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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Edition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Editions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got MTCA's own Marcus Crawford Guy on the podcast. For our new listeners, another one of our artist exploration episodes where we aim to explore the path to success that our artists are forging and tease out how their theatrical training has helped them to blaze that trail. And for those watching this video, and I think with the audio, you're going to hear a few of this too, a few blips in different moments where maybe it sounds like a Zoom call. Unfortunately, Marcus was deep in the mountains doing a bit of self-care as he recorded this.

I mean, fortunately for him, bravo to him. Some time of year helpful thoughts of taking care of yourself. And really a few of our next artist pods are going to be more directly about taking care of yourself as well. And I do really want for all of our seniors right now, even if you can't literally take a trip to the mountains, to just think a little bit about taking care of yourself. But sadly, the lag of this mountain home where Marcus was made the video quality not quite as beautiful. And for those who know him, he's quite a beautiful man as those, you know, can attest. Right. And although you will still get to, I think, hear his prodigious intelligence in all of his longer answers. And you're really going to get, I think, a great sense of Marcus in the podcast, you know, in real life, both Marcus and I are quick on our feet, great with our banter.

And you're not going to hear like the fullness of some of the back and forth kind of frivolity that we tried to do. You know, I would try a couple of jokes here. And then basically Megan had to cut some of these, like me doing under your breath, like jump, jumping in and saying this. And Marcus is like, huh, sorry, we said it again because of the lag. So we just lost a bit of our wonderful jovialness. You may notice that lag in a couple of different places. But I do think for the most part, it's a great interview. And you can really you get the sense of it, even if you don't get all of our quick quips back and forth. Basically, what I'm saying is you're going to have to wait for the next Meet MTCA workshop to get our fully timed up hilariousness.

And speaking of that, what a transition. You know, our next Meet MTCA workshop is this January 20th with me and this very Marcus on this episode. That's January 20th at 8pm Eastern. That's a Tuesday. Often they're on Wednesdays, but not this time. It's Tuesday, 8pm. And it's absolutely free, just like this podcast that you're listening to. But unlike this podcast, no advertisements at the Meet MTCA, except I guess for MTCA. But also like this podcast, you're going to have me, you're going to have Marcus and you're going to have a bunch of other MTCA members of our team joining via video for a jam-packed 90 minutes of MTCA awesomeness. You get to know the team, you get to know some artistic expectations of the process, and hopefully you'll leave with a game plan and some questions answered for the lunch, for your own personal lunch into your process.

So be there or don't be there. It'll cost you the same thing, which is nothing. Sign up at mtca.com. All right. I hope you all had some wonderful New Year's. We certainly did in our household. 2026, here we come. So much to look forward to this year. And we're trying to focus on the positive. I had a few really big resolutions, but the biggest one that I'm giving myself and I'm going to speak out loud to this podcast is just about openness and flexibility. I've started doing yoga again, which I haven't done with any regularity in way too many years. And I hope that six months from now, I'm still going to be doing it. And don't call me out on having stopped after two weeks. But whether I gain any bodily flexibility, the real reason for that resolution is not about flexibility in my body, though I'm not mad about that.

I am really trying to resolve to stay open to the growth and changes that 2026 and beyond could bring to me, could bring to my family, to MTCA, to the world. Can we be strong and firm in our convictions, but still open and curious to those around us? I hope that for myself and I hope it for all of you. And bonus resolution, I deleted a few apps from my phone that just had to go. Some of those apps had to go. And I did that trick where you can triple click like the camera button on your phone and it becomes black and white. If you don't know what this is, if you've never heard of it, Google it. You're going to set triple click to make your phone go black and white, which hopefully makes it less interesting to you. All right. This episode is long enough. So let's get to it with the one and only Marcus Crawford Guy.

[4:34] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are overjoyed to be joined by the wonderful Marcus Crawford Guy. Marcus went to high school at the Dance School of Scotland and then was the first Scotsman to attend the Juilliard School's drama division. At least he says so, again, all unverified on the show, where he earned a BFA with scholastic distinction before now earning an MFA in screenwriting at USC. A very educated man. He's been on TV and stuff like AMC, where he did Washington Spies, ABC's reboot of Get Christy Love, and as a child worked with the BBC. He's also been a teaching artist with Artists Striving to End Poverty, where he got to work with some great previous podcast guests like Mary Mitchell Campbell and Alejandro Rodriguez. And he is now, most importantly, a veteran and indispensable song coach at MTCA and a really essential leader within the MTCA artistic team. Marcus, welcome to the show. How are you doing? How did it feel to have your bio read to you like that?

[5:28] Marcus Crawford Guy: Oh, you know, as horrifying as I thought it would be. We even discussed it in advance. It was coming. You were prepared. It's just, it's a bizarre thing to hear it read back to you.

[5:41] Charlie Murphy: Ain't that the truth? Yeah. One thing, another thing to hear it. I often like to, I often sort of get that response from artists and normally I'm like, oh, that's a fun way to start the conversation. But really, it's a fun way for us to now get into some, two of the big topics we're gonna talk about today. One of which is, you know, I'm going to do a little speed round version on your journey to where you are today. We'll talk about international schools and some of that, but then we're going to dive farther into this conversation we've been having. We're doing this runner on like self-discovery and what it is to then project forward yourself and to hear yourself read in a bio and what bios you'd read about yourself.

So all of that will be some of the stuff that we've talked about on the pod a lot, you know, and I've wanted to have you on the podcast for a long time. I mentioned sort of for that international conversation, but truly your name screamed out to me. I literally was going, Kelly was, Marcus. I was like, this is who we have to have. This is the perfect person when we're having these conversations, some of which we're trying to have with relative strangers, but to now be able to ask them hopefully in a deeper conversation, I'm really excited to see what we can uncover. I've now made the gauntlet impossible that we've thrown down to match, but we'll see what we can do. Okay. Before we get into all that, can we just give me a little bit of, can you give me a 60 second version of like young Marcus falling in love with theater in Scotland, how you discovered it? Take me up to that point of like, you're going to be applying to U.S. colleges. What do I need to know?

[7:03] Marcus Crawford Guy: Absolutely. I would say if you've seen Billy Elliot, it's not far off. And you are who? Billy Elliot? And I'm Billy. Like I really wanted to be a dancer. That's all I wanted to do. And I got to dance through soccer or football as we call it. And, you know, my dad had lived abroad when he was younger. He lived in South Africa and was very much like, to me, my brother from a very young age, you should live abroad. You should experience what that's like. I guess from when I was like 16, I was like, okay, I want to be an actor. I want to do this. I had some weird feelings about going to London to study. I was like very adamant that I didn't want my training to change me. I wanted to become a better artist.

And I met Gail Rankin, who was the first Scots woman to attend a Juilliard drama. And she really just kind of planted a seed in my brain that was like, you should try this. At the very least, you should try this to give context to what's happening kind of around the world when it comes to training. And at 17, it was Juilliard drama was the idea, not Juilliard Potentially Dance. At that point, we moved on from specifically dance to think about-

[8:27] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, well, I mean, once someone tells you that you're struggling to like touch your toes, like you just have to swallow that pill whole. So yeah, it was something that I really wanted to do. I should also mention, and I think this is important, I had never been in the US. My father had never been in the US. My mom had been like once. And so the idea of me like wanting to move to America was like very outlandish. And so basically, my family booked a vacation. And my dad was like, you can audition for Juilliard on one of those days.

[9:09] Marcus Crawford Guy: Wow. And that was kind of, that was it. And I think everyone thought, we'll go, we'll entertain this idea, and then we'll come home. And 15 years later, I won't be talking to Charlie Murphy on the podcast.

