This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 43 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:04] Rory O'Malley: If you like the podcast, subscribe, rate, review, do it.

[0:09] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream.

[0:12] Rory O'Malley: Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:16] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here. Welcome to Living the Dream. Thank you for listening.

[0:21] Rory O'Malley: This episode is weird.

[0:25] Rory O'Malley: I'm just gonna be out and out about it.

[0:28] Rory O'Malley: Um I uh I decided to, well, I kind of decided to just take a week off.

[0:33] Rory O'Malley: I had family in town, wonderful, wonderful week. And I wanted to replay my interview from six months ago with my buddy Josh Gad because he has a wonderful movie coming out that just came out last weekend.

[0:46] Rory O'Malley: Marshall, it is so fantastic. It is so, so good. Go see Josh Gad in Marshall with Sterling K. Brown.

[0:55] Rory O'Malley: Uh, it is it is such a phenomenal movie uh about Thurgood Marshall, um, a particular case that he took on.

[1:06] Rory O'Malley: And uh it's great. Played by uh Thurgood Marshall's played by Chadwick Boseman, and he's so good.

[1:13] Rory O'Malley: I was really blown away by it, and I'm so proud of Josh because I think it's a really it's a big turning point in his career.

[1:20] Rory O'Malley: Um, you know, he's had such an awesome, wonderful career playing the funny guy, and this is showing his dramatic side, which he's he's a phenomenal actor, and I'm really proud of him.

[1:32] Rory O'Malley: So I'm replaying my interview with him from six months ago, and uh I thought I'd take this opportunity to answer some questions as well.

[1:41] Rory O'Malley: So I asked on Twitter, uh, Ask Me Anything, and uh here are some questions from Olivia.

[1:48] Rory O'Malley: I have as a Broadway actor, how much sleep do you typically get a night?

[1:52] Rory O'Malley: I think this is a great question, Olivia. Um one of the what it made me think of first of all is every time I tweet something or put something out after the show, people always respond back.

[2:05] Rory O'Malley: Why are you still awake? You should be in bed. And it makes me laugh, slash kind of annoying, because I'm tweeting something out at 11:30 midnight, maybe.

[2:19] Rory O'Malley: I don't even leave the theater until 11:30. Um, so when I get home, I don't instantly go to bed.

[2:26] Rory O'Malley: I'm awake usually until like one o'clock in the morning. And it takes a little while to one just to get home, but to like wind down, usually I have a little snack slash another dinner.

[2:39] Rory O'Malley: And I I just kind of wind down with some TV, kind of calm down from all the crazy adrenaline that rushes through you when you're doing a show, especially Hamilton.

[2:51] Rory O'Malley: So it takes me a little while to get to bed. I usually go to bed around 1 a.m. My husband would say that's a lie. It's not.

[2:58] Rory O'Malley: That is when I go to bed. Um sometimes it takes me a little longer to fall asleep. So I'll listen to a podcast or something in my ear so I don't disturb him as I'm going to bed.

[3:10] Rory O'Malley: And then I try to get six to seven and a half hours. Seven and a half is the magic number.

[3:15] Rory O'Malley: Um, my husband would make fun of me and said, Yeah, right, you don't wake up until noon. That is a lie.

[3:25] Rory O'Malley: Uh, I get a lot done in the morning and try to be active because you also just want to start getting your voice ready to go for later that night, especially if you have a matinee.

[3:37] Rory O'Malley: So I'm usually up by like 8:30 or 9, and that might just mean that I'm stirring in my bed. But after seven and a half hours sleep, that's that's plenty.

[3:47] Rory O'Malley: And I'm sure to a lot of you, you're like, wow, that's a lot of sleep. Um, but for me, like I I need to have sleep to do eight shows a week, even when I'm just playing King George.

[4:01] Rory O'Malley: It's just a big part of the job, getting enough sleep. Uh so thanks for the question.

[4:06] Rory O'Malley: Um, I also have from Elder Zelder, uh, what's your biggest insecurity when it comes to performing your job if you have any?

[4:16] Rory O'Malley: Ha, if I have any. Um, I'm a performer. I have endless insecurity.

[4:23] Rory O'Malley: What is important is to every day just walk right through that insecurity and step out on that stage.

[4:30] Rory O'Malley: You know, as a performer, you have to prove yourself with every performance. You have to earn your place.

[4:39] Rory O'Malley: And I certainly feel the pressure of that in Hamilton that there are people who have waited so long to get in that theater, who have paid so much money.

[4:50] Rory O'Malley: And um I'm always insecure that I'm that I'm am I ready to give them the performance that they've earned that they're looking for.

[4:59] Rory O'Malley: And you know, I I think that the way that I do it is just remember to tell the story. It's not about me, and that it's uh the work has already been done, and just to trust that and to rely on my fellow actors that we're a team, even when I'm up there by myself, I still very still feel very much a part of a team.

[5:19] Rory O'Malley: Um, and that makes it a lot easier. Uh, you know, it's my insecurity is just self-worth. Not a big one.

[5:29] Rory O'Malley: Um then it says, what advice do you have on staying best friends with someone? That's from Mara. And she says, I'm looking at you, Josh Gad.

[5:39] Rory O'Malley: I thought this was appropriate for me replaying the Josh Gad episode. Uh, Josh and I have been able to stay friends in this business and just in general because we care about each other, and uh we stay in constant contact, and we know we are always there for each other.

[6:02] Rory O'Malley: And what a wonderful resource that has been through Broadway shows and college and you know, just life. Uh he doesn't live too far from me here in Los Angeles, and you know, I'm over at his place for dinner all the time.

[6:18] Rory O'Malley: They don't come over here for dinner, but they have better food. Um Gerald and I and Josh and his wife, uh we look at their friendship as one of the most important we've had, and and uh we wouldn't be here without them.

[6:34] Rory O'Malley: So, you know, I I think that staying friends with someone is is so important, especially in this business. You have to remember that somebody else's success is not your failure.

[6:44] Rory O'Malley: My joy and happiness for Josh Gad gets greater and greater with every success that he has because I I love him so much, and I feel like it's mine too.

[6:58] Rory O'Malley: And luckily, Josh is someone who shares his success and happiness with his friends and family. And I certainly hope that he feels the same way about me.

[7:10] Rory O'Malley: I certainly know that when good things happen to me, Josh is the first one to call and uh say congratulations or be there. So uh we're both lucky in that way.

[7:22] Rory O'Malley: And I think that, you know, just supporting each other is what's most important. Uh then I have the most important question here is from Sheila Burke.

[7:35] Rory O'Malley: What Broadway actors would you cast for Golden Girls, the musical? Wow, I cannot wait for Golden Girls and the Musical.

[7:42] Rory O'Malley: Um I haven't thought this through completely, but I would say Bernadette Peters as Rose.

[7:56] Rory O'Malley: I would say Bette Midler as Blanche. I would say. Wow.

[8:09] Rory O'Malley: This is a this this might take all day. This is one of the most important questions I've ever been asked.

[8:15] Rory O'Malley: Um, who would play Dorothy? I guess. I guess we would have to say Patty.

[8:25] Rory O'Malley: Patty would do a great Dorothy, wouldn't she? Yeah, Patty LuPone.

[8:29] Rory O'Malley: And then for Sophia, oof. Who would be our Sophia? Let's bring back Carol Channing. Let's do it. She's ready.

[8:39] Rory O'Malley: Um, so here is my conversation from six months ago with the wonderful Josh Gad. Please go see Marshall in theaters now.

[8:50] Rory O'Malley: It is absolutely fantastic. And uh you can also see him coming up soon in the ORIENT EXPRESS, which is also coming out with our buddy Leslie Odom Jr. That's gonna be a huge movie as well.

[9:01] Rory O'Malley: So enjoy my talk with my buddy Josh.

[9:04] Josh Gad: I didn't know we started, I'm sorry.

[9:06] Rory O'Malley: No, we did start.

[9:07] Rory O'Malley: I wouldn't have added you. We started 30 minutes ago.

[9:10] Josh Gad: Oh great. We're halfway through. This has been the best interview I've ever given.

[9:15] Josh Gad: I am saying.

[9:16] Rory O'Malley: Well, that's that's an easy bar.

[9:20] Josh Gad: Um hi Josh Gad.

[9:21] Rory O'Malley: Hi, Rory O'Malley.

[9:23] Josh Gad: Okay, you've already blown out the mic.

[9:25] Rory O'Malley: Is it bad?

[9:25] Josh Gad: Yeah, it's bad. You are already the worst interview I've ever had.

