This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Michelle Simone Miller: Welcome to Mentors on the Mic Podcast.

[0:13] Michelle Simone Miller: I'm your host, Michelle Simone Miller, and I'm so thrilled to share with you this very special episode for Mentors on the Mic podcast. This is a round table for the Tribeca Film Festival, specifically covering their shorts film block. We did two of these round tables. This particular episode features the most amount of people that has ever been on an episode of Mentors on the Mic in the five years that I've been doing this. So it was a lot to do, a lot to fit in a studio, but it was so much fun. We were lucky to get all the filmmakers from the competitive edge panel, which is all centered on competition, on different sports, various cultures. It's just incredible and languages. So here are the filmmakers featured in the competitive edge panel.

We have Isabel Lamers from Kaya. We have Jordan Britt for Freestyle. We have Misha Calvert from Fault. We have Ran Ran Wang from I Think About Killing You. We have Maria Sofia Hernandez from Lucia Delucia, and then we have co-filmmakers, co-directors, Desirée Mwepu and Jean-Luc Mwepu from Ultimatum. I think Desirée was the only one who didn't introduce herself in the episode, so just keep that in mind when you're listening. And yeah, this is a really, really fantastic, wonderful interview. I'm so excited to share it with you. And this particular episode and all the Tribeca cut-up coverage is sponsored by Studio Pilates South Slope and Studio Pilates Cobble Hill. And also a special shout out and thank you to Welcome to Timesquare.com, the billboard where you can be a star for the day. Now let's get into it.

[1:58] Michelle Simone Miller: Hi, this is Michelle Simone Miller with Mentors on the Mic Podcast. I am so excited to be here with the filmmakers of the competitive edge film block for Tribeca Festival for the 25th anniversary of Tribeca Festival. Welcome, guys. Thank you so much for being here.

[2:12] Filmmakers: Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here.

[2:15] Michelle Simone Miller: This is a really special block. I was telling them every film is so strong. They describe the competitive edge block as these narrative shorts pack a punch as sports and performance take center stage. It is so much more than that. We are going to unpack that. These shorts premiered on Thursday, June 4th, and there are two more times to see it. I'm going to say this at the end as well, because I want people to go, and this will be out before. So Thursday, June 11th, 5:30 at the Shorts Theater at Spring Studios, and Saturday, June 13th at 2:30 at AMC 19th Street. This episode is also brought to you by Welcome to Timesquare.com. So thank you to them. All right, we'll start. I'm gonna have everyone, just because in the sake of interview, but people are also listening to this. If you could introduce yourself and just say a little bit about your film. We're gonna start with you, Jordan.

[3:02] Jordan Britt: Hi. Um, my name's Jordan, and I just recently graduated from NYU film this past year, and Freestyle is my senior thesis film. And it is about three competitive figure skaters during one early morning practice session.

[3:17] Michelle Simone Miller: Isn't it amazing that we all have these log lines that you have just like embedded? It works so well for this type of thing. Excellent. Thank you so much, Jordan.

[3:23] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Hi, my name is Jean-Luc, and I am one of the directors of Ultimatum and as well as a scriptwriter and DOP. Yeah, cinematographer on the project. And yeah, it's a film with my lovely sister by my son as a main actor, so you can introduce the film if you want to.

[3:50] Desirée Mwepu: Yeah, so um yeah, I'm also one of the directors and scriptwriters on the short film Ultimatum, and it's a short film about two black girls doing auditions for the royal ballet school in Sweden.

[4:07] Isabel Lamers: Hi, I'm Isabel Lamers. I'm the director, writer, producer, and lead in my film called Kaya. Um, it's a film about mixed race identity and belonging. It's about half Filipina Nia, who tries to join a Filipino martial arts team to basically prove that she's Filipino enough.

[4:28] Maria Sofia Hernandez: I'm Maria Sofia, and my film is La Lucha de Lucia. I am the writer and director, and it's about a teenage girl who's a wrestler, and she's finding out herself in the lucha libre world.

[4:41] Ran Ran Wang: Um, my name is Ran Ran. I'm the writer and director of I Think About Killing You, which follows the captain of a competitive D1 crew team who has these very violent fantasies of killing her coach. Um, and when the abuse goes too far, she has to decide whether or not to act on those fantasies.

[4:59] Misha Calvert: Hi, I'm Misha Calvert, and I'm the writer director of Fault, which is I don't have the log line really prepared. Uh, it's a tennis movie, and it's about two sisters, and one of them's a tennis star, and she's preparing for the US Open, and her older sister comes by the mansion for lunch, and she's kind of a washed-up loser and a drunk, and they have an afternoon and things go wrong in that afternoon.

[5:30] Michelle Simone Miller: Amazing, guys. I feel like I mean this is why I made the podcast. It's because I really can talk to each and every one of you and just be like, tell me about your film. Um, I really, really enjoyed this block, like I said. Um, Mentors on the Mic is a lot about learning from mentors, the whole process about filmmaking. So I just wanted to start with can you guys tell us a little bit about your experience before making this film? So have you done shorts before? I know you said that you this was your senior thesis. So what was your experience like that prepared you for making this particular short film?

[6:03] Jordan Britt: Um, well, I had made shorts in high school, and I also grew up figure skating my whole life. And so when I got to college, this was my second short film, the first one we shot on 16 and is still in post. And so really this was my first short going fully through um like pre-production, post and distribution.

[6:24] Michelle Simone Miller: Amazing. Yeah. That's incredible, really. I mean, especially I mean been I you I'm an actor as well, so I've done a lot of student films that like never get finished. So the fact that you have this in completion and it's in the festival. Congratulations. Congratulations to all of you, obviously.

[6:39] Filmmakers: Thank you.

[6:40] Michelle Simone Miller: Um, how about yourselves? What was your experience like prior to making this short film?

[6:44] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Yeah, for me, I've been making short films with my sister for about seven years now. And this was the I think it was our fifth short film that we worked on, but it was the first time working as collaborators in the project. So uh, like we've collaborated on projects before, but no one's like directing together, writing together, so it was a different process from the other ones, I would say.

