This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jessica Rush: Hi everybody, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:04] Cara Cooper: I'm Cara Cooper.

[0:06] Jessica Rush: And I'm Jessica Rush. The last time we spoke to today's guest, she was deep in the world of new motherhood, pumping in the bathroom at the Tony Awards, and preparing to return to her Tony-nominated role in Jagged Little Pill.

[0:19] Cara Cooper: Today she joins us to discuss what it was like to job share on Broadway, the emotional whiplash that Omicron brought, and how she is learning to balance her career and motherhood moving forward. Here's the conclusion of our Returning Reborn series with Elizabeth Stanley.

[0:35] ♪ Musical number: "Mama's Talkin' Loud" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[1:00] Jessica Rush: Well, well, good morning. Let's jump in, Elizabeth.

[1:02] Cara Cooper: Okay, welcome back.

[1:04] Jessica Rush: Welcome back. It's been, um, I think probably like six months since at least since we talked to you.

[1:13] Cara Cooper: That's well, how old's the baby?

[1:15] Elizabeth Stanley: Well, she's uh just over seven months.

[1:18] Cara Cooper: So that would be about right. Last time she was just like happily sleeping. I was able to hold her, and now I was like, oh, she's not gonna just sit still on my lap anymore.

[1:28] Elizabeth Stanley: No, oh my gosh. Have you sent her out? Is she on a walk or out?

[1:31] Cara Cooper: It's so cold today, though.

[1:34] Elizabeth Stanley: I know. We did, I tried to take her to the park and she was a little like, what's happening?

[1:39] Cara Cooper: Um same. I was like, ah, spring, come on, you could do it. But um, but um no, she's sleeping right now, so we'll see how long that lasts.

[1:49] Cara Cooper: Oh, good. Well, I remember her just cooing and nursing and all the things, and you were in the throes of, you know, the out of space. My husband always says it's like being in outer space, right? Like the outer space mode of the beginning and where time has lost all meaning and is it day, is it night? You're covered in the spit up, all the things, and you were discussing returning to your show.

[2:05] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[2:19] Cara Cooper: And since we spoke with you, you did that, and unfortunately, you're not there anymore because the show closed with the Omicron variant.

[2:33] Elizabeth Stanley: So before that's a whole, there's so much. We're gonna back up a little bit.

[2:36] Cara Cooper: So many layers.

[2:39] Elizabeth Stanley: Yes, so many layers. But we would love to hear how it came about. You touched a little on it last time about sharing the job with Heidi, uh Blinkenstaff.

[2:48] Cara Cooper: And what that was like for you, because obviously this is a conversation that we are deeply interested in and invested in. Um, I know that Amber Gray is role sharing or was role sharing at Hadestown and um or is gonna do that at Macbeth. I'm not sure.

[3:02] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, it's like, yeah, and then that someone in the West End is doing it, an ensemble player. Um, here in America, I think there's a lot more that goes into it. However, to see these principles doing that, yourself and Amber gives us hope, I think. Was that a conversation that was right off the bat they were open to, or did you have to push for that? Will you tell us a little bit about that?

[3:25] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, I definitely had to push for it. I mean, I felt very supported by the creative team, you know, as soon as I said, like, I'm having a baby, everyone was like, Oh my god, and um, you know, and was like, whatever, you know, however, we can support you, we're here. And so that was great because I did feel like I was in a good position to really think about what support looked like for me.

[3:52] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but ultimately I was just like going back to work when she's like two months old or barely two months old just feels, it just felt more extreme than what I wanted to do, right? So I mean, some people have to do that, but I kind of felt like I'm a freelance artist, so it's, you know, I like sometimes you just have to take the work that you have, right? And um, so I didn't want to like not return at all, plus have the show closing as it did and all that we'd been through the last couple of years. Like I was anxious to get back.

[4:25] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, so I wasn't keen to just be like, I'm not going back into the show ever. Um, and I also wasn't keen to be like, I'm gonna wait till she's seven months old or whatever. Um, because I missed the show and it was like breaking my heart to not be there as it reopened.

[4:42] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but I kind of accepted that part of it. And then once I accepted that I wasn't gonna be there for the reopening, it, you know, made it easier for me to wrap my head around like, oh, well, maybe I could continue to not be there full time. Maybe I could continue to, you know, share this with someone else.

[5:01] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, and so when I first brought the idea to the producers, um, they were like, I just don't think that we'll be able to get someone, someone else who wants to only do it part time, you know, like we can't imagine that an actress wouldn't just be like I have to do it the whole time.

[5:19] Elizabeth Stanley: And I was like, really? You're like, really? Cause this schedule is not it, y'all. So I think there's plenty of people that would like more than one day off a week.

