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[0:01] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 82 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:06] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:12] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers. Thank you so much for listening to Living the Dream. I'm your host, Rory O'Malley, and this is a very special episode because it's gonna be the last one for a little while. And that's sad, but it's also really exciting because I've been asked to take over hosting duties of another podcast, another theater podcast called Unscripted that is produced by the Geffen Playhouse here in Los Angeles, and is put out into the world by Podcast One, which is a major podcast network.

[0:47] Rory O'Malley: And that's great news for a couple of reasons. First of all, I wasn't sure how much longer I could keep doing this podcast on my own now that I'm a dad. I've been able to continue it through jobs and a crazy schedule. However, being a parent is not just taking up all my time. I want to give it all my time. Any extra amount of time I have is gonna go to this baby. And I'm just really enjoying that, this newborn in my house. So I'm so excited that this has come about by talking with the Geffen and Podcast One that they have this podcast that they're looking for a host, and it's pretty much in line with what we've been doing here on Living the Dream.

[1:37] Rory O'Malley: So I'm going to be hosting that podcast, and we'll be continuing to have great guests from the theater world. I kind of think of it as the intersection of Broadway and Hollywood because of course we're in Los Angeles, so so many of the people doing theater out here or speaking to me in Los Angeles are also in the TV and film arena as well. So it's kind of a cross-section of TV, film, and theater. And I could not be more honored to take over hosting duties and work with a great place like the Geffen Playhouse and Podcast One.

[2:17] Rory O'Malley: So we have already done an episode and it will be coming out next week. I believe Wednesday the 23rd, January 23rd. Don't hold me to that, but I'll let you know through this podcast when to switch over. So, what I want you to do is go to Unscripted. However, you're listening to this is how you can listen to the new podcast. And I want you to subscribe to the Geffen Playhouse's Unscripted Podcast, which will now be hosted by me. And we'll have a lot of these great conversations, and I will be able to, I think, put out even more over the long run because I'm gonna have a producing partner and a team, and I'm just so grateful.

[3:07] Rory O'Malley: Doing this has taken a lot of work. Every bit of it has been worthwhile and great, but getting to have a team is something that I'm gonna be really, really grateful for, and I won't take for granted for a second. So it's great news. It's definitely a little bittersweet because doing this in my home on my garage band has definitely been one of the most, I don't know, just having a conversation with you from my home and inviting people over, going to their houses, you know, it's very much a mom and pop operation we got going on here.

[3:48] Rory O'Malley: Well, at least a pop and pop operation. And my husband has put up with a lot of recording sessions in the middle of the night and me trying to figure out everything technically. Anyway, I'm going on and on. But I'm really grateful for all of you listening to this podcast. And you're the reason that I'm gonna be able to have this great opportunity. So this one is going to be put on hiatus. I don't think you should unsubscribe from it because I'm gonna maybe be putting out messages or doing episodes here and there that are a little more specific to the ups and downs of the business. And you know, we'll see. We'll see how it goes over there with Unscripted, but I could not be more excited and thrilled. So I hope you join me over there.

[4:35] Rory O'Malley: My guest for Living the Dream today is the great Julia Murney, who I've wanted to have on for a long time. I'm so glad she was able to talk with me. We reconnected a lot over the fall because she was so helpful during the Belt the Vote campaign, getting people registered to vote in the Broadway community. And she is a powerhouse. She is such an amazing performer, an incredible singer, and she has been around. She grew up in New York, and she's a New Yorker through and through. So she knows that town inside and out. And she has had such great success, and she has a lot of wisdom to impart on you. And I certainly learned a lot in talking with her. And she still has just a great attitude, which I really, really appreciate. Here is my conversation with Julia Murney. I hope that you join me for my next conversation, which will be on the Unscripted podcast with the Geffen Playhouse.

[5:42] Rory O'Malley: Good, good. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

[5:47] Julia Murney: I'm so flattered to be here.

[5:50] Rory O'Malley: Of course. Of course, we got to reconnect over the fall because you were so helpful and instrumental in everything that we were doing with the Belt the Vote, the voter registration campaign in the theater community. You were amazing.

[6:03] Julia Murney: I think it worked well too.

[6:05] Rory O'Malley: Yes. I felt like it worked pretty well. People voted. They voted, they showed up, and I think that the community really responded all across the country. And we're gonna do an even better job in 2020.

[6:17] Julia Murney: Exactly. I just hope that people don't have the reaction of, well, my candidate didn't win, so that's it. I'm not voting now.

[6:24] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, no, that's our challenge for next time.

[6:28] Julia Murney: Exactly. It never ends. The work never ends. As soon as you rest on your laurels, you realize that there are people who are not sharing your same interests who are working harder. So you have to bust your buttons.

[6:41] Rory O'Malley: That's funny. What is that just like? That's just like something else.

[6:46] Julia Murney: Yeah.

[6:47] Rory O'Malley: Show business.

[6:48] Julia Murney: Exactly, exactly. Interesting. I'm really looking forward to our conversation because I feel like every time I've had a conversation with you, whether it's about the business or anything in life, you're very forthcoming, honest, and real. And that's what I look for in these conversations. But let's start at the beginning with you, because I don't know your entire story. Where did you grow up and how did you get started in theater?

[7:14] Julia Murney: I grew up in New York City. I am one of those odd people who grew up in Manhattan.

[7:19] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[7:20] Julia Murney: My father is an actor. And all of mostly all of my friend parents' friends were actors. And so I was around it, although I never performed. I mean, I was in like the school play of Hansel and Gretel. I was a gingerbread man or something like that.

