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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition. I am your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Cara Rose DiPietro on the podcast. For our newer listeners in these artist episodes, we aim to explore the paths to success that artists are forging for themselves, and to try to tease out how their theatrical training helped them to blaze their trails.

[0:36] And for our audio listeners, nothing will have changed that much. But for our video listeners, our video viewers, welcome. You may have known for a while that you've had this option to watch our interviews on YouTube. And if you didn't know that, now you know. But as of today, we are now trying to release the entire episode via video when possible. This means you'll get to see my beautiful face on these intros and our takeaways. But also, I believe for our Apple Podcasts and Spotify listeners, and probably some other podcast platforms as well, you're going to have access to the video automatically. So I'm saying all this assuming that it worked smoothly on our upload and everything technically went according to plan. But I believe you can essentially just click on the episode itself and you'll be able to see this via video. It worked for me on Apple Podcasts, so I'm hoping it will work for all of you.

[1:24] Now, I encourage all of you sane humans out there who prefer audio only to please do listen to the audio only. Who's got the time or the inclination to stare at my face while I talk to you? That's crazy behavior. I would always rather a phone call than a Zoom call. That's me personally. But of course, some people do seem to prefer it. They like seeing their interviews on video. So we're going to try to keep giving the people what they want. But no, for myself, I definitely do prefer my podcast to be in my pocket and in my headphones while I'm working out, doing the dishes, driving, whatever it is. So please don't injure yourself while doing any of those things and trying to stare at my static face. Let's hope that works out well for all of you.

[2:06] Okay, for my students out there, for our juniors and younger, I hope you're all scheduled for our Junior Intensive coming up next month. We're really excited for that. But for our seniors, this is your month. Here we are. As this episode releases, we are coming up on New York City Unified this weekend. I'm excited to see many of you at our kickoff meeting and in the green room. You might even get to meet my daughter if we're graced with a cameo, as we have been in years past. But I will say, I think a ton of this episode content is going to be really relevant to you during this time of year. So if you're someone who maybe pauses an episode, you don't listen to all of them, this might be a great one for you to listen to this month.

[2:36] I always think of January as kind of a month of wellness in a big way, both in terms of trying to kind of avoid sickness, but also in terms of how do we bring a healthy body into the room physically, vocally, psychologically. And we'll talk about that a lot in this week's episode, as well as in an upcoming episode that I'm really excited about, which will also be released during our audition season. But I gave you all a bit of homework on this from last week's episode. That was our episode with NYU. For those who don't listen to all your episodes, that's okay. But I gave you this bit of homework to try to come up with a prep strategy that addresses what you need from a psychological perspective.

I hope you did that. And if you didn't, there's still time, but please do put some real thought into it. What do you need to be fully alive and available in the room? I'll talk about this a bit more in the takeaway after you hear Cara and me discuss it, but please don't neglect that psychological part of it.

[3:29] For those of you who are attending New York City, Chicago, and LA Unified, you will get MTCA warm-ups each morning that will address all three of these areas of the physical, the vocal, and the psychological. But hopefully those MTCA warm-ups are not the entirety of your plan, right? What are you doing right outside the room before it's your turn to go? Do you have music that you love? Do you have a mantra you recite? Do you have a picture that you look at in your audition book that brings you to your happy place? Just please don't have the answer be anxiously scrolling social media right before you walk in the room. I beg of you. We'll talk about that a bit in this episode. And then also, what are you doing inside the room before you start your pieces?

How do you set yourself up for success as much as possible from a mental perspective so that you can have that lived-in, active version of your pieces, as opposed to feeling like you're just playing the tape on something you recorded yesterday in the room or that you've been recording for the past year? You know, this stuff is hard, but it's critically important to your success. And I hope you enjoy all the ways that Cara and I discuss it in this week's interview.

[4:25] So without further ado, here's Cara Rose DiPietro. Well, we are so excited to be joined by Cara Rose DiPietro. Cara is a graduate of Elon University, graduated just a few short years ago in 2021, making me feel old. Already she's been on television in Elsbeth as a co-star and worked at theaters like Arena Stage, Connecticut Stage Company, New London Barn Playhouse, as well as a number of cool workshops that we found on social media, but that have not made your way to your website. So Cara, that's your first note of the podcast. Get them on the website. Whatever you've done, get it on the website. Welcome on the pod. How are you doing today?

[5:06] Cara Rose DiPietro: I'm good. Thanks for having me.

[5:12] Charlie Murphy: We're so excited to have you. For a number of reasons, some of which we were just talking about in our pre-show, but, you know, I have a recurring pledge to have young people on the pod as I only get older and older. And, you know, as fun as it is to hear about Jessie Mueller or Andrew Rannells or whatever and how they did their college experience, you know, they went to school in a very different environment than you did, both in terms of what the process was and the business that they were entering into. So not only for your youth, but also I think really cool for, you know, we've had a number of young people on now, but most of them have ended up being MTCA alumni, like we had Helen Chen on, who's doing great right now, go Helen, Talia Suskauer, et cetera.

But I think really helpful to have some non-MTCA-ers on to talk about your process and how you may have navigated differently. So I'm excited to do all of that. And that's all before we get into some of the specifics in terms of your areas of expertise, like mental health advocacy. We'll talk about some of your social media influencing, fashion. We know that people want me to talk about fashion. This is what they've always wanted. So I can't wait. So we're going to see where the conversation goes. But for the first half, I do really want to take you through the college process, especially into your early career, where we are now from that large scale perspective, and then maybe get into some of those specifics.

So before I do that, before we get into the college journey, can you give me a little prologue on you? Give me like a 60-second catch up of like getting you to 16 years old. You're growing up where, how do you discover theater, et cetera?

[6:24] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. So both of my parents were actually performers. Oh no. Okay. I know. So they studied in college. Basically they had done it their whole lives and they wanted to do other things, but they still loved it. And so they still wanted to study in college. So they both got dual degrees. They studied theater. My mom went on to be a teacher. My dad went on to study law, but they met in the theater program at their college. They ended up getting married. I'm having my brother and I, and so we were raised like on cast albums, like you're going to be in Charlie Brown and Big River and Godspell and Joseph and all that kind of stuff. And so from a very, very young age, my brother and I were just exposed to it.

And my mom was from New Jersey. And so from a young age, we would go to stay with my grandparents and we would go into the city and we would get to see the original Broadway cast of Beauty and the Beast, like things like that, that were so, we had no idea how lucky we were at the time. And so from such a young age, I was so exposed to it. And I took my first dance class when I was three and it is literally all I've ever done. It is the only thing like from that moment on. And I was, I was so fortunate as well to have two parents that knew that they saw it and they supported it.

[7:38] Charlie Murphy: Oh, Cara, you're really freaking me out here because my three-year-old, I have a three-year-old daughter and she's literally on Thursday taking her first dance class. And I wonder if I'm setting her on a slope that is unrecoverable from she's two parents. Oh, disaster. Get ready.

[7:53] All right. So just get me forward from three to 16 or 17, or whenever you really first started thinking about the college process, you know, I'd love to hear sort of what was your approach to this? You know, if you knew what you were looking for in a school, like if you had a mission statement of I'm hoping for a school like this, I'd love to hear that. And then just talk me through, like, how did you end up approaching it with parents? Of course, you were knowledgeable, but, you know, you talk about it in your TED talk. We'll talk about this. Just, it is such a daunting process. It's why NFCCA exists. Like, how was that experience of what you were looking for in terms of the college process?

[8:21] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, as you very well know. So I actually worked with a coaching company in Boston where I'm from. No, there's not allowed to be other coaching companies. No, keep going. And so I auditioned for 17 schools. And the way that I kind of approached it is I tried to be very intentional about not falling in love with one school because I knew that that was a surefire way to have my heart broken. So I had like my, I had seven reach schools. I had seven schools. And I was like, if I could get into any of these schools, cool. And I'm going to try really, really hard to not fall in love with any of them. And if I get into any of them, great. If I don't, okay, I will look at other ones and hopefully I will get into other ones.

And we will go from there and figure it out. And I was fortunate that I got into two of those schools and I decided between those schools and they just so happened to be the ones that I went to visit. And I was like, well, shit.

[9:22] Charlie Murphy: And what were the two, if you don't mind me sharing?

[9:26] Cara Rose DiPietro: Elon is where you ended up going. Elon and BoCo were the two schools, which could not be any more different schools. Like when you think I'm from Massachusetts and like, when you just think about those two schools as a whole, they could not be more different. Location, how much liberal arts there is.