[9:23] Charlie Murphy: But now what were the other options? If it wasn't Juilliard, was it was a school in the UK? Was it what's what were the other thoughts?

[9:27] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I so I was admitted to a couple of colleges in London, two for acting, two for musical theatre. And, and so I would have entertained those options. I ultimately the way it shook out, because the American college process works on like a faster timeline, I guess, or an earlier timeline. I found out about Juilliard early on. And so that just became that became the option. Like that, that was what that was what I wanted to do. There was another school that I was on the waitlist for that would have been free. And I imagine that had I come off that waitlist sooner, I would have been told.

[10:17] Charlie Murphy: Option. Yeah. What about I'd love to kind of frame that question of you mentioned a couple schools, theatre and musical theatre. I'd love to hear kind of like, how did you and or if you're willing to speak for all Scottish people? How did you view that line between like plays and musicals? I do think it's a maybe slightly different experience sometimes that I at least I've heard that British people or that would have between that compared to maybe how Americans think about but how are you thinking about theatre versus musical theatre, especially as someone who came up as a dancer?

[10:46] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I was, for me, it was all about when I walked in the room, did I feel people got me, and I had an experience at a college which will remain unnamed. Where I walked in the door, went to register with the students to like, tell them that I was there to audition. And they basically just parroted back to me that like, my accent would get changed if I came there, like the teachers would have a field day with me. And I was just kind of like, Oh, this is this is not the vibe that I'm looking for. And then I loved my high school experience. But because it was a performing arts high school, there were a lot of people who I had studied with going to various colleges in London, and I felt like college wouldn't be a fresh start, it would be like I would be moving there with people and my association to those people would cut would in some way, you know, intentionally or not begin to define my college experience, whereas the ultimately the option to move abroad was so appealing, because I was like, like fresh start, like, let's, yeah.

[12:02] Charlie Murphy: I love it. We will name that college at the end of this podcast at some point, I'm just gonna drop it in. He's never gonna say what it is. I'll just say the name and you'll have to guess that was it. That was Yeah, yes. Well, give me a little bit of your Juilliard experience. So both just your experience in general, what was Julia? Was it what you expected it to be? What did you get out of it? You know, we mentioned this idea of you ended up getting a BFA in Scholastic Distinction. I'd love to hear about that. And then also, especially as a foreigner, because we're going to speak toward the international a little bit. What was that experience as a non American experiencing an American college, especially New York City?

[12:32] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, um, okay. So a whole number of things. I think ultimately, Juilliard changed my life. And I like to think about my experience there as like, I got given a gift, and I wasn't quite sure what it was. And I feel like every year of my life, I learned more about the gift that I got given. I think that at the age of 18 to like 21, when I graduated, like I just I was like, ripe and ready to learn, but not necessarily ready to implement the things that I was learning. And so now, in my 30s, I'm like, so hungry to be acting because I feel like I have a more comprehensive understanding of how to use the tools that I got given at Juilliard. And I think that at the age of 21, because I was in a foreign country, and like didn't really know anyone except the people that I'd gone to school with, I was just really scared, like, and I, I think, institution protects you from like, parts of real life.

And as soon as I graduated, I was like, whoa, what's happening? But that's, that's kind of future tense conversation that we can have. But I think like, when I was at school, like, the movement training was everything that I wanted and more like, and you know, this about me, Charlie, but like, physical rigor is really important to me as a human, like, if I'm not moving my body, I feel like something is wrong. And Juilliard really, I think, as a physical actor, opened me up in a way that I could never have imagined. Moni Akeem, who was one of the founding teachers of the drama division, I was very lucky to get to study with him before he retired a couple years ago. And he was just, he was so curious, so playful.

There was so much joy. And then there was also a demand for excellence in the, in that classroom. And I think everything that Moni did with us informs the way that I work with, with the MTCA students that I get to work with, which is,

[15:25] Marcus Crawford Guy: To pursue an independent study which was all about accessibility with Shakespeare. I was finding that we were diving into plays head, shoulders, knees and toes. I was looking for like the holds that would help ground me in the lavish text. And so basically wrote a thesis or a dissertation which was about just proposing kind of new points of access to Shakespeare based on the teaching that different people who had come into Juilliard to work with us. Liz Smith, Daniel Fish, Deb Hecht and Kate Wilson and the other teachers who were mainstays at Juilliard. I basically just wrote my thesis on that. And it was really great because I was able to curate my own reading list. I was able to work with a professor who was actually our theatre history professor within the drama division.

And it was just brilliant. It was great. And it kind of fed into the curiosity that I think any great theatre program is trying to cultivate in students. And allowed me to kind of pull on the threads that were most interesting to me.

[18:10] Charlie Murphy: So much of that answer. First off, it's just delightful to me to envision Marcus in a room where he's not intellectual enough. Like I can't imagine that now to be like Marcus wasn't able to hang intellectually in a wet room. But also to hear about with our students in the different schools that they experience. It's like you say this school is X. And you would think Juilliard, well that's a conservatory style school. But certainly you finding academic rigor within that school. We often talk about how do you make the school into what you need it to be and how that's often possible. Or there's no one school that has all the answers. So how do you figure out, well this is how I make this into the right school for me.

It's so cool. And I commend you on that. The access part of it. I do think from my perspective, I've been in that. I've had that experience specifically with Shakespeare of going, man, if you could get into this, there's so much joy to be had in it. But it's hard to get into. And I've seen with other art. I'm like, I wish I understood opera on that level. I wish there's so many things. I'm like, let me in so I can enjoy it. Because I'm feeling the other side of it. I think it's a great thing. So please.

[19:23] Marcus Crawford Guy: Well, I would say one of the things that I, and I think it probably was stemmed from my love of dance. But one of the things that I did as soon as I got to Juilliard was find people in other departments who I could skillshare with or I could collaborate with. I was like, there are too many talented people here for me to only be spending time with actors. So I was really lucky that I got to dance at Juilliard, which is one of my favorite stories to tell. Myself and a dance student who was in my grade got to dance with the historical performance musicians, which was just wild. And honestly, it's probably one of my highlights of being at the school to just have carved out an opportunity like that for myself.

And I would say I think the advice that I would spend from that is very rarely can actors give actors jobs, but people who do other things can refer actors for the jobs, right? And so I would encourage everyone, regardless of what school you go to, to make sure that you're not in a bubble of people who do the same thing as you all the time.

[20:55] Charlie Murphy: Definitely. Certainly, Juilliard has so many resources that you can be soaking up there, but so does New York City generally and so many cities and so many schools and such advice is almost universal. But we could go so deep into this and I have seven other things I want to ask you and we're so we got to move on to, I want to talk a little bit about just your journey into educator. I mean, it seems I got to know you at a pretty young age relative, you were still in your early twenties, I think when we met and you must have been someone pretty early on who realized education was going to be part of your artistic journey. So talk to me about that. How did you sort of see and what point did you sort of see weaving that into your journey, both from a career and then also artistic perspective?

[21:25] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I mean, I think not at Juilliard, but certainly in my young life, I had some teachers who were just destructive, right? To my confidence, to my sense of self, to my self-worth. And I remember when I walked in to actually do my audition at Juilliard, I was like, oh, this is a room where people are looking for like the promise and potential in the people who walk through the door, right? Whether that's me or not, I could just feel that they were looking at me through a different lens. And I will never forget that feeling. And so that just became a really important tenet for me as an artist, as a human, like I want to walk into rooms and ultimately now, like I want to run rooms where people feel welcome and also feel like they can be courageous because I think that's typically what we're asking each other to do in creative spaces is like exhibit courage and tell the stories and whatever we were doing.

