This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Charlie Russell: Welcome to the Mischief Makers podcast. I am your host, Charlie Russell, and this is the Thespians edition. Welcome my guest, Natasha Rickman, the Artistic Director of the Mercury Theatre.

[0:32] Natasha Rickman: Hello.

[0:34] Charlie Russell: And we have Karen O'Neill, Chief Executive of Home Manchester.

[0:37] Karen O'Neill: Hello.

[0:38] Charlie Russell: I am very excited to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us. Firstly, you're here because you are producing with Mischief, Thespians, which is our first ever musical. Can I ask you, how did you first hear about the project, Natasha?

[0:53] Natasha Rickman: Well, I wonder, Karen, whether you'd like to start that, because it began life with Home and we then, through John and Ed, actually, then met Karen. But do you want to talk a little bit about it starting with you?

[1:05] Karen O'Neill: Oh, great. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so it originally started, we think the first conversations about Thespians started in 2021, actually, when Jonathan, who is local, grew up in Manchester area, was talking to the team at Home about wanting to do a musical, and he's got some idea about some Greek thing. And, you know, Home were like, oh, yeah, we're quite interested in that as well. And then that conversation just kind of kept going and going. And then I think it was in 2022 that it sort of got nailed down into a real idea, where Jonathan kind of came back to the team at Home and said, I think I know what it looks like. I'd like to try and put a script together. Ed's going to be on board to do the music.

And it just went from there, really. So Home commissioned Jonathan and Ed to write the script and, you know, pull the music together. And then it just kept going from that point. And I joined the organisation in 2023 and picked up the conversation with Jonathan going, I think this is great. Like, it's so much fun. I read the script. I listened to the music. And I was like, this is just fabulous. And what a great thing to do. Mischief came on board as well through Jonathan. And it was just like, yeah, we want to be part of it too. And then, brilliantly, Jonathan was like, oh, I know a venue that would love to do it. And that's where The Mercury came in as the co-producer. And it was just, it's been a dream process, really, from there onwards, hasn't it?

And I think it was really exciting for everyone involved to be in part of something that felt really fresh and new, but also felt really fun, really had that feeling of being Mischief about it. So for audiences, it feels like it connects. But also for us as venues, it's exciting because, you know, it's the first time for Home we're getting to work with Mischief.

[3:01] Natasha Rickman: Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, it's the first time ever. So for us, it's super exciting, because we've never had Mischief as a venue partner. So it's been great for us to kind of open those doors and kind of learn a bit more about how Mischief works and what it's about. But also, so many of the teams had seen the shows because they come to Manchester quite a lot. And it was like, there was this buzz of excitement of, oh my God, they're coming through our doors. And it was a real sense of like, this is a moment for us. And I think that's, we're kind of still in that, like, we're excited phase of it all. And we'd never met The Mercury before. That was really exciting as well, like to meet Tash and her team, and just to see what they're doing down here.

It's such a great thing to connect with venues that were so far apart. But actually, we're doing a lot of the same stuff. And we care about the same stories. And it was brilliant to come together as a team to make it happen.

[4:01] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, I mean, we've worked with The Mercury on Good Luck Studio, is that right?

[4:06] Karen O'Neill: That's right. So we co-produced on that. But it didn't rehearse here. And the thing that's been really special about Thespians, particularly special about it, among lots of other things, but is the fact that it's rehearsed here. And one of the things that we are really proud of as a building is our workshop teams, our wardrobe teams, and the fact that we make everything on site.

[4:25] Natasha Rickman: Right, because it's made, like, here. You've made the set, like, next door or whatever.

[4:29] Karen O'Neill: Yeah, we've got this incredible workshop team who are resident here, who have made it and our costume team have been there making these beautiful costumes, obviously, in collaboration with the creative team and very much collaborating with Mischief and Home through the process. But our amazing stage management team, who've been making all of these incredible props. So actually, having that process, because we are, you know, we have those facilities to make everything here as well, and seeing that all come to life and working in collaboration while we've been doing that has been really special.

