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[0:00] Mark Peikert: Martin Scorsese was meant to direct Cindy Lauper. But by the time Little Shop of Horrors opened in movie theaters in 1986, Frank Oz was director and Ellen Green was reprising her starring role as Audrey. Of course, that was after two preview screenings so legendarily disastrous that Warner Brothers was on the verge of not releasing the movie at all. One new ending later, a cult classic was born. But here's the thing. Does a cult classic heavy on gritty bleak style that concludes an attacked on happy ending translate to movie magic? Or is avoiding the apocalypse a recipe for movie madness? I'm Mark Peikert, myself a strange and unusual plant, and this is Movie Musical Madness, the Mushnik Mash.

[0:55] Mark Peikert: Joining us today is a woman so talented, she must have appeared during a total eclipse of the sun herself, Tatiana Maslany.

[1:01] Tatiana Maslany: Sorry. Dr. Tatiana Maslany.

[1:04] Tatiana Maslany: I loved that intro so much. Uh Tatiana Maslany, I cannot believe that I have somehow lured you into this podcast to talk about Little Shop of Horrors.

[1:21] Tatiana Maslany: I did not need luring. This was like you put a little strange plant in the window. It was automatic. I just opened the door as Christopher Guest and did three lines.

[1:34] Mark Peikert: Okay, so let's just get right into it.

[1:36] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah.

[1:37] Tatiana Maslany: That is such a strange sequence in the movie.

[1:39] Mark Peikert: The Christopher Guest specifically.

[1:42] Tatiana Maslany: I mean, there are so many bizarre, amazing comedic cameos in this. And I don't know anything about his history in terms of like, was he a thing then?

[1:53] Mark Peikert: I don't think so. I think it was just that thing of Frank Oz and then Steve Martin. And there was just this. And also who knows how big of a fan these people were of the musical because the musical had opened a few years before off Broadway, took over New York City, became a huge, huge hit. And the m I mean, look, the people they were talking to to play Audrey were Cindy Lauper, Barbara Streisand, and Madonna.

[2:20] Tatiana Maslany: No.

[2:21] Mark Peikert: Yes. Wait, and so when you said Martin Scorsese was meant to direct this movie.

[2:26] Tatiana Maslany: Yes.

[2:27] Mark Peikert: Oh my God. Steven Spielberg was going to, I think executive produce and Scorsese was going to direct.

[2:35] Tatiana Maslany: I have so many questions about all of this. Because you also mentioned two failed screenings, which like I don't know anything about the history of this movie. And the dumb thing when I said, like, yeah, let's do a little shop of horrors. I've never seen it on stage. I just realized that.

[2:55] Tatiana Maslany: So I can't even compare and contrast. That's one of the questions I wanted to bring up because this is a musical that we all know, or like people our age, certainly, all know from this movie.

[3:06] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, totally. Even though it is done a lot, uh one of my favorite exercises in uh ooh, is to go on YouTube and Google High School Little Shop of Horrors and see how many people have all white urchins in the cast.

[3:23] Mark Peikert: Oh my god.

[3:24] Tatiana Maslany: And they all do, I'm guessing.

[3:26] Mark Peikert: And they all do.

[3:27] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, they all do. Yeah. I would love to see. I think the only like um staged version I've seen on screen. Well, there's a couple. So I've seen the like Jake Gyllenhaal, and I think he did it with Ellen Green in like a staged reading. Um, and then I've seen the uh MJ Rodriguez her clip, which is I mean, uh my one of my biggest regrets is not seeing her do this performance.

[3:58] Mark Peikert: I know. So that was happening at Pasadena Playhouse uh last fall, fall 2019, at the same time that Jonathan Groff and Christian Borle and Tammy Blanchard opened off Broadway. Right production. And I did see that. I went to opening night.

[4:13] Tatiana Maslany: Uh uh.

[4:15] Mark Peikert: What you just did was a little drinky drinky action for the viewers at home, the listeners. Much like uh much like when Seymour goes on the radio show to talk about his strange and unusual looking plant. Uh this is a visual medium, correct?