[9:38] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, for sure. Like size, all of it. I love that we say that though. Of course, like that's true for only people who would listen to this podcast. They'd be like, oh, I totally agree. From any layman, they'd be like, those are both the same. Like a little tiny, like I talk about something like, oh, the difference between an NYU and a BoCo, it's going to be enormous. It's like, well, but also not that enormous in the large scale thing. But yeah, I know what you mean.

[10:01] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. What made you end up going with Elon as opposed to BoCo?

[10:06] Cara Rose DiPietro: Honestly, so Elon was the last school I auditioned for, my 17th audition. And I, to this day, still like would gripe because my entire, I would say half of my class auditioned early and got in early and it was my last audition. And so I was like, oh, so bitter the whole time. Because everyone else got to cancel all their other auditions. But I just remember walking onto that campus. And a big thing with me too, was I, when I was younger, I mean, even so now, was so competitive with myself. It was really important to me that I went somewhere that wouldn't foster a culture that would make me feel like I was pitting myself against others, and that would make it feel like it was pitting me against my peers.

And it was something about Elon that made me feel like I was exactly who I was. Like it was, it was one of those gut feelings, like when you leave somewhere and you were, I was like, it was literally kind of what I just said, I was like, well, shit, that is, this is the school I have to go to. I just knew it in my gut. And so, which was so hard, because I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is, I can't, I can't, I can't fall in love with this school. But I just, I knew in my gut that that was, that was the place for me. I was like, this place values me as a human first. I knew that. And that was really important for me.

[11:30] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, and we'll definitely have a couple questions about competitiveness later. So I'll try to save some of those. But did it feel like maybe BoCo, because of the size, would feel like maybe it was going to encourage some of that intra-class competitiveness, because it was just bigger? Because you're like, now I'm going to have more classmates to compete with?

[11:39] Cara Rose DiPietro: Sure. I think there also was kind of this added aspect of like, well, at BoCo, my whole life would be this, my whole world, whereas at Elon, I would have to get a liberal arts education, I would have to take French, I would have, and the cool thing about getting a music theater degree at Elon, it's one of the only programs where you can study abroad. And it doesn't like have to be a theater study abroad, like, because of the way that they have like a January semester, it's a, for some reason, it is one of those schools that really allows you to kind of really have a college experience if you want to. And so I was, and at the time, I think about it now. And I'm like, gosh, that's such an important thing for me now in my adult life.

But that was another really important thing. I was like, well, if I go to BoCo, it'll be my whole world. And when theater is my whole world and my whole life, it tends to be all consuming. And then that then it gets extremely competitive. And I get in my own head. And it's not that I feel that competitiveness with other people, I feel it with myself and project it onto others. It's a me thing. Whereas at Elon, I could have that part of my life. Yeah. And I could also have the other parts. And I would have to remove myself from it. So I would have to have that balance, which I like.

[13:07] Charlie Murphy: So well said. And I love that you're already giving us some Elon specifics. I have a couple questions about that in a second, but I'd love to talk about, you know, you talked about your TED talk and I encourage anyone who wants to view it. You can, I don't know, go to Cara's social media is probably the easiest way or Google it. But it's a great like 15 minutes TED talk. And we'll talk about, it's about sort of your mental health and your eating disorder that you struggled with and maybe still struggle with. Timing wise, was that already happening for you as you were approaching the college addition process or did you discover, so you knew by 16, 17, this is something I'm struggling with?

[13:34] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. What was, I just love to hear, like, what was the relationship with your parents in kind of supporting you going into this industry, knowing that you have this diagnosis? It was fascinating. I mean, it's very fascinating, especially because I, I mean, it's something that I have struggled with for more than half of my life. And when I really, when we really like kind of addressed it head on.

[14:02] Cara Rose DiPietro: Embracing imperfection and reframing confidence.

[15:15] Cara Rose DiPietro: So I didn't have control over my choices, what I was doing, which made sense at the time, and then I got to college, and then I was like, oh, all of this is mine. New ballgame. So when I think in hindsight, I'm like, oh, maybe we should have set, maybe I should have set some things up in hindsight to kind of prepare me for this.

[15:37] Charlie Murphy: Of course. Um, but like I can't imagine how difficult that must have been like kind of my mom driving away and being like, I can't do anything because at that point it truly is it's like this is the first step in your life you were the only one that can do this for yourself, especially in these collegiate programs which at that time to like we weren't having these discussions.

[16:01] Cara Rose DiPietro: So, the culture of these kind of things were exactly things that we were aware of and talking about. So, they didn't even really know what I was walking into and neither did I, really.

[16:12] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, and I mean I talk about you like you're so young but I do think even three or four years later, some of those conversations would have been different. Some of the conversations we had on the podcast of professors talking about mental health and I'm like, I knew you six years ago you weren't talking this way you weren't that wasn't an understanding that you had or that you know wasn't in the public consciousness.

[16:29] Cara Rose DiPietro: It's so interesting, you know, I love that idea of a transition we talked about that a lot. I think of that more from post college into professional life of like so much structure from high school, often through college when it's a BFA program because there's so much structure to that. And then you wake up in the void and go what do I do with my days and I guess I'll work out in the morning what's next wait for addition to come in like that can be a really hard, you know, transition, but of course in college to especially where you had a liberal and you're all alone for the first time far from home.

[16:59] Charlie Murphy: I can happen in the college world too. But I guess I kind of wonder, you know, and maybe I don't know what you know of what your parents experience was but, you know, knowing the fact that they do know what this industry can be like to me it would feel a little bit like, you know, if I know enough about football now like if my kids prone to concussions I'm like, it would be really hard to let my kid play football like was, was there ever a conversation where you said I want to do this and your parents were like, are you sure that you're, this is the right profession for you to go into or, you know, that knowing that this was something that was going to struggle, or was that it was more about let's manage how we do that not like if we do it.

[17:32] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah, I was always managed how are we going to do it. It was always like how. And I think because they saw that in me. I think also, and this is such a strange thing to say like, I think, specifically my mom and my dad always saw like the person that I am today in the work that I do today in me from a very young age in the things that I did like I think that they just saw that kind of person in me.

[17:58] Charlie Murphy: And I think that that was always kind of in their mind even if it wasn't in mind and so I think that was always kind of their thought process it was like okay how do we manage this. Instead of like, is this the right thing.

[18:11] Cara Rose DiPietro: They also just like they believed in me so hard, and what I, you know, had to offer that they were like, it's not a question of like, if it's a question of how that's beautiful.

[18:22] Charlie Murphy: I mean, I love that and I love it for your parents. I asked it really because it's a question, our parents often ask a version of like I want to support my child. I know how hard this industry is. And then often, it'll be some reason and not specifically this mental health issue but it could be.

[18:36] Cara Rose DiPietro: I just know they're very, they have a lot of anxiety or they have a lot of, you know, and they go, I know this is a profession that would be hard for people with anxiety or people, she doesn't do well with rejection. I know this is a profession full of projections like so that instinct to sort of protect our kid, but not wanting to rob them of their potential dreams and their passions and I know that's a conversation parents often struggle with.

[18:55] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, okay, but let's get to Elon so you started giving me some of those specifics. You know, was it then it was the dream as you, you fell in love visiting was did it live up to those dreams, let's maybe talk about, were there areas where you felt like oh here's where it was even beyond what I expected any areas where you felt like, oh, I expected to be this and this was harder than I thought.

[19:13] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah, I mean I loved my class, we always joke that we like didn't realize how good we had it until, like, we, the classes below us came in and we like really looked around like we were so fortunate. We just generally really didn't have any problems in our class. And then like when other classes would have problems that we were like, oh, we never don't like we just genuinely we were so fortunate that we had so many kind, and the joke was we would always say we are so competitive with ourselves that we really weren't competitive with each other.

[19:48] Charlie Murphy: And we were always so supportive of one another. And even when we did like have our tips like in freshman showcase when we were all just like absolutely crazy and sleep deprived and nuts like I remember like coming back sophomore year, and it's been like, no wonder we all got in a fight like you're crazy like, um, so that was so wonderful and like that surpassed my wildest dreams.

[20:10] Cara Rose DiPietro: Something that also I really loved about Elon that one of the big reasons I went to Elon was because of how they structured their senior showcase. And the way that that happens is that they bring instead of like going to New York and doing something they bring casting directors and agents to you.

