This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jessica Rush: Hi everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud. I'm Jessica Rush.

[0:06] Cara Cooper: And I'm Cara Cooper. And today's episode is incredibly special to us. As most of you know, seven years ago, we started a support group for mothers in our industry. And about a month ago, we invited them to join us in a group scream. Like the New York Times did earlier this year. We wanted to provide a space where we could just let it fly. We've all been through a lot these past 18 months, and moms have borne the brunt of it. Put on top of it careers in an industry that has been shut down and is just coming back to life. It's an overwhelming time to say the least. As you will hear, this episode is a raw and emotional glimpse into what we've all been grappling with these past 18 months and how we are moving forward one step, one breath at a time. Here's part two of the Broadway Baby Mamas Primal Scream.

[0:57] ♪ Musical number: "Mama's Talkin' Loud" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[1:23] Sarah: Sarah, new mom, right?

[1:26] Unknown speaker: Yeah, new mom. Um, my baby's seven months now, had him during the pandemic. Um, it's actually Aaron was speaking a little bit about touring, and that's uh I was on tour when the pandemic hit and got pregnant um during the pandemic, and uh my tour is about to start up again, and I'm just really freaked out. I'm freaked out. I'm taking my baby with me. My husband is not coming with me because he is he was a performer. Um, his show's not starting up again, and so he's becoming a firefighter. So he is going to Santa Ana Fire Academy in the fall. So I'm going on tour by myself with my seven-month-old, and I am freaking out. But I will say hearing like Sarah talk about everything she's doing with her baby by herself gives me hope that you know, maybe I'm strong enough to do this.

Um, but the real concern I'm having is that so I'm in Los Angeles right now, and we have two weeks of rehearsal in New York, and then we open back to in Portland. And I can't decide if I want to take my baby on a plane to New York for 12 days, 13 days of rehearsal, and then back on a plane cross-country with this Delta variant. I'm like so freaked out about it. But then do I leave him here? And you know, I'm still breastfeeding. I just don't know how that works. I don't produce a ton of milk. So, like, am I gonna have enough to leave for him for 12 days? Is it gonna kill me to not be with my baby for? I mean, yes, it's gonna fucking kill me and not be with my baby for 12 days, but is that the risk I take?

Uh so yeah, he doesn't risk catching the Delta variant, and no one seems to have good answers of how susceptible babies really are to this new variant, and you know, what are the long-term ramifications of this disease with children? And no one knows. It feels like no one really knows anything. So it's like, I don't know. It's just something I've been really struggling with and going back and forth and touring with a baby. Touring with a uh seven month will be eight months, I think when we start. Um that's scary too. I think I'm gonna try to drive a lot of it, but you know, we have to go from this coast uh LA to Toronto. So I I gotta fly. I mean, driving in the winter, I'll kill all of us because I don't know how to drive in the snow, first of all.

Um, but now I'm rambling. But yeah, that's so that's that's what I'm dealing with. And it's it's comforting to hear other moms like Erin be concerned about that because sometimes it makes me feel like I'm being crazy or a hypochondriac worrying about him the way I do.

[4:16] Cara Cooper: Not at all, and you will worry for the rest of your life. I mean, I hate to tell you. Um, no, I mean, just touring touring with a baby alone. Forget about a pandemic, forget about Delta variant. Anytime I've known people who toured with their child, I was just like, holy moly. Um, there are not with regard to the Delta variant, but just touring with a child in general. Search on the group because there's been a lot of conversations and like Autumn Herlbert, she went on tour. I mean, Lincoln was like a toddler, but still I know there are people who might have some insight for sure into that. Um, Kara's looking something up. Um, but with regard to the Delta variant, I mean I know it's terrifying to take him on the plane.

However, from the beginning, they've said that flying is one of the safest things because the filters are HEPA filters, they're medical, the airflow constantly, you know, is cleaned and put out again. Um, we flew, I mean, my child is six, she is not a baby, so that is a whole different ball of wax. But like we flew and everyone had their masks on. I kept mine on, but I know that you know, with the seven-month-old, he baby can't wear a mask. Is there someone do you have family there or would your husband just stay there?

[5:39] Sarah: No, we have family, but they're just my in my parents can't really watch him, and my in-laws can uh my mother-in-law at work, so she can't, and I'm gonna be fully honest, I don't really trust my father-in-law to watch the baby by himself. Um, and my husband's gonna be in the school from like 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. So that's all the waking hours of uh, you know, of the baby. So we'd have to maybe find someone to watch him, and I'm like, well, then I just want to bring him with me, you know. But it is, it's the fact too that he can't wear a mask. I flew once and it was the day after 4th of July, and it was terrible. And there were all these assholes without masks on, and it was so crowded in the airport.

