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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA, Musical Theatre College Auditions, and today we have a super cool show lined up for you. I have known Anne L. Nathan for years as she's been an MTCA song coach from nearly the very beginning of MTCA. She's simply one of my favorite people in the world and I think a really valuable voice in both the Broadway community and the college prep world. This is one of our artist exploration series where we look at the college process and see what carried forward into the career of some successful artists today.

Some things Anne and I talked about. We talked about the confidence gleaned from training. We tried to make Anne cry, we'll see if we were successful. The discipline and structure of the grind. We talked about compartmentalizing and how to have a good day. And we talked about building community. Up next, we have Catherine Moore from Carnegie Mellon University. Catherine was one of my favorite professors at Carnegie Mellon. She is an amazing spirit and educator and I think you will really love our chat. But for now, Broadway's Anne L. Nathan.

[1:31] Charlie Murphy: Wow, okay. Today I am here with the Anne L. Nathan of Broadway and MTCA fame. Anne has a BFA from the Boston Conservatory where she is the recipient of the 2013 Distinguished Alumni Award. She's been in so many Broadway shows, including the original Broadway cast of Sing Street, slated to come to Broadway soon. Once, It Should Have Been You, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Ragtime, which was her Broadway debut. She's also been in the revivals of Sunday in the Park with George and Assassins, as well as numerous off-Broadway shows, national tours, some TV shows like Dirt, Law and Order, What I Like About You, Veronica Mars, and the web series, Submissions Only, as well as the films Baby Mama and King of California.

Anne is also our very first active MTCA coach on the pod. I know I hear you out there, guys. We're going to do more MTCA coaches, I promise. I know you want your coach, but we've got Anne first. She's one of our most experienced song coaches and Megan's former MTCA song coach, Megan, our producer. Anne, how are you doing?

[2:40] Anne L. Nathan: I'm good. I can't believe that Megan is here. She was such a good student, you know.

[2:45] Charlie Murphy: And still is.

[2:46] Anne L. Nathan: She was. She was really good.

[2:48] Charlie Murphy: Oh, shucks.

[2:49] Anne L. Nathan: Okay. Anne, I'm going to take you back to your pre-college days, if you can remember this. This is in good olden times. If you can remember when you started thinking about all of this, if you had been so precocious at 16, 17 years old to have a little bit of a mission statement of what you thought you were looking for as you first looked at colleges, what do you think that was? What do you think you were thinking about?

[3:14] Anne L. Nathan: Oh, well, first of all, I will say that I am the person who, from the time I was four, wanted to do it. There was not even a question. I was singing and dancing in my living room, did all the school plays. My parents used to drive me in, or I took a bus to go to the neighborhood playhouse for classes during high school on the weekends. So I was really in it. And so there was not even a question that that's what I was going to do. My mission statement was I wanted to be with like-minded people. I wanted to be with people who were as passionate as I was and really wanted to do this. I couldn't wait to be, well, at the time, a conservatory because I wanted to do this morning, noon, and night. So I also was kind of an intense kid.

So acting was always something that I wanted to do first. I mean, I loved the singing and I loved the dancing, of course, but I really was smoldering. I just loved Sondheim and I auditioned for high school shows with There Won't Be Trumpets, which is a really bizarre choice for a child to sing. So I was that kid. So I just wanted to go to a program that was going to let me be the weirdo I was all the time with like-minded weirdos.

[4:23] Charlie Murphy: And to you, the like-minded meant super intense, really into theater, really into the craft of acting, that kind of like-minded weirdo?

[4:30] Anne L. Nathan: I was like sitting in my bedroom trying to get a tear down during the monologue. That was me, for sure.

[4:36] Charlie Murphy: I love that. I mean, I'm thinking of me and Alejandro, my best friend in pre-college in our dorm room, just like coaching our monologues again and again over each other. Can we get it more intense? Can we get more vulnerable? Can we go, you know, that kind of...

[4:48] Anne L. Nathan: Yeah, for me, it was always, can I cry? Wouldn't it be great if I could cry?

