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[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 72 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:04] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swim and upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:10] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here. Thank you so much for listening to Living the Dream. Thank you for downloading. Thank you, my friends.

[0:19] Rory O'Malley: So belt the vote. We're still belting that vote, folks. It is still possible for many of you to register before the November 6th election.

[0:30] Rory O'Malley: Some of the voter registration deadlines are passed in states, but um, like in California, it's October 22nd. So go to BeltThevote.org and register to vote in the election November 6th. So important that the entire theater community and all of us make our voice heard. Um, so please do that. Thank you so much.

[0:54] Rory O'Malley: And just a reminder, we still have a very exciting giveaway happening right now. It's the $100 question. You can win the chance to ask Leslie Margarita, my upcoming guest, a question over the phone. We'll have you call into the show when she's on, and you'll also get $100 towards Gold Star to make a purchase of tickets on our sponsor's website.

[1:21] Rory O'Malley: All you have to do is go to Goldstar.com's Facebook page and make a comment of what question you will ask Leslie in the post about our giveaway. So go ahead and do that, and we'll pick a winner and you'll get to ask Leslie a question. Won't that be fun? We're getting interactive here at Living the Dream.

[1:44] Rory O'Malley: Um, so my guest today is Jason Michael Snow, a good buddy of mine. We were in The Book of Mormon together, and uh we were both a part of the beginning of that show, and I love getting to reminisce with people about how that show came about and how it's affected our lives and the ups and downs since we've been in that show.

[2:11] Rory O'Malley: I think that Jason has a really incredible story, and uh he's out in Los Angeles as I am right now, working in um TV and film and writing like crazy. He's a really incredible guy, and uh I think you'll enjoy this conversation. Here is Jason Michael Snow.

[2:31] Rory O'Malley: Hi, Jason.

[2:31] Jason Michael Snow: Hi, Rory.

[2:32] Rory O'Malley: Welcome to Living the Dream.

[2:34] Jason Michael Snow: This is it's happening. I feel like I'm living a dream currently.

[2:37] Rory O'Malley: You are great. I mean, it's all right, but um, it's good to have you on the podcast, bud.

[2:43] Jason Michael Snow: Thanks, man. We've known each other for a long time now.

[2:46] Rory O'Malley: But I was trying to remember when we first met. Was it at the first reading that we both did of The Book of Mormon?

[2:52] Jason Michael Snow: It was the summer of 2009 when we did the last reading at the Vineyard Theater.

[2:58] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[2:59] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[2:59] Rory O'Malley: Okay. Is that when you joined?

[3:01] Jason Michael Snow: That's when I joined.

[3:02] Rory O'Malley: Okay. Yeah. You guys had done, I think, one reading of the full version before that, and then a reading of act one before that.

[3:08] Jason Michael Snow: Yes.

[3:08] Rory O'Malley: And I jumped in in the second reading of both acts.

[3:11] Jason Michael Snow: Okay, and then we became mission companions.

[3:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, we did. At least in the first.

[3:15] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[3:16] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, two by two. We were paired up. I was Elder Green.

[3:20] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and I was elder. I had dumb names. It was either Marshall Cross or Jonah Davis.

[3:26] Jason Michael Snow: Oh I forget what one of them I was what I was in Uganda and the other one I was the one I was that we were in. I think Japan.

[3:33] Rory O'Malley: Now, you know, like there are several people who know exactly the answer to this listening. And I think that you must have been Davis in the beginning. Wasn't Cross like in Uganda?

[3:43] Jason Michael Snow: I don't remember. I honestly don't remember.

[3:45] Rory O'Malley: Wow. How long has it been since we how when did you leave the show?

[3:48] Jason Michael Snow: 2014.

[3:50] Rory O'Malley: So it'll be five years.

[3:51] Jason Michael Snow: This five years.

[3:52] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I left like the year before. So it'll be six years.

[3:54] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[3:55] Rory O'Malley: What did you go and do right after?

[3:58] Jason Michael Snow: Um, I did uh uh two off-Broadway shows at second stage.

[4:05] Rory O'Malley: Right, Little Miss Sunshine.

[4:07] Jason Michael Snow: And that um nobody loves you.

[4:08] Rory O'Malley: Right, right, right, right, right, right.

[4:10] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, both old globe, right?

[4:13] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[4:14] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. No, wait, I think Little Miss Sunshine was La Jolla.

[4:18] Rory O'Malley: La Jolla.

[4:19] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[4:19] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[4:19] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[4:19] Rory O'Malley: But both San Diego.

[4:21] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, I didn't do either of them there. I just did them at second stage. I literally was at second stage for like six months after both.

[4:27] Jason Michael Snow: So Adina Menzel.

[4:29] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah.

[4:29] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not gonna do the out of town. I'll do it when it comes to New York.

[4:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

[4:33] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. I got the uh Edina Menzel writer. Um so let's let's let's talk a little bit about um what you're doing right now. You have a web series out.

[4:44] Rory O'Malley: We're in Los Angeles, we're both Broadway musical theater, gays living up life here in sunny California, sunny California.

[4:53] Jason Michael Snow: Although today it's windy California, it's very windy.

[4:55] Rory O'Malley: Is that the Santa Annas?

[4:56] Jason Michael Snow: I think they call them Santa Annas.

[4:58] Rory O'Malley: I think that's what they call it. Um and the power's out, like blocks from here.

[5:02] Jason Michael Snow: And all those all the stoplights are out.

[5:03] Rory O'Malley: I know.

[5:04] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and people are being very polite.

[5:05] Rory O'Malley: They are which I'm I'm very, very proud of.

[5:08] Jason Michael Snow: How many fights would break out in New York City?

[5:11] Rory O'Malley: Yes. If blocks. And everyone here is just kind of like, no, no, no, you were here first. You guys go ahead through the light, go ahead.

[5:16] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. And you're like, oh, thank thank you.

[5:18] Rory O'Malley: Thank you. Can you can we maybe keep this?

[5:21] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. When the power comes back on?

[5:22] Rory O'Malley: I know. No, everyone was very, very uh decent to each other.

[5:26] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, it was great. It's nice, but um, it's a it's a big change for uh us folks from the theater community in New York to come out to Los Angeles because we have such a sense of community in New York, and it's hard to even know where anyone is in LA.

[5:41] Rory O'Malley: And I just feel here too. Well, what I say when when people ask me the difference, my thoughts on the difference between New York and LA is that in New York, you're all on only a handful of subway lines that all converge into one location, usually, right? Like if you're in theater, you're always only going to like 42nd to 54th Street.

[6:02] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[6:02] Rory O'Malley: And it's that small little pocket of the world. Right. And so when you're there, you're always gonna, and everyone's always kind of filing in from their various locations to get to that little like grid.

[6:12] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[6:12] Rory O'Malley: And you're always gonna run into someone you know or or someone that you have a relationship with or a friend of a friend, and then plans get made, and then more plans get made, and it just feels so social because of that.

[6:22] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[6:22] Rory O'Malley: And I also think because your your mode of transportation is a social mode of transportation rather than being in your car.

[6:27] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[6:28] Rory O'Malley: And here, I just feel like the city isn't trained. I don't know, you know, well, no, no pun intended, or all pun's intended. They're not trained to to be social uh in like this, you know, spur of the moment way.

[6:43] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[6:44] Rory O'Malley: And so, you know, you don't see people on the street randomly and be like, hey, what are you doing later? Oh, nothing. Great, let's all go out for dinner. Like, let's get a group together.

[6:50] Jason Michael Snow: Yes.

[6:50] Rory O'Malley: Well, you also just don't see people on the street.

[6:52] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[6:53] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. You just don't bump into anything. You have to be very active and motivated to see someone. So a lot of times it's hard to meet the right group of people out here. Um, and I think that's really hard for a lot of New York folks to deal with.

[7:11] Jason Michael Snow: I mean, have you had other friends who've come out here?

[7:14] Rory O'Malley: I was out in LA first, so I had like my group of LA people and then went to New York. And I feel like Did you come back to that group of people? Were they like were they all kind of still here when you got back?

[7:24] Jason Michael Snow: Yes, some of my closest friends still to this day. And and I feel it's kind of like where I had to prove myself that I can make something happen and work um, you know, and was completely broke and trying to get ahead in this business.

[7:37] Jason Michael Snow: And then in New York, you have that community that is just already there, and you just kind of like check in and they're like, oh, welcome. Okay, yeah, get in line, and here's your audition at equity. You know, like it's exactly you kind of know.

[7:50] Rory O'Malley: Actually, I remember coming up with a game night. There was a group of us who would go to these non-equity auditions and like do the the open calls.

[7:56] Jason Michael Snow: Oh, yeah.

[7:57] Rory O'Malley: And we would you'd be sitting there with all these other people who aren't part of the union and you're just sitting there all day, and you'd be like, What are you guys doing later? And we this group of us all eventually like went to the same catering company to like survive.

[8:10] Jason Michael Snow: And then we all kind of started like a little game night, and then half of them ended up in Mormon.

[8:15] Rory O'Malley: You're kidding.

[8:15] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, on the tour.

[8:16] Rory O'Malley: Like Kevin Murphy is one of them.

[8:17] Jason Michael Snow: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[8:18] Rory O'Malley: That's so crazy.

[8:19] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and we I mean, we used to like we were neighbors in Astoria. We would go to open calls together and we catered together. It's it's also like just a common thing that when you're going on auditions, you're always with the same group of guys or people who are very similar to you because you're trying to get the same roles.

