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[0:01] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 79 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:06] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:13] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers. Welcome to Living the Dream. I'm your host, Rory O'Malley. Thank you so much for downloading and listening. As always, please rate and review, tell your friends about the podcast. I love having these conversations, so I really appreciate when you guys spread the word about them.

[0:32] Rory O'Malley: Uh, my guest this week is my good buddy Oak. Oak was the original Hercules Mulligan slash James Madison in a little show called Hamilton. And I just love this guy. He is a big teddy bear. And he's big, and he's a teddy bear. And he was so sweet to me when I joined the cast of Hamilton because I was coming into the show about eight months into the run when it was a huge phenomenon already. And Jonathan Groff was leaving early. And I talked to this about this a little bit with him, but he was so sweet to me and really welcomed me and would come into my dressing room every show and talk and get to know me. And I just so appreciated that because those guys were working so hard. And uh everyone was nice, but Oak truly, truly loved coming in and and and uh shooting the shit with me, as you say.

Um so it was great to get to have him on the podcast. He is now on ABC in their hit show Station 19, a Shonda Rhyme show, the spinoff of Gray's Anatomy, playing a fireman. And uh he's just a really good actor. He's a great musical theater performer, and he's got a really great look on the business. And I didn't know his story, and it's it's pretty amazing. Um he got in a lot of trouble at school and had a lot of trouble with authorities, he says. And it's really remarkable that he is where he is now. And um I'm proud to call him a friend, and I think the world of him. This is my buddy Oak.

[2:22] Oak - Episode #79: I just said Rory asked me to do something, and I just say yes.

[2:26] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. That's why I love you, Oak.

[2:28] Oak - Episode #79: That's why I like you.

[2:31] Rory O'Malley: Where are you now? Are you on set?

[2:33] Oak - Episode #79: Uh no, we just had our the holiday shindig with the whole crew, and I'm back at home in my apartment. Um, just relaxing like a mofo.

[2:43] Rory O'Malley: Oh, that's so great.

[2:44] Oak - Episode #79: Mm-hmm.

[2:45] Rory O'Malley: How is it? We're we're recording, by the way. We've already started.

[2:49] Oak - Episode #79: Great. Um, how is it being on a big time TV show after being a theater guy for so long? Now you're on a hit TV show, a Shonda Rhyme show on ABC, Station 19. What's it like? How much has it changed your life?

[3:07] Oak - Episode #79: Um, it's it's it's changed my life just in the fact that I've had to uproot and leave my own to come out here. I uh actually within a week, I I auditioned for this on a Tuesday, and then the next Tuesday I was on a flight out to shoot the pilot. So I was on a flight out to live in LA for six weeks to shoot a pilot.

[3:27] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god. And that's when I saw you on the street because I was doing his end of the Pantages.

[3:30] Oak - Episode #79: Yes, and you were I was so excited to see you. It was thrilling.

[3:35] Rory O'Malley: Yes, I was yes, they put me, I was across the street at the W Hotel. Yeah, it was all just just it was just lightning, lightning fast. That was a year ago.

[3:43] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, that was a year ago.

[3:47] Rory O'Malley: How are you adapting to the schedule? Because it's very different, but it's still it's long hours, but it but at least you have weekends. Like it's it's different than theater, different kind of uh of challenge.

[4:02] Oak - Episode #79: It is I mean yeah, it is. It exercises different muscles. Weekends are extremely nice. It's nice to have weekends, it's good to have weekends, but it's also hard because you're you're just on call for about eight months. You're just on call, and um, and that's hard, and it's easier to schedule time away in theater because you have understudies and that's part of the framework. But in film, you know, there's no such thing as an understudy. So yeah.

[4:27] Oak - Episode #79: It's just you. It's funny when I'm in doing TV, I always I always find myself going, Oh, when my understudy goes on, or when the other actor goes on, you're used to sharing the experience of playing the character with another actor, and there is no one. There is no one else.

[4:44] Rory O'Malley: No, there isn't.

[4:45] Oak - Episode #79: So if the schedule says we need you here now, that's it.

[4:48] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[4:49] Oak - Episode #79: You know, and and and not only that, they're just it's just so much bigger than you. Like the network is putting in millions, and there are all these crew people and there are hundreds and hundreds of people. There are a lot of people in theater too, but um, they're just a lot, there's a lot of money at stake. So, you know, if I just say, Hey, can I really go to my sister's wedding, it's like, okay, cool, but if you don't show up, we can't shoot. And that's mil literally millions of dollars.

[5:12] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[5:12] Oak - Episode #79: So it's it's it's it's hard in that as in that in that aspect where you're kind of really beholden to the schedule. Like when they c call you, they call you. But if they don't need you for a week, that's great. But if they need you for a week, it kind of doesn't matter what else is going on that week.

[5:25] Rory O'Malley: Right. It's not the same as the show must go on. It's like the show can't go on unless your face is up on the screen.

[5:33] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah.

[5:35] Rory O'Malley: Um, so what about artistically? Like, how has it changed um your performance or your approach to acting?

[5:45] Oak - Episode #79: Um I will say that I I've I've noticed that even like network TV is its own beast.

[5:52] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah. Um, because as you know, it's all about they they want to bang out these episodes, so there's a there's much more of a time crunch. Yeah. So I just find uh it just forces me to be very flexible in a way that I haven't been, in terms of as an actor on stage, we have freedom of movement, we're own editors. So if I want to take a beat extra long beat, I take an extra long beat. I get a note, and then tomorrow I'm like, eh, maybe I might take the note or not. But at the end, you know, but at the end of the day, you you are your editor, you are you know, you are your DP. You you you set up the shots by how you place your body on stage and and all of those things, and it's humbling because in TV and film, uh one thing I notice as an actor is I I lost the freedom of movement, meaning I may feel like in this moment emotionally, I should like throw my hands up and kind of like pace back and forth, but they're like, hey, that's cool, but we're shooting it this way, so you have to look at it this way, and if you do it that way, we have this many setups, and we have to get it from so many different angles.

[6:52] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[6:52] Oak - Episode #79: And so it just turns out that even your performance is is is tailored by others. And they've spent like twenty to thirty minutes lighting with a stand-in for you, so you don't want to mess up the lighting and yes, yeah. Yes, all of that. So even if I'm like, Oh no, I got a good thing, it's like, yeah, that's cool. But we already shot the master and we did the coverage on the other side. So I'm really glad the scene really hits you in a certain way, but you gotta do what you kind of initially set out to do. So it's definitely restrictive in in those ways, but it's also really freeing because you can make as many mistakes as you want. Not that you're trying to, but there aren't really mistakes, like you just have to keep trying to find the best take, the best moment.

[7:38] Oak - Episode #79: So I I mean that's kind of freeing, no?