[4:55] Charlie Murphy: And the great thing is by the end of this pod, and you will have cried.

[4:58] Anne L. Nathan: Well, I think I already did cry.

[5:01] Charlie Murphy: Perfect. Do you remember, you said what you were auditioning for high school shows. Do you remember what material you performed for high school and for college auditions?

[5:08] Anne L. Nathan: Yes, I did. Get ready.

[5:10] Charlie Murphy: Give it to us.

[5:12] Anne L. Nathan: The Ladies Who Lunch from Company, because, you know, everyone should sing a song written for a 50-year-old alcoholic woman. It's really age-appropriate. That was my big song. And my monologue was from the play Nuts. Do you know that play?

[5:28] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely.

[5:29] Anne L. Nathan: I just want to tell you, because I actually thought about this. I played, it's when a strong-willed, high-class call girl, that would be me at 17, is indicted for manslaughter, goes on trial. So, yeah, that's what I picked because I wasn't coached.

[5:47] Charlie Murphy: You're giving us range. You're giving us a preview of what would be perfect for you now. I mean, you could be doing Ladies Who Lunch right now and definitely call girl stuff is always in the range.

[5:55] Anne L. Nathan: I did it at 17.

[5:56] Charlie Murphy: I love it. I love it. Do you remember your relationship with your parents at the time? Were they into the idea of you going into the arts? Were they, you know, supportive financially, emotionally?

[6:06] Anne L. Nathan: They were very supportive. I think that my dad's an attorney, and I'm sure that there were times when he thought, I'm sure both of them thought, oh, it's such a hard business. I can't believe she's going to do this. However, the only place I was happy and joyful was doing this. So I think that that outweighed everything else. They were very supportive. They were financially supportive, which to this day, about twice a year, I thank my dad because he did pay for my college. Just the other day, I said, how did you do that? And he said, well, we took out loans. That's something that we had decided. My dad grew up with not a lot of money, and they decided that they were going to pay for college no matter what it took.

So I was very lucky, very supported. But like I said, it's because it's the only place that I was so happy and I thought, well, she's talented and she's passionate. I was very passionate about it. There was not a lazy bone in my body. I did this morning and at night, I was doing this. So I was very lucky. They were very supportive. They would fly up to Boston to see me in my black box production of A Taste of Honey. I mean, all that stuff. I'm a very, very lucky person. So even though they had fear, they didn't outwardly show it.

[7:16] Charlie Murphy: That's great. And it seems like their bet was right. You were talented. Look at all that you've done.

[7:20] Anne L. Nathan: Sure. But I've definitely had moments in my life where things were really bad. And I came to them and said, I've got to get out. And they were like, great. How can we help you? They were not like, don't get out. I think they thought that finally, but they needed to come from me. So definitely, I've lived long enough to have had several moments where I was going to quit. And they were understood. It's very hard. It's hard business.

[7:41] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely. I love that. Let's jump you forward a little bit to the college year. So now you're at the Boston Conservatory. Give me like, under three words of what that experience was like for you. So if you sum it up in one to three words.

[7:54] Anne L. Nathan: Okay. Bold. Fun. Intense.

[8:07] Charlie Murphy: Bold, fun, intense, the Boston Conservatory motto. I like it. Let's do we're going to do my favorite part of the show, we're going to do a college flashback round. So this is a game show element of the podcast. You may not have expected there's going to be a game show, but there is. We're going to put 60 seconds on the clock. And I'm going to have you answer as many questions about your college experience as you can within 60 seconds. If I'm really stumped, do I say skip?

[8:28] Anne L. Nathan: Skip.

[8:29] Charlie Murphy: No one has tried to skip yet. Skip, I think will lose you five points, let's say. The most we've gotten is 12 so far. 12 is the mark to beat and 12 is very hard. So I'm happy with anything double digits is good, I think. Okay, are you ready? Favorite show you did in school?

[8:45] Anne L. Nathan: The club.

[8:46] Charlie Murphy: Something on your dorm room wall that you remember?