[5:29] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[5:30] Elizabeth Stanley: And um, you know, and so the more we talked about it, I I think like it I just explained. I was like, the way that I'm gonna feel supported, and you're saying you want to support me, how what that looks like to me is more time with my child.

[5:46] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, you know, and uh and and so you know, it came to be that it, you know, with Heidi, and I have to say, like, she was just so, is so incredible. Um, generous.

[6:01] Elizabeth Stanley: Like she and I had a really open, really transparent uh relationship all through the rehearsal process because there was so much to unpack. I think every Broadway show that went back into rehearsals was like you're not only putting the show up, but you're like healing and talking and excavating all that has happened in the time since you closed, right?

[6:22] Elizabeth Stanley: In a lot of ways. Um, so some of that we did over Zoom as a company and I was able to participate in that, but then there was a lot of stuff that happened in the room that I wasn't present for.

[6:32] Elizabeth Stanley: And so that kind of stuff I really appreciated, Heidi, like just bringing me into it and saying, if you want to know, if you have the space to hold what's happening in the room, like here are the emotions, this is what's happening with, you know, this person and this person, and these are the conversations that are being had.

[6:47] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, so that was like invaluable. Um and then also same thing, like she was being given creative freedom to kind of make things her own, which is was my dream for her.

[6:59] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but she was also really respectful of like, I know this is your baby that you created, and I don't wanna um disrespect that or change it so much that you come back and you're like, What is this?

[7:12] Cara Cooper: Um that's a really, I mean that's a really classy move.

[7:16] Elizabeth Stanley: I'd like to think that it's a given, but I don't think it is.

[7:19] Cara Cooper: I know it's not.

[7:20] Elizabeth Stanley: And so for her to be so aware and so conscious and conscientious, conscientious, I have my heads aligned in you guys.

[7:28] Elizabeth Stanley: Um to be aware of that and respectful is really, that's classy.

[7:36] Cara Cooper: Yeah, it really, really was.

[7:38] Elizabeth Stanley: And um, you know, and then ultimately also was so like generous.

[7:47] Elizabeth Stanley: Then when I would go back and we'd be like sharing different, like, wait, I can't remember what I did here, or like, you know, Diane keeps giving me a note that I should get a laugh here, but which must mean that you're getting a laugh here.

[7:59] Elizabeth Stanley: Like, what are you doing? You know, so we were having those kind of comments.

[8:03] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, and then also like really honest and vulnerable comments of like, you know, like when I saw the invited dress, you know, I was just like, and then like all the accolades, of course, that like all of our friends were giving her online.

[8:19] Elizabeth Stanley: Like, I was like, oh, there's a part of my ego that's just like, um, and she said the same thing, you know, she's like when we were in rehearsal and Diane was like, you know, Elizabeth's gonna be starting back and rehearsing with me, like, and the whole company was just like, oh, we love her, we can't wait.

[8:35] Elizabeth Stanley: She's like, you know, my ego is a little like, oh, and I think those that particular like vulnerability with each other was probably the most profound one to me because it's easy to kind of put on the good face and be like, I'm gonna be generous with you in some ways.

[8:54] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, that's it's its own kind of hard. But I think it's it's harder to be like, I love you, but I also like care about myself and my career and my, you know, whatever, all the things that we want, and um and sharing is hard, you know.

[9:09] Cara Cooper: Yeah, just acknowledging that it's hard.

[9:11] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, um, but so it it was really great while it lasted, and it was really awesome to feel also that like as a new mom, not knowing what that was gonna be like, it took some of the pressure out, right?

[9:27] Elizabeth Stanley: To go back and um feel like if I get there and I'm just like whoa, this was way harder than I thought it was, or whoa, what if my baby gets sick? Am I gonna be letting everyone down and and stressing the company out by you know calling out frequently or whatever I need to do?

[9:45] Elizabeth Stanley: You just don't know when you become a new parent. And I think each even if you're if even if you already have kids, right? They have another one, like every kid is their own person, and so um I just really really am so grateful that it worked out the way that it did until we closed that the amount of work that you did do, did it feel manageable for you as a new mom?

[10:07] Cara Cooper: Did that kind of job share, you know, um, the emotions aside of what that meant to share a role with someone, but the actual time that was needed of you, did that feel manageable as a new mom? Did you feel like what you fought for um worked for you?

[10:25] Elizabeth Stanley: I think the short answer is yes. I mean, it was still hard, right? So it just it really made me be like, Whoa, people who like didn't have this luxury and were doing it at, you know, eight shows a week. I'm just like, that would have been really, really hard.

[10:39] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, it's hard on our my relationship with Charlie because which we knew it would be, but it it just was it was stressful, like not ever seeing each other and then also not ever having free time either one of us.

