, so yeah, I'm sure but you know it it's it's a tricky thing. So how do you make that your own after you know you're replaying you replacing someone else in a show that's pretty set but then you have to put your own spin on it. So talk to us a little bit about creating your Alana.

[35:24] Samantha Williams: Um I so the thing that like really like pushed me into like oh yeah okay I know how this is gonna happen was I had a rehearsal with just Michael Grife and I which was its own thing. Very cool. And yeah really dope. And he kind of was just like throw away like what you think it should be or like what you've seen and like let me just see like what you would bring to it and like obviously like you always have to hit the same marks because it is a commercial show. You have to hit the same marks you have to like sometimes say things a certain way to get a certain laugh at a certain moment just for the entire because I was just a vessel in Evan's story. So um in that sense it was kind of difficult but like just finding the me in it like I also don't feel like like Alana is I'm not really like her at all but there's also a lot of me that is so just finding like the like Sammy version of what Alana is is kind of what I try to do.

[36:32] Samantha Williams: And it was hard though, like coming from musical theater school where I was rolling around on the floor and doing everything I wanted to do to being like, you have to hit this mark, you have to say this word with this inflection, or else you're not gonna get that laugh.

[36:48] Samantha Williams: Like, we need that laugh and also like technically, there are all the camera stuff, like you have to be at that mark that you can't find to get the camera to pick you up to get the in the pitch black. It's so, yeah.

[36:59] Samantha Williams: Shout out to Cameron Hill who explained this whole thing to me, and she's like, it's so scary.

[37:03] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, it was definitely scary, and also just like having like, it's just a very clinical show. Like, even which is so interesting because when you watch it, it seems like so very, like, yeah, look, it just seems like very organic and just happening in the moment, but everything is thought out. Like, that's how Michael Griffith is, like it is to the T, which for like a young actor, like wasn't always the easiest for me, to be honest.

[37:35] Samantha Williams: I mean, this is all, I mean, to have two of these experiences kind of back to back before really you're even allowed to drink at a bar.

[37:44] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, it's like a lot of pressure to put on yourself.

[37:47] Samantha Williams: Yeah.

[37:48] Marc Tumminelli: Do you feel that? Do you feel like now you need to chill out a little bit? Do you feel like, you know, how do you become an adult in the industry when you've always been an adult, but not real? You know, it's not really a very tricky transition.

[38:00] Samantha Williams: Yeah, it is very weird.

[38:02] Samantha Williams: It's weird. Like when I finished, like when we had our last performance of Caroline, or Change, like because I didn't have like a true graduation from college and stuff, like that felt like, I don't even know how to explain it.

[38:03] Samantha Williams: It felt like I was graduating, like that is how I imagined it feeling, and I also felt like I was closing the chapter of my college experience just because my freshman year I started Caroline, and like this was supposed to be my senior year.

[38:30] Samantha Williams: Like, I just felt like I was, it was like this really weird feeling, and now I'm just like, oh, oh, like I'm an adult now, and I gotta figure out what's next.

[38:39] Marc Tumminelli: Like, well, you can go on vacation first and then figure out what's next.

[38:43] Samantha Williams: Yeah, exactly.

[38:43] Samantha Williams: Exactly. I imagine the last couple years have been like such a whirlwind of waiting and doing it and the emotions of getting back on stage and back on Broadway and then, oh, Omicron, like in your last, you know, chunk of Caroline really was sucked.

[38:59] Samantha Williams: Yeah, it sucked.

[39:01] Marc Tumminelli: Sorry that that happened, but you did it.

[39:03] Samantha Williams: We did it.

[39:03] Samantha Williams: No, we did it. And we didn't ever have to close due to Omicron or anything like that.

[39:08] Marc Tumminelli: So were you not seeing people at all? Like I would have been so terrified to be starring in a Broadway show in the month of December.

[39:16] Samantha Williams: Yeah, no, I literally like I was not seeing a single soul.

[39:20] Samantha Williams: My poor roommates, they're the best. Literally, like we had to kind of all live in a sort of isolated world.

[39:27] Samantha Williams: And there were moments where like my show, like for the last like two weeks, my show had me in a hotel just to be like extra safe.

[39:34] Samantha Williams: And like it was just like, it was, I was lucky that going to work was really fun, or else that whole time would have been kind of depressing to be honest.

[39:44] Samantha Williams: Like jail, Broadway jail.

[39:46] Marc Tumminelli: Broadway jail, no, literally, but like luckily, like I was dying to go to work.