[9:29] Josh Gad: Hi, Rory O'Malley. I was thinking from Carnegie Malley.

[9:32] Rory O'Malley: I know how exciting this is that we get to for you for you to do my podcast because you've been begging me.

[9:39] Josh Gad: I have been begging you. That's not actually that's not a joke.

[9:42] Josh Gad: It's not a joke. I've been very insulted by the fact that you've asked literally everybody from every background.

[9:50] Rory O'Malley: People that like I've been looking for people that I'm interested in.

[9:53] Josh Gad: No, I get I can see that. People who excite me, people who inspire me. And I can see that you ran through that list.

[9:59] Josh Gad: It took you a while, and now you're well.

[10:02] Rory O'Malley: I know that when I asked Seth, you really hurt.

[10:05] Josh Gad: That really broke my heart a little bit.

[10:07] Rory O'Malley: You were pissed.

[10:08] Josh Gad: You texted me immediately. Like, well, when am I gonna be on?

[10:11] Josh Gad: I just I introduced you to Seth. Half the people you've interviewed, I've introduced you.

[10:16] Rory O'Malley: That's now that as well.

[10:17] Josh Gad: No, that's I introduced you to Seth.

[10:19] Rory O'Malley: Your husband.

[10:20] Josh Gad: I introduced you to your mother.

[10:23] Rory O'Malley: Oh, that's true.

[10:24] Josh Gad: I wasn't aware of you before.

[10:26] Josh Gad: To so many people who have gotten to do this show before I have. I'm really it hurts.

[10:32] Rory O'Malley: Well, I actually was on the phone with my agent this morning, being like, I f I'm finally doing it.

[10:36] Josh Gad: I know. Really excited.

[10:38] Rory O'Malley: I know. It's a big break.

[10:39] Josh Gad: And as I said, if you would have done this before Beauty and the Beast opened, you guys would have hit a billion in the first weekend.

[10:48] Rory O'Malley: That's what what's so heartbreaking.

[10:50] Josh Gad: You don't think I get a call every day from Emma Watson going, why? Why didn't you do it? And I said it's not my fault.

[10:57] Rory O'Malley: I know. I'm sorry, Josh. I'm sorry, Emma.

[11:01] Josh Gad: Um, I'm really glad you're This is by the way, my podcast, brev.

[11:07] Rory O'Malley: It's good.

[11:07] Josh Gad: It sounds like an NVA road. Very good podcast.

[11:11] Rory O'Malley: It's a hot mic.

[11:12] Josh Gad: I can hear it. It's great. You're a hot Rory.

[11:15] Josh Gad: I can hear you.

[11:18] Josh Gad: Sorry, just going so poorly.

[11:21] Rory O'Malley: Um, no, I I think this is great that we're doing this, but I am worried it's gonna be it's definitely the most boring episode for me.

[11:30] Josh Gad: I already know what you're doing.

[11:31] Josh Gad: You know everything that I'm gonna say. I have I really I have no questions for you.

[11:37] Rory O'Malley: I understand your concerns about having me on because you do know all my secrets already.

[11:43] Josh Gad: I do, and it's and it's not fun for you because there's nothing to learn.

[11:47] Rory O'Malley: What I would say is this is more about me than it is about you.

[11:47] Josh Gad: There are some isn't it always Josh?

[11:52] Josh Gad: Yes. There are some things that I want to air out.

[11:54] Josh Gad: There are some things that I want to air out, and what better way to do that than on your okay?

[11:58] Rory O'Malley: And we're not gonna bring up college stories.

[12:00] Josh Gad: We not on this interview.

[12:01] Josh Gad: Literally every interview we've given together, or really separately, anytime you can put it in, you try to embarrass me with college stories, and I'm not gonna have it.

[12:10] Josh Gad: Your behavior in college was reprehensible, and I want the world to know what you did.

[12:14] Rory O'Malley: I did nothing. I was an upstanding collegiate all-star.

[12:21] Josh Gad: These are all lies. Do not trust me.

[12:23] Rory O'Malley: They can hear you. You don't have to get so close.

[12:26] Josh Gad: Um, all right. So this is called Living the Dream.

[12:29] Rory O'Malley: Josh. It's about the ups and downs of this crazy business that we're in.

[12:36] Rory O'Malley: And you've seen some high highs. Everyone knows about those high highs, but they don't know about your lows.

[12:43] Josh Gad: I've seen you in those lows.

[12:45] Josh Gad: Oh, yeah. Well, I this is actually a true story.

[12:48] Josh Gad: So when I was do you remember this for sure. Um about I I was I had a healthy ego coming out of college, uh, as you remember.

[12:58] Josh Gad: Uh which is a you know, sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing for me. It was a an awful thing.

[13:03] Josh Gad: Because I was just like, oh the world's gonna be handed to me on a silver platter. And do you remember what my dream was?

[13:09] Rory O'Malley: What did I want to do straight out of college?

[13:12] Josh Gad: Be on SNL.

[13:13] Rory O'Malley: SNL. That was it. Like one track the 25th anniversary anniversary on a Saturday night in Hammerschlag together.

[13:24] Josh Gad: It was just me and you. We were like, this is history, we have to watch this. Like we loved SNL, and you were like, I'm gonna be on it. I'm gonna be on it. And what was so interesting is they didn't share the same ambition. And I don't know who thinks to themselves, oh, let me go to a four-year conservatory program. That'll be a great outlet to getting onto Saturday Night Live. But I had a very one-track mind, and I was sort of bouncing back and forth between New York and Los Angeles. Remember?

[13:54] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[13:55] Josh Gad: And do you remember what you said to me?

[13:57] Rory O'Malley: I vaguely remember.

[13:58] Josh Gad: What did you say?

[13:59] Rory O'Malley: Because I can tell you verbatim.

[14:01] Josh Gad: Well, then just tell me.

[14:02] Rory O'Malley: You said, I thought you knew all the answers already. I thought that's why you didn't want me on this show.

[14:06] Josh Gad: Well, I, you know, they've heard me speak, Josh. You're the guest.

[14:09] Rory O'Malley: I'm being collect. You, Rory O'Malley, said to me, you gotta stop running away and find a home. You gotta, you gotta find consistency. You gotta make your route somewhere. That's what you said. And so I was offered this small play in Los Angeles, and our friend, our mutual friend Ryan Dixon was directing.

[14:33] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[14:33] Josh Gad: And um, he's like, come do this show, Josh. It'll be fun.

[14:38] Rory O'Malley: That's an excellent Ryan Dixon impression.

[14:41] Josh Gad: And so I did it, and I wound up meeting my future wife at the time. And it was the gateway to the consistency that would help define my career choices moving forward. Then there is one sort of constant in my life that I can mark as a way that I sort of got from point A to point B to point C, and that's Rory O'Malley.

[15:10] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[15:10] Josh Gad: Because you were also one of the first people who came up to me and said, I just saw this incredible show on Broadway.

[15:18] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[15:19] Josh Gad: Oh, I definitely still waiting on that commission.

[15:22] Rory O'Malley: And you said to me, you'll never see any of that.

[15:24] Josh Gad: And you said to me, um, you need to be seen for this.

[15:28] Rory O'Malley: I saw it in previews.

[15:30] Josh Gad: I got a call from you. I got a call from Ben Wexler, another, uh, but not Ben Wexler, Ben Peltison.

[15:37] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[15:38] Josh Gad: Uh, Ben Peltison and you, another Ben was another person we went to school with. And both of you said there's this role, William Barfay, that brilliant Dan Fogler is playing, and when he's done, you have to do it. And I was like, there's no way they're gonna see me for a musical.

[15:53] Rory O'Malley: I didn't say that you have to do it. I said you're the only person who can do it.

[15:58] Josh Gad: I was like, this man is giving an incredibly unique performance, and the only other person, I mean, I've never seen anyone attempt to give that kind of comedic performance in a show, and I was like, you're the only person I know.

[16:18] Rory O'Malley: Weird enough who's weird enough to be able to do it whose sensibility in front of an audience would go to that place, and you were, and you were right, and you were absolutely right. And you and I were blessed enough to do it together.

[16:33] Josh Gad: Right. I mean, what's the craziest thing that I still don't understand?

[16:38] Rory O'Malley: Well, up until Hamilton, you cheating bastard.

[16:41] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[16:41] Rory O'Malley: But up until then I was with Leslie, so then you were with Leslie.

[16:44] Josh Gad: That's right, yeah.

[16:45] Rory O'Malley: But we had done, or I've done every single Broadway show with you.