[8:34] Rory O'Malley: Yes, yes.

[8:35] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and that's the healthy way to to deal with that, decide to be friends rather than get competitive.

[8:42] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. I mean, there's there's nothing useful to that.

[8:45] Jason Michael Snow: No. I mean, I would say luckily, I I've only I only have one mortal enemy uh in the business.

[8:51] Rory O'Malley: Really?

[8:51] Jason Michael Snow: Oh my god, only there's one person that just makes my blood boil that I'm like because the of the way they've treated you or because of the the the jobs that they've oh no it's just jobs they're nice per they're a nice person a very nice person and for no reason other than just me being a petty horrible human being i like when they have a success i'm like oh and i get so mad about it for no reason it's it's so normal it's it is I mean that's we all have that to to say that you don't have that with a certain person or some kind of jealousy or comparing yourself to somebody else you would be lying you'd be like oh I'm I'm not a person you know like of course you do and especially in our industry which is actually very small you know that we run into the same groups of people all the time so how do you kind of like acknowledge your feelings about this person and set it aside so it doesn't kind of destroy you?

[8:51] Jason Michael Snow: I uh I think like when I was 28 or 25 even and I was like doing a character in like a bunch of readings and then they would get that character for the show or like so you're saying like the Indina Menzel thing that you were blaming I just want to be on record this is they were Adina Menzel and I was who Stephanie J. Block. Okay but they the uh no it's not it's not you uh that I'll say on mic uh what do we turn it off I'll I have a lot to talk to you about by the last time no um uh I uh I think it's been age. I think it's been time and just and just the self-confidence of like man, I've had I'm I'm happy with my career. I really hope they're happy with their career because boy, they've had a good one and and it just kind of feels like you know what doesn't matter anymore?

This this competition, this this like fake competition, because it doesn't matter. I mean, I you know, and every every now and then like like just recently there was an announcement, and my writing partner was here and he was like, I have to disgrace you. This thing happened. It was a thing I had gone in for and gone in for and gone in for for I think three years. And like then this announcement came out, and I in a bit, I just like in I took my like phone out of my pocket, my wallet, my pocket, and just walked into my pool in all my clothes.

[11:16] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[11:19] Jason Michael Snow: And I and they were like, You're such an idiot. And I was like, This is my coping mechanism. And I'm like, and now I feel fat. I mean, you you have to develop a sense of humor, and you have to find a way to laugh.

[11:32] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[11:32] Jason Michael Snow: Cause it because again, it doesn't matter. Like the all the jobs I don't get don't go to this one person, and all the jobs they don't get don't go to me. We you know, and it also doesn't matter anyway, because like I I hope and knock would knock with, but I I feel like I've been able to do what I really want to do. And like the the shows I haven't gotten, you I mean, I don't know if you feel this way. This feels altruistic and dumb to say, so forgive me, you know, to for inducing an eye roll comp comment, but I just feel like all the jobs I haven't gotten to do, I'm so thankful for not having gotten to do them because the life moments and events that have happened have been so necessary for me to go through that I wouldn't have gone through had I gotten the job.

[12:13] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:13] Jason Michael Snow: You know, like my my to to make it very real, and I mean, you know this whole situation, but for people listening, my my mom uh got cancer and she's my best friend and she had cancer and and passed away from it in 18 months. It was like diagnosis, and they tried to operate and it didn't work, and then she passed away. And for that year and a half, I went in for Waitress and got cast and then and then got uncast because it they because they changed their mind before they went to Boston. And had I gone to Boston, I wouldn't have been there for my mom's last summer.

[12:43] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:43] Jason Michael Snow: You know, and just things like that. That like, you know, once you had it happen enough times, I mean that's an extreme version of it, but like once you've had enough versions of life happen to you that are that are you can look back on and be like, you know, I'm glad I didn't get that job because I was able to do this other thing, or I was able to work on myself, or I was able to discover this other artistic thing, you know, whatever the well, and also for something as beautiful as you know and important as having that time with your mom.

[13:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it it takes a little bit of experience in life to understand the value of that, to know and to be able to uh realize how priceless it is.

[13:25] Jason Michael Snow: There's no job that will make you uh uh happier than spending time with your parent.

[13:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah.

[13:32] Jason Michael Snow: You know, right.

[13:33] Rory O'Malley: And which is, you know, that was uh one of the most I can't believe it was 18 months. It felt even shorter, you know, just from from the outside of of knowing how um difficult that was.

[13:47] Jason Michael Snow: When you're going through something difficult like that, and you still have to show up for your career, you know, like you're home, maybe you're getting an audition and you're like Well, I did the Spongebob workshop during that. So you so you did a workshop and you're you're going back and forth, you're trying to keep things going. I remember many times in life when I I was like, I don't want to do this project or this audition, but I have to for the version of me that's three months from now who needs that job or will need to be able to to move on.

[14:24] Rory O'Malley: Um but how do you find the strength when you're going through something as difficult as losing your mother?

[14:30] Jason Michael Snow: Sometimes I think you don't. I mean, I I get I you know, I was raised Catholic, and so I'm real good at guilting myself and judging myself.

[14:37] Rory O'Malley: Same.

[14:39] Jason Michael Snow: And I just feel like, you know, I I just watched um I just watched Big Mouth.

[14:43] Jason Michael Snow: Uh huh.

[14:43] Jason Michael Snow: Uh and season two on Netflix uh streaming now.

[14:48] Jason Michael Snow: Um he's very funny in it.

[14:52] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[14:53] Jason Michael Snow: Uh they have this section where this girl, her parents are divorcing and she's acting out because of it.

[14:58] Jason Michael Snow: And first of all, my parents, you know, they divorced, and so I recognize that all too well.

[15:02] Jason Michael Snow: There's an episode where they have a depression cat, a depression kitty played by Gene Marsh from that show on Netflix about Professor X and with Dan Stevens. Anyway, Legion. Oh, the woman from Legion, right? Who runs the school? Anyway, she's the depression kitty and she had this line where she's like, "No, don't you want to just like curl up in bed all day and like sleep until like noon or one o'clock with reruns of Friends on the TV, but you're not really facing the TV and just looking away?" And I was like, oh my God, that is the most accurate, funny, very specific real. Like I have those days here in LA sometimes where I'll just be like, oh my God, I'm laying in bed, I'm watching TV, not really falling asleep sometimes, and like not doing anything. And it all feels very reminiscent of this crazy depression that only really set in around the time that mom got sick.

[16:07] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[16:08] Jason Michael Snow: And I think those times I think I'm a crazy person, but I've talked to people who've lost a parent, and they all said they kind of live in this world that exists where you talk to yourself. And I really talk to myself like a crazy person. So I'm so thankful I live alone sometimes because I haven't done this in front of Daniel yet, but I talk to myself and sometimes I just say, "Daniel, your boyfriend." And I literally say, "I can't believe I'm admitting this out loud." I like say, "Hey buddy, get up." And I tell myself, I call myself like buddy or pal and try and talk to myself the way I would to my younger siblings and just be like, "You gotta get up, you gotta start your day. You have to just put one foot in front of the other and go."

And what I found is for me, my shortcut to getting over that hill is to go for a walk outside. And so I have an alarm set that goes off at 9 a.m. every day. And at 9 a.m., it's one of my favorite jazz songs because that also puts me in a good mood. So I like get up and at nine o'clock, my favorite Meltour May song comes on and I get out of bed, and if I don't feel like showering, if I don't feel like eating, then I'll just put on my little slipper shoes and go for a walk around the block and then come back. And usually by the time you've done that, you've taken enough breaths outside and you've woken your body up that you feel like, okay, cool, I don't want to go back into bed.

[17:37] Rory O'Malley: Do you feel like I love that because it kind of gives you a routine no matter what's happening? Because our days are not routine.

[17:44] Jason Michael Snow: Yes.

[17:45] Rory O'Malley: We are always doing something different. It's even harder being in LA when you're on a shooting schedule because you're not shooting the same hours the same days. Like when you're in a Broadway show, you know, you're rehearsing at that theater six days a week, you know, 10 to 6.

[17:59] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[17:59] Rory O'Malley: And then you're at the theater eight times a week specifically. So you have a very set schedule. And even like when you're a working actor here, you don't have a schedule.

[18:08] Jason Michael Snow: No.

[18:08] Rory O'Malley: You have to make a schedule for yourself.

[18:10] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, you have to kind of give yourself that framework to start with to start your day, or you'll just wait in waters that just feel like they go on forever.

[18:23] Rory O'Malley: You'll walk into the pool with your clothes on.

[18:24] Jason Michael Snow: There you go.

[18:25] Rory O'Malley: Gosh, I hope you had a few walks around the block after that.

[18:29] Jason Michael Snow: No, it was more just to make my friends laugh. And that just felt great.

[18:32] Rory O'Malley: That's good. Well, that's always very important. So let's go, let's start from the beginning. You grew up in Washington.

[18:40] Jason Michael Snow: Spokane, Washington.

[18:41] Rory O'Malley: Spokane, Washington. Yeah. And did you start doing theater right away?

[18:47] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, my stepdad, he was like this kind of from a blue-collar family of people who just had a vocation and worked. You know, like there's a huge factory in Spokane called Kaiser Aluminum that so many of my relatives just worked for. Because like you wake, you grew up in Spokane, you work at Kaiser or you teach high school or whatever. Right. So for him, having an artistic son was a new thing. And in a way that like I think he was trying to be a good dad. I was also thinking, you know, it was, you know, being a stepparent, I think can be tricky. Sure. So he read in the paper that they were having auditions for Charlotte's Web at Spokane Children's Theater and was like, "Hey, hey Jay, here's this thing.

