This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jessica Rush: Hi y'all, we've got some exciting news over here at MTL.

[0:03] Jessica Rush: We now have merch!

[0:05] Jessica Rush: Oh man, Kara and I have worked so hard to design items that would be helpful in the juggle and struggle of the hashtag mom life, and we so hope you'll find something you love.

[0:15] Jessica Rush: Please check out our shop at Mamas Dash Talkin' dash loud dash podcast.

[0:20] Jessica Rush: My shopify.com.

[0:22] Jessica Rush: Or if you need something easier, just go to our Instagram profile at Mama's Talkin' Loud and shop in our Insta store.

[0:29] Jessica Rush: We've got to-do lists, insulated mugs, fanny packs, and so much more.

[0:34] Jessica Rush: We would love it if you would find something that you will use in your day-to-day life and get joy from.

[0:40] Jessica Rush: Get them before they're gone.

[0:42] Jessica Rush: Have a good one. Thanks.

[0:45] Jessica Rush: Hi everyone.

[0:46] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud.

[0:49] Jessica Rush: I'm Jessica Rush. Today's guest is the daughter of icon legend, feminist, activist, and sex symbol Eartha Kitt.

[0:57] Jessica Rush: She joins me for a special Santa Baby holiday episode.

[1:02] Jessica Rush: After meeting while I was on tour with her mother Eartha, we reconnect here to discuss her best-selling memoir, Eartha & Kitt: A Daughter’s Love Story in Black & White.

[1:12] Jessica Rush: Kitt shares the incredible bond she and her mother had, how important humanity and the betterment of it was to Eartha, several Kittisms to take away in your own life, and how her connection with her mother influenced her own motherhood journey.

[1:27] Jessica Rush: Here is my conversation with Kitt Shapiro.

[1:45] Jessica Rush: We've got them. Mama's talking life.

[1:46] Jessica Rush: Mama's talking proud.

[1:49] Jessica Rush: Mama talking chat.

[1:51] Jessica Rush: Mama's talking to it's been a few decades.

[1:58] Kitt Shapiro: Hi.

[2:00] Kitt Shapiro: I can't believe it's been decades, but yes.

[2:03] Kitt Shapiro: That's crazy.

[2:04] Kitt Shapiro: That's crazy.

[2:04] Kitt Shapiro: You guys, this is a super special episode for me.

[2:07] Kitt Shapiro: It's really exciting.

[2:09] Kitt Shapiro: I'm here.

[2:09] Kitt Shapiro: Well, first off, I should let you know, Kara's not here today because Kara has been taken down with the sickness, as is everyone right now, I feel like, and it's all over the place running rampant.

[2:20] Jessica Rush: So it's just my, it's just me today.

[2:22] Jessica Rush: It's just myself.

[2:23] Jessica Rush: Um, but I am here with Kitt Shapiro.

[2:26] Jessica Rush: And I met Kitt when I was 19 years old when I was on the national tour of Cinderella with her mom, Eartha, who ended up being my fairy godmother in so many ways.

[2:38] Jessica Rush: Um, so this is a super special episode to get to have you on Kitt and to speak about your memoir and your mom and share some memories.

[2:46] Jessica Rush: And so welcome.

[2:47] Kitt Shapiro: Thank you so much for taking the time.

[2:48] Kitt Shapiro: Thank you.

[2:49] Kitt Shapiro: Thank you.

[2:49] Kitt Shapiro: It's good to see you.

[2:50] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, you just mentioned it's been decades, so it doesn't, in some ways, it just feels like it was, you know, just a few years ago.

[2:56] Kitt Shapiro: So, uh, it's good to see you again.

[2:58] Jessica Rush: For sure, for sure.

[2:59] Jessica Rush: Well, we always start out every episode asking um about our guest children, because it's not often that we talk about our own children within this sort of, you know, the entertainment industry at large, and in life, moms sort of just keep moving ahead and moving forward.

[3:15] Jessica Rush: So will you tell us about your children before we jump in?

[3:18] Kitt Shapiro: So I have um four in total, two biological children and two stepchildren, and my son, um Jason is 31 years old, which just is mind boggling in itself, but I have a thirty-one year old.

[3:33] Kitt Shapiro: Uh, he is uh, he lives in Los Angeles.

[3:37] Kitt Shapiro: He's in the um, in the sports entertainment field.

[3:40] Kitt Shapiro: In fact, he just did a, I'm very proud mom because he just sold uh a company, a startup.

[3:47] Kitt Shapiro: Um, that's been, it's a pretty, pretty, pretty cool thing.

[3:49] Kitt Shapiro: He's followed his passion and um, sports has always been his passion and then, and music.

[3:54] Kitt Shapiro: And so he's made it, he's made it a career, which is pretty, pretty cool.

[3:57] Kitt Shapiro: Um, my daughter Rachel uh is following in her grandmother's footsteps.

[4:01] Kitt Shapiro: She is a singer-songwriter.

[4:02] Kitt Shapiro: She too lives in Los Angeles.

[4:04] Kitt Shapiro: Um, I thought I made them much more dependent than they are, but um, they moved as far away from me as they possibly could.