[20:28] Charlie Murphy: And of course, ours looked a little different because I was a 2021 senior and that was the post during kind of COVID year.

[20:37] Cara Rose DiPietro: Maybe the worst of COVID that feels like the 2020s we didn't quite know what it was but 2021 was like the height of the business. But I mean, regardless, it, we figured it out and it still worked out well for us. But that was...

[20:50] Charlie Murphy: Did you end up getting an agent from showcase?

[20:51] Cara Rose DiPietro: We were, we were all really concerned about how it was going to work. And to be so honest, it, the results yielded exactly the same as they did every other year. And it was actually because it was structured in a different way. It was a bit more in our favor. It was just easier because of the way it typically was structured.

[21:10] Charlie Murphy: So honestly, I always talk about my senior year, like the bar was here. So when it was here, we were great.

[21:17] Cara Rose DiPietro: And so all things considered, like things worked out pretty well. We figured it out. We threw spaghetti at the wall and pretty much it always stuck. But that was, that absolutely lived up to my expectations. There was so much opportunity to make things and create, which I really loved.

[21:36] Cara Rose DiPietro: And a big thing that Elon encouraged and would invite people to come do was summer stock and summer work. I worked with the exception of obviously COVID summer, which I was going to work and then COVID happened and none of us worked.

[21:54] Cara Rose DiPietro: Was like I had work lined up every single summer I was at Elon for summer stock work, which means I graduated with a resume and professional habits that have served me throughout my entire career.

[22:05] Charlie Murphy: Like post-grad and beyond.

[22:09] Cara Rose DiPietro: How much beyond is there? Post-grad and beyond? How many more beyonds? Beyond is like tomorrow now. Get me that much beyond.

[22:17] Cara Rose DiPietro: But that has been so helpful and Elon really fosters that in the sense of like they would fly casting directors down to audition all of their students. So that was something that I didn't anticipate and I loved.

[22:27] Charlie Murphy: Yep, I love it. Well, and I want to talk a little bit more about that idea of competitiveness. I love that you described Elon as maybe less competitive than some other places in terms of fostering that environment.

[22:38] Cara Rose DiPietro: I know something you talked about in your TED talk, though, of like, hey, this business at least and some of your experience at school still ended up feeling competitive. What does that mean for you? I guess maybe for the actor, for the non-actor parents and then, you know, sort of layman going, what does it mean by this is a competitive business?

[22:54] Cara Rose DiPietro: Like what does that word mean to you when you use it?

[22:57] Cara Rose DiPietro: So I know for me, something that I am constantly having to tell myself, I have to work on it once a week at least, is somebody else's success is not my failure. And so that is how like competitiveness also like often fosters it's like and rears its head in me.

[23:16] Cara Rose DiPietro: I feel like I can kind of show up in different ways. You know, I know some people struggle in college with universities and professors pitting students against one another. And like I never experienced that at Elon. I never really saw it.

[23:29] Cara Rose DiPietro: And like that was my own experience and I could have a totally different experience than someone else and I can't speak to another person's. That's never how it showed up for me.

[23:35] Cara Rose DiPietro: But when I think about competitiveness, I think about looking at all the people around me and thinking, why am I not doing what that person is doing? Why are they doing this? Why am I not doing that? Why is that person working harder than me? I'm not working hard enough. I have to be doing this. I have to be doing that. It's such an internal thing.

[24:13] Cara Rose DiPietro: And I feel like that competitiveness fosters this culture of like this hustle and this grind that is just this like cycle and cycle and cycle of us just like feeling this incessant need to prove ourselves to ourselves and everyone around us that we're doing enough.

[24:26] Charlie Murphy: And so that's kind of what I think of, which is such a kind of a weird take, because competitiveness often feels like a thing that relies on other people. But I think it just comes from us.

[24:31] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah, no, it's well said. And I do think it's one of those words that different people hear differently with different connotations.

[24:37] Charlie Murphy: I mean, we certainly I'll use that word sometimes negatively if I were to describe a school as it was a competitive environment, that might sound like a negative thing.

[24:44] Cara Rose DiPietro: Though when we label our tiers as all back in the day, 20 years ago, when we were labeling the tiers of different schools, we call the most competitive and competitive. Part of the reason to sort of help parents understand this is such a competitive business when you're talking about admission rates and stuff like that.

[24:50] Charlie Murphy: But then, of course, we wouldn't want to say this is a competitive school in a way of saying we wouldn't want people to compete with each other.

[24:56] Cara Rose DiPietro: But and then on the flip side, it's like, to some extent, you do have to find that drive for yourself of what does motivate you and push you forward.

[25:03] Charlie Murphy: So the idea of competing with yourself, I think in life, we all have to find what gets you up out of bed and gets you going, sitting at your chair or going to the gym or whatever the thing is that you're going to need to be doing for yourself.

[25:15] Cara Rose DiPietro: There's an element of competition, but it sounds like maybe inherent in that there for you and I think not alone for you. There's an element of compare and despair that sort of sneaks into the idea of this is a competitive environment, meaning my motivation is coming from outside as opposed to inside.

[25:30] Cara Rose DiPietro: Absolutely.

[25:31] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely.

[25:32] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah.

[25:33] Charlie Murphy: And do you want to talk a little bit?

[25:34] Cara Rose DiPietro: I know we're going to go into in a second, but some of your anorexia came back.

[25:38] Cara Rose DiPietro: It seemed like during college and those experiences now alone in that more competitive environment and sort of how you then ended up dealing with that.

[25:45] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah.

[25:46] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah.

[25:47] Cara Rose DiPietro: So one of the things that I think is really important to think about when it comes to eating disorders just in general across the board is that they're really good shape shifters.

[25:55] Cara Rose DiPietro: And at the end of the day, as most things and addictions go, because at the end of the day, that's what an eating disorder is. It's an addiction, but it's a tricky one because it's not something that you can stop. It's not something you can cut out. It's something that you actively have to do every single day.

[26:11] Cara Rose DiPietro: It's a control thing. At the end of the day, you turn to this thing because you're feeling out of control about something else in your life. That's why you do it.

[26:21] Cara Rose DiPietro: And so I look back at that time and I was looking around and I was like, OK, maybe I can't be the best. Maybe I can't be the most talented. Maybe I can't do this. Maybe I can't do that. Maybe I didn't get that part. Maybe I didn't do this, but I can be the best at this.

[26:35] Cara Rose DiPietro: This I can be the best at. At limiting my food intake. Yeah, I was like, I can be the best at all of this about playing this game and knowing how it works because I've done it for so long.

[26:46] Cara Rose DiPietro: And that's what I would turn to. And so that throughout the course of, you know, and it's interesting because until I had got to college, that was really never what it was about. It had never really had anything to do.

[27:01] Cara Rose DiPietro: It had nothing to do with my career or my life or like it had never had any ties. And then in college, it became completely about my whole identity. That sense it became a huge part of that.

[27:17] Cara Rose DiPietro: And so I think triggered by watching some other people struggle with some of the same ideas. I see you limiting your food intake. Oh, that's something I can win at. You know, that's something that I.

[27:27] Cara Rose DiPietro: Well, it was because it was so rewarded and it was so praised and it was such a culture thing. It was just how it was. That was that was how it was.

[27:34] Cara Rose DiPietro: And I think to some to say to people who who don't struggle with it or maybe who struggle with it and don't totally understand what it is. Those alarms don't go off.

[27:45] Cara Rose DiPietro: But when it is something that you struggle with, it's like immediately the fire alarms are going off and it's so immediately, even if it's not even said. So that was something that kind of made that like those alarms kind of go off in college and kind of set me down.

[28:04] Cara Rose DiPietro: I think it's important to speak for those people and speak for people who have had those experiences. Because at the end of the day, regardless of how I see myself, how I have ever viewed myself, I know that this industry will always, always, always view myself as a small, thin, cisgender, white woman. Like that is, regardless of how I see myself, because that is, like, my experiences have afforded me that kind of privilege. And so, like, my experiences at college, when I think back at them, like, are so, so much less severe than so many people, you know, who had so many experiences where they were praised and rewarded and were finally afforded opportunities when they started struggling with these things.

But I think it also just kind of opens up a door for a bigger conversation. Because especially, you know, something I talked about in my talk is, like, when my senior year, I started to become a bit more, like, kind of open and honest about it. Because it was something that people knew about. And because I, like, I am a pretty open and honest person. It was so shocking to hear about how many people were struggling with the same. And it's fascinating to me nowadays, how many people are talking about it and how many people are actively listening, you know?