I know that you like to listen to musicals because my mom would play records all the time." Right. And he's like, "You want to audition for a musical?" And my mom, I never forget it was his impetus, and my mom was like, "Yeah, let's do it." So I went and sang "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" as my very first audition song, which was my lucky audition song for a decade.

[19:46] Jason Michael Snow: Oh wow. And then just started doing children's theater in Spokane. And then I started playing piano, started taking tap lessons until I got bullied out of taking tap lessons.

[19:58] Rory O'Malley: How did you get bullied out?

[19:59] Jason Michael Snow: Oh my God, I remember leaving the bus at junior high when I was like 13, and I had them in my hand or I had them in my backpack and they were making a noise or something, and this kid was like, "What are you doing? Or what's that noise?" And I was like, "Oh, my tap shoes, I'm going to tap lessons, I'm going to tap class." And he was like, "That's for girls." And I was like, "Yeah, but also like Gene Kelly." And he goes, and then he literally, I don't know if I can say this, but called me the gay F-word. Uh-huh. And it was the first time anyone ever said that to me. And I was like, "Oh, really? Am I? I don't want to be that." And I went home and quit. I was like, I told my mom, I was like, "I don't know what to do this year.

I have a lot going on. You know, I'm in junior high, so I don't really want to dance anymore. There's a lot." And she was like, "Oh, okay." And I'm so mad that I did that because I wish I had stayed like tap dancing because I really liked that. I didn't really like doing any other kind of dance.

[20:50] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[20:50] Jason Michael Snow: But I liked it. And so then I just kept doing it, and then I played piano all the time. And I just kind of acted for fun, but I was really serious about piano playing. And then when I was 16, I think you and I have talked about this. When I was 16, we built an addition to our house, and I fell through a window. And I got this scar on my right arm, which is so badass. My choir teacher in high school always called it my Luke Skywalker because when it was healing, you could see all the things moving. And it was like the end of the Empire Strikes Back and he's got his new hand. Yeah, and it's crazy. And I couldn't, and because of that, I can't feel my right hand still at 35, still can't feel it.

So anything from my first three fingers, my thumb, my index, and my middle finger because I severed what's called the median nerve to your hand. And so after that, when I was going to junior year of high school, I couldn't apply for scholarships, I couldn't, and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, I guess my piano career isn't gonna be a thing because I can't go to college for this." And this new drama teacher came to Ferris High School, and her name was Mary Cooper, and I auditioned for the musical, and she and I became like best friends, and she's still like one of my closest friends from Spokane. Wow. And she's like, "I think you should try theater. I think you should really give it a shot."

And so she coached me on my monologues for Boston Conservatory, and I got in and I got a scholarship, and I was like, "I guess I'll keep trying this." And then it just snowballed, and I just kept trying to work.

[22:20] Rory O'Malley: And what was your experience at school there?

[22:23] Jason Michael Snow: Hard because I didn't, you know, a lot of kids from around the country all went to like performing arts high schools, right? Or had voice lessons, or had training. And I was that guy who had done children's theater and tap danced and then did Anything Goes at Ferris High School, and that was my training. Yeah, I remember we did Crazy for You my senior year, and I watched the PBS version, and I just stole everything Jim Walton did. Wow, you know, from that they filmed at Cherry Hill. And I watched that paper mill broadcast of Into the Woods, and so I was like, "Well, if it's good enough for Joanna Gleason, it's good enough for me," and I'll steal everything.

[23:00] Rory O'Malley: Wait, that was at Paper Mill?

[23:01] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[23:01] Rory O'Malley: The one that's recorded is at Paper Mill.

[23:04] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. Yeah. They, I think they, I don't know why, but it says from Paper Mill Playhouse, I think, in the credits.

[23:09] Rory O'Malley: Oh wow.

[23:10] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, that's crazy. I don't think it's at the, what was it, Imperial? Who the hell knows? I don't know. All I know is I watched that a million times. I wore that VHS tape out. Wow. But so I went to school with that was my acting training, was copying, you know, Into the Woods and Crazy for You.

[23:26] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it takes a lot of skill to just copy something though. Like, you know, I could try to copy something at that age, but I wouldn't have been able to do it. I mean, so you just had like a lot of raw talent, and luckily you found yourself in a place that was gonna shape it.

[23:40] Jason Michael Snow: Well, and after halfway through school, they have you re-audition, they make you re-audition.

[23:45] Rory O'Malley: Re-audition? Like what is that?

[23:47] Jason Michael Snow: They call it promotionals, but it's like the opposite of what it sounds like.

[23:50] Rory O'Malley: Great.

[23:50] Jason Michael Snow: And they make you the gauntlet. Yeah, really. So you spend, you know, sophomore year. You go in and they're like, "Great. So at the end of this first semester, you're gonna sing two songs and do a scene with someone, and if we don't like your scene, then you're gonna have a monologue prepped." So you have to prep a monologue, prep a scene, and get two songs ready. And every future teacher that you'll ever have sits in a dark theater and watches every kid in sophomore year re-audition. And then over December break, you get told whether or not you pass. And if you didn't pass, then you're on probation for the rest of the semester for the second semester, and you have to re-audition again, or you get kicked out.

Right. And I was told I was fine at acting, and I was funny. And then they said, "But you can't sing, so you have to like really work on your voice because you can't sing." And I switched voice teachers because the lovely and talented Miss Catherine McPhee was in my class. And she wanted to go to LA and do soap operas, I think, and left. And so her spot was opened in this voice studio of this woman that I liked.

[24:50] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[24:50] Jason Michael Snow: So I went to her. And so in Mormon, when we got to write our own bios, because my first Broadway show was SOUTH PACIFIC, and Lincoln Center's very strict about no editorializing. So, like, you know, no thank yous, just state your credits, and that's your bio. So Mormon was the first bio I could like say thank you in. And so I thanked my high school drama teacher and my college voice teacher because those are the two women that are the reason I have a job or a life outside of Spokane, Washington.

[25:20] Rory O'Malley: Isn't it so crazy how drama teachers in high school and our teachers in college and as well, the amount of influence they have over their students, especially all over Broadway? It's like you actually are the reason that theater and performing arts exists on any professional level is because everyone was kind of discovered at a younger age to keep going. I mean, did they see you in the shows or they must have known that you did that, I'm sure.

[25:53] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I sent them playbills and all that kind of stuff. And what I do is I try as often as I can to go back to my high school in Spokane and talk and just like, you know, kind of basically just do this with the high school kids. This Thursday, I'm flying to Spokane to go and do a two-day workshop with all the high schoolers from a theater thing that I went to in high school called NTAF. It's like the International Theater Arts Festival. Wow. Or no, it's the Inland Northwest Theater Arts Festival, that's what it's called. God, I hope that's right. I don't know, we'll bleep it out. But it's this cool festival where like high schools from Idaho and Montana and like the sticks of Oregon all come into Spokane and just do workshops with a bunch of professionals.

Wow. It was really cool. And so I'm going back on Thursday to like do a couple workshops and teach a tap class, teach a tap workshop. And it's, you know, those teachers are so, like if I could be a philanthropist and give to anything, I would like give so much money to that high school arts program.

[27:00] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[27:01] Jason Michael Snow: Because it's just like to me, it was, you know, so many people, like I met so many nerds and I met so many like outcasts that like were just creative, but like in a town that really celebrates football, right? You don't really, you know, like if you're good at music, no one cares really. Unless you play in like the football marching band. You know what I mean? Like it's a sports-centered thing that so many communities are.

[27:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[27:29] Jason Michael Snow: Because I think it's easy to say, like, "Oh, they scored points, therefore they're good," versus like, "Oh, they can sing, therefore they're good." And you're like, "Well, I don't really know." It's an objective, it's a subjective thing. Right. You know, like sports you can be more objective about, I think, because you're like, "Yeah, either they ran fast or they didn't." Right. Versus like, "I don't know if they acted that scene well or not." Sure. So it's hard to like throw, you know, it's hard to be passionate about it as a culture, as a society because like even my, you know, my best friend and I will go see like Bad Times at the El Royale. And like he had one experience seeing the movie, and I had a different experience.

You know, and you walk out and it's just so completely, it's so subjective. So if I could be a philanthropist and just throw a shite ton of money to those high school arts programs in cities that don't get that attention, I would love it.

[28:22] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, you know, just because like it's the reason I have any business doing anything in the city of LA is that I started from a teacher who took this hyperactive kid and made him sit down and learn a House of Blue Leaves monologue after school.

[28:38] Jason Michael Snow: There's some good ones.

[28:40] Rory O'Malley: The one about making a bomb.

[28:42] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, I think I had to do that one too.

[28:43] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah.

[28:46] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. Probably one of those monologue books.

[28:49] Rory O'Malley: It was in the book.

[28:49] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, that was like an orange and white and like maroon colored book.

[28:52] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[28:53] Jason Michael Snow: Monologues for young male actors.

[28:54] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, there you go. And then you like work on that all the time, and then you've never, I've never been asked to do a monologue professionally.

[29:01] Jason Michael Snow: Nope.

[29:02] Rory O'Malley: It's so weird.

[29:03] Jason Michael Snow: I got asked to do one Shakespeare monologue when I graduated college.

