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[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 71 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:04] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:11] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers. Welcome to Living the Dream. I'm your host, Rory O'Malley. Thank you so much for downloading and listening to our conversation with people in show business about the ups and downs of our crazy, crazy industry.

[0:27] Rory O'Malley: If you are enjoying these conversations, please write a review, give us a rating, and tell your friends.

[0:34] Rory O'Malley: Today, my guest is Kirsten Wyatt, who I absolutely adore. Kirsten and I have been working very closely together for the last couple of months on something called Belt the Vote.

[0:45] Rory O'Malley: I've been talking about it on the podcast and online quite a bit. We are trying to make sure that the theater community across the country is registered to vote for the election on November 6th.

[0:56] Rory O'Malley: So you can go to BeltTheVote.org and take a look at that. You can also just encourage everyone you know in the theater community to register to vote to make sure that they're ready to make their voice heard on November 6th.

[1:08] Rory O'Malley: Deadlines are approaching every single day. And you know, go find out if you're registered. Make sure that your voice is heard November 6th. It's so important that, especially artists, that you're being counted.

[1:26] Rory O'Malley: So Kirsten and I feel very strongly about that, and we have been talking with all these different Broadway folks about different ways to do it, and we came up with Belt the Vote, and it has been wonderfully encouraging in these crazy times to meet people like Kirsten and to have their leadership.

[1:47] Rory O'Malley: She is a Broadway pro. She calls herself Blue Collar Broadway. I love that. She's a hard worker, and she has been hustling on the Great White Way for a couple decades now. She got her start in You're a Good Man Charlie Brown, which is so funny because I just spoke to Alana Levine last episode, but she was an understudy swing for You're a Good Man Charlie Brown.

[2:13] Rory O'Malley: So she has a lot of passionate views about the hard work ethic of swings and understudies. She's been in Grease on Broadway, she was just in Annie on Broadway, she's done so much, and she's also on the council for Actor’s Equity, our union.

[2:29] Rory O'Malley: So I have a lot of questions on that. I've never had somebody who is so knowledgeable about our union. So we talk a lot about that, and she's a delight. You are going to absolutely love her.

[2:43] Rory O'Malley: We also have a really exciting announcement here on Living the Dream. You know, our sponsor, Gold Star, who I'm always telling you to go get tickets on their website. We're doing a giveaway. We're doing like a promotion. It's really fun.

[2:58] Rory O'Malley: It's called the 100 question giveaway, where you get to ask a guest on this podcast a question, and you win a hundred dollars in Gold Star cash. And all you have to do is visit Gold Star's Facebook page and look at the latest episode of my show, Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley, and comment below with the question you'd most like to ask the guest.

[3:25] Rory O'Malley: That's it. That's all you have to do. Our guest will be Leslie Margarita. She's an amazing person, and I have a million questions for her, so I can only imagine that you all do too.

[3:39] Rory O'Malley: So come up with a great question for Leslie. Go to Goldstar's Facebook page, make a comment, and we'll pick a winner. And that winner will get to call in to the show, ask Leslie a question, and get a hundred dollars in Gold Star Cash. That's pretty cool.

[3:57] Rory O'Malley: All right, let's listen to the conversation with Kirsten Wyatt.

[4:03] Kirsten Wyatt: For asking me, I hate. I'm so I just saw I was looking at your website last night and I saw you talk to Ilana Levine, who I adore.

[4:11] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes.

[4:11] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh yes. I was her understudy in You're a Good Man Charlie Brown.

[4:16] Kirsten Wyatt: It was my very first Broadway show.

[4:19] Rory O'Malley: Shut the front door.

[4:21] Kirsten Wyatt: Yep.

[4:22] Rory O'Malley: Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

[4:26] Kirsten Wyatt: That's crazy. You must have been in utero.

[4:29] Rory O'Malley: I was a baby.

[4:31] Kirsten Wyatt: A baby.

[4:32] Kirsten Wyatt: I was a baby at one point, and now we're old.

[4:36] Kirsten Wyatt: But um. But uh, but yeah, I understudied her and Kirsten Chenowith in You're a Good Man Charlie Brown. I was fresh out of school, and I had no idea what I was doing.

[4:48] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[4:49] Kirsten Wyatt: We've started by the way.

[4:50] Rory O'Malley: Okay, because that has to be a begun.

[4:54] Rory O'Malley: Hello, Kirsten.

[4:54] Kirsten Wyatt: Hello, Rory.

[4:56] Rory O'Malley: So you where did you go to school?

[4:57] Kirsten Wyatt: I went to school at the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music, aka CCM.

[5:03] Rory O'Malley: CCM.

[5:04] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes.

[5:05] Rory O'Malley: Yes. Um, so you went to CCM and you but you grew up in West Virginia.

[5:05] Kirsten Wyatt: In West Virginia.

[5:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Wow. Now, how does one develop a love and passion for musical theater in West Virginia?

[5:19] Kirsten Wyatt: Is it easy? Do you just go to West Virginia Summer Music Theater or whatever that was?

[5:24] Kirsten Wyatt: Virginia Public Theater, right?

[5:26] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes, yes. I knew that I that was a really big theater, and I auditioned many times when I was in Pittsburgh. Never got crazy.

[5:33] Kirsten Wyatt: Um I know they're lost. But I know it's well, I know they're a really big deal and that there is a musical theater scene in West Virginia, but are there a lot of theaters or no?

[5:45] Kirsten Wyatt: No, basically I started in The Wizard of Oz at my community theater. Um we had a really active community theater scene in Clarksburg, West Virginia when I was growing up. Um, and I auditioned for a munchkin in The Wizard of Oz, and I got laughed.

[6:08] Kirsten Wyatt: It always starts with the munchkin, doesn't it?

[6:09] Rory O'Malley: It really does.

[6:10] Kirsten Wyatt: It really does. And I heard people laugh, and I was like, yeah, I can do this. I like this.