[4:11] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and my stepdaughter lives with uh her sister with Rachel.

[4:15] Kitt Shapiro: Um, she is um in investment banking and is getting her um masters in um family um therapy.

[4:25] Kitt Shapiro: And my stepson who lives back here back east um in New York, uh is a tennis instructor.

[4:31] Kitt Shapiro: So, uh, and he's also 31 years old.

[4:33] Kitt Shapiro: So we've got um 31, two boys, 31 and um a girl, thirty, twenty-eight and my daughter who's twenty-six.

[4:41] Kitt Shapiro: Wow.

[4:42] Kitt Shapiro: So it's been a full house and during COVID, you know, they were all home.

[4:45] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, when we, you know, when everybody shut down, they all came back.

[4:48] Jessica Rush: Oh, how was that, mama?

[4:50] Kitt Shapiro: It was good.

[4:51] Kitt Shapiro: It was really, really good.

[4:53] Kitt Shapiro: I, it's so nice having everybody around and it's, you know, especially since they, the three of them are living on the West Coast.

[4:59] Kitt Shapiro: It was really nice to have everybody, you know, in our, in their childhood home.

[5:03] Jessica Rush: I'm sure.

[5:04] Jessica Rush: Oh, I bet.

[5:04] Jessica Rush: It's so wonderful.

[5:06] Jessica Rush: Uh, as you were talking about Jason and Rachel, I was thinking there's actually a picture on your Instagram from I believe Mother's's Day this year, but uh of them about the age I think when I met you guys or when I knew you, or when I saw y'all in my world.

[5:20] Jessica Rush: And to think that now they're 30 and late 20.

[5:23] Kitt Shapiro: It's just, what, it's just what I'm saying.

[5:25] Kitt Shapiro: I know, right?

[5:26] Kitt Shapiro: Because they were on, they were always backstage or, you know, on tour.

[5:29] Kitt Shapiro: It's Cinderella.

[5:30] Kitt Shapiro: They were, you know, um, my, in fact, my mother's assistant, Jackie Harris.

[5:35] Kitt Shapiro: I remember Jackie um would always take, you know, Jason and Rachel around, and they would be um during the last scene where um, I don't remember what she, the she does.

[5:47] Kitt Shapiro: There's a quick change.

[5:48] Kitt Shapiro: I can't remember what it was.

[5:49] Kitt Shapiro: And I remember Rachel always being, you know, tucked in the corner with Jackie and helping.

[5:53] Kitt Shapiro: It was, you know, they grew up, they grew up backstage.

[5:55] Kitt Shapiro: It was fun.

[5:56] Jessica Rush: Amazing.

[5:56] Jessica Rush: It's amazing.

[5:57] Jessica Rush: Well, let's, let's get started on talking about why you're here, which is to talk about your incredible mother.

[6:04] Jessica Rush: Um, but you wrote a memoir this year, and it was released um this past Mother's's Day, correct?

[6:09] Kitt Shapiro: It's called Eartha & Kitt: A Daughter’s Love Story in Black & White.

[6:14] Jessica Rush: And I, I haven't been able to read the whole thing, but I started reading it after it was sent to me when we knew we were going to be talking, and um, and I was moved to tears in the first chapter.

[6:24] Jessica Rush: I just, it's such a beautiful, it truly is a love letter to your mother, I feel like, and to the relationship that the two of you had.

[6:31] Jessica Rush: It, um, for anyone who, I don't know if you're living under a rock, or maybe you're a millennial and you're just discovering Eartha Kitt.

[6:39] Jessica Rush: But um, a big reason why Kitt is here at this time of year is that one of the things your mother was known for was Santa Baby, of course, which who doesn't know the song Santa Baby.

[6:50] Jessica Rush: Um, we hear it constantly at the holidays.

[6:53] Kitt Shapiro: I also, though, something we didn't talk about um before you arrived was we are coming up on the anniversary of your mother's death on Christmas.

[7:03] Kitt Shapiro: Right.

[7:03] Kitt Shapiro: Which is, my mother died on Christmas Day, which you know, the irony of that is not lost on me or anyone who knew her, because it's, uh, she so, it's like she, you know, she, she wanted to make sure that she, people remember that she was the one who originated the song Santa Baby.

[7:19] Kitt Shapiro: It was written for her in 1953.

[7:22] Jessica Rush: And I just, um, you know, I talk about it in the book that it, you know, I mean, it, it was, it obviously was very, that it was heartbreaking and sad that she died that day, but there was a, there was a comical, you know, sort of this, this moment of, of when I looked at my husband and I went and I was like, well, you knew that was gonna happen.

[7:40] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, talk about timing.

[7:42] Kitt Shapiro: I remember that.

[7:43] Kitt Shapiro: I remember um, a mutual friend, Kevin Duda, he called me because he had been close with Eartha towards the end as well.

[7:50] Kitt Shapiro: And he, my phone rang on Christmas Day.

[7:52] Kitt Shapiro: And I remember when I saw his name, I thought that I knew what it was.

[7:55] Kitt Shapiro: I just, I just knew it.