[29:05] Rory O'Malley: Uh-huh.

[29:06] Jason Michael Snow: And I had one.

[29:07] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[29:07] Jason Michael Snow: But good lord, if I could tell you any of it now.

[29:10] Rory O'Malley: It's always about auditioning with the pages from a scene that you're gonna be doing.

[29:15] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[29:16] Rory O'Malley: And so I always thought as soon as I graduated, like, why didn't we do this a little more in school? Like, I really felt like we kind of brushed past that.

[29:25] Jason Michael Snow: I know I wish we could have worked with actually harder.

[29:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. A lot. So funny. Um, okay, so you graduated from school, and you said you were in audition room seeing the same people at the equity room. You were catering, so you had to have side jobs, you weren't living the highlights.

[29:42] Jason Michael Snow: No, no, I graduated college and got a pretty good professional gig at Goodspeed. I did Frederick and Pirates at Penzance at Goodspeed right when I graduated.

[29:51] Rory O'Malley: Oh wow.

[29:52] Jason Michael Snow: That was really fun.

[30:02] Jason Michael Snow: Um and then when they went to Paper Mill, they uh someone who's part of the production team, creative team, were like, hey, we're gonna take you with us and we're gonna say goodbye to the girl that was your lead girl.

[30:16] Rory O'Malley: And I was like, oh, okay, because there was an age difference between the two of us.

[30:19] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[30:20] Rory O'Malley: And they were like, yeah, she's a little, you know, she's a little old.

[30:23] Jason Michael Snow: And at the time I think she was not quite 30.

[30:26] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[30:26] Jason Michael Snow: And I'm like, that's now looking back, I'm like, that's terrifying.

[30:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[30:29] Jason Michael Snow: But they're like, yeah, she's a little old, so uh, we're gonna take you with us to Paper Mill and not take her.

[30:34] Rory O'Malley: And then the press release came out, uh, and it was like Barrett Foa playing Frederick in Pirates of Penzance.

[30:40] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[30:40] Rory O'Malley: Opposite.

[30:41] Jason Michael Snow: That's how you found out.

[30:41] Rory O'Malley: And that's how I found out I didn't get the job.

[30:43] Jason Michael Snow: Or how I found out I wasn't going forward.

[30:45] Rory O'Malley: And so I was like, oh, I guess I'm broke in Astoria.

[30:47] Jason Michael Snow: Oh my god.

[30:48] Rory O'Malley: And I guess I should wait tables or something.

[30:50] Jason Michael Snow: So I think in New York, before I got my first, before I like kept, you know, knock wood, kept working.

[30:56] Rory O'Malley: Did you have an agent when you were going to be?

[30:58] Jason Michael Snow: I did.

[30:59] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I was with Brett Adams.

[31:00] Jason Michael Snow: Okay.

[31:00] Rory O'Malley: And they were my, that was my college, like, they were so sweet to me.

[31:04] Jason Michael Snow: And uh, they yeah, they were my first agency out of college.

[31:08] Rory O'Malley: And they um, they were like, don't worry, you know, you'll, we'll get you other jobs.

[31:13] Jason Michael Snow: But like that was my learning how not to wait for the phone to ring because it then it didn't for a long time.

[31:19] Rory O'Malley: And so I think I had, I think I was with five different catering companies and I worked at two different restaurants.

[31:25] Jason Michael Snow: And I remember one time I got fired from a catering company because I, we went to um, we would do private parties at like houses in like New Jersey, like fancy mansions in New Jersey.

[31:34] Rory O'Malley: And like, like we did like Chris Rock's house a whole bunch, and I like got to meet his wife and she's like super cool.

[31:39] Jason Michael Snow: Uh, and one of these houses we did had a ton of animals, and I'm wildly allergic to everything.

[31:45] Rory O'Malley: And I had a full-on asthma attack at the house.

[31:49] Jason Michael Snow: Wow.

[31:49] Rory O'Malley: And the woman, her, that was hosting the party, her husband was like a, was like a general practitioner, like a fancy doctor or something in New Jersey.

[31:56] Jason Michael Snow: And uh, he couldn't have been a general practitioner because their house was huge.

[32:00] Rory O'Malley: But, but they, she, he was something, and she took me upstairs to his, to his like his bathroom and like gave me like an inhaler.

[32:07] Jason Michael Snow: Oh my god.

[32:08] Rory O'Malley: And I was like, thank you.

[32:09] Jason Michael Snow: And then she went to the people and she was like, he's a liability, he can't work for your company, and they fired me.

[32:14] Rory O'Malley: And I was like, what?

[32:16] Jason Michael Snow: Are you serious?

[32:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[32:18] Jason Michael Snow: So I got so, and then another, that's another moment where I was like, okay, cool.

[32:23] Rory O'Malley: So you have to just be mindful of like watching out for yourself in the way that you need to, you know, and like I, you know, I brought my inhaler with me for all the, for all the next uh gigs that I did for other catering companies.

[32:34] Jason Michael Snow: Wow.

[32:34] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[32:35] Jason Michael Snow: And I, and I pounded that pavement like crazy.

[32:37] Rory O'Malley: I mean, we, my friends and I went to like every open call, you know, when we didn't have our equity cards, we would go to like five, 5:30 in the morning and like sign up on those lists.

[32:46] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[32:46] Rory O'Malley: And like just wait and wait and wait.

[32:50] Jason Michael Snow: I think there's some kind of like internet sign-up.

[32:52] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I hope there is.

[32:53] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[32:53] Rory O'Malley: I think it's changed.

[32:55] Jason Michael Snow: Like we still had, you know, MySpace when I was auditioning.

[32:59] Rory O'Malley: Sure, yeah.

[33:00] Jason Michael Snow: You know, so like I think, I think Facebook still had the article in front of it.

[33:03] Rory O'Malley: It was called the Facebook when I got to New York.

[33:06] Jason Michael Snow: So there was uh, it was a lot, you know, more grassroots-y to do those.

[33:11] Rory O'Malley: But I remember you would show up at 5:30 in the morning and get a spot to potentially get seen.

[33:11] Jason Michael Snow: Get seen.

[33:17] Rory O'Malley: At like 5:30 in the afternoon.

[33:18] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[33:18] Rory O'Malley: And then would you have to stay that whole time?

[33:20] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[33:21] Rory O'Malley: Because you never knew when they were gonna come out and read your name.

[33:23] Jason Michael Snow: I came, I did a few of them, but by the time I came to New York, I was, I was equity.

[33:27] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[33:27] Jason Michael Snow: Because I got my equity card in Los Angeles.

[33:29] Rory O'Malley: So you have all these moments where you are trying to figure out how to feed yourself at crazy jobs.

[33:37] Jason Michael Snow: You're showing up at 5:30 in the morning.

[33:40] Rory O'Malley: You're not getting the job.

[33:43] Jason Michael Snow: Dealing with rejection, sometimes you jump in the pool.

[33:49] Rory O'Malley: But jumping in the pool and laughing is different than when you're going to your catering job that night or whatever side work you have.

[33:58] Jason Michael Snow: How did you get through those days and get yourself up to be at an audition at 5:30 in the morning when you knew you had to cater or work at a restaurant that night?

[34:07] Jason Michael Snow: You know what was a big turning point? I was in for, uh, I was in for the revival of SOUTH PACIFIC for Noah Weisberg's role.

[34:16] Rory O'Malley: And it was one of those where you get called back and then you get called back and you get called back.

[34:21] Jason Michael Snow: And so when you're 23, I think I was at the time, or 24, when you get your third callback, you're like, oh, I've obviously booked this.

[34:28] Rory O'Malley: So I just need to like, you know, keep going to these callbacks because clearly I have the job.

[34:32] Jason Michael Snow: They're just waiting.

[34:33] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[34:34] Jason Michael Snow: And I remember it was a day where in Lincoln Center, we were, it was Noah and then me, and then Noah and then me, and then Noah and then me.

[34:39] Rory O'Malley: And then uh, I think Craig Burns called and said, hey, look, so they're going with Noah because he's already done a Broadway show.

[34:46] Jason Michael Snow: And so it's on paper, it's just he's done it, and, and, and so it's not going your way, but everyone loves you, and you know.

[34:53] Rory O'Malley: But you know, when you're 23 and 24, you're like, that's so devastating because you're like, well, how can I ever break into this if I can't do it?

[35:01] Jason Michael Snow: If I can't, you know, if I can't do an eight show a week thing, and I then I can't prove to someone that I can do it.

[35:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it's totally crazy.

[35:07] Jason Michael Snow: And my, and I was, and that, and I had to go to a catering gig that night.

[35:11] Rory O'Malley: And my roommate and my best friend, uh, we, we catered together, and he came up to me and I was so sad.

[35:11] Jason Michael Snow: And he came up and he was like, look, here's the deal.

[35:21] Rory O'Malley: You've been playing piano since you were a kid, and like, because I still play piano, I just, you know, because it was just fun, it was a way of, you know, just like kind of de-stressing.

[35:27] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[35:28] Rory O'Malley: And he was like, I love watching The Simpsons, and I, and like he's like, and I kind of have like a take on, you know, funny take on things.

[35:34] Jason Michael Snow: And our best friend Misha writes poetry.

[35:36] Rory O'Malley: He's like, why don't we get together and just start writing?

[35:39] Jason Michael Snow: He's like, if we aren't, because all of us are trying to be actors, he's like, if we can't get arrested here in this town, let's just do our own thing.

