This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 80 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:06] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:12] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here, your host for Living the Dream. Thank you so much for tuning in, listening, tuning in, downloading. I don't know, however, you're listening to this. Thank you for finding a way to listen to this podcast.

[0:27] Rory O'Malley: Um we have a wonderful guest today. Her name is Jennifer Simard. She is absolutely unbelievably talented. She has been in a bunch of Broadway shows. She's currently in MEAN GIRLS on Broadway. And she is someone I've known for a long time, but I've never worked with. And she's one of those people on my bucket list of people I have to be in a rehearsal room with and on a stage with at some point in my life because she's so damn funny. She was Tony nominated for her role in Disaster, the wonderful show written by Seth Rudetsky and Jack Plotnick. That was just so, so great and had a bunch of stars in it. But she was the one that got the Tony nomination because she was such a standout in that performance as the nun with a gambling addiction.

Um we talk a lot about that moment, about her Tony nomination after years in the business and working, and uh about so many different ups and downs in her career and how she has such a positive attitude. And I really kind of always admired her from afar. Because again, I said I've never worked with her, but I just I think a lot, I think very highly of her. And uh she's just always great. Um, so here is my conversation with Jennifer Simard.

[1:58] Rory O'Malley: Hi, Jennifer.

[1:59] Jennifer Simard: Hi, Rory.

[2:01] Rory O'Malley: How are you?

[2:02] Jennifer Simard: I'm very well, and it's really nice to hear from you, and I'm so honored that you asked me to be a part of your uh podcast. Thank you.

[2:10] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely, absolutely. We recently got to do a reading together, and I basically said yes to it because I heard you were doing it, and I just think you're the funniest human being. I think you are such an amazing comedic musical theater performer.

[2:28] Jennifer Simard: And um I likewise, I'm sure.

[2:31] Rory O'Malley: My goodness. Thank you. Um, so it was just it was exciting to get to sit down and and work on something, even if it was just for one day with you.

[2:40] Jennifer Simard: Well, we've sort of been um circling the boat for a while. You and I are one over the bridge and one under the bridge, because uh we both made our debut, Broadway debut in Spelling Bee.

[2:51] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[2:51] Jennifer Simard: As like there's a whole generation of us. But we never did it together.

[2:55] Rory O'Malley: I know. We just missed each other.

[2:57] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, yeah.

[2:58] Rory O'Malley: Uh it was it was a bummer. But I did I but I did see you in it.

[3:02] Jennifer Simard: I know how I've known how great you are for many, many years. Um, but I've never really gotten a chance to like sit down and and chat with you. So let's do it in front of an audience.

[3:11] Jennifer Simard: Exactly.

[3:14] Rory O'Malley: Isn't that true? That's how many, that's how many listeners we have, right? Millions.

[3:17] Jennifer Simard: So true. Millions and my mom.

[3:20] Rory O'Malley: My mom will definitely listen to this.

[3:22] Rory O'Malley: Um so where did you grow up? Where did you get your start?

[3:27] Jennifer Simard: I was born in Manchester, New Hampshire. Uh, but I grew up in a little farm town that sort of connects Manchester to Nashua, the the big cities. Uh so this little I grew up in Litchfield, New Hampshire.

[3:39] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[3:40] Jennifer Simard: Uh, which was a pretty idyllic place to grow up. It was the same kids, I knew the same kids, you know, grades one through eight. You know, there was when I was there, there was really no such thing as middle school. You just you had the same I think there were 84 kids in my graduating class or 64. I mean very small amount, under less than 90.

[3:57] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[3:58] Jennifer Simard: And and um uh yeah, it was it was so it was you were an hour north of Boston, so we were an hour west of the ocean, an hour south of the mountains. So it was just there was access to all these things, um, including the beautiful Palace Theater in Manchester, New Hampshire, which was less than a 20 minute drive from my house, and that's where I was able to see theater and you know, tours come through there.

[4:24] Jennifer Simard: At the time it was mostly local productions. Um, but it was an old vaudeville house. And it looks like any Broadway theater, but it's just a gem of a theater built in I believe 1915. And so having access to that was um really special. And so even though I grew up in this farm town, there was just a lot of culture right outside our door, so to speak, and um, you know, peace and quiet as well.

[4:49] Jennifer Simard: I actually went to Vermont every summer until I was sixteen to stay with a family friend. I grew up in Cleveland, but I had a family friend that that uh lived in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, pretty far up north, and it was my favorite place in the world. And we would drive to Littleton, uh, New Hampshire to go to this really cool bookstore that was there. We would go see the man on the mountain.

[5:12] Rory O'Malley: Oh, I know.

[5:15] Jennifer Simard: Now it's like the old forehead on the mountain, because the face it's just it's not there anymore. It's so sad. It was a it was like on the license plates and and everything. I mean we have that profile of a man.

[5:27] Rory O'Malley: Live free or die.

[5:29] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. You know, that was it was just really intense.

[5:32] Rory O'Malley: It's so intense.

[5:33] Jennifer Simard: And balance New Hampshire, balance. Jeez. I mean, I know you've got that primary, but like let's let's chill.

[5:40] Rory O'Malley: Just relax.

[5:42] Jennifer Simard: Um it's it it's it's such a beautiful place in the world.

[5:47] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, we used to j I think I I've had jokes with people from Vermont that um, oh, your state's upside down. No, your state's upside down. Because you know, we just oh that New England humor.

[5:57] Jennifer Simard: Oh, we're so flinty.

[5:59] Rory O'Malley: We're flinty.

[6:01] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[6:01] Rory O'Malley: So you so you have this lifeline to theater at at the palace. Were you able to take classes there? Is that how you started, or did you were you able to in high school and at your school? Do you have a drama program?

[6:15] Jennifer Simard: Well, I'm sure you can edit out anything that's too long, but it's sort of circuitous, isn't it? Because I think there's um such lessons in observing, or at least that's how it was for me. I saw my first show there when I was five, which is a production of Fiddler on the Roof, and we would sit as a family in the front row center uh balcony. And I remember sitting on my mother's coat and I would t I saw a little girl up there who is my age. And of course I was not having it. And I said, you know, and I just thought, Mom, I I don't want to be up here, I want to be down there. I didn't know how to how to make that happen.

