This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 30 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:04] Rory O'Malley: If you like the podcast, remember to subscribe, rate, and review, or just tell your friends.

[0:10] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:16] Rory O'Malley: Hey there, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here. Thanks for listening to Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:21] Rory O'Malley: My guest this week is Seth Rudetsky of Sirius Xm's Broadway channel. I can't even come up with a complete list of all the things that Seth Rudetsky is involved in with the Broadway community, but he has an amazing story.

[0:38] Rory O'Malley: He went from being in the pit of a Broadway show playing the piano to working on the Rosie O'Donnell Show to hosting events for Broadway Cares to being one of the main faces of Sirius XM Broadway channel.

[0:53] Rory O'Malley: And you know, if you are a part of the Broadway community, you know Seth Rudetsky. He is, as he says it, a fan and also a performer and someone who has access to everyone in the industry.

[1:07] Rory O'Malley: He's talked to everyone, so it was a really great conversation. I've always been so curious to know how he forged this path, how he made this career for himself that is unlike anyone else.

[1:19] Rory O'Malley: And I got a lot of insight into that. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with him. We also spoke with his husband, James.

[1:24] Rory O'Malley: Seth and James, a year ago after the tragedy in Orlando, put together a group of Broadway performers, and I was lucky enough to get to participate to sing "What the World Needs Now is Love, Sweet Love," the Burt Bacharach beautiful song.

[1:43] Rory O'Malley: It was to record it to raise awareness and to raise money for the victims in Orlando. And since then, they've just gone on to do concerts and appearances, and they've always done such great things for very good causes.

[2:00] Rory O'Malley: And they will be performing with a concert this Saturday in San Francisco at the Curran Theater at seven o'clock. And if you are here in San Francisco, you definitely should check it out.

[2:11] Rory O'Malley: I will be there at the beginning of the show and then run over to Hamilton the same night. It's gonna be really, really amazing. Huge performers, Alan Cumming, Faith Prince.

[2:23] Rory O'Malley: So many wonderful people are gonna be at this show, and you definitely should check it out. Jane Lynch, it's gonna be a great night for a great cause.

[2:33] Rory O'Malley: I am so glad that I was able to find a time that Seth Rudetsky could sit down and speak with me. This is the longest conversation I've ever gotten to have with him because he's doing so many things.

[2:44] Rory O'Malley: He's a hard man to track down. But please enjoy my conversation with James Wesley and Seth Rudetsky.

[2:54] Rory O'Malley: Hi guys, hi Seth, hi James.

[2:57] Seth Rudetsky: Hi, Rory.

[2:59] Rory O'Malley: Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I am so excited for this weekend. You have a big concert coming up in San Francisco.

[3:06] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, and you have a five-minute appearance.

[3:09] Rory O'Malley: I do. I'm starting the whole thing off.

[3:10] Seth Rudetsky: That's right.

[3:12] Seth Rudetsky: Yes, we're gonna be at the Curran Theater, which by the way, I just saw, I was reading research, is where Peter Pan did its out-of-town tryout with Mary Martin.

[3:20] Rory O'Malley: Wow, I had no idea.

[3:21] Seth Rudetsky: Just saying a little side note.

[3:23] Seth Rudetsky: No, there's a lot of history in theater in San Francisco, and the crowds have been so enthusiastic and amazing, and well, they kind of are everywhere for Hamilton.

[3:33] Seth Rudetsky: It's like I've yet to see like a crowd boo.

[3:36] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[3:37] Seth Rudetsky: We'll find that crowd somewhere. Although they apparently did that for Angela Lansbury when she did Sweeney Todd.

[3:43] Seth Rudetsky: She said that when she went to San Francisco, they all wanted like baubles and beads of Maine. She was all frumpy, and they were like, "We don't like this show."

[3:51] Rory O'Malley: What? Because it was the out of town before it went to Broadway?

[3:54] Seth Rudetsky: No, it was the national tour. And she was like, "I can't wait to San Francisco." And they were all like, "Where are your gowns?"

[3:59] Rory O'Malley: Even after they already knew the show and what it was?

[4:01] Seth Rudetsky: I guess they still thought, like, "Wow, they're like, truly gonna get dressed up." And it turns out she didn't.

[4:04] Rory O'Malley: They're like, "Where's Bea Arthur?"

[4:07] Seth Rudetsky: That was ridiculous.

[4:08] Seth Rudetsky: That was Len Cariou. Same track, same vocal range.

[4:11] Rory O'Malley: Anywho.

[4:13] Seth Rudetsky: Anywho, so you guys have done an amazing thing. You've put together a song a year ago after the tragedy in Orlando.

[4:23] Seth Rudetsky: And it's really turned into something much, much bigger. Obviously, if you guys are involved, it becomes a big production with the Broadway community and has raised a lot of money and done some amazing things.

[4:34] Rory O'Malley: Can you just tell me how this all started?

[4:38] James Wesley: Um, I'll just say, I'll begin one thing. Basically, we were very frustrated. This happened two years ago with foster care, with the mayor had appointed this horrific woman to child services who was cutting this major foster care program that helped teens get adopted.

[4:53] James Wesley: So James said we have to put on a big benefit to try to save this organization because most kids don't get adopted past age eight.

[4:59] James Wesley: And we had hardly any time because our goal initially was the beginning of May, and the fiscal year for New York City is June 30th, and we wanted to get the funding restored, we wanted to get attention and all that stuff, and they really needed the money, or they were gonna go under.

[5:14] James Wesley: So we called our big, like fancy friends that produced like major events, which have remained nameless, but they were like, "You'll never get it done in two months." And we were like, "Watch us."

[5:21] James Wesley: So we did this big Robbie band, and we got Tina Fey and Jane Krakowski, and it became this big amazing thing. And that's kind of when we first really worked together very closely.

[5:29] Seth Rudetsky: Right. And we knew that we could put something together really big, really fast. It gave us that confidence.

[5:35] James Wesley: Because I mean, Seth had obviously done before I met him, a lot of benefits on Broadway, but they weren't done in four weeks.

[5:42] Seth Rudetsky: No dear.

[5:43] James Wesley: So we kind of did that, and then when Orlando happened, it was the Tony Awards and Jennifer Samard from Disaster was nominated from the show that I wrote, and James co-produced, and instead of being really happy that day, it was very depressing because of Orlando.

[5:55] Seth Rudetsky: So the next morning, I went for a bike ride. I normally watch the news kind of obsessively, and I am a morning person, and so while Seth was still asleep, my normal routine would have been to watch the news, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, and so I went for a bike ride.

[6:12] James Wesley: And coincidentally, I'd already been listening on Spotify to Deion Warwick's version of "What the World Needs Now is Love."

[6:18] James Wesley: And so I just started biking from the Upper West Side down the Hudson River and just put it on a continuous loop.

[6:26] James Wesley: And as I was riding down, I thought of "We Are the World" and doing it one solo line at a time, and I could picture us doing it, and I thought, well, Seth and I can get this together, but we'd need to do it soon.

[6:40] James Wesley: It couldn't be like two months from now the song comes out. The moment is now, and because sadly, people do forget about tragedies, even as big as the one at Pulse.

[6:50] James Wesley: And in fact, look at all the tragedies that have happened in the last year. And so because we had just done the Disaster album, I knew who to get a hold of to get the song rights, and if we could get them.

[6:58] James Wesley: And so I'd gotten in touch with her, and I did all the stuff, and then I woke up Seth and said, "Okay, we need to do this, and we need to do it Wednesday. We need to do it between shows so that people can come and get the maximum number of Broadway people."

[7:14] Seth Rudetsky: And we did.

[7:16] James Wesley: We started texting.

[7:17] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah. I think I first texted Idina Menzel because I knew I had to have some names to make other people comfortable.

[7:22] Seth Rudetsky: So I got Idina, I got Billy Porter, like maybe four people, and we got Robbie Records who did our Disaster cast album to sign on.

[7:29] James Wesley: And they got us a studio for free.

[7:30] Seth Rudetsky: And you were there, right?

[7:32] James Wesley: Yeah, yeah. I remember you. I remember at the matinee, Lynn turned to me and he was like, "Hey, are you going to Seth's thing?" I was like, "Yeah, let's do it."

[7:42] Seth Rudetsky: I love it. Seth's thing.

