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[0:10] Charlie Murphy: Hello and welcome to the season two finale of Mapping the College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process.

[0:21] Charlie Murphy: I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theater College Editions. And today we have got a piping hot piece of beautiful pie we are gonna be serving to you.

[0:32] Charlie Murphy: Jessie Mueller is on the pod today, and I was really excited to chat with her because beyond her individual brilliance, it capped off a waitress-themed few weeks for us in the Murphy Stanley household.

[0:44] Charlie Murphy: Um last night, as I record this on a Tuesday, Elizabeth Solvi and I were lucky enough to attend the premiere of Waitress, the musical movie at Tribeca. It was incredible.

[0:56] Charlie Murphy: Um first off, I cannot recommend the film highly enough, especially if you're a lover of the musical or musical theater in general, and let's be honest, if you're listening to this, you're probably a lover of both.

[1:05] Charlie Murphy: Um, but just like the production itself was remarkable. Um I think personally, I think it's the best live capture I've seen in terms of the ability to capture close-ups and still have a really theatrical feel to the whole experience.

[1:16] Charlie Murphy: It was really excellent. And each cast member really shone. Shout out, Carnegie Mellon Alum, um, was incredible.

[1:26] Charlie Murphy: But each individual performance, from charity to Caitlyn to Chris, Eric, Joe, Friend of the Pod, Dakon, each of the ensemble members, it was really cool to see.

[1:35] Charlie Murphy: But of course, the true star of the show was our Sol Vi. Um, I cannot accurately describe how odd of an experience it was to be like transported down memory lane with this incredible cinematic footage of our four-week-old baby, and then even more so to do it in a room full of theatergoers who are awing and cooing over her while this is happening.

[1:58] Charlie Murphy: I mean, it was surreal and really special, especially if it happens in a really climactic moment, obviously of the movie. It was overwhelming and so kind of the cast and crew to welcome us and make us feel and her feel like such a part of the experience.

[2:11] Charlie Murphy: Um, when you do see the film, just please understand there was a lot more screaming in Sarah's face than you're gonna see in the final cut.

[2:19] Charlie Murphy: And Soul Vy cried a bit too. Also, last night Sol did her first and let's be honest, probably only red carpet, and was just shell-shocked for the entire thing.

[2:31] Charlie Murphy: Um she was fascinated, but basically silent and stunned and overwhelmed while these things were flashing in her face and people are asking questions, and you know, it was a very interesting experience for a two-year-old.

[2:41] Charlie Murphy: Um, I don't know yet where the film is gonna be released, when it's gonna be released, but I hope um you'll all be able to view it soon. It will be worth the wait, I promise.

[2:50] Charlie Murphy: And speaking of waits, we are gonna make you wait a while before your next Mapping the College Audition episode.

[2:57] Charlie Murphy: As we are gonna take our summer break. Um, we have some great episodes in the can. We're gonna get them out to you. We have the great Lauren Patton, the hilarious Alex Brightman, and the oh so tall John Bellman, um, as well as a number of awesome new schools that you haven't heard from yet, and some returning schools um coming as well.

[3:14] Charlie Murphy: Um, so we'll back be back in August with all of those, but we will make you wait no further for this interview with the great Jessie Mueller.

[3:29] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to have Jessie Mueller on the pod. Uh, Jessie has a BFA from Syracuse University.

[3:36] Charlie Murphy: She's been on Broadway in On a Clear Day You Can See Forever, for which she got a Tony Nom. Nice Work If You Can Get It, The Mystery of Edwin Drood, Beautiful: The Carole King Musical, for which she won a Tony, Drama Desk, and Grammy Award.

[3:48] Charlie Murphy: She was in Waitress, where she got a Tony, Drama Desk, and Grammy Nom, Revival of Carousel, a Drama Desk Award, a Tony, a Grammy Nom. Also all over your TV and film screens.

[3:57] Charlie Murphy: She's done some voiceovers. She was in Steven Spielberg's The Post. Secret Headquarters was released recently.

[4:03] Charlie Murphy: And has worked uh frequently in the Broadway community to raise awareness and funds for various causes, including helping to found the Concert for America, and was recognized for her work in arts education by ART in 2016.

[4:14] Charlie Murphy: Of course, you listeners didn't need all of any of that. You already know Jessie Mueller's bio, but we give it at the top anyway. Jessie, how are you doing today?

[4:21] Jessie Mueller: I'm well. How are you?

[4:23] Charlie Murphy: Um I'm doing great. I'm so excited to have you on.

[4:25] Jessie Mueller: Thank you.

[4:26] Charlie Murphy: I'm gonna start you where we do all of our artist guests and just talk a little bit about coming from a family of actors. Can you talk a little bit about what was that approach come college time when you thought if you thought, hey, I want to do this professionally, what were you looking for from a collegiate experience based on where you were of 16, 17 or whatever when you're thinking of it?

[4:43] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, let me go back. Um, yeah, so I came from my parents are performers, older brother and sister are performers, younger brother's a performer. So it was very much in my world.

[4:52] Jessie Mueller: Uh we were around it a lot. I saw a lot of shows growing up. I grew up um outside of Chicago in Evanston, Illinois.

[5:01] Jessie Mueller: Like, what? Evan Stone? Is that what many people say about Evanston? It gets Evan Stone.

[5:06] Jessie Mueller: I wouldn't be my first thing. A little bit. Okay. I don't know. ETHS, that was my high school. We were very cool. Very cool from what I think.

[5:12] Jessie Mueller: We were really cool. Um I think, especially me. I bet I was pretty cool at 16, 17. Umty nerds are for just now.

[5:21] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, M teen nerds were so, so cool. That's why we go into musical theater. Um, so I and I really didn't do theater until I got to high school, and I mentioned um I went to Evanston Township High School, which we all knew in the area as ETHS and um really has an incredible arts program, had an incredible arts program and still does.

[5:41] Jessie Mueller: Um and the theater department was amazing. And when I was there, a guy named Aaron Carney was running it, and he was really instrumental, I think, in making me think that I that I maybe had a place in this.

[5:53] Jessie Mueller: It was something I was always interested in, but I didn't do anything really never anything professional as a kid. High school was really my first chance to try it and you know get with the other theater nerds and do our thing and and uh yeah, our teacher, Mr. It's hard for me to call him Aaron Carney, my teacher Mr. Carney.

[6:10] Jessie Mueller: I feel like I still refer to him. Forever Mr. Carney.

[6:13] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, because um I he really treated us like we were young adults and like we were capable of things, and I think that helped us sort of rise to the occasion.

[6:24] Jessie Mueller: Um but yeah, so then I got to my moment of like, oh gosh, I have the privilege of going to college. What do I want to do? How do I want to do this?

[6:32] Jessie Mueller: I really struggled with whether I should go into theater or not because coming from an acting family, I had a pretty realistic viewpoint of what an artistic life might look like and the ups and downs of it all.

[6:45] Charlie Murphy: Um maybe unrealistic to expect it would turn out as well as it has for you, right?

[6:49] Jessie Mueller: You wouldn't have to be able to do that?

[6:50] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, no, I never would have imagined. I still have moments of w well, yeah. I still always have moments of second guessing and like maybe, yeah, maybe I shouldn't do this anymore.

[7:00] Jessie Mueller: Maybe this isn't for me. Maybe this is maybe I'm not good at this anymore. Maybe this is not where I'm supposed to serve.

[7:06] Jessie Mueller: And I think a lot of that is natural, but going back to like that high school age, I really struggled with it. I really struggled with it, and I think it was my mom that really encouraged me.

[7:16] Jessie Mueller: She said, Hey, look, like you're young and passionate about this. Go do this now, study this, try it. And you can always change your mind. You know, you can always do something different.

