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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, my dear listeners. This is your favorite podcast host, Charlie, from June of 2025.

[0:07] Charlie Murphy: If you're hearing one of these episode toppers, it means this episode is no longer totally current in some way. Now, this may be obvious to you if you've, like, scrolled deep into our episode archive of all these past states, but just in case it was not, please receive this content warning that what you're about to listen to is not completely current. In an effort to avoid confusion over the general state of the landscape, but still try to maintain some of the transparency of the project that this podcast has been, as well as I think some of that valuable process-based information that's present in all of our episodes, I have decided to leave, like, all of our older episodes up, even if the landscape has shifted significantly since the recording occurred.

[0:46] Charlie Murphy: So when we become aware of a big change, I'm just adding a topper to the episode like this to make clear what is current as of now in the middle of 2025. Of course, now as soon as I release these episode toppers into the ether, my information becomes immediately not current, so we appreciate your grace there, and we also can't commit to catching every single small shift in the landscape that may happen when you're talking about over 200 episodes so far, but we're gonna do our best, and we'll certainly be able to catch all the major shifts in hopefully a reasonable amount of time, at least that will be our goal.

[1:13] Charlie Murphy: And I would just say in general, you know, I'm saying this at the top of all of the episodes to make it clear that this is not about a specific person or program, nor the specific episode that you're about to listen to, but just in general, one faculty member does not make an entire program in our opinion, right? Obviously, there are some program heads and really valued professors that have had those outsized impacts on their programs and have built reputations with their strong hands, but nobody does that alone, and the legacy of that work, that doesn't disappear with the person's leaving, right?

[1:42] Charlie Murphy: So while someone leaving a program that might really shift your opinion on the school, and it's fair to allow it to, it shouldn't completely invalidate that school in your mind, certainly not automatically, right? Both factors, the specific faculty and the institution itself around them should weigh heavily in your mind, and each situation, it's going to be unique about how much influence you think a shift might have, right? There are no easy answers, but each situation should be weighed individually based on those variety of factors.

[2:10] Charlie Murphy: So it was my goal with this podcast to give you that intimate look into a given program so that you could pick up the vibes of specific professors hopefully better than you're able to read data off a website, but hopefully to some extent, you're able to extrapolate that vibe as best as you can to the program at large, right? Of course, not every professor is going to be fully representative of every other professor at the program, how could they be? But at least gives you a nice data point and a window in, a vibe data point, and I hope you feel that it's relevant to the program at large beyond just that specific person.

[2:39] Charlie Murphy: Okay, but let's get to your specific episode. Okay, so with this specific episode with Tim Espinosa, this now represents an Act Two in what will almost certainly be an Act Three, three-act play at some point in the near future. The wonderful Michelle Chassé did our Act One, who we've known and worked with for many years, and she still teaches at BoCo, and introduced us to Tim right at the beginning of his tenure because she was really excited about the new vision he was bringing to BoCo.

[3:04] Charlie Murphy: It ended up being a pretty short-lived tenure, I don't know the details of exactly why. I've since met the new dean, Krisha, whom they were searching for during this episode filming, and she seems really lovely, and seems like she's holding a lot of the vision of what Tim speaks about here as well. So basically, just to say, I think most of this in terms of what is new in the shift that BoCo is making is still very relevant to you. These new initiatives Tim has spoken up, to my understanding, as of last year, have continued to develop, just now under different leadership.

[3:36] Charlie Murphy: And of course, we'll try to have someone else on in the near future to talk a little bit more about where they are. But for now, enjoy this episode.

[3:44] ♪ Musical number: "Mapping the College Audition Theme Song" — performed by Unknown artist ♪

[3:54] Charlie Murphy: Hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theater College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today, we have got Tim Espinosa from Boston Conservatory on the podcast.

[4:16] Charlie Murphy: We talk about it a bit in the episode, but this is really a continuation of a nice string of these 2.0 episodes, or what I've been affectionately calling our Act 2s. We just had Josh Young from Missouri State on after having Robert Westenberg previously on the podcast. I just recorded that we've not yet released Matt Edwards from Shenandoah after having had Kevin Covernon in one of our very first episodes.

[4:38] Charlie Murphy: And I think this is a particularly cool Act 2, since we had that dance-focused conversation with Michelle Chassé earlier on BoCo, so please, you can listen to that to get a great sense of BoCo's dance, either before or after this episode. And then there will be some overlap questions and things that were asked and answers. Just in general, I'm doing that if I thought it'd be helpful to hear both perspectives, or in this case, hearing Tim's updated perspective, you know, sometimes if it's been a couple years.