[8:50] Anne L. Nathan: Peter Frampton poster.

[8:55] Charlie Murphy: Teacher you learned the most from?

[8:55] Anne L. Nathan: Frans Zarnas.

[8:56] Charlie Murphy: Did you attend a frat or sorority party?

[8:59] Anne L. Nathan: Yes.

[9:00] Charlie Murphy: Did you ever cheat on a test?

[9:00] Anne L. Nathan: No.

[9:01] Charlie Murphy: Most embarrassing costume worn?

[9:06] Anne L. Nathan: The club.

[9:07] Charlie Murphy: The craziest ritual that you did in school?

[9:10] Anne L. Nathan: TC's bar and grill.

[9:11] Charlie Murphy: Ever possess a fake ID?

[9:14] Anne L. Nathan: Yes.

[9:15] Charlie Murphy: Weirdest acting exercise?

[9:17] Anne L. Nathan: Grotowski exercises.

[9:18] Charlie Murphy: The school alumni you wanted to be when you grew up?

[9:22] Anne L. Nathan: Damn it. I'm going to say Gina Trano, who is in my class, but I'm going to say that.

[9:29] Charlie Murphy: Worst fashion choice?

[9:29] Anne L. Nathan: Madonna skirt.

[9:30] Charlie Murphy: Oh, Madonna skirt did not count, but we did get to enjoy it. We did get to enjoy the answer itself. Megan, what do we what number do we think she got?

[9:35] Anne L. Nathan: She was so close. She got 11.

[9:36] Charlie Murphy: 11, a valiant 11. Okay, we'll have our scorekeepers check that just to see. There'll be a recount if needed. But that's great. Let's do a little slower look back at some college stuff. Okay, what is the biggest thing you think you take away from those years? So what are you so grateful having gone to college for four years to have under your belt as a professional?

[9:53] Anne L. Nathan: Being fearless. That's the biggest thing for sure. Because it was a great program, I have to say that we really got into everything. And I think that when I left, I was so, you know, just doing like every accent and every different style of acting and Shakespeare. And I just felt like I was, I touched on everything and felt very confident. Even though when I left school, I will say that I absolutely, a year or two later, got back into acting class, because that was the one thing that I felt like I wanted to keep. We could always use more help with, but I really wanted to strengthen that because no matter how much you try, there's always room, isn't there, especially if you're in a conservatory, where you're also spending your time dancing and singing.

[10:39] Charlie Murphy: It's so true. And also the singing, the dancing, excuse me, we danced a lot every day. So I became quite a good mover slash dancer in some areas. When you do that every single day, it's amazing. I wish I could do that now every day. Is there anything you feel like you wish you'd done differently in school? Is there something that you go, I wish I'd focused a little more here? I wish I'd paid attention here, done this differently?

[11:01] Anne L. Nathan: Not so much, because I felt like I really was that student who got everything out of the college experience. I loved it. I would say if there's one thing, I took a Shakespeare class with this teacher, Steve McConnell. He was very tough, and very great and excellent at what he did. And he came in when I was a sophomore, and I never had him for acting. And I always wanted to have him. I was always sad that I didn't have him for acting, because he was a great teacher. Because just having him for that little bit of Shakespeare, I was always like, oh, I wish I could have had him for more things. But that I couldn't do anything about that. He came in after, you know, midway through my time there.

[11:34] Charlie Murphy: That feels like such a description of acting teachers to me. Like, there, we always feel like there's that guru who's got the magic sauce. If I could just get into his class, then I'd learn then I yeah, then I was always jealous, because I always felt like the kids who had him were so cool. Because he was he's British. And, you know, he was that guy that was always like, I don't want to see the emotion. Like, I learned a lot from him, given that I only had him one, like one semester for one for one class. But I was always like, oh, that guy. If I studied with him, I'd be more of a cool actors.

[12:13] Anne L. Nathan: Totally know what you mean. I've had that feeling about many different classes going guys should be in that class. That's so funny. Um, what about how about this? Now, especially with your experience, as I'm a coach, and having, you know, done not only acted for so many years, but also taught, if you were to go back to your school, especially as it was then and teach a class, what class would that be? What do you feel like was missing in your program?