[35:46] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[35:47] Jason Michael Snow: And so we were like, great, what sounds funny to us?

[35:50] Rory O'Malley: And that was right when Legally Blonde came out, and we were like, let's turn movies that should never be made into musicals into musicals.

[35:56] Jason Michael Snow: So then all of a sudden our days had meaning.

[35:59] Rory O'Malley: We had a schedule, you know, we had writing to do.

[36:02] Jason Michael Snow: We would go to his parents' house on Long Island on writing retreat weekends, and the three of us would just go to like, you know, to Rockville Center, Long Island and write, you know, Bill Paxton's I Want song for Twister the Musical.

[36:14] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[36:14] Jason Michael Snow: Or, you know, or write like Show Me the Money from Jerry McGuire.

[36:18] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[36:19] Jason Michael Snow: And like we would just do all these things, and it just felt so fun.

[36:22] Rory O'Malley: And suddenly auditions stopped being the only way you could artistically express yourself.

[36:26] Jason Michael Snow: So auditions became this thing that you just were just like, okay, yeah, I've got this audition, but then I'll come home and write.

[36:32] Rory O'Malley: And you had something, something more fun to look forward to, right?

[36:35] Jason Michael Snow: Than like walking in and, you know, you know, singing eight bars of a random song and hoping maybe you get a callback for a reading.

[36:42] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[36:42] Jason Michael Snow: Waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for something to come to you, you were able to create, and you weren't needing, you didn't have to have permission from somebody else.

[36:50] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[36:50] Jason Michael Snow: You guys gave permission to yourselves.

[36:52] Rory O'Malley: And it saved all of our butts.

[36:55] Jason Michael Snow: I mean, the second we started doing that, and the second, of course, the second we got um, the Zipper Factory, uh, they loved, we had, we made a demo of all the stuff and we talked to us at the Zipper Factory.

[37:05] Rory O'Malley: The second we did that is when I booked my first off-Broadway show, which led to being in the Xanadu National Tour, and I was gonna be gone for all of the performances.

[37:13] Jason Michael Snow: And then my best friend Misha was working, and then she booked something else, and Ryan booked this crazy big reading, and all of us became wildly unavailable for our own concert that we then were like trying to sell out at the Zipper Factory.

[37:25] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[37:26] Jason Michael Snow: And after that, that was when I realized, okay, cool.

[37:28] Rory O'Malley: When I'm in a slump or when I'm in a low time or downtime, I have to create my own thing.

[37:33] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[37:33] Rory O'Malley: And I don't know if that works for everybody, but for me, it, it I have to do it because I can't have these auditions be the only thing artistically that happens in my life.

[37:43] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[37:43] Rory O'Malley: Because even auditions aren't that artistic.

[37:46] Jason Michael Snow: Like, there's not a way to really get rid of that energy.

[37:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[37:49] Jason Michael Snow: It doesn't feel like you're really getting to have that communion with an audience or with you're doing your craft, even though it's so much of what we do in our craft, yeah, that it doesn't, it's not the same satisfying feeling.

[38:02] Rory O'Malley: No, because you, because you have this, no matter how much, I mean, it's like it literally is like dating, but it's almost like dating when you haven't, like when you haven't had like a significant other for a long time.

[38:11] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and like my friends and I talk about this because one of my buddies hasn't had a long-term boyfriend for a while, and he's like, I just feel like I go on these dates, and I want to hide how desperate I am for this to be the date that leads to my husband.

[38:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and I'm like, I get it, because you go into those, it's the same with auditions, you go into those auditions and you're like, I just want so desperately for this to be the job that pulls me out of my financial sadness, or the job that lets me do the one thing I've wanted to do since I was seven.

[38:36] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[38:37] Rory O'Malley: And you can't, the weirdest trick is what you have to walk into those rooms and it can't, you can't care about it.

[38:43] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, I think you have to, and like walking into dating, and you can't really care if they're, you know, your soulmate or not.

[38:48] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[38:49] Jason Michael Snow: It's just to like be present and be a human.

[38:51] Rory O'Malley: And I think the only way you do that is when you find the thing on the side that becomes more fun.

[38:56] Jason Michael Snow: Right.

[38:56] Rory O'Malley: That's just, it's, I think that that, you know, is the tricky thing is finding that and letting yourself have the freedom to pursue it, you know, because once you do that and you open your mind up to other joyful things other than somebody giving you a job, then it changes your DNA, it changes your, there's a weight that's lifted off of you.

[39:23] Jason Michael Snow: And I think that it's hard for us, especially when you come out of a program that's got your mindset like this is what you do, you need to book this job, that's what's going on.

[39:31] Rory O'Malley: You should always be in class, you should always be keeping everything like keep your instrument really well oiled and well fine-tuned, and, and you're just like, no, just throw it away.

[39:39] Jason Michael Snow: Like do what makes you happy, and, and you know, like my friend, um, uh, in LA, he's a, he's a very, very talented musician, and he writes like Dungeons and Dragons um scenarios, like scenarios to then host extravagant, lavish little parties.

[39:57] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[39:57] Jason Michael Snow: And then on the side is just so happens to be like a very accomplished music director.

[40:02] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[40:02] Jason Michael Snow: But like for him, it's like I can't wait for the phone ring.

[40:04] Rory O'Malley: I have to just do the thing that makes me happy.

[40:07] Jason Michael Snow: And then his like narrative structure then spills out into him being an excellent music director who's like, actually, to make this happen, we need this and that and that and that.

[40:15] Rory O'Malley: And you're like, oh, you learned that skill set because you were writing scenarios.

[40:18] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[40:18] Rory O'Malley: You know, for your friends, like because when you're writing Dungeons and Dragons scenarios, you're trying to surprise your friends, right?

[40:23] Jason Michael Snow: AKA an audience, you know, and then you take those dumb lessons you learn and you apply it to your profession.

[40:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[40:29] Jason Michael Snow: I mean, we're literally engaging in the thing that I started doing, you know, this podcast, it was not an artistic endeavor for me at all.

[40:38] Rory O'Malley: But I do feel like the art of conversation and communicating with another human being and having people tell me these stories, it's changed me as an actor.

[40:38] Jason Michael Snow: It's changed me as a person, and I am so happy every time I send it off into the world and somebody listens to it.

[40:58] Rory O'Malley: I don't know how many people are listening to this.

[41:00] Jason Michael Snow: My mom, probably.

[41:02] Rory O'Malley: I know that.

[41:03] Jason Michael Snow: But it, it what's more important is that I'm creating a thing, and that no one asked for it, no one gave me permission to do it but myself.

[41:14] Rory O'Malley: And that's so empowering in a, in a business that we just don't have any power some days.

[41:20] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah.

[41:20] Rory O'Malley: You don't have any kind of say over creating.

[41:24] Jason Michael Snow: So um, do you find, do you find that that you like to have your, uh, hands in a whole bunch of different pies?

[41:31] Rory O'Malley: Or do you find that like this podcast kind of gives you kind of checks all the boxes for you?

[41:37] Jason Michael Snow: Oh, I've, you know, I mean that I have a lot of pies.

[41:37] Rory O'Malley: A lot of pies.

[41:42] Jason Michael Snow: A lot of pies, you know, and you don't know which one's gonna come out of the oven, right?

[41:46] Rory O'Malley: No joke.

[41:47] Jason Michael Snow: So you have to kind of, you have to keep looking around to figure out what other ways you can, uh, stimulate yourself and create.

[41:58] Rory O'Malley: And gotta bake a lot.

[41:59] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, you do.

[42:00] Jason Michael Snow: And, and you know that that has also come to me with, uh, doing activism, doing, uh, social work, because that to me is more gratifying in some ways.

[42:14] Rory O'Malley: And uh, you know, this whole Belt the Vote thing of doing voter registration, it's, it's been a lot of work.

[42:21] Jason Michael Snow: And there are days when I'm like, why am I doing this?

[42:24] Rory O'Malley: And then you remember that there are so many people who are not registered to vote, and I just am so proud of the theater community for stepping up and getting to witness that, you know.

[42:35] Jason Michael Snow: Uh, like what we were talking about in the beginning is that knowing that New York theater community and the power that it has when it works on something together and they have come together for voter registration.

[42:45] Rory O'Malley: So that has inspired me and has nothing to do with art, but it's given me this new lease on life in a time that is so negative and sad.

[42:56] Jason Michael Snow: I think that's incredible.

[42:58] Rory O'Malley: Wasn't it you?

[42:58] Jason Michael Snow: Was it, what's her name?

[43:00] Rory O'Malley: Was it Emily?

[43:01] Jason Michael Snow: Was it you, Gavin, and M.

[43:01] Rory O'Malley: And Jenny.

[43:02] Jason Michael Snow: Jenny, Jenny.

[43:03] Rory O'Malley: Sorry, Jenny.

[43:04] Jason Michael Snow: Um, I knew there was a why at the end.

[43:06] Rory O'Malley: Uh, uh, the three, the, the, because you guys did all that stuff while we were doing it.

[43:10] Jason Michael Snow: So Broadway Impact.

[43:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, we were doing marriage equality work, and that's, you know, that was, uh, the first time I had ever done anything like that, and I wasn't employed.

[43:18] Jason Michael Snow: You know, I was very, very scared about how I was going to survive in New York.

[43:25] Rory O'Malley: But Prop 8 had been passed in California, and I had just learned how to canvas and phone bank working and volunteering for Obama's campaign.