[16:50] Josh Gad: Yes, two.

[16:52] Rory O'Malley: All of them I did with you.

[16:54] Josh Gad: All two of them I did with you.

[16:56] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[16:56] Josh Gad: So the f— so Spelling Bee, you were in it on Broadway.

[17:00] Rory O'Malley: You made your Broadway stage debut.

[17:01] Josh Gad: I made my Broadway debut going on for me as Barfay.

[17:06] Rory O'Malley: And you killed it.

[17:07] Josh Gad: I heard.

[17:08] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah. I saw the show.

[17:09] Josh Gad: You weren't there. You were auditioning for 21.

[17:11] Rory O'Malley: Was I auditioning for 21?

[17:13] Josh Gad: Or was I auditioning for Avatar?

[17:17] Rory O'Malley: Avatar.

[17:18] Josh Gad: Avatar. Oh, so it was a failed audition.

[17:21] Rory O'Malley: That's a failed audition.

[17:22] Josh Gad: Oh, that's even better. They flew me out to LA to audition for James Cameron for Avatar. And I still remember the audition piece that I had to do. I was a translator for the Navi.

[17:37] Rory O'Malley: Okay.

[17:38] Josh Gad: And I had to say Auve Ut Aria Yohengehi Nauma Malir Tok C V E. And I remember that because I had to work with a linguist.

[17:46] Rory O'Malley: What?

[17:46] Josh Gad: To learn it.

[17:47] Rory O'Malley: And then that's gibberish.

[17:50] Josh Gad: Well, it's not gibberish, it's Navi. It's a real beautiful language that they speak on this other planet, Pandora.

[17:56] Rory O'Malley: All right.

[17:56] Josh Gad: And so, um, I did this and I was so confident because she's like, oh, James Cameron said to me, you know, what's so great about you when you do this movie is you come from the stage and so much of what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to imagine. And then, uh, I didn't get it. Suffice it to say.

[18:15] Rory O'Malley: And I imagine that they like tried to test out what I would look like as like a Navi, and I probably looked like a fat Smurf.

[18:25] Josh Gad: So wait, you were going to be a Navi?

[18:28] Rory O'Malley: I was, so I was gonna be Sam Worthington's best friend.

[18:32] Josh Gad: Okay.

[18:32] Rory O'Malley: Who they wound up casting like a tall skinny dude.

[18:35] Josh Gad: Right.

[18:36] Rory O'Malley: And I, I, I, and he, you know, they have to plug in and become like they wear those like Navi suits or whatever. And they become like Navi.

[18:44] Josh Gad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[18:45] Rory O'Malley: Oh, okay.

[18:46] Josh Gad: So I would have been one of those, but I have a feeling that they saw that merchandise sales would go way down if that were to happen.

[18:53] Rory O'Malley: Maybe you can get a job at the Disney Avatar Land.

[18:58] Josh Gad: Yeah, Avatar Land.

[19:00] Rory O'Malley: Maybe it's at Disney, right?

[19:01] Josh Gad: It's at Disney World.

[19:03] Rory O'Malley: Animal Kingdom.

[19:04] Josh Gad: Should I do it?

[19:05] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[19:07] Josh Gad: Walk around as like a—

[19:09] Rory O'Malley: We can definitely get you like a leotard and blue paint for the face.

[19:15] Josh Gad: There's gonna be like 12 more avatars, right?

[19:17] Rory O'Malley: You still have— No, I still have a shot.

[19:18] Josh Gad: You still have time. Once they make it a musical, I think you're in.

[19:22] Rory O'Malley: Um, it's actually they have made a musical. It's called Blue Man Group.

[19:25] Josh Gad: It actually exists.

[19:29] Rory O'Malley: Okay, okay, so we're in Spelling Bee.

[19:33] Josh Gad: Mm-hmm.

[19:33] Rory O'Malley: Which was crazy because that was 2005, 2006.

[19:40] Josh Gad: It was a long time ago.

[19:41] Rory O'Malley: And I almost quit the business.

[19:43] Josh Gad: Before?

[19:44] Rory O'Malley: I almost quit the business because not once you got Spelling Bee.

[19:47] Josh Gad: No, I almost quit right before Spelling Bee because I thought, you know what, maybe I'll go to law school. And my mom said to me, I called her up to tell her this, thinking she was gonna be so proud, and she started crying. And she said, I'm disappointed in you. And I said, why? And she said, you've spent fifteen years dreaming of doing this and only three years living out that dream. And I think that that's unfair to do to yourself. And like a month later, I got Spelling Bee.

[20:16] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[20:17] Josh Gad: So I mean, it's really because of you and my mother.

[20:20] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[20:22] Josh Gad: We are a team. Um, and we deserve all the credit. But it's funny because everyone has that story of being in that place where they're like, this is, it's too much. I'm giving this up. This is, it's overwhelming because when you're in that spot, and it can happen at any point in your career, your journey.

[20:46] Rory O'Malley: You know what? It's really good. I, and I'll tell you why. I, there's nothing to harden you more than rejection. And I say that as somebody who's been rejected as recently as last week for a role that I wanted. You know, you never stop dealing with rejection.

[21:06] Josh Gad: Right.

[21:07] Rory O'Malley: But at a certain point, you can contextualize it. And at a certain point, you're not training yourself for success. You're training yourself to ride the highs and the lows so that you find a happy medium where it's not so, um, manic.

[21:28] Josh Gad: Right.

[21:28] Rory O'Malley: You know? Every job or audition isn't life or death. It's just work. At a certain point, it becomes I'm blessed to be doing what I'm doing. Let me put this money away because who knows? I'm banging on the table, and Rory's telling me that that's completely— it sounds great when you draw at serious satellite radio, by the way, you can get away with any of these.

[21:50] Josh Gad: You can because they're not technology, that's okay.

[21:53] Rory O'Malley: Let's not get on my mic, is a beautiful thing. So you sort of train yourself to deal with that, and I didn't realize at the time, because I was getting rejected on pretty much a daily basis for things, you know, how useful and important that was.

[22:09] Josh Gad: Right. Well, I remember that period of time so well and what you were going through, not just because we were so close, but I remember, you know, I have always, and I'm only gonna say this once, I'm not gonna dwell on this. I always had a huge amount of respect for you and your talent.

[22:30] Rory O'Malley: The feeling is very mutual.

[22:32] Josh Gad: Okay, let's not get too crazy here. Um, I can do this podcast all the time now. I'll only say nice things if it's being recorded. Um, but I, you know, I was working in restaurants, I was struggling, I wasn't, you know, getting anywhere, and I wasn't even getting into the auditions to be rejected, you know. And I looked to you and saw that you were having a hard time, that you were, it was, you know, difficult for you. And I thought, you know, if Josh is having a hard time, it's okay that I'm having a hard time. And I mean that in the sense that I looked to your talent and to your what your career was going to be from the beginning, knowing that it was just a given, that it was going to be something that was realized, and that if it was gonna take time for this industry to figure out who you were and how to bring you into the business, then certainly was gonna take me some more time.

[23:38] Rory O'Malley: Thank that means the world coming from you.

[23:40] Josh Gad: And I'll say that what I think what you and I figured out early on, which I would always try to tell anybody who's young and who wants to do this, which is a very, it's a rough path.

[23:54] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[23:54] Josh Gad: Because you feel like you are told that so much before you get into it, yeah, and you don't know.

[23:54] Rory O'Malley: You don't know.

[24:03] Josh Gad: The one thing that I think you and I did really well was we created our own opportunities as often as we could, and I think that that is so important. Nobody's gonna serve you, you know, your career on a silver platter. It just doesn't happen. And so what you have to do is you have to generate, you know, what you've done so brilliantly with your cabarets, and you know, even early on when you came out here, you found the Trubies and you joined them and you theater company that I worked with. You made your own path. You made, uh, you know, you did Groundlings, both of us did.

[24:31] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah.

[24:38] Josh Gad: Which is a few years ago. Our Groundlings class failed enterprise by the way.

[24:41] Rory O'Malley: With Seth and—

[24:43] Josh Gad: Seth was in it, it was right. Me, you and Seth.

[24:45] Rory O'Malley: And we didn't, we didn't make it.

[24:46] Josh Gad: No, we didn't make it.

[24:50] Rory O'Malley: Not through not for the— through the first class, the first session. Like, we— it's not like we're—

[24:53] Josh Gad: No, there was no— we were never gonna join their like troop. They were like, oh no, you're, um, even with the money that you want to pay us, we won't accept it because you're gonna take our money.