[30:54] Charlie Murphy: So, so true. Okay, let's take a short break. And then we're going to dive deeper into this conversation on the back end. So back into Flash.

[30:59] Charlie Murphy: Okay, we are back with Cara Rose DiPietro. And I want to dive deep into this health journey. And we'll probably bounce around a little bit. But I'd love to start off with just, like, with where you are with it right now. And I don't know if it feels like this is something that feels like I've solved or I'm continuing to solve in different aspects of my life. But, like, what have been your broad scale conclusions about how you can navigate this while training and working in this business? So are there tips or other things for young people if they're struggling with in terms of what you've been able to learn from this experience?

[31:30] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah, I mean, something that I remember when I was in college, kind of my one of my biggest fears was like, okay, well, if I choose to recover, if I choose to get my body to a place where it is healthy, if I choose to take care of myself, no one will ever want to work with me again. That was the conclusion that I drew. And I was like, if I put my health first, I can't do this. Like, that's, I don't want this enough. It was like, I talked to myself into these circles. And so something that I say to myself and also to others, because sometimes I still tell myself that sometimes I'll find myself catching, like, no, you don't have time to, you still need to spend another hour doing this thing, you can't go to bed yet, you need to do X, Y, and Z, is that like, putting your health first and your career second is actually what putting your career first looks like.

Because at the end of the day, there is no career to be had if you're not here to have it. Which is something that if I had heard that when I was younger, it would have changed everything for me. Because like, you can, you can spend hours and hours, you know, working yourself into the ground and, and, you know, being this absolute machine. And I feel like oftentimes, we kind of glorify that and we celebrate those people that are grinding and like, Oh, I just wish I had that motivation and that drive. But when I started taking care of myself, and going to therapy, and taking not a lot, it doesn't take a lot of time, maybe an hour or two out of your week to prioritize the things that make you the best version of yourself. I was shocked at how much of a better artist it made me shocked at how much of a better human I was, and how I could show up in ways in my art and in my performance. And in my life.

[33:38] Charlie Murphy: Yep. I think it's all set. I mean, I think it's certainly true. I think your larger point in some ways is about the long term sustainability of a career of you can't work at an unsustainable rate and have a 40-year career. I think it's unquestionably true. I also think in some of the ways you're talking about in the short term, it's something I've been really emphasizing to our students right now, as we record this at the beginning of January, they'll be listening right as like New York City Unified is hitting. And that like right now, I think some of those self-care things are actually as important from a competitive standpoint, as drilling your song that one more time, but like, for most of our students who've been working with us for many months, yes, there's still technical things to do.

Yes, you can make some technicals. And those are have some importance, but are almost less important than like bringing a healthy human being into the room who's like alive and can play and like that. I'm like, okay, great. If they're subtle, doesn't and of course, it's like there's the student who started a week ago. I'm like, no, you do still need to memorize your monologue. But for most students, that's not the issue. It is more like, how do I bring this psychologically and physically and vocally healthy person into a room to exist?

[34:38] Cara Rose DiPietro: You feel like you're ready to talk, you talk, go cut me off anytime, go. I just wanted to, I feel like to your students that are listening to this, I was literally telling this story to someone the other day, and it totally has to do with what you said. Sometimes at Elon, I would help you, you would like help with auditions. And one of the things you would do, you would just like sign up and be like, how do I help? And one of the jobs was stapling the headshots and the resumes. And that was when you would sit in the vocal auditions. And it was so fascinating to me, because I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

[35:09] Charlie Murphy: Get in trouble, that's what we're here for.

[35:12] Cara Rose DiPietro: Like listen, every student who was auditioning for college has listened to me when I say this. From the second that a student would walk into that recital, they would open the door, they would walk in, they'd be like, hi. We would all be like, oh, that's an Elon student. I hope they can sing. They didn't even open their mouth yet. They would just be like, oh, that's an Elon kid. Hope that they can sing. It was like, that's it. And that was so shocking for me to see that it's like, oh, it is actually like, because there's a point where it's like, that is something I always remind myself. It's like, there is a point where everyone is good. Everyone is good to, like, there is a point that you get to, especially with the schools that prescreen, it's like, everyone around you is talented.

There is a point that you get to where it is not about how good you are. It is about who you are. And especially at certain schools, like, Elon specifically is about that. Like, Elon cares about who you are as a person. Like, they are so person forward, or at least that's always like how I, you know, and I'm sure other schools are as well. I just like use Elon because that's where I spent four years of my life. But like, that is what they would do. Like, they would walk in the room and you'd be like, oh, that's an Elon person. And they wouldn't even say, they wouldn't even sing a note. And so when you think about things like taking care of yourself and prioritizing, like, if you were so focused on your material and your music, like, yeah, you could be the best singer in the world. But if you're a brick wall, like, that's going to hurt you more than it's going to help you.

[36:39] Charlie Murphy: It's so true. And I think maybe some of the actionable advice from there, it's like, of course, there's something ineffable about who you are, if you're all revealing who you are successfully. It's like, some people will be Elon people, some people won't be Elon people. But there are people out there who might have been Elon people, who might be Elon people, but who were in their own way, who were not, who didn't do the work to show up and have that energy revealed, where Kara goes, yep, you, you can see that from across the room, that if you're in your head, and if you're not doing, that's why we're always talking about that psychological prep of how you get yourself prepared to walk in the room.

If you're not able to do that and show up as your full self, you might have been an Elon person and not revealing. That's the only tragedy. If you show up, we always say, if you show up and you do your best work and you show up as your authentic self, and someone says, no, it's actually not that big of a rejection because you go, great, this wasn't the right fit. We did it. We had a date. There was no chemistry moving on. But if you go, there actually might have been chemistry, but I didn't show up with my full self, that's where you go, oh, the regrets of what it could have been.

[37:34] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yes. And that's why I say the college audition process is so hard because it's like, I feel like it's one of the only times in your life that you're going to be asked to be like, this is me in an audition. And they'll be like, yes, no. You know what I mean? In life, when we're auditioning for things now, we're trying to fit a certain slot, but in college, it's so vulnerable because you're 18 years old and you're being expected to be like, this is who I am. And I'm like, God, I don't even know who I am. I'm 25, but I'm still trying to figure it out. Even if you're 40, it's like, there is, and I wouldn't say that I am, let's be clear, but it's like, there's still, you would never have auditions that are this vulnerable.

I mean, not never, you know, maybe it's a one-person show or something, I don't know, but like, it's like, you're never auditioning for yourself, really. You're trying to bring yourself to the role, but you easily could hear back from casting, oh, they loved you. You were six inches too tall, where it's like, there's no, you're six inches too tall for college. They could accept someone for that. Or, you know, it's like that, you know, it is about who you are that's being accepted or rejected. And even though, of course, the same experiences happen, it's not actually you, it's the representation of you that they're seeing in the room that they're, you know, for five minutes or for 10 minutes or whatever it is that they're saying no to, but it feels like it's, it's you because you're doing the work to vulnerability reveal yourself. So when someone says, no, thank you, especially if you feel like, yes, it's, it's very painful.

[38:53] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, on this sort of subject, this, I want to talk about the genesis for the need for perfection. And maybe I'll try to explain that a little bit because, you know, I do really understand it, of course, in a social media world and in a professional world that in some ways, perfection of a certain kind is, it's preferred. I mean, you can see someone go, oh, that this, this over this, from an algorithmic perspective, you look at who's cast in certain things, you go, oh, well look at her body or look at, you know, this person's amazing vocals or, you know, there's a certain element of, of perfection that makes sense. I kind of wonder in the college audition world, like where do you think students are getting that message?

Because I will certainly pat the back of this podcast in terms of how much we emphasize the goal is like bringing that raw individual authentic artists. Right. But I also really don't think this podcast is now unique in giving that messaging. I mean, that may, it may have been more distinguishing 20 years ago compared to other college coaches, but now, you know, nine out of 10 sources, a student is going to look for, if they're looking for expert information, it's going to say, bring in your authentic self, listen to the 200 colleges that have been on this podcast, 150 colleges have been on this podcast. They're all saying that they're not, it's not just Elon. They're all saying, who are you?

