This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's the Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Lisa and Steven Frohlich on the pod, a pair of alumni, been there, done that, MTCA parents, who've gone through this process and come out on the other side, all the wiser. These are episodes that I know our parent listeners really enjoy, and I get a lot of good feedback on them. So I'm going to keep bringing them on until you tell me to stop. And this is the first in a series of these alumni interviews I've talked about. I have one with a parent and student coming up and one with a family of three.

Oh my, all kinds of different combinations, different perspectives on the process. Though, of course, we're also going to weave in some of our regular artist episodes, meaning our, you know, fancy Broadway people. So you don't think we lose all our Broadway clout for our student listeners who I know enjoy those. But for our parent listeners, I know you do enjoy listening to other alumni parents who are BTDT. That's the phrase everyone uses, BTDT. I will say this episode is long. My takeaways are long. I couldn't help myself. But hopefully, you know, you're out there, you got a lot of dishes to go through. Maybe you're training for a marathon. Maybe you just got a really good gym session or whatever it is that you're working on.

And maybe you're going to really enjoy this long episode. I hope you will. I think the interview is great. The takeaways are great. It is a lot of content. As for me, my biggest life update is the downtowners of the Broadway Show League are back. We're back, baby. Once again, headed to the championship game, which will be a week from tomorrow as this episode releases. This is Thursday, September 3rd. So any of you out there, if you're in the New York area, feel free to stop by Heckscher Ballfield in Central Park. You can cheer us alongside some of the European tourists that'll be taking our pictures and all the weird things that happen in the Broadway Show League. We don't know yet who we'll be facing.

It might be Buckwald, which Buckwald is named after an agency, or Local One, which is the union of stagehands. But we are the last of the performer-focused team that made it deep into the playoffs. So come root us on. We love performers. We also have a lot of MTCA coaches and MTCA family on the team. I believe it's seven members of the team that are either coaches, former coaches, or married to coaches. So we've got a lot of MTCA family. A lot of love will be on that field Thursday, the 3rd. And of course, I'll be letting you know, do we take down a championship? Do I take down another MVP? I know you're all curious. You're going to want to know, and I will keep you updated. As far as the actual MTCA of the world, I hope you are still loving the high that you got off of the Summer Faculty Masterclass week, where I saw a bunch of you.

You also would have seen one of our guests, Lisa Frohlich. The fam was represented on our alumni panel, along with Mia, her daughter. And I hope that all of you out there are at least, you've gotten all the emails, but at least planning for your mock audition. Make sure you plan for that mock audition this fall. I know the focus right now is, as it should be, on apps and pre-screens. That's where all you are right now as you listen in August. But please make sure you're thinking ahead to which mock you're going to do. It's going to be here before you know it, and I don't want you to miss out on the date you need, and you all need a mock. Other than that, I hope you're all navigating the end of summer smoothly, and I hope you enjoy this episode with Lisa and Steven Frohlich.

[3:46] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Steven and Lisa Frohlich. Lisa went to school at Ohio Wesleyan University, where she got a BA in Theatre, Sociology and Economics Management, and is a fashion stylist and editor. Where Steven went to Skidmore College, got a BA in Business Administration, and a Master's in Public Health and Public Policy from NYU. And he is the founder of Parabolic Performance Rehab, which is a physical therapy practice, or maybe a chain of physical therapy practices. We can chat about that a little bit. But most importantly for our conversation today, they're both the parents of Mia Frohlich, here representing a family that really crushed this process as a whole. Which I'm just going to say to all you families out there, there are many of you.

It's impossible to choose between all of our children who did a wonderful job, but this was a wonderful family that we're really excited to highlight, and especially to highlight the two of you in collaboration with each other. So just to say, Mia has recently committed to USC for Musical Theatre after a truly great panoply of acceptances that we'll get into. Steven, Lisa, welcome on the pod. How are you feeling today?

[4:50] Lisa Frohlich: We're feeling great. Thanks for having us, Charlie.

[4:52] Charlie Murphy: Before I get into my series of many questions, and I grill you about your process, anything you'd want to add in terms of your perspectives coming to this, to your bio there, anything that I got wrong where you go, I didn't go to Skidmore, I went to whatever. But anything that you go, hey, in terms of your approach to this or coming to becoming the parents of a Musical Theatre kid, anything you'd want to add on your own?

[5:11] Steven Frohlich: I think we were really fortunate about three years ago when we bumped into another family that had used MTCA. We were unfamiliar with MTCA. That referral, I think, changed our lives and Mia's life. So I'm incredibly appreciative of you guys. But that really set us on a different path.

[5:32] Lisa Frohlich: We're in forever contact with that family too, by the way. We're still friends. And as far as other contexts, I didn't really talk much about this when we were going through Mia's process, but I do have experience in the theatre and I did work professionally when I was younger. Nothing was like what we just went through this last year. It's a totally different animal. And I had to really work hard, and I'm sure we'll touch on this later, at just being the momager and not working on the creative.

[6:00] Steven Frohlich: I like limiting yourself to momager. Still, even that is like a limit. I'm managing everything, but I'm holding on to just that. I am not giving my two cents.

[6:09] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love it. Well, you guys are so sweet that you're supposed to wait more than 60 seconds to give us the advertisement. They're supposed to have to wait until the 30-minute mark before you give the MTCA ad, but that was very nice. Let's talk a little bit, I want to talk about that point when you met us, because one of the things that I think is really special about this episode, or at least my intention in this series of parent-student episodes, is I want to get some different groups of... We're going to have three people together, both parents and a student, one parent and a child, and then the two of you. I want to hear about your collaboration as a family, and specifically from the perspective of the two of you, and thinking about the division of labor and division of skill set as you approach this process.

You get that recommendation, you meet MTCA, what were you thinking initially, in terms of as you're sitting down, maybe right after the initial consultation, of how the two of you are going to approach this process? I say that specifically because I know you guys started really early as a sophomore, so what did you both see the process as? I'll ask each of you in terms of what you were going to do over the course of the next two years to help Mia.

[7:14] Steven Frohlich: My role was very clear from the beginning. It was to take a backseat on this and let Lisa drive the bus, and I was consistent in that mandate, and I executed it perfectly.

[7:25] Charlie Murphy: Okay, Steve, you're done then. You're done. You're off the pod. That's great. I'll see you in about an hour.

[7:32] Steven Frohlich: No, no. Please go. Give it up.

[7:32] Charlie Murphy: Did that maintain for you that you felt like, hey, I was really... What does backseat mean to you in terms of your...

[7:39] Steven Frohlich: What I think is interesting is when you look at other dads, people are in the same role as me with musical theater kids. They're incredibly supportive of their kids. They might not know what the right answer is all the time, and they might not know a thing about song selection, and I think we're all experts now, but we didn't know much. Lisa knew a lot more than I did, but you... And then as you learn, I think that what's tempting is knowing when to be hands-off and knowing when to trust the process and knowing that Mia probably knows more about the notes on that song than I do, so just don't give the feedback, and that was in the beginning a little bit challenging because I'm alpha, right? I want to control things, but here, the sooner I learned that, the sooner I just knew my role, and my role was getting Mia to auditions and to Ohio and Virginia and all that stuff, so I was... My role was pretty clear.

Lisa has been sensational throughout this entire process. The amount of stuff that other parents and Lisa had to know, right? The spreadsheets, the pre-screens, that was all foreign, and she just learned very quickly, and she learned... She became an expert on pre-screen, I guess, different formats from different schools very quickly, and she just really embraced what she didn't know, and now, I think, is an expert in everything, but that was kind of where I was coming from.

[9:22] Charlie Murphy: And I want to get into Lisa's specific role, which it sounds like is more active, but just to name... You joked about backseat, but even in describing your backseat role, that's not an absent role, that even if there's some conscious, hey, I'm taking a step back from artistic feedback, but you mentioned I'm helping with travel and logistics, and I am getting them, so that even the people who aren't necessarily primary in the ecosystem of the family that makes it work doesn't necessarily mean that there's nothing to say. All right, so please, Lisa, get in there. How do you envision your role?

[9:46] Lisa Frohlich: Yeah, I would say what Steve said is pretty accurate. I went on the majority of the trips with Mia, and I took her to most of the auditions. Steve was kind enough to provide us with transportation and just overall feedback, as an outsider listening and assessing where we were going. When we'd come home, he'd always want the recaps. He started to learn the key players' names. He knew which program directors were outstanding, and he learned about families that were characters and families that were awesome. But I think I really took the role of the nitty-gritty and handling all the micro aspects of this, along with Mia, of course, and just some context for our family. We do have another child who is actually Mia's twin, and Mia's twin skipped a year when he was younger, so he's actually a freshman.

He just finished his freshman year at UVA, but he went to college very young, where Mia is the right age for going to college. So he kind of helped out with navigating Alex's college process, which, quite frankly, was going on simultaneously because we started MTCA so early.

[10:57] Charlie Murphy: Of course. So you're, as a sophomore, Mia, but then Alex is then doing the whole process while Mia's a junior. That's interesting.

[11:03] Lisa Frohlich: Yeah. So I guess, yeah, I did a lot of the nitty-gritty, kept her on track. She did a lot of the heavy lifting, obviously, on her own, but I will say that I give absolute credit, and I still doubt who are the kids that can do this all on their own. I'd like to meet them. I'm sure those unicorns exist, but I have to say wholeheartedly that I don't think you can get through this process smoothly and successfully without really investing in with your parents.

[11:31] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Well, can we get, I mean, some of the stuff you said maybe goes without saying, but for our newer listeners, when you talk about some of the micro that you did, you know, if we're talking about, okay, so Steven has really got the macro view, and I think there's some benefits that will be helpful to that. We may talk about the micro for perspective as you go through this process, but as now you're divvying between you and Mia, what was in Mia's bucket and what was in yours? When you say, I was the momager, you know, sometimes a phrase we use jokingly, but what were you sort of in control of versus what were you in support of? How did that work in terms of how you divvy things up between the two of you?

[12:07] Lisa Frohlich: Okay. Well, I mean, I handled all of like the travel arrangements, which get nutty, you know, and as experienced parents know, you're scheduling flights, you're scheduling auditions. You are, you know, trying to organize what happens if I get a call back on this weekend and another call back happens later on the same weekend. You know, the travel is a big part of it. And also just staying on top of the applications. She did all the work. I mean, she wrote her essays. She got the grades she did. She got, she was managing her senior year. You know, we'll get into later that she applied to some very competitive academic schools that don't always rely just on talent. So, you know, she had to keep her grades up.