[10:53] Elizabeth Stanley: So we, you know, he was working all day and then doing child care at night and then I was doing flip flop and um so that was hard.

[11:00] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, even with the part time. It was, you know, I kind of felt like on the days when I didn't um have the show to go to, I was like, Oh it was really a relief.

[11:11] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but then when I got there I was ha so happy to be there and have that part of myself.

[11:17] Elizabeth Stanley: So I am, I still wouldn't change it, you know, I'm still grateful um that I was able to work.

[11:24] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, and the other thing that was really challenging for me is like I don't have an amazing um milk supply.

[11:32] Elizabeth Stanley: So that was like, I mean, you can always use formula, of course, but like it's, I don't know, it there's always that wasn't what we were doing.

[11:41] Elizabeth Stanley: And so the idea of like changing what we were doing felt stressful in the moment.

[11:46] Elizabeth Stanley: Um and so it's just like whenever I would pump I would get like drops, you know.

[11:52] Elizabeth Stanley: And so that kind of like, oh my gosh, how many minutes I am I gonna be away from her? Are you gonna go through the stash that we have? That was stressful.

[12:00] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, well, and then thus that also affects your supply and then it goes down. I mean, it's all, oh it's wildly stressful.

[12:08] Elizabeth Stanley: I remember like my baby was sleeping through the night, but in order to have enough milk for her when I was back at work, I was waking up in the middle of the night, like she was still waking up and pumping in the middle of the night.

[12:20] Elizabeth Stanley: 'Cause I was like, This is the only way I'm gonna have enough for her.

[12:23] Elizabeth Stanley: Which, which you know, I ended up giving her formula at like twelve months and it was totally fine. It's not a big deal.

[12:30] Elizabeth Stanley: But in that moment it felt so, I don't know, that was the thing I decided to stress out about.

[12:35] Cara Cooper: I know.

[12:42] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. Well how long were you back before it all shut down with Omicron?

[12:51] Cara Cooper: Also wait before we go to that though.

[12:53] Elizabeth Stanley: Oh go ahead.

[12:55] Cara Cooper: What were you gonna say?

[12:55] Elizabeth Stanley: I was gonna ask about coming back to work during COVID with an infant that was not vaccinated amongst all of, you know, I was stressed just going back because Elliot couldn't be vaccinated until the fall, right?

[13:08] Cara Cooper: Because they they didn't approve it till then but like there was a time where Eric was at Waitress and I was at Tina and our child was unvaccinated and to know that these two companies we have to trust the people that they're gonna be as responsible as possible.

[13:23] Elizabeth Stanley: You know, this was at this end of the summer beginning of the fall where we still even though people were vaxxed and boosted that was the first time we were really gathering in these groups and then to be unmasked on stage like I remember that it was a massive um stressor to be honest.

[13:40] Cara Cooper: You know and so I can, there was relief once Elliot was vaccinated and you don't have that option obviously and so you're there singing and having these intimate moments on stage like just with fellow actors as we do and breathing and spitting and you know all the things um how was that?

[14:02] Elizabeth Stanley: I think I was so stressed about so many other things that I wasn't as stressed about that. Our pediatrician had, you know, was very reassuring. Like she, you know, was she's like from what we've seen, it's not severe in babies. And so she made us feel comfortable. I mean, there's still like the thing in the back of your head that's like, what about the long-term things that we don't know and they're so little and you know, but yeah, I wasn't as scared as I know. I definitely had lots of friends who were I think that had like toddlers or young children that were, um, I think more keyed into like the stress about it.

[14:45] Cara Cooper: Isn't it so interesting? You said there I had so many things to be stressed out about. That wasn't one of them. Like that's that's where we live. We're like, well, there's so many things to be stressed out about. These top three are taking the cake right now, but tomorrow may be something else. Like that's just where we are, that's where we live.

[15:02] Elizabeth Stanley: I know.

[15:04] Cara Cooper: Yikes.

[15:05] Elizabeth Stanley: Yikes is right. I was gonna say before we go into the shutdown of Jagged Little Pill, just in case our listeners don't know, which I'm assuming most of them do because they're Broadway people, but you returned to Jagged Little Pill and then it shut down because of COVID cases. Like almost every Broadway show did right around the holidays. Lots of shows had to shut down because there were too many cases. Um, and your show never reopened. Um, whereas many shows did, most shows did. But just in case our listeners didn't know that that's what happened. Can you tell us about that?