[5:01] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, is it normal or common, I would say, for regional venues to work in collaboration?

[5:07] Karen O'Neill: Yeah, it's really common. It's an interest in collaboration because Home's not really a theatre, it's an art centre. So we've got theatre, we've got cinema, we have visual art, we're not a producing theatre. So for us, it's a great partnership because we get to work with a really experienced, really knowledgeable producing theatre as a venue that we don't have a workshop, we don't have any of those things, we don't have those teams in our building. So it's this level of collaboration that we're always looking for. And I think it's becoming more and more common now. And it's a real good way of us pooling our resources and our expertise as well, you know, what we're good at, what other people are good at.

But also, it's a real chance for our audiences in Manchester to, you know, see the work of the Mercury team in the same breath. But also that real understanding that theatre's made in these regional venues. And it's so important. And, you know, this show's touring, it's going to loads of different venues, you know, it's a really exciting partnership to do that with. And I think more and more as, you know, costs become higher and higher and higher, and there's loads of challenges, you know, in the world, this is the best way for us to work. And it's about finding these really great partnerships where, you know, we're not a venue who can produce work, we can't make a set, we don't have a workshop, but we need to find those people that do. And the protection of those resources in different parts of the country are so important.

[6:41] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, and that way, actually, rather than sort of limiting everybody's access to theatre because it's like, well, this is mine, and you don't get to use it. We're actually working together to make sure that more people have access to it. And they don't have to just come to London to see things.

[6:56] Karen O'Neill: Exactly, exactly. And celebrating the craftsmanship of all the different departments across buildings, the fact that, obviously, you've done that brilliant workshop of the show, which we were then able to see. And then, you know, our producing team here, we've got a brilliant producer called Anthony Stewart-Hicks, who's been working on the show, you know, in collaboration with the other partners. And celebrating the skills of all the different departments has been really wonderful.

[7:21] Natasha Rickman: Oh, gosh, it's very exciting. And I'm really excited to, like, the fact that we're working particularly with Home, who we haven't worked with before, and now back again with Mercury. That's very cool. I wanted to ask you both more individually, because I think something we do at Mischief with the podcast, particularly, is talk about the different jobs that people can do in the arts. So it's not just acting, although that's great fun. But you guys obviously have really cool jobs, making stuff and also running buildings. Can you describe, first I'll start with you, Tash, like, as an artistic director, but also maybe your journey, because there's a secret, which is that we met, how old were we, like, 19?

[8:01] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, I think we were about 19.

[8:03] Charlie Russell: Yeah. So explain how your first encounter with Mischief, and then tell us, please, if you don't mind, like, your journey to being artistic director of a building, and then we'll talk about the chief executive of Home.

[8:15] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, it's, the two sort of intersect, actually, my journey to being an artistic director and actually meeting Mischief in a funny way, in that I started as an actor. So I trained as an actor, and I went to RADA. And while I was at RADA, I met one of the best humans ever, who is Harry Kershaw. And I was at the Edinburgh Fringe, and I went to watch Harry Doolight's camera improvise, and then saw the play that goes wrong, which was on at the same time, but Harry wasn't in and got to meet you all. And so that was sort of that was the beginning of my journey in the arts. And sort of during that training was how I first came across Mischief's work, and through speaking to Harry and seeing the incredible, you know, it just felt so special then, you know, as well as now.

So that, that was fabulous. And then yeah, I worked as an actor for about seven years. And then I really missed directing. And when I because I grew up in Colchester, I'm from here, and I went to the youth theatre here. And when I was about 15, I went, I think I'll have a go at directing a play. And they just sort of let me have a space and do it with some friends. And, and so after I'd been an actor for about seven years, I went, I actually really missed the directing. So switched and was a freelance director for a while, and then started working in buildings. So I worked at German Street Theatre, and then the Orange Tree in Richmond, as an associate director of the building. And then this job came up, and it was just such a beautiful opportunity to come back to Colchester.