[25:06] Rory O'Malley: Terrible.

[25:06] Josh Gad: Um, you know, but generating your own opportunities is everything. And I feel like, you know, you say yes, you just say yes.

[25:17] Rory O'Malley: Okay, well, that's the difference between me and you and what you're saying. I do say yes. I say yes to anything. You got a job, I'll take it.

[25:26] Josh Gad: Yes.

[25:26] Rory O'Malley: That's true. I don't think that— I think that I've gotten better at creating my own opportunities, but I think it's the scariest thing for me, and I have to push myself constantly. You, on the other hand, have written, produced, forced your way into so many things and situations, and it has always been so impressive to me.

[25:52] Josh Gad: And that's like when we were at college, you always every year did a show that you wrote, that you produced, that you had seniors when we were sophomores working on. You always— you're never afraid to extend what your ideas to a group of people around you, artists, and kind of make it a collaborative effort and say, hey guys, this is what we're doing now. And I've always been so impressed with that.

[26:24] Rory O'Malley: I always found myself all of a sudden I'm playing Dick Cheney in your—

[26:24] Josh Gad: You were the most brilliant Dick Cheney.

[26:31] Rory O'Malley: Well, do you remember your song?

[26:33] Josh Gad: I don't.

[26:34] Rory O'Malley: I don't either.

[26:35] Josh Gad: I remember I had multiple heart attacks.

[26:38] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, that's, um, you know, it again.

[26:44] Josh Gad: I felt like at Carnegie Mellon there was an amazing opportunity because of the sheer collection of talented people around us that we didn't necessarily have many opportunities to all work together on stuff. And I thought, what a brilliant collection of talent. What you know, we have all of these things at our disposal, and so you just pick up a typewriter or computer and a pen and paper, and you just start writing. Okay, sure. But what where I stop is I'm scared. The fear, the fear of this is whatever I'm writing, shouldn't be released to the public for God's sakes. Like, what is it in you that was so fearless from the get-go? I think obviously your high school experience and your speech career, you were a national champion how many times?

Three times, and it was um that definitely helped. I mean, I would say, you know, speech and debate was great because it's competitive, yeah. So you again you're dealing with rejection, you're dealing with trying to rise above a lot of talented people who are also vying for that same championship. And I think it in some ways that did harden me. Um I have an incredible fear of failure. You know, it is painful to do something that is not well received. It is painful to do something that falls flat on its face. I'll never forget my first time on the Daily Show. Um I was so terrified. And in hindsight, I can say I was absolutely awful. I mean, awful. And I was trying to be something that I wasn't. And I had two choices.

I could either give up and say, I'm never gonna be good enough, or I could learn from it, watch it, like a sports player would do. Watch it and say, how can I make this better? What could I do to make this better? And then the second opportunity I got, I said, I'm not gonna waste it. And I felt like it was the best thing I had ever done on the Daily Show to this day. And it was this gun piece that I got to do that was, you know, about um it was about guns as an investment. And I was just true to myself. I wasn't trying to be, you know, Steven Colbert. I wasn't trying to be, you know, any of these other guys. I was trying to be Josh Gad and do what I could do. And so I'm right there with you.

I'm always terrified. I'm always terrified that I'm gonna not be good enough. But I'm at a point, or I got to a point um along the way where I said to myself, okay, that could have been better. I'm gonna I I won't know if it'll fail, though, unless I try it. And that's where I'm at now. You know, I just I have to try. Some things work, some things don't. Right. You know, but you keep trying. Right. If you don't try, you're not gonna find out either way. Exactly. Yeah. But I feel like that's something that I've been able to learn and grow in. I just feel like you had that at 18. I really feel that. Like I and I I feel like it's a huge part of your success, is that even through that fear, you have the courage just to like walk right through it and not give a damn what anybody thinks about you artistically.

I think I think, you know, uh look, I think some of it is luck. I think I've been very fortunate. Uh you know, I think we both have been very fortunate. Right place, right time. That's a thing. Um, but I do think to a certain extent, you know, there's a fearlessness that you have to have. You just have to have. And I still get terrified. I still get so when I before I walk out onto a stage, I'm always so nervous. Right. I'm I don't want to screw this up. Me too. You know, and and it doesn't matter that I've done it hundreds, if not a over a thousand times, I'm still scared. That's part of the reason I haven't gotten back on a stage since Book of Mormon. Is I'm worried about the expectation of following up something like that.

You have literally been blessed with being in the biggest shows of all time, one by one by one. It's it's scary for me because I I don't know how to follow that up, and I desperately want to. And I know we always talk about wanting to do something again together. And and so that even though I am fearless to a certain extent, I'm not. I'm still always afraid. I'm still you know better than anyone. I'm an erotic mess. Right. And my neuroses are worn on my sleeve. Well, that's what makes it more impressive to me, though. I I you know, no one is without fear. It's if you step through it, if you can get to the other side of it and actually conquer it, and that's what makes it more impressive and courageous.

And I think you've I think you've always had that in a way that is just like it's it was astounding to me from a young age, and it's always inspired me, and I'm done complimenting. Okay, good, because it's making me really uncomfortable.

[32:35] Josh Gad: Okay, so you you go through the spelling B. You you have the avatar audition, doesn't go well. James Cameron does the old switcheroo with the tall, skinny guy. But you do get a movie 21, and all of a sudden you are in uh TV film world. Yeah, and what was that transition like? And what was interesting. So going from stage to TV and film was a um it was a a shock to the system in some ways because you know this. Carnegie, as amazing as it is, trains you for one thing really well. Uh but when it comes to film and television, I think it's changed since we went to school. When we went 70 years ago. When we went 70 years ago. But you know, it's it's a different beast altogether, right? So, you know, I didn't necessarily know what hitting my marks meant.

And like there, it's a lot of learning curves. So I sort of I fell into 21, which was a great success, and then I did a show called Back to You on TV, which um Kelsey Grammar, Patricia Heaton. Yeah, Ty Burrell, Fred Willard, the creative team behind Modern Family, it had every recipe for success. Yeah. Except for one thing. It wasn't a success. And well, it was also during the writer's strike. It was during the writer's strike, and within one week, I had my wedding, my show was canceled, and my grandmother died suddenly in her sleep. And again, I was back to square one. I felt like everything I had worked towards, everything that I had thought was now finally like good. It all had been up-ended.

And I was um sort of felt like I was back to square one. I also had kind of fallen into this not trap, but I had fallen into this proverbial, you know, typecasting that worried me a little bit of playing the best friend or that nerdy guy. Right. And I got nervous about that. And um, around that time, I got a phone call saying uh from Bobby Lopez, saying, I'm working on this new musical. Had you did you know him? So I'll tell you the story. So Bobby calls me up and he goes, I'm working on this new musical with the creators of South Park. Right. About Mormons. And I'm thinking to myself, Oh, they're adapting the Mormon episode of South Park. Yeah. And they want me to play Cartman or something.

Dum, dum, dum. And so I'm like, oh, that'll be fun. Bobby apparently heard this album that we did for Oh, oh yeah, uh Carol's first cure. Carol's for a cure. And he was blown away by my voice. And he's like, oh, this guy can really pull this off. He's incredible. Right. It was only later that he realized that the person he listened to was not me. It was an actor named Barrett Foa. And I was the one who was like doing a bad bono impression on the album instead. So thank you, Barrett, for uh getting me Book of Mormon. I owe you uh big time. Um but I got this call, and uh they send me the demo, and the first song comes on and it's hello, my name is and I'm like, oh, this is hilarious. Second song is two by two.

He goes, and I'm like, this is brilliant. Then he gets to a song called Vasadika Ilahai. And I listened to that song, and I remember stopping it and feeling sick to my stomach and calling up my agent and saying, I don't know if I can do this. And he said, Why? And he goes, because I'll get shot in the face. The things that they're saying about God are not he didn't tell you that that was on wow. No. So I was like, uh, this is not good. Because you can get away with it in animation, but live performers performing for a live audience. Yeah, that was a big. So it's a very big question. I show up to the first rehearsal, and guess who's there? And what Rory won't tell you because he's so modest, is Rory shows up to that first rehearsal with our other friend Will Taylor, who did the first one with us, who also went to Carnegie with us, and he was in the ensemble, and Trey and Matt immediately were so blown away by him that they created the role of Elder McKinley specifically for Rory O'Malley.