[7:57] Kitt Shapiro: And then I thought, how wild, how wild, of course, of course.

[8:02] Kitt Shapiro: Someone who has known, you know, so many people know her because of Santa Baby, and we hear her voice every holiday season.

[8:09] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[8:10] Kitt Shapiro: What, what timing?

[8:12] Kitt Shapiro: How incredible.

[8:13] Kitt Shapiro: You know, and I feel like, and she was always laughing.

[8:15] Kitt Shapiro: Like that's what I think about with your mother.

[8:16] Kitt Shapiro: She was always laughing and loved to joke around and, and mess around and tease and all the things.

[8:22] Kitt Shapiro: I just felt like it was a giant.

[8:26] Kitt Shapiro: Exactly.

[8:27] Kitt Shapiro: She was like, you're never gonna forget me now.

[8:29] Kitt Shapiro: You know what I mean?

[8:30] Kitt Shapiro: Exactly, exactly.

[8:32] Kitt Shapiro: It's just exactly what I thought.

[8:34] Kitt Shapiro: You know, I was with her as she died or transitioned, however you want to look at that moment.

[8:39] Kitt Shapiro: And I remember thinking that same thing now, that's the same exact thing.

[8:42] Kitt Shapiro: It's like, wow, you are talking, you made sure that you left this planet, you know, with a huge statement.

[8:48] Jessica Rush: Exactly, exactly.

[8:49] Kitt Shapiro: Of course, nothing less.

[8:51] Jessica Rush: Um, so tell us in there, um, in I read that you, that Eartha requested for you to write this memoir.

[8:58] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and will you sort of take us on the journey?

[9:01] Kitt Shapiro: I can't imagine.

[9:02] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, it's been now almost 13 years since she did transition, and um, how was it easy for you to write this story?

[9:02] Kitt Shapiro: Was it easy for you to put this down to paper to relive those memories?

[9:15] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, you and your mother were incredibly close, as you speak about in the book.

[9:20] Kitt Shapiro: Right, and you knew and you, you witnessed that, and, and people who knew her or who heard and ever heard her talk knew um how she felt about me, um, which of course I was incredibly blessed to have had a mother who was so incredibly devoted and loved me so much.

[9:37] Kitt Shapiro: Um, she did want me to write a book.

[9:39] Kitt Shapiro: I think, you know, she'd wanted me to write a book years before she passed, even um, she felt that she, she actually said to me the last few months of her life, you know, I don't let who I am die with me, you know.

[9:54] Kitt Shapiro: My work, my, my recordings, my movies, you know, all of that will live on in perpetuity.

[10:00] Kitt Shapiro: But who I was as a person um is for you to carry on that legacy and to sort of to take what you know, the teachings and, and the love and, and the devotion that I gave you and share that with the world.

[10:14] Kitt Shapiro: And I, and so, you know, that's really why uh this book is so important, and it really is, it's really a tribute uh and a love story, because she was such an incredible human being, and, and she was an incredible uh teacher and parent, and, and all of that was, it was really instinctive because she was an orphan, so she didn't have uh, you know, any role models, so to speak.

[10:39] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and so I think it's a really, when you, I'm so glad that you, you were touched by what you read because that's was my purpose in writing this.

[10:39] Kitt Shapiro: My mother happened to be famous, you know, but we also have, we all have a legacy of some type.

[10:39] Kitt Shapiro: We all have somebody in our lives whose cross our, you know, whose paths we've crossed that have had an impact on us and, and so these stories to tell on, on the importance of these lessons that these people in our lives teach us and pass along to us I think are really, really important to for others to, to know and to share.

[10:39] Jessica Rush: That's absolutely, I agree.

[10:39] Jessica Rush: And she was so wise.

[10:39] Jessica Rush: I mean, this is something that, and that comes through when you've, when you knew her and um, and to be around her and she did love you so much.

[11:28] Jessica Rush: I mean, y'all were around constantly, you know, and you talk about this in the book that from the minute you could travel she was taking you with her and there's a photo that I saw um in my research this morning of her holding you when you're a baby at an airport it looks like and maybe you're like on um, like on the sidewalk outside of an airport and the joy on her face and I could just imagine you guys like here we go on an adventure, you know, it was clear that she adored having you with her and being able to show you.

[12:02] Kitt Shapiro: Yeah, she would say I'd put my baby on one hip and the diaper bag on the other and off we would go and in her, and that to her that was really all she needed.

[12:02] Kitt Shapiro: It's true, she, she made it very clear all I need is my child with me and her world was complete.

[12:17] Kitt Shapiro: You would say, I'm Eartha, and this is Kitt.

[12:20] Kitt Shapiro: And you know, she used to introduce us at times.

[12:20] Kitt Shapiro: As if I completed her somehow.

[12:22] Kitt Shapiro: And I think in many ways I really did.

[12:24] Kitt Shapiro: I gave her this foundation, this family that she never had as an orphan.

[12:29] Kitt Shapiro: And I gave her, you know, a connection to and the her ability to teach and to love and to show.

[12:35] Kitt Shapiro: And she was incredibly affectionate.