[7:44] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[7:44] Julia Murney: But the schools that I went to didn't do shows or anything, but I got into choir in junior high. And that's when I started singing.

[7:57] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[7:58] Julia Murney: And I knew musicals, I knew some musicals, but I didn't, I wasn't like an aficionado by any stretch. But then I, my freshman, the summer after my freshman year in high school, my parents forced me to go to summer camp under my very loud protestations. Because they were just basically like, you can't just hang out in the city again this summer, you have to go to camp.

[8:30] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[8:30] Julia Murney: And I did not want to go. Why did I not want to go? I don't know, because I was being annoying.

[8:37] Rory O'Malley: Did you have your pick being an annoying teenager? Did you have your pick of what camp you would go to?

[8:42] Julia Murney: Well, no. What happened was basically, they got brochures from most of the arts-minded camps in the Northeast. And I remember the brochures would come in and I would read them, and I would be like, Yeah, that's great, but I'm not going to camp. Little witch. And then they more or less put them in a hat and picked one, and that's where I was forced to go.

[9:12] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[9:13] Julia Murney: And it was a camp called Stage Door Manor. That was very, very, I mean it's a theater camp.

[9:22] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[9:22] Julia Murney: And the majority of campers who went there, they didn't just know Annie like I did. They knew everything. It's a really intense camp. You are in rehearsal all the time, or you're doing a show or you're doing class. And I did my first show there. It was Applause. I was, you know, fourth gypsy from the left.

[9:49] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[9:50] Julia Murney: It was directed by Mark Sachs, who is a big casting director now for New York City.

[9:54] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[9:56] Julia Murney: Stage Door Manor. A lot of people have come out of Stage Door Manor.

[10:00] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[10:01] Julia Murney: And I thought it was the most fun thing. And again, I had been around theater because of my dad and all of his friends.

[10:12] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[10:13] Julia Murney: But this was the first time I had been in a show show. We had done choir competitions and stuff like that, which I definitely enjoyed, but I wasn't in any kind of a this is what I want to do with my life thing.

[10:27] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[10:28] Julia Murney: And then I went to two summers at Stage Door, wherein I played appropriate roles such as Honyak in Chicago.

[10:38] Rory O'Malley: Uh-huh.

[10:39] Julia Murney: Sure, the next which would, and then the next summer I was Mazeppa in Gypsy.

[10:45] Rory O'Malley: Ooh.

[10:45] Julia Murney: And Anita in West Side Story.

[10:49] Rory O'Malley: Okay.

[10:50] Julia Murney: Okay. Well now we're really getting somewhere. I mean, and that's where I started doing and then I went to Syracuse University for musical theater.

[11:02] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[11:03] Julia Murney: So you were in Stage Door Manor, but that was during high school or was that during junior high?

[11:11] Rory O'Malley: That was during high school. I went my freshman and sophomore summers of high school and then my junior summer I went to the Carnegie Mellon summer program.

[11:22] Julia Murney: Nice.

[11:23] Rory O'Malley: Nice. And so is that when you decided you're like this is what I want to do in college? Was it or was it already like set in stone?

[11:23] Julia Murney: No, it definitely was not set in stone, but there was a little bit of a lazy river about it because I wasn't, I was a good student. I mean, I was good. I was terrible in math and science, but I was very good in English and history and writing, but I didn't, nothing had caught on like a passion.

[11:52] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[11:53] Julia Murney: And oh sorry, the dogs.

[11:53] Rory O'Malley: No worries, we love pets on Living the Dream.

[12:01] Julia Murney: Dizzy inappropriate, we like our dogs.

[12:07] Rory O'Malley: Don't you stop, yeah exactly. I have one with me right now who's a real talker and the other one sometimes jumps on in a very like me too, me too.

[12:17] Julia Murney: Right.

[12:17] Julia Murney: But I feel like if my dad was a pharmacist, right, and my family knew pharmacies, maybe I would have become a pharmacist. But in that sort of, I guess I'll do that way. And that's kind of how I fell into acting a little bit because I was like, I guess I could do that. I mean, especially when you're growing up in New York City and it's all around you. I mean, I can imagine if you had the set of places. But there's also no community theater.

[12:52] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:53] Julia Murney: There is no that those opportunities to be, you know, a child in Christmas Carol and all that kind of stuff. The opportunities are you audition and get into like the Nutcracker at ABT every year. Or like it's all on a level that you kind of want to need to be focused on it. And I wasn't.

[13:16] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[13:17] Julia Murney: So that's where Stage Door really changed my life because I was like, oh, well, this is fun.

[13:26] Rory O'Malley: So when you went to college, but I wasn't sorry, when you went to college and you were surrounded by that, and it was an in, but it's a great university overall. Did you get to participate in other classes or was it very conservatory style?

[13:42] Julia Murney: Well, no. And that was the thing that I learned when I went to Carnegie Mellon for the summer.

[13:47] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[13:48] Julia Murney: That because a lot of the students, not a lot, but some students who are at the program stay for the summer and they teach or whatever they, you know, and I remember talking to one of them, and she said, point blank, Oh, yeah, I don't know anyone who's outside of the drama department.

[14:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[14:07] Julia Murney: Because they're really conservatory based. And I, something clicked in my head about that, and I was like, I don't want that.

[14:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I don't want that.

[14:15] Julia Murney: And I knew I want also growing up in New York, I for whatever reason, I craved, I wanted a university experience.

