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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, summer break listener. I really hope you enjoy this re-air episode during our summer breaks. We like to go back and rehighlight one of the artists from this past season who we really enjoyed having on the podcast. For those who may be newer listeners, I do invite you all to check back through previous seasons for our other awesome artist guests. Many of these interviews are truly evergreen, I believe. And for those interested in our college deep dive episodes, do please check those out as well. I hope you're all enjoying your summers as you listen to this by the pool, and we'll be back in August with some fresh episodes for season four of Mapping the College Audition. Some cool new programs we've been trying to schedule for a while, some new voices from some of the most competitive programs, and a few different kinds of schools, like another non-audition BA program, etc., as well as some really cool new artists always.

If you ever have feedback for the podcast you'd like to give us, and that feedback doesn't fit neatly into a five-star rating and review, don't hesitate to reach out to us at mailbag at mapping the college edition.com. Even while we're on break, we'll still be reading our email because we are siccos. Happy summer.

[1:15] Charlie Murphy: Hello and welcome to Mapping the College Audition, a podcast where we explore the landscape of the college theater world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. I am still your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. And today we have got a juicy, juicy juicy show lined up for you. The wonderful Alex Brightman is on the show and gives some really great insight into his take on the comedic process of developing a role. I think you're really gonna enjoy that. And yes, holy crap, I got married. Yeah, it was awesome. The whole family is still on Cloud 9, and we are so appreciative of all the love sent our way, including by so many of you, our MTCA family, and our Mapping the College Audition listeners.

So thank you for that. We're sending that love right back to you, and we're full of love right now in this time of our lives. Um, I hope you all had wonderful holiday weekends. And for our seniors really diving into the school year, here we go. Uh, we just had our first MTCA mock auditions of the year and also just announced the schools for our private audition weekend in mid-December. So I hope you're all successfully planning out your audition landscape to try to use these months productively and set yourself up for that prime audition season in January and February. This is always a really full few months, but if you use them well, the new year can really be fun. I promise, I promise that is true.

Speaking of fun, I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation with Alex. He really is a delight. You'll notice at the top, I mentioned that I'm reading his bio for a second time. I'm not gonna subject you to the specifics of the comedy, but my wonderful substitute assistant for this episode somehow gave me the beginning of someone else's bio that I confidently read out to Alex before he was like, oh no, that's not me. I didn't go to school there. Nope, I didn't do that show. Uh and it was very funny, but then I was like, okay, we're gonna take a second and try this again and figure it out. And we did. We did, we figured it out, and it was all great. Um luckily the conversation only goes upward from there. Uh so I think you really enjoy this conversation with Alex Brightman. Let's get to it.

[3:24] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Alex Brightman, whose bio we'll be reading for a second time because of some grave errors in the first reading. But Alex went to the Tisch School of the Arts for two years, and we'll talk about his training there. He's been on Broadway in shows like Glory Days, which is Glory Day, maybe is what you're telling me. Yep, that's what we call it. The glory day. Um he was Bach in Wicked, he was Michael Wormwood in Matilda the Musical. He originated Beetlejuice in Beetlejuice, for which he received a Tony Nom. Originated Dewey in School of Rock on Broadway, for which he received a Tony Nom. He's been all over your TV and stuff like The Blacklist, Law and Order, SVU, maybe if any of these things are true. Yeah, they're all true. All true. Okay. Well, uh an interesting beginning there of your bio. But Alex, how are you doing? Welcome on the pod. We're so excited to see you.

[4:11] Alex Brightman: I'm fabulous. I'm happy to be here. I'm on vacation right now. So I'm like, I planned kind of this little press day for talking about, you know, Lou Burger and the Wizard of Friendship and all that, and to chat with people about anything and everything. So I'm happy to do this. It's kind of breaking up the wonderful laziness that is this vacation. I like to feel like I've done some. Yeah, I've done, I feel like I've done something now.

[4:36] Charlie Murphy: It makes me feel better about my life that you're not just living in a palace in New York.

[4:39] Alex Brightman: I was like, where could you be that you have these ceilings and this much light and this? No, this is a rental that we saved a lot of money and we ate peanut butter jelly sandwiches for weeks to kind of make this happen. So, no, no, no palace, regular apartment that we rent in New York City, and this is a house we're renting once and maybe probably once only at this point, which is just great.

[5:00] Charlie Murphy: Popping the bubble for our listener, you're popping the glorious bubble.

[5:03] Alex Brightman: That's right.

[5:03] Charlie Murphy: Um, but I'm gonna start you off with the same question I start all of our artist guests off, which is just if you can take me back a little to when you were thinking about college for the first time. So 16, 17, maybe even earlier, when you were thinking, hey, I think I maybe want to be an actor, if you were thinking that, and you were looking at what do I need out of a college experience that might get me there. Um, talk me through what was going on in your mind back then.

[5:25] Alex Brightman: I preface this by saying that I'm not a great researcher still. So when I was looking at the idea of college, I just figured you went. I just didn't know you had a choice, like you didn't do a gap or whatever. So I had just kind of asked people and saw where people I liked went, and most of it was NYU. So I just heard NYU, NYU to school of the arts, and that's where you gotta be. And so I had friends that I looked up to, so that's where I wanted to be. So when I started thinking about it, I thought about all the ones people talk about, Michigan, CCM, Carnegie Mellon, like all the ones that were out there when I was coming up. Um and then what I ended up doing was I applied and got into the summer high school program at NYU.

So when I was a junior, I took a month and a half out there to sort of live what it would be. And I fell madly in love with it. The city, the whole atmosphere, the doing of classes. I was like, didn't have a lot of like acting classes where I'm from, which is San Jose, California. I did community theater, but I didn't really invest in like the idea of classes. So this really spoke to me. And then I didn't want to go anywhere else. So I applied and I had good enough grades, I guess, and the audition kind of put me over and I went. And I guess I didn't look back.

[6:40] Charlie Murphy: At the time, were you thinking, hey, I want to be actively working in school? I guess I'm assuming that that work is what pulled you out of school, though I guess that you could tell me if that's not true. But were you thinking I want to be meeting casting directors and thinking about in classes, but actually actively working while I was in school?

[6:57] Alex Brightman: Yeah, I learned by doing. I have a very hard time sitting still. And so I thought that being in acting school meant you're just up all the time doing stuff and being creative. And when I went to NYU, and this is not to disparage NYU at all, because I think it's a fantastic school, and I'm glad I went, it just wasn't working for me at the time and that's perfectly okay I found. Um and so that was kind of part one of like okay I'm not feeling like I'm getting what I need out of this bits and pieces and nice to meet friends who have similar, you know, wants and ambitions. And then yes, and then I ended up auditioning. They kind of tell you not to, you know, audition while you're there and they want to kind of build you up.

But most people go there, you're in New York City, so it's like hard to like not get up for an open call. Youth casting directors could come to your shows and I mean just you're this, you now have the whole industry is available to come check you out and, you know, smell you if you went there well. And it's, you know, you're in New York so you could go perform anywhere all the time. And so just, you know, the idea of relegating it to just one school thing that they only when you allow are allowed to do it felt wrong to me. So I ended up auditioning and after two years of a little bit of like being miserable kind of what was going on with me at least and getting very fortunate and booking something, I ended up getting a play and I went to LA and I took a leave of absence from school which I'm still on and I'm 36 years old. So I'm still on a very long leave of absence. Yeah. Maybe I'll return. I probably won't.

[8:29] Charlie Murphy: And did you think about, so you know, as you're deciding to take that leave and maybe even thinking at the time or at some point hey this is probably permanent, did you think about there are things I want to make sure I continue training wise whether it's about voice acting education stuff. Was there stuff that you go what am I missing in those two years or that you thought about I want to continue this or complete this in some other way?

[8:50] Alex Brightman: That's an excellent question. I do think about it. I think about like I know that everything kind of panned out okay, but like I wonder what I missed and what I would have enjoyed, you know, were I to have just stuck it out. Um but I find that I've always, I've looked back now, easier to say now because I look back on it, that I've found specialized ways of learning. And I think that's an important thing for people to hear when they go to college, because the college has a curriculum and a syllabus, and everything on the syllabus you're gonna learn. But with theater and the arts, there is no cap to the learning. So that syllabus represents, you know, like a glass of water in the ocean. It's like there's so much more to learn, but you as the actor, as the student, need to be aware enough to go, what am I missing?

And what I was missing was improv, sketch comedy, comedy in general. Like I spent so much time not wanting to go to dance class. And if I just did, I would be missing out on all the stuff I really want to do, and you really only get one shot at this. So specialization became kind of this like extracurricular for me that I'm glad I stuck with.

[9:56] Charlie Murphy: And does that mean when you think about stuff like comedy, like, are you thinking like I'm gonna go take UCB classes or I'm gonna go like are you doing it? It was literally classes, not just while you're in the show, I'm gonna work on this comedy.

