This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process.

[0:19] Charlie Murphy: I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. And today we have a whole Broadway ensemble of a show lined up for you.

[0:29] Charlie Murphy: Cameron Adams, who I know from her being one of Elizabeth's best friends, is on the show to talk about her amazing career in Broadway Ensemblers. She is such a game guest, and I really think you're gonna enjoy the perspective she brings to the episode.

[0:43] Charlie Murphy: It is a different one than a lot of the other Broadway actors we've brought on so far. Uh today on the show, we talk about the bravery that can leave us with age, the decision to maybe go back to school or not, um, because Cameron had a really early success on Broadway.

[0:59] Charlie Murphy: Uh, we talk about the qualities that make a great ensemble member. We talk about the differences of swings, covers, standbys, and understudies, and some of her advice for such. We talk about pre-production experience, what it is to choreograph um before the choreography comes to the Broadway show.

[1:17] Charlie Murphy: Uh, we talk about the commitment it takes to be the Lebron James of Broadway and sort of recovery and maintenance for dancers. Uh, we talk about advocating for yourself on Broadway, and then Cameron plays a game of understudies nightmare.

[1:31] Charlie Murphy: Understudy nightmare, maybe we called it, where I can see if Cameron remembers her cues from 20 years ago. It was a very difficult game, and she played it very well. It was super fun for me.

[1:41] Charlie Murphy: But Megan, before we dive into the episode, I hear you have a bone to pick with me from this very episode. Is that true?

[1:46] Meghan Cordier: Yes, big bone. Um in this episode, you were chatting with Cameron about, you know, one of your many sports analogies, and you then scoffed that, oh, Megan must not understand this.

[1:58] Meghan Cordier: And I would just like to say, one, how rude. And two, just because I don't out least outwardly say all these sports uh metaphors in our podcast, doesn't mean that I don't understand them or have some of my own.

[2:11] Meghan Cordier: I'm just conservatively keeping it on the inside and now outwardly showing it to all of our listeners all the time.

[2:18] Charlie Murphy: Now, Megan, I'm gonna let you behind the curtain a little bit. This is now because we've become so close. I think of you as me, and as myself, I often play a little dumb in asking questions that I already know the answers to.

[2:30] Charlie Murphy: So I was like using you as an audience to say, like, oh, Megan doesn't understand, in case someone else didn't understand some of these advanced sports concepts. But I knew that you sure all right.

[2:40] Meghan Cordier: Well, I have been told, I have heard it deeply in my soul. Um, and now, chastened as I am, let's get to the episode.

[2:53] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to have Cameron Adams on the pod today. Cameron has been in Broadway in this is gonna take a deep breath, the music man, Oklahoma, hairspray, crybaby Shrek promises promises how to succeed in business without really trying.

[3:06] Charlie Murphy: Nice work if you can get it. Gigi, she loves me. Hello, Dolly, my fair lady, and Mrs. Doubtfire currently. She's also been off Broadway and in a lot of national tours on TV and stuff like FBI, Law and Order, Organized Crime, The Americans, which I love that show, and she's taught everywhere.

[3:20] Charlie Murphy: She's taught a lot of places, teaches at Broadway Dance Center at the Performing Arts Project, though not yet with me, but we've uh missed each other at the Performing Arts Project, and is recently in a documentary called Ensemble, which is a big chunk of what we'll talk about today.

[3:33] Charlie Murphy: And side note, this was produced by our very first artist guest on this pod, Mr. Telly Liang. Cameron, welcome on the pod. How are you feeling today?

[3:41] Cameron Adams: I feel super excited to be here. So thank you for having me.

[3:47] Charlie Murphy: Oh, it's a joy, a true joy. I'm I'm really excited to have you on, not only because you're such a delightful human and I just want to interact with you in all ways, but I really I like the specific path to success you've had.

[3:58] Charlie Murphy: This is not one that we've had yet on the pod, right? We really want to talk about all the different roads taken, you know, that can lead you to success in this business. And I really want to talk about your specific road. So why don't we start off with that?

[4:09] Charlie Murphy: You made your Broadway debut as a teen, right? As a as a young person.

[4:13] Cameron Adams: Yeah.

[4:13] Cameron Adams: And I basically worked nonstop. So first I I'd love to maybe just talk about like what was it like performing as a teen on Broadway? I feel like that's like every high school theater kid's dream, but it's like terrifying too.

[4:25] Cameron Adams: Like we had Gavin on the pod, Gavin Crayle on the pod, and he was like, mostly high school theater was like just getting caked in Ben Nye makeup and having a good time. And I'm like, that was you, except you're on Broadway.

[4:34] Cameron Adams: Like it's a whole different level for it. So tell me a little bit about that. What was that experience like?

[4:39] Cameron Adams: Um, I mean, crazy. You know, I look back at that time now, and it's really interesting to look back and think about it now as an adult who's been doing this for like over 20 years.

[4:51] Cameron Adams: And at the time, honestly, all I was was just the most excited, the most pumped. Um, couldn't believe it was happening. And I think there's something interesting at that age, um, which you guys know as well, obviously doing what you do, but um, there's a a bravery that sometimes can leave us with age and experience because we start to learn more and know more and whatever.

[5:16] Cameron Adams: And so at that kind of stage in the game, I I was certainly not on a trajectory of like trying to be on Broadway as a teenager or whatever. It was a really special, kind of unique set of circumstances that got me there.

[5:29] Cameron Adams: And um I embraced them and I ran with it. And um it it kind of couldn't have been a better first experience. I really realize that now, looking back, having done more stuff, you know.

[5:40] Charlie Murphy: I'm obsessed with that phrase. Bravery that leaves us with age and experience. That's such a well-codified way of saying something. I've tried to get to of like, like I used to talk about like at 17, I was such a good actor in some ways.

[5:50] Charlie Murphy: There's lots I didn't know, but there's something I had at 17, because it was you didn't know what you didn't know, and you had you had the bravery of ignorance or the bravery of use or I don't know. So all of it.

[6:01] Charlie Murphy: Give me a little bit of the specific mechanics, you know uh, you know, as much as you want to tell, but how does it literally happen? I think you know, how does one become a Broadway actor at what was the actual age that you you were doing the show?

[6:12] Cameron Adams: Uh I was 17 by the time I started. I I think I auditioned I was still 16.

[6:17] Cameron Adams: But um I and I was a it was the the last revival of the music man in 2000. And um, so I am from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. I didn't have an agent. I had like a not a real headshot, you know.

[6:35] Cameron Adams: Um, I went to my church to have voice lessons. I mean, you know, it was just I I just knew I wanted to try to do this, but I was starting to look at colleges and things like that and what the next step was gonna be.

[6:47] Cameron Adams: And so um I happened to do a lot of like dance competitions and conventions, which um one of the pluses of many of those organizations, not all of them, but some of the the really top-notch ones, like this one, which is called New York City Dance Alliance, is that they offer um scholarship opportunities for students to take class in New York City dance classes or or musical theater classes, voice lessons, all that kind of stuff, and through an that organization, um I got to know a gentleman named Joe Lantieri, who runs uh that company and owns that organization.

[7:23] Cameron Adams: He teaches, he's full-time uh artistic director at Steps on Broadway. He teaches at Juilliard. So a casting director, the late Jay Bender, um, rest in peace. Uh you know, he reached out to Joe and said, I'm doing a revival of the music man, and I need a ton of kids.

[7:43] Cameron Adams: They need it between the ages of like eight and eighteen. They need to look different, they need to be able to sing and dance, dance being the priority. Um, and uh, can you recommend a bunch of kids?

[7:57] Cameron Adams: And he recommended me. And so I got a call from my mom got a call from from Jay himself, who said, Look, we want Cameron to come up and audition for the music man.

[8:08] Cameron Adams: And come up from South Carolina, yes. And um, Polaroid headshot or whatever you're bringing. Sure, sure, sure, sure. And um, and a 100% inappropriate song to sing.

[8:18] Cameron Adams: And um, I almost didn't come up because it was uh homecoming weekend, and I was student body vice president, and there was pep rallies and things.

[8:30] Cameron Adams: Actually, it's like drama at the school, they're like Cameron. Oh my god, okay. Well, I actually exactly I looked at my mom and I said, I'm never gonna get this. What's the point?

[8:40] Cameron Adams: My mom goes, That's not the point. The point is what a cool learning experience this is gonna be. Um she's pretty smart, turns out, but she, you know, said, What a cool learning experience.

[8:52] Cameron Adams: We'll go see a show while we're there, and you'll have this incredible life story. And um, not thinking that I would get a call back. And so we flew up and I got a call back.

[9:03] Cameron Adams: And then my mom was like, oh shoot, this was not the plan at all. Yeah. So we flew back up for the callback. And it was at um it was at New York City Center, actually, at the callback, which could not be more beautiful and more intimidating.

[9:18] Cameron Adams: And uh, and then I got it. And it was unbelievable.

[9:22] Charlie Murphy: It feels shocking that at 17. In some ways, like, first the fact that you were not in New York City. So like you had to fly up and you got discovered that way. But also it seems like most kid actors on Broadway are like nine.