[7:08] Desirée Mwepu: Yeah, exactly. So we've been making short films for yeah, almost seven years, and just been going into it to like together um in this process where like yeah, may mainly it's maybe Jean-Luc's project and his writing and his directing. But I'm always like uh yeah, like assistant directing and maybe reading the script like in like already early drafts, and we've been like working together like that. Or if uh when I've done a short film, it's been uh the uh the other way around. But this time it was really like from the beginning, we were just like almost like 50-50 on everything, just like um doing it together, and it's been really nice, but it's been almost like the same, I feel like before. But uh yeah, it's been it's been really fun to yeah, to work together.

[7:56] Michelle Simone Miller: Amazing. That's incredible teamwork that you're able to, especially like with my sister, I would not be able to do it. I love her, and we're really good friends. Love you, Danielle, but like it's not easy.

[8:06] Isabel Lamers: Yeah, I wish I had that. Um Kaya's my debut, so I was an actor first, uh, started writing, and then I just grew tired of waiting. Um, and there's like a lot of gatekeeping, right? So I was just like, I'm gonna make it. And yeah, so I just I um I I don't know what I profited of. I for sure acting experience helped, but I don't think it prepares you for directing like the craft is insane. So I have you know tipped my hats to all of you. Um I I was free-falling to be fair.

[8:39] Michelle Simone Miller: Listen, I mean debut the film in Tribeca. Free fall right into the tribe stage. I'm super honored to be here. It's amazing.

[8:49] Isabel Lamers: No, it's fantastic.

[8:51] Misha Calvert: Yes, this is also my first short film.

[8:54] Isabel Lamers: Look at you guys. I love.

[8:57] Misha Calvert: I'm also an actress, and I studied um also at NYU actually, but up my program was you kind of come up, it's individualized study. So I really like theater and I did acting and uh writing and directing. So I had directed some theater in college. But then I started to write this piece. Actually, it's a short play, and I was like, wait a second, like this is so cool. I wanna I want to see the characters like on camera as well. And I wrote it, and then I was gonna give it to somebody else to direct it, and then I was like, wait a second, like I only wrote it because I saw it in my head, and that's kind of how my head works, I'd say, where it's like, which I think came more naturally than acting, where I was like, oh, these are all the things that I like to do together.

And I had work on set a lot, like in commercials as production or like anything, but I always was paying a lot of attention. So I feel like that was my school, or like and NYU sets with other people doing protection design or whatever. So I think when it came together, it was also like remembering all the things that I had learned, but also with the actors thinking about what had helped me. And like because um the actress is a wrestler. She it was her first time acting as well. So that was a lot of like the fun part of doing it for the first time, like the community that was around it.

[10:15] Michelle Simone Miller: Awesome. Great.

[10:19] Misha Calvert: Yeah, um, this is my second ever short film. Um, my second time directing. I did not go to film school, and I self-funded and independently made my first short. And um, this is something that was supported and funded by a nonprofit 501 Save 3 called Ride Back Rise, which is a mid-career BIPOC accelerator. Um, and um this is the first time I've received this amount of institutional support to make something. And like they are just such an incredible program. They gave me so many resources, so much help, and I think you can really see that on the screen. And so I've been incredibly incredibly lucky to receive so much help to make this film. And I, you know, I hope that I made them proud.

[11:02] Michelle Simone Miller: I'm sure. I'm sure. Not just because I've seen the short, but also because it's in the festival. I mean, thank you guys. And shout out to shout out to Rise.

[11:11] Filmmakers: Yes.

[11:12] Michelle Simone Miller: Shout out to them. And it's good for people to know about all these resources that are available.

[11:15] Isabel Lamers: Yes, absolutely. Um, for the BIPOC people at this table, every single one of you actually should apply to this program. Um and let me know if you have questions about it because like it really did like change my life.

[11:25] Michelle Simone Miller: So and Misha?

[11:28] Misha Calvert: Still sore from our soccer tournament.

[11:30] Michelle Simone Miller: I've heard, I've heard this there's a soccer tournament for Tribeca Filmmakers.

[11:34] Misha Calvert: And there were four teams and they tied.

[11:36] Michelle Simone Miller: Four times.

[11:37] Misha Calvert: So it was a four-way tie. I was like, this seems I don't appreciate that.

[11:41] Michelle Simone Miller: And I'm sure you don't. At the competitive edge block, I feel like it's a good idea. We were so competitive about it. And I'm like, a tie.

[11:49] Misha Calvert: I have made a dozen shorts in five short form series.

[11:55] Michelle Simone Miller: Amazing, dude. Well, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important for people listening and watching to be able to understand that there are different experience levels that go into making this, and it's not just everyone has a ton of experience. Sometimes it is your debut, and it's possible for people who are applying. I think there's a common conception that like misconception that people need to have tons of experience in order to get into this festival, or and or like celebrities in their shorts and their features. So I I want to also make sure that people understand that.

[12:27] Michelle Simone Miller: Um, for a lot of your shorts, there were a lot of maybe not Ultimatum, but there are a lot of um there was a relationship between um an athlete and a coach. And I wanted to explore that because it came up in so many of your shorts. So I wanna um just ask you guys the for the for the shorts that had that relationship that was really tumultuous or challenging with a coach, where did that come from? Why was that so important for you guys in this type of landscape to to make a short about?

[12:53] Misha Calvert: I can start.

[12:54] Misha Calvert: Yeah, please. So Fault is actually based on a true story, unfortunately. It's a very dramatic film, um in the end. But it's the Gigi, the older sister, she came to me with the story, unfortunately about her stepdad and some stuff that he did that is illegal. And there's a so there's an active criminal investigation with this guy, and she's like, I want to make a movie about this, and about how when she went to her sister to try and talk about it, her sister's like, nah, that didn't happen. Um, and just that weird relationship of not being believed by somebody who's so close to you. So I was like, okay, let's make this, but let's set it different, slightly different circumstances. So there was no tennis.