And you know, there's these two people in front of me who every time the flight attendant passed by would take off their mask and then put it on when they'd walk by and then take it off. And I just God, I just hate people so much. I feel like I might get arrested on a plane with my son because I'll kill someone.

[6:40] Cara Cooper: How many days? How many days do you have to get there? Can you drive?

[6:43] Sarah: I thought about driving. I've thought about it, but I don't is that safe too? Because then you have to stop in all those places, you know.

[6:52] Cara Cooper: You drove though, didn't you? Did you drive?

[6:54] Sarah: Yeah, we drove.

[6:55] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[6:57] Sarah: Yeah, we drove across the country.

[6:58] Cara Cooper: How did it be?

[6:59] Sarah: And there were some parts that it was I felt like I was bathing in COVID, some parts when I when we stopped to go to the bathroom. But for but, you know, we just looked up hotels that had COVID safety, you know, like people had reviewed them and said how they felt, and we tried to make sure we didn't stop overnight in the places where we knew the numbers were high, you know.

[7:17] Cara Cooper: So um but it would just be you in a car with a baby across the country.

[7:24] Sarah: And that doesn't sound like for several days. That doesn't sound very fun.

[7:29] Cara Cooper: Right. I mean, I think I vote, I mean I I vote to take him. I that's how I I don't know if there's gonna be a sitter anyway and you don't have family really that you trust. It's one of those things where will the stress of you not only being in rehearsal, going back into this room and into this space that you haven't done since everything shut down and the trauma of all of that, you know, because I do think it's gonna be traumatic to go back to work for a lot of us, but you have that worry on top of then you're worried constantly about your baby and if he's being taken care of well enough and if they're watching him or pick you know, I just oh I'm so sorry, Sarah. Like it's just such a hard it's a hard, it's a really shitty decision. And I'm just sending you love for it because it's just yeah, yeah.

[8:18] Unknown speaker: And whatever decision you make will be the right one for you, I think.

[8:21] Cara Cooper: But yeah, jump in. Can I ask you, Sarah, did you get the vaccines when you were pregnant?

[8:28] Sarah: Um I I had him on Christmas, so the vaccine wasn't available to me yet.

[8:33] Cara Cooper: Um, okay because there's a new study that came out that said like moms who have been vaccinated during their pregnancy were able to pass on the antibodies.

[8:44] Sarah: Which is sort of a relief if you had been, but okay.

[8:48] Sarah: Yeah I'm pres I got the vaccine and I'm breastfeeding him, so I think he is getting some antibodies, but I don't know I don't think anyone knows exactly how much or how long that protection lasts, if it's ingested.

[9:01] Unknown speaker: Ugh sucks this sucks.

[9:05] Sarah: I'm sorry.

[9:06] Unknown speaker: Sarah I hi I'm Manalie hi everybody. Sorry it's a little intimidating talking to everybody but um number one thank you. And two just because I'm I'm literally teaching my youngest student is a month old my oldest is four.

[9:24] Unknown speaker: But in terms of traveling across the country my gut instinct for you is obviously he would be in the he or she I'm so sorry. Car seat he in a car seat and maybe I don't know if this even exists but if you have a cover for the car seat so that you know that he's not really ingesting any particles um or if there's something that's like maybe sheer that you can see him and he can see you so that you have that layer sort of a protection um and obviously nurse him during the flight he's small so he'll want to be on you anyway. He's probably gonna like you know crave you a lot but if you have him in that car seat number one he's safe in the car seat number two if you have like a little baby cover like you would use if you were strolling um it's particularly one that he can see you in it will probably bring you a lot of peace and comfort since he can't be in a mask anyway.

[10:23] Unknown speaker: Uh haven't done I'm trying to research as much as I can with the Delta variant because I am singing and I'm teaching music and we're like teaching them how to give that breath. So I'm like waiting for my K N 95 masks and my like singer mask so that I know I'm vaccinated, but and most of my parents are, but kids aren't. And since we can still transmit it even with a vaccine, um I'm just super careful because I obviously don't want you know a newborn or an infant who can't at least with a two or three year old they can say mommy my throat hurts, right? Or you know you can see them sneezing or their eyes are watering and you know your kid by then about like when you can see something coming. When a baby it's like any number of things could be the issue.