[9:33] Charlie Murphy: Like that, like sometimes a 17-year-old, we can kind of get away with a 21-year-old, and you know, who kind of looks young. And like, like a lot, like a lot of BFA grads are like, come on, Cameron, don't take my spot.

[9:42] Charlie Murphy: Like, you know, how how much younger do you really look than me at 21 or 22?

[9:46] Cameron Adams: Well, it's funny. That's what I was gonna say is I did. I was such a late bloomer.

[9:50] Cameron Adams: So I was 17, but I played originally in the show 13 or 14.

[9:54] Cameron Adams: I see.

[9:55] Cameron Adams: I hadn't finished growing. I yeah, it was just a real late bloomer. So I looked so 16 going on 13, is what you're telling me.

[10:02] Cameron Adams: Kind of, yeah. And so um, and then I did have some growth that first year, and so after the first year of the run, I ended up bumping up and playing Zanita, who is supposed to be 16 or 17 or whatever.

[10:13] Cameron Adams: And um, yeah, so it was a it was we crazy. I want to talk a little bit about both two little things you mentioned.

[10:21] Charlie Murphy: So, first, the college of it all. So you said you started looking at colleges.

[10:22] Cameron Adams: Sure.

[10:25] Charlie Murphy: How did you then first I'd love to hear a little bit what what you started or started moving in that direction, and then how did that interact with okay, but now I'm actually working on the Broadway.

[10:34] Cameron Adams: Um, we have a student actually, we have an MTCA student in this is a beautiful circle, who's in your show, right? Mrs. Doubtfire, who was like auditioning for colleges and booked Broadway from Unified's in Chicago.

[10:45] Cameron Adams: And I know a really difficult decision of like, do I want to do still want to go to school, but of course I have the thing that you're waiting for that you try to do after school.

[10:53] Cameron Adams: And so how were you navigating it then? And then I guess did it did it start then at some point, like after the run of the show, do you go, but now do I go to school or what do I do? Or talk me through that uh trajectory for you.

[11:05] Cameron Adams: That was yeah, that's it's so spot on because that was um that was the tricky part is we, you know, we didn't know how long the show was gonna run.

[11:14] Cameron Adams: Everyone was very honest with us about how um because we knew so little about what a gamble this was of whether the show would even run, you know.

[11:23] Cameron Adams: And um, so we were sort of prepared for that. And the plan was always well, if this opens and closes and is a big giant flop, then I come back home and I finish high school with everyone, and I just keep going, you know, and we just go back to quote unquote normal.

[11:38] Cameron Adams: And so that was not the case, and we kind of realized that early on it was it got well reviewed, and and we were selling tickets, and it was a it was a big hit, and um, especially for a revival.

[11:49] Cameron Adams: And so I uh got the show open and I finished high school a little bit early. Um, through also my high school principal um helped organize a situation so that I could graduate through my high school technically and do uh correspondence.

[12:04] Cameron Adams: Like he was he played in the NFL for years, and uh a mentor sort of helped him get to that point, and he said, We're gonna help you get achieve this dream, and they were incredible.

[12:15] Cameron Adams: So Ronnie Burgess, the the most incredible man, but so um when I got open and I sort of got the show going and I finished school, I looked around and I just looked at all of my older uh castmates who had been doing this for a while, and I said, What's what do I need to do if I'm not going to college right now?

[12:33] Cameron Adams: They're like, you need to take acting classes, you need to take voice lessons. I just immersed myself in class.

[12:38] Cameron Adams: Um continued to dance a ton, but that was sort of my strongest thing, um, especially at that age. And and um, so I knew I really needed to focus on singing and I needed to focus on acting, and that's what I did.

[12:52] Cameron Adams: And kept in the back of my mind, it's not like I took college off the table. It was like, if this presents itself and I stop working or I'm not enjoying this, um, then I go to school. You know.

[13:04] Charlie Murphy: I love it. I mean, in some ways it feels a not so different, though a little earlier than the path some of our BA majors take, where they go, I didn't quite get enough specialized training from I got a BA, I studied history, got a little theater, but you know, but then I come to the city, and now I'm really immersing myself in acting classes and dance classes, getting a little, you're like, you jumped right to that.

[13:23] Charlie Murphy: But also then the scary thing, and I guess this is where I want to bring the parents into it, is like you're also without a net from a BA perspective now. So it's not like, well, if this doesn't work out, she can always go back. How did your mom feel about that? I mean, you know, how did were there discussions about what's your backup plan? And what's I mean, I know that's what a lot of our parents listening would be like, I just need you to have a degree because what if we don't end up with a 20 Broadway shows you ended up with, right? How does that work? How do your parents feel about that at the time?

[13:51] Cameron Adams: It's crazy, Charlie, because I do not ever remember a time that either one of my parents said, I really don't remember a time that I was said we should think of a second career just in case. It was like you have to be smart with your money. Cause also I didn't come from a family that was like, let me just we'll just give you money and you'll move to New York, it'll be great. Like when I moved to New York at 17, it was like this is how we write our rent check with the money that you're bringing on. You better believe it. You know, it was not, it was not a situation. I was learning about a 401k and this and that, health insurance, all those things. So yeah, it was a it was it they never once said, but they were very adamant about me being smart and humble about it all.

So like taking the ego part out of it, it was like, yes, you're doing a Broadway show, but if it doesn't continue, then you go and you get that job as the hostess at the barbecue restaurant, which I did. You know, I when I teach, I tell my students I did three Broadway shows and then I was hostessing at a barbecue restaurant for a little while. Because I was in at that point in my early 20s, still looked really young and had kind of run out of teenage roles to play. You know, all the shows were like sexy show girls, and I was like not. So I'm 22 going on 15 now. Come on. So yeah, you know, it was more like being humble about that kind of stuff too, and also realistic that if I'm unhappy and this isn't what I thought it was going to be, that school is there. It's there, it's there for me if I need it at all times.

[15:27] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we talk about that a lot of like Broadway jobs are never constant. For you, they seem like they were about as close to constant as they can be. Like this is resume.

[15:35] Cameron Adams: Oh my gosh.

[15:35] Charlie Murphy: But for most people, that's really like, yeah, you could be a lead on Broadway, have an amazing thing, and then there's a year where you do nothing. You have to be a copywriter or whatever you end up doing, or especially for leads. If you're just focusing on playing leads, it's so much, it's a smaller pool and it's much harder, obviously. We're gonna get into that for sure.

[15:51] Cameron Adams: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:51] Charlie Murphy: But I want to talk a little bit about your dance background too, because I do think this choice tends to be a little bit more common for people in the dance world. In the same way you talked about NFL athletes or I love the NBA, so I'm often using that NBA analogy of like sure maybe Lebron James can jump at 18, but not everybody is capable at 18 to go, I can jump right to the league. It does seem like the athleticism of a dancer, maybe who's been working from a very young age, could lead toward a little bit more, hey, this is really useful right now. I mean, I know in the ballet world it's much more common that you're like very young and you're jumping right to the thing. As opposed to acting and singing, where maybe it's a little more common that you're, you know, still a young person's game. You're not going to New York at 35, but you may be going, I'm 22 and and I'm still, you know, I have a little more maturity to my voice or a little more maturity to my acting.

[16:37] Cameron Adams: Yeah.

[16:37] Charlie Murphy: But so I'm jumping ahead to the answer, but tell me a little bit, what was your dance training? How young do we start? Were you doing a lot of dance?

[16:44] Cameron Adams: Yeah, I um I started really young. I started at three or four. I guess I was yeah, I started at right after right before I turned four. But those are those classes that like, you know, my mom was a dance teacher and she taught little ones like that. And that's like, you know, that's just like let's have an activity and we're doing a thing and whatever. But I technically started then, but at that point I was trying everything. My parents were really good at with me and my brother about like try all the things and let's see what sticks. And so I played basketball until middle school. It's my favorite sport as well. I, you know, played football in the neighborhood, we played basketball in the neighborhood, we I played soccer, I tried all the things and dance just I loved it, but I also excelled at it quite quickly.

It was it came fairly easy to me. And so I really stuck it out and then got to a certain age about 12, and I started going away in the summers and studying at summer programs, ballet programs primarily, and modern dance programs. And there was a brief time I thought maybe I would go the modern dance route and just loved singing and acting just too much. I loved all those things and I mean there was a period I was looking to do my senior year of high school at North Carolina School of the Arts in their modern dance program. Yes. Because I had done some summers with them. But then when Music Man sort of presented itself, it seemed like that was what I really wanted to focus on. That experience feels like there's a certain subset, and I think you kind of know who you are if you if you're that really intense.

It'd be like the equivalent of like a travel athlete or whatever. You're really already at that level from a dance perspective, that it seems like sometimes they feel as if they've already gone to conservatory, that they're coming to us at 18 and they might be saying, I do want more singing and acting training if that's the goal. But from a dance perspective that you already are coming in where conservatory would be more like grad school for you, because you're like, I've been intensely training since I was 11 or since I was 12.