[6:15] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, and so it just sort of evolved from there. I had a really active high school theater department thanks to like one teacher whose passion it was. Um and then by, you know, also because of her other teachers got involved, so we just, you know, would put on shows, and that was really influential to me.

[6:35] Kirsten Wyatt: And I had amazing dance teachers, and I just, you know, I had a really important conversation with my dad when I was like a junior, and he's like, What do you think you want to do? Um, and I was like, I don't know. I like I should do something probably practical. I really like the theater thing, but maybe I should be like a nurse or you know, a teacher, a doctor or something.

[6:57] Kirsten Wyatt: And he was like, you know what? I think if you're gonna go for it, now's the time to go for it. And I think if you're gonna do it, you should audition at like the best theater schools across the country. So I support you. And so that's what we did. And lucky for me, I got into CCM. That was a long answer to that.

[7:13] Rory O'Malley: No, that was a very concise and perfect answer. I mean, that's amazing.

[7:19] Rory O'Malley: And then you say luckily got in CCM. I mean, that is one of the best musical theater programs in the country. Um you had to have really worked very hard and be quite, you know, quite the triple threat.

[7:33] Kirsten Wyatt: I think they have a lot of what I would call triple threats at CCM.

[7:38] Rory O'Malley: Um so you were in dance as well. Like you were a dancer.

[7:42] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, I'm I'm I'm a solid mover.

[7:48] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah, I'm not even solid. I'm a sophomore.

[7:55] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, I mean, I grew up in Cleveland, so I knew what CCM. I didn't even audition at CCM because I was like, oh no, I could never be as good of a musical theater performer as the people at CCM. You know, to me that was I think though, you know, I think top shelf.

[8:12] Kirsten Wyatt: I think each school though has like when I went to CCM, I felt like I was like, oh, this is where I feel like I can succeed. I felt at home. I felt like it was a program that was really going to encourage me to be the best I could and to cultivate my skill set.

[8:31] Kirsten Wyatt: Whereas, you know, I auditioned at a lot of other schools and I never they were fantastic programs, but I never quite got that same feeling. And so, you know, hopefully you felt that at Carnegie Mellon. I know folks who go to Michigan, they sort of feel the same. And I think each program has its strengths, and the key is finding making sure your strengths match up, you know.

[8:51] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[8:52] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. You make the most of whatever school you go to, and that's what the experience is.

[8:58] Rory O'Malley: Definitely. Did you have did you have um any like struggles while you were in school?

[9:05] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh my god, I didn't get cast for two years.

[9:08] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[9:08] Kirsten Wyatt: So it was a program where you have to audition for shows and you weren't getting.

[9:13] Kirsten Wyatt: I was not getting cast. And then I was fairly certain at that time, um, back in the day, uh, they would they would ask you to leave the program at a certain point.

[9:22] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[9:22] Kirsten Wyatt: And I was certain after my sophomore year that I was gonna get asked to leave. But I did not. I actually ended up getting cast finally, um, in the latter part of my sophomore year. And then, you know, it was a journey for me too. I think at a certain point I realized I was just being afraid to bring myself to the work because I was too busy worrying about what other people thought about me.

[9:46] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, and once I was able to sort of let that go, um, and I worked really hard, you know. They uh I want I really wanted to play Squeaky Fromme in Assassins at the school. Um, and so when I Oh my god, you would I was I was gonna say you would kill that. That's probably the wrong home words, but yes.

[10:06] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, but so when they announced they were doing that and I didn't get cast in the previous shows, I spent while all my friends were rehearsing, I spent all my time researching Squeaky Fromme and putting in the work and learning the material and all of that good stuff. So when it was time to audition, I was like ready to go. I came in no pun intended, guns ablazin.

[10:29] Kirsten Wyatt: Um but yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think ultimately I just had to find out. I had to find my voice, and that, you know, failure actually helped me find my voice.

[10:39] Rory O'Malley: Well, we talk about that a lot on this podcast in terms of like rejection. Um and how how do you deal with it? It sounds like you are someone who just puts yourself into the work. And I could see that in you, especially like over the last couple of months, which we'll get into of how hard you work, that you are so passionate when you want to accomplish something, you put your entire heart and soul into it.

[11:07] Rory O'Malley: So I can imagine that if something doesn't go your way and you have to deal with rejection, that's got to sting even more because I know you've put your all into it. How do you deal with that?

[11:19] Kirsten Wyatt: You keep moving forward, I think. I mean, we've all dealt with rejection in this industry in one form or another on a very regular basis. I wouldn't say it gets easier. I would say my tool chest for dealing with it gets bigger. Um, you know, as you get older, you're able to, I think see a little bit more of the big picture and prioritize um what's really important to you.

[11:49] Kirsten Wyatt: Um I think I have an amazing bunch of supporters around me. I have a husband, I have more friends than I can count. Um, I have an incredibly supportive family, and that certainly helps when things don't go your way, you know. But I think you just pick yourself up and you just keep moving forward. Um I think diversifying your life is a great way to do that so that you're not just focused on one thing that's gonna make or break you. You know what I mean?

[12:23] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:24] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, so whether that's you know, I teach some and like really being able to give back to my students feels um very rewarding. I am very active uh socially in a social conscious, socially conscious way.

[12:45] Rory O'Malley: I try to be, you know, as we both are, I think. Um, and you know, I have a marriage and you know, that's always good. Um, comes in handy sometimes.

[12:58] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about your teaching and about your social activism because we are so lucky that we've been able to work on this Belt the Vote and voter registration within the Broadway and theater community. And um, I we'll talk a little more about how that all came about, but I was so lucky because I got to volunteer at a couple of theaters to register voters, and you put together all the volunteers who were at these places.

[13:32] Rory O'Malley: And when I would show up, I'd be like, oh, I would introduce myself to the other volunteer or other couple of people, and they were your students.

[13:39] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah.