That was her choice by applying to schools like Northwestern and UCLA. But the bottom line is I did, I helped her like stay on track with everything. And, you know, there was a point during the fall, like between September and December where that got really hectic.

[13:09] Charlie Murphy: Intense. So can you give us a little bit for those who don't know this process as much? And again, not that everybody has to do the process that you did, but what, what, what that means when you said travel, can you talk a little bit of what that means in terms of all the different places you went over the course of, let's say, Mia's senior year? And then I want to double click on something else. Let's start there. What was that? What was the overview for you from sort of September through February in terms of what?

[13:32] Lisa Frohlich: So, you know, in a nutshell, Mia applied to 37 schools, which people say, holy cow, why, what were you thinking? We started lower. We started at 20 to 25, but then she slowly added some BA programs that were of interest to her. We weren't entirely locked in on BFA, to be honest. You know, she's a great student. She has great grades. We weren't sure if the BFA was the be all and the end all. So therefore we.

[14:05] Lisa Frohlich: We offered it with really strong BA programs. You know, she was accepted to Northwestern, UCLA, Tulane, Wake Forest, Berkeley, UC Berkeley. You know, so we threw in some BAs that we were like, you know what, if this BFA thing goes bust, she's still gonna land up in a pretty great school. And then as the timeline went on, we also added, we were not gonna do private auditions in December, we were just decided against it. And then, you know, with the help of Amy Breslow, she kind of encouraged us to do it. And we locked in and did that. So those six schools added onto our list that we had to apply to, as well as all the BA programs. So lo and behold, our list landed on 37. And as far as travel goes, we really, I will say, like we traveled a good amount, but we were from the New York area, we live out in Long Island.

So we tried to lock into whatever opportunities we could do in New York. That was the way we saved trips, saved money, and took advantage of where we were geographically. But as far as travel goes, we were at PUA as early as early October, Pittsburgh Unified Auditions. We went to Boston, we did Emerson and BoCo, because we had been with you guys for a while, since spring sophomore year, we were ready, she was ready to start auditioning early. Sometimes kids aren't, we get it, if you come in later to the process. She was ready to start auditioning in October. And so therefore, PUA, Pittsburgh, Boston, we came into the city in December and did the six schools for private audition weekend. We did everything that was offered in New York.

New York Unifieds, NYU, Pace, Beloit, you name it, everything, Manhattan School of Music. We went to Chicago for Chicago Unifieds. And then we did a road trip over spring break. We did not go to Mexico or Florida. We went to Virginia and Ohio to see some awesome schools. These are busy, what you're into at this point. Yeah, and then finished up after some acceptances, we went back and saw a couple more schools. So it's a lot of travel, I love that. And I wanna double click and then I wanna get Stephen back in here. But when you mentioned the intensity, maybe especially surrounding the pre-screen application season, I think it can be really intense, during what, September through November, depending on when you're finishing this up.

What did that look like when you say, I was overseeing that process? If she's doing 37 applications and essays, are you zapping her with something to get her in the room? What does that look like? Are you managing the spreadsheet itself? Are you in the email? How are you actually making her do all the things she's gotta do?

[16:47] Lisa Frohlich: Well, we knew, I identified as her mom, like I knew right away that filming her pre-screens in New York with Matt Simpkins, who moonlights for MTCA, was gonna be the way for us to go. I mean, he's like one of our, when I talk about unsung heroes, he's one of them. Sing him out. We're doing a webinar with him tomorrow. Come on, sing him out. Let me tell you. Well, first of all, Mia did her headshots with him. So she established some comfortability. And for some, that can be kind of weird and uncomfortable, right? You know, you're taking photos with someone you don't know. But she like got along great with him, did her headshots early junior year that carried her through the entire audition season.

Right? It came out great. We didn't have to redo anything. Boom, we got like three or four great shots. So she knew him. And then we heard about the pre-screen process and how there are some families that choose to shoot in their basement. We shot all of her summer program stuff in the basement. We know what that's like, but she's a perfectionist. And I knew that shooting in the basement was gonna take months for her. I knew my kid and she would not be happy and she redo it, redo it, redo it. So because she had started so early with MTCA, we locked in on a date. It was like September 15th of her senior year. We knew she had to do PUA. She had to submit videos. We had to have those ready for the Pittsburgh deadline.

And we booked Matt. And it could not have gone better. And he was so good with her in the room to the extent that she got in the room, her rep was like in her body, ready. Her songs were comfortable in her range and she was singing this one song and her voice kept cracking. And for time's sake, we had to move on. Cause like we weren't gonna get the rest of the monologues and the materials and the different shots in if we did not move on. So we had everything in a bow except one of her two pre-screened songs that she'd been singing for a year and a half just was not working out that day. Sure enough, she emailed him that night. Thank you so much for seeing me. I'm really bummed about that one song but I'll shoot it in my basement.

He said, hey Mia, I'm in the city tomorrow. If you're still in the city, come in on my lunch break. Let's try another stab at it. She got it done on the first take. We were done in five minutes. It was just nerves, you know? So I can't thank him enough. He delivered a really good product for us.

[19:01] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, and I think for a lot of listeners, this sounds a little daunting if you're just starting this process but sort of knowing that you started as a sophomore, knowing that you had those dates in mind of when you wanted to get stuff done, it does actually almost make it easier to have the boundaries of like, great. So by September 15th, I'm gonna have A, B, C, D. Then there is a little bit of math that you can do. What do I need to do artistically to make that ready? What do I need to do organizationally? It then helps you start solving that a little bit. Steven, I wanna bring you in terms of the, as the micro got tense or got intense, how did you then see, you know, if we're going, hey, I'm here at support, what does support look like to a freaked out kid and to a mom who's maybe trying very hard not to overmanage and momager? Like, what does that feel like in terms of how you felt like you were supporting them through the fall, especially?

[19:47] Steven Frohlich: I think it was the voice of reason throughout a lot of it. Like, I think a lot of people from the outside, like my parents would always say, Mia, what's your number one choice? That's their first question. And what we've learned, and it's so true, is you cannot have a number one choice. It's, you know, you can have a list of schools that you're interested in, but unless it's reciprocal, and you're not gonna know that for months, it didn't matter. So, and as we got acceptances, every single acceptance that comes in, you recalibrate, right, and you're like, oh, you know, we got into this school, which was a, you know, PUA school. I'm like, well, if nothing else happens, that's our school. And then you get into another school that you might like more.

And then, so it kind of like keeps creeping up. And, you know, so at the end, I think, you know, I don't know if I was being a good dad or not, but I was like, Mia, rather than waiting for these like final two schools that might never come in for you, let's try to wrap our heads around you attending this school and USC is a school I'm talking about. She's like, I'm going to USC. So she was like, she just knew it. And so I, but I wasn't ready to accept that. I was like, Mia, we have to be pragmatic about this. Like, you know, can you see yourself at this school or this school or this school? And ultimately she was right and I was wrong. But throughout the entire process, I think you need a voice of reason.

And I think that it's nice to kind of take a step back because I was looking at like more academically. I understood what my son went through. You know, he's, you know, focusing on finance and he knew, you know, he ED'd his dream school. And it was like so linear. Her process was like probably the most challenging process I can ever imagine. It started with the pre-screens, it started with the, you know, the, you know, the PUA's and the Unified's and all this stuff. And like, you try to explain that to someone and they, you know, they think you're nuts. But I think that for Mia, it was all purposeful. Like she got better every week and every audition she got better. And certainly like all the work that she put into the dance and the song selection and everything, like she is so much better today than she was a year ago or two years ago.

So, you know, one might say it's performatory, but it's not, it's purposeful. And I think that having gone through this very arduous process, she's much more prepared for her next chapter. Yes, she will not go through something as hard as this for a long time, hopefully. But it's also sounds like you're claiming, which I think makes sense, a little bit of you owning some of the strategic elements of the bucket of it all. Even if you're going, hey, the micro version of that, maybe Lisa's leading with, but that you're able to, from a step back, go, hey, I think we're ready. You only have two left. I think we're ready to start making some of these decisions. That can be helpful to have a little bit of a bird's eye.

[22:42] Steven Frohlich: Whether it's for our son, right? There's what's called prestige maxing and there's finding the right fit for yourself. And for our son-

[22:51] Lisa Frohlich: Is there anything the kids say prestige maxing? It's like looks maxing?

[22:54] Steven Frohlich: Yeah. Prestige maxing. His term, not mine. But he's like, dad, look, if he wanted to prestige max, he probably could have gone to other schools. He wanted UVA right from the start. It was the right fit for him. And after the first year, it is the perfect school for him. With Mia, I feel like there's a lot of similarities with looking at schools. And what I try to help her understand is, it's not just about like the prestige of the school. It's about what is your four years going to be like? Whether it's things outside of the dramatic arts, whether it's football games, or the number of people in your cohort or in the larger cohort or in the school. What was very important to me was, have a great four years and don't regret anything.

But there are other amazing schools that we considered that were much smaller, that were like amazing programs. But I just think that her life would have been very different. And again, I don't know if she made the right choice or not, but I'm happy that she evaluated more than just, the program director or that she liked the dance instructor that one day.

[24:04] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love, I'm definitely stealing the phrase fit maxing. I think that's awesome. I think it's really smart. And of course, prestige can be part of that, part of what you're looking for. And a fit could be its reputation. That's gonna be part of it, but it shouldn't be the only thing. I wanna get back when we come to the deciding on schools, because there's a great conversation there, but you mentioned PUA and you mentioned number of schools getting up to 37, some of which at least had to do with the BAs you added, though I think you only mentioned like six-ish BAs.

[24:29] Lisa Frohlich: Yep.

[24:30] Charlie Murphy: So I'd love to sort of, if you could look back, this can be one or two questions, looking at PUA and the numbers of schools that you ended up doing as a whole, how did you feel about it? Because 37 is a lot. That's more than we recommend, certainly.

[24:42] Lisa Frohlich: 100%.

[24:43] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. But it's not to say it's a bad thing. I think it could be a great thing. Basically the question, and I don't know if I can say this number, you can tell me to edit it out if not, but we have Mia recorded as 25 acceptances, which is both amazing and unusual, but also Mia's really talented and did this process really well and whatever, so not shocking. And at some point you might say there's a diminishing return after a certain number of acceptances, but did you feel that way? How did you feel about the number of schools you did and the number of acceptance you got?

[25:10] Lisa Frohlich: She did, I mean, I will say, and she actually got in, well, I don't wanna be that parent, but she did get into more than 25.