[14:23] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[14:23] Julia Murney: Where we had grass and trees and a quad and sports teams. Because my high school, I went to what is now known as LaGuardia School of the Arts.

[14:32] Rory O'Malley: Uh huh.

[14:33] Julia Murney: So I went to a, it's the school the movie Fame is based on. And so I went to that school. I was a voice major. So it was already very arts centric. And I just, I knew I wanted to be, didn't want to be completely surrounded by Carnegie folk.

[14:52] Julia Murney: And just for the um the uh uh what's the word I'm looking for diversity of it all.

[15:00] Yeah.

[15:00] And um and I doubt I and certainly like my first two years at college, my roommates were not theater majors. My I I had season tickets to like football and basketball and lacrosse, and um and I would get teased by my sort of core group of friends up at my dorm.

[15:21] If I would come home and be like, I'm so tired. They're like, Oh, did you have a long day? Did you have to tap dance in the rain?

[15:28] Yeah.

[15:29] And there was a little part of me that felt like that like took on their their shame. And then another part of me was like, Would you like to go to a class at eight in the morning where then you wouldn't have to lie on the floor and not fall asleep?

[15:41] Yes.

[15:42] Good luck.

[15:42] Yeah.

[15:43] Because we have to like, you know, yeah. But um, yeah, so that's uh so you had it, you had a real diverse education, not just in what the classes were, but the people that you were surrounded by, and especially for somebody who grew up in New York City, who's gonna be in that world and you probably knew you were going back to New York City when you were graduating, it was a completely different experience.

[16:08] What what did New York City feel like though once you graduated and you had this whole new set of tools as a as a performer?

[16:15] Um well I sort of cheated because I in with my parents.

[16:22] Uh-huh.

[16:23] And and I lived with them for almost 10 years.

[16:25] Oh, that's college.

[16:26] Great.

[16:27] Had a very large apartment.

[16:29] Uh huh.

[16:29] And they were very kind and never charged me rent.

[16:32] It's amazing.

[16:33] And um and so the part I never had um the experience in New York of getting here for the first time and having and either being um like sort of swept away by the lights and the buzz and the the ferocity of it.

[16:58] I never had that because I always lived here.

[17:00] Right.

[17:00] But I also never had how do I live here?

[17:03] Yeah.

[17:04] Where where do I live?

[17:06] What do you I like I just moved in with my parents.

[17:10] Yeah.

[17:10] Um I mean, that's the amount of time that you saved, you know, that took me almost a decade to figure out how to live in a major city, you know, whether it was New York City or Los Angeles, you just knew that was that's how you lived.

[17:25] It was probably harder for you to figure out how to live in Syracuse.

[17:29] It's one of the it's one of the things like when I teach that I if we get into that kind of a topic, yeah. If they're if I'm dealing with seniors and they're they're about to move to New York, that I don't quite know how to help them.

[17:40] I'm like, I can you can text me anytime if you need to know like what train goes where, I'll help you.

[17:46] Yeah.

[17:46] But a a lot of that other stuff is a little foreign to me.

[17:51] Um but did the business feel like when you also obviously you also had your your your father and your family giving you guidance to start a career, but when you went out into audition rooms and all of a sudden it's not just stage door manner, it's trying to be a professional.

[18:08] Did you feel like everything had changed or what were you did you have?

[18:13] I think the truth be told, I was never, and I mean, to this day, some often I'm not the most confident person uh-huh in my own capabilities, not in my own capabilities, that's not true, but just that that anything will happen.

[18:33] Right.

[18:33] I guess you don't have expectations.

[18:38] No.

[18:39] And I I know so many people who come from the land of I always knew I wanted to do this and I never gave up, and I knew I'm like, wow, what is that like?

[18:48] Right.

[18:48] That's amazing.

[18:50] Uh and I was more like, I guess I'll do this and maybe it'll work out, and you know, and this is this business is not for the weak of heart, and it is not for um I I think confidence can serve you in an extraordinary way.

[19:10] Well, we all can get you through.

[19:12] We all have at least a basic level of confidence because if we didn't, we would have been sh we would have been running for the hills long ago.

[19:21] Let me say exactly.

[19:23] And what to to walk in a room and basically say, Pick me.

[19:26] Yeah, you have some sort of confidence.

[19:28] Yeah um well it's dealing with rejection like dealing with rejection on a regular basis you become a professional at dealing with ejection I feel like that's more of our job than even performing sometimes because we certainly have to think what we do for a job is yeah we audition and we deal with rejection that's what our career is right and then sometimes we get to do shows or TV or movies.

[19:54] Our reward for for dealing with the rejection and I also feel that way about when you if you get lucky enough to have a job that pays really well you're not necessarily getting paid for that job you're getting paid for all of the stuff that you did for five dollars.

[20:10] Right and it's like a weird cute cumulative effect.

[20:16] Yeah and I I it's it's funny because you know so many because it's just as hard.

[20:20] Yes right I mean it's just as hard to do uh uh to put up a show at a community theater as it is at the Richard Rogers on Broadway.

[20:32] I mean they're different but it's the same basic thing.

[20:36] Right and and then when you're if you happen to get into anything that has a long run that's something you can't even um you can't train for that.

[20:48] In college I think we did maybe two weekends right of shows and that was it.

[20:55] How when you when you came to your first summer stock you do when you came to your first long run of a show.

[21:01] How did you cope with the monotony and the repetition?

[21:07] What are your tricks?

[21:08] How do you stay engaged?

[21:10] Hmm.

[21:11] Well, the longest run I've ever done was wicked.