[12:35] Anne L. Nathan: Business, I'm going to go with just knowing more about the world of especially, let's just say, call it theater for now. The world of theater, like know what if you want to be part of Union, know what your union does know that it's your union, know what the rules are, know how you can look things up, know what it means what weekly grosses are. Just I feel like there are a lot of people are really ill informed about all the business end of our business. And I think it would help people would also help people stress out a little less if they kind of have the information. I think I've always been extremely intrigued about that. I do a Broadway show, I look at those numbers every week, I want to see the facts.

So I know how healthy the show is, if the show is going to close, it's really interesting to me. And additionally, I think they could go farther into how it all works in terms of casting and how does casting bring you in. So many times students will email me once college is over and they'll say, I have to get an agent. And the conversation I always have is maybe just get to know the casting directors, but there seems to be a disconnect with some of them that that might be a better or a stronger path. Because those little things like you get an agent, but how are they going to get you in the room still because there are still 80 people that they love that.

[16:45] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[17:15] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[17:45] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[18:15] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[18:45] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[19:15] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[19:45] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[20:15] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[20:27] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[20:37] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[20:47] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[20:57] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:07] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:17] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:25] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:35] Anne L. Nathan: I am the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:47] Anne L. Nathan: I’m co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[21:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[22:29] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[22:39] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[22:49] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[22:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:09] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:19] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:29] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:39] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:49] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[23:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:09] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:19] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:29] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:39] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:49] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[24:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:09] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:19] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:29] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:39] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:49] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[25:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:09] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:19] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:29] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:39] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:49] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[26:59] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[27:09] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[27:19] Anne L. Nathan: I’m also the co-founder and co-producer of Mapping the College Audition.

[29:30] Anne L. Nathan: What does the L stand for?

[29:53] Charlie Murphy: And that's okay going public. You're willing to admit to that here today?

[29:56] Anne L. Nathan: The only reason why I, uh, well, I think I was going to be Anne Nathan, but someone, there was already an Anne Nathan in equity, but I don't have a problem with Leslie and Leslie Nathan.

[30:06] Charlie Murphy: Love it. Love it as a name. Well, breaking news on this pod, or maybe not breaking news. Okay. Just a couple more questions in wrap up, uh, contemplation here. Uh, we talked a little bit about it, but how do you sort of feel as we, we all are feeling the real shift of the industry in this year of 2021? Um, and how do you sort of feel the industry shifting? Where do you think it's going? Um, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, what you think 10 years from now, what kind of industry are we looking at?

[30:31] Anne L. Nathan: Wow. Um, well, I will say that I, I feel like I'm, I'm sure I'm not alone in this. It's the first time I've ever felt like we'll see what happens. It seems like so much is up in the air. Uh, I'm thrilled to see that Broadway shows have their dates, but again, let's see what happens. We're all hoping for the best. I hope we have tourists in the city and I hope that people keep getting vaccinated and all these things, but there's a lot to think about. Um, you know, I think the business is, is, I'm going to just go with theater right now. There's a really big difference between Broadway and off Broadway and regional. There's just a lot of different things. So I have been very fortunate that I've worked a lot in the Broadway, um, world.

And to be honest, I've been really happy there. I've been maybe a little blind to things, or maybe it's a little bit an age thing because I was always taught, shut your mouth, pull up your bootstraps and just don't complain. That's just how we were taught to be. So when someone is abusive in a room, you just don't, you hold back the tears and then you go home and you call your friend. And, um, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just what it was or what it is. So I think there's going to have to be a compromise because there are some people who want to burn it, burn it down. And then there are some people who want it to be exactly what it was. And I think there has to be a middle ground of how can we be kinder to each other?