[25:15] Steven Frohlich: Be that parent, yes.

[25:18] Lisa Frohlich: There are ones that you guys aren't even aware of that were more like just BA and academic driven. So yeah, I would say 37 applications, 28 acceptances, but I can honestly, okay, so I was in like a dark place during that crunch of application season because that was a lot. Perhaps we could have shaved off a couple, yes, but we didn't wanna give up the private audition weekend because it was so personal and beautiful. And what other opportunity can you have where you get a yes or a no two weeks later? It was the only immediate return we had all year. So my point is, I don't think I would change anything. Maybe Mia would, but I would say that we kinda needed to get through the 37 because as you know, when you're starting out this process, yeah, you think your kid is talented, right?

All these kids are talented. These MTCA kids are next level and that's why they're here doing this. But you don't know how your kid is gonna fare on that national stage as they say, right? We know she's her hometown celebrity, does all the shows, gets great parts, blah, blah, blah. But like, how are they gonna do when they get out into the real world of auditioning for colleges? So we baked in some schools that we felt confident with as you have to do. And then we had the high competitive go get them schools, which we wanted to do. So to answer your question in a long way, Charlie, I don't think I'd change the number.

[26:52] Steven Frohlich: I love it. And Steven, I wanna get your perspective too. It is worth mentioning, I say that like, you don't have to do that many, but also I do think a lot of parents will point out that like the difference between doing 18 to 20 and doing 37 is actually maybe not that significant. Might mean some more essays, but it's not once you've got all the material and if you're going to the places where, in the private audition, you're getting six there. Like if you're knocking off at New York City Unified, another eight, nine, 10, it might mean one extra flight to Chicago to make it happen. But it's not like you're doing double the work to get to 37 from 18.

[27:26] Lisa Frohlich: 100%. Once you get to 25, 37 is repositioning essays, as Leo says, like practicing around. And there are some schools that we applied to at the end, some of the PUAs, excuse me, some of the private audition schools that didn't have essays. So when you get really-

[27:43] Charlie Murphy: Right, and some of the PUA schools give you fee waivers, so it's not even an extra cost, yeah.

[27:48] Lisa Frohlich: No, we use every fee waiver available.

[27:50] Steven Frohlich: Of course.

[27:51] Charlie Murphy: What do you say? All right, Steven, what are your thoughts on the numbers now from that macro perspective, looking at 37? Did you feel like, hey, that was really nice? Even, I counted quickly, like 11 were most competitive schools. Were you like, hey, that was really helpful with scholarship negotiation, and at the end of it, or did you feel like it was nice, but we could have had half of them? I don't know that we needed all of them. How do you feel?

[29:03] Charlie Murphy: So I guess this isn't our thing. Like maybe we have to like, you know, play football or something. And she's like, Are you sure you check the scheduling thing on the thing? And then Lisa like opens her phone and sees that there were 13 callbacks. And one of them was in 30 minutes. Oh my god, I like they just like dropped everything never saw the show took an Uber back to, you know, the hotel, and then had her first callback. So it's again, it's like, and those are lovely schools. Ultimately, she didn't go to a school that was represented at Pittsburgh Unified. But again, if you know, we didn't know if she was how talented she was, or what the right fit was, or how this was going to play out. So I thought that was very valuable time.

[29:45] Lisa Frohlich: Yeah, I love it. And the point is, you couldn't have done one school and done it the way that she did, like, you wouldn't, you couldn't have just done USC, even though you're like, that's the one, that's the only one, you only need one in the end. But there's no version of doing this process of doing one school and be able to perform well, I mean,

[29:59] Steven Frohlich: But Charlie, there's a few of them, and you know, which ones they are that actually have an ED option. So early on, I was like, why are we doing this? Why don't you just do the ED option? Like you can, I can see yourself in, you know, whatever that town is. And like, you know, I was like, let's really consider this. And then I got overruled. And I was wrong. But you know, it again, like it would have been a lot easier.

[30:19] Charlie Murphy: But that's some good backseat. Again, I'm gonna compliment your backseat. That's a good listening that you're go I have a strategic idea. But wait a second, I do understand there may be a little more expertise that would say that's not actually optimal. What are we maximizing? And then we adjust it. So I'm going to give credit to the backseat there. Listening is just as hard as speaking sometimes. I want to take a little break. And then on the back end, we're going to dive a little deeper into some of these other questions. So we're back in the flash with Lisa and Steven.

[30:40] Charlie Murphy: All right, we are back with Lisa and Steven Frohlich. We're talking a little bit more about their process. I would love because you mentioned this idea of standout and Lisa, especially because you are a fashion brand, but no, you were calling it a fashion stylist editor, but there's brand strategy, I guess, inherent in that. I'd love to talk about from a parent perspective, your view on like how you help Mia stand out in this process, because I think it's something that like parents come to us a lot being like, specifically, hey, my child is not a unique identity. Let's say this is my child is female identifying white. They're not they don't necessarily walk in the room and have pink hair or something that's gonna like make them go.

They're gonna pop just on paper, right? So I kind of wonder, like, you know, certainly, there are strategic considerations or artistic considerations of some stuff that we know that's gonna be me as from your perspective, how did you feel like you you wanted her you know, if you say everybody's talented, you're yes, everybody's a star of their their show. How did you think or their their hometown? How did you think about helping her quote unquote, stand out if you thought about that? I'm gonna put those words in your mouth. It's just that that's the kind of thing that I think a lot of our parents are like, how do we rise above the crowd? And how do we there's so many people who want to do this? How did you guys think about that question and helping her?

[31:59] Lisa Frohlich: You know, I'm gonna be honest, I again, again, this is gonna sound a little bit like a proud mom moment. But she's generally when she's not on stage, she's, she's a quiet kid. She's somewhat introverted. She's nice. She's normal, right. And so I think that may have worked to her advantage in the audition room. I think that when she walks into a room, there's not a lot of, you know, smoke and drama. It's like kind of simple. And she's a very direct speaker. I think that what worked well for me is she's just, she really is just a normal kid. And I think that perhaps, I mean, some of the feedback that she was told through different program directors in school, she was really excited about, like saw that and thanks to MTCA and her doing the master classes and all that she got to know some of these program directors well, and got to see them three and four times before she even auditioned for them, which is unusual.

So I think the feedback she got was that they were like stay unique, stay you, you know, don't change. And I think as far as her as her brand itself, as a fashion person, I can say we have completely different styles, which I love. I'm a little bit more like hit you in the face with my style, but she's super, like, clean, conservative and understated, but in a good way. Like I said to her at one point, you know, are you gonna wear heels? Like, you know, I'm noticing some people are wearing heels in the room. Some people aren't. She's like, Mom, I'm five one. I'm sure. I'm gonna rock my five one. She's like, I'm gonna wear my sneakers that are, you know, clean and new, not like muddy, my white clean sneakers, and I'm gonna feel grounded.

And I wasn't questioning her decision. I just wanted to like, feel it out. And she had one look for all of her audition. She wore a bright color. She looks great in red and green and blue bright color, bright color body suit, bright color sweater and jeans. So packing for us was easy. Her brand was simple. There were no ruffles. There were no cowboy boots. It was just easy and functional.

[34:10] Steven Frohlich: Yeah, please even get in there. It's funny, I wrote three things down. And I think that the the first is and you just hit it, but color blocking. I didn't know what that was. But I think like when you wear a strong pink shirt, you know, it's like you can see where you are in the in the group of a dance audition. So color blocking. This is Lisa's words. And Lisa mentioned being likable. What I'm realizing now is that they are casting their, you know, their shows, but they're casting their cohort. And I think what they're looking at is they're looking at talent. They're looking at who is not a finished product, who we can coach, and who is coachable. And I think that when you're in the room, and you take notes, and you are agreeable, and you're coachable, and you can adapt. That's what seems to me what they're looking for. So I think in that way, Mia stood out.

[35:05] Charlie Murphy: So beautifully said, and of course, you guys have, you've avoided my trick question and answered it so beautifully. I think one of the reasons I ask it that way, and I think it's helpful for parents to hear from other parents is like, you know, of course, the idea is you do stand out by being yourself, you do stand out by sometimes actually your your comfort with the ordinary with not trying to be too in being so extraordinary or have to be so off the wall, if that's not who you are, if you go, I am a really nice, if I conservative, if that's the way that I choose to be that you can stand out that way by just being comfortable in your own skin. I think I used to sort of say that more adversarially to our parents, like I would watch our parents struggle with like, how's my kid gonna win the room before they get in the room.

And I would be like, that's not how it works. Leave them alone. They're doing fine. I will say now as a parent of a toddler who just went through this process going through the kindergarten of it all. I deeply empathize now with the parents instinct of going, my kid is so special, but you have to see it. How are you? How are they going to see how special my kid is? I just really do understand the feeling that our parents often

[36:08] Steven Frohlich: It actually started about 17 years or 16 years ago, when they were applying to preschool. And, you know, Lisa's like, I got this, I'm going to get them into this preschool. And she, she actually put them both if they're twins, at the time, like they were in the same year, she put them in matching, they were having to be Burberry outfits, but they were the cutest ever. And like, I don't know what they were looking for. But the outfit is what got those kids in Burberry, of course, we control that's what we can control. I mean, I've told the story already on the pod in the blog I wrote, but you know, the number of times I tried to squeeze the fact that my wife is a Grammy Award, and I still wouldn't get her into the special music school.

It didn't help. I need to actually have the child in the actual room. It's fine. I'm not bitter about it. I'm over it. But yes, that's so well said. What about can we talk a little bit about your relationship with online consumption of information? Were you guys on the Facebook groups? Were you on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube? Or how were you consuming other people's information or just information about these schools and about this process?

[37:14] Lisa Frohlich: Yeah, um, I was following along on a few different, you know, channels or vehicles, like, I use your podcast to learn more about programs, to be honest, we did not, as I mentioned, like, the way we spent money where we needed to spend money, and that was through coaches and through Amy Breslow and Matt Simpkins, best money ever spent, Amy and Matt, but we saved money on travel. And that was my thing. I was like, I can't just do it all. Like we, we saved money on doing as we didn't do things on campus other than you know, those that Boston one, everything was done at Unified or in New York City.

