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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today, we have got Lauren Haughton Gillis from Florida State University on the show. For our newer listeners, this is another one of our college deep dive episodes where we try to explore the landscape of the college theatre world and demystify this daunting audition process one school at a time. And it's also another one of our Act II episodes, which we're going to talk about in this episode. For those who are interested in FSU specifically, you are welcome to listen to either episode in either order. So this could be Act I or Act II, depending how you do it.

We're going to recover some of the material from Lauren's perspectives. And you're going to hear perspective from both directors of the BFA program and the BM program, which Elisa Hauser is the director of the BM program. So we're going to get into those specifics of the BM versus the BFA in the episode itself, of course. But as you'll hear in the intro, this is an extra special episode for us, because Lauren is a former MTCA coach. So always great to kind of chop it up with a colleague in that way. And I will say, listening back in prep to this, I listened back to the Elisa Hauser episode. I am giving you sultry tones in that intro, hopefully a little more sultry than I'm giving you now, where I'm trying to give you a little bit more of my authentic, real voice.

I don't know, it sounds like I'm like whispering into the microphone and really doing MTCA after dark. Maybe like Solveig was like asleep in the next room or something. I don't know. I hope none of you have to endure the torture of watching back old audition tapes in this way, which especially early on in the podcasting, I watch back and I go, I was still really learning. A truly painful experience, but a good learning growth one, of course. But okay, I'm going to try to keep this intro a bit shorter because I'm actually recording this before leaving for Chicago Unified. But by the time you're hearing this, both Chicago and LA will be done when this episode is released. So I'm going to give that completely unnecessary caveat that if any musical theater emergencies happen in the next 10 days, they will go unaddressed on this podcast until the next episode, at least.

I will say to our juniors, we are so excited to see you at Junior Intensive, which is rapidly approaching, and to our seniors, please keep crushing it in these last few auditions. I know post-Unifieds is kind of an odd stretch. Some of our students are really done after Unified. Sometimes they'll have their last audition in Chicago or in LA. Some will still have a good handful of auditions, like one or two, and some have still a bunch left after Unifieds, right? But I also know it can be tough to keep up that momentum after the rush of Unifieds, the rush of doing audition, audition, audition. It's tough to keep up that energy sometimes in those last handful. So with knowing that, knowing there can be a bit of that air coming out of the balloon, I challenge you now, listening to this, pump it all the way up, right?

Bring in that energy. Let those last few really be a celebration of your amazing work that you've done to get this far, right? Every year, we have students who end up attending their first audition. You've heard examples of that. And then we have students who end up attending their last audition. So maybe that will be you, right? Let's treat each of them with that much respect that it could be you, right? Run through the tape, really soak up every bit of that experience. I'll just say in general, we often talk about after the audition process is over, but this is a really unique process in that it rarely, in your life after school, rarely will you have so much eager attention from all these amazing educators behind the table or just people behind the table, right?

It's hard to get auditions where people really want to dig in and interview you and give you adjustments and all that amazing stuff that you get to do. Not that that'll never happen again, but it's rare that it'll happen back to back to back and you'll get to do 20 in a month. Maybe you'll be the accepted of that, but most actors, they're like, man, I would kill for auditions like that, especially that happen again and where there is so much interest from behind the table. So really soak it up and enjoy it while it lasts and run through that tape. Also for our non-MTCA or our not yet MTCA brethren out there, don't forget our Meet MTCA workshop is tonight at 8 p.m. as this episode releases. That's 8 p.m. Eastern tonight on February 12th.

So if you're listening on your drive home from work, pull over, head over to our website at mtca.com and sign up. Then you can continue listening to this episode after the workshop is over. I mean, be safe with the pulling over and don't get in accidents, but do that, right? It's a great chance for you to meet me. It's a great chance for you to meet the team, get some information on the expectations of the college process for those who are not already working with us. And again, it's free tonight at 8 p.m. You can't beat free and immediate. It's happening now and it's free. All right, let's get to this special episode with Lauren Haughton Gillis from Florida State University.

[4:44] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to have Lauren Haughton Gillis on the podcast. Lauren is a BFA and MT from Syracuse and MFA and MT from SDSU, that's San Diego State University. As a performer, she's been on Broadway and Wicked. She's worked at the Old Globe. She's worked at the Goodman in Chicago. She's done directing, producing choreography for things like the national tours of Hamilton, Wicked, Beautiful, Book of Mormon. I could read many more. Previously, I've been an assistant professor of musical theater at Indiana University, where she won the 2022 Trustees Teaching Award before popping over to become the BFA director of music theater at Florida State University, which is still located in Tallahassee, Florida. They take classes of about eight to 10 MTs total. They offer degrees in BFA and BM. We'll talk about that a little bit, and a BFA in acting as well. Lauren, welcome on the pod. How are you doing today?

[5:44] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

[5:49] Charlie Murphy: We're so thrilled, too. Now, it's especially exciting for me, because not only are you representing a returning school after getting to chat with Elisa Hauser about the BM, not only are you representing a school which we just had an inclusive audition with, which we got to do this year, and we're really excited about that, but you're now joining a special guest, special sort of class of the pod, which is a podcast guest who's an alumni MTCA coach, having spent a few years on our dance team before you moved into the collegiate world. So, triple yay for us. I'll just say in general for our audience, this is another one of our Act Two episodes. I won't go into all the specifics that we hit in Elisa's episode, so please do check that episode out if you're interested as well as a compendium, but we're going to try to recover some of those basics and go a bit deeper as well into the BFA specifics.

But before we do all that on FSU, and here's my long intro, can we just do a quick catch-up with you on anything else you'd want the folks to know about you, Lauren, before we get into the FSU at all? So, any fun facts or sort of your journey to teaching?

[6:36] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, you got the bullet points of the bio. I think I did do the thing, right? And I think a lot of people are getting into higher ed that were performers for a very long time, so I think that's a strength of my teaching. It's also who Elisa Hauser is, who I run the program with. We were in New York doing the thing, and we had this calling. For me, I don't want to speak for Elisa completely, but I needed a new challenge. I was very, very lucky to be a part of Wicked for a very long time, and when you're a part of a show that lasts that long, which is so rare, I had new challenges and new kind of interests, and the spark and the excitement I had on stage was transferring to creating theater, to being a director choreographer, and to teaching in studio and in the classroom, and I would get on such a high from that.

Similar to when I used to be on stage, I started to transfer, so I had to follow that impulse and instinct, and that's why I'm here, because I want to be in service to the next generation. I want to try to guide them to be and to have a career in this amazing art form of music theater, musical theater, so yeah, that's why I'm here, because I followed my gut to teaching and to directing and choreographing, so I just feel blessed that that gut impulse and instinct has led to such an amazing job here at FSU. I feel very lucky to be here, that all my hard work did pay off, and there was a correct job for me at the right time, so.

[8:26] Charlie Murphy: I love it, and I love what you say, I did the thing. I mean, you really did multiple things already, so in terms of all the hyphens of directing and producing and choreography and acting and also now teaching, I mean, really, I think so many of our young students, and you know this having been an MTCA coach, so many of them talk about, I want to do many things, I don't just want to act, I want to act and do other things, whatever those slashes are going to be for you, you got to do a lot of those things, so that's really cool. We'll just throw in the little mea culpa that we do hear a little child in the background, you're not crazy, there's not someone crying on your microphone on your end, that is Lauren's child.

[9:10] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I'm sorry, yes, I did just have a baby in May, his name's Alistair, and he is right behind me, so I apologize, but I'm trying to do two things at once, be a mom and be a professor. Always a multi-hyphenate, always, even when just on a podcast, so maybe our listeners will get a little quick glance at some point on the video for those who are watching, but let's get into FSU a little bit. So, you know, in your experience, I know you're still newer to the job, so getting to know the landscape, but having taught at different places, having worked with different kinds of students, you know, what do you think distinguishes an FSU student? What makes someone feel like, hey, this is the kind of student that we tend to attract to Florida State?

[9:46] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Uh, you know, it's kind of overused, but it is truly like a triple threat experience, so the school or the program was founded in, like, 40 years ago, so you know this, Charlie, because you know a lot about a lot of programs, that is, that's an older program, musical theater is a newer kind of degree, right, like opera performance has been around, acting has been around, right, but musical theater is a newer degree, if you're talking about years and years and years, so FSU actually has been here a while, they've been existing, and what's so great about that is, we are really steeped in the College of Music, in, like, the dance spaces, there's an amazing BFA in dance here, they, all of my students take their technique classes at the School of Dance, you know, then they get all the amazing theater classes in the School of Theater, which is where I work, you know, my dance classes are very storytelling-based, style-based, and very musical theater, right, but they're getting their techniques from the technicians, so you are going to come out of this program a triple threat, and we are looking for triple threats, now does that mean that when you audition, we want you to be, like, polished in all three areas?

Absolutely not, that's why you're going to school, right, so we're looking for you to be strong in two, and we feel like you're going to graduate with feeling great in all three, so potential for, like, a triple threat performer, I would say.

[11:21] Charlie Murphy: So it's well said, and I think it's actually not as common as you think, I mean, I think maybe 20 years ago, many schools would have described themselves that way, a lot of schools don't, they shy away from talking about, hey, we really are strong in all three, or even breaking it down specifically into those three, I think partially because people are excited talking about some of the ooeyer, gooeyer, authentic artistry, and who you could be, and we don't need you to be good at everything, and in those ways, but so it's actually, I'm surprised how few schools will say, like, we really want you to be excellent at all three areas of musical theater, in some ways it's the same. I think by the time you graduate, and I talk to each, we do, we don't accept a cookie cutter, we aren't a cookie cutter program, but I would be wrong to say to someone, yeah, you don't really need to train and dance, the program is set up to take dance classes four times a week.

[12:13] Lauren Haughton Gillis: There are a surprising number of musical theater programs where they will say that, they'll say, oh, we'll take a dance class, but any body, any version of movement, it's all fine, even if you've never moved before, there is no dance as part of the audition, that is more and more common compared to where we were at 28.

[12:24] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, and I mean, looking at who we've called back this year, not everyone's, like, an amazing technician, or, you know, like, or not who we've called back, but who we've seen thus far, they don't need to be, like, competition dance, that's not what we're looking for, but it's just a fact that the training has a lot of dance in it, so, and I do go to the student, if you're admitted, if you're currently in the, you know, four-year experience, I go to them, and they're, like, I'm still feeling, like, not quite confident in my dancing, and I'm, like, so, when you leave here, are you going to be going in to sing first, and then go sides, and then dance, or do you want to dance first? Do you know? So, I just want them to feel good, everyone, almost every show on Broadway, you are going to have to do a movement element.

[13:14] Charlie Murphy: For sure.

[13:16] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Even if you're in the back, just, you know, giving a little shimmy, but you're doing something, you're not, you're not saying it's still. Harry Potter has a movement call, six, even to be in six, you have to do, I think, the dance calls first, so, I just want my students, if they're going to graduate and feel most strong as a singer, I want them to feel really confident as a strong singer to do a movement call, that's what I'm saying, I just want you to graduate, and be in singer spaces, and be just an excellent dancer in those singer spaces, and it's not like we're producing cookie cutters that, like, who can just, like, turn it out like a machine, that is not the case, everyone is a different human, everyone has a different, like, authentic performing personality, and we are going to come to them, but we just want them to be.

[14:06] Charlie Murphy: We don't want them to be in dance class four days a week and be bored.

[14:11] Lauren Haughton Gillis: And be bored. Yep. I love it. Um, well, before we get, I wanted to talk a little bit more of those curricular specifics. I love you're already talking about dance four days a week, but can you tell me a little bit just about the BFA and the BM of all, right? I know Elisa talked about that in her episode, but I think this is a unique enough program. It's worth just sort of explaining to our many students who will have this question of how does it work with the BFA versus the BM as we do this?

[14:30] Lauren Haughton Gillis: So the differences are you're going to take the big holistic difference as a BM music theater student, you are in the college of music. Um, you're going to take a ton of classes in the school of theater. You're going to be a part of the main stage productions at the school of theater, but ultimately you are getting a degree from the college of music. You are planning a recital your senior year, much like a voice student would. Does it need to be classical music? No, it's generally music theater repertoire from start to finish or pop songs or whatever they want to do. But that is a necessary item to graduate the school of theater BFA. You do not plan a recital. Yep. Um, the BFA you do crew work on main stage productions.

So many, many schools do this, right? Um, you perform all four years, you can audition all four years, but you also need to work on at least one crew. I believe costumes, scenic, et cetera. Um, you do not, if you're a BM, um, BMs take a lot more theory. Our BFAs take theory. They take plenty of theory, uh, per NAST requirements, but the BMs take a lot more. A lot of our BMs are composing, they're writing musicals. They're, uh, they play piano. They come to us, we have a violinist, you know, or, uh, so they're like a little more steeped in the music, right? They want more, they want more theory because they're writing songs. Um, and so our BFAs, some of them also play, I'm not saying that they don't like play instruments or what have you, but they, the focus of the curriculum is just a little different, right? You're going to take directing. Um, you're going to take a Shakespeare class. You're, you're going to take theory, but just like two semesters of it instead of four, perhaps.

[16:22] Charlie Murphy: And just to be clear, you're saying you'll take a Shakespeare class as a BFA, but not as a BM. It's not required. You can still fit it in. We have fitted in for both, right? There is room and it depends on what you come to us with. You know, if you come with some AP credits, if you've already taken some college courses, some, there's a little more wiggle room for people like that. People take summer courses, right? So I don't want to say there's just one way to do it. Um, there's flexibility, but the required courses are different in the, in the BFA. You're going to take a little more theater classes and the BM, you're going to take a few more music classes.

[17:00] Lauren Haughton Gillis: And one we haven't really talked about is how does it, the dance differs, the dance identical, or is it very similar in terms of the BFA versus the BM?

[17:04] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Similar. Very similar. Great. Um, and then for both of them, and we can talk about if this is distinguished between the two, but how, how much are we talking about academics? You mentioned if I have some, you know, AP credits or whatever and I can opt out of some classes. Great. But how much in terms of percentage of my day, how much am I spending on academics versus spending on theater, music, dance, whatever those artistic classes are?

[17:24] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Uh, I would say, so I work with someone, Michelle Diamante is incredible. A big reason I wanted this job when I interviewed and then I was so happy to take it because she is like the administrative entity. She guides our students, mentors our students through this day in and day out. She's available to them. She's done it for over 20 years. She works, she's at all the audition days with me. Um, and she makes sure that they take everything they need to take, anything they want to take. She facilitates that student by student in a personal way. Right. But it's very important because I am the artistic entity. I am the performer that lived in New York for 20 years. I need someone to be hand in hand with the students and making sure they get what they want and need out of their classes.

So I am going to answer in a very general way, but she would know the specifics on this, but, and this is why I'm so glad I can't be everything or do everything, but she is an incredible part of FSU. Um, but the way that it has been designed for 40 years is the first two years they do do a lot of their, um, academic courses, right? It's FSU. It's a state school. It's a conservatory within a kind of liberal arts kind of college education. So we do, they do have math. They do have these required courses. A lot of them are done, not all of them, not for every student, but I would say a lot of them, uh, they take in their freshman and sophomore year because the focus of junior and senior year is on getting into the industry is refining all those skills and, um, intersecting all three areas of singing, acting, and dance, right?

The intersection of the three happens primarily within the junior and senior year. There's this incredible thing that's been set up, um, class that's been set up called musical theater workshop. Um, all of the juniors and seniors are in that together.

[19:26] Lauren Haughton Gillis: And in the fall it is focused around acting and singing. It's taught by my colleague, Chari who is the head of MFA directing here. Um, she's a fine, fine director, acting professor. Oh, let's see him. She teaches the fall section of that. Hi. Say hello. Um, and I teach the, um, spring section of that. Yep. And it's focused in movement, but I also have shifted that a little bit in that, um, I, uh, I focus on auditions a lot and I focus on swing and understudy work. There's a small unit on that. That's a big part of my research and was a big my career. So hello. And that happens. So the focus is a little more towards musical theater the last two years. Now they're getting it the first two years, but we try to squeeze in their academics more there.

Yep. And you're talking about, I'd work with Michelle. Maybe if I want to get a specific minor or double major or something that's specific or going, I, this might come into the junior year. How does that work and how do I schedule that?

[21:02] Lauren Haughton Gillis: That would be more of that individual attention. Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's a dream in that way. And I, you know, I started in academia full time when I got my master's in 2018. So having someone who understands how the university works at large is paramount to my job and make, helps me be the artistic entity to the, to the students, which I think is what I'm here to do mostly. Um, yeah. And you mentioned, you know, of course you yourself, we know are really strong dancer, um, in terms of the world in this, the program I think is really known for having really strong dance training. How does that work with different levels of students as they come in, in terms of, I guess, leveling amongst the MT classes, but then also which kind of students would be taking more at the BFA dance level? And how does that work in terms of how individualized the dance training is versus how sort of everyone's taken the same?

[21:27] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Okay. So it's shifted a little since I got there. Um, I curated two classes, um, in my time at SDSU shout out. Um, I figured out what I wanted to do and curated a class that it takes place over two semesters. It's called musical theater dance styles. I think many places have something like it. Mine follows the history of musical theater and also the style of dance in America. So it's like, why do we see in Kiss Me Kate so much swing on stage? Oh, we study the swing era and kind of where things are coming from. And, you know, I had an amazing professor who was my mentor in dance who taught a lot of his stuff. He was an American dance machine, taught a lot of the, you know, choreography, choreography and the choreographers of the time.

But what I did in grad school was I really want the students to know why swing showed up on the Broadway stage. Why did kind of a feeling of Latin jazz show up on the Broadway stage in the fifties? Um, so we study kind of the, the, the street dance, the where it came from, um, a little bit, you know, we mostly dances, dance classes to dance, but I really like them to know kind of, um, the history of it all.

[23:07] Lauren Haughton Gillis: So the first section I go from the early 1900s to the 1950s and the second section I go from the 1950s till about two thousands. And then with the juniors and seniors, I kind of focus on present day, like everything from like wicked to present day. Um, so I really like to go through the entire Canon and be let in and talk about it. Um, I do that with all levels. So you get the first section in your sophomore year, musical theater styles one, you get the second section in your senior year musical theater styles two. And then in workshop, we work on auditions and more present day choreography. Um, I am able because I've had to at many institutions teach all levels in a space. So like if a combination has a, has a double turn, those that are doing singles can do singles.

Those that are doing triples can do triples and more. They want to do more. Um, you know, something can be a flick kick for one person and it can be a full-on batma for another in their face. Um, and I have adapted a lot of combos. So I'm able to kind of adjust depending on their level. Now their technique classes that they're taking at the school of dance are leveled. That's where you're, you come here and you're like a ballerina. You are going to test into a very high level of ballet and you're going to be surrounded by people who are at your level. If you're in a basic ballet and you've never, or you've never even set foot in a ballet studio, you're going to be in ballet one. And you're going to feel like you can grow at your pace, right? And that's the advantage of being at the school of dance.

[24:21] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Now in your sophomore year, if you come to us in advanced dancer and you want to test into the bat, like the dance major classes, this has never happened to anywhere else I've worked. You can audition and then someone at school of dance says, yes, we'd love for you to take some of our major classes. And in your junior and or senior year you are taking with the majors who graduate from here and do like very, you know, they do companies. It's a very different kind of track. Um, but we have to, and then you might graduate with a minor in dance as well. It necessarily means you're getting a minor. I think Michelle, you can, if you want to minor, but you're just able to take those classes. And I have seen some of our dancers dance alongside the BFA dance majors and they're, they, they dance exactly at the same level.

It's pretty incredible, you know? So it's not everyone either though. It's not everyone's interest to do that and to work hard in a dance way, but it's available. I think we have two that are doing it this semester and, and that's what they want. They really want to be pushed in that way.

[25:32] Charlie Murphy: So what about with the BFA actors, how does it work in terms of their ability to take musical theater class, whether it's dance, whether it's singing, how integrated are those programs in terms of, um, for the, the acting majors?

[25:44] Lauren Haughton Gillis: So I teach a movement class. It's, it's acting movement. It's very based in viewpoints and Bogart. Thank you. Um, I'm teaching the freshmen BFA acting majors as well as music theater majors. And, and, and my bread and butter is music theater, but no, I'm, I'm approaching it from a movement like standpoint, obviously, but they're in a space together and they're get, they, they get trained from me in certain courses. Um, now the acting majors, I mean, these BFAs are so intense and so planned. I don't normally have a class beyond movement with them. Um, but we are in the like stages of I'm bringing tap here. So the tap class will be open to BFA actors, BFA music theater, and BA is actually, we have a very strong BA population. Um, so the tap is going to be open to all three. Once we, I'm not gonna be able to teach the class for a few years, but, um, I'm excited about that and bringing that to the space, to the school of theater.

[26:51] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Um, and yeah, uh, I don't have them formally anywhere else. I do have a BA music theater workshop in the fall where I teach acting the song actually. And that's because our BAs are like, they're incredible. The talent in Florida, some of these magnet schools in Florida, the talent at the school of theater is incredible. So that's a possibility that they take acting the song with me BA music theater workshop.

[27:21] Charlie Murphy: How does that work with shows while they're talking about BAs or BFA actors or the BFAs and the BMs for musical theater or music theater? How does that combine in terms of the shows and who's auditioning and how casting works?

[27:31] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Anyone that goes to FSU can audition for the school of theater, main stage shows. Um, and all majors are involved and I really, uh, I really value that and think it's a strength of the program. I think the music theater students do do well. All of them get in a main stage show within their four year experience, usually more than one. Um, but they are, they're performing alongside people that are very different from them. And I think it's a real strength of the program. I don't think, although I run, you know, this, the BFA in music theater here, I don't think you need to major in music.

[28:13] Lauren Haughton Gillis: To do music theater, you know, it's not for everyone a training program like this, but I think it's really great that I think our BAs have been leads in the musicals. I think BFA actors have been in an impulse, and then I think there was like a science major last year in one of the shows. You know, like, yeah, totally what mirrors the real world. But that's certainly true in the real world that not only people would be a phase get cast in professional shows replicating the real world, which is an advantage. I love to talk a little bit about, you know, you mentioned sort of how you prepare students for the launch into the business, you know, in terms of those swing classes and some of those stuff, you know.

I'd love to hear a little more about that in terms of how they enter the professional world and how FSU supports them. I'd love to also just maybe especially zero in on what that means for students for whom dance is their strongest skill set. Something we talked a little bit about with Sarah Meal, who's on the podcast recently about like if dance is the thing that you lead within the room, how does that mean that you enter the business? I think it's gonna be a little bit opaque to people being like what is my dance reel look like and what is how do I get in shows if that's the thing that's strongest about me? So I guess I'm interested in general of the experience of how they're entering the business, but then also maybe especially zeroing in on those maybe those really strong dancers who take with the BFA dance and who are at that level.

[29:35] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, it's tricky. It's tricky and we are, I'll say this is a constant conversation because like my singular experience is one way and one thing, but we I would say this year experiencing the senior experience, we bring in a casting director who directs showcase, but he's so much more than that. He's like I was just on a zoom where he was giving them feedback about self tapes and yeah, like so specific and from a casting director point of view, like, yeah, of course I take them through self tapes, but I'm from an education point of view for sure. So it's really shifting this year to some business perspective and he is asking them, you know, and I do ask them too. I was like, so if you take an agent meeting, they're gonna ask you do you want to sing first or do you want to dance first?

And we do have some who are like I feel equal. Then it comes up, it comes to you really need to know the style of the show. You need to know who the choreographer is because I got to this too in my career. If I was going in for someone who was more a traditional jazz choreographer, I wanted to dance first. That's what I specialized in as a dancer, but then if it was hip-hop based, that was your sing first. Yeah, sing first. Yeah, it's not something I specialize in. It's something I will attempt and I will definitely try to do in a show, but it's not the first thing I want to present to the creative team. So I'm really putting it upon my students to know who's in the room, know what they do. A big assignment I do in their senior year is to research a current choreographer that's working.

Yeah, and like yesterday we got a presentation on Jennifer Webber. We've had Sonia Taya, like they do these huge PowerPoints and they have to explore and show the choreography and talk about it. So I, it's difficult, you know, you spend the four years exploring who you are and pushing the boundaries and challenging and playing characters outside of your type, if you will, and then by your senior year you have to kind of like understand how you're presenting yourself. And that's hard, but I think that's the questions you're gonna get from casting directors and agents and knowing what are the spaces you're most comfortable in essentially and you're gonna have to probably sing, act, and dance if you're trying to get in a musical, but it's like what do you want to do first?

So if they're more empowered and they've done the research on the show and the creative team, they'll know where they need to be. I think, yeah, I think you know, you research, research, research. That's a big reason to go to school is to like learn how to do that.

[32:20] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, well said. I'd love to hear just in terms of the Florida State experience beyond the School of Music or the School of Theater or the School of Dance, just sort of what is the experience for a Florida State University if I don't kind of know like what's that gonna feel like? Like what is my experience when we talk about campus opportunities, when you talk about the campus life? Like what is that experience of a Florida State student?

[32:41] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Well, it's a big school. There's like 40,000 some students, so we only accept close eight to ten students per year. There's only currently 33 in the music theater program right now. It's a drop in the ocean of the 40,000 to be one of the 33. Yeah, have that Larry like kind of one-on-one experience as well as I want to go to football games. I've been, I went to a basketball game with my family like a month ago. It was so fun, such a good night out. Just you can have, you can be in a sorority, you can be in a fraternity. Students are able to do that and I'm watching them do that gracefully. And yeah, it's not like everything, you know, like there's certain things that meet every day. Like I was looking like the Golden Girls, that's their name, the dance team that plays at all the games.

They're incredible. They're such good dancers, but they like rehearse every day. No, that's not gonna be an option for you if you're doing a show. Music theater students, I don't think I've ever really been able to do that. I'm not, I don't know exactly, but like, you know, someone asked us that the other day in an audition or like if the acapella group is so strong here and they need every day to rehearse. So it's just the reality of that. I want to say, yeah, maybe one semester you could, it's like it's difficult, let's say.

[34:07] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, you're talking to someone who tried to play for his college baseball team at one point and it was not possible, just could not happen. I was like, I'm gonna have at 6 a.m. It still can't do it. I can't make it work. Yeah. Clubs, you can be a part of anything. You name it, they have a club for it. There's just a wide variety of people going to school here and therefore there's groups if you want, if you want to be a part of them.

[34:29] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, totally. I'd love to talk a little bit about costs. You have this wonderful distinguishing in-state versus out-of-state tuition, which is really a large difference. Our crack research team has in-state at 11,000. That's much less than the out-of-state 37,000 number. I just love to talk about like basically how does it work in terms of what I could expect to pay? Maybe as an in-state tuition in terms of potential scholarships beyond that and then out-of-state person how I might be able to get that number down from 37,000.

[35:01] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I will say I can't, I don't want to talk numbers like specific numbers. It is almost always significantly less than both of the numbers you just said.

[35:07] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[35:13] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Does that primarily come from academics, primarily from talent-based money, from need? What sort of is the driver of that for the most cases?

[35:21] Lauren Haughton Gillis: A student, you know, if you're an honor student at FSU, there's a lot available to you as far as scholarships. It's a pretty prestigious state school. It's getting harder and harder to get in because there are advantages to like the in-state tuition and the state programming here for students that have really high academics. It can be essentially free to go to FSU. I don't want to speak like I know exactly, that's why Michelle exists. But yeah, it was a big motivator to come here. I would not have got through school. I had a single mother. I would not have graduated if I didn't have a lot of scholarship and a lot of help. So I don't know specifics, but I can say a lot of our students graduate with very low or no debt because there is a lot of help.

[36:19] Charlie Murphy: And does that mean when we talk about the breakdown of how many of your students end up coming from Florida, given that that disparity of cost? What percentage are we talking in terms of how many people you think come from the Florida area, especially maybe with the BFAs in the BMS?

[36:31] Lauren Haughton Gillis: It depends. I mean, I will say we have a lot from, there's not a lot of schools in the southeast that have a theater degree, but I would say it's hard. It's class to class. Maybe a fourth of our students are from Florida. We have a lot of Georgia too, but they don't get in-state obviously.

[36:44] Charlie Murphy: But means those Georgians must be successfully bartering down that tuition in some ways whether again with its academics to potentially bring that cost.

[37:04] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I will say, you know, I've worked at other schools, not full-time, but I've worked at a lot of schools and summer programs, etc. It's the least expensive school that I've ever worked at and that was a motivator. I don't, I really think as much as little loans as you can take out in an industry like music theater, I'm for it and I wanted to be a part of a program that has that in place. I will say FSU at-large has not raised their tuition in like 11 years, so that's like kind of a FSU thing and yeah, so it's affordable especially compared to a lot of programs out there.

[37:45] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Okay. My last question before we take a quick break is just okay now you've done this wonderful MTCA private audition. You've got lots of MTCA students who are gonna have lots of options including yours. What is your pitch to a student MTCA or not, but just a student who's coming, they're visiting, they're down to two or three schools, FSU is really high on their list. Why would you say here's why I think it should be FSU as opposed to another school?

[38:11] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I think you're gonna have four years with an incredibly supportive community, but you're equally going to be challenged. You're gonna be challenged at school to step up as a professional, you know, in your time here. You're going to be pushed and challenged in the way that you're gonna be pushed and challenged in the industry. So it's that intersection of community and professionalism I think this is the Florida State student and what we're striving to cultivate here.

[38:49] Charlie Murphy: Well said, okay. We'll take a short break on the back end. We'll talk a little bit about the admissions process. So back in a flash.

[39:00] Charlie Murphy: All right. We are back with the great Lauren Haughton Gillis. We were on the break talking a little bit of motherhood and the difficulties of the business with the child, which Lauren is making look so easy with a kid on her lap while she does this. But I'd love to talk a little bit about the audition process and maybe especially as we have not had that many professors who were talking specifically about dance. I'd love to talk specifically about dance, but then really of course holistically all of it of just like what makes a great audition for you. So what are you looking for in a student as you're seeing lots of talented kids? What makes you think, hey, that's a Florida State student and this one maybe less so?

[39:33] Lauren Haughton Gillis: In one sentence, I'm looking for someone who is joyful when they're dancing. So that is what I, and that is really a hard thing that, but like simply said joy through dance. Yeah, so then therefore when I center my like kind of when I center it around that, it's not leveled. It's not like, oh, they did this trick or they did this many turns, which is exciting, but that's essentially like that's technique, right? Those are elements. I think music theater dance is, yes, there is a high level of technique on Broadway right now, but you also have to storytell. You have to be a storyteller. So if I see that you're having fun and your dancing brings joy to you as a human being, I'm interested and I'm curious about training you because obviously something is going on inside of you where you have to dance.

Yeah, it's, it's that's also when I'm training students in programs when I feel like they have to come to class that day, they have to be in the studio, they have to dance and not all of my students end up being people who have to dance. That's fine, totally. It is a big part of being in the industry, but like that may not bring you supreme joy, but like I'm interested in seeing just an inkling of that when you're auditioning for me, whether that's me as a choreographer or me as a program director, you know.

[41:04] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I love that. I love that really across all three disciplines, but I love to ask and I want to open it up a little bit more to singing and acting too, but while we're on the dance of it all, you've been asking this question of a lot of professors because, you know, I think sometimes we go, oh this kid's talented, that kid's not talented or not talent, but we say this gets very more talented or whatever. And I'm not sure we always know what we mean when we say that. And especially I've been asking out of a lot of acting professors to be what really you mean by acting talent? I guess I'm interested in like when you see, when you're looking at a dancer and you're looking at something like capacity, you're looking at something like, hey, this person I think has a lot of potential to grow.

Like what are you looking for beyond the joy in terms of that will be someone who will grow? What are you looking for that goes this person has, I see talent, I see potential that I know with a little four years of work I can really make this person grow as a dancer? What does that look like for you?

[41:52] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Athleticism. I have trained a lot of male presenting dancers. No, not just male presenting. That's wrong. Female and male presenting dancers who have a lot of sports in their past in their history and sometimes I'm almost like, oh, have you danced for a while? And they're like, oh no, I just started a year ago and I'm like, and they're just coordinated in a way. Listen, I was not a sports person, but they know their body.

[42:48] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we’re diving deeper into Florida State University with Lauren Haughton Gillis.

[43:18] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Thanks for having me, Charlie. I’m excited to share more about our program.

[43:49] Charlie Murphy: Let’s start with the dance focus at FSU. Can you elaborate on that?

[44:14] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Absolutely. At FSU, we have a strong emphasis on dance, which is integral to our training. We believe that a solid foundation in dance enhances a performer’s versatility and marketability.

[44:34] Charlie Murphy: That makes a lot of sense. How do you incorporate that into the curriculum?

[44:54] Lauren Haughton Gillis: We offer a variety of dance classes, from ballet to jazz to contemporary. Students are encouraged to take as many dance classes as possible, and we also have opportunities for them to perform in dance showcases.

[45:14] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a comprehensive approach. What about the importance of research and preparation for students?

[45:42] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Research is crucial. We encourage our students to thoroughly research the schools they’re applying to, understand their programs, and prepare tailored materials for auditions. This preparation helps them stand out.

[46:10] Charlie Murphy: And how does that tie into the intersection of community and professionalism?

[46:38] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Great question! We foster a community where students support each other while also learning the importance of professionalism. This balance is essential as they transition into the industry.

[47:06] Charlie Murphy: That’s a valuable lesson. Can you share some examples of how you create that community?

[47:34] Lauren Haughton Gillis: We have mentorship programs, collaborative projects, and regular workshops that bring students together. These experiences help build relationships and a sense of belonging.

[48:02] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a nurturing environment. What advice would you give to prospective students looking at FSU?

[48:22] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I would advise them to be authentic in their auditions. We want to see their true selves and what they can bring to the table. Preparation is key, but so is being genuine.

[48:42] Charlie Murphy: That’s excellent advice. How can students best prepare for their auditions?

[49:12] Lauren Haughton Gillis: They should practice their material extensively, seek feedback, and stay informed about the latest trends in the industry. Also, visiting the campus can provide valuable insights.

[49:42] Charlie Murphy: Visiting the campus is a great tip. What else should students keep in mind during the audition process?

[50:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: They should remember that the audition is not just about showcasing talent; it’s also about connecting with the panel. Being personable can make a significant difference.

[50:38] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great point. How do you think the audition process has evolved over the years?

[51:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: The process has become more competitive, and there’s a greater emphasis on individuality. Schools are looking for unique voices and perspectives, which is exciting for students.

[51:38] Charlie Murphy: It really is. What trends are you noticing in the types of students applying to FSU?

[52:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: We’re seeing a diverse range of applicants with varied backgrounds and experiences. This diversity enriches our program and prepares students for the real world.

[52:38] Charlie Murphy: That’s fantastic to hear. What do you think sets FSU apart from other programs?

[53:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Our strong faculty connections and the emphasis on collaboration truly set us apart. We prioritize creating a supportive environment where students can thrive.

[53:38] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a wonderful place to grow as an artist. Any final thoughts for our listeners?

[54:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Just to remind everyone that the journey is just as important as the destination. Embrace the process and enjoy every moment.

[54:38] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, Lauren, for sharing your insights today. It’s been a pleasure.

[55:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Thank you, Charlie! I appreciate the opportunity to discuss our program.

[55:38] Charlie Murphy: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We hope you found this episode helpful as you navigate your college audition journey.

[56:08] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Good luck to everyone out there!

[56:24] Charlie Murphy: There's a lot of great ships out there I'm learning these days. I would scoop it up, save some money, pay off some debt, and it's a good jumping-off point to moving to Chicago or LA or New York. Yeah. It sounds a lot like what we used to talk about getting out of school going, I want to tour early because it's like, before I have a family, before whatever, you know, but it seems like that's a souped-up version of touring if you're getting the tour of the world and not just, you know, some random cities in the country.

[57:06] Charlie Murphy: All right. I promise I'd let you go. My last question could not be more appropriate to you is just to speak toward the parents in this process. We have a lot of parent listeners. And as what we watch you effortlessly parent, as you do this podcast, just, you know, from your experience, both, of course, you've got to work with parents directly with MTCA. I know you've done that in Indiana now with Florida State, you know, do you have any advice for parents as they're trying to support and help their children through this process? If they're listening to a podcast, likely they are directly helping their children with this process in some way. It's like, what advice would you have in terms of how they can be most helpful to their children as they sort of help support them?

[58:02] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yeah, I think the main thing is, thank you for letting them pursue this, because I think if that's in their heart, and then their gut, and that's their impulse, and you're supporting it, just by being curious, just by listening to this podcast, thank you. Because there are a lot of my friends when I was younger, whose parents said absolutely no, like, you cannot even entertain the idea of auditioning. And my mom, as a single mom said yes. And she took me to all those schools, like in back in 2000. It's like 10 to 12 schools all over the country. And so just a you're amazing for just supporting this. I think anyone who gets a music theater degree, all of my friends who went to many different programs are all doing incredible things, whether that's on stage or off stage, or there's some sort of speech going around that like hire a theater major, you know, because in this world where we're getting more and more dependent on computers, and working from home and people just kind of in their own spaces, I think just being able to communicate is becoming a special skill.

And I think that that's really important. And that's what a theater student that goes to university is going to be able to do, you know, you're going to be able to listen, react and respond. Like I said, I'm looking for an audition. And that's not always happening right now in the world. And so if they go to school for theater, they're going to graduate a better human hopefully. And yeah, I think if they if you're your kids willing to put in the hard work, they can do anything. I really I think, you know, rose-colored glasses, I have two kids now and, and life is not easy. But, you know, if you're going to get into this, and you are talented, and you're willing to work your butt off, I think you will succeed. Does that mean a Broadway show? Does that mean it looks different for everyone? Totally. And it changes, you know, but I think, let them go for it, if they're willing to put in that work.

[1:00:00] Charlie Murphy: Yep. Well, shout out and kudos to Lauren's mom and to Lauren as a mom. Has your child fallen asleep now during this period of time?

[1:00:05] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yes, a little food, a little sleep.

[1:00:08] Charlie Murphy: Your child joins the ranks of our own students who fall asleep listening to my voice, which is most of what this podcast is. It's just the people that all the kids like to tell me I fall asleep listening to you all the time. Like it's a compliment. It's not a compliment. Wake up, students wake up. If people want to check out more information on Florida State, where should they do that? Do we want social media? Do you want the website? What's the best way that they could check out more?

[1:00:30] Lauren Haughton Gillis: I think just go to the Florida State website. I think they just redid a lot. So it looks good to me. It's very clear. Alisa actually made kind of a diagram of the difference between the BM in music theater versus the BFA in music theater. So you can kind of look at that. That's very helpful. Pictures of past shows, etc. There is a musical theater FSU MT Instagram account. It is run by students. So I can't say that that's like university. But I would look at that because it really looks at the day in the life of a student that's going to our program.

[1:01:12] Charlie Murphy: We will tag that in this very post and in the show notes here so people can follow along there and go to the revamped website. Nobody loves anything as much as a revamped website. Kids are really excited to go to see those things. Lauren, I so appreciate the time today. Thank you for you. Thank you to Alistair. We really appreciate you making it work. Thank you.

[1:01:30] Lauren Haughton Gillis: Yes, yes, yes.

[1:01:31] Charlie Murphy: Not our first interview with multiple people in a screen, but is our first where one of those people was an infant. How fun. And like I told Lauren, it was so cool to kind of see her effortlessly juggling between both those responsibilities. And maybe I shouldn't say effortlessly, since clearly there is and was effort, but there was also excellence involved there, a real ableness. So, you know, managing both so comfortably and so beautifully was cool to see and hopefully an inspiration to those out there who are going, how do I make this work, you know, both with a child and with a career? And it's something I talk about my wife all the time. I think it is an inspiration when you see it work and difficult. And so we were glad to get to showcase a little bit of that. That was an accident. We weren't planning on doing that, but that's often how it happens with childcare. It's like, thanks.

[1:02:20] Charlie Murphy: One thing I wanted to make sure that I hit, because I noticed we may not have addressed this directly in the episode, but we did. For those who are listening in Act Two, you've already heard this with Elisa's episode, the Elisa Hauser episode, but it's just that idea of admission into Florida State. Whether you choose the BM or the BFA, it is one process and one cohort. So they don't care from an admissions perspective, at least Elisa and Lauren are not going to care which one you choose, but it will affect which school, which actual school, whether the school of music or the school of theater, that you're literally admitted to. But either way, you're part of that same eight to 10 cohort of the music theater major. You know, it's a really unique part of their program.

[1:03:05] Charlie Murphy: And we've talked about it before, where sometimes the MT degree is part of the school of music. Sometimes it's in the school of theater or the school of drama. Sometimes it's in its own school of music theater. That's rare, but that happens where there's literally a school of music theater. And sometimes it lives in that nether region between schools where it's going to pull from multiple different departments. And this is just a unique way of pulling off that kind of in-between life where it kind of is both, but it can be either. Some schools will make you choose and this school, they're going to let you have your choice.

[1:03:41] Charlie Murphy: I really also loved Lauren's comments on dance capacity. I thought that was really cool. Not necessarily anything completely new or novel there, right? But we haven't had that specific discussion yet on the show. I've talked about it with acting, but I haven't really talked about it. I was like, what is dance ability that goes beyond dance technique? Of course, we can recognize dance skill that's displayed, but what is dance ability or capacity? I thought Lauren gave a really good answer there. And I'm going to keep trying to ask these different schools about the different ways they use their pre-screen videos. I think it's a really helpful answer for you to get that insight and just how different it is from school to school.

[1:04:20] Charlie Murphy: That's something that I'm like, I know that, but I don't know if that's intuitive to you guys listening to it. So just to hear all the different ways, and it's not even a couple of different buckets, it's a bunch of different buckets, right? But I liked about how she talked about returning to the pre-screen dance video because their own combo, it might not be specific to your best style as your own video would be. So it's really helpful for them to see, okay, how do we do it, our combo, but then how do you do at your combo, right?

[1:04:50] Charlie Murphy: And I'll say in general, the idea of returning to the video, it's very common across the board as you've seen, but it's probably most common for the dance video, since it may be the element of the audition that is not as consistent from audition to audition, city to city at a unified audition, or like Lauren mentioned, you know, we're talking about the quality of a dance, a Zoom dance live audition, depending how your camera setup is, the quality might not be quite as strong. So it's really helpful to have that video, right? Very often at this time of year, our students are really glad to have a high-quality dance video. For instance, when they're doing walk-ins, if there's a school where they're able to attend the song monologue audition, but for whatever reason, their schedule, they're not able to attend the walk-in dance call, they can offer up their pre-screened video as a way of assessing their dance abilities, and a lot of students will do that, and a lot of schools will accept that, right?

[1:05:40] Charlie Murphy: And then also for schools that may not have a live dance call as a part of Unifieds, it's a great resource since, you know, maybe they'll send their own video of their own school's choreography, like Lauren said, but as she points out, maybe that's not the style where you're going to shine the most, and here you have a video where you really do shine the most. You know, you of course would do your best in whatever style you're given, but Lauren talks about hip-hop is not exactly the best for her, she'll do her best if not the best, so it's great to have something that is really, it's really where you shine movement-wise, something that we really try to help you at MTCA of going, your video should really show off what is best about you, movement-wise, musicality-wise, all that kind of stuff.

[1:06:30] Charlie Murphy: I also am reminded, I think one of the reasons I wanted to take away, I'm reminded every year, and this just happened last week, so it's fresh in my brain, that with a good handful of our students, one of the best things about having a really great dance video is it protects you if you get injured, right? We've had a number of students this year pull hamstrings, twist ankles, it happens every year, right? Of course that can happen over the course of your audition experience in any way, you could get sick, you could lose your voice, right? But what a great comfort to know that you're not going to lose your ability to showcase your dance ability entirely if you just happen to be in a walking boot.

15 years ago, that really used to be the case, like if you had a bad injury happen, I mean we would have students like struggling for grainy video of recitals or whatever they could do, but for you to have that calling card of something you feel really confident, this shows off my dance ability, to have that in your pocket just in case something goes wrong or whatever could potentially, what curveball could come your way, it's great protection, it's really excellent to have that.

[1:07:30] Charlie Murphy: And then, yes, as we said in the episode, just a reminder that at least for now in 2025, it is worth taking your tests if you're looking at applying to these Florida schools. I say tests, but of course, I mean a test could be one or the other, right? Of course, all of this could change, who knows what's going to happen as I record this on January 31st with the Department of Education and I don't want to talk about politics, but all the different things that could happen and who knows what will happen, but while I tell our students that I wouldn't make test scores or test prep too large a part of your process, especially if you're looking primarily at BFA and primarily at BFA conservatory programs, I wouldn't make it a huge part of your process to spend tons of time on test prep, but it still may be helpful for you to take the test for schools like FSU that will now be open to you and other schools which we've talked about which can give you a bit of scholarship money for having taken the test, right?

[1:08:20] Charlie Murphy: Obviously, this will be to each their own. There are students who decide for whatever reason not to take the test and it may not make sense for all of you, but I will just say sometimes students opt out of it because maybe they don't feel like it and in general, it's not going to harm you strategically, right? I can't think of a situation where it would harm you other than psychologically it may scar you, right? But if it's something you go, I'm going to walk in there take the test, it can only help you as of now strategically and you certainly could not submit it for any schools that don't make you submit it and I'm just going to say out there, it's really not that bad, right? I mean, I recognize I say this as someone who enjoyed these logic-based tests.

I enjoyed any test that I didn't have to study for. I liked taking the test, didn't like studying, right? But I'll just say you're going to do a lot of harder stuff in this process and in your life as a performer than sitting down for a few hours and getting some questions wrong, right? It's not the end of the world. You can do it. Just fill in the bubble and see what happens.

[1:09:20] Charlie Murphy: All right, there I go. I've slipped into pedantic podcaster mode. So, that's a good place to wrap this episode produced by Megan Cordier and Kelly Prendergast. You know, you can follow us at Mapping the College Edition on Instagram where you're going to see some of the great work of Jordan Rice as well as checking out this video on YouTube and Spotify. Make sure you like and subscribe wherever you are listening. Give us a rating and review if you feel full of Valentine's Day love. And if it's not yet Valentine's Day where you are, you may still have time to catch our Meet MTCA workshop if you're listening on episode drop day. That's tonight, February 12th at 8 p.m. Eastern. All of that information and everything you'll ever want or need is available at mtca.com. Lauren talks about their new website, but nothing beats that beautiful website over there at mtca.com. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, are you ready for that shortened mantra? Trust yourself that you are enough for the right program just as you are. Now keep striving. We'll catch you next week.