[6:51] Jennifer Simard: Right. And so then we just kind of went to theater for several years and then I think found out about an audition to be a munchkin in the Wizard of Oz, a local production when I was nine years old. And um Munchkin is a gateway drug for many kids in this world. And um, I don't know if you know Nathan Herlin, who works at um for Actors Equity now at Broadway Care. He was the scarecrow in that production. So I've literally known him my whole life. And I had such a crush on him as a little girl. But um, yeah, so I you know, I start I started I I guess I started my classroom was by doing it, you know. And I, you know, got up and sang at school whenever I could. And then and I was I I became very interested in school and academics, I'd say at age 11.

And you know, other than school things, I didn't really pursue it again until I was about 16 years old. From about the age of 10 to 16. And then um then I started working with professional companies locally, and then of course, yes, I did start to study uh in college. I got accepted at the Boston Conservatory of Music.

[7:54] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[7:54] Jennifer Simard: Um, and the truth is my path was such that I stayed for a semester and then had to make a choice because I I got cast in some professional shows, and I couldn't do both. And it was and it was my choice to leave. And um honestly, just a couple years later, um probably getting ahead of myself, but I I was doing a show called Nonsense in Boston, and friends of mine who I knew from the Boston Conservatory, who'd already made the leap to New York City, told me of an audition for Forbidden Broadway. Do you want to come down for an open call? And I did. And I uh was like living with my parents when Gerard Alessandrini called me at my house in Litchfield, New Hampshire and said, Do you want to move to New York? I said, sure do.

[8:38] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

[8:40] Jennifer Simard: It is crazy.

[8:41] Rory O'Malley: It is crazy. I also love that you were in Nonsense and that nuns playing nuns is such a through line.

[8:46] Jennifer Simard: Isn't that funny? Honestly, who knew?

[8:48] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I was Sister Mary Amnesia. Um and I loved it, I loved it. That I love that show. I mean, you know, that just keeps with the Irish Catholics in Ohio.

[8:57] Jennifer Simard: No, and Dan Goggin, he came Dan Goggin, who created it, came to see Disaster, and having him reach out to me was truly a one of the greatest thrills of that experience for me because I'd been a fan of that show, I think the first time I saw it was in Boston in 1985. And so, you know, someone that you it's always so special when people you've admired who helped you get into the business end up being people that you know. I mean, how lucky are we?

[9:23] Rory O'Malley: So yeah, no, that that's that's amazing. And and so you have you have Forbidden Broadway calls, which you know, I remember getting all the the recordings of Forbidden Broadway and that was like our insider jokes of the theater nerds, you know, like love Forbidden Broadway. But it's got it had to be very scary to, you know, when your dream comes to your door, you think that it's just like, oh this is exciting and and all positive but it's also a little scary especially when you're that young. Did you have any fears when you when you accepted and went to New York to be in it?

[9:58] Jennifer Simard: Well and and let me clarify it was not at that time to be in the New York show. They it was r you had to live in New York and rehearse in New York. Uh-huh um Adam Heller was in the production with me.

[10:08] Jennifer Simard: Oh wow Kirk Kirk Mauser and uh Regina O'Malley but we were opening the Stanford Connecticut production at the the rich forum space which at that time was brand new and um so we would commute every day. And um you know I was dating someone at the time and that broke up literally a month after I moved here. So I think my focus was more on the personal sure price of literally picking up my life having only lived in one house which was a farm town to this great city and you know with this you know with this dream and I was lucky to have a job but it was just kind of scary and then the job ended in February of that year.

[10:50] Jennifer Simard: So then I'm here right um and I think I made my debut with the show in New York in August of ninety three when it was over at Theater East because um of a of an illness emergency. You know like I was one I was that person who would come in uh you know like not the permanent understudy but the the cover for the cover or the emergency swing I guess or the emergency person. You see someone they knew they could throw on with no rehearsal whatsoever.

[11:15] Jennifer Simard: Yeah and so then I did you know gigs out of town and then I didn't really do it. The first CD I was on I think was Forbidden Broadway SVU all those years later in 2005. I mean I I literally didn't yeah I didn't do it for that long. I did it in 93 and then but then I what got into the I Love You Perfect Now Change world. That was my I'd say you know Forbidden Broadway I would say I had two really big breaks that you know in that time that Forbidden Broadway got me to the city and then I Love You Perfect Now Change was the first show I originated really in the city that of note you know for me anyway that kind of changed everything.

[11:49] Rory O'Malley: I suppose we should make sure that everyone knows what Forbidden Broadway is because it is it's such a staple to to us as to it is in the New York theater community. But um it's do they still they have a theater that they're back now, right? I think they're doing or they were for a moment.

[12:08] Jennifer Simard: They did I know Gerard Alessandrini moved back to Boston for a while. I I think he might come back but he you know he um uh which is really something I admire. You know, he put family first because I think his his dad has since passed. But you know, when your parents have health issues, you gotta tend to life sometimes. But that show, um it's the never say die show. You know, it's it's I'm sure it'll it's parodies of all of all the Yes, it's parody of all the Broadway shows and um from the you know huge classics um um to current currently running Broadway shows.

[12:42] Jennifer Simard: And did they do Spamilton? Did he do Spamilton?

[12:44] Rory O'Malley: Yes, no I wasn't a part of that but he did.

[12:47] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[12:47] Rory O'Malley: Okay. And I didn't I didn't fully answer your question too as far as nerves at twenty two years old. I have to say I had the opposite happen where I think there's a um there's a little bit of um uh freedom when you're that young because you are that young like oh if I mess up I'm I'm so young. You know like oh I'm I'm you know and and then when you get older of course you have generally speaking there's exceptions to these rules but you have more um responsibilities probably financially maybe you have a family and if you if you um if you mess up or if you know there's a lot more to lose.

[13:24] Jennifer Simard: Stakes are a lot higher.

[13:25] Rory O'Malley: The stakes are higher a bit. Especially too when you know sometimes you're just gonna fail. You're not always gonna be good. And I'm the first to know if it's a stinker if I'm if I've you know had a good night or not. And um when you have all these words sort of up that have been said about you over time, it's a hard thing sometimes to live up to and I think you have to definitely remember that you're a human being the more the the larger your resume and CV grows. Do you know what I'm saying?

[13:53] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. Because when you're a kid you're like oh I'm a kid you know I you you're it you know it's like I was the baby of my family.