[5:00] Charlie Murphy: But in general, with these Act 2s, I'm trying to keep the conversations unique enough that I think there'll still be value in listening to both episodes if you're interested in the school. So if you like BoCo, if you like any of these schools where we've done an Act 2, or maybe some schools soon we're going to do an Act 3, you can check them all out. If you're just, you know, testing and feeling the schools out, maybe just listen to one, and then if you like it, you listen to the second one. It's up to you. You don't have to listen in any order, too.

[5:22] Charlie Murphy: We're calling it Act 2, but you could do Act 2, and then Act 1, Act 3, however you want to do it. I also really—I talk about it in the episode, but I really think Tim represents a very interesting wave of program heads that, you know, that does seem to kind of represent a new generation of educational leaders, along with many of the voices you've already heard on this podcast.

[5:40] Charlie Murphy: You know, Leo and I, we sat down with Tim and Michelle in Chicago to talk a little bit about Tim's vision. You know, I was really struck by how much he felt like our contemporary age-wise. Now, some of that feeling revolutionary to me is also me having to embrace my own aging, because, of course, I still think of myself as very young. I'm still in my athletic prime, come on, but I have been doing this for 20 years now, so I'm no longer the whippersnapper who was right out of school, but I do think we're really seeing, and you know, for those who've been around for a little while, you can really see a changing of the guard in the post-COVID world, which you're seeing us kind of representing, us scrambling to have back on so many people because of all the moving faculty pieces.

[6:21] Charlie Murphy: But really, for 20 years leading up till now, until COVID, there was not a lot of big generational shifts in academic leaderships at the top. A lot of these, you know, most competitive programs, there was like a long-standing era of a lot of the same people, whether it was the exact same people or it shifted back and forth between two people, but generationally, it was all the same people, you know, many of whom it was the exact same person for basically the entire time that I've been in the field.

[6:49] Charlie Murphy: You know, it's really interesting now to see almost all of the most competitive programs have gone through a shift and going through this kind of change together. So, you know, of course, no institution we've talked about this before is one person, but you can really see that the visions of schools can shift with leadership. You're going to hear a bit of that with Tim, and I think it's interesting to see a lot of younger people in those positions as the guard changes.

[7:05] Charlie Murphy: And of course, I say all this in the ironic context of a political election season featuring two 80-year-old white guys, but we won't talk about that today. No, it's spring and we're thinking happy thoughts. I hope you are all enjoying the weather. I hope those seniors out there who are still in the throes of their decision-making season are finding ease and good humor as you move through this craziness. Keep doing your work. You're going to find that right fit for you.

[7:31] Charlie Murphy: And I hope for those of you who are waiting on wait lists that you have some wonderful distractions to get you through the torture of it all. Our juniors are still in the midst of spring college faculty master classes, including BoCo's own Michelle Strasse, who is teaching a class on May 14th for us. If you missed out on the first round of any of those classes, please do reach out to our office and let us know of your interest. We do have the possibility of adding a couple additional classes into May, pending your interests.

[8:02] Charlie Murphy: I hope you're all doing well in the world. If you can believe it, I'm going to give you a week off of my terrible review reading on the podcast. You're welcome. But I do hope you enjoy this interview with Tim Espinoza.

[8:15] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to welcome Tim Espinoza of Boston Conservatory, Berkeley. Tim has a BFA musical theater from CSU Fullerton and an MFA in acting from Brandeis University. He's acted all over the place at Goodspeed, Paper Mill, ART, all kinds of places. He founded MTEA's Committee on Representation, Equity, and Inclusion. He's also an electric violinist. We'll chat about that a little bit. Previously, he was a professor at Oklahoma's School of Musical Theater alongside friend of the pod Ashton, and he founded and led the musical theater program at Fullerton College.

[8:54] Charlie Murphy: Tim, of course, now works at BoCo, which is still located in Boston, Massachusetts. They take classes of about 60 to 80 students, though we're going to chat about the specifics of that and how it might change. They offer degrees, a BFA musical theater, BFA contemporary theater, BFA dance, etc. Tim, how are you doing? Welcome on the pod.

[9:16] Tim Espinosa: Thank you, Charlie. It's an honor to be here, and I'm thrilled to step into this new season of my life as chair of theater at the Boston Conservatory, Berkeley. And I'm more even excited to chat with you today.

[9:26] Charlie Murphy: I'm and look at you. What a professional interviewee. Already, you're cleaning up mistakes I make. Not only did I bungle BoCo versus Berkeley versus whatever, but I forgot to give you your title, of course, which is the chair of theater. There's so many acronyms that the Boston Conservatory has. You know, we go by many, many people call it BoCo, the historical name of the Boston Conservatory, BoCo. Many people use BCB, Boston Conservatory, Berkeley. So all of them are welcome. It's like BC, BCE, you know, before Christ or whatever.