[21:14] Uh-huh.

[21:14] Which was a year and a half.

[21:16] And uh, and because I was older, I wasn't a kid.

[21:23] I was aware of the pitfalls of what could happen.

[21:28] Right.

[21:28] Um, I mean, I remember one of uh one of the men who played The Wizard with me, and I had several of them, um, and they were all so wonderful.

[21:41] And there was one of them who was awesome, but his choices were frozen, and that was it.

[21:49] Right.

[21:50] He I could have lit myself on fire on stage, and he still would have delivered his lines the same way.

[21:57] Right.

[21:57] Which on the one hand, like he he never messed up, he was so solid.

[22:01] And on the other hand, sometimes I wanted to scream and be like, please, please, please play with me for a second because I'm losing my mind.

[22:09] Yeah.

[22:10] And I do remember um there was a guy in the ensemble, uh who I saw one day, like uh on the street, and then oh no, it was at an audition, actually.

[22:22] I was at a voiceover audition, he was at a commercial audition, and then um that night at the show, he was out, he wasn't in the show.

[22:30] And when I saw him the next day, I said, Hey, what happened to you? I saw you yesterday afternoon, and then you weren't in the show.

[22:35] He and he said, I had a little bit of a nervous meltdown.

[22:40] And I said, Well, why what happened?

[22:42] And he went, My whole and he was younger.

[22:45] Yeah, he said, My whole life, I have I have wanted to be in a Broadway show.

[22:51] This has been my dream, and now I'm in one, and now I said, and now it's a job.

[22:59] He said, yes.

[23:01] And he just, I think sometimes that monotony can overwhelm you.

[23:05] Yeah.

[23:06] I think there are certain shows.

[23:08] I remember my my ex-boyfriend was in a chorus line.

[23:11] And I remember him telling me that something like three weeks, three months rather into his run, he felt like he was going crazy.

[23:20] And he went into stage management.

[23:21] And he was like, I'm so sorry.

[23:23] I I don't know what to do.

[23:24] I don't know if I need a a day off.

[23:26] I'm not sure.

[23:27] And they're like, you've been here about three months, right?

[23:29] And he said, yes.

[23:30] They're like, yes, that's right on time.

[23:32] Because in that show, because they're standing on the line that literally, yeah, for so much of the show that like your brain starts to freak out.

[23:42] Yeah.

[23:43] I can't even imagine doing that show eight times a week.

[23:47] Exactly.

[23:48] I I think that there is um certainly something to uh every once in a while.

[23:56] I know in my longer runs, I have to say a line in a completely different manner than I normally say it.

[24:03] And as long as it's not a line that's going to mess up the actual uh trajectory of the show, because it might be something that like you say it a different way for the sake of saying it, and then you're like, nope, that doesn't work at all.

[24:18] We're gonna go back to the other way.

[24:20] Yeah.

[24:21] But just to so you're not, you don't become an automaton.

[24:25] Right.

[24:26] You don't feel like you're in Westworld, you're not a robot.

[24:30] You're like Yes, it's exactly it's it's important.

[24:33] And I think that you're, you know, some actors, their school of thought is do exactly the same every time, but you start to not be present.

[24:41] And I think the whole point of being in live theater is being present and being alive.

[24:46] And it doesn't take a lot to change it when you've done something hundreds of times.

[24:50] It's literally like taking a breath in a different spot.

[24:53] Exactly.

[24:54] And and also I found in in a long run, um there were many opportunities where I went on with understudies.

[25:06] Right.

[25:06] And so immediately you had somebody different doing something different.

[25:11] No one can do exactly what the other person does, even if you imitate it.

[25:16] Right.

[25:17] So all so already there's a like pull up, here we go, something's happening.

[25:21] What is it?

[25:22] And sometimes there were moments like with understudies where you know you have to kind of be like, You can totally you can I'll play with you.

[25:32] It's cool, but I I just need you to be in the same spot that the other person is in.

[25:37] Right.

[25:37] So I don't turn around and start looking all over the stage for you.

[25:40] Right.

[25:40] Or things like that.

[25:42] But um it it's in a weird way, it's one of the things that can keep you on your toes in a long run, is that it's inevitable that they're going to be new people on stage.

[25:53] Yeah, every night.

[25:54] With that's yeah, and sometimes it's madness.

[25:57] Yeah.

[25:57] Uh at Wicked, they I don't think they do this anymore, but they used to have something called universal swings, where they had, I'm not sure, oh yeah, two or three people, two uh men and women who knew every single track.

[26:10] Yeah.

[26:10] And then it's when they had so many companies of wicked going, and uh, and just when they were down a certain number of people because of injuries and vacations, they would just be like, Hey, we need you to go to Denmark or whatever and and do the show for a week.

[26:26] And there more than once I got on stage and someone would turn around and I would think I have never seen that person in my life.

[26:36] I'm on Broadway for paying customers right now.

[26:39] Yeah.

[26:39] And I haven't met you.

[26:41] Who are you?

[26:43] Yeah.

[26:44] It's incredible.

[26:45] And it's such a well-oiled machine that everybody just knows where to go.

[26:48] And especially something like Wicked that has a blueprint that's being put together in literally different countries all the time.

[26:57] Everyone knows what part of the clock they make up.

[27:01] And there are so many, there are certain shows where the ensemble and the principles are so integrated in a way.

[27:07] And Wicked is one of the like leans a little more old-fashioned.

[27:11] Yeah.

[27:12] In that the uh uh the principles are a little bit especially alphabet, are a little bit separate from the ensemble.