[13:59] Jennifer Simard: When you're the baby of the family, you get excused for a lot in my experience.

[14:03] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, well, and you haven't gone through the multiple rounds of rejection that really kind of weather you down.

[14:12] Jennifer Simard: And I'm sorry, I can't, I don't understand what you're talking about. You're gonna have to explain.

[14:18] Rory O'Malley: Can I just tell you though, like sometimes I've had people on who are, you know, I on all different parts of the business. And I get to the part of talking about rejection or having to do side work or, you know, like these things, and they really are like have no idea what I'm talking about.

[14:35] Jennifer Simard: Oh, oh, I that's I do I know, I know, but I mean it's like you don't I we've never talked about this, but I know that you are a seasoned performer, and you can't become a seasoned performer if you haven't gone through those things.

[14:52] Rory O'Malley: You can have a lot of luck early on in your career and dodge some hardships, but that if you want to continue, you're going to hit some brick walls along the way and have to pick yourself back up. How did you get through those times of rejection and having to find work outside of the business?

[15:13] Jennifer Simard: Well, um I had a lot of good girlfriends who were also in the same boat and were happy to spread the wealth in terms of leads that we had to flexible work. So I kind of got in with a babysitting circuit, you know, unofficially, which was a great way to make some money and, you know, help people out and help yourself out at the same time. As well, I worked at a bridal salon at what they used to call the bridal building, 1385 Broadway, every Saturday morning.

[15:41] Rory O'Malley: That sounds fun.

[15:41] Jennifer Simard: And it was really fun because you had a bunch of actresses who are very versed in dress up, and you'd have a bunch of brides coming in trying on dresses, and you know, we're pretty good at that. And generally speaking, they're shopping for the happiest day of their lives or their hopes and dreams for the happiest day of their lives. So there it was a really fun retail job, and because it was on Saturday mornings, there was really no conflict with auditioning.

[16:07] Rory O'Malley: That's great.

[16:07] Jennifer Simard: Um and uh yeah, and I don't think that company's there anymore, but um that I specifically worked for, but um, so I'm not gonna say their name just out of respect. But it was um respect for the dead, yeah, but it was uh it was a good job, and it was with my girlfriends, uh, you know, two of whom are uh one of them unfortunately moved away. She's still one of my dear friends, but um, you know, I just saw them, you know, two weeks ago for dinner.

[16:33] Rory O'Malley: That's nice.

[16:33] Jennifer Simard: You know, they're still um one of them, you know, you know, Sally Wilfort.

[16:36] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah.

[16:37] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, so Sally's one of my BFs, she's one of my best friends, and we've I mean we've just been, you know, and that was not something, you know, that was something that's a good thing. Sally has one of the best voices in the world.

[16:48] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah.

[16:48] Jennifer Simard: No, I'd say I grew up loving Liz Callaway's voice, and I always felt like Sally absolutely has her own voice, but like Liz, she has the ability to um make every transition up the scale sound like she's talking.

[17:04] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[17:05] Jennifer Simard: Do you know what I mean? It's um even if she's singing the most difficult notes, it feels like she's just speaking and that's communicating, communicating, yeah.

[17:12] Rory O'Malley: Which I really appreciate.

[17:13] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[17:14] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, some singers in and especially like ones who can do that over a recording are so impressive to me.

[17:23] Jennifer Simard: You know, like I I'm like basically rubber face, you know, working so hard with everything I do visually, and there are some singers who they don't need to be seen at all to communicate what they're trying to say just with their gorgeous voice and a vowel placement. It's they're a certain kind of artist.

[17:43] Rory O'Malley: Um, but let's talk a little bit about musical comedy because yeah was that what you were always drawn to?

[17:50] Jennifer Simard: Clearly you have an affinity for it and you are phenomenal comedian.

[17:55] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[17:56] Jennifer Simard: But were did you love it right away or was it because Forbidden Broadway called and that was where you first got your training in this business?

[18:05] Rory O'Malley: Um I think to your point of your which I love in your podcast about kind of going a little deep, I have to say that I've loved all different kinds of um artistic avenues.

[18:20] Jennifer Simard: And yes, musical theater because I think it was my first exposure to the industry, as I explained earlier. Um, but I also loved um television. I learned so much from comedians and television. In fact, we just lost Penny Marshall uh this week, by the by the time this airs, I guess it'll be last week.

[18:37] Rory O'Malley: That's sad.

[18:37] Jennifer Simard: But um I cried the second I heard I just tears streamed down my face. One of my best friends, I was Laverne, she was Shirley. I mean this, and truly I learned comedic timing through many people, and she was one of them.

[18:50] Rory O'Malley: That's beautiful.

[18:50] Jennifer Simard: She was absolutely 100% one of the women that I learned it from. And she'll never know that. But it's that's the God's honest truth. So I loved television sitcoms. I loved movies. I mean, uh, Madeline Kahn, the late great Madeline Kahn, I never got to meet her. She was another comedic idol of mine.

[19:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[19:07] Jennifer Simard: Um, and of course, um now I get to say that I'm friendly with some of my idols from musical theater, Bernadette Peters, Betty Buckley. You know, these are people that you grow up revering and they are my teachers.

[19:20] Rory O'Malley: That's amazing.

[19:20] Jennifer Simard: And um I um and I have to say I was really drawn to drama. I ravaged I Claudius as a kid, okay. How appropriate is that? I was nine years old watching that thing and just like a moth to a flame. I couldn't get enough of it.

[19:36] Rory O'Malley: That's fascinating.

[19:36] Jennifer Simard: I was fortunate enough to do Shakespeare um in my late teens back in New England. And this is what I meant earlier by getting beneath the surface into a larger context. Rory, I would love nothing more than to sink my teeth into a bloody good dramatic play.

[19:53] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[19:53] Jennifer Simard: Um, and sometimes I think this business what's hard is that you have to go where your bread and butter is and it's very hard sometimes to break out of the box of how people see you, especially when it when you're not independently wealthy and you don't have um, you know, I don't think that's the sole reason, but uh it can definitely give you a leg up, you know, in a few years.

[20:15] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[20:17] Jennifer Simard: I think that in order to get those things. I was very naive in in my younger years of realizing how money really does make a difference in your career.

[20:24] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[20:24] Jennifer Simard: And that I was like, well, how is that possible? You know, whoever's talented and whatever, you know, but being able to have that freedom to choose to go do a very dramatic play and not have to worry about getting paid or not in your 20s.