[9:55] Tim Espinosa: Totally. I love it. All right. Well, let's dive in, you know, and I'll give it a little bit of an intro in this to our listeners who have heard this before our chat that's happening right now. And that's in the BC before interview, BI, I guess. But of course, many of our listeners will have heard the amazing Michelle Chassé, who also came on to talk about the program. Obviously, she held a different position than what you're holding as she was a longtime dance faculty member, still is.

[10:25] Charlie Murphy: And we got really deep into dance in that episode. So I encourage all of our listeners, please do listen to that. I think you'll get a lot of value from the dance of it all. But she also did talk about the broader perspective about what the program has been. And I think with you newly in this position, I know we're going to want to talk a lot about what BoCo has been, but also what it can be.

[10:41] Charlie Murphy: So for those who haven't listened yet, please do. There'll be some repeat information here, but we're going to try to progress the conversation forward as well. So let's start off by doing that. And just give me, if you give me a little bit of a taste of your impression of what a BoCo BCB student is, like what is the snapshot of like what it has been, what it is now, and a little bit maybe of what your vision is of like what that might mean under your stewardship?

[11:04] Tim Espinosa: Absolutely, yeah. I guess I'll start with the past and kind of work our way to the present and to the future. So in the past, you know, what has made the Boston Conservatory at Berkeley such a dynamic and strong program in its 157-year-old history is the fact that it really focuses holistically across singing, dancing, and acting as a musical theater trainer, as a musical theater artist.

[11:30] Tim Espinosa: And one of the things that it does so well is that the students walk away with a very, very strong, strong foundation in all three of those aspects. And that triple threat model has always been kind of the secret sauce of what makes a Boston Conservatory student so strong. And many of our professional colleagues that are out in the arena that are auditioning our students, they know when they come in, they know they're seeing a Boston Conservatory student because their technique is so on point and so strong.

[11:59] Tim Espinosa: And I think that has been what the environment that the Conservatory has fostered for so long since its inception. And as it relates to where we are today, I think it's an exciting time to think about what the future of the Conservatory can be. Also looking at what are the current structures, what are the past structures that have worked really well and serve the student body, but also acknowledging that the industry is shifting so rapidly, especially in a post-COVID world and, you know, post-George Floyd, post-Black Lives Matter, and ensuring that the kind of theater and the kind of environment for education that we want to create is serving our students, not only in terms of their artistic ability, but their humanity as well.

[12:38] Tim Espinosa: So we're having a lot of profound conversations currently about shaping and molding the conservatory mindset into what's called a contemporary conservatory. And a lot of people think, you know, the word conservatory, we're hanging onto, we're protecting, we're encapsulating the method or the philosophy around musical theater education. But I do believe that there is a space within the conservatory structure to start thinking even more outside the box and be more forward-thinking than many institutions that are out there.

[13:05] Tim Espinosa: And so that's something that really excites me, and that's something that excited me for taking this job, is what the future can be. And so I think we're in this major inflection point where we're asking some very, very exciting questions about the future of the conservatory. And with so much of the leadership changing over the past several years, you know, stepping into the role as chair of the theater division with my colleague, assistant chair Bridget Hayes, as well as we're currently in the process of searching for a brand new dean of theater.

[13:41] Tim Espinosa: So having this team really solidified going into the fall semester next year, I think just presents such a fantastic opportunity to map out a new vision for what the future can be. And of course, that will be facilitated by our new dean who will help us strategically envision that future. And then, you know, I'll be privileged to have the opportunity from an operational standpoint to put those visions into practice.

[14:06] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. So I think you really are, I mean, you're summarizing, I think, very well what I think the industry opinion of BoCo is. You know, I often ask schools like, hey, is there a discipline of the three that you focus on the most? And I do think it really does feel like the history of BoCo has been really, you could say, any of the three. I mean, there's a strong music, there's strong dance, there's strong acting. You know, not that every single actor is going to graduate and be a triple threat necessarily. But when you think about the program as a whole, I would say that that makes a lot of sense for the history of it. I'd love to hear.

[14:36] Tim Espinosa: You know, of course, you're still in the formulation of some of these conversations. I know we don't have like brand new curriculum to reveal today. That's going to be all the steps of how we move toward that vision. But you know, when you talk about making it a contemporary conservatory, when you talk about sort of modernizing and bringing us into 2024, what does that mean curriculum change-wise? So if I was looking at the curriculum at Poco currently, it's imagine I just listened to Michelle's episode, and she talked us through some of the basics. So please, if you want to give some of the basics of acting, singing, dancing, what they're doing, what am I weaving in? Or how is the curriculum changing to make that model shift?