[18:40] Cameron Adams: Totally. I mean, that's when I really got to that point too, where it was just at the you know, like in high school, I was at the dance studio till 10 o'clock almost every night, you know, 9:30 every night when you come home and you do your homework really quickly and you go to bed and get up and do it over again. It's like it's like an athlete, like a com like you're saying, um like training for the Olympics or that kind of thing. Because at that point I knew I was gonna try to do it, you know, in some capacity.

[19:03] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. All right. Let me ask you such an unfair question, but I just have to do it. Um and we can cut it if you hate this question so much. But um, if you could teleport back and you get to say I have the same exact career, but this is just you now get to go back and do the college of it all. What kind of schools would you've looked at? What kind of schools would you have wanted to go to, or even what you know now? Like, where do you get to go? Like, I wish I'd had this college experience.

[19:25] Cameron Adams: Well, I wish I had had a college experience that didn't feel super intimidating in the sense that like you're at one of those schools where it's really scary and everyone feels this pressure to outperform each other and whatever.

[19:38] Charlie Murphy: What are you talking about?

[19:39] Cameron Adams: Yeah, get drop those names.

[19:40] Charlie Murphy: What are the school things?

[19:43] Cameron Adams: I don't know enough. To be honest, I really don't know enough to drop the names because I I don't, you know, know enough. But um, I think what I would have loved to have is that opportunity to play the parts that you're not totally right for because you're doing a college production of something and you're playing Aunt Eller or you're playing like, you know, whatever. Like I think I would have loved that. Because even in high school you weren't getting to There was no high school theater program. No. There was no I didn't do a high school musical. I did church plays at my church. The first for real scene work that I ever did was on Broadway in the Music Man.

[20:21] Charlie Murphy: Oh my god.

[20:22] Cameron Adams: And now you're all playing roles that you're commercially correct for, as opposed to, you know, even if maybe someone will go against type in the way they cast, but but you're not getting to play. I played the captain in Titanic when I was 16.

[20:31] Charlie Murphy: That's what I mean.

[20:32] Cameron Adams: You don't get to do that.

[20:33] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[20:35] Cameron Adams: Yeah. So that's that's the stuff. And now what's crazy about my community now, the theater programs in the high schools are a plenty. The community theaters re-blossomed, but there was just it was just pretty limited when I was young. And so there wasn't a ton of opportunity. Now there's a ton of stuff. But when I was younger, it just didn't exist as much.

[20:54] Charlie Murphy: So casting directors out there, if you want a Broadway talent who is gonna do your show. Maybe someone who you wouldn't normally do your show. If you're willing to cast her against type, cast her in some weird things that she's not right for, Cameron is available.

[21:08] Cameron Adams: Am I willing to put that out there in the universe? I just always want to play weird people most of the time. It's like my favorite thing, but um But that's not against type. That feels right on for you. I mean, you know that I'm a weird one. Come on, that's fine. Let's be honest.

[21:20] Charlie Murphy: And then what about from the BA perspective? What did you feel any loss of like, you know, this is not like disseminar to the people who go to a real conservatory BFA, but did you feel I knew you talked about you did acting, singing, dancing training in New York. Did you do any like normal people like I don't know, Coursera or things where you're like, I want to take some normal people classes or I want to I did a Coursera course during the pandemic, a social psychology course that I loved.

[21:44] Cameron Adams: Heck yes. If I went back to school now, if I were like never were a performer and I went back to school, I'd either be um a therapist or a psychologist or something like that, or study some sort of something like that, or I would be a vet.

[21:59] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Okay, and then you're telling me a little bit, I just want to ask. So you you hosted, were there any other survival jobs that you loved doing? Any other just horror stories or good stories?

[22:08] Cameron Adams: Um, I lucked out, and what I got because of my history with the dance competitions, what I kind of got my foot into was when I was between shows or didn't have a job lined up or whatever. I had a few dance competitions that I could reach out to her and I would judge dance, and I still do that. I still judge it when I'm between stuff. And then all of a sudden, the teaching thing in my late 20s sort of started to happen, and I've been doing that for like the last 10 or so years, and I got better and better at that and like fell in love with it in a way that I sort of surprised me. And um, and I do a lot of that too. But no, I I lucked out and I didn't have to have too many crazy. I did weird gigs.

Like I did a lot of weird, like like I stood on the street in a white unitard with jockey underwear on top of the white unitard. A full, full long sleeve, white cotton unitard. Oh no. With jockey underwear and 3D glasses on, and I did yoga poses in front of Macy's for money one day. I did do that.

[23:06] Charlie Murphy: You're calling this a gig? This is not like a theater job. You're this is not like installation of theater.

[23:13] Cameron Adams: Like a commercial promotional weird.

[23:17] Charlie Murphy: Oh my gosh.

[23:18] Cameron Adams: I did a lot of that kind of stuff. Some of those jobs I remember, especially right out of school. Like you could any breakdown, you're like, oh my god, yes. And like it'll be commercial offers where it's like a hundred dollars to do, and I would like to of course I'll do his acting. And you're like, wait a second. Is this a fair thing to get this? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I made $2. And then if I I saw a couple people that I knew and I like hid behind a thing, so I didn't want to do anything.

[23:38] Charlie Murphy: Why do you need to hide? You're in white cotton and 3D glasses. I don't think anyone's gonna recognize you.

[23:43] Cameron Adams: Wait, I know those jockeys. Is that Cameron Adams?

[23:45] Charlie Murphy: I know that person.

[23:49] Charlie Murphy: All right. Well, we will take a brief break, pay some ads. We don't pay some ads, we get paid by the ads. We'll take a brief break, we'll run some ads, um, and on the back end, we'll talk a little bit about being an ensemble member. We'll talk about understudy and covering, and of course, we'll play a little game with Cameron.

[24:11] Charlie Murphy: Okay, we are back with Cameron Adams, and we're gonna talk a little bit about the ensemble, as we would say, the Franch would say. So you have made like a shining career. I mean, again, that breath, I could barely fit it. I have good lung capacity. I could barely fit all those shows into the breath. I just love to talking about like what do you think has made you successful as an ensemble member? And maybe just like what in general you think makes a great ensemble member.

[24:39] Cameron Adams: Um, I'm pretty game, you know. I'm pretty down to like try the thing and and be open to the weirdness if it's like a weird reading of something, or if somebody when I was younger, I was set I said yes to a lot of pre-production and and just to sort of figure it out. But um, you know, I think I I think I tried really hard to know who I was and what I could contribute and what I did well. Um I'm also one of those rare people that has been okay with being in the ensemble. Like I don't feel unfulfilled or I feel appreciated and I feel um like I'm still very much a part of it. Um of course there are challenging times where that is not always the case. Somebody, you know, but that's any profession anywhere in the world.

Like, you know, so um uh I think this because I'm pretty open to whatever. Um, and I think also because I can cover, I can understudy leads. And so I know I know that what I can contribute is which is getting harder now that I'm literally turning 40 this year, but like the the being able to dance in your ensemble and then cover, you know, like Elizabeth Stanley and Crybaby and like, you know, um people like that. Um so uh I think that that really helped me um continue to to book work.

[26:09] Cameron Adams: So interesting you talked about I didn't get to play all the things I'm wrong for, but somehow you also you clearly have a malleability to, I mean, that's so we'll talk about covering and and and under sighting, but the ability to cover lots of different things is so valuable to someone to go.

[26:24] Cameron Adams: I can pay one person and you can cover this and this and this. And you may not be perfect for any of the three, but you're good enough for all three is like such a valuable skill. Well, and that's part of it too, is like getting your ego sort of in check of going, okay, is that my most perfect part to understudy in the history of understudying? No. But I can do it and it's fine. And then you get those little shiny moments and nuggets where you do understudy a part. Um, and it feels so good and it feels really fun and it's natural and it's easy, and you get to sort of enjoy it. Um, and I think there's a nice challenge in there for me. Um, I know that I can get to a point where I'm like, okay, I'm ready to not do this same show every day.

So I love having the extra thing of um something else to work on and be conscious of and know that like they could call in and I have to go on or whatever. Now I didn't love swinging as much. I did swing and that wasn't for me, but I'm glad I did it. I'm really glad I did it. I have such an appreciation for swings and an understanding of what it is and how it all works. And um, and it's that's one of those things when you do it, it never leaves you. And so when the you know what kind of hits the fan, like it did in the winter with Omicron when everyone was like every man for himself was like, oh my god, what's happening? Um, you it was a real team sport, I like to say. You know, Broadway is a team sport.

And if you can't get on board with that, then it's not gonna work for you. But um, it's one of those things where like I click into that swing brain and I'm like, I can move the clothing rack stage left into wing one. I know I can do it. Let me do it. I'll do it while I sing the thing and push the thing, and like you go into those kind of places, and it's it's helpful.