[20:38] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[20:39] Jennifer Simard: That changes everything. Yes, I can afford to do this black box theater play that feeds my soul. Right, you know, and not take this X, Y or G Z job that is, you know, I I'm that you know, you also learn to be very grateful for what you do get, but perhaps it's not the thing that um is gonna feed you as much.

[20:57] Rory O'Malley: Well, and instead of working at the bridal shop for on Saturdays, you know, people start their own theater companies, you know, to put uh you know, like I mean, I remember being in my 20s thinking, oh man, I wish I could do that, but I gotta get back to my financial firm.

[21:14] Jennifer Simard: And yeah, you know, it can be frustrating.

[21:18] Rory O'Malley: And to your question of how did you get through those times?

[21:21] Jennifer Simard: Um, faith, whatever that is defined as for you, because my faith has changed over the years. You know, I'm not the same person I was when I moved here, and um, and um and so a lot of that is faith in yourself, right?

[21:38] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[21:38] Jennifer Simard: And faith that um you have agency in your choices, but that somehow this belief that you can sort of feel in your gut or using your intuition, knowing if you're on the right path and if you're supposed to be here, and just not ignoring that voice.

[21:53] Rory O'Malley: That's so important.

[21:54] Jennifer Simard: And it helps, it helps. And um, yeah, uh for me it was also therapy, it was talk therapy with my friends. It was um community, share it there's a beauty in sharing your pain with friends and seeing them, you know, seeing their tears and getting outside of yourself and realizing that you're not alone.

[22:12] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[22:13] Jennifer Simard: And I think that I was just talking to my girlfriends the other day. We were both we were all as good as things are going, and I'm so happy in my life right now and got this great job. There are moments where you just wonder, okay, what are we all doing again? Let's let's regroup, let's get together, let's share, let's talk.

[22:30] Rory O'Malley: That's so true.

[22:32] Jennifer Simard: And it really's important.

[22:34] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[22:34] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, and well, it's just it's also it's it to connect and be present about where you are every day, each day, and just to to remember why you got into this business and that you are still in charge.

[22:49] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[22:49] Jennifer Simard: And it's not just happening to you, you. You you're making decisions and and you know, choosing every day and choosing to do all eight shows that week, which you know is a blessing and it's so great.

[23:01] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[23:01] Jennifer Simard: But that's one of the reasons that it's it's important to be present about it because you know it's a blessing.

[23:07] Rory O'Malley: That's a great perspective.

[23:07] Jennifer Simard: So you could for a lot of times you can take a job just knowing it's a blessing and not looking at whether it's gonna feed your soul or not, because you know it's it's important to to accept what's offered.

[23:20] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[23:20] Jennifer Simard: But you know, as you get older, that's not gonna be all that it's not gonna cut it every time, just that it's uh you know, hashtag blessed.

[23:28] Rory O'Malley: Well, yeah, and it all depends on where you are in your life, right?

[23:31] Jennifer Simard: Right.

[23:31] Rory O'Malley: What sort of um personal uh responsibilities you might have in your life, whether it's um with um children or aging family members or you know, uh something in your own something in your own life, and um and I think it's um oh gosh, you just said something.

[23:52] Jennifer Simard: You're gonna want to pause this or cut this out.

[23:54] Rory O'Malley: No, no, no.

[23:55] Jennifer Simard: You said something, you said something that really triggered something in me.

[23:59] Rory O'Malley: I love when I trigger people.

[24:01] Jennifer Simard: Oh well, that's what I've heard about you.

[24:03] Rory O'Malley: Donna Lynn Champlin warned me.

[24:05] Jennifer Simard: That's why now Yeah, we have a whole section to cut out. I made her cry like a made me cry like Barbara Walters of podcasts.

[24:13] Rory O'Malley: That's hilarious.

[24:15] Jennifer Simard: Um anyway, it couldn't have been that important. But um, yeah, it's just it depends on where you are in your life. Eight shows a week is difficult.

[24:19] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[24:19] Jennifer Simard: Um, and you know, I'm sure you have a lot of young fans who listen to this and they want nothing more.

[24:25] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[24:25] Jennifer Simard: Um and it's um I oh that's what I was gonna say. I think in any walk of life, whether it's theater, um, and those of us who are lucky enough to do eight shows a week, um, life can be tricky when you're not living a life in balance, in my opinion.

[24:42] Rory O'Malley: That's a great point.

[24:42] Jennifer Simard: And so I think one thing you have to learn when you do eight shows a week is that there's a reality to that that is not equal to the dream you have as a kid.

[24:52] Rory O'Malley: That's so true.

[24:52] Jennifer Simard: Um I was just talking with Bonnie Milligan uh about this yesterday. That, you know, she's like, I just thought, you know, you'd go to your show.

[24:58] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, oh, it's easy.

[24:59] Jennifer Simard: You just have all day and then you go to your show at night.

[25:01] Rory O'Malley: Exactly.

[25:01] Jennifer Simard: And you don't realize that your whole day and the choices of your whole day generally are geared toward being able to do your job, like literally physically, mentally, and spiritually being able to deliver.

[25:13] Rory O'Malley: That's a great insight.

[25:13] Jennifer Simard: And sometimes that's three physical therapy appointments in one day, you know.

[25:18] Rory O'Malley: That's a lot.

[25:18] Jennifer Simard: So living a life in balance is the way that I try to remain in touch with the little girl who always dreamed of doing this.

[25:29] Rory O'Malley: Does that make sense?

[25:30] Jennifer Simard: Absolutely.

[25:31] Rory O'Malley: Yes, absolutely.

[25:32] Jennifer Simard: It's part of the work, it's part of the job is remaining grounded and centered.

[25:38] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[25:38] Jennifer Simard: And you know, like I think that sometimes we as artists think that that's uh particular just to what we do.

[25:48] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[25:48] Jennifer Simard: But honestly, even if you're an accountant, you have to constantly be centered and think about why you're doing what you're doing.

[25:57] Rory O'Malley: That's a great perspective.

[25:57] Jennifer Simard: And even if you don't show up with the same amount of passion or enthusiasm, and some people do, whether they're if they're sitting at a desk or or working outside, you have to be balanced.