[15:38] Elizabeth Stanley: I mean, obviously you were shut down because of COVID, and then how did everything proceed and how did you handle it? Um, I mean, it was a time. It was a time. Uh, I mean it was also the holidays too, which is just like my first, um, my very first show back, actually. Like our COVID officer, I went back in November. I think it was like the middle of November, I think. I know it was before Thanksgiving. Um, she sent me a text like before half hour, and it was like a group text to all the principals that was like, go and get tested immediately. And I was like, Oh my god, is this like the norm? And then she's like, I'll tell you what's going on when you when I see you at the testing site. And so then I saw all the people, and so it was like a person on our crew who was masked, had had a family member test positive, and so she was like, I'm just starting with, you know, part of the cast first while we're waiting on like the other results for that, you know.

So it I just it and it ended up that that day was fine. That person came back negative and whatever, and at the time we thought that was fine. Um, but so I guess I would just say like the whole time I was back, it felt like it was like crazy, you know, the beginning of the end again, right?

[17:04] Elizabeth Stanley: Um my gosh. So it w it just I don't know, it just kind of kept happening. So I remember that when they, um, we knew the night that we were leaving that we were gonna be shut down for a few days. And I remember Catherine Gallagher was like, I'm taking everything home, but she did it in the original shutdown. She was like, We're not coming back. And I was like, Catherine, come on. It'll be so dramatic. I did that too, and everybody was like, Jessica, come on. And then I texted her like two days later, and I was like, I've never been more mad that you're right. Like, um, because I was like, but that's not gonna happen to us again. Do you know what I mean? Like, like the one time, okay, that was wild, like once in a lifetime moment.

Like, I just never thought that the producers didn't have a plan in place. You know, I think that's what was so utterly like shocking and disappointing was that like well, we all knew this was a possibility and a likelihood that we would need to take a pause again. And it just I was like floored and kind of still am that they that that their plan was to close it, or they had no plan, or I don't know what the deal was. But um, I don't know. I'm not a producer, so I don't pretend to know all that that went into that decision.

[18:15] Elizabeth Stanley: But um I was doing another little like side hustle gig. I don't know if you saw the like South Park videos that um and I did and um I was doing that and my in-laws were here like watching Soul Vi because Charlie was out of town and uh I was like, Oh, I have to get back in time um for this company Zoom. And I thought for sure they were gonna be like, here's the plan, or here, you know, we're gonna be closed for a few more days, or we've hired more swings so that like we can keep going, you know. I just I think I was so distracted by how hard I was working to like make it all happen and be back at work with the baby that I it was like not on my radar that they were gonna say we're closing forever.

Um so it was real I was devastated. I was really like, oh my god, we worked so hard, you know, our, uh, as I I think probably people listening know, like there was a lot of um, there were a lot of really difficult conversations and a lot of internet conversations and um a lot of hurt and a lot of pain to work through for a lot of people in remounting our show. And so everyone who was a part of the reopening was really committed, like heart and soul, to being there. They believed in the show, they believed in the message, they um I mean we were like holding each other like family truly, and um, and so it was like um and then and I had also I had it in my contract, which I've never had before, but again I felt safe doing it because of um having Heidi like had it in my contract that I could be off a week around Christmas so I could like see my family for babies first Christmas, and then uh I don't know, we that happened on the 20th, and then Charlie tested positive for COVID, like on the 22nd or something.

So so we I like didn't see my family for Christmas and Charlie and I were like separate from each other as well. So it was like a really terrible time. As I knew it was for so many people, but yeah, it was um a time I don't need to go back to.

[20:28] Cara Cooper: No.

[20:29] Elizabeth Stanley: No, no. We're sorry for making you relive it.

[20:32] Cara Cooper: I know, I know sorry. I can kind of laugh about it now, you know.

[20:36] Elizabeth Stanley: Well, it's just maddening uh that there was no plan, clearly. You know what I mean? Like I know uh and that's the thing. It's like when we came back for our show, they you know, our producers were like, We're prepared to operate at a loss. But they didn't say like for how long. So that was our thing was like the question mark of like how long can they operate at a loss? But we all just kept sort of saying, like, they were they're prepared to operate at a loss, they're prepared to operate a loss. Yeah. And um knowing that this was likely to happen, right? Like as we return while still in a pandemic, that the likelihood of us having to take a pause, but oh my god, the timing, I just remember thinking like I just remember thinking this timing, it's the time of year where we were finally starting to ramp up.

Audiences were coming, it's the holidays, people are in the city, they're doing great. And I was like, if Omicron could have just held out till January, February. February, you know, like everybody would have been like fine, just just like two more weeks. And then they could have built up the reserves and they would have done things, and I was just like, this timing, I can't believe it. It's just such an awful, awful thing.

[21:48] Elizabeth Stanley: It was never got a taste of like, I mean, I say the word nor normality with quotations clearly, because nothing is was normal returning to work. But you said like when you jumped in, it was a con it was that constant kind of like people were testing positive, things were in were starting to tumble toward that the madness of the holidays. Whereas I feel like with you, Jess, and I know for like my husband, there were there were like several weeks of quote unquote normalcy. I mean, you were still testing, but you were going to work, you were wearing your mask, but like you got your groove, you know what I mean?