[43:33] Jason Michael Snow: So I was like, well, I have this time, I have to figure out if I'm going to do something about this issue that's so important, or if I'm just gonna, you know, stand on the sidelines and just hope that there's an audition that fills this void.

[43:50] Rory O'Malley: And I said, fuck it.

[43:52] Jason Michael Snow: I'm gonna just dive into this thing and do everything I can, and I couldn't believe like within a month or two of that happening, I was doing a reading of The Book of Mormon.

[44:08] Rory O'Malley: And I didn't have to sacrifice this, the passion for something new to be faithful to my first passion of being a performer.

[44:18] Jason Michael Snow: I, I in fact it, it made that more wonderful.

[44:22] Rory O'Malley: And I also felt like that experience of working on a nonprofit, it let me walk away from Mormon.

[44:28] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, which was a hard thing, and I want to talk to you about that.

[44:31] Rory O'Malley: That, you know, we were given this gift, you know, we've, we've been talking about our struggles, but we were a part of The Book of Mormon, which maybe we should talk about the beginning rather than the end first.

[44:43] Jason Michael Snow: But you know, that having Broadway Impact and having something else other than, uh, being an actor fulfill me, let me walk away from it and know that life had more to offer and that I would be able to have more experiences if I gave myself that, that opening.

[44:58] Rory O'Malley: So you have, you were in the third reading of The Book of Mormon.

[45:02] Jason Michael Snow: Um we we did a couple of uh workshops, which means we put it up on its feet, did dancing. That was like uh at least a year, yeah, maybe more. We did, yeah. I I don't the the timeline because I I I opened SOUTH PACIFIC. Oh, I eventually got SOUTH PACIFIC, so right, yeah, you went into that role. Yeah, and that was that was a year and change after I didn't get it. Right. And then like how life is so crazy, yeah, and then I got it, and then and then the day that I was having my opening night, which was a Tuesday in July, which didn't matter to anybody else but me, and it was gonna be my first night on Broadway. I was with my mom and my stepdad. We were walking down Ninth Avenue, and I got a call from my agent being like, um, hey, so you're gonna you were asked to do this reading with the South Park people, and I was like, What are you talking about?

Like, I don't know, it's called the Book of Mormon. I was like, I don't know what that is, great, I'm in. And that all happened on the same day. Wow. It was nuts. And so for some reason, Mormon always has like this a very solid timeline in my life of we did that last reading, like end of July or early August for uh two weeks at the Vineyard. Then we went and did the first workshop in February of 09. Okay. And then we did like I was there, but I need you to kind of walk through the internet. And then um, and then we did the last workshop at Juilliard in August. Right. Right when we closed SOUTH PACIFIC. Oh wow. Yeah. So I was running back and forth from across the street because we were also gearing up to film it for PBS the week that one of the weeks that we were doing it with with Casey and everybody at Juilliard.

Yeah. So I was running from like we were doing like camera blocking stuff. Yeah. Wow. And then we found out halfway through that workshop or halfway through the performances that we already were just gonna go to Broadway. Yeah, and we had a job waiting for us in January. Yeah, that final performance, I think Steven Sondheim was just there. It was it was such a crazy time because it was uh I have to say, like that workshop previews before we opened that that probably was the greatest part of the whole experience for me when it was just a secret when we knew what it was, and people on the outside world had no idea. When we were terrified that that everyone was gonna be like, oh South Park, yeah, I roll, I roll.

Yeah. And there was there were moments where it was just like, yeah, maybe college kids would like it, but like maybe no one else will. Right. We didn't know if like there would be a matinee performance of the colour. No joke, yeah. It might just be touring colleges after we closed. Exactly. But it it it was such a crazy wonderful experience and was embraced and um I felt like especially um because we were dance partners in the beginning I'm not the dancer I wasn't bullied out of dance I just didn't get get in the class listen though since since we were dance partners may maybe those bullies did me a favor because I'm not a dancer either so you know maybe they were just trying to tell me what I should have already known.

I I feel like what was so great about like the those Mormon boys is that we all went through that experience and I felt like we were all such equals in in our ability and what we brought to the table in terms of everyone was just a really good actor first. Do you know what I mean? Like I really felt like this is a a troupe of actors and we can sing and and do some dancing but like we're gonna tell a story and um the whole cast was I think that started with with those workshops and the and the readings because I remember you know the the the the creative team that was hitting that ship did table work. Yeah with all of us.

[48:34] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah research and and and I remember one time we we would do it was when you had that zero baptism song and like Kevin Kevin might have been your like lover but maybe not and there was a moment where we're like we yeah and we were we would we like there was a second a section where we all like freaked out at some point and and like uh and and I I just remember like they they would come in and be like hey guys here's a new scene see if it works and we'd stage it and try it and then be like yeah, maybe. Right. Or like, no, and then they'd cut it, or they'd like reuse a couple lines here and there, like repurpose lines to somebody else. And it was so like it was so vibrant and alive because these guys were from this TV world of like we have to write an episode of a television show in five days.

Five days. Right. That's how they write South Park. And and we would just be like, cool. All right, great. Give us like new new scenes. You know uh the pro you you are a writer, you write music, so you understand this better than I do. But what was so crazy is when we would come back from like a several months off in between readings or workshops, we would come back and we would start to work on the the music, and it was exactly what we had left. Like, and we would be like, Oh my god, they do any work? What are we doing here? Yep. And they would be in a room in an office writing a new song, and we were like, oh boy, you know, are they gonna be able to pull something off in just a few days? And then they would come out a few days later with I believe.

Yeah. And you were like, What? Or all American. Or all American. All American was like a totally different song. Right. All the way up through Juilliard, wasn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Uh by the time, all American. Yeah. All American, I think, was for like previews or in tech. Or like we didn't get that song till late in the game. No, I think that it was definitely something that was being put together in previews. I remember there was tambourines at one point. Oh there, yes, I think in front of an audience. Yeah. We had tambourines in front of an audience. I forgot about that. Yes. Oh my god. I remember um uh uh You and Me But Mostly Me was a different song. Yeah, which they then they then it was called Something Incredible, and they repurposed that into the bridge of You and Me But Mostly Me. Right. Wow. And it was really should like all come together and remind each other about these things because I forgot about that. I love that song.

[50:49] Jason Michael Snow: The groove was just so cute. You and me but mostly me. It's so fun to watch that too, because like something incredible was like a cool groove, like fun, cute song. But then you me but mostly me is like so much like heads and shoulders, better storytelling. Yeah. And it's that that to me was one of those moments where I just had a weird out-of-body experience of like how lucky to be in this room and watch these people work. Yeah. So fast and so fast, if so efficiently, you know, and also um with with precision that lands. Yes. Like, because you know, you could like throw a song out, put a new song in, and everyone's like, oh, that's a dud too. Yeah. But man, every time they went back to the drawing board, it came back way better.

Way better. It was a great thing. And they didn't waste any time on something that wasn't working. No, like that Josh and Andrews song. Yeah. In the in the coffee shop. Yes. There was a song before that big final scene where they were upset with each other and and I think we only saw it once and it was cut. They learned it, they did they performed it for us. Yeah. And everyone was like, cool, we don't need this. Yeah. And and they weren't precious with any of it. No. It was so cool.

[51:59] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, it it was very interesting to have creators work on a musical that are just used to having a computer generate their idea and animate it and and and just be like, no, that's not working. So let's just redo this entire thing in one day. Because they they were willing to do that. Yeah. And it, you know, I hope they do it again one day. I would love to see see a new show from them. It's also cool to watch, I think as any kind of an artist, to watch someone be cool with not being precious about something. You know, like they worked on, you know, something incredible for how long, right? How many years was was something incredible in every reading, every workshop, and then and then, you know, like Casey or or whatever that Juilliard team, you know, they were like, We don't think this accomplishes the right goal, and then everyone's like, Great, cool, next song, let's do something different.

Yeah, it was and it's just so awesome to watch people at the top of their game be humble enough to be like, Yeah, cool, great, doesn't work out. Bye. And then let's put something new in. I loved watching that so much of like leading almost like a leading by example of of great. I can't wait to have my own show, or I can't wait to create my own thing and be just as not precious with it as you guys are, and be cool with like editing all the way until five in the morning. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I over-romanticized it, of course, because then when I did get in that position, I was like, This is so stressful.

[53:26] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. But it's cool to watch. Yeah. So we were in a a show that really caught fire and was so exciting. And for me, I don't know if it was for you, but it really was, you know, I had social media, but it really kind of like changed what social media was because I wasn't just engaging with my friends, I was engaging with strangers, theater fans, strangers, and people I didn't know. And at times it became overwhelming. How have you navigated through social media? And do you see it as a plus? Do you what are the downsides of it for you?

[54:00] Jason Michael Snow: Well, my boyfriend Daniel uh and his writing partner Matt Wilkes, yes, just fully funded like 46,000 dollars. Oh, good. Yeah, they're yeah, it got greenlit. Because of social media, yeah. Like Daniel was on a uh show called the Lizzie Bennett Diaries on YouTube, and um Matt Wilkes is like he's got like tons of social media following, and the two of them were like, Well, we love doing this sketch series, and enough people watched it, and they were, you know, put on all the the the sites, but they were like, let's just, let's just, you know, basically crowdsource people who like what we do and just see if we all want to get together and in this weird hippie communal like digital way, see if everyone wants us to keep doing what we're doing.