That role never existed, and then they saw Rory performing, and he had such a spark and charisma about him. And was so gay. And was so gay that they were like, we need to create an entire role. And and up until the very last um up until like the last week before we opened, they were still trying to shoehorn more and more songs in for Rory because they were Rory was so brilliant that they just kept trying to write more. We definitely had some like uh cut songs, cut songs, little diddies, yeah. Yeah, that's it. We we almost had a little ditty in there for for McKinley, but it it was it was a a crazy experience creatively because it was three years. We did three readings, two workshops, yeah, and every single one was like, This is unbelievably good.

And and but it still felt like, is this gonna happen? Is this gonna happen? And even if it does happen, it is anyone gonna see it. Like I you know that I was Oh, you you had the most pessimistic view of it. I was so pessimistic. I said I knew I had to do it. I knew it was beyond special. Yeah, we all knew that it was so good. But I thought it was gonna get picketed. Remember, I was terrified about security. Shock. Uh um, and so I was like, are we going to survive this if we do it? Um, and I also thought South Park fans will come, but will New York audiences will tourists come to the show. And I and I totally thought the same thing. You know, I always tell the story, like Gerald asked me how long I thought Book of Mormon would run before we opened, and I said, if we run a year, I will so happy.

And he was like, You're an idiot. It's gonna run forever. It's brilliant. I just I agree, and Trey and never bat an eye. No, they knew they were like, just trust us, it's gonna work. Well, and it's also, I think, because they certainly didn't write something that was like this will be the formula for something that will run forever. Right. They wrote like, oh wow, you mean there's no censors, and we can do whatever we want to tell this story and just make they're they're only concerned about storytelling, even more so, I think, than being funny.

[40:03] Josh Gad: We you know, we had the most incredible creative team behind that show. I mean, from going to the top from Anne Garofino, who produced it to Scott Rudin to you know, Bobby and Trey and Matt. They all complemented each other really well.

[40:22] Josh Gad: And I think that the special secret sauce is that each of them was the right person for the right job, all working in conjunction together. A big shout out has to go to Jason Moore as well, who directed the first two or three workshops readings, who I think really helped shape it to some extent and give it that heart that it has.

[40:46] Josh Gad: And then of course Casey Nicholaw comes in and does his brilliant thing with it, and really, you know, helped it. And well, I always say like he gave it a shot of adrenaline in its arm, and it really took off. It was, I mean, once we got to that final workshop, and Steven Sondheim was in the audience. Oh my god. For a workshop, you know, it was like undeniable that we were a part of something that was extraordinary.

[41:20] Josh Gad: It was extraordinary. Steven Arimas as well, huge contributor to podcasts. I know he has. I know everybody has for me. So you know, it was this turning point in all of our lives because it had answered that question that I had been searching for, which was now I found success, but how do I get out of this sort of bubble that I'm in of people coming to me for these same roles that just wasn't fun?

[41:53] Josh Gad: And Elder Cunningham was everything that I do, you know. But it is actually, it's funny, that's literally what the story is. You being coming out of the shell of just being the sidekick best friend and becoming the leader. Show us the story. It is the story.

[42:09] Josh Gad: I have to admit something. Okay. I don't know if I've told you this. I may have. I have based loosely two roles on Rory O'Malley in my career. This is true. I think you've said this recently. I did say it. And then somebody I don't know what you're talking about to you about it. No, you haven't. So you this is like lawsuit. This is lawsuit time.

[42:33] Josh Gad: I based the voice of Cunningham that sort of oh shucks Midwesterner kind of thing on you. On your impression of me. On my impression of you. That is correct. And the first time I sat down with the script and I was trying to figure out how who is this guy? What do I want him to sound like? And it, you know, I my impression of Rory was always, hi, I'm Rory. And yeah that kind of Cleveland.

[43:06] Josh Gad: And so I was absolutely plugged in to that. The second role that I based on you is completely based on you. Can you guess? No, I don't know what you're talking about. I'll give you a hint. Hi, I'm Olaf. No. Completely based on you. You there's nobody I know who's more pure.

[43:32] Josh Gad: Okay, well, now we're I'm definitely getting my lawyers involved. I mean, this is you should be grateful. I mean, look, I'm giving you, but I based Olaf on you. Okay. Because you have a purity about it. Is this about how pasty white I am? It is. It is about the fact that he you melt in heat and you're completely diswelled on it. But um, no, I when you know, when the director said to me, find the most joyous, innocent naivety that you can tap into. The image that came to me was you, and I was like, okay. The most naive person. The most naive person that I know. And and it really was um I'm very grateful because you you have helped me create probably my two most iconic roles.

[44:21] Rory O'Malley: That's wonderful. I'm so glad that you got those jobs that you were like, wow, who would be perfect for this? Rory. Okay, that's all right. No, I had to come clean. I appreciate that. That's that's a beautiful I'm sure you've based something on me, but is offensive.

[44:41] Josh Gad: Nothing. I wouldn't I just haven't really gotten into the like the darker roles yet. Yeah, you will. I will. You'll play you'll play it. Like a murderer. Uh really dark, neurotic, crazed killer. I can't wait. I can't wait to see what you do. Um so yeah, so I did Book of Mormon with you, and it changed our lives. Um we were suddenly everywhere. We were the, you know, tosa the town, and it was people coming up to us and being like, Oh, you know, what do you want to do? And and um, and with that kind of attack. What do you want to do next? Like, what do you want to do next?

[45:22] Josh Gad: Yeah, which is which is uh, you know, I when Nikki was on, again, another person who's on before you, we talked a lot about that pressure. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's it's that is that sounds great, but it's it's actually very tricky.

[45:37] Josh Gad: Yeah. And I made some wrong decisions. Um, you know, I I sort of did stuff that was I thought safe, or I thought was, you know, oh, let me get a paycheck, let me do that, instead of stuff that felt like it was coming from the right place. Like I was making choices that were going to help, you know, tell a certain story of what I wanted to do with my career.

[46:10] Rory O'Malley: Right. Um, and so, you know, I was very proud of the fact that I helped create a show called 1600 Pen, which you were brilliant on, and I was very proud of, you know, the fact that I did some of these movies, but at a certain point, I did them for the wrong reasons. I did I wasn't I wasn't after creating something that was creatively as appealing to me as it as I think it might otherwise have been, and that was a really valuable lesson, because when you do that, it backfires sometimes, and you know, it was and sometimes you'll go in with the best intentions, you know, and and you'll think this is really special, this is really different, and it still doesn't work, and that's okay.

[46:54] Josh Gad: But the motto of my life has always been take risks, and I felt like during that particular period of time after Mormon, which was at that point the biggest risk I had taken, because I turned down a lot of TV opportunities to do Book of Mormon for minimal paycheck, as you know. Um I stopped living by that motto and fell into a little bit of a rut where I wasn't necessarily content with some of the things that I was doing.

[47:26] Rory O'Malley: But it's so hard to come to the moment of a Book of Mormon or something that is like the world is being presented to you and not feel after knowing how hard and long it took for you to get there, not being like I have to jump at the first opportunity that comes along because I know how precious this moment is.

[47:49] Josh Gad: And that it can go away like that. Yeah, exactly. And and you know, that was really tricky. I mean, it w it was I would do things differently, probably. I don't regret anything. I had the best time on all the projects that I did, but it but I definitely um I definitely was a hamster in a wheel and I was chasing something that wasn't there.

[48:15] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Um so it, you know, so I went through that period, and um and then I was blessed enough to get um another incoming phone call. I had done a reading before Book of Mormon of a Disney project called Anna and the Snow Queen.

[48:38] Josh Gad: And at the time the music was by Alan Mencken, and it was a completely different story. They weren't Anna and Elsa were not sisters. In fact, the only consistency was probably this little snowman character that they had called Olaf, who was like a henchman for Elsa in the original script. That project goes away because Princess and the Frog wasn't the gigantic hit that they were hoping for, and so it sort of put this um it it they started to worry about making princess movies.

[49:14] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[49:15] Josh Gad: And then Tangled comes along and does incredibly well, and then once again, this Anna the Snow Queen project is greenlit. And so I get this call to do this, and at the time I'm supposed to do this other project for DreamWorks, right? And basically, they um Jeffrey Katzenberg um doesn't want me to do both for obvious reasons they're gonna come out within a month of each other, and my team says to me, you can't do both, it's one or the other, and you're doing this other project.

[49:52] Josh Gad: And so this is what I mean by taking chances. Right. So I said to them, I'm not willing to take no for an answer. And I called up Jeffrey Katzenberg myself, which was Okay, remember we were talking about the like fear thing? Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is when it this is when it comes in handy.