[7:41] Rory O'Malley: And it and it is freeing in that sense because on stage, as you know, like you have one night and it's really great, and everything was hit and pop, and you're like, Great, that's awesome. I don't think I could do you know, you're like, I don't want to get in my head to try and recreate it. You can, and but you still have to keep doing it. But it's nice to do it once and be like, that's in the bag, I never have to say those words again. I never have to do any of that stuff again. I did it once really, really well, and that's it, and it lives on infinity, infinity, and beyond. And that aspect of it is nice when it hits, but it also, but the flip side is when you don't feel like you did your best, that's it, that's your decision, and it lives on for infinity, infinity, and beyond.

[8:17] Oak - Episode #79: Right. And with with theater, n uh you have every night the challenge of trying to find a better way to do it, a new way to do it, and uh that's also your hell because you can never you're never done. Your work is never done in theater.

[8:30] Rory O'Malley: You know what? And you know what's funny? That's how I feel when like I I I uh no shade to anybody, but I always feel when it comes to any actor that's like, you know, on theater they get bored, and I'm like, again, like what you said, you if if you're doing the work, there's no such thing as getting bored.

[8:47] Oak - Episode #79: Right.

[8:47] Rory O'Malley: Because no one is ever no one has mapped out every single moment, and it's completely alive in them. Like it takes time. Like every night you'll find something new and find something new and find something new, and you can always keep perfecting and being more present with who you're talking to, really listening. It's like we don't listen every single moment. But like that's that's the beauty of a long run is that then you can focus on every single moment. Listening and truly responding, and you you you can constantly be trying to make it better or improve or more grounded or whatever, what have you.

[9:19] Rory O'Malley: Well, let's talk about that that the last long run that you had in a little show called Hamilton. Um you I feel like I feel like you did. Did you do that show?

[9:31] Oak - Episode #79: I d I did.

[9:32] Rory O'Malley: I did. I feel like we spent a lot of time in my dressing room. I don't know. I feel like there was a pizza, maybe.

[9:37] Oak - Episode #79: There was there was a lot of food involved. Um, yeah, no, I I I was actually just looking through old pictures, and I have the the blow-up pizza that was left in the room from Groff. I don't even know what it was. I I think that I think somebody told me I forget, and I turned it into a Christmas tree.

[9:56] Rory O'Malley: Christmas tree.

[9:57] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, I decorated the room for the door decorating contest. And uh I have pictures of you coming up to visit me, which you always did, which I from let me tell you something. From the the moment I walked in that door, you were nothing but lovely and sweet to me. And it meant so much to me because when you're the new kid at school and your school is full of students who are on this magic carpet ride through Broadway in, you know, flying high. It's it's kind of daunting to jump on the ride with them and feel like you can do that. And you were so welcoming and wonderful. Everyone was, but you really took the time to spend time with me in my dressing room and get to know me, and I just so appreciate that.

[10:50] Oak - Episode #79: Wow, that's so great. It was it was a pleasure and a joy. It was easy. It's easy when when people are kind caring to like love on people when they got love in their hearts.

[10:59] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. It was a it was a good group of of people, and obviously everyone knew how lucky they were to be a part of um things at that at that moment in time. Um, but it was also you guys had been working on it for years, you know, it was workshops and and and readings and and different uh incarnations. And you done it off Broadway, which is the first time I saw it was when you guys did it at the public, and you were about eight months into the run on Broadway when I joined the cast. How you you talked a little bit about being able to con constantly um keep searching for the character and keep you know reapplying yourself and it that's how you're able to do it. Eight times a week of Hamilton is different than a lot of other shows because you need to you are an athlete, you played football, right?

[11:48] Oak - Episode #79: When you were yeah, it's kind of similar to being an athlete, don't you think?

[11:53] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[11:54] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah.

[11:55] Oak - Episode #79: Absolutely. I I I tell that uh I used to teach, and whenever I would, I'd say, um, you know, it it is it and and you know, like any actor knows you go to class and do all those rolling around exercises and breathing, and you know, you open up your body and you loosen it up. Um, and it kind of sometimes falls away by the wayside, kind of when you start working, because not everyone's doing it and no one's like pressing you to do it, and you can roll in like five minutes before half hour and kind of still do your show. But if you train like an athlete, that's when it's fun because it just it just became my it just became my workout. It just became like I how can I hit this as hard as I can, as healthy as I can, make sure my breathing is connected.

It's like if anyone who works out, you know, you had you when you have a good run, like when you're going and your breath is connected and everything is hitting, it's the best. And and and that's one aspect of it that I think is great to really keep it fresh, just with the physicality of it.

[12:45] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[12:45] Oak - Episode #79: And then and then it just doesn't weigh on you so much, you know. And then it's not a belaboring workout. Because if you're warmed up and you're ready to go, then it's like great. I'm gonna hit it. It's an awesome workout. People are screaming, it's amazing. I'm gonna go home and rest. That's when it's fun when your body, your instrument is prepared to do the job.

[13:00] Rory O'Malley: You played two characters in Hamilton, as as many of your castmates did, but I was so impressed by your choices for both of the characters. And honestly, your James Madison to me was I was in awe of it because your Hercules Mulligan is you know, the it was the uh the rebel, the like, you know, really big guy, and to me, that's like that's you, you know. Like I can see, I can see so much of you and him. Your James Madison was so poised and and older, and you had to find that completely in your physicality and and parting your hair.

[13:44] Oak - Episode #79: That was that that was the secret weapon.

[13:46] Rory O'Malley: To be real, it was the part, the part of the filter.

[13:49] Oak - Episode #79: That's where we always hung out at intermission when I was getting my reading. Checked on.

[13:53] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and we read Pima, Pima shows right.

[13:56] Oak - Episode #79: Right. We would read um our little Pima book with our our uh hair supervisor, Fred. Um Pima Shaw Drawn, um, the pocket book of just different Buddhist monk uh sayings and little w wisdom. And that was actually very that was beautiful. That was one of the most beautiful parts of my experience. I'm not gonna lie, it it really was like honestly, it it really just going, it's almost like our own little meditative mantra where every day we'd read a different passage, and it just kind of it just grounded me in a way, and I was looking forward to it.

[14:32] Oak - Episode #79: Just just everyday reading and just kind of have that yeah, it was great.

[14:37] Oak - Episode #79: It was it was you need to be grounded when you're having some kind of crazy experience like Hamilton. You need to. I remember during Book of Mormon, I was reading a lot of A Cartole, um, a new earth to just be present and make sure I was in that moment and wasn't looking for the next one. Instead, I was in the moment in the now and enjoying it. And it's it's it's important to kind of have a spiritual practice too, as an athlete.