I was like, let's do tennis. You know, interesting visuals and terminology because Fault is also used in tennis. And single player combative relationship. And uh the parental relationship of coach to player, I'm just like, duh, right? It's it's that kind of straight down um relationship a lot of the time. So it just was a very easy translation.

[14:15] Michelle Simone Miller: I appreciate that. I mean, the the actor specifically in your film, like the raw anger and pain was really felt. Um, you did such a great job, these actors.

[14:24] Ran Ran Wang: Yeah, um, I I have to say I really appreciate being in this block with all these amazing filmmakers because it really feels like our films are in conversation with each other and like um our films played back to back, and it was really amazing because you really got to see the difference between what it looked like to have that abusive relationship with a male coach and you know, obviously different circumstances, and then um in my short, a female coach. And um, you know, I've been really lucky in my life to have incredible female mentors who have really made a difference in my career. And I've also been unlucky enough to have some female mentors who like um, you know, like really disappointed me.

Um, and I think like it it's really tough when you receive kind of like bad treatment from a woman who's in a position of power above you because they're meant to understand more than anyone what you're going through, right? And I think in this industry, you know, the entertainment industry, this actually happens a lot. Like a lot of our older female peers were very unlucky and came up as the only woman in the room. And I think like there's a lot of aspirations to like, you know, pass down and be mentors to a younger generation, but it's hard for them to envision treating women different than the way that they were themselves treated. And so I really wanted to talk about that in this short and to kind of like give a window into like how different and how psychologically abusive sometimes this kind of stuff can be when it's uniquely a female-to-female relationship.

And so I'm just you know, really happy that we got to tell the story this way. And it was actually originally a male coach, and I was like, you know, I really just feel a lot more feelings about it being a woman. And so I I was really glad to do that. And um I thought it was really, really special that our films could be in conversation that way.

[16:15] Isabel Lamers: She made such a good point though. She's like, if I were a man, would you Oh absolutely what do you think? Well, I think like I think that's a thing that's like really revealing about the character, and like it makes you really pity her because it's but in some way you're also like, damn, she's kind of right, you know? And then you're like, you kind of have a point. And it's just such a sad moment because it really reveals like a difference between that the coaches um, like what she sees the problem to be in this situation and what her athlete thinks is the problem in the situation, right? Like the coach is like, the problem in this situation is that I'm not a man. And for the athlete, she's like, the problem in this situation is that you're hurting me.

And so like it really reveals in that conversation that they're completely unable to bridge the difference between where they are. And I I hope you like, you know, are scared of her, but also like kind of pity her.

[17:07] Misha Calvert: A little empathetic, yeah. I felt that way. Yeah, because you can imagine that this coach and all of our coaches were athletes, right? Like they also received, you know, mentorship and like were driven to be better by someone else. And so it really is kind of like that cycle of abuse. And I hope that that's like, you know, a character by which you see like she was once like the very girls that she's, you know, abusing now, and um, she didn't have a person like Danny to like advocate for her or protect her. And maybe if she had, things would have been different.

[17:39] Jordan Britt: Yeah, and it and it worked for her in her case, right? The coach in your particular short went to the Olympics. So for her, you know, she might have hated the abuse that she endured, but she also maybe felt like we do have to acknowledge that you know often being pushed does make you better. And you're like, but is it worth it? But is it worth the cost? And like, is that the only way to be better? And like I think like our all of our films have really interesting kind of POVs about that question.

[18:01] Filmmakers: 100%.

[18:02] Ran Ran Wang: Anyone else find out?

[18:04] Misha Calvert: Yeah, I just want to, I mean, I just want to follow that one because I think a dynamic is similar with our coach, because like martial arts is such a male dominated, you know, field. So if a woman makes it to a higher level, sometimes it can turn in a way of like, I worked so hard to get here. You have to show that you can do this, you know, before I even give you any chance, because you're not getting any free pass just because you're a woman. So that's kind of like a thing of like I think it's a similar experience of like you went there going the hard way, so you don't want to see someone cheating it out or giving a leg up. It's like a crab mentality thing. Um, but at the same time, you understand the woman, and it's that's why it's so conflicted, because you're like, yeah, I kind of get it.

So that that was for me based on personal. I always say personal moments because it's not the whole story as such is not a real story, but it's like occasional things, like this gatekeeping happened to me from female mentors before and the martial arts world, obviously.

[19:04] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Yeah. Sorry. I think in a way that's sort of something that I was thinking about where it was like family legacy, like the father is the coach, and then the grandpa was also, so they're like maybe not telling her, like, you can't learn how to do this. She's already in the middle, like layer it up, but she's like, but this is not the way I want to do it. And I was really interested in like how do we follow tradition and like respect it because she's saying, like, I respect you, you've taught me what I need, but now I also know what I want. So in a way, it's like also like how do we feel supported? But then it's maybe like you don't know if that's how it's gonna work out for you.

[19:42] Desirée Mwepu: Well, but that's actually something I really love about your two shorts is that you did have characters that had really supportive coaches. Yeah, like it was like I'm supporting you, but maybe she's like, but you're not supporting me the way I want to, and I think that was a really interesting thing for me. And then they have like the people that are choosing who fights who, which is like another like well, like a male figure that's like doing something like somebody's else telling them. So how do you fight that? And it's like the wrestling of that part, not only like on the ring, but sometimes it's like how you're presenting yourself, what opportunities you're getting, and if it's not there, how are you fighting to get them? Amazing.

[20:17] Misha Calvert: Do you want to add to that?

[20:20] Jordan Britt: Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, I think in freestyle in particular, like the coach is more of like a reflection of an institutionalized sort of culture in aesthetic sports, and I think I was very conscious of wanting to focus on the girls' relationships rather than just the coach's sort of exertion of that force, even though she is tough in the short. Um, the relationship is really about like what's passed down, like from the coach from Adriana, who's 18, to Kara, who's 16, to Sophia, who's 14, and really about Sophia stepping into the role of what the coach is asking of her ultimately, um, and choosing to like partake in this culture to succeed. Um, and kind of usurping the two older girls in the process.