[13:40] Rory O'Malley: And they were phenomenal. They were such lovely people who clearly admired you and were very aware of the importance of registering voters. And I thought, wow, Kirsten is not just instilling in these students the best acting and audition technique. She's instilling in them her social awareness and what it means to be an artist that you have to be able to have a dialogue with your community about what we need to do in the world, and that we're all, you know, have that torch to carry from one generation to the next. So that must be so important to you in the classroom. How do you instill that in your students and inspire them?

[14:31] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, I think it's, I think it is sort of, this sounds, this is gonna sound ridiculous, but I mean, a good actor really is aware of what's going on around her, you know, and him. And um, and you we can just use her.

[14:49] Kirsten Wyatt: Okay, great. We'll just use her at some point. Please. I like this month inclusive. It's all about her, she, all of us. Um, but uh, but you know, I think a huge part of being an artist is being really aware of what's going on around you and being engaged in that and realizing that it really isn't about you, that you affect everything. And, you know, any good scene partner can tell you that, you know, any good actor can tell you that, you know. Um, and I think any good citizen can tell you that, that the smallest gesture can have lasting consequences.

[15:33] Kirsten Wyatt: And um, and I think sometimes it feels like we're not moving forward. You know, sometimes in our careers we feel like we're not moving forward or we're not moving fast enough. But my experience has been you take one step at a time, and all of those steps equal a journey, and that's really what we're going for. Um, and so that's what I try to instill in my students, you know, not only in their careers but in their lives as well. Because it's all intertwined. It's all the same, you know.

[16:04] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[16:05] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah.

[16:06] Rory O'Malley: No, I mean it is definitely like when your life and um things aren't going well personally or something, sometimes your art is what can like bring you out of some kind of funk and vice versa. When your art is really bringing you down, hopefully like you said, your circle and your life is what can absolutely hold you. And I think at the end, like I think if I were to sort of encapsulate the nugget that I think moves me is just I think I have a little yellow vibrant shiny ball of hope just like in the middle of me that I I don't ever want to go away.

[16:52] Kirsten Wyatt: And that's it does, you know, sometimes it maybe not it doesn't shine as bright, but I think it just sort of um, the more I'm able to engage with the world around me whether it's on stage or in life like that I that little ball of hope just gets a little shinier and then I hope it just sort of vibrates around to everything else, you know.

[17:14] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[17:14] Rory O'Malley: Well, I mean, all you have to do is be in a room with you for people to see that and agree with that. I mean, you're absolutely optimistic even when we're raging about the world I know that you know, and I hope to say that I could people would say the same thing about me, that there's an optimism or an energy because I at least try to start from there.

[17:42] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely.

[17:43] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely.

[17:44] Kirsten Wyatt: And it's better, it's better than sitting around and doing nothing and just bitching about it, right?

[17:48] Rory O'Malley: Like, right. Are we allowed to say that? If you could cut that out, you know.

[17:52] Kirsten Wyatt: You can say all the words, all the words, all the words.

[17:55] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[17:56] Kirsten Wyatt: No, it's but I think that that's probably served us well in life, obviously, having a positive optimistic outlook, but it's definitely served us in this industry.

[18:09] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[18:10] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely.

[18:10] Kirsten Wyatt: Because man, it certainly put it to the test. I mean, right? Like I think I came out of, you know, I came to Los Angeles first, but I definitely was like an Annie and YC just got here this morning. You know, like that was me when I got into this industry.

[18:31] Rory O'Malley: And, you know, it the whole business works very hard to prove that attitude wrong.

[18:39] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely.

[18:41] Kirsten Wyatt: And I just I'm hoping that I can continue to find that person in myself and make sure she still exists.

[18:53] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[18:53] Kirsten Wyatt: Or I should say she still exists.

[18:55] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[18:55] Kirsten Wyatt: She.

[18:56] Rory O'Malley: Yes, whatever. I'm all about all pronouns all the time. Um, so I think that one of the ways that I've done that is when I do teach, when I do have a master class, or when I'm in front of students who have that kind of optimism.

[19:15] Kirsten Wyatt: So do you feel that when you're teaching that you're being fed in that way that you're able to?

[19:15] Kirsten Wyatt: I yeah, absolutely. There's nothing, there is nothing like I've never experienced um such uh this kind of joy as to when like you say something, and my student gets it, and it like immediately something clicks inside of them and they're changed forever, and like their work improves, and you're just like I helped do that. That's so exciting.

[19:47] Kirsten Wyatt: I was like a small part of this person's, you know, success. Um, and that feels really great. That feels really great.

[19:56] Rory O'Malley: I want to take your class because I honestly I feel like a lot of times, you know, there are good teachers out there who are like listen, honey.

[20:07] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah, it's gonna take a lot of work and you're gonna be beat down by the end of this. But I can imagine for your students, it's gotta be such a delight because of your positivity, and you know, there's gotta be a lot of support in that class.

[20:23] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, there is support, and you know, so just to do a small plug, I teach at Actor Therapy, which is um run by Lindsay Mendez and Ryan Scott Oliver. And I think it really does start with them though. You know, it's a very top-down um organization where like their attitude is very much the same, you know, they're that really there to find every person's gift, whatever that might be.

[20:48] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, so uh I'm happy to be a small part of that and really um and really like you know, instill in each of my students that they have something to offer. Everybody has something to offer. You just gotta find out what it is and be willing to give it, you know?

[21:04] Rory O'Malley: So that's what I think.

[21:07] Rory O'Malley: So you might have had a little bit of trouble getting cast when you got to college, but clearly things worked out as soon as you left if you got into your Good Man Charlie Brown. Um, what was that like?

[21:19] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh my god.

[21:22] Kirsten Wyatt: Right out of school or what?

[21:24] Kirsten Wyatt: I literally, Rory, I just kept my mouth shut and stood in the back and watched like all of the brilliance and tried whenever I had to go on to even have a tiny fraction of it. Um, I think understudying—

[21:35] Rory O'Malley: Did you?