And you know, the staff here are incredible. And some of the staff have been here since I was there doing that show when I was directing that show when I was 15, and have come back and they're, and they're here and we get to work together in this new context. And some of them are obviously new in that time. And so it's a really special, it's a really special thing. And my job, I work with our chief executive, and our exec director, and then with our producing and creative engagement teams. And we look, I look after all of the work that is on our, we have two spaces, the main stage, which is where Thespians is, and we also have a studio theatre, which has got 90 seats. And so we look after the produced work that we make.

So that's seven shows a year across the two spaces. And then all of the visiting work that comes in as well. And we also have a huge creative engagement outreach in terms of working with babies, young children, teenagers, all the way up to going into care homes and doing musical theatre songs with them to get them moving.

[10:51] Natasha Rickman: Yn ymgynghori hefyd, felly rydyn ni'n gwneud ychydig o ddarpariaeth, sy'n rhan fawr o'r adeilad, ac mewn gwirionedd... A'r ffordd rydych chi wedi'i ddechrau. A'r ffordd rydw i wedi'i ddechrau, ac mewn gwirionedd ar y gweithredu'r thespian, ddewis ein cymdeithas ifanc i wylio'r ffilm, ac roedd yn rhaid iawn i weld iddyn nhw gweld y theatr yn cael ei wneud gan Mischief, y cymdeithas anhygoel, ac iddyn nhw gael rhan o'r broses hwnnw, a gweld ei wneud, ac roedden nhw'n hoffi'i wneud. Roedden nhw'n hoffi'i wneud.

[11:23] Karen O'Neill: Oh, diolch. Ie, roedd hynny'n bwysig iawn. Waw, a nid yw hynny'n anhygoel? Roeddech chi'n dod yma, ac mae'n dangos pa mor bwysig yw'r theatr ar-leinol ar gyfer rhoi'r ffordd hwnnw, a'r holl gyfleoedd i bobl ifanc neu bobl yn y cymuned. Rwy'n gwybod, mae mam yn amdram yn y ddinas leol, ond roedd hynny'n bwysig iawn i gallu mynd a wneud hynny allan o'r ysgol. Ac felly, Karen, eich tro, dweud wrthym am eich rhwydfa i'ch swydd, ac yna efallai beth yw'r gwahaniaeth rhwng gyfarwyddwr cyffredinol a rheolwr artistig.

[11:50] Karen O'Neill: Ie, fy rhwydfa oedd, dydw i ddim wedi bod yn actor, dydw i ddim wedi gwneud unrhyw beth creadigol yn y ffordd honno. Dydw i ddim wedi gwneud unrhyw beth fel hynny. Pan wnes i ffilmio yn y brifysgol, roeddwn i'n ddiddorol, roeddwn i eisiau gweithio mewn ffilm, dyna yr hyn yr oeddwn i eisiau ei wneud. Ac yna roeddwn i'n cymryd rhan o sefydliadau i'r rhwydfa ffilm, ac roeddwn i wir yn mwynhau'r ffordd o sefydlu a gwneud pethau ddigwydd, a'r syniad hwn, roeddwn i'n ddiddorol o'r syniad o'r hyn sy'n gallu ei wneud y gwahaniaeth, a'r syniad o'r rôl, y rôl aset cyffredinol sy'n gallu ei wneud y gwahaniaeth, ac mae'r adnoddau yn gallu ei wneud mewn leoedd, a sut maen nhw'n dod i'r gymuned hwnnw.

[12:33] Karen O'Neill: Ac roeddwn i'n ddod o ddiweddarwyr gwasanaeth gweithio, ac roeddwn i'n meddwl, oh, dw i ddim yn meddwl, heb yr holl bethau sydd gen i fel plant, dwi ddim yn gwybod a oeddwn i'n meddwl y byddwn i'n hyderus yn yr amgylchedd honno. Felly roeddwn i wir eisiau rhannu adnoddau a sefydliadau sy'n iawn i'r cymunedau i'w gynnig, a dod o ddiweddarwyr i gysylltu ag y bobl lleol, ac i wneud ardalau'n well, ond gwneud y syniad bod y ffyrdd gwych, y gwaith gwych, y cinema gwych ar eich ddorlenni. Nid ydych yn rhaid i chi ymrwymo i ddod o le i wneud hynny ddigwydd, neu dydych chi ddim, ac roeddwn i'n meddwl o ffyrdd o ffyrdd o ffyrdd yn y syniad hwnnw.