[21:10] Misha Calvert: I know. Well, what I wanna also ask about creating shorts that's really, really challenging is you have to create a very strong beginning beginning, middle and end, as well as a very strong perspective and intention as to what you want to like almost like a through line that has to be important enough to be like this is going to take us through the whole thing. And you're doing it I mean all your shorts are less than 15 minutes if I write um we also have an 11 minute film.

[21:35] Isabel Lamers: Which one was the 11 minute film?

[21:37] Misha Calvert: I mean incredibly difficult to do. I think people are maybe not quite aware of of how difficult it is to have this beginning, middle and end to have a very strong voice and have it in such a short amount of time. I just wanted you guys to just touch on that maybe starting with um Desiree and and uh Jean-Luc because there's there's something really I think beautiful in seeing especially like for you guys I really felt like there was a really strong storyboard where there were these images of like you got there was a lot of like this image is going to say a lot about what your through line is, what the main topic is and I said I felt like the it was very sort of powerful in its visual meaning, which I'm also gonna ask a question about.

But can you talk a little bit about creating a beginning middle and end with a very strong vo like intention mind for how the plot line of what this is going to be of how you want people to leave this film with. Does that make sense? I feel like there was a question in there.

[22:30] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Okay good yeah no it was it was really it's really nice that you say that because I think both me and Jean Luc going into this we have like done uh our short films before we have done short films that are like more um uh traditional with like um yeah a beginning, middle, and end, but we have also like explored a lot and done like a lot of like playing with time and like using visuals to like yeah, doing like poetic uh explorations and stuff too. And for this film, we just wanted to like really be like, okay, what can we do with what we what we know that we like with like visuals and uh poesy and the poetry and and whatnot, and just like make a very like um clear uh film with like yeah, a clear beginning, middle, and end, and like also have um have it so that the audience understands the film and that it doesn't have to be like okay, I like the visual so much, and it's like it feels so really visuals for beautiful.

What does this mean? Like we just wanted it to be like okay, like uh the visuals and and the things surrounding the film can speak also, but like the story is just like easy to take in. And uh and we had that like in mind throughout writing and everything, and we we both love writing so much, but this time we we really were like, okay, we know the story when we start to write.

[24:01] Desirée Mwepu: Well, you guys really took like a pauses, like I I can't explain it otherwise, but it's almost like you you indulged each each picture was like an indulging of like we're gonna take a moment for you guys to just feel this because this moment is indicative of what I want to tell you in this short film. So, like, first of all, that takes a lot because again, it's all these films are under 15 minutes. So, how did you take that? I mean, I know you've done this so many times before, but how did you guys give yourself permission to go? I'm gonna just ha have everyone like look at this moment before they even talk, like understand the visual of of you know, the uh the ballerina with like it was one black ballerina in front of like a bunch of white girls right around her, and that's there's the visual of that is just so beautiful and meaningful. So, how did you guys decide to take those moments, just pause and go, okay, here's the visual I want you guys to see, and then go into dialogue.

[24:56] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Yeah, I felt like uh yeah, since working as a cinematographer on the project as well, we had the opportunity to just discuss these ideas that we had, like from the whole setting being very royal and uh like uh you know, there's this perfect feeling of like everything needs to be aligned, just ballet as an art form in itself is just very like strict and regulated, and we wanted the audience to be able to feel that as well throughout the short film. So rushing through it makes you also not maybe see everything as clear. So we wanted definitely to have those moments in the movie we felt like we could just stay here for a while, establish a feeling, and then have that feeling with us when we go into the next scene.

And uh doing that was uh also a tough process because like always you have very few minutes that you need to take very good use of and in this. Definitely you need to kill a lot of dollings and uh doing that, we sometimes have to take tough choices, but all in all, being able to discuss through it and uh just like use a lot of people in our surrounding as well, just to watch the movie with them because I always feel like when watching the movie with someone else, I can see that okay, I just get a better feeling of like, is this good? Is this bad? Can I stay here? Can I like, do I want to rush it? Like, because sometimes when you just sit by yourself or together like this, we watch it so many times that your mind has. You just go dull, you just watch it and it it doesn't feel anything, but just sitting next to someone, it makes you like feel the image in a different way.

[26:39] Desirée Mwepu: I would say good tip.

[26:42] Jordan Britt: Do you find that when you're watching it with people, like if you um it's gonna sound weird, if you open your body, like you relax your energy, you can actually see it through their eyes.

[26:53] Misha Calvert: I think for me it was like, yeah, like you would see where people were confused or where they were excited, and you're like, okay, why is there confusion? Or why is there excitement? And like then how it like is it is this a right place for it to be sad or not? But then people can see it in so many ways that you're not expecting, no.

[27:10] Ran Ran Wang: Yeah, I meant more like psychic mind meld, but yes.

[27:15] Desirée Mwepu: Do you do you do this? Or uh for those of you who who show this to other people, do you mean like on set while filming or the edit like once it's in post groups, focus groups?

[27:25] Jordan Britt: I mean editing, like it could be anybody, it could be my best friend, it could be a colleague or something, just like being like, okay, okay, you just sit by my side and watch the movie because I know that then I'm sharp and I feel what they're feeling. Like you said it away, you can feel the confusion or you can feel the excitement, and that just give you a reference point of what the image feels to someone that has no like previous knowledge of the story of anything.

[27:49] Misha Calvert: Yeah. And I prefer to say that also that when I put someone to watch this, or when we bring friends over, we we don't say anything, we just put on the movie and then let's do it. I don't know what you just watch them.

[28:02] Desirée Mwepu: You're like, you watch the film, I'm just gonna watch you.

[28:05] Misha Calvert: Because you know it so well that you don't really need to like watch what they're watching, you're like, and this is the moment, got it. Let me take that note.