[15:07] Oak - Episode #79: It is. I'm really just trying to get you to call me an athlete since you're an actual athlete with sports. That um this is as close as it's ever gonna get for me.

[15:16] Rory O'Malley: So you you are also you you are you're an emotional athlete.

[15:20] Oak - Episode #79: It's hard. No, honestly, all jokes, folks. Listen up, it's tough because the king, it's like a stop and start. Now imagine like a workout where someone says, Okay, you're gonna run for 10 minutes, okay. Now stop for like an hour and a half, do whatever you want, and then they just knock on your door, like, okay, another 10-minute run.

[15:37] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[15:37] Oak - Episode #79: That's basically like what it's really hard to do that. It was definitely the challenge of the show for me, for sure.

[15:42] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[15:43] Oak - Episode #79: Heck yeah. It's I mean, I always applauded you, Grof, Andrew Reynolds, all like anyone who did it, because it's like you just have to like just ramp up because we don't stop. So you have to come in and kind of meet that energy without doing everything that we're doing on stage to get it. So you just kind of have to like literally flip a switch on, bang it out, and then like turn the switch off and then just flip that fucker on again. It's not easy stuff.

[16:06] Rory O'Malley: No, you know what I would do to help was to go into the wings before I would make an entrance and watch you guys and feel the energy of you guys on stage and the audience, which was so incredible.

[16:22] Oak - Episode #79: That's so smart. I mean, it was the only way I was I I'm just used to being in the opening number, being in the beginning of a show, so that we're kind of starting as a team and not being this uh solo player. Um, but you know, I again getting to hang out with you throughout our time backstage, which you had very little time backstage, and um you always come in to visit me actually really helped because that it's the most isolating role I've ever played, where you're just kind of on your own.

[16:50] Rory O'Malley: I always was like, I don't want to be in people's way, people who are actually working. So I'll just hang out in my room. People can visit if they want to.

[17:00] Oak - Episode #79: No, it was it was welcoming. I mean, you I mean, hindsight, you know. You could you could have always bugged us and we're fine. And it's it's it's and that's the thing about it. That I I when I talked to people about the show, I said Hamilton was made up of in every show, there's someone who's the hardest working person. Now take that person for every show and then put them in the show.

[17:19] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[17:19] Oak - Episode #79: Basically, what you have. Everyone and then everyone came in. You were the same way, Andrew. Anyone who came in, like every it like just all pros who just stepped up. They're like, oh, okay, this is the room. Oh, everyone works hard as fuck. Great. And then everyone just like they just jumped in. They're like, Oh, that's you know, you always had that show where it's like, oh, I gotta bring my A game, and everyone did. Every single person did.

[17:39] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[17:40] Oak - Episode #79: Uh so let's let's talk a little bit about where you came from. You were born in New Jersey.

[17:48] Oak - Episode #79: I grew up in New Jersey.

[17:48] Oak - Episode #79: I graduated from West Orange High School.

[17:53] Rory O'Malley: Nice.

[17:54] Oak - Episode #79: Um not too far from the city.

[17:56] Rory O'Malley: Not far from the city. Did you go in to see Broadway shows or uh I got in trouble a lot in high school, so whenever they would have school trips, I always got suspended for something.

[18:06] Oak - Episode #79: And if you get suspended at all, and it negates you from going on the big school trips. From second grade, literally until 12th grade, I got suspended every year, and I was never able to go on any of the trips.

[18:18] Rory O'Malley: From second grade to 12th grade, you got suspended every year, Oak?

[18:23] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah.

[18:24] Rory O'Malley: My sweet Oak.

[18:27] Oak - Episode #79: I did. I did.

[18:29] Rory O'Malley: Now I can't even imagine that.

[18:32] Oak - Episode #79: I did. I did.

[18:34] Rory O'Malley: Well, uh, was it because um you didn't follow the rules, or you were like uh energetic?

[18:43] Oak - Episode #79: It was it was I had a real problem with authority.

[18:46] Rory O'Malley: Uh-huh.

[18:47] Oak - Episode #79: So I would always talk back. And um, I was very biting and rude, and I didn't it was hard for me if I didn't if I didn't feel as if you were I was kind of a smart ass, and if I didn't feel like you were as smart as I was, I just dismissed you completely in the most rude way.

[19:13] Oak - Episode #79: And that's what always get me in trouble. Like subtle insults to teachers or or back talking or getting smart or or whatever what have you, cursing someone out of like a baseball game, like what whatever it was. And I was very confrontational when I was younger. Like anything, I'd be like, cool, it's on, like donkey Kong.

[19:30] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[19:31] Oak - Episode #79: I am so glad that something has changed because I would not want to have to meet confrontational oak.

[19:38] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[19:39] Oak - Episode #79: No, no, no. You're a teddy bear to me, so I can't even imagine.

[19:42] Oak - Episode #79: Well, I am because I feel like I got it all out of my system. Unfortunately, everyone who knew me during grade school experienced it. But I I think, yeah, I think it's it it was good to experience that then, and just to see like, oh, that doesn't solve anything.

[19:55] Rory O'Malley: What what changed?

[19:58] Oak - Episode #79: How did you see that?

[19:59] Oak - Episode #79: Um, I actually I literally remember getting to it was eighth, it was either like ninth grade. Uh huh. I I remember I didn't have any friends in middle school because I alienated everybody. Because I was just like so just kind of I was very mean. Um and I just said, you know what, this is lonely, and I was nice to this girl named Sabrina, and then she was like, Oh my god, I really you're like you're really nice. She was like, I was always afraid of talking to you, but you're just very nice. And it was just like a nice feeling to have someone I actually talk to.

[20:33] Oak - Episode #79: And that kind of like made me realize like that defense, it just wasn't solving anything. I wasn't happy, I didn't have many friends, and I said, What am I doing this for? So that helped in terms of my peers. In terms of like trouble with authority, I didn't really learn that until I left high school.

[20:47] Oak - Episode #79: But in just terms of being kind with like just friends and peers and people around you, and everyone's not out to get me.

[20:53] Oak - Episode #79: Um, and that kind of came in ninth grade and I kind of worked on that.

[20:56] Oak - Episode #79: And then I like my trouble with authority kind of ironed itself out once I got to college.

[21:00] Rory O'Malley: Where did you go to school?

[21:02] Oak - Episode #79: I was at Mason Girls School of the Arts for a year.

[21:04] Rory O'Malley: Uh-huh.

[21:05] Oak - Episode #79: And uh I was kicked out of that program.

[21:11] Rory O'Malley: Uh-oh.

[21:11] Oak - Episode #79: Because the director of the the program more or less just kind of said, you know, this isn't maybe I should try and do something else. He said, you should try and do something that's not acting.