[21:35] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, I mean, keep going. I want to know all about it because I saw the show and it meant I like I said to Alana Lavin, it meant a lot to me because yes, it was a kid's show, but it was so beautifully done, so so great. And at that moment in time, for whatever reason, it really spoke to me, especially because that cast was so stellar. So I can only imagine the awe of having to step in for—

[21:59] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh my, I mean it was intimidating, but um, but they were all very kind to me. And um, I really do feel strongly that understudying, standing by, um, swinging, those are I really think every actor at some point should have like should do it if given the opportunity.

[22:26] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, for whatever reason, those have become like dirty words in our industry, and I inherently that makes me angry. Um, because they are uh swings, understudies, covers, you know, standbys, ensemble, they are the MVPs of our industry. I don't care what anybody says a hundred percent.

[22:48] Kirsten Wyatt: They I I that's I have so much pride being in an ensemble because I know that I have to do everything, you know? Um, but anyway, I I took my experience with your Good Man Charlie Brown. I would it really taught me not only how to be an understudy, but also how that company was so kind to me.

[23:10] Kirsten Wyatt: So it really gave me the knowledge I learned from that because now you know I learned when an understudy goes on, I'm kind to them. And um, I'll never understand when people are rude to people who are literally saving their butts in the show. You know what I mean?

[23:29] Rory O'Malley: Yes, yes, I know.

[23:32] Kirsten Wyatt: I I I don't get that either. I I I mean, to me, swings understudies are absolutely the most brilliant talented people ever.

[23:42] Kirsten Wyatt: I don't that was my Broadway debut as well, was being really um well, I was standby for um uh in Spelling Bee.

[23:51] Rory O'Malley: Oh, sure.

[23:53] Kirsten Wyatt: Barfay and for Coney Bear.

[23:56] Rory O'Malley: So yeah, I was going on for Barrett, Foa, and Josh Gabb.

[24:00] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, okay. My Broadway debut was my going on for my college roommate, Josh Gabb.

[24:05] Rory O'Malley: How hilarious.

[24:06] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes, it's when Todd Winapane went and and he did a show. I think it was with Jen Clay.

[24:12] Rory O'Malley: Hilarious, such a small thing.

[24:13] Kirsten Wyatt: And so he yeah, he took a leave, and I um I was there for like four months.

[24:20] Rory O'Malley: That's amazing.

[24:21] Kirsten Wyatt: That's amazing.

[24:22] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, yeah.

[24:23] Kirsten Wyatt: Going on as an understudy for the first time is one of the most terrifying slash exhilarating things.

[24:30] Rory O'Malley: My Broadway debut was going on for Kirsten Chenowith, and the audience literally like groaned when they found out she wasn't there.

[24:35] Kirsten Wyatt: I was backstage and B.D. Wong was like, it's okay, welcome to Broadway.

[24:39] Rory O'Malley: I was like, Thank you.

[24:40] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, and I don't remember anything about it except like I remember being finished with it and smiling really big. I have no memory of actually what happened, but it was very special.

[24:51] Kirsten Wyatt: And that company was super kind to me, and I'll never forget their kindness.

[24:56] Rory O'Malley: That's what everyone says when they talk about going on for the first time, especially as an understudy. What do you think that where do we go in our minds when we can't remember any of it? Like, what is, can you put describe that feature?

[25:11] Kirsten Wyatt: I think it's like adrenaline. I literally I actually think it might be sort of like being so present in the moment that like all you have is that moment and then it just goes away. And and you're just skating by on adrenaline, and um it's like hyper-awareness almost. Um yeah, I I I certainly remember other parts of you know, I've been in understudy a few times, uh, you know, so I certainly remember other times, but that first time I I remember before and I remember directly after, but anything about being on stage I have no recollection of.

[25:50] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[25:51] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, it's it's a crazy feeling. It really is. So so what happened after your good man Charlie Brown?

[25:58] Kirsten Wyatt: Then I got to um I went on again with my little uh understudy swing journey. I was hired as the vacation swing at You're in Town, the musical. And then I eventually replaced my very good friend Jen Cody in the cast uh as little Becky Two Shoes. Um, and and then such a fun role. Touch of such an amazing role.

[26:19] Rory O'Malley: I know.

[26:20] Kirsten Wyatt: I loved that show. I love doing that show, and I loved being with that company too. Um, and then from there, you know, I've been really fortunate. I I've done the Broadway many times. I've done, and then I work regionally a lot, and every once in a while, you know, turn on your television and don't blink, but I might be there.

[26:25] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[26:25] Kirsten Wyatt: You know.

[26:42] Rory O'Malley: What do you feel like the the differences in those two worlds TV versus Broadway?

[26:47] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, there's I miss the audience on the TV.

[26:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[26:51] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, I it's really comedy is really hard on the TV if you don't have a live audience. Um because you're like, is this funny? I don't know. What what was happening? I have no idea. Um right, especially when you were the munchkin, you heard some laughs. That's what sparked it. So you're like, where are the laughs?

[27:07] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, like is is am I landing this? If you do make the camera people laugh, you you know you're probably doing well. They're not gonna laugh for just anything.

[27:15] Kirsten Wyatt: But no, I love theater is where my heart is, and and uh and I uh I hope to get back to the Broadway very soon. We'll see.

[27:24] Rory O'Malley: Well well, I saw you in a production of Greece.

[27:28] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh, yeah, probably three or four times. I I think I really think it was that because I saw you know our our mutual friend Anna White and uh she I I worked with her for years, and so she would go on as different roles. Yes, but um I I've got to see you, and that that was such an amazing guest. That's actually right when I moved to New York from Los Angeles too. So I think that was another reason why I saw it multiple times. But that was a a crazy thing. You were a part of that show, and it was coming out of a reality TV show on TV. And of course, it's uh Max and Laura too are wonderful, wonderful people. Um, what was that like being a part of a Broadway company? Um and kind of like accepting these two new TV stars.

