This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jessica Rush: Thank you so much for tuning in to Mama's Talkin' Loud.

[0:03] Cara Cooper: Jess and I love bringing these stories to you, amplifying the journey of the working artist mom, supporting the struggle, and striving to change the social safety net.

[0:11] Jessica Rush: But we need your help.

[0:13] Cara Cooper: If you haven't already, we would so appreciate if you would follow, rate, and review us wherever you listen to your podcast.

[0:19] Jessica Rush: This is the way we can continue to raise awareness and change the narrative.

[0:23] Cara Cooper: And if you want more insight into our world, please follow us on Instagram at Mama's Talkin' Loud, on Twitter at Mama's Talkin' Pod, and on our website, www.mamastalkinloud.com.

[0:36] Cara Cooper: Hi everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud.

[0:39] Jessica Rush: I'm Cara Cooper.

[0:40] Jessica Rush: And I'm Jessica Rush.

[0:42] Cara Cooper: Today's guest is currently starring as Miss Jen on Disney Plus's High School Musical: The Musical: The Series, but is most definitely no stranger to the stage. Having played Cynthia Weill in Beautiful, Portia in Something Rotten, Glinda in Wicked, and even Dainty June in Gypsy, just to name a few.

[0:59] Jessica Rush: She shares with us her unexpected motherhood journey and how therapy has always been an integral part of her life and show business, all with a healthy dose of humor and humble pie. Here's our conversation with Kate Reinders.

[1:12] ♪ Musical number: "Mama's Talkin' Loud" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[1:39] Cara Cooper: Hi.

[1:40] Kate Reinders: Hi, you guys.

[1:42] Cara Cooper: We had a lot of technical difficulties, everybody, to get this started, but we are here.

[1:47] Kate Reinders: Okay, well, I would just like to say 99% of the technical difficulties were mine.

[1:53] Cara Cooper: Uh so I win over here.

[1:56] Kate Reinders: Yay! Thank you so much for being here from Utah.

[2:00] Kate Reinders: Are you kidding, you guys? I love you, and I am so impressed with you on so many levels.

[2:07] Jessica Rush: Well, thank you. That's very generous of you. I appreciate it.

[2:11] Kate Reinders: No, it's just it's just the truth, you guys rock.

[2:13] Jessica Rush: Well, you rock, and you're joining us from Utah.

[2:16] Cara Cooper: Who who that is where yeah, that is where people rock the most.

[2:22] Kate Reinders: Yeah, Utah.

[2:24] Kate Reinders: It's actually very beautiful.

[2:25] Jessica Rush: It is.

[2:26] Kate Reinders: I bet. But much different from New York or New York.

[2:29] Cara Cooper: New York City or LA.

[2:30] Kate Reinders: About as different as you can get, I kinda I think.

[2:33] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[2:34] Kate Reinders: You know?

[2:34] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[2:34] Cara Cooper: Well, we're gonna get into all that.

[2:37] Kate Reinders: Oh boy.

[2:37] Cara Cooper: Oh, we are we always we always start asking about um, you know, your child or your children. So will you tell us about Luke?

[2:43] Kate Reinders: Yes. Luke is my one son. He will be four next month. Um he is hilarious. Uh he is testing his boundaries every moment of every day. Um he memorizes books and movies and songs so quickly that I wish I had that brain, but I just uh I'm a little bit older than four and uh it doesn't work that way anymore. And um, yeah, he he's so fun. He's so fun that I almost don't mind getting up early every day for the state.

[3:23] Cara Cooper: Is he an early rising early riser?

[3:26] Kate Reinders: Just buy me a coat, Carol. Well, there have been, yeah, it's there have been phases. Um, but now he's actually in preschool, which is amazing.

[3:35] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[3:36] Kate Reinders: Um, I guess I just did not realize that school which was such a gift to parents until now.

[3:43] Cara Cooper: Yep, yeah.

[3:43] Kate Reinders: Because I was always on the going to school side of things. And I was like, well, why'd they make it so early? Why'd they make it so long? And I'm like, yes. Make it longer. Can it be on the weekends?

[3:57] Jessica Rush: I remember being so I remember being so sad that Elliot was gonna be going. And it was only gonna be like two days a week to start. And I was like, but we're all I'm not gonna be with her all the time and hang out. And then I I took her the first day. And that day I remember I met a friend for lunch. I got a facial. I was just wandering around the city. I didn't have to worry about where I had to be to pick her up until three o'clock or whatever. And I was like, this is amazing.

[4:21] Kate Reinders: Yeah.

[4:21] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[4:22] Jessica Rush: And you and and you got so much done, right?

[4:25] Kate Reinders: Yeah look at that. Lunch, facial, like all the shopping, all the errands, and then you're like doo-doo, now what?

[4:32] Cara Cooper: Yeah, it's the best thing ever.

[4:34] Kate Reinders: Yeah, absolutely. Did you I this is a kind of a personal question just because we've known each other for so long. But did you always know you wanted to be a mom, Kate? Was that no, no no no no I thought I would not be a mother.

[4:45] Kate Reinders: I thought for sure I would definitely not be one. I was very good at not getting pregnant. I also had a lot of uh of issues quite you know it things that the doctors said that I probably wouldn't be able to get pregnant. Um so I was quite relaxed and got knocked up immediately because I thought there was no way it would happen. So um so the joke's on me. No but really it is it is the best thing ever, right?

[5:14] Jessica Rush: It r it is, but I had no idea. Um but no, I was definitely one of those people who was like, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna be an actress. I'm and I'm gonna live in New York and I'm gonna be Carrie Bradshaw on a budget, and uh, and that's my dream, and I'm living the dream. And um, yeah, and now I'm I'm mac and cheese and peanut butter crackers and all sorts of things that I did not know existed. Uh and I mean the entertainment that's available.

[5:47] Cara Cooper: That's true.

[5:47] Kate Reinders: Yes. I mean things that I never needed to know about Blippy.

[5:52] Cara Cooper: Oh, Blippy.

[5:53] Kate Reinders: No offense, no offense, dude. Like he figured out how to make millions of dollars. So what? We literally say it every day. I was like, Graham, this could have been you. You could have been absolutely could have been Blippy. You could have been Brippy.