And $46,000 worth of people said, Yeah, let's we want you to keep creating. So I love social media in these moments where it it's a reinforcer to people of we really like what you're doing. We like that what you're put what you're putting out, so please keep making more of it. Right. You know, so I I I wish I was better at it. I I'm not good at it. What does that mean? Good at it?

[55:07] Jason Michael Snow: Like, I I probably should do an Instagram story every day or something, you know, like what do you think that is though? Like, like because uh I think there is a new pressure on doing that, and as if that's part of the gig now. And I I'm not saying I don't feel that way, but I I have been able to like um I I don't do as much because I'm not in Hamilton. You know, when I was in Hamilton, it's like, okay, look, here's a lot to look at. Yeah that I know that the people who follow me want to see. Do you want to see me go to the gas station and you know run my errands? Right. No. You want to see me drive through the Warner Brothers lot for a for an audition? Right. And I mean, you know, maybe people do, but there's also like the Animaniacs Tower.

You can just Google it. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, uh it I'm not trying to take away from like people who do feel inclined to to share in that way, but I'm wondering where it comes from that now we feel like obligated to to do that.

[56:12] Jason Michael Snow: And is that where is that taking what it means to be an actor? I mean, the hope is uh I think well, of course, I mean, I think when I see someone who's disingenuous on that, when someone's like, hey, you guys, I'm so grateful, like you guys mean so much to me, and you're just like, bullshit, you don't believe that at all. Be a real person. Right. Right. You can I think you can kind of tell when someone's truly present and engaging with you on social media, or or just kind of like going through the motions and like being like, I saw someone else who was present, and I'm in a fake being present and grateful and all that kind of stuff. Uh so I feel like there's a checks and balances that exist just in in what people decide to follow and people don't decide to follow, which then makes me nervous to engage because I would like to be authentic. But there's also a knowledge of like even my vulnerability and even my authenticity, the business side of me knows that like if I if people like it and subscribe to it, then I get further.

[57:15] Jason Michael Snow: Right. And so there's a weird like wrestling, at least with me, of thinking like I want to do it on my own. I don't want to do it because of some extraneous outward thing. You know, like I wanna I want to get this job because I auditioned for it, not because my best friend is the director of it. Yeah. Even though I wouldn't also mind the job because my best friend's a director of it, because then we get to work together. Right. But I, you know, there's like a weird, I don't know if it's nepotism, it's like something that's different than that, but there's something about an authenticity of social media that that I can't put, I can't connect to yet. Yeah. And so because of that, because I see some people on on Instagram and on their stories on Twitter, and like Tim Fetterly is a great example of this.

[57:57] Jason Michael Snow: He is like everything he says is dynamite. Everything he tweets is dynamite. And I've always wanted to ask him, I'm like, how much pressure do you feel to just constantly be always funny? Yeah. But I and I haven't asked him that yet. But I feel like, remember when we were, remember when when AOL was a thing? Sure. And we were all like in college with like, you know, our our landlines that you couldn't pick up the phone receiver to get on. And people and and away messages became a thing. Yeah. And so people would like leave away messages that were just kind of laundry lists of like going to the grocery store, then getting my haircut, then going to the thing and then doing that. And you're just like, who cares? I don't care. Why is that an away message? And then some people would like leave like funny away messages, and you're like, oh, I want to do that. That's kind of funny.

[58:38] Jason Michael Snow: And I now have residuals of that of like, first of all, I shouldn't be so judgmental. Second of all, that was the beginnings of what all of this I think has blown up into like, no, some people do kind of want to know, like, like if you go to the grocery store, is it funny or is it interesting? Right. And I feel you have this pressure to be either funny or interesting. And if you aren't either, then you're then it's a failure. Right. And you shouldn't even do it. Right. So then I I just feel like I just there's pressure to be funny or interesting. And if you aren't, then don't. And I feel like I don't know if I am. And I don't know if I want to go seeking the validation of asking strangers to like or comment on my stuff to tell me if I'm funny or interesting.

Cause then I worry that then I'll rely on people saying I'm funny or interesting to then for then me like five years down the road to be like, oh gosh, people stopped telling me that I'm funny or interesting. And now that's all I have to hang anything on. Right. And I'm you know, so it's like I don't know how to balance it yet.

[59:37] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. And I don't know if I want to balance it yet. Yeah, it's a very um it's something that you kind of have to sit in the driver's seat of and not let it drive you. Yeah. And I, you know, if my husband is listening to this, he will make fun of me for saying that I have any kind of boundaries around it. But because you know, he'll be like, oh, are you sending a tweety, honey?

[1:00:02] Jason Michael Snow: You're saying, you know, like if I'm staring at the phone for too long, trying to think of the right thing to say. I am mindful of the fact that I'm sending it out to people, and a lot of times they're young, you know, theater fans who are on social media, and so I'm very careful about what I put out there, and I feel like you do have to have a presence, but there are days where I just don't want to I I where I I have to remind myself that I don't have to let the public into my day today.

[1:00:30] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, like it's not my it's not their right, and it's not my obligation, yeah. And and it's also like you have to always check like is this something about your ego or validating something in yourself? And you know, going through Hamilton, I think is probably why I'm so interested with this, because it was like being shot out of a social media canon. And we can't even imagine what we went through with Book of Mormon was like, do not talk about Book of Mormon outside. Everything was quiet.

[1:01:00] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. You could you know, no performances of it outside of of the theater. Don't film anything backstage. Don't ever film anything backstage. You know, now there's no phones allowed backstage or Book of Mormon. I mean, it's very, very different because at Hamilton, everyone's live at all times backstage. You know, it's things are always being put on the internet.

[1:01:19] Jason Michael Snow: Well, and now I see the the people who who've replaced us in Mormon, and like, I mean, I see like, I'm like, oh, look, there's my little dressing room. Oh, oh look, there's my there's all these costumes. I'm like, oh wait, I have like very little amount of pictures of any of that. Because we just it just in 2011. Right. That what that was a that is the exact opposite mentality.

[1:01:38] Jason Michael Snow: Yes. Yeah. It's just it's things have changed very, very quickly. Yeah. And I don't know. I think we just have to be mindful of what it's doing to us as artists. Yeah. And it what's the prior priority. And you know, in a way, like you know, you talked about Tim. He he is so smart and funny, and there are so many people who are being creative. Um, but I wonder how much of the creativity is being put into something that just kind of like goes away that maybe could be put into um something more permanent.

[1:02:12] Jason Michael Snow: Something more permanent. You know, and like, and I mean also just because like someone like Tim, now we're just talking about Tim. But you know, he's hi Tim Fetterly. Hi. Um he's so great and smart, and you know, I hope that these are uh it's an outlet for some for someone to have more access to work and for some for their work to be seen and compensated for it as well.

[1:02:32] Jason Michael Snow: Well, he he he and I talked to uh uh because I was I was going around and I was doing a uh uh a pilot that I I'd gotten I'd cobbled together a pilot about my my family life. Because I because all my siblings not all my siblings, but all my siblings from Spokane are adopted. Right. And my mom passed away, and so I had this like what if moment of like look at this crazy like cornucopia of multicultural kids.

[1:02:54] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and what if you know they all had to help raise themselves? And so I, you know, was like, let's make a little pilot pitch about my life. And I got super far with it, and then eventually uh everyone was like, Cool, this is great. Let's shelve it for now, because we like it, but we don't want to take it out and have it be doors closed on this concept. And I talked to Tim about it, and he's like, Look, I have never done anything that hasn't resulted in another job, but maybe not from the job that I was doing.

[1:03:22] Jason Michael Snow: And I was like, What do you mean? He goes, Well, I was asked to do like a like a pilot on a on a novel that he had worked on, and he he cobbled that together into a script and then sent and you know took it out. And people were like, Cool, so maybe no on this, but you're talented, so then maybe here's a movie. And then that's how he wrote Ferdinand.

[1:03:38] Jason Michael Snow: Wow. He got Ferdinand from a from a script that no one wanted to buy, but then but like he put all this energy into it, you know. And then like, like I think even the beginning of like Simon and Schuster stuff with him with all those recipe books, the cocktail books that he started, were because he just was like tweeting. Yeah. I mean, for someone like him, he uh there's the well is never dry, I guess I should say, you know, like for for the way and but I think work begets work, and no matter what kind it is, you know.

[1:04:04] Jason Michael Snow: Like I think so, so my you know, my my friends were like, Are you really sad that they all kind of pass on or shelved your pilot for now? And I was like, No, because I don't think that that was a month of of like a I did it in a month and a half because I didn't know the deadlines of anything because I'm still such a newbie. And I but I really believed in it and I felt emotionally connected to it, and I and now I know what it's like to have a 13-page document on what you think a show should look like.

[1:04:29] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and and and so if nothing ever comes of it, I mean, man, the life lessons and the and the what I've already trained my brain chemically to even understand on like how to like like the couch you're sitting on right now, uh, is my writing couch. So like I don't sit in the this chair by my desk. Like, whenever I write anything, I sit right there and I put music on and like I just work for you know three hours, and like that's just my routine.

[1:04:53] Jason Michael Snow: Routine. And it's just now now I've got that under my belt to go forward and be like, cool. If this this nothing comes of this idea I had, then the skills I've learned in this moment, it probably will pay off at some point, right? Because like I played piano my whole life, and then I was like, Oh, I can't do that as a career. But then I started composing. And then from that, I did like all the music to the web series that my friends and I just shot.