[7:45] James Wesley: So anyway, we did that, and then the election happened, and we were both in London doing Disaster yet again, and we were devastated, and we thought, you know, what we always do, we gotta put on a concert, mainly for our mental health because we knew we were gonna be overwhelmed, but also to just we knew so many groups were gonna be screwed by this new government, and we said we've got to help them.

[8:02] Seth Rudetsky: And as we were thinking about doing it, Jesse Mueller texted me and she said, "What about doing a concert? We sing all patriotic songs," and she was listening to them, and she said, "If anyone can do it, you guys can," and I kind of gave us the courage to do it.

[8:13] James Wesley: And then we kept hearing for weeks there were these other concerts happening.

[8:16] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, there were these rumors. I don't know. Did you hear them that there were these?

[8:17] James Wesley: Yeah, there was this fake meme.

[8:22] Seth Rudetsky: Did you see them? It's like huge, right? And we're like, well, we can't compete with that.

[8:24] James Wesley: Yeah, and we're like, Broadway cannot compete. I'm sorry. You know, even Hamilton cannot compete with Jay-Z.

[8:30] Seth Rudetsky: And you know what I mean? And then we kind of heard it wasn't happening, and then it was the end of December, and I said, "Oh my god, the inauguration is a couple weeks away."

[8:37] James Wesley: I said, "James, we can't like save the world, we have to stop like pushing it." And James called me December 30th. I was in Florida with Matt Morrison doing a show, and he said, "I really thought about it. We have to do it."

[8:45] Seth Rudetsky: I was like, "All right," and then we just got it done in a couple weeks.

[8:48] James Wesley: Yeah. And James said it has to be every month. And he said, "I really want to go across the country because everyone in the country needs to be cheered up," and that's what we started doing.

[8:56] Seth Rudetsky: And a big component of it is Facebook Live.

[9:00] James Wesley: So Facebook Live is a good idea. For all of your listeners, that's right. Who aren't in San Francisco, who want to come, I mean who can't come but would like to, they can watch it on Facebook.

[9:10] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah.

[9:11] James Wesley: And we got like that's amazing. We got a ton of views for the last concert. It's really great.

[9:15] Seth Rudetsky: I got a letter from someone in North Dakota. Like, I mean, people are really watching it, which I think is so wonderful.

[9:20] James Wesley: I'm not really even cool enough to watch it on Facebook Live. I'm like, "Wait, what is that?" Like, literally, the fact that you wanted to Skype me, I'm like, "I don't even know if I have Skype."

[9:27] Seth Rudetsky: So like it's way beyond me Facebook Live, but I know that other people enjoy it, FYI.

[9:31] James Wesley: Right.

[9:31] Seth Rudetsky: It's a big deal, and it's giving people access to things that they didn't have access to before.

[9:36] Rory O'Malley: I think that Hamilton, one of the reasons that it's had this kind of success and this reach is because Lin-Manuel Miranda is so good at social media and so good at the cutting edge of like people.

[9:48] Seth Rudetsky: I would walk backstage at Hamilton or down into the green room area, and people would be like, "Hey, you were so funny on Snapchat."

[9:57] Rory O'Malley: I don't have a Snapchat, but you're just constantly on television. You're constantly live.

[10:02] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, that's why I'm at Hamilton slips because we want to skip.

[10:06] Seth Rudetsky: While it's being a Facebook Live, I think we were the first Broadway show, Disaster, to Facebook Live an actual live performance.

[10:11] James Wesley: We got Jennifer Samard's nun song on Facebook.

[10:14] Seth Rudetsky: I don't even know how they got the rights, but they did it during the performance.

[10:17] James Wesley: Some on Facebook Live and it was totally like clear through the unit.

[10:20] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, it was cleared, yeah. That's a really, yeah, I wish they did it.

[10:23] James Wesley: I don't know why they haven't done it since.

[10:25] Seth Rudetsky: They did that for Cynthia Erivo's final performance.

[10:28] James Wesley: Was Facebook Live?

[10:29] Seth Rudetsky: Of "I'm Here," yeah.

[10:30] James Wesley: Yeah, if I knew what Facebook Live was, I'd be super excited.

[10:32] Seth Rudetsky: Don't know what it is.

[10:33] James Wesley: Anywho.

[10:34] Seth Rudetsky: So not true. I sort of know, but I've never seen it.

[10:36] Seth Rudetsky: But anyway, so we're gonna be at the Curran on Saturday. Please, within like three months, Seth is gonna have a Facebook Live show that is like number one on Facebook and Broadway.

[10:45] James Wesley: How dare you break?

[10:46] Seth Rudetsky: All right. So promote the show. It's Saturday at the Curran Theater, and it's you and it's Alan Cumming and it's Jane Lynch and Faith Prince and Kevin Chamberlain and Hal Sparks and Sharon Gless, which is Mother's Son from Queer Spoke.

[10:57] James Wesley: Hey.

[10:58] Seth Rudetsky: Ugh. And you're taking off Hamilton then, are you understanding, correct? Because you're sick.

[11:03] Rory O'Malley: Oh, yeah, sure.

[11:04] Seth Rudetsky: No, I'm literally starting the show at seven and then running to the theater to be in the show at eight.

[11:10] James Wesley: Can I just give you a little fun side story to relate to you? I did the Funny Girl concert for the Actors Fund. I did one every year.

[11:17] James Wesley: And we were on a Monday as usual. And Sutton, we had a different Fanny Brice for every song.

[11:23] James Wesley: And Sutton Foster was doing "I'm the Greatest Star." She just won the Tony Award, it was like perfect timing.

[11:27] James Wesley: And suddenly that Monday, ATT bought out the house to see Thoroughly Modern Millie.

[11:31] Seth Rudetsky: So she suddenly had a show.

[11:32] James Wesley: And it couldn't be like they bought up the house.

[11:34] James Wesley: And at this performance, you know the role of Joyce DeWitt?

[11:37] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, yeah.

[11:37] James Wesley: So I said, we begin at 7:30. I said, "We'll probably be maybe 10 minutes late, and you're within the first 10 minutes."

[11:44] James Wesley: So she literally came to the theater in full Thoroughly Modern Millie wig.

[11:49] Seth Rudetsky: She was fully wigged.

[11:50] James Wesley: She did "I'm the Greatest Star," and her fun exit as Fanny Brice was literally up the aisle so she could run out of the Broadway theater and then get to her theater at the Marriott.

[11:58] Seth Rudetsky: That's right back at you.

[12:00] James Wesley: That's amazing.

[12:01] Seth Rudetsky: So I will be showing up on Saturday in a Thoroughly Modern Millie wig.

[12:05] James Wesley: Oh yeah, well, King George, they're both FOPs, it's perfect.

[12:08] Seth Rudetsky: That's true. I do wear a wig.

[12:12] Seth Rudetsky: No, it's gonna be a great night. I'm so, so impressed and in awe of what you guys have done this year.

[12:20] Seth Rudetsky: What you've always done, but it really takes a lot of leadership and work to do something like this, and people don't realize how much work it does.

[12:27] Rory O'Malley: Because I've done something on other scales with Broadway and Collie stuff. What that gave me was the understanding of how much work it takes to pull anything off.

[12:37] Seth Rudetsky: To do what you guys have done this year is astounding.

[12:41] Seth Rudetsky: And I'm so grateful that you have continued to be leaders in the Broadway community for doing what's right, using the power of the stage to make change.

[12:54] Seth Rudetsky: And you know, it's going to just keep getting bigger and bigger.

[12:58] Rory O'Malley: And I think that you guys have come in at the right moment with the right feeling and the right song, and everything about it makes me so thrilled.

[13:09] Rory O'Malley: So thank you so much. I'm excited for Saturday. It's gonna be fun.

[13:12] Seth Rudetsky: See you on Saturday.

[13:13] Rory O'Malley: See you on Saturday.

[13:14] James Wesley: Yes.

[13:15] James Wesley: All right, James is piecing out. James, go take care of our child.

[13:17] James Wesley: And also go let the dog.

[13:18] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah.

[13:19] James Wesley: James has to get back to work.

[13:20] Seth Rudetsky: Oh, yeah, it's non-stop.

[13:21] James Wesley: You guys have a lot. But I want to keep talking to you about your career and who you are, because I think that when I started this podcast, which is a podcast about, it's called Living the Dream, it's about living your dream day to day.

[13:39] Rory O'Malley: No apostrophe, no apostrophe because I'm from Ohio and that's just way, way too hip.