[50:09] Josh Gad: Okay. And I'm like, nobody's gonna defend myself better than me. And I really want to do this. Right. And so I called them up and I said, Look, this is something that I really want to do as a favor to Bobby Lopez and his wife Kristen, who are now writing the music. We just worked together in Book of Mormon. It is not the lead character, it is definitively a side character. Is there any way that you can let me do both? I would be forever grateful.

[50:37] Josh Gad: And he was generous enough to say, yes, there is a way. If you don't do publicity, you don't do marketing, I'll let you do it. And my heart sort of sank a little bit, but at the same time, I'm like, okay, it's it's something. And I went back to my agent and I told him this, and he goes, There's no way that they will agree to this at Disney. And God bless the incredible John Lasseter.

[51:04] Josh Gad: Wow. Because he took that challenge and he ran with it. And he said, All right, well, if that's the case, then we'll make it a thing where people will have to guess who played Olaf, and it'll be we'll make it a fun thing. And somehow convinced the lawyers at Disney to allow it to happen, and thank God, because the other project disappeared and Frozen became Frozen.

[51:25] Rory O'Malley: Um, and so it was a very um crazy and tumultuous experience, but ultimately wound up being one of the again, one of the great uh moments in my career.

[51:39] Josh Gad: So it but okay, okay, you know that that stresses me out just hearing that story. Like how when you get on the phone with Jeffrey Katzenberg, how do you find the composure or the self-worth to say we gotta do this?

[52:02] Josh Gad: And and and and because to me, as an actor, I think there are a thousand people they could get to do this, they don't need me. Where do you I mean obviously that builds as you you get more and more secure with yourself, but you know what I'm talking about?

[52:17] Rory O'Malley: Like you remember what happened when I was first offered Spelling Bee in San Francisco?

[52:21] Josh Gad: Yes, I do.

[52:23] Rory O'Malley: I turned it down, yes.

[52:25] Josh Gad: You turned down I'm crazy, so like I would not recommend this. Like I was not a non-working, I was not a working actor. And they offered me Spelling Bee in San Francisco, and I don't know where these balls came from, but I had the gall to say no.

[52:42] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[52:42] Josh Gad: Because I was like, if I'm not doing it on Broadway, this isn't the career path that I want. I don't want to travel and do a tour of that. It's not what I want to do.

[52:51] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[52:51] Josh Gad: And I was such an egotistical bitch for even thinking that I was worth the time of day to say no to them.

[53:01] Rory O'Malley: Well, it worked.

[53:02] Josh Gad: It did work, but that could have backfired greatly and almost. Because you know, that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm the yes guy. I would have said, yes, and you need me to hand out flyers in between shows.

[53:12] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[53:13] Josh Gad: Well, like that's that I at a certain point you just you stare opportunities in the eye and you say, look, what's the pros and cons of this?

[53:22] Josh Gad: And I always go through the pros and cons. And for me, the worst that could happen if I called up, you know, Jeffrey Katzenberg was he'll say no. Right. And that's where I was anyway. And sometimes it's worth the risk, and sometimes it's worth the shot. And in that case, it was. And again, it could have backfired. Yeah. But you know, life comes at you fast, and you just have to make a decision and you have to allow yourself to put yourself in a situation where you know it could fail. Right? Right. And I don't again, I think the more I do this, the more at peace I am with failing. The more I'm willing to put myself out there knowing that I could fall flat on my face. Right. Um and so that was one of those things where I was like, let me weigh it out.

And there weren't it couldn't I I was sitting on a no anyway. So it wasn't like it's gonna, you know, if I got another no, it's gonna make a difference. It's not gonna make it worse, but you do the the movie Frozen, and it turns into not just a hit, but something that revitalizes an entire medium of Disney animated.

[54:45] Rory O'Malley: Well, I don't know about that. I mean it uh it's tangled had come out before recording.

[54:50] Josh Gad: Yeah, but but it yes, those are big movies, but like it look, it's it was and is a like Mormon, a pop cultural phenomenon.

[55:01] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, that can't be disputed, and with that, it is always a very strange thing, especially walking down the street and seeing kids recognize you for voice work that you've done. It's just very surreal, or walking through Disneyland, right?

[55:19] Josh Gad: Which I've done with you, which I was like, oh, please, Josh, no one's gonna know that it's you, and then it was like swarm.

[55:27] Rory O'Malley: No, it's surreal, and and you know, it's something that I pinch myself that I get to to be that uh for so many kids because you know what Disney meant to me as a kid.

[55:38] Josh Gad: Yes, you had a framed letter from Michael Eisner that you got on your bar mitzvah on our wall in our college dorm room, yeah.

[55:46] Josh Gad: I mean, like I was I what I'm always been amazed by with the company and specifically with Walt Disney, who uh is one of my idols, and I really do believe that John Lassiter is is the reincarnation of that man, it's this ability to cross over into so many different generations.

[56:15] Josh Gad: Cross over and have such appeal to people who are 90, to people who are two, to people who don't speak any English, to people who only speak English. Um, you know, to people who uh suffer from you know incredible um disabilities to people who are uh you know successful athletes. There isn't anyone in the world that you can look at and say, oh, I don't know or love Mickey Mouse.

[56:47] Rory O'Malley: I don't and there's something about that that's very unique, and uh to be a part of that legacy uh is um something I'm incredibly proud of because again, my grandparents grew up as kids watching Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. My mother grew up as a kid watching the jungle book. I grew up as a kid watching The Little Mermaid, my kids are growing up watching Frozen, and so these touchstones become seminal moments in all of our lives.

[57:19] Josh Gad: Right. And I think that that's part of what has been um the appeal for so long is there aren't many companies that for a hundred years have been capturing the imagination of human being on the planet, yeah.

[57:39] Josh Gad: It's no, it's remarkable, it really is, and I think that that letter on your wall might be which is so embarrassing. I mean, that really is uh it's it's another part of the story that I don't think people realize, which makes me so happy for you that you are getting to be a part of Disney in this way.

[58:02] Rory O'Malley: And clearly they love you.

[58:03] Josh Gad: It's mutual.

[58:05] Josh Gad: Um so you go through that experience of Frozen, and so was that was there another like what's how do I top this?

[58:17] Josh Gad: Is this even your woman?

[58:18] Josh Gad: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, so after Frozen, it becomes there's oh my god, uh you know, I hit the jackpot again, and now I have to make the right decisions.

[58:29] Josh Gad: Um but I I what I didn't want to have happen was to fall into r you know repetition.

[58:36] Josh Gad: So I was lucky enough to read this incredible script called The Wedding Ringer um by Jeremy Gerelick, starring Kevin Hart.

[58:44] Josh Gad: And I was obsessed with Kevin, and and um I thought, you know, that what a great way to sort of venture out and do like an R-rated comedy, something people wouldn't necessarily um think of me for.

[58:56] Rory O'Malley: And so um was this character based on you?

[59:00] Josh Gad: No, that character was not based on you.

[59:02] Rory O'Malley: Okay.

[59:02] Josh Gad: Sorry.

[59:03] Rory O'Malley: It's alright.

[59:05] Josh Gad: Not all of them will be based on you, right?

[59:08] Josh Gad: So every three years I'll base one.

[59:10] Josh Gad: So only the ones that are cultural phenomenons.

[59:15] Josh Gad: So I um I did this movie, and then, you know, again, I started getting um a lot of comedy um opportunities, pixels and you know, different stuff.

[59:28] Josh Gad: And and I was once again, I was very grateful for that opportunity and thrilled that I got to play with um people who frankly I I admire the hell out of from Adam Sandler, who we grew up watching too.

[59:43] Josh Gad: Um Kevin. But again, I started to feel like I was falling into this, you know, trap of doing the same thing again and again.

[59:52] Josh Gad: And so one day I I, you know, sort of said to my team, I wanna shake things up a little bit. I wanna I I want the stuff that I'm doing to really challenge me.

[1:00:06] Josh Gad: Because I feel like a lot of this I'm so grateful to do, and I want to keep doing it. But I I'm worried that I'm gonna bore my audience because I'm doing the same thing over and over.

[1:00:20] Josh Gad: And so I started reading a lot of interesting scripts. Um, I, you know, I was lucky enough to be um go going back to even Beauty and the Beast, I was lucky enough to be offered Beauty and the Beast, and it was a great opportunity to sort of marry um these different skill sets that I did, which I hadn't been able to.

[1:00:39] Rory O'Malley: We don't get many opportunities to do a live-action musical.