[21:20] Oak - Episode #79: And he meant and he said it with all the love, and it was one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me. But he uh he said, you know, try something else. Maybe acting isn't for you because you know, I grew up playing football in sports, so there were these there were these other kids, and like and in just in a straight acting program is very different from a musical theater acting program.

[21:40] Oak - Episode #79: So these kids are just like open and crying about like how their mom never like hugged them, and you know, and everyone's like so emotional. I'm like, why are y'all crying? Like, I'm here to like learn how to act and be on TV like Denzel. I'm not trying to hear cry about my mom and shit. Like, so like I was very guarded and and blocked and closed off.

[21:58] Oak - Episode #79: Um so my direct, yeah, he was like, you know, do something else because he's like, you know, you don't have the vulnerability and in all of those things. Uh so I went to the Espera Studio in New York and I just continued studying, and Karen Chamberlain was my teacher, and she was just kind of like, you know what, just stick with it.

[22:13] Oak - Episode #79: She said, you know, colleges will say whatever, but she's like, if this is what you want to do, it's one what you want to do. And I come from an immigrant family, so it it was hard. I had to tell my mom, because you know, I went there on the conservative through the conservatory.

[22:25] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[22:25] Oak - Episode #79: So when I got kicked out of conservatory at Rutgers University, I applied for the School of Arts and Sciences, but academia is not really my strong point, so I didn't really get into that. So I was kind of in no man's land. I was still part of Ruckers, but not part of any school within Rutgers.

[22:38] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[22:39] Oak - Episode #79: So it's hard. I told my mom, and I was in, you know, I was as an immigrant, I'm Nigerian. They're like college, college, college, college. And you know, it's it's important to have people on your side. Because my mom, I was crying, I was devastated. And my mom was like, Look, she was like, you don't have to cry, it's fine. You'll figure it out, do something else.

[22:56] Oak - Episode #79: So I I just stuck with it in in New York. And um and then I just I started working s and like down off off Broadway shows. The shipment was the first thing I did in New York with young Jean Lee. And from that I did neighbors at the public, but really my story has just been slow, it's been a slow, steady s pace from off off Broadway to an off Broadway show to a couple of regional shows to coming back and doing like a a show further uptown.

[23:22] Oak - Episode #79: And if my Broadway debut is like I was in the ensemble, I didn't have a line and I was covering three people. It's really been that ladder of climbing, but it's only because I made a choice. The moment that director told me I should do something else. You know, when you're eighteen, nineteen years old, I go to this conservatory and I'm like, if I can't make it there, this person knows he's seen a lot of actors. Like, what am I doing?

[23:44] Oak - Episode #79: But the moment he said that and I said, you know what, I'm gonna do this, and I made that choice, then no in the future could ever deter me. You know, there's nothing any casting director, there's nothing any director, there's nothing any producer, you know, there's nothing anyone can say to me at that point that hasn't been said.

[23:59] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[24:00] Oak - Episode #79: So it was very freeing where I was like, actually, I don't care if you say no, I've been told no before by the one person I idolize and I'm still doing it, so I'm just gonna keep doing it.

[24:09] Rory O'Malley: It's amazing because I I think that people don't realize that we all hear no, that everyone's hearers no, and the people who quote unquote make it or continue going in this in this uh profession are the ones who don't let that stop them.

[24:29] Oak - Episode #79: And you're gonna hear it at some point. And how amazing that you heard it so early on and you didn't let it have it didn't make you crumble.

[24:39] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, and and that's the gift, and the gift is no man is an island. Like I was very fortunate by the people around me, and it's so important to have that person around you, or in it, or be that person for someone. Just be that person for someone and just say, hey, you can do it.

[24:55] Oak - Episode #79: And it sounds cheesy as shit, but there's a reason why it's in all movies, you know. It's a reason why that's a cheesy moment because I say to people, I'm literally a product of other people having faith in me, and then me believing them. I wouldn't be here if if if Karen Chamberlain didn't say keep going. I wouldn't be here if Mr. Farler, Mr. Champagne, my high school teachers, and say, Hey, I know you get in trouble a lot, but you're actually a good kid. You just gotta find a thing that kind of focuses you.

[25:19] Rory O'Malley: Like I wouldn't be here if I didn't have people along the way who kept saying, like, no, I see good in you. I see that you are capable. You just have to stick with it.

[25:27] Oak - Episode #79: Amazing. Have you been able to share your journey with them or like have teachers or people come to Hamilton and just be so proud?

[25:37] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, yeah, I have. I went back to high school. Um when I was doing Hamilton, I think maybe like in the second year of it, I did go back and spoke at the high school, and and it was really good to kind of heal that wound.

[25:50] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, because I left on like part of my senior year. I got kicked out the last three weeks. They literally like, listen, if you don't come back, you don't have to take finals, but you just can't be here anymore. And I was like, deal. We all shook on it, and that was the end of my high school career.

[26:02] Rory O'Malley: So it was nice to come back and you know, see the principal who's still there and shake his hand and silently give them like a fuck you with my eyes, and like you know, and but like also, but then and then just talk to other students and just be like, hey, like I was a trouble, I was a quote unquote troubled kid.

[26:19] Oak - Episode #79: I was, you know, there there were certain teachers and people who probably gave up on me because they're like, Man, he's not he's not gonna go anywhere or he's not gonna figure it out.

[26:28] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[26:28] Oak - Episode #79: And it's gonna say, hey, you know, I'm I can say I'm literally living proof that you can, and if you just keep going, and even if I am that inspirational voice that I'm I say you need, I will be it.

[26:40] Oak - Episode #79: Um so it was it was it was great. And then also honoring my two teachers and and tell them, you know, they came to see the show and I grabbed the beer with them, which is always weird, you know. You know, it's like oh drinking beers, but and I tell them as much as I can and text them, like I I literally am a product of of your kindness and your faith.

[26:57] Rory O'Malley: Wow, we all have those teachers, and I think it's just so important to be able to relay that message back to them because whatever they get paid, it's not enough, you know.

[27:07] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah.

[27:09] Rory O'Malley: So you you had these, you said it was like small increments of your career little by little. In the meantime, you still had to feed yourself. How did you did you have to find side jobs? How did you get by in New York City while you were acting?

[27:26] Oak - Episode #79: Um, well, I had I was I would teach at New Jersey Performing Arts Center, NJ Pack. They would have a summer intensive program where I would um I started out assisting teaching for the acting program, and then I became a co-teacher, and then I had my own class in a musical theater program.

[27:41] Oak - Episode #79: So they had a musical theater program, and then I became the acting teacher for that, and that was the main way I would make money to kind of stretch it out. And then during the year, I worked for a promotional company called PMD Promotions, where I'd go around New York City and literally hang up posters in like stores.

[27:56] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[27:57] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, and I would do that no matter, and we got paid based on how many posters we put up.