[15:08] Tim Espinosa: Yeah, that's a great question. And a lot of that foundational training is still very much alive and well, you know, the prescriptive nature of our program. There's been a lot of intentionality that's been placed into, you know, how the first year acting sequence and musical theater training sequence and contemporary theater sequence goes. And every year is kind of scaffolded to further increase that training. You know, whereas the first year is really focused on the ensemble experience. What does it mean to exist within a group, to play within a group, to exist within a group? And a lot of that is carried not just within the musical theater class, but also the acting, the voice and movement, and the voice and speech classes, as well as their voice lessons.

[15:50] Tim Espinosa: As we evolve into the second year, it's really about understanding your individuality within your interpretation of music and interpretation of acting values. So we spend a lot more time on the individual. And then our third semester is really kind of bringing us back into space with partners. So we're doing a lot of scene work and the really focus revolves around that aspect of dialogue and song and choreography. And then our fourth year is really about industry prep, getting them ready for the business of theater, getting them ready to showcase, of course, and getting them ready for those next steps beyond their education. That has always been kind of like the prescription for the model.

[16:21] Tim Espinosa: So some of the areas that we're looking at, and I think it's something that I've been working to articulate that had existed, but maybe hasn't been brought as much to the forefront, is this idea of specializations that we offer. So in our third and fourth year of our students' education, they can lean into what are called specializations. Maybe you heard this from Michelle Chassé's previous podcast where she talked about dance emphasis. So thinking of, imagine a multi-hyphenate, a multi-dimensional artist, a multi-disciplinary artist that has a strong foundation in singing, dancing, and acting, but can also lean into other aspects of their artistic humanities, such as a deeper, profound understanding of dance or acting methodology or directing or songwriting.

[17:08] Tim Espinosa: We create specializations where students can lean into those aspects that they have a passion for and want to continue to explore. So the ideal graduate from the Boston Conservatory, I think in 2024 for us, has a strong foundation in honoring the past of singing, dancing, and acting, and really quantifying that, but also having other aspects of their humanity that are marketable and employable beyond just being on stage, whether it be in a producing capacity, stage management capacity, directing, or even writing the next chapter of musical theater. So these are within a BFA musical theater major. I would be a BFA musical theater major with potentially a directing emphasis or a songwriting. Or a specialization, yeah, correct.

[17:45] Tim Espinosa: Yeah, and so I think it offers, you know, a lot of our students, when I think when they come in, they're like, I've got, it's Broadway or bust. I'm gonna, I'm doing everything I can to get there. And then in four years, so much changes. You become so informed by every learning experience, all the community that you create, and your friends that you're hanging out with, and then the critical thinking that you engage in, in new kinds of ways. And that unlocks a new aspect of your artistic humanity that I really believe empowers our students to think more than just Broadway or bust.

[18:15] Tim Espinosa: You know, and so we want them to feel empowered that all roads don't lead to one stage. That they can do so much more with artistic expression. It makes so much sense. So I'm going to challenge you like we challenge our politicians as our, you know, our debt balloons as we go. We can always add more programs. And is anything coming out of the curriculum? You know, people always talk about like, well, here's what we're trying to add in or weave in. But you know, I would say the conservatory day was already pretty full for most students in most schools, right? So like, is there stuff that now as if I were to add in my directing emphasis or my songwriting emphasis, is there stuff that I'm potentially then taking less of? Are things becoming more optional that were in the required curriculum? How does that work?

[19:00] Tim Espinosa: Yeah, so the first and second year are pretty much prescriptive. So a lot of the first year students and the secondary students, they have a pretty busy load on top of the rehearsals for their evening shows and everything that's going on. It's really in the third year where in the core curriculum, the electives start to free up. And then by senior year, it's almost a majority of elective options for them, whether it be acting electives, musical theater, movement, voice, or directing electives. So we kind of opening up the freedom of choice within their curriculum in their junior and their senior year.

[19:32] Tim Espinosa: And so that's where those specializations or emphasis really kind of come into play. Yep. And how does that work? I mean, we talked a bit about this in the show, but how does it work with potentially my acting or my contemporary theater BFAs? How do they interact with those electives or even beforehand? You know, let's maybe envision I'm an actor who loves to sing, but I'm not a musical theater person. I want to dance. Would I have the opportunity to take musical classes? At what point? How would I sort of sneak into those if I wanted to? And then I guess vice versa, if there's any extra acting class I want to take as a musical theater major.