[7:27] Jessie Mueller: You and funnily enough, I was I was uh they had one little correction from your amazing intro. I actually did change my mind a little bit.

[7:33] Jessie Mueller: I started in the BFA program at Syracuse University and I made a switch in my junior year, I think it was. I switched to um the acting program.

[7:44] Jessie Mueller: So I actually have a BS, I have a BS in acting, which I think is hilarious. I'm not sure why it was a bachelor of sciences and not arts, but um, it required me to take a geology course to satisfy the science portion.

[7:56] Jessie Mueller: That my partner went to Indiana and also a big theater person and has a BS from Indiana, the same thing.

[8:02] Jessie Mueller: So yeah, I have a BS in acting. There you go, which I think is really very appropriate.

[8:05] Charlie Murphy: Yes.

[8:06] Jessie Mueller: And then took on took on uh um like a combined minor, which it wasn't like I took on a really sensible minor like IT or something.

[8:13] Jessie Mueller: No, it was like art and music history, but I I got to this point where I was the program at Syracuse was incredible, but it was for me personally, I felt like halfway through my college experience, I thought, oh my gosh, I don't know if I want a conservatory experience.

[8:29] Jessie Mueller: I think I want to feel like I went to college. I the drama department was so separate from the rest of the college, like even physically.

[8:35] Jessie Mueller: So I made that decision for my for myself to just sort of spend the rest of my time there in it in a way that I felt was more well-rounded and would suit me better.

[8:44] Jessie Mueller: So that's that's what I ended up doing. I kind of wondered coming from your background, I think some people feel like they're already super immersed in theater from their family, maybe say, I'm gonna go get a BA.

[8:54] Jessie Mueller: Maybe I'm not gonna spend my time four years doing nothing but acting, singing, dancing, especially if you're like, I already kind of have that training or I've already done some of that with my family.

[9:01] Jessie Mueller: So that I was I wonder that of how you ended up at Syracuse. But can you tell me a little bit more about the Syracuse experience?

[9:06] Jessie Mueller: So what did you feel maybe now both from the educational perspective and the broader education but also in the acting musical theater that that realm of things what do you feel like you you learned from Syracuse that you could kind of carry forward in your career?

[9:18] Jessie Mueller: Oh sure. Well I think and I think this is still the case. I mean I was there you know a minute ago now but um I think this is still the case I one of the things I valued about the program is I think they really they really work with the individuals.

[9:32] Jessie Mueller: I I think even when I was going to school musical theater programs were still kind of a new entity and and there were some that were emerging as like the sort of leaders the sort of leaders of the of in that field and then there was there were sort of whisperings of like oh well if you come out of so and so you're gonna be a so and so kind of actor and you must have gone to this school you have this style and this and I felt like Syracuse was really focused on the people they brought into the program as individuals and fostering their individuality which I thought was very cool.

[9:32] Jessie Mueller: And I felt like I did get that I did get that that sort of attention from my from my teachers and I really appreciated it because I I went into school feeling like I well I was trepidatious.

[10:16] Jessie Mueller: I didn't I knew I I loved it but I don't think I had the belief in myself to feel like there would be a place for me necessarily I felt like especially at that age I was like well I don't look like so and so or I don't sound like who's he wats and I'm in between what what we might call a type, you know, you start hearing terrible words like that in college, and um, and I get it, you know, there have to be folders in a casting office, but like I I really appreciated that I I think they they worked to mold the individual and encourage us as individual artists.

[10:48] Jessie Mueller: I I love that. I I remember graduating from school, I went I went to Carnegie Mellon University.

[10:51] Jessie Mueller: And like people used to say, like, oh, you're such a Carnegie Mellon actor, or you're gonna be a Carnegie Mellon actor.

[10:56] Jessie Mueller: I'm like, that's you don't know what that is. Even though I'm not sure. What does that even mean?

[10:59] Jessie Mueller: I I don't know. But uh yeah, it's the kind of stuff that gets thrown around a lot now.

[11:03] Charlie Murphy: And yeah, yeah, people like to categorize.

[11:05] Charlie Murphy: Um let's jump a little bit to so you started off your career in Chicago.

[11:08] Jessie Mueller: I did, yeah, yeah.

[11:10] Jessie Mueller: You worked at places like Chicago Shakespeare, but then really all over um Chicago. What do you feel like in that kind of post-collegiate chunk of time as you were building um sort of a theater resume?

[11:19] Jessie Mueller: What was that like? And did you see at the time do you imagine yourself staying in Chicago full-time? Like, what was that that experience like?

[11:25] Jessie Mueller: I think maybe I did because that that was sort of the model I I had growing up, and and uh it's what my parents did, and uh um people that I grew up seeing in theater there and friends of theirs, that was I saw that you could live and work in Chicago and have a life and maybe even have a family and maybe even own a house and um you know, coming coming out of school, I was like, I had I had no money.

[11:48] Jessie Mueller: I didn't I I just didn't I didn't envision myself moving to New York. That just seemed like a bad idea.

[11:55] Jessie Mueller: I was like, I don't have the resources and financial or emotional to like do this. I don't think that's gonna be good for me.

[12:01] Jessie Mueller: Um which in some ways was um I I kind of felt like the odd person out because a lot of people that I went to school with at Syracuse were from the East Coast, and like that's what everybody was doing.

[12:15] Jessie Mueller: But I really wanted to come back to Chicago.

[12:17] Jessie Mueller: I wanted to work, I wanted to learn. And I'm I for me personally, I'm so grateful I did because I just feel like that was the continuation of my training. You can learn in a class, in a studio, whatever, but it's not until you get in a process and in a different type of room with people, practitioners who were doing it as professionals. Like that is so that's so much of the gig is figuring out how to work, how you work, how other people's how other people work, how to work with other people who work either differently than you do, the same as you do, um, working with different personalities, different um learning how to yeah, to pace yourself, all these things, the practical day-to-day things that make actually living and working in your sort of chosen field possible.

[13:06] Jessie Mueller: Well, I mean, that is the model of teaching acting for the past hundreds of years has been apprenticeship, right? It's been people watching other people do it, right? It's so it's new that we have this idea of drama school, and we're gonna teach you in a couple years how to do everything as opposed to like you would have apprenticed and then you would have uh watched other people do it, and then you would have figured it out that way.

[13:24] Charlie Murphy: Um, your path seems very similar. We just had Sean Alan Krill on the pod a little bit.

[13:28] Jessie Mueller: Oh, you did. He's great, and he also spent a lot of years in Chicago and then made the jump to NYC. I'd love to hear like what was the what made you first, I guess be able to jump to NYC? Like, are you auditioning for New York shows or Broadway shows in Chicago? Do you decide I am gonna try to at least put a plant a foot there? How do you make that that job?

[13:47] Jessie Mueller: Well, it's funny you mentioned Sean and Alan Krill because um I had seen Sean in so many shows in Chicago, and like my sister had worked with Sean in Chicago. I never did, but the first show I ever did in New York, Sean Sean and I were in it together. And oh, but this was uh on a clear day?

[14:03] Jessie Mueller: Yes, on a clear day. And I ended up auditioning for Clear Day. I'll try to make this a sort of short story. I ended up auditioning for Clear Day in Chicago. The casting office, Jim Carnahan Casting, was coming through to cast the tour of American Idiot. And they had this other project on their on their plate of this Clear Day revival revisal. And so somehow my name got on this list. So they were like, see this girl while you're in Chicago. And I did, and I came in and auditioned and I kept going back in for them. Um, which then turned into like a week-long workshop that I went and did. And then there was a month-long lab. This is all in New York City.

[14:40] Jessie Mueller: So you're going back and forth with this one?