[10:05] Alex Brightman: Well, right, but I think that it's everything. I think that yes, I sought out certain things and classes, by the way, some of which were free, and I just want that to be out there because I think people need to know that to take class or to learn, you do not need to necessarily have the means to afford it. Like, I think if you're smart, you can find free stuff, especially with the internet now. I mean, you can take full acting classes online for free. You can watch every single performance that has ever been, you know, on screen. And now all that is learning, all that is class if you do it the right way. So yeah, I mean, I wanted to do outside work on what I was being to fill in the gaps. And yeah, in shows, you get the benefit of time because once your show's up and running, you have your whole day. And I don't like to rest on the idea that, oh, I just have my show at night, that's when I'll work. I want to work on the stuff that I'm not working on in the show.

[10:58] Charlie Murphy: Very well said, I think, in the online of it all of drinking of the ocean that's not just in that little cup. I think so, yeah. Um, but tell me a little about your journey from, you know, landing that play in LA to now moving to New York for the one glory day and then Bach and Wicked. So it seems like, well, this is really exciting. You found Broadway success in a way that a lot of people find Broadway success, but it's so exciting. And then all of a sudden it's like, and we'll talk about the second half of it, this journey to oh my god, I'm originating two lead roles in Broadway. That's a whole other life. But tell me about that first sort of jump to I'm doing it, I'm on Broadway and I'm playing some cool roles.

[11:31] Alex Brightman: I'll answer that with starting at Wicked because Glory Days is it's kind of its own like really micro, you know, thing. Totally. Uh that's that's its own wild and wacky story that doesn't really represent a lot of like what it means to be in a show consistently on Broadway. Um with Wicked, for me, it was a huge I learned that a lot of the stuff is the same, like doing community theater, like a lot of the stuff on stage, acting with your friends, rehearsing, that is all of the same. I mean, it's at a bigger budget, and you're getting paid and there's like more people watching you. But what I learned and what I started to figure out that nothing could have taught me, and I think that they should teach this in college, is how to do an eight-show week, is how to be a professional outside and inside of your show, how to be a leading human being.

Um, like not just a leading man, because I played Bach. I play I've been I was in the ensemble of big fish. I was, you know, I so I didn't lead these shows, but leadership skills are so important in a show, no matter who you're playing, no matter who you are. And so I think what when I got on Broadway, I thought I like reached the pinnacle and that's it. But it's like there's such learning lessons to have to be successful and consistent as a working actor that really is hard to teach. And I think if somebody were able to come up with that kind of curriculum, they would have invented a really better mousetrap.

[12:56] Charlie Murphy: It's so true. And how, you know, I just question for later on in the show, but uh I'm inspired to ask it now. Just how are you thinking about stuff like type? Um, you know, that we've had a couple conversations of type on the show, and it seems like, and maybe we can get into um Bach to Dewey or to however you want to think of the transition, but it seems like you have had some experiences where you really were sort of playing into a very under commercially understandable type, sometimes where you're going, I'm getting to expand in and around it. But are you thinking about that? Are you thinking about here's a definable role that I fit into and that I can use as a brand?

[13:29] Alex Brightman: Yeah, how are you sort of considering those questions? First of all, I'm offended that you don't think that Bach to Dewey is a natural transition. I can't thinking about that as actually so crazy to what I looked like. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes.

[13:48] Alex Brightman: So like for me, it was never about a brand or like how to, you know, market myself. I don't know if I've ever been amazing at that. I think I am fine at putting myself out there and making conversation, but no, I never thought about it really as like, here's a role I want to play, or here's because I think it's crazy to assume that you're gonna get it, number one, because there's billions of actors, and why would anybody get anything? You know so I am a believer in like the harder you work, the luckier you get, you know, so but I I I don't know if I think about it in the scope of like branding and who and like what I am and what I represent. I just want to work. And so I try my best to make enough connections and enough fans that more people want me in more rooms.

And if it means I'm playing the third shrub to the left I hope that I can find some like really amazing stuff there. But as long as I'm on stage and I have some light on me, I'm happy. And and I think that you get to a point in your career like now like with the two Tony nominations where nobody can see that as anything but me trying to be fake humble. But like I would so much rather be in a show in any part than not in a show waiting for the right part.

[15:04] Charlie Murphy: And was there a point in the career I guess where you are saying no to third shrub on the left because of the possibility of do we or because you know I guess was there a point where I mean I I kind of assume there is a yes but was it a conscious moment when you're saying it's not just not not just going to naturally build but I am going to say I think I am I think I've learned these leadership skills and I think I'm ready to lead a company in a new show and you know and so I'm not gonna take this other thing that would take me away did that happen to you at some point I've embraced it.

[15:31] Alex Brightman: I think it didn't it it was thrust upon me by uh my wonderful representatives like my manager who was the first to tell me like this whatever this role was offered to me or that I auditioned for that I or I wanted to audition for the in no uncertain terms, they were like, This is not your next thing. And to hear that is hard because you're like, I want to do this. Uh-huh. But sometimes what it's about is it just takes you away or takes you out of contention for the next thing that potentially would be worth the squeeze. So I've embraced it. I it's hard because you just want to say yes to everything. Um, and I feel very lucky that I get to be privileged enough now and have worked hard enough that I do get to be a little choosy.

And I don't think that'll last. I don't I don't think it lasts for anybody. I think you have your time and and and you get to do with what you want. I'm a big believer in momentum. So I've been trying to use that for the last decade and a half and to success. But yeah, I mean, I think that's I have embraced where I am. Like I know where I sit now in the world of theater that I am a veteran that can be trusted. So if someone allows me to choose something, I will choose carefully.

[16:39] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love that. And and it's something it's a really I think a really smart way to think about if you're gonna choose not to think about conversations of type or brand or status. I guess we're in some ways you're saying that up with third trev on the left, but to say I do I under I have people who will do some of that for me, you know, because the industry is gonna some extent gonna consider that and see so for you to be able to go, uh well, I'm able to listen to people who are thinking that way, and that lets me not have to think that way. Let's meet it.

[17:06] Alex Brightman: And I will say this is this is uh a direct quote from you know, my wife, but also who's a casting director and other casting directors I've heard say this, which is so many actors will find ways to not audition for something or not do something because they're afraid or they're anxious or whatever, or they're self-conscious, or they have imposter syndrome. And the way they'll do that is that they'll just type themselves out of a role, they'll say, Oh, this isn't for me, someone else would be but and I've been told time and time I've done it. I mean, I've been that guy, and I've been told time and time again, you are not responsible for typing you out of something. You may be the right thing that they don't know they're looking for.

And so I do I I try actively to not think about that now because it is like if somebody asks me to audition for something, it means that they think there might be potential there. They want to use it. Yes, maybe you're the the five percent chance, but there's some chance or they wouldn't be wasting their time. It's it's and it's always nice to be seen.

[17:56] Charlie Murphy: Ain't that the truth? Um, but so tell me a little bit about that progression from all right. So now you you aren't playing third shrub on the left or doing one day musicals, you now are playing two pretty iconic originating roles. Yeah. What was that momentum build like? And what you when or when do we start appreciating when do we start, you know, feel like, oh my god, this is real, it's really happening. Like, how was that experience?

[18:17] Alex Brightman: It was I mean, it was wacky because it happened in the way that you hear in like on Smash, like you know, it happened in a way that is not normal. So I say that really, really pointedly that like what happened to me was not like the like, and then you did this, and then you did this, and obviously you did this. I did a workshop of School of Rock where I played an ensemble member. I did a reading, the director took a shine to me. Personally, knew I was a writer, knew I did improv. So they brought me in to sing some stuff. They found that I played guitar. They offered me the workshop to workshop the role. Pretty much every step of the way I knew because they told me I was not gonna play the role.

Right. You're gonna be stunned cast later. Well, bring it up. You're gonna, yeah, you're gonna help develop the role, which by the way, I had a reputation of doing anyway. So I was thrilled to be a part of it to meet Andrew Lloyd Weber. I was like, how do you say no to that? Yep. And to and to eventually be able to point to a show and go, I helped with that. That's really cool. Yep. And then what happened was we did two big runs of the show in the rehearsal room, and enough of Angelo Lloyd Weber or whoever's fancy friends said, That's your guy. Like, there's no that's the right guy. Forget celebrity. There's this will sell tickets. The show will sell if this guy's in it. And they had enough good faith and trust and risk, I guess.

They were out of their minds a little to hire an essential nobody who was about to do his fifth Broadway show. But to just do it. And so that next day, when they told me I was going to do it, everything changed. There was no progression. It was like I went from a utility player who was probably pretty good at character acting and improv and doing a bunch of workshops to being the star of Andrew Lloyd Weber's next Broadway show overnight. And it's, you know, I've just now, I think, really understand what that means and what the responsibility of that is and what it did for me. But in the moment, dude, there's like no way to prepare yourself to just have the ri have 50 newspapers in 50 states have your name in it that day.