[27:22] Right.

[27:23] So it was just such a funny thing to turn around and be like, huh, I I don't, I don't know that person.

[27:28] I don't know their name.

[27:29] I don't know anything about that person.

[27:31] Yeah, no, and that that that happens more often than people realize.

[27:36] And we definitely had like uh universal swings in Hamilton and Book of Mormon.

[27:41] I've been trying to pitch to the Hamilton folks to be the universal king and uh just you know, hey, do you need me and in this company?

[27:49] Just do the king for a week here or there.

[27:51] But just a little pop-in.

[27:52] Yeah, a little Mary Poppins.

[27:54] Right.

[27:54] I think I was the person who done who played the king for the longest.

[27:57] It's probably I'm probably surpassed now.

[27:58] I've been gone for a year.

[27:59] So um, but it's definitely one of the crazier aspects of being a part of a show that literally turns into I I don't want to say it, I hate saying it this way, but it's a corporation.

[28:11] I mean, obviously it's a corporation, but it is.

[28:14] But those shows are, absolutely.

[28:16] It's it and it it's the only way that the show can go on when you're dealing with something that big in so many different places.

[28:22] I'm serious.

[28:22] I I know you're supposed to be doing the interview here, but I'm gonna do it for a second.

[28:26] I am curious about what it was like for you to have so much offstage time.

[28:31] Yeah.

[28:31] What do you do with yourself?

[28:33] I know.

[28:33] Well, mostly I try to come up with a good answer to everyone who's gonna ask me after the show, what do you do with all that time?

[28:39] Because I'd say, like, oh, I can't say that I've been playing Candy Crush for two hours.

[28:45] Like I decoupage and donate to the children.

[28:49] I mean, one one thing that I did was this.

[28:52] I started a podcast.

[28:53] I was realizing that so much of the social media that Hamilton was participating in and myself was talking to young people and giving them a certain idea of what it was to be a theater performer.

[29:06] And I wanted to have longer conversations with the cast members and different people who I look up to in what in our field and kind of have a more honest conversation.

[29:17] So I started, you know, getting guests together and and editing um different interviews, and I would do a lot of the interviews in my dressing room.

[29:26] So that was one project that came out of that.

[29:29] And then I would, you know, try to write.

[29:31] I wrote a a show that I did at 54 below, and um, you know, but a lot of times it was also because I was away from my husband.

[29:40] Julia Murney: He was in Los Angeles and I was in New York for that first year. It was a lot of FaceTiming and keeping in contact with him and other family members. And it's such a funny thing. Like if that's so like weird ephemeral thing about live theater, is that as you were doing that through the monitor, yeah, I'm sure you could hear like Javier or whoever it was just working their tails off. And you're in your dressing room doing even like it's so it's always so odd to me that this sounds ridiculous, but that shows are just going on. Like sometimes I'll have to drop something off for a friend at a stage door. And I've walked into the stage door while the show's going on and just giving it to the stage guy, you know, to the door guy.

And then you think about you can hear it, and really like what it is, I don't know, 25 feet, 30 feet away from where you're standing. There's magic happening. There's magic happening for people who are really excited and paid good hard-earned money to see it. And it's right there. But I'm actually just gonna turn around and walk back out the door. Yeah, and go about my evening. Doop-do-doo, here I go. Oh, it's magic. It's magic. It's so wild to me. And I think that's what's something that maybe is so beautiful about being in the Broadway area. Or and it's a little more spread out, but I feel this way on the West End as well. That in behind any given door, there's magic happening. And you know, if you're walking down Eighth Avenue at about on an eight o'clock night, let's say at about, you know, 7:05, 7:15, you start running into all these people who are running to get to their half hour.

Yes, like this thing is about to happen. This match is about to get struck. And barring anything completely strange at whatever time they usually go up, eight, eight, eight oh eight or whatever it is, it's gonna go. I almost every time I see a Broadway show, I can't help but think, oh my god, they are doing Wicked right now at the Gershwin. They are doing Chicago at the Ambassador, like they are doing these shows, they're doing Phantom of the Opera right now. Like this is insane that I'm in a theater and down the street, another whole group of people are gathering around another show, and it's my favorite part of Broadway. I mean, it's different, but obviously, but it's sort of like if you've ever been anywhere, like to a when I went to, um, I did a concert, believe it or not, in Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur.

Um, because even in Kuala Lumpur, they want to hear Defying Gravity. Absolutely. And um, it is a Muslim country. And I've never been in a completely Muslim country before. And so at different times you would hear the call to prayer. Right. It comes from the mosques. It's sort of it's different, but it's sort of like that. Like a place's call. Yes. It's a call to prayer. Wow. And there are some shows. I've been in certain shows where you like huddle up and you do a circle before every show. Yeah. I've been in other shows where you just meet you on stage. I've been in shows that are set anywhere in between. I mean, at Wicked, I liked having my dressing room door open because I felt very isolated.

So I liked the opportunity to get to see as many people as I could. And I was stuck in the chair being painted. Oh. So can I talk about that with you for a second? I know that's like a number one question for an alphabet, but what in the world was that like? I just, every time I get ready for a show, I think, oh man, that alphabet, she's painting on that green right now. And I just put on my lip gloss. That ain't nothing compared to Brian Darcy James when he did Shrek. Oh my gosh. Because we had this whole conversation about it before he got green, because I had already been green. And his was like, I always after once I learned what his was, I was like, I've got it easy. Yeah. His prosthetics and body suits.