[28:06] Charlie Murphy: Well, Cameron, you're giving us a nice little preview into what the game will be of it. It lives in you forever. We'll see. Oh Lord. Uh-oh. Um, but I love that you made a sports analogy because that's the uh it's the analogy I've always I've been kind of working on, and I don't know exactly I don't have it um complete yet, but I got 50% of an analogy of like the idea of a really great ensemble member being like a really great role player in basketball, of like knowing how to shine without the ball in your hands, and that actually sometimes the thing like I'm make fun of Russell Westbrook. We do it a lot on this podcast, we haven't done it in a couple episodes, so I have to, but like sometimes the need to think that you should have the ball is sometimes also ruins the this team game.

It's that if you're going, no, I want to make a joke here, right? Sometimes you gotta make sense, and sometimes you have to stand in the corner and be open and say, I'm I'm giving you the attention and I'm supporting you, and I'm enabling you to get a layup because of the gravity that I have, even though I'm not gonna touch the ball. You know, this is now getting way too advanced in the the sports of it all. But there is something Megan's into it, she goes, I followed all of that. Yeah, right. Um, but it there's something to that, right? And we know we see that on stage of like that person is just such a great, they're adding so much to this moment without necessarily pulling the focus or without necessarily, you know, they're not gonna be the thing you go.

You know who was amazing in the show was Cameron, even though there may be moments of that, but everyone in the ensemble everyone in the show goes, I know how much this person was pivotal to the show.

[29:29] Cameron Adams: Yeah, and you know, um, and then honestly, at this age where I am, um, and I try to be a little pickier about this kind of stuff too now. Um, but because I have been doing it in a while, because people do trust me, and um I work with a lot of the same directors and choreographers, or or I'm at a place where a lot of the people I'm working for now were people I was in shows with, you know, they've transitioned to the other side of the table. And so I get I do get rewarded with like a funny feature or a um interesting moment or like whatever. And um I take that and I take it as mine and I run with it, and it's really great. And um, you know, it's not for everyone, but like um I have been I can't believe I've been doing this for this long and made a career out of it, and um met my you know, future husband and met all these incredible friendships that I have and people in my life, like that is that's really special to me, you know.

So the sort of the the back end of the analogy is just how much value there is to somebody who has the humility. You talked about that being such a thing that you thought you were bringing to someone having that humility is so valuable to a show.

[30:39] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. But I want to, and again, only share what you want to share. But in terms of I imagine some of our younger um, especially, you know, maybe some of our students who who are now in Broadway shows, they're in an ensemble, and they might think, I love that I'm in the ensemble, but I want to do that thing where I go up the ladder, up the ladder, up the ladder. I guess was there a desire early on to go, okay, but I gotta be really conscious that I don't take another show that's an ensemble, because then I'm gonna get locked in, or you know, did you always think I'd be happy just to work my whole career or or was there a thought of uh three ensemble shows and then I'm doing my lead or whatever in terms of of the way you were thinking about your career?

[31:13] Cameron Adams: Um I've sort of gone back and forth with that. I mean, I'm to be totally candid and honest. I'm at a point now where I just can't continue to dance like this eight shows a week. I it doesn't feel good. Um I have to come home in ice, I roll out every day. I'm like, you know, it's um and I I sort of I did a couple of those shows where I didn't have to do that, and um, and now I'm at a show where I'm it's it's very physical and I'm and I'm still covering the leading lady and I'm still dancing like that, you know. So it just that sort of gets to a point where you're like, oh gosh. Um you know, I think when I was younger, I got in a place of like just couldn't believe that I was working as much as I was and doing it, and so I felt like I wanted to do the Broadway show instead of taking the regional gig where I played the lead or the supporting character that was right for me and going away for two months and then coming back and not having a job.

So I think there was like a little window there that I missed, to be totally honest. Um but it never really I still felt okay, you know, it wasn't like even now that I'm trying to do more TV film, which I've been doing more this year, I you know, I said, look, I don't need to be Emmy Award winning Cameron Adams. I'm happy to go do a scene on FBI and a scene on uh Law and Order and a blah blah blah blah blah. Um, but if something does present itself, I'm totally open. Um and I I am now sort of at a point where I'm when when Mrs. Doubtfire hopefully runs a long time and we get a nice long run out of it, but it but if it doesn't, I'm sort of at a point where I'm going to have to be a lot pickier and choosier.

And I did make that decision over the pandemic, you know, when those shows like Moulin Rouge call for an audition, it's just not I can't do that now. Can I physically do it? Sure. Does it feel good? No. And like for me, I love dance so much. I want to be smart enough to leave the party early enough before I get to a place where I resent the thing that has like fed me, literally and spiritually and all those things. And um, I don't want to do that. I don't want to get there.

[33:23] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And physically you you know, if you want to if you may say I wanted the ability to teach forever, it's like you don't want to have that injury where you go. And now my knee is so bad that I can never you know exactly and I've I've had some injuries but in the grand scheme of things nothing that has like really taken me out for super long periods of time and so I kind of because of taking care of myself also but but also accidents happen and crazy stuff happens and so I just you know I know I'm not done yet but that's why I've also worked so hard on like being able to be do the funny character part and cover the lady and do the thing and and um cover the lady and do the thing. You know but I I kind of wonder if back then you know the thing you said I I missed that window which I totally could be true and who knows we can't you can't go back in terms of like what if I made this decision instead of this decision.

But I also do think there may be something that was so valuable about you earnestly doing a good job at what you were doing as opposed to living in the the dissatisfaction of because like I just I mean especially in the in a cast you can smell it when somebody is like oh 100% okay but I'm doing that sound role but I really want to show you that I am funny enough to be this other thing. And you're like okay but it's that's fine but that's not what the show's about and it's actually not helping in this moment that you're yes you're very talented of course you are you just graduated from this school of course you're good. Like I have been that person who tries to be like don't you think I'm underused in this role that's not helpful to be you know leading with that place as opposed to going I'm really leading with what's best for the team. If I need to ride the bench for a little bit I'll do that you know.

[34:47] Cameron Adams: Yeah no I agree. I mean I do think that that's something that has because I see I've seen it too and now when I work with like younger performers who are just coming in either fresh out of school or they left school or like whatever the situation is, um, you can see when it's it's not exactly what they thought it was going to be. You know. And um, and the truth is, as you guys have discussed, and I'm and everybody, you know, who's done this can understand is it is hard, you know. It's not like when you're doing at this level, um it's just it's just a tricky thing, you know, especially when you're doing like commercial big Broadway show, commercial theater. It's it's a whole nother it's a whole nother ball game.

[35:35] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. So true. Um okay. We we hinted at this idea of undercover under studying versus covering versus swinging.

[35:42] Cameron Adams: Sure.

[35:42] Charlie Murphy: But maybe can just because we're using those three words, and I think some people might use them almost interchangeably. Can we just define that terminology of what is an understudy versus what is a cover versus what is a swing and how we maybe use that uh in the Broadway terminology of the yeah?

[35:54] Cameron Adams: Yeah. Um well for swinging, a swing is someone who is off stage and they understudy or cover, whichever one you want to use, the um ensemble characters. And sometimes, you know, like when I was a swing um originally on the hairspray tour, I also understudied Amber von Tussle or whatever. You know, there's you don't that doesn't mean you can't understudy when you're a swing. Oftentimes that's a great person to understudy because they're off stage, you know, but um there's not as much moving parts around, if need be. But um uh a cover, I guess I probably use that to interchangeably with understudy, but I guess that could sort of go with both things. You could also be someone who's in the ensemble who covers an another ensemble feature, you know.

There are differences sometimes in the ensemble, like Mrs. Doubtfire, I have this really ridiculous feature um in a big production number that happens in the show, and um I I talk, I do the majority of the talking, and it's like loud and ridiculous and obnoxious. And um, and our swings cover that but if need be if the show ran long enough or whatever somebody else in the ensemble could technically cover that as well if it was it built into their contract but um being an understudy or like a standby is a person who stands by offstage for a principal role. So they cover um or understudy um one or two or three people off stage but they're principal characters not ensemble characters.

[37:25] Charlie Murphy: Beautifully explained and so now and we're I'm you've already hinted I've already hinted we're gonna play a game about understudy good luck.

[37:30] Cameron Adams: Sure.

[37:31] Charlie Murphy: But what have you learned from the experience of understudy? So you've now done it for almost 20 years is that true I'm trying to do some math 20 over 22 22 years.

[37:39] Cameron Adams: Yeah 22 years.

[37:40] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. So what is that what have you learned how do you maybe approach it differently than you did when you first were um starting off and going oh my god here we go.

[37:47] Cameron Adams: Well um so differently um uh I was just terrified when I first started doing it but um uh you know I I think I've really lucked out and I've understudied women that have tended to either be my friends or become my friends like Elizabeth and um you know uh uh pretty much everyone I've ever I now understudy Jen Gambate's I've known Jen Gambate since I was 18 years old so you know we have a lot of history so that makes life really easy um or I've had the privilege of understudying people like Kelly O'Hara who is the nicest human being on the planet and is the type of person who started her career as an understudy and understands what that is and is helpful and um my biggest thing is I try to stay out of the way and do my do my homework.