[4:30] Tatiana Maslany: Podcasts are visual.

[4:32] Mark Peikert: Yeah, yeah.

[4:33] Tatiana Maslany: Yes. Or you're gonna want to do a bunch of yeah, um, odd audio gags. I'm sure you've got a bunch of props there, haven't you?

[4:42] Mark Peikert: Well, I'm known for my prop work, yes. I actually trained Carrot Top.

[4:47] Tatiana Maslany: So wow.

[4:48] Mark Peikert: Yeah, I know that's my cleaner. Physically train him in the gym when he became really big for some reason.

[4:54] Tatiana Maslany: Muscular.

[4:57] Mark Peikert: That's the most that's one of the most shocking images in history, I think. Is Carrot Top just jacked to shit.

[5:05] Tatiana Maslany: I in all of history, I agree.

[5:05] Mark Peikert: Carrot Top sporting some impressive musculature is one of the most shocking images I've ever seen. We're already so off topic and I adore it. Like this is all I want. I just this is an excuse to just like be vaguely mean and make fun of people.

[5:25] Tatiana Maslany: Right.

[5:26] Mark Peikert: As far as I'm concerned. Uh okay, so but you have seen it on stage, at least the stage version.

[5:33] Tatiana Maslany: No, on screen.

[5:35] Mark Peikert: No, but you saw Jake, didn't you? Or did you just see it?

[5:39] Tatiana Maslany: I saw Jake in a clip. That was it.

[5:41] Mark Peikert: Got it. I've seen little clips here and there. I also similar to YouTube stalking the musical. So very quickly, for you and for the listeners at home who might not have seen a stage production. Uh it's very, very faithful to the original version. The big difference is this ends with them living, getting married, and moving somewhere that's green. In the original stage version, uh Audrey 2 eats them both and then takes over the planet.

[6:13] Tatiana Maslany: Oh that's amazing.

[6:16] Mark Peikert: So was that one of the failed screenings? Was that was that people were like, uh-uh, too sad.

[6:22] Tatiana Maslany: So it's really interesting. They filmed a 23-minute finale of all of that happening, and they screened it, I think in La Jolla first. And the they fill out the cards and the cards come back. And like anything below a 33, I think studios just refused to release it. They scored a 13.

[6:42] Mark Peikert: Whoa.

[6:43] Tatiana Maslany: And so they were like, okay, just to make sure that it's not this particular audience, let's do another one. So I think they did another one in Hollywood or somewhere else. And even worse. And Frank Oz said in an interview, he realized you can kill the leads in a stage musical, and the actors come out and take their bow and everything is fine. But to kill the lead characters that movie audiences have watched for 90 minutes and fallen in love with and deeply care about is a completely different matter.

[7:13] Mark Peikert: Interesting, because some of my favorite musicals do end in like the they're they're sort of like the heaviest enders. Or like you know, like Into the Woods is one of my favorite musicals ever. And it like notoriously has such a painful ending. Where well, it's like if you stop Marie Antoinette 40 minutes in, happy ending. Doing nothing but having parties and hanging out with her friends and her husband.

[7:40] Tatiana Maslany: That's right.

[7:41] Mark Peikert: Uh so here's and this is also talking about the ending, and people didn't want this bleak ending. Here's my question about the tone of this movie. And I want to be very clear. I really enjoy this movie. I watched it again last night. Uh I really enjoy it. The performances are spot on. We're gonna get into Rick Moranis, hot or not, so hot.

[8:04] Tatiana Maslany: So hot.

[8:05] Mark Peikert: Oh, uncomfortably hot.

[8:07] Tatiana Maslany: Are you the only other person on the planet who feels this way? Because I've had a crush on him since since I saw this musical. I was like, actually, since Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, probably since Ghostbusters.

[8:19] Mark Peikert: He uses Ghostbusters, they're like he's too hunched over. He's basically like Yago, just like limping around. It's a bit too goofy. But this, I'm just like, are you hotter than Steve Martin?