[12:37] Kitt Shapiro: Um, you know, it wasn't just about um teaching and, and you know, and, and put and stay making, exposing me to the world.

[12:46] Kitt Shapiro: She really showed me how she loved, you know, how much she loved me.

[12:49] Kitt Shapiro: And she would say, you can never love a child too much.

[12:53] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and, and she's right, and that's all we all want, right?

[12:57] Kitt Shapiro: We all just want to be accepted and to be loved.

[12:59] Kitt Shapiro: And she gave me that, and, and I was truly blessed.

[13:01] Kitt Shapiro: And as I say to people, you know, blessings are meant to be shared, and, and that is why I share them.

[13:06] Jessica Rush: Oh my gosh.

[13:07] Jessica Rush: Well, I think it's lovely, and thank you for sharing them, because no one knows, no one knew her the way you did.

[13:15] Jessica Rush: And as is so true with all of our parents and our family, there is an intimacy there with your family that can't be replicated by anyone else in their lives.

[13:24] Kitt Shapiro: Um, because she did love you so much, and because she was so devoted to you and attached in so many ways, there's a weight that comes with that, right?

[13:37] Kitt Shapiro: Of being sort of the everything to your mother or to your parents.

[13:42] Kitt Shapiro: And can you talk to us a little bit about how that perhaps has influenced your own motherhood journey or what that meant to you and how you processed that, or, or what the good and the bad, what you took from it to inform your own journey as a mom?

[13:57] Kitt Shapiro: Yes, I mean, I talked about that, you know, and I, as I s, as I talk about the relationship, it sounds like it was just, you know, nirvana and, and pristine.

[14:06] Kitt Shapiro: It wasn't.

[14:06] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, we were mother-daughter.

[14:08] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, I rolled my eyes at, you know, at her, just like my teenage kids rolled their eyes at me.

[14:13] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, there, and there were many times, you know, when we would drive down the road and she'd be driving and she'd be talking and I would just wish that her door would open and she'd roll out into traffic.

[14:21] Kitt Shapiro: I mean, you know, I was a typical teenager and a typical daughter and in, and it just, but that being said, um, you know, the, the lessons and, and I, and the blessings that I, that I have I was able to understand at an early age and that it's, you know, I'm very, I'm very grateful for that.

[14:38] Kitt Shapiro: Um, you know, it's interesting that you talk about it's a weighty. I mean, yeah, I carry her name, right? You know, and being loved that much and being so important to a parent is not easy. It certainly wasn't easy as a teenager and it certainly wasn't easy as a young adult. I felt, it's not that I felt smothered, it's just I felt incredible guilt at times. Um, because you know, I'd want to hang out with my friends, you know, as teenagers do, or I'd want to have my own life or get married. You know, I mean, that's not an easy thing to do. My parents divorced when I was very young. Um, and I really, even when they were married, I mean, it really was, you know, it was just my mother and I, you know.

Uh, as you mentioned, I traveled with her, which was wonderful. I was exposed to incredible experiences in my life. Um, but the times when I wanted to not travel, uh, came, you know, was not an easy thing to say to her, you know, I don't really want to go to wherever, blah, blah, blah. Um, I want to stay home. Uh, and that was so hard. So, you know, I think that there's a sense of responsibility, especially when you're a daughter. I think mothers and daughters have a very unique relationship. Um, I felt, you know, I needed to take care of my mother in many ways, you know. You know, there's a role reversal that happens, I often think, with mothers and daughters. Um, at some time, you know, where you just become the mother, and then the mother is, you know, you're sort of saying that doesn't make any sense and it shouldn't be like that, and you know, and your mother's got, you know, becoming the teenager.

I don't know. But yeah, yeah, so yeah, there were moments in our lives when we had struggles, but luckily, we had that foundation of incredible love. And I think that really does make you know, you were able to get past anything with that.

[16:27] Jessica Rush: For sure, for sure. And your mother definitely had a lot of love. It was, you know, I think often of her. She actually does come up in my thoughts and memories more often than probably anyone would think, because she had such an impact on my life. She, I say she was my fairy godmother, and in a lot of ways she was. But when I started my journey, that was my first big job, my first show, and I was the understudy. And as people in our business know, you know, they say there's no first and second cover, but there is, and they know who they're gonna put on first. And for a long time I was not it, and they wouldn't put me on, and they wouldn't put me on. And then one day Eartha said to them, "Well, why don't you put on Jessica?

What is happening?" You know, she and I had connected, but she hadn't seen me do anything. She didn't know, you know, if I could follow through or not. But something gave her the faith and the trust. And once she pointed that out, they did put me on, and then ultimately I took over the role and bonded with her on stage and off stage, and her support meant everything. And that was something that I treasure truly because she was the love that she had for her company and for ourselves and for the art that she was creating and also for like her fans. You know, I can remember, I will never forget that Eartha would stand outside in the snow in the rain. She would be out there signing all the autographs, you know.