[37:51] Steven Frohlich: The Facebook groups, I think are very helpful, because you realize, you know, that people are in the same situation, and they're, you know, what might be a silly question is probably a question that we had to. So I, you know, it's funny, I think Facebook has sort of left my life. But in the last, like three years, it's entered back because of the communities and these like groups, whether it's, you know, a University of Virginia group that I'm involved in, or, you know, MTCA, they're, you know, and now like going through it, you know, it's like, when when there's a newer parent that like has a question, I'm like, eager to like write a response. And Lisa's like, Steve, you, you're not allowed to respond on this. You know, on the MTCA, don't embarrass the family. But like, it's, you just want to help and you want to help the next generation.

[38:36] Lisa Frohlich: I will say the MTCA Facebook group and Instagram is like, so well done and manageable. There are some others that are like, not so much, and I'm not going to like bag on them. But there are some other forums that involve thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And I made a point of only checking it. I didn't check it at all. I think I discovered it in like December, January. And then I made a point of only like popping on it once a day or once every other day because it can stress you out. And there are parents that brag and you know, talk about the amazing acceptances their kids have. And that's great. Good for them. Awesome to you. But to parents that are struggling, that's not always what you want to hear.

So I think, you know, I checked the ones that were like, you know, a lot of that maybe infrequently, MTCA, Instagram and Facebook page were very helpful to me. And you know, we had we had a there was a unified WhatsApp group that you guys started that was so helpful. Some parents were like, pioneers of just like putting in Oh, this is having a walk in this is having a walk in, like just it was a beautiful situation to see a community helping each other. Like, oh, you know, so and so Miami's having walk in so and so is having walk ins like JMU just canceled because of the snow, but they're doing it on virtual, like it was everyone just helping each other out. And so I will say those platforms, for me were tremendously beneficial.

[40:04] Charlie Murphy: For those listening 10 years in the future this this year, New York City had an absolute blizzard this. So for those who experienced New York City, unified went on, I mean, some Broadway shows canceled, but unified continued. But there was a couple, you know, people would miss appointments. And so opportunities came up in the blizzard of it all.

[40:20] Steven Frohlich: Boy, that was fun. That was a whole set of that's a whole podcast in itself.

[40:23] Charlie Murphy: Not really, that should be a recap of the the weather of it all. How did you guys manage your and Mia's mental health through the process? So was there any specific attention to you mentioned that the stress of having to get those things done? You know, obviously, you guys had success relatively early and often throughout the process. So it's not necessarily as painful as some other experiences. But were there moments where you were supports to each other where you were supports to Mia where you let yourself be punching bags? How did that work in terms of how you navigated your own mental health?

[40:56] Lisa Frohlich: I mean, I will say like, I can sense when Mia gets nervous quickly, because she gets very quiet, like quieter than normal. I can see she almost looks like she's like holding her breath. And there were certain times where I could sense that she was really nervous. And I, like remembered what Leo said in our seminars and our talkbacks about just being there to help them with whatever they need. And if they don't need anything, don't talk. Right? I knew from you guys, you recommended when she gets out of an audition, and if it goes well or not, well, don't ask. Yeah, let them tell you when they're ready. And that was hard for me because I was like, what's going on? How did it go? You know, I had to not do that.

And just say, Are you hungry? Do you need to go back and rest? I fully trusted that she was giving her all in a room like there wasn't anything I needed to do to say, Hey, could you have done that better? All these kids at MTCA are going in there with 120% they want to do deliver the best audition or the best masterclass that they can. I just needed to watch her when she was struggling. And that was mostly with nerves.

[42:15] Lisa Frohlich: I'll never forget we were at the final callback for USC in LA, and USC's callback process is different than other schools. So they get the same amount of crazy amounts of applications. They get like somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 applications with prescreens like every other school, but they don't have a callback. They don't have a prescreen pass. You either come to the final callback or you get cut. So then, lo and behold, Mia makes it through, and she's one of 50 kids from 1,500 in LA. And we had a great time. We arrived early. We went and saw her friends, all MTCA grads that were older. The day before, beautiful, having lunch, enjoying the sunshine. We walked into the room at 8 a.m., and all of a sudden, she was like white as a ghost and quiet.

And I looked at her and I said, Are you okay? And she's like, Mom, the level of talent in this room is insane. You all start to figure out the players. You all know each other from different things and different summer programs. And I knew she was really nervous. And I just said to her, You know what? You got here. You're in this group of 50. That's a win in itself. Just have fun. And you have to kind of keep reminding your kid like you're doing a lot of things really well, and there's going to be a place wherever it is. Try to take some of the pressure off yourself.

[43:42] Steven Frohlich: Yes. The other thing to do is that you talk about Mia's mental health. And of course, we're there for her. But the friendships that she's made throughout this process, I mean, going to, you know, Pittsburgh Unified, Chicago, like she's met dozens and dozens of people just like her, like these are her people. And among her best friends right now are the people that she's spent the last two years with or a year and a half with. And I think she's really relied on them. And then also, like, they've gone through their process. And, you know, one of them is incredibly talented, and then, you know, didn't get this school. And like, they're just there for each other every step of the way. And I think those relationships are very valuable.

And I'm looking forward to Mia, you know, fostering those next relationships that she's going to have at USC, because USC has a small cohort, but in a larger dramatic arts program. So, yeah, so she's, you know, and to me, theater kids are just really supportive of each other. And it's a good group. And what about you guys? So when you're out there watching your heart on your sleeve, walk into the audition room, you know, pale white, and you're so proud of them. And is there anything that you did to take care of yourself? Like, are you going to get a massage? Are you going to go yell at Steve and be like, hey, you have to release some of this on you? Like, how do you deal with your own? Because I know the parents go through this really stressful time.

You'll see parents handling it in all different ways. And everyone's entitled to their own journey, right? So for me, as an outgoing, extroverted person, for the most part, I actually wasn't so in auditions. You know, there are parents who get together in audition rooms and, you know, chat and, you know, bounce things off of each other or talk about this and that war stories, highlights. I just kind of like, left the room, left the building or locked in and worked on my computer. I found the best way for me to deal with it all was to not get involved in all the talk that happened at every single audition.

[45:48] Steven Frohlich: Yeah, granted, I've met some of my closest friends, you know, they're not a lot of them, but there are a few families that we bonded with and kind of felt similarly on, you know, with handled things the same way. My strategy to stay healthy was just to like, get her there, drop her off, say hi to a couple people, say hi to Leo, and then get out.

[46:07] Charlie Murphy: Yep. I love it. Steve, do you have anything specific on your end of ways you either helped or helped yourself?

[46:11] Steven Frohlich: I think it's all just like so therapeutic, right? Like, like on a typical Tuesday night throughout this process, we would have a discussion over dinner about Ithaca versus Syracuse, and then like all this stuff. And then guess what, the next day, we have the exact same conversation. It's like you're, it's like you're on repeat. Like, I wonder what we're going to talk about next year. But like, you just want to go in it together. And you're each other's resource. And you're bouncing all of these ideas. And the data doesn't change from a day to day, it might change from week to week. But we just, you know, we had each other. And I think that that was the best support that we could be. We're gonna have to get some TV shows for you next year. There's got to be something you're going to have to do something else with your time.

[46:48] Charlie Murphy: Okay, let's move toward you mentioned already the idea of how you came to a final decision. I'd love to before we get to that of like, how did you synthesize your auditions afterward? And then especially because you mentioned 37? How are we synthesizing the good auditions, and then organizing them because I know you didn't visit 25 schools or 28 schools, excuse me, you didn't visit 28 yeses. How did you go when you were going through the process now narrow those down into the ones that you're going to they may have stayed the same and they may have changed based on the audition experience. But how are you narrowing down? Because even just looking at the yeses ago, you couldn't have visited all these schools. And there's so many great schools that you have yeses to. So how did that happen post audition? And then how do you narrow down to sort of making a decision?

[47:27] Lisa Frohlich: Well, I guess like as we touched on earlier, you know, Mia did a lot of auditioning earlier, you know, she did like probably 10 auditions before January. And you know, as Leo recommended, like get be honed and ready to go for peak season. Like don't, don't, don't go doing your top choice in like November, right. So we, she got in her reps early. And, you know, I will say by December 25, because of the fact that she had prepped all of junior year with her rep, we didn't walk into senior year, having to find songs and dances and stuff like we were it was in her body by September. And so for that reason, she launched into auditions, October, November, December, and Christmas morning, she, we had, she had seven acceptances by Christmas.

So Christmas morning, good old Lenny Leibovitz from Otterbein emailed her an acceptance. This guy. On Christmas? On Christmas morning. I love him. You better not pretend to have rejections on Christmas. That's all there is. At Chicago Unified. And I'm like, your gift really trumped my like bathrobe and slippers for her. And he's like, I didn't even know it was Christmas. Anyhow, my point is, like we knew going into the peak season, she had some really strong yeses. And that felt really good. But knowing Mia, it didn't take the pressure off. You know, she wanted, she wanted what she wanted. And, you know, if nothing materialized past December 25, she was going to a great program.

[48:52] Steven Frohlich: Yeah, yeah. So I think that helped. You know, she got some no's that really stung. And honestly, like, that hurt. And you know, she, I think that might be a positive that turned into a negative, like, watching your kid navigate rejection is very hard, but also a tremendous positive that 17 and 18 years old, you can open up your computer and get a rejection from one of your dream schools an hour before you're going into nine auditions at Chicago, right? So I think navigating the yeses and the, you know, the acceptances and the rejections, you know, went pretty well for her. But the ones that were no's really stung the ones that she wanted, and it stung. And you know what, we just kept saying to her, but look at what you have, look at all these programs that did see you.

And that even the programs that rejected you might have seen you, but just didn't have a spot for you. You know, she didn't dwell on it. And as Leo said, we gave her the 24 hours or the 48 hours to sulk and be a typical teen. And then we said, we don't have time, like, let's go. Not in some cases if it's an hour before you're about to walk into Chicago Unifieds, which is a whole other conversation about the timing. Some of these schools can be a little more conscious when they do this.

[50:10] Charlie Murphy: Stephen, anything you want to add in terms of especially that synthesis process of the 25? How many did you guys end up actually visiting?

[50:22] Steven Frohlich: We visited a fair share. I will say that the schools that were top contenders at the end, we saw all of them. And I will say the tech guy over here, I mean, he's not giving himself tons of credit, but he's very good on tech. And when we did all of our spreadsheets and our final scorecard, as you guys call it, he did it and then put it up on our TV screen so that we were all contributing. And he was just like, he was like the moderator. Of course, me and I were like, well, I think and I think and I think. And he was just entering the data. And I think at the end that that scorecard had eight schools on it.