[13:45] Seth Rudetsky: Got it.

[13:46] Rory O'Malley: So yeah, it's living the dream. And it's been great to talk to a bunch of different people who had their start, you know, going to Carnegie Mellon for musical theater and doing the same hustle as being actors.

[13:59] Rory O'Malley: What you've done though is so unique to anyone.

[14:03] Rory O'Malley: I read an article where you said that you 100% have to create your own career.

[14:08] Seth Rudetsky: You have to, even if you win a Tony Award, you have to create the next step of what your career is and not just wait for someone to give you the right role or the next right step.

[14:18] Rory O'Malley: So you went from being in the Broadway, you went you got you majored in piano at Oberlin.

[14:26] Seth Rudetsky: Wow, yes.

[14:26] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[14:27] Seth Rudetsky: And you were in a pit of a Broadway show and playing in the pit as a musician, and now you are in charge of Broadway.

[14:38] Rory O'Malley: So but you know, there the steps to get there, I think a lot of times people on the outside will think, wow, somebody must have saw something in Seth and started giving him this, that, and the other thing book deals, having him be on Sirius Xm, giving him the chance to be up in front of an audience, you know, from being in the pit.

[15:00] Seth Rudetsky: Yes, that's true, but you are the one who had to create what your career even is. It doesn't exist. You're the one who made it.

[15:07] Rory O'Malley: So I think you're such an interesting person to talk to because I want to know how you did it. I want to know the walls that you hit to get there and the ways that you were able to kind of overcome that and keep going because I'm sure that there were tons of times where it was like this is it's too much to create your own path.

[15:31] Seth Rudetsky: Um so let's start from the beginning a little bit. You were in Oberlin College being a piano player, but you always loved Broadway, and how did you wind up in New York?

[15:43] Seth Rudetsky: Were you you grew up in?

[15:44] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, from Long Island, and um, you know, I always had Broadway was always my first love, but I was I was a talented classical pianist.

[15:54] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[15:55] Seth Rudetsky: I probably wanted to major in theater, but I kind of um I didn't even it wasn't, you know, it was in the 80s. It wasn't necessarily that normal to major in musical theater.

[16:03] Seth Rudetsky: It just wasn't really as it is now, or with like Michigan and like it was kind of just starting, I feel so anyway.

[16:10] Seth Rudetsky: I kind of got into college and I got into Oberlin early when I played my classical piano edition. I was like, oh my god, I guess I have to go.

[16:16] Seth Rudetsky: Like I was so happy I got in. I was I was like, I guess I have to go to the greatest music school in the country, I guess.

[16:22] Seth Rudetsky: But I was I knew I wasn't gonna be a concert pianist, but I just was I thought it was so cool that I got in, and then when I visited, like it was so liberal, and I just thought it was amazing.

[16:30] Seth Rudetsky: So um I went, but as typical in my life, like I've always had multitude of interests, and I feel like people have tried to kind of pigeonhole me.

[16:38] Seth Rudetsky: And um, it's I first of all, that's not the real world. Like, who only has one interest anyway?

[16:43] Seth Rudetsky: So it's just bizarre to me that people do get pigeonholed because nobody has just one interest.

[16:48] Seth Rudetsky: So anyway, I was a classical piano major, but of course I was like doing musicals on the side, and in terms of let's say forming my own career, I really started that.

[16:57] Seth Rudetsky: Hold on, James. Can you give poor our little sweet dog once a treat treat?

[17:00] Seth Rudetsky: Can you give her something? I really love dogs on the podcast.

[17:03] James Wesley: Oh yeah.

[17:04] Seth Rudetsky: By the way, I'm obsessed with one of my biggest causes is animals, yeah.

[17:08] Seth Rudetsky: Um rescues. Uh anyway, no, just give her, just give her the thing that's in the closet.

[17:13] Seth Rudetsky: Um, in terms of forming my own career, it really started at Oberlin, like because I'd say sophomore year, it's like the way that the Dream Ghost concert.

[17:21] Seth Rudetsky: I was like, I've always wanted to play Rhapsody and Blue, and you have winter projects in Oberlin.

[17:24] Seth Rudetsky: So I was like, I'll play Rhapsody and Blue. I'll literally get a Symphony Orchestra together.

[17:27] Seth Rudetsky: Everyone here is an amazing classical musician. I put a little sign-up sheet on the board, and my went to term project was doing Rhapsody and Blue, and I got this big crazy orchestra together and I played it.

[17:36] Seth Rudetsky: And um, it was amazing. So it was the kind of when I really began to realize, like, oh my god, I could just kind of like do whatever I want if I just ask people.

[17:44] Seth Rudetsky: Everyone wants to have fun. So I did that there, and I my friend, I love Broadway music, so I applied to be the Broadway radio host, and I started doing that for funsies.

[17:53] Seth Rudetsky: Anyway, so and then I basically, you know, I set a classic music, but I did a lot of musical theater, and then one of my friends at Oberlin worked at SummerSock, and he said, Oh, do you want to be my musical assistant, director assistant?

[18:03] Seth Rudetsky: So that's my first professional job music directing, and it was it was so cool to actually do a show and know there was an audience coming that was like actually paying.

[18:10] Seth Rudetsky: I remember going, I can't believe everyone in this audience is paying money.

[18:12] Seth Rudetsky: Like it was so exciting. And it was SummerStock, which is amazing training because it was it was uh one week stop as it's called.

[18:18] Seth Rudetsky: So as you do one show during the day, you're doing another one at night.

[18:21] Seth Rudetsky: And it was 12 weeks, so it was like promises, promises, applause, grease.

[18:24] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, every single week. So whatever show I didn't know, I learned it was and also you learn, I really learned how to be a good music director there because you have basically one rehearsal like for each song, so you have to dilute exactly how you're gonna teach this because you don't have three hours.

[18:39] Seth Rudetsky: So it's like, what is the clearest way to get this across?

[18:41] Seth Rudetsky: And I think that's always been a big skill of mine is how to teach music very clearly.

[18:45] Seth Rudetsky: I've always really enjoyed it, and I definitely honed it in Summerstock.

[18:49] Seth Rudetsky: And um, I graduated, and you know, I guess if you want an overview of what you should do is basically do as many things as you can because every single person you meet will lead to something.

[18:57] Seth Rudetsky: So you know, when I got to New York, I already knew people from SummerStock, and I began playing their auditions, and you know, it uh eventually getting to Broadway's.

[19:06] Seth Rudetsky: I was interning at this theater, and I met this woman, Maria Bossa, who I thought was really funny, and she said, Oh, you should do a cabaret with me.

[19:14] Seth Rudetsky: And as we were writing it together, I began to kind of improv lines, and suddenly we both had roles.

[19:19] Seth Rudetsky: So we were both doing basically this comedy show together.

[19:23] Seth Rudetsky: And uh one week I couldn't make it, and then this other pianist did it for me, and then he got a Broadway show, and I said, Can it be your sub?

[19:28] Seth Rudetsky: And that's how I kind of made it to Broadway.

[19:30] Seth Rudetsky: It's just all like through knowing people.

[19:31] Rory O'Malley: I mean that's that's really how it's not not like being an actor where you go and you audition you're good.

[19:37] Seth Rudetsky: When you're a musician especially is from knowing people and that's also in my career.

[19:40] Seth Rudetsky: And it's not like having connections it's like doing a good job and having someone else be impressed and therefore they recommend you or you know they trust you to do something.

[19:47] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[19:48] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah you you kind of you prove yourself to that first person and then they're like okay I can trust this guy to come back again and exactly yeah that's it's it's funny.

[19:57] Rory O'Malley: A lot of times I think people don't want to take smaller things.

[20:01] Seth Rudetsky: Right.

[20:02] Rory O'Malley: At the beginning because they're like I'm so good or you know like I know what how much I'm capable of so I don't want to do this like small thing.

[20:09] Seth Rudetsky: But the truth is is that you do that small thing and you're gonna meet somebody who's gonna get you start climbing some ladder.

[20:15] Seth Rudetsky: It's not a ladder that goes straight up but it's it's that first rung you know of a lot of people shy away from that's how I got to television.

[20:24] Rory O'Malley: I mean like you know if you want one of those stories is like the basis of this story I guess is don't ever take a job for money.

[20:31] Seth Rudetsky: Like the one thing about me is like I've never ever cared about money.