[20:04] Tim Espinosa: Yeah, our contemporary theater program is really kind of, it's really a unique entity, and there aren't many undergraduate programs that offer anything the likes of the immersive ensemble-based nature of our contemporary theater program. And one of the conversations, you know, we talked earlier in this conversation about what does the future look like and where are we in the present, is finding ways we can bring more unity and more harmony between both of the programs. When I say harmony, I mean more about playing in the same sandbox together.

[20:29] Tim Espinosa: And I think there's a very strong desire by our student population to have both contemporary theater students and musical theater students collaborating together, and they can be so informed. Even though both of the curriculums are uniquely specific in their own right, there are plenty of avenues for collaboration. And so, for example, our advanced acting classes that our senior students can take, it's an elective, but we're opening those up to the contemporary theater students. And so now contemporary theater and musical theater students will be collaborating together in the same space. And we're constantly finding avenues for that to occur for both MTs and for CTs as well.

[21:05] Tim Espinosa: Yep. And you mentioned, you know, in some of the three years or the three different focuses of the years, you didn't happen to mention like styles and stuff. Like, is that something where musical theater majors, like, is something like a Shakespeare class, is that optional? Is that something that they are, and then, but the contemporary theaters are automatically taking that or those optional for both in terms of those sort of acting styles of commedia dell'arte or any of those kinds of other things that are not in sort of contemporary musical theater?

[21:30] Tim Espinosa: Absolutely. And we offer heightened text. Our students focus on heightened text during their junior year. So they're introduced to that element of heightened text, whether it be classical Shakespeare or be some of Shakespeare's contemporaries, just working on that genre of theater. But also we offer elective courses such as Shakespeare voice, Shakespeare text. We're actually, one of our tracks in our advanced acting elective that's coming up is going to be dedicated to working on the Scottish play. So our students will get that aspect.

[22:00] Tim Espinosa: We're just actually opening up a brand new interdisciplinary minor called Circus Arts, where we're actually going to be working with the dance division and the Berklee College of Music to offer classes like vertical bar, juggling, gymnastics, acrobatics, and including commedia dell'arte as one of our new electives as well. So again, another thing that makes the conservatory so unique is you don't get a watered down version of some aspects of acting. You can lean into some very niche aspects of your training, whether it be mask work, clown, commedia dell'arte, or in the realm of voice and speech and movement linked later and Feldenkraist and not just like a unit, we're talking about a class, an entire class dedicated to those very specific learning modalities.

[22:45] Tim Espinosa: So cool. And then you can walk right into Water for Elephants off of your circus class or whatever. I'd love to talk a little bit about, you know, we mentioned the relationship with Berklee. So if you can talk a little bit about maybe the history of the relationship, what that unique relationship is. I know many of our students get confused about where am I going? Is it the same college? Are they two different colleges? How does that work? So I'd just love to talk a little bit about that.

[23:13] Tim Espinosa: It's a great question. I'm happy to articulate it. So several years ago, the Boston Conservatory and the Berklee College of Music merged into one institution or one Berklee. So the best way to kind of think of it, if I'm creating a visual outline is the Berklee is the umbrella. And then underneath the umbrella exists two schools. There's the College of Music, which is traditionally the Berklee College of Music. And then we have the Boston Conservatory at Berklee. And they both are, and I think part of the merger and the agreement and the understanding of the merger was that there are very specific needs that both institutions have. And they have to exist with a certain level of autonomy in order to maintain the history and the legacy of what the Boston Conservatory at Berklee has been known for, as well as the Berklee College of Music.

[24:00] Tim Espinosa: And so one really exciting thing that's come out of this merger is there's still the freedom and the bandwidth for both institutions to be equally represented, but supported in their own unique kinds of ways. The other advantage of being under one Berklee is that as the Boston Conservatory, it opened up access to resources, the likes that the conservatory never had, you know, opening up a designated DEI office or, or accessibility and mental and health will mental and health resources that never were available to our conservatory students, that now they have full access to this.

[24:38] Tim Espinosa: And then as far as curriculum goes, our students have the ability to engage in interdisciplinary projects, clubs, classes that they would never have that access to. You know, we have a lot of students that take guitar for songwriting over on the college side, or take very specific classes that we just don't have the space in our schedule to offer that align with the musical theater program, but just we haven't had the need to offer. And so the Berklee College of Music offers it and we open up to our students.