[51:00] Lisa Frohlich: Yep. And did a lot shift about, you know, when we first meet you, of course, as a sophomore, it really is a maybe not all the exact same ideas about what college is going to be. But, you know, we sort of asked for what are you looking for in a school? Like we try to make that mission statement of what you think you're looking for. Were there big shifts between the beginning and the end for Mia in terms of the schools that like you mentioned, the BAs? Was it more of a shift toward the academic from what you originally were thinking? And how did things shift from sophomore to senior year in terms of what was actually in that final scorecard?

[51:30] Steven Frohlich: Well, also, I think that Mia also attended two summer programs, three summer programs. She did Penn State, USC and Boston Conservatory. So, you know, I think when you're that young and you're sophomore, you're in your junior year, you're very impressionable. And, you know, you're there to get better, but you're there to explore the school and say, can I see myself here? I think sometimes people get kind of caught up in that, like, well, I went to the summer program, so they should allow, you know, they should accept me into their program. And really, I think we learned that the two really don't have a lot to do with each other necessarily. But I think that, you know, she had her heart set. I mean, look, she liked Penn State.

We had a great summer program there. Ultimately, it wasn't, you know, one of the schools that we ended up with. But I think that there's naturally you vacillate, you know, as new information presents. And as you get into this one school that you didn't think you were going to get into and you're like, wait, you know, that changes everything. You know, like our big moment, I think is like later through the acceptance process, we got into, I think, Ithaca. And like, we're like, wow, like, like, people get into Ithaca. Like, it was like such a like, like a dream to get in there. And then we recalibrated on that moment. And it happened to have been at a time where there were a lot of other acceptances like that week or that, I think, like, yeah, like that week.

So we were like, we were going to Ithaca for like eight hours until we, you know, there was another acceptance. But again, it's like, you just recalibrate. And at the end of the day, she knew, you know, she knew it was USC. And I can say that now, like, oh, we always knew, we did not know that it was USC. I did not think that she was going to get into USC. So I was trying to have her accept, you know, other outcomes that were not, you know, in California.

[53:22] Lisa Frohlich: Yeah, I love that. Grappled with the big school versus the small school, right? So she's got a brother at UVA, which is rah-rah and awesome. And every time we went, she would say to me, and she's been to visit him now four or five times. I love it here. I love this energy. I love this vibe. Yet they don't have a strong BFA program at all. So we knew she wasn't applying there, but she kept saying that to us. And then, you know, she comes from a high school with 130 students. She's in a small, tiny class of 40. And she kind of started realizing that she wanted more. And so we kind of ping ponged back and forth. But at the end of the day, like she got into two small programs that she agonized over.

Like agonized at the very end, you know, saying no to Oberlin and Shenandoah was one of the hardest decisions she ever made. Like, lost sleep over it. But at the end of the day, while she knew they would be outstanding for training, she wanted something that felt bigger than her high school experience. Or, you know, she wanted a little bit more of a community because she really lacked that, to be honest, out here in the end of the earth out here. So basically.

[54:33] Steven Frohlich: But that was the right fit for her, right? Like those are amazing programs and their program directors are terrific.

[54:39] Lisa Frohlich: And she would have loved it. But I think she landed on, I think a bigger school is the right fit for me.

[54:44] Steven Frohlich: And there is still a little bit of a loss in, even in the win, the gain of Ithaca. I mean, the gain of USC in this case, there's the, you mentioned the eight hours of Ithaca, very funny, but like, but like actors have that all the time of like, oh, I'm doing this role. Oh no, I booked this better thing, but I'm still sad not to do that role I was going to do. Like, even if you're like, I want this choice, it doesn't mean you don't see your future at Oberlin or you don't see what would it be like? And those classmates at Shenandoah, you might've met a different love of your life at Shenandoah. It's like, you've all these different lives that would have happened.

[55:13] Lisa Frohlich: Well, I think that's a really good point. Like it's about getting into your school, but you know, what's really hard is releasing the schools that accepted you and, you know, feeling that you're disappointing, you know, that program director. I mean.

[55:26] Steven Frohlich: That was one of our biggest challenges for her.

[55:28] Lisa Frohlich: And it's not a right or wrong choice. I mean, you're making a choice of what you want, but it's not in those cases you're talking about, you're down to three fantastic programs. There's not a, oh, you'd be an idiot to go to this over this. No, it makes sense. I could see yourself in any of those schools. I mean, very different, I guess, I brought up the academics, very different academically. And so I guess that's, that part of my question was if those academics were already in there, when you mentioned this sort of BA applications, I was like, was that part of what was pulling her also toward USC of getting to do a little? No, it was just about big school. We realized, you know, the BA contenders for her were really Northwestern and UCLA.

Those were the three that she got in, like San Diego and UC Berkeley were not going to be strong enough for theater for her. So those two were on the table and, you know, they're phenomenal academic schools. And I think we realized that Northwestern was the ED question that we had. It was the one where we're like, well, why don't you just.

[56:20] Steven Frohlich: ED here, we ended up not doing it and it still worked out for her. But I think we as parents realized that after we got through like January or February, it was like BFA or bust. Going through this process will teach you. If you love it, then you might go, well, I'm not ready to take a step back and do a BA. No way. Not for our kid. And we realized that we were kind of like in the background going, oh, well, wouldn't it be great if she got into some of these programs like six months prior to her starting the audition process? But after we saw the way she just tackled those auditions and the kids and the program director, like emails and all that, we knew there was no turning back from BFA for her.

You use the phrase fit-maxing already, but we've been talking a lot about like, what are you maximizing depending on how you do the process? To me, doing that ED, I mean, you could be ease-maxing. It could make your process easier, but you're not going to be able to be fit-maxing. You're not going to be able to go, am I actually discovering my fit to go, man, it sounds nice to only do one school if you get in. But I don't think it would have been okay because in her heart, she knew that she wanted to get into other schools and consider other schools and she would have always been looking back. So for her, the process actually worked out the way she had intended.

[57:37] Charlie Murphy: I love it. All right. As we move to wrapping up a little bit, I want to do, you're going to get a chance to review MTCA. You're going to get a chance to now, leave us Google review, all those kinds of things and that kind of review. But I want to hear about, I know you were dedicated webinar people. What was a bit of advice that you got from MTCA that you go, I absolutely, this was great. Hold on to this. We heard it a hundred times and I totally agree with it. And was there any advice on the flip side that you go, I heard this a lot and I don't know if I passed that on to other families. This wasn't as exciting to me as advice in terms of stuff that you heard from us.

[58:09] Lisa Frohlich: Okay. So I'm just going to like, I can say this over and over and over again, and not trying to kiss your butts over there, but like starting early was the key. Like starting early would be the advice I've already paid it forward. I have kids from out here going to see Leo now for consults. Like I'm just saying, like, I don't think I really, I questioned whether or not she would have the same results if we did not start early. So it is get in there as early as possible. And I know sophomore year sounds early. It is not. She met him in like April of sophomore year. She spent all of her junior year developing her rep, getting it in her, her dance or this or that. Some things came easier than others.

Some things she really needed to work on. And senior year, she hit the pavement running and not having to worry about finding new songs and monologues. Yeah. A couple of things came up as we went on. She needed a pop song, but she had the time to focus on one song and not four. Right. You start early in film, September 15th. You have to start early. I mean, you know, there has to be people your sophomore year, but you have to start early enough to make that happen over the summer. Like, you know, you have to, you need to take August of your rising senior, you know, summer and you need to knock out those essays. Okay. So that was great advice.

[59:21] Steven Frohlich: Anything that you heard that you go, you know, I didn't love this as much or for us, this didn't work or anything that you'd want to, you're allowed to give us notes. I promise this won't be terrible.

[59:28] Lisa Frohlich: My note is for all the other program, the schools that don't standardize pre-screen videos, let's work together to have the formats standardized so that everyone's life can just be a lot easier. That's my note for them. I don't, you guys have been sensational and just providing the structure and the expectations at every step of the way so that we understood how, what the process is. Of course it's daunting, but as long as you, you know, break it up and you understand like, all right, we're going to pass, you know, pre-screen videos. We're then going to, you know, song selection is really important. Let's get, let's get that and let MTCA kind of take the process over and just release. Cause I think a lot of parents control a lot of things. And in this situation, it wouldn't have been right for us to control it. So we, you know, we had to know when to take, you know, back off.

[1:00:15] Steven Frohlich: I love it. Just adding to that, as far as advice goes, this is like advice that I got from you and kind of had interpreted on my own. Again, don't get involved in their creative. You know, it's not your choice to pick their song or tell them how it sounds. Don't follow a program director. I mean, I've seen just in my two years with you guys, things have, things go topsy turvy, right? Like, and people come and go and, you know, Mia's joining a school and auditioned for a school that did not have a program director. Thankfully now they do, but in that interim year, they had two co-heads that were faculty. So things change. So don't get, you know, don't fall in love with a program director cause sorry, they may move. And that was good advice that you gave me.

[1:01:01] Charlie Murphy: What about to the other parents out there, as you've passed the name on of FTC, that's so kind, but even just as you know, families who are doing this process, what advice do you have to the parents out there of how they can support each other and support their kids in terms of stuff? It could be stuff you guys did really well, or any, if there are any places where you go, I wish I'd done a little more or less of this. Anything you pass on to parents?

[1:01:21] Lisa Frohlich: I know you've already given something. I mean, I'll start. I think that spend money where you can and save money where you can. That's my tagline, you know, invest in the stuff that's going to make a difference and figure out how you're going to save. And I'm telling you those unified, we're living proof in this family, you get acceptances from unified. Okay. So you don't need to be at Syracuse or, you know, Ithaca to get the expense, to the acceptance. I would also say like, they'll figure this out on their own, Charlie, but how fortunate are we through this incredibly hectic process to spend six to nine months with our child nonstop? I mean, in a mainstream process, like our experience with our son, this didn't happen.

Like we took some trips, it was fun, but we were literally with our daughter her senior year for so much time, like enjoy it. Yes. The creative part and all the auditions get stressful, but remember and enjoy those funny dinners and those, you know, funny memories that you have in the hotel room or even your travel trips, like don't go smooth. And this flight gets canceled. I mean, they all yielded like the best memories that I could have ever imagined. And I'm honestly next year, I'm going to really miss all the time I got to spend with her. So, so don't take it for granted and look at it. Don't look at it as, oh, there's so much to do, and this is so hard. And it is, I mean, a hundred percent, but I don't know, look at it from an optimist perspective. And that's how fortunate are we to spend this much time with our kid in their last year at home?