You know, I just you keep your eyes and your ears open and you you really listen to all those little changes. And when Jerry Zaks goes up to Jen and says, you know, I think we need to change the tone of this scene. I want you to try it this way instead of this way. You pay attention to those little things, you write them down so that if I get thrown on, or and we've had not as much rehearsals prop as possible, I have as much possible information at my in my little notebook, or I I tend to be the person who I'm like old school and have the script, the old school like paper script, and I write it all in. I need to like upgrade and do all the digital stuff.

[39:20] Charlie Murphy: But no, you don't, you're doing it right is what I'm saying.

[39:22] Cameron Adams: I like it that way.

[39:26] Cameron Adams: Um sorry for the trees, but um, but you know, that for me just makes me feel at ease with it all and know knowing that like I have it, um like a a student of mine um that I have taught for a few years, she just went into Funny Girl as a swing. And she said, she's you know, very young, and this is her probably debut, and she goes, What do I with any advice on swinging? I was like, write everything down. I go, right when you go to the hair room, right when you whether you change into your wig before you change your costume, or if you go get your costume changed and then you go to the hair room. It's like just write it down. As like, even if it feels dumb, because I guarantee you, it will put you put yourself at ease to be like, I just have it all here and I don't even have to think about it, it's all written down.

So I try to do that with understudying. Um, and then I'm one of those people, I think it's because the dancer in me, I have to be on my feet and I have to do it. So, like, if you're not getting as much rehearsal because Omicron has happened, or like whatever, I gotta get up and even if it's in my second bedroom that I'm in right now, that's like our catch all room, and just humble brag second bedroom. We got you. It's fine. New York City's second bedroom. It only took me 20 years. Um Charlie Podcast from his second bedroom. I know. My daughter's room. I kick her out of it to be anyway. Second one though. Multi-purpose. But um, yeah, I like just have to get on my feet and I have to like say it and do it and do thing, or um my the my fellow understudy KJ Hippensteel who cover understudies Rob McClure in the show.

We get on FaceTime and we run lines, or we get into a corner of the theater and we just say the stuff out loud. And um so almost being overprepared. I love it. Because then it's because there's always gonna be a surprise because the door is not gonna open the way you thought the door opened because you've never gotten to touch it, or you've never gotten to run the quick change. Like, let that be the stuff that you're worried about, not the like text, music, all of that.

[41:30] Charlie Murphy: I I just have to point out you said the luck of having great relationships with all of your overstudies. Um, but I have to say, I can't imagine that's luck. Like I do think some of the stuff we were talking about of what makes such a good ensemble member, which makes such a good understudy, there often is an adversarial relationship between oh my gosh, could you please back off? Like, I'm trying to it's my role. Like I don't know, you're like, I get that you want to be friends, but whatever, you know, like the and I can certainly speak from the you know from my partner that that she you guys are like best friends. So like that's obviously worked out pretty well in that in that way. But but that like there is I don't know if it's something it's something that I would lack because I think I have an obvious hunger, you know, that it would be hard.

Like, I don't know if I'd be good at the poker face of like just here to just here to do a good job in case you go down or whatever, you know. Like, and that was really hard for me understudying. Um, but it's something that I think great understudies seem to be able to bring a sense of like I am actually just here to support the show if you happen to go down. Even though, of course, on some level you must have ambition of going. I want to step on for Kelly O'Hara, of course I do. I want to go play this part. Like, of course. I'm done, you know, and like I'm now at a point I've not knocked on wood or all the things. I haven't gone on yet at Doubtfire when everything sort of fell apart. I think almost every other understudy has gone on.

And um, I myself and the other girl who covers Jen, who's another friend of of Elizabeth's and mine, actually, who also understudied Elizabeth on another show. The two of us are sort of like a little bit of sweat, you know, because it the longer it goes, the harder it almost gets of like the nerves sort of filled up and whatever. But um, but yeah, of course, you know, I love getting to do that. The first time is always so terrifying, but like, like when I covered Kelly, that job ended up being the greatest job. A, it's the part I've understudied that I felt the most correct for ever. Uh-huh. Um, typewise, vocally, uh, it was comedy, it was like musical comedy, which I I feel like I love to do, and um uh and she happened to have all these concert dates because she's you know, fancy.

And so I got to do the role so many times I could do, and a lot of them were most of them were planned. And planned so you can get your family there. Yeah, my family got to see it, my friends got to see it. Um, and it was just that was nice. That was like a dream scenario for that year and a half that the show ran or whatever you a little over a year. Um, it's not always the case, you know.

[43:56] Cameron Adams: I mean, like, there's I I understudied a role, um, a very funny, sort of smaller supporting role at Zhiji. And like this is another crazy thing. And the show was pretty much right out the gate, we knew was not going well. And the costumes and the sets, everything were so expensive that I was technically the first cover for this part. But when she called out, I couldn't go on because I couldn't fit in the costumes, and they had decided in the budget that there wasn't enough money to make new costumes. And she's really tall, and I'm not, and um, it's like that happens too sometimes. You end up learning a role that you're she can't go on. She never got to go on. But you still have to learn it, right?

So that's the kind of generosity of spirit I'm talking about. Like, that's the kind of thing where I'd be like, well, I quit. I hate this job. I but like you're able to keep uh uh whatever the attitude and laugh about it as opposed to like it's a waste of my time and um, you know, I had I, to be honest, had the show run, I would have spoken up and said, Okay, if I'm covering this, you have to make me costumes I can fit in because I'm not gonna cover this out of the kindness of my heart. I don't make enough extra money to do that. Yeah, um, and I'd rather have my Thursday free if that's the case. But in this situation, it was like this show is not gonna run. It ran for three months. We knew it, you know.

So this was like we gotta do what we gotta do, kind of a thing, you know. But that happens, you know. And like I know at Shrek when they were replacing people, um, they the costumes were so expensive they had to replace people that could fit into the existing costumes. This is one of the hardest things, because we talk about type in a lot. We talk about a lot in different contexts, and and some of the ways I think that like the industry, I think, is trying to move toward a more healthy version uh outlook of of type. And certainly we talk about this generation will be the generation that demands this is how it should be and not the way that it was. And it's like then you run into something like that where it's a financial choice, which you know, the idea of literally putting someone in in a costume that you have to fit into, it's like now that's not a creative or whatever choice.

It's like it becomes a financial choice, and it is about we talk about body image, you talk about whatever, to be like, I don't fit into this other person's literal clothing. It's like how do how do we square that with our our sort of more liberal and open mo notions of type versus the reality of what walking into Shrek? Yeah, literally, I'm not tall enough and thin enough to fit into my costume. So I don't conform to American beauty standards enough to get this that you're like, great. I played nuns and self regents on stage notes.

[46:18] Charlie Murphy: Um can we talk a little bit about dance in general? So I you know, something Elizabeth mentioned that you're like, which is a very fancy thing that I wasn't quite aware of that you're often like kind of a go-to for pre-production that like a choreographer wants to play with stuff before rehearsal starts, they might reach out to you and be like, let's play with this. So, like, how how does that happen? How do you get to that level of obviously like we can see like technical dance skill is like something, and and I think a lot of our students know how to achieve that or can see that and measure that. But how do you, you know, become at that kind of pinnacle uh relationship with choreographers?

[47:00] Cameron Adams: Um, I think to start out, and this is good for a lot of younger dancers also, it's like take class, you know, go go take classes at um some of these big studios like Broadway Dance Center or steps that offer big open classes, and a lot of times the people teaching there are either currently choreographing Broadway shows or they're the associates of those people that are choreographing Broadway shows, and they will be choreographing Broadway shows in no time. Um also it's just gonna make you better the more class you take because you're just picking stuff up quicker and quicker and quicker. Um and I think you know, it's a recommendation thing. So a lot of times, like I'll get calls all the time now.

Hey, you've worked with such and such, what do you think about them? Like, do you think they'd be a good fit for this? Or do you, you know, do you think they would fit into this world or what how I work in the studio or whatever? Um, so I think that's how that started for me was like friends going, you should call Cameron, she's great at this kind of stuff, or she this is sort of what she does. That's her her niche. Um and um, and now like I said, I'm sort of at a place where I have a lot of friends doing it, and so um they'll they'll call now it's funny, it's like, do you want to do if you don't want to, it's okay, like it's it's too much or whatever, you know. I enjoy if I can do it, I like doing it because it's super creative.

[48:26] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[48:26] Cameron Adams: So that's the creative part of it because as you learn, if you do decide to do this and and go down this path and and you're doing big fancy Broadway shows, it's the same thing every day. And that's the point is that it's consistent. And um, so I like if I get up and going in a show and I know it's gonna be there for a minute, I say yes to the pre pro, I say yes to the readings, um, I teach the stuff, whatever, because that's the creative side of it, you know. Um it and when you are up and just doing eight shows a week, that's sort of hard to to play around with as as much.

[49:05] Charlie Murphy: It makes so much sense. It's like I I have flirted with the I'm I'm so tempted by the idea of writing, but the idea of writing just truly scare me. But what I love doing is like working with playwrights early with in a show, especially a friend, and being like, what about this? Can I like it's like you get to touch the the true creative, you know, of uh generation without necessarily having to be responsible for it? Because I'm still a little scared about like a white blank page and I have to do the whole the whole thing.