And so, yeah, I became involved with a student group at Juilliard. I spent all three summers. I didn't do any summer stock or anything like that. It was too complicated with the visa. There was just so much paperwork and it always felt like I was going to be breaking a rule. So I started teaching. And so with one student group each summer, I went to East Africa. We were in Tanzania. And I think we did some very well intentioned work. Now, 15 years on, I'm like, we could have done a lot of things differently. And I think we made an important impact on people's lives. I don't think we gave lasting impact to those folks, but I also think that's what well intentioned late teens and early 20s folks do.

And then I was also working with a program in Central Florida. And that was just like really a wonderful way for me to see another part of America, right? Because my experience was not just New York, but Lincoln Center, which is such a kind of fake image. It's even like my favorite part of New York. It's an idyllic part of New York, but it's not what New York actually is. I mean, it is. It's part of it, but it's not all of it.

[24:12] Charlie Murphy: I want to talk so much more about teaching. So I want to move on to a little more international questions, though I will just pause and say, I hope you can take some pride in you have created rooms like that, certainly within MTCA and with your students that like you are somebody who empowers them and pushes them in that positive, non-destructive way. All the things that you sort of set out to do, you're doing them certainly from an educational perspective. So yeah, I'll just take a second to underline that. Let's talk a little more broadly about the international experience. So you're someone who's you already mentioned work visas, and I know you've dealt with green cards and all kinds of different things, things that not all of our U.S. listeners will ever probably have to deal with, at least, you know, to work in the United States.

But, you know, for our international listeners, I mean, have a decent amount, shocking amount of international listeners. Can you just talk about what has the experience of like making a life in the United States been and take that as granularly as you can from like your experience of college and life as much as you want to talk about? But I'd love to kind of hear what is the experience and how is it different than somebody who's American?

[25:11] Marcus Crawford Guy: For sure. So I think it's important for me to say I'm a British national, which I think gives me some privileges. I am currently an O-1 visa holder, even after almost 16 years in the U.S. I still do not have permanent residency here. So I'm here on a work visa and every couple of years I have to apply and renew that. But basically my point of entry into the U.S. was through the F-1 student visa program, which is the visa that is offered to many students from many different countries, though there is also another student visa called the J-1 visa. The main difference is that on the F-1, you're allowed to work through the school. The school is allowed to kind of be your sponsor, so to speak. I would say I just didn't ask questions.

I think I was so, like I said, I think my parents first and foremost were very much like, this probably won't happen. So the amount of research that we did prior to applying to Juilliard was little to none. And then when I got admitted to the school, really the conversation became, okay, like, you need scholarship money. And, you know, by chance I had applied to a school that has an exorbitant, you know, endowment. I think it's like the fifth largest in New York City. And so Juilliard had money to offer me to offset the costs. I will also say, because I think it's worth saying, I, you know, come from a working-class household. My parents both barely eat their way through high school. I think we could say my dad was asked not to return to high school at a certain point.

So, like, the idea of higher education was just something that my parents hadn't planned for. Not to mention the fact in the UK, the cost of higher education is just significantly lower. On top of that, like, if you want to take out loans to use at a foreign institution, the interest rates are incredibly high. So basically my parents said, you have to find money, Marcus. And so I wrote to pretty much every small business in Scotland and explained kind of, by numbers, the achievement of getting into Juilliard. And someone wrote me back and offered me a significant amount of money, which helped subsidize my education, which was pretty extraordinary. And then after that happened, my parents were like, well, you did good, kid.

So, you know, we pieced it together. But the thing I would pull from that is, like, I was very lucky, because had that been, you know, USC, let's say, where I did my graduate education, they just don't give money, right? If you're foreign and you want to study at the school, you have to show that you have the funds prior to enrolling. And so, you know, I did this very blind, and I was in many respects very lucky. And then I would say, you know, I went through kind of four, let's call it comfortable years, because once you're in the cadence of going to college, it's fine. But then on the other end, going, oh, like, at that point in time, Actors' Equity were very, very fickle about whether or not visa holders could become union members.

And there were very specific circumstances under which they were willing to grant us union membership. And so that became very tricky, something that was never explained to me. I had a really hard time after my showcase talking to agents and managers and casting directors, because no one had talked to me about the regions.

[29:50] Marcus Crawford Guy: For sure. So, you know, I have a really good friend. She's Chinese, and we always talk about the privilege of... I had a multiple-entry visa stamp, which basically meant I went to the embassy once. They stamped my passport, and then that stamp was good for the four years that I went to school. My friend from China, every time she went home, she had to get an appointment at the embassy. She had to get a new stamp. And so that starts to create restrictions because, I mean, I have certainly had instances where I go to make an appointment at the U.S. embassy in London, and it's a three-week wait, a four-week wait. And so if you've not really considered travel, it starts to create serious restrictions on how and when you can travel.

And also, it's expensive. I can't get my passport stamped in Scotland. I have to go to London. I think also there are just higher volumes of student visas being issued to folks from East Asian and South Asian countries. And so that can make it much harder for those folks to get the approval, the stamp. And then, you know, immigration is handled by many different agencies. So I apply for a visa through USCIS. But when I cross the border, the person who looks at my visa paperwork and my visa stamp and my passport works for border control. And so you also have to be very good at talking about your work and what you're doing. And, you know, I remember when I started to pay a lawyer, and I was like, why am I paying you so much money?

And then I crossed the border, and I was like, oh, wow, I just got asked some, you know, simple but I would say like challenging questions had I answered them incorrectly or with other words. And I was well prepared. And that's the other thing I would say is like, for folks considering an education in the U.S., yes, there is the college tuition. Absolutely. You have to like, look at that number. And then you probably want to add on somewhere in the region of $10,000 to that to just go on the other end of this. We need legal counsel if my child wants to stay in the U.S. You already said this, but I'm just underlining and highlighting also the extraordinary nature of your experience of getting a lot of scholarship aid as an international student.

I mean, I know that's true regardless of the arts of it all. That is one of the things, again, it's sort of been in the news, but one of the things that international students, the sort of dirty secret is they all pay full price. That's part of the reason they help fund our schools. That sticker price, you know, we often say nobody pays full price at these universities except international students. You know, the people who pay full price at the high ticket universities tend to be more international students. So awesome for you. And then one thing that I would say is that for my graduate education, because I have been a taxpayer since I moved to the U.S. 15 years ago, I am not a U.S. citizen or even a permanent resident, but in the eyes of the IRS, I am a U.S. person. And so that meant that for my graduate education, I could have a conversation with USC about financial support because they could see that I was throwing money in the larger pocket.

[35:47] Marcus Crawford Guy: Well, then let's just talk about a couple of international scenarios. And then I want to get into our second half of this, which is, you know, from your experience with friends, colleagues, students, all those kind of things. Do you have a sense of the flip side of what it's like to work internationally with an American degree? So if you were to go back to, you know, if you were to go back to the U.K., for instance, in those dark six months, seven months, we won't talk about, but with a degree from Juilliard, do you have a sense of like how that translates into the British market or do they think of it like, oh, that's like RADA or that's really, you know, how would you know people who've made that specific change?

[36:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah. I mean, again, I think it's just you want to lay the track for that. Right. And that's just the thing that I was not doing. So even in those seven months when I went home, I was like, oh, what threads do I pull on? It's definitely possible. Right. I think about one of my first MTCA students that I worked with, and like she just shot like a commercial and, you know, my parents saw it and like, you know, like it happens. Folks definitely like cross in both directions. And there are certainly international actors who were at school at the same time as me at Juilliard who are like blowing all the way up. So it's possible. I think you need to be able to talk about what you offer in such a way that it makes the problem feel smaller, which is something that I was just not able to do because in my head, the problem was so huge.