[1:02:59] Steven Frohlich: That's so beautifully said. Steven, anything you want to throw in terms of the backseat drivers of it all or anything?

[1:03:03] Steven Frohlich: I would say for like, for parents, even when your kid is in high school, put your phone down and watch their performance. I have so many videos that were never included in this college process on my phone. The microphones are terrible. They're going to sound awful on your phone. Just be there and enjoy that moment. And don't put the tripod away. You don't need that, especially for this process, right? It's what matters is, you know, how they perform in the room and kind of take some of that time back because those are really powerful times.

[1:03:35] Charlie Murphy: It's beautiful. Okay. My last chance for you guys to get back to those two beautiful ones there is to the kids out there. For our student listeners, what did Mia do well that was maybe, hey, this was great collaboration on her end. And is there anything that you would go, if I could give me a little bit of a note in terms of how to help my momager or how to help my dad going through this, what would you say to the kids out there in terms of how they can go through this process, especially as it relates to their parents?

[1:03:59] Lisa Frohlich: I think that, yeah, I think we have a kid who tends to procrastinate a little bit. And again, this touches on starting early, but don't wait to the last minute. Well, you'll hear the stories throughout this whole year and from Leo and Charlie about how the system crashed. Well, indeed, except it crashed this year, right? And you know, when it crashed the day before the deadline. So get those applications early. Don't be the kid that submits at midnight or 1155 because that is just not safe. So again, as a mom, it's going to be easy for me to say it. Try not to procrastinate. My kid did. You know, she got it done, but it was always like a day before, two days before. I did my taxes on April 15th every year for too many years.

Nobody feels so much better not to. I'm like, I feel so different. I'm like February and I'm done with my dad. It's fantastic. It's such a good feeling. So I say it out there, go. I mean, I think that for us, like I knew I had a kid who could push it off till the end. And that is seriously why Amy Breslow came in so handy for us. She was like the mediator. I mean, I already stated that I was the momager, but she was like, she kept us on task and I didn't have to always do that for me. You know what I mean? With the application. So don't procrastinate. And the best part and what she did well, I would say she just like showed up and gave it her all. Like she just embraced it entirely. Like didn't complain, got sick, flew, was throwing up in a taxi before private auditions in December.

Like you're going to navigate illness. Like, oh, don't think you're not going to skip it. Because some kid who doesn't get sick through this process is very lucky. There's always a cold. There's always a flu. There's always a sprained ankle. Just like, just grab it and embrace it because it's going to go fast.

[1:06:03] Steven Frohlich: I love it. Steven, give me the last word. Any advice for the kids?

[1:06:06] Steven Frohlich: For the kids, just realize like the people that you meet along the way are so important. They're going to be your friends. They're your people. They're not your competitors. They're your people. So realize in the moment that, you know, the people in the room, you know, take the time to get to know them. And don't let that time pass you by. It's valuable.

[1:06:24] Lisa Frohlich: Oh, can I add one more thing, Charlie? For parents advice, the been there, done that, the BTDT parents, which is all over the social media and the TikToks and the Instagram. Those are your biggest resource. Okay. You're in these auditions with parents who have kids the same age, all doing the same thing. The parents that you meet that are one year ahead of you in the process, like the mom who said to us on the line, waiting for the show at BOCO, hey, you should check out MTCA. Or the mom at USC who said, you know what? She should probably come to this audition in person. You know, like if it's going to be meaningful, those parents are the ones you want to be friends with.

[1:07:03] Steven Frohlich: That's so smart, right? They're not your competitive competition. They're giving back.

[1:07:06] Lisa Frohlich: Not competition. They are valuable. I mean, I tell the story too many times in the pod, but for our new listeners, I met my best friend who officiated my wedding and is now the godfather of my child during this process. I'm like, that is, when you say you're going to meet your best friend, like, yes, whether it's in college or whether it's right now, but you think, oh, in college I'll go off. I'm like, no, it was when I was 16 doing this process when I met my best friend. So it absolutely is true. Lisa, Steven, this was so fun getting to hang out with you a bit today. Thanks for the time. I really appreciate it.

[1:07:34] Lisa Frohlich: Thank you for everything, Charlie. Take care.

[1:07:42] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. So great getting to chat with Lisa and Steven. I'm not even going to pretend to be brief on these takeaways. These are going to be long. I jotted down bullet points that literally went onto a second page just of these little bullet points as we were recording. So I will promise to talk quickly, but I do think I could literally do like another hour long podcast just full of the takeaways. It's going to be like a Game of Thrones episode eventually, where it's like a 60-minute episode and like a 90-minute reaction pod. I certainly used to listen to that. I'm like, I'm getting six hours of Game of Thrones a week if I'm catching all the reaction pods. But OK, here we go. Starting off with a quick one, I really like that BA double click.

For those of you who are looking at different spectrums of audition-based BAs, maybe even non-audition BAs, the BFA liberal arts, the more BFA conservatories, if you're looking at that full spectrum of schools, I think it was Steven who gave a nice little view into the reason why you might expand your list a little bit and why you might have multiple BAs on the list, right? Especially in Mia not necessarily knowing what her ultimate goals were. I mean, you heard them talk about she wasn't necessarily sure she was up for the rigor of the BFA at the beginning of the process. Again, she started as a sophomore. And knowing that she potentially wanted academics, which of course makes sense given where she ended up.

But then as she went on, she did realize that she really wanted the BFA. And so that kind of narrowed the list a little bit. This makes a lot of sense. And it's why someone might have a list that looks like that and has more of those BAs on it. Whereas another family, if you know you want more of a BFA focus, which a lot of families know that's really what they want, you wouldn't need to have that same number of BAs if it was just about having a single non-audition safety on the list. So everyone's goals are different. Everyone's lists look different. But that's why you might have a list that has multiple BAs if you're exploring that as an option. And there are definitely reasons to explore that as an option, for sure.

I love and I deeply appreciate the commercial for Matt Simpkins and how great he is. Of course we agree. But just to reiterate, as many of our MTC listeners will have just heard me do a webinar with Matt and Dylan. Dylan is our West Coast videographer. That the goal in deciding whether you're going to shoot in your basement or shoot on your own or use a videographer should always be about where you think you'll do your best work. You do not need an edge by having anything that looks super professional or something that looks elevated. That's not what gets you into schools. They want to see you authentically as yourself doing your best work. So for many, that will happen when that technical pressure is off.

They don't have to be the technical director and come up with a shot list and do all that stuff. And they get to just act, right? Since someone is handling that for them. So for many people, that will...

[1:10:25] Charlie Murphy: Be the way that they are gonna show themselves off best. If so, great, like the Frohlichs, and that's what they wanted to do. But if you want control of filming yourself so that you can do 1,000 takes, since you know that's what you actually want, that's fine too, right? Whatever will make you feel like you can do your best work. And like Lisa said, if that's a place where you choose to save money, and it's smart to think, where am I gonna save money? Because this process can get really expensive, right? You will not be at any kind of disadvantage if you're filming with an iPhone. We always say, as long as we can see you and hear you, it's all about the artistic work, and it's not about the filmography.

I also, I really like Steven comparing this process to Mia's twin brother. You know, we often talk about how this process is not nearly as linear or as objective as the standard academic process, and the Frohlichs got an amazing control example for that. So for all those parents out there who go, this seems crazy, it's like, yeah. I mean, compared to the academic process, it is, I don't know if it's crazy, but it's certainly not linear, it's certainly not objective. It is all the things that are not those things.

[1:11:00] Charlie Murphy: I also, I really loved prestige maxing and fit maxing as concepts. You know, those made me laugh in the interview, and then when I was listening back, I listened back a couple, you know, I think it was almost a month later after the interview that I was listening back, and it made me laugh again. I forgot about that phrase, and so it got me twice. And aside from the kind of like meany term of it all, I do just think it's worth noting, I think I said this in the interview, but it's worth noting that if you don't check yourself in this process, if you don't think about it, you might just default to prestige maxing. That's sort of like the standard factory setting that a lot of our students will do if they're not thinking to themselves, what do I really care about, right?

The world will just naturally do that. There's just a natural gravitational pull toward prestige maxing, right? And there's absolutely nothing wrong with considering prestige, nothing wrong with considering legacy as part of your factors in a school and what you might care about. In fact, I think it is smart to have your eyes wide open to the way the world is gonna think about your education. How will you be perceived based on the name of your school? There's nothing wrong with thinking about that. But as any of our listeners will know, you know at MTCA, we are big believers in fit being the most important factor. Again, even if prestige is a bigger or smaller part of what makes fit, depending on your goals, right?

But just be aware that there is that gravitational pull. It might be helpful to you if you're someone who goes, I think I might wanna swim upstream. I might be one of those people who say, hey, I think this less reputable school is actually a better fit for me. Or as many of our people do go, it's a very similar fit for me and it's way more affordable. And if you're someone who might wanna make that option, just having an awareness of like, oh, I do, well, that's what's tugging at me. That's the gravitational pull is sort of, am I prestige maxing instead of fit maxing?

[1:13:07] Charlie Murphy: Okay, and I just wanna go on the record. I wanna do this for a while. So I'm glad to get an opportunity as we talked about the MT Parent page, just to say that we at Mapping the College Edition, and I really mean me, we are pro MT Parent page on this podcast. We are fans of the MT Parent page. I don't want anyone to get it twisted because I do think sometimes you hear little jokes, little comments, especially that the parents will make. I'm not making them. I like the MT Parent page, right? I think those are amazing resources. You know, the MT Parent page is how a lot of people find MTCA, right? A lot of our alumni parents are on those pages recommending us, right? And there is a treasure trove of information on that site, right?

And I think in general, I think it is a force for good, and there are some really well-intentioned people on there who are there to genuinely help. That is, I think, my opinion of the MT Parent page. You're just often gonna hear comments, and you'll hear little laughs, whether that's on a panel or whether it's a webinar or it's on a podcast with an alumni like this, right? Where people will call out when they say, hey, watch out for that. They're calling out the extreme version of things, right? But that's just true anytime you have thousands of people in a forum. You're gonna have some crazies, right? And again, the nice thing about that forum is at least it is moderated, and I think it is pretty well-governed, right?

But you're still gonna have some crazies out there, right? And even without, take the, I don't mean to use that word crazy flippantly. Take the idea of like individual crazies out there. Just being in that big of a group, which is a group filled with that much anxiety, you're just naturally gonna have the more extreme voices rise to the top. That's true of any group, right? The silent majority of great parents who are there to help will occasionally get drowned out by the extreme person with an extreme loud need, right? Whether that person is the one who's gonna go brag or is gonna exaggerate or insist they know all the answers, demand the answers, whatever it is, right? It's just the nature of the internet and the nature of social media, right?