[49:28] Cameron Adams: Absolutely be able to go, I have a lot here. Let me get in there and do that. And yeah. I think and then that it's it's feeling out who you're with.

[49:36] Charlie Murphy: Like some choreographers, like you know, I've worked with Kathleen Marshall a bunch. You walk into a room for her, even if it's pre-production, she's done a lot of it, and she just wants to see it on you. Uh-huh. And ha and and will ask some questions about how it feels or whatever, but she more just wants to see it. Whereas there are other people like Josh Burgas, you know, who's a guy, uh, you know, we were in Hairspray together, and now I've worked for him as a choreographer multiple times, and like he's different. You get in, you start from scratch, you play together and you figure it out, and like he's way more open to you speaking up and saying, What about this? Or so there's like a little bit of that too. You have to kind of I think sometimes people aren't as great about reading the room of what that kind of dynamic and energy is.

[50:19] Cameron Adams: And uh well, it seems like that emotional intelligence is is both helpful in that and helpful.

[50:25] Charlie Murphy: I think it's what the one of the keys of being a good ensemble manager member is being emotionally intelligent of like what what what does this room need in this moment?

[50:32] Cameron Adams: It's it's not even necessarily what the play needs sometimes. Sometimes it's like, what does this cast need? How can I support the energy that needs to be put into the room right now? Maybe the elite is going through a tough moment and the energy in the room isn't amazing. It's like you set have those amazing people who go like they just did the right thing or said the came over and put their hand on the and you go, Oh, and it's better. The world feels like you know.

[50:51] Charlie Murphy: And you know what else I was gonna say?

[50:53] Cameron Adams: And this sort of goes back to what we were saying earlier. When you if you're open and yet saying yes to those things, um, like I know that I have this funny feature in Mrs. Doubtfire that I love and get to do every night because I did uh before we did, I did Hello Dolly with Jerry's axe before this, and I um did a bunch of pre-production for them, not just in the dance department, like scene work and stuff, and I played a bunch of different people and characters and read a bunch of different lines so they could make sure they were happy with the staging and and stuff like that. And I know that's why he was like, huh, because I didn't audition for that, you know, I just did the reading and he had me do it.

And um, I know he went, Oh, this would be funny for Cameron. I think this would be a good fit for her. So, like that, there's that too, you know. It's um it's and that's not why you always do it, obviously. It's not like you're like, if I do this, maybe I'll get that thing. But it is nice because people will go, huh? I didn’t think about that. That’s a great fit for her. We should think about that, you know.

[51:57] Charlie Murphy: So you talked about uh what you put into your body or maintaining your body for these eight shows a week. Um, I'm gonna call you the Lebron James of Broadway, and that you know, we're nearing 40, as is LeBron, but still unbelievably uh uh productive. Um, and you know, it is a different just to point out it is a whole nother level of athleticism compared to like these professional athletes often are made like they'll maybe work three nights a week or four nights a week, and they get a whole off season, right, to like recover and rest. And and a broadway performer who does eight shows a week and then 52 weeks a year is just an unbelievable toll on your body. But so I just love to hear like how how do you recover?

[52:35] Charlie Murphy: What do you do pre-show? What do you do post-show? You don't have to give us the whole secret sauce if anything's proprietary, but what does it look like in terms of keeping your body um able to do this show to the extent that it seems like it barely still is? Um, eight shows a week at 40 years old.

[52:50] Cameron Adams: Yeah, I um uh the warm-up is I have to warm up. Like I cannot, I'm not one of I've never been one of those dancers really. I mean, I could get away with it in my 20s, I guess, but never been one of those dancers that's like I can just go and kick my leg behind my head and be great. So I have to warm up my body, and um I have I'm a big believer in Pilates for um recovery and for maintenance for dancers because you're strengthening, but you're lengthening. Um I roll out every day. I'm like on that foam roller. It's hilarious. This house because Michael, my fiancé is, as Charlie knows, is a stage hand. So he's like pulling ropes. He's a carpenter and he's a flyman, so he's like pulling ropes. So his is like rolling out his whole upper body, and I'm just like rolling out my entire it's like a PT.

We could set up a PT studio. There's gotta be like a circuit sole thing where you can like one half is doing one while the other half's are in the other, and you're we've got cups, we've got therabands, you name it. Come on over. Anyway, you do cupping you you do you have those big red marks that the basketball players get? Full full blown cups. Oh my god, amazing on the eye on the legs. Um it's hilarious. It's like I guess this is this is romance, really, is what it is. Um just one half is cup for one, one half is cup for the other. Fantastic. Um, but you know, I I do I take I take care of myself. I used to, you know, be able to go out and like do the nightlife thing, and I don't really do much of that anymore.

I'll go have a drink with a friend if they see the show or whatever. But I come home and I'll have a glass of wine and I'll put my ice packs on. I have a really incredible ice pack collection. Um, I just I have to just take care of myself. So it is it's part of that's part of it, you know. It's just like with the voice, too. I mean, you're not gonna like go to some loud bar and then go sing your Broadway show the next day, even in the ensemble. So um, because nowadays ensembles are this big, they're teeny tiny. So, like, you know, sometimes you're the only one on the weird middle part, so you better sing out, Louise, you know, and um it's uh all that stuff, you know. Um, I like to eat, I'm a food person, so we cook a lot here and um try to cook somewhat healthy, but also enjoy our lives.

And and I'm one of those people I'd rather eat what I want to eat and go to the gym. But so we we're I'm diligent about that stuff, you know. Whereas when I was younger, um, I could be a little more loose about it all, but um it is that's that part of it is hard, I will say, you know, it's like you have to be kind of when you don't feel like getting to the theater as early as you need to, it's like pushing yourself to do that.

[55:28] Charlie Murphy: Yep, yeah. Constant, constant. Um we can cut this if you don't want to talk about this. So I'm just gonna say this. If you'd rather not speak public about this, just let me know. Great, sure. But I am curious about what the experience of being in your 22nd year now of doing this craft with this incredible accomplished resume. Like, I imagine you're likely one of, if not the most veteran of most casts that you walk into, right? From like a show design perspective. Uh like that is a resume that you know, you just don't see people who've done I didn't count, but what is it, 17 or whatever that it's like such a 13, whatever? It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. When you get into the teens.

Okay, but again, to make the sports analogy. So in in like basketball, in your 13th season or whatever, you get like a veteran's minimum, or you get like a pay raise, right? What has been your experience? Because you've been basically working. Everyone gets a Broadway minimum. If you're on the town board, you get a Broadway minimum, right? So you've been working at the same price. I guess what has your experience been like on that end of negotiating? And is that something that you ever see hope for changing? You know, if someone's in the show for 20 years that they could get some kind of, hey, can you pay me a little more? Can I get a little bump? Like, I mean, our MTCA coaches would, they were like, I need a raise.

It's been a year. It'sn't it been another. It's like people want, you know, if you're working in the same job and you keep doing excellent work, it's like, do you it yeah? So I throw that out there to you.

[56:44] Cameron Adams: It it it of course I don't want you to get in trouble, but yeah. It's it's frustrating because in any other profession, like you just said, um, you you if you stick around long enough, you make a little more money. Um with this, um, because jobs come and go essentially every single time you start at zero again, right? From from the ground up. And um, thankfully, our union there is a minimum, thank God. And it of course the minimum goes up every few years and and whatever, and there's negotiations for all of that with with the our union and the producers' union and all of those things. Um, but yeah, you know, I mean, I would be lying to you if there isn't occasionally that moment of like, I'm doing number Broadway show number 13, and someone is doing Broadway show number one, and we are making the exact same amount of money.

Maybe right out of school, but they may be 22. Sure. And well, just like I'm sure people felt about me at 17, you know. Um, I'm sure. I know they did. Um, I I get it. We're actually gonna bring them on right now. Here they are. They're in the waiting room and they're gonna tell you. This is what you get, kid. Um uh, you know, yeah. Working on Broadway, um, I will say this is financially great. So if you can if you can you can work on Broadway. It's just that that they're few and far between and they're hard to come by. I've been very fortunate. Um, and I would be lying if I didn't say there weren't jobs that I took because um I would rather just make that money, even though there was another opportunity that would have paid me less that maybe would have been more fulfilling.

There was have been a couple of those. Mm-hmm. Um, which is hard. But um I yeah, that I I won't lie, that is one of those things, like because negotiating wise for the ensemble, it is really hard. Um I can I usually try to like negotiate a little more if I go on for my understudy, which is possible than what's offered, um, things like that, because I've proven to be successful at that and you can trust me. So, but um those kinds of things are, you know, like we were joking, another friend of mine who's about my age and been doing it the same amount of times like even just like a massage once a week. Just like that would be awesome, but it's really really for whatever reason they like to make you think you're easily replaced.