[8:34] Tatiana Maslany: I mean, there's that you're you're talking about two of my greatest, like other than Jim Carrey, probably when I was a kid, but like the two men who uh created my, you know, my interest, well, what like what became my type in crushes for sure. I'm deeply concerned.

[8:53] Mark Peikert: Uh but I also need to go quickly to on a sidebar to say Jim Carrey and Liar Liar.

[9:00] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah.

[9:00] Mark Peikert: I mean beautiful.

[9:01] Tatiana Maslany: So sexy.

[9:02] Mark Peikert: He's so hot. In the for me it's the mask, unfortunately.

[9:08] Tatiana Maslany: You know, I gave you an opportunity to walk back the Jim Carrey.

[9:13] Mark Peikert: No, I went straight for it.

[9:14] Tatiana Maslany: You really doubled down on that. Good for you.

[9:16] Mark Peikert: Thank you.

[9:18] Tatiana Maslany: Thank you. So the tone of this movie is interesting because it goes back to the first thing we said, the Christopher Guest moment, because he his deadpan very like 1950s PSA like educational video performance is so at odds with the other three performances in that scene.

[9:45] Mark Peikert: Uh-huh.

[9:45] Tatiana Maslany: Uh-huh.

[9:47] Mark Peikert: And we never it's not a choice for all of the characters. It feels very much like Frank Oz and company said we have all these amazing funny friends. Let's just get them to come in for a day and do their thing.

[9:59] Tatiana Maslany: Yes. I mean Bill Murray is a perfect example.

[10:03] Mark Peikert: Yes.

[10:03] Tatiana Maslany: Like that monologue he gives feels like it could only be him. I was thinking about when I was watching him do it because he throws it away so completely while still making like huge physical choices. But it is really tossed like in that amazing Bill Murray you know style. Like it's not over the top it kind of could exist in a different film.

[10:25] Mark Peikert: All improvised no yeah no his entire scene is improvised.

[10:34] Tatiana Maslany: I have a fourth crush to add.

[10:37] Mark Peikert: Okay.

[10:38] Tatiana Maslany: So speaking of that, there is something that I need while we're on Bill Murray.

[10:41] Mark Peikert: Yeah.

[10:42] Tatiana Maslany: That scene, I do not remember as a child how sexual he makes that scene.

[10:47] Mark Peikert: Oh, yeah.

[10:49] Tatiana Maslany: It's all SM, isn't it? It's all like so.

[10:52] Mark Peikert: It's not just like, oh, I like pain, like, oh, that feels nice. It's just like deeply orgasmic.

[10:57] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, he's saying thank you repeatedly.

[11:00] Mark Peikert: Yes.

[11:04] Tatiana Maslany: It's yeah, and it's and it and there's like full commitment to it. There's zero wink in it.

[11:10] Mark Peikert: No.

[11:10] Tatiana Maslany: And I think that that's what's really remarkable about the performances across the board in this movie. There is no winking.

[11:18] Mark Peikert: No, even Audrey, who is like Ellen Green is like doing, you know, massive. Like I was trying to do her voice last night, and I was like, that is hard on the throat. That is deeply difficult on the throat. And she's like huge, but I believe every second. Like I'm like, that's a real person.

[11:37] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah.

[11:38] Mark Peikert: And so I think that's that's a testament, maybe to Frank Oz, having worked on the Muppets for so long, that he understands how to get humanity out of over the top, like literally non-human performers.

[11:53] Tatiana Maslany: Yes. You think I always think about puppetry being like the most um uh the best acting because there's so little movement or like there's such specificity to the movement and like restriction to the movement that that an like a puppet can do like you're saying with Rick Moranis, like his hunched over thing, but like if a puppet did like a tiny hunch in a scene, you'd be like, oh, you'd feel everything.

[12:23] Tatiana Maslany: Like there's just such tiny little nuanced movements that translate to like huge emotion. And you know what I mean? Storytelling. And I think that that's also a really a testament to Frank Oz working with Ellen Green, who did this show for hundreds of performances off Broadway. This doesn't feel like something that she's walking through. This feels very much like a fresh and a movie performance. This is not like I'm just gonna, although there is that moment in the reprise of "Suddenly Seymour" where Rick Moranis is singing to her and she's facing him, and then he's crooning very sweetly, and then she opens her mouth and gulps in air and turns full front to the camera to belt.