[25:04] Tim Espinosa: And am I correct in the understanding that you also are collaborating with stuff like, you know, their, their orchestras may play for your musicals and things like that, where you're actually using the Berklee students. What a great talk about an amazing, you know, you don't always let me. One of my, one of the most exciting things about this merger in this collaboration is the fact that we get, it's opened up the doors for the collaboration of all those amazing songwriters and music students that are on the college side to collaborate with our musical theater performers.

[25:28] Tim Espinosa: So, so for example, our musicals now in a world, say 20 years ago, where 99% of the students came from just the music division, which we still have very much. So we still have an integral part of our, of our orchestras or the music division. I work with Matthew Marcet, our chair of instrumental studies and the college to actually now, because of the way the shows are written and the more contemporary nature of shows, we need to bring in some of those electric guitarists and some of those electric bassists, those, those instrumentalists that don't necessarily reside within the music division, but reside on the college side.

[26:02] Tim Espinosa: And so, you know, as we look to doing more pop, pop rock shows, more, more shows that have more of a rock sentimentality it's a perfect opportunity to increase that collaboration. Our showcases and our reviews, you know, we just finished a couple of different reviews and showcases that the students self-produced where they, they brought in their friends from the college who they had a full band. And so almost every showcase we has has a band.

[26:32] Tim Espinosa: Yeah. That's a, that's a resource that not every college has. They just don't really have that many amazing, talented musicians. Let's talk a little bit about class size. I don't want to talk about class size in both contexts. Just, we did talk about this, I believe with Michelle, but just to kind of clarify, you know, anytime someone hears 60, 80 people in a class or whatever that number is, you know, we're using the word class to sometimes we'll use the word cohort, meaning an incoming freshman class. Obviously your classes themselves are not 80 people wide in terms of you're not having 80 people in a class. So talk to me a little bit about how you break down currently, how you break down the 60 to 80, but then also, I know we have visions for potentially shrinking that number. And I'd love to talk a little bit about that in terms of where that's going.

[27:05] Tim Espinosa: Yeah. So up until this year, most of the class sizes have resided around 60 to 80 students. You're right. So somewhere in that ballpark, some, some classes are around 65 students. Some classes have in the past had been as high as 75. And one of the things that I, when stepping into this position, I wanted to work really closely with our executive leadership is to see if we can articulate ways to reduce those size numbers, to maintain our competitive edge with the other high top tier, top ranking programs, but also having taught at an institution like OU in the past, which intentionally keeps its class size really small.

[27:48] Tim Espinosa: And I think that's amazing. And other schools that are, you know, anywhere between 12 and 24 students in their entire first year class, I think students that perspective students are looking at looking at that number and weighing their decision on that. And so one of the first things I realized was we can only be so big. We have to think about the kind of experience and the kind of community that we want to offer at a conservatory. And so I advocated really strong, the leadership advocated really strong to ensure that we try to recruit a class of 50 to 55 students for this incoming class.

[28:30] Tim Espinosa: So we are working intentionally to reduce our numbers from anywhere between 75 to 65 to somewhere between 50 and 55 students. And our dream and our vision, our goal is to ensure that that happens every single, every single academic year moving forward. So 50 ish incoming classes. And what would that mean class wise in terms of how you break down an acting class? Do you break that into three acting class or how does 50 or 60 currently, how does that break down in terms of specific acting classes and, you know, another class?

[28:47] Tim Espinosa: So what we do is we do cohorts. So our first year students will come in and they'll be assigned a cohort. And each of those cohorts we'll have for the incoming class, we'll have four cohorts and each cohort will have 12 students. And so our goal is to create the conditions of that very niche, very small.

[29:12] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, and today we have a fantastic guest with us, Tim Espinosa, the Chair of Theater at Boston Conservatory. Tim, it's great to have you back for Act 2!

[29:42] Tim Espinosa: Thanks, Charlie! I'm excited to be here and continue our conversation about the Boston Conservatory and the theater program.

[30:12] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely! So, let's dive right in. One of the things I wanted to touch on is the next generation of leadership at Boston Conservatory. How do you see that evolving, and what does it mean for students?

[30:42] Tim Espinosa: The next generation of leadership is really about fostering an environment where students feel empowered to take risks and explore their creativity. We're focusing on collaboration and innovation, ensuring that our students are not just learning traditional methods but also how to adapt and thrive in a changing industry.

[31:12] Charlie Murphy: That sounds incredible. And speaking of the industry, there’s always a lot of talk about the top ten school lists. Are those something that students should really pay attention to?