[13:07] Karen O'Neill: Felly dechreuais gweithio yn llawer o amgylcheddau gwahanol, felly weithiais yn Swindon, yn Wyvern, yn ôl yn y diwrnod. Fe weithiais yn Lloegr Cymru, fe weithiais yn Birmingham am ychydig o amser, fe weithiais yn Manchester, y gwahaniaethau gwahanol yno, ac yna fe weithiais i weithio yn Yorkshire, ac yna roeddwn i yn ymgyrchu amgylchedd yn Lancaster, ond roeddwn i'n hoffi y syniad hwn o'r ffordd sut rydych chi'n creu'r amgylcheddau hyn sy'n wirioneddol gweithio â phobl ac yn rhoi cysylltiad â phobl i greadigwraeth, i hawliau, ac pan ddechreuodd y swydd ar ôl, roeddwn i'n teimlo fel cyfle gwahanol i fynd i sefydliad sydd gen i'r adeilad hyfryd a oedd yn eithaf newydd, a oedd yn newydd i mi.

[13:49] Karen O'Neill: Mae'r adeiladau diwylliannol yn eithaf anodd. A yw hynny'n eithaf anodd? Yw hynny'n eithaf anodd? Yw hynny'n eithaf anodd. Felly roeddwn i'n dweud, mae'n 10 mlynedd! Dw i eisiau mynd ymlaen! Ond roedd yn amlwg gwych ac roedd yna cyfle gwahanol i ddweud, iawn, gadewch i ni ymdrechu yr hyn rydych chi'n ei wneud pan mae gennych cenedlaeth. Ac roeddwn i wedi cyflwyno adeiladau o'r blaen sydd wedi bod yn cenedlaethau hyfryd a'r syniad o gweithio yng Nghymru fel sefydliad fawr gyda sefydliad fawr o ran hyn, fel y byddwn i'n ymdrechu beth allai hynny edrych fel, roeddwn i'n teimlo'n gyffrous iawn.

[14:25] Karen O'Neill: Felly, ac rydw i bob amser yn dweud rydw i'n y jack o'r holl tradau ac rydw i'n gweithio gyda tîm o wybodau. Rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r tîm a'r wybodau. Rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r wybodau yn ffilm, rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r wybodau yn y theatr, rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r wybodau mewn pob rhan gwahanol o'r hyn rydyn ni'n ei wneud fel sefydliad, o weithio gyda'r cymuned ar gyfer ein rhaglenau gysylltiadau creadigol i'n rhaglenau datblygu arweinwyr, rydyn ni'n gweithio gyda, rydyn ni'n gweithio gyda'r rhaglenau datblygu arweinwyr, 2,000 arweinwyr y flwyddyn i ddatblygu eu prifysgol creadigol ar gyfer yr holl fformiau gwaith.

[14:53] Karen O'Neill: Rydw i'n gweithio yw mae'n llawer iawn am gadw'r holl yn mynd a gwneud yn siŵr y byddwn ni'n darparu i'n cymuned y byddwn ni'n gwasanaeth y bobl o Manchester. Rydw i'n siarad llawer gyda'r tîm am ein rôl yw i fod yma ar gyfer y bobl o Manchester. Dyna'r rhan rydyn ni'n ei wneud. Rydyn ni yma i sicrhau bod maen nhw'n cael cysylltiad gyda'r holl bethau gwych ac mae'n rhaid i ni ddod ato iddyn nhw ac yna gwneud iddyn nhw gael eu cymryd rhan a ddod ato iddyn nhw i gysylltu gyda'u creadigwyr eu hunain ac nid ydyn nhw'n mynd i fod yn actor ond cael hynny fel cyflwyniad creadig neu gael hynny y gallwch chi ysgrifennu eich hun gallwch chi wella eich bywyd mewn nifer o ffyrdd gwahanol.