Huge whole thing. And I also felt very spoiled at Wicked to a certain degree because I have a green team who basically the alphabet has to be in about half of their costume at half hour, and you sit in the chair and then it starts. Wow. And they start painting you up, and then at about, I don't know the exact time, so like quarter of, they would start pin curling, and then because you don't enter the show for 15 minutes or something like that, you know, you still you've got time. But the Madame Morrible, whose original makeup, I think the makeup has toned down on that character, but the original makeup was very kabuki for her, and she had to do it herself. Wow. Like when you're in Cats, you do your own makeup.

Right. And I'm like, I could never have been in Cats. Never mind the fact that I probably couldn't have danced it. I would have been the worst looking cat you've ever seen. I wonder like no artistic. How do they, what if somebody really is terrible at their makeup? But do they just have to like continue to teach them or is that part of the audition? I don't know. I want to know. I'm gonna ask some friends. I'm all about it. Yeah, we'll have to get back to everyone. I really do want to know. But um, so it takes about half an hour to get green and get your wig and everything. And the truth of it is I felt during my time in the show far more attractive, frankly, with my green on than just during the day.

Huh. Because somebody is doing your makeup. Right. Yes, it's green, but they're like they are blending it so it all looks smooth and it all looks good. And then when you take it all off, you've always got it in your hair, you've always got it in your ears. If you have any sort of dry patch on your face or a blemish of any kind, the green basically sucks into it. So then you go out the stage door and some sweet kid is like, oh, you have a little green on you. They think it's neat. Yeah. And you want to die. Right. I took a shower. Yeah. I swear to you, I'm a clean human being. But then when you go back in the next night and they do your face up again, you're like, oh, okay, fabulous. This is like it gets twisted because at the end you're like, this is what I look like.

I look like this green. This is my best. Right. My day look is trash. Well, it yeah, I know what you're saying. It is, it's gorgeous. I mean, the makeup that every alphabet has on is beautiful. And yes, it's green, but it's so highly stylized and well, she also gets more as the show goes on. Right. Like at intermission, she gets more contouring, she gets lashes. Oh yeah. Oh. And she kisses a boy in the forest. You have to have lashes. Of course. I mean, why wouldn't you? My goodness. But um, so yeah, I mean, it's like you have a professional makeup person doing your face. Yeah. It just happens to be green. And I will say, they're very big. They like you to take it off between shows on two show days.

Oh really? Mostly because she is contoured and touched up as the show goes. They like to get back to one, like back to one, back to zero. Yeah. Also for sweat. Um, I am not a sweater. And when I started the show, I said to them that because they have moments in the show built in off stage for sweat touch-ups. And I said to them from the go, oh, I don't actually, um, I don't sweat. And they were like, yeah, okay. And then we got to like my first run through, and I went to the spot where the touch up is, and they went, oh. I said, I'm serious. I don't sweat. That's not like my thing. And if you're not sweating in the beginning, like whenever I'm nervous, that's when I sweat the most when I'm like the first run through.

Everyone's like, you're never gonna make it through without sweating out your mic and everything. I'm like, no, just give me a few shows, I'll be better. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. But one day for reasons I don't remember, I stayed inside and left the green on and ordered food. And I went and they, you know, called and they're like, Julia, food's here at the stage door for you. And I went in the big elevator and I go downstairs and I had on, I was fully green, but in like sweats with a do rag on. And the elevator opens and the delivery guy looks at me. He did not blink an eye. He looked at me and he was like, hey, 1250. And I thought, this guy delivers two shows on Broadway. Yeah. He has seen everybody, you know, the chorus girl special and everything. Yeah. No. And I mean, you know, it's New York, so they're just used to Times Square. As long as you're paying.

[39:16] Rory O'Malley: So you being a part of the Alphabet group, the Wicked family.

[39:26] Julia Murney: Yes, I love it. You are a part of this amazing concert circuit, and you do concerts, and I've done concerts with you, and you're so good at it. I feel like it's such a specific skill. And obviously, because you are such a fantastic singer, you're asked to do a lot of concerts. What is the difference between getting up on a stage and performing a concert or within a group of doing a group of numbers not from the same show and being on a Broadway stage? Do you think it's a different skill or do you enjoy it differently?

[40:01] Julia Murney: I don't know that it's a different skill so much as it is a different twig off of the same branch. Because I mean, the thing about when you're doing a show and you're playing a character in a show, you have whatever setup there is, be it short or very lengthy, to get to a specific song. And everybody's seen it in that audience. You're all in agreement of like this is the thing that led to the thing. And um, and you're a character, so you're able to hide behind that, whatever that character is. When you're doing concerts and you're doing just songs sort of wildly out of context, or what have you, um, you don't have all of the run-up to the song. I mean, I've definitely seen people who do concerts, either solo shows or concerts where there are a bunch of people in the concert, whatever, who some people are better at chatting on stage than others.

It's not everybody's wheelhouse. And look, um, there's a major pop superstar who just had a concert put out on Netflix. I'm not gonna say who she is, I'm sure there's lots of fans listening. Fair, but she is not great at it. She's not great at talking, she's an amazing performer. I'm just gonna say it, Taylor Swift. People are gonna know who I'm talking about anyway. She's look, and maybe, and maybe that's because she's not talking to Rory O'Malley, and that's okay. Like she's talking to her fans, but I'm kind of amazed at the most the biggest production. She's singing, she's such a great songwriter, and there's dancing and all these elements, and then just the talking is a little like, oh well, that's the hardest part for you.