And this was when she was what, like 76 or something? She was, yeah, she wasn't a spring chicken, you know, and she would stand outside autographing, and people would say, "I can't believe you stand there and do that." And she said, you know, she would say, "These are the people I'm nothing without. Without the fans, they are the reason I'm where I am," you know. And she truly, she truly, truly believed and felt that.

[18:17] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and it's interesting because I look at the things, her belongings that she left behind, right? Um, so much of what she kept were items that her fans had given her. And she could remember, you know, this such and such. This was, you know, in Sweden in such, you know, 1969, and so and so gave it to me, and this is why. And if somebody went out of their way to give something to her, even if it was just a thank you, um, to her, that was, you know, just touched her heart, and it meant so, so much. Um, she was devoted to, as you said, she was always devoted to members of her company because it was a big family, right? Uh, I mean, any entertainment entity that works together for long periods of time, um, or any, it doesn't even be entertainment, but you know, it becomes especially when you travel together and the buses and you know, trains and airplanes and weird hotels.

And I'll never forget, we were traveling on Christmas Day, and I was in the airport on a pay phone because this was the year 2001 or 2000. It was the first Christmas, so it was 2000. And um, I was on a pay phone against the wall talking to my parents. First Christmas, I wasn't with them. And here she comes to get on the plane. And she just walked right over to me, grabbed the phone out of my hand, and leaned down and said, "Merry Christmas." And then she growled. I can't, I'm not even gonna try because I can never, no one can replicate that. But like, and my father, and then just handed the phone back to me. And my father on the other end about died. You know what I mean? Like that's hysterical.

[20:07] Jessica Rush: It's so funny to see her, you know, because here we are just in this airport doing the thing, and she's Eartha Kitt. I mean, she's an icon. And you say this, I see on your Instagram, daughter of an icon, and that is who she was to everyone else. But she was mom to you, you know, and I think that there's so much, like you were saying how much she treasured things that fans gave her and the like. I think that you mentioned that she did grow up in poverty. She grew up an orphan in the south, and she had very little and was abandoned by her mother and did not know who her father was. And that was something she still talked about. That informed so much of who she was. And she owned that, right? She didn't want to let go of that, which there were times in our lives when I would say to her, "Why just why are you holding on to that?

Like, let it go." And she looked at me and she would just be like, "Why would I let it go? It's who I am. It's part of what made me become the person I am today." So even those difficult times, and you touched on it, and then I talk about it in the book, and they were more than just difficult. I mean, they were some brutal, horrifying things that happened to her. She grew up in, she was born in South Carolina in a little town called North South Carolina. Um, there was some real brutality down there towards her. Um, but it really, you know, where the one thing she would say is, "I've taken all of the manure that's been thrown on me my entire life and used it as fertilizer." And she did. She held on to everything.

She loved the fact that she was this cotton picker from the south that she would always say, and she said that to literally the day she died, with a sense of pride, you know, it's what who she was, and gave her the backbone, you know, she needed to survive the world that she was thrust into.

[22:01] Jessica Rush: It's true, and she was Cherokee, right? Part Cherokee as well. She talked about that. I also have Cherokee in my lineage, um, farther back. And she loved that. When she found that out, that was like a massive, a massive thing for us, you know. Because she initially, when I first met her, you know, she talked about how she said, "You have the similar coloring of my daughter." Like she had, you know, she said, "I look at you, you have very similar coloring. You know, what is your lineage? What is your background?" And for at that time, all I knew about was a little Cherokee and not much else, but other than, you know, Welsh and French. And um, she said, "It's the Cherokee, that's our people," you know.

She would say, and she looked me up. But it was just, it was crazy that it was lovely and wonderful the connections that she would have. And in this book, you talk about, let's go, let's talk about some of that. It's how she was viewed in the world. She was viewed as a black woman, right? Even though she was mixed race. And here you are, you're blonde, you're light skinned, because your father is German, right? Or Irish?

[23:07] Kitt Shapiro: German Irish, yeah. Because white as they get, yeah.

[23:09] Jessica Rush: Right, right. And for the two of you to travel at a time, you talk about going to South Africa during apartheid and during a time where the freedoms weren't there that they were in America. You specifically, one of the stories about going to an amusement park with your mother and being kicked out because they said she wasn't allowed to be there. And how she reacted to that, which was not with anger and malice, right? She just picked her head up, walked out.

[23:41] Kitt Shapiro: And then, you know, that because I think that's who she was.

[23:44] Jessica Rush: It is. I mean, I think unfortunately, we're living here in 2021, and I have people now with social media who are able to, well, what do we call them? Trolls, to be true, you know, troll-like, and make comments behind, you know, a screen and a username. And there are people who say to me, "You can't possibly be her biological child. There's no way that she gave birth to you. She clearly lied to you. You were obviously adopted." Um, and I want to laugh because a, if you've seen my mother and I, we actually do look alike. Yeah, I have a lot of my mother's features, but people don't want to see past, you know, blonde hair and light skin and light eyes. Um, and then my second response to them is, you know, on what planet do you think, you know, a black woman could have adopted a white baby in 1961?