[28:10] Jordan Britt: I mean, I would say, like, I'm so super critical sometimes that when people give feedback, I'm like, yeah, I I knew that I was thinking about that. But in a way, like where you're like, yes, because like you know the things that aren't great. I mean, for me, I know that there's so many things that weren't great that I wish I had done differently, but I also at some point couldn't change. So it's not like I'm not being arrogant, I'm just like it's sometimes I feel like uh we we are self-critical of our work, and it like we have to at some point, I and that's I think what we all did is like choose the things that we like and we decided this is gonna be it.

[28:50] Isabel Lamers: Yeah, that's a hard one for artists, especially first of all, especially for you because you are in it. So over, yeah, that's the thing. Right. So you're seeing your face as an actor, you're going, I don't want that shot because of X, Y, and Z reasons, and then they're like, and then filmmaker hat on. Like I need that angle to be that way, and yeah. It's a lot of tough choices. But I mean, what I was learning in that process was like, because I know nothing, right? So it's even worse that I don't know how to decide these things. Where I was like, okay, there's this thing called my gut. I was gonna say, like, that's how I like you know, you know, you actually know. That was the process for me.

It was like, oh, we I we are allowed to listen. That's probably what makes us artists. Is where I was like, oh, I had this penny drop moment. I know it might sound weird for you, but where you guys are like I was like, oh directing is that we decide feeling, yeah. Like, and then I think that later, I mean, develops into your voice, right? That develops into like what makes my film different from other films, right? What's my style? Like, what's the thing that's gonna? I mean, I'm sure in in in many of you who've done more than one film, there might be like even a theme or something that you're like, this is really what I love to discuss and this is my style and this is how I do it and some things will change and some things especially if they're coming from your gut will stay I think the same did you want to add something to that?

[30:10] Misha Calvert: No, I mean it's true. I mean oftentimes I think people expect filmmakers to jump from one thing to another thing in style or genre and topic just because you know they'll be like oh they're making a movie about XYZ again just because of the type of you know resources that go into a production versus when like you know studio artists is working on a series they expect them to do like a whole collection of works that revolve around the same you know colors and palettes and so I think we sort of all just like have our palettes and it's okay to like continually like explore that over time.

[30:44] Michelle Simone Miller: So well said I wanted to also ask you guys about tips that you give to other filmmakers right even especially also in in in your case actor filmmakers because a couple of you are also actors um can you guys give any tips to like what works for you what doesn't I mean I know that like if you know for for those who are creatives I feel like creating a short or creating any film um is similar to a painting right you can keep working on it for your entire life but you have to at some point call it right you have to some point go that's gonna be the finished thing and and I'm gonna be good with it because I that's where I'm ending the painting kind of thing. Can you guys give any tips for how to do that? And then also just how to how to make how to how to have something that's so important to you to to share with the world that you're like, I'm gonna do it.

[31:38] Desirée Mwepu: I think if you care about something about anything, there's always going to be somebody else that cares as well. And I think that was something that I was really scared about, where I was like, Why would anyone want to help me out or like donate money? Because I did a crowdfunding at first, and it was hard to find like grants because I had never done anything before, which also goes to if you don't have anything, there's always gonna be a way. And to remember that if you care about it, you can find the next person and the next person like the people that don't care, or like they don't care. Bye. Like, I think like that was something really strong, and I was talking about it as well with him.

That it's it's like sometimes things take time, like and people will give you advice, and then you also have to listen to what's right for you. Like, I think it's great to do a lot of small things, but for me, that wasn't the way that that was going. I knew it was gonna take time. It has a lot of choreography, a big space, so then I had to go with that. I'm like, well, I don't have anything else to do right now that I want, so why not do the big thing? And I think it's like for everyone's gonna look different, so then just listen to what you want to be doing right then, and and follow through. I think following through is like one of the biggest parts. Like you said, nobody else sometimes we don't finish them, and it's like at least you know what you want to do different next time if you don't like that one.

[32:56] Jordan Britt: Yeah, I don't know. Going off of that, I think you will, as you're building this project, and this goes for anyone, whether it's a theatrical piece or a dance piece or a painting, as you're creating something tangible in the world, you're also recreating yourself, especially if it's the first time you're doing it and you're like terrified, uh set sometimes. Um, but you're you are becoming a new version of yourself, and I think that that is one of the most valuable pieces of it. Yeah, you're presenting something to the world that may change lives or minds or entertain people, but you are like I don't know, like the the crab shedding its snake. Oh a bunch of shedded animals. You're shedding something, you're becoming something else. And that you learn about yourself in that process and you learn what you're capable of, which is a really cool process.

[33:53] Misha Calvert: I think my most practical piece of advice or tip for filmmakers who are embarking on making a short is that like, you know, everyone says it, you're not gonna fix it in post. And what I mean by this is that like I think like I think 90% of directing happens in prep. And like 90% of the problems you have in post are actually problems with your script. Oh yeah. And like if you if your character doesn't arc on the page, they're not gonna arc in post. And so like I really, really encourage people, like it's so like you know, glamorous to be like, I'm shooting, look at these big cameras, look at this crew that's all here. Almost all of your job is happening before you ever step foot on a set. And so really take your time there, really focus, and don't go just because you're excited.

Your script has to be there because you're not gonna find it in post, it's not gonna show up. You're not gonna create footage from thin air, right? And like you're not gonna make emotions that aren't that aren't on the page. And so um that is my biggest advice. Just like don't go unless you're ready. Pre is free.

[34:56] Isabel Lamers: Did you guys all leave feeling like you had enough coverage in post? Was there ever I added a definition at the start of the film because I was like, I don't think I can explain it so well with my edit anymore. Like it wasn't that, but it was like this is like such a big term that they talk about. And sometimes people don't know about it. But it was like, but that's like how you have to like become creative of like, how is it? Well, just show them what it is. Like in a journey, it's like rulos, the good ones. Uh, I mean the bad ones, and then the good ones, and that's it. Like, now we get it. Like, we can enter the thing, but now then you have to get creative, like you did because I was like that. I was like, how do I show it no more?