You know what I mean? Like, she's probably talking to a younger crowd than me, and maybe connecting in that way, and good for her. But um, that's it, it really is a skill to be able to connect the dots in what songs you're singing.

[42:16] Julia Murney: It definitely is. And I mean, I did it many years. I was asked very last minute to cover for somebody else who'd gotten really ill to go doing this symphony show, and they wanted two of us, and the person who called me, this was so this will tell you how long ago this was, said we would love two girls from Wicked. Can you think of a Glinda like right away who's available and whatever? And I was like, yes, I'm calling Megan Hilty. And part of the reason I mean, and they didn't know who she was, that's how long ago this was. So, you know, but part of the reason I was like, yes, we're calling Megan Hilty, is because I knew that she would be able to her charm factor is like through the roof, right?

And it which is not to say that the vocals of other people aren't through the roof, it's just that this particular pops, this kind of concert, part of what makes it I think far more enjoyable is when there's a connection with the audience beyond the songs, yeah. And I enjoy that, like that's a world I feel pretty confident in.

[43:22] Rory O'Malley: Well, and it's and you've thrived in it and you've seen the world through it, which you know really says a lot about your ability.

[43:30] Julia Murney: It's a matter of learning how to just you can just be like don't worry about trying to present something that you think somebody wants. Right. You know, but you also have to be smart enough to like obviously there's no you don't curse. You don't gotta be able to control yourself, I think, in certain worlds. I mean, if you're if you're doing your a solo concert at 54 Below or something, whatever. Do your show, do what and say whatever you want to say, and you can curse up a storm, who cares? But if you're doing a concert with the Boston Pops, you really it's a different thing.

[44:25] Rory O'Malley: Right. Know your audience.

[44:26] Julia Murney: Yes.

[44:28] Rory O'Malley: Exactly. I'm totally feeding the dogs while we're talking.

[44:31] Julia Murney: Oh, please, please get those dogs fed.

[44:34] Rory O'Malley: Um, let me let me switch topics here a little bit. Uh, I whenever I have uh an actress on who has been around and knows the business as well as you do, I like to talk about the specifics of being a woman in the industry, the difference in body image, in um age of finding uh parts and the specific um difficulties or the parts of it that are that you know you find to be better because you're a woman.

[45:05] Julia Murney: Hmm, wow, you know, it's funny because when I was younger, I don't think I thought twice about it. Right, honestly, it didn't it just didn't cross my mind. Um, there is I I think there's a lot like you can go to college and you can learn about a lot of things, and then there are some things that simply cannot be taught, they just have to be experienced, and I think one of them is being a woman in this business, uh, perhaps also in this world, but since we're specifically talking about this business, um, and another one is aging, and it's not for the faint of heart, right? It really isn't, and I mean I mean that on all sides, like it look, I was never an ingenue, not when I was 20. I just wasn't I didn't come off that way, and um so for me, I was actually rather anticipatorily is that a word?

Sure, okay, uh waiting to be older to play older parts more to more mature parts, and I remember like when I got cast as the baker's wife and into the woods, I was like, ooh, there we go, right? Um, I think it's probably very difficult for women who are real and true ingenues to start aging, and everything starts shifting, and then who are you playing and what are you? And um I get it I I recognize that it is most likely against what they're being taught in school, but when I have uh students ask me about type, like what type do you think I am? I always say I don't believe in it.

[47:36] Huh.

[47:36] Julia Murney: And I say that I just feel like you it it it is a fine line between understanding when you're in college, you play all of these roles. You play the old lady and the 12 year old, you know, like both. Right. Because that's where they have to cast. So then understanding when you come out, oh no, they actually have a 12-year-old and an older lady. Yes. They don't need you. Yeah. They need you to be exactly what you are right now. Right. And I feel like the tropes of like but way, way back in the day, um, I don't know if you're probably weren't around for this, um, the composite headshot was a big thing.

[48:21] Oh, yeah, like the different exactly these headshots with like three or four pictures on them.

[48:26] Julia Murney: Right. And like often it would be like a man in sort of sexy pose, like, you know, neutral pose, and then a man same guy dressed as a cop. Right. It was a heavy set person, they were always dressed at they always had like I'm like a I'm a funny guy picture. I am a funny chef, or I'm a funny, and I'm like, why why does that have to be so? Right. But I think many things have changed for the better.

[49:02] Yeah.

[49:03] Julia Murney: To quote the song. Um. But I I just feel like if you if you get so um tied into what your type may be, it's not gonna give you the opening for when you walk into a new type. Right. That's but you also need to understand that they're gonna not gonna need you to play a 12-year-old. Right. Unless it's like a Celia Keenan Bolger special.

[49:31] Yes, yes, she has figured that out very well.

[49:34] Julia Murney: Right, which frankly only Celia Keenan Bolger is allowed to do because she's better at it than any of the other people. She's she's very good at it.

[49:41] Yeah.

[49:42] Julia Murney: Um, so before we end, like, do you have do you have anything that I mean, a lot you've already said a lot of this, it's just you've had a lot of great advice for especially for for younger people getting into the business. But is there something that you would have told yourself before you started in this business if you could talk to that to that young actress now?

[50:03] Julia Murney: Well, the cynic in me, yeah, my answer would be run! Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah, anything else. Yeah, think about it really hard, you can figure it out. Yeah, something else. That said, um because she would still say, No, I definitely want to do this. She wouldn't listen to you. So that's the truth. That's the that's the God's honest truth. I mean, I feel like like when I teach, I will say, um, I I often say, here's the thing. I know that most of you sitting in front of me believe that you are going to die if you are not in a Broadway show. And I'm here to tell you that you are going to die. But the the cause of death on that certificate is not gonna say well she was never Glinda. Right.