I mean, you know, let's be real, or even today for that matter. So, you know, you look at their, even today, the differences, and that's kind of why I titled the book A Love Story in Black and White, because um, there is this color difference, this, you know, the of our skin. And my mother's experience in the world is very different than my experience in the world because we look so different. Now, that being said, by the time I was born, my mother was already very famous. So people are more impressed with fame than they are worried about race in the moment. You know, I always try to say to people, if Beyoncé walked into a room or LeBron James walked into a room, you know, with a bunch of racists, they would be like, "Oh my god, it's Beyoncé or LeBron James."

They wouldn't think about there's a black person in the room. So there's a piece that people overcome for fame. But my mother wasn't always famous, and not everybody always recognizes you. And so her treatment in life was very different, especially uh coming into, you know, the entertainment world in the late 40s, 50s, and 60s as a beautiful um woman of color. Um, so but the way she handled the, you know, those situations was my mother felt you could have much more impact um by sort of taking a beat and staying, you know, before you react, instead of, you know, screaming and yelling, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Eartha Kitt," and whatever, whatever, whatever, that you know, she would always look at me and she would say, "Uh-uh-uh, you know, don't panic.

Everything happens for a reason. God may not be there when you want him, but he's always on time." And the situation you referred to in South Africa, uh, where we were thrown out of an amusement park that I had been going to because my coloring, nobody with my tutor, nobody had questioned my ability, you know, to be there. Um, when my mother came one day with me because I'd been begging her to go to this amusement park with me, um, the gentleman who worked there obviously didn't know who she was and didn't really care. Uh, it was, you know, she was a person of color and it was a whites-only park. So he asked her to leave and she, uh, she obliged and stood up and walked out. And I'm saying to her, "Tell him who you are, you know, tell him you're allowed to be here, you're a VIP in this country."

Uh, and she knew somehow on some level that she could have a more impactful, you know, make a more impact by taking a beat and not saying anything in the moment. And that actually happened a few days later when she was being photographed in front of this amusement park by the press, and she made a little comment saying, "Oh, it's so funny. I was thrown out of that amusement park the other day." And of course, the press was like, "What do you mean you were thrown out of the amusement park? Blah blah blah." And they contacted the owner, and he was, you know, so apologetic and embarrassed. And he said, "You know, oh Miss Kitt, the gentleman who worked there, he didn't know who you were, and I'm so sorry, what can we do?"

And she said, "Well, you know, we're raising money to, you know, for to build schools for um, you know, African children, so a donation to this um charity would be wonderful. And my daughter would love to come back to the amusement park with bring some friends." And he's like, "Of course, anything you want." And so he sent a check for the, you know, donation, and he sent tickets so we could go back to the amusement park. And when we did, my mother brought, you know, two children who were African children, two colored children, to white children, and that was photographed uh by the press. So, and that photograph, you know, has such an impact given the times of, you know, apartheid and that moment in time didn't affect that much change, you know.

I mean, the laws didn't change and many people's opinions probably didn't change, but she had that tri, she knew that that somehow that trickle effect could affect somebody differently. Maybe one of those children were affected differently, the owner was affected, you know, so she understood that we're all teachers, uh, no matter how small it may be, no matter how tiny, um, that if we all do one little thing that's positive, um, and over time, you know, the ripple effect will affect change.

[28:09] Jessica Rush: That's true, I mean, it's absolutely true. It's what we try to, I try to teach Elliot, my daughter, and you know, I always say stand up and speak out if no one's saying anything. If no one is making a statement that there won't be change. We can't work towards change if we don't point out what needs to be adjusted and fixed and made right. And so much of who your mother was, um, was that passionate activist that was a huge part of her life. And I mean, people, you know, if you don't know about Eartha, obviously her standing up against and speaking out against the Vietnam War created quite a, well, she was kicked out of the, she always said she was kicked out of the country, you know, once she stood up and spoke out at the White House to Lady Bird Johnson about the Vietnam War and her thoughts on it.

[29:24] Kitt Shapiro: And I think that what I take from her is just how passionate she was about the human experience, about humanity and about right and wrong because yes, she was this icon and she was the sex symbol and she was all these things, but her core and her root was very fair, was um very uh loving and I feel like she approached the world in that mindset as opposed to I have to prove this, I have to... she never did. She didn't prove anything, no, no, and oh sorry by the phone, but um the what's interesting is that um when you know and I again I titled the book uh a love story in black and white um because there is this sort of simplistic view my mother had about humanity and there is a right way, you know, it's very simple, there's a right way and a wrong way to treat people.

You treat people with respect, period, no matter what they look like, no matter you know who they are, um no matter what level of success that they have attained or not attained, whatever their job may be. Um my mother felt that to treat people differently because of the color of their skin was a preposterous, you know, ideal that we had taken on uh in our society um and that to her was the real part that humans need to be able to get past that we have the ability to be kind to each other, right? As animals we can be kind, we can choose uh how we treat each other and to her that was of the utmost um talk about manners and she believed in proper manners, but that was to her the most important thing that you need to be uh treat each other kindly.