Right. Like if I can't join the union, how can I X? Right. And so I would say it's about finding other people who have done that, asking them about their experience. And, you know, I say, like, ask the question, like, what do you wish you knew that you didn't know? And I think that's a really great question. And honestly, just for anyone, even when they're deciding what college to go to. Right. And you're talking to two students. I. It's definitely possible, but I will say that when I was in the UK for that seven-month period, I was talking to people about Juilliard, and they were like, oh, so you're a musician. And I was like, no, I'm an actor. And, you know, and then you would start to spell out like Viola Davis, Adam Driver, Anthony Mackie, Oscar, you know, you start like using these names.

But even then it wasn't like totally computing because ultimately the people I was referencing are people who are at the top, top, top level of the game and at the entry point as like fresh talent out of college, regardless of where you went to school, people are going, right. But where can I where can I plug you in immediately? Because like you're not Adam Driver or Oscar Isaac. And then I'll skip the flip side, which will just have had Emma Vance on the podcast like next week, who was that's an American who tried to work in London, did successfully work in London doing Clueless. But then I know we talked a little bit about the struggles of staying. And so that was she was having the inverse experience of trying to stay as an American, potentially another country. So we'll I'll skip that end of it unless there's anything else that you wanted to cover just from your international experience.

[39:12] Marcus Crawford Guy: You know, I want to talk more about your career a little bit on the back end as we talk about self-discovery. But is there anything in terms of your experience with the international advice for international students? Anything else you want to hit on this end of it?

[39:22] Marcus Crawford Guy: I would say two things. One, you know, the teaching has been huge for me just because it's the application of the degree, right? I don't just need to apply my degree as an actor on stage or screen. There are other venues in which I can do that. So teaching has been hugely instrumental in me getting to stay and live my life in the U.S. And then the second thing I would say is wherever you land at any in any city in the U.S. or in a small town or wherever, find cultural institutions that represent you and where you're from. I'm lucky there are a lot of Scottish American organizations. There are a lot of Scottish folks working at a high level in America. And so I've been able to get connected with those people who ultimately know movers and shapers. And I find I have a network of people working with me and I work with and for them as well to connect people to opportunities.

[40:35] Marcus Crawford Guy: So like a really fun thing that I get to do every year is I address the haggis and the four seasons out here in L.A. for Burnley, right? And it's just like it's very fun. Everyone's there in their kilts. Everyone thinks they're Scottish. About four of us are. But it's great. It's like a lot of fun.

[40:55] Charlie Murphy: Is haggis not a kind of food? What is it in this context to address?

[40:59] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, like we address it. There's a poem and you speak the poem and you cut the haggis. And maybe we can put that on Instagram one day. It's early.

[41:10] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I'm going to need to see you in the haggis. I understand about half of this podcast so far. So we're doing great. All right. We'll take a short break. And on the back end, we're going to get into the self-discovery conversation, which I'm very excited to have. So we're back in a flash.

[41:23] Charlie Murphy: OK, we're back with the wonderful Marcus Crawford Guy, and we've been promising it, we've been selling it. Let's get a little bit into this self-discovery conversation. We're really I want to try to do it a little bit like slicing the oak tree of Marcus and trying to read the rings back as best as we can of like, where are you on these different journeys and how you would have this conversation? And again, we've talked about this before in the pod. I already kind of previewed this to you of like what this task is. But, you know, this large task that colleges ask you to do, which they basically say, tell me who you are. We want to meet you. Right. And now you've got this daunting job as a student to both figure out what that means, like who the who is that you are.

And then, of course, the choice of how to translate that into how you tell them who you are and materials, interview questions, essays, all the gargantuan tasks. So we know certainly and we spend a lot of time with what that task is to our listeners, maybe a little bit newer. But can we just start with today, Marcus in his I'm going to say 30s in his 30s? How would you answer those questions right now about Mark? You mentioned, you know, I purposely didn't use any like sometimes I say an actor, writer, teacher, marathon runner. I didn't use any hyphens for you. Like what would those hyphens be for you now? What would those quick dating profile bio words, you know, not put it however you want to put it, but like what are the things if you were like, this is me now in 2025 in the fall, how would you claim those identities?

[42:43] Marcus Crawford Guy: I would say it's like top line is creative. And I would say that it feels that there's part of me that's like, is that a cop out? But I think I choose to live my life creatively, like in every aspect of what I do, like I'm always thinking about how is this, how is the thing that I am doing today, like expanding my brain, expanding my understanding of the world, of my experience, and, you know, sometimes like sitting in a coffee shop and watching people is creative, right? So I'd say that that's top line. I think I would put underneath that actor, screenwriter and producer. I yeah, I would say just for the producer things, I feel like we've not spoken about that yet, but just at a very young age, I became very well aware that I am highly organized and really good at motivating and organizing people.

And so, you know, that's I would say that's like an emerging passion. And it's been one of the brilliant things about moving from New York City to L.A. is I feel like that's that's a skill I can really cultivate here. And then I think like I would write like teaching artists in a circle round about that, because I think.

[44:19] Marcus Crawford Guy: Around the round. I was gonna say we're four layers deep. We haven't talked about teaching yet. That's that's. Yeah. I mean, it's a circle all around because it's someone said this to me when I was at Juilliard and the image has never, ever left my brain, which is as a creative person, as an actor, a dancer, however you want to describe your creative endeavors.

[44:45] Marcus Crawford Guy: You are reaching forward with one hand, and you should be reaching back with the other. And so, for me, the teaching is what's happening with my left hand, right, while this hand's reaching forward. It's, it's passing on the skill, it's going, you know, you mentioned, like, Alejandro was someone who's on the podcast, like, he's, he's just like a hero of mine. I just watch how he can walk into rooms and change the energy, galvanize people's spirit, like, get everyone excited, focused, hungry, authentic, like, expressing themselves authentically. It's, I feel like he's someone who, like, grabbed this hand and helped me. Okay, but just, okay, so that is such a, you know, beautiful, and I mean, you've got words in there, you've got geometry, we've got circles, I mean, subdivisions, and I've heard he's a very organized brain.

Well, if we were to jump back to 17, how would you be thinking about this question? I know you don't, it's impossible to go, truly go back, but how would you imagine 17-year-old Marcus would have answered the same question? Well, I'm going to tell, I'm going to tell a story, and I promise there's a point to it. So I'm outside my Juilliard audition, and I was wearing, so first of all, I just had, like, I had one of those, maybe I shouldn't say this, but it's my face, so it's fine. I had, like, a really unfortunate teenager face, that was just, like, covered in acne, like, just, like, it was, like, the Alps. It was really a lot. Yeah. And then I was wearing this just horrendous purple sweater, which kind of matched the color of my skin, and a pair of high pants, so, like, none of this was well thought.

And I'm standing outside my audition, and the woman outside the door kind of looks at me with a look that I would describe as pitiful. And she said, you know, Pitying? Pitying look? Sure, yeah. And she said, she said, you know, only 18 people get in. And I was, like, I immediately felt this, like, surge of energy in my body that I can only describe as, like, the part of me that is my father, right? Just being woken up. And I walked in the room as myself, because she said that. Because she said, don't tell, you said, don't tell me I'm not one of the 18. I am one of the 18. Yeah, she, she, she, like, unfortunately, or fortunately, in the long run, like, messed with my dream in that moment. And I was, like, you just don't get to do that under any circumstance.

And I remember I walked in the room, and the people behind the table asked me how I was, and I said, I'm actually really upset right now. And that, you know, like, she, whether it was, I mean, actually, it wasn't intentional, she was just not being kind. But what she drew out of me was an authenticity that, that was, it was great. And then another thing that I would share is just, like, I always knew that I, that I wanted to make people laugh in my auditions. Like, I just, I was like, I come to life in a different way when people, when people laugh. And so I, I went hunting for a monologue that just had, that started in a place that you would never expect to come out of my mouth. And so the monologue that I, that I used from a play called Burying Your Brother in the Pavement.