[39:50] Marc Tumminelli: So I got how thrilling.

[39:53] Samantha Williams: Yeah.

[39:53] Marc Tumminelli: Now, what do you feel like is next for you? Like, do you, are you doing readings of things? I know you're, you know, like what, what do you do next?

[40:01] Samantha Williams: Yeah, so I'm doing a workshop.

[40:04] Marc Tumminelli: Okay.

[40:04] Samantha Williams: And we can't talk about yet.

[40:06] Samantha Williams: We can't really talk about things that are happening.

[40:09] Marc Tumminelli: But like, yeah, I know.

[40:10] Samantha Williams: We're doing, I'm doing a workshop of something, and then, um, I don't know.

[40:14] Samantha Williams: I'm trying, I think it would be really cool to try and do like TV film stuff, but I know that's kind of...

[40:14] Marc Tumminelli: No, I actually am like thinking that is gonna be a really big thing for you in the next...

[40:24] Samantha Williams: I just have a, I have an instinct that you are gonna be on a TV show in the next year.

[40:28] Marc Tumminelli: We're gonna get, we won't get you on Broadway right away, but we'll get you back in a few years.

[40:33] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I would love to do that.

[40:36] Samantha Williams: Just to like, it's a different, send it out into the world.

[40:39] Samantha Williams: It's a different form of like super hard work, but in the sense of not having to do the same thing eight shows a week.

[40:47] Samantha Williams: Like I think it would be a cool, like just like variety.

[40:50] Samantha Williams: Also, I've just always wanted to do that, and the money's really good.

[40:54] Marc Tumminelli: Are there TV shows you're obsessed with that you'd love to be on?

[40:57] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I mean, a few of them are off already, but like my favorite show is Girls with Lena Dunham.

[41:04] Samantha Williams: Um, I don't know, like, well, that's your generation, Sex in the City, so that's why you love Girls.

[41:11] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I love that show.

[41:14] Samantha Williams: Alina Dunham, new HBO show that is about you.

[41:17] Marc Tumminelli: There we go.

[41:17] Samantha Williams: Yes, please.

[41:18] Samantha Williams: We said it here first.

[41:20] Marc Tumminelli: All right. You are such a delight. We're gonna do the Broadway Workshop Quickfire Questions. Are you ready?

[41:26] Samantha Williams: I'm ready.

[41:27] Marc Tumminelli: Okay. First audition song.

[41:31] Samantha Williams: Oh goodness. Um, I sang Somewhere Over the Rainbow.

[41:39] Marc Tumminelli: Great.

[41:40] Marc Tumminelli: First Broadway standard.

[41:42] Marc Tumminelli: First Broadway show you saw?

[41:42] Samantha Williams: Uh, not Caroline, or Change. The Color Purple with Cynthia Erivo.

[41:48] Marc Tumminelli: Oh my god. That was your first Broadway show.

[41:51] Marc Tumminelli: Wasn't that the most dynamic performance you've maybe ever seen?

[41:55] Samantha Williams: That was like life-changing. I can't.

[41:57] Samantha Williams: It was my senior year, senior year of high school.

[42:00] Marc Tumminelli: Wow.

[42:01] Marc Tumminelli: What show would you like to do with Audra McDonald?

[42:05] Samantha Williams: Ooh, ooh, um, uh, good.

[42:10] Samantha Williams: Uh, God, I don't know. Something new.

[42:13] Marc Tumminelli: Okay.

[42:14] Marc Tumminelli: Last person you texted.

[42:17] Samantha Williams: I don't have my phone.

[42:19] Samantha Williams: Um, honestly, probably Andrew.

[42:21] Samantha Williams: We just, we had dinner yesterday, so yeah.

[42:24] Marc Tumminelli: Shout out to Andrew Barth Feldman, our favorite.

[42:26] Samantha Williams: Um, who's your favorite Elphaba?

[42:30] Samantha Williams: Casey Levy.

[42:31] Marc Tumminelli: Yes, great answer.

[42:33] Marc Tumminelli: Um, what is your go-to album for a car trip?

[42:37] Samantha Williams: Um, the new Yeba album.

[42:40] Marc Tumminelli: Can you name two Real Housewives?

[42:43] Samantha Williams: No.

[42:44] Marc Tumminelli: Great.

[42:44] Marc Tumminelli: I don't think pancakes or waffles.

[42:48] Samantha Williams: Pancakes.

[42:50] Marc Tumminelli: Strangest stage door Dear Evan Hansen experience.

[42:55] Samantha Williams: There are a lot.