[31:42] Tim Espinosa: It’s a mixed bag. While those lists can provide some insight into programs that are well-regarded, they shouldn't be the sole factor in a student's decision. Every student's journey is unique, and what works for one may not work for another. It's essential to consider the specific strengths of each program and how they align with your personal goals.

[32:02] Charlie Murphy: That makes a lot of sense. So, when it comes to class sizes, what should students be looking for? What’s the right class size for them?

[32:22] Tim Espinosa: Class size can significantly impact a student's experience. Smaller classes often allow for more personalized attention and feedback, which can be crucial in a performing arts program. However, larger classes can provide a broader range of perspectives and networking opportunities. It really depends on what kind of learning environment a student thrives in.

[32:42] Charlie Murphy: Great insights, Tim. I think it’s important for students to really reflect on their own learning styles when considering these factors.

[33:02] Tim Espinosa: Absolutely, Charlie. Self-awareness is key in this process. Students should ask themselves what kind of support they need and what kind of environment will help them flourish.

[33:22] Charlie Murphy: And as they navigate this journey, what advice would you give to students who are preparing for their college auditions?

[33:42] Tim Espinosa: Preparation is everything. I always tell students to focus on authenticity. Choose material that resonates with you personally, and don’t be afraid to showcase your unique voice. Also, practice, practice, practice! The more comfortable you are with your material, the more confident you’ll be during the audition.

[34:02] Charlie Murphy: That’s fantastic advice. Confidence can really make a difference in how students present themselves.

[34:12] Tim Espinosa: Exactly. And remember, auditions are not just about getting accepted; they’re also an opportunity to learn more about yourself as an artist.

[34:22] Charlie Murphy: Well said, Tim. Thank you for sharing your insights today. It’s always a pleasure to have you on the show.

[34:32] Tim Espinosa: Thank you, Charlie! I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these important topics.

[34:42] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com. Don’t forget to check out our events and resources at mtcollegeauditions.com. Until next time!

[57:09] Tim Espinosa: So we have two deadlines, basically.

[57:13] Tim Espinosa: We have what's called early action, and we have regular action.

[57:16] Tim Espinosa: Early action, the cutoff for submissions for early action is November 1, I believe.

[57:22] Tim Espinosa: And then so anyone that wants to submit their applications, their pre-screened materials onto SlideRoom between, say, the late August and November 1, they can do that for consideration for early action.

[57:34] Tim Espinosa: Which means if you submit for early action, the potential to receive an acceptance notice is going to be shortly after that, within a couple weeks.

[57:43] Tim Espinosa: And then we have regular action, which kicks in basically from November 1.

[58:25] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, and today we have the pleasure of continuing our conversation with Tim Espinosa, the Chair of Theater at Boston Conservatory. Tim, thanks for being here again.

[58:55] Tim Espinosa: Thank you for having me, Charlie. It's great to be back.

[59:15] Charlie Murphy: So, let's dive right in. Last time we touched on the importance of leadership in theater programs. Can you tell us more about the next generation of leadership at Boston Conservatory?

[59:35] Tim Espinosa: Absolutely. At Boston Conservatory, we are really focusing on cultivating a new generation of leaders who are not only skilled artists but also understand the importance of collaboration and community. We believe that leadership in the arts is about empowering others and creating spaces where diverse voices can thrive.

[59:55] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. How do you see that reflected in the curriculum or the training that students receive?

[1:00:25] Tim Espinosa: Our curriculum is designed to be collaborative. We encourage students to work together across disciplines—acting, dance, and music. This interdisciplinary approach helps them develop a broader understanding of theater and prepares them for the realities of the industry, where collaboration is key.

[1:00:45] Charlie Murphy: Speaking of collaboration, what are your thoughts on the top ten school lists? Are they something students should pay attention to?

[1:01:05] Tim Espinosa: That's a great question. While those lists can provide some insight into programs, I think it's essential for students to focus more on what feels right for them personally. Every program has its strengths, and what works for one student may not work for another. It's about finding the right fit.

[1:01:25] Charlie Murphy: So, what advice would you give to students who are trying to determine what class size is right for them?

[1:01:45] Tim Espinosa: Class size can significantly impact a student's experience. Smaller classes often allow for more individualized attention and mentorship, while larger classes can provide a broader range of perspectives. I recommend students visit campuses, attend classes if possible, and talk to current students to get a feel for the environment.

[1:02:05] Charlie Murphy: That's excellent advice. Now, what about the audition process itself? What should students keep in mind as they prepare?

[1:02:25] Tim Espinosa: Preparation is key. Students should be authentic in their auditions, showcasing their unique talents and personalities. It's also important to research the programs they are applying to and tailor their materials accordingly. Understanding what each school values can make a significant difference.