[28:01] Rory O'Malley: Right, right.

[28:01] Oak - Episode #79: I did I pa I used to pass out things on the street. Did you ever have to do that?

[28:05] Rory O'Malley: Uh no, I did not do that.

[28:07] Oak - Episode #79: That's this was that's a bad gig.

[28:09] Rory O'Malley: I mean, this one was rough because it was like we were the postman, like the the the our boss would just be like literally be snowing. I'll never forget I'd be in like Wall Street during a blizzard, so it's ice cold and narrow, and I'm still going in a store, it's like, hey, can I put this poster up for like the new Lady Gaga album?

[28:26] Oak - Episode #79: And some person would be like, No, get the hell out of here. Why am I doing this free publicity for Lady Gaga? And like I fight with vendors, certain vendors every time I come in, we'd have an argument. But like no matter what, we'd just have to do it.

[28:34] Oak - Episode #79: And I'd be on my it was grunt work. I'd be on my 10 hours a day. And and like you would try to make your quota to make money, so I would stay out maybe six hours because like I just have to put five more posters to make a hundred bucks. So you just keep walking and going and like just trying to get it done.

[28:52] Rory O'Malley: Did you ever when you were doing that work, did it ever dishearten you? Or uh were you ever felt like obviously for me, I had so many of those kinds of jobs.

[29:02] Oak - Episode #79: And when I look back at them, I'm like so grateful for them because that's the reason I was able to get to where I am. But when you're in it, it can feel really daunting and overwhelming.

[29:11] Rory O'Malley: Did you ever get really down about it?

[29:13] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, I mean, just the days where my body hurt and I was tired and I didn't, and I just like, you know, when you need to go, I need to. There I cannot not go to work because I need to make the money to pay my bills. So those days were hard, but fortunately I was always working on something, and that's what I love about New York City is that there's work if you want to.

[29:35] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[29:35] Oak - Episode #79: You know, there's somebody creating something somewhere. There's no such thing as you can't work. It may not be a Broadway show, it may not be an off-Broadway show, you may get paid nothing, but there's work. So I always found myself working on something. A lot of stuff I didn't get paid for. But if you have good people, everyone understands, you know, everyone has their day jobs, and a lot of people were temping then. So you work around it and you put these productions on, and that's really what kind of kept me afloat. Go to work, do that, and squeeze in rehearsal between like 9 and 11 p.m. And you know, have like a weekend of shows, but that is really what kind of kept me afloat, and then I was happy that I was able to pay my bills from my job job.

[30:13] Rory O'Malley: What was your first acting job that you felt like, okay, I'm really getting somewhere, or it felt like you were able to sink your teeth into something that was gonna spark a career?

[30:27] Oak - Episode #79: Oh man, like it's hard because, you know, hindsight's 20/20. You know, like I only know that's like your third preview of Hamilton. Yeah, you know, it's like I only know that show was the thing that sparked my career because it sparked my career. But at the time, I just I didn't think much of it. Well, I think the first show that I really enjoyed sinking my teeth into was this play called Who Am I by this theater company called Cooch Cuchi Panoy, and it was like downtown in one of those random theaters.

[31:03] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[31:03] Oak - Episode #79: And this guy who wrote it, and I would go to Jersey City and literally rehearse my scene, and I played the God character in like this dude's living room. But I loved the scene because it was just free, and the actor I was working with was so much fun, and we kind of really just, it was the first time I ever just everything disappeared, and I was just in a moment with another person. Like I really didn't take in the audience at all throughout that run. It was we were just sitting down talking, fully invested as these people. And that can only happen because we're young and the director was young, so no one's nitpicking, you know, like no one's nitpicking or trying to place you here, or all that stuff. It's like we don't really know what we're doing, so we're just gonna be and have people watch.

[31:46] Rory O'Malley: And that was the real, that was one of the first times where talking to people afterwards, saying like how connected they were, engaged with how free we were.

[31:54] Oak - Episode #79: Right. Oh, okay, this can work. Like this really can work. Because I had a great time and people had a great time watching it, so this can really be something. Some of the most impressive pieces of theater, especially, are those plays that are in small theaters where nobody's trying to get rich, nobody's trying to make a commercial success. They're just trying to have a human connection with another actor and with an audience, and some beautiful theater can be created in that way.

[32:25] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, dude, I mean, do-it-yourself theater where everyone's a stage manager, everyone's a sound, everyone's an actor, like we're all doing all the things, but it truly, it's almost like sports. Back to sports, where we're all doing everything we can to put this thing up, you know, we're all coming in to paint the set for a little bit. Everyone, like we're all doing it to make this thing happen.

[32:47] Oak - Episode #79: You were in a very important musical that I loved very much, but it was important because I brought one of my cousins who's never, who has only seen musicals that I've been in, which are Book of Mormon and Hamilton, and I brought him to see Rocky the musical, and it's the one he loves the most of all those. He's a big jock who's never seen anything, but it was so visually astounding, and there were so many great aspects to it. Your training though, for that show, the entire cast, the boxing and the talk about being an athlete, it had to have been so intense. Can you talk a little about how you prepared for that show?

[33:29] Oak - Episode #79: Uh, it was very intense. Um, because I actually got, I still boxed because of that musical.

[33:29] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[33:36] Oak - Episode #79: Um, and I'll never forget because I basically got hired to be the understudy for Apollo Creed.

[33:36] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[33:41] Oak - Episode #79: Because Terrence went to Germany, learned it all, and he came back, and I really, really wanted it. But they more or less, they were like, you're just here, just God forbid if anything happens, because it was hard to find someone who can believably play a boxer and then like sing.

[33:41] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[33:58] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, it's tricky. Someone who could sing and dance, do all that stuff, but it's like that dude cannot fight his way out of a paper bag. So it was very difficult to find someone who can embody those two things. And so I was able to cover him, and I remember the audition, we had this, the audition was circuit training. So audition is general choreography, and then Stephen Hoggett comes out. He's like, okay, we're gonna do something different. And we had this six-minute circuit training where a minute you'd have different stations, so you have a minute of push-ups, a minute of sit-ups, a minute of burpees, a minute of lunges, and that's the audition. And then you'd have maybe like 30 seconds between each one.

And I thought I was going to die. I completely blew out my shoulder doing it because I never physically exerted myself that much, and I was like, I'm not getting this audition, I'm not getting this audition. So, like the audition's over, and I get a call. My agent gets a call and it says, you know, we really want Oak to do it and to understudy, but he needs to work out, he needs to get better.