[28:19] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah. Well you know the cool thing about that company was that there were so many young people it was uh I think in that show we had 14 Broadway debuts. So that's like more than half the company.

[28:32] Rory O'Malley: That was Lindsay Mendez's Broadway DV as well.

[28:35] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah it was hilariously. Yeah and uh and so I think that sort of set the tone for everything you know Max and Laura were so lovely and wonderful but we just I mean everybody was new and excited and we just swept it all in and it became part of the experience that there was a bunch of like young new talent on Broadway and um yeah it was a really interesting fun show to do yeah I mean it was it was it was uh I don't know I think that's probably why I have such a vivid memory of it is because there was so much energy coming from it and excitement and when I got to the city I remember every single show that I saw and knew that you guys were so excited and I was excited too you guys performed on the Tony Awards what was that it was that experience it was so it's the only time I've ever done the Tony's actually in all the years I've been in New York and all the shows I've done that's the only time it was exhilarating like you don't realize how big Radio City Music Hall is until you like walk out onto that stage and it's like breathtaking.

[29:44] Rory O'Malley: Oh my God of seats um yeah I had no idea.

[29:50] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, it's a football field of seats.

[29:52] Rory O'Malley: It really is.

[29:53] Kirsten Wyatt: So much fun. But it's huge.

[29:56] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. You've had you've had um so much success and you've been able to uh work in so many different in so many different ways from the get go. But I know there's there's times where you're not working. And we've talked about like having you know how you deal with rejection and and having a solid foundation of life. Um how do you deal with you have so many close friends in this business? How do you deal with uh jealousy and comparing yourself to other people?

[30:27] Kirsten Wyatt: We talk about this all the time here. Because you can have the greatest friends in the world in this business and not be employed and see them excelling and be so excited for them, but it's only human to be like scared for yourself because of their success. How do you deal with that?

[30:43] Kirsten Wyatt: Um I focus on you know, this is gonna sound completely lame, but you can't compare yourself to everybody else, right? Like everybody has their own journey. Apples and oranges are different, both are delicious. Um, and an apple can't be an orange and an orange can't be an apple, like no matter how hard they try. So I focus on admiring and supporting. I mean, listen, my best friend just won a Tony Award, right? Uh, but it was one of the most exciting moments, I'm sure, of her life, but also of my life. I'll take a little credit for it too.

[31:24] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[31:25] Kirsten Wyatt: Um and uh and I I was um I really was like sort of searching myself. I'm like, am I am I jealous at all? And you know what? I'm not, which is weird and freeing to be like, oh, I don't, I'm just I can be 100% just happy and ecstatic and thrilled for her. Lindsay, uh Mendez is who I'm talking about. And um, and and I don't feel like people's successes take away from anything from me, right? Like, right. We have I I don't know. I I feel like you don't lose anything. You know, there isn't a there isn't a a finite amount of success or love or joy in the world. It's it's bottomless, right? If you think of it that way. So someone else's success isn't taking anything away from yours. Um and uh, and so I think oh, and and trust me though, I've definitely felt like why when me, when is it my turn?

How about me? You know? Um but I think I don't know, you just have to not wallow in that and realize that you know, you're you're worth it, and um when the time is right, um you will have whatever you need to um continue.

[32:55] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[32:56] Kirsten Wyatt: I mean, I I think that, you know, for me it's a it's a matter of experience in this business and realizing that other people's success is not your failure. Yeah. And that you know, it's much easier to be happy for the people you love. So just love people, like love, like you know.

[33:06] Rory O'Malley: Much easier.

[33:18] Kirsten Wyatt: And and and also I've found that those people and those in that moment, they need you. Like your loved ones, it's a wonderful moment or it's a you know a successful job that somebody gets. It's great, but it's a wonderful moment.

[33:35] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[33:36] Kirsten Wyatt: And um, you know, it's it's important to remember that there are challenges to success as well.

[33:45] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[33:46] Kirsten Wyatt: Can I say one more thing? Which is that I don't think uh listen, I've been around I've I've I moved to New York in 1997, right? And and I've worked steadily and I I've seen a lot of things. And the one thing I notice is that no matter what sort of echelon of success you're on in our business, I don't think it ever gets easier. I don't think, you know, I know I know people who have a ridiculous amount of success in the this business. And guess what? They're sitting around for their a waiting for their agents to call them just like I am. And it there really isn't there are very few people in this industry whose career arcs straight up. You know, it's full of dips and valleys, and no matter who you are.

[34:33] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[34:34] Kirsten Wyatt: And um, yeah, I just that's also something I always keep in mind. It's like there are peaks and valleys to every career. And um that no matter what.

[34:46] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[34:46] Kirsten Wyatt: No, I mean it's the reason I started this is because I I've I truly felt that people, especially young people, thought that if you get through the threshold of your Broadway debut, then it's just up, up, up, up from there. And just, and just you know, you try to like figure out which next Broadway show you'll be in. You decide from, you know, it's it's so different from what you think it is on the outside.

[35:13] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely, and I've always felt better when I have honest conversations with fellow actors and people in the business. So, you know, that's why I'm I'm I have these conversations to have them publicly to say like, oh yeah, we're all on this journey, so it's scary for all of us, it's great for all of us, it's hard, but I totally agree that no matter where you are on your journey of your career, there are scary days, there are difficult days, and there are great days. There are great days when you're waiting on tables and you're auditioning to uh be on on Broadway, and there are awful days after you've won your Oscar or Tony and you don't know what your next job's that is just both of those things are absolutely um so uh something else that we always talk about here, and you know, we we're starting a revolution. We are we we're we're the reason that we've been um talking so much in the last couple months is because an election is coming up and uh November 6th, and everyone needs to be registered to vote.

[36:27] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes, they do.

[36:28] Rory O'Malley: And um, they absolutely have to have to have to be registered to vote. Um, and that has been very important to you and I.