[11:13] Unknown speaker: So um I'm feeling for you I'm gonna say a prayer over you. I'm thinking like a cross country three, you know, at least three days I'm guessing in a car is gonna be really really hard. You're not gonna be able to see him. He's gonna be in the backseat if he cries or whatever if you're stopping constantly to feed him or et cetera it's gonna probably be harder than you know mustering all that courage and having all the prayer warriors over you and you know getting on that flight that probably would be the safest and quickest and most efficient way um to be there.

[11:47] Unknown speaker: Also in terms of just um Aaron I'm so sorry for your loss um in terms of losing your best one of your best friends to COVID.

[12:05] Unknown speaker: Not you know a few months ago um and having that very difficult discussion because he was very um reluctant to follow science or guidelines, or you know, he has a different way of thinking, a little less liberal, I should say, than maybe my husband and myself. My husband works in finance, so he is like at his desk from 8 30 to like 5 30. And I have two girls under six and three.

[12:40] Unknown speaker: And uh I have been out of the game for a long time. Like my last show was 2012 in the heights, regional. So it's been a minute. So hearing um your stories and still being encouraging, I mean, I feel like by the time I feel like I'm really ready to go and I know like wholeheartedly, like I know my girls are set. Now it's important for mommy to get back to doing what she loves to do so they can see me being successful, so they can see me doing what I love. So hopefully it will inspire them to find what they love to do and do that well. Um, but for the longest time, I always said I want to be selfish now so I can be selfless later. And I feel like God is like, oh, you're gonna be selfless for a long time, like long, long time.

You got to do what you want to do for a long time. Now you're gonna do here for like a long time. So I'm sort of waiting until they're really set. And I know like at least once I if I got the gig, if I booked the gig, I could leave at like 5:30 and keep to put them to bed and I would be able to go and do my thing, but it's so intimidating to even think about okay, where do I even sit now? I'm definitely not this. I'm I don't know if I'm I'm not a chorus girl, I'm not that. I mean, I've heard all your names and chorus calls and callbacks and auditions for I don't even know how long. So it's like, oh yeah, here she is. Lauren Cooper. I see you. Um so at any rate, I just really appreciate all the information.

And I was just curious if anyone is like in a rehearsal for a Broadway show right now and what it looks like, if that has even showed up or talking about it and if they know what the guidelines even are. Like I kept my my little one home from she did virtual kindergarten. So all of it is changing constantly. And I'm just curious if anybody has a friend or a friend of a friend or is in it or doesn't know like what it what is it gonna look like? I can't even and there's the whole doing something that you love, but putting up the parameters that work for you. Like, yes, I am a mother, yes, I need to have this, I can only work here, like setting those boundaries for instead of like possibly doing what you can just to stay noticed or stay in the conversation, like the the theater conversation.

Like, oh yeah, I remember her from didn't she do that like long, long, long, long time ago. She hasn't been here in a while. Or does it just kind of oh, we haven't seen you in a while, but how are things going? I don't know. I have no idea how that's how this works. This is very, very fresh and new. Sorry for rambling. Aaron, hang in there. Anybody you know, as you're saying that, I'm like, well, you know what? They haven't really been seeing a lot of people for a long time. So maybe it is, I don't know, a good time to re-enter, right? Everybody's faces relatively fresh. I don't know. That just popped into my head. I don't know if that's valid or not. Um, but I we all understand and feel you. I mean, I feel like we're all saying very similar things, but with different um importance and and different experience. Um that's what we're here for. Lauren, I think you were next.

[16:18] Lauren Cooper: You wanna hi everybody, I'm Lauren. Um yeah, first of all, I'm I'm so honored to be a part of this group. Um I knew I always wanted to have kids. And so at school I studied with the opera singer Shirley Verett, and I asked her, I was 20, like it was on my mind, motherhood, and I asked her, I was like, how did you have a kid and do your career? And you know, she kind of gave me this advice, and I don't even really remember what it was. Like, I I got some of it from her book of how she negotiated with her husband, how much she was gonna be away from home, but at the same time, like even reading it, I didn't feel reconciled. And it's ooh, it's funny. Like, it's funny the things that like pop up in your head that you don't expect to say, but it's there's continuity, and so I think for me on some level, so I for forever I've always won known I wanted to be a performer, and it's it's my life force, like it's like probably so many of you or all of you, it's it what makes makes you complete.