And the first line of it was, I first had the idea I was the second coming when I was seven. And I just, I just thought that was so funny that, like, a person with the face that I had at the age of 17, which was just, like, so unfortunate to be speaking that line. I found that very humorous. And, and then found the monologue to be, like, truly tender thereafter. And, and I, yeah, so I, so I would say, even at 17, I don't know that I would, I could describe, kind of, the intention and the way that I am right now. But I knew I was hunting for something, and I also knew when I found it. When it came to my Shakespeare pieces, because I went to not the best public high schools in, in the UK, you know, the dance school was tacked on to ultimately a pretty bad high school.

I had, I had very poor access to, like, Shakespeare and didn't really know what I was reading and how to read it. So I picked two Shakespeare monologues that were from the first scene of the play. And I remember when I was asked at Juilliard, they were, like, how did you come across these monologues? And I was, like, well, I was just looking for long passages of text at the start of the plays, because I don't know how to read this. I don't, I don't even know the word. Henry Fiverr. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, truly, like, Coriolanus, like, I'm just, I was, like, a raging bull, just, and I was, like, I think I understand these 12 lines. I hope I understand them. Yeah. But again, I think when, when we talk about how do you bring yourself into the room, I was aware of, I was aware of where my skill was. Like, I was aware of what I could do, and also what I couldn't do. And I wasn't apologizing for either, either of those things.

[51:00] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, even if you didn't have the language yet, you had an authenticity. And, you know, and it's an interesting way to hook into some of that confidence. And some of, we talked so much about, like, how do you bring a confident person into the room who's able to, and willing to share? Maybe you're coming from a place of anger, or I dare you not to accept me, or whatever. But you found a way to, to bring that full authentic self into the room. So obviously really successfully. What if we were to, now, set back a little bit more as a teacher, but also just, you know, how you think about this in terms of the different kinds of identity. And, you know, you put those beautiful three words, and then the circle over it, and the way you think of it now, but like, you know, both in terms of conversation about like, this is my identity, which I think has some political context of like, you know, harder line forms of identity, you know, there's, there's the ideas of like, I'm a nerd, or I'm really into dance moms, is one kind of identity versus like, race, and sexuality, and gender identity, and neurodivergence, right?

And I think what sometimes happens in this process, it gets really kind of blended into this soup for students, because colleges are asking for all of that, they want to know everything. But I think it can be a little confusing for students to be like, what do they mean in that? Like, how, how do you think of at least those different kinds of identity, the sort of harder and the softer versions of if you want to think of it that way? How do you see that in your conversation with your students of like, how you lead in the room? This is who I am. And this is what I want to say about myself.

[52:14] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I mean, I always think about it as like, what are, you know, on any audition day, these, these college faculty members are probably seeing like 30 40 50 people. So there's only so much information that they can hold about you. So it's like, what are the three kind of nuggets that you want them to hold on to when you leave the room? Right? And you kind of don't even get to say those things explicitly, right? Because especially in relation to some forms of identity, it's actually, you know, illegal to ask. So I, I always find that that's, that's the conversation. And for some students, it is the, you know, I, I just love contemporary musical theatre and like the girly pop sound. And like, that's actually important to me, right?

And for other people, it's, I'm a young, you know, trans student who's trying to find my voice. And I want to make sure that when I walk in the room, the people behind the table have an understanding of how I want to grow as something that's more than like a stereotyped idea of blah, blah, blah, blah, right? That's kind of what I mean by that is like, because I think the danger sometimes students have is like, they don't want their race or their gender, their sexual orientation, or whatever, or their neurodivergence, anything that they're sharing about stuff to become their identity. But so then they aren't necessarily sure how do I lead or to become all that they're going to say about themselves is I'm this, I'm these things, you know, it's like, how do you bring all of the unique human qualities that go beyond those categorizations, but then intermingle them all to make an sort of artist you are?

How do you think if someone were to come to you and say, I'm not, I am these 15 things, how do I get to my three? How do you sort of think about that conversation of like, these three would feel like the most important three bullet points you want to hear?

[54:13] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I would say, write down that list of 15 things and look at it and, and and circle the three things that if I would, if I were to subtract them, you would just fundamentally no longer be yourself. And, and I think that people are good at that. I think the, like, what's essential, and I think sometimes seeing it written out and going, you know, and going, you know, when I was 17, I was like, I, I want people to know that I'm like, quirky. And I think probably there was a deeper voice inside me that was like, I want people to know that I'm queer. But like, but at that point, you wouldn't notice I said that. Yeah, it's like, he's gonna be quirky and subversive, right? And if I looked at that list, I would have been like, you can't take this away from me.

Like, this is me. And so I often find myself encouraging students to write lists. And then, and this is something I do as a writer is I write lists of things that are interesting to me. And then I circle the things that I'm having a strong emotional reaction to after the fact, right? If it's something that makes me smile, something that that makes me tear up, right? Like, um, I think in my recent years that, you know, I became an uncle, almost five years ago. That's such a huge part of my life. Like, it's the best role I have ever gotten to play as uncle. And so that's important to me now. And I, it's, you know, I'm like, can we can we remake? I mean, we shouldn't because this would be sacrilege. But like, can we remake something like Mrs. Doubtfire, right? Because I feel like that's what I do for my nephews every time I show up and see them.

[56:11] Charlie Murphy: Oh, I love that. Well, and talk to me a little bit about as a coach, the process of how we relate that to material, because I totally agree. And, you know, we don't have to go to super granular on top of the consult, where we might be spending some time writing out those exact, I mean, we would have, but maybe here's the list of, I made you name 12 things. And then we're going to narrow these down in this case. But I'd love to kind of hear when it comes to material, like, how do you, how do you think about this process, which, you know, something that I think we really pitch that we do expertly, and I really believe that we do expertly, which is that we're never going to tell them like, hey, you, you are this type, you have to do this material because of what you look like, or because what you sound like, right?

Nor are we like, sort of saying, hey, you bring the material to me, I don't care whatever you do, right? We find that sort of balance between, I sometimes use the analogy of it's like, we're teaching you how to dance while you're leading the dance, sort of like, I'm trying to help you figure out how to do that, but you're still in the lead of telling me who you are. But for those students who maybe struggle with that list, and some of our listeners might go, I kind of don't, I don't know how to answer these questions. I don't know what's most important to me. I don't know how to speak to that. How do you sort of help them tease that out? Or how do you sort of see your role in helping them wrestle with these questions or, or sort of begin that, that writing or that Genesis conversation of, of the who, of the who you are?

[57:24] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I always, I always love to ask students kind of anecdotal questions, right? Like, tell me, tell me about the last time that you laughed hysterically. Tell me about, you know, a time that you felt, that you felt sad or scared, or like, what's your biggest fear? Like, tell me something that you get, that you just like, geek out on that you're, that you know the most about. Because I feel like that's when students begin to reveal themselves to me. And ultimately, what we're sending them in the room to do is tell stories. So if we can start from like, the stories that they know best, I start to hear, oh, I like, I worked with a girl last year who I just, I got such a kick out of because she spoke faster than anyone I have ever met in my life.

And I was just like, this is wild and wonderful. And there were many times where I was like, we have to, we have to slow down. And then from there, I was able to extract that, like, it was both her nervousness and her enthusiasm. And we had a conversation about that. And then we listened to some really fun, uptempo songs. And we found something that, like, landed on that energy, that to me, I was like, that's, this song is who I met when I first met you. And, and she was like, that's what everyone always says, you know. And, and so when she was going into audition rooms, it was a hard song. And I would say that, like, we definitely had a negotiation of, like, technically, is this absolutely 100% perfect?