[36:36] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, I guess we should just like finally just talk about it. So I uh my husband Gerald and I wanted to do something positive because we were so down in the dumps about the world, and so we reached out to Broadway Cares about putting together uh social media um uh movement called Belt the Vote instead of Rock the Vote. And um the folks, our friends over there at Broadway Care said, Well, Kirsten Wyatt is putting together a voter registration table at the flea market. You should connect with her. And I was like, Oh my god, I love her. And it's that was like what back in July, you know, and ever since then, we have been trying to figure out the best way to motivate the theater community to register voters.

Um, and it has been fantastic. And I just have to say, I want to say it publicly, privately, wherever I can, that your work on this has shown me that you are a wonderfully passionate, dedicated human being for our community and I and for the country, and I'm so inspired by you.

[37:53] Rory O'Malley: And I'm so glad that this has made us closer and then I've gotten to know you better. But your work on it and how much you've thrown yourself into it and just been a leader has been so inspiring.

[38:07] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, so and right back at you. I mean, this would not be half possible without you and Gerald. So, you know, your passion is equal, if not exceeding mine. So hooray. I'm glad that we're working together, you know, because it takes a village.

[38:25] Rory O'Malley: It yes, it does. And I think that someone was asking me, like, well, how did this happen? And I was like, I don't know. You know, like you don't know when you start to say you want to make a change to do something, you don't need to know how or really have a lot of skill set.

[38:46] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, we have zero.

[38:46] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah. I think that people are always waiting for somebody else who's more equipped to make a change or to spark the conversation. But it really just takes wanting to make a change or reaching out to like-minded people and saying, what can we do? What small thing can we do? Because after you grab more people and it just snowballs into something bigger.

[39:15] Kirsten Wyatt: And you know, I mean, kudos to Broadway Cares, right? Because they really are in our industry this source of goodness and connection, and you know, how fortuitous is it that you and I both went to them? Because of course we did, because that's where we go when we want to do good in our community. We always go to Broadway Cares and thank goodness for Tom Viola and everybody over there who connected us.

[39:42] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, no, it's I think that we don't take it for granted, Broadway Cares in our theater community, but I don't think we realize how unique it is to the entertainment industry that, you know, people in Hollywood are like, wait, what is Broadway Cares? What is that, you know? Like is there anything comparable to that in LA or in other industries? And I just don't see it where all these different companies are raising money for one organization that has the power to make such a huge difference.

[40:25] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah. Um yeah, I mean, they raise probably like 11, 12, definitely over 10 million dollars a year.

[40:33] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely. And give out grants and money to over 400 organizations all across the country. And whenever there has been a need for a charity or for something like voter registration to start an initiative, when Gavin Creel and Jenny Cannellis and I went to Tom Viola and Broadway Cares and said we need to do something about marriage equality, they stepped up immediately. And they're always there.

[41:05] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah. Um yeah, we're very lucky.

[41:08] Rory O'Malley: We are. We're so lucky in that way. And so when we said, you know, can we do something about voter registration? It was like yes. What do you need? How do, yeah, like let's make connections with people.

[41:19] Kirsten Wyatt: And you guys did a voter registration at the Broadway Flea Market. I went back to LA before we got to that, but you had such success there. It looked like so much fun. I had total FOMO.

[41:33] Rory O'Malley: It was really exciting. You know, it's for folks maybe who don't know what the flea market is, it's a huge fundraiser for Broadway Cares and basically shows and organizations take over, I think 44th and 45th Street and Schubert Alley in New York City. And they just sell, it's like a giant yard sale. It's hilarious. Tyne Daly has her own booth and she just sells things.

[42:01] Kirsten Wyatt: Does she do that every year?

[42:04] Rory O'Malley: I think she does. I saw that and I was like, oh, Tyne Daly has a booth, and I was like, I know, I know. But anyway, so Broadway Cares let us, you know, they said, absolutely, let's do this voter registration table at the flea market. And what was amazing about it was that there were so many young people who love Broadway and who were so ready to step up and register. I mean, I think we probably registered 30 or 40 new voters that day alone, which was really incredible, not to mention just having people like checking their registration, and we even were able to like get a few absentee ballots sent out to folks, you know, things like that.

[42:46] Rory O'Malley: So, and then we had this giant banner that was just like our sign, you know, it's like voter registration. And I had the idea the night before, I was like, well, a lot of people probably are gonna say that they're registered. So how do we get them engaged? And so what we did is we just had them sign our banner sort of as a commitment to vote in this election coming up and not to forget and to show up at the polls and you know we told them it wasn't a binding legal agreement, but it was so, so smart, so smart.

[43:25] Kirsten Wyatt: Kristen, you are, that's like what a good leader is. They're not just passionate, but they are able to give actions to the community. I always found like when we were doing stuff for marriage equality, that that's the hardest part. You can find passionate people, but what do you do with it? Where do you affect change? Where do you, how do you utilize that energy?

[43:48] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely. And more than once since we've been talking about voter registration, you've come up with such great ideas, and I think that, you know, I've said it to you privately. I'm gonna say it on the podcast. I'll be on whatever campaign for whatever you're running for at any time. I think that you have a very natural gift of leadership. A lot of that also, you're just involved in the community and it's in such a positive way. One of the ways that you're involved is with Actors Equity Association, our union.

[44:27] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes.

[44:28] Rory O'Malley: And I don't think that I've really talked to someone who's as knowledgeable about the stage union as you.

[44:35] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh so I know, I don't think I've really gone well let me just tell you right now there are a lot of people who know a lot more than me so we're gonna hook you up with them as well.

[44:45] Rory O'Malley: Well but I think that, you know, like I mean like not I don't need to get into the weight but but like what brought you to be so involved in the union and why is it important to you?