[42:57] Samantha Williams: Did anyone give you like a weird present?

[43:00] Samantha Williams: Uh yes.

[43:02] Samantha Williams: I'll say a present that somebody else got that I think is even weirder.

[43:05] Samantha Williams: Sky Lakota Lynch, who played Jared, once got a lollipop and like a letter, and inside the bag there was like a spider that had to have been like packaged in there because there's no other way for it to get into the envelope.

[43:21] Samantha Williams: It was very odd, anyway.

[43:22] Marc Tumminelli: Oh, wow.

[43:24] Samantha Williams: I know.

[43:25] Marc Tumminelli: Okay, here we go.

[43:26] Marc Tumminelli: Um, do you do any impressions?

[43:31] Samantha Williams: No, I'm so boring.

[43:32] Samantha Williams: I'm sorry.

[43:33] Samantha Williams: No, you're not, you're killing it.

[43:35] Marc Tumminelli: Who is your favorite Muppet?

[43:39] Samantha Williams: Uh, the pig.

[43:40] Samantha Williams: What's her name?

[43:41] Samantha Williams: Miss Piggy.

[43:42] Marc Tumminelli: Miss Piggy.

[43:44] Marc Tumminelli: You know, I forget that I shouldn't ask that question to people under the age of like 30.

[43:48] Samantha Williams: What is wrong with me?

[43:50] Marc Tumminelli: I'm exposing myself.

[43:51] Marc Tumminelli: Who's your favorite Evan Hansen?

[43:54] Samantha Williams: Andrew.

[43:55] Marc Tumminelli: Mine too.

[43:56] Marc Tumminelli: Um, what is your favorite song in Caroline?

[44:00] Samantha Williams: Um, Underwater.

[44:01] Marc Tumminelli: Oh God, so good.

[44:03] Samantha Williams: Um, Salty Teardrops every day.

[44:04] Samantha Williams: And Hate the Bus.

[44:05] Samantha Williams: I mean, I think I Hate the Bus is like the greatest section of a musical, like that whole section.

[44:11] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, with the dad and everything.

[44:13] Samantha Williams: Yeah.

[44:13] Marc Tumminelli: Yes.

[44:14] Marc Tumminelli: Like, doesn't get better.

[44:15] Samantha Williams: Okay.

[44:16] Marc Tumminelli: Um, if you can go back in time and see any Broadway show any year, what would it be?

[44:22] Samantha Williams: I really want to see Audra in One Ten in the Shade.

[44:25] Marc Tumminelli: Oh God, it was so good.

[44:26] Marc Tumminelli: Um, what is your Starbucks order?

[44:31] Samantha Williams: Um, I don't really drink Starbucks that much, but I would say a green tea latte with oat milk.

[44:38] Marc Tumminelli: What is something you always have in your dressing room?

[44:42] Samantha Williams: Uh, humidifier.

[44:45] Marc Tumminelli: Smart.

[44:45] Marc Tumminelli: Um, are you into true crime? And if so, what case would you like to have solved?

[44:50] Samantha Williams: Ooh, that's a good one.

[44:52] Samantha Williams: I'm not really into it, to be honest.

[44:54] Samantha Williams: I don't really.

[44:55] Samantha Williams: I'm sorry, I'm so boring.

[44:57] Marc Tumminelli: You're not.

[44:58] Samantha Williams: You're not. Also, you've been living in a bubble for like a minute.

[45:01] Samantha Williams: Yeah, I don't really.

[45:01] Samantha Williams: I know there's like a bunch of true crime like podcasts and all that.

[45:04] Marc Tumminelli: It's not for you.

[45:05] Samantha Williams: If it's not for you, it's not for you.

[45:06] Marc Tumminelli: Okay.

[45:07] Samantha Williams: Yeah.

[45:07] Samantha Williams: Your favorite quarantine TV binge.

[45:11] Samantha Williams: Ooh, ooh, um, uh, Unorthodox.

[45:15] Marc Tumminelli: So good.

[45:16] Samantha Williams: I guess it wasn't really a binge, but it was, I mean, it's a binge.

[45:19] Samantha Williams: You had to watch it.

[45:20] Marc Tumminelli: Um, favorite song to sing when none of your roommates are home.

[45:24] Samantha Williams: Um, Creep by Radiohead, but like the Postmodern Jukebox version.

[45:29] Marc Tumminelli: Yes.

[45:30] Marc Tumminelli: The really loud version.

[45:31] Marc Tumminelli: Have you ever left a show at intermission and you don't have to tell us what it is?