[35:00] Oak - Episode #79: So what I did was right before that, I did a play called Loose at Lincoln at LCT 3 at Lincoln Center, where I played like the City Channel football player. But what I did during that process is I started working with a boxing coach at Trinity Boxing Gym downtown, and then I started actually doing that circuit training in my apartment by myself. So every day I would do that whole routine and just to kind of like get used to it while I was doing the boxing training. And that was my preparation. So the first day of rehearsal, Hoggett, he starts with the circuit training. We did audition. He's like, okay, cool. Let's see where everyone's at. And it was like a really proud moment because I went through the whole thing.

I was able to get through the whole thing, and I didn't hurt my shoulder. I still had breath at the end, and then I just kept doing it every day. Every day. I'd go down, I'd actually shadow box with Luis Salgado, because he was also a boxer, and we'd shadow box every day before the show.

[35:49] Oak - Episode #79: We'd get in the ring before the pre-show, just kind of shadow box warm-up, go downstairs, just constantly keeping the upkeep because I actually went on during previews. Terrence's voice was gone. Then they actually had to go out and buy suits. My costumes weren't finished.

[36:04] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[36:05] Oak - Episode #79: So they're like, you have to go. I never done that final fight scene, I had never done it with Andy before. If anybody saw the show, you know that fight scene. And I never, unreal. So the first time I did it with lights and all that stuff was the first time I went on. But I was only able to because I every day I would go through that fight scene. Every day I would just keep doing it, and just, you just, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

[36:27] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[36:28] Oak - Episode #79: That's, and that's, but you know, it's one thing. Like I've been an understudy and know you have to be ready. It's one thing to make sure you know the lines and the notes. It's another thing to know the fight choreography in a boxing ring that is literally going out into the audience.

[36:44] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[36:45] Oak - Episode #79: I mean, that's insane.

[36:47] Rory O'Malley: It was absolutely insane. Was there, I mean, I remember stories of Andy getting hurt. Was there a lot of injuries or was it pretty much?

[36:56] Oak - Episode #79: There were. Because there were a lot of injuries because it was kind of similar to what you went through with Hamilton. A lot of it was Andy. You know, you get to know Rocky. The first film is slow because you get to know him so much. But then we'd have these bursts where we'd come out and we'd be like all his doubles, or I'd come out and like I'd have like a shadow boxing scene. So we'd rest and rest and rest and then go, go, go, go, go. Rest and rest and rest and then go, go, go, go, go.

[37:20] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[37:20] Oak - Episode #79: So it was hard in that aspect to kind of keep it up and keep it going.

[37:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, you all had to keep going. It was an entire ensemble of people working their ass off the entire show. And like I said, my cousin Rob liked it way better than Hamilton and Book of Mormon.

[37:44] Oak - Episode #79: So you know what? You know what? I'm just, for the record, I loved that show. I think that show is amazing. I think that show should be running now. And I think it was tough because most of, I think 80% of the people who saw Rocky were not theater goers.

[38:00] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah.

[38:01] Oak - Episode #79: And they loved it, they loved it, and they loved it because it was in that final fight scene, and I wish that we catered more to them and not to like the Broadway Tony crowd, which makes sense. You know, we wanted to cater to that crowd for awards and stuff, but really I feel like if the show just diverted and said, you know what, we're just gonna cater to like the people who don't come, all of the Rocky fans, the people just want to have a good time. Like let's just market it that way. I think that could have been, it would have helped.

[38:30] Rory O'Malley: Well, you know what's funny is that a lot of times with these movies being made into musicals, sometimes I like, I know making a musical is, you know, makes more money and everything, but sometimes I'm like, you can musicalize a play and it's still like, I don't know that you necessarily need to make everything a musical. If you take a play, and especially with actors like of the caliber that you guys had in that play, everyone had to work so hard and be so good because like you said, having Rocky sing is really hard, and that's why Andy Carl is so good, because he's able to make every single moment so believable. But I wonder sometimes what the thought process is in like saying these characters have to be singing to put this on a Broadway stage. Do you know what I mean?

[39:19] Oak - Episode #79: I do. I do, I do. I yeah.

[39:21] Rory O'Malley: Like I feel like you could have a Broadway play be a movie, but I know it's probably just, you know, it's more desirable for people to create musicals because those are more, well, they just make more money.

[39:40] Oak - Episode #79: You know, but, and it's, I also like, I've recently realized, especially just with Hamilton, like the reason why musical works, it's because like you will always go see like a Beyoncé concert and you know the record, but it's different to see it live and then sing a lot. It's the replay value of it.

[39:55] Rory O'Malley: That's, yeah.

[39:56] Oak - Episode #79: Where I'm like, that's why I think that's why Hamilton works and all the great musicals, Book of Mormon, Wicked, is because like the songs you can keep singing and listen to, and you will always go back and see live performance of your favorite artists. If Beyoncé was in New York City every year, every year you'd buy a damn ticket, even though she can sing the same album every year, and every year you'll buy the tickets and sing the same album that you listen to all year when she's not singing it on stage.

[40:20] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[40:20] Oak - Episode #79: It's because the music moves you and it's different to see it live, you know. And I know sometimes people say, like, you know, is theater gonna die? And I'm, I don't say it's never gonna die because there's nothing that will ever replace just being in the presence of it as live emotion right in front of your face.

[40:25] Rory O'Malley: Right in front of your face in the room. What was the first time you heard the music of Hamilton?

[40:45] Oak - Episode #79: The first time I heard it was I was doing Rocky, and I got a call about this show called Hamilton from the guy who wrote In the Heights, and I did not know what In the Heights was. I never listened to In the Heights, had no idea. Uh-huh. But I said, okay, cool, send me the music. And they sent me some of the demos, and I was like, this is like music I love and grew up with that I've never ever heard ever possibly come close to being on a Broadway stage.

[41:02] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[41:02] Oak - Episode #79: And I was like, oh, there's rapping, and I actually went out for Washington because, you know, Chris Jackson was doing something, I think he was doing Holler for Hear Me.

[41:22] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[41:23] Oak - Episode #79: So I actually auditioned for Washington, and I went in and I was talking to Alex Lacamoire because I didn't know who Lynn was, and Alex was at the piano, so I just like, well, I guess that's Lynn. So I was like, straight up just like directing everything to Alex and talking to Alex, and then he was like, you know, look at Hercules Mulligan, and then they rapped it for me. He kind of gave me the cadence and what it is, and I was like, okay, and it just kind of sat in a way, and I was like, oh, okay, where we're at, I got this, I got this. Because I grew up like freestyling and stuff, so it's like, okay, great. Again, I'm like, what? This is insane. I'm auditioning for a Broadway musical and I'm rapping. You never would think that was possible.

[42:00] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[42:01] Oak - Episode #79: And I did it, and then my manager was like, yeah, you got it, and then they sent me the music, all the other demos, and I listened to it, and I got to wait for it, and that's all I listened to until rehearsal.

[42:16] Rory O'Malley: Really?