[26:08] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[26:09] Jennifer Simard: And that's just part of life. You know, I think that for us, we kind of think of it as because we're doing something that we're so passionate and have to put so much energy into and you know, live or die, live free or die, uh for for our art.

[26:23] Rory O'Malley: That's a callback and good.

[26:24] Jennifer Simard: There you go.

[26:25] Rory O'Malley: There you go.

[26:26] Jennifer Simard: Um, so it's it's just it's part of being alive, you know.

[26:30] Rory O'Malley: I agree.

[26:31] Jennifer Simard: Like I did I did an office job. I worked for a title company before I moved to New York, speaking of jobs while I was doing theater in New England, and I was I was a receptionist and I would do some secretarial work.

[26:43] Rory O'Malley: That's interesting.

[26:43] Jennifer Simard: And um, but you know, I had that that cubicle desk situation, and um, you know, as a creative person, I I knew that wasn't going to be the thing for me forever.

[26:53] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[26:53] Jennifer Simard: However, there is something I miss about those days, and it's I love as much as I couldn't stand the routine, I also loved it because I was able to schedule this is my gym time and it's gonna be the same.

[27:07] Rory O'Malley: That's a good point.

[27:07] Jennifer Simard: And and that is it's I think it's very challenging for those of us in this career to um one of the sorry, one of the challenges of finding the balance is because your schedule can change at a moment's notice.

[27:21] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[27:21] Jennifer Simard: You know, like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the gym Friday at two. Well, Jennifer, hello, it's blah bid blah, and we've got an appointment producer session, and that's wonderful. But it's not you know, the very thing that you love is also the thing that can be the most challenging.

[27:35] Rory O'Malley: That's a great insight.

[27:35] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, you know, yeah, I think so.

[27:37] Jennifer Simard: And I'm sure for those who are in a cubicle, you know, like the mundane, the monotony that you know, and that's why, you know, I can't stress enough.

[27:45] Rory O'Malley: What I mean by balance is what does that mean to you?

[27:47] Jennifer Simard: Is it watching Netflix reruns?

[27:50] Rory O'Malley: Is it is it what is it going to the gym? Is it a pottery class, a painting class, something that's just yours? And by the way, if I you didn't ask this, but if I could recommend something to people, I think it's something that's just yours that you don't even share in this very outward world of social media. Something that's literally just yours, you know.

[28:09] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, yeah.

[28:10] Rory O'Malley: Especially us who live so outwardly all the time.

[28:13] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, you know, you do. You have to, you have to kind of have that that special part of your life that is secret.

[28:19] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[28:20] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[28:20] Rory O'Malley: Yes, for sure. Uh, so you made your Broadway debut in 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.

[28:27] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[28:27] Rory O'Malley: And you did a few other Broadway shows after that. Um Shrek, what it was Sister Act.

[28:35] Jennifer Simard: Sister Act, that's right.

[28:36] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Another nun.

[28:37] Jennifer Simard: Again, another nun.

[28:38] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Um, but of course, your nun that is was just like pure comic genius, is was Sister Mary from Disaster.

[28:50] Jennifer Simard: And it was Sister Mary Downey.

[28:53] Rory O'Malley: Downey, yes.

[28:54] Jennifer Simard: Sister Mary Downey. Oh my God. I don't remember laughing as hard as I laughed during your performance in that show, which I saw, I believe it was their opening night off Broadway. Or I was I definitely saw you off Broadway and was like, This everyone needs to see her play this part. How did that come about and why were you so good?

[29:22] Jennifer Simard: Oh my gosh. Well, um, you know, I've been doing I've been doing sketch comedy with Jack Plotnick, the co-writer and director and Seth Rudetsky since the early to mid-90s. And um, you know, they'd been uh tooling the project around um and doing various incarnations of it, and then I was fortunate enough to do the play Unbroken Circle, uh, summer of 2013, um, which was written uh by James Wesley, who's Seth's husband, and um he was my brother, and I took over for the wonderful um Anika Larson who got cast in um Beautiful and uh Tony nominee Anika. And um, and she had actually played the nun in one of the incarnations. Anyway, she was in Beautiful, and they decided they wanted to do this run at St. Luke's. And so here I was already at St. Luke's doing this play.

And uh, you know, they'd always kind of had me in the mix, and then it was just really good, thank God, as most of these things are, it was really good timing. And so there it is. And um, I think I don't know if this will answer your question of why it was so good. Uh it was a good fit, it's a very good fit. Um, the role in terms of my preferred uh comedic styling is given the opportunity, and this was the opportunity. And I never in a million years thought that one of the greatest roles of my life would be written by two of my best friends. I mean, I never never would have imagined. And um, and the only thing I'll say is the I don't I don't really regret it, although I can't watch it. I uh uh there were we filmed the song, and the only thing I say is that I the thing I like the most about the show was all the scene work, it's even more than the song.

And I think it's important, like most things, that you consider it in context, because I think that's one reason it was so successful, is that as you know, because you saw it, everything else is so repressed and quiet and dry. Really so that so that so that there's a payoff to the number. And so that's the only if there's a regret I have, it's that it would be great if the whole production was available because that's it, then it makes sense. But that but I'm picky like that. I can't watch certain episodes I filmed on television for the same reason. Like if they I'm very Tom Cruise that way. I I understand that he has he has editing rights, right? I would like gosh, if I could just have editing rights to anything I've ever filmed, I'd be a much happier camper.

But I'm just kind of controlling that way. So I have to own that. But um, so thank you for your compliments. It really means a great deal to me. I um I wish it would have run longer because it was just a real dream come true. That's it. That's all I can say.

[32:12] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah, no, I I do too. And I I think that it's still it made such a huge mark on Broadway because it really was uh Seth and Jack putting together the greatest musical theater comedians and performers in one show and saying, let them loose and let's see what happens. And it was just it was uh it was very special, and I think that it's really kind of given way to more shows like that, like like the prom, like it's not the exact same thing, but I think that you have a show that's like, no, this is gonna be about people who are really funny and really good on a stage, and I think that it's really given uh a lot more um emphasis on being a musical theater comedian and letting like like almost like that sketch artist style in a show, which you know, like I think just musical comedy, sometimes shows aren't that funny, and yes, and I just think it's so important to be funny, and I think that disaster was incredibly funny and wasn't going to uh ask for forgiveness for that or try to be something that it wasn't. It was just so damn funny. And you were you were so magnificent in it. You got a Tony nomination. Uh what did that feel like?