[35:38] Ran Ran Wang: Yeah, yeah. I mean, just in my case with coverage and feeling like you had enough, like we were shooting in an ice skating rink, and the follow focus unit we were on didn't work through the rink. The first day, and so we lost a day of production and we had two days, and so we ended up we had to like rack our brains the night before we're like, how are we gonna shoot this film? Oh my gosh. And so we ended up shooting like this seven-page on ice scene. So all the on-ice coverage is shot as a winner for each of the girls, and we just shot at like theater following them, and we were like, we don't know if this is gonna work in a cut, but we kind of just have to have it for a cut. Um, and it turned out well, but like I think yeah, I mean, like you said, like everything you have to do is just like usually in prep, and then if you prep enough, like when those things happen, like you can just pivot for what makes sense and just get your shots or try to.

[36:33] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Anyone else want to answer the coverage question? Yeah, yeah, we had this we had a twice. Like, I we actually had everything legal. So we were fine. We've been doing this for seven years, Michelle. Why are you asking? Come on. No, but of course, like everybody's like a couple of people mentioned before, it's very tough going in because you have all this like these ideas, bunch of things you want to do, and you always have to narrow it down. When we shot the movie, I felt like we wanted a lot more days. We got maybe two thirds of the financing that we wanted to get our producer sales done, and we had to decide if we want to do it regardless, which we wanted. So yeah, thank you. But of course, we had to cut out a bunch of ideas that we liked, and uh then you know how set goes.

There's times where maybe something went very smooth, you have time to be a little creative. Then there's other times where like it could be logistics, it could be a bunch of things that just eats time from what you really want to do. So you have to take very strong decisions on set, and then you leave knowing that you would love that option or that thing to play with in post. But uh like you said, you have to be very well prepped so you know that okay, I know that I can work with this. And we knew that going into the post that we could work with this, but of course, like we would like two, three days more to just fill it all out so we can play and yeah.

[38:02] Misha Calvert: Sometimes having more is also like an issue, right? I mean, especially like I feel like with creatives, like too much of something or like lack of deadlines is also a thing. Did you guys have deadlines that you were like, I need to finish this by a certain time or no?

[38:15] Isabel Lamers: Yeah. I had deadlines because I was delivering to your people who funded the film. But also, you you asked earlier about like when do you feel confident to like put it out in the world? And like the truth is is that I think like it given perfect circumstances, filmmakers would probably tinker with something like until the end of time. And like at some point, I think you have to be like, there are like diminishing returns to me, like being like, Can we cut two frames off of this before we before we move to the next scene? And it's like, at some point you have to be like, yeah, man, I really just did my best there. And like accept that and be like, you know, we got what we got. And like this is the best version of what we could make.

And like I have to be satisfied with that. You know, and like and your option is to work on it forever or to like do what you meant to do, which is like make a film and like finish it and put it out there. So I think the the when you're a filmmaker, it's like, yeah, you just have to like recognize in yourself when it's like you just have to be like it these three hours to make it like like two point two percent better, just aren't worth it.

[39:24] Jordan Britt: Yeah, I would say, like, also I I'm a fan of fake deadlines, like that really helps me. Like, either if it's a writing comp or something that you can sign up for or like put it as a goal, or like in in our case, our working title was Filipino Karate Kid, and I knew they were making a new Karate Kid franchise. So it was kind of like in my mind going, like, I have to meet when they release so that we can release at the same time we didn't make it, but like in my mind, I think it worked because then and then we did a Kickstarter too, and that has a deadline, so that kind of kicked it all off.

[39:56] Desirée Mwepu: Yeah, I totally yeah. But I think one of the tips I wanted to say were that what with that I really learned was when um you actually don't have money and you just have the ideas and the script, you'll find really great people to work with, as opposed to when you're fully funded sometimes. It's harder to choose, like, especially if you're not connected and you have to vet everyone. People flock in more, and then it's it's kind of you feel blessed by having more people to work with, but you have to also find out who you want, like who is now there for the right reasons with you.

[40:28] Isabel Lamers: So yeah. So good. Yeah. And on tips, I also wanted to add that. Like, as you said, um, when you do something, you will find people you you care about. You will find people other people that care too. And I feel like for me and Jean-Luc also, when we've been doing like these short films that we talked about, like before this, we've also like majority of them we've funded by ourselves. So, like, I think one of them we got uh like the same funding, almost the same as funding as now, but it's also like we apply for a certain amount, and then when you get like two-thirds, and you're like, let's just go. And uh, I feel like that's just the tip, also that like just do it. Like, just try to just figure out how to do that.

[41:11] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Yeah, exactly. Like, I think that's like something where it's like everything's gonna be hard, not only finding the money, so you just have to decide that you're gonna do it.

[41:20] Isabel Lamers: Yeah, yeah, because I remember me and Jean-Luc like uh a couple of weeks before shooting Ultimatum, we had like gotten like we we could do like a pitch for uh Ultimatum to get like an amount that would help us so much uh for uh to do the film. And uh we went into that pitch knowing that we was gonna shoot two weeks after, like regardless. And then when we didn't win the pitch, we were just like, okay, but we're gonna shoot anyway.

[41:49] Desirée Mwepu: Exactly.

[41:52] Michelle Simone Miller: Um was there like a a specific image or something in mind that carried through in making those important decisions, right? Especially in post, but while filming as well, where you're like, there's something I need to make sure I hit, or like there's something there's there's a through line that like I think of it almost like a film as like a thesis for those of you who are still in school, where like there's always uh some sort of statement that every paragraph has to refer to, so almost every image, every moment has to go, okay, but we're gonna go back to this idea. Did you guys have an idea that you were like this is what is is guiding me through this whole thing, or was there an image in mind or a character that that kind of helped you edit and helped you film your project?