[42:17] Oak - Episode #79: Oh my god, yeah.

[42:19] Rory O'Malley: Huh.

[42:20] Oak - Episode #79: But what was the rehearsal for what?

[42:22] Rory O'Malley: For the workshop.

[42:23] Oak - Episode #79: The workshop. Wow. That's insane.

[42:25] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah. I listened to everything else to get through it, but I mean, wait for it for me hands down.

[42:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[42:32] Oak - Episode #79: And Leslie is of it, like his restraint and his calm, and he's just so coiled, and I think that's really what makes that song is when you can show us how much you can sing, but when you don't.

[42:46] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[42:46] Oak - Episode #79: We save that for a room where it happens when it's just, and just listening to it over and over again. And of course I can relate to it given my background, you know, my whole career is just keep moving forward and wait for it, man. Just keep doing it, just keep moving forward, one foot in front of the other. And when I heard that, I said, yeah, no matter what, I'm gonna find a way.

[43:04] Rory O'Malley: It's so funny, you know, like for me, I think everybody has a different song or something that clicked with them. And when I was watching the show, watching you guys at the public, from the first note, I was like, oh, this is brilliant, I love it. But when we got to satisfied, and I saw how the story was being told in a completely different way, and everything was being, you know, the timeline was being messed with, and this song was a part of that.

[43:37] Oak - Episode #79: I was like, oh, this is changing the medium that I love. This is changing musical theater, and every song is gonna be a new way that they're opening up the world of storytelling on a stage. And it was thrilling.

[43:57] Rory O'Malley: Did you listen to any of the music before you saw it at the public?

[44:01] Oak - Episode #79: No, no, great, that's so good. No, yeah, I didn't know anything. I always tell this story. I didn't know, like, Leslie and I went to college together, you know, so I got my tickets through Leslie, and we were on the train together, and he was cutting it close, like half an hour, and I was like, Gerald was like, well, maybe he's not until like, you know, halfway through. I was like, that's true. I was like, well, I know he shoots him in the end, so maybe he just comes out at the end. I don't know. I do know he's, I was like, I was like, he probably doesn't have to be there at half hour, you know, like not. And of course, he's the first one to sing that. I was laughing from the very first note of Hamilton because I was dying laughing that he has the first note, but I didn't know anything.

[44:03] Oak - Episode #79: I didn't know anything, and I always tried to get people to see the show without listening to the music before because people are so scared that, you know, it was such a coveted ticket that they weren't gonna have the best experience while watching it. And I was like, you're gonna, it's gonna be around forever. You can see it again after listening to the music, but you can never see it for the first time without knowing the music if you do that.

[45:16] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, it's a whole nother. I tell people now to this day, I say if you can't avoid it, avoid it and just see it as is and really go on the ride. Really experience it. Talking about being on the ride, you know, you can have a hit show, you can be in a long-running show, but there is nothing that compares to the way that Hamilton unfolded on Broadway. What did it feel like to be in that hurricane?

[45:49] Oak - Episode #79: And specifically, how did your relationship to social media change? Because I feel like social media was such a strong part of Hamilton. How do you, what are your thoughts on social media after the Hamilton experience?

[46:06] Oak - Episode #79: Um, well, like the funny thing about it was I did not have a social media anything until right before Hamilton. And I just happened to get it because I was doing a play called The Royale at the Old Globe in San Diego. And that's when I made my social media account. Because previously, I did the first national tour of American Idiot, and everyone had a social media account. And everyone, and like, it's everyone was like tagging, and this is still when it was early on.

[46:30] Oak - Episode #79: Right. And I was like, I don't really get it. I don't really need people all up in my business like that. But I made a conscious decision when I was in San Diego. I was like, you know what? Let me just get it because it's not gonna hurt. And that's another thing I'll say to any young actor or whatever, what have you? It's like if it doesn't hurt, why not? If it's gonna help you, you're gonna learn, you're gonna grow from all those experiences. Like, why not? And that's what I said. Say yes, and as much as you can, basically.

[46:53] Oak - Episode #79: Right. So I said, you know what? Let me say yes and see what it is. So I made like a whole thing, and I made my account and no one cared. And then like Hamilton happened, and yeah, it was just kind of, it was night and day. It was crazy to just see that like there are these many people who are engaging and sending love. And it's also an amazing way to get a direct line of people to say, hey, you once inspired me so much.

[47:19] Oak - Episode #79: Hey, like there's right now on my Instagram feed, there's this young boy whose mother reached out to me and he was going through, I think he had some type of cancer in his intestines or something like that. And he's going through all these surgeries and she would send me pictures and he listens to the music and I would, and I sent back. I was like, that's great. And I think like last month she just sent me an update like he just wanted, he wanted you to see that he's like, he got the fuck back up again. He's back on his feet and he's doing it.

[47:46] Oak - Episode #79: Um, and it's, uh, Marissa Hayden is her name and, um, and it's like things like that, like without social media, she wouldn't, and the boy's name is Malik, she wouldn't have that direct line to me and I wouldn't have the direct line and be like, oh, I am directly helping people, yeah, in the little way that I can. Firefighters do it their way, you know, everyone does it that way, and I'm honored that we're in a profession where I can actually help people get through things.

[48:13] Oak - Episode #79: Right. You know on a visceral level and not everyone has that gift in their profession, in their career, and social media kind of helps it immediately. People can tell you all the things that they're going through in an intimate way that they know that you'll see it. Um, and that's the greatest thing that I take away from it is that you can really touch people's lives.

[48:34] Rory O'Malley: Well, it's interesting that you talked about being in college and not really knowing why actors need to access their vulnerable side. You know, you are super, to me, you're super vulnerable. You're open, you're very honest and forthcoming about where you're at, and clearly you've changed a lot. And do you think that being an actor is the reason that you've changed? Or is it the art that's made you a different person, or do you think it's just a necessity of what you do?

[49:14] Oak - Episode #79: Uh, it's 100% me being an actor and a necessity. I try and say I think every human being at some point should study acting, specifically Meisner training. I'm biased, I love Meisner training, it's my background. Um, but I think you should because when I would teach, I'd say you are your instrument. A violinist, before they play, they tune it, and if the string is off, they make aware of it. Same thing with the pianists, any other profession, whether you're a construction worker, all your tools, whatever you use, you have, you know them intimately and you know how they work.

[49:44] Oak - Episode #79: We are our tool. So it'll only serve you to access yourself if you just know what your buttons are, know what triggers you, what brings you joy, what brings you sadness, what brings you anger, what you long for, what you don't, what you're afraid. The more vulnerable and honest you are with yourself, the better access you have to yourself. And I think that for sure is made me grow as a human because there's no way I could portray a character that's devastated because its dog died. I'm not crazy about dogs, but I would be devastated if like something happened to my sister.