[15:36] Karen O'Neill: Ac rydyn ni'n gweithio gyda phobl bob amser sy'n mynd oh dwi ddim yn actor neu dwi ddim yn artist chi'n gwybod rydyn ni'n meddwl rydyn ni'n gwneud Manchester Open bob blwyddyn sy'n 450 ffyrdd o art cael eu creu gan bobl ym Manchester chi'n gwybod 90 99% ohonyn nhw nid ydynt artist nid ydyn nhw'n ymwneud â eu hunain nid ydyn nhw'n ymwneud â eu hunain artist y bobl sydd wedi gwneud lluniau yn y pwyllgor wedi gwneud sgwlptor ar y gwasanaeth neu rhywbeth ac maen nhw'n ei ddangos yn ein gallu ac mae hi yno i'r holl byd i weld mae'r pethau hynny yn bwysig iawn i mi ac felly i mi mae'n hollbwysig sut rydych chi'n creu'r amser hwn y adeilad hwn y aseth cyhoeddus sy'n siarad â phobl.

[16:19] Natasha Rickman: Ac rydw i bob amser yn dweud fel ein bod ni'n ymwneud â nhw bydd yn ymwneud â ni yn ymwneud â ni ein swydd yw edrych arno ar hyn o bryd a rhoi'r potensial cynyddu hwnnw ar gyfer y dyfodol a rydych chi'n gwybod ac rwy'n credu dyna beth bynnag y sefydliadau diwylliannol yma y bobl dysgu ychydig am sut mae'r bobl yn byw eu bywydau neu rydych chi'n gwybod ysgrifennu i rhywun eraill o'i bywyd am ddwy fwrdd o awyr mae'n ffordd gwych i'w wneud ac rydyn ni'n ei wneud ar gyfer ffilm rydyn ni'n ei wneud ar gyfer dyluniaeth rydyn ni'n ei wneud ar gyfer theatr mae'n ddiddorol.

[16:57] Karen O'Neill: Rydw i'n cael y penderfyniad hwn am Devil Wears Prada ac rydych chi'n gwybod rydych chi'n gwybod yn y cyntaf pan mae hi'n mae hi'n fel dwi ddim yn ffasiwn mae'n unig bly ac yna mae Miranda Priestley yn mynd drws mae hynny'n unrhyw fath bly ac rwy'n gallu ddweud i chi bod e'n mynd o dechrau yma ar y rhan hon ac mae'n mynd i yma ac mae'n mynd i yma mae'n mynd i yma ac nawr dyma beth rydych chi'n ei ddweud ac mae'n mynd i yma.

[21:43] Natasha Rickman: Yn ystod y gweithiau, mae'r cyhoeddiadau'n cael eu gweithio'n gyffredinol. Mae'n rhaid i bawb weithio i gael y lefel o'r cydnabod yn eang. Mae'r cymdeithas yma yn anhygoel. Mae'n anhygoel. Mae'n anhygoel. Mae'n anhygoel. Mae'n anhygoel. Rydyn nhw'n symddwyr gwasanaeth. Rwy'n credu bod ein swydd wedi gorffodzi'r 25 mlynedd, nid yw, oherwydd dydych chi wneud cymorth ynghylch phobl a oedd i chiasses eu hyfforddi eu hunain. Mae gen i calmlyn. Mae'n eich hoffi gan ein tîm ddweud, doedden ni'n cael syniad. Man ieddar oed. Rwy'n siwr, ydych chi ydych arni hefyd, Tash. Eich bod chi'n eisg y gwnaetho ti allu babob yn esgol bach yn eu hunain, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n ddiddorol iawn am y sefydliad rheolaethol.