[20:34] Seth Rudetsky: You know I don't want to be poor but it's like it's it just I it's probably why I'm terrible with money and I don't own a house but like it just doesn't matter to me.

[20:40] Rory O'Malley: So anyway my point is I I've been playing a lot of Broadway shows and um I was doing comedy on the side just the kind of everything I want to do.

[20:48] Seth Rudetsky: And the Easter bonnet came along which for you people that don't know it it's a big kind of variety show Broadway puts on every year for charity for Broadway cares equity quite says so I was working on Greece and I said oh I want to write the comedy sketch and we wrote this comedy sketch because Brooke Shields had just taken over in Greece.

[21:03] Seth Rudetsky: So it was about like who do we get to find as a replacement for Rizzo?

[21:07] Seth Rudetsky: And you know, Maureen, we had a fake Maureen McCormick, and it was you know, you're the one that I want about Brooke Shield.

[21:12] Seth Rudetsky: So anyway, it went over really, really well.

[21:15] Seth Rudetsky: And finally, Barbara Kara said, Can you write the opening number for the Easter bonnet?

[21:19] Seth Rudetsky: Right.

[21:20] Seth Rudetsky: And for the, and you know, it was a really big deal to me because it's like seen by all of Broadley, but the exact same time I was offered Forever Plaid in Hawaii.

[21:28] Seth Rudetsky: And I'd always wanted to go to Hawaii, and it was really good money.

[21:31] Seth Rudetsky: And you know, I wasn't making really any money in those days.

[21:33] Seth Rudetsky: So I was like, Do I get this vacation where I'm gonna get paid a lot?

[21:37] Seth Rudetsky: Or do I do this opening number for no money?

[21:39] Seth Rudetsky: But it was a combination of I really believe in the charity, and also like I really enjoy being challenged, and I did not know if I could write an opening production number.

[21:47] Seth Rudetsky: It was not something I'd ever done before.

[21:49] Seth Rudetsky: So I said, I really want to do something like this because it just seems so different from anything I've ever done.

[21:54] Seth Rudetsky: So I turned down Forever Plaid and I wrote this opening number with up up and coming choreographer, Kathleen Marshall.

[22:00] Seth Rudetsky: She'd never really done anything at that point.

[22:02] Seth Rudetsky: And we did it, you know, and she choreographed it.

[22:04] Seth Rudetsky: And um, the point of my story is that in the audience was Rosie O'Donnell, and Rosie had known me from Greece because she was Rizzo, and we did a closing comedy show that I wrote for her.

[22:14] Seth Rudetsky: So she kind of knew that I was funny.

[22:16] Seth Rudetsky: But the point is when she got her TV show, she called me and she said, Can you write production numbers like Easter Bonnet for my TV show?

[22:25] Seth Rudetsky: And that's how I got a job writing on a TV show.

[22:27] Rory O'Malley: Because I had taken it believe.

[22:28] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, it's one of those things like you just keep doing things, and I didn't take it for money, I didn't take Easter Bonnet for money, but it led to something.

[22:34] Seth Rudetsky: So back to your theory, just take everything because it always leads to something.

[22:38] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[22:41] Seth Rudetsky: Yes, and make you excited.

[22:42] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[22:43] Seth Rudetsky: And even if that means not getting to go to Hawaii.

[22:45] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and just on a side note, you know, my one of my main jobs is interviewing people, and Sutton Foster was offered Epanine in Lay Miz or being in the chorus at Thoroughly Modern Millie, and it was more money than she'd ever made to play Epanine.

[22:57] Seth Rudetsky: And she turned it down because she told her agents, she said, I've already played Epanini in the national tour, and it's cool to be in Broadway School to make money schools.

[23:03] Seth Rudetsky: But I think Millie would be so fun.

[23:04] Seth Rudetsky: I believe in the show, and I don't care if I'm in the chorus.

[23:06] Seth Rudetsky: And then of course it led to her taking over the lead role in winning the Tony Award.

[23:09] Rory O'Malley: But she literally took chorus.

[23:11] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, so it's just insane.

[23:12] Rory O'Malley: You gotta do what you think is fun and not I'm not into those whole five year plans.

[23:16] Seth Rudetsky: It just like keep doing fun things and it keeps leading to something else that's fun.

[23:20] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and you do have to take the chances.

[23:21] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, that like people on this podcast have heard this story many times.

[23:25] Seth Rudetsky: But me taking that nerds show last year, and and you know, I knew that hey, this is the season of Hamilton, this show isn't gonna have a lot of room to last for a whole year.

[23:36] Seth Rudetsky: But I knew like this is gonna be fun, it's gonna be a good challenge, it's gonna show something that I haven't gotten to do before.

[23:42] Seth Rudetsky: And it turns out I only got to do it in the rehearsal room for for a casting director and our team, but that casting director turned out to be the casting director for Hamilton, and it's why I'm the king because of that one day.

[23:56] Rory O'Malley: I love that.

[23:56] Seth Rudetsky: And by the way, you're taking the chorus in Book of Mormon.

[23:59] Rory O'Malley: You didn't know it was going to turn into a role that's gonna get you Tony nomination.

[24:02] Seth Rudetsky: Absolutely.

[24:02] Rory O'Malley: When that was an easy decision because I was working at Black Rock Financial in the human resources department.

[24:07] Seth Rudetsky: Okay, so that wasn't like you know, which one should I do?

[24:12] Rory O'Malley: Well, but but yeah, but you didn't take it to get a Tony nomination, you just took it because you're like it's you know, it's a game.

[24:19] Seth Rudetsky: I just knew who was writing it, and I said, I'll I'll be there, I'll I'll be an assistant to just just to be in that room.

[24:26] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, so yeah, no, you you you never know what something is gonna turn into, and it it's it you can as I always say, you can only connect the dots back, you can't connect them for that's so true, it's a hundred percent true.

[24:38] Seth Rudetsky: But as long as you're enjoying it, then just do it.

[24:41] Rory O'Malley: You know, and what's also funny about my my radio show is so funny is that I did it in college, and I used to cassette tape myself, and my mom for years would always I had this cassette tape somebody DJing.

[24:51] Seth Rudetsky: She'd always say, You should house your own Broadway radio show.

[24:54] Rory O'Malley: And I was like, I don't even know what that means.

[24:55] Seth Rudetsky: I said, What Barbie Radio Show?

[24:57] Rory O'Malley: Like, it doesn't exist.

[24:58] Seth Rudetsky: Like I did it in college.

[25:00] Rory O'Malley: What show are you saying I should do?

[25:01] Seth Rudetsky: Like, it's like saying, like, you really should like, you know, ride around the rings of Saturn.

[25:04] Rory O'Malley: I'm like, there is a Robby Radio show for me to host.

[25:06] Seth Rudetsky: And it just really there was Robbie Radio show, and I started hosting it.

[25:10] Seth Rudetsky: So it was just weird.

[25:10] Rory O'Malley: Like, I didn't even know that was gonna happen, but I had the experience from college, and that's what paid off for me getting Sirius Xm.

[25:16] Rory O'Malley: But well, how did that happen?

[25:17] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, look, there's a there's you do working on the Rosie O'Donnell show, and then you becoming uh a personality of uh a Broadway personality based on your deconstructing performances, doing the Broadway CARES events and putting on shows.

[25:34] Seth Rudetsky: And that was before Sirius Xm, right?

[25:36] Seth Rudetsky: Um no, deconstructing was after Series XM.

[25:39] Seth Rudetsky: Sirius Xm came from the Rosie O'Donnell show.

[25:41] Seth Rudetsky: I was working as a comedy writer on that show for years, and the Grammy Awards happened, and Rosie hosted it.

[25:47] Seth Rudetsky: And I've been doing stand-up comedy and sketch comedy, but I basically stopped when I became a writer on the show, and it was very behind the scenes, like I wore glasses.

[25:54] Seth Rudetsky: Anyway, so Rosie did the Grammy Awards and she took the red eye back.

[25:58] Seth Rudetsky: So she didn't want to rehearse the next morning because she was exhausted.

[26:00] Seth Rudetsky: So she had a number with Martin Short, and they said, Can you just be Rosie in this number?

[26:04] Seth Rudetsky: Because I should write a lot of the comedy, the musical parodies.

[26:06] Seth Rudetsky: They say, Can you just rehearse?

[26:07] Seth Rudetsky: You know, Rosie's part, just do it.

[26:09] Seth Rudetsky: So I did it with Marty Short, and we had a live feed, you'd be able to watch.