So, as I chose partners, I was like, you have to respect my career. And when my husband and I decided to have kids, it was like, okay, if we're gonna have kids, I have to continue with this career. And it's so I have two kids. I have a five-month-old as of today, and I have an almost three year old. And I feel like on some levels I was holding back from really allowing myself to be in my career. And now that I have my five-month-old, I'm ready. I feel like now I feel complete. I I don't have the roadmap that I've been looking for since I think I was 20 of how do I have kids in a career, but I'm ready. And at the same time, I have like so much guilt because now I see them and I'm like, I have to feed you.

And I think, okay, you know, I have I've been auditioning, but like not tons for musical theater, and that's where my heart is. And I, you know, I I look at my skill set and I'm like, I know that I'm a perfectionist, I know that it's stronger than I'm giving myself credit, but I'm like, I need to beyond doing the stuff I'm doing and you know, lessons part-time, I'm like, I need to be in class, but to like take the time to do it and take the resources feel scary, and to um take them what I'm perceiving as away from my family feels scary. Um, though I know that it's investing in all of us, it's just you know, and it I've been able, like, you know, for so many years, it's like I've done jobs here, I've done, you know, jobs that pay enough, do a job that pays enough, but it's like I've had my part-time work, and it's but it's just tricky, you know.

It's like it's tricky to like pull that part of that security blanket, what feels like a security rub blanket out from under you. I don't know, to give to provide one that you know that's more lasting and more, but I I don't know, that's more financially risky. And I don't know. So we're in this pandemic, and then there's a delta vir variant, and I you know, I'm like, like I think I can't remember your name, but you know, my daughter can't wear a mask, my almost three-year-old can. And what does that mean? Am I ready to jump into a room with people when that's really what I want to be doing? I don't know. I don't know. So I'm making sense of it all as we go along and just trying to have faith and trust that like in divine order, everything is making sense and I'm grappling with what I need to grapple with as we go along.

So thank you for holding space. Something you said really struck a chord with you when you were talking about um your side gigs not feeding you the way um your art feeds you and how it affects how you parent. And I feel like I saw that in spades with myself when I did go back to eight shows a week after having two kids. I was a way better parent. The time I spent with my children was and I do wish it was more, right? It it becomes really, really finite, especially if you have kids that are in school, you know, that that nightly show schedule is really not conducive to it. Um, but the time I was with them, I was really, really with them because I was filled up. Um, and I'm reminding myself of that as I'm telling you, because I definitely need to be reminded of it. So um, thank you for sharing.

[21:23] Alison: Um, why don't you chime in? Hi, everybody. Um, sorry that I was late. Um, I um just love hearing from everybody. And um something that you said, Manalie, it made me think of um, okay, so I feel like being a part of this group has given me a lot of confidence to be like out as a mom and a performer. Um, because for a long time I wouldn't talk about being a mom or having kids because I was afraid that I I was I found myself often as the only parent in the room, um, just you know, whether it's concerts or or whatever. Um, and I I felt like people were like, oh, well, she's not really like her head's not here, or you know, all the things that you are worried that people are judging you for. So um just this past week, I had had um a voiceover that I was going into the city.

I'm in Jersey, so I was gonna commute in. I had this set up for weeks. It was this like I was so excited for this project, and I had the day scheduled within an inch of its life. All of you commuter moms, I'm sure you get this. And my husband, for the first time, so he he writes music, and for the first time in years, we both had to be at work in this city. We have two kids, two boys, a three-year-old, and a seven-year-old. The seven-year-old was going to be in a drama camp for most of the day, but the three-year-old, we were trying to figure out could he come with one of us, or because we have no babysitters really. I mean we have in our family, we have no family. So um, and if it was in different studio, I probably could have brought him with me and given him his iPad and headphones, and he could, you know, play a game while I was recording.

But this was a new opportunity, a new studio, a new producer, and I was really concerned I would be judged. So I was like, okay, we're gonna have to find somebody, he'll stay in Jersey. So cut to the day before we have everything set up. We have a babysitter, we we have everything ready to go. And the day before, I get an email from the whoever's like booking the times, and she's like, Oh, um, we have some changes, like, can you come in? Like shifting it up like an hour or something. And I was like, I did not know how to respond because at this point they don't know that I commute, they don't know that I have kids, that I'm scheduling the stay within an inch of our family's life. Um, and so I think and reading all the posts and hearing the amazing stories of the women here, I said, you know what?