[14:41] Jessie Mueller: This is all in New York City. So I'm going back and forth. And um one of the one of the theaters in Chicago, actually, the Marriott Theater was amazing. They let me out of a they let me out of a contract that I was in to go do this month-long lab for this maybe opportunity to go do a show in New York. I mean, it was so up in the air.

[15:00] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, the possibility of a possibility of a possibility. Um, right. And um, so I kept moving forward with the show, and I ended up doing this this lab. And at the end of the lab, the team was like, We are gonna give you the part. Because they had been looking at me as the cover to play opposite Harry Conig Jr. And then like we'll have some stunt casting later, but you'll be you can maybe understudy or right, exactly. It was like, so they're gonna cast a star, and then like we might look at you as the cover, but we they were so kind and yeah, and um and generous to me and complimentary and you know, we love you, we love what you're doing. And I was like, Okay, okay.

[15:37] Jessie Mueller: And um, yeah, I was I was staying with my buddy Nick from high school up in Harlem on a blow-up mattress on his floor and going to this lab workshop every day. And um, yeah, and then they had plans to bring it to Broadway and and they said, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna give you this part, and but you can't tell anybody.

[15:56] Charlie Murphy: Uh-huh.

[15:57] Jessie Mueller: Cause they wanted to be really in charge of think of the marketing and how all that rolled out. And uh at that point I had I gotten to meet Harry in an audition and um did a week-long workshop with him, and he had been incredible and was so behind me and was such a champion of me in that process. And then lo and behold, like we get to Broadway and we're working on the show, and Sean Alan Krill is playing Harry's cover.

[16:19] Charlie Murphy: Let's go.

[16:20] Jessie Mueller: What a small beautiful. And he almost went on one night, and I remember he and I like like going going through stuff like in the lobby, just like running our harmony lines and stuff in case he had to go on. Harry had something with his back or something, but Harry was able to go on that night. And yeah, so he and I he and I chat about that every once in a while.

[16:37] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[16:38] Jessie Mueller: Small, beautiful world.

[16:39] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, um indeed. Okay, and speaking of beautiful, I didn't even mean that segue. So you know, let's take the journey to this. So, you know, from the outside, it seems like uh you can see the steady progression of okay. I'm doing now another Broadway show, another Broadway show, great. And then it seems like you just hit this career jackpot in this amazing role that is commercially successful, it's a critical hit, you get all the awards you can get for it, right? What was that experience? Like w when that was happening, was it something first? I guess was it that experience for you? And were you able to appreciate in the moment, oh my gosh, this is something that's really special as it's happening?

[17:10] Jessie Mueller: Hmm, oh that's such a good question. I feel like probably not. I I could have I could have could've, shoulda, woulda, but like maybe I could have experienced it more. But um no.

[17:22] Charlie Murphy: I'm not trying to shame you, I want you to feel bad about that.

[17:23] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, right. No, but on the but on the onset, no, but I I take that as a you know as a generous thing to learn from because it is funny, you look back on stuff, and not that you want to watch the traffic as it's going by, but you know, when you're when you're in it, but um, yeah, on the onset, no, we were just it was you know, not a shot in the dark because we knew we had this incredible incredible canon of music to work with. We knew how much people loved the music and loved Carole King, and but I definitely saw it. I remember actually asking Harry at one point. I was like, Okay, I gotta ask your advice about something. Is this sound like a good idea or something that I should not touch with a 10 foot pole? Like they're gonna do a musical about Carole King.

[18:04] Jessie Mueller: Uh-huh. You know, she's still Carole King, like she's alive and kicking, she's doing her thing. Is this a terrible idea? And I remember him being like, Well, we know the music's good. Like, what's the team like? Who's producing, and how do you feel about it? What's the book like? And um, sorry, I remember him kind of walking me through that because I was really trepidatious. And not necessarily an obvious path to like jukebox success. There wasn't like tons of really successful. They existed, it wasn't like, oh yeah, of course you can have an incredible jukebox musical that no, I mean we had Jersey boys, right? And I think they did it so right. And um, no, I I really thought hey, uh to me, I thought it was pretty risky. Like I said, we knew the music was brilliant. It could either go it great or it could go really wrong, like in the wrong hands.

[18:48] Jessie Mueller: Because I remember seeing the announcement, I remember seeing the announcement in Playbill of like a musical about Carole King. They're working on a musical and seeing her little picture on the Playbill feed and thinking like this weird mix of for whatever reason didn't make any sense. Like, I want to do that, and also this would go really, really wrong. Uh-huh. But you know, thank goodness they amassed the team that they had, and they got the right they got the right people around it to support it, and and you know, it was a great cast, it was such a great group of people, and Mark Bruni was directing, and um it, you know, we had, but also in the beginning, Carol was very much for the project, but didn't want to be that she didn't want to be the face of it.

She didn't, you know, and she's not in there tweaking and giving it. No, and we learned we learned sort of early on. I had an early conversation when I was moving forward with the project, and it looked like I was going to do it, and they wanted me to play Carol. I had a conversation with her manager, um, who's one of her daughters, Sherry Condor, and um saying, like, okay, I feel like I'm getting all these messages. Like, I just want to make sure that like Carol Carol wants this to happen. I wouldn't want to step into this without her blessing. And Sherry was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, she's totally behind it, but it's it's it's a tough story for her.

[20:04] Jessie Mueller: She story goes, she went to an early reading and um watched the first act and was like, This is really freaking good. And I can't say for the second act because I know what happens, and it's too hard for me to watch. So vulnerable. Um, so yeah, so she didn't see Carole King didn't see the show until months after we were open on Broadway, and she came like in disguise, and we didn't know she was there. Thank God I didn't know she was there.

[20:26] Charlie Murphy: Um Right, right, talking about uh making you completely nervous.

[20:31] Jessie Mueller: But but no, even as it as it was happening and we were developing it, I didn't know. We did the show outs out um almost said outside, no, out of town in San Francisco at the current theater, and I remember, yeah, one of the first previews. Because man, when you're working on a new show, too, you are just like in the weeds. Uh huh. You don't know the forest from the trees. You mean no perspective on like instantly? No perspective. Is this good? Is this working? I mean, you think you kind of feel it, but you you really know, like you're just so deep into it, you don't have fresh eyes, no one around has fresh eyes, you know. But I remember getting in front of, I think it was like our first preview audience, and we finished the show, and we were all like, We might have something here.

Like, like we might be on the way to something. I think this is working. I think people are getting it, and I think they're digging it. It's not just the music, like they're getting behind the characters. The narrative is working, people are following it, and I remember that being really, really exciting.

[21:24] Jessie Mueller: And and um, yeah, and then just there was the response from people and the response from audiences, and then you know, God bless it. We made it to Broadway, and and then the show ran for like five, six years, five years, six years longer than that. But I maybe I'm getting my facts mixed up. But um, yeah, it was an incredible thing. But no, I I didn't know. I mean, I just found out recently, I think the rights have finally just been released. Um, like regional theaters are doing beautiful now. Like, that's wild to me. That it's like in the canvas.

[21:59] Jessie Mueller: Oh gosh, I probably would not have the jobs for it anymore. I could play Carol's mom, maybe no, no, never couldn't be. Um, you jump right into another smash hit in waitress, right? So it seems like next you you kind of go boom boom, two like sort of really successful great shows. Are you at this point like what kind of conversations are you having with representation or with you know your team?

[22:22] Jessie Mueller: I thought you were gonna say, at this point, are you very tired?

[22:25] Charlie Murphy: Are you exhausted?

[22:26] Jessie Mueller: I'm just sure that's true too. But I kind of, you know, I I think so many of our young actors, I think think like I want to get to that point of really just originating a role or playing on Broadway, but but to get to the Carole King place and then to get to the waitress place, you know. Sort of do you do you feel any sense of like what's next in the musical theater world? I mean, are you like Michael Jordan just being like, we gotta win another championship?