[26:13] Seth Rudetsky: And the writer saw it, and they said, Oh, you're such a good performer.

[26:15] Seth Rudetsky: Why don't you know, not to brag, but it said, Why don't you perform more?

[26:18] Seth Rudetsky: And I was like, Oh, I don't perform anymore.

[26:19] Seth Rudetsky: And then I was like, wait, why don't I perform anymore?

[26:21] Seth Rudetsky: So I was like, why have I given this up?

[26:23] Seth Rudetsky: So I called um my friend Richie Jackson, who I went to camp with, but who's like a he like is the executive producer of like nurse nurse Jackie.

[26:31] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, he's a big one now.

[26:32] Seth Rudetsky: And I said, you know, I said, I want to start performing again, but you know, there's so many like Jewish actors.

[26:37] Seth Rudetsky: I'm like, how am I gonna compete with that?

[26:39] Seth Rudetsky: I said, I really feel like what I do best is I have a really specific personality.

[26:43] Seth Rudetsky: And he said, Well, why don't you start doing a talk show every week and then we could bring people from TV to see it, and then you can get it on TV.

[26:49] Seth Rudetsky: So I started doing this the thing called the chatter box, that's what we chatterbox.

[26:53] Seth Rudetsky: Which yet again, I I it seems so easy now looking back on it, I'm like, oh my god, of course I could do that.

[26:58] Seth Rudetsky: But I really didn't.

[26:59] Seth Rudetsky: I was like, I'm gonna talk to someone for an hour about why like it really seemed crazy to me.

[27:05] Seth Rudetsky: And right before that had happened, I talked to some other people on stage during a benefit a quick little interview that I would always do for funsies, and David Friedman, who wrote Help Was on the Way, and he conducted all the Disney movies.

[27:16] Seth Rudetsky: He said, You're such an insider, but such a fan, and it kind of gave me confidence.

[27:20] Seth Rudetsky: I'm like, Oh, that is what I am, kind of like Rosie.

[27:22] Seth Rudetsky: You know, that's sort of the same thing.

[27:23] Seth Rudetsky: So anyway, I started doing this chatter box every week, and PS it never got on TV, but I loved doing it because probably people will go on TV, they would get these four-minute interviews with no information.

[27:33] Seth Rudetsky: I and they get the confused from pre-interviews because I remember Faith Prince during interviews when she was waiting for the Tony nomination for Guys and Dolls.

[27:41] Seth Rudetsky: She would always say, When I'm nervous, I cook and I was making pancakes, and I got the call, I got nominated.

[27:46] Seth Rudetsky: I remember she was on Jay Leno, and Jay Leno was like, Faith, where were you when you won the Tony Award?

[27:50] Seth Rudetsky: And she was like, I was making pancakes.

[27:53] Seth Rudetsky: It was like a crazy, and I was like, Oh my god, does he not even understand?

[27:56] Seth Rudetsky: Oh, they interviewed Jenko Kowski though for my concert, they're like, Jake Kukowski, you're doing funny girl, but this time it's a musical.

[28:02] Seth Rudetsky: And I was like, Oh my god, no one understands anything.

[28:04] Seth Rudetsky: So I was like, I want to do chatter box where I actually understand Broadway and I could really ask great questions because I love Broadway so anyway.

[28:10] Seth Rudetsky: So anyway, began doing the chatter box, and then Richie Richie came to see me and my best friend Jack Platnik. We both wound up writing Disaster together. But in those days, we were a comedy team. Platnik and Rudetsky, Colin, we have awful last names. Well, that's what we wanted to call ourselves. We never, we never gave the call, but we always wanted to call ourselves that. But anyway, we were doing this comedy show, and it was very signature art comedy where I like played tapes of myself when I was a kid and show how fat I was. Just like a lot of comedy about what losers we were. Anyway, Richie came to see it and he said, I know you guys think this is the comedy, but I kind of see it as about two outcasts that took what made them outcasts and then made careers out of them.

And Jack was like, I don't identify with that. And I was like, I do. So I wrote this one person show called Rhapsody and Seth. So I played it off Broadway. Um, I got an agent from it, and I was doing a round of interviews, and I was interviewed on Sirius Xm, and I'd never even heard of it. And I went over this interview, and P.S. It was a horrific interview, where literally the interviewer said to me at the beginning, I saw your show last night. Listen, I just flew by the way, microphones on. I just flew in from LA, so I apologize that I fell asleep during it. I was like, Oh my god, I was like, Oh my god, what are you just saying? Like, it was so passive aggressive. Anyway, oh my god, and I was in a bad, I was like, You're an idiot, and I'm tired.

Regardless, the head of the Broadway channel, Mike Peters came up to me and he said, I just heard your interview. You're really good on the radio. And I was like, I am. I was like, I was so angry. And he said, No, you're really good. He said, Do you have any like recordings of your stuff? He's like, You didn't fall asleep like the guy we have on now, so that's pretty good. Seriously, you have you were able to stay awake for a full 20 minutes. So he said, Do you have any, you know, any audio on you during interview, or whatever? And I said, Oh, I said, Well, I did a BB New Earth interview, and I recorded it, so I just gave it to him. I said, This is like me, you know, talking Broadway. So I gave him the BB New Earth interview, and then a couple weeks later he said, You know, do you want to start DJing here on Saturday and Sunday nights?

Which I thought was a big deal, but now I know it's like the graveyard shift. Like nobody listens to Saturday and Sunday nights, but I was like, all right. So I did it, and literally a week later he was like, oh my God, you're amazing. I mean, not to brag, but he was like, You're amazing. We want you on seven days a week. And literally, I believe, even then, I was like, I don't know, whatever. I just started doing it. I didn't know what it was gonna be, and what it turned out to be was it changed my whole career because I can go do shows in other cities and people know who I am. Like, yeah, how the hell would anyone know who the hell I am? Like Seattle, San Francisco. It's just it everyone from Broadway knows that when you leave New York, one of the first things that people say to you is, I've listened to you on Sirius Xm.

So listen. And people will say to me, Seth knows who you are. I'm like, yes. And he talked about you on his show. I'm like, oh, well, good. I'm glad that you think that I'm someone now. Or you know, Christine Petty or Julie James, that the people who are personalities on Sirius XM Broadway around the country, because Broadway is not in something that's, you know, they can go to like we can. Right. That is their main way to hear it, to be a part of it. And certainly if it was around when I was growing up, I would have been devouring it, like I was the Rosie O'Donnell show, which was my main outlet for Broadway.

[31:17] Rory O'Malley: That was around when you were growing up, great. I was 70 when it started.

[31:18] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, yeah.

[31:21] Rory O'Malley: Well, welcome to my world. I'm in Hamilton, I'm the oldest man in the show.

[31:24] Seth Rudetsky: And where's the fun part? You know, I really I I I sang the facts of life theme song.

[31:30] Seth Rudetsky: Yes, and they had no idea what I was singing. I was like, I need to get around older gay people immediately.

[31:36] Seth Rudetsky: What ho A, holy shite. B, I know. Conscient for America is coming to Atlanta and Kim Fields is gonna be in it.

[31:43] Rory O'Malley: Get out.

[31:45] Seth Rudetsky: So 2T back at you. Tutti. Thank you. I love you.

[31:49] Rory O'Malley: So, but so you you're so you're on seven days a week, Serious XM Broadway.

[31:52] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, I guess I am on seven.

[31:53] Seth Rudetsky: Well, basically six years ago. But when you but initially, like the they take you from the graveyard shift to basically being the face of Sirius Xm.

[32:01] Seth Rudetsky: One of the phases, yes. Broadway. Yes. But um, so so that changes things for you because you can go around the country, you can do your show, much more. But then you start getting into things like writing books and oh that you know that actually maybe even been a little bit before. Basically, that was I went to the s Barnes and Noble. I love reading. I love I can't tell much I love books. I went to Barnes and Noble and I saw like the nanny diaries, like the inside scoop and being a nanny, and I was like, what about the inside scoop on Broadway? I was like, why has no one written that? So I wrote this book called Um Broadway Nights, which Giant Jackson thought was my diary. And I'm like, really?

The lead character is having an affair. Like, you really think I would write about an affair? Anyway, it's purely fiction book. But I was so angry at him. But anyway, I wrote um Broadway Nights, and then my agent said, you know, a really big market is young adult books, especially with lead gay characters. He said, if you write a young adult book with a lead gay character, because I know a big publishing house will publish it. So I wrote it and I got a book deal with Random House. And um on my audiobook, I think a certain Rory J. O'Malley was featured.