[42:36] Isabel Lamers: For me, it was like identity, like self-identity. Um the lead is Lucia La Guerrera, which means warrior, and I think that's what she's going through the whole film. So it was it was also a teenager, and I think as teenagers sometimes they're like, you don't know what you're doing, or like you'll learn, and I think like yes, we'll learn, but it's so dismissive to feel that way. So I think I went back to Lucia as the character, like, what is she going through? And I grew up in the border between Tijuana and San Diego, like going back and forth every day to go to school. So it was like I maybe I didn't see as much stamp.

[43:13] Ran Ran Wang: And now of like how you change yourself, and then I went to school here at NYU, and they were like, Welcome to the US, and I'm like, Well, I've been, and like I've been, and it was like, and it wasn't like a huge deal for me, but it was like also like, oh, people don't understand you, and why would they, right? Like, fine, sure, like whatever. But I think that was like a huge thing where I was like, How is she defending who she is? Like, not because people are saying, like, you're a good one, you're a bad one, whatever. It's like, what do you want to do? And I think while editing is like, how can we tell that story, like even on the ring? Because they're not talking that much, but saying, like, she's somebody that cares, she shows up for like the other wrestlers as well.

And there's like, well, well, we're doing this together, we're going against each other, but we want to do this, and that's really what led me through. And the writing as well, is like knowing your characters. And I think like how do you say, like, about pre-production and writing is like I think a lot of times I'd be like, Oh, I kind of want her to do this, and like she would guide me back to no, this is what it's like. I love that. So it's for you as like a word character, but also the character herself.

[44:15] Isabel Lamers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it also reminds me of what you're saying in Ultimatum, where there's that moment where they ask her, um, do you speak Swedish? She's like, Yes, yes. Um, like to do this in the case. Yeah, like do you have to do this in English? She's like, Oh, you speak Swedish English, yes, like here. Um my priority was the acting, and I think that's something that gets left behind a lot in independent film and short film, you know, especially if you're early career, it's so easy to get caught up in the 1.5 billion other things that you have to do and learn. Um, but if it's not if the performances are not believable, you have a problem most of the time, you have a big problem. So because of the stakes of fault, I was like, we've got to hit, like it just has to hit, and they have to be believable but not melodramatic and not like soap opera histrionic, but also what's happening is very heavy and very like a lifelong conflict.

[45:20] Jordan Britt: Yeah, so that was my priority in one of the through lines. Yeah, I think I mean, especially for you, you have to establish that relationship, but in a very short amount of time. Um, and I have images that for when I think of your movie, I think of like the sister's car kind of, and I think of them screaming. It was really powerful screaming, because you could just scream again and and not have it be like with the depth that it came with. Um anybody else for you guys? Any any through line, any image, any moment, any story, or like you know, especially I think in editing, you have to think to yourself like is this sort of getting to the heart of what I want to say?

[45:59] Desirée Mwepu: I mean, I think for me, like the heart of the film is maybe not one of the more memorable shots because there's so much going on thriller-wise in my short, but like the heart of the film really is the two girls in the bathroom holding hands under the bathroom stall. And like for me, like that's what it always goes back to. And like all this other stuff is like dressing, right? Like, like the psychological thriller element, like the whatever, it's like, but what it really goes back to is like who who's standing beside me and what am I gonna do for that community? And um, so that's that's that's one of the first images that I had in my mind. And you know, people were like, it's so amazing that you didn't do any coverage of like you know, the character inside the toilet.

And I'm like, you know, she's mine. You're gonna know, you know, you know what I mean? And and so it always comes back to that moment of comfort and of being like, you know, uh these are the people that the story is about, and like that really human moment is like what this whole film is for me.

[47:03] Misha Calvert: For me, I'd say like the um the story, the B plot, I guess, with the mother was kind of a a thing that came out more than I expected it to. Um, it kind of like ended up framing the whole fights and and the training. Um, well, I and I think I mean for me it was always mixed race identity and acceptance, but then your basic your origin story is where it all starts, right? If if your parents don't see you a certain way, the character ends up proving to her mother the whole time, like, hey, can you at least accept me? So I think that's why it ended up coming out more for me during mostly during the edit. I mean, it wasn't the script, but we cut down and cut down because for for Kaya, I really wanted it to be a really short proof of concept. So throwing the audience into the action and taking them out as well. So yeah.

[47:54] Michelle Simone Miller: Okay. Fortunately, I have to get to the last question because I need to get you guys out. Um, last question would be I think a lot of people um maybe don't understand the concept of short filmmaking, and that there are different things you can do with those shorts afterwards, or that people or directors might have different purposes in mind. Some people really want to continue doing shorts, some people want this to be proof of concept for something else. Um, what is your plan with your particular short? And what would be the ideal sort of um situation that comes from it? Like if you could meet someone here at the festival this week, or like, would you want funding for another short? Would you want a feature? Would you want to direct episodics after this? What is your goal after this? And we'll start with you, Jordan.

[48:39] Jordan Britt: Well, I think when I went into making freestyle, um it was purely an exercise in making a short film and like an exercise in directing as a craft. Um just because a thesis. It was my thesis. And um we just like had been given the advice like from the department, like, do not go into this trying to make a proof of concept because it's going to delight like whatever you're trying to do in the moment with this short and with your directing exercise. Like just focus on making this like the night of nights. Like this has to be the moment. Whatever it is in the short, it just has to be there, has to be a reason you're making this moment into something. And so after we did the short, I was like, wait, I really like this.

And so I wrote the feature and we are gonna take it to market. And so fingers crossed. Um but yeah, I mean I was like very stubborn through most of it in the edit and post. I was like, I'm never gonna talk about this again. This was my one figure skating thing. And then I was like, wait, no, it's not. I have more to say.

[49:46] Jean-Luc Mwepu: How about you guys, Jen Luke and Desiree?