[22:21] Cara Cooper: It sounded like two and a half months with no cases.

[22:24] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. We had cases at the very beginning during rehearsal, and then we went two and a half months testing three times a week, PCR testing three times a week, masking all the things and no cases.

[22:35] Cara Cooper: Wow.

[22:36] Elizabeth Stanley: So we did feel relatively normal. I mean, it's normal as you can feel like wearing a mask, you know, backstage and then doing the things and all the stuff. And there, but there was still this the stress of it, like not just with your job, but just with your health too. You know, it's like this. I I said to someone, I said, we can't underestimate the undercurrent, the stress undercurrent that has just been flowing through us now for two years.

[23:01] Cara Cooper: In a very amplified way.

[23:02] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. You know.

[23:04] Cara Cooper: So true.

[23:05] Elizabeth Stanley: Oh I know. I'm sorry, Elizabeth. Um we're gonna take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[23:19] Cara Cooper: I'm so glad that while your show is no longer there, but that you did get to do you recently did anyone can whistle at Carnegie Hall. So you got to like I mean, first off, how do you get to Carnegie Hall?

[23:33] Elizabeth Stanley: You know, practice.

[23:35] Cara Cooper: Um but nobody you got to jump back on stage. You know, I in some ways I would hope I would think that was very healing or at least hop helpful in moving in this next phase.

[23:47] Elizabeth Stanley: It really was. It was like all of the above, you know, because it felt like oh God, you know, I think like the thing with Jagged closing, it was like I always felt like, oh man, this was such a an opportunity for me that I've dream dreamed of having. And then it felt like, oh my gosh, hardly anyone even got to like see the show. Um, and so um I was so grateful that Ted Sperling asked me to do that um production of anyone can whistle because it just felt like a chance to be back on stage again in a moment when it was only one night, but I still felt like a lot of people came and um and it was a really fun score to sing and a fun role to do. And um yeah, it in many ways though, it was a new challenge, right? Because going back to Jagged was like revisiting this thing I'd already learned and created. So I definitely felt like okay.

[24:37] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, I'm I'm like a very nerdy, um, I would say probably an overpracticer. Like, I'm someone who like would be, I'm not someone who crams for quizzes. Like, I'm like, I do the long game, I study a little bit every night, right? And so just that was like hard for me as a mom to be like, I don't know if I know this material because my, you know, my security blanket usually is to like do more homework. Um, and I just didn't have time to do more homework. Um, so that I definitely felt that crunch. Um, but then the triumph that I was like, well, I mostly did it, you know, like you said.

[25:06] Cara Cooper: I mostly did it.

[25:14] Elizabeth Stanley: I feel like that.

[25:15] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[25:15] Elizabeth Stanley: Undercurrent of motherhood.

[25:17] Cara Cooper: Right.

[25:18] Elizabeth Stanley: But you feel like you mostly did it. But on the internets, honey, the internet, you nailed it.

[25:20] Cara Cooper: You nailed it.

[25:24] Elizabeth Stanley: Exactly. I'm sure you did.

[25:26] Cara Cooper: Thank you, internets.

[25:27] Elizabeth Stanley: But yeah, like, you know, there I felt really like because you know, Ted and his husband have twin girls, and Sentino and his wife have a two-year-old, and Vanessa has four kids. And so it was a very supportive um room of people. In fact, like I posted about this a little bit, but uh Vanessa Williams bought me a new breast pump, and it was like the greatest gift of all time. She gave me the kind that like goes right into your bra, like the willow, is that what it's called? It's not, it's basically like that. I think this is LV is the brand, but um game changing, like life-changing, truly. Like she was telling me about it because her daughter just had a baby, and um, I was like, Yeah, I know, but I already have this, and you know, that's expensive.

Whatever she came in like the next day and like with like a reindeer bag and was like, Merry Christmas. She's like, Let me give you the celebrity version. Let me give you the let me level you up, Penny. I was, I mean, I was like, that is the nicest thing. And she was just, I don't know, and also just like was like bringing me dress options to wear. She was like, Oh, you've got to feel good. You like, you know, it was just like very, I felt taken care of in that moment of just like people getting getting it. And Sentino too, he was like, What are you doing? I can't believe you're like breast pumping and learning music and what I don't know. It's just nice. I mean, like every mom does it, right?

Every mom, like go that goes back to work, like has to figure it out, and not everyone gets props like that. So I felt like it was really nice to be in a room of people who are really like lifting me up.