[6:04] Cara Cooper: I don't know if it's too I don't think it's it might not be too late.

[6:06] Kate Reinders: We talk about it. We need a different color scheme. He can really musicalize it.

[6:12] Cara Cooper: Yeah. I think this is a great idea.

[6:14] Kate Reinders: I think I think we have to tell people like how that y'all have known each other for so long. Like Kate and I have met socially, but Cara and Kate have known each other for like 20 years.

[6:24] Jessica Rush: Yeah, yeah.

[6:26] Kate Reinders: That's why and she knows Graham so well, because y'all did Gypsy, right? Together.

[6:28] Cara Cooper: Yes, but I actually knew Graham from before that because I did the Sound of Music tour with his brother and sister, and his mom was on the tour, and um and he would come visit for holidays and stuff. So I knew the whole the whole Bowen clan road.

[6:46] Kate Reinders: Right, and well, and so so now that's how you're able to speak with such authority about Graham as Blippy.

[6:51] Cara Cooper: About his ability to be the next Blippy.

[6:53] Kate Reinders: Oh, yeah, was I offending sorry listeners.

[6:55] Cara Cooper: No, no, no.

[6:56] Kate Reinders: I just was I have known him since yeah, I mean, how old was he when I met him in his teens? I'm sure, because he was nineteen during Gypsy.

[7:04] Cara Cooper: So no, he was 20.

[7:05] Kate Reinders: He was 20. When he he turned 20 when Gypsy started. Yeah, I met him when he was 19.

[7:12] Cara Cooper: Listen, snatch up the good ones.

[7:13] Kate Reinders: You've got to.

[7:14] Cara Cooper: Right? They're a few and far between. But I want to go back, because you said, you know, you're like, I just thought I'd be living the dream. But Kate, like you kinda are still living the dream. I mean, you've got a kid, which is amazing and wonderful, but you've had a super full Broadway career.

[7:36] Kate Reinders: So like Well, you know, no, thank you. Thank you for saying that. I'm not saying I'm not living the dream. You're absolutely right. But actually, what's different? Yes, the dream keeps evolving.

[7:46] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[7:46] Kate Reinders: But isn't that the thing? Like, we have to grow with the dreams. We have to keep changing them. Um, but I I also think that motherhood, I mean, as cheesy as this sounds, I think motherhood is one of the reasons I got High School Musical: The Musical: The Series. Because when I had Luke, uh tell me if you feel the same way. But you know, we're actors, so we're like, oh, we have emotions, we're really good at showing all these different emotions. No, I did not understand so many things, and my heart cracked open and like splatted everywhere when I had Luke. And I think that has made me a better actor. It made me better it make it's made me a better woman. And you know, I I'm not the mom on the show, but I am basically the mom. I'm the mom of all those teenage kids who who have their act better together better than I do. But um, but yeah, I think yeah, I didn't realize it, but Luke has has made everything better.

[8:47] Cara Cooper: I do think, I mean, we've said that before, and we've had other guests say that as well. I think that you everyone thinks they know, right? We all think we know what it will be when you become a mother. Until that happens, then you realize, oh, I knew nothing. Like I really didn't know anything about how that would affect me emotionally, physically, all the things. But I do think that as artists, you can there's more depth. You can connect to emotions and you can feel emotions and empathize in a way with humanity that you were never able to before when we're telling these stories, right?

[9:24] Kate Reinders: That's exactly that's exactly right. And I mean, I this is the cheesiest, but I swear I grew up, I mean, I don't know if you did, but I grew up in the two albums I knew every word to were um Les Mis and Miss Saigon, right? Just to date myself, everyone.

[9:40] Cara Cooper: That's our era.

[9:40] Kate Reinders: And no, no, no, talking to us. But Miss Saigon, right? You'd be like, I give my life for you, like singing along, body boo boop. And then I now I'm like just crying because I understand her.

[9:54] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[9:55] Kate Reinders: And oh, and you guys, I went to see Waitress when I was pregnant. Like, and whoa hello. I mean, that's a hormonal rage there anyway, but I was just l like I had to shut down the watching of the show because I didn't want to disturb my fellow audience members, but I started to like like sob because yeah, because being pregnant, I mean, is just it it makes you it reexamine and examine and question and doubt and feel, and then um yeah.

[10:26] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I yeah, I sometimes I feel like it's almost like in like it's motherhood cracks you open so much that almost it's like you can't sustain it. Like your emp the amount of empathy that you feel, you like have to quash it down because if you felt that way all the time, you wouldn't be able to function, right?

[10:42] Kate Reinders: Exactly.

[10:43] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah.

[10:43] Kate Reinders: That's why I literally that's why, like in the show, it was like, shut it down, not watching, not paying attention.

[10:48] Cara Cooper: Yeah, Eric did that. Eric did the reading, you know, he was in the original company of Waitress, and the reading they had was when Elliot was three months old, and I went to the presentation, and I'm sitting next to Daryl Roth, and I just was like, you know, it's like it's Sara Bareilles. That was that's amazing. Those kind of moments are amazing because Sara Bareilles put to music and wrote the experience that is so in tune with what it is, and yet she is not a mother yet.

[11:17] Kate Reinders: So it's fascinating in that way.

[11:19] Cara Cooper: But she is a great empathizer, though.

[11:21] Kate Reinders: I was gonna say, or she's been one in past lives or something. She's a genius, brilliant person.

[11:26] Cara Cooper: Totally, exactly.

[11:27] Kate Reinders: Exactly. But yeah, no, no, but see, that was perfect for you to be there and be like, I am your audience, and yes, this works.

[11:35] Cara Cooper: Correct.

[11:36] Kate Reinders: Yeah, nail red, boom.

[11:38] Cara Cooper: Yeah, uh-huh. We were both born today. That lyric is just so oh my god, so good.

[11:45] Cara Cooper: All right, well, this will turn into like a Sara Bareilles Waitress like love fest. I wanna I want to go back to how you talked about like feeling like a mother figure on set. Because I feel like all three of us have experienced this because we've been in the business for such a long time, right? And so you come up and you're the kid, you're like the young one that forever forever, and everybody's kind of mothering you, you know, and you're like, you know, the newbie, whatever, and you're young, and then I I know I recently had this experience at The Prom. Like I went in, I was playing a a PTA mom, and then B, everybody in the cast was in their 20s and was so young, and I was like, Oh, oh, I I am now the mama of the cast, or I am now like in a caretaking position, just naturally because of my life experience. And it's so it's just mind-blowing to go through that, I think.

[12:40] Kate Reinders: Well, and how come it seems to happen overnight?

[12:42] Kate Reinders: Yes. Where was the gradual what ha what happened to all the in-betweens? It was like, yes, we're young, young, young, and all of a sudden, old I mean, for me, oldest, oldest by a lot. I mean, Tim Fetterly and I joke that the couple of those kids could be ours. Like if he had knocked me up when we did Gypsy together, then Olivia Rodrigo is our baby. Well, and Andrew Barth Feldman and Roman Banks were both on your show.

[13:08] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[13:09] Kate Reinders: I did Evan Hansen with them. I was the mu and I was the mother. Right? I mean, I stood by for the moms. And so, like, going on, I was like, oh, I guess I could have a 16-year-old child. Like this. No, and the worst part is when you do the math, and it doesn't mean you had your kid really young. It means you had them at a very acceptable age. Or even later.

[13:31] Cara Cooper: Right.

[13:31] Kate Reinders: And they could still and then you're like, oh, got it. Well, hey, you guys, I was a geriatric pregnancy.

[13:37] Cara Cooper: Oh, my second one.

[13:39] Kate Reinders: Don't worry. Tell us about that. Like, how was that? I wonder, and Cara, you could talk to it too, because I was not. I was in my early 30s, but when they'd say that word to you, when they say, Oh, and so you're a geriatric pregnancy, and you're like, Oh, great, this sounds amazing. So I'm really old.

[13:57] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[13:57] Kate Reinders: Well, I mean, there you go, right? Like, you're like, uh, thank you for truth and m just reality in my face on and on the paper, but thank you, insurance for paying for things.

[14:07] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[14:07] Kate Reinders: Um, yeah, right. So there are perks to being an old mama, but um, no, I think it's also interesting because when you're in New York, you like we would still be young, acceptable aged mothers. But here in Salt Lake, I see women at the zoo that look my age and then they say smile for grandma.

[14:30] Cara Cooper: Right.

[14:30] Kate Reinders: And I'm like, mm-hmm. Yep. Correct. Yep. All right. Um no, yeah, no, no, the geriatric pregnancy thing, you're right. I think though that being an actor actually has prepared us for lots of things like this that we have to laugh at or we would just cry. So I uh tried to embrace it and laugh. And also I mean I like I said before, I thought I wouldn't get pregnant so fast because that was one of the reasons. And then joke was on me.

[14:56] Cara Cooper: So were you? I'm old, I won't get pre Whoa.

[14:59] Kate Reinders: Well, and when you say that you you was it were you trying to get pregnant? I mean maybe that's too personal, but like or was it an accident?

[15:07] Kate Reinders: No, I mean see that's the thing. Well, okay, so I had endometriosis when I was young. Actually, yes, and actually I got surgery for it when I was doing the Santa Music tour with the Bowens with the younger Bowens, got it all scraped out. So then I was on the and p keep in mind too, like late, late bloomer, like I was still a virgin then. Times changed. But um I so yeah, scrape out, virgin, and they had said like you might not be able to get pregnant because it's really bad. I was like, gotcha. Then on the pill for a million years. I froze my eggs when I was thirty-four, um, in LA. So I've got some eggs over in Beverly Hills, if anybody needs any.

[15:46] Kate Reinders: And but no, but that was another thing. My eggs, one of my ovaries, like didn't ha like had like one follicle. And then the other one had like six fall, whatever, and they kept so I did like a couple months of those crazy shots that oh, have you guys ever done the hormone?

[16:01] Cara Cooper: No, I've heard of that.

[16:04] Kate Reinders: It's uh it's not it talk about getting in touch with your emotions, except they're not real. They're like I was like, I'm going to push everyone down the stairs and then throw myself after you, but kill, kill, die, die. Like it was awful. Um, but yeah, so I only got a couple eggs, so they were like, you know, I was one of the ovaries didn't work, and anyway, but Luke was clearly hiding around a corner. He clearly wanted to be here.

[16:32] Kate Reinders: And you guys, the psychic told me back in 2012, which I had forgotten, but she had told me that I would have a son, and I totally was like, No, she doesn't know what she's talking about. Well, clearly she's full of crap, like terrible psychic. And she also said she also predicted my High School Musical job because she said I would she was like, I see you sitting behind a desk and it but and you're surrounded by cameras, so I think it's like a TV show, but you're behind a desk and you're like a judge, but but it's like for Broadway things, and now I'm thinking, okay, lady, you thought I was gonna have a son, and you're seeing me being a judge for like an American Idol Broadway, like nobody's at there's no way. Like a lady, you're terrible.

[17:15] Kate Reinders: And then um, but yeah, and then she said, but it won't be here or new it'll be somewhere else. It'll be somewhere far away. So I was like, London, okay, London American Idol for Broadway, mm mm, no way in hell. But then it wasn't until Kevin Cahun reminded me of it this past year. He was like, I remember, you know, the angel Kendra. That's she's not a psychic, she channels an angel. Okay. So but can I get her now?

[17:38] Cara Cooper: I know, right?

[17:40] Kate Reinders: Seriously. No, I was like, Kevin, find the recording of that session because I need to know everything she said. But yeah, so um, what was my point? Sorry, it should but it blew my mind when I was like, Oh yeah, she sort of saw this job, but she also saw Luke. But she also also said that there could be another child if I decided yes or no, like another child. But now, I guess we don't need to sit here talking about what about the other children. Do we try to have them or not? But all I know is one's a lot.

[18:13] Cara Cooper: How wait, Kara, how many do you guys have?

[18:15] Cara Cooper: We have two.

[18:16] Kate Reinders: You only okay, you have two. Yeah. I knew that. I wasn't sure if there like was another pandemic baby that popped up.

[18:21] Cara Cooper: Oh no.

[18:22] Kate Reinders: Uh yeah, we have our hands full. But how do you feel about the two? Because you know how people are like, well, one's changes your life, and two, and then people are like, changes it even more. You know, it's not like it's an easy add-on, right?

[18:36] Cara Cooper: It isn't, it definitely isn't. I I knew for me that it I always wanted to have two, so it like wasn't a hard decision for me to make.

[18:43] Kate Reinders: Uh-huh.

[18:43] Cara Cooper: Um, it definitely like rounds us out in a really wonderful way. Um, and it's cool to see how different they are, you know, which is also difficult because you gotta parent them in very different ways, you know. You're like one kind of parent for one and a different kind of parent for another.

[19:00] Kate Reinders: Um but uh it's joyful. It I mean, it's been it's been a we've had a really interesting journey in a lot of different ways. Our first has special needs, and so like having our second was almost a little bit of a healing for us, you know, kind of brought us towards more of a typical parenting experience.

[19:17] Cara Cooper: Um, and now it's about walking those two lines, you know, with two kids, and it's it's great. We're great with two, but I but it definitely keeps certain work um opportunities from being real for us, you know what I mean?

[19:34] Kate Reinders: I'm sure it definitely dictates what we can and cannot do.

[19:39] Cara Cooper: And how do you figure that out?

[19:41] Kate Reinders: I mean, it can't it it's been pretty clear so far, you know, and then like we both were working 2019. Um, and that was a big juggle, and we're out in the suburbs and everything. So that was like a little different, and then the shutdown happened, and neither of us were working. So that's been kind of wonderfully joyous, and it's oh right, you know.

[20:04] Cara Cooper: Um, so we'll see.

[20:05] Kate Reinders: We'll see how how the future plays out. But it's it was the right choice for us.

[20:09] Cara Cooper: But the psychic totally nailed it because you're because she knew you were gonna uh freeze your eggs.

[20:14] Kate Reinders: That's what she was saying. She's like, you might have another because she was saying like you have the possibility.

[20:19] Cara Cooper: Oh, you guys are so smart.

[20:22] Kate Reinders: I didn't even think of that. That's totally what that was.

[20:29] Cara Cooper: Yeah, there you have it. Who knows?

[20:32] Kate Reinders: You never know. Like a geriatric geriatric, what's the extreme geriatric L.

[20:39] Cara Cooper: Well, there was some woman I saw like a 60-year-old woman carried a baby for her gay son and his husband.

[20:46] Kate Reinders: Oh, right. How amazing is that too, yeah.

[20:49] Cara Cooper: Yeah, like I mean, and my my mother used to say that to me because I had endometriosis, I had uh fibroid tumors, I had like I had surgery to take those out, I had all the things.

[20:58] Kate Reinders: So I was also, you know, will I be able to? What's gonna happen? Whatever. And my mother used to say, I will carry your babies for you. I will carry them for you, just Sarah Rush.

[21:09] Cara Cooper: Sarah Rush, I know she's a lot, but I love it, I love it.

[21:15] Kate Reinders: We're gonna take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[21:24] Kate Reinders: Um, all right, let's get back to the biz and and motherhood and all of that.

[21:28] Cara Cooper: Oh, sure, sure.

[21:29] Kate Reinders: So you you went back to work when Luke was really young doing Beautiful. Is that correct?

[21:35] Cara Cooper: Uh yeah.

[21:36] Kate Reinders: I mean, I I uh when he was four months old, I think I stood by in Meteor Shower.

[21:42] Cara Cooper: Okay, right so I went back, but you know, not uh whatever. And it it was a good like putting your toe in, but still the schedule.

[21:51] Kate Reinders: It's the schedule, right?

[21:53] Cara Cooper: Yes, yes, and I do not have an answer for you guys for anyone who's listening who's like, how do I do this Broadway schedule with a baby thing? It's terrible.

[22:01] Kate Reinders: Okay, when I did Beautiful, he was a year and a couple months, and um, and Andrew was on tour Andrew's his dad, he was on tour with Come From Away, and so it was just me and Luke, and I now when I think back to when I was in Beautiful, I really don't remember much about it.

[22:23] Kate Reinders: Um, because he was waking in the night still, he was teething, and he would get up at 5:30. And there's no way, as you know, you can't be like, show I need you to be earlier, and I need you to be done sooner. It's like the fastest I could get home if I booked it and I caught the express and I all the things was what 11?

[22:44] Cara Cooper: Right.

[22:45] Kate Reinders: No. No, 1120, 11:30, eleven thirty probably.

[22:47] Cara Cooper: Something, yeah, yeah.

[22:49] Kate Reinders: And um, on the flip side, I once I started the show, I would nap between shows on two show days because I tried going home and then I had that like scary when I almost didn't make it a couple times, and I don't like that.

[23:02] Cara Cooper: And you're like, Oh, what's the point?

[23:03] Kate Reinders: I got here and I saw him for half an hour, and now I am having I'm losing years off my life because I think I'm gonna miss signing it. And so, um so I did get the naps, which then was like the most s you know, sleep I got during the week in a way. But then you're spending so much money um having somebody watch your kid for twelve hours, two days in a row.

[23:26] Cara Cooper: I mean, yeah, so I didn't know how to get on top of it.

[23:29] Kate Reinders: The only thing I can say is that it did come to an end, and then and then it's all and then it's worth it, right?

[23:37] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I was I love that you're like, I don't really remember much. It's like because you were just trying to survive.

[23:42] Kate Reinders: Yeah, no, I don't I don't remember much. And I do remember actually Ben Jacoby, I love him so much. He and I were like, you know, paired in the show, and and I he would look over and my eye would be twitching a little bit, and he'd be like, How much did you sleep last night? And I'd be like, I slept for a sub three hours.

[24:00] Cara Cooper: Right.

[24:01] Kate Reinders: It's good. It's good it was good, it wasn't bad. And he'd be like, I don't, I don't understand.

[24:07] Cara Cooper: But what can I do?

[24:09] Kate Reinders: Exactly It's uh it is what it is. We'll just do it.

[24:13] Cara Cooper: Yep, it is what it is.

[24:14] Kate Reinders: That's what when people are always they used to say that too, they'd be like, I don't know how you do it. I was like, I have no choice, like this is what this is what it is. And I will say, like, oh, my sweet Storm Lever, when I was doing Summer, one time, like I we had had like this conversation, and I got to work and she had bought she had texted me and she's like, I'm stopping at Starbucks. Would you like anything? I was like, Oh, you know, I mean, I'm okay, whatever. But I got there and she had got me a coffee, and she said, I said, That was so sweet of you to text me. And she goes, Well, it just dawned on me, you know, after we had that conversation, she's like, I come in on a matinee and I slept till 10, and I did all the and then I never thought about how you've already been up for like eight hours by the time we come to work, and like you've probably been to a dance class and like or to a birthday party in the park.

And she said, I just I really appreciate you. It was so sweet to have someone who was young in the company acknowledge that, you know, and recognize it because so often you come in from the matinee and they're like, Oh my god, good morning, good morning. Everybody says good morning, and you're like, double barrel.

[25:12] Cara Cooper: No, exactly.

[25:15] Kate Reinders: And we did it, I know we did it.

[25:17] Cara Cooper: We used to be like, I know for sure.

[25:19] Kate Reinders: Yeah, yeah. No, because I was like, Well, you guys are idiots having kids and being actors.

[25:25] Kate Reinders: Hi, humble pie. That's I mean, it's the truth of that is so deep. I never could have even imagined what this was like in before we did this. But it's a terrible idea, and yet it's still the best. It is, it is, it's still the best. And one thing this pandemic has made clear to me is I still want to go back to it. So, you know, it's like, bring it on, please. Get me out of here.

[25:50] Cara Cooper: Yes, I know. But see, but but on the flip side of that, it is true that staying home is maybe the harder work.

[26:00] Kate Reinders: Yes, but then don't you have the thing though that you feel guilty about then when you get to go to work? So then when you come home, you like do double the work.

[26:09] Cara Cooper: Yeah, and then really, when are we relaxing?

[26:12] Kate Reinders: Never. I mean, there's no such thing. I mean, Andrew just sort of like, Well, you got you like you're at work all day, like, but I know you get to like sit there, and I'm like, as I'm crying as I'm cramming the lines in my head, right?

[26:22] Cara Cooper: Right.

[26:22] Kate Reinders: Right and uh yeah, and normally, yeah, and I do bedtime and then I like quick try to learn my lines, but I'm tired, so then you're like trying to you know when you do the learn, but you're doing the sleep with half the one eye open, and you like just get in there while I'm half asleep.

[26:37] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah. Well, talk to us about that because we've talked about doing the eight shows a week, and will you talk to us about shooting, you know, now you've done both with a small child because and I it's not very common, I think. Like I think like Bonanti has done both when Ella Rose was smaller, but there aren't many of our moms or listeners who have had the the juxtaposition of both, yeah, who have had the contrast of like eight shows a week, having to be there at night, but being able to have your days free to hang out with your small child, versus now you're on a shooting schedule, so it's a little more normal, quote unquote normal, right? Um how has that been?

[27:16] Kate Reinders: Well, I guess it depends. I mean, I'm really lucky because I don't work. I mean, there are a couple episodes that I do a lot, and so then I did work every day, you know, for ten days straight or whatever, and then you're almost sort of basically just it's almost like you're going out of town sometimes, because if you're like if I'm up at five thirty to get out the door to get there by seven or whatever it is, um I'm sometimes I was gone before he woke up, and then depending on how long we went, um, I'd be home after he was in bed. However, because like I said, I don't work every day, or because we also have kids in the show, or we did, we we have like one minor left, but um sometimes we would stop and I would make it home for bedtime. Um but I do I think you guys, I think eight shows a week is harder. I think it's harder for lots of reasons.

[28:10] Um A, it's harder to afford the child care you need.

[28:17] Kate Reinders: B yeah you're there for morning and all day so you have to do that job then.

[28:24] Cara Cooper: Right.

[28:25] Kate Reinders: And then you and then if you miss out on bedtime I feel like that's sad because that's sometimes the sweetest most fun part and then you would have that time to yourself but you don't right so then um yeah because like going to work is like starting your second job because you are momming all day.

[28:40] Cara Cooper: Yeah and that takes all your energy and then you have to rev it up.

[28:44] Kate Reinders: Like when everyone else is coming home and relaxing you're like here I go let me I know put beat my face and and do a show.

[28:51] Cara Cooper: Yeah. Now I did not do eight shows a week with a school situation inserted in there. I feel like that would help. However you still have to get up. You have to get them ready. You have to get them there. It's the solid sleeping that never happens. It's it helps and it also hurts because you're not you don't actually ever see them.

[29:07] Kate Reinders: Like never I was gonna say that that too that too right so then at least at least on the shooting schedule I would have them days off full days off to be with him.

[29:17] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[29:17] Kate Reinders: Um yeah I don't know I think I think eight shows a week is just like especially when they're young it was like you can't sleep and then you're right and then when they're older you never see them.

[29:29] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[29:30] Kate Reinders: Because on the weekend they're home from school but you're at the theater.

[29:32] Cara Cooper: Yeah yeah.

[29:33] Kate Reinders: And and with a shooting schedule it's finite, right? Like you know the block of time. You know there's an end point. And look if you're I mean the only the the thing about a shooting schedule though is that you don't get your call time sometimes you know, till the night before.

[29:46] Cara Cooper: Right.

[29:46] Kate Reinders: So that can be tricky because you have to find someone like I had a nanny, thank God, that when I was here for season one and and luckily I could say, Oh, can you be here at five thirty tomorrow morning.

[29:58] Cara Cooper: Right.

[29:58] Kate Reinders: Right? Yeah. Um but if I you know I I interviewed a bunch of nannies for this year then that didn't happen anyway. Um but, you know, people who are like, I want nine to five and I'd say, okay, except I might need you at five thirty in the morning. So what am I gonna do?

[30:16] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[30:17] Kate Reinders: Well I do have to say like my parents my parents just moved out. Um for anyone who's been listening That's amazing. My parents moved out and we're moving to our own place again. Um but having them that's gonna be a huge transition for us because my mother moved in with us when Elliot was 18 months old.

[30:36] Kate Reinders: And so almost her entire life, I mean there was the first year and a half we were juggling show schedule or whatever, but ever since then I've just had built in childcare with regard to the ease of knowing that they were there. You know what I mean? Like you know, okay I know that if I have to leave at five thirty or if I want to go for a drink after the show, I don't have to run home to a sitter because my parents are already asleep and she's in bed and everything you know what I mean. So that's gonna be I mean I'm in for a rude awakening I I mean didn't you always have this too like when your friends didn't leave your hometown or whatever and and they're like how'd you go to the big city or and you're like Of course I had to go to the city.

[31:14] Kate Reinders: I ha why would I stay you know well of course you know you want to be in Brodo you gotta go to New York. But now I get it and I have a friend who go home for the summers to Michigan and I'd be like wow like God bless her for going home for like six weeks to Mich you know whatever. This, I mean, we're going for July. I'm like, let's go. Mom, dad, here we come. We're coming for all of July.

[31:36] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[31:36] Kate Reinders: That is the best idea ever.

[31:38] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[31:39] Kate Reinders: Yeah. It takes a minute. I understand. I understand why people stay close to their family because man, we need them.

[31:47] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[31:48] Kate Reinders: Yeah. For sure. No one's gonna take care of your you know, it's uh no one will take care of your child like your family, you know, like their grandparents.

[31:55] Cara Cooper: Um you can trust that they love them and will keep them safe mostly, you know.

[32:02] Kate Reinders: Well, hey, listen, we're still alive, right? That's what we've always exactly.

[32:06] Cara Cooper: Exactly.

[32:07] Kate Reinders: Yeah. Like, do we have issues and need therapy? Correct. Yes. How but I can't save my son from that. So why do I expect my parents to There you go? You've literally just transitioned us into what I was gonna ask about. Cause it's May is mental health awareness month.

[32:22] Cara Cooper: And so whatever we can do as a podcast to destigmatize any sort of help that we need in that regard, whether it's therapy, whether it's medication, whatever it is, like we just want to talk about it.

[32:35] Kate Reinders: So to that end, tell us about your journey with medical.

[32:40] Kate Reinders: Yes, I have yes, I have a very I have a very long journey. Um, I have been in therapy, I think for 15 years.

[32:48] Kate Reinders: Um yeah, yep. You know how you were like, no, it can't be that long because I was only oh right. Um so a very long time.

[32:56] Kate Reinders: And um, and I've been on medication and off it and on it, and um, you know, I feel like it's such a cliche, the trap of oh, I'm on well, people who are like happy pills, whatever they say, like they make you happy. Okay, no, my therapist is has explained to me that if you don't need them, they don't do anything. If you need them, it makes a huge difference. It's also not like putting things in you, it's just like keeping the chemicals from getting swept away. So it's actually just maintaining like your natural stuff that you need to hold on to.

[33:28] Kate Reinders: But I've also had things too where I have fallen in the trap, like I said, of oh I'm feeling great. I'm fine. So I probably don't need these anymore. So I'm gonna stop taking them because I don't need 'em. Which is so like I'm like who says that? I apparently me. It's just that's why pe people do it. Everybody does. But you know, I've had moments too where I have been like, but everything's great. I'm doing this great job. I'm in this great thing. Why do I feel that there's a cloud over my head and that I I just my thing is that I'm just very like I don't have any feelings and I don't care.

[34:01] Kate Reinders: But so yes, so I I've been on, I've been off. I think uh it's and therapy is great for all the different things that go on in our lives. I mean I started going to her of course years ago when I wasn't a mom yet and she really helped me with the with show business with the rejection with the with the uncertainty with the like going into an audition and the compare and despair and the you know oh shoot I should have worn that dress.

[34:30] Kate Reinders: Like I knew like w I wore the wrong thing. Look at all these people around who are amazing. Well there's no way I'll get like why I should just leave now and then no rewire your brain say look around and be like, no, all these people are amazing. And I am lucky and excited that I get to be invited to be here with them and we're all different in our own ways. And if it's our if it's mine, it's mine, if it's theirs, it's theirs and it's gonna be great.

[34:54] Kate Reinders: I mean I think being actresses together and being moms together are tricky, right? With the whole it's a competition, but we need to be a village. Um and but not even just our business. I mean, honestly, women and our culture. Women in general, right? They I mean we're pitted against each other constantly and made, you know, to think we have to live up to these ideal expectations. You know, I remember like on our very first episode, Larbinante was talking about that with like social media and the pressure of appearing a certain way.

[35:24] Kate Reinders: And she's like, and it also she's like it either feels like there's like this I'm running through a field, like a sepia tone field, you know, and everything's lovely, or it's like I hate my kids, they're awful. Like there was no in between. Like people are either like telling, but everything is in between. And and the truth of it is like no one's got their shit together. Nobody. Like they can they can curate the hell out of that Instagram feed, but nobody does, you know, and we're all on the same team.

[35:51] Cara Cooper: It's like it's hard.

[35:53] Kate Reinders: It is really hard though. I mean, I know Kara and I, but I mean, we've you know, we audition for things, and as actors, we are like, why did she get it? I mean, we do have that. Like, why is she having the success and I'm over here still toiling away? And when is it gonna be my turn? I mean, I think we all have that, even when you get to higher levels, you know.

[36:11] Kate Reinders: Every level, I'm sure there's more, you just it keeps happening. You think, oh, it's I'm gonna hit that and then I'll be set. And it's not true. There's never that moment.

[36:20] Cara Cooper: Well, I mean, that's what we're talking about, your dreams changing because they have to, otherwise, I mean, really, you're just gonna kill yourself.

[36:26] Kate Reinders: Because there's that. It's and and you can achieve that thing that you thought, oh, if I just get that, then I'm gonna be so happy. And then something else pops in.

[36:36] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[36:37] Kate Reinders: Yeah. And I think that's why, you know, that's why we started. Well, that's why we started Broadway Baby Mamas on Facebook, but that's also thought they do the podcast is amplifying the journey and the struggle and trying to build this community of um women and mothers particularly who uh to support one another because we need the help.

[36:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah, we need that.

[36:59] Kate Reinders: We are alone. I mean, this pandemic has shown us more than anything how shit on, to be honest, like mothers are, right? Like that has affected us disproportionately and egregiously with women of color, but like it is so real, and this past year has been beyond difficult for us.

[37:17] Kate Reinders: And um, and so I'm just I've I've been you know what when we have these conversations, this has been helpful for me. I mean, truthfully, it's like our therapy.

[37:26] Cara Cooper: It's our therapy, you know?

[37:26] Kate Reinders: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've it's so helpful. We've been taught for so long to not show any weakness, right? Like a a female can't show any weakness because we'll be that much more likely to reap the repercussions of that, which is why we need a space to talk about being weak and be it because it's our reality, you know.

[37:49] Cara Cooper: Oh, yeah, and also to uh to try to not even yeah, not that we're weak, just that we're human.

[37:56] Kate Reinders: Exactly. And honestly, like the thing is like we were saying, we do all the jobs, we do the things, we come home, we still want to do that complete job. We want to do all the jobs perfectly, we want to look gorgeous doing them all.

[38:08] Kate Reinders: We want our everything needs to look perfect, be perfect, social media perfect. Do we expect our husbands to be perfect like that? Do we expect our friends to be? Do we expect our kids to be? We don't expect our kids to be perfect. And actually that's one of the things that um that I've been trying to uh encourage myself to to remind myself about is that um you know, working with these younger kids on the show, I do see and of course social media for them is just a whole different world is a different world, so so different. Um, and while they're much more confident than than I was and um obviously self-aware and all that stuff I can see they're still insecure in the same ways we were and I don't want them to be and you know a couple of them I m all of them no not all of them but a few of them season two definitely getting thinner thinner thinner not you know not like the same stuff that we were dealing with at that age and but I still do it to myself I can't watch myself and not and not think like oh I look like too big in those jeans or something and then but but then I'm like well camera adds the pounds but but then I well wait a minute but wait I'm 40 but wait I and then I'm like no be real be a real person show those kids that it is okay for them to be real as well but man I have to remind myself about it.

[39:37] Cara Cooper: It's it's every day so hard so hard never never no and to for my son to be like oh I don't want to talk because I remember and my mom great mom not saying she's you know anything wrong but I remember being in ballet class and thinking I had fat thighs right like what in elementary school I mean a kid being like oh I have fat thighs like we have I don't like my thighs I don't like my thighs and then I see pictures of myself now and I'm like it looks like a normal kid there are no thighs I'm just a kid but it was because my mom didn't like her thighs.

[40:10] Kate Reinders: So it's like I try to watch myself to not put it on them, and then hopefully maybe I'll give myself a break.

[40:19] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[40:19] Kate Reinders: That makes sense.

[40:20] Cara Cooper: Absolutely.

[40:20] Kate Reinders: It's funny. Audrey McDonald talked to us a little bit about that because she has two daughters who are very far apart in age. And her older daughter actually said to her, Don't be that way towards yourself for Sally. She's like, because you were that way, and I witnessed that. So don't do it for her. Like, isn't that incredible? Like, what I know. Like, mind blowing up. But then can't she have a moment be like, I'm a good mom because look how awesome my kid is.

[40:48] Cara Cooper: Well, 1000%.

[40:50] Kate Reinders: But I mean, you know, you don't realize. You don't realize the things that come out of your mouth that affect your kids. You know, you're not speaking directly to them, but they hear it.

[40:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[40:59] Kate Reinders: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And you're and you're and the kids in your show, you know, who are the kids in my show. And actually, I I caught myself saying a couple things. And you know, it's and I know that that's how I deal with the fact that we were saying, like, the fact that I'm the old one now, is that I'll say, ha ha, wow, I'm the old one, you know, I'm the mom, whatever it is. But why does it have to be negative? Why am I making fun of myself?

[41:18] Cara Cooper: Right.

[41:21] Kate Reinders: Um, but but I have a couple of them have said, like, what are you talking about? That's fine. I mean, they're so cool, like, they don't shave their legs. You know, they don't wear bras, they don't care. I love that that's they're so cool. They don't shave their legs. I love it. I but but that's what I'm saying.

[41:36] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[41:41] Kate Reinders: They don't know. I mean, the brothers do. No. Um, no, but but that's the thing. They're like, they do whatever they love everyone. They and with um, we've had, you know, the sexual harassment, a couple of like the seminar meeting things, and wow. I'm sure you guys also maybe have had this revelation of the stuff that they're like, Well, I would never put up with that. No, no, that's terrible. And I'm like, Well, I haven't wait a minute. There was that time, and then that thing happened, and then there was that. Oh, and that. So it is, yeah, it's a different world.

[42:13] Cara Cooper: It is. There is an awakening with regard to autonomy, with regard to social justice. There is um, and it's it's ter it's to be honest, it's scary in a lot of ways, right? Just because I shouldn't say scary, that's not the right word, but we're all locked into the way things were, particularly when you're talking about like the comments people make in the theater or to you about our bodies or this or that, and we're just sort of brought up to be like, this is how it is. They can say those things, or that director can make that comment to me, and I'm just and of course it's normal, like it's okay that I cry. You know, I remember like I remember I did when I did Gypsy, um, I did the different one, not the one that Kate did, uh the next one, the next revival.

Instagram, yeah, exactly. But I but I remember Arthur Lawrence directed that one, and he had also directed the Time Daily one, and Jim Burkita was in both productions, and he talks about how like Arthur used to make people cry. And I have a friend that auditioned to replace me in that show, and she she was at the callback, and a girl came out of the room crying from her callback about something Arthur had said to her. Do you know what I mean? God rest us rest in peace, Arthur. But there were things that we were supposed to just ignore, and it was just the way it was, and that time is changing, and that generation is who's making it happen.

[43:29] Kate Reinders: Yes, absolutely. And I mean, and that's the thing too. I mean, and yes, Arthur Tuff, also James Pond. I mean we the list, right? Yeah, but but and they we shouldn't be defending them, but they also are from a different era, and I mean the era before theirs was even worse. So maybe they were like, I'm being amazing. I love women, and you're like, Yeah, except you just said that you like you just or you snapped my butt thong or whatever you just did.

[43:57] Cara Cooper: Well, can I tell you wait a funny I think that's a funny story, right? For a laugh. But when I had my call back for gypsy for Arthur, I was doing Let Me Entertain You. I was doing the last bit. I'd already done the the Louise before, and I was doing the final stuff. And I did Let Me Entertain You and I'm you know tipping around and doing whatever and beveling for my life and and I finished and he's sitting there, and at this point he was like 90 years old, and he's sitting behind the table, and he's so tiny, and he's like and I wait, I finish, I stop, and he goes, Well, you've obviously worked in Vegas. Uh oh. And I was like, ha ha no, I'm just really good at beveling. I don't I mean, I just it was something like stupid, but like I wish people could have seen y'all's faces when I said that line.

Because literally your jaws were like there was silence because your jaws were on the floor. But that's what he said to me, like in the callback, you know, and and you just laugh it off, you know because I'm acting like a hooker. I mean, isn't that part of the thing? But you know, it's just it's I'm an actress. Hello.

[45:00] Cara Cooper: Right, right.

[45:01] Kate Reinders: I was like, actually, no, I've never worked in Vegas. Thanks so much. And nothing against you ladies that do. No, no judgment.

[45:06] Cara Cooper: No, no, no judgment.

[45:08] Kate Reinders: No, it is hot. It is hot. Anyway, maybe I'll cut that story.

[45:12] Cara Cooper: No, no, don't.

[45:15] Kate Reinders: No, that but that's my point, is that we were so used to hearing it and so used to brushing it off that I didn't even I was the first one to be like, oh no, no, nothing's ever been said that's inappropriate. And then I haven't, and then in those seminars, I think, oh wait, wait, oh yeah, that one that time and then or that thing, and then that thing, and and yeah, and who knows how it all affects us.

[45:39] Cara Cooper: Yeah, it does it really does. I mean, it it it really it's ingrained. Someone said something to me when I was in high school and it has I actually say it has affected me to the point where I realized once I was like, I wonder what my career would be like if I didn't let that statement in because it so greatly affected how I see myself in this business.

[46:00] Kate Reinders: And can you tell us what it is or do you no well yeah, it's just and it's not even like that big a deal, but like I had this teacher who you know, he was not very nice, but he was like, I was singing something and and he said, You're not a soprano, don't ever try to be one. He's like, stick to belting, you know. And in actuality, I am a soprano, like I'm a mezzo and I can sing that, but he is so in my head that I didn't realize just how much until I remember auditioning for King and I to be the standby for Kelly O'Hara. And I remember thinking, like, this is my gig. I can do this. This is an easy thing, it's not even that high. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is fine, I can do it. And I went in and I got I started thinking about him.

Still 20 years later, thinking and I got so nervous that I ended up like belting. Belting hello, young lover. Which is not correct for those of you who aren't musical theater people. That's not correct. And I thought, I just did my I sabotage myself. I allowed this man 20 years ago to say this to me, and it has stayed inside my body. And to this day, I never say I'm a soprano. I always say, Oh, I'm a I'm a belter, I'm a mezzo belter, you know, I'm not Meanwhile I've understudied Laura Bonante and I I understudied the role of Sarah Brown and guys and you know what I mean, like clearly I have the I have those skills, but I can't I can't do I'm not I can't do them when I when I am called upon in these moments of high stress and anxiety.

[47:23] Cara Cooper: I hear that man's voice in my head and I and I thought, you know, like what would my career have been like if I didn't let him have that power.

[47:23] Kate Reinders: Yeah I'm here to tell you I have belted so many Soprano songs in auditions you like practice them and you're like this is great and then you walk in the room and you're like what just came out of my mind because you're so nervous and then and then you just like go to what you know and you like your breath is gone and you're just belting. It's just I mean listen you guys it's l it's liter I literally choke. Like I go in and I choke but like I literally choke where I'm like why do we do what we do why do we do well I well to that in as we start to wrap up are you coming back to Broadway anytime soon Kate now that Broadway is coming back.

[47:52] Cara Cooper: Now that Broadway is coming back.

[48:11] Kate Reinders: Oh yeah Broadway is definitely coming back and yeah it's so funny right listen I've been I wanted to be on Broadway since I knew what it was right since I was 10, 12, whatever it was and um but isn't it funny I feel like it wasn't until I got this show that it was like Broadway's Kate Reinders and I was like what what do you mean I'm Broadway's Kate Reinders? I want to be Broadway's Kate Reinders. So yeah I I am dying to be Broadway's Kate Reinders.

[48:39] Cara Cooper: Um you're always Broadway's Kate Reinders let me be on it.

[48:43] Kate Reinders: Yeah yeah no yeah I you know what I love that that you're on a television show and they say Broadway's Kate Reinders because so often it's so hard for those of us in the theater world to transition or have a solid career on the other side right on camera and in that arena and so I love it. I love if you were always Broadway's key riders, but.

[49:03] Cara Cooper: Well actually, what's it's funny is actually a couple of the boys in the show who call me Broadway's Kate Reinders. Like it's you know, it's a joke nickname. And um, but the best part, speaking of like aging us and making us feel old, is you know, one of them was like, I saw you in Wicked. I saw you in Glinda as Glenda in Wicked when I was six.

[49:21] Kate Reinders: Yeah. Ouch.

[49:24] Cara Cooper: Um, no, no, I mean that's the point is that I say it as a joke because um all I want to be is Broadway's Kate Reinders, is my point. Um, but really I'll be anyone who will hire me's anything.

[49:37] Kate Reinders: And actually.

[49:40] Cara Cooper: Yep.

[49:41] Kate Reinders: Exactly.

[49:42] Cara Cooper: Luke's mom.

[49:43] Kate Reinders: I'm Elliot's mom.

[49:44] Cara Cooper: I'm Elon and Yep, exactly. We wear it proudly, right?

[49:48] Kate Reinders: Oh my gosh. Kate, this has been so fun.

[49:51] Cara Cooper: This is literally You guys, can we do this every week?

[49:54] Kate Reinders: That that would be fun because this is like one of those therapy kiki episodes where it's just like, you know, yeah, chatting with our girlfriend. It's awesome. Thank you so much for coming.

[50:04] Kate Reinders: Oh, thank you, you guys. And uh and we can't wait to see season two of high school musical, the musical, the series that is.

[50:12] Cara Cooper: Yeah, look for the lady.

[50:16] Kate Reinders: I'll up for the lady.

[50:20] Cara Cooper: Bye.

[50:25] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Rachel Spencer Hewitt for our fabulous graphic. Kristen Anderson Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward Weber for our awesome theme song. Our producers Dori Berinstein, Alan Seales, and of course the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.