[33:42] Jennifer Simard: I was in Cold Spring, New York, where I um had a house at the time, and um I um we it was a rainy day, and I we went down by the water and we were standing in the gazebo, and um I got a text message from my brother, and you know, I cried and hugged my husband, and you know, we just stood in the rainy gazebo crying, saying, I love you, I love you, I love you. Because you know, we didn't have two nickels to rub together when we first started dating, honestly. And so to we really, you know, we're partners. I I honestly can say I don't I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have had that without my husband, you know. We we really are partners and we've been there through through thick and thin and you know, death and all this.

So it was ever so to answer your question. I'm sorry I'm digressing, but it's what I'm trying to say is we've been through so much life together. So what it felt like to me that day, what I'm gonna cry just talking about it, it felt like a lifetime. It felt like a lifetime of work and love and you know, my family, just everyone supporting me, and I didn't need to win. Like literally, it felt like, oh my gosh, I got a Tony nomination. Are you kidding? It was really a child's dream come true. I I can't say it enough. I'm I can't believe it happened. You know, um, and you did Barbara Walters Me, me I'm now crying on your podcast. It's Michael. I've made playing the long game here.

[35:12] Rory O'Malley: You succeeded.

[35:13] Jennifer Simard: I haven't, you know, it was a few years ago. I haven't thought about it in a long time. And um, yes, hashtag grateful hashtag blessed gets a bad rap, but that's and we all joke about it. I'm guilty of that too. I joke about it too, but that is how I felt truly. Like just taking it in and really, really um, there are moments where that is the only thing that you can say and it's totally sincere. And you know, as as someone who had the same experience and I know how genuine you are when you had it feel for you in exactly the same way. And then too to say that it's not um about winning. It really was it felt like being being uh rewarded or being, you know, uh something that I couldn't celebrate with my family and and celebrate with the people who have supported, supported me and and my my boyfriend at the time now husband, to to be able to say, you know, all the sacrifices that they had to make that all the the times of me being away and yeah and the and the the work and the and the struggle through financially that it was being recognized and uh it's the most beautiful thing in the world to be able to give that to to the people that you love.

[36:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and I know like me, I'm sure we I don't mean to disrespect the people that actually won, because that's ex that's an experience that is its own thing, I'm sure. I can't even imagine what that's like. But as I said at the time, you know, you can't win until you've been nominated. So it just felt like this doorway into a world that I didn't know uh that I didn't know before. Um it was overwhelming. And you had so much love uh for you uh in the community because people know you and people were you were also representing the show in a in a major way because um uh you know everyone loved the show and this was the the nomination, and they were you were representing your whole cast in a way too. And um and everyone was just so uh excited about your performance. There was like a whole movement to get you to perform on the Tonies. I mean, and it was like a legit movement.

[37:32] Jennifer Simard: I couldn't believe it.

[37:32] Rory O'Malley: I know, I know. I think my friend Andrew Bradis started it and it took off. And I I didn't it was one of those things where someone had to make me aware of it. They said, Jen, do you know what's going on? I was like, I'm sorry, what? And then I could not believe it. And to my to the my cast, I just want to say the cast of disaster. M uh many of the principals in that show had they were either Tony winners or Tony nominees, and um, and they it they really did make me feel like um that old Saturday Night Live Sketch, the Five Timers Club, you know, like really, you know, and I just and they were so sweet, and I'll never forget the day because we got our closing notice the day the nominations came out.

And I remember um Adam and Kevin Um both said to me right before I entered the stage, like, Jen, you know that because of what happened, you're gonna get entrance applause. I said, I know, peace up. No, and that's what happened. And it was so sweet to see them know what the experience was going to be for me before I did, because they'd all been through it, you know.

[38:33] Rory O'Malley: And um, and I do want to say this. Rachel York is in my top three of the nicest people I've ever worked with in my life.

[38:40] Jennifer Simard: Is that right?

[38:41] Rory O'Malley: And I think people forget that um she did not, we all thought she was gonna get a Tommy nomination for Victor Victoria. Do you remember this? And it didn't actually happen. And because she's so she's such a star and her body of work speaks for itself, and she's so glamorous and so talented, she actually still doesn't have one, which does I like I feel like I'm getting my facts wrong. And if I could say anything to the world, I'm like, please, someone change that because this woman is incredible. Did you see her too in Head Over Heels?

[39:12] Jennifer Simard: I didn't see her in Head Over Heels, but I did see her in Victor Victoria when I was a kid.

[39:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I came to New York and and was like blown away by her.

[39:21] Jennifer Simard: She's she's incredible.

[39:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[39:23] Jennifer Simard: And the nice she's just the nicest person in the world. So anyway, that's my if I ran the world, there it is.

[39:29] Rory O'Malley: Well, I mean, for for uh uh to get a Tony nomination and to be surrounded by that cast of people who know what it's worth and to have those people be so proud and excited for you.

[39:40] Jennifer Simard: That's what I forgot to say. The reason I brought up Rachel, she did she actually said in an interview, uh an interview with the D She's like, Well, if there's justice in the world, Jennifer will get a Tony nomination. Like she's in the show with me. Right. And that's what a generous person she was. Can you believe that? That's what she said. I mean, that that's those are the kind of people I was working with. So I just I I can't say enough about them. You know, like they they made it, they made it so special for me. And I I don't know what to say, except I'm so grateful. And I miss them. I love them.

[40:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Well, I mean, those are you know, going through an experience like that, you know, you'll all be friends for life. It's it's yeah, you know, a lot of casts you can say that to such a certain degree, but in a it through an experience like that, you guys are all gonna be close forever. Um so let's talk a little bit about your your husband because you touched on how that was your Tony nomination, how that was so important. He's in the business, he's a designer.

[40:35] Jennifer Simard: Not uh close. He's a he's on he's not an actor, uh, but he is a stage hand. He's a local biopsy stage hand.

[40:44] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[40:44] Jennifer Simard: Okay. So you guys met working on a show.