[22:46] Jessie Mueller: I think we gotta, you know, you're like, I gotta retire. Like, what does it feel like to be like, I hit this thing, I hit this other thing? What is next in terms of what are what are you saying is next for me?

[22:56] Jessie Mueller: I mean, I think, especially back then, I I think I really it it wasn't it wasn't that I thought, oh, I this next step is going to be dot dot dot, and then I want to do this and I want to do that, and I had these like specific goals in mind. I just I've never really worked that way. I think I've always felt like I want the next thing that I do to be like I I want to always have done my best work, like I want it, and you know, that is still changing for me, what that means to me, whatever that means to Jessie. Like, um, and I want to work with really great people. And now the list is extended to like I want to work with really nice people. I want to work in a great environment, I want to enjoy myself. I wanna I I want um, yeah, I want it to be a joyous experience, I want it to matter, I I want to feel like I'm serving something, and it's something the world uh I I feel maybe should be heard or seen, or that that has become very important to me as well.

[23:55] Jessie Mueller: I mean, I I think I've always had a little bit of that, but um it's funny we're talking about beautiful and waitress, but I didn't even know that that sort of thing really was a possibility before it happened. So I think I've been very blessed in in meeting meeting great people, working really hard that sort of has led to the next thing that has led to the next thing. Um, and that has happened for me. I mean, certain people I've worked with have been like, well, I saw you, I saw you in this, and you know, why do you think you're here? Like, that's that's how this came about. And this connection, that job led to the next job, and things like that.

[24:28] Jessie Mueller: Um at this point now, you have you've earned the privilege of being more choosy, right?

[24:32] Jessie Mueller: So if there's not a huge another level to reach, it's like I get to be really specific of like what projects I want to do.

[24:37] Charlie Murphy: Well, and that's a huge word.

[24:39] Jessie Mueller: You just said it right there. Like, I've been so privileged in what I've been able to do in the rooms I've had access to and things like that.

[24:46] Jessie Mueller: And that it is exactly what that is. It is a privilege. And I think my eyes have been opened and are continuing to be opened around that conversation as well. Um that I have felt like I was able to walk into the rooms that I did walk into and do the kind of work and get to play in the sandbox with the people I've gotten to play with. Um, now I've been doing, you know, then there was a pandemic, so no theater was happening. And really it was a little bit before that, but then that's sort of when I was starting to do more TV and film because that's what was happening, and that's sort of what came back first. And I found out that I really love to do that as well, and got to do some more voiceover projects and animation projects, which I adore.

Like I just wanted to be an animated character since the time I was probably six years old. So like I will be, you know, the singing rock sixth from the left in any Disney film, Disney if you're listening. Um just let me know.

[25:47] Charlie Murphy: We were just talking about that before you came on. Uh our intern and I were talking about that because I have a two-year-old daughter, uh-huh. And she just started doing the Disney. We just did Moana and we did Encanto, and I was like, this is the greatest job ever. Cause like you're like introducing, you're like getting on the ground floor for kids and their love of music in a way that like I love doing it with like high school hits with Shakespeare being like, I'm like the first person teaching you this. It's so exciting to be like opening your eyes and watching like my daughter hear these great singers who all these people are amazing.

[26:15] Jessie Mueller: Oh, I'm sure.

[26:16] Jessie Mueller: Like so good. It's just like and that's what that yeah, that's what that was for me. Like those Disney things, like watching the new trailer for the live action Little Mermaid, like the goosebumps, just because I was geeking out with someone I ran into at my agency the other day because we were just talking about how like elemental that was for us. That film, that sound, that muse, that Alan Menken music, Jodi Benson's voice, you know what I mean? That it's that it is expanding now and it's coming to a new generation, and little black and brown girls are like, I can be Ariel, I can be, you know what I mean? Like it's really powerful stuff. It's really powerful stuff.

[26:57] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. What about so and it seems like yeah, really TV and film picked up a little bit after the um some of those big Broadway hits. What was that experience, I guess, of like having you're not very well known in the you know theater world, and you're showing up to film sets and you're going, okay, now I'm maybe I'm guest star number three, or I what was that experience to kind of go back to the beginning?

[27:18] Jessie Mueller: Yeah. I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. I had to I had to learn by doing. I mean, I didn't know how that worked. So I would try to ask friends who had done it, like I know how to show up for rehearsal, and I'll probably get a script and maybe a book of music, and then someone will tell me we're gonna learn this song from one to two o'clock. And I just had no idea. I mean, you kind of you get a call sheet that to me is really confusing to read. So you have to learn how to basically read your work schedule. That was the first thing. Calling my agent and be like, what does this mean? It seems like it's in code. What is this spreadsheet?

[27:51] Jessie Mueller: Yes. And then you're sort of told to show up, usually to like an abandoned parking lot at a certain hour, often early in the morning. And then you sort of show up and you're like, huh, and the tumbleweeds are rolling by, and then hopefully some smiley PA walks out and finds you, you know, with a headset and it's like, Oh, I know you're the one I'm looking for. Are you playing so and so today? And then you go to a trailer and um, you know, maybe it has your character's name on it, and then you kind of but I didn't know I didn't even know that stuff. So I I didn't to me that that unknown stuff really put me uh I was very nervous and anxious about that stuff, but I think I gained confidence just in doing it and learning the routine of it. That stuff was really really helpful to me. Be like, okay, I might not feel like I know what I'm doing, but I know I'm gonna go to the hair and makeup trailer and I'm gonna get some information there.

[28:40] Jessie Mueller: Yes, little tidbits. And then I'm gonna go back in my other trailer and there'll be clothes, and then that'll be informative. And that will sort of show me a little bit about my character and the way that stuff happens, usually so much faster than theater. You know, you don't have this long process. Um, people, all the artists are kind of combining their work and making it all happen on the day, and you have to process the information quite quickly, and sometimes settings might change or lines might change. And um, now I really enjoy that. I dig that. There's something I find really exciting about that. And I think for me personally, it's an exercise in not overthinking things, just sort of going with my instincts, and that's something that I think that sort of work is starting to teach me.

And I really enjoy it. I love watching how everything comes together. I love watching other people work, um sort of in like what they call video village, where you can kind of watch the monitors and see how it's all coming together. I really find that stuff fascinating. I love it.

[29:37] Charlie Murphy: All right, we're gonna take a short break, and on the back end of your break, we're gonna dive into your own superpower a little bit more.

[29:43] Jessie Mueller: Uh oh, okay.

[29:46] Charlie Murphy: All right, we are back with Jessie Mueller, and we're gonna talk, you know, with each of our artists, we try to highlight something in the performing world that they do extremely well, and we'll chat about. So, like with Celia Keenan-Bolger, we talked about vulnerability with Sean, we talked about generosity with Annaleigh Ashford, we talked about comedy. So different stuff that we're like, this person does really well. You have many things, of course, we could have gone in this direction, but I'm gonna give you the hardest of them all to talk about.

[30:10] Charlie Murphy: Okay, which is I want to talk about like it factor. You know, you could describe it as the charm, you can talk about watchability or stage presence. I think all of those are kind of slightly different things. But I think like combined, it's what maybe helps an audience like see an actor with a gorgeous singing voice and go, that's great, and someone they go, Oh my god, this person's a star. I want to I want to watch them. I love this, right? Is this something I would something I say describe that you of having, which I know is uh um maybe a little ephemeral. Is that something that you feel like you're aware of that you you have consciously cultivated the idea of like watchability or stage presence?

[30:45] Jessie Mueller: Um, or is it something you're like this just happens?

[30:47] Jessie Mueller: No, I feel like I have no reference point for that. Thank God. Thank God. I don't know. I mean, I do find that stuff fascinating. I and I I do I can see it in other people, and I always find it really interesting. Like when I go see maybe a new show, and there's especially young people that I've never seen before, and it is weird how you can be like, whoa, that person. Who's that person? Yes. That person. I have no idea what that is. Do you feel like that?