[44:45] Kirsten Wyatt: Well I grew up in a union household first and foremost. My parents are teachers and so they grew up in West Virginia as we mentioned before and they were active members of the teachers union and I really saw firsthand that all work has dignity, right? I mean that's the basis of a union and I got involved with Actor’s Equity, you know, it's a union I was able to join when I was straight out of school and I saw very quickly that it's a lot easier to stand with people with a giant, you know, group of people who all believe the same thing than it is to fight for yourself alone, right?

[45:43] Rory O'Malley: And so I started getting involved in the union, and it we're artists and we're so lucky to have the voices that we have. And you know, I feel a lot of times people are like, well, you get to do what you love, you know. So lucky you, and somehow they hold that against us. And I think the union part of what the union does is it steps in, we step in, because the union is us, right? We step in and we say, yes, we get to do what we love, but you have to treat us with dignity.

[46:24] Kirsten Wyatt: And by treating us with dignity, that means you have to pay us a fair wage, you have to provide safe and sanitary working conditions. You are not allowed to leave us in the middle of Iowa if our show closes. You have to, you know, get us back to where we belong. Or you know that happened to George M. Cohan back in the day. That's an old story. But yeah, you know, I think fundamentally we are workers and we deserve all the rights that an employee deserves.

[46:55] Rory O'Malley: You know, we have a lot of labor issues that are happening right now, right? Like the fight for a $15 minimum wage, you know. You know, we look at, I mean, I'll just call out Amazon, right? The richest company, one of the richest companies in the world with the richest man in the world leading it. And they don't pay their workers a living wage. I think they actually just said they would pay them $15 an hour, but I think there's strings attached that I'm not a fan of. I won't get into the weeds. But you know, just like that idea. And I really do think we are, I think we are the middle class, right? I don't consider myself a Broadway star. I consider myself a journeyman actor. I call myself Broadway blue collar.

I am fortunate to make my living doing this, and the way I'm able to make my living is because my union ensures that I have enough benefits and the working conditions so that I can maintain a middle class lifestyle. And so I think that's something that we all deserve.

[48:00] Kirsten Wyatt: I remember someone telling me this story that there was a meeting and a meeting of producers and some people and they were saying, I think actors are getting paid well enough. I heard of someone who just bought a house.

[48:21] Rory O'Malley: I know.

[48:22] Kirsten Wyatt: And they were and everyone was like, well, what's wrong with that? Like, isn't that the goal of life? Actors buying houses. How dare we? How dare we even dream? Like that there was some kind of, you know, like it was a luxury item. I reject the starving artist paradigm that has been created for us, and quite frankly, that we proliferate a lot as artists. So I'd like us to stop doing that, please.

[48:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. No, I mean, I love that blue collar Broadway.

[48:56] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, you know, because really, because most of Broadway is blue collar Broadway.

[49:03] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely. Most of Broadway is not, you know, just taking different offers or just going from their hit TV show and doing like three months on Broadway.

[49:15] Kirsten Wyatt: Right, right. Most of Broadway is made up of middle class working performers who once that job ends have no idea where their next job is gonna come from, right?

[49:26] Rory O'Malley: Exactly. And that's the reality of it.

[49:29] Kirsten Wyatt: So yeah. So that we deal with a lot of instability. So I think at the very least, our employers should be paying us what we're worth when we are working.

[49:38] Rory O'Malley: You said something else that I think is really important when you said that the union and then you said us. We are the union. A lot of times, I mean, I know you've heard this that actors complain about the union. Like the union isn't doing this.

[49:52] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh yeah, well, what good is the union?

[49:57] Rory O'Malley: And I want to say, well, what was the last union meeting you were at?

[50:00] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely.

[50:01] Rory O'Malley: Because, you know, you are the union.

[50:03] Kirsten Wyatt: Yes.

[50:04] Rory O'Malley: When you're complaining about the union, we're complaining about ourselves.

[50:08] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And you know, I think it's a two-way street. You know, I think that Actors Equity Association has in the past few years has really ramped up their communications and really been better about messaging to our membership.

[50:30] Kirsten Wyatt: However, I think we can do even better. On the flip side of that is I think that our members have been better about letting us know what their issues are. By us, I mean I sit on the council. I'm an elected member, and I sit on the governing body of our union. There are like 83 people who volunteer their time to help create policy that governs the union, right? So the way that we do that is by being able to listen to our members and really enacting the change that they want to see.

[51:09] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[51:09] Kirsten Wyatt: Oh well, I mean, it's so important, and I feel like the union definitely has done a better job about messaging and also like having access to things online, being able, you know, the website's better. It's a slow but steady progress, I think. But you know, ultimately it's up to us, the membership. There are 51,000 members of Actors Equity Association all across the country. And ultimately it is up to us to be the union that we want to be. And as far as I'm concerned, we are a labor union, you know, and we fight for our workers' rights and equality within our industry.

[51:54] Rory O'Malley: So how do you suggest to people to get more involved in the union, whether they're union or what about like non-union actors? I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who aren't union yet.

[52:03] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely. I think our future members, I think there's sometimes people feel like they're less than because they're not union, and I wholeheartedly disagree with that. I see these young people as the future of our union. And so, you know, treat your craft, treat it like an artist, but also treat it like a worker. And honor some— a lot of times I've worked in situations where it's a mix of union and non-union folks. And I always really enjoy talking to our future members, you know, and answering their questions. And I think joining a union, you know, there's a time and a place for everyone. And that's a really personal decision. So it's something that everybody has to make for themselves. So I would never want to pressure anyone, but I'm always happy to answer questions. You are welcome to reach out to me, and I will be happy to answer any questions or listen to any concerns from any actor, union or non-union. Because we're all the same.

[53:23] Rory O'Malley: Right. I feel like, you know, a lot of times when people are trying to make that decision of when to make the leap of, you know, becoming union or not, when you have the option, and if you're feeling like you want to delay it to become union or what have you, I say either you're doing this or you're not. Either, you know, like you gotta go with it or this is a hobby.

[53:54] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah.

[53:54] Rory O'Malley: And I'm very pro-union.