[27:01] Cara Cooper: Yeah, they're seeing you and they're seeing the effort it takes to be a mother, a working mother. I mean, mothers in general, but especially in this business, too. It's like it really, especially you were saying that you don't cram and having to learn new material. I mean, mom brain is a real thing. And I can't imagine that was, you know, with Jagged, it was already in your body, right? Muscle memory is a wild thing. And to then have to go in and learn something entirely new with a seven-month-old at home, and doing all the things and still trying to get your footing and figure out how to juggle this new reality that you have because it's not gonna change.

[27:43] Elizabeth Stanley: It's not like I know. I mean, I hate to tell you, but like you're it's not like you think, okay, I just have to get through this, and then I'll be able to relax. And it's like, no, because I hate to tell you, but this is the new normal in your work.

[27:57] Cara Cooper: I know, I know. I see it happening, and I'm like, oh, help.

[28:04] Elizabeth Stanley: It does get somewhat easier, I will say, you know, as they get older in some ways, but you're, you know, yeah, the challenges just start, they shift, they change, you know, right?

[28:14] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[28:14] Elizabeth Stanley: And I think it's I mean, in an industry I think that doesn't acknowledge parents, the fact that your castmates and producers, they all, you know, they recognized what you were going through and you were able to be free about it. You know what I mean? Instead of feeling like you had to keep it under wraps to maintain your professional um image or or or professionalism even.

[28:39] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[28:39] Elizabeth Stanley: You know, you could really be free about it. And I I think that's hopefully what we're moving more towards industry. And in all industries, to be quite frank.

[28:48] Cara Cooper: You know.

[28:49] Elizabeth Stanley: It's true. I mean, it's hard. I because I I feel that like I've gotten a couple auditions for like self-tapes that I've just, you know, I just have not been able to I've just had to say, like, I'm sorry it didn't happen.

[28:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[28:59] Elizabeth Stanley: Because it was due the next day and I've literally had zero minutes of time to like memorize the thing and and put it on to use this blue screen back here, you know. Um that those moments are are hard, you know, just in terms of like, well, A, it's you never want to pass auditions up 'cause you're like, well, you know, you want to be grateful for everyone that you have, but it's also um yeah, that moment of like, I don't want people to start thinking like, oh, I can't do it, or I'm not capable, or I'm like overwhelmed with motherhood and I'm not gonna be able to keep up with my career anymore. It's like, you know, it's hard not to have that voice in the back of your head because we know that those judgments are out there for some people at least.

[29:42] Cara Cooper: Absolutely.

[29:43] Elizabeth Stanley: Absolutely. I will say that as I've noticed people on casting teams or in agent offices and things like that or in management, as they have had children, it's interesting how the shift happens with regard to understanding, with regard to getting grace to those new moms particularly, you know.

[30:04] Cara Cooper: But like once they're in the trenches and they realize like, oh, this is really hard. Like they're just it's not it's like when you when people think stay-at-home moms just lounge around watching soap operas, you know what I mean? Like then they stay home one day and they go, Oh my god, no wonder that the mess is the house is always a mess because you had no time to sit down because the baby did this and then this was happening, and then throwing the stuff on the floor. It's like it until it happens to you, right?

[30:29] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, until it happens to you, and then you recognize and it's like, can't we all just give each other some grace from the beginning? Like from the jump.

[30:37] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah.

[30:37] Elizabeth Stanley: We're all doing the best we can.

[30:40] Cara Cooper: That's right. Truly. I mean, and after you've had these experiences of jagged and anyone can whistle, and I don't know what you have in your future. How are you envisioning your career now that you are, you know, seven months into motherhood and understanding obviously what it what it's like to actually be in it and uh have your priorities shifted, you know, where I know for me I I don't think I had a long game at that point. I was very much like moment to moment, um, just trying to, you know, survive and exist. Uh, but what are you feeling about your career and how it is converging with motherhood?

[31:18] Elizabeth Stanley: Uh yeah, I mean, I am I'm asking myself a lot of questions right now of just like what what do I actually want? You know, if I could choose, what would I want? Um it's I don't know as the is like the real answer. I mean, for now, the short the short big picture, like for the summer, I'm kind of looking at um hoping I can do some concerts to kind of have some you know cash flow here and there, but not be uh gone for you know months at a time or for you know every night for a long spell.

[31:57] Cara Cooper: Um you know, like a limited run of something in the city or something like that feels like maybe more like that could be fine.

[32:05] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but like there've been a few summer stock things that I've looked at and then ultimately have been like I just don't think this summer is the right summer for that. Like, you know, and that's hard because I I'm someone who have always found like a big part of the payment of doing summer stock is like getting to live in a beautiful place, you know. So I'm always like down for it. I like that experience of um like cool, I get to be outside the city and um have a country home, you know, in this cast housing for two months. And like I like that. Not that's not for everyone, but um, that's harder to swing with like a family.