We're looking for unique artists, we're looking for whatever, but yet, even while that's happening, while more and more of that messaging is getting out there, more and more of our students, I think are striving for perfection. It is not the case that, you know, 15 years ago, that was not the only, we had students who were perfectionists, but that would have been a subset of our students. I feel like now it's more and more of our students who think it's about kicking your face and seeing the high C. So I guess I wonder, is it as simple as just social media is the death of all, but I guess, where do you see the sort of genesis of why your generation or generations younger are really struggling with that perfection?

[40:30] Cara Rose DiPietro: I do. I do think it's social media, which is so funny coming from the influencer, but, and we're going to talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think it's interesting because the way, the way I talk about social media specifically within our industry is that it's a tool, right? But social media in and of itself is a highlight reel. You get to choose what goes out there. And my hot take about when it comes to like toxic cultures within the college audition cultures and, and like the, like our like little New York City audition bubble is that any sort of culture that is there, we cultivate it. Yeah. It's a hamster wheel that we cultivate that like we kind of have to clock within ourselves. And it's kind of a hot take that not everyone agrees with, but I really do think it is social media because I think these students, I, so I'll give you an example, say that I was going through an audition and I met these girls at a, I met these girls at like a, um, an early audition that I went to in December.

And I followed a bunch of them and they posted, you know, all of these photos of themselves and like, and like videos and reels of them, you know, like kicking their face and doing all of these things and seeing all these incredible things. I would think to myself, Oh my gosh, they're perfect. They're so talented. I need to be that. And right now I'm not that. And even if I was that my social media doesn't show that I am. So I'm going through things.

[42:06] Cara Rose DiPietro: Do you feel like the students are also getting the messaging of, the goal is to be raw and imperfect and unique—and, and but they're just not believing it? Like, do you feel like it's like, okay, yeah, you say that, but then I see the kids that get in and they look perfect to me. And so I don't really believe the professors who are saying I'm looking for this thing. It's so hard because I, I mean, I do that now. Like, as a postdoc professional person, I like it's, it's something that, like, I still have to remind myself of, you know, because you, you, I try to tell myself the same things. And sometimes you see, like, announcements and things and you like, kind of like the same things. And it's, it's hard. You have to keep reminding yourself. Um, but kind of to go back to the thing that we have always been saying, there is so much merit and so much value in staying so, part of my French, like, fucking true to who you are and authentic to yourself.

[43:36] Charlie Murphy: That was not French, Cara. You said you took French in college.

[43:38] Cara Rose DiPietro: Oh, and I barely passed it.

[43:41] Charlie Murphy: With that kind of French, I'm shocked that you passed. Um, no, I think that's so true. And, and I think of course the challenge of social media, and I do understand, you know, again, 150 schools saying a version of we're looking for unique raw artists and then almost kind of glossing over them. Like, but also a lot of these people are handsome and tall and great dancers and sing very well. And that there is talent as an element of it too, that they're not always as forthright as I think they could be about it. But I think there is an element of it, and this is really me hazarding a guess because I can't imagine exactly what it's like to be a 17-year-old today. We had different, you know, struggles and not that different, but different enough that it's difficult for me to really get in the head.

But, but some element of it that is, it is easier in some ways, I think to focus on perfection than to live in the like messiness of like, it's harder to be vulnerable. It's harder to be like, maybe they just didn't want me. It's easier for me to say, oh, they took the handsomer guy. That's because his, you know, he's got a six-pack and I don't have it. It's easier for me to deal with that rejection than to say like, what if they just liked his talent more? Or what if they, you know, that's a harder, and I think on the college level, I do think some of our students will focus more on it's, you know, we're talking about in some ways looks based perfection, but some of it's even the focus on the high kick or focus on the high C. And that's the most important thing when, even if they do at some level, believe the other messier thing is more important. It's like, it's more vulnerable. It's harder to focus on that, I think. So there's some, maybe accountability there.

[46:10] Cara Rose DiPietro: I think it's hard because like, at the end of the day, like our lives are so public. I think, thank God that I was not auditioning for colleges when social media and TikTok was a thing. Cause I don't know what it would have done to me, but it wouldn't have been anything good. Um, but I think just like our lives are so public now. Yeah. Our, you know, everything about our lives, that information is so accessible. And I have this conversation with students a lot who are like, I don't like social media. I don't like Instagram, but everyone tells me I have to use it in order to be an actor as a tool. And it's like, yes and no. And there, I think there are so many ways around it that I'm like, here's how you do it without having to use it.

Um, but it is hard because it's like our lives are so public. You know, I think I kind of have to find that balance a lot because I, I joke that I share my whole life on the internet with the exception of some ginormous parts of it, but it's like, it's, it's finding that balance, you know?

[47:13] Charlie Murphy: Yep. That's so well said. It's so well said. Yeah. And, and I think it's complicated and I certainly want to be empathetic to those out there who are struggling with that. But, but I do think I want to make sure the message of like, while I think if you hear there's an element of, there's an element of shellacking over a very understandable desire to look a certain way, sound a certain way, dance a certain way, you know, those sort of objective goals. I think the important thing that I want to make sure we emphasize is like the goal is still that raw, messy, authentic thing. You know, messy doesn't have to mean a mess, but like that the vulnerability is the goal that these professors are not BSing you.

Certainly at the college level, we can talk a little bit and I want to talk as we get into the professional level, how that's elements of that are true and potentially shift a little bit when you're talking about, you know, being cast in something that's going to pay you money, but you know, from the college level, that is the goal and it is hard. So I'm empathetic with, it's hard to focus on, on living in that raw and unknown place. But I guess just, just sort of saying that is, it's not BS, that is actually still the goal is to find that if you possibly can.

[48:15] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yes. And I think too, there are also, it makes my heart so happy to see that the people that are on these apps, the people that have been given platforms are not people who are preaching any of that like perfect. Like I, I always, I maybe DM her this every other week where I'm like, Ellery, if I had seen this video when I was 18, it would have changed my life. Like Ellery Ward, people like her, like people who are just so unapologetically, like this, like they are, who are such incredible role models in this industry of being like, of authenticity. That makes my heart happier than anything else. So that the fact that like the role models on social media are not examples of that makes me happy.

[49:04] Charlie Murphy: No, it's so true. I guess that's part of the irony of why I bring it up. It feels like the messaging has gotten better and the disease has gotten worse. Somehow the messaging is great, but it's yeah, it's so much. All right. Let's take another short break and we're going to talk a little bit more about all of this. Uh, so we're back in a flash with Cara.

[49:19] Charlie Murphy: All right. We are back with Cara Rose DiPietro and we're going to keep going, you know, some of these conversations we've been having really, they're sort of about, about process over product. Certainly something that we kind of, um, emphasize in this process because the college audition process is a process and they're looking for students who are going to spend four years at their school and are in process. They don't need a final finish product for a 17, 18-year-old. But I'd love to kind of talk about how that has changed and shifted for you in your life as you now are a social media influencer and a professional actor who is paid and at times paid and cast to fit into a certain costume that you can't completely avoid, you know, uh, not always past a certain costume, but that someone might want a certain look or a certain product from you in a different way that in the college world, how has that shifted for you in terms of your journey and how you think about process and product as you sort of become a literal product now?

[50:10] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's fascinating because I, something in college that a lot of people, a lot of us like struggled with is like branding, you know, they talk about it a lot being like, what is your brand? You know, what is your type? Who are you? And I have been a very, one of the like kind of fortunate few that that has never been a question in my life. I just with the way that I sound and the way that my face looks and my height, it is so evident and obvious and clear what I do, how I do it, if that makes sense. Like the box that I fit into and what I do is so clear. I like, I never really had a hard time figuring out my path. And I will say the interesting thing in the last year of my life has been turning 25, turning 24 and starting to say, Hey, I do more, you know, like I, I, my age, the thing I've joked about is like, I haven't played someone over the role of 18 since I graduated college until I played Audrey this last summer in Little Shop of Horrors, which was so funny.

And don't get me wrong. Like I will milk those, those young roles until I literally can't anymore. Celia Keenan-Bolger was talking about it. She's like, I'm still doing it. I'm not going to say I won't do it anymore. I will milk it to the day that I die. But it's also something that like, I also allowed that mindset and that box to limit myself and tell myself what I could and can't do. So actually, literally, it's so funny behind you is a little note on my screen. I'm redoing my entire audition book because I took a look at it and was like, I, it was so, it was, it was very specific. And I was putting myself into, into this box that I had kind of put myself into a really long time. Um, and kind of wouldn't let myself explore anything else.