I actually can't move it very much because my I have two kids and one of them is in a camp, and you know, my we are, you know, I didn't go into super detail now with you, but I laid it out and I said, No, I, you know, but here's another time that I could do it. I could come in tomorrow. I'm very excited. Just this this adjustment won't work for our family schedule this day. And to my great relief, um, she she agreed. She said, Oh, that's no problem. And so, like, we we found a different day that week, and it was fine. Um, and then later, she's not a parent herself, but she's oh, you know, how are the kids? How's the kids? She like it became like something that we could talk over. But I was scared to death that I was going to lose the job that I was very excited about, or that I would never be asked back again because I would be seen as a difficult um person to schedule because I had you know my kids that I had to worry about.

And you know, in some respect, I don't know if maybe this maybe this I feel like I can't be the only one, but sometimes it feels like, especially if you whether you do or do not have a partner in the business, I feel like it still falls to me to be the person to change the schedule as opposed to my partner. And he is such a good father, he's a great partner, but I still carry that um emotional labor, the planning for every single thing for the family, planning the pack for the babysitters or or whatever it may be.

[25:27] Lauren Cooper: So it's like on top of everything else. It does feel like it falls to us, to the mamas. And you know, it that is what it is. Um, even when you try to go for that 50-50 with a partner in the business, um, or not in the business. I mean, I think it's just, you know, a partner to partner basis. Um, but so that I felt very proud and happy that it worked out, but I was literally I I went into it saying I'm probably gonna lose this job, but I'm gonna stand up for myself and for moms trying to book these schedules. Um, so that is uh something I want to thank you all for because I literally it was the first time I've ever put it out there in that sort of way. Um, and the only other thing I will say, just to echo what so many uh folks here are saying, I have just started uh doing concert work again and like doing a reading presentation, that kind of thing.

And I um no one is crazy if you feel like you are trying to be extra careful or you think you're a hypochondriac for your kids. I just want to say you're not I too share all of those concerns. I have been scared to death uh some of the venues require vaccination some of them have not and the ones that have not I was scared the whole time that I was going to pick something up and bring it home when I don't have my mask on and I'm singing and spitting and everything's flying everywhere. So I just uh you know you just everybody um I just am sending so much love and strength and compassion and everyone just um I'm so proud of all of us for doing what we need to do to keep our families safe and thank you for letting me speak for a minute.

[27:17] Jessica Rush: Of course thank you I'm hollow for some work. I love it when y'all like a few of you have mentioned things you were doing and that's amazing. That's awesome. I wanted to go back to Manalie you were asking about like a show if anyone's in rehearsal or anything's going on. My husband starts rehearsal on Wednesday to uh to go back to Waitress and they um he had to get tested yesterday and they're testing uh at home like they're doing like at least for them they're doing uh antigen tests at home that company management will give and you have to swab yeah yourself and then if that's a positive then they do the PCR or whatever. But we've been having this conversation because we are I mean, you know, when the pandemic hit, there was no Waitress on Broadway.

So the fact that he has a job is like I it came out of nowhere, and I'm incredibly grateful. I was doing Tina, so we knew I was gonna go back to work, but the fear of um of bringing something home is very real. And to think, and it's there's a level that has that we have recognized in talking about this because Elliot's gonna go to school, she'll be in her mask, but not only, you know, we sort of unfortunately, you know, we've we've lost people as well to COVID. And so, you know, but you've gotten to this point where you're like, well, initially we were trying to not die, right? Like that's what we were trying to do was like just stay alive. And now it's like, oh, just stay negative so that you can go to work.

Like as if there wasn't enough for us to think about. Now the concern is going to work, making sure you stay healthy for yourself, for your castmates, for your children, and then also having to trust the people you work with that they're not gonna be out doing who knows what and bringing possibly bringing it in asymptomatically, and then you get it and then pass it to your child. And that's a that's a a world that we have to really, I think we're gonna have to be really honest with each other in our rehearsal rooms. I see a few of you that are gonna be in rehearsals, and I think we have to speak up and just say, look, like I know that in your 20s, it feels like you're invincible and everything is amazing and you want to have a hot summer, whatever, but like I have a child that can't be vaccinated.

And and I need you, I need to trust you as my show family that you are going to remember my little trio and Katie's, and you know, several of the guys in our show now have children and they have small children, and it's lit babies, you know, and it's like we need you to think of us also, and we're gonna have to live in a way that we don't love really, right? All of us are, even it's gonna continue. We're gonna be in this place for a while. And I just I I hope it's overwhelming, and I just I just wanna really like trust my fellow actor in a way that I cannot trust my fellow Americans to um to think of others, and so I encourage anyone if you're in the rooms to bring these things up because I mean equity is setting these rules, and we're all trying to do stuff, and everyone's gonna be vaccinated, but things happen, and you know it's a very tricky dare variant for sure.