I mean, I like to use the idea of like, is Reddit a great forum? I think Reddit is a fantastic forum, excellent information, but there is some wild stuff on Reddit, right? Would I say every post on Reddit is a good post? Of course not, right? But taken as a whole, I think it is extremely useful. It's what's filling all of our AI is all coming from Reddit at this point because there's great resources on there. It is generally a helpful resource, right? But anytime you hear me ask questions about how parents navigate it, I wanna be clear that's from the context of being very much in favor of that page and very much in favor of the people who run it, who we are friends with. I know there are other pages.

I don't know all the pages. So there may be some pages that really are, maybe there's some darker corners of the web, but I don't know all of them, right? But when I'm asking those questions, it's not really about the page. It's really like how I would ask artists guests, how do they navigate social media when all their friends are posting about the jobs they book and all the auditions that they're doing when those artists are sitting there going, I'm not getting auditions. I'm not booking jobs, right? That's not a criticism of those actors who are out there posting about their jobs. They should be. They should be telling the world about, look, I'm singing at Carnegie Hall and look, I just booked this amazing Broadway show. That's them using social media correctly, right? That's not a criticism of those people. That's not a criticism of social media, but it is a recognition of how it affects us as individuals.

[1:16:25] Charlie Murphy: You know, I always, my favorite rule of thumb with social media, and this is true of whether it's broader outside social media or it's internal pages, it's just the idea of like, keep checking yourself of like, am I using this or is it using me? And certainly I didn't invent that idea, right? Am I using this or is this using me? Am I using Instagram right now positively to improve my life? Or is someone making money off of me because of my mindless click and it's using me as the product or I'm being consumed instead of being the consumer? And with that forum or really any forum, that question of like, am I gleaning information? Am I coming here to ask a question and glean information or am I just feeding my anxiety?

Am I doom scrolling and reading things that are just making me more anxious, right? That can be a subtle difference, but I think that question is helpful to ask yourself and to hold on to that idea of like, am I using this or is it using me, right? And then if you find for a little moment that it's using you that doesn't mean you have to throw it away, but maybe then you figure out, how do I take a break? How do I set limits? Maybe you need to mute it for the craziest moments of the process in that January, February time when you're feeling the highest anxiety, whatever the case is, maybe. But again, all of that takeaway was just to say, we are pro MT Parent page at Mapping the College Edition.

We are pro parents helping parents in whatever form they're gonna do it, right? Whether that's the kind of direct mentorship that Lisa talks about, whether it's the great ladies at PUA who we love, who are there to give back, help the next generation. We're for all of it. We're pro those forums. I just wanna have that on the record officially on the record for the five of you who care.

[1:17:55] Charlie Murphy: Okay, and just a note on the cryptic USC specifics that you heard Lisa opened up that door. This was, again, recorded a couple months ago when it first recorded. So just that idea Lisa mentioned of like not putting your eggs in one basket for a single program director to not think, hey, I'm going to this program just because of one human being, where that's certainly the case for USC was they were recruited by a different person and now taken over by Michael Mendez. It's good advice and you just never know who might be moving from year to year. Even people that you go, well, they would never leave. They might, right? You never know, right? But I will just say in terms of the specifics of USC, we will be having Michael Mendez on who's now the new head of USC to talk about the specifics of USC.

We just booked him and I think we're gonna have that episode out next spring. We're just giving him a little chance to get settled, get his feet under him as we often like to do when someone takes over a program. But we will, of course, have USC represented. Just another example of you never know. You never know and so you don't want to make a decision just based on a single program head.

[1:19:00] Charlie Murphy: Okay, and I think I mostly said this in the episode, but I still jotted down that bullet point about that question about brand and how to stand out was really intended as me trying to voice that little internal monologue voice of anxiety that I hear many parents asking us over the years, right? I often phrase it as the idea that it feels like parents are trying to get an edge or something else. It's like they're trying to win the audition before it even happens. They need a leg up before they even enter the room. And I would just say that's not how this process works. What Lisa said is exactly right, of course, and we've talked about it a hundred different ways in what it is to truthfully and authentically be yourself and not to try to search for a trick because searching for a trick or that edge, often that gets in the way of your authenticity, right?

And I will always say it is a really tricky line. It's not like this is a trick and this is not a trick, right? It takes a bit of experience to navigate because I do think the difference between exploring something interesting about yourself, exploring something unique about who you are, your identity, or something that's really true about your human self that is different or that is off the beaten path is wonderful, right? It's just when you push that artistic process, when you push that idea of what is unique, if you do it artificially, it's just going to ring hollow, right? If you're that kind of spunky kid who wants to wear a corduroy blazer to your audition, it could totally work for you.

I'm thinking of a student who I'm like, that was so cool that she wore this cool corduroy blazer, right? But if you force that choice, it's going to feel forced, right? And the problem is when you listen to people who've gone through this process before, especially most people have only gone through this process once, they will tell you that they know for sure they got into Michigan because they wore that specific funky outfit or they use this specific unique rep choice and it's the rep choice that got them into school or whatever they think the trick was for them. To some extent, there can be some truth to that because for them, the personality that they had that could authentically support that funky outfit or that could authentically support that interesting rep choice, absolutely was a contributing factor to their success, but that's their success and that's their personality.

You going out there and trying to mimic it, it just isn't going to work out successfully, right? And the vast majority of our students, again, this is why I thought I loved, why I asked the question, why I like what Lisa said about Mia, right? The vast majority of our students who do go on to have incredibly successful journeys do not necessarily have that kind of big flashy gimmick. They walk into the rooms confidently as themselves and they trust that they are enough, right? That is most of our students. Again, it's not to say if there isn't something fantastic and spectacular about yourself that you don't want to show that off in the room, it can be great, but you don't need it. And I think sometimes parents think I need the gimmick, I need the trick, I need the thing that's going to win the audition before I walk into it.

And I would say, if you can, the majority of our students who can really trust that if they walk in authentic as themselves, they are going to come out as unique because they are unique, of course. We all are unique, are we not?

[1:22:07] Charlie Murphy: Okay, and then I know, I just know it, I'm going to say this, again, this is a lot of me stating things for the record. I know how you felt listening to this, but I know you all hated that conversation about how hard it is to turn down schools for a kid who got into 28. Believe me, I know how you felt listening to that. You're out there listening and you're like, well, that's not going to be my problem. I'm just hoping to get into one school. I know, I've done this process for 20 years. I know that's what you're all thinking as you listen to that, right? And of course, everyone has different results and getting into 28 isn't exactly typical, but a lot of our students get into a lot of schools and do have trouble turning down some really exciting offers.

That's a very normal problem to have. It is the typical MDCA student's problem to have multiple good affordable options and to have a tough decision. That's our goal for each and every one of our students. Again, not that it has to be this high of a number, that has to be 28, right? But if you do have a handful of really good options that you are really excited about and you can visit and you get to agonize over them because they're hard to turn down, that is a really thrilling experience and it is typical of an MDCA student who goes through this process authentically and comprehensively, right? But I just had to say that out loud that I know you all rolled your eyes when you heard that and you all thought, oh, boo-hoo, must be really tough to turn down the schools, right?

I know it because every time we've referenced numbers and we'll say things like well over 99% of our students are gonna get into competitive audition-based programs, that half of the audience that I'm telling that to, if I say like, hey, how many of you think you're in that 1%? They raise their hand and think, I'm gonna be the exception to the rule and not get in anyway, right? I know that's how you feel, but in basically every case, you're wrong, right? You are much more statistically likely to be in that 20 plus category than to be in the zero. In fact, I will say this, if you're an MDCA student, you are much more statistically likely to be in the 30 plus category of acceptances than in the zero, right?

Even though again, when I say 30 plus, we do not tell you that you have to apply to that many schools, you don't have to apply to that many schools, but many of you still will and many of you still do and way more of you are gonna get into crazy numbers of schools than are gonna be in that place where you don't have an option at all. So if you can take solace in statistics, take solace in those statistics. But I know you can't, you're still listening to me and going,

[1:24:30] Charlie Murphy: Not true, Charlie. I'm gonna be the one who doesn't get into anywhere or maybe I'll have one option and that's it. So just bookmark this, come back and apologize to me a year or two years or whenever you're done with your process. Come back and apologize to me and be like, you know what, actually Lisa was right, Steven was right. It actually was really hard to turn out. I fell in love with a couple different options. I had some really good options at the end of it. That's gonna be you, listener. I'm telling you it's true. Okay, while we are in truth-telling mode of things that I know, I don't know why I got so aggressive in these takeaways. Maybe I'm trying to get through a lot of them, but I'm getting aggressive in these takeaways.

We're getting pedantic in this section of the takeaways. We're just doing it, but I'm gonna tell you things that I know that you don't know. Did you catch Lisa talking about how you were all going to miss this process? Now some of you are gonna believe that. More of you will believe that than believe you're gonna get into schools. You're gonna think you're all gonna not get into schools, but more of you will believe that you'll miss the process and be able to take it and appreciate it, right? But I will say I've heard many parents tell me that when they hear other parents, because again, that's advice we've heard a lot. Parents telling other parents, hey, you're really gonna miss this precious time, and they're gonna go like, oh, kill me.

I mean, this process is so stressful. I can't wait for this process to be over. But then I've had those same parents so many times reach out a year later and say, no, actually that parent was right. I really do miss it. Actually, it was really precious time. You know, like a war, at times it can be very hard to get through, but then we look back nostalgically and go, well, there's a band of brotherhood. I've never been in a war. I don't know if that's actually a good analogy, right? But certainly this process, I've heard that many, many times. That idea of like, oh god, it's so stressful, so stressful. I just want it to be over, and then as soon as it's over, they go, I miss it. I realize how special.

I look back a year later and go, that was the most special time that me and my daughter had together. We spent so much time together, and we went through this like deep emotional, vulnerable experience together, and it was really special. Actually, someone said that exact quote at our alumni panel, and I jotted it down with that same idea of going, all these parents. I watched the parents hear it this time and go, no way. They laugh. They don't think it's true. They don't think that they're gonna miss it when it's over, but they are. Many of you are, right? I'm saying that someone said that because actually, I don't think it was Lisa. There's a chance it was Lisa, and I'm wrong, and I'm now double quoting Lisa that she said it both on this pod and at the alumni panel, but I think it was Maria, who's one of our other amazing two-time mothers who've gone through this process, and I was going through the process for a second time, or is not going through, went through this process for a second time last year, I mean, but I think it was Maria who said it.