How can we be, have, be more inclusive in all ways? How can we, um, how can we have a business that also, uh, allows people who don't have a lot of money to see shows, but, but this is also dependent on government subsidies and it's dependent on, uh, theater owners, not charging an exorbitant amount of rent on Broadway. There are so many things that have to have to be right. So I'd like to see things get better, but I also don't want to see it just cut off because frankly, selfishly, I need a job selfishly. I need to work. I need to pay my rent. I need to get health insurance. These are big, big issues. Our health insurance is tied to work, which I wish it wasn't, but it is right now. So I'd like to see, I'm going to say both sides of this issue because there are people on both sides that feel really strongly on each side, find a way to get more in the middle because I think it's the only way forward, frankly.

[32:59] Charlie Murphy: It's very, very well said. I mean, and it feels like even when you say both sides, it's like, there's actually like 300 sides.

[33:02] Anne L. Nathan: Yeah, there are 300. There's like, but there are people who are like, I don't want any change. I like the way it was. And then there are people who are really angry and want to see, you know, the unions go away and it burned down. And I definitely don't want to see that happen, but I also am very happy to embrace change that is for the better.

[33:19] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And it is very difficult to your point of what's going to happen. It's very difficult to picture an envelope that satisfies all of those different sides and all those different people, right? You go, I don't quite see what would work right now. That's going to meet this and this and what the producers need and what the directors want and what the actors want, what the backstage people want. You know, it's just, it seems.

[33:38] Anne L. Nathan: It's a little bit like if you look at a presidential election and people who were really responsive to Bernie and then begrudgingly voting for Biden, but now kind of going, well, he's pretty good. It's not exactly what I wanted, but there's a lot of good too.

[33:53] Charlie Murphy: Well, let's, let's hope we can make that kind of compromise or that kind of clean solution. Let's, you know.

[33:58] Anne L. Nathan: That'd be great.

[34:01] Charlie Murphy: Now, if you could go back and talk to, let's say a 16, 17 year old who's starting this process, is there like a piece of advice that you would want to give to them?

[34:10] Anne L. Nathan: Yes. I think it would be to have great community around you more than anything, because when I, when I look back and I think of how hard this industry is and how many times you get rejected, but if you get rejected and then you get to call your friends and you get to go have a meal or have a drink or watch TV together and they remind you that you're fantastic and that you're going to get there and hold on, or they just let you cry. And then you move on to, I had an acting class where whenever any of us got an audition, we rallied. We all went to the person's house and helped them get the job. And then also it, it helps you branch out and you meet more and more people. And you know, that's how you get a job.

I cannot tell you how many times someone has called me and said, we need someone for blah, blah, blah. And I'll go, oh my gosh, I have this person that I worked with, this young person, and they're so fantastic. And they're so warm in the room and they've got a great voice. You just have to get to know a lot of people. So that's why I say, I think community is really important for your mental health, but also because you need to get inside these places. And the only way to do it is to get to know more and more people and not necessarily by just mailing your picture and resume. So that's a big thing. I mean, there are so many things, but that's something that I've been thinking about a lot, the idea of community.

[35:22] Charlie Murphy: I love it. It's great advice. And thank you so much for coming on the pod today. Is there anything you need to plug? Anything we need to tell our listeners about of where to hear you find you?

[35:35] Anne L. Nathan: Yes, I will plug the Sing Street cast recording. It's so good, everyone. I'm so proud of it. And I think that it got a little lost in the shuffle when it came out, but I highly recommend it. It's very hip and very good.

[35:46] Charlie Murphy: Love it. And we can follow you, I know, at @AnneLNathan, don't try to type in @AnneLeslieNathan, it won't get you anywhere, but @AnneL, @AnneLNathan on Instagram.

[35:57] Anne L. Nathan: Yes, yes. And we'll put the Sing Street info in the episode notes as well. If anyone wants to find that and listen to the excellent Sing Street recording. Thank you. And thank you so much. It's such a pleasure having you on today.

[36:14] Anne L. Nathan: So honored. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Megan.