[1:00:42] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:00:42] Rory O'Malley: You've done one, you know, and Dream Girls.

[1:00:44] Josh Gad: I I have never had the opportunity to do it.

[1:00:48] Josh Gad: So, you know, Beauty and the Beast came along, um, this small uh drama called Um Marshall, which is coming out this this fall, Murder on the ORIENT EXPRESS, and you know, along the way I did movies like Thanks for Sharing and Love and Other.

[1:01:03] Rory O'Malley: Ladies and gentlemen, I just want you to know that when you hear that banging, it's not your ear drive out your car.

[1:01:09] Josh Gad: I'm sorry.

[1:01:10] Josh Gad: Josh is very uh animated in real life as well, and he needs to keep using his hands.

[1:01:16] Josh Gad: I have a gavel in my hand, which I'm banging right now.

[1:01:20] Josh Gad: So, you know, it was for me. I'm at this new phase in my career where while I'm still doing the stuff that I've always done and you know, be continuing to bring animated characters to life and do comedies.

[1:01:36] Josh Gad: Um I'm looking for opportunities to to challenge myself, challenge my audiences, and and you know, and I'm desperate to get back and do the stage.

[1:01:45] Josh Gad: I'm desperate to do, you know, what you're doing again.

[1:01:51] Rory O'Malley: Because I really miss it.

[1:01:52] Josh Gad: I really do.

[1:01:54] Josh Gad: Um isn't it it's it's amazing to me, and I I you know, like that, you know, you, Andrew, a bunch of folks that I know who've been in Broadway and who've had this tremendous success in TV and film, the enthusiasm and want to go back to Broadway or be back on stage.

[1:02:15] Rory O'Malley: Obviously, I get it.

[1:02:16] Josh Gad: I love being on stage, but I feel like it it's it actually fuels me more being in this show and and being a part of this to just enjoy every second of it because everyone who's away from it for a period of time wants to be back, wants to be there.

[1:02:34] Josh Gad: And of course, you know, everyone on Broadway wants to be able to have a TV and film career and to be able because honestly, that's a better way that's a way to have a better Broadway career, is if you're in a TV or or film show.

[1:02:48] Rory O'Malley: Um but it's the the draw is so strong for you for for and for somebody else. Why why do you think that is?

[1:02:56] Josh Gad: Well, I there's nothing like it.

[1:02:58] Josh Gad: I mean, there's nothing it's it is the most gratifying. It's the most energetic, it's the most challenging, it's everything that you know we have trained for, and when you spend so much of your life um on a stage, right?

[1:03:28] Josh Gad: Getting off that stage is um you go through withdrawal, you really do, and for me, there's nothing as pure, there's nothing as um energizing, like I said, as being on a stage and sharing that intimacy with an audience, going on that journey together.

[1:03:51] Josh Gad: Um, you see, I have a stack over there. We're recording this in my office. There's hundreds of playbills of different shows that I've been fortunate to see, and every one of those experiences as an audience member was as profound for me as I'm sure it was enjoyable for the performer themselves, right?

[1:04:13] Josh Gad: And so to be a part of that relationship, that give and take is something that I I desperately long for again.

[1:04:22] Josh Gad: Uh and you know, I know that eventually I I will get back, but it's it's five years going on five years now since I've put my foot on a stage, it's getting wow, I hardened hard, right?

[1:04:34] Rory O'Malley: Four or five years.

[1:04:35] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[1:04:36] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[1:04:36] Rory O'Malley: Well, I mean, we we opened six Mormon was the last time you were on a stage.

[1:04:40] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[1:04:40] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:04:41] Josh Gad: Yeah, you left in summer of 2012.

[1:04:47] Rory O'Malley: So it'll be five years.

[1:04:48] Josh Gad: It'll be five years.

[1:04:49] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[1:04:50] Josh Gad: Wow.

[1:04:51] Josh Gad: Producers, if you're listening, please call me.

[1:04:55] Josh Gad: I'm ready.

[1:04:56] Rory O'Malley: Oh, please.

[1:04:56] Josh Gad: I'm ready.

[1:04:58] Josh Gad: They the producers are calling.

[1:05:00] Josh Gad: I'm ready.

[1:05:01] Josh Gad: You know, like, I mean, I think I think that the hard part is is that when you do something like Book of Mormon, how do you follow how do you follow that up?

[1:05:09] Rory O'Malley: Well, apparently, if you're you or Andrew, you do Hamilton.

[1:05:12] Josh Gad: Well, I didn't do a show of alternative but I didn't.

[1:05:15] Josh Gad: I mean, the first the first things I did was two off Broadway shows, A Little Miss Sunshine and Nobody Loves You at Second Stage, which was like in the in that first like six months after I left the show, which was great because it was kind of like under the radar and not too much.

[1:05:31] Rory O'Malley: Uh what was it?

[1:05:33] Josh Gad: Was it um two gentlemen?

[1:05:35] Rory O'Malley: What did you do at Little Comedy of Errors?

[1:05:37] Josh Gad: Yes.

[1:05:38] Josh Gad: But you were incredible in.

[1:05:39] Rory O'Malley: Thank you.

[1:05:39] Josh Gad: Yeah, no, I mean I was able to do a lot of uh other theater off of Broadway.

[1:05:46] Josh Gad: Um I think that that I always talk end up talking about nerds, that that whole thing.

[1:05:54] Josh Gad: And I I actually I should talk about it with you because you were there when I got to eat.

[1:06:00] Josh Gad: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the I can I'm not in Hamilton if I'm not in accepting nerds, yeah.

[1:06:06] Josh Gad: So it was January 2nd of 2016, and you and I were in a Starbucks.

[1:06:16] Josh Gad: We were talking about me doing, yeah, working on a show that I was writing about uh singing musicals in my basement as a kid, which I ended up doing at 3 last year.

[1:06:27] Josh Gad: And uh I get an email on a Friday saying, Hey, this is an offer for you to play Bill Gates.

[1:06:37] Josh Gad: And what did I say?

[1:06:38] Josh Gad: And you flipped out.

[1:06:41] Josh Gad: I said it, I don't think this is real.

[1:06:43] Josh Gad: I said, I never even I didn't even know this was coming to Broadway.

[1:06:46] Rory O'Malley: And you were like, there was an article in Deadline.

[1:06:49] Josh Gad: Yeah, I read about it. You've got to do this.

[1:06:51] Rory O'Malley: You freaked out.

[1:06:53] Josh Gad: I did. And I couldn't stop laughing. And remember, I was like, I have to respond back to the director about getting the script and the music.

[1:07:02] Rory O'Malley: And you wrote the email.

[1:07:05] Josh Gad: Mm-hmm. Because I was too nervous to write the email.

[1:07:10] Rory O'Malley: That's me with Jeffrey Katzenberg. I can't even, I get an offer or something, and I'm too nervous to even respond, reply on an email.

[1:07:18] Josh Gad: I knew that it was the perfect marriage. And I was like, and it really does all work out brilliantly. Like, you know, you don't do that show, you never get Hamilton.

[1:07:31] Rory O'Malley: No, and it's funny because it almost just became a huge audition for me.

[1:07:35] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:07:35] Rory O'Malley: To show what I could, how, you know, because as much as I loved getting to do Elder McKinley, it really was not even a song, it was like a portion of a song, you know, leading a big group number. And so to get to lead a show and have a casting director, Bethany Knox from Telsey cast Nerds, and then see me do a run-through the day after we're canceled. That's why she called me two days later to be in Hamilton.

[1:08:01] Josh Gad: That's crazy.

[1:08:02] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it's insane. And you were definitely the person who not forced me to do Nerds, but you have a way of like giving your opinion that is so black and white, like there's no, it's you were like, you would be an idiot not to do this.

[1:08:21] Josh Gad: It's all hyperbole.

[1:08:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. When we graduated and I told you that I was moving to Los Angeles, you said you are an idiot.

[1:08:31] Josh Gad: I was right.

[1:08:33] Rory O'Malley: I was right so mad at you.

[1:08:33] Josh Gad: I was right.

[1:08:34] Rory O'Malley: You were not right. I got my equity card in LA.

[1:08:37] Josh Gad: I know that I'm here living in LA now because I had those first few years out of college learning what it was. And that's how I met Gary Marshall, worked at that theater for years.

[1:08:49] Rory O'Malley: You were wrong.

[1:08:50] Josh Gad: I was right. I still contend that you would have hit started much earlier had you listened to me.