[20:22] Charlie Murphy: Right. It's almost like I mean it's the positive version of the actor's nightmare or whatever. You're like, oh my God, I'm really I'm doing this now. This is real. It's like yeah, it's like the worst and best lottery that you win. Like you're like, everything changes completely, and you there is a total ambivalence. You're like, this is unbelievable. Oh my god, what do I do with this? Yep. It's so funny. I mean, you know, I think there are really no normal paths of like this is how it always goes. There's sort of what we picture as like at least a steady progression. But I'll say, like, what you just described sounds very similar. We just had Jesse Mueller on the pod. It sounds very similar to her experience that she was developing on a clear day.

She was all she was like, maybe I'll be you'll be the cover. They were told told that directly, you know. So I, you know, for all those people out there who are playing development roles expecting covers, you know, it's obviously possible the same way that being a reader, you can get cast. It's it's unusual, but not not uh, you know, remarkable.

[21:14] Alex Brightman: No, it happens, but I also think it speaks to like your perspective. Like if you are told, even if you're blatantly told you will not play this role, uh that in my opinion does not mean that your response you go, well, then I'll do this at 70% then. Right. Like, I just think that everything is for something later, even if it's for that role. If not, maybe it was for something else. But also if you're not in the room giving 100%, I don't care who you are. I just think that that's a crazy thing to give anything less than 100%, whatever your 100% is, by the way, because it's different. And and that could mean something totally different. But to not do that when you have so little chances to do it, because theater doesn't give you amazing chances all the time. Why would you go like, well, I'll only do it if you know, just do it.

[21:59] Charlie Murphy: So true. Um, can we talk and we'll we'll do one more question, then we'll do a little break, we'll do a deep dive, we'll get into our game. But um can we can we talk about your chords of steel? Because I have no idea if this is your reality, but you seem to be able to in the things I've seen you, and you seem to be able to sustain singing and speech in a way that it sounds like it would be very effortful to the average person. Like, is that something that is trained? Is that just something you feel like you were born with? Like, what do you do to take care of your voice? In you know, if you're doing a long Beetlejuice, you're doing a long school of rock. Like, what tell me about these these chords of steel that I've heard about?

[22:32] Alex Brightman: I think the chords of steel were a real thing that developed when I was young, and my parents raised me on crazy, you know, rock and roll, gospel music and Hollow Oats and Todd Rundgren and Aerosmith. And so I think you grow up and your vocal cords are muscles, so they get stronger or weaker depending on how you use them. So I think mine grew up strong. Uh-huh. However, during School of Rock, um, I believed the same thing you just said. I believed that I was, you know, totally unbreakable and cords of steel, and I've been told that, you know, you know, I recover quickly. And then on stage during a, you know, sleepy Wednesday matinee, I hemorrhaged a vocal cord. And so and and uh and and what that means, I technically what it means is your your vocal cord stretches or it's used to a point where it starts to bleed or bruise.

And you can't use it as well or at all. And so I had this real scary, scared straight moment of like, okay, so it's not effortless, and if you don't do it the right way, your career's over. So from that moment up until this day, I'm talking to you, I started kind of in this journey of like vocal health and really warming up, training, being with a vocal pathologist, vocal coach, doing all the things I could to make sure things would just go right from now on. And it was a little more a little more of a sacrifice than I wanted to do because it feels kind of boring, you know. No one likes to do voice lessons. Right. Much easier to walk. I don't care who you walk in and be like, I sound amazing.

I didn't even practice. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't care who you are. If you're like, if you're yeah, no one's skipping into a voice lesson. It feels like you're one of the principal's options. And so but you gotta do it and it works.

[24:07] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And so my thing was like with the Beetlejuice voice, I went at it completely on a health way. I didn't look at it like, let's create it first and then figure out how to make it healthy. That was gonna be the total wrong thing to do. So we went at it slowly but surely, and thankfully Beetlejuice developed for that long that we could give it the time it deserved. And so it's a little bit of both. I found the grit myself where it was in my voice, and then I used my vocal coach, pathologist, and ENT to make sure I wasn't damaging myself. And slowly we built it from being able to do it for five minutes to 15 minutes to two and a half hours.

[24:41] Alex Brightman: You you just gave me like the perfect we're talking about a little basketball before you, you know, we started recording. You gave me the perfect like basketball analogy. It was like you, as like you're singing Holland Oats is like your MJ, like holding on to the pull-up bar to stretch and get taller, right? Like all these uninvincible athletes up to a certain point, and then you know they hit mid-career and they're like, all right, it's time to start using the hyperbaric chamber and extend like I'm not actually invisible, invincible just because I'm you know incredibly strong, or you know, um, I find yeah, I I think that a little bit of humility and a little bit of like self-awareness is really good for a long career because you need to know that you are just gonna get older and you're gonna get uh I I I just think you get, and I say this in a good way, I think you get worse.

And so you have to keep keeping an eye on that when you get older and more worn. I sound like I'm 90 when I'm saying this. We get worse. I mean I'm just like we're I'm down the down slide. It's all downhill from here. Right. In theater years, I'm 90. I'm 36, but I feel like it's like dog years. Uh and we're just pickled by air conditioning, which is why I look so good. Um, for those of you listening, I don't.

[25:48] Charlie Murphy: But uh for those of you listening, he does.

[25:52] Alex Brightman: He does. That's right. Uh but yeah, I think that it's about uh health is important, and I don't think I think artists have a hard time putting time aside for health because it doesn't feel artsy. And as our therapists would say, the real strength is realizing you do have a breaking point, you know.

[26:08] Charlie Murphy: I love that. I do. I do. Yes, I do. I agree with that.

[26:11] Alex Brightman: Um, well, on that weird note, let's take a break and on the back end, we'll dive into some comedy with Alex Brightman back in the flash.

[26:18] Charlie Murphy: Oh, good. We are back with the great Alex Brightman, and we're gonna dive deeper into some comedy.

[26:26] Alex Brightman: You keep laughing every time I say the great. Is it that it is that what it is?

[26:29] Charlie Murphy: Well, just it's it's I'm so I I'm so flattered that you uh you know my full name that like Alex Brightman is short for the great Alex Brightman. I uh you're far from the first person who when hearing their name said twice, you've said fuller, like that feels so weird. But it's like I'll say from our students' perspective, none of them would be like, yeah, of course it's Alex Brightman. No, like no, you know, that's how they see you.

[26:50] Alex Brightman: That's very nice. You know, it's it's just very nice. And it's I don't know how to react to hearing that. So that's really just my defense mechanism is to laugh.

[26:59] Charlie Murphy: Oh, good. We'll do more therapy.

[27:00] Alex Brightman: Yeah, I heard defense mechanism. So we're gonna pause the podcast and get into it. No, um, let's chat about so you know, with each of our artists, we try to do a little bit of like a um granular deep dive of like one specific subject. We did this a little bit with Annalie Ashford. We talked about sort of comedy in general, but I want to like maybe zoom in on physical comedy. Not that you don't also uh understand all kinds of comedy, but um, I just do think it's something that you're really remarkable at, you know, and it's such a uh uh part of the musical theater canon, you know, of the sort of um some kind of broad physical comedy, not always broad, but some kind of a physical comedy. So I want to get a little into that and maybe just start off with how do you approach that?

[27:37] Alex Brightman: You kind of mentioned what this is my vocal approach to Beetlejuice to make sure it's sustainable. How do you approach, uh, let's just broadly comedy when creating a character, but maybe then especially if we're gonna posit that a Dewey or a Beetlejuice have some things that are kind of different about them than Alex Brightman. So we're putting some character on the character there. How do you explore those differences, you know, as you're in a room? I think the short answer is trial and a lot of error. Um, but that trial part is crazy important. And depending on the role, I mean, I think theater in general is a full contact sport. Like, you can't point to many shows that don't take something physical out of you.

Um, but with like School of Rock, it was, you know, jumping off things and sliding around cartwheels and, you know, all that kind of stuff, and Beetlejuice was less stamina, but more physical, uh, contortion kind of stuff. Um, and that just comes from like, I mean, I've said this before a lot recently, but it's like the more you fall on your face, the more, and I mean that physically and, you know, metaphorically, metaphorically and dramaturgically, and, you know, on the table, uh, the you've, you just are able to sort of make the sieve that you run your choices through smaller so that when you start like getting choices that fall through your head, you go, that's not a Beetlejuice choice. That's not a Beetlejuice choice.

Oh, there's one, and it catches. Um, and then you want to invest in it. And my advice, you know, not that it was this is completely unsolicited, but I think is, uh, worth hearing is that when you are developing something physically, because I try everything. I walk into a room and, and I've just, uh, Carrie Butler said she was like, she explains like being in a rehearsal room with me is her words, not mine. She says being in a rehearsal room feels dangerous. She says it feels like it feels like rehearsing with a tornado, I think she said or something. Mainly just because I look at rehearsal like a process. I don't look at it as a means to an end. And sometimes that doesn't work for people because they need to stage something.