Don't have this whole like you know we need to love each other and blah you know kumbaya, she said you have to love each other, you just have to respect that we all have a right to be here and period, the end, right? That's it's very simple um and to that, she would stand up for the underdog, no matter who it was, no matter what their, you know, their difficulties were.

[31:39] Kitt Shapiro: She always believed, and she always also believed that um if somebody asked her your opinion, then they actually wanted to hear it.

[31:47] Jessica Rush: Which is often not the case.

[31:50] Kitt Shapiro: They often ask me the story or not on the podcast that I can share with you. So yeah, so you know.

[31:59] Jessica Rush: Yes, she would really let you know her opinion.

[32:01] Kitt Shapiro: And she, you know, she was in a in a she was lucky that she had established, you know, become successful enough where people listened to her. Um, and but she also felt you didn't have to be famous, like you said, to to be, you know, to make a difference in your own world, or to the person sitting next to you, or the person you might encounter. A smile, a thank you, you know, a holding the door. Very, very simple um moves that can that can affect somebody, the change in somebody else's day.

[32:33] Jessica Rush: Yeah, absolutely. It's um the manners when you were talking just now about how she was a believer in manners and um punctuality. I was thinking back to uh she would sit in her dressing room, needlepointing, which that's something you talk about in the book as well. She was a big needle pointer, crocheting, if I recall, like there was like at one point, I swear to god, they were voodoo dolls kit, just like lined up along her couch.

[32:58] Kitt Shapiro: Yeah, just like all along her couch in her dressing room. Um, but she would sit backstage and she would have the radio on, listening to politics, but at the same time, she would be listening to the show. You would think she wasn't paying attention to either one because she's needlepointing or she's working on something. She didn't miss anything. You could not get anything past that woman. And if somebody was messing around on stage, you better believe she was gonna tell you you gotta stop that once she saw you next, because she would hear it.

[33:26] Jessica Rush: Yeah, you heard everything.

[33:28] Kitt Shapiro: And the respect though that she came into the room with regard to our jobs and with each other, that filtered down. You know, I think it's it there's something that's sort of being lost nowadays. People are so casual, people are so selfish in a lot of ways, they think about themselves, even in the environment of theater, and we're all supposed to be a team. Some of that's being lost. And I think about Eartha or when I did Gypsy with Patty Lapone, like there are people who set a standard and a bar with regard to the work we're doing, and they expect everyone to come up to it. And because of the bar they set, people do rise. And your mother was one of those. As a human and as an actor, she set a bar and an expectation, and you wanted to rise to her expectations.

[34:15] Kitt Shapiro: It's so true, it's so true. She again that comes back down to respect, right? I mean, respect for each other, respect for the director, respect for um the elders in the company, respect for the fact that we've all got a job to do and that we should be punctual. Punctuality was something that was really important to her.

[34:34] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[34:34] Kitt Shapiro: Um, and to and to know, you know, your role and your lines and you and do have done your homework. Um, you know, she was really she had very little patience for those people who showed that they didn't really care. Um, because to her, that was a slap in the face to to who she was, as well as it's not just because you know, I'm oh I'm Martha Kid, it's because who she was is how many years she's been, you know, she was the elder usually in a cast, but it was also a slap in the face to the directors and the writers and and everyone else who showed up on time or and who knew their who who knew their lines and who knew the what they were supposed to do. So sh my mother was a stickler for um f for manners, um, not because she felt not because of their frivolo they're frivolous in any way, but because they're a form of respect and treating each other with kindness.

[35:24] Jessica Rush: Absolutely.

[35:24] Kitt Shapiro: She um I think about these, you call them kit isms. And I do believe, I mean, you've already dropped a few of them here while we've been talking, and I did I should have like a dinging bell and be like, another kidism, another kidism. But um later, what about you can never love a child enough or Dodge shows up, you know, on top I I'm paraphrasing you there, or her don't panic, right? Don't panic was I would think a number one for her.

[35:52] Kitt Shapiro: And I've seen that um for anyone who isn't aware that Kit also not only she owns a store, she is a local small business owner, woman, female owned business. We're here for it. Um Westport, Connecticut. It's called West, correct?

[36:05] Jessica Rush: On Instagram.

[36:06] Kitt Shapiro: Yes. And then she also, though, years ago, you've been ha you've had this now for a while, simply Eartha. That's on Instagram as well.

[36:12] Jessica Rush: And that's jewelry, right?

[36:14] Kitt Shapiro: That's accessible yeah, it's accessories that say something, and they're my mother's words and um and I've and I use them in in different area, you know, w with between pillows and some jewelry and some t shirts and things. And it is really about um a conversation, because my mother was very much about the art of conversation and really conversing with each other, um, not just you know, giving, you know, but you know, just just sort of fluffing people off or telling them what they want to hear. She really wanted to know what you had to say and how you felt and and and wanted to get into a deep conversation about it. So I love that her her kidisms as we as she coined them, they were coined. I mean, I think I know as far as um the company of Cinderella, I believe it was either Kevin Duda or somebody else that had done made a list of them.

[36:59] Jessica Rush: Yes.

[36:59] Kitt Shapiro: And I think so people had them on a t shirt.

[37:04] Jessica Rush: Yes, that's right. I remember that.