[40:48] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, we met um off Broadway years and years ago. Uh I love you, you're perfect, and we were just friends. Uh I love your perfect now change. We were just friends and dating other people. And then uh I think um I my relationship ended and his did too. And we kind of started bonding intellectually over the election of 2000. And I was kind of drawn to his mind of mostly. And uh I was like, hey, you wanna you know I think he went out on tour and um he wrote an email that he included me on, and I remember saying how mellifluous his language was. And I never used that word in my life. It's never it's the word I didn't even know I knew. Right. Uh, but that's what it was. It was mellifluous and vocab word in the back of your eye. And um, yeah, and he and I asked him out and he uh he said yes. And um, I thought it was really just gonna be casual thing. I really didn't I wasn't thinking it was gonna be the person I would end up marrying, honestly.

[41:47] Jennifer Simard: But it's funny. You know, like you don't I mean, I didn't think that when I was starting to date my now husband. You just kind of are on a date and you're like you can't imagine like, oh yeah, this is gonna be forever. I when some people say that they knew right away, I'm like, how do you how do you think that far ahead? Like but it is, it is funny when that that moment when or those that, you know, I guess that's not a moment, but that over time when you're like, Oh, wait a minute, this is my person.

[42:18] Yeah. And he um and I think you can have uh one thing in my youth, I used to believe in a soulmate, and right now in my in my old age, I I believe I believe you can have many soulmates. Um and God forbid something should happen to him or to myself. But I do know that um life is a choice, and I know that I chose and I think there are different kinds of love, and I know I chose someone who I um love and respect and the kind of love that can last the um many through many seasons, if you know what I mean.

[42:56] Sure. You know, I chose a thing.

[43:01] Yeah, and and supporting me, like I there was a time, for example, where we had to go we did a uh an actor's fund performance of disaster out in Los Angeles, and it was right after my mother died. And I had gotten offered some things the fall my mother died, um, off Broadway things that had I been single, I probably would have had to take just to pay my bills. And instead, because I'm married to this wonderful person who was able to pick up the slack, I was able to truly be there for this most significant life experience of losing my favorite human being.

[43:36] Yeah, you know, and to truly be there. And he slept over in the hospital with me, with her, um, when he could get away from work, and then um and then I was able to go not miss this actor's fund performance in Los Angeles with the cast that um uh you know, ninety percent of it ended up being the cast that was taken to Broadway.

[43:56] So and what I didn't know is that, you know, like uh who knew, but I had I had I missed that, I actually don't know if I would have come with the Broadway show. I mean, I really don't.

[44:07] And that's because I didn't have to take some job to pay my you know bills because I'm married, and that's not the only reason I'm with my husband, obviously. But I'm just saying that when I when I was so grateful for the Tony nomination, it wasn't just for myself, it was for this person who helped me in some of the darkest moments of my life be able to make the kind of choices that facilitated that wonderful moment.

[44:32] Right. And so it wasn't just mine, it was because of other people.

[44:36] And you never you even if you think you do things alone, I I don't believe you do. I don't know. You have you always have people who are there for you.

[44:43] Oh, yeah. No, it's it's definitely a group effort, you know, whether it's your friends or your or you know, your your spouse or your loved ones.

[44:51] It's you need a team to keep you sane at the very least.

[44:55] I need a I need a staff now, Roy.

[44:57] I need a staff.

[44:57] I know, I know.

[44:58] And I need a wife.

[44:59] I need a yes, I know.

[45:01] I know I've I've thought that too. I'm I'm a gay man, I have a great husband, but sometimes we need a wife, like we're like I need a wife.

[45:08] Uh yeah, I know, I know. I'm looking into it.

[45:11] So yeah.

[45:12] Okay, so now you are in MEAN GIRLS on Broadway.

[45:17] And it is such a fun show, and you get to play so many great characters.

[45:21] Yeah.

[45:22] Yeah. What has that experience been like for you?

[45:24] Well, it's like going home. It's like riding a bike because this is what I used to do. This is how I made as it, you know, forbidden Broadway impersonating many, like 11 people a night. I love you, perfect now change. 11 characters, you know, 11 characters for, you know, a much smaller salary and half the resources. You know what I mean?

[45:43] So so for me three characters while I respect that that you know that that's not easy it's um it really is for me just like an exciting bike with the beautiful basket on the front and the light that you you know like it's just cleaning off that old your old favorite bike and you know and I um I'm loving it it just reminds me of how I mean it's how I started and to be able to do it um on the other side of eighth avenue you know yeah yeah that's is um yeah I I remember really quick I was on an M104 bus in days of your because I was kind of like with Julia Murney we were like the off Broadway queens right and couldn't seem to break through and get that Broadway show and I um I was on the M104 and I looked to my right and I think hairspray and Jersey boys were playing and I we were stuck at a traffic light at 52nd street and I looked to my right and I did think I thought gosh am I ever going to be on that side of Eighth Avenue and now not only am I on that at side of eighth Avenue I'm on that actual street and I need to say I'm so hashtag blessed hashtag grateful because it's what I always wanted and I think that's so important to remember you know that that to go wait a minute I always wanted this.

[46:57] Yeah do you under do you understand what's happening?

[46:59] And it truly is one of the greatest jobs of my life I cannot get over it.

[47:04] I'm so happy yeah you you also are like it spelling B for us was a lot of young people getting their equity cards and making their Broadway debuts.

[47:13] That's you know probably the same for mean girls.

[47:17] You have a lot of the younger uh they're all very seasoned.

[47:21] I'm not trying to say that they aren't.

[47:22] Oh gosh, yeah.

[47:23] There's gotta be some young, some young folks there.

[47:25] Let me put it this way.

[47:26] Let me put it this way. One of the boys, I call him a boy, one of the men, one of the young men who's such a talent, just celebrated his 21st birthday.

[47:36] Yeah.

[47:37] Okay.

[47:38] I was I I I I was 27 when he was born.

[47:43] Let's let's just let that sink in.

[47:45] I know.

[47:45] It's kind of shocking, right?

[47:47] I mean, I was in I Love Your Perfect Nudge. It was the first full year of that show. I mean, I and that that was and that's true across the board.

[47:54] Like literally, I think even the um like my friend Barrett, who's my Barrett Wilbert Weed, who's um Janice, she's also my dressing roommate, and I love her so so much.

[48:09] But you know, she just celebrated her 30th birthday.

[48:11] Well, you know, I could have had her at 18 years old.

[48:15] You know what I mean?

[48:17] That's what we're talking here about.

[48:20] I mean, I Rory, I look 10 years younger.

[48:23] That's a challenge of this business.

[48:24] When people actually know your age and you're like, yeah, but I'm slamming.