[53:56] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah. And I, you know, my mom was an accountant, but she was a single mom whose father was a part of a union. And when our teachers went on strike when I was in public school, she wouldn't let me cross the picket line for a month. And so I would stay home by myself and not cross the picket line. And it really instilled in me the importance of workers' rights.

[54:23] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[54:23] Kirsten Wyatt: And in one, you know, I was talking with a friend of mine yesterday. And, you know, she was saying that she worked with some younger union members this summer, and, you know, that they would work through their breaks. So in our contracts, we have negotiated breaks. You can't, you either take a break after 55 minutes for five minutes, or you take a break after an hour and 20 minutes for 10 minutes. And she was working with a bunch of young people who would work through their breaks, and finally she was like, listen, we gave up something at the negotiating table so that you could take this break. So do me a favor and take it. Because when you don't take it, you're not only hurting yourselves, you're hurting all of us. Because then producers see, hey, they can do it, it's fine. What's the big deal? You know what I mean?

[55:19] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[55:20] Kirsten Wyatt: So yeah, it's again kind of going back to the beginning of what we started talking about, which is that your actions affect not only yourself, but everything around you. We have a ripple effect that no gesture, however small, really does have impact. So you just have to be conscious of that, you know.

[55:40] Um, we've talked a lot about body image and especially for women, for men too, what that it's so difficult and like, you know, how do you stay positive about yourself and in a career in general? But I feel like in talking to you, I'd like to talk more about just like being a woman in business in this, you know, because you know, we're both feminists, and I'm feeling very, very aware of the conversation nationally. And I feel like I want to hear from women in my industry about how I can support women better, how women's voices can be heard, and just your thoughts on the issue.

[56:32] Kirsten Wyatt: Well, I think there's so many ways our industry tends to minimize women, whether it's by our looks, our age, the color of our skin, our body size, you know, we sort of, I think we're at a crossroads. I'm gonna get very feminist here, where we have the opportunity to topple the patriarchy of show business, you know.

[57:07] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[57:07] Kirsten Wyatt: And it's not gonna be easy and it's not going to be quick. It's gonna be a really slow process, but I think it really does start with us women and our allies supporting and amplifying each other's voices. And, you know, I notice even with myself that I carry, because I'm a certain woman, right? I'm a character woman. I am 43 years old. I am not as skinny as I used to be. I've got a little bit of gray hair, I've seen wrinkles on my skin, and I've never been like the beauty queen woman, right? And I have noticed I carry some resentment toward the women who are young and skinny and beautiful and all that. And I realized that the other day, I was like, you know what? That's not fair. That's not fair. And I, as a woman, need to support every single woman in this industry.

[58:09] Rory O'Malley: Um, yeah, I don't know what else to say about it other than go ahead.

[58:16] Kirsten Wyatt: I think that that's interesting. And I know what specifically what you're saying, because in women supporting women, it has to also take into account like there are younger women who you need to not, you know, be negative towards because of who they are.

[58:33] Rory O'Malley: No, even if they're naive or whatever they are, because they're brand new.

[58:37] Kirsten Wyatt: Absolutely. And that's, you know, we are all in the same, we're playing the same game. Like, let's play it together, you know. I will also say I think diversity in casting and diversity in voices we choose to produce really is important right now, you know. I loved going to see Come From Away because that was a group of people on stage who just looked like people, you know, and there were all shapes and sizes and colors and vibes and all of that stuff. It was really wonderful to see, you know.

[59:25] Kirsten Wyatt: I really think that it's important to really consider like who are you putting on the stage right now? And we are done with having— this isn't necessarily only about women, but it is about diversity. You know, gone is the time where our stage must reflect the world that we live in. I can't say that enough. So when you are looking at casting a show, please consider that, you know.

[59:57] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[59:57] Kirsten Wyatt: We need to reflect the world that we live in, end of story, like full stop, done.

[1:00:02] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:00:02] Kirsten Wyatt: And I think that's what audiences are craving is to see a mirror image of the reality of what the world is. And that takes a little bit of creativity. And when you take that chance, like look at Hamilton, when you take that chance, you will be rewarded.

[1:00:22] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[1:00:22] Kirsten Wyatt: Um, yeah. I mean, and I, you know, to talk a little bit more about young performers, it's funny you say that because I found myself doing the exact same thing. I think we're pretty damn lucky to have survived in this business long enough to see a new generation of people. And I know that what's been great for you is that you have like students that you can see, you know, be inspired by. Sometimes when I'm looking at someone just showing up, like I said, like that, that like me, NYC just got here this morning. You know, when I see that, I can be pessimistic and say, like, well, you just wait. This industry's gonna hit you. You know, and that's not the right attitude. Like, it's not, it shouldn't just because it has been hard for us in certain ways, doesn't mean that we should pass on that difficulty to the next generation. That we can support each other.

[1:01:28] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, and empower each other ultimately, right? Like I think that's it, nobody gets in this business because we think it's gonna be easy, you know. So I think you have a choice to either, you know, be pessimistic about it or spread a little joy, which as we mentioned costs you nothing.

[1:01:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:50] Kirsten Wyatt: No.

[1:01:50] Rory O'Malley: Well, I think that is, um, spreading joy is a talent and you are extremely talented.

[1:01:58] Kirsten Wyatt: Thank you.

[1:01:59] Rory O'Malley: I think that you have a gift for that and so many other things. And you know, once again, I just want to say how much of a leader I think you are, and how I'm so grateful for all the work that you do in our community on the union and for workers and for voters. Everything you've done for voters. Yeah, like you've been so amazing, and I've learned so much from you. And you know, hopefully, this is just the beginning of really bringing awareness around voter registration and voting in elections for I can't wait to see what we do next, Rory.

[1:02:37] Kirsten Wyatt: Yeah, it'll be fun.

[1:02:39] Rory O'Malley: Um, I adore you doing it. Thank you for asking me. This is so much fun.

[1:02:45] Kirsten Wyatt: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.