[45:36] Samantha Williams: No.

[45:36] Samantha Williams: Oh, like left watching a show?

[45:38] Samantha Williams: Like you're like, I can't sit here any longer.

[45:41] Samantha Williams: No, but I have wanted to, but I don't.

[45:43] Samantha Williams: I would never.

[45:43] Marc Tumminelli: Have you ever had a call out mid-show?

[45:46] Samantha Williams: No.

[45:47] Samantha Williams: But I think I, there are moments I should have, but I don't.

[45:51] Samantha Williams: Um, Andrew is the only Evan to not call out mid-show, he says, but maybe that's not, maybe that's not.

[45:58] Samantha Williams: No, it's true.

[45:59] Samantha Williams: It's true.

[46:00] Samantha Williams: It's true.

[46:00] Marc Tumminelli: I almost like to bother him.

[46:02] Marc Tumminelli: What do you want on your bagel?

[46:05] Samantha Williams: Ooh, uh, depends on the day, but I do love a salmon, like a lox bagel.

[46:10] Samantha Williams: My grandma makes the best one, the best kind of lox bagel.

[46:13] Samantha Williams: My grandma made the best bagels too.

[46:14] Samantha Williams: And it was just toasting it.

[46:15] Samantha Williams: She just knew how to toast it better than anybody.

[46:18] Marc Tumminelli: Yeah, still love.

[46:19] Samantha Williams: God bless.

[46:20] Marc Tumminelli: All right.

[46:20] Marc Tumminelli: What movie can you watch over and over again?

[46:22] Samantha Williams: Princess Diaries.

[46:24] Marc Tumminelli: Yes.

[46:24] Marc Tumminelli: Um, you should star in that musical.

[46:27] Samantha Williams: Is it gonna be, is it gonna be a musical?

[46:29] Samantha Williams: I mean, it's been kicking around forever.

[46:31] Marc Tumminelli: Um, all right.

[46:32] Marc Tumminelli: What advice do you have for young performers?

[46:35] Samantha Williams: Oh god.

[46:37] Samantha Williams: Um, I would just say to be yourself because there's so many people out there, but like nobody is you, which I know sounds corny, but it's so true.

[46:48] Samantha Williams: Um, and it's really easy to forget, but there are no boxes, only windows.

[46:53] Marc Tumminelli: I love it.

[46:56] Marc Tumminelli: Um, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell the people, tell the people where they can follow you to find out what's going on, what's next for you, and all those things.

[47:06] Samantha Williams: Um, no, it's great. I have an Instagram.

[47:09] Samantha Williams: Um, it's at S A W M I E, at Saw Me, because Sammy wasn't available.

[47:15] Marc Tumminelli: Okay.

[47:15] Samantha Williams: Um, and that's all I have.

[47:17] Samantha Williams: So I guess follow me there.

[47:19] Marc Tumminelli: So follow you there.

[47:20] Marc Tumminelli: Listen to the Caroline, or Change cast recording at Nauseum.

[47:24] Marc Tumminelli: Um, it is so brilliant.

[47:25] Marc Tumminelli: I am so glad that we had a chance to connect.

[47:28] Marc Tumminelli: You are just like incredibly talented, and the world is like so excited about you.

[47:33] Marc Tumminelli: So I think huge, huge things are coming your way.

[47:36] Marc Tumminelli: And this was like the greatest launch of a young person's career ever.

[47:41] Marc Tumminelli: So thank you for doing this today with me.

[47:43] Samantha Williams: And thank you for listening, everybody.

[47:45] Marc Tumminelli: We'll be back next week with a new episode.

[47:47] Marc Tumminelli: Samantha Williams, thank you.

[47:49] Samantha Williams: Thank you.

[47:50] Samantha Williams: This was so fun.

[47:52] Marc Tumminelli: Awesome.

[47:53] Marc Tumminelli: Bye.

[47:54] Samantha Williams: Bye.

[47:56] Marc Tumminelli: Thank you, listeners. This podcast is produced by Alan Seales, Dory Berenstein, and the Broadway Podcast Network, and edited by Derek Gunther.

[48:05] Marc Tumminelli: For more information on the Little Me podcast, go to bpn.fm/littleme.

[48:10] Marc Tumminelli: And follow me on Instagram at Marc Tumminelli or on Twitter at That Tuminelli.

[48:15] Marc Tumminelli: And for more information on workshops, classes, and everything Broadway Workshop, go to BroadwayWorkshop.com.

[48:20] Marc Tumminelli: Thank you for listening.