Rydyn ni'n datblygu'r bobl hyn o fewn ein ardalau lleol, ac rwy'n ei hoffi pan maen nhw'n dweud, mae gen i'r swydd newydd anhygoel ymhellach, ac rydw i'n dweud, ie, mynd ymlaen, mynd i wneud y byd yn lle'n well. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n sefydliadau hyfforddi, ac heb eu bod, nid yw'r ecologiaeth hwnnw i ddigwydd, ond rydyn ni'n hyfforddi'r genedlaethau nesaf ac mae mynyddiaid wych, pobl cymunedol, dyna sy'n ei wneud iawn ym maes leol. Yn siŵr.

[23:17] Karen O'Neill: Felly fy nesaf o'r cwestiwn, os ydych chi'n ei ddylu'r ddesbion, beth yw'r cyntaf sy'n dod i'ch gofyn? Hylir. Dyma'r eiliad nesaf rydw i wedi cael hynny. Ydy? Felly dyna'n dda i gyd i gyd gwybod. Dyna'n dda. Nid oeddwn i'n gwybod, pa fyddwn i'n ei ddweud? Rydw i'n gobeithio'n dweud ychydig fel bonkers madcap. Bonkers madcap, un gwaith. Iawn, rydw i'n hoffi'r ffordd bod yn bonkers. Rydw i'n ei ddefnyddio llawer. Mae'r rhain yn bonkers yn fy mhobl byd. Ond iawn, mae'n bonkers. Rydw i'n meddwl oherwydd mae'n cymryd yr hoffi sydd yn ei gilydd. Ydw i'n gwybod. Ydw i'n gwybod. Ac mae'n ddiddorol. Ac mae'n ddiddorol. Ac rwy'n cofio, pan wnaethon ni'r rhannu, pan wnaethon ni'r rhannu, roeddwn i'n dweud, mae'n ddiddorol.

Roeddwn i'n gobeithio pob munud o hynny. Dwi ddim yn gwybod yr hyn rydw i wedi'i profi, ond roeddwn i'n mwynhau'n fawr. Felly iawn, dydw i'n dweud, dydw i'n gwybod, mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol. Mae'n ddiddorol.

[24:17] Natasha Rickman: Felly y gofynodd y gogledd Grec a'r goddesau oedd gods o bethau, o ffyrdd a pethau fel hynny. Dylech ddeall rhywbeth mwy na ffyrdd. A ffyrdd ddim fy nghyffordd. Os oeddech am fod yn god neu'n goddes o rhai pethau, beth dwi'n credu bydd eich godd? A ddim bydd eisiau bod yn nobl. Dwi'n credu y byddaf eisiau bod yn gogledd yw teleportio. Dwi erioed yn ffansio ychydig o teleportio. A yw hynny'n rhyfedd? Wel... Ond os ydych chi'n godd, gallwch chi gael rhyfedd? Rwy'n credu y gallwch chi. Rwy'n credu y gallwch chi gael rhyfedd sy'n eich bod chi'n teleportio ond nid yw... Nid ydych chi'r godd hwnnw. A ydych chi'r godd trafod? Efallai fy mod i'n godd trafod. Os ydw i'n gallu teleportio, byddwn i'n eu cymryd.

Ie, iawn, byddwn i'n rhoi hynny i chi. Oherwydd dwi'n credu y byddai'n gwych i allu gwneud hynny. Felly, rwy'n gwybod mae'n ddiddorol, ond a ydw i'r godd trafod? Rwy'n credu mae hynny'n anhygoel. Ie. A hefyd os ydych chi'n dda ar hynny, rwy'n siŵr byddwch chi'n helpu llawer o ni allan. Mae'n ddefnyddiol iawn. Wel, byddai'n ddefnyddiol... Rydym ni'n gobeithio i chi llawer. Ie. Ie.