[36:21] Charlie Murphy: Well, I hope you enjoyed talking to Anne as much as Megan and I did. Megan was glowing the entire time listening to her former song coach talk. I just want to do a little takeaway, a little deeper dive on something that Anne and I talked about in terms of like the mystery of the business, maybe the amount of knowledge that people graduate from school in terms of knowing the business that's come up a couple of times already. And I know it'll come up more at something you'll hear a lot of actors say, man, I wish my program had prepared me better for this.

[36:45] Anne L. Nathan: Yes.

[36:46] Charlie Murphy: And I think it is, of course, really smart advice. And it's really true that a lot of 22 year olds come and go, oh my gosh, I learned how to act and sing and dance, but man, I need some help with the getting an agent and casting directors and how to do a self tape and what's an equity and a non-equity call, right? And some of that stuff, schools certainly are getting better at teaching you. I do think in fairness to some of these programs, this is an enormous field when you talk about the entertainment industry, which is what you're graduating into and all the diverse things that different actors will do from different programs. And there are so many kind of different versions of the business.

Part of our goal on this podcast actually is going to be to try to highlight some different paths to success. But I think it's important to realize that each path is very different in how it happens. And so really in looking at someone else's path, you're not necessarily trying to replicate it, but trying to understand, okay, here are the different choices maybe at different times as I kind of forge my own path. Some people will get agents right out of college, maybe right out of a showcase, and that is their agent for years. That does happen to some people. Some might get an agent and then they switch after a year, they may get dropped or they may decide this is not who I want. I actually want to go over here.

Many will start off unrepresented and then they may find a rep through that community Anne was talking about. So maybe they have a friend or they do a show with someone and they go, you're great. You should meet my agent. And then maybe that works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe that has to happen three times before you end up with an agent who actually is going to work with you. There isn't a right way to do it. And I think because of the kind of ever shifting landscape of exactly how agents and managers and casting directors might interact at any given time in any given segment of the business, it can be pretty difficult to learn it all. Especially like Anne was talking about some of the bonus points stuff of the business of like, do you understand the gross receipts of your Broadway show and what the role of a producer is in negotiation?

Some of that is stuff that agents and managers certainly can do for you. But as an actor, you want to be equipped with that information. It's a lot. I also think it's worth noting there really are those multiple businesses within the business. So as Anne also alluded to that, some casting directors might do a lot of Broadway. Others might do more TV and film. Maybe some are really off Broadway. Some do lots of musical theater. Some do more straight plays. Some have lots of overlap. Some don't have a lot of overlap with that. And then you add in stuff like commercials and voiceovers, industrials, video games, virtual reality. It's all common, all that crazy stuff where some people may be really specialized within that where you go, I just meet this person for commercial comedic auditions.

And that's where I go to this, because they do tons of that, right? Can get really specific in terms of what someone specialize in. So I guess my advice to you in this little two minute segment of our takeaways is to maybe give yourself a bit of a grace period. If you're a young actor and it feels overwhelming, you're not wrong. It is overwhelming. Especially if you're still in school. But even if you're a couple of years out of school to go, I feel like I still don't get it all. Give yourself a little grace. Take a little breath. We say eat that elephant one chunk at a time, right? It's a lot to take in and learn what you can learn over time. Some of it, you're going to learn only from experiencing yourself.

And sometimes it's because your unique path and the way that you're forging opportunities is only being presented to you in the order that it is for you. And for other people to go, that's not how it worked for me. I had this happen and then this happened. And then that brought me to this, right? There's so many different ways to get to the place that you want to get to. And of course, we're not all trying to go to the same place. So a little bit of grace can't hurt us as we listen to this podcast on a Wednesday, I'm sure.

[40:24] Charlie Murphy: If you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear more of me rambling, please hit that subscribe button, follow us, rate us, review us. We think five stars if you think we're champions, or if you think we suck, maybe five stars because you personally believe in participation trophies would be great. You can also reach out to us with questions for our mailbag at mappingthecollegeaudition.com. If you're interested in working with MTCA for help with your individual preparation for your college audition journey, please check us out at mtcollegeauditions.com. To my young artists out there mapping their journey, do not fear your internal Leslie. I'll see you next week.