But I've been really lucky to work with people that just allow me to do what I need to do because I've earned the trust. I didn't just walk in and say, I know better than all of you. So you earn the opportunity to mess around, and you earn the opportunity to take an hour and go, what if it's all this? Uh-huh. And the whole day could be wrong. You could burn a whole day doing that. But at the very least, now you know what you're not doing. But the advice is once you find the thing, make sure you can do it more than, uh, you know, 10 times a week because the mistake I made in School of Rock was saying yes to everything. And what that ended up doing was hemorrhaging a vocal cord, hurting my knees, my back is no longer the same, my ankle is no longer the same.

And if I would, and I learned all those lessons, and for Beetlejuice, my whole show I could do 10 times a week if I needed to. Uh-huh. Because it, because of all the work we did physically, I knew what I was capable of, and I knew what absolutely no way in hell could I do more than once a week. And I just, and then no matter how much I love that choice, it has to not happen. Uh-huh. It's such a good advice. But I want to hear more about, and I it's really great analogy of both the trial and error, but then also sort of the sieve. You know, in that trial and error, what makes something an error? What makes something like is it really is it the rehearsal? Like I say, it's a comedic choice in this case.

Is it the rehearsal room and laughs? Is it more your own instinct? Like, let's because you know, do you if you're making a choice and you go, I didn't get a laugh, but is there some part of you goes, but there's something there? I want to, uh, do I need to tweak it? I think I'm on that path through it. Who is the judge and the jury in this trial and error? It's a great question. That is an excellent, excellent question. I'm not sure there's like a concise concrete answer to this, but I think it's, it's kind of all that you said, but you need to be really, really self-aware and honest with yourself that not everything you do is genius. And I think that with comedians and egotists and like, and I'm speaking about myself, um, you know, those are the same things, those are the same comedians, the goods, that was one narcissists.

Narcissists, right? We're all the same kind of people that like thrive. Well, we thrive on also like instant, uh, feedback, uh-huh, and if it's not good, it's offensive, or could be. But if you are able to kind of take yourself out of the equation and go, okay, what is good for the show, yeah, you know, I think that that's a really good again with the Civ thing, it's like I liked this choice, and I'm gonna mourn not being able to make this choice again, but it's clearly not working. Yep. And you can, there are, and I think this comes with time and experience. Like, you know, this wasn't always how I felt or how I did it, or how I got good at it. You can see merit in a bad bit and develop and work on it.

But for the most part, you know, your first instincts are usually the right ones, you just have to figure them out. Um, it is about being free enough to feel like a fool in front of others, um, knowing that they are gonna lift you up when it gets right, you know, they're not gonna go home and go, look at all those bad choices that like you have to get rid of that mindset that people are gonna go home and talk about you, I mean they'll talk about you for sure, but then I'm like that. Nobody, but really truly, nobody is going home. And the interesting conversation with their significant other is the things that didn't work in rehearsal. That laugh is half as big as it used to be, and I think it's Alex's fault.

Like, no, it's well, that's right. And like, but but I am an anxious, you know, person with imposter syndrome when I first get into a process, and so I always think every choice has to be right. And so the more I can jettison that idea and just go, we have six hours in this room, yep. This scene is four pages. We're not gonna, we cannot just run the scene over. Let's let's screw some shit up. Let's let's let's try. Well, and what about the other side of things where when you get something very right? Oh my god, we found a bit that's really funny, maybe early in the process. How do you deal with that early success? Like, are you logging it and going away from it? Because you're like, this is not going to be funny for the next two months of a rehearsal room, and then it's gonna die.

Or are you the person who goes, keep twisting, keep refining? Like how do you deal with that win when it happens? That is a, that is a question that speaks so near and dear to my heart. And I don't know if I've ever gotten that question before. Um, Rob McClure and I were just talking about this. Like when a bit works early, that's a curse. [34:04] Dangerous. It's dangerous because what ends up happening is two things in a rehearsal room, which can go really wrong for an audience later. One is the laugh gets a crazy big laugh because it's never happened before and it's hitting people for the first time. The more you rehearse it, no one's gonna laugh because they know the joke's. But you have to trust that when I said first instinct, yeah, you have to keep remembering the first time that hit people, because that's how it's gonna hit an audience for the first time.

So you keep those, you keep the gold, you keep the bits, you can continue to do other things. But the other day this is part two, yep, the other dangerous thing is when people start to laugh at you and not the bit, it's because they know you. Fellow actors in the room will laugh at things because you're you, but people buying a ticket to the show have are laughing at the characters' choices, and all you have to remember that they don't know you, so they're not gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just funny. So I think that's super important to understand that if your bits work in the room, great, but understand why. Yeah, because if I've seen so many people do an amazing bit that worked just for their friends, because they know a certain context, as we had lunch at Panera and something funny happened.

And the audience goes, I don't even know what Panera is. Yeah. I don't care about this. It's so true. And there's when you're at step one, I've watched a lot of young actors and shows just put more and more blood into the thing that worked, not knowing why it didn't work. And then by the end of the, then they're done, it actually doesn't work in front of an audience anymore either. Because they've squeezed it and twisted it to keep trying to get to chase that laugh. Well, you forgot what it was. I mean, it was like it's yeah, it's just you can't get back to that original thing. So repetition is good. Um, that you know, I talk a lot about changing things up and mixing things up, but when you find something that is good, it is important to write that down or remember it because it is, and that's the same thing with auditions, by the way.

I would say, and callbacks is that people tend to like call back the same scene, you know, like four times, and you as the actor think, oh, I have to change it and evolve it. It's actually totally wrong. Right. They're bringing new people in to see the thing that works. Yes, yes, yes. And I think that a few people understand that, but I think a majority of actors need to hear that because you booking a role is imperative on you being consistent. Yep, it's so true. It's so true. Um, what about I'm asking a very specific thing because it's you did it so well in both School of Rock and Beetlejuice. This seem this thing seems to exist in the musical theater sometimes where you have a scene or a song or a moment that is not particularly funny on the page that needs to become funny, right?

Like so because there's something where it's like we've got a scene where it's like this is kind of funny, let's make it funny together or whatever. Like if you are given a bit of physical comedy where it's like, hey, make something here, right? And hopefully your director doesn't actually say to you, hey, this is fun, make something funny here. But if that's the direction you got, you'd be surprised. Yeah. Okay, so if you do get that, how do you approach that when you're like, I'm basically starting from I have like the snippet of a song that's not funny, but now I know I've got do I'm grabbing a prop, I'm grabbing or whatever, and I'm trying to try to make something funny out of nothing. What is that physical exploration like?

Like what how do you approach the storytelling? How do you approach the trial and error? What are you doing to explore a sort of physical bit, if we're gonna call it that? For me, I think it starts before the physical bit of this. It's what you just said about when you have something that you consider not funny. Um, I think you know it's undeniable that you get to a thing and you're like, I wouldn't have written it that way, or that's like I, but you are not the writer, and most of the time you don't have the green light to go to the writer and go, hey, this isn't funny. Uh-huh. You know, and as a writer, I totally now get that tenfold. Like, you know, if somebody comes up to you and goes, I don't think this is the right line.

You're like, How dare you? Oh, dude. I gave you a banana. It's funny. Figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is funny. Why? Because it's funny. Yeah. Um, but I think that I tend to do a better job of trying to forget that part and just going, This is funny. Okay, this is this is funny. Sure. Let's assume it's funny. Okay, that's fine. Let's assume it's funny, is always good. Assuming the best out of a bit is always gonna help in the same way like when you play a bad guy, you don't you don't know he's a bad guy, right? So you assume the best in a bit, and then I always like to look at what's there. So you read them, I have to read you have to read the material. People try to like look at a bit once, try to memorize and go, what can I do with this?

Read it, read the bit, enjoy the bit, invest in the bit, look at it like an audience member. Stop looking at it like choices right away. In the same way you try to like memorize line by line, read the scene first. Then your memorizing is gonna be great. So read the bit. How does it fit into the scene? If you have questions about it though, ask the writer. What is this? Not this isn't funny, because let's make it work. And so physicalizing it, whatever it is, you know. I try to see what is the most obvious choice to make, and then, you know, work backwards. What's the least obvious choice to make? Because all of them are valid. Because sometimes the obvious choice is the funniest one, right? Falling down, farting, whatever.

All that's funny. Farting is funny. I have a one and a half year old. Farting is funny to her. I'm like, why? How? Why is that funny to you? Yeah. You don't know enough to make it. It is the funniest thing in the world. That's the, there's, I mean, that's blowing your nose, boogers. The first time we said boogie to her, she brought laughing. Like, what, why are these things funny? I'm a big fan of base humor. Um, because I think that there's a reason it exists. There's a reason it's just big fan, big fan of the reverence of what came before all of this specificity is good. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that I have found the most success in seeing what is there. Okay, this is obvious, and then really going home with it and not leaving your script at the door and taking your job home with you a little bit and just thinking about it.