[1:05:16] Jason Michael Snow: So, like, you know, like, cool, I'm not headlining at Carnegie Hall playing Chopin, but but that skill has been so useful. Right. So I just feel like there's no no skill is wasted. It might just be repurposed. Right. And so that's kind of the thing I'm trying to wrap my brain around with social media of like boy, doing a story on Instagram. Like last Saturday was the anniversary of the movie musical, the twister of the movie musical that we did at the Zipper Factory 10 years ago.

[1:05:45] Jason Michael Snow: I saw you post about it. And and I had some strangers who who I had never talked to on Instagram, message me and be like, hey, I'm a burgeoning composer, or oh my god, I my friends and I are doing this thing. And I try to like communicate to everybody that writes me on Instagram if I can. Um and and and uh so slide into my DMs. Um and and it was cool to just realize like, oh, this moment might not be for me.

[1:06:12] Jason Michael Snow: This might be like, hey, here I am, and like here's something I did 10 years ago, and I'm really proud of it, and I just want to, you know, just throw it out there in the world. And then someone else is like, oh, cool, my friends and I are doing the same thing. Good to know that this, you know, isn't for nothing. Right. And so, like, and then who knows, maybe they're the next Lynn Manuel Miranda, and like watching other artists share their work is what galvanizes them to keep doing work.

[1:06:35] Jason Michael Snow: And again, like that to me, like that's that's what this whole art like theater community, certainly in New York, and I think a little bit more and more uh the more I get to know LA, yeah, that it's just like that's to me how social media can help is that like your experience can inspire someone else because certainly people's experiences have inspired me. Right. And it's just to kind of hopefully know that we're all blind, we're all crazy, we all don't know what we're doing.

[1:07:01] Jason Michael Snow: And like maybe someone will just like get a leg up with someone else, and then we'll all just kind of help boost each other up to keep creating. You're you're incredible because you have always, since you were working with those friends of yours, you've always been looking for ways to create your own shit, and that is so important to stay sane and creative, as we've said a couple times here. You have something really funny and fun, uh, a web series now.

[1:07:29] Jason Michael Snow: Can you tell us about that? Uh sure, sure. If you are uh if you are still in high school or younger, this is where you just you know hit that fast forward button for about you know three three 30 second moments. Uh we were my my buddies Lucas Hazlitt and Matt Burrow and I uh uh were sitting around the pool right outside this door and talking about awful uh hookup experiences that had gone horribly, horribly wrong.

[1:07:53] Jason Michael Snow: Um you and most of my dressing roommates from Book of Mormon know a lot of mine. Um and uh and we just were laughing about it and we were like, let's just film these. Why the hell not? Like we're we're we're all three wanting to like work. Yeah, and my boyfriend's brother is a is a DP, and so he was so we were like, Will, can you film all this for us? Wow.

[1:08:13] Jason Michael Snow: So we like drunk history decided we would film six of our worst hookup scenarios, and so we did, and we call it the shallow end. Yeah, and it's basically each of us get two episodes of recreating a terrible night. And and the thing that we we had long conversations too about what we wanted to represent. And we were like, one thing we will never do is sex shame. We really, really want to make it known.

[1:08:34] Jason Michael Snow: Because like some of us have had some crazy moments. Like Matt had a moment where a guy confessed that he was into um uh drinking a lot of water and um going forward with that. Okay. Uh-huh. And we were like, let's make sure to not shame fetish fetishes. Sure. Cause because why? And who cares? If it's not for me, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be for anybody else.

[1:08:55] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah. But the the but Matt's episode is a horror episode because the horror of it was the guy was like, hey, I want to do this sexual act with you later, but I have to take a phone call. I and so I'll be right back. And then Matt just sits there having to go use the bathroom and can't, and like wanting to like have a good night, and then eventually, like the whole episode turns into like every hour all of our favorite horror movies in one 30 minute episode, and then he eventually runs to the bathroom and the guy's like, get out of my house.

[1:09:23] Jason Michael Snow: I mean, it's so it's it's so great, and it's it looks so good. I mean, it's the whole the whole thing is fantastic, and I know I've never done something like that, but I know even doing something so small is so much work. It's so hard. Yeah, well, we're a five-minute operation. I mean, it's it's Matt taught himself Adobe Premiere to edit because we couldn't afford to pay anybody to do it.

[1:09:45] Jason Michael Snow: So Matt was like, Yeah, I guess I'll just I don't know, I've done iMovie. Yeah, and like and he's like, I've edited bits for my friends. So he taught himself Premiere and would use YouTube to like teach him how to do editing tricks. And then like it's definitely not the same, but that's like the technical wonders that I'm doing right now. It's just teaching myself because I was like, Well, if I'm gonna do this, no one's gonna do it for me.

[1:10:08] Jason Michael Snow: Right, right. Not like you can like call in PR and be like, hey, I have this idea. And they're like, Great, we have seven booths that are completely unoccupied. Right. Believe me, if anyone would have helped initially, I would have taken that. But yeah, really you really do, you know, once again, you can't wait for permission. You just have to keep going. And I think that I think that sometimes people assume that after you've had the milestones of success that you've had, that then the things just start to come to you, and you just kind of like pick and choose which ones you're gonna take when it's really a hustle the entire time.

[1:10:42] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, you're always working to figure out what what comes next. So you might as well be the one who decides. Absolutely. I mean, I I I've gotten lucky enough to wear like some some people that I've worked with in New York on those, like we did that Downton Abbey musical. Right. We did the Russian Broadway shutdown musical. Oh, yeah, yeah. And some of the people that I've that I worked with on that, like they were just kind of like starting out or or um kind of just getting their their foot in the door.

[1:11:10] Jason Michael Snow: And I was like, Oh, hey, I remember you from this reading, like, come come and do this thing. And they're like, Oh, great, awesome, thanks so much. And then now they're out here in LA, and and just very recently I got a lovely job because someone was like, Hey, I know this person, they had me do this thing in New York, and now here I am. And they were, and it was just like a work begets work, and we kind of helped each other get jobs.

[1:11:29] Jason Michael Snow: And again, you know, like I was saying earlier about like I would rather earn the job than than have a nepotistic thing. It it feels nice to just have a moment where like I work my butt off and I've done this thing, and like, hey, come in and do this thing, and then later on down the road, they're like, Oh, hey, I work my butt off and I've done this thing, and hey, come do this thing, and all of a sudden we just start helping each other out, and suddenly, you know, someone gets finances and starts throwing them your way.

[1:11:51] Jason Michael Snow: I mean, Scotty and I went to go visit Ann at South Park Studios before I had to fly back to New York, and and Anne was like, Oh, Trey, show Jason and Scott your your barbershop quartet that you wrote. And he is like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you guys gotta come listen to it. And we listened to it. And he's and he was like, What do you guys think? What do you guys think? And we were like, Why are you asking us? You have Emmys.

[1:12:12] Jason Michael Snow: And he and he's like, What do you think? What do you think? And and and me being a dummy, I was like, Well, you know, you need like, you know, like those six and nights, like it needs to sound like a like an old Maxwell House coffee commercial. But it was so fun, just because like we went to like say hi to a friend who was doing something that like we all are just you know, like working, and he's like, Yeah, I can't figure this thing out.

[1:12:29] Jason Michael Snow: And we were like, Well, here's kind of a thought, and then they were like, just go do it, and you know, and it's just hilarious to kind of take a step back and be like, Yeah, but like this is like top professionals doing it. Yeah, but it it really isn't any different than just swinging by someone's house in the valley. Yeah, it's all the same stuff. You know, I think you just gotta just keep doing it and like keep, you know, like again, back actually really making it full circle.

[1:12:52] Jason Michael Snow: That to me is I think why can't competition doesn't shouldn't matter. Right. And doesn't matter because like everything happens full, everything goes around in a circle always. Right. So, like some days you might be able to help someone else, but then some days you're gonna need help. And and it just doesn't matter to be competitive with someone because like the job that I didn't get, you get, but then the job that you didn't get, I get, and then the job that neither of us got, someone else got, and it doesn't, it all comes out in the in a wash.

[1:13:16] Jason Michael Snow: It doesn't matter. You may have an arch nemesis, but you are also someone else's arch nemesis. Yes, you know, like that's that's just the tr you know, the truth of we all feel that way about each other. And instead of holding on to that and trying to blame someone else's sac success for something that you're lacking, we should just hold each other up and just try to make more opportunity for each other. Yeah, absolutely.

[1:13:40] Jason Michael Snow: Which is which is why I think you know, it's fun to have game nights coming out of auditions. Yeah. Because it doesn't because then it doesn't matter. Yeah. Um, well, thank you so much for talking with us. Is it good? I love fun. Yeah, a lot. It's nice, right? You know, to sit down, talk with your friend, and you know just remember why why we do all this.

[1:14:01] Jason Michael Snow: Well, especially because, you know, after you leave, I I'm gonna go work on my horror movie screenplay. Oh god. You got all you got a lot of pies. Talk about pies. Talk about lots of pies. It's great, especially out here, you know. Like we need you need to kind of like invent who you are in Los Angeles because you don't want somebody else to tell you uh you have to kind of decide for yourself.

[1:14:22] Jason Michael Snow: Yeah, and I think too now, you know, we're we're kind of approaching this this non-binary way of looking at everything in life. So it's like great, let's just keep not putting ourselves in boxes. Yeah. All right. Well, I adore ya. I love you. I'm so glad that we've gotten to have so much of our stories together and that we're both out here right now. Um now I'm gonna find out who that Arch Nemesis is.