[30:35] Alison: So manily, just riffing off that too. I just did a reading at New 42, and one of our actors did test positive at the end of week one, and it all kind of was like and then that happened on the Friday. We all got PCR on the Saturday and New 42, like splits, you know, huge clean, and then everyone else was negative, so we all went back to work on the Monday. So, and in London it's very different, like everyone has to quarantine for 10 days, you know. So it's um it was it felt very secure, it felt very safe, and and it was great to be honest. Like well, and I saw on Eric's email, yeah, that at New 42 you have to fill out a form every morning, right? And get like no one can come in, no visitors, and you have to fill out the thing, and yeah, thank you.

So well, that might have in-laws that just came in from London, so when they were here, they like quarantined and they actually left us little COVID tests, which is amazing because you just can ask request the COVID test and it shows up on your door. Oh god, seven of them for free. Um and they had to quarantine for 10 days and like test the way you said um if they wanted to get out earlier, but that is good to know. And I'm glad that you know the testing, I think is gonna be huge. But yeah, that what you said, Jessica about speaking up like, hey, we have little ones that cannot get vaccinated, and we don't know when that's gonna be, hopefully 2022, but we don't know for sure. And you know, maybe you're not heading to the bar after the show, even if you really want to maybe just take that party, grab a tequila or something and do a shop for yourself. I I can't even maybe we just maybe we just drink in our dressing room after the show, right? I mean, can't we just do that and then we just get in a car and then we go home?

[32:34] Lauren Cooper: So I also just wanted to talk about the vaccination thing for one moment because I had to ask um a bunch of dancers for a TV show that I work on, and everybody had to be vaccinated. And two of the dancers that I did ask weren't vaccinated and had very um personal reasons why they weren't vaccinated, and it really broke my heart to tell them that they couldn't then be a part of something because they weren't vaccinated for their reasons and my heart and I believe in science and I'm vaccinated, you know, and all of that, but my heart just really went out to these two ladies because they're trying to honor other things in their life, and um, and they just kind of really broke my heart that they were having to negotiate something for themselves and their lives, and that then I could I told them they couldn't do something that was gonna be really special. And I just wanted to like it's not, I think for you know, for some people it's well, of course, it's like it's it's a big decision, you know, within their life.

[33:40] Jessica Rush: And so we're gonna take a quick break. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.

[33:53] Sarah: I'm grateful to get back, but it comes along with all of the things that you've all been speaking about tonight, you know, the guilt and the now after being home for a whole year and they've experienced that. Like my kids never knew me home, like ever. And now it's like I've been home for a year and then I'm gonna go and they're gonna flip the hell out, you know, and it's gonna be so hard. They're gonna be like, what? You've been here, you can't do bed times, what you know. Um but anyway, it's it's a blessing to hear all of you speak. And um I'm just uh somebody said earlier that uh I think it was Lauren that um you know your soul, something about your soul being fed. And um it's just it's a heavy load that we all carry.

It's such a heavy load, this decision of like needing to feed ourselves, and also this like desperate uh responsibility to be a mom and uh balancing those two. But in the end, Lauren, just you know, I think in the end it's just it's quality, not quantity, right? It's about that balance of just if if you if you spend like like Cara said earlier, you know, when you're doing an eight-show week and you have those moments and you just it's about the quality because you are better, you can give more, right? Because you're fulfilled. So anyway, thanks for letting me share that.

[35:36] Rachel: Yeah, but you're all awesome. Rachel, you you're raising your hand. I think that what I'm actually most worried about is that uh is what I think a lot of people are worried about, um, who are watching, you know, so much of this beautiful anti-racism work and restorative justice work and gender inclusion work like really take hold in the mainstream, is just wondering like how long is this gonna hold and how deep does this really go? Um, and I, you know, some of y'all know my work with Pal. I've negotiated caregiver stipends into contracts. I've I've worked with producers on on their handbooks and company management handbooks, and um, we even have something called compassion training. It's a curriculum that Pal does with producers and organizations on how to support caregivers.

And yet still this idea of, you know, even when my partner does the 50-50, even when there's financial support, I still feel X. So much of it has to do with the fact that culturally, um, women and caregivers of marginalized genders are still seen with a bias. And so this idea that unless the change is intentional and radical, we can see a lot of progress and still feel a lot of weight. And so I think what I'm worried about is that the deep work isn't going to be done, that folks are gonna be like, as long as we're returning, as long as people are employed, quote unquote, then we're good. We're doing the right thing. Um, we're ethical, um, we're legally compliant, we're solid when you know a culture of care, a culture of compassion is about having a deep empathy and and commitment to action for your colleagues and the people that you work with.