Um, and so this last, the last couple of months have been kind of full of a lot of like, okay, wait, you, you do more. And so kind of let myself explore those other parts of me as an artist and flex those other muscles. Um, and I think it's just kind of something I have to remember. And I'm trying to allow myself to remember is that like the learning doesn't stop when you graduate college. I, the funny thing is, is I really didn't study voice until I got to college. So I really feel like when I graduated, I was ready to start if that makes sense. And I really, in the last two years of my life, feel like I have finally settled into who I am and what I do. So if you're like listening to this and you are in college and you are still trying to find your footing, like, I don't want you to feel, I hope this brings you comfort that like when I graduated college, I was like, yeah, I know, I know who I am and what I do.

And now I'm 25. And I'm like, no, yeah, now I know who I am and what I do. It's, you're not done when you graduate college, like you've got a roadmap and now you're ready to like, keep driving the car, if that makes sense.

[53:34] Charlie Murphy: Wait till Saturn returns for you. Just wait till it's coming in a couple of years. No, that's, uh, but I wonder, is there any element of that, you know, when we talk about the mental health journey, is there any element of that in terms of, you know, both you're talking about your type of your brand in the professional world, but I'm also talking about like now it was social media, like literally like you have an Amazon storefront and you are selling yourself, you know, and to some extent, I don't know what consciousness I really, cause I cannot picture being an influencer and doing a makeup tutorial or something, but some you are in some ways selling your beauty while talking about deep, beautiful, mental health oriented things.

Like, is that ever in conflict or do you ever feel an incongruousness to that or a difficulty that like rears the ugly head of like, okay, now I need to take a second for myself to, you know, to just check in with what is that product that is my body and my face and my voice and those kinds of things?

[54:22] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. I mean, my rule, I mean, this cause ever, all of this totally have my accident. I never, ever planned for this to be a part of my life the way that it is. But my rule has always been if it, if 14-year-old Cara needed to hear it and it doesn't take anything from 25-year-old Cara to say it, I'll say it. And oftentimes I always ask myself that. And if it takes something from me to say it, I won't. And oftentimes it will. And I'll be like, okay, I'm going to step on the brakes and maybe sometimes I'll revisit it and it won't. Um, but I will say that I feel like it's taught me a lot about myself as a person and it's given me a sense of purpose outside of my art. If that makes sense. So like when I'm, I, I, sometimes I feel like a lot of what we do as artists and as actors can be a bit self-indulgent in the sense of like when I'm on stage or when I'm performing or auditioning, I get very in my head about like what I'm doing and how it's reading to other people and how other people are going to perceive me.

But then at the stage door, I'll get a mom coming up to me and saying, Hey, I want to thank you for X, Y, and Z. And for being someone that my daughter can watch while she's recovering from an eating disorder. Um, and then all of the sudden what I'm doing and what I'm working for isn't about me. It's about showing that like, you can be all of this. You can have a life that you love. You can be absolutely anything. You don't have to just do this one thing. You can be a multi-hyphenate person. And it like, it's not, it's not just about being this music theater robot. It's about being a fully formed human.

[56:08] Cara Rose DiPietro: You can certainly influence your success in this business, but you're never going to have full control over it. You can't control the huge movie that's going to come in or the, you know, you can set yourself up for success, but you are at the whims of this business as an actor. And it's something I always say about it. And at the end of the day, my rule is the second that I feel like I have to, I stop. And that is the reason why I, like when people ask me about social media and like how I've been able to do it, that is the rule that I tell them. This is when you feel like you have to do it is the second that you start to loathe it. And I've, it's about burnout. I say that about theater all the time.

I'm like, sometimes you have to put the brakes on because if you start to hate the thing that you love, why are you doing it? What's the point? And so when I first started doing social media, I had no financial stake in it. It wasn't helping my career in a way that I knew about at the time. Like I wasn't doing it intentionally. I was working my serving job 40 hours a week, but I had this little thing in my pocket that was letting me be creative while I was working in New York City that I, like, it was a thing that was allowing me to feel like I was doing something creative that was bringing me joy that felt like it gave me some semblance of control over my life and my career. And I circled even back to that this last fall, I was having a conversation with a friend because I felt very out of control with my life and my career.

And I was feeling frustrated and she kind of gave me this reminder and she was like, hold on, look at what you have in front of you, use it. And I was like, wait, you're right. Like, look at what you have in front of you and look at the people around you too, that you admire and look at the things that they have done and created. Oftentimes it resulted from them being like, I want this. How am I going to do it? How am I going to make it? It's so well said. And, you know, we talk a lot about the intentionality of like, what is it to step in a room and go, I get to do this versus going, I have to do this. My life has set me up in a way to be like, I guess I have to do all these posts. And it's like, you don't actually have to. If you look at the opportunity, I get to do this. And what do I want to do with it? It's the same action, but it's with such a different intention. And it comes out so differently.

[59:14] Charlie Murphy: Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with consumption of social media? Are you someone who spends a lot of time on TikTok, Instagram? How do you spend your time? How do you curate your feed if you do? I'd love to hear about sort of how you avoid the pitfalls of consumption that I know people struggle with.

[59:28] Cara Rose DiPietro: It's so hard. We're trying. That's something I'm really working on right now. Actually, it's something I try. January, time for resolution. Here we go. It's interesting, too, because in the last couple of months, social media, too, in terms of my life, has shifted in a way that like I am at the moment, full time freelancing. So like my, I fully really am working for myself. And so finding that balance of like, how much do I consume so that I'm on top of, like from a, you know, strategic standpoint, how on top of trends am I? How much am I editing? How much am I posting a day? How much am I making sure that I'm engaging in content, posting in content, but also like not wanting to fall into that pitfall?

Because I find often the more I consume, the less creative I feel, but I still want to stay on top of things. So I, it's a lot of trial and error. I found, you know, I do sometimes I like to set timers for myself. I have a friend who sets app blocks on her phone. That's really helpful for her. I know you can like limit certain words. Like if someone, if you have like a really hard time with certain content and it's, it's not great for you. I love the mute button on Instagram. Oh my gosh. If there is someone in your life that you love so much and you just have a really hard time watching their content, because maybe it makes you feel really competitive with yourself, you can mute them and they never see it, but it just means that you won't be actively showed their stuff.

It's the best button in the world. I think it's so great. It's like, it's a lot of trial and error, you know? It's almost like, and I think so smart. The idea of too much consumption can limit creativity. You obviously, you're not going to never consume as a creative. It's a, you know, you have to have some, something coming in to, for you to make output. But sometimes we think the more we consume, the more creative ideas we'll get. And I think really sometimes not, you get over full and then you, it makes you low gear, whatever, not to make it all a hunger thing.

[1:01:26] Charlie Murphy: I wanted to talk a little bit about gender in all of this, cause it was something that really sparked for me watching your talk. I promise some personal stories here. I found myself thinking about my own drama school experience and I was thinking about all my female identifying schoolmates and what I know they all went through. It was very kind of public. We, a lot of our classmates and schoolmates were going through specifically anorexia bulimia. We knew that was happening. And then I had to shake myself in a little bit and be like, but why are you only thinking about the women in your class? Cause you, Charlie also gained and lost 30 pounds twice during those years. Like that also was happening to me.

And I went to the gym obsessively at one point on the direct behest of a teacher, I think a very well-intentioned teacher, but they were like, you will get more roles if you fill out in these ways. Like you're, you know, I played baseball and they're like, there's like, you're a little like bottom heavy. They're like, right now you've really strong legs, but like, you should fill out your chest a little bit. Like, and I was like, oh my God, that's a very specific comment to get from a 50 some year old teacher. Who's telling you what to do with your body. So, and, and I just know from my experiences, I was far from the only guy. As soon as I started doing that, I'm like, and what about this guy?

And what was going on there? So I just, I'm wondering in all of your me too's that you heard, hearing back from this, were you hearing back from male identifying students? Was it mostly female identifying and how that gender experience may have differed? I know of course, gender is a very complicated spectrum, but, but did you hear different experiences from different sort of gender identifying groups?

[1:03:45] Cara Rose DiPietro: I would say about a third of the experiences were about men, were from men. And I would probably say that was only a third because I probably interacted with less men and something. I'm actually really glad that you brought this up because I think it, it is a, I feel like it is just a different ball game for the two. When we think about like traditionally female identifying actors and male identifying actors, they are held to two different standards. And when we think about specifically in the performing arts, when we think about like size inclusivity and body positivity, and we think about like eating disorders and we think about all of these things in our industry, we have such a specific mindset and we feel like we are making moves and we're making strides when it comes to female identifying.