[1:02:45] Charlie Murphy: And how can students best showcase their authenticity during auditions?

[1:03:05] Tim Espinosa: Students should choose material that resonates with them personally. Whether it's a monologue, song, or dance piece, it should reflect who they are as artists. Additionally, being open and honest during the audition process can help them connect with the panel.

[1:03:25] Charlie Murphy: That's such a valuable perspective. As we wrap up, what final thoughts do you have for students navigating this process?

[1:03:45] Tim Espinosa: Trust the journey. It's a challenging process, but every step is an opportunity for growth. Stay true to yourself, seek out support, and remember that rejection is part of the journey. Each experience will bring you closer to where you need to be.

[1:04:05] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, Tim. It's been a pleasure having you on the show again.

[1:04:25] Tim Espinosa: Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts.

[1:04:45] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com. Join us next time for more insights and tips on navigating your college audition journey.

[1:13:02] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. I’m your host, Charlie Murphy, and today we’re diving back into our conversation with Tim Espinosa, the Chair of Theater at Boston Conservatory. Tim, it’s great to have you back on the show.

[1:13:32] Tim Espinosa: Thanks, Charlie! It’s great to be here again.

[1:13:52] Charlie Murphy: Last time we talked about the Boston Conservatory’s approach to training and the unique aspects of your program. Today, I want to explore some of the next generation of leadership at BOCO and what that means for students.

[1:14:22] Tim Espinosa: Absolutely. We’re really excited about the direction the Conservatory is heading. We have a lot of new initiatives that focus on inclusivity and diversity, which are crucial for the future of theater.

[1:14:52] Charlie Murphy: That’s fantastic to hear. Can you share some specific examples of those initiatives?

[1:15:12] Tim Espinosa: Sure! One of the key initiatives is our commitment to creating a more inclusive curriculum that reflects the diverse voices in theater today. We’re also focusing on mentorship programs that connect students with industry professionals from various backgrounds.

[1:15:32] Charlie Murphy: That sounds like a great way to prepare students for the real world. Speaking of preparation, how important do you think those top ten school lists are for prospective students?

[1:15:52] Tim Espinosa: That’s a great question. While those lists can provide some insight, I think it’s more important for students to find a program that fits their individual needs and goals rather than just chasing rankings.

[1:16:12] Charlie Murphy: I completely agree. Finding the right fit is essential. What advice would you give to students who are trying to determine what class size is right for them?

[1:16:32] Tim Espinosa: Class size can really impact a student’s experience. I recommend that students consider how much individual attention they want from faculty and how comfortable they feel in larger versus smaller settings. Visiting campuses and attending classes can help with that decision.

[1:16:52] Charlie Murphy: That’s excellent advice. It’s all about finding that balance. Now, let’s talk about the audition process. What are some key things students should keep in mind when preparing for auditions at BOCO?

[1:17:12] Tim Espinosa: Preparation is key! Students should focus on selecting material that showcases their unique talents and personalities. It’s also important to be authentic and true to themselves during the audition.

[1:17:32] Charlie Murphy: Authenticity is so important. What else can students do to stand out during the audition process?

[1:17:52] Tim Espinosa: I encourage students to do their research on the program and the faculty. Being able to articulate why they want to be at Boston Conservatory and how they can contribute to the community can really make a difference.

[1:18:12] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great point. It shows that they’re invested in the program. Now, what about the role of technology in auditions? How has that changed the landscape?

[1:18:32] Tim Espinosa: Technology has definitely changed the game. With virtual auditions becoming more common, students need to be comfortable performing on camera and understanding how to present themselves in that medium.

[1:18:52] Charlie Murphy: That’s a crucial skill to develop. Do you have any tips for students on how to prepare for virtual auditions?

[1:19:12] Tim Espinosa: Yes! Students should practice in the environment they’ll be auditioning in. This means testing their technology, ensuring good lighting, and being aware of their background. It’s all about creating a professional atmosphere.

[1:19:32] Charlie Murphy: Those are fantastic tips. As we wrap up, what final thoughts do you have for students navigating the college audition process?

[1:19:52] Tim Espinosa: I would say to trust the process and remember that every rejection is an opportunity for growth. Stay focused on your goals and keep honing your craft.

[1:20:12] Charlie Murphy: Wise words, Tim. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your insights about Boston Conservatory and the audition process.

[1:20:32] Tim Espinosa: Thank you for having me, Charlie! It’s always a pleasure to chat with you.

[1:20:52] Charlie Murphy: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. If you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com. Don’t forget to check out our events and resources at mtcollegeauditions.com. Until next time!