[49:49] Jean-Luc Mwepu: Yeah. We we have the concept established for a future film as well. Going into this project, we really just wanted to make it since also like I feel like that's for everybody, but you have this audience that you have in mind that you also feel need the movie, and I just want them to be able to see it. So hopefully, of course, making a film, you want as many people as possible to see it, but also the right audience, many people in this establishments that don't feel like they belong, that also I want to s in a way we want to show them that you can be in this in an establishment that wants to put you apart, but still try to figure out the relationship to stay together and have the guts to, you know, resist all the forces that wants to divide you.

[50:39] Desirée Mwepu: Yeah, and uh both for like as you said, people that find themselves in this establishments and or certain establishments like this, and you know, uh trying to like um fight it, and also the people that are like contributing to uh the establishment being like uh upheld. And uh yeah, I think like we can relate to you when we first wanted to make this short. We just we were just like, yeah, let's make it short together, and like this is just gonna be the one thing. But like now, after seeing how uh it's been received so far, and like we're loving the project so much, yeah. We we um also established established a concept for a feature. So yeah, amazing. Fingers crossed for you guys.

[51:22] Misha Calvert: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I mentioned it, uh it is it was intended as a proof of concept. I wanted to like show the world, uh, show the characters, um, and yeah, make a women's action film. That was my I wanted more women in action, I wanted female-led action because RTP was a woman, so it was very important. Like the choreographer is a woman too. Um, so yeah, it was just important to be like, we can do this too, and change the industry a little bit with that.

[51:51] Ran Ran Wang: Wow. Oh, I feel like honestly, I would have never thought my first film would be action. Um if you told me when I was nine, like, oh yes, you're gonna direct the film, it's gonna be lucha libre. I would have been like, interesting. But it was like the most fun. And I always was like, it really reminded me also of the things that I liked as a child, like um, because I was like, oh, I never thought about it. I like did Taekwondo and all these things, and but um I digressed from like what you were asking. I wrote it as a short play for a class, and it was very different from what it is now. But then when I wanted to see it, it was also sort of like that, like it was a standalone thing, and people were like, You should really think about it as a proof of concept, but also not really like knowing exactly what that meant.

I just was like, I want to tell a story in 14 minutes, which you asked about later. Like that, so I ended up doing like in a day. Like it all takes place in a day, right? And like those sometimes like a day changes our lives. Yeah. And then like in a similar way, I'm like, wow, it's this world, and I know the characters, I know La Cuernola, I know La Mariposa, I know the dad, I know like every all of these different characters, and then you're like, oh, you can create a bigger world out of it. And I'm working on writing on the future in Waso because people are like, I want to see more. And I think it's part of it for me to also realize like the research part of it, like of about knowing, like I knew Luciello, like you grow up knowing that usually you end up going or you hear about it.

But the research and the people involved in it, I was like, wow, you are artists as well. Like you have your philosophy about your character, about why you do it, and then you're doing martial arts. Well, like it is like it's a big show, and I think people maybe are like, Oh, it's not real, but it's it's real, like throw yourself out of that ring. So that world is really what involved me in like maybe wanting to do something bigger for sure.

[53:40] Misha Calvert: Um for me, I have written and sold um a script to a studio, and everything that I write, all the futures I write, I'm like, yeah, I'd love to do this, but like for the most part, I'm like, I'm I'm never gonna stand in the way of something getting a chance to be made. But this one I was like, okay, this one's fine. Yeah, this one's mine. So um there is there's a future written. Um, my team is gonna go out with it soon. Um, I mean, you know, like I'll do it for as big as anyone will give me the money for. But you know, like we can do this for less than five, and um, I think we're really gonna give it a shot. And like, and like you know, if if we don't set it up, and uh you know, it can be really, really hard to be attached to uh a feature, especially um if you've only ever made shorts.

I think everyone at this table can like you know, like really feel that thing. And so, like, I I think we're gonna give it our best shot. And um, if at the end of the day they're like, well, we would want it if it wasn't you. Oh, which happens, you guys. That's how I sold my other scripts. I'd be like, well, all right, maybe I'll give this one too. But uh for now this one's mine. And um I'll do it for lesson five. So call me.

[54:53] Misha Calvert: And the goal with the fault short film is to get an Oscar nomination. Let's and uh, and I I think that it has everything it needs to do that. There's certainly more than just merit involved in that uh decision making. So, you know, there's money again, another raise for that Oscar campaign. And first of all, you have to become eligible. Um, but there's so many Oscar throw a freaking rock and there's an Oscar qualifier. Like it's not it's not that hard. And you just hit the right audience with the right message at the right time. Um spend a lot of money on festival submissions, etc. If someone wanted to make a feature, no one has come up to me and said, Hey, that'd make a great feature. I just saw it, bravo.

Uh sure, like give me a million bucks. But I have my own stories, my own IP. This belongs to Coco. Uh I have two features that I'm shopping right now, and I'm having great meetings at Tribeca about them. So fault, I mean, love it, but it's kind of currently acting as a proof of concept for me as a director to maybe do some other things for sure.

[56:03] Michelle Simone Miller: Excellent guys, I could talk to you for longer, but I can't. Um, thank you guys, each and every one of you, not only for being here today, but for your stories and for for getting it done. I think again, that's really challenging for a lot of people to be like, I I want to make something and then follow through with it. And all of you guys did, and all of you guys are at the festival. And I just want to say congratulations. I hope you have a wonderful uh week and meet the best people that can help you and your journey. Give us a call. Give us a call anyone out there on the phone. All right, thanks, guys.

[56:36] Michelle Simone Miller: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Mentors on the Mic. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend in entertainment you know would love it. Let me know what you learned or what stayed with you on our Instagram at mentors on the mic. I love reading your messages. Uh, you can also find me at Michelle Simone Miller on Instagram. On both accounts, I'll be sharing even more information about our mentors. Talk to someone about what you learned today who would really appreciate it and send them the episode. Also, if you love the show, please go ahead and leave us a rating and review on iTunes. It really makes a huge difference in growing this. It makes it easier for people to find our podcast. And I love reading your reviews. So thank you so much, and I'll see you next week.