[25:17] Karen O'Neill: Ac rydym ni'n ddiweddar ac mae'r pethau wedi'u rhannu... Yn ddiweddar. Karen, beth ydych chi'n ei fod yn y godd? Oh. Rwy'n credu fy mod i'n fod yn y godd o sandwichau. Ac rwy'n mynd i... Rwy'n cael rhesymau dda iawn i hyn. Ie. Rwy'n cofio'r sandwich. Ie. Rwy'n credu mai'n y peth gwych o bob amser. Nid oes unrhyw beth yn dda iawn o'r sandwich, ond nid oes unrhyw beth yn gwaed yn y sandwich dda iawn. Unrhyw beth sy'n gwych. Unrhyw beth fel hyn. Felly roedd yn deyrnod y gw Purd actual pethau tebygtaf, peth bach o tro feash. Mewn pen draw, dwi'n credu o ran unrhyw Bem mwynghau publicly at y llinell o lles, there is nothing like a really good sandwich, but there's nothing worse than a bad sandwich.

A soggy one, anything like that. So it's like, it's generally the texture, the sogginess... Ie, the quality. Like, not a good filling to bread ratio... Exactly. So I would like to be a sort of very caring god that made all sandwiches excellent. What's your favourite sandwich? Ready Salted Crisps.

[26:02] Natasha Rickman: Inside the sandwich?

[26:04] Karen O'Neill: Inside the sandwich. Yeah, of course. There we go. That's it. Squished down, good crunch. That's a premium sandwich. I'm a big fan. Thank you both so much, Tash and Karen, for coming on the podcast and talking to us today. We've been very lucky to have you.

[26:19] Natasha Rickman: Thank you so much for having us.

[26:20] Karen O'Neill: Thank you.

[26:21] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, we really enjoyed it.

[26:22] Karen O'Neill: Yeah.

[26:23] Natasha Rickman: And thank you all for listening. See you next time.

[26:32] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[26:33] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[26:34] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[26:35] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[26:36] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[27:02] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[27:33] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[27:34] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[28:02] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[28:03] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[28:04] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[28:33] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[28:34] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[29:03] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[29:04] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[29:33] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[29:34] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[30:03] Natasha Rickman: Bye.

[30:04] Karen O'Neill: Bye.

[30:32] Natasha Rickman: I was obsessed.

[30:38] Karen O'Neill: I was…and my best friend because I also loved Cats the animal…

[30:45] Natasha Rickman: I had a cat…

[30:46] Karen O'Neill: …and she's still my best friend now, she used to give me because we were friends from the age of three, she used to give me picture books of the different breeds of cat every year for my birthday.

[30:58] Natasha Rickman: Like a Devon Rex?

[31:01] Karen O'Neill: And I just had hundreds of hard book…picture books about the different types of cats.

[31:07] Natasha Rickman: I also did have a cat.

[31:08] Karen O'Neill: I had a cat as well.

[31:11] Natasha Rickman: I just dreamt of the cat.

[31:12] Karen O'Neill: But for me, and I don't know what this says about me, but for me it was quite a sort of…for a young person it was quite a sexual awakening watching the Rum Tum Tugger, like I…

[31:25] Natasha Rickman: I was so confused by my feelings around him because I was like, that is a man, but it's also a cat, and it's a man, he's quite a clingy sort of jumpsuit leotard, thrusting, but he's also just a cat, and I didn't…

[31:45] Karen O'Neill: He's got a lot to ask for, doesn't he?

[31:49] Natasha Rickman: How are we doing?

[31:50] Karen O'Neill: …by my feelings around him, because I was like, that is a man.

[31:55] Natasha Rickman: Were you recording all of this as well?

[31:56] Karen O'Neill: You can have it in.

[31:57] Natasha Rickman: Yeah, you can keep it, you can keep it.

[31:59] Karen O'Neill: Just head around it.

[32:00] Natasha Rickman: That'll be the trailer, that'll be the trailer.

[32:03] Karen O'Neill: The outtakes.

[32:04] Natasha Rickman: Yeah.

[32:05] Karen O'Neill: Okay.

[32:06] Natasha Rickman: All right, we'll have to talk about cats later, maybe we'll all go for dinner, but…

[32:12] Karen O'Neill: We just need to go back to everything I find out about cats, and the next question is the first bit.

[32:17] Natasha Rickman: We're keeping the sexual awakening stuff in though.

[32:22] Karen O'Neill: That could be the trailer, that's the trailer.