And then we turn to the male identifying actors and dancers and nothing has changed because we're not talking about it because it's celebrated and it's expected. And also this, but also it's interesting because these standards are also tied to cultural things outside of the theater sphere. Like a huge part of it comes from gay culture. And that was something that I learned a lot about when I was in college and talking to some of my peers, like, it's not just about theater. A lot of it comes from like the social culture that comes from being a gay man in New York City and the social pressures that come from that. And it's so, it's so fascinating because it's just, and it's, while it's like people, like when we're talking about it, like with, like if, you know, when people talk to me about my experience, they're like, gosh, that's so horrible that you went through that.

If they were to, you know, I talked to a friend of mine who was like, I didn't start getting jobs until I got a six pack. And then all of a sudden people started paying attention to me and I got representation and my whole life changed. And it's like, that is the stuff that we're not talking about it. And it's celebrated and it's praised and rewarded. And I, you know, sometimes I'll look at an ensemble, I'll look at a cast announcement and they'll be like, wow, look at the body diversity in this. It's like, yeah, awesome. Look at the body diversity in the female cast. Look at the men. Yep. And no one's talking about it. Yep. It's so, yeah, it's so interesting. Like so many of these conversations with identity, it's like, it's just, it's complicated because I think it is unquestionably from a statistical perspective, it has been, and I think still is worse for women.

Like the experience is more, um, it seems like it's more insidious. It's more, um, certainly historically damaging, but it also does feel like it's more overt sometimes with men. Like there's certain things that you'll hear of like a praising of a male body that I would go, you actually wouldn't say, like, I know you're a liberal, very careful. You would not say that about a woman's top half the way that you're saying that about a man's top half, like really, you know, and objectifying and certain things that, that it's just a little bit more acceptable.

[1:06:19] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. Boys don't have eating disorders. That's the thing girls have. And that's what, that's what men are taught. That's the narrative that they are fed, which is why statistically we don't see like many men. Like when we, when we look at the statistics, a lot less men are diagnosed. Of course they're not diagnosed because no, they're not going to come forward. Like that's just, that's because that is the culture that, that there's like, that they are, that they are enthralled in absolutely. And in theater, 1000%.

[1:06:41] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And so it's, it's really complicated, but, but I guess I wanted to throw out there, you know, so I promised vulnerability. I'm like men too. I mean, that's certainly something that, that many have struggled with and I think feel, uh, maybe a difficulty bringing up in a way that I think it is certainly more acceptable now than it was then certainly across the board. But I do think a lot of men, maybe especially like a straight man would really have trouble saying like, as I'm doing right now, have trouble saying like, Hey, this is something I struggle with too. That like, it's one of the ways toxic masculinity can sort of be toxic to us all of being like, Hey, it's hard to be like, that kind of hurt. I kind of wish you didn't talk about that person's body instead of my body or whatever, like in the same ways that a kid has experienced.

[1:06:52] Charlie Murphy: Yep. All right. I'd love to move this conversation to a wrap with two bits of advice. So if you prepared for a double barrel of advice, I'd wanted to circle back. I put this a little earlier in terms of the conversation about control, you know, and I guess we talked a little bit about some of the control of your life. Have you found any tips or any sort of ways to help you release that need for control that you found in, in college with, you know, now as a young professional and still very young, but have you found a little bit of, of, Hey, I'm able to actually not white knuckle this as much for yourself?

[1:07:24] Cara Rose DiPietro: Yeah. Um, the phrase I have never looked back on a no and not understood why I have never, and sometimes it's taken me years. Sometimes it's taken me days, weeks, months, whatever. But every time I've like gone through some kind of a rejection and it was something that I really wanted, or it was something that I was really devastated about. I've been able to look back and been like, Oh gosh, if I had gotten that thing, I wouldn't have met that person. I wouldn't have been able to go to that audition. I wouldn't have been able to do this or that or that. And I wouldn't have, and the thing that it led me to has always been an incredibly life-changing thing. Um, you know, like the example I give was the first summer that I didn't book work.

I felt like such a failure. Oh my gosh. I felt like it was the end of the world and that, uh, like it was just, that was a, it was doomsday. I was never going to work again. And everyone hated me. Um, and that was my first summer in New York. And it was the summer that my social media took off. It was the summer that started my life here. Um, and changed my life here. If I had not been here in the city, I wouldn't be talking to you today. And I could give you a billion more examples, but that knowledge, even though it's so hard in the moment, even when I'm like, Oh, I know this is going to be true. But right now it sucks. That knowledge, being able to look back at every single time and knowing that it's never been wrong, helps me to release the control of being like, you know what?

There is literally already a plan. All I can do is my best and know that there is already a plan and it's great. I just got to keep doing what I do. So I often use the example of, uh, you know, COVID of course was a horrible experience, but if it wasn't COVID, I probably wouldn't have my daughter. At least you wouldn't have this specific daughter that maybe would have had a daughter later. Who knows? You know, but, and that doesn't mean like COVID was a net good that necessarily, but it's like, that's the way life, you know, one door closes and other door opens. It's just, it's the way that life works.

[1:09:39] Charlie Murphy: Um, are you crushed the first barrel now? Here we go. The second barrel, this is a little tougher, but I'm going to give you the challenge. Cause here we are, this can be releasing late January. So people are just about to hit New York City Unified, Chicago Unified, LA Unified, depending when they're listening. They could be at different points of that, you know, and I've given that little challenge to our students and I'll definitely be talking about it in the next couple of pods in general, but like. As they try to bring in this psychologically, mentally, vocally, physically healthy body into a room. We know how important that is to be able to bring that full self into the room. Is there any advice of like in the next couple of days, if...

[1:10:10] Cara Rose DiPietro: I would say build yourself a little like toolkit and a little checklist. I'm someone who like has to make lists of things and plan things or else my little like ADHD brain will never do them and I'll explode. But something that's helpful to me before like big moments and big auditions is the day before I will like plan out or like set like schedule out the things that I know I'll need. So like the things that I need when I know I'm about to have a stressful day is like I know that I need an hour in the morning to just like sit. I need to drink my coffee. I need to journal. I need to eat my breakfast. I need to give myself time to get ready slowly. I need to like set myself up for success in those ways.

I need to have my outfit planned out. Everything, all the choices are made. And those are the things that I need. Maybe you need different things but I would just try to make every, I would set myself up for success in every single way I possibly could. And that's what I would do. I think the only thing that you can control in those moments is showing up as the best version of yourself and that also means like setting yourself up for success personally and remain calm and focused and centered. And the way that you can do that is by setting yourself up for success in the best way possible. So I would just like build yourself a little toolkit and then you can keep that list with you through every audition and maybe you can figure out like oh when I'm traveling to auditions I can pack this like one specific thing or these specific like this little snack box of bars that I can always have with me or I can bring this outfit with me or I can have this journal or I can have x y and z with me so I can always have it with me like things that provide you with consistency so you don't always feel like you're on the fly.

[1:12:42] Charlie Murphy: Yep it's such good advice and it's certainly advice that we give of yeah how do you how do you prepare your preparation that you you need to be able to know how you need to best prepare and I think there's some best practice a lot of things you're talking about like a lot of people should do that there should be this kind of physical warm-up and a vocal warm-up those are all things that you should have planned and shouldn't be winging on the fly and but different people will have different things that are most important to them but it is you know the more you control those things the more that you can then actually try to show up and not control what happens in the room because you're going to have that instinct to grip as we've been talking about in so many different ways we have the instinct to control but to know if I try to control the room and in a robotic way that's not going to be helpful for me artistically but I can control the way that I come in prepared I can show up as my full self and be ready to improv be ready to be flexible in those moments.