It's not gonna say that. Like it's just it the while, for example, doing a Broadway show has been great in my experience. It's also been very hard, very um soul sucking sometimes. It's hard as hell. It's not I'm a soldier in Afghanistan hard, no, but it's hard in a very different way mentally and physically, and I truly believe that if you have a song in your heart, no matter what, everybody needs music, not just people paying top dollar in the middle of an island, you know, like they need it everywhere, yeah. They need it in community theaters and choirs and regional theaters and children need to be taught it around the world, like it the it is a um it is a transportable gift, right? And if if the gods have have sprinkled this gift on you, then I think when I was in college, I'm pretty sure that my brain was like, I just want to do musicals, so all I want to do are musicals, and now I'm like, oh no, no. If I can just make a living under the umbrella of uh of show business, like in terms of like concerts, teaching, um commercials, stage, television, like then I'm then I I feel good. Right, but I didn't understand the breadth of things that you could do, and one of my pet peeves is um that old adage of, well, those who can't do teach.

[52:53] Oh yeah.

[52:54] Julia Murney: And I'm like, oh, you can suck it because it's it's so unfair and it's so um judgy. Yeah. And I think people become teachers for all kinds of reasons. A good portion of which is rough. Like I don't I don't know that I want to do this any anymore in this way. Right. Anyone who sets out to be an actor, if you are um you get to work, of course. It's fabulous, right? There's nothing better. Most people don't get to work enough to satisfy the itch. So you've got to connect the dots in between the jobs and figure out new new ways to kind of take judgment off of it.

[53:48] Yes.

[53:49] Julia Murney: You know, there needs to be no judgment. For example, that's so funny. Right now, I have a very old law and order on my television on mute, and I just looked up, and one of my wizards is up there.

[53:59] Nice right now.

[54:00] Julia Murney: That's so funny. But uh, you know, like you have to take judgment off of it, and you have to take judgment off of anyone else. I remember a a friend of mine who I believe is also a friend of yours several years ago did a Viagra commercial.

[54:15] Uh-huh.

[54:16] Julia Murney: And I was somewhere, and somebody was saying, Well, why is he doing that Viagra commercial? Why would he do that? What? What do you mean? Why would he do that? It's cash money, you moron. Yeah. And it's not like somebody is looking at him and thinking, oh, you know, George Smith has erectile dysfunction in real life. Right. We all know it's it's make believe. Right. And that paid some cash money. Why not? Yeah, I think that there is, you're right. There's a lot of judgment passed on people who are able to continue their careers to connect the dots from one exciting project to the next. Maybe the Viagra commercial is not as exciting, but it's the reason that you get to do maybe that next artistically fulfilling project.

Absolutely. And it does always make me um giggle when uh when I'm asked, or when some statement to this end is made about like, it's so interesting the way you've uh you've chosen the projects that you've done. And oh, do you think I'm choosing this? Right. Do you think I'm the boss of this this path? Yeah, this journey. There's plenty I have wanted to do that I didn't was not asked to do. Right. You make the most of what you're given, and uh you you're the best possible, you you take your talents to whatever project you're lucky enough to have put in front of you and get to use, and you make the most of it and you're you're grateful. And you know, most of the time that's that's the that's the exciting part.

It feels like it's the scary part because you never know what you're gonna do next, but that's why we chose this as well. Is the is the drama of what's going to happen in our careers. I mean, there's definitely like I feel I find that that part never gets easier.

[56:07] Yeah.

[56:07] Julia Murney: The unknown. Sure. Um in ways it gets harder. Yeah. Some people handle it differently or man people manage that differently. And but it gets hard. I mean, like, now you've got a child now. You know, there's things are thought of in a different way. And um it it a long time ago, I did a show, and uh the guy who was the standby for the lead didn't with the show was continuing on and moving to Broadway, and he didn't really want to do it. That wasn't his heart. Um, but he also had two children and you know, a very specific home life that he had to bring into consideration. Right. And he was a grown man and decided to do the Broadway transfer, even though he didn't want to, because it was the responsible thing to do.

Right. And I think the key is that all reasons are valid. Yeah. If you know why you said no to something, if you turn something down, stick to that gun and know why you did it. And also, if you take a job because, for example, you need the money or you need insurance weeks or something like that, like just be straight with yourself. Know why you're taking the job, and then you have to walk in there with the best attitude in the world. Because no one's interested in you coming in and then being kind of a sour patch kid because you don't really want to be there, but you had to have the insurance weeks. Right. Get over it. You said yes, or you said no. Right. Like, and there's always a Debbie Downer in the group.

Don't let it be you. Right. That's true. That is true. There was always one. And you've got to have like have your positivity kind of outside. And there's always one. And that Debbie Downer often has a really strong magnetic pull.

[58:12] Yeah.

[58:13] Julia Murney: Yeah. You know, you gotta fight it. It's hard to steer clear of it sometimes. Well, you are someone who has just I I've always looked up to. Um, I remember listening to my wild party recording and just being in awe of your talent. And to get to know you over the years as a friend and as just a wonderful person has been such a treat for me. And I'm so grateful that you are on the podcast because you have so much experience and so much to share, and you were so honest as I knew you would be. So thank you so much for doing this.

[58:47] Julia Murney: Oh, it's beyond my pleasure. Thank you. And I'm so I'm so glad that you do this for so many people who get to hear how it goes. Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.