[31:13] Jessie Mueller: I guess I feel really grateful if you think I have that, but I have if I tried to unpack it and try to understand it, that would be a terrible exercise for me. So I'm not even gonna attempt.

[31:23] Charlie Murphy: You're like, I won't even try. But it doesn't have something you feel like you could theoretically turn off, right? I think you could be aware of like how not to take the stage or how not to, you know, um, exude a presence or something, right?

[31:34] Jessie Mueller: I feel like if someone was like maybe it hasn't been too much space.

[31:38] Jessie Mueller: Can well, yeah, right. I don't know, maybe if you decided to disengage, if you decided to make yourself smaller, if you I don't know. The one thing that is that is like bubbling in my mind right now is the idea of like, isn't it somehow it's some sort of connection, right? Whatever that connection is, whatever draws someone to you or you to the other people. I but I don't think it's anything I'm in control of.

[32:05] Jessie Mueller: Not something that you're you're always like walking around. Yeah, maybe it's something I could I could tap into at best. It's like if I'm the vessel, then something is working through me. I I don't know, but I think also the people that I find the most compelling are like I think it comes down to you mentioned like a vulnerability with with Celia or like an like an honesty. If somebody is is has an has an honesty to their core, and that is what is showing through on stage. I think that's sort of where connection occurs. Uh-huh.

[32:40] Charlie Murphy: But I guess that's maybe different than like it factor. I don't know. Well, yeah, maybe it factor as like a uh from from a perspective of like a career is a little different. But there's something like, you know, if someone says like if someone were give you the direction of like, hey, let us into that moment a little bit more, or like there is something where, yeah, it's your point of connection.

[32:56] Jessie Mueller: Ooh, I don't know what that would be. My first thought was like, okay, you need to see more of my eyes. That from a technical aspect, I'd be like, oh, am I looking at the floor again? Yeah, like let us in. It's funny, you work with, especially if you're doing, you know, working with uh people in like a college arena or working in a class, you know, that's something that I bring up a lot. It's like I know in life when we're when we're thinking a lot or we're we're uh struggling, if we're feeling down, or like we look down, we go into the ground, we try to grind ourselves, but like on stage, that's usually deaf. That's like you lose you lose the performer's eyes, you lose the connection, you lose their soul.

[33:33] Jessie Mueller: No, I think connection is a really good word with that. I was gonna say, like, I feel like in the TV world, let's say if you're playing like a villainous character and someone gave you the note of like, we need we need to identify with you, like we need to we need to like you. Like there is, I feel like you almost know what that would mean, too, of going, I can't be unredeemable. So I'm turning up my likability to some extent.

[33:54] Jessie Mueller: Maybe, or maybe that's interesting you bring up the villain thing. It's like, do you know you're the villain? Like, usually you don't know you're the villain. Maybe if it's like a superhero sort of epic thing, you know you're the villain, but right, it's always more interesting if there's you know, the actions of a villain come from somewhere, they usually come from a vulnerability.

[34:14] Charlie Murphy: Um, all right. Well, then let's talk about it from the outside perspective as best as we can. We're trying to unpack an unpackable thing.

[34:20] Jessie Mueller: Let's unpack it.

[34:21] Charlie Murphy: Let's try. If you were watching someone, when you watch someone, you go and you do your eye goes to that person, you go, I am so fascinated, I want to see more. What tangible things do you think make you feel that way?

[34:33] Jessie Mueller: I mean, what are the definable things if they're definable that makes you go, I want to watch more that person's thinking? Usually I think it's someone who is so in it, who is so in it, who is so um so grounded in this in the space that they are working to portray whatever they're portraying. Like if it's a but again, I think it's it's usually something different from theater than from film. You know, there are moments on film where you know, to just be technical, it's like wow, they have a beautifully symmetrical face. Like anywhere you put that camera, anywhere you angle that light, like I want to watch. And so so there is that aspect of it from from that standpoint, maybe of of just to my eye, what is pleasing, what is and sometimes it's not a symmetrical face, sometimes it's not balanced.

It's just like there is just something about their emotion reads in their eyes, whatever it is. Does this person even know that? I don't know. But yeah, it's interesting on on stage. It's I don't know, it's those people that like glow, and I don't know what that is. I don't know if I think I can usually tell if a performer is self-conscious, that will disengage me a little bit. So I think it it has to do a little bit with with confidence.

[35:52] Jessie Mueller: I think the confidence is not like a thing put, it's usually not a put on confidence that I'm responding to. It's the it's uh I'm okay. I'm okay with who I am, I'm okay with showing up how I am and who I am and where I am, just as I am. I think that kind of thing usually that gets me, that excites me, that draws me into the person. It can be someone who is um so different from anyone that I've ever seen, and it's just like wow, you are so you, you can't help it. And that's also to me, that's also like the maddening thing, like to tell people like you just be so you're actually. And then you, you know what I mean, especially younger people who are starting out or finding their way, and you know, it I think it still kind of applies to everybody, but it's like it is, it's that that truth, man. Be you, and that will that will shine, you will shine. But you know, we also live on earth in this plane, and sometimes that feels really hard just to be the self.

[36:48] Jessie Mueller: And sometimes I think for young people, I mean they hear that advice from every college would be like, our college says be your authentic self. And they're all like, I don't know who that is yet. I don't know who that is, I still don't know who that is. I'm 36, I don't know who that is.

[36:59] Charlie Murphy: Exactly, and that's okay. We're all working on it.

[37:01] Jessie Mueller: Yep. Um I so I I love that way of describing it like it's so clear that the things that block it, you know, in terms of your your self you're too self-conscious. It's like now we're not going to see your whatever if you have that it factor is not shining through because you're blocking it. But it's hard to know what what are the things other than removing the obstacles to it that like brightens that light or makes it shine forward. You know, is it something if you were talking to maybe sticking with young actors you know and I get this question from parents a lot of parents would go, I know my daughter's talented. She's really good. I just don't know if she has it. I don't know if she has the thing that's gonna make her be successful in this business.

What would you say to that young the parent or that young person in terms of going, how do you how do you know if you if you have that charm, if you have that like a bill if you have that thing that people are going to go, I want to pay money to watch this person say well it's what we've been saying. We're trying to define something that comes from somebody else's definition. Uh-huh that I don't know if I'm describing that well but it's like the parent saying I don't know if my child has the it factor and it's like well that's not for you to determine that's not even for your kid to determine it's like according to casting directors or yeah who is determining that casting directors producers the higher ups money I mean maybe they're the ones it's like maybe people just need to just like your path is going to be your path.

Your kid's path is going to be your kids' path. I mean I believe that I believe to me I believe that God is in charge and like he is I'm trying to do my best, but he is he is steering and I and I am trying to at this point in my life align myself with being ready for the opportunities that are at hand. Um but whatever you believe, um, it's it that that's a tricky thing because it's like something that's out of your control, sort of, because it's what somebody else is perceiving about you. So the only things you can control from the inside are like it's like the opposite of all that, which is why it's sort of this sort of undescribable thing.

[39:02] Charlie Murphy: Well, kind of, maybe.

[39:04] Jessie Mueller: Yep. Well, and it's so hard also because you're like, if what's gonna be so exciting and really trailblazing and turn you into a Jessie Mueller is the fact that you're unique and you haven't existed before. It's so hard to know. If like it's hilarious when people say my full name like that, because to me, what I was always worried about in school was like, I'm not interesting enough. I don't look like this. I'm not, I don't look like a leading lady, and I I'm not, but I don't like I'm not super charactery and like have a soprano voice, and I can kind of belt, but I don't look like a soprano and I don't sound enough like a belter, like I'm not enough like blah blah, like dot dot dot, who has done it before.

So I don't think I'm gonna be interesting enough. I had a acting professor who I thought said the most brilliant thing. If you are interested, you will be interesting. It is not your job to try to go out there and be interesting. I don't think. I think that's a death trap. Like then you're just gonna be doing all this extraneous stuff and you're not you're not in it. You're not in it. And I think that's what's not watchable. Where it's watchable, but for a different reason. Like you're watching that person because they're taking you out of it. It is not your job to try to go out there and be interesting. You are interesting. We're all fascinating, actually. It it's more about like what we what we want to reveal, what we choose to reveal, what we can access that maybe somebody else couldn't access that makes our interpretation of something unique, which might, which might be that one thing that pulls that on that just sort of gets that honesty, hits that that honest spot in somebody who's watching the show that night that makes them feel like, oh my God, I I'm okay. I feel seen. I know that I know that emotion. I know that that that person, I know that feeling. Um again, it brings it back to the connection.

[40:52] Charlie Murphy: It's it's so well said. Um you segue us perfectly. The other kind of superpower that we almost went into, but we'd already done one that's kind of similar recently, was just about your range, and maybe specifically as an actor and vocalist, you know, I do think you're someone people think of as you said I can belt a little bit, and I kind of have a soprano voice. I think people think of you as a great belter and a great legit singer. Like how how do you does that feel like that was um mostly like, hey, this is I was born, I was pretty comfortable in these different um ranges or different styles, you know, including stuff like God forbid you do Shakespeare, you do all these different things, voiceovers now. It does it feel like you're always trying to add to the toolbox, always trying to sharpen certain, you know, parts of your your range. How how have you cultivated, I guess, such a wide-ranging ability?

[41:36] Jessie Mueller: Uh yes, and yes, definitely the whole thing about like I'm always interested in adding new tools to the toolbox and or going back and you know, sharpening that thing that that hasn't been used in a while. Um, but I also I feel like I've been really fortunate in that people have allowed I don't know if that's the right word, but like I've been able to jump into projects that have asked something different of me. Yeah, and then I get to carousel. Yeah, and then I and then I get to like flex that muscle, then I get to or work that muscle and get it back into shape again to use it. And to me, that's also that's always what has made things interesting and exciting to me. Like I had an amazing voice teacher in college, her name is Tish Oney.

And one of the things I really struggled with in college, you know, in addition to all the other things I was talking about, like should I be doing this? Should I be spending money studying this uncertain career? And and then I was like, oh gosh, well, but don't I need to decide on one thing that I can just really get good at? And that's what I feel like I'm sort of hearing, and and and that and that's how you can become successful. And but I like all kinds of music, and I don't want to just do one kind. And and she was really instrumental in being like, okay, so don't. So let's work on all the stuff. Let's she she had an I mean she was an amazing classical musician and practitioner and um understanding of that pedagogy, but she was also a jazz vocalist and she worked with musical theater students, so she kind of did it all, and she really she really gave me that affirmation of like, sure, do it all, why not? I she listened, she listened to what I was feeling and what I was wanting and yearning for. She's like, Okay, well, let's do that.

[43:15] Charlie Murphy: Yep.

[43:15] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, which is really incredible. It's so well said. I mean, you know, it's it's this weird thing where it's like in high school and you're just here for colleges, people are like, show me as much range as possible, you know, be as dynamic as you can. And then it feels like we try to narrow it.

[43:27] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes.

[43:27] Jessie Mueller: I can't be old lady, I can play.

[43:29] Charlie Murphy: Yes.

[43:30] Jessie Mueller: And then you get into the real world and you're like, yeah, we only need you to be and and I think so often actors say, Well, let me tell you the one thing that's gonna be castable and hireable about me. It's even sometimes trained that people, you know, the schools will say, like, hey, it's probably you know, what's gonna the thing that's gonna get your foot in the door? Let's really make that excellent, and then you can expand outward. But yeah, I do think often actors end up limiting themselves by choosing what that is, as opposed to g you don't necessarily know if you're good at free things. Yeah, maybe you've got to be able to do that. And I bet I bet in the collegiate atmosphere too. That's that's really tough for for programs and teachers because it's like, yeah, you want to you want to give people the tools, right?

And uh help them explore learning how to do this and unpacking a character and and and how to analyze a scene and all this stuff and and create range and learn how to do all these different things, and then all of a sudden you go, Oh my gosh, now we're pushing them out, we're birthing them into the world, right? And the world is gonna want them to be young college students. Like they're not gonna go play the old man, right? Whatever play yet. So it's like there's someone who goes, You're an amazing belter, we're still working on that legit voice. It's like you're probably gonna be cast in belt roles before you're gonna be casting those legit roles. Realistically, that's like right. Maybe that's what you're more ready for at this point, right?

[44:41] Charlie Murphy: Right, yeah.

[44:41] Jessie Mueller: And it's gotta be I I feel I feel you, because that's that's gotta be really tricky. It's trying to get a lot into about four years that takes a lifetime.

[44:50] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, exactly. Can we talk a little bit about what it is to have um your family in the business? So um I I know you know you have you have multiple siblings in the industry, your parents are in the industry. At one point, you and Abby both were playing Carole King, right? You both on Broadway and on the tour, you both did it. Like what was the experience now? Of like, are they all weighing in on business decisions? Are you are you guys sitting around a round table and chatting about your career?

[45:14] Jessie Mueller: Oh god, no, that's like the last thing we want to talk about. Is work. No, when we get together, it's all about like how is everybody? And have you seen so and so in the family? And like, what are we eating tonight? And no, yeah, and how's everybody doing? I mean, yeah, we're we always want to know what we're up to and supportive of each other's projects, but no, it's definitely not that God, that sounds like that sounds like hell to me sitting around and be like, So, what's your next project? And what have you thought about maybe pursuing this? And no, that's your parents to me personally, that that just like made me very anxious. Um, no, we just we just want to like hang out and be stupid around each other. That's really what we do.

[45:53] Charlie Murphy: I love it.

[45:54] Jessie Mueller: But it's it is nice to have people that you can if you want to bounce things off, like they get it, and they know how to they also weigh this project for this that project if you have if it's if you're in that privileged position of like having some choice and oh well, you know what I mean. I can get my my health insurance for doing this project, you know, I'll get the weeks, but this one is really exciting to me. And and um, so you can I can lean on my family for that sort of thing, and you know, if you ever need feedback or anything, but yeah, when we're together, it's mostly wanting to talk about just being silly and being dumb and good to meet each other.

[46:27] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, and food. Food does enter the picture a lot.

[46:30] Jessie Mueller: I I'd love to hear a little bit of and we're about to play our game, but I'd love to hear a little bit about um this album. So my heart says go.

[46:37] Jessie Mueller: Oh, yeah, that's good. Uh Jeffrey Co., the music director, is a former MTCA student and also used to work for us before his career took off. Small beautiful world. Yeah, um, but tell me a little about this project and and where people can check it out and and all those beautiful things.

[46:50] Jessie Mueller: Sure. Well, I first got involved with it during the pandemic. Uh, a buddy of mine, Matt Hawkins, who I worked with in Chicago, we were in a show together, and he does a lot of in his amaz his various lives that he's led. Like at that point, I knew him as an actor and a fight choreographer, and he was with the house theater, one of the founding members there in Chicago. And so, cut two years later, he's now running the musical theater department in Notre Dame. So, he writes me this hilarious email. It's like, hey Jessie, we haven't talked in a while. Uh, also, I'm running the musical theater department in Notre Dame. Isn't that hilarious? Um, he's like, You knew me in a very different capacity.