[13:07] Mark Peikert: Totally.

[13:08] Tatiana Maslany: And I think that's what I love about the movie too, is that it doesn't pull any, it's like it honors the fact that it was a stage piece. Like it loves that and it allows for that to be like continued into the as much as it is cinematic, like there's something about it that does feel like we're on a sound stage, and like you know what I mean? Like this rain machine is, do you know what I mean? There's like a nod to that.

[13:37] Mark Peikert: Well, and there's an interview where Frank Oz said, I didn't want to do anything on location, I didn't want to break the spell of the atmosphere that this world has to exist in to be taken seriously as a movie. And I think that that was exactly right. If you see them on an actual New York City street, then the juxtaposition of that and the Audrey 2 is too much. Like you can't compute that, and it feels false. But if you create this exaggerated, I mean, also, this is one of the grittiest movie musicals I can think of. Other than maybe "Sweeney Todd."

[14:12] Tatiana Maslany: Right.

[14:15] Mark Peikert: 30 years later.

[14:17] Tatiana Maslany: Right. I mean, "Le Miz" is pretty heavy, but it's like it's heavy from the start. Like there's zero reprieve from it. That it's just like, uh-huh. Whereas this kind of navigates many different tones. Well, and there's also just something about like the cinematography and the set dressing. I mean, I can't imagine who, so I have notes. One of the first notes is the saddest florist ever.

[14:46] Tatiana Maslany: This is the saddest florist shop I've ever seen.

[14:50] Mark Peikert: Totally. He comes in and asks for a hundred dollars worth of roses. They don't have any roses. Where did these roses come from? Were they in the back?

[15:00] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, we don't see many plants in this plant shop. The only thing sadder than actually, the only thing sadder than the initial florist shop is the funeral arrangement that Audrey makes where she just throws glitter onto some lilies. I love that about her. That's my favorite character trait.

[15:26] Mark Peikert: I mean, that is also my one deal breaker with a character. And I let it slide here because it's heightened. But you can murder people, you can deal drugs, you can do whatever you want. You have to be good at your job, though. Yeah, the minute you were bad at your job.

[15:45] Tatiana Maslany: That's why I had such a hard time with "Fargo" season one. I was like, ah, everyone's so bad at their jobs.

[15:50] Mark Peikert: The thing I had trouble with season one of "Fargo" was the jump at the end when we miss out on all of their kissing. I'm like, you built so much kiss tension that we don't even see their courtship.

[16:03] Tatiana Maslany: No, you just get like married and preggers.

[16:06] Mark Peikert: Yeah, no, I was out when they did that. I really wanted some tension to be released slow bound. Did you finish it?

[16:15] Tatiana Maslany: There were only like two episodes left. Yeah, I did finish it, but I was like, but my heart broke. It was like you skipped out on all the kissy kissy bits, which is my favorite stuff.

[16:26] Mark Peikert: Fair, fair enough. Uh oh, I do have a question for you. Have you ever entered a florist shop on a whim based on what is in the window?

[16:35] Tatiana Maslany: I have a very big block in terms of florist shops in the sense. Like, I don't know what I'm doing when I go in there. So there is rare that's a rare occasion when I walk into one with any kind of like it's more like help me, but let's get this over with. Cause I have to get a present for somebody and I don't know what I'm doing. It is one of the few I can only compare it to trying to walk through like the perfume makeup skincare aisles of department stores when I was an acne-stricken teenager. Where I'm just like, no, don't look at me. Don't leave me alone. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear how you know better than I do. And that's what a florist shop is for me. Like, I know you know better than I do. I don't know what kind of dirt to get with this plant. Does this need a lot of sun? Does this need a lot of water?

[17:25] Mark Peikert: Yes.

