This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jessica Rush: As our beloved Broadway community approaches a return, we are following four working artist mothers from both sides of the table and across diverse worlds as they emerge from this time of togetherness with their children.

[0:13] Cara Cooper: Two became pregnant and gave birth in the 17 months since the shutdown, while the other two paused the eight-show a week mom life juggle and are having to readapt to time away from their sweet babes, knowing now just how precious the moments with them are.

[0:28] Jessica Rush: Tony nominee Elizabeth Stanley, Moulin Rouge's Corey Petinod, choreographer Lauren Lataro, and Come From Away's Pearl Son share their stories in our special four-part miniseries, Returning Reborn: The Rebirth of the Broadway Mom.

[0:45] Jessica Rush: Hi everyone.

[0:46] Cara Cooper: Thanks so much for tuning in to the season three premiere of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:51] Jessica Rush: Can you believe it?

[0:52] Cara Cooper: I can't believe it.

[0:54] Jessica Rush: Here we are.

[0:55] Cara Cooper: We are here.

[0:56] Jessica Rush: We made it through, and another season is here.

[0:59] Jessica Rush: I'm Jessica Rush.

[1:00] Cara Cooper: And I'm Cara Cooper.

[1:02] Jessica Rush: And this week's guest earned herself a Tony nomination for starring in Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill, which she was performing eight times a week before COVID-19 hit.

[1:12] Jessica Rush: Her life has taken quite a turn in the past year and a half as she is weeks away from welcoming her first child.

[1:18] Cara Cooper: Hashtag pandemic baby.

[1:21] Jessica Rush: They're everywhere.

[1:22] Cara Cooper: She shares not only her thoughts on social media and the role her show plays in the social landscape of our industry, but also how she is advocating for herself as a new mother returning to the stage.

[1:33] Jessica Rush: Here is our episode with Elizabeth Stanley.

[2:02] Cara Cooper: Good morning, Elizabeth.

[2:04] Jessica Rush: Welcome.

[2:07] Elizabeth Stanley: I should have warmed up first.

[2:09] Cara Cooper: Girl, tell me about it.

[2:11] Jessica Rush: We are so happy to have you here.

[2:13] Cara Cooper: We, y'all, listeners, those of you who've been with us, this is the very first episode we're recording of our third season.

[2:20] Elizabeth Stanley: Hello.

[2:21] Cara Cooper: Amazing.

[2:22] Jessica Rush: It's crazy.

[2:23] Cara Cooper: What is this, like 78 or something?

[2:25] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[2:25] Cara Cooper: I don't even know.

[2:26] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[2:26] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[2:26] Jessica Rush: Oh my gosh.

[2:27] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[2:28] Jessica Rush: A lot of episodes.

[2:29] Cara Cooper: Really cool.

[2:29] Jessica Rush: Thanks.

[2:30] Cara Cooper: Thank you.

[2:30] Jessica Rush: Um, welcome to you, Elizabeth Stanley.

[2:34] Cara Cooper: Tony nominated.

[2:35] Jessica Rush: Um, fabulous.

[2:36] Cara Cooper: Expectant mama like any day now, right?

[2:39] Elizabeth Stanley: Are we in the final countdown?

[2:41] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[2:41] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[2:43] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, we're there.

[2:45] Cara Cooper: Well, and I happen to say, I have to say, I noticed that you emailed us at 3:30 this morning.

[2:50] Elizabeth Stanley: Uh-huh.

[2:50] Cara Cooper: So clearly, the like pregnancy insomnia is happening.

[2:55] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[2:55] Cara Cooper: It's real, right?

[2:57] Elizabeth Stanley: It is so real. I know the last couple nights I've woken up around three and then just kind of can't get back to sleep for two or three hours. And so I was like, well.

[3:07] Elizabeth Stanley: Yep, here we are. I read so many books when I was pregnant. Like in the middle of the night, just like plowed through books because I never slept.

[3:15] Cara Cooper: Isn't that yeah, I guess it's just preparing me for what's ahead.

[3:19] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, I know. People are always like, try to catch up on your sleep, and you're like, but I'm already not sleeping. And then it's and then it's not gonna get better.

[3:28] Cara Cooper: Here's the difference. You, your baby is keeping you up when the baby arrives, right?

[3:34] Elizabeth Stanley: Right. By any chance you get to sleep, you are so tired. It's not insomnia. You can fall asleep anywhere. Like when I would be in the dressing room and I had an infant at home, I would be asleep underneath the tabletop, like just passed out in seconds. It didn't matter.

[3:48] Cara Cooper: I'm looking forward to that.

[3:50] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. So besides the insomnia, how are you feeling? How is it? We don't often talk to pregnant women on it. Like usually the baby has arrived. So tell us how you're feeling.

[4:02] Elizabeth Stanley: I'm feeling really good, actually. Knock on wood. I mean, you know, some things physically are like a little bit harder, like getting up off the couch. But um, but I feel good. I feel like I'm in this like rage nesting zone where I'm like getting stuff done. And we moved this summer, but um it's just taken us for a lot of reasons, a lot of time to kind of get situated. And so I feel like now I'm motivated to be like, I'm gonna organize that closet, and I'm gonna like we're gonna go sofa shopping later today, you know, just stuff like that.

[4:11] Elizabeth Stanley: Um but I feel good. I've turned that corner where I'm like starting to feel sad that I'm not gonna be pregnant anymore. You know, which is such a weird thing, but it's it's so it's such a special, unique time, and I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity in this lifetime to carry a child and um to experience that and um just that intimacy that you have with like another being in your body. You know, it's I mean, it feels like it's been a long time, but it's also so brief. Um yeah, so I've started being like, oh, that's almost done.

[5:19] Cara Cooper: Yeah, it's what it's so weird to think about as you're talking about it. I mean, shortly after you have the baby, you'll still feel like you're gonna feel a kick or some sort of flutter. And I always remember being like, I'll never forget what that feels like. But now sitting here, I cannot really replicate that in my body. Like mentally, I can remember it, but I don't have the physical memory of it. So it's so great that you're really keen into it while you're there. Cause it is, it's magical.

[5:47] Elizabeth Stanley: Well, and I remember sitting there saying to myself out loud, remember what this feels like. Because Kara had told me to like take it in because she was before me. And I was like, remember what this feels like. And it's true, you think you'll never forget, and then and then you're seven years in and you don't remember, you know, or like two years in. I mean, it's like you can't even, it's true, there's nothing like it. And so it is a special time.

[6:11] Cara Cooper: Did you always know this was something that you wanted for yourself, Elizabeth? Or is this I don't know.

[6:15] Elizabeth Stanley: It's kind of like I feel like I rode the wave of like wanting it and not wanting it. Um I think for sure when I was like a teenager and in my 20s, I thought, like, oh yeah, I'll be a mom. And then when I was still in my 30s and I was single, I started being like, I don't know, it might not be. And like what would what does that look like? And um, and also I think when you're pursuing the arts, it's like you see so many different ways of making a life that are meaningful. And you know, I worked with people that were parents and people that weren't, and I saw all the different ways that people did it, and some of it looked awesome, and some of it looked like, oh gosh, I don't want to do that. Um, which is probably true in every line of work, honestly.

But uh, I do feel like being a performing artist is like a unique challenge. Um, and so I don't know, somewhere in my mid-30s, I would really like I wanted, I want to still have that option. I don't want to be a single parent, but like, so I froze my eggs like in my I don't know, it was in my late 30s. Um, not because I was like, I must have a child. I was still kind of like okay if I didn't, but I just was like, I want to have that option. Like if I meet someone later and we both want that, I just want that to be an option.

[7:46] Elizabeth Stanley: Um then as I like was approaching 40, I was like, I think I'm good. Like, I don't know that I need to do that anymore. And I really started getting really excited about like just the different ways that you can have a really full life without kids. Um, because I think for the longest time I was afraid of like I won't know the full life experience if I don't become a mother. There's something I'm gonna be missing that everyone else knows, and like my life won't be as deep or as meaningful. Um I think it was really healthy for me that I finally turned the corner on that and was like, no, you can do lots of things with a life, you know. Absolutely is child free.

[8:31] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but then when I met Charlie, he was like, I mean, it was kind of inappropriate, but it was just because of my age. Like we talked about it, like maybe on like the second date, you know. And he's younger than me, and he was like, Well, I've kind of and also because being a guy, he was like, Well, I just assumed I would I would be a dad. But I'm okay if I'm not, you know, like that that could be okay. Um, which was awesome and enabled us then to like really, I think, green light I love um and so then I think doing Jagged Little Pill was uh kind of always on the horizon um when I met him and then it it became a Broadway show within the time that we were together and um and we kind of thought like well I'll do the show for a year and we'll just we'll see what's happening.

We'll see if like there are other career things that were like that feels more like the life we want to take um or if we're like no this feels good maybe I'll sign on for another year if that's an option and you know if the show is still running you know how you just never know.

[9:43] Elizabeth Stanley: Never know. And maybe like then we would try and get pregnant. We were just kind of like we'll see so then I think when it was the pandemic then COVID hit.

[9:54] Jessica Rush: Yeah so it just like really changed everything up which at first was really stressful to me in terms of the kid thing because I felt like wait I had a pretty like moderate plan in place but this is really messing with it and I don't I'm not of the age where I have like years to spare you know it's not like wait we'll just wait till everything resumes and then we'll put this plan back in place you know um and uh and also just it was a really you know career high for me that I wasn't willing to just be like, ah, whatever.

[10:33] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[10:34] Jessica Rush: Um, so but the longer it pressed on, um, I kind of was like, it just feels like we should try and see what happens. And there's so much uncertainty.

[10:48] Elizabeth Stanley: Um and so then we just were kind of lucky and we ended up getting pregnant. I mean, it took us, you know, several months, but so we didn't have to use my frozen eggs or anything, which I was glad just because um it's really expensive.

[11:01] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[11:02] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. I mean, truth of the matter is.

[11:05] Jessica Rush: And our industry's been shut down for a year and a half.

[11:08] Cara Cooper: So yeah.

[11:09] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[11:10] Jessica Rush: Oh my gosh. That was a long answer.

[11:12] Cara Cooper: But no, no.

[11:14] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, it almost feels like the pandemic put like um put the pressure on in a lot of ways to make the decision.

[11:20] Jessica Rush: You've probably felt that way, right?

[11:23] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, I mean, it was just like, are you gonna do it now? Do you want to? Or otherwise you're gonna be like the oldest mom on the playground.

[11:33] Cara Cooper: I mean, you kind of already are, but like, you know, um You're not, you're not, just know that you're not.

[11:40] Jessica Rush: In New York, it doesn't feel so bad, right?

[11:42] Elizabeth Stanley: Right, exactly.

[11:43] Cara Cooper: And that's that's the nice thing.

[11:44] Elizabeth Stanley: No, I think that like I so many people I've seen in our business have gotten pregnant in this time. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I think it really there's so much of what we do is so uncertain, and there's so much instability, and who knows what's gonna happen when you'll book a show.

[12:01] Jessica Rush: There's no right time, right?

[12:02] Elizabeth Stanley: It's like you just sort of have to go. I remember my agent saying to me, the business will always be here. It will always be here. But there's still that in the back of your head, like, but there's things happening, and I'm taking myself out of it.

[12:16] Jessica Rush: So when nothing was happening, it was like, and I can imagine, you know, you would the nominations hadn't come out yet, but like word on the street was, you know, Elizabeth Stanley's gonna get a Tony Nom for Jagged Little Pill. Like this was what was, you know, I knew that was happening. We all knew, and so you had to have known.

[12:33] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean in your heart of hearts.

[12:35] Jessica Rush: And it's like, when is it coming back? Do I have time? Could I do this? But at the same time, it sort of feels like the perfect moment to try to get pregnant because there was no pressure to return to work. There was no pressure to get yourself back. There was no pressure to or to feel as though you were missing out on auditions or whatever's coming up.

[12:59] Elizabeth Stanley: Um so I've I I've noticed.

[13:02] Jessica Rush: I mean, I I get it. I totally get it. I mean, I remember talking to Kara, and Kara was like, Jess, you could have you could get pregnant and have a baby by the time we go back to work. And now, like Casey Levy's done that, you're doing that. Do you know what I mean? Like people and people who I think we're only gonna have one kid, you know, we're like, well, I mean, why not? Let's go for it. And then lo and behold, yeah, exactly.

[13:27] Elizabeth Stanley: So I think that like in a lot of ways, I mean, this is the only path you know, you don't know what the other one would have been like, you know, so it's like to compare the two, but I would think that having this um space and time and being able to enjoy your pregnancy, hopefully, um, and really bask in it has been lovely.

[13:49] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, I I feel grateful that I didn't have a lot of those stressors that you're talking about of like just the the pressures that we put upon ourselves and that are you know, specifically challenging, I think in our industry, like absolutely, even just the pressure of doing a show, becoming pregnant, and then being like, How long am I gonna be able to do the show until I can no longer do it you know that's like a daily question I know that I uh had to go through with both my pregnancies you know am I gonna make it to the time I said I was gonna make it to you know so it's lovely but you do have the the you have your return date yeah um and it is not long after you are supposed to have your baby so how are you feeling about we just finished kind of those conversations and negotiations and um I have to say the the show is really being awesome and they're letting me come back whenever I feel ready because I don't this is maybe for editing or not I don't because I don't know if she's public about my my understudy is also pregnant.

[15:06] Elizabeth Stanley: Yes, I knew that because Rob is in my show and Rob posted it in our group. I don't know if he's like, we'll see when we tweet this episode out. So she's having a baby a couple of months after me, and you know, I wrote the team, like the creative team and the producers, an email, I don't know, like in the spring when I was doing my first public performance, and I was like, I'm showing, they're gonna see. I just want everyone to know what's up, you know? And I was like, this is something we're really excited about, and I want to share it with you, but I also want you to know like the show is a different kind of baby for me, and I care about it too.

[15:53] Elizabeth Stanley: And I'm really inspired by basically everyone on the email thread, with the exception of maybe one or two, is a working parent, you know, working artist parent.

[16:02] Cara Cooper: Well, yeah, you've got like Diane Paulus and Alanis Morissette, and you know, there are a lot of those mothers on there.

[16:09] Elizabeth Stanley: And like Tom Kitt and Diablo Cody, and like they all have multiple kids, you know what I mean? Like that's the thing that's so thrilling. And so I felt from the beginning, I felt like I would be supported and I could share my news with them, which was really nice.

[16:16] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, and so I just was like, I don't know what it's gonna look like. I don't know what to expect. I think no one knows. I've seen it change people drastically, but I think at this point in time, I am hoping that I will like want to be a working mom, you know. Um, and everyone wrote back and was just like, anything you need, like we are here for you, and it was great. Um, but then it comes down to actually discussing the logistics, which is harder because it's also like they're running a business, and um, and so I just, you know, at first I was like, yeah, I'm gonna rally, like sure, I can probably come to like a Zoom rehearsal or I can, you know, I can, and then like as it's gotten closer, I'm just like, I don't want to do that. Like I just, this is probably the only baby I'll have, and I don't want to not be present for like these.

[17:26] Cara Cooper: Good for you.

[17:28] Elizabeth Stanley: As part of her life.

[17:29] Cara Cooper: No. Absolutely. Uh, it's so hard to do that, but it's so amazing that you listen to your gut, you know, just saying, like, I want to be here for this.

[17:37] Elizabeth Stanley: And it's different for everybody, right? And you know, I asked so many people and I got lots of advice from people. And um, Rita Kitt, Tom's wife, actually, I was like doing a Zoom with him and she was in the background. She's like, do you want my advice? And I was like, yes. I love Rita.

[17:55] Elizabeth Stanley: I know she's just the best. But she was like, you should set yourself up so that you can come back. Like, you know, when you're ready, rather than like being like, no, I'm not coming back for six months or whatever it is, and then feeling like, oh, I could be there. I actually want to be there. You know, so she's like, if you can, like set it up so that you can go back when you're ready. Um, and so I'm really grateful that that is what's happening. So they're hiring someone who will, I think, open the show and then saying, like, when I feel ready, like come back and we're gonna share the role for a few months, like to the end of the year, probably.

[18:37] Elizabeth Stanley: And then, um, come January, I'm gonna go back in like full time, but even my full time is just gonna be six instead of eight, which I'm so grateful for.

[18:47] Cara Cooper: That's oh my god.

[18:48] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, I fought hard for it, you know. It wasn't easily won. Um, because that wasn't what I had before, but I just was like, I just heard so many people talk about the eight being hard. And I know how hard eight is, even not as a mom. Um, and just, you know, I just was like, this is an extraordinary circumstance. Like my baby will not even be a year old. Like it might be, I might be able to be like, I'm gonna rally. If I don't know, if she were one and a half years, well, or if you were in the ensemble, to be honest, like that's a different experience than leading a show.

[19:30] Cara Cooper: You are starring in the show, you are the mother, you are a grounding force within the production, and that carries a weight in and of itself as well, you know.

[19:40] Elizabeth Stanley: And now that you've been Tony nominated, that's part of it too. That's a thing. It's like Tony nominee Elizabeth Stanley, you know.

[19:47] Cara Cooper: It's like the—

[19:47] Elizabeth Stanley: I know, I know. I mean, I hate to put it on, but it's true. Like it's different for you to go back to eight shows a week versus like me going back to Jersey Boys eight times a week when Elliot was, you know what I mean? Like our job was not as—

[20:03] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[20:05] Elizabeth Stanley: I feel like even so though, this needs to be. I want your journey to be chronicled and shouted from the rooftops because this is something that we've been fighting for is this job sharing kind of opportunity for parents in our industry. They do it overseas, um, in London. They let parents job share on shows, and so they can get their health insurance weeks. And actually, it ends up behooving the show in the long run because you don't have someone calling out last minute because their kid is sick or whatever. They have, you know, the coverage and the parents are in the mental space to do the job that they have to do, whether it's four shows a week or six shows a week, but not the full eight. You know, there's a lot of validity and worth to it.

[20:42] Cara Cooper: So I'm sure so curious, yeah.

[20:44] Elizabeth Stanley: I'm so curious to see what your, you know, journey through it is and hopefully it gets a little bit of traction with the industry. Yeah, so I mean, and I think so much of it does come from the fact though, as well, that so many on the team are parents because they understand the struggle and they know what it's like. Because when you have a creative team that don't have children, if there's no one there, they don't un—they can't understand, no one can understand until they're in it, you know. And so they're usually not as amenable to making those kind of concessions, right?

[21:13] Elizabeth Stanley: And um, yeah, no, I just for the record I'm all for job share. I just mean like the actual physicality of the job is easier, like but mentally going back to work and missing out on this time, that's hard on anybody.

[21:34] Cara Cooper: Well, and that's what I was explaining when I was sort of pleading my case. I was just like, I was like, look, I know how to work hard. Like I'm, you know, we got that. I think every actor does, like we hustle, right? And I was like, you know, I didn't call out from the show at all until I had COVID, you know what I mean? Like, and even then I was like, I'm coming back because I didn't know that's what it was, right? So I was like, if it was just about me and like recovering from a birth process, like I could do it, but sh— is that really the healthy move to make? Probably not. But also I was just like, it's about what my kid needs, and when they're that young, like need to be by me, like yeah, it's just like that's there. You can't change that.

[22:22] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, well, and I think these are the conversations that ha—that are happening more and more, right? I mean, they're talking about just within the normal workforce as well. There's the great resignation that they're calling it because people are realizing what I was doing before was not working. It was not healthy, it was not sustainable, um, ultimately without detriment to our bodies and our mental health. And um, and I think that these moments are gonna happen more and more. And I said this on another episode, but it was like if we all stick together, the producers have to make changes. They have to start to recognize these things. Um, and it does come from having people in charge and in positions of power, mainly women, I do have to say.

Like here, holla for Tom Kitt, but I know that it has so much to do about having women in the positions of power and women who are mothers specifically because they understand it and they recognize um how important it is. And so the more we can speak up and the more we can ask for what we need, the more hopefully some change will start to occur.

[23:30] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[23:30] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, I feel so inspired by that. Just I think right now, as we're recording this, the Olympics are happening, right? And I'm just like, yeah. You know, like weeks before I had this kind of negotiation conversation with the folks at Jagged, um, I was reading an article about Olympian moms and how they were like trying to figure it out, trying to help each other. And you know, it was, I was like, yeah.

[23:55] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's I think one of the best parts of this, you know, past year and a half of mostly what's been hard for so many people, well, for everyone in a different way, but is that people are like, hmm, I'm not gonna not say what I need anymore.

[24:18] Cara Cooper: Exactly.

[24:19] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, it's like I've been saying we need to start the hat like hashtag that you're pulling a Simone Biles, like you are standing up for what it is that you need in this moment. And I think as we're returning from this time, I've found that for myself. Like, I no longer want to do the things that like I would normally say yes to just because it's like, oh well, I should, I should do it. It's like, is it gonna serve me? Is it gonna serve my life? Is it gonna serve my family? Is it gonna feed me? And that's gonna be as you travel down this path of motherhood. That's I think one of the hardest things to come to terms with because you are constantly worried about the needs of your child. And at some point, your needs and your child's needs have to have kind of the same importance.

[25:06] Elizabeth Stanley: And in the beginning, it's not gonna, it's gonna be really hard. You are not gonna feel that way. At least that was for me, and I still majorly struggle with it, Jessica does too. I mean, like you're constantly weighing your self-preservation against what might be good for your kid, you know. So knowing that moving forward, you're, you mean you're already well on your way on your path. I bowed down to your ability to recognize that because I certainly didn't um early on.

[25:36] Cara Cooper: Well, hashtag old mom, you know.

[25:38] Elizabeth Stanley: I've like the—I do feel like it's lucky that I've watched so many, you know, friends and colleagues before me um just go through the process and the struggles and and be honest about it with me. I feel like I've had really honest friends have been like this shit's hard. You know, I love it, but like this part is not a mommy blog.

[26:02] Cara Cooper: No, no, no.

[26:04] Elizabeth Stanley: But luckily, also your bestie is Carrie Anderson.

[26:07] Cara Cooper: Yeah, who we had on as well.

[26:10] Elizabeth Stanley: She's amazing, so amazing, a therapist and like, you know, actor turned therapist. And and so I'm sure she's—and she's a mom, obviously. Check out her episode, you guys. Um, but she probably has so much wisdom and is so helpful like along the journey for you. And it's great to just have this community, you know. It's just we are stronger together in all the ways. And I do think that the time is ripe for conversations to be happening.

[26:39] Cara Cooper: We're gonna take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[26:49] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, I want to sort of shift a little bit.

[26:52] Cara Cooper: Shift.

[26:53] Elizabeth Stanley: Shift. Um, I noticed, and I can edit this out if you decide this is something that's not supposed to be known, but I did notice some rings on fingers and some pictures on Instagram.

[27:07] Elizabeth Stanley: We did not get married.

[27:09] Cara Cooper: Oh no, everyone asks, did—because did you notice the ring on Charlie?

[27:14] Elizabeth Stanley: I did. I mean, I—and then I looked at yours and I could see there was a ring there, but it was mainly the fact that he had one that I was like, hmm.

[27:21] Elizabeth Stanley: Not anymore because I can't fit them on the hands. But um, we, uh, you so we got engaged um in January of 2020, and we're planning a wedding for September, and then you know, shifted that a few times, which was a fun time. Um, but ultimately we just decided like let's just wait. Because the legal part of it wasn't super important to us. I mean, we might change our mind with parenthood. I don't know, there might be things that like just taxes and crap like that that we're like, let's just do it.

[27:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[27:58] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but we really felt like we wanted like the gathering of our peeps, you know. You know, that's like what the wedding felt like what it was important for us to have be the like witnessed and celebrated. And um, and it just it still feels impossible to plan an event, like with certainty and pure joy.

[28:24] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[28:24] Elizabeth Stanley: So and then when we found out we were pregnant, I was like, I don't know. I don't want to plan a wedding and have to hire like a babysitter. I want her to be able to be a part of it, you know. Um, but we did, so September 27th would have been our wedding date, and we did um just have like a little celebration day between the two of us. And so Charlie was like, let's give some, let's give each other something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. And so I gave him this ring that had been my grandfather's.

[29:00] Elizabeth Stanley: Oh, so that's the ring that he was wearing, which he actually—it's a good practice ring for him because he just like plays with it and drops it a lot. And I'm like, oh no.

[29:18] Elizabeth Stanley: Oh. And I was like, um, where's your ring? He was like, oh, well, I forgot what show some show he was doing. He was like, he wouldn't have a ring. I think it was waitress, actually. I think it was for Cal. And he was like, Cal's not married. He's like, he wouldn't have a ring. And I was like, Well, you're not gonna be able to do it. But you can wear it during the day. And he was like, No, I have to take it on and off, on and off. I was like, welcome to my world. I have to take my ring off when I do the show. It's exhausting. I know, he's just so method. Um, but but I also though I have to say a little thing because Kara and I have, so anyone who's been listening for a while knows we have this group, Broadway Baby Mamas.

We're on Instagram, but we are a private Facebook group for moms in our community, right? And it's a safe space. It's awesome. So we always know that people are expecting, usually for sure, once they're requested to join, because that's the giveaway. However, before that happens, they usually start to follow us on social media. And you started following. Yep. You started following Mamas Talkin' Loud like months ago. And I said to Kara, I was like, Liz with Stanley's gotta be pregnant. I'm telling you, I bet she's pregnant. And then and then sure enough, there it was. And there are a few others. I won't, I won't throw them out because we won't out them here because they haven't publicly said anything, but there are people we've noticed have started following us.

And it's like we feel like the secret keepers sometimes because we're like, oh, that person's gonna say they're pregnant. That's so cool. I also there was that, but then also you did order um bracelets from Ivy and Clark. You ordered the fertility. I was just gonna say that that because we were trying for like six months before we got pregnant, and that like at my maternal age, at my advanced my AMA. Um geriatric pregnancy. That's right. That's when they're like, Well, if you've been trying for six months, then you should just like run some tests to just see what your bodies are doing, right? So it was like around that time. Um and so I was just like, you know, putting in energy in lots of different places, and I was like, I'm ordering this stack for myself.

Because I've been so impressed, like this business that you started, among all the other things that you do, but like, and that you do it with your daughter, it's just like so awesome. Thanks. Um and so, but I got your stack the day I found out I was pregnant, and so it just found like it felt like this, I don't know, good luck charm. And so I I like did not take it off for like the infer the first like trimester because that's you know, it's just like such a scary time that you're just like, yeah, please let everything keep going okay.

[31:54] Cara Cooper: Oh, I love that so much. I love it so much. Oh, that's so great. And I I want to say kudos to you because I just saw you were final post on Instagram before you were like, I'm taking a hiatus. First off, the photos are gorgeous. You're so beautiful. I mean, like, could there be a more stunning mother goddess about to have a baby? Like you look on a rooftop. Instead of Jenny Anderson like taking the photos. I mean, but it's she's got a great subject. So, but I just want to say, like, kudos to you for taking yourself out of the space, you know, and out of social media, off of social media, saying, I'm gonna be present, fully present in this time.

[32:33] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, you know, uh, social media is like I know. I mean, I I think everyone has a love hate with it. I know very few people who are just like, I love it. Um Ellen Marsh. No, I'm just I mean, some people are so good at that. That's the thing. Yeah, yeah. That I I definitely know people I'm like, you thrive here. It's really impressive. It's like I wish that I had that relationship with it sometimes. But no, not it. I definitely don't. No, definitely not. Um knock on wood, I generally have been someone who is not like plagued with jealousy and like comparison in my, you know, in my life, but in this industry too. I've I've just I don't know. I've been I've been lucky in that way. I have like supportive friends and other things, and I've been able to just like just keep my eyes on my own paper.

You know what I mean? Like I never visit any Broadway website. Like not Playbill, not Broadway.com, not you know, not and not because I don't like them. They're awesome. And sometimes it means I'm like, oh, I had no idea that was happening. Everyone's like, okay, Elizabeth. But I just knew for my own sanity, it's just better. I just just trust that what's meant for you is gonna come to you and don't be like emailing your agents every time, like, oh this thing is coming down the bike. You know, it just because for me that it made it worse, not better. Um but I gotta say, this last year I was not as I did not feel as cool about the jealousy stuff, and it just like crept in a way that um was new for me, like to a to a new level where I was like, oh my gosh, well, they're like writing a book and releasing an album and doing a concert and and starting a business, and and I was just like, that's stop, don't be just don't don't do that.

Um but then that coupled with like you know, I started following lots of mom things on um on the gram. And some of that stuff is scary. Like my midwives are really awesome and they're really into the mental health of the mom. It's like a huge part of their practice. And um a couple times I would come to them with questions like, Well, I read this article that blah blah blah, and I was like, just don't read those articles, Elizabeth. Like, don't be clicking on that. Um I know this is gonna be hard, and I'm not saying I'll be successful at it, but I don't want to be on my phone all the time in my baby's face. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be like breastfeeding and doom scrolling, like that just feels like a terrible combo.

Um I'm sure because it's hours of your life, like I'm gonna want distractions of other sorts, but they're all right. Exactly. I was like, catch up on your reading. Do something that's good for you, you know. And um, yeah, so I think it was sort of a self-preservation thing, but also like a a preparation thing where I was like, also right now, I don't need to be thinking about that stuff. Like that's not no, because you can't like none of that, a the the stuff on the mom stuff that you don't need that added on. Like you don't need the added stressors of that, but then business wise too, like that's not gonna be your world for a while. So it does nothing, like unless you can fully go in and feel just positive and supportive.

You don't need that, you don't need to see what is happening, what's going on, like be in this moment. This is so special. And like you said, this might very well be your only child, you know. Like at the time, I didn't know Elliot was gonna be my only, and I and I still like I feel like I took advantage, but I definitely wish that I had been even more present than I was. Remember, and I said I was consciously saying, remember this, remember this. It's hard, but I still wish, like, I it's so that saying of like, I don't wish I had another kid, but I wish I had my kid back at the beginning again, just to sort of like be more aware and present of each moment and milestone and things that were happening.

Because when you're in it to win it, Eric says it's like being in outer space for the first three months. You know, it's like it's such a crazy space, and like you're just trying to survive truly. Um, but I think taking out Instagram or social media from that equation will be super helpful just for you for your sanity as you move through this massive transition.

[37:25] Elizabeth Stanley: And you know, you're like this sort of this sort of segues into um something else I want to talk about, which is that you know, Jagged Little Pill, it's like the most woke show, right? There is. I know hashtag woke. Um I know, you know, that show was leading the charge with the conversations around just like LGBTQIA, like everything and uh racism, all these different social justice issues. Um, and then to have found ourselves in this place um when everything came to a head last summer for sure during Black Lives Matter and everything like that. Like, how has it? I know that for my company we've had Zooms and we've had cast conversations, and we're gonna have anti-racist training coming back, but how has it felt to be first off?

I think on social media during this time and knowing that like your position within that show, probably a lot of people were looking to see how you responded, right? I know that I I know that some of us have were being looked at to say, like, are they speaking up? Are they being an ally? Are they actively trying to listen and um be more anti racist and more aware? And you know, speaking up for the LGBTQI play, you know, A plus community and all the things. Um has that I mean, you're gonna be off social media, and I know that you have posted things. I mean, I've I've seen that, like you're clearly an ally, but going back to your show, do you have any sort of like hesitation with regard to the content of the show itself or how it's portrayed on stage or or the role that you play within that community?

Because I think I know you have some trans cast members, right? Or you have some non-binary cast members, and this new I don't know quite how to say this or what I'm even asking, truly, probably, but um I have hesitation going back to my show, you know. It's like I don't want to say the wrong thing, and I don't, you know, out of just ignorance or not realizing, and and so that is almost twofold with you and your show. And how is that? Like, have you guys been working on anything? Have y'all been talking to one another, or are there plans for your company to do any sort of work?

[39:48] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, yes to everything. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, I I think in terms of like myself and how I'm representing my um like public persona and what I'm doing, that's something I thought a lot about this past year. I mean, it's something I certainly thought a lot about before, particularly because of the show I was in, but um thing I really learned about myself is I feel like social media is not my not the place where I thrive in terms of my activism. Um, and I've kind of had to make peace with that and know like there are other things I'm doing, other conversations I'm having, other donations I'm making, you know. Um, and everybody, as long as everyone's doing something, right? Um, that's okay.

Uh, because for me, the conversations require so much nuance. Um life is just complicated and it's not binary, you know, ever. It feels like, you know, no matter how strongly I feel about something, there's always something to listen to on the other side. Um, even if it's not gonna change my mind, like I think it's oftentimes worth listening to or um, which for me is hard to have this kind of like true conversations over social media. What whatever do you mean? No, it's not yeah. I I mean some people are I again, some people seem to be kind of good at it, like they can do it. Um but so yeah, you said nuance, you can't get nuance from um words typed on a screen. You cannot. It's very, very hard to portray nuance that way, you know. And so I you really are nailing it on the head for me uh as I'm listening to you. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm I'm glad I'm not alone in that. Um, it's hard. Yeah.

[42:15] Elizabeth Stanley: But I definitely thought about, you know, even in just like kind of asking for what I need and going back to work, I was like, well, here I'm just like this white lady who's like, well, I have needs too.

[42:25] Elizabeth Stanley: Um and you know, took me some time to kind of wrestle with that and be like, well, yes, you can fight for the needs of other people and also have needs of your own and look at the big picture and see where you fit and where your needs fall on the sort of important spectrum.

[42:46] Elizabeth Stanley: And um, I mean Jagged has been a show that for and again, I can only speak from my experience in the room, right.

[42:56] Elizabeth Stanley: But it from the get-go has been trying more than any other show I've been a part of to be on the up and up.

[43:07] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, you know, having advisory boards of people who spend their, you know, it's their life's work with sexual assault survivors, working with people in recovery and addiction, working with racism, working with adoption, working with LGBTQ, you know, it's so you know, we spent days in rehearsal, precious rehearsal time that Diane Paulus was willing to give up and that the producers were willing to pay people to come in and um have these informed discussions and conversations.

[43:41] Elizabeth Stanley: And I've never been a part of a show that spends that kind of money and time um investing in educating the people in the room.

[43:50] Elizabeth Stanley: And was it perfect? No.

[43:52] Elizabeth Stanley: Was there room for improvement?

[43:54] Elizabeth Stanley: Yes, you know, but I do have to say, I think the show is trying, right? And so that makes me feel hopeful in coming back. I think they particularly with the trans non-binary things have made some missteps. And you know, I have my perspective of the evolution of things and my own experience in the room, but that's going to be different for each one of us. So I can't speak to the like this is the truth. Like everyone has a experience. And we're not all in every rehearsal room in every minute. But I do think like, you know, the statement that they released most recently was really painful to a lot of people in that community. And I do think like they are waiting, they have been waiting, I think, to make a proper statement or a follow-up statement in hopes that a conversation could be had with some of the people in our show that were especially upset by that.

But I don't know if that conversation is gonna happen. You know, I don't know that everyone is willing to talk. And so I think they're gonna have to move forward and figure out what to say, yeah. In the meantime, um, but I feel like personally, like the story of our show, how I see it, and I think it's kind of beautiful that like depending on who you are and what your life is about, you might be like, no, the show's about this. Um, but for me, because this is the character that I play, like to me, the show is really about a family who is trying to be awesome. Like we all are, um, and then it's really hurting. And my character is a survivor of sexual assault that she never dealt with. She never talked to anyone, like so many people our age never did.

Um, and then she becomes addicted to opioids, and which is also really common that like the two go hand in hand, um, which further fractures her family, you know, and so it's really for me about truth telling and and like going through the hard stuff, letting things be ugly, um, embracing the like we're gonna fall apart. I'm not perfect umness of life. And and so I think the more that the show leans into like, yeah, and the sh and the show is being created and made by human people who are making mistakes. Like, I it's sometimes I think it's such a curse that like woke got like put in one of the reviews about our show like early on, because that carries a certain like cliche kind of burden, right?

I think um yeah that uh I I feel my perspective anyway was that so many people working on the show were learning and changing and evolving and growing like right along with the show um in real time you know which is real messy but that's but that because of shows like your show those that learning and that growing happens right and I think that you the fact that before we even had this moment in time your producers and your creative team were actively bringing people in, having the conversations, having the heart, that's what it is. That's what we have to do.

[48:04] Cara Cooper: That's what we have to do. And I think that the underlying um for me at least, I we were having our listening circles and things, and it's like the patience with one another, right? It's like having patience with one another, take it down a notch, take the emotion, try to take the emotion down a notch and recognize like we all have a common goal, which is to be respectful and inclusive and tell the story and hear one another and respect one another ultimately, and so there will be missteps along the way, because like you said, we're human, but we must all have patience with each other, you know, as we move through this time. I mean, it's it's gonna be there's so much, not and you already your show already dealt with so much, and now coming back after this time, after the mental health issues and the isolation and the trauma and all of that, like I I can hear you that it was heavy and trying, and and I can only imagine what it will be like when your company goes back.

So probably really awesome that you're gonna be at home with your baby. I mean that's making it light, but it's that thing of like, oh my God. Like it's gonna be I think a lot of us, it's gonna be really heavy. It's gonna be really heavy for in so many different ways. In so many different ways, just being back in the room in general, you know, being with people. So and it's special, right? Like we are a part of a community of people that feels really deeply and I think thinks really deeply, like so many people that we work with, I would consider some of the smartest people I've ever met, you know. Um that the combination of those two things is really that's those are intense rooms to be in, even in times that feel less charged or less difficult. Um so I think it's it's also thrilling. Like I feel so excited to be amongst this great community of people that are like willing to feel their feelings and do hard things.

[50:15] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, totally. It's like the positive here ultimately is that we are all wanting to do the right things and make the changes and listen. Like we're not a people who are really averse to that, you know, and they're like, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear your journey, and I'm this is what I'm doing. Most of us are not like that. Most of us are terrified of, you know saying the wrong thing or hurting someone. Like we don't want to hurt these are our families, these are our show families. Like the last thing we want to do is hurt anyone in in the room and in our community. And so I think I think just coming in from that that place right off the bat already, hopefully, that we all can recognize we're all here for this common good and support and love and lead with that you know that's all we can do I guess yeah and it's it's a practice in vulnerability right which is such a it's like a thing that we all learn as actors like how transparent how vulnerable can you be how because that's real scary really uncomfortable um but I think these rehearsal spaces you know hopefully and on their best days like embody that and allow us to be like really vulnerable and big mistake makers and apologizers and learners right like well um yeah that's so true Kara I was just gonna say as we come to a close here as we start to wrap up um I was gonna so we've decided we want to hear what would be because of mental health and everything that um because this is a massive transition this is just as people moving back into the world I mean uh it it's a lot and then add on top of it like this new life chapter that you're about to embark on everything it's so exciting what would be your mantra in moving through this time if you had a mantra what would what would that be I'm like I want to say the perfect thing no no no sure say what you feel one word if you want, you know, whatever the mantra, whatever you feel.

[52:35] Elizabeth Stanley: I think a good one is um like be curious. I love it. Just staying open to the things that make me uncomfortable or challenge me. Um wondering why is that? Why, why don't you like that? Why does that feel weird? Um then just genuinely being curious about each other, right? I think yeah, that's that's what strikes me as we go back, it's like and I feel like actors are so good at this already, but just really being gentle with each other, like it can, you know, it's especially when you're putting up a big expensive Broadway show, it's just like things can be tense, and we can be taskmasters and just bust our asses, and you know, but I think just really checking in with each other, like, how are you doing today is gonna be really important.

[53:50] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I think that's I mean, it's so perfect for the return to work, but it is also so perfect for this next phase of your life. Yes, a being gentle with yourself, and also being curious about the new person you're gonna become. Like we're gonna speak um with Corey Petinod. We spoke with her already, and she had just kind of had her baby. I think Carver was like three months old when we spoke, and she's like, I am just getting to know this new person that I am. She's like, sure, I'm getting to know this baby, but I'm also getting to know this new version of myself. So to be curious and gentle through that process, as you're gonna shift and change and be like, who is I'm in this new skin? I don't know who's person.

[54:31] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing that. That's yeah. I think I hadn't been thinking about that as much for myself, and I'm I'm sure I need to.

[54:40] Cara Cooper: Well, you know, yeah. You you'll you'll you will inherently once you're in it, but yeah, good to you're already in the right headspace for it. You are for sure. And before we go, I just want to tell you in the next, just be aware of how often you can say, Hey, I want to go down the street to the store, and then you just like grab your purse and you walk out the door like that fast. Just take that in because do it now, because you never again will ever leave the house that like carefree, just feeling like, oh, I don't have to worry about the things I have or diaper bag or what I'm feeding my child or what they're gonna need later. You just snacks. I don't have an I don't need to have any snacks.

I don't need snacks. Like we were in the car today on our way to Costco, and my son was like, uh he's like, I'm hungry. He's like, What do you have to eat? I was like, nothing. He said, Mom, you don't have any snacks? I was like, No, I don't have any snacks. You just ate breakfast. We are on our way to Costco. It is gonna take us a half hour, and you will go home and you will eat something there. He could not understand that I did not have any snacks.

[55:42] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, it's the truth. So just I just pick up that purse and walk out the door, just just unencumbered because that won't happen.

[55:53] Cara Cooper: Oh god, yeah. I mean, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. Sure, it's gonna be great. Just heavy. So yeah, I am so jealous of of the time you're about to enter for me. For me, um, the newborn phase was like super magical. I could have cared less about anything else. I was like, however, the hormones affected me, they were very positive in those first three months. Not so much later on, don't worry. I had my fair share later, but in those first three months, I was like, this is magic. This is amazing. So I'm I hope for you it's that way.

[56:26] Elizabeth Stanley: That's so beautiful. Yeah, I love hearing that. I know. I mean, I think it's right, different it hits everybody at times. Like the part where you're just like, what did I do? This person is here all the time. Forever. I have to think about them.

[56:40] Cara Cooper: Yep, that's that's real. I have to think what I'm feeding this person every meal. No, I don't know that used to be my thing. Karen knows. I'd be like, I have to think about what to feed them. She's like, girl, just put out some cut up grapes, some cheese. It can be like a charcuterie board, you know, like definitely. Which is our favorite. This is our favorite. So anyway, girl, we are so excited for you. And thank you so much for joining us on in this version because we want to talk to you after the fact.

[57:13] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[57:13] Cara Cooper: Once you're gonna be interesting to hear, yeah. Once you've caught your breath, we're super excited. We want to hear about it and follow along. And um, and we just we're we're thrilled for you.

[57:23] Elizabeth Stanley: Thank you. It's been awesome to watch this come up in your life. So it's such a it's such a pleasure to like have you as other examples of awesome working mamas in the business, and all that you you both do. It's really inspiring to see and and that you mother so well, and you know, maintain your artistry too. It's really cool. So thanks for inviting me to join you.

[57:46] Cara Cooper: Yeah, of course. Thank you.

[57:48] Elizabeth Stanley: Thanks for being honored your way.

[57:49] Cara Cooper: Yeah, for sure. Be well.

[57:52] Elizabeth Stanley: You too.

[57:57] Cara Cooper: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Justin Squiggs Robertson for our fabulous new graphic. Kristen Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Wardweber for our awesome theme song, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.