And so my question is, is that gonna be there when we return? Because it wasn't there before the pandemic, it started to get there during, and so that that's just weighing so hard in my heart. It's just, you know, what spaces are we entering into to make it safe to work and safe to be human and safe to caregive.

[37:39] Jessica Rush: Well, I'm I think that's I mean, completely and totally valid. And I think all of us are worried. I mean, that's how we started this conversation, right? Talking about being worried to stand up for ourselves in an industry that hasn't existed and just wanting to say yes because we don't even know how it's what it's gonna look like, um, which kind of just brings us so many steps backwards, right?

[38:01] Rachel: Than we were before it happened. Um, so it's on us, right, Rachel, to bring your you're totally frozen. So hopefully um to bring those conversations in the room. But it's also we also can reach out to pal, because it doesn't have to always be on us if we are in situations that don't feel comfortable, right? You have um ways in which we can help lead our producers or people in charge that don't necessarily negatively directly affect our percept, the perception of us, correct? Yes, absolutely. Um, and and that's also about you know the I mean, in the podcast, mom's talking loud too, the reason why it's such a huge um culture impact piece is because when we share stories with each other it's the advocacy of others that takes the burden of self-advocacy off ourselves even for just a moment um and so yes if anyone needs help and reaches out to pal we'll be there to talk to your employers and to even help you negotiate those child care stipends if you need them or you say I know that my babysitter is gonna need to meet on site and they're gonna talk to me about liability what's the deal there um and we can help you figure out what the insurance actually is so that you're not left with some um super rude managing director uh telling you otherwise but um yeah just yes and I hope that everyone on this call knows you know I love I love when someone said I'm squeezing your hand and walking in with you that part of that self-worth and that self-value is not feeling like you're walking in alone even though the people in the room you may not know where they stand you can still walk in with the people who support you.

[39:35] Cara Cooper: Yes Rachel Spencer Hewitt always always with the things yeah Rachel I mean rock star those I mean if you don't know pal get on it she has founded um pal years ago and put so much time and effort and work into the handbook and into and focused on caregiver support within our industry and she is a rock star. So if you don't know Rachel get to know her know pal. We just actually re-released the conversation we had with her which was um Kara and I like bow down to her because I don't know how she does all the things we talk about things that we have to do. Rachel Spencer Hewitt does like a bajillion of things. Anyway, we are as we come to wrap this up. Something we are asking um our season three podcast guests as we go back into this time.

Um is what is what what is your mantra for this for moving through this time? And if you have one and you would like to share it, that's wonderful. And if you don't, that's okay too. But um I think it's really interesting to hear what we tell ourselves and what mantra we adopt to help us get through this very specific time in our world.

[40:56] Unknown speaker: Lynn, did I see you? Oh no.

[40:59] Lynn: Yeah, I guess what like first pops to me is like I think I said earlier, one day at a time. Because it just makes it keeps me mindful, keeps me centered, keeps me not going too far, being in the trying to be in the moment, and literally just taking one moment at a time, which and really being in the very present, and that's what I think to myself when I get too ahead. One one day at a time. Um my mantra through the whole pandemic was surrender, because we just like everything was just right. Um, and I don't really know what it what it is now, but it's gotta be a version of that, right? Because we still don't really know, and then entering into everything, you still don't know how you're gonna do it and what's gonna happen. Um, so just uh some kind of a version of surrender because it's just so uh out of our control. So just I love the day at a time too. I think that's great.

[41:57] Wendy: Hi, I keep telling myself and have for how many months has this been. Um just do the next right thing. Just do what's what is the right next step? Um, our lives have been quite complicated in terms of trying to make some larger picture decisions. And I have to step back from that and just say, just do this next right thing. What is it that I'm doing for my kids? How am I getting through the first part of this day? What is our work schedule? However, we're balancing that for these next eight hours. What's the right next right thing for my family, for myself, for today, for this week. We don't have to know what's happening in four months. Um, it's helped a lot. It doesn't solve every problem, but it allows us to at least accomplish the small things, which for us has added up to a lot of big things and a lot of silver linings.