[33:03] Rory O'Malley: Uh it was you and I'm trying to think which one you were on. Were you with the one with Jesse Tyler Ferguson?

[33:09] Seth Rudetsky: Yes. Yes, it was you and Jessica Ferguson and Megan Hilte. And I wrote that. That was my awesome awful popularity plan. And then I wrote the sequel, which is the Rise and Fall of a Theater Geek. And I just always love to write. So yeah, I write books on the side because I enjoy it.

[33:23] Rory O'Malley: I do. I like to write.

[33:26] Seth Rudetsky: I write books on the side because I enjoy it.

[33:29] Rory O'Malley: Well, please, that's wonderful.

[33:32] Seth Rudetsky: But you know, I've been I've been lucky. But that's but talk about a struggle. That was a major struggle. I mean, I never I haven't even talked about that for a second. Just going back with the whole thing about struggling. It's like my Dreamgirls concert. I saw I did a big fundraiser for the Gay and Lesbian Synagogue. Lillius White sang Effie, and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe how good she is. I want to do this on Broadway with Lilius with an orchestra. And I was like, no, it would make money. And I was like, it's never going to be revived this minute, so why don't I just put on a one-night concert of it? And I went to like major charities, and they were like, we don't want to use a full orchestra show.

What about a rock band? I was like, no, I was like, it has to be full orchestra. So believe me, I could have just been like, oh well, I guess not. But I finally went to the actors' fund and they were like, yes. So the actors fund did it. But I totally got a lot of notes. My first book, I can't even tell you the amount of rejection letters I got. Like, it was relentless. And in a sense, it makes you I remember even my agent not doubted me, but it was like, you know, he was like, maybe put it away and then revisit it. And I started reading it again, and I was like, no. I was like, I think it's a really good book. Like, I'm not afraid to get criticism, but I'm really not. But I was reading it and I was like, I enjoy it.

And that's kind of my main, that's kind of my main mo, is that the word? Motos operante for anything I've ever done. It's like, well, I enjoy this in the audience. So I always go by my taste. And that's the easiest way for me to create. So I was really enjoying my book, you know, and I really liked it. Anyway, I finally got a publishing deal. But that was I literally went at one point. My agent said, worst comes to worst, go to, and it was some horrific publishing house. He goes, Worst comes to worst, go to this publishing house. I can't present it to them because they pay no money, but you can't. And I sent it to them, and they rejected it. It was literally the worst comes to the worst.

[35:10] Seth Rudetsky: Literally, they don't even pay the like worse. Worst came to worse.

[35:14] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, and it actually got worse. So, like, I've completely faced, I mean, yeah, I mean, and even on the radio, I still get like hate mail. Like, why do you talk at all? We want music. And then I have to be like, I I don't know, I'm paid to do that. Like, I don't know what to say.

[35:30] Rory O'Malley: Well, if people are listening to Sirius XM Broadway, uh, you know, they could just have a playlist.

[35:36] Seth Rudetsky: Right.

[35:36] Seth Rudetsky: You know, like you, you you are trying to engage in the community.

[35:39] Rory O'Malley: So I but you know, everyone has a lot of opinions, especially especially in our community.

[35:45] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, but but I think I think that it goes to say that you are you are authentic to who you are, and you always have been, and that there aren't there aren't people who are in the places who make decisions who always understand who your audience is, and and you have had to kind of make a path and cultivate that audience and and show the people who make decisions like this is a group of people who want this content, who want this message, who want access in this way.

[36:18] Seth Rudetsky: Well, you know, it's interesting when you say about the audience because to this day, I either get this, I listen to your radio show, and I'm straight. And I go, what does it have? What does that literally have to do with anything? I go, guess what? Broadway is an American art form. Broadway's been loved by America for years. America is actually the minority of people in America is gay. So obviously, the majority of America like Broadway to keep it alive. And Sullivan was straight. He was a crazy right-wing person. So this stupid theory that Broadway is gay infuriates me because it's basically why the arts have been cut. Because it's like, why do we need to have the arts in high school? It's for gay people, it's not for gay people.

And and I literally will continually, I mean, I remember there was one great article about Sirius Xm. This guy was like, I know nothing about Broadway, but I love listening to Seth Rudetsky's show because it just kept me engaged for for whatever reason. Like, and that's what I I have a passion about Broadway, and that's what I think engages people. But this theory that only gay people listen to my show is so moronic and infuriating to me.

[37:13] Rory O'Malley: Is that something that you get presented with a lot?

[37:16] Seth Rudetsky: Oh, well, I I get it mostly from fans. I or I get like my father listens and he's a straight navy person. I go, uh-huh. I guess he enjoys the arts, as most humans do. So yeah, no, I get it all the time. Or even people saying, I'm a someone just today interviewed me and said, Oh, I'm a big show queen. And I was like, why are you a queen because you like Broadway? What you're implying is I'm feminine and basically weak because I like this art form. And I'm like, no, you're actually a theater fan. I don't understand why you have to demean yourself because you like Broadway. It just drives me up the wall.

[37:47] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[37:48] Rory O'Malley: No, I I I get that.

[37:50] Seth Rudetsky: And certainly I think we lived through a childhood, probably, that you know, kind of like equated the two, when in fact, it's not that you loving Broadway or loving theater makes you gay.

[38:02] Seth Rudetsky: I'll I'll actually 100% tell you that it's not what makes me gay.

[38:07] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[38:07] Seth Rudetsky: Um, but the fact that the community of theater is an oasis, a safe haven for a lot of gay people where they are accepted.

[38:17] Rory O'Malley: That could be in sports too.

[38:20] Seth Rudetsky: It's just not done.

[38:22] Seth Rudetsky: And that's unfortunate.

[38:23] Rory O'Malley: Right, you're not accepted in sports if you're gay, but certainly gay people like sports, and certainly straight people like Broadway.

[38:29] Seth Rudetsky: And it's gotten more marginalized, much more marginalized over the last 20 years than it used to be. Broadway used to be for everybody, and now it's much more thought of as a gay thing, and it drives me crazy.

[38:39] Rory O'Malley: Well, I think that, like, um not not to keep bringing it back to Hamilton, but I do think that somehow I bring up Hamilton every 20 minutes.

[38:39] Seth Rudetsky: Not to keep bringing up new signals half an hour.

[38:50] Rory O'Malley: No, but it's true.

[38:52] Seth Rudetsky: Hamilton has made it more mainstream.

[38:54] Rory O'Malley: You're right.

[38:54] Seth Rudetsky: It has.

[38:55] Rory O'Malley: I mean, there were I I just had dinner with my cousins who live in in uh a suburb of San Jose yesterday. There's three girls, and the oldest is 13 years old, and she said that she loves Hamilton, and there's a group of people who like don't like Hamilton and they debate about it all the time in eighth grade. And she was like, I'm sorry they don't like it. I was like, are you kidding me? The fact that there are eighth graders who even know what Hamilton is, I was like, no one would have a discussion with me about Sweeney Todd in eighth grade. I would have killed to have the debate.

[39:29] Seth Rudetsky: Right.

[39:29] Rory O'Malley: Do I think that would have been amazing? Get back to me.

[39:32] Seth Rudetsky: Yes, exactly.

[39:33] Rory O'Malley: But um, you know, I I think that as we started talking about like with Facebook Live and social media and Sirius Xm and ways that people have had access to all those live musicals.

[39:47] Seth Rudetsky: I 100% agree.

[39:49] Seth Rudetsky: Let's talk about that for a second. I talked about this on the podcast. Those musicals, people give such a hard time in our community about them, and they have from the beginning. And I understand that, you know, like I I want them always to be amazing, but I think that it's a huge deal, a game changer that networks are fighting for which musicals to be put on television live.

[40:15] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, two things I'll say about it. A, whenever they're like, why are they casting so-and-so? I'm so bored with that. It's like, unfortunately, we're always gonna have to cast some level of stars because the regular world doesn't care that much about Broadway. You've got to sucker them in with somebody. So stop complaining that so and so is cast. Second of all, the shows are figuring out how to do it. The whole not having any audience, they kind of finally realized was too weird that you'd end a number to total crickets. So now they're adding an audience. It's sort of like watching Seinfeld and be like, this show is bad. I think, right? It's the first two episodes, it's gonna get better. It was like these live meetings will keep getting better when they start realizing it. But stop being so mean about them.