Um and then uh because the truth is, as you know, because look at what you do for a living, there is always someone excited and ready to go. But the truth is you can't hire a 25 year old to play me in Mrs. Doubtfire. I I understudy a part that needs to be 40 years old and has three kids. So it's um and I'm still dancing really hard. But um, you know, I I'll tell you where it gets me. It gets me now more even than the money is uh time off for uh uh weddings or family events. Like that's where I really am a stickler nowadays, and I I've missed too much of that stuff, and I like refuse to do it again.

[1:00:07] Charlie Murphy: I love that. And and you know, it's so hard to like, you know, in some ways, like it's like the same thing when athletes would complain about I should be making triple this, but you're still making millions of dollars, right? It's not millions of dollars on Broadway, but but it's great money compared to other acting jobs. It's a it's actually livable wage, and it's right. So but but compared to some of these properties, when you you know, we we were talking about what Disney was Lion King was 1.7 billion dollars just from the musical or something. You know, some of these things where you go, okay, but then if I'm contributing to that and to that much, so then it the same way the owners of these sports teams have so much money, and you go, well, that's why it should be 40 million dollars a year if you're Lebron James or if you're Steph Curry, or if you're and and that's why some of these, it's like I don't know if you watched that, I'm sure you did the Michael Jordan documentary, and you hear Scottie Pippin and what and look at what happened.

You know, Scotty eventually gets resentful because that's right. You know he's making what, like a million dollars a year, which is like compared to what he was bringing to that franchise. So I mean, and who he was at that team, yeah. So it's stuff like that, you know. But I it hasn't bothered me too much. Um I'll tell you when I really noticed it more was when I started dating Michael, who is not an actor. I had I had primarily dated actors before and was with an actor for a long time. So it was this we were dealing with the same sort of things. So it was interesting to date someone who's um their side of things is so different, and they're just like, no, I just say no, because there aren't as many, like there's not 20 year olds going to use.

They don't believe that thing that says you're replaceable immediately, because he's not replaceable immediately. He's not, it's it's harder and it's like it's more specific. And also, nor are you, but it's just we all as actors drink the Kool-Aid to some extent.

[1:01:43] Cameron Adams: A hundred percent. Oh my god, I've learned that I'm totally replaceable, which to some extent at some place, of course you are. And it's like, yes, there is a supply and demand that is different than there would be for a stage hand, but also, you know, someone like you is just not is not instantly replaceable. And I I have a hard time, like I still have to tell myself that that's a tricky thing that I hope this next generation seemingly is sort of figuring out, but does sort of figure out which is that a little more confidence of like yes saying no, and um, so that things can sort of shift a little bit. And it's that mix of the confidence and the bravery you talked about at 17 that you had, but also the humility that's made you so successful in your career, right?

In some ways that I think produce and them take take advantage of the humility of Cameron Adams who goes, I'm trying here to make this show work, I'm here to make it happen. And that's to some extent becomes true financially too for other people.

[1:02:33] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, yeah, not to get too political. Before we get political, let's play a game, shall we?

[1:02:37] Cameron Adams: I'm ready.

[1:02:38] Charlie Murphy: This is one of my favorite games I've ever constructed. So, as you may know, we play a unique game with each of our artists based on their special careers or personalities, etc. This is a game sort of based on the all too real thing that happened during COVID, where sometimes people who had understudied roles many years ago or played roles many years ago were thrown into those roles. We had a coach for MDCA who like came back to do a role that she did five years ago because they needed people to do it, right? So this is called an understudies nightmare.

[1:03:06] Cameron Adams: Oh, geez.

[1:03:06] Charlie Murphy: What I'm gonna try to do. I'm gonna speak a line from a show that you have done and understudy. Your job is to see can you name the show? Can you name the character speaking? And then for true bonus points, can you give me the next line? What I'm gonna read are all cues for your lines. These are cues for lines that you had to say as an understudy, or maybe never had to say because you were never going on for the costumes. But these are lines that roles you've understudied, cues for things that you're gonna say. And I just want to be very clear, Cameron. This is hard, it's impossible. I keep being egged on by people that they enjoy that these games are hard. I keep asking, should I make them easier on people? And people say no. So I apologize if this game is really hard.

[1:03:50] Cameron Adams: I'm good with it, I promise. I'll tell you one of these shows I looked up and I had done about 20 years ago in high school, and I remembered not one word from that script. So I can't imagine that you're gonna remember this if I did not remember it at all either. Good luck.

[1:04:03] Charlie Murphy: Okay. Godspeed. Are you ready? So you're saying the line that I would have said, and then I have to say what's after it.

[1:04:09] Cameron Adams: I'm saying the cue.

[1:04:10] Charlie Murphy: I'm saying your cue, and you say your own line.

[1:04:11] Cameron Adams: Oh, and I say my own line. Oh, oh, oh, I see. Good luck.

[1:04:15] Charlie Murphy: Here we go. I'm never gonna get this.

[1:04:16] Cameron Adams: Of course.

[1:04:18] Charlie Murphy: I was kicked out of Harvard.

[1:04:20] Cameron Adams: Also Yale, Rutgers, and a few others.

[1:04:22] Charlie Murphy: I'm not book smart.

[1:04:24] Cameron Adams: Give me the show, give me the character.

[1:04:26] Charlie Murphy: I know it's how to succeed.

[1:04:28] Cameron Adams: I know that that's Finch.

[1:04:31] Charlie Murphy: No, right?

[1:04:33] Cameron Adams: Uh okay.

[1:04:34] Charlie Murphy: We're oh for one. This was nice work if you can get it.

[1:04:37] Cameron Adams: I was kicked out of Harvard off to Yale, Rutgers, and a few others. I'm not book smart. The next line is It's like the same family of show though.

[1:04:45] Charlie Murphy: Are you street smart?

[1:04:46] Cameron Adams: We're looking for are you stre You Street Smart?

[1:04:47] Charlie Murphy: Are you street smart?

[1:04:49] Cameron Adams: That was Billy.

[1:04:50] Charlie Murphy: Okay. You're doing great. You're doing great.

[1:04:53] Cameron Adams: It can only get harder.

[1:04:56] Charlie Murphy: Here we go. It's gonna get worse. It's not bad considering. I did want my name on the door, but I decided not to ask because there's no door.

[1:05:04] Cameron Adams: Um shoot.

[1:05:07] Charlie Murphy: Is that everyone?

[1:05:09] Cameron Adams: Cameron's face has broken out into a deep sweat.

[1:05:12] Charlie Murphy: It's blotchy. Maybe that one is.

[1:05:14] Cameron Adams: Say what can he say it one more time?

[1:05:18] Charlie Murphy: It's not bad considering. I did want my name on the door, but I decided not to ask because there's no door.

[1:05:24] Cameron Adams: Is that how to succeed?

[1:05:25] Charlie Murphy: It is how to succeed.

[1:05:27] Cameron Adams: Rose.

[1:05:27] Charlie Murphy: Okay, I understand Rosemary.

[1:05:29] Cameron Adams: Okay, so you're it's Rosemary.

[1:05:30] Charlie Murphy: Finch.

[1:05:31] Cameron Adams: That's Finch talking. Um talking about the door. I really I have no idea what she says after that.

[1:05:37] Charlie Murphy: Your line is it's beautiful. I can only stay a minute. I just wanted to tell you I had a good time the other night.

[1:05:43] Cameron Adams: I told you I literally went through the script to pick random lines. This is not easy. None of these are like cues for the show. Okay. Over two. It's only getting worse. The nightmare gets deeper. The nightmare gets deeper. Here we go. This is my special secret place. I've never brought anyone else here. I come to think and be alone with my isolated solitude by myself. These are so hard. This is my special secret place. I've never brought anyone else here. I come to think and be alone with my isolated solitude by myself. Like, I honestly don't I don't know if I've ever heard that line before in my life. I mean, I have, obviously, because I did this show. What? I mean, all of these probably could be access.

That's cry baby. Yeah, it's correct. That is crybaby. That is correct. That's they're at Turkey Point. That's crybaby. Um, I understand the Elizabeth Stanley in the room. It's in there. And um. Oh, I couldn't. I don't know what she says. I don't know. I think I understand your loneliness, Crybaby. I'm an orphan too. I think I understand Leah's Grab Baby. Sure, sure. And beautifully, this show, Allison, was also under cited by our own MTCA coach, Alison Spratt Pierce as well, who introduced me to Elizabeth. So there's a little fun fact. In fun fact all together. Okay, it's only getting much harder. You're actually like two for three on the shows here. You're doing great. Okay, but it's only getting much harder here.

It's a two-word line. This is so mean. Students, commends. Students, commends. Hairspray. Dodge ball. Yes. What's your line? Something about it. It's got the word you said in it. Yes. It's like eat rubber. Eat it. Eat the rubber fatty. We're giving her half a point for eat rubber fatty. I was Amber Von Story. Dodgeball Tracy is the line. Eat dodgeball tracy. Maybe you said eat dodgeball fatty or eat rubber fatty and worked out just. She said mean. She was mean. Oh, I just wanted to be honest. This was the same person who was talking about costumes and you know, bodies morphia earlier and was really worried about type. And here she is, eat rubber fatty. It's very interesting. But she said mean things.

Amber says mean things to Tracy. Holy moly. She sure does. It's rough. It's a rough show. Okay, you're doing great. You're really recovering with three for four here. Okay. Now that we're going to be able to do that. Tell them to play. Yeah, well, that's come on. That was gonna be that was the bonus points. Tell them to play to a wild rose. We want music while we dine. Tell them to play to a wild rose. We want music while we dine. I'm gonna give you a hint. This is said by an uh mapping the college edition podcast guest. Which is not much of a hint to you, I know. Is it Gigi? It is not Gigi. Is it Hello Dolly? It's Hello Dolly. Hello Dolly. Okay. Cornelius, hello dolly. Cornelius says that. Oh god, Ernestina, what did she say?

Something like I understood you have to be. She's like, can I order the chicken fingers or something like that? What does she say? She's terrible. Zero points for can I order the chicken fingers? The line is say this is a cafe, isn't it? Let's dance. Oh. Now, this is whatever I can find on the script online. So it wasn't even that long ago. Did it? It's the same as it's always been. Not that long ago. Here we go. If you'll just take time to read a little bit about the conservatory, I don't think you'll have to look further. It's on page. If you'll just take time. I'll give you a hint. This was not said to your character. It is the cue line, but was not said to your character. Just take care.

I'm gonna do a little bit of acting for you. It's gonna help, right? If you'll just take time to learn. No. If you'll just have time to read a little bit about the conservatory, I don't think you'll have to look further. It's on page. That was my best. Oh, I can't. I have no idea. It's a rough key line. Do you know the show? I don't know. No. This is the music man. A couple years ago. I told you it was gonna get harder. Okay, and I believe your line is Papa, the Wells Fargo wagon is just coming up from the depot. I asked me crazy shin. That was not nice. Not nice. I could have given you a little do do do, and that would have helped uh a little bit. Okay, Cameron, you've done wonderfully with the game.

What was the experience of playing the Under Studies nightmare? Was it did you feel bitter in your throat? Did you feel the adrenaline? Well, I felt like I would, you know, those are those anxiety dreams you have, like where you, or like I'll have the ones where I have an anxiety dream about a show that I did forever ago, and they call me and I have to go on, but it's for a part I didn't even understudy. They're like, just go. Actually, when we did that Crybaby concert, Carly Gibson couldn't be there. And so I sang Carly Gibson's part, didn't cover that part, never understudied it, never, but we just did it, you know, and it was fine. But like, um, that's like a nightmare, the recurring nightmare that I'll know.

That's true, a nightmare. I really love there's at least one or two moments where like you had nothing, and then it was there, like it was somewhere in you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard that before. It's hard to do that. Some of them all sound so similar, like they could all be like a part of the same show. When you said how to succeed, I was like, Yeah, this is very similar. You're not wrong. It's the tone. Hey, yeah, right. Um, okay. Uh well, just a couple questions in wrapping up. I'd love to just hear a little because you you've done so much teaching. What have you learned from the experience of teaching? What do you feel like that has added to your your bag as an artist? Um, I tell you what, I never thought I would find such joy in it.

I don't think I thought that much about it. I think I thought, okay, well, this is great. I can like make extra money and still do the thing that I love and you know, share some knowledge and whatever. And now I just like I love it, and I um I especially love teaching students that are like late high school, early college, um, or in college. I find that to be really exciting because you just see it click, you see the wheels like going, and it just clicks and they get it, and it's so awesome. And I just talk about a full circle moment. I just went to go see this last revival of the music, the music man that's happening right now with Hugh and Sutton. You weren't paying much attention to it, obviously, but yeah, it's fine.

I know I was like, oh geez, Louise. And um, that's still there. Um, there's still a Wells Fargo wagon, turns out. Um, but two of my students are in the show, and one of them, um, who's named Cammy, by the way, which is hilarious, one of them um, I like coached her on her Zenita sides, and like we talked about it and sort of went through it, and they're both in the show and shining on the stage and like deserve to be there and fit in beautifully and are just a part of it, you know. And I'm kidding that I just like wept through the entire thing. Partially because that show means a lot to me and I love it, and it will always be special to me, but also because I was watching them up there, like it's just it's just really rewarding in a way, it's sort of almost selfish.

It's like so rewarding in a way that I didn't um I didn't expect. Um, my last question for you if you could now give a piece to a young 17-year-old Cameron Adams or Cammy Adams, what would that advise be? Um I always say this just be open, like just be open to if it doesn't look the way that you necessarily thought in your mind, because I think so many people that get into this industry are like, and it's gonna be like this, and I'm gonna do this, and it's gonna look like that, and then I'm gonna go there, and then I'm and then there's like constant disappointment because there's one thing that's we all know about jumping into this industry, and like no matter which department you're in, really, is uncertainty and change, and um, and just because you think it should be one way, it doesn't mean that's the way it's gonna be.

And um if you, you know, see yourself as one type, be open to the fact that others might see you another way and and it embrace it and lean into it. Um unless it doesn't make you feel comfortable and unless it doesn't make you feel good, you know. But like I I don't know, I just think being open to what sort of presents itself, even if it looks a little different than you thought. I love it. That is great advice. Um anything we need to plug. We talked about they can check you out on Broadway on Demand. That's that ensemble documentary. Yeah, that ensemble documentary, um, they can uh they can come see you and Mrs. Doubtfire for sure. Come see Mrs. Doubtfire. And we need to cast you in we're gonna cast you as like an old um out of type character or something.

Someone's gonna do that for you where they're gonna cast you something that's fully oh yeah, we're ready for it. If it directors out there listening, let's make this happen for Kim. I love doing weird stuff. Unless somebody wants to do sweet charity and then I just want to play charity. So you're complicated people. We are complicated people. Um Cameron, thanks so much for the time today. It was such a joy. Thank you for having me.

[1:14:54] Charlie Murphy: I hope you enjoyed hanging out with Cameron as much as I did. She is such a fantastic human being, warm and open and such an easy sense of humor. I also thought you brought like a really great perspective, and it's one I've been wanting to have on the show for a while now. So yay. Um as far as a Charlie takeaway, um, I just wanted to touch briefly on an interesting conversation Cameron brought up about windows closing. Um and she brought this up in the context of like maybe I missed this window specifically to make the jump from an ensemble member to a lead. But then I also thought she so beautifully said, as advice, try to stay open to what your career can be. And I can't say that I have anything really to add in terms of advice of like what to do.

But I do think, at least as I see it, those things are in some way directly related to each other. We flirted with this question a little bit in Bryce's episode with the kind of goals we can set for ourselves. Like maybe it's a yearly goal or a big career milestone. By this age, I have to be this, or I'll give myself 10 years before I have this, or all those kind of things. And I'm just fascinated by how different people choose to approach this. One person's humility in staying truly open to where their career takes them leads to a really fascinating path in a career and totally lets you see how someone like Cameron has shot up the ranks to be the person to do ensemble work or to do pre-production work we're talking about.

But another person's hard and fast goal setting and vision boarding and secreting for themselves could be what pushes them and sustains them throughout the difficulty of navigating the waters of this turbulent career. Obviously, someone like Cameron also has incredible drive, right? You hear about what she's physically done for her body and the classes she takes and how she's, you know, been able to maintain in this incredibly difficult business. But somehow for her, that is motivated from a place of gratitude and humility and openness, and I'm happy to be here, I'm ready to work, right? That kind of spirit. Where some people, I think it seems, need more of a taskmaster to push them, need more of that negative reinforcement to push them to further levels.

Again, I don't really have any universal advice here. But I do think at the end of the day, there has to be some amount of both elements involved to different degrees for different people. So some part of you has to be willing to kind of let go and let God with the humility to acknowledge your lack of control in this career, which is just the reality. As an actor, you're never gonna have full control of your career. And some part of you has to be able to steer the ship of your own career in choosing what you do and don't do enough to keep you on the course to keep getting the things that you want. If the goal is to move toward a certain thing, if and if it's about progressing your career. As you hear right now, even camera was talking about her increased level of pickiness with age in terms of what her body can do and not do.

I think, like so many things, knowing yourself and what that balance wants to be is maybe the key. Well, if you enjoyed this episode and found it key for you, please hit that follow button. We also would love it if you give us that rating and that review. If I if I you guys actually do it, then I don't have to say it at the top of these episodes. Sometimes I say at the bottom, sometimes I say at the top, but if you do it, then I don't have to keep saying it at the top, you know. Um, I suggest five stars if you love to wear jockeys on the outside, and an ironic five stars, if you don't understand quite what that could be promoting. You can also reach out to us with questions for the pod at mailbag at mapping the college edition or hit me and Megan directly.

I'm at Charmer7. She's at Megan Marie at 2014. If you're interested in working with MDCA for help with your individual prep for your college edition journey, please check us out at mtca.nyc and follow us on all the socials meads. Two my young artists out there mapping their journeys. Don't eat rubber, whatever Amber tells you. You're beautiful just how you are. We'll see you next week.