I don't have the right phrase, but um I like to um practice what I preach. I feel like when my kids come to me with problems, I have a um really calm way of helping them problem solve. Um, and when it is my problem, I don't really have that ability. So I try to go back to um the calm parenting advice I would provide to my children and use it to myself. I've started writing down a lot of the conversations I've had with my kids, and um, it's been surprising how many of those messages I can relate or use in my own life. So I'm trying to practice what I preach. Uh yeah, just shout out to Simone Biles. And my mantra right now is there's power in the word no. Um it's often so vilified. I apologize for it all the time or pretend I don't want to say it.

So power in the word no. Thank you, Simone Biles. Um, I have been saying this for a while to myself, but more now than ever. Just I'm doing the best that I can. That's it. That's all I can offer in any given moment. I'm I'm giving you everything that I have. And that has to be enough.

[44:09] Unknown speaker: Mine is like I am enough and I am on time. So everything's playing out the way it needs to, whether I trust it or not. Mine was uh, which I stole from Bruce Lee, uh, is uh B Line Water, right? I've been reading his daughter's book, and um it's just kind of like go with it. Like everything changes all the time. Like we're in a time of change, and it's bananas, and it's not actually supposed to be feeling secure or well right now. So I try to take a moment here and there, and then the rest of it I just flow with it, whatever it is, like okay, that's today. Okay.

[44:59] Alison: You wanna unmute? It's just something that my mom always used to say. Um, it's that when you're a kid, there's when you're deciding things, there's right and wrong, and there's good things and bad things. But then as you get older, those choices become more difficult, and that there isn't always right and wrong, and there are there are just choices, and so I I'm constantly weighing the scale of what do I do and whatever. And I just have to remind myself that like no matter what, you know, I'm I'm gonna try to make the best choices for my family, and that hopefully they're not gonna be wrong decisions. They're just gonna be choices in different directions. Sometimes it takes the pressure off a little bit.

I feel like uh so much of this is so beautifully resonating with me. Um the the biggest thing for me recently has been you can only control what you can control because so much of life feels out of my control what other decision what people what other people are doing, uh what the world is doing, and um so I try to when I'm feeling very overwhelmed with anxiety about what I can't control, I try to come back to I can only control what I can control and it it helps me center myself to decide uh what I'm going to do next with what I can control for myself or or my kids or my job or whatever. Um it's not a mantra, but like when people start to get on my nerves, I'm a beautiful black goddess. It is an honor for you to share my space, and if you cannot respect the space, then you must exit, or I will have to toss you over.

It's just that period point blank. I cannot in this in this temperature in this climate with a four-year-old black son. I cannot tolerate y'all, and I will not. I'm too amazing to be bothered with your foolishness. So stage left, stage right, pick it, exit, boo. That's it.

[47:15] Unknown speaker: I love it. I love it. I I feel it. I mean, I I was I've said before, it's like I turned 40, and especially after this year, I have zero fucks left to give. I have none. None. I don't care. Thank God for this group and thank God for tonight. And asking the question, like what your mantra is. Everything's fucking temporary, right? It's all temporary. And that makes the good a little bit sweeter when it's there. But yeah, it's all temporary. We're at we're at well. I know it's like time to wrap it up, but I we can do this again, you guys. I mean, it's it's lovely just to connect with all of you. Um and as this starts to move forward, it's like we said, this is gonna be an ever shifting, changing thing, right? Who knows what even tomorrow's news holds. So here we are. Um and like I said, let's do it. Let's let's keep being here for one another. Um, we're all sending you love and well wishes and calm and strength and whatever it is you need to get through your day.

[48:25] Cara Cooper: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We started this from Broy Baby Mamas. We started it back at the beginning of the pandemic. We had like a couple of them. I don't know if y'all remember that if anybody was on there. And then I think we all just like went into our, you know what I mean? Like in the beginning, everybody was zooming. Everybody was like, let's do this. Hey, let's get the cast together of the 2000 revival of whatever the 1987 company of falsettos. It's like they were just like doing all the things. And then I feel like we all just sort of retreated for the most part, right? Like to our own little spaces to preserve our selves as best as we could. Um, but thank you for being here tonight.

And we're all for it. We're we're here for talking some more, and um let us know and we'll set it up. And um, yeah, community is everything. If there's one thing that Kara and I have heard over and over in this last 17 months now, which is just amazing, um, is that the sense of community that people feel when we can get together and talk, or to just hear other stories like Rachel said, hearing the stories, that bonds us together and that lifts us up and um and feeds us a little bit. So until we can all be back in the spaces together without without stressing as much. So thanks, ladies. Thank you all for sharing.

[49:56] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mama's Talking Loud. Special shout outs to Justin Squiggs Robertson for our fabulous new graphic. Kristen Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Wardweber for our awesome theme song, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.