If it was Lisa, then I'm sorry, and I'm double quoting her, but at the time, I'm sitting in an audience. I had that same experience sitting in an audience, jotting that down and going, these parents don't believe it, but you will. You will miss it. It's a sentiment I hear a lot. Not all of you. Some of you may just be like, that was awful. I'm never going through that again, but many of you, as soon as the process is over, are gonna think, that was really special, and I'll be honest, that is one of those pieces of advice I heard so many times from parents going through the process, and I've heard it about parenthood in general, about many phases. This is certainly a hard process and a hard, I guess, phase of life that you're navigating with your child, but I've heard so many parents talk about, you know, sort of not realizing how precious moments were when they were happening, that it's something I've really tried to take into my own parenting.

You know, I know I'm only having one kid. This is it. We're having one kid, right, and I know that kid is a lot, and she takes up a lot of energy. She's amazing, but we're in a phase right now where it takes up a lot of time and energy and sleep, and it is just so easy to go into survival mode. I watch myself doing it and go, let's just get through these few months. It's gonna be a hard couple months. Let's just get through it, right? You know, right now, Elizabeth's in a show, so she's doing eight shows a week, and I'm doing every night at bedtime, and there are definitely times I'm like, oh my gosh, I just got to get to October when, you know, I'll have a little bit of relief, and then I just like try to remind myself of like, I'm gonna blink, and this is gonna be over, and how precious it is to get to do every single night time with my girl, to get to sing lullabies and have this like precious girl cling on to me and love me in one every moment of time with me.

I'm like, I know I'm gonna blink, and that's gonna be gone. All of you out there, we're listening, you have teenage kids. You've gone through that experience. You've told, you've been like, yep, you blink, and then they want to push you away, and then it's over, and maybe they come back to you a little later, but that, you know, it's not that much longer that I'm gonna get this precious time. So I'm certainly trying to hold on to and cherish those moments as best I can, knowing it's never possible to fully appreciate a moment that you're in. I know that's true, but I'm trying to do that, and so I'll say that as best as possible for those of you who do have 15, 16, 17 year olds going through this beautiful, difficult, vulnerable process, if you can appreciate it as best as you can, if you can believe Lisa, and if you can believe me, and if you believe the dozens and hundreds of other parents who've gone through this, and who have said that exact advice to you, I do really think it's true.

But I will just say, as you see me having a little bit of an emotional reaction just thinking about all that, you know, listening back to this episode as a parent, I really, it was an emotional experience. I like, I teared up a couple different times just listening back to the episode. I mean, I do think Lisa and Steven are really great parents. We have so many great parents who work with us at MTCA, and go through this process. You know, I really love hearing them listening to and appreciating and cherishing their kids. I think it's really beautiful that they are able to do that, especially with their different kids and their different experiences. You know, I especially love and I want to commend and underline the moments of listening to and learning from their kids, in this case really listening to and learning from Mia.

You know, I think that's something to steal and emulate for all of us if we can as parents, right? To be able to be that guiding hand, but also be able to listen enough to the kid in front of you and see where maybe your leadership can adjust and improve as opposed to just insisting and knowing that you're right. And I find that more and more in the past few years as I talk to fellow parents in this process, that I have so much less judgment for them and so much more respect for how difficult it is to be a parent of an artist, right? In my 20s, you know, I've been doing this since my early 20s really, since I was even before that, but you know, guiding parents since my early 20s. I used to have a lot of judgment.

I used to really be like, what is wrong with you, parents? Like, why are you so invested in your kids' lives? It's not your life. Let's get out of their way. Let them, let your kid live it. Your kid knows what they want to do. Let them do what they want to do, right? As if like the parents were so often the problem, right? Man, oh man. I do now going through it, I feel that pain of how hard it is to watch your kid experience pain, to watch your kid experience struggle. Even when you know that pain and struggle is good for them, it is heartbreaking, right? And also just the impossibility that there isn't a right answer, right? You can listen to podcasts like this, you can listen to great advice from other people, not this podcast, that's not great advice, but it's pretty good advice, right?

But just, it's still impossible to strike the perfect balance of how soft and how strong am I supposed to be, right? How much am I giving boundaries? How much am I giving guidance versus how much am I giving empathy and how much am I giving understanding? You need some amount of all of that and it's put together and just the right mixture for the right moment and for your child and for where they are in the process and especially for you with 17, 18 year olds, you know, they're going through this moment of crossing the threshold and becoming adults and so how you navigate that, like, so I just have so much more empathy and understanding than I used to have for parents and just in terms of how hard this process is.

Okay, but we cannot end on that sappy of a note. How about we end with a couple less sappy ones. A big shout out to Steven on the schools and trying to make this process easier. Hopefully you all were championing him there, even if you didn't have any empathy for their experience of turning down schools, you probably were like, yes, you're right, Steven, thank you. Let's make this process a bit easier in terms of all those pre-screen requirements. I will say it will never happen fully that you're gonna get all the schools on board, but each year we do see small incremental improvements, right? And those really can help. I mean, it has gotten, it got harder a couple years ago and then it started getting easier.

There's still elements where an individual school will come up with something new that makes it harder, but it's generally moving in the right direction. And I will say, you know, from all of your perspective, you can continue to help. You all as listeners out there, you can help basically, essentially in collective action, right? The more that you are giving schools the kind of feedback of going, hey, I would have applied to your school if you'd accepted the four pieces I already had filmed instead of making me do another new difficult thing, right? Or, you know, realistically for most of you who are still going through the process listening to this, maybe the nicer version is just after the process, on the way out, you might give a feedback, you know, maybe for a school that you're not gonna attend afterward that you might say, hey, by the way, could have made this process a little easier if you'd done X, Y, and Z. I mean, schools will try to listen, right?

They're much more likely to react to improving themselves and improving the process if they realize, hey, this would have gotten me more people applying to my school. I almost didn't apply because of X, right? If they were to hear that, that can't help, and I think that is what has helped schools. We've heard more schools talk in the past couple months and the past year about going, hey, I'm gonna loosen my requirement a little. Maybe I might still ask for my special requirements, but I also, alternatively, will take the common pre-screener. I'll take something else. It is a way that's helped, and that's because of you guys giving that kind of feedback. Okay, you also caught the idea of they got an acceptance on Christmas.

I'm sure you heard that. Thank God it was a yes. That was a much happier story. It could have been, I guess, hopefully it wouldn't have been a no on Christmas, but I don't know. I don't know. We've heard crazier things, right? But I will say in terms of the timing of auditions, this is another thing the school should listen to Stephen, and they should listen to me as I say this. Please stop sending out rejections in the middle of one of the National Unifieds. It happens every year. Not that many schools that do it, but every once in a while, a school will send a rejection right in on the middle of New York City Unifieds, in the middle of Chicago Unifieds. Even if you're a school that's not participating in them, come on, schools out there, you know a bunch of students are participating in them, and their students are going to be opening that email in the middle of an audition.

They've got an audition an hour from now, even though students don't do that to yourselves. You should not open the email. But still, we can all do it while we're solving collective action problems. Let's stop sending out acceptances and rejections in the middle of Unifieds. Acceptances is okay. Acceptances isn't so bad, but don't send a rejection in the middle of New York, Chicago, LA Unifieds, if at all humanly possible. And speaking of Unifieds, finally we've arrived at the end of the longest day quiz ever. Did you get catch that Lisa said they did all of their auditions at Unifieds? I think it was all of their auditions, except maybe one they done in the fall, and then they did our private auditions in December.

But even our private auditions in December, that's six schools in one weekend. It's still an efficient six schools in one trip situation, right? That means that, except for that one school in the fall, I guess, that they did, that they were not traveling to individual schools and individual campuses to do all these auditions, right? That really means that the travel, the time they traveled to those schools was part of their accepted students visit, right? And Mia got into 28 schools. I keep saying 28, I think that was the final number she said. We had 25, and then she's like, it was actually a couple more. So whatever it is, she got into a ton of schools, right? So there you go, the living proof of what we always say, that you do not have to make those individual trips to make yourself crazy and make your schedule insane to get into these schools.

You absolutely can do this, and a lot of our students do, do the vast majority of their schools at Unifieds, or in this case, basically all their schools at Unifieds. That is more common than doing a lot of schools individually, right? You know, we always talk about it is a much more productive visit, too. You're gonna get a lot more out of your visit doing an accepted students visit when you know you're in, and you can really be a customer, as opposed to when your focus is just on the getting in part of thing. When you're there to audition, it's hard to really be an objective observer of the school when you're going, God, I hope I get it. You know, you're in that phase, it's much harder to be an objective comparer, right?

And I know a lot of our students, even if they did go to campus, they might go back. Not always, you don't have to go back if you've already visited as a part of your audition, but a lot of schools, you know, they make, when they're agonizing over the last two or three options, and again, because you're all gonna have multiple options out there, though you don't believe me, but when you're in that phase of it, sometimes, well, people go back. They go, well, then I didn't accepted students visit these two, so I actually thought it was only fair that I do an accepted students visit and really visit and take classes and do all that kind of stuff for my other third option where I did an on-campus audition.

So just to say, it is really possible, you really can do it, and Lisa shouted it out that Mia is living proof. Okay, I don't know if that was actually my longest takeaway on record. It might have been. It was definitely my most bullet points. I've never done that many bullet points, right? I tried to talk quickly. I think I did talk quickly, but also, no apologies, because you out there, you all tell me you love the takeaways. You only get mad at me when I apologize for the takeaways. You tell me again and again. You say, stop apologizing. I love the takeaways. I would do, you know, an hour-long takeaways, but you do want me to keep those school episodes snappier. That, I've heard you do agree that those could be shorter episodes, especially the students over that.

I know, and I'm gonna do my best moving forward. It's hard to cut those professors off sometimes, but it is not hard to cut off this episode, which was produced by Megan Courtier and Kelly Prendergast. Please follow us at mappingthecollegeedition on Instagram if you want some great content, and boy do we have a lot of great content, and please like and subscribe wherever you watch or listen so you don't miss a single episode. Please don't miss an episode. We have some exciting ones coming up this fall, and if you just love my long takeaways, consider leaving us a rating and review and telling us all about it on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and as always, check us out at mtca.com for the help that you might want with your individual college process, and so that you too can have the arduous problem of turning down 27 schools. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, please trust that you're enough for the right program exactly as you are right now. Now keep striving. We'll catch you next week!