No, but it, it was rough around the edges in the way that it felt perfect, because it revealed who she is, as a human. And then, you know, I would say there are, there are other times that I'm having conversations with students, and I'm going, I, Marcus, recognize something in you, but you're not talking about it, Charlie, right?

[59:41] Marcus Crawford Guy: I think, Charlie, the other thing that I would offer, because I think sometimes when I meet with young people who are like taking their first steps on this path, there's like a stigma around getting help, right, or having support in this process. And I would just offer that that's signature for every single part of your creative life, right? When I write a scene, and I'm like, I think I've stumbled on something brilliant here, I'm sending it to my friend Zane, and he is inevitably texting me back and going, this will be great when you've rewritten it another four times, or like, well, Marcus, that was great. But that bouncing off of ideas is just, it's everywhere in what we do. So I would say, get used to enjoying the fun.

[1:00:36] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Um, do you mind sharing a little bit of your own personal journey in terms of identity? You mentioned sort of the, hey, at 17, I wasn't ready to call myself queer. What about like, in terms of your personal journey with like, pronouns and gender? I know that that's a conversation a lot of artists have had, especially recently, with a lot of introspection, in terms of potentially using different pronouns in different places or trying pronouns out. You know, yeah, especially in the last five years, sometimes what we would interview people, and in one resume, it would say one set of pronouns, and on a website, it says a different set. And, you know, and I'm not always sure, I'm like, is that people trying things out at different moments of a journey? Is it in this space, I might use these pronouns, I might think about that? Because what was your own, if you don't mind sharing, what was your own personal sort of journey with gender and pronouns?

[1:01:19] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I mean, like, I use he/him pronouns. And, you know, but if someone refers to me with they/them pronouns, I am a-okay with that. And for, I would say, like, for 20 years, I had he/they in my email signature, because I want other people whose identity exists either beyond the binary, or who, how am I gonna say this, but like, don't present the way that they identify. I want them to know that, like, this is a safe space and a brave space. And I, yeah, and I will also say, you know, when I was in grad school, I think some of my TUSC, if they were listening to this, if they are listening to this, they'll be like, Oh, Marcus. But I really, I have some really close friends who are trans women, and I just see how difficult it is for them to walk into certain spaces and feel allied.

And so it's just, it's a small gesture to, towards saying, like, I don't have your experience, but I will advocate for it. I don't think I've done too much introspection. Because I feel quite certain in who I am and how I live. I am aware that there are people around me at all hours of the day, who are, who feel like they're on tenterhooks. And so I think it's the job of the collective to go, does it really bother me if someone refers to me with they/them pronouns, if it's in the larger effort to make that commonplace for everyone? No, I don't care.

[1:03:38] Charlie Murphy: Well, and I was gonna ask, you know, I started off that question of like, the harder line, softer line identity, you know, versus, you know, my quirkiness versus my queerness. If you were to re-audition for Juilliard now as an MFA, how do you think, would your queerness show up more specifically and evidently in your work? Would it feel very similar to the same quirkiness? How do you sort of see that differently in terms of how you would lead in the world if you now were auditioning?

[1:04:01] Marcus Crawford Guy: I think 100%. I think it's something that I was at war with for so long. Something that I felt like shame and anger. I was angry for a long time that I was different. I was like, why, like, why did I get dealt this hand? Like, it was so, it felt so overwhelming and difficult, that now that I'm on the other side of that experience, I'm like, if I was walking to Juilliard today, and there are people who can't handle the full scope of what it is to have a gay man who's authentically being himself in the room with you, then that's a room that I don't need to be in. And I don't say that to go like, I'm gonna, you know, go in the room and pop my tongue and, you know, quote Drag Race every four seconds, right?

That's not what I'm saying. But I think it's just like, we've all read the Sam Shepard plays, which deal with like fairly nuclear families that are typical and have been typical throughout time. And so it's, it's, it's, yeah, I think if you feel comfortable with parts of yourself, you should invite those into the room.

[1:05:37] Marcus Crawford Guy: And actually, I want to talk about this, because I have a couple of students this year, actually, and they will remain nameless, but who are really, faith is so important to them. And that is something I just, I don't have experience of. And they have reflected back to me that my curiosity and like my sincere intrigue into how we can invite that aspect of them into the room has been really, really exciting for them. And that might be a great example of something where people are unlikely for the, for, you know, to be like, oh, this theater college is going to be discriminating against a gay man, but some might feel like, I don't know how they're going to feel about a really strong Christian person or whatever that's in some ways that, that they may have more fear, but to that same, the same tenant would hold of going, if you're not going to feel good about something that's really true to my identity, then there's probably another school for me, if that, you know, that if that does turn you off.

[1:07:36] Charlie Murphy: Let me ask you a little bit about social media. We've had a lot of social media conversations on the pod, but in the context of this conversation, how do you think of social media as a form of you broadcasting your identity? And again, I mean, at any meeting, just who you are as a person, you know, I know it's a place where I've seen you be more vulnerable and revealing in ways that aren't just commercial. Whereas I do think a lot of actors I see who are going to post here's my next gig. Here's me looking cute at a gala, you know, but how do you think of social media as a tool? How do you use it and how do you consume it? Give me social media.

[1:08:14] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah, I think I have a big rule about social media, which is if you don't like it, don't follow it. I feel strongly about that. I think there are definitely been things that I have looked at and I've gone and I can feel like the monster coming up in me and I'm like, yeah, but Marcus, you're also electing to like participate in this. So just like unfollow and get out of it. And then it's, it's not your business, it's not your problem. And you don't need to feel this feeling. But I also have found myself really troubled by the way in which people curate their lives and the way that that dings on other people's self-esteem, self-worth, positive self-image. And so, you know, I, me and one of the other coaches on the team who will remain nameless, there are a lot of nameless people.

We got nameless students, we got nameless coaches, my God. You know, but we frequently have a conversation about the fact that like, I very often have days where I'd wake up and I'm like, my mental health is in the toilet. Like it's, it is not good. And I want to share that sometimes. Not to get sympathy, but because I'm very well aware that a lot of people follow me on social media because they think I have all my ducks in a row.

[1:10:49] Charlie Murphy: Which you do. Your ducks are very organized. Someone to look up to, for sure.

[1:10:53] Marcus Crawford Guy: Yeah. And so sometimes I just like to say, today I feel like the worst version of myself. I have no idea how I ended up here in my life. Like some days I just like see it. And I think it's important to communicate that. You know, within reason, right? It's not about airing dirty laundry. They're going like, my, today I'm really struggling to imagine my life as an actor. Right. And to actually have real conversations with people from there. Right. I think it's really, it's really fantastic. And I would just, I have found myself slowly, but surely when I can feel like I'm witnessing something online that feels veneered. I just, I pull myself away from it. I want to, I want people to see a real version of me and I want to see a real version of them because there's nothing more jarring than when you then meet someone in real life whose persona you have learned online.

And they're different. And yeah, that's, that's always really jarring and confusing and honestly like icky to me. Like I just, I go, I need to get away from that because I can't put my finger on what's sincere.

[1:12:31] Marcus Crawford Guy: It's something Elizabeth and I have talked a lot about as parents too now of like, we will say, uh, it's okay to make mistakes. That's a Dana Tiger song, but like those kinds of things. But like, we, we always have things pretty well handled. It's sort of a version of parenthood. And we're like, I think there's something we've been talking about recently. I think Solvay will appreciate actually us trying to more openly share our vulnerability. So now every night before bedtime, we share like a mistake that we've made and something I wish that had gone differently today. Just so they're like, you know, dad makes mistakes too. And mom makes mistakes and that's okay. You know, cause that is often how you learn is by watching other people in their vulnerability of like, yeah, today I felt like this.