[37:06] Kitt Shapiro: And and because you know whether she had whether she made them up herself or she once she said them they were hers and you know and she felt that you know these were things that got people thinking and got people talking and that to her was a great way to to get to know each other and to learn about each other.

[37:24] Jessica Rush: Absolutely I love don't panic. I mean I think nowadays particularly that's one that's sort of a mantra for a lot of people.

[37:31] Kitt Shapiro: Oh my goodness don't panic.

[37:33] Jessica Rush: Something I want to touch on before we start to close a little bit though is we sort of said it earlier is how silly and how joyous and joyful your mother was. And that is something that I think about constantly she also kept herself in incredible shape. I will never forget her warm up which is it literally was like I mean literally the sound was incredible but also physically she would squat down and up to the ground she jumped I mean this woman was in her mid 70s and more you know live and um and uh able to do more than a lot of us can do at you know 35 or 40. And it was always with a laugh. Like she I just remember so much laughter and so much love from her and and I just I don't I don't have much more to say about it than that.

It just was when I think of her I think about joy. And I think about support and I think about love. And I I remember I was doing, I was doing Mama Mia on tour. I had, it was my second job after Cinderella, and I was in the ensemble and I was understudying the lead. So I wasn't, you know, I didn't have any lines. I was in the ensemble dancing. And Kevin called me and he said, Eartha wants to come see you. And I said, No, no, Kevin. I was like, I'm I'm in the ensemble. And he's like, She wants to drive to Boston. I'm gonna bring her to Boston. We're gonna come see you. And I and so it was only like my first week in the show. And somebody you could see her on the screen, like where they were sitting, and people are like, Earth the kid is here.

Eartha Kitt is here. And people said, Yeah, she's here to see Jessica. And they was like, wait, what? What are you doing? But it meant so much. You know, she drove up with Kevin to Boston to come see me in the ensemble, you know. It the love and devotion she had to the people that she chose. And you obviously got all of that.

[39:32] Kitt Shapiro: But it was super.

[39:33] Jessica Rush: I did, but but I think it also shows that she had respect for it, doesn't matter what role you're playing in a company. And to her, everybody has that there it's you know, we're all little, you know, it's all part of the um what's the what's the the game that everybody where you stack the the blocks on top of each other.

[39:52] Kitt Shapiro: Yeah, and so you know it's all Tetris, right? So it's it's that's how important everybody is, that even if it's a non-speaking role, that it's still it's there for a reason, right? It's there for a reason, and that because of that, it has um, you know, integrity and importance. And and I think it just shows that, you know, how she felt about just everybody on you know on the planet, and that she hoped that we would treat each other that way, that we all have um, you know, there's a quick story before we close. When I was a little girl and we were in the garden and there was a slug, you know, crawling along on the ground, and slugs are really not the most attractive little creatures. And I would say to her, you know, oh mommy, that's so gross, you've got to kill it.

And she looked at me, she said, You don't have any right to kill it. You don't have to like the way it looks, but it has every it has a right to be here, just like you have a right to be here. So why would you s think that you can get rid of something just because it doesn't look as appealing to you as something else that you know, and I remember thinking as as I got older, like what what does that say to a child? You know, how does that that's that impression you giving this child about how important it is to accept everything and every being that's you know that's on this planet. And she did have joy for it all. And she taught me that you know, humor is the most is is the most incredible blessing that we have, you know.

Uh, as human beings, we are we can have humor, we can find humor. Hopefully, we can find humor in in moments when we don't feel that there's anything to laugh about or any, you know, all we want to do is cry. Um, and she brought that. She you know, I remember the day she died, you know, even being able to laugh with her, um, because that's to her was was such a gift, and and she did bring that. And people who were around her always knew that she was laughing and finding a smile. She said, if you wake up and you're breathing, you're winning. You're winning. It's something to be happy about, you know. That's that's just just be joyful about that.

[41:54] Jessica Rush: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I love it. I I can't wait to go back and read more. Because like I said, I started and I'm a couple chapters in, but I can't wait to go back and read more. And Kit, thank you for joining us today, and thank you for sharing. It was so it's so nice to reconnect with you. First off, I have to come to Westport and see your shop. But um, thank you for sharing your mom with us and coming on and talking a little bit about how she influenced who you are and the incredible woman you clearly are and the children you've raised and the businesses you run.

[42:24] Kitt Shapiro: And uh thank you.

[42:25] Kitt Shapiro: Thank you for for giving me these moments to share the the times when my mother touched your life, my life, and and uh and be able to smile and and share that love that she brought to all of us.

[42:36] Jessica Rush: For sure, for sure. Have a great holiday.

[42:39] Kitt Shapiro: Thank you.

[42:39] Jessica Rush: Same to you.

[42:40] Kitt Shapiro: Thanks.

[42:41] Jessica Rush: Bye bye.

[42:42] Kitt Shapiro: Bye bye.

[42:48] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mama's Talking Loud. Special shout outs to Justin Squiggs Robertson for our fabulous new graphic. Kristen Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Wardweber for our awesome theme song, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you!