And he was like, Okay, so I've met this student, Jorge Rivera Harans. He's written in this show, and we're working on this show, and it's sort of a concept still, and we've staged some stuff, but like this, this guy is really brilliant, and he's written this musical, and he's like, I would love to send you some demos he did, and we were thinking of uh putting together a sort of more complete demo recording. So this is during the pandemic, and I was like, Yeah, sure, shoot me the stuff. It's great to hear from you. I hadn't talked to him in a few years, and but we'd stayed, you know, we stayed in touch, and so he shot me over the demos, and I was like, Whoa. I was like, This is a college student that's doing this.

To me, it was very it was like taking what what Lynn Manwell has been doing, but I also heard a lot of Jonathan Larson. I heard anyway, I was really excited by this. So again, back in touch with Matt. I was like, I mean, yeah, I'm I'm game. I was like, you know, I'm sitting at home and we can't go anywhere, but I have a mic. Yeah, if I can record stuff from home, let's let's do it, let's try it. So then cut to Matt. Um Matt and Jorge have continued to work together and develop this project. And Matt ends up getting uh a grant, I believe, um, through the university through Notre Dame. And he's and he's trying, you know, we've all gone through the pandemic, and he was like, okay, what's important to me is accessibility.

I want people to hear this story. I want people to hear Jorge's music and what we've worked on, and because it's it's just an accessible piece. It's about a young person wanting to follow their heart, and what if that doesn't line up with their parents' dreams for them and their parents' intentions and goals? You know, we were talking about a lot of parents being like, oh God, don't go into musical theater. It's so and that's sort of what happens with with our lead character. He's in med school, and it's semi-autobiographical for Jorge and his experience.

[49:05] Jessie Mueller: He's a med student, and he's like, I don't want to do this. He's like in his third year of med school, and he's like, I want to write music. And so he meets these American amazing characters along the way, and it's this exploration of that's why it's called My Heart Says Go. And it's in a couple of the songs too. That theme comes back. But like, what does your heart say? And how do we follow our heart? And how do we listen to the outside voices? And when do we and when don't we? Um, but I was really, really compelled by the music. And then Matt came back to me after the pandemic and was like, okay, here's what I'm gonna do with this money. I want to get a studio recording. I think it's the best way to get this story out there.

And he was also really, I mean, sure, I guess anybody working on a project would always be open to the big dreams of like maybe this a really amazing production will be done someday in whatever city or whatever town or whatever. But he was like, I want anybody to have access to this. I want high schools to be able to do this, I want other universities to be able to do this. So that's why they went in the direction of making this um the studio recording. And um, it's really I was listening to it again the other day because it was a studio recording, we were all the artists were all coming in and out sort of on our own time, um, in little snippets. It's not like a normal rehearsal process where you're not hearing everything.

You're in it and you're hearing everybody's stuff. So, like, I was going back and listening to other stuff the other day, playing stuff for my partner Andy, and I was like, I was like, this is really good, right? He was like, Yeah, this is amazing. So I'm just excited for people to hear it. You can hear it on any, it's out on all streaming platforms, iTunes, all that stuff. It's called My Heart Says Go. And um, yeah, we're just excited for people to hear it. I just I just was hopping on a Zoom call with um Javier Munoz, who was also on, he plays the father um of the lead character, and uh yeah, it's just it's an exciting thing, and I'm stoked for people to hear it.

[50:55] Charlie Murphy: Super cool, and we love new musicals, new music. Um, this will be in the show notes. So if you're on this episode, you'll have a link directly to listen in the show notes. All right, shall we get to our special game? So, as you know, of course, all of our artist guests get a unique game. Sometimes it's hard trivia, sometimes it's silly games. Last episode don't be hard trivia.

[51:16] Jessie Mueller: No, it's not hard. It won't be hard, I promise.

[51:18] Charlie Murphy: Okay, sometimes we make people spell like Celia had to do a spelling. It's terrible.

[51:21] Jessie Mueller: I know.

[51:21] Charlie Murphy: But no, this is gonna be a name that tune style game. I'm gonna give you a line or a lyric. So it's either gonna be line or lyric, or I'm gonna play you a little snippet, a little hurdle style snippet from a show that you have done.

[51:32] Jessie Mueller: Oh, god, and you have to guess what is this show.

[51:35] Charlie Murphy: So I better get it right. There's gonna be a couple ones I throw in there that are not from shows you've done just to make it a little harder. It's the challenge. We're gonna are you ready to play?

[51:43] Jessie Mueller: I'm ready for this.

[51:43] Charlie Murphy: Name that tune style game. Okay, here we go. The first, we're gonna start you off easy.

[51:47] Jessie Mueller: Okay.

[51:48] Charlie Murphy: Heart, stop racing. Let's face it, making mistakes like this will make worse what was already pretty bad.

[51:54] Jessie Mueller: Oh, I love hearing it as monologue. That's bad idea for the musical Waitress by Sarah Brellis.

[51:58] Charlie Murphy: That is correct. That's more information than you need to get for the game, but it was great. That was waitress. Okay. All you need is a show name.

[52:03] Jessie Mueller: Okay, got it.

[52:04] Charlie Murphy: Why did Champagne lose its year for me? Love's haunting strain disappear for me. What could I do? She wasn't you.

[52:10] Jessie Mueller: That's from Monaco, you can see forever.

[52:14] Charlie Murphy: That's 100% correct. Okay, here we go. Two for two so far. Okay. Were there signs and I didn't see them? A random remark, occasional sigh. That day in the park, the gleam in his eye.

[52:24] Jessie Mueller: You've stumped me.

[52:26] Charlie Murphy: That was that you basically have one. That was not a show you've done. That's thoroughly modern Millie.

[52:30] Jessie Mueller: I was just trying to throw in some difficult ones.

[52:32] Charlie Murphy: Can't be too easy here. Totally. Okay, here we go. At the end of the storm is a golden sky, and the sweet silver song of a lark.

[52:41] Jessie Mueller: Carousel.

[52:42] Charlie Murphy: That's carousel.

[52:43] Jessie Mueller: Or carousal, as we like to call it.

[52:45] Charlie Murphy: Or carousal, yes, as carousel.

[52:47] Jessie Mueller: As we will. Um now comes the audio medium part of this. It's like Jeopardy where they show the clip. I'm gonna try to play a little snippet, and you're gonna see. None of these will have lyrics, so it's gonna be tricky.

[52:57] Jessie Mueller: Okay.

[52:59] Charlie Murphy: Will you love me tomorrow?

[53:00] Jessie Mueller: Oh my god, that was very quick.

[53:02] Charlie Murphy: Okay, great. I'm gonna get it.

[53:03] Jessie Mueller: Those opening chords, yeah.

[53:03] Charlie Murphy: Will you love me to be? Too easy. All right, it's gonna be harder now.

[53:05] Jessie Mueller: It's gonna be harder.

[53:06] Charlie Murphy: That's the song you sang.

[53:11] Jessie Mueller: Guys and dolls.

[53:11] Charlie Murphy: Guys and dolls.

[53:12] Jessie Mueller: Fuke for tin horns, yeah.

[53:14] Charlie Murphy: Very good. That was very good. Okay, here we go. Was that from Little Night Music?

[53:22] Jessie Mueller: It is not from Little Night Music.

[53:24] Charlie Murphy: It's from Bridges of Madison County, but not a show you've done.

[53:27] Jessie Mueller: All you had to do is identify with Mother Show.

[53:29] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, okay. No, no, no. Okay, here we go. The Shakespeare portion. You may my glories and my state to pose, but not my griefs. Still am I king of those.

[53:39] Jessie Mueller: No idea.

[53:40] Charlie Murphy: Well, you just have to say it's not a show that you've done. That's you've correctly identified. It's not a show.