And I, I think also just thinking about the audience or ears, uh, who will be landing on this podcast, I would just say, you know, this, the college audition process is particularly relentless. Um, and I would say like once the applications open and the fall of your senior year, there's barely a moment to catch a breath. And so anything that's not bolstering your self-worth needs to go. Um, and I had a really great conversation with one of my students two weeks ago now where she was on this, this group chat. And I just said, I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that my greatest wish for you is that you will hang up this call and like, commentize on that, on that group chat and trust that whatever people might say in your absence, uh, is worth it.

Cause you're going to feel better for all the months to come. And really to the point of so many, you talked about students who watch you and, or people who watch you and go out, the vulnerability makes me feel better knowing I have bad days too.

[1:14:36] Marcus Crawford Guy: In AMC’s “Turn: Washington’s Spies,” I had the opportunity to explore the complexities of character development and the nuances of storytelling.

[1:15:06] Marcus Crawford Guy: The show really highlights how timing can affect not just the narrative but also the audience's perception of the characters.

[1:15:30] Marcus Crawford Guy: It's fascinating to see how subtle quirks of timing can quietly reshape your path as an actor.

[1:15:50] Marcus Crawford Guy: Trusting who you are at your core is essential in this industry. It allows you to bring authenticity to your performances.

[1:16:10] Marcus Crawford Guy: The specific stories we choose to tell and perform reveal more about us than any list of traits ever could.

[1:16:30] Marcus Crawford Guy: Discovering the right mindset and preparation techniques is crucial for bringing out your best work.

[1:16:50] Marcus Crawford Guy: I believe that preparation is not just about rehearsing lines; it's about understanding the emotional landscape of the character.

[1:17:10] Marcus Crawford Guy: Each role presents a unique challenge, and it's important to approach them with an open mind and a willingness to learn.

[1:17:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: The audition process can be daunting, but it's also an opportunity to showcase your individuality and artistry.

[1:17:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: I encourage students to embrace their quirks and idiosyncrasies; they often become the most memorable aspects of a performance.

[1:18:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: It's about finding that balance between technique and instinct, allowing your true self to shine through.

[1:18:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: The journey of an actor is filled with ups and downs, but each experience contributes to your growth.

[1:18:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: I often tell my students that the best performances come from a place of vulnerability and honesty.

[1:19:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: It's important to create a safe space for yourself where you can explore and take risks.

[1:19:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: The more you trust yourself, the more confident you will be in your choices as an artist.

[1:19:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Remember, every audition is a chance to learn and refine your craft, regardless of the outcome.

[1:20:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: I believe that the right mindset can transform your approach to auditions and performances.

[1:20:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: It's about shifting your focus from the fear of failure to the excitement of possibility.

[1:20:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: When you approach your work with curiosity and enthusiasm, it opens up new avenues for creativity.

[1:21:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: I encourage aspiring actors to find their unique voice and not be afraid to express it.

[1:21:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: The industry is constantly evolving, and it's important to adapt while staying true to yourself.

[1:21:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Collaboration is key in this field; working with others can inspire new ideas and perspectives.

[1:22:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: I always remind my students that they are not alone in this journey; there is a community of support available.

[1:22:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: Embrace the challenges and celebrate the victories, no matter how small they may seem.

[1:22:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Ultimately, it's about finding joy in the process and allowing your passion for the craft to guide you.

[1:23:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: The stories we tell as artists have the power to connect us and inspire change.

[1:23:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: I hope to instill in my students a sense of purpose and a desire to make a difference through their art.

[1:23:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Each performance is an opportunity to share a piece of yourself with the world.

[1:24:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: I believe that authenticity resonates with audiences, and that's what makes a performance truly impactful.

[1:24:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: As we navigate this industry, let's remember to uplift one another and celebrate our collective achievements.

[1:24:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: The journey may be challenging, but it's also incredibly rewarding for those who are willing to put in the work.

[1:25:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: I look forward to seeing how the next generation of artists will shape the future of theater and performance.

[1:25:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: Let's continue to push boundaries and redefine what it means to be an artist in today's world.

[1:25:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Thank you for having me on this journey, and I can't wait to see what lies ahead for all of us.

[1:26:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: Remember, your voice matters, and your story is worth telling.

[1:26:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: Let's keep the conversation going and support each other as we pursue our dreams.

[1:26:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Together, we can create a vibrant and inclusive artistic community.

[1:27:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts and experiences with you.

[1:27:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: I hope to inspire others to embrace their unique journeys and find their place in the world of theater.

[1:27:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Let's continue to learn, grow, and create together.

[1:28:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: The future is bright for those who dare to dream and take action.

[1:28:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: Thank you for listening, and I look forward to connecting with you all soon.

[1:28:40] Marcus Crawford Guy: Let's keep the passion for the arts alive and thriving.

[1:29:00] Marcus Crawford Guy: Until next time, stay inspired and keep creating!

[1:32:32] Marcus Crawford Guy: When we have that insight, there's something awesome about the responsibility to what that knowledge is and how they lead that dance delicately with a young person, how they help them discover and explore without pushing or forcing them in a certain direction, but really to try to let them come to it on their own, and sometimes really that is the value of expertise that a coach may have over a student and a student doesn't have, but sometimes it's not even about such a greater level of expertise. It sometimes is just being a few years down the pike and having that outside perspective that allows a coach to see things more clearly than a student can from inside their own experience. But yes, it is something that I have talked with many coaches about, just this phenomenon of what happens a lot of times, this really interesting thing of like, I know this thing about my student that the student doesn't know about themselves, and I have to find a way to communicate and lead them, or I want to find a way to communicate and lead them as best as I possibly can, and it's a really interesting experience.

[1:34:00] Charlie Murphy: And then this is almost certainly a much longer takeaway than I'm going to get in today, but I've had it down as a blog possibility for a while, so I do just want to highlight and underline that idea of there's no shame in getting help, and that, you know, Marcus talked about this idea that some students feel a little stigma or feel a little shame about the idea of what it is to get help, or in this case, to use a coach. So certainly that is underlined, co-sponsored, agreed with. I mean, I really don't mean that to just say like, hey, you should all use an MTCA coach because many of you 90 minutes into this podcast have probably made that decision, and if not, sure, I think you probably should.

I think we're great, right? But really, outside of MTCA, outside of even coaching for this college process, it's just that idea of like, Steph Curry has a shooting coach, right? He's the best shooter that's ever lived, and he has a coach who helps him shoot better, right? Professional actors seek outside help. It doesn't make you less to have someone on the outside helping you. In fact, it is the norm for this profession and for many professions that somebody from the outside is going to give you feedback, right? I do think it is odd that sometimes young actors feel like they should be able to do it on their own, or something's wrong with them if they can't. Does that mean I must not be good because I can't do it on my own?

Of course not, right? It's not that you can't do it on your own. If that's something you really want to do, it could happen, but just this idea that there certainly is no shame in getting help, and for most people, they do get help because it's helpful. They will be a better version of themselves with help than they would without it, right?

[1:35:22] Marcus Crawford Guy: I think I told most of the idea of this making mistakes in the episode itself, so I don't need to go deep into it here, but it is something that I know Elizabeth and I are really trying to model as parents. I think I've told the story on the pod before that Sova likes to say, my daddy doesn't make mistakes, only other daddies make mistakes, to the point that literally when I'm singing her Dear Theodosia, I'll sing like, I make a million mistakes, and she'll be like, you mean other daddies? But okay, obviously that's a problem, but we recognize that's a problem, and that's not how I want to lead in the world of this person who is invulnerable, right? We want to, as parents and as humans, share our vulnerabilities, right?