[1:13:30] Cara Rose DiPietro: I there's this incredible Mel Robbins who I feel like everyone has probably heard of has is this she's a public speaker she has a podcast she does like she's just brilliant and she has this whole talk about confidence and she's like confidence is not a feeling confidence is the willingness to try and that hearing that changed my life and so when I think so when I go into auditions and I psych myself out and I think like oh I just wasn't confident I think back and I'm like okay well why yeah didn't prepare maybe I did maybe I didn't because I was like oh I'm not going to get it anyway so I didn't prepare enough maybe I didn't set myself up for success enough whereas when I a week before choose my cut set my I set my alarm I wake up with enough time I get ready an hour before I need to leave do x y and z I walk in there feeling confident because I tried yep and all of a sudden I feel great and I leave the room and even if I don't get it I'm like well I feel pretty confident pretty good because I try to be truly prepared will enable you to be flexible if you're prepared in the right way of course you could prepare in a way that's like if you're preparing badly and you're sort of setting it and going it's gonna go but we know not to do that so so but sometimes people think actually if I'm a little less prepared I'll be more improv it's like no no actually when you come in less prepared you feel vulnerable and you grip your body goes oh god fight or flight here we go and and do it in a tight way as opposed to like hey I could do this six different ways they've all worked in my living room I know what I'm doing let's see what happens let's give it a go like you're much freer when you're more prepared.

[1:15:02] Charlie Murphy: All right we have I said we'd wrap it up here you are you're recommending other coaching companies you're recommending other podcasts getting yourself in um we know if we want to check you out more or other pods or other coaching companies we can go to at cara rose dipetro on instagram that's c-a-r-a-r-o-s-e-d-i-p-i-e-t-r-o I only really need to spell your last name but I did the whole thing um but you know you're only legally allowed to do that if you're also following us on at mapping the college edition as well it's the only way we'll let you follow uh cara thanks for the time today cara really thank you for having me.

[1:15:35] Charlie Murphy: Yes yes yes I hope you enjoyed that conversation with cara and for those watching the video welcome to staring at my face for over an hour did our first video guest have to be this like young attractive person I feel like it could have been like an old college faculty member to make me look a little better by comparison but there you have it uh lots of takeaways this week so I'm gonna try to fly through them uh my first takeaway is and I don't do this a lot is a question to all of you so please let us know via email with our mailbag at mapping the college edition or in social comments on the socials media would you be interested in more content relating to the transition from high school to college the transition out of high school and into college you know I really like that kara brought that up and it's come up a few times before in the past couple years especially with parents and especially with that struggle of what it is to send their kids out of state some people sending them 30 minutes away but a lot of parents struggle with the idea of sending them out of state so if you all have questions in that area it might be something we try to cover a little bit more explicitly on the podcast as well as for mtca and future webinars as well I'll just tell you that has made its way to our docket for discussion and I'd love to hear what you all think is that something that would be helpful uh commentary for all of you and I always feel that way in general if there's anything specific that we haven't addressed that you would like addressed in the pod please do get that into their mailbag at mapping the college edition.com or of course on social media.

[1:16:47] Charlie Murphy: And then yes my second takeaway is just underlining some of what we're talking about in that conversation about perfection I am fascinated by that question I asked kara of why we think it's happening because we all kind of acknowledge that as the messaging is getting better and more clear the problem is getting worse and I'm suspicious that the answer might be a bit more complicated than just social media maybe it's just a detailed answer of all the ramifications of our phone obsessed culture and how that relates to social media but that is kind of more of a punditry question I'm interested in it but that's kind of inside baseball in the process and I think a bit less relevant to all of you I think from a takeaway perspective the thing I'd want all of you to focus on especially those of you who are about to engage in auditions in the coming days and weeks is that please believe me about the goal being individuality and vulnerability and uniqueness and imperfections and not a shellacked gorgeous impenetrable performance right you've heard all the schools say it you've heard me say it so all I can do is beg you to believe me I'm not lying to you you know it's funny it's I think it's one of the ways that my generation of performers is much different than performers today or maybe most different from performers today is we were almost competitive with how raw and how vulnerable we could be like sometimes it would almost be comical that we would pursue this idea of like being artists or artists right and end up being almost caricatures of ourselves because we're trying to show how flexible how bold how crazy how non-mainstream we are right and I think that's a bit related to the conversation about overconfidence something some a lot of my generation struggled with and versus humility that we've had before in the podcast you know where students now are much more likely to be humble and more afraid to take up space I've used that phrase loud humility my generation was not afraid to take up space and sometimes had that opposite problem of almost taking up to space or taking up too much space or taking up space in in ways that weren't necessarily very helpful but and this gets back to the discussion we're having with Kara I will say that I know that is easier said than done for so for those of you who believe me and believe all these professors please know that I and importantly here they behind the table they know that that if you're working toward that goal it's a difficult one to achieve so it's okay even if you are imperfect at being imperfect right that's okay but really it comes down to how you're holding your instrument I mean the instrument of your body right just knowing that your default if you let the adrenaline take over in the wrong way your default maybe kind of seize control and hold the thing too tightly right and and if you can allow yourself then to kind of gently encourage your body to release a little bit with each successive audition right if you think of your body like a musical instrument you know that if it's gripped too tightly in certain ways it won't be able to resonate fully right we want to meet you and your instrument as it actually is and see what it sounds like when it's not gripped too tightly so please I encourage you all to work toward that work toward the goal of allowing instead of forcing of allowing instead of controlling and see what happens like we said this only works if you've put in the work and you're prepared but I know that the vast majority of our listeners have put in the hard work and have prepared they may have worked for a year two years on this material on this audition they've been living it they've been dreaming it and now their challenge is really to let go and allow you know in a lot of ways that is like a long-winded way of just saying have fun right because of course that's the ultimate goal is to have fun and if you're having fun in the room you're doing all these things but I think when people hear have fun it can kind of go in one ear and out the other as kind of an empty statement of like have fun god this is too important to have fun it's just something that I don't think people always hear and let it really land on them what we mean when we say have fun and I like the idea of kind of playing as an active and difficult goal it's not easy to truly play that's like the ultimate challenge which then it allows me to actually have fun if I'm going I'm striving for that idea of playing then it is fun to achieve and succeed or fail at that goal but to be striving toward it right and then that brings me to my last takeaway which is related to this and it's just I loved Kara quoting Mel Robbins in that idea of confidence is not a feeling it's a willingness to try I think that is such a helpful way to think about it you know we all know how important it is to be able to walk in those rooms with confidence but that doesn't mean that you can suddenly somehow just feel confident whoever does who feels confident right it feels related to that idea of like bravery is not the absence of fear but the willingness to persevere through it I know I'm quoting someone there but I don't know who so apologies if that's your quote um if it's your quote you're probably not listening to this podcast but apologies for not attributing that quote to whoever it belongs to um but confidence it is not something that needs to be felt it's something that needs to be performed and again when I say performed that doesn't mean you need to show me your confidence I never need to see or feel that you were obviously confident but I just need you to be able to take the leap jump off the cliff and trust you can build your wings on the way down that's confidence right but if you feel terrified as you're making that leap great who wouldn't feel terrified right hopefully it's a bit exhilarating too it's not only terrified it's not all of a negative feeling but don't let yourself think something is wrong just because you don't feel confident and comfortable as you take a leap that you don't know the wing building is going to go great right you don't have to feel any certain way you just have to take that action to jump off the cliff and do the wing building and then do it again and again and again and you'll get a little bit better each time you do it right and so if you have those moments of oh god oh no I'm up next I have to go into this audition and it's a big one it's my Michigan audition it's my Carnegie Mellon audition whatever that audition that for you feels like a really big one see if you can just give yourself that little pause and change yourself talk and say I get to go into this audition and take the leap right sort of like we talked about earlier that the idea of shifting your nerves into excitement is much easier than trying to eliminate your nerves entirely all you have to do is actively decide to jump and then the confidence part it really does come along for the journey even if you don't feel confident right as you're about to take that leap.

[1:22:52] Charlie Murphy: Okay that's enough for a takeaway our first video takeaway let's go if you see little cuts and edits in these things in the intro in the outro just please know that is not because I sometimes make mistakes on these takeaways we're just adding those little cuts in so that I can look cool like I'm doing a TikTok video like the kids right but all of my actual intros and outros are done perfectly in one take and I want you all to know that that's very important as my daughter says daddy doesn't make mistakes and that is just true for me just to be clear I would never say to you all daddy doesn't make mistakes as if that's my voice saying that that makes me uncomfortable even thinking it and speaking of edits this podcast is produced by Megan Courtier and Kelly Prendergast with Jordan Rice lending us some social media genius please follow us at mapping the college edition on instagram and mtca wherever humanly possible and check us out at mtca.com for more information on how we can help you with your individual college prep needs to my young artists out there mapping their journeys what does the word competitive mean to you? See you next week!