[32:40] Cara Cooper: Um so I'm just sort of like accepting that change.

[32:43] Elizabeth Stanley: Um I I feel a little uh I feel really disenchanted by doing a commercial Broadway production um after what I went through with Jagged. It was really like it was painful. Um and that's just like separate from motherhood. But so I'm not like yes, you know, I'm not just gonna say yes to like every audition for a Broadway show that would happen to like pop into my inbox.

[33:13] Cara Cooper: Um kind of like, we'll see.

[33:16] Elizabeth Stanley: Um yeah, but I I mean I I do I still love like I do love the the art form. And um, and so I I'm I'm hopeful that the right thing will come along that will be like, you know what, that's worth it. 'Cause I I'm in that tricky place right now that I'm discovering about myself of like the idea of spending a lot of time away from my child feels so heartbreaking, but the reality of it is not so bad, actually.

[33:50] Cara Cooper: You know, and I in some ways then I feel like I'm I'm more present with her after I've had a break or I I've had some other kind of stimulation that I come back and my I feel like I'm a better mom.

[34:02] Elizabeth Stanley: Um that that's a good thing.

[34:06] Cara Cooper: That is a common theme with lots of people. I mean, I know it for myself. I feel the same way, but for lots of people we've spoken to.

[34:12] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but it does feel like so daunting to make that leap to disconnect, you know.

[34:18] Cara Cooper: Yeah especially when you're you're in w you're with them all the time.

[34:22] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah. Uh it feels very foreign.

[34:24] Cara Cooper: But it is very good to fill your cup. But as you said, you know, it's like y every opportunity will present itself and the answer will be clear. I mean, it will you it will take some soul searching, I'm sure.

[34:37] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, I know that's been the case for me and I know it has for Jess, but like that you will know what you're being pulled toward and what you're not, you know.

[34:44] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[34:45] Elizabeth Stanley: Um, but it's a big shift from like you said, when you say yes to every audition and you get all the work done, even though you get the you know, the audition twelve hours before you need to memorize all the all the stuff, you know, like you make it work.

[34:57] Cara Cooper: There are things that shift a little bit.

[35:00] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[35:00] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[35:01] Elizabeth Stanley: That was the that's been one of the most difficult things for me is acknowledging and accepting that my priority is shifting.

[35:09] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[35:09] Elizabeth Stanley: You know, or that I don't always want to be doing the eight shows a week on a never on an unending like journey, you know, like six years at Jersey Boys or whatever. It's like for so long, you know, and there's that part of you that's like, take whatever job they offer because there are so many of you and you're dispensable and someone's just waiting there to take your place.

[35:28] Cara Cooper: And um, and so there's that running right in the back of your head, just as an artist, I feel.

[35:34] Elizabeth Stanley: And so, and then I feel like I'm cheating on my dream when I you know, like I you know, I need to talk about I need to do another episode talking about leaving my show, but it's like I it's it it was a decision that I made consciously, and while I'm happy with that decision, and I know that the payoff is gonna be great because I am gonna have time to spend with my daughter in you know, the spring and summer and do fun things and see my nephew be born. Do you know what I mean?

[36:01] Cara Cooper: Like there are life things happening, yeah, that will fill my cup in that way.

[36:05] Elizabeth Stanley: There's still that little voice over here that's like, but you're not gonna be doing a Broadway show. You're not gonna be going to the theater eight times a week. Who are you if you're not doing a show eight times?

[36:17] Cara Cooper: You know what I mean?

[36:18] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah, and and that's a big I think that's a it's a hard thing to admit to yourself. You're like, I know I shouldn't put all my self-worth, wrap it all up in this, but for so long it was, and now it has to shift.

[36:33] Cara Cooper: And not only is it shifting, which is a good thing, but also now you're older and you're different, and will there be work when you decide to come back?

[36:43] Elizabeth Stanley: You know what? It's all that.

[36:44] Cara Cooper: It's all that.

[36:46] Elizabeth Stanley: I don't have a Tony nomination like Miss Elizabeth Stanley.

[36:51] Cara Cooper: Oh, please.

[36:53] Elizabeth Stanley: No, that's what we didn't even shout that out. But that's yes, right? Yes.

[36:56] Cara Cooper: Yes.

[36:56] Elizabeth Stanley: And the photo of you, we did talk about that last time.

[36:58] Cara Cooper: That's like we've talked to you.

[37:03] Elizabeth Stanley: Pumping it.

[37:03] Cara Cooper: Pumping into the room.

[37:04] Elizabeth Stanley: Yes.

[37:04] Cara Cooper: Oh my God.