So now we literally, as something Elizabeth's I think very smart idea, we end each day talking about something we struggled with, there's a good part of our day and a hard part of our day, and we try to share that we struggle too, right? That you're not unique in going through struggles, that everybody struggles, right? And I say all that because I think it can be really helpful for teenage actors going through this process, especially when it comes time to dive into their auditions in earnest, to just remind themselves that the goal is not perfection, right? The same way it's not actually a good thing for me to show up as a quote-unquote perfect parent, we don't want to meet young actors as their immaculate selves, we want to meet your raw, flawed self.

[1:36:38] Charlie Murphy: It's funny because I think young people naturally seek the raw and the flawed out, when we talk about like social media, they really, they go for the authentic, but then somehow for themselves, they think the goal is perfection, right? And in these auditions, as in life, real is better than perfect. I think that's kind of true across the board. Okay, and finally, let's end here with that amazing Juilliard audition story. I love that so much, and I have not heard that before, I thought that was so interesting. You know, we all can appreciate and empathize with the image that Marcus gave us, you know, the unfortunate purple sweater and the teenage acne, boy, I remember such a long part of my life.

Still to this day, I struggle with acne, but man, that was, as a teenager, was such like a deeply emotional part of my life. I just, you know, to have your face not look how you want it to look, that's just really hard, right? But then, of course, I already have this beautiful image, and that woman he describes, who, again, if we can be empathetic to her, it sounds like she was maybe trying to be kind, but then it said exactly the worst thing you could say to somebody before they walk in to an audition, even though, again, amazingly, that turned out to be exactly the right thing. For some reason, instead of wilting, it awoke Marcus, it awoke whatever that part of Marcus that he needed to wake up, right?

What did he say? The part of me that I can only describe as my father was woken up. Again, now I'd watch that play. That's an interesting play. I want to watch that one-person show where Marcus wakes up as a father. And listen, that woman got lucky. I do think a lot of people would be more thrown off, and she might have thrown a lot of other people off that year with that comment, with a comment like, you know, it's a long shot, right? It's not what she said exactly, but just letting her know, like, that's not maybe the nicest thing to say to somebody. But again, luckily, in Marcus's case, it inspired and awoke something, and out comes this authentic, no-holds-barred version of himself.

[1:38:28] Charlie Murphy: You know, we talk so much at this time of year to our auditioning students about the psychological prep needed outside the room. What do you need to do to get yourself in the best state to audition, and how important it is to consider and then really try to create that environment for yourself as best as you can? And now, I don't think all of you are going to be able to bring that unfortunate woman who angered Marcus to, like, come and raid you for an audition, but what do you actually need? And again, the reason I spend so much time talking about this, and I think it's worth actively thinking about and not just going automatically what you expect should happen, is if you think about it from scratch, what mind state do I actually perform my best in?

I think the answer may surprise you, right? You know, before hearing that story, I don't think a lot of people would give their answer of, like, I would perform my best right after someone deeply pisses me off, right? But maybe, kind of, some of you do. I don't know, right? As we speak, I'm rewatching The West Wing, and in the fourth season, right before President Bartlett's big debate, the First Lady, like, cuts his tie when he has 30 seconds before he's got to go on. So, she's, her goal, she says, I'm helping you out by giving you this panic, right, this big adrenaline rush, which is going to somehow snap him into game mode, and he's going to have to scramble on stage. It's going to be a panic, and now he's out of his head, and he's going to walk on the stage in whatever confident, alive-in-his-body way that he can, right?

For some people, sure. I'm not telling you you all need to be angry and flustered and whatever, that that's the right state for your audition, right? For some people, I think it absolutely can be what a lot of people choose to do, or think they should do, which is, like, looking at a beautiful mantra on your audition book, and you're repeating something to yourself, or you're doing your breathing exercises, right? Or, for some people, it is, hey, I think it's really helpful to have just a calm and casual conversation with my mom, or talk about something else so that I'm not worried about the audition, and so that I'll just be myself, and I'll feel calm and how I am. Nothing wrong with that. I think that works for a lot of people, too.

But I invite all of you to actually think about it, because if you think just about things outside of acting, if you think about, like, most kinds of preparation for what is essentially an athletic event, which, again, auditioning is an athletic event, singing certainly is an athletic event, I think auditioning is an athletic event, and acting is an athletic event, right? It's not, you know, the same as football, but it's not completely divorced from that idea of, I'm about to perform an athletic feat.

[1:41:20] Marcus Crawford Guy: And I think something like meditation absolutely can be part of preparation, but it's not the only preparation method that people actually use. Some people do, right? We use that example of the Olympic athlete who was, I think he was Olympic, oh, was he a pommel horse? I forget what it was. It was definitely a gymnastic thing, where you, like, watched him, like, meditate, visualizing his whole thing. He was, like, in the zone, and then went and performed this amazing thing, right? So I think something like calm meditation can be a great tool, and it can be something that's in people's toolbox, but it's just not the only tool, and I think that's the thing that people think they're supposed to do.

But then some people like to listen to, like, heavy metal music and get themselves pumped up and thrash their head around, or again, I'm going to use this example, do some pushups, do some jumping jacks, get the blood flowing, right? And I think Marcus's story made me think about, I don't normally think about this analogy, but, like, football players, before they walk onto the field, they're, like, slapping each other on the helmet, they're smashing their heads together, like, they are getting to a different physiological state in the way that they're trying to get psyched up, right? And something clearly from Marcus about that woman's comment sparked the athlete in him and got his juices flowing, right?

And again, for him, angry worked. I don't know if that's what he would use today, but I think angry probably locked him into something that was confident. And as we talk about so often, I do think confidence is so important to find your version of it, right? And if somehow that's how he accessed confidence was through anger, I certainly, for me, I'm like, I audition really well when I feel really good about myself, I feel in a really good place. But that doesn't necessarily mean super calm. I don't think I do my best work from a calm state. Some people do. But again, really think about it, right? And everything in between. I'm sort of speaking toward these extremes as if, like, your option is heavy metal music or meditation.

There's everything in between that you could explore, right? You don't have to do something that's at a one or at a ten. But I again, I invite you really think about what do you actually want if you didn't have the expectations of what other people do? What do you actually want? Because I don't want you to be trapped into what you think you're supposed to do in the audition room or God forbid, what everyone else is doing, right?

[1:43:40] Charlie Murphy: And of course, if you've listened to this podcast closely, a little bonus tip, a lot of other people will be like mindlessly running the material right outside the room, which I personally suggested and would suggest to all of you if you haven't heard this, that is the worst thing I think you could be doing right outside the audition room is like actively running your material right before you walk in there again. We talked about before. You can run it in the morning if you want to. It's not that there's anything wrong with checking and prepping your material at some point in the day, but I would not be doing it seconds before I walk in the audition room for me. So this is a case where I think watching other people and doing what they do would actually lead you astray.

And more than that, what do you actively need? And think about it. Try out some different things if you don't know what that is. But what do you think you need to get yourself in the mind state? Maybe it is an unfortunate woman to really anger you or something else that maybe your mom's got to send you a really inappropriate text or who knows what it is. All right. We were just off the rails completely. So let's wrap there. Who knows what we're talking about at this point. That was another episode of Mapping the College Edition. It's the new year of 2026, but we are still made possible by Megan Courtier, Kelly Prendergrast, and Jordan Rice. You can still like and subscribe wherever you listen and watch.

Follow us at Mapping the College Edition and head to mtca.com for help with your individual college prep needs. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, please trust that you're enough for the right program exactly as you are right now, whoever that person may be. And now keep striving. We'll catch you next week.