[48:26] So I'm like, you know, uh, you do look you do look very young.

[48:31] It's an interesting you do.

[48:33] And yeah, I think that's gotta be also interesting.

[48:36] Because I I kind of get this too, where I I've wanted to go in for character roles, and they're like, no, he can't play the dad, or he can't, you know, and not to say that I look super young, but a lot of times I can't get that older role unless I have a beard or something that I can fit a hat.

[48:53] In all seriously, no, in all seriousness, I don't mean to shine you on or or be uh sound like the most arrogant person in the world. I don't mean that. I just mean that it this business is a little kooky that way because you technically do age out of a lot of roles that you you could actually look exactly the same age as someone who's 10 years younger than you, but because they, the collective, they know you're older, you don't stand a chance.

[49:16] Right. You know what I mean? Or vice versa, you look they you're you're too young, even though you read older, and it's um, you know, it is um challenging, you know, in that in that sense, you know.

[49:27] Well, especially for um for women, there's so many more challenges, and that's it's kind of harder to navigate roles.

[49:36] You've though found a lot of success in well, you've you've always been working, but you've you've found a lot of success, and especially because you are you are your characters and your character work is so rich and so good.

[49:49] Do you feel like it's gotten easier over time, or do you feel like there are just more challenges as a woman?

[49:59] For me, I guess I think any woman would answer differently. And depending on the day, my answer might be different. But I'm in a place right now where um, and by the way, I want to see PubCrawl, and I I just did my first solo show Stigma this fall.

[50:13] Oh yeah, it went great.

[50:15] And the thing is you have to to me, I was like specific, narrow, researchable question, right? Uh you had I wanted to do something because you could do so many different shows, right? It could be like at least you know, songs that the audience wants to hear. It could be never could say goodbye, it could be the finale, or it could be all the like the Broadway volume songbook. It could be a jazz show.

[50:34] And so I just this show I decided was a very specific thing, and I it's what I wanted to do.

[50:39] But one of the things I talk about, because it was more I think performance art than even cabaret, but one of the things I talk about towards the end of the show was um I am I allowed to swear on your podcast.

[50:50] You are go for it.

[50:51] Okay. Um, but you know, basically, you know, running out of fucks to give. Just, you know, like just don't, you know, and that's a great thing about that I've experienced about getting older I literally don't have I say in my show it's like you know you what they don't tell you at 18 is you're given a large a giant jar of fucks you know and you're just handing them out you're handing them out as frantically as you can and you're apologizing while you're doing I'm sorry I'm sorry here I'm gonna give you a fucking I'm gonna give you one and you want a new one.

[51:17] And you know when you get to a certain age you look in your jar and you literally are running out of fucks to give so you just don't give as many.

[51:23] And I I it's it's uh that is how I feel so I don't really waste a lot of energy or time on stuff that I can't control.

[51:33] Yeah I can't do it anymore.

[51:35] I can't I can't so for me it has gotten while I say that oh yeah I wish someone would see me for this part or that part or consider me for you know um for the this that or the other I don't if I can't control it I'm not gonna worry about it.

[51:51] You know so for me it's gotten easier because I just I care but I care about what I can control.

[51:57] Right.

[51:57] And anything else buy because it it exhausts me and it it ruins my quality of life.

[52:05] Yeah yeah it really that is that's really interesting.

[52:08] I love how how you're saying like the the easier isn't because things are coming more easy to you or or you're getting offers in a different way it's because your experience that you can choose how you feel about it all is my perspective.

[52:22] My perspective has changed yeah yeah yeah and that's also comes with my mother dying honestly I think that's where it started because you just really realize I you really realize what's important.

[52:32] Yeah.

[52:32] Truly.

[52:33] Yeah.

[52:34] I it's funny.

[52:34] I always say say this, and I don't know if it's wise or stupid, but I always say, like, life is um short, but an actor's life is very long.

[52:46] Like every we kind of like you just need to keep moving forward because there's going to be a new experience, a new job, a new something.

[52:55] And if you are panicked about not having it all in this moment right now, then you're wasting time.

[53:02] That you're just it's it's a fool's errand to spend your your uh anxiety on on stuff in this business.

[53:09] And that just takes a lot of time of going through it.

[53:13] You know, I I mean I wish I could talk to 25 year old Rory and just tell him to calm the fuck down.

[53:21] Yeah.

[53:22] Yeah.

[53:22] But he had too many fucks to give.

[53:24] He still had a like almost full jar.

[53:26] And I'm sure if there are young people listening, I'm sure some of them don't, and I I know some of them, and I look at them with such admiration, like, oh, you're so far ahead of the game.

[53:34] Good for you.

[53:34] Good for you.

[53:35] You're right.

[53:36] You're right.

[53:36] Some people don't have that, but I definitely did, yeah.

[53:41] I did.

[53:41] Yeah, and like you said, apologies and and and needing permission and and you know, uh maybe validation or something that was definitely I needed someone in charge to tell me it was okay to keep going.

[53:54] Yeah.

[53:55] And I don't need that person anymore.

[53:58] Not anymore.

[53:59] I love it.

[54:00] They're not getting rid of me.

[54:02] Not even if they tried.

[54:05] Um I love it. I I just I'm so grateful to you that you took the time during your eight show week to to talk with me. I I am I respect your work on stage so much, and you're such a lovely human being.

[54:18] And you are as well.

[54:19] Thank you.

[54:20] And I certainly hope that we get to work together someday.

[54:22] That I'm putting that up on my vision board.

[54:25] I think that it would be such a treat to get to be in a a show with you and and uh you know I I I think the world of you I do too my friend and um you the privilege is mine.

[54:37] You've really made my day when I got that email from you.

[54:40] I was like that is good even though it took me a week to get back to you.

[54:43] Please listen I'm I'm in baby world right now in like feedings and stuff so no congratulations again it's so thrilling and hence what's important right yeah right no it's true it's like when when when stuff in your in your life happens uh you know good or bad that's that's real it really reminds you to to not take this business so seriously and just keep moving forward.

[55:07] Um well happy holidays happy new year yes and hopefully we'll get to see each other more next year and some full amazing project that we're gonna envision okay we're gonna we're gonna vision board it we're gonna do the we're gonna do the artist's way we're gonna do on morning pages that's right see you later audition side job swim in upstream believe it or not you'll live in the dream.