[1:08:58] Rory O'Malley: Um, but I mean, it's definitely crazy that we were sitting in a Starbucks when that happened. So that's the other thing that I want to say, by the way, about living the dream. You can't live the dream alone.

[1:09:13] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:09:17] Rory O'Malley: Friendship is, I think, the most important thing because you need people to fall on, you need shoulders to cry on, and you know, bodies to celebrate with, and people who understand, and people who understand and through thick and thin, you know, you and I have always been in each other's lives during the greatest ups and the lowest downs.

[1:09:51] Josh Gad: You know, and I think that that is so important. And I think that a group that you can surround yourself with of people who share the same, you know, pitfalls and high moments, is it's that's as important as any of the other stuff.

[1:10:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Well, I mean, and I think that it takes a little while to get past and learn how the reality is that other people's success is not your failure. Other people's journey is not your failure, but you need to be beside them and with them when—what is that? That's my jingle. Why is it to tell you? It's that's my jingle. So like, it's, I, it's all being recorded on the garage band and it just started to go off. It's basically like telling me it's been an hour, so it just went off in my headset.

[1:10:14] Josh Gad: What is that? I just don't understand why somebody's singing in your headphones.

[1:10:14] Rory O'Malley: Someone, it's me. No, I was gonna say that you learn that other people's success is not your failure and also that you need to be there for your friends not just for their downtimes and their failures, but you need to actually be a support system through their success.

[1:11:18] Josh Gad: Oh yeah, that some of my highest points is when I've needed my friends, when I've needed Gerald, when I've needed because it—the fear and the, and the you can feel a little alienated or like, I don't know, it's just, it's scary.

[1:11:35] Rory O'Malley: It is scary. And there's nothing like the validation of the people you know closest or the criticism of the people you know closest. You know, you want that honesty. I always want you to tell me, you know, you could do better or you're coasting, you know, whether it's you or Seth or whoever is in my life, especially Ida, my wife, she wastes no time telling me when I suck. But it's important to remind people of what they can do, what they are capable of, where what who they are and and why they're in it.

[1:12:12] Josh Gad: Yeah, it's tough. It gets easier in a lot of ways as you go, but it also gets more complicated. You know, as you know, before we end here is like I think that another thing that I'll say that's nice is you have so hard.

[1:12:30] Rory O'Malley: It's very hard.

[1:12:31] Josh Gad: I know, I can't see it. You've created this wonderful family. And you know, you got married in 2008.

[1:12:43] Rory O'Malley: So you've been married for a while. You have two beautiful daughters who you know I'm obsessed with, who are just the most amazing people, and you're a wonderful dad, a great husband, and that's always been something that's more impressive and inspiring to me way more than anything you've done professionally.

[1:13:06] Josh Gad: And I think, you know, especially for a podcast like this, that the thing that scared me most when I got out of school and realized that I was how difficult it was gonna be as an actor wasn't that I wasn't gonna be able to live my dream as a performer being on stage. It was, oh my God, am I gonna be able to have a family? Am I gonna be able to afford to raise a child and do this? Like that just seemed crazy to me.

[1:13:39] Rory O'Malley: Um, how do you feel like you were able to? I mean, obviously, you know, the more success you have, the easier it is. But really, when you got married and we, you know, there were things happening, but it's scary always, right?

[1:13:52] Josh Gad: It's always scary, and it's especially like I think that with what we do, there's always this fear. And as Gerald and I are in this, you know, moment in time where we really want to start a family, I feel pretty secure, but I'm like, my God, I'm an actor. This is crazy that I'm gonna bring a child into my home, and how am I going to provide for it till it's 18 and beyond? Never stops being scary.

[1:14:21] Rory O'Malley: Um, you know, I think that a bigger factor than I ever considered, you know, nobody can teach you that in school, but one of the biggest factors in making decisions in your life becomes your kids.

[1:14:37] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:14:38] Rory O'Malley: And how do you, how will your decisions affect them? You know, I was just away for three months shooting a movie in England.

[1:14:48] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:14:48] Rory O'Malley: It's not easy, you know, and it takes a toll. And so it's about balance. But I think in general, you know, you go where the best opportunities are, and you have to work with what you got and figure out then I'll fly home on the weekends, or you know, you're here right now in Los Angeles, knowing full well that you gotta get back on a plane tomorrow to do a show tomorrow night. I'm sure that takes a toll physically.

[1:15:15] Josh Gad: And so it's you make those commitments, you make those sacrifices in some cases because you have to balance it.

[1:15:26] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:15:27] Josh Gad: Yeah.

[1:15:28] Rory O'Malley: And it's worth it. Like it's what it's all for. I feel like at the end of the day, I'm always drawn to people in our business who have a really strong family connection because I think that they are not just, they're not just happier, but they have better careers because they're choosing things out of love and for the right reasons.

[1:15:56] Josh Gad: And I don't know. I think that that has been a part of your success is that you know what's most important in life. And I think that comes across to audiences that you are a joyful person, and that you—the kid who loves Disney and understands the power of human connection in that way from a young age is someone who can communicate to an audience and make them laugh.

[1:16:28] Rory O'Malley: I was so proud to watch you. I was by myself watching Beauty and the Beast, and the belly laughs that you were getting in that theater, and to think that you know that kid who had the Michael Eisner letter on his wall was getting the biggest laughs in a Disney major motion picture. I don't know. It's crazy. And I think that hopefully you can feel that more because I know when you're in it, it's hard to like really feel it. Hopefully, through my eyes and through my experience, you can feel that more.

[1:17:09] Josh Gad: And that's, it never, I never stopped pinching myself, as I'm sure you do too.

[1:17:16] Rory O'Malley: I mean, I remember calling you one night when Obama came to see your show and just being like, the president of the United States of America at the time. Won't make any political comments right now, but the president of the United States came to see your show.

[1:17:35] Josh Gad: Well, Hillary came.

[1:17:37] Rory O'Malley: And twice.

[1:17:38] Josh Gad: Hillary came.

[1:17:39] Rory O'Malley: And everybody Obama didn't come when I was there.

[1:17:42] Josh Gad: Uh, well then I, you called Leslie?

[1:17:46] Rory O'Malley: Then I called Leslie.

[1:17:48] Josh Gad: I confuse you guys so much.

[1:17:50] Rory O'Malley: I know.

[1:17:50] Josh Gad: We look a lot alike.

[1:17:51] Rory O'Malley: But who was it that came? Or Beyoncé? Somebody came when you were there that I was like, how, like you're meeting the craziest people in the world.

[1:18:01] Josh Gad: You called me a few times when people were coming.

[1:18:06] Rory O'Malley: Paul McCartney.

[1:18:06] Josh Gad: Paul McCartney. I think that's you that got a call from you. But like you're living the dream. Like we are living the dream.

[1:18:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:18:14] Josh Gad: And I'm disappointed that you didn't meet Obama now.

[1:18:17] Rory O'Malley: I'm actually—You are.

[1:18:18] Josh Gad: I actually feel like I lost a little respect.

[1:18:21] Rory O'Malley: I actually joined the cast a week after they all got to go to the White House.

[1:18:25] Josh Gad: Right.

[1:18:26] Rory O'Malley: He came like three times too.

[1:18:28] Josh Gad: That's gotta suck, Rory.

[1:18:29] Rory O'Malley: I know he's gonna go back now that I'm not there. I'm gonna get him to come to the LA production.

[1:18:37] Josh Gad: I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud that we got to take this journey together. And I love that you finally put me on this podcast.

[1:18:45] Rory O'Malley: I'm, but only what episode is this?

[1:18:48] Josh Gad: This is the final episode of, uh, no, it is, I don't know, I don't know what it's probably like 22.

[1:19:01] Rory O'Malley: It's only took 22.

[1:19:02] Josh Gad: Only 22. That's where you about where you are on my list of people.

[1:19:08] Rory O'Malley: Um, I'm really glad that you not only that you did it, but that you want to do it. Obviously, Josh, you were one of the first people that I wanted to talk to. But I want to, I this is also something that I'm learning how to do is talk to people and how to listen to them and like what this is, and you know, I knew that you were someone who was gonna be great, and it clearly was a very interesting conversation, and I'd love to have another one again checking in a year.

[1:19:37] Josh Gad: Absolutely, I'd love that and see how you're doing.

[1:19:40] Rory O'Malley: It's gonna be called Living the Nightmare.

[1:19:45] Josh Gad: Yeah, I'll have to come up with a new jingle.

[1:19:47] Rory O'Malley: All right, love you.

[1:19:47] Josh Gad: Love you. Audition side job, swim in upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.