[40:52] Rory O'Malley: Shut up.

[40:53] Seth Rudetsky: I know. I that's exactly how I felt. Like I literally want to meet Carrie Underwood and hug her just for the fact that she started this. And people wanna like give her shit for belting Maria. She did a great job, and she belted Maria and we'll never get to have that again. So just enjoy it from the one time. Mary Martin belted it. Like those are the original keys. Okay.

[41:16] Rory O'Malley: So shove it.

[41:17] Seth Rudetsky: Yes.

[41:18] Seth Rudetsky: And and she literally started uh launched uh an art form, a new medium, a new medium of the the the way that we love uh to have storytelling be told through music and and and it's awesome, and it's getting better. Each one gets better and better.

[41:35] Rory O'Malley: I agree it out.

[41:36] Seth Rudetsky: My God, Jesus Christ Superstar is gonna be uh amazing.

[41:39] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I'm really I'm really looking forward to it.

[41:41] Seth Rudetsky: So let's let's let's talk a little bit more about the state of the actual Broadway stage right now.

[41:48] Seth Rudetsky: Um our buddy Gavin Creole won a Tony award.

[41:51] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god, Roy, while we had that that meal we had in Province Town to this day, I can't stop laughing how funny you were. Remember when when he ordered pasta, and it was like, is it Rotini or is it Papadella?

[42:05] Seth Rudetsky: And like and like it is Rotini.

[42:08] Rory O'Malley: You were like, what does it make a difference? You're like, I will not have that shape in my mouth.

[42:12] Seth Rudetsky: Anyway, it was such a good analysis. Because people make such a big deal about the shape of the pasta. I'm like, it's still the just put it in, for God's sake. Anyway, yeah, Gavin, James, and I were actually at the Tony Awards this year. We leapt to our feet. I was crying. I was so happy for him.

[42:29] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, like, obviously, we both know Gab and love him, but it's about the work that he's put in. Oh my god. He should, he should have. I mean, my one disappointment I said in the radio show today, I really want him to win for originating a role instead of doing a revival. He's such a unique performer. Like, shows should be written on his voice. So I just want that to be the next step for him that he originates something.

[42:54] Rory O'Malley: Well, and he should, and hopefully something will be built around him.

[42:57] Seth Rudetsky: And that voice and the dancing, the acting, like everything.

[43:02] Rory O'Malley: Dancing. Everything. Now I haven't seen Hello Dolly.

[43:05] Seth Rudetsky: He's amazing.

[43:06] Rory O'Malley: Which has been very difficult for me. Um, this is like the first Broadway season that I haven't been there for. So it's rough.

[43:14] Rory O'Malley: But what do you think of the current state of Broadway just in general? Like, like the shows that are out now, things that are happening. What are your thoughts?

[43:24] Seth Rudetsky: Um, I'm very happy that I feel there is good original stuff out there that—be quiet, my dog keeps barking—that you know, there's always been this theory that, oh, if we make this famous movie into a musical, it's gonna sell tickets. I feel like people are realizing that that's no longer a surefire way to do something, and sometimes it is amazing. I mean, although Harrisburg wasn't really a big hit, it was more of a cult hit. But the point is, it can definitely work.

[43:49] Seth Rudetsky: But what I love is that shows that are just written to be creative are, I mean, like Hamilton. I mean, talk about a boring ass subject matter. So I love that that's happening, that there's creativity, people are taking chances on stuff. And a lot of times you say taking a chance on stuff, it means a horrible atonal score. I'm not saying take a chance on something a splitting headache, but I'm saying take a chance on something that doesn't—that's not based on something that you think from your marketing research will do well. So that I appreciate.

[44:16] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, my biggest thing that I talk about all the time, and I it's a losing battle, is the state of the orchestra. It's just really devastating to me. You listen to these old shows, and you just hear that amazing string section, and everyone says, oh, you don't need it anymore because you can use synthesizers and microphones, and it just doesn't sound the same, and it's literally devastating to me that it doesn't sound the same way as it used to sound.

[44:39] Seth Rudetsky: And I talk about it all the time on the radio, and there also is a use of lip syncing on Broadway, which is so horrific to me, and it is so noticeable to me. Whenever you see these big dance numbers, and there's this total even sound, this wall of sound coming towards you, instead of the unevenness of someone dancing, which makes it exciting because it's live, you hear unevenness, you hear this wall of sound. I can't stand it because it's like being in a theme park.

[45:03] Rory O'Malley: And it's definitely—that's so weird. I haven't noticed it.

[45:05] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, you have clearly a much better ear, but I haven't noticed it.

[45:09] Seth Rudetsky: Mega makes a Mamma Mia. It's this wall of sound, a wall of just—um, no, there's no liveness to it.

[45:25] Rory O'Malley: Right, like you might as well just stay home and listen to the recording.

[45:30] Seth Rudetsky: You know, and then people use this theory like you can't sing and you can't dance at that level and sing. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like every Broadway show has had crazy things. Now, look, A Chorus Line had a lot of dancing, and yeah, they had background singers, those people that are cut from the opening number went backstage and sang to microphones. But it was an additional six people. They didn't have thirty people singing it and the cast on stage lipsynced. The cast on stage sang, and then they had an additional six singers.

[45:54] Seth Rudetsky: It's a complete myth. It's the same myth that producers use when they go, oh, an orchestra is too expensive. An orchestra is not too expensive. Custom-made shoes are too expensive, or a crazy ass set that no one gives a shit about is too expensive. But this myth that a full orchestra is expensive is a complete and I mean unadulterated lie, and it infuriates me.

[46:12] Rory O'Malley: Love Seth.

[46:14] Seth Rudetsky: Well, thank you, Seth. Thank you. I really appreciate you know you always hold back on your opinion, and so I'm glad that you could give me straight up today.

[46:22] Rory O'Malley: Yes, finally, Seth speaks.

[46:27] Rory O'Malley: Um, so you've—I like I said, I wanted to talk to you on the podcast because I'm so amazed at all of the different twists and turns that your career has taken and will continue to take. And the fact that you and James have done all of this work for charity, for a good cause, on top of everything that you're doing.

[46:50] Rory O'Malley: And you have a family together. Oh, you know, like don't forget that. That's kind of like what I think is most important to talk about in this podcast because people don't really get to talk about that when they go on interviews and talk about Broadway. How have you been able to maintain family life, family structure in all of the craziness that is your life?

[47:11] Seth Rudetsky: Which is you're the first person who has is so busy that has suggested that we do twenty minutes and then take a break so you could do whatever you had to do and then do another twenty minutes later.

[47:22] Seth Rudetsky: It was easy for me that way. Um, you know, I've been really lucky. I go out of town a lot, but I could do a lot of shows around the country. But I, yeah, I'm notorious, and people my people I work with or they think I'm crazy, but I'll always like take like a 6 a.m. flight back because I want to get back and live my New York life. So I'll always basically get to the venue the day of and I'll leave the next morning, 6 o'clock.

[47:43] Seth Rudetsky: So yes, I travel a lot, but I, you know, I think it's really important to be back with my family. So I do these very quick trips, and I've been really lucky that a multitude of my trips I could bring my family on. So it's like basically every single cruise, I'm doing Seth's Big Fat Broadway Cruise. We'd be from Seattle, go to Alaska, and I bring in the whole family. So a lot of stuff I'm quote unquote busy with, but the family's always there.

[48:02] Seth Rudetsky: I mean, Disaster, James and I did together, and Julie was backstage. You know, we just we kind of do things together all the time. That's I guess how you maintain it. The only way to not maintain it is to be separate too much, and I don't think we are.

[48:16] Rory O'Malley: Right. No, I mean, you definitely have found a way. And obviously, when you are making a life with somebody, you have the same interests, and luckily you and James have the same passion, and that really helps.

[48:27] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, I love working with him. I think of us as Lucy and Desi, you know, like without the alcoholism and cheating. But like really, like, I mean, you know, they couldn't help it. There was like way before therapy. I think they really did love each other. I'm upset with Lucy and Desi. But they were so creative. Um, that's how I kind of think of me and James that we do all these creative ventures together. I love doing it, and I really trust his opinion.