[53:42] Jessie Mueller: Oh, yeah, it's not a show I've done. Yet herein will I imitate the sun who doth permit the base contagious clouds to smother up his beauty from the world.

[53:57] Charlie Murphy: The only Shakespeare I ever did was Henry Four.

[53:59] Jessie Mueller: That's Henry Four.

[54:00] Charlie Murphy: That's Henry for uh part one. There was we got our first actual stumper.

[54:04] Jessie Mueller: Okay, yeah, okay.

[54:05] Charlie Murphy: That was a stumper. All right, but and last but not least. I spoke in Welsh in that one.

[54:09] Jessie Mueller: I don't know.

[54:10] Charlie Murphy: Yes, Welsh. You did one little thing. It's fine. Uh a man could have bad dreams and not be all he seems, yet not be far removed from all the noblest of extremes.

[54:20] Jessie Mueller: I don't think I've done that.

[54:22] Charlie Murphy: That is the mystery of Edwin Drude.

[54:24] Jessie Mueller: That is the mystery of Edwin Drude. A little song that's like Shakespeare.

[54:28] Charlie Murphy: Oh, A Man Could Go Quite Mad? Is that from that song?

[54:31] Jessie Mueller: Yep.

[54:31] Charlie Murphy: Can you believe it?

[54:32] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, that was a good one right after the Shakespeare.

[54:34] Charlie Murphy: Very starting to do it. Try to sneak it in, you know. That was good. Okay. We have to wrap up for your time. I want to be conscious of that. So if people want to follow you, there's no social media for Jessie.

[54:43] Jessie Mueller: So Schmeads. Is that what the kids say?

[54:44] Charlie Murphy: That's what I say. So probably not. So meets kids probably don't say it anymore.

[54:49] Jessie Mueller: But now is that something were you on and then now off?

[54:51] Charlie Murphy: Or you're uh no, you know what? I was on Facebook back in the day. And then yeah, I went off of that, you know, back when like Facebook was popular. And then no, I just never got into the social media. I've always just I'm so happy to engage in in other people's stuff, like especially when I'm working on shows and stuff. But for for me personally, I just I don't have it for myself. So thank God I think there are some fans out there that that are following you know, projects I've been I've been on and things, and I and I really appreciate that. Um, because yeah, no, I don't I don't do it for myself.

[55:21] Charlie Murphy: They're just gonna have to click and listen to you on my heart says go. Um, my last question I really will let you go is just um any advice for young actors. If any young actors want to grow up and be Jessie Mueller, I know we've already given some, but any any thoughts in terms of um what they can do to be a Jessie Mueller.

[55:38] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, don't try to be Jessie Mueller. Go grow up to be yourself and know that it's gonna take time and you're right where you're supposed to be, and you have to keep telling yourself that, I think. That and don't take anyone else's advice.

[55:48] Charlie Murphy: Except that advice, except that little bit you're supposed to take.

[55:51] Jessie Mueller: Um thank you, Jessie. I really appreciate the time. Uh with such a pleasure.

[55:54] Jessie Mueller: Yeah, my pleasure.

[56:01] Charlie Murphy: Hot damn. So nice of Jessie to chat with us. I thought she was so easy to talk with, and I really hope an inspiration to any young listeners who are filled with some of the doubts she talked about being filled with. I really love when she talked about like hearing her full name of Jessie Mueller. You know, you aren't Jessie Mueller until you are. And the same, of course, is true for Solvi Murphy or for any of you, dear listeners. Um, I also really liked your advice from her voice teacher of not limiting yourself if you don't want to. I think we were hinting at a kind of difficult discussion of how broad or focused to be in your entry into the business and and somewhat in your training too. And I don't think there is a simple answer there of how broad or how focused, but I think it's a pretty good rule of thumb to follow your heart where that's concerned.

If you think there's an additional skill set or style you want to keep exploring, explore it, right? Even if it doesn't end up being something that you are gonna directly do professionally, it might inform an area that you do, and you never know when the right moment will pop up for you to showcase those skills.

[56:57] Charlie Murphy: Also, I'm embarrassed to say, here we are, another Mia Culpa for that game. Sometimes the games go well, sometimes they're just flops, but we give them to you whether they worked or not. They make their way into the episode. This one had all the promise in the world. I just didn't really explain the premise of show I didn't do versus show I do very well. Like I feel like it was a fair game to name either roles that she played specifically or roles she didn't do as roles she didn't do, but impossible to guess random unfamous lines from musicals or plays or a little snippet of Bridges of Madison County in the broader canon, which I think Jessie thought I was asking her to do. Luckily, she was a very good sport, but that felt almost as bad as the spelling bee refereeing I did on Celia when she was actually spelling some of those words correctly.

Um that combined with the fact that my deep dive question wasn't exactly an easy question. It just made the entire degree of difficulty of the interview a little harder than I would normally shoot for. So I'm sorry, Jessie. In season three, we're gonna up our game design explanation system. I promise it's gonna be better in season three.

[58:02] Charlie Murphy: Um, as far as a longer takeaway, I just want to expand on something Jessie said quickly about her early career training in Chicago. I think she defined it really well, but it's something our young listeners might gloss over. And I just think helpful for those of you maybe who are about to enter college, if you're in college or write a few years out of college, just to really think about what you learn in school is really about laying a foundation, but that those first few years of your career are really where you're gonna go build upon that and learn to become a professional. You can take as many business of the business classes as you want in school, but until you're doing the real thing, you just can't replicate certain parts of the experience.

It's like what we always encourage our students to do in preparing for college auditions, in the way that like we'll set up the structure of the year. You're gonna train with your coaches and prepare, you're gonna do a mock audition with us and get feedback, which is gonna help you improve with your skills. But even then, when you get to your first few auditions when they're the real thing, they will continue to be learning experiences. Of course, it's why we tell you not to put your favorite schools first, a common mistake people make in setting up their calendars. More on that. But the same is definitely true of your career. Like things like what it is to be a professional, how to interact with different personalities, what is sustainable on stage for eight shows a week, how to navigate a longer rehearsal process.

I remember being right out of school, I was shocked by how much I was thrown working with people of different backgrounds. Like in school, you're often working with a diverse array of people, but they are all similar and that they're all receiving the same training. And then you get out and you're working with some people who don't have any training at all at all, may have very different training, or sometimes like they're older actors and they just work in a very different way. It's really tricky to navigate if you haven't done that before. Um, and that's just like one example of the many things you're gonna learn professionally. Jesse gave us some more. You know, she also talked about how cool it was to be cast in things that challenged her to keep growing organically as she was forced to sharpen different tools.

Um, that's another way, of course, that the learning continues. But I think maybe it can take a bit of the pressure off to think you're not gonna have to learn everything you need to know to become Jessie Mueller in four years. That's just not realistic. Hopefully, you can acquire a skill set and a foundation to continue growing and learning in your career, but you don't have to have it all baked and ready to eat. You see how I did one more waitress reference before we ended?

[1:00:13] Charlie Murphy: Well, that's it. Another episode in the can, another season in the can. This one produced by our own grad degree graduate, Meghan Cordier, who's fulfilling the educational mission of this podcast by garnering extra degrees for her multi-hyphen itself. Congratulations, Megan. And for Megan's sake, please rate us and review us wherever you've subscribed to us in your podcast platform of choice, or at the very least, follow us at Mapping the College Audition on Instagram or MTCA on all of our other social media. Jesse doesn't have an Instagram, so if you have an impulse to go follow her, just follow us instead. Easy. And of course, if you want to check out MTCA for help with your college prep needs, you can do so at mtcollegeauditions.com. If you're craving more podcast content in the meantime during our break, please stay tuned to our re releases, or just go back and re-listen to your favorite episodes from the past few seasons. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys. Do you think I said the word beautiful in this episode? Too much? Not enough. We'll see you in six weeks.