[37:06] Elizabeth Stanley: But it's just, it's a it's a real struggle. And I I'm so glad we have these conversations so that people can know that they are not alone and that no matter who you are. I mean, I remember taught Patty Lapone saying something about her son Josh and what it was like to be away from him. You know, and this was a time where hardly anybody was trying to balance the two, you know.

[37:25] Cara Cooper: And um, and that it was only because her husband was able to not work that she was able to continue to do it, you know.

[37:31] Elizabeth Stanley: And so when you have two working parents, as so many of us have to be, um this then this time, um the pull is it's really difficult to figure it out and how to make it happen.

[37:44] Cara Cooper: And and for some people, you know, on the contracts that we have on Broadway, all their paycheck goes to a sitter.

[37:51] Elizabeth Stanley: So then you really have to want to be there, you know.

[37:53] Cara Cooper: That's the thing.

[37:54] Elizabeth Stanley: Is it worth it? Is it because I'm not making any money. I'm not bettering my life or my standing or my savings. I'm literally just here because my heart wants to be here.

[38:05] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[38:06] Elizabeth Stanley: And take that time away from my child and oof.

[38:10] Cara Cooper: I think, but you know what? Those beautiful summer stock gigs, they'll be here next summer too.

[38:15] Elizabeth Stanley: And the summer after that.

[38:17] Cara Cooper: I mean you know you're right.

[38:20] Elizabeth Stanley: No, they will be.

[38:21] Cara Cooper: Yeah, they will be.

[38:23] Elizabeth Stanley: You know, my agent said to me a long time ago when I got pregnant and I was so nervous, and he was like, the business is always here. Life will not be. These moments will not be, but life, but the business will always be here.

[38:35] Cara Cooper: And I will speak from experience. I have had so many instances where I have made decisions for my life that weren't necessarily what would be the obvious decision for my career.

[38:48] Elizabeth Stanley: Um and my career has benefited from it in really like wondrous ways.

[38:53] Cara Cooper: Um anytime that I did something for the betterment of my life, the universe was like, well here you go. Here's some here's something for your career. You know what I mean?

[39:02] Elizabeth Stanley: So yeah.

[39:03] Cara Cooper: Um I have I do have faith in that.

[39:06] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[39:07] Cara Cooper: Awesome.

[39:07] Elizabeth Stanley: That's nice to hear.

[39:08] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[39:09] Elizabeth Stanley: I I do kind of feel that way. I've thought that a little bit sometimes of like some of the things I've been saying no to or you know but I'm like I've been given the advice to say no to that kind of thing, you know, over the years at different times.

[39:22] Elizabeth Stanley: And I've always been like, oh no, there's a reason that I want to say yes but I know for my career it might be better if I said no.

[39:27] Cara Cooper: You know it might push me, you know, might open a new path or a new door and um and so I guess yeah I feel hopeful that that maybe that'll be true. That I'll be surprised by you know new things that happen because of saying no to other things.

[39:41] Elizabeth Stanley: You make yourself open and available to who knows what whatever will come your way.

[39:47] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[39:47] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah.

[39:48] Cara Cooper: Well I can't wait to see what it is Elizabeth.

[39:50] Elizabeth Stanley: I know me too.

[39:51] Cara Cooper: Hey but likewise like for you with you know transitioning with with leaving your show. That's a huge choice and I look forward to seeing like what's you know what is next for you.

[40:02] Elizabeth Stanley: Thanks.

[40:02] Cara Cooper: It's gonna be so good for you Jeff.

[40:04] Elizabeth Stanley: Yeah thanks. I think you know yeah the pandemic made a lot of things clear right for better or for worse.

[40:13] Cara Cooper: So anyways.

[40:14] Elizabeth Stanley: Well, thank you for so much.

[40:17] Cara Cooper: Thanks for being here. It's really nice to talk to other moms.

[40:20] Elizabeth Stanley: It's really so thanks for having me.

[40:22] Cara Cooper: We finally we have to actually make it happen now. We've been we even set on another one, but we do have to meet up.

[40:28] Elizabeth Stanley: We don't live that far away.

[40:29] Cara Cooper: So we need to do When it's no longer 20 degrees.

[40:32] Elizabeth Stanley: I know.

[40:34] Cara Cooper: Exactly.

[40:35] Elizabeth Stanley: Oh my gosh, for sure.

[40:36] Cara Cooper: Well, have a great day.

[40:38] Elizabeth Stanley: Thanks.

[40:38] Cara Cooper: You do talk soon.

[40:40] Elizabeth Stanley: Okay.

[40:40] Cara Cooper: Bye.

[40:46] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Justin Squiggs Robertson for our fabulous new graphic. Kristen Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Wardweber for our awesome theme song, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.