[48:46] Rory O'Malley: Well, and so let's end with talking about Disaster, which was a huge creative process. It was an amazing show. You wrote it, you starred in it, you—I mean, you did so much work. Um, and I'm sure that was not just like an easy street path.

[49:07] Seth Rudetsky: No, even it's so funny because we're going to London now. I mean, well, we're planning on it. We're still signing contracts and whatnot. Right. But I was really impressed. It's funny, I was emailing with the producer of Natasha, Pierre, and I said, oh my god, the Tony Awards, you have like the rising—everything. And he wrote his dead, oh, I've always said bigger is better for this show. And I said, God, I said I felt that way about Disaster, you know, because Natasha, Pierre began at Ars Nova, which is like, you know, a stage. That's where I did Rhapsody and Seth, my one-person show. Like, that's how big the stage is.

[49:37] Seth Rudetsky: And I think people have this myth in their head, like if it begins in a small space, it's a small show. And when I was doing Disaster, people kept being like, how is I gonna transfer to Broadway? It's really small. And I was like, no, we took a Broadway-sized show and we shoved it into a little theater, but it's about earthquakes and tidal waves and disco. Where is the small part? Like, literally acting like it was a one-person show about physics that I had a little—I'm like, it's literally an earthquake and tidal wave, killer bees and disco music. I don't understand what the small—but anyway, it was a constant struggle to explain to people it's not a little comedy sketch, it's literally a show.

[50:08] Seth Rudetsky: So that was hard. Also, people kept saying to me, you're never gonna get the song rights. And some of this famous producer was like, you're never gonna get the song. And finally was like, I think it was by me, it was just FYI, going back for a second. We first did it as a benefit for Only Make Believe, this great charity that brings theater to hospitalized children. And I said to James, I said, I really wanted to get it to Off-Broadway, but you know, no one's contacting me to produce it. And we were at Aroma Coffee on 72nd Street, and James said, why don't you do it at um, what's it called? That's Steve McGraw's The Triad. And I said, I was like, that's right, did Forever Plaid. It's literally and Forbidden Broadway, it's for four people on stage. And he said, it doesn't matter, just do it there.

[50:46] Seth Rudetsky: So it was James's idea. So we shoved this big show into this little space, but because we did that, we got this great New York Times review. So my point is, like, I guess, A, James has always been the engine behind Disaster. That's what I love it. He was one propelling it. But in terms of the struggle, everyone kept saying, you're never gonna get the song rights. And finally, James said, well, why don't you just try to get the song rights yourself?

[51:05] Seth Rudetsky: So my friend had written Rock of Ages, and I said, who got your song rights? And he said, this woman, Janet Billig-Grid. So I wrote a very nice email and she wrote me back, which is why I'm so lucky. Oh my god, I'm a big fan of yours from Sirius Xm. And I'm like, oh my god, that radio show is like the gift that you keep giving. Like, it's amazing.

[51:19] Seth Rudetsky: And she got the song rights, and I just—the one I think very inspiring story I'll tell is that it was difficult to get the song rights. And when we got to Broadway, the song rights changed. And Jennifer Samard had been this major hit Off-Broadway. She played the gambling nun with the gambling addiction, and she sang Signed, Sealed, Delivered, and she got a Drama Desk nomination and all the reviews. And literally a month before we began rehearsals, I had to call her and say, we don't have the rights for Signed, Sealed, Delivered. And it was literally the song that like made her a star on Broadway.

[51:49] Seth Rudetsky: And the good news is, James had been researching for weeks another song. And I kept saying, why are you researching? Where are you gonna get the rights? And it was like, what about—I was like, stop bothering me. But he kept researching it. And then I said, well, I want to do Heaven Knows. Heaven knows, she's a nun, and it's not the way it should be. You know, she's gambling. And I was sort of committing to it, and I was really happy about it. And James was like, he kept looking. I was like, stop looking, I already chose a song.

[52:12] Seth Rudetsky: Anyway, he said, what about Never Can Say Goodbye? And I was like, oh my god, it's so good because Signed, Sealed, Delivered, she gives herself over to the slot machine, but Never Can Say Goodbye is this struggle of I love you, but I hate you and I love you. And I called Jennifer and I said, we lost the rights, but we got a new song. So it was on Thanksgiving. She was chopping vegetables. She was devastated, and then she called me back. She goes, okay, I processed it. And she goes, let's actually make it even better. And it was a great way to look at it. It's like we had a great song.

[52:40] Seth Rudetsky: Yeah, and she got a Tony nomination. So I'm not sure.

[52:42] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and well, and she's—and it helps when you're a comedic genius. Like, she just has that.

[52:49] Seth Rudetsky: She is brilliant.

[52:50] Seth Rudetsky: But I guess my point is for those of you that think, oh my god, this stunk with the show, or we lost this venue, or you with nerds. It's like you don't—you may think something is terrible, but if you just kind of keep hoping and working on something, it could get even better. And that's what happened with Disaster. We were devastated, and it actually worked out even better for her.

[53:07] Rory O'Malley: That's amazing. I think that, you know, one of the themes from your story, and what I think is so important is that a lot of times people are ready to go to auditions and hear no, but they aren't ready to like get in the actual world of this business and hear no and think like that's normal.

[53:25] Seth Rudetsky: It's normal.

[53:25] Rory O'Malley: You hear no every day, all the time. You have to not—that's a thing. It's like the serenity prayer, you know, God grant me the serenity to change things I can't. You have to know who to believe and who not to believe. And that is a real trick because people say no, and you're like, like those publishers for my book, like it's not a good book. I'm like, I could either have been like, I guess it's not, or I could be like, what is your advice? Let me try to take it, or I could go, I actually don't believe you.

[53:49] Seth Rudetsky: And I was—I remember being at the gym with my trainer, and I was saying, oh, this producer rejected Disaster. And he was like, why don't you produce it? This one we first went to Broadway. And I was like, oh, I'm not a producer. Then I was like, wait, what is a producer? I was like, it's just called a person. I was like, they don't have a degree in producing, they're literally just people. I was like, why don't I produce it? And that's why we produced it Off-Broadway.

[54:07] Seth Rudetsky: So the point is, you do hear no, and you have to know what to trust within that no. It's like, you know, do you—what do you change to make it a yes? And I was really inspired by Tina Fey's book. She says over, under, through. It's like someone is blocking you instead of pushing against them, Sesame Street style, go over, under, through to get what your goal is. And that's really inspired me.

[54:27] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I think that you embody that. And I'm so impressed with what you've created and your career. I am—I've hopefully I've always expressed this to you because there's just no one who has done what you've done.

[54:45] Seth Rudetsky: You know, so it's hard to take a compliment and not go, who's just being polite.

[54:48] Rory O'Malley: But I do appreciate it.

[54:50] Seth Rudetsky: I am serious. I mean, I'm not just having you on this podcast to have other people hear how you did this. I wanted to know.

[54:57] Rory O'Malley: Oh, you're so—

[54:58] Seth Rudetsky: I think that you do have to make your own career. And if you're going to keep finding the things that inspire you that keep you authentic in the way that you have, that you have to figure out how other people have done it. And you know, that's kind of the reasons that I'm doing this podcast.

[55:12] Rory O'Malley: So I really appreciate you giving me the time in your very busy day.

[55:18] Seth Rudetsky: Which is every day of your life.

[55:19] Rory O'Malley: Uh, but it's all fun busyness.

[55:21] Seth Rudetsky: I'm not in the coal mine, I'm just having fun.

[55:22] Rory O'Malley: No, of course. You do it with joy, and that's why you can keep doing it, you know.

[55:27] Seth Rudetsky: Um, but I'm really excited for Saturday. I hope that everybody in San Francisco comes to see the big show Saturday night.

[55:33] Rory O'Malley: Thank you. And I will see you there.

[55:38] Seth Rudetsky: Oh, thank you. You know, I might have chosen this lighting—lighting's amazing. Good for me.

[55:43] Rory O'Malley: I mean, I just—I don't want my guests to be sick to their stomach in the wrong way.

[55:47] Seth Rudetsky: No, if anything, I'm incredibly jealous of the old husband, so Mr. O'Malley, if he's still got it, just saying that.

[55:53] Rory O'Malley: All right, work. Uh, all right. Well, I will see you Saturday in San Francisco.

[55:59] Seth Rudetsky: Thank you for doing this.

[56:00] Rory O'Malley: All right, bye, Rory.

[56:01] Seth Rudetsky: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.