What is the, what's the least I can do with this? Too, like what's because nothing's funny, you know? Like nothing can be very funny. A look is very funny, something that is big, and also remember what show you're in. That's the big Beetlejuice lesson I learned. The show is big enough. Uh-huh. So if you're big on top of that shit, it's like it actually feels cringy, and yeah, it feels like you're too doing too much. If you let the show work for you, that being said, if you're in a much more subtle, nuanced show, a big choice might be very funny. So it's contextual, it is about the whole of the show. Are you doing something that is just for you? Yeah. Um and sharing a physical bit is fun too.

I mean, like being able to share with somebody like Rob again, like Rob McClure is a person who I think I'm creative. And then I saw Rob McClure in a rehearsal room, and that guy throws him literally throws himself to the ground for bits. And it works and he's funny and doesn't whatever. I'm constantly inspired by people that are using their body to make comedy or drama. But like using your body is full. I mean, where else do you get to do that? It's, it's so true, yeah. And especially as an adult person. If it's like as kids sometimes we get to do that. But like when else as a 37-year-old whatever person, do you get a chance to do that? You're totally right. What about like, uh, you know, a show like Beetlejuice, which I think feels like, I mean School of Rock too, but uh I'm thinking specifically Beetlejuice, it feels like there's so much improv in it, you know, so much clearly there are some moments that I'm like, this is because the audience member sneezed, or because you know that you're you're able to live in that world.

[41:26] Alex Brightman: And some of it probably improv discovered within the room and those kind of things.

[41:31] Charlie Murphy: How much shifts from night to night? How much is new, you know, versus micro shifts within a pretty well-structured plan? How much is like really, were you really doing new?

[41:41] Alex Brightman: The honest answer is night to night, less than you'd think, because the show lent itself in the room to so many iterations of certain bits that really sometimes I'm just pulling from the gold mine.

[41:54] Charlie Murphy: Yep.

[41:55] Alex Brightman: And then, you know, there are the things where you're just dealing in the moment, you know, with a heckler or somebody who thinks they should be in the show, then you're like, have to shut that down. But the trust is a big thing in comedy, especially with writers and directors. If you gain their trust, the more latitude you're given. Depends on the show. But like Beetlejuice was this borscht belt comedian narrator type. And so they had to give me some latitude. They can't being rigid in that role makes no sense.

[42:23] Charlie Murphy: Right.

[42:24] Alex Brightman: So they knew that I came from a core of improv. We improvised bits to life in the room. So there are things in the show that are scripted that came out of improv, which is why it feels that way.

[42:34] Charlie Murphy: Totally.

[42:34] Alex Brightman: So the greatest compliment we got in the show was like a lot of that felt made up. And we're like, well, that's because at some point it was. But that goes along with keep the bits that work. Like the ones that people love the most were ones that were from five years ago. I mean, it was and they just work. And our job is to forget that they're five years old.

[42:53] Charlie Murphy: Uh-huh.

[42:53] Alex Brightman: And when do you, so just for people who maybe don't know the specific Broadway process, is that now in the previews? Like when are you getting to that point right before you enter previews? When are you starting to go, all right, in my calculus of trial error, trial layer, trial error, I have all these choices. But some of these things obviously need to be set if it's in a manic sequence of set changes and you know you can't totally mess up timings like that. When are you going, all right, let's lock this in while keeping it not locked, keeping it not stale? But when are you trying to say, by this time, I mean, is it opening night? Like when are you at the point where you're going, it's truly locked? Some of these little internal bits.

[43:27] Alex Brightman: Some of them are never locked, which is nice, but some of it, I think that you're right, like right around, you know, during tech, where you is like for people that don't do have never done a long tech process of a show, that's when you lose your show because you don't have any rhythm anymore, you're just stopping and starting. So that's a good time to start when you're doing a bit over and over and over again on stage with a cavernous house that's not laughing. You get to a point where you go, Nope, this has to be the bit. This is it. And then when you get to previews, that's when you get this added instant feedback from the audience, and you go, All right, the bit doesn't work.

[44:02] Charlie Murphy: Sure.

[44:02] Alex Brightman: So you're tweaking, tweaky tweaking. By opening for Beetlejuice, I think like 90% of the show, that might be a little low. 95% of the show was locked, like things we like, things we did, but 5% is a lot.

[44:14] Charlie Murphy: Yep.

[44:15] Alex Brightman: And so the 5% of latitude that I was mainly given, and it was mainly generated by me. I always treated with respect because one, the show needs to be a certain length. Two, the show's not a little bit yell at you at some point and go. We have stage manager trying to call the thing.

[44:28] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[44:30] Alex Brightman: You know, they're trying to call the thing. And you know, I made the stage manager's job very easy because they knew they were in good hands. And I think that came from the rehearsal room, the trust that you build over time. The person who didn't have a very easy time was the person running spotlights.

[44:46] Charlie Murphy: Um just finding you.

[44:49] Alex Brightman: Finding me. And if ever there was a sub-spotlight, God bless. The audience basically caught like my right foot every once in a while. But because I know the show so well, I thought of it like almost, I just said this recently, it's like bowling. It's like we put the bumpers up, and I think the bumpers are the show, and the lane is like you can throw whatever you want, but the bumpers are there to make double sure.

[45:14] Charlie Murphy: Yes.

[45:14] Alex Brightman: Yeah, with as long as you stay in your lane, you know what show you're doing, and you know where you are and what needs to be happening, and for my sake, reading a crowd. Because there are some actors that will bash a joke over the head and the audience doesn't laugh six weeks in a row, and you're like, what are you doing?

[45:30] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[45:30] Alex Brightman: Like you can't, at this point, it's not the audience's fault. You have to change, you have to evolve.

[45:34] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[45:35] Alex Brightman: And so I think it is good to listen. It's good to keep reinvesting in whatever you're doing, and it's okay that things can change slightly.

[45:42] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[45:43] Alex Brightman: It's live.

[45:44] Charlie Murphy: Yep. Well, we talk about that in so many different contexts, but the idea of structure can create creativity. That it's actually hard to be creative in a completely wide open space, but giving yourself enough structure now, you're safe. And now you really can bounce between those bumpers and all those things.

[45:58] Alex Brightman: I love we as young actors always want like ultimate freedom. And then when we get it, we're like, well, but not ultimate. But some rules, though, right?

[46:05] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, tell me what I can't do.

[46:07] Alex Brightman: And then when you, yeah, I mean, it's really you don't want to do that. I think creating with structure is very that's well put. It's the definition of style, too, in a lot of ways. Like when people are like, What is what style is a show? And it's like style feels can feel limiting, but I'm like, style is also what can create creativity. So we're all on the same page creating together. And anyway, we whole other deep dive conversation.

[46:25] Charlie Murphy: But we've got to play our game, Alex.

[46:27] Alex Brightman: We've got to play our game.

[46:29] Charlie Murphy: This game, so each artist gets a game. Sometimes it's silly and I make them spell or I make them do weird things. This is a very simple trivia game.

[46:37] Alex Brightman: Oh, okay.

[46:38] Charlie Murphy: I'm not at a good role with my game. I've not been explaining them well. So I'm gonna really try to make sure I explain that, though I do think it's an easy enough game to understand. All right. The game is called the magic rule of three.

[46:48] Alex Brightman: Okay.

[46:49] Charlie Murphy: A la Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. I'm gonna ask you some fun trivia questions about words and phrases that are repeated three times. So I'll give you little hints, but you're gonna have to just give me the word that is repeated three times. Makes sense? You don't have to say three times unless you want to, but of course I will.

[47:04] Alex Brightman: Are you?

[47:05] Charlie Murphy: No, it's of course I can't. I think this is going to be hard, but fair is what I think. And I'm not always right. The audience sometimes says I have unfair games of our guess.

[47:13] Alex Brightman: Well, I don't care.

[47:16] Charlie Murphy: So it's like I don't, this game, what a spectrum it can be. Josh Sagara, when he played this game, was sweating and like punching his computer screen when it got right answers.

[47:27] Alex Brightman: Alex is gonna sit back and relax the body, it's a very different body than we're getting to.

[47:31] Charlie Murphy: Is it by the way? I went to school with Josh. I was in an a cappella group with Josh Seguerra.

[47:36] Alex Brightman: You better.

[47:36] Charlie Murphy: And that he is the definition of like the most human sunrise of a human being on the planet. And if you, if people listening haven't seen The Other Two, you have to.

[47:48] Alex Brightman: You must for him.

[47:50] Charlie Murphy: I mean for everybody, but he's such a standout.

[47:53] Alex Brightman: The Other Two.

[47:53] Charlie Murphy: Here we are advertising other people's shows on this.

[47:56] Alex Brightman: No, but Josh and I played basketball together on an intramural basketball team.

[47:59] Charlie Murphy: Oh nice for many years in New York, and he is as competitive as you would imagine he is in basketball as well.

[48:04] Alex Brightman: And very love it.

[48:05] Charlie Murphy: Okay, here we go. We're into the game. There's a little mini rounds here. The first one, these are all gonna be little phrases, little words, no other big theme to this.

[48:12] Alex Brightman: Okay, we're just getting more.

[48:14] Charlie Murphy: Okay. So this, when repeated three times, can mean either etc. or shut up, depending how you say it.

[48:23] Alex Brightman: When repeated three times, it can mean etc. or shut up.

[48:26] Charlie Murphy: Blah blah blah.

[48:27] Alex Brightman: Blah blah blah is correct. You're one for one. Alex, oh, and we got a hand clap. He's a little bit of caring's coming. We love it.

[48:34] Charlie Murphy: Okay, here we go. It feels good. It feels good to win. To start off with number one, it feels good. Now you can only go down from here. Ours people, or as men, or as people seemingly need this word repeated three times in order to get any movement going. Perhaps it's because they are so existential.

[48:52] Alex Brightman: Did you say or's men?

[48:54] Charlie Murphy: Orsman.

[48:55] Alex Brightman: O-A-R-S.

[48:57] Charlie Murphy: Exactly.

[48:57] Alex Brightman: Or as people is what I said, but it's a kind of a made-up word.

[49:00] Charlie Murphy: Stroke.

[49:02] Alex Brightman: We're going for a row, row, row.

[49:04] Charlie Murphy: Row, row, row your vote is what I was going for. I thought that was too easy. I thought that was too easy.

[49:09] Alex Brightman: They're starting off easy when they get harder.

[49:11] Charlie Murphy: They get harder, Alex.

[49:12] Alex Brightman: I thought it was gonna this syllable has no meaning on its own, but when repeated, becomes a Cuban dance, and something you can shout when doing that dance.

[49:23] Charlie Murphy: Okay.

[49:24] Alex Brightman: It's one syllable?

[49:25] Charlie Murphy: One syllable, single syllable, repeated three times, becomes a Cuban dance, and something you could shout when doing that dance.

[49:34] Alex Brightman: It's one syllable.

[49:36] Charlie Murphy: That's what's killing me.

[49:37] Alex Brightman: I mean, it'll be three syllables when you say it three times, obviously.

[49:39] Charlie Murphy: No, I understand that, but the what single word is what's it's just one times three is three. I want you to know that.

[49:44] Alex Brightman: Thank you.

[49:46] Charlie Murphy: I don't know.

[49:48] Alex Brightman: I'm sorry.

[49:49] Charlie Murphy: I'm going for cha cha cha.

[49:50] Alex Brightman: Cha cha cha cha.

[49:51] Charlie Murphy: Of course. What's the right answer? Hard. This is no, this is easier than I'm making it. This is no, when you're looking at the answers on paper, it looks easy, but it's not always it's not easy to get there.

[50:00] Alex Brightman: All right, we're moving.

[50:01] Charlie Murphy: You know what you're right. When you don't have the answers in front of you, it's very difficult. Very hard.

[50:05] Alex Brightman: I think it's okay.

[50:07] Charlie Murphy: This is our sports round. Here we are, Alex wearing an OKC Thunder sports hat. The phrase for three goals in a row in hockey does not involve a tip.

[50:18] Alex Brightman: No, it does not repeat it three times. This is just a trivia question.

[50:21] Charlie Murphy: The phrase for three goals in hockey.

[50:23] Alex Brightman: Yeah, that's a hat trick.

[50:24] Charlie Murphy: That's a hat trick, correct. This I didn't know you were zona sports, so this part's gonna be easy. The phrase for three strikes in a row in bowling is this delicious country.

[50:35] Alex Brightman: Yes, it's a turkey.

[50:37] Charlie Murphy: Wow, I'm not would not have known that. Good for you, too. I can tell you this. We did Broadway bowling. Broadway bowling is a big part of the Broadway community. You do Broadway softball, Broadway bowling, and probably bowling is the reason I know about a turkey.

[50:47] Alex Brightman: Alex, you're looking at two years ago, not raining, but was for a while raining, champion of the Broadway show late show league. So believe me, I know a little something.

[50:54] Charlie Murphy: Of bowling?

[50:57] Alex Brightman: No, the Broadway Show Softball League. Not bowling.

[50:58] Charlie Murphy: No, no, no, no, no.

[51:01] Alex Brightman: Congratulations.

[51:01] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, Alex. Thank you. I wanted that.

[51:03] Alex Brightman: Okay. The phrase for three outs in a row in baseball or softball is not something you need to get dressed up for.

[51:11] Charlie Murphy: Three outs in baseball.

[51:14] Alex Brightman: Three three outs in baseball.

[51:16] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, or softball, if you choose.

[51:19] Alex Brightman: Wait, what was the last clue?

[51:21] Charlie Murphy: It's not something you need to get dressed up for.

[51:23] Alex Brightman: This is just creative.

[51:24] Charlie Murphy: I had a little something creative.

[51:25] Alex Brightman: No, I know. I want to, I'm thinking what it could three outs in a row is the end of the inning?

[51:31] Charlie Murphy: An inning, yes.

[51:32] Alex Brightman: So it's not an outing. You know, so not something you need to get dressed up for.

[51:34] Charlie Murphy: Oh, it's an example. Come on, okay with me.

[51:36] Alex Brightman: I'm getting creative with the clue.

[51:38] Charlie Murphy: I'm trying to help you, you know.

[51:40] Alex Brightman: That's really good. I like that.

[51:41] Charlie Murphy: Dare we do some Shakespeare?

[51:43] Alex Brightman: A Shakespeare edition. Here we go.

[51:45] Charlie Murphy: We can do whatever we want. This word repeated three times in the Scottish play is separated by a pesky little and it's an odd word to lead with when in a reflective mood.

[51:57] Alex Brightman: Tomorrow.

[51:58] Charlie Murphy: Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

[52:00] Alex Brightman: Well said. Okay, great.

[52:01] Charlie Murphy: This three times repeated word in King Lear is famously bantered between Lear and Cordelia. It is impossible to describe and yet instantly understood if it exists at all.

[52:14] Alex Brightman: I have no idea.

[52:16] Charlie Murphy: The word is nothing.

[52:17] Alex Brightman: Nothing, nothing, my lord.

[52:18] Charlie Murphy: Nothing will come of nothing.

[52:20] Alex Brightman: No, I didn't have that at all.

[52:21] Charlie Murphy: Okay, great. I would never have had that.

[52:23] Alex Brightman: I could have gotten you to there with the it can be funny, too, because you said nothing can be funny. You had a little clue there.

[52:29] Charlie Murphy: Okay.

[52:29] Alex Brightman: This three times repeated word in Hamlet is the very makeup of this question. He answers it to Polonius as a little extra.

[52:38] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[52:39] Alex Brightman: Uh uh.

[52:41] Charlie Murphy: It is the makeup of this very question.

[52:43] Alex Brightman: Yes.

[52:47] Charlie Murphy: It's it because it has to do with the You're talking about poor Yorick?

[52:53] Alex Brightman: No, I'm on the wrong. I don't know.

[52:55] Charlie Murphy: It's the words, words, words.

[53:00] Alex Brightman: All right, we're gonna do you're sort of you're sort of a like a little bit of the host of um uh what's the one where the host is kind of mean to you?

[53:07] Charlie Murphy: No, Simon from uh American Idol the uh the weakest link.

[53:13] Alex Brightman: Oh, you have like a little bit of like a little sardonic cutting little jab that you give to every wrong answer that I really am enjoying.

[53:22] Charlie Murphy: I mean that genuinely. Fully intentional.

[53:25] Alex Brightman: Um pop culture. This three times repeated word might evoke a 70s era TV show, or it might evoke a Zoom meeting.

[53:35] Charlie Murphy: Three times repeated name.

[53:38] Alex Brightman: Uh a zoom a zoom meeting.

[53:42] Charlie Murphy: Uh uh with many boxes, if that helps.

[53:49] Alex Brightman: I don't have it.

[53:50] Charlie Murphy: We're going for Marsha Marsha Marsha, if we ever did the Brady Bunch. Shout out, we currently have an MTCA student who is Marsha Marsha Marsha on RuPaul's Drag Race. Shout out to you.

[53:59] Alex Brightman: Is that right?

[54:01] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, what a small world.

[54:02] Alex Brightman: Okay.

[54:04] Charlie Murphy: This three times repeated word might have better said what might have better been said one less time to a birdie if you're more into musical theater than 90s boy bands.

[54:14] Alex Brightman: Three times repeated word.

[54:16] Charlie Murphy: Bye-bye.

[54:17] Alex Brightman: You know, bye-bye bye, of course.

[54:18] Charlie Murphy: Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Of course. I went to see the InSync, No Strings Attached Tour, and it was the best concert of my life.

[54:24] Alex Brightman: That you're more in sync than Shakespeare. We're learning about you, Alex. We're learning.

[54:27] Charlie Murphy: We're digging in and we're learning.

[54:29] Alex Brightman: I'm very layered.

[54:31] Charlie Murphy: The Office popularized, popularized this three times repeated word, which describes an optimal solution for Michael Scott and something DJ Khaled knows a little something about.

[54:31] Alex Brightman: An optimal solution for Michael Scott.

[54:51] Charlie Murphy: No idea.

[54:51] Alex Brightman: This is great.

[54:52] Charlie Murphy: It's a win-win-win, win-win-win negotiation if you ever watch The Office.

[54:57] Alex Brightman: This is I I don't watch it as religiously as like some people in my family, but the DJ Khaled thing, I would have no idea.

[55:03] Charlie Murphy: All he does is win-win-win no matter what. He's got money on his mind, and he's got some other things that he wants to talk about, too.

[55:10] Alex Brightman: I don't know. I don't know if I'm a DJ Khaled guy.

[55:12] Charlie Murphy: Let's wrap with musical theater.

[55:13] Alex Brightman: We've had a last one is musical theater.

[55:14] Charlie Murphy: These are not particularly hard, though I'll say very easy.

[55:17] Alex Brightman: A lot of repetition in musical theater, you may know this.

[55:19] Charlie Murphy: Um, this iconic titular phrase is repeated at the end of Sondheim's company's seminal number, and is something you could not accuse Sondheim of.

[55:31] Alex Brightman: Being alive.

[55:32] Charlie Murphy: Being alive is correct.

[55:33] Alex Brightman: Being alive.

[55:35] Charlie Murphy: That is the worst way to end that question.

[55:38] Alex Brightman: This phrase is iconically repeated three times in a carousel song and went viral when Leslie Uggams stumbles around with it.

[55:46] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, Joan, Joan, Joan.

[55:47] Alex Brightman: Yeah, and Joan Jones.

[55:48] Charlie Murphy: See, that's where we're the right age.

[55:49] Alex Brightman: You're the right.

[55:50] Charlie Murphy: I was like, we would have watched this video when it was YouTubing back in the day.

[55:53] Alex Brightman: It was a ringtone, I imagine, at one point.

[55:55] Charlie Murphy: I'm sure.

[55:56] Alex Brightman: All right, last but not least.

[55:57] Charlie Murphy: This titular phrase is repeated three times at the end of a Valjean song in Les Mis.

[56:04] Alex Brightman: It might be said by a third bass coach or a proud news.

[56:08] Charlie Murphy: That's great.

[56:09] Alex Brightman: These are great questions, and it's excellent.

[56:12] Charlie Murphy: Let's bring them home.

[56:13] Alex Brightman: And I love it.

[56:14] Charlie Murphy: That's fantastic.

[56:15] Alex Brightman: Coming down three for three on the musical theater section.

[56:18] Charlie Murphy: That went sports and musical theater.

[56:20] Alex Brightman: Sports and musical theater, you crush.

[56:21] Charlie Murphy: Pop culture, okay.

[56:23] Alex Brightman: Shakespeare, uh ishy, if yeah, the rest was iffy, but pretty good overall.

[56:26] Charlie Murphy: You've won the game.

[56:27] Alex Brightman: You have done enough to win the game for sure.

[56:29] Charlie Murphy: I feel like I feel like on podcasts, if you play a game, even if you get all the answers wrong, usually the host goes, you won the game.

[56:36] Alex Brightman: You've won.

[56:37] Charlie Murphy: You've won.

[56:37] Alex Brightman: There's no losing and winning.

[56:38] Charlie Murphy: You get you get triple the salary we're paying you for being on this podcast.

[56:42] Alex Brightman: Thank you very much.

[56:42] Charlie Murphy: Um talk to me about so uh I want to hear a little bit about what you're here to plug.

[56:46] Alex Brightman: And also maybe, you know, just your relationship with social media plugging in general.

[56:52] Charlie Murphy: Like what how what is Alex Brightman in the world of I'm jumping on podcasts?

[56:57] Alex Brightman: How do you sort of get your brand out to the world and plug things that you're doing?

[57:01] Charlie Murphy: What is your relationship with that process?

[57:03] Alex Brightman: Uh my relationship with social media used to be pretty okay, pretty amicable.

[57:07] Um, and then with sort of with a bit of uh your star rising a little, there becomes that sort of culture of like people want to see you succeed and then they want to cut you down and they want to see so I did experience enough of that, which wasn't a ton, um, but just enough invasion or invasive kind of like stuff, which to really no fault of a ton of people's.

[57:31] I think it's just a lot of like parasocial, relationship-y kind of stuff that just didn't work with me.

[57:37] And it's it works with some, and and they were being genuinely kind.

[57:40] And I so I pulled away from social media.

[57:42] Um, but I think that because of how my career started and is going, I haven't seen a dip in what I've been able to achieve and accomplish without it.

[57:53] So I think I kind of hit a very lucky little time there.

[57:56] Um, but when I do, I mean, the only thing I have social media wise that you can find is an Instagram that I do um a couple Instagram lives on when I do these kind of live signings for the cartoons that I'm on.

[58:08] Um so you can, I mean, tag me, I guess, at on Instagram, uh Brightman Some Say.

[58:14] Uh and so that's it.

[58:16] But you won't find I don't post on it.

[58:18] I just you know does it do these little lives, you do whatever.

[58:21] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[58:21] Alex Brightman: So I the way I get myself out there is I get myself out there.

[58:25] You know, it's like I think that it's I don't uh post pictures of what I'm doing, I just go do stuff and and if and if it works, it works.

[58:32] Uh I my my downtime is very precious to me now.

[58:40] Charlie Murphy: So true.

[58:41] Alex Brightman: But here you are to promote a little something.

[58:43] Charlie Murphy: So plug away.

[58:44] Alex Brightman: Talk to us about what people need to hear about.

[58:46] Well, this is I mean, the the I've been doing a a full day of this, which has been really fun um because we recorded it a minute ago.

[58:53] Uh Louberger, who is you know, Keith, uh Keith Alex and Huey, if for the people that know the fans, uh, and and if you know the try guys and all that kind of stuff, we got a chance to meet during Beetlejuice, and then they sort of became like I'd say like diet texting buddies, like not all the time, but enough.

[59:10] And not about diets, you're just saying light.

[59:12] Alex Brightman: You didn't do it.

[59:13] Like a light texting relationship.

[59:15] It wasn't like a uh, you know, you're I'm accountability buddy, uh like sharing.

[59:18] Charlie Murphy: Iosempic or whatever.

[59:19] Alex Brightman: Yeah.

[59:20] That's right.

[59:20] Charlie Murphy: No, no, don't try something.

[59:22] Alex Brightman: Um or do.

[59:23] I don't know.

[59:23] Charlie Murphy: Or do I don't care.

[59:25] Alex Brightman: I have no stake in the company.

[59:26] Um but uh they just thought I was funny and I the feeling was mutual.

[59:32] And when they had uh their group Lou Burger did this show called The Wizard of Friendship off Broadway, and I was so proud of them because it was so cool to go from like being these internet kind of influencery, like you know, content creators to like wanting to do theater.

[59:47] I'm on board with that 100%.

[59:48] Charlie Murphy: And so they asked me to do a cameo, they asked me for advice about the show.

[59:52] Alex Brightman: I did a cameo in the show, uh, which was fun and one kind of one matinee silliness.

[59:56] And then they asked me to be on this album of the show, which I found to be extremely flattering.

[1:00:01] Uh, me and Wayne Brady and a couple other fun people are on the album.

[1:00:05] It's super silly, it's very much their type of comedy and brand.

[1:00:09] Alex Brightman: Um, I play a character named Flim Flam the Sausage Man, which is easily it's gotta be the best character name I've ever had in anything.

[1:00:19] For sure.

[1:00:19] Charlie Murphy: From Bach to Dewey to Flim Flam the Sausage Man.

[1:00:22] Alex Brightman: Yeah, and it's just it's coming out this month, the album, and it's it's super fun.

[1:00:27] I I implore you all to listen to it.

[1:00:29] There were some absurd songs to the point of Lunacy.

[1:00:32] Um, I'm on it a few times singing a very funny sort of coup de theatre kind of song, a bit of a twist, which I won't spoil for you.

[1:00:40] Charlie Murphy: Um we know how it's available.

[1:00:42] Is it available on online?

[1:00:44] Alex Brightman: Are people downloading it?

[1:00:45] Everywhere you listen to music.

[1:00:46] I think it's literally gonna be on every platform where music is available to you, that's where you can find it.

[1:00:51] Charlie Murphy: And you just Lou Burger the Wizard of Friendship.

[1:00:53] Alex Brightman: And it's a story of you know, friends becoming friends and uh rediscovering their friendship, but it's extremely silly.

[1:01:00] And as I like to say, if you learn anything from this show, you've done it completely wrong.

[1:01:04] Uh it's just a lot of fun, and it's just it's uh I know they already have a big cult fan base and it and and well earned, but I think this will only elevate it.

[1:01:13] Charlie Murphy: I love it.

[1:01:13] Alex Brightman: Well, that's certainly not true of the show.

[1:01:14] If you're learn something from the show, you're doing it right, is what I think.

[1:01:17] Charlie Murphy: Oh, yeah.

[1:01:18] Alex Brightman: Um definitely and I'll I'll throw my last question to you, which is just any advice for those um young people out there who are trying to follow in your footsteps and maybe not be an exact replica of an Alex Brightman, but to to live an Alex Brightman-like life.

[1:01:31] Um, what advice would you give to those young people as they sort of pursue their their career?

[1:01:35] Alex Brightman: This goes back to the college thing.

[1:01:37] Um, because this and I I think it's good to wrap it up this way, is that college, you know, didn't work for me, but that does not mean it won't work for you.

[1:01:49] And all the learning you do is not the gospel.

[1:01:53] There are no true experts in theater.

[1:01:55] And so it's up to you to really be your own kind of sieve.

[1:01:59] You know, we've been talking about a lot, but to see what works for you.

[1:02:01] Because just because something really works for somebody, um, it may not even close to work for you.

[1:02:07] So it is about kind of this tool belt that you hear about in in college a lot, and just making sure that it looks like yours and being okay that you don't have the thing the other person has.

[1:02:19] But the other thing about college, the advice that I have that is vital, and especially as someone who dropped out of college, I think this is important coming from me, is that one of the things I think I would have gained more of were I to have stayed and done better, is college is a good place not only to learn, but to get this backbone group of friends that will lift you up when you are in bad places because theater is no guarantee.

[1:02:46] And theater is a hobby that turns into a passion and passions can break your heart.

[1:02:53] Hobbies is easy.

[1:02:54] You're in community theater, yeah, where it's a weekend of shows.

[1:02:57] When you decide that you're gonna go to college and invest in yourself as an artist, it's risky and it's heartbreaking.

[1:03:04] So when you go to college, yes, learn, yes, all that, but be with people, encourage people, be loving, learn how to be a good friend.

[1:03:14] Because later that pays off in dividends if you just are lonely and you want to talk to somebody about not booking something.

[1:03:21] It just makes it easier when you're not alone.

[1:03:23] And so I had to kind of like scrounge together some friends after those two years that I didn't have in college.

[1:03:29] Um, and boy, am I glad I did, but I think that college is such a good place to find those friends.

[1:03:35] So don't waste that part of it.

[1:03:37] Find time to make friends.

[1:03:39] Charlie Murphy: So well said.

[1:03:40] And you know something we talk about a lot of like with our alumni of like find your community, whether it's from college, whether it's how however you do it, but you cannot survive in this industry without a community.

[1:03:48] You don't act alone, you don't audition alone, you do almost nothing alone in this business.

[1:03:53] And so to think that you do is crazy.

[1:03:55] Alex Brightman: So the more people, wonderful, honest people that you surround yourself with, I think it's just a better go, even if it doesn't go well.

[1:04:02] Charlie Murphy: Yep.

[1:04:02] Alex Brightman: And once you have a child, you don't go to the bathroom alone anymore, Alex.

[1:04:05] Charlie Murphy: I'm telling you, nothing.

[1:04:06] Alex Brightman: I mean, I just have this guy.

[1:04:08] Charlie Murphy: I just I just have uh yes.

[1:04:10] Alex Brightman: For the listeners.

[1:04:12] Charlie Murphy: This is a beautiful dog curled.

[1:04:14] Alex Brightman: He couldn't care less about this game in the same way that Alex doesn't didn't care, also completely.

[1:04:22] Charlie Murphy: Not me peeing, him peeing.

[1:04:25] Alex Brightman: Specifically Alex peeing.

[1:04:27] Charlie Murphy: I can't think of a better place to end the show.

[1:04:30] Um, Alex, thanks so much for the time today.

[1:04:32] This was such a pleasure, man.

[1:04:39] Alex Brightman: Heck, yeah, I hope you enjoy that conversation with Alex.

[1:04:42] Charlie Murphy: I know you were all shocked.

[1:04:44] Shocked, I say, that I'm not expanding that sports and taking care of yourself metaphor, right?

[1:04:50] I was like on a roll, I probably got about another 10 minutes of all the different basketball players he could have been.

[1:04:55] I'm just not gonna do it.

[1:04:56] I'm gonna I'm gonna keep you on your toes.

[1:04:57] But of course, you're not gonna be too surprised that I am gonna talk more about process.

[1:05:03] Do I ever talk about anything else?

[1:05:04] In that I really enjoyed the way Alex talked through his trial and error of his process.

[1:05:10] Obviously, everyone's process is their own, both if you're looking at your college pieces, working on auditions, or developing a role.

[1:05:16] But especially when you're talking about comedy, there's something really cool about the way Alex discusses, and I think really truthfully lives out the kind of throwing paint against the wall approach.

[1:05:26] It isn't for everyone, and I think depending on what show it is or what it calls for, there is something sometimes to having some discernment as you get more advanced.

[1:05:35] Like I remember in school being really annoyed by some actors who would always be like stubbornly making quote unquote wrong choices as like this intellectual exercise and was like slowing up their scene partners.

[1:05:45] But I would say, for those of you who think that the way Alex approaches things is a bit terrifying, or he used the word dangerous, there's almost certainly something you could take from it in a good way.

[1:05:56] I mean, are you never trying anything that feels wrong in your exploration of the material?

[1:06:01] It's worth a try.

[1:06:02] Not that the point, of course, is to do something quote unquote wrong.

[1:06:05] And of course, there's no such thing as right and wrong in subjective art, right?

[1:06:08] But that in holding on to what you are certain is quote unquote right, you are likely limiting yourself to the fullness of all the possibilities that are in your pieces or that are in your roles.

[1:06:18] You don't have to necessarily be throwing yourself on the ground for all your bits, like Alex talks about, but in pushing your comfort zone, you're likely gonna discover some interesting possibilities.

[1:06:26] Or as Alex says, you'll at least have learned some things that the piece is not.

[1:06:30] And that's a kind of cool discovery as well.

[1:06:31] To be like, cool, I spent I went all the way down that avenue and none of that works.

[1:06:35] Moving on, I'm gonna try a different avenues.

[1:06:37] On the flip side, I really like his advice of trying to trust that first instinct and keep the gold, right?

[1:06:43] To hold on to what works well when you know you have something.

[1:06:46] All of this experimenting and playing and discovery, it's all the stuff that we always are talking about.

[1:06:51] It becomes a bit meaningless if in all of your rehearsals you were truly to completely erase the etch a sketch each time and hold on to absolutely nothing that had happened in all the previous times, right?

[1:07:01] You want to be able to build without locking things in, but to be able to build.

[1:07:06] And I think the ability to truthfully do something that works again and still make it like new is such an impressive skill, and that itself really takes practice.

[1:07:16] So often, the note I'm giving young actors at this particular point in the process, you know, after they've been working on the material for three months or for a year, however long it's been, is to try to re-infuse the verisimilitude of a human being talking to another human being to check back in with that first instinct, that base level humanity of how it read right off the page.

[1:07:37] You deepen the work, you explore it, and you stretch the limits of what's there.

[1:07:41] And then so often the next step in needing that dough is just to simplify it, to add back in those quotidian obstacles of, you know, what would it be like if I were really saying this to my overbearing mother?

[1:07:52] Or how would I actually pursue this tactic if I were talking to my actual friend who I actually know and who I think is kind of cute, right?

[1:07:59] What would that actually do to me if I was just simply communicating?

[1:08:02] So often that trust in the simplicity and the work that you've done and in that first instinct is letting the piece be heard like it's the first time.

[1:08:11] That is the final unlock that you're gonna keep coming back to and coming back to as you deepen the work, and then you're gonna go, okay, but just distrust the work and just say it and just talk to this person.

[1:08:22] Charlie Murphy: Well, that's it.

[1:08:23] Another episode of Mapping the College Audition, produced by Meghan Cordier.

[1:08:27] Please like and subscribe us where you know you're supposed to.

[1:08:29] It's not too late for those belated wedding gift rating and reviews.

[1:08:33] We'll still accept them even after the day itself.

[1:08:36] Check us out at mtca.nyc uh if you want more information on MTCA or on all of our social platforms.

[1:08:43] Charlie Murphy: To my young artists out there mapping their journeys.

[1:08:46] What kind of game show host do you think I am?

[1:08:49] Alex Brightman: You are the weakest link.

[1:08:51] Charlie Murphy: Goodbye.