[50:17] Oak - Episode #79: So it's like I know what has meaning for me, so I can make that one-to-one transfer. You know, I know what I really, really love. I may not be crazy about roller coasters, but I love comic books. So since I know what brings me joy, I can access that character. I can say, oh, it's like if someone gave me like a first edition of Incredible Hulk, the first time Hulk meets Wolverine. That, I'm like, that would blow my mind. Great. I know what will blow my mind. So now when I'm working, I know how to access that in myself.

[50:45] Oak - Episode #79: So like my vulnerability is directly related to studying acting. And when you study acting, essentially, if you're studying at the right place, you're just really studying yourself.

[50:56] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. I don't know if you know this, and I'm gonna, I'm bringing it up because I didn't tell you at the beginning because I wasn't sure if you knew yet or not, but, um, because I talked a lot about this during Hamilton and told you and you knew that I was in this process. Gerald and I just adopted a baby boy.

[51:15] Oak - Episode #79: Yes, I do know.

[51:16] Rory O'Malley: And I am so, I got to go back to Hamilton. Uh, I was in New York for like 48 hours, and I had this like emotional response to being in that building and to in the Richard Rodgers because so much of why I was there, and you know, I had, and my husband was back in Los Angeles, and we were a long distance, was because of this, because we wanted to get here, and I so remember you and I talking about that, and you probably having to listen to me complain about being away from my husband, and we were good, we were therapists for each other, I think for a while.

[51:52] Oak - Episode #79: We really were.

[51:54] Rory O'Malley: And um, I, it's just been such a, it's such a cool thing to get to share in the happiness of getting through that with different folks from my Hamilton family of you guys and the folks on tour because you all knew how long we'd been on that journey. So thanks for helping us get there because now we got a really cute little baby boy, Jimmy.

[52:18] Oak - Episode #79: I'm so happy. I was so excited when I saw you in the street, I was so, I was so excited that you were home.

[52:19] Rory O'Malley: I was so excited to go home and still do the show.

[52:25] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, and you know, and it gave you time to be home with your husband and also gave you a chance to put some coin in that bank account to prepare for your baby.

[52:33] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it was like blessings on blessings on blessings, but um, yeah, it was, it was, I mean, you know, it was just truly, it was a crazy special thing, and especially seeing where everybody's at, what Diggs is doing, what Leslie's doing and Cephus and Pips and Renee and just seeing where everyone has gone and what they're doing with their lives and how it is and just realizing that came directly from what everyone brought into it.

[53:02] Oak - Episode #79: What you brought into it allowed you to do it in LA so you can prepare for your baby. You know what I mean? Like if you didn't do that, if you didn't do the kick-ass job you did in New York, they would just go with someone else in LA. You know, like every opportunity we have, it's kind of like Hamilton is like whatever you put into it, the show was so good, like all good art, it will kick back, it will kick it back to you if you show up and you do the work.

[53:25] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[53:25] Oak - Episode #79: Um, and if you don't, then it'll cheer you up and spit you out.

[53:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It really, it's about doing the work and it's also about really finding a way to support each other because I think that, you know, what I realize is that, you know, through my Book of Mormon experience, the only people who will understand exactly what that was are the other actors who were in that. And I can say that I have an idea of what you guys went through, but you guys are gonna take care of each other for the rest of your lives because no one can really understand what that moment in time was and that it all kind of rocketed you into the stratosphere at the same time and you kind of, you have to hold on to each other and I think you've all done that such a good job of staying close and taking care of each other and being a support system.

[54:17] Oak - Episode #79: I mean, but also we were able to do that, all jokes aside, like just from the precedent that actually you guys set in the Book of Mormon. And you know, looking at what happened to you. What's like where Brian is at, and Andrew and Josh, all of you guys. And really, like, whenever when we're going through that, like you, your Book of Mormon was a reference point for us to be like, hey, you know, we can do this. We can do it well. We can still be grounded and kind and loving to each other because the other greatest hit, like, but yeah, you were the last really big hit on Broadway, like a massive hit on Broadway.

[54:51] Oak - Episode #79: And you were all able to stay like awesome, beautiful, great people who kept in touch, and it was like, oh yeah, this is possible. It doesn't have to poison, you know, successfully paint you or change you or jade you or any of those things.

[55:02] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[55:02] Oak - Episode #79: Um, so we, I'm really grateful to you and your cast for, you know, blazing the way.

[55:08] Rory O'Malley: Well, that is very sweet. And you know, I think that it's really, you, I think we were all old enough and mature enough and have been around long enough to understand how unique of an opportunity it was to be presented the gift of the artistic experience that we were having.

[55:25] Oak - Episode #79: And um, you know, it's not something that you should just kind of, you have to be present for it and take care of each other.

[55:35] Rory O'Malley: And I'm happy to say that I'm on many text chains with the Book of Mormon casts and making inside jokes still eight years later, and I know you guys are as well. So that just makes me very, very happy.

[55:49] Oak - Episode #79: Yeah, and it's like one thing I will say to like any young actor or whoever's listening, like that is the key. That is, that is the key is to just be kind and love on the people who you work with. Um, because that will get you through everything and anything. Because that's it. When those lights go up, your director's not on stage with you, your choreographer isn't on stage with you. They're like, it's just you and then whoever the fuck is across from you, and that's it.

[56:18] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[56:19] Oak - Episode #79: You know, and that's all you have. And if you go up, you're praying that this person can find a roundabout way to bring you back, or can fill it, or can some, like, you know, it's just a lot of trust because we will always mess up. But what makes professionals professionals is like the audience will never know when we mess up, and that's the thing. You'll know you can't avoid it. Our job is to make sure you never know, and that can only happen if everyone is ready to pick up any ball that's dropped.

[56:49] Rory O'Malley: Um, before we go, you are Oak, your name is Oak, but you have a beautiful Nigerian name that I can't say properly. Would you please say it properly for me?

[57:00] Oak - Episode #79: Even after I say it, you have to say it.

[57:02] Rory O'Malley: Absolutely.

[57:03] Oak - Episode #79: Awkidiet onaduan.

[57:08] Rory O'Malley: A kid.

[57:14] Oak - Episode #79: That's it.

[57:14] Rory O'Malley: All right, I'll just keep listening to you, having just said it on recording it, and I'll practice it.

[57:24] Oak - Episode #79: Got it.

[57:25] Rory O'Malley: Um, I really truly appreciate who you are, and thank you so much for sharing your journey and where you came from, and you're a bright light, and you really do mean a lot to me. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

[57:42] Oak - Episode #79: Oh, thank you so much for texting me and reaching out. It's so good to hear your voice, and I love you, Darren.

[57:47] Oak - Episode #79: Right, I really do. Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.