[17:27] Tatiana Maslany: I think the only time I like entered a shop because something so like moved me in the window was when I was passing this vintage shop in LA and they had a Groucho pajama set. Like old, like it was like a long sack, like a night dress that had Groucho on it. It was vintage, and I was like, I need that. And I was like, busted in. I was like, please, Sir, like give me that Groucho PJ. And he was like, that'll be $300. And I was like, bye! Ran out. Like moth. There was like holes in it. I was like, dude, you can't sell that for 300 bucks.

[18:05] Mark Peikert: Who is Groucho?

[18:06] Tatiana Maslany: Groucho Marx.

[18:08] Mark Peikert: Oh, that's what I thought you were saying. But then I was like, there's but that seems such a bridge too far in terms of like who would put Groucho on a caftan.

[18:19] Tatiana Maslany: It was surreal. And that's why I was like, I'm like, I simply must have that. I need that in my life. And then it was the price was the price is too high.

[18:27] Mark Peikert: The price is wrong.

[18:29] Tatiana Maslany: What I'm hearing from you is you lived "Little Shop of Horrors," but Audrey 2 was a Groucho caftan where someone put in a window to lure in victims.

[18:40] Mark Peikert: And they didn't have change for a $500 bill, and I wasn't willing to give it.

[18:47] Tatiana Maslany: No, you have to draw the line somewhere. Groucho, $300, fine. $500, it's not all the Marx brothers.

[18:54] Mark Peikert: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're missing three important, one less important Marx brother.

[19:00] Tatiana Maslany: I wanna, I'm a completist to call me when you get Zeppo. Otherwise, not interested.

[19:05] Mark Peikert: Yes. Um also my one of my favorite weird things about this movie, and whatever, that's another tangent.

[19:14] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah. One of the major characters is a dentist, and everyone has the very 80s yellow teeth.

[19:20] Mark Peikert: Oh my god, I noticed that too.

[19:22] Tatiana Maslany: Steve Martin's wonderful yellow teeth. But back then, they probably looked white because now we all have whitening strips.

[19:31] Mark Peikert: We all have lightning. We never knew our teeth could be this color.

[19:34] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah. Nokie, I noticed that too when he like leans into the camera. Also, he's just dancing in this movie. There's one little move he does when he walks into the shop and he goes, oh, and he does this leg thing that's not even Elvis, but it's just so beautiful. I was like, that man. I love him. I should have looked this up. I wonder if he was still with Bernadette Peters when he made this movie. Was this before "Pennies from Heaven" or after?

[20:07] Mark Peikert: I think it was after.

[20:08] Tatiana Maslany: They probably filmed in '85.

[20:11] Mark Peikert: This movie?

[20:12] Tatiana Maslany: Maybe early '86. They filmed this in early '86 at least.

[20:15] Mark Peikert: I was just I was just born.

[20:19] Tatiana Maslany: I was only just merely born. You really missed a lot.

[20:23] Mark Peikert: There were wonderful things happening.

[20:26] Tatiana Maslany: I bet. Just a few years before, Marissa Baronson and I entered her birthday party on a white horse, and I fell off the back just as the photographers clicked, and she's the only one preserved in history.

[20:37] Mark Peikert: Studio 54.

[20:38] Tatiana Maslany: It's a Studio 54 bit. I don't know. I worked with an actor once who was like of the Studio 54 era, and he told me that there were tables of meat, cold cuts at crotch height at Studio 54. One time when he went, I was like, I don't want to, I don't want this. No, please. No, thank you.

[21:00] Mark Peikert: There, I will tell you a story involving people who are still living when we finish.

[21:05] Tatiana Maslany: Okay.

[21:06] Mark Peikert: But it involves a legendary singer, actress, dancer.

[21:11] Tatiana Maslany: Uh-huh.

[21:12] Mark Peikert: And it involves a legendary male ballerina.

[21:16] Tatiana Maslany: Ooh, cool.

[21:17] Mark Peikert: And it involves under a table with a bottle of poppers.

[21:21] Tatiana Maslany: Okay.

[21:22] Mark Peikert: Was there meat on the table? Were there cold cuts on the table?

[21:25] Tatiana Maslