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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theater College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today, we've got Rachel Stevens from CCM on the show for our finale episode for Season 3 of Mapping The College Audition. Rachel is another Act 2 interview following up on our Eric Santagata episode. So if you're very interested in CCM and you're the kind of person who insists on watching or listening to things in order, then I invite you to pause this episode, go listen to the interview with Eric from January 2022, and come back and listen to this as an update and follow up.

But I really do think it is a fantastic episode. Rachel, as you'll hear from the show, is a former MTCA coach. So you're going to hear a bit more lively joking and banter than I might give to other faculty members on a regular basis. She really is a special one. You know, it's been one of the craziest things about running this team for the past few decades now, is just seeing how many of our coaches end up being on faculty at these amazing programs. Coaches at Pace, at Marymount, at Carnegie Mellon, CCM, just to name a few. We really do find the best people. It reminds me of a story, one of my favorite stories, from a mock a few years back. One of our mock auditions, one of our students came out of a movement call.

This is one of our acting students, so they do a movement call when our musical theater students are doing a dance call. And she looked crestfallen. And I was like, what's wrong? Is everything okay? She was like, that class was so good. Now all I want to do is find a program with a teacher as good as Ryan. Which of course is a great compliment, but it also has now literally become true for a lot of our former students. As you know, Rachel's going to tell a story on the show that she ended up working with a former student at CCM who had really loved working with her. And Ryan ended up working with former MTCA students when he was working at Carnegie Mellon. And many of our coaches have done that.

So some beautiful full circle moments indeed. As I mentioned last week, this very exciting episode also coincides with our annual summer break. We're going to take about five weeks off and we will be re-airing some of our favorite artists episodes from the past season still on these Wednesdays. I invite you to listen to those if you're interested, or of course you can pour back over our catalog of schools if you prefer for any that you haven't already listened to. See if you can track my progress as a podcast host from episode one to now. Do I feel more comfortable? Am I doing better? Just like your own artistic journeys, a bit of rehearsal does tend to improve things, doesn't it? I think I get better as we go.

All right. I hope you have a great July. I'll see many of you for the current MTCA students at our upcoming summer faculty masterclass. We cannot wait for that. And I'll be back with new episodes at the top of August. We have a really exciting lineup coming for you, including some different kinds of programs, some more BAs, some BMs to join to our list of many BFAs, and some really great new artists. I mentioned that we have a big Broadway choreographer that we just recorded and looking forward to being back in your then. But for now, enjoy this rollicking interview with the great Rachel Stevens from CCM.

[3:16] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited, overjoyed even, to be joined by Rachel Stevens. Rachel has a BFA in MT from Point Park University, an MFA from the Actors Studio Drama School at Pace University. She's assistant-directed on Broadway in Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812, as well as off-Broadway in Smart, Blonde, and Preludes. She also did the regional production of The Bandstand at Paper Mill Playhouse, which is directed by Andy Blankenbuehler. Previously, she has taught on faculty at Oakland University and, as we'll talk about way too much in this episode, a long-time beloved MTCA monologue coach and is currently a visiting professor of acting and musical theater at CCM. CCM is located still in Cincinnati, Ohio. They take about 20 in MT and 20 in acting. They offer degrees in acting, musical theater, and dance. Those are all BFAs. Rachel, welcome on the pod. How are you feeling? How are you doing today?

[4:13] Rachel Stevens: Oh, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Charlie. This is fun. This is like coming home.

[4:17] Charlie Murphy: Is it intimidating to have your bio read on a now-official MTCA podcast? I mean, truly elevated up on a platform.

[4:22] Rachel Stevens: Truly. No, it is a little intimidating. I was thinking about it before we got on today, and I was like, oh, I feel so confident standing in front of a class or in front of a rehearsal room. And it's like, oh, this is just me. Now, I know how the students feel. It's just you, but it's also, it's just you and the abyss. It's like, this is recorded forever into the weird universe. They're like, all these different countries are going to hear you, people that you're like, I'm never going to meet this person. You're really putting me at ease, Charlie, truly.

[4:49] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's good. I mean, we're talking about thousands and thousands of people, Rachel.

[4:54] Rachel Stevens: Thousands of people, yes. No, I'm thrilled.

[4:58] Charlie Murphy: Okay. Well, as I mentioned, we are so excited to have you on, not only because you're a former MTCA coach, which is so exciting for us always, but also because you're in this great position of being a new faculty member at CCM and hopefully can give us some updated scoop since our last episode we had with Eric Santagata in early 2022. And, you know, I will tell you, Rachel, I'm going to give you a little compliment here and put you more at ease than I did with freaking you out. I ran into a few CCM alumni who were on their spring break. I was at a showing of Illinois' and I mentioned, hey, you know, Rachel's an MTCA, a former coach, and they all said that you're everybody's favorite. Now I'm not going to out those tunes. That's an honest to God truth. They said, Rachel, she's everybody's favorite.

[5:33] Rachel Stevens: I was like, well, there you go.

[5:34] Charlie Murphy: There you go. I mean, that is, that's a huge compliment. That's wonderful.

[5:38] Rachel Stevens: Well, a random five people all gave you, that's a strong poll. I think that's a pretty strong poll.

[5:43] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. You know, just like many of other kind of Act 2, 2.0 episodes, I do really want to think of this as a continuation of the conversation that we had with Eric. So, you know, that would be true of a lot of schools where, you know, a lot of institutional things may be the same with a different leader, but I think maybe especially helpful in this case in tracking the journey of CCM in its evolution from Aubrey's many years of leadership to the transition to Eric and some of the new directional ideas he talked about to where CCM is now with Vince and some new faculty. So I want to get at all those specifics, but just to say for our listeners, I'm not going to do the full deep dive with all of the details, all the logistical everything, some of the academic information that's really going to be the same from two years ago.

So like with some of these more subjective questions, we are going to repeat them and to give you a chance to sort of speak toward your experience of them. But please do listen back to the episode if you're interested in CCM and you want to get all the full details, you can maybe listen to that first and then hear this as kind of an Act 2 to all of it. Okay. My PSA is over. Let's get into the good stuff. Before I start grilling you about CCM, is there anything else you'd want the listeners to know about your bio and kind of your journey to CCM other than the things that we talked about? Is there anything else you'd want to kind of throw in there about you?

[6:44] Rachel Stevens: Oh, gosh. Sure. I mean, I think that's a great snapshot. I would say post-grad school, a lot of my work, yes, in New York regionally, but also in new play development. It's something I'm super passionate about and something that I've actually brought to CCM in partnership with Vincent DeGeorge, who is the head of musical theater, who is also quite passionate about this and brought me into the fold in that work. So that's something that, you know, I've been doing quite a bit of and really enjoying.

[7:23] Charlie Murphy: What about your personal journey from, you know, BFA musical theater? I sort of assume we're thinking as a performer, right? I would assume that at 22, you're thinking, I'm going to get out and perform. What about your personal journey that sort of led to more directing? How did that transition happen for you?

[7:35] Rachel Stevens: Oh, absolutely. So I went to Point Park University, which, as you said, which is a conservatory, just like CCM. And at the time, you know, there weren't as many as there are. There's such a robust program there now to be a multi-hyphenate within a conservatory structure, which is also the way that we are functioning at CCM, which I'm excited to get into. But when I was a musical theater major there, I learned pretty quickly on that I was interested in a multifaceted vision of what was going on on stage. Yes, I was curious about my journey as the character. Yes, I was curious about the storytelling as an individual. But I really thought about all the moving parts. I had the opportunity to direct in high school.

We actually, my brother founded a class at our high school. He's also a playwright, director, actor, and former MPCA coach, father of three. And he had founded this class. So I had the opportunity to direct a couple of shows in high school. I think the first show I ever directed was Little Shop of Horrors. And I made the plant into like about mob mentality with scarves, something something funky and, you know, explorative like that.

[8:51] Charlie Murphy: Genius.

[8:52] Rachel Stevens: Right. And so then I got to college and I was so fascinated by what it meant to be behind the table, especially as a fem human behind the table. There was a time, not particularly at my institution, but where I was seeing in my peers, what I was seeing in the industry, specifically with them, individuals feeling that they needed to function a certain way, look a certain way, behave a certain way. And I found it a responsibility from other mentors that I had as professors to be like, oh, I get to be a culture builder as well as a director if I go behind the table. And so any time I wasn't cast, I was assistant directing. I sister and directed mainstage productions at Point Park. And then I when I went to showcase, I was very fortunate.

I got to go to L.A. and New York with showcase. And I ended up getting an apprenticeship in education in Bethesda, Maryland. And I chose that something in my soul told me that I wasn't ready yet to commit fully to a life as a performer. I knew I didn't want to let that go. But there was something I needed to continue to explore. And from there, I really started. It started to snowball. I was acting. I was directing. I was devising and then eventually decided to get my graduate degree in directing because I wanted to really focus in on that discipline. And being a musical theater major actually gave me the tools I really needed to be an actor's director, to think rhythmically, to think about, you know, composition, to think about musicality.

It just led me in the right direction. And I knew I wanted to go to grad school because I knew I wanted to be in higher ed eventually, too. So all of it just kind of was building blocks in my journey.

[10:43] Charlie Murphy: No, thank you for taking us on that journey. And I wanted to highlight that, especially for our listeners who do listen to all the episodes. I believe in the order. This will either be right before or right after our Eric Tucker episode. We talked about Eric Tucker is the head of Bedlam Theater Company, and he talked about his journey toward directing where he still acts in all the shows and he got an MFA in acting. Didn't necessarily know quite as early, hey, I want to be a director. And I just want to highlight that in terms of that's not the only path toward directing. But sometimes people do know a little early on in exploring that multi-hyphenate a little earlier in their life and career.

So thank you for taking us down that path. Let's get into CCM a little. Let's start off with kind of your year in review, first impressions of kind of a CCM snapshot. So obviously in your capacity with MDCA, having taught at different universities, you've got a sense of these different programs. What would you say your impression is after a year of like what distinguishes a CCM student? And let's say currently, what distinguishes in a current version, how is the student body kind of different from other programs?

[11:30] Rachel Stevens: You know, when I was auditioning for schools, you know, you think about the legacy of a program, right? You think about statistics with a program and, you know, CCM is the first conservatory in the country. The National Association of Schools of Theater, NAST, like the accrediting board basically used our curriculum to define accreditation for schools, for musical theater programs and drama programs. Like this is a big legacy and a big reputation and a conservatory structure. And so coming into it, I was like, wow, this is a really old institution. This has got a lot of, you know, it's got a long track record. And I frankly was not sure what I was going to find. I had a really fantastic and energized interview with our current head, Vincent DeGeorge.

And when I got there, the thing that I recognized more than anything was I had not encountered yet the combination of rigor, hunger and heart in a student body because, you know, we are a conservatory. There is, you know, it's a really robust and intense program. But I think the current standing is that our students are so they're just rich with love and adoration and compassion for one another. They're as hungry for the work as they are kind to each other. And I think, you know, in such a rigorous program with such a reputation and such a legacy, you might expect it not to be this way, that, you know, there might have been in days of the past and just in conservatories in general, a thought of, oh, it's, you know, sort of trade.

There might be some cutthroat going on. And I think where there's competition, it's in within oneself to better their artistry, their instrument, not with each other. They are so deeply kind and thoughtful and and just really game to play. And so I think what sets, you know, what I've experienced at CCM is, yes, the technique has always been strong. Yes, the curriculum has always been strong. Yes, we're on a national stage. But I think the big difference that I'm seeing that was such an incredible surprise and something that's made me fall in love with the school is that the faculty are excited and energized about progression and about rebuilding. And our students are hungry for a multi hyphenate experience within a conservatory structure. And that's really special.

[14:29] Charlie Murphy: Well, I'm excited to get into some of the specifics. It sounds like I like rigor, hunger and heart. Is that on a is that on a banner somewhere? That's really.

[14:32] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we're diving into Act 2 with Rachel Stevens from CCM. Rachel, it's great to have you here.

[14:42] Rachel Stevens: Thanks for having me, Charlie! I'm excited to continue our conversation about CCM.

[15:02] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely! So, let's talk about collaboration between classes. How does that work at CCM?

[15:22] Rachel Stevens: Collaboration is a huge part of our curriculum. We encourage students to work across disciplines, whether it's acting, singing, or dancing. This cross-pollination helps them develop a more holistic understanding of musical theatre.

[15:42] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. Have there been any recent shifts in the curriculum that you think are particularly noteworthy?

[16:02] Rachel Stevens: Yes, we've made some significant changes recently. We've integrated more contemporary works into our training, which reflects the current landscape of musical theatre. This allows students to engage with material that resonates with today's audiences.

[16:22] Charlie Murphy: That's really important. What are some common audition mistakes you see from students?

[16:42] Rachel Stevens: One of the biggest mistakes is not being prepared for the specific requirements of each audition. Students often come in with a one-size-fits-all approach, but it's crucial to tailor their material to the school and the program they're auditioning for.

[17:02] Charlie Murphy: Great point. How does the culture of CCM affect the training students receive?

[17:22] Rachel Stevens: The culture at CCM is very collaborative and supportive. We foster an environment where students feel safe to take risks and explore their artistry. This kind of atmosphere is essential for their growth as performers.

[17:42] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a nurturing space. What advice would you give to students preparing for their college auditions?

[18:02] Rachel Stevens: My biggest piece of advice is to be authentic. Students should choose material that truly represents who they are as artists. It's important to connect with the material on a personal level.

[18:22] Charlie Murphy: That's such valuable advice. Thank you, Rachel, for sharing your insights today.

[18:42] Rachel Stevens: Thank you, Charlie! I'm looking forward to seeing how these students grow and succeed in their auditions.

[19:02] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[19:22] Rachel Stevens: Yes, we'd love to hear from you!

[19:42] Charlie Murphy: Don't forget to check out CCM Act 1 with Eric Santagata for more insights into the program.

[20:02] Rachel Stevens: It's a great episode, and Eric has a lot of valuable information to share.

[20:22] Charlie Murphy: Thanks again, Rachel. Until next time, everyone!

[30:35] Rachel Stevens: Our musical theater actors that we have just graduated walked away with that. It's a big change. To be clear, when I say old, I mean the seven-year-old people who were talking about it. I don't mean that that's what people think three years ago, or anyone current would say, oh, this is what it is. They might. That's the thing, too. When you have a program as old as CCM's and as prestigious as a CCM, as a Carnegie Mellon, as you're speaking to, there is rhetoric and there is narrative, right? It's out there because it has such longevity on a national scale. It's hard to rebrand Coke. It's hard to rebrand. Everyone's got an opinion about Coke already. It's hard to be like, well, it's a new Coke.

It's a new Pepsi or whatever. And that's fair. It's totally fair. You've mentioned falling in love with the university. What is your impression of the broader university in terms of what students get and what maybe you get from the experience of the school beyond the theater program? What is your impression of CCM as a school?

[31:39] Rachel Stevens: What I think is so fascinating about CCM is when folks are looking at CCM Musical Theater, they think that CCM is like College Conservatory Musical Theater or something, but it's College Conservatory of Music. There are 120 majors in CCM. Musical theater is one of them. So our students are immersed in so many opportunities to go to the opera, in the dance department, in the film department, theater arts management. We have students who just graduated with business minors. So there's so much going on. One of my favorite things about going to work is I park at a garage. I have a ticket right now where I'm in the queue to get to a closer garage, but I'm a little farther away right now as a new professor.

I was like, no. No, no, no. I don't have a ticket. Take care of that immediately. No, what I mean is I'm in the queue to get a parking spot at the CCM garage, which is coveted. Right now I'm a little further away. But because of my far walk, where CCM Village, as we call it, is, it's a little cul-de-sac where all the CCM buildings are. You walk by the soccer field and you walk by the football stadium. And you're seeing folks, students, having scrimmages in the morning or just hanging out. And then you walk by the music building and I hear music coming from the practice rooms every morning. Not necessarily singing, but instrumentalists. And it is so vibrant. And then one of my favorite spaces at CCM actually is DVAC, which is one of our big dance studios where we do our big musicals.

And a lot of our dance classes overlooks the football stadium. So when you come in, it really, and our students really enjoy all of these things. And I went to Point Park, which is downtown. And so it was very much a city school that I didn't really get immersed in college culture so much. We were sort of isolated from that. And I chose that. I don't feel that way at UC. Like I feel like I'm on a college campus. And I think the students that go there really love that feeling.

[33:51] Charlie Murphy: Totally makes sense. All right. You have to keep us up to date on the ticket queue and see what, you know, maybe.

[33:56] Rachel Stevens: Apparently sometimes it can take years, years.

[33:59] Charlie Murphy: You're going to make it. I believe in you. I think you're going to get that spot. Let's talk about the audition tour where I was, had the pleasure of running into you. You know, we're going to talk about some audition advice stuff a little bit more after the break, but I just kind of want to hear like, what was your experience doing this first audition tour? You know, what kind of students did you see? What kind of students do you feel like you ultimately attracted to attend CCM? Because now, you know, most of these final decisions are in, though. I know it's been a little bit of a prolongated process this time. Prolongated, probably prolonged.

[34:27] Rachel Stevens: Prolonged, I think it's time. Prolonged feels like an amalgam of words, but we'll live with it. We'll leave it in. Yeah. But so what, who did you see? Tell me what that experience was in your first year doing it.

[34:38] Rachel Stevens: Well, Charlie, I had been to the New York Unifieds, but I'd never been to Chicago. And walking into that ballroom where all these families are eating and chatting and hanging out that lobby area in Chicago. Musical theater camp. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. And I never went to like musical theater camp as a kid, right? I didn't, I didn't do that. And I also didn't have Unified. I mean, I did them as an MTC coach, but I didn't go to Chicago. And I had gone to Atlanta, a smaller Unified last year with Oakland. So this was my first time in Chicago. And I was astounded just like at the energy in that space. I think to myself, if I were a student now, I'm like, would I have handled it as well as these students are handling this?

Like it is so, I mean, I was like an introvert that got on stage and felt I could come alive. I was not necessarily a very, very social in audition moments. And so watching how these students were interacting joyfully, also networking with each other, hanging out, all the parents. I mean, I was floored and it was, it was a ton of fun. I think, you know, what was really important to us in Chicago, I was there with a fellow professor Chas Wilcott, and we really wanted to establish a room that represented CCM. So in the dance warmup, it was super joyful and fun and silly. We did a meditation. We did sort of like a vision exercise to like focus on your why. We tried to really showcase like how playful and silly we are, but also when we get down to business, we know what we're doing and we really partner with you.

And I think the students that I saw, the majority of students that I saw really just came in so confident and grounded and excited to tell their stories. They showed up prepared. It was really such a joy. I think the students that we really gravitated to were the ones who were clear and confident, but not necessarily so polished that we couldn't see who they were through their work. That was really valuable to us, especially asking questions was a big part of it. Yes, it's the material choice. You know, I think we were also super attracted to students who were malleable. We love to give adjustments if we have time and just be like, hey, try this on. And seeing students who would get excited about those shifts and try something new, students who were rehearsed but not choreographed in their work.

And also, you know, in our incoming freshman class, there's an array of students in terms of some folks have had training for years and years and years. Some folks are raw talent who just come in with such an energy and an excitability. But what we look for in those audition rooms are confident, clear, grounded, playful, curious, but not like over rehearsed. Right. I don't want you to play at something. I want you to play with something. And you can see that. And when you talk about interview questions and you mentioned adjustments that you'll give, you'll throw things at them. Do you when you say the questions, you mean the questions that you ask and how they answer them? Or do you mean the questions that they bring into the room?

I think both. You know, sometimes, you know, I learned very early at Unified. It's so crunched that sometimes them having questions, I would try to do that in our beginning seminar moment. I had my learning curve on how to run that room. And I think I learned a lot. But we would ask at least one question, right, just to hear students talk about themselves and how they answer. And, you know, and often more often than not, you know, yes, it's really important to know that a student has done their research on the school that they're coming in for. But I'm super curious about, you know, what really in their heart of hearts attracts them to us and then to expand on that. And also just even just anecdotally, I would ask them just silly things like, oh, it says you do this impression or you have four sisters or, you know, you like to play music.

Like I want to know who these people are that, you know, because they're auditioning us as well as we're auditioning them. And I want to know if we want to spend four years together. So that's a big part of it.

[39:13] Charlie Murphy: So well said. And, you know, I think it's one of the ways I think CCM is smarter. You were smart to sort of shift into recognizing how much of this has become the pitch from you as well as the audition from them at the unified level. I think that's one of the ways it's, you know, 20 years ago, everyone would go to these schools for the bigger name schools. They felt like, you know what, I'll pitch you later. Let's audition you now. And then I'll put you later. It's now some students ago. I'm not going to give CCM a chance if I didn't have a good experience in the room. I'm going to go to school that had a great experience with me.

[39:44] Rachel Stevens: I mean, that's right. Every interaction you have with a student matters. And, you know, and I think because of the way that the culture is at CCM that I've just really fallen in love with in terms of our heart and compassion and want for individuals, we also have a responsibility to show who we are. We can't be automatons in an audition room who are strict and severe. You know, that's not who we are. That's not how we operate. But we can be playful and disciplined at the same time. Right. You can do both. And it changes the power dynamic in a positive way to me. This is a two way date. We're both I have to say yes to that, too. I mean, that's not me sitting back behind a curtain saying good, bad, bad, good.

No. And I don't think most schools operate that operate that way at all anymore. But I will say, you know, I really and I had such great experiences meeting other new colleagues and seeing students come in and out of rooms. I mean, we're all in this together. Every any school a student chooses is going to be the right school for them. And and and every program in the country wants to do something wonderful for their students. It's just where they want to go. And so I think it's a school like CCM that might have had that reputation. We do have a responsibility to share who we are in a different way.

[40:59] Charlie Murphy: Totally. Well, and how do you as you lean toward that ultimate? Yes. Right. You landed up with some yeses and some waitlists and some people who were knows these are already people past the prescreens. So they've already someone you're interested in potentially. Yeah. But how are you thinking about, you know, that combination of raw talent of this person is so good or refined talent, I guess, just just the level of skill that you're seeing versus that conversation of God, that's an interesting point of view or I really like that person. How do you kind of put those factors into a into the kitty before you end up with your final yes or your final waitlist or your final no?

[41:37] Rachel Stevens: Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, this is my first year with CCM. So it's different with every school. But, you know, what I was really excited about when we were sitting around and talking about these individuals, you know, so first there's the logistics, which is we'd really love to have, you know, a certain number of of bases of tenors, you know, of mezzos of sops, like we really want to make sure that we have a balanced as much as we can, a balanced cohort when we're thinking about shows we're going to be doing when we're thinking about voice types and kinds of actors that we want to nurture and having a room together to learn from one another. Right. You don't necessarily want an entire cohort of folks who are, you know, necessarily like mezzo mix belters or whatever.

Right. Like, yes, like you could, but they're not necessarily going to feed from each other as well as a diverse vocal community. Right. So that's a big logistic thing that we look at in terms of talent. I mean, you know, the thing is, is it really comes down to when we're putting a class together, at least this class and talking about our current classes, we're looking at, yes, do they have talent, whether it's raw or whether it's refined. But like, is this group of people going to balance one another? Like, is this group of people going to really feel like, oh, I can see this as a unit, whether they're best friends or not. I mean, in a conservatory, they're in acting together, they're in vocal coaching.

I mean, they're in all of their core classes and they move as a unit. We've you know, we can't predict the future, but we're looking for is this person like curious? Did we see that they were generous? Do they seem kind? Are they are they hungry to work? Right. And having a sort of a balance of impressions, that's one piece of it, the sort of positionality piece of it, the point of view piece of it. And then when it comes to, you know, I guess talent, I don't want to say level, because it's

[44:37] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, and today we continue our deep dive into the College Conservatory of Music, or CCM, with Rachel Stevens. Rachel is a Visiting Assistant Professor of Acting in Musical Theatre at CCM and a former MTCA coach. Rachel, it's great to have you back on the podcast.

[45:07] Rachel Stevens: Thanks, Charlie! I'm excited to be here and continue our conversation about CCM.

[45:27] Charlie Murphy: Last time we talked about the overall culture at CCM and how it shapes the students. Can you share more about the collaboration between classes and how that enhances the learning experience?

[45:47] Rachel Stevens: Absolutely! Collaboration is a huge part of our curriculum. We encourage students to work together across different disciplines, whether it's acting, music, or dance. This not only helps them develop their skills but also fosters a sense of community. For instance, actors might work with musicians to understand how to better connect with the music they’re performing, and vice versa. It’s all about creating a holistic training environment.

[46:07] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. Are there any recent curriculum shifts that you've implemented at CCM that you think are particularly beneficial for students?

[46:27] Rachel Stevens: Yes, we've made some significant shifts recently. One of the biggest changes is incorporating more real-world experiences into the curriculum. We want students to not only learn the craft but also understand the industry they are entering. This includes workshops with industry professionals, masterclasses, and even opportunities to perform in professional settings. We believe this prepares them much better for life after graduation.

[46:47] Charlie Murphy: That's a great approach. What are some common audition mistakes that you see students making, and how can they avoid them?

[47:07] Rachel Stevens: One common mistake is not being fully prepared. Students often underestimate the importance of practicing their material and understanding the context of the pieces they choose. Another mistake is not tailoring their audition to the specific program or role they are auditioning for. It's crucial for them to do their research and show how they fit into the school's culture and values.

[47:27] Charlie Murphy: Those are valuable insights. How does the culture of CCM affect the training that students receive?

[47:47] Rachel Stevens: The culture at CCM is very supportive and collaborative, which really enhances the training. Students are encouraged to take risks and explore their creativity without fear of judgment. This environment allows them to grow as artists and individuals. We also emphasize the importance of feedback and constructive criticism, which helps them develop resilience and adaptability.

[48:07] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a nurturing environment. For students looking to apply to CCM, what advice would you give them to stand out during the audition process?

[48:27] Rachel Stevens: My biggest piece of advice is to be authentic. We want to see the real you in your audition. Choose material that resonates with you personally and showcases your unique talents. Also, don't be afraid to show your personality during the audition. Remember, we’re not just looking for the best singer or dancer; we want to see who you are as an artist.

[48:47] Charlie Murphy: That's excellent advice, Rachel. Thank you for sharing your insights today. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up?

[49:07] Rachel Stevens: Just that I encourage all prospective students to really take the time to explore their options and find the program that feels like the best fit for them. The college audition process can be daunting, but it's also an exciting opportunity for growth and discovery.

[49:27] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, Rachel. It's always a pleasure to have you on the podcast. For our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com. And don't forget to check out CCM Act 1 with Eric Santagata for more insights into the program.

[49:47] Rachel Stevens: Thanks, Charlie! Looking forward to our next conversation.

[50:07] Charlie Murphy: Until next time, keep exploring your passion for the arts!

[58:10] Rachel Stevens: What's happening here? I think the thing that I brought with me from MTCA that I loved so much when we were initially trained as coaches was an inventory of questions to ask our students to help them build their initial interest in material. In fact, we had a student at CCM who didn't tell me until she almost graduated this year that I was her coach before I left MTCA. She was like, you were my coach for like three weeks, and you helped me pick my material and did that questionnaire. And I was like, why didn't you tell me I've had you in class all year? Why didn't you remember, Rachel? How dare you? I'm always like, well, you're my student. Do I know you from somewhere? I know. It was literally when I was transitioning out of and going into higher ed.

And she was like, truly, it was moments. But still, I have taken those questions, and not necessarily those questions, but the idea of a personal inventory around point of view and storytelling and interest into everything I do in class. It's a little microcosm that we do with monologue coaching of what a larger classroom looks like. I love it. It's such a fun thing. We've talked about it with a couple of professors on this podcast, too, of just what it is to do artistic exploration. Because when a 17-year-old comes and goes, I don't know how to find a monologue, I don't think it's just like they know plays exist. It's not like they don't know how to. But it's sort of like, I don't even know where to start.

When you talk about what is a rubric for like, how do I explore what I might want to bring into the room? How do I explore who I am as an artist? Those conversations start off really broad and kind of difficult. And then once you start getting into them, they get fun and interesting. And people go, oh, I actually do have opinions. I do have point of view. And you go, oh, we're discovering who you are as an artist. That's my thing that we do, yeah.

[1:00:02] Rachel Stevens: I also think that's one of the really special things about MTCA and about having a partner in the audition process. Not to be like super, you know, yes, I think so many students from MTCA like, you know, have those building blocks that you end up getting in higher ed later on because the coaches are so rigorous and so clear. But I think, you know, the best part of it is they're learning how to explore who they are as artists in a way like it's a little touch point before they're in college, which they might not have done when they're just doing musicals at their high school or plays at their high school to be like, oh, how do I read a play? How do I look for material? How do I know what speaks to me? That's not about I want to impress them, but I want to say something like that's such a special thing that you get with a coach.

[1:01:27] Rachel Stevens: Well, it's something I really, especially after a couple of years on the team, I was like, all right, this is now philosophically what I want us to be is laying that foundation that is useful for them for the future of their career because college is only four years too, you know, it's like then it is about what's the next four years and how does it keep going, you know, that like it doesn't want to be about like let's polish you up to fool you into a school and then they'll deal with you. It's like we're trying to lay the foundations that college can expand on and then the artists can continue to expand on 10 years, 20 years from then. All right, now we've just turned into an MTCA commercial, which we can do another 30 minutes.

[1:01:49] Charlie Murphy: Well, I loved it and I do. I love it. Let's talk about you mentioned the parents. So what about the parents from families you've worked with? And now, of course, you've gotten to interact with parents in the auditioning process from the other side. You know, what do you see when you talk about kind of parent advice as effective teamwork? What really works in a kind of supportive family environment versus is there anything that you've sort of witnessed and you go, this feels unhelpful? Where would you kind of advise the parents as they're working with their students?

[1:02:06] Rachel Stevens: You know, I think what I would say to parents and what my experience has been, I mean, I've had some incredible relationships with whole families as they're going through this process where it's such an open dialogue. And then I've also had experiences where parents are like, you know, if I'm paying this much money for an education in musical theater, they're going to go to ABC school that I know is on the map because what I know from what I've learned online or, you know, their reputation. And when they stick to that without really listening holistically to what their child is interested in or if a student is deadlocked on one institution and the parent doesn't approach it with like, well, let's keep an open mindset.

Let's see what you can explore. It really does not set you up for success because I think even, you know, we were talking about reputation and legacy with CCM. I mean, there's a lot of schools out there, you know, that have that legacy, that reputation. Oh, they have this many folks on Broadway. Oh, this. Oh, that. And parents, some parents will look at that and go, well, that's what I see on paper. That's what I see. That's statistically what this is. I know that that is the school. That's where we've got to aim our sights. Right. And I don't you know, yes, that's a part of it. But I think you've got to really what I would say to parents is beyond what you see in a brochure, what you see online, what you even see on other stages in terms of alumni experiencing the individual faculty that are working right now and the students who are there right now is what matters because a school can say you can say whatever you want on a brochure.

You can talk about values. You can talk about you can read a curriculum and you can even see it in its reputation with how folks are represented in the industry. But what really, really matters is when you're there, when you're visiting to not just ask what's happening in acting classes and extracurriculars and where they're going to live, but look at how the students are interacting with one another. Look at how the faculty are talking to the students. Look at what the community is, because for the most part, you know, I mean, every program is going to offer something fantastic and special and unique. What really sets one school apart from another for a student is the culture that they're stepping into to internalize the technique they're going to get.

And that, I think, is something that we've really got to hold on to. And it's great. I love that. I mean, it's great to have experience of alumni. And, you know, you say Ted Danson went to Carnegie Mellon. You're like, Ted Danson went to a very different school than what you'd be attending. I mean, that's a lot. But that's even true as a Ted Danson. That could be true of Josh Gad or pick any people, someone you go. That's not that long ago, but it's a lot of professors ago. It's all different professors than it was back then. So it is a different school. They really change. You've got to look at the community there now. Right. And what that means. And, you know, and I think for parents, too, I mean, it is such a hard thing having like 18 schools on a list, you know, and so and so arduous.

And I would also offer, you know, to parents, you know, for the most part, the students that are seeking coaching and going out for all these schools are already hard enough on themselves as it is that they've got the rigor to partner with them on, you know, as much multifaceted sort of, you know, like not a fixed mindset about where they're going to go, who they are or how they can take care of themselves in their process to be their cheerleader and to really listen is is the biggest job, I think.

[1:05:34] Charlie Murphy: I love it. All right. Here's your one chance to coach the coaches, Rachel. You did a little bit of it already, but I love it. So this is your one chance that I will accept feedback as an MTCA coach, but really also not speaking about MTCA specifically, necessarily, you know, when you've now seen some of the guidance that students are coming in with, whether that's from other coaches, or us, I'll take it if we need to, or high school teachers, you know, just in general, or people who aren't necessarily seeking professional guidance. You know, what is the kind of stuff that you feel like, I wish I didn't see them steered this way, you know, sort of where you see maybe educators steering students wrong in ways that make you go, oh, if they hadn't, if they hadn't taken this path, it would have been much easier for me to unwind, you know, what they're doing, what's it, you know, whether that's whatever material selection, what they wear into the room, and anything that that just goes on, you go, I don't think they're getting good advice. And I would, I would go in a different direction here.

[1:06:28] Rachel Stevens: Well, three, I'm going to say three things come to mind. I said one thing, Rachel, and I will do one. I wish that students would come in and treat the material like yes, know the source material and know what your given circumstances are. But treat the material as though you don't have to imitate, or you don't have to impress and show off that you can do it a certain way. Because that is what is expected. I just like, I saw so many tonight at eights, where it was like, I'm going to play anxious. And it's like, no play the story, I'm going to play the character, I'm going to be the beltress, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to do these things to show you my skills, as opposed or the character or the idea of, as opposed to, I'm going to really drop into the words. And, you know, I want to see something new, even if I've seen it a million times, because it's yours. And I think that a lot of students just really need to be given the permission to do that.

[1:07:29] Rachel Stevens: I think that's so well said. And, you know, I will speak up for bad coaches here, in that, like, I do think sometimes coaches may be more negligent coaches or educators, and it wouldn't have to be a coach, are sort of blamed with the shellacking that happens to material. And I would say often, the nerves shellack themselves, like students actually get kind of more so sometimes I'm like, because I feel so much of the work that I'm doing, if I'm in January and February is unvarnishing, taking the shellack off, because I'm going, the nerve going, that's, they feel like, okay, let me turn into a product. And we're going, nope, not quite. No, let yourself do that. Don't do that. Don't get choreographed.

Yeah. Not that there aren't bad coaches out there who are truly saying, lift your hand here and do, you know, show. But I think sometimes the experience is, oh, God, this person's coached within an inch of their life. And I go, actually, that person is nervous and coached themselves. They set the show at opening night, more than actually necessarily teacher said, don't ever make any changes now. Like, I think sometimes I just undo that. Yeah, keep that. And you go, now it's got to be that. And you go, I think sometimes that's the student going, I'm safe if I do this. If I do exactly what I did before, I'll just bring that in the room. That's my defense of bad coaches. And I would say too, if a student does do that, then you give them an adjustment and they do it again the same way, then you have your answer, right?

Which is like, okay, can you try this? Can you like throw away everything you've done and try it like this? And they're malleable and they can, then you know, if it's nerves or, you know, or coaching or whatever it is, and you can let go of that veneer. But I'm never interested in, you know, shiny veneer. I'm just, I don't think anybody is.

[1:09:07] Charlie Murphy: All right. Now I'm so curious. What were the other two? What were the other two?

[1:09:10] Rachel Stevens: I was going to say, I love when students dress as themselves, but I also think I don't necessarily respond when things are so casual that I don't see that you are, you're going to an event that you're excited for, that you want to look your best and nice for. Maybe not those dirty sneakers or like, you know, just, just something that's like, I'm here to work as me on a really good day is, is just valuable because it, it does make an impression about your care. And so that is something that I would say, be yourself, but on a day where you want to show up as your best self.

[1:09:48] Rachel Stevens: I love that. That's a great one. What about number three? Now we're two for two.

[1:09:51] Rachel Stevens: Number, number three, please do not act with me. I, meaning like, look at, I don't love when, I don't really like some, some folks like, oh, I was coached to do that. I don't see that as much, but I did see that a lot, you know, this year at Unifieds where folks would like, look at the coach at a certain moment or, or act with me through a monologue. And in doing that because, you know, it's really helpful when you're coaching to use a person to give and take and respond, but then I feel like I have to act with you and I can't watch you. And that's really hard.

[1:10:29] Charlie Murphy: Fantastic advice. I'm glad we did all three. Okay. Let's take a short break. And then we only have a couple more questions. We're going to wrap up back in a flash with Rachel.

[1:10:36] Charlie Murphy: We are back with Rachel Stevens, and we're going to end with just a little philosophy. You know, we've been talking about some of the sort of like year by year granular changes of CCM and some, some of the things you've been learning, but just kind of from your experience, teaching a few different places, from your professional experience, where do you kind of think on a broader scale theater education is going? We've talked a little bit about this and some of the ways that things are changing, but how's it going to be different 20 years from now than it is today?

[1:11:04] Rachel Stevens: Oh my goodness, Charlie. It could be 10 years if 20 is too far, but you know, it's like 20 years from now. How do you feel it changing? Because it is, I mean, you're talking about new professors at CCM, new professors everywhere. I mean, really we're seeing post COVID especially, there's an upsurge and a swell in a different tone that seems like it's coming into the colleges. How do you sort of see that affecting it 10 years down the line?

[1:11:30] Rachel Stevens: Yeah. Well, you know, I don't necessarily know 10 years down the line, but what I, but, you know, I, what I, what I'm seeing, you, you spoke to this earlier about the sort of pendulum swing where they're, you know, right after COVID I think, you know, students and the whole world, right? But students, especially going into a discipline that is about embodied empathy, really sensitive to the idea of taking risks, being brave, and actually like that sometimes it doesn't feel good when you're in a character's shoes. Like it doesn't, it's that, that you can be safe and supported in the space that you're in if, even if the character is experiencing something risky, right? That does it, that is not your own, right?

That you can use your imagination in a way that you transform and you're, it's okay actually to live in those shoes and kind of our honored responsibility to do so. And I think that, you know, not everybody decides to be an actor because it's really hard, right? To step into someone else's shoes, especially someone you may not like or identify with and find a reason to, you know, what you can tap into that you can play.

[1:13:43] Rachel Stevens: But also, and so I think now in our classrooms that we're starting to see is this shift where before it was, I just, I'm afraid to do those things. I do a lot of boundary and intimacy work, and the boundaries can be a really freeing thing if you accept that boundaries actually open you up to take risks. And that was something we weren't seeing. Now students are starting to recognize, oh, I can play make-believe and challenge myself in a way with an aesthetic distance where I am taught by my teachers to check in with, is this too close? To play with if it's a substitution. Is this imaginary thing going to take me somewhere I don't want to go? How do I de-roll and stop, right? Like what are those techniques around building what we can try to make a supported space for a brave space? And so that sort of challenge and excitement to try that rigor we were talking about, to like get in there and be in the muck of it all is coming back to us, I think, as we evolve and as we grow.

[1:14:49] Rachel Stevens: The ability for educators and for students to have a mutual trust that we all have best intent, that we are going to support, but our job is to like get into the nitty-gritty of the human condition and that we are partnering, not professing. That it's a looping effect in terms of education. I just have more, you know, I've had a longer battery. Like I've had more mileage in my car than you do. That doesn't mean that I know more than you do in certain moments, but sometimes it does. And so I think as we're moving forward in education, it's less about this is how the business is, kid, and you know, strap up your boots and go. It's a partnership where they can trust authority, they can trust who we are without a hierarchy that makes it a not safe space to really partner.

And that we're very conscious around content, reconstruction of content without throwing or canceling and letting ourselves examine where we were. We only know what we know until we know more and that we can revisit pieces and be progressive at the same time. In doing so, that actually is progressivism. And so we can partner more on that, and I think that is instrumental to creating artists for the future.

[1:16:21] Charlie Murphy: That is such a good answer. And I think very well articulated and kind of an exciting, optimistic version of an answer. I've heard different people say both off and on mic in terms of the ways that kids today and things like how they've changed. Some people talk about it very positively, some people more negatively, but just hearing that as a very positive and I think cogent description of how we keep shifting as a culture and, you know, sort of the roles that, you know, professors may shift and how the culture may change. It's really exciting. Um, I'd love to kind of hear about what do you think, you know, for yourself, sort of what do you think today's teenagers could learn from your 18-year-old self?

Let's maybe imagine yourself as a teenager now. Like what do you see? Like where, what were the positives and negatives of the two different sides of it? So where do you see like we go, hey, actually for me in conservatory where I was like this, this was really helpful. This was clear. I didn't have to deal with things like that. And then vice versa, where do you think, hey man, it would have really helpful for me having some more modern ideas or having some of the ideas of today if you're going to school today. So where do you see the advantage of 18-year-old Rachel and let's say 30-year-old Rachel?

[1:17:25] Rachel Stevens: Oh, thank you. Come on, the cameras looks 30-year-old, sure. So, well, I mean, I look back on my 18-year-old self and I can see myself so much in the students that I teach now in terms of their need to get it right now, that urgency. And I think the way that we are operating in education in musical theater now is knowing and recognizing that yes, in our industry, youth is a commodity. You got to book the room if you want to do those big flashy things right away. But to sustain a career in musical theater is about having a holistic understanding of your humanness, and that is, that happens in college. And if an 18-year-old Rachel was deeply anxious, wanted to be perfect, really had a hard time with criticism, mostly because I just wanted to get it right and I wanted to have it now.

And I made so many comparisons. The idea of an A-minus in a dance class would crush me, crush me. And I think I would kill for an A-minus in a dance class. I didn't know. I never, I never, I think I actually got a C once and I think I had a conniption.

[1:18:43] Rachel Stevens: Yeah, you know, that was my fault. I probably, yeah, anyway. But I look at my students now and I love that we are at a place where I can constantly remind them, hey, remember that you're a sophomore in college. Hey, remember that you're 18. Hey, remember how in process you're like, oh, well, but there are people my age booking Broadway shows and tours. Like yes, and they're still 18, right? And they're still figuring out how to do their laundry and cook for themselves and relationships and who they want to love in the world and how they want to express themselves. And that is all a part of what goes into being a person and therefore goes into your artistry. You've got to take care of that. And as an 18-year-old Rachel, you know, did not have the tools for that and also did not necessarily have the mentorship for that. Some mentors, yes, but it wasn't as, I guess, top of mind as it is now.

[1:19:41] Charlie Murphy: Rachel, what a great place to end it. If people want to find out more information on CCM or more information on you, what's the best way for someone to follow along?

[1:19:49] Rachel Stevens: Well, please feel free to email me at my CCM email if you want to find out more about CCM, which is rstevens5@ucmail.uc.edu. It's a very long email. Show notes, you can click it. But yeah, click it. They should click that. If you want to find out more about CCM, please, you can go to the CCM website. Also, you know, click on musical theater as your discipline. There's so much information there that is growing and evolving. And that's real. And then, you know, if you want to find about me, my website's on pause right now as I'm rebranding and rebuilding it, but it will be back.

[1:20:30] Charlie Murphy: You keep talking websites. Can I get a TikTok? Come on, I'm so bad with social media.

[1:20:36] Rachel Stevens: You really are. You really are. We're talking about what you learn from the kids. I'm an old millennial, okay? I try.

[1:20:42] Charlie Murphy: But while we're at it, follow me at @charmur7.

[1:20:51] Rachel Stevens: Yeah, thanks, Rachel. This was so fun. I really, really appreciate the chance to get to chat. Thank you.

[1:20:52] Charlie Murphy: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Isn't she fantastic? I mean, I remember her being so smart and well-spoken, but there's something about getting to see someone, you know, already in a different, more official capacity that is just so inspiring. Like I got to know this person, I know Rachel, but it was always in a more casual setting most of the time, whether it's after a mock or a meeting of MTCA coaches. And just getting to listen to her speak in her official capacity, it was really inspiring. I'm going to quote her to you right now, one of her many quotable moments from the episode. I thought she had so many where I was like, that's a put that on a bumper sticker. But I thought this one was a special gem amongst other gems.

You know, she was talking about differentiating programs and that you don't want to ask about the facts and figures of curriculum and housing and all that stuff. Instead, she says what really sets one school apart from another for a student is the culture they're stepping into to internalize the technique they're going to get.

[1:21:45] Charlie Murphy: Ain't that the truth? And you know, it's part of the inspiration for this podcast, actually, you know, because I always felt it's not just about whether acting one is on a Tuesday, Thursday, or on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday. That stuff's important in terms of the number of credit hours and all that kind of stuff, but it really is more about who are these people and do they feel like the fit for me? And that was part of the reason I was like, I want to start this podcast because I want you all to have a little window into who the people actually behind the table and who the people in those classrooms are going to be when you're making up your school list. So that was a big part of what we did this, and hearing Rachel say that and knowing she comes from MTCA, it's very beautiful to hear echoed back.

Yay and bravo to you, Rachel. And I'm also just going to take a second and bask in a moment that Rachel brought up when I was listening back at like brought tears to my eyes. She was talking about the question sheet she would use for students when she first met with them. You know, I have such vivid memories back in the salad days of MTCA in those early days of writing my very first version of an initial monologue questionnaire of what we're going to do in a monologue consult, which I would then go on to share with all of our new monologue coaches when they join the team. And I would invite them to make their own, you know, come up with your own questions, but just as an example, here's how my process works, which I'm sure Rachel really made it her own over the many years on the team.

You know, it is one of my favorite parts of what we do as well. I mean, Rachel said it's one of her favorite things, that idea of like helping explore the students' artistry, especially a 17, 18-year-old's artistry, you know, at that sort of like fertile age and how they want to represent themselves in the rooms. And then our ability to match those students to material, which hopefully helps them toward those goals. You know, and each coach, of course, does make that process their own, but I'll say I do have a great kind of personal pride in what that template has launched for so many coaches. I've seen many different versions of it now come back at me, almost sometimes unrecognizable. Then I was like, wait, that was my question.

I did have that one in there. And now to see it, you know, kind of wending its way into different colleges and kind of the ethos of so many different programs, it's really just, it's really personally fulfilling and it means a lot to me. So that was a nice moment for me to hear that that was so impactful on Rachel.

[1:23:47] Charlie Murphy: And last but not least, just to talk a little bit more about that shellacking Rachel brought up so smartly. You know, we've talked about in various episodes and I think I've made the point before that, you know, that idea like I think coaches sometimes are blamed for a shellac that they didn't actually put there, but they just didn't do an active enough job to help the student remove it. And I make that point not really to defend poor coaches. I mean, why would I do that? I don't really find the business of defending coaches who I don't think are doing a good job or educators who are being lazy. But for our students out there and anyone listening to recognize you are not necessarily free from shellacking just because you haven't sought out professional guidance and someone who would put it there, right?

Shellacking can and does happen all by itself and really all by itself because of your own nerves. In fact, I think truly expert guidance has to be about setting in place a process by which you can learn material that enables you to have truly in your body so that you can play freely. It's a few steps earlier in the process that this looseness has to be initiated as it's really difficult if you've been doing something the exact same way for six months to suddenly just be loose and change it up. Some students are able to do that and more power to them, but most students are helped by finding that looseness early and often throughout the process. You know, the same thing happens in a professional rehearsal room.

If something is really working, you don't just drill it and drill and drill it. You keep playing and discovering so that you have a world of good possibilities and not just that one result that you're trying to replicate. We've talked before about that idea of like replicating results, you know, and we've talked about this concept in general on a number of different artists' episodes in different ways, but I know you don't all listen to all the artists' episodes, so I want to make sure I bring it up here. I do think it is a really important point for students to hear to avoid that polished or stuck feeling. You can't just say I'm safe because somebody didn't polish it for me, nor can you always just at the last minute tell yourself, well, just mix it up now, right?

Again, that can be much easier said than done to just mix it up after you've been drilling it the same way. And again, you want to establish a way of working that promotes freedom and discovery early in the process, and then it just becomes about a continual rehearsal process as opposed to a finished product. Especially in this process where you're auditioning for school, it really never wants to be set the way you would maybe in a professional production. Or some things do need to be set for timing and light cues and those kind of things, even though as you work more and more on something, it definitely may start to groove itself into a more narrow range of outcomes. You know, of the first possibilities when you walk in the room, you might go, I kind of have an idea of what it's going to do.

But even that, if you're able to hold that loosely, it just makes it so much easier to mix it up when you're then given that direction, which Rachel says we're going, hey, let's mix it up. And here's an adjustment.

[1:26:18] Charlie Murphy: Alright, that's it. Another season of Mapping the College Audition is in the books. This one lovingly produced by Meghan Cordier. Congrats to you on your first year of successful teaching and Kelly Prendergast. Congrats to you on your first year of successful touring with Shrek and your new promotion to playing Fiona. Let's go, Kelly! I hope you all are having a wonderful summer. Please do take these few weeks to write us a beautiful rating and review on your podcast platform of choice, to follow us on Instagram at Mapping the College Audition, and to check us out at mtca.com for all of your individual coaching needs throughout this process. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, don't we all believe that Rachel deserves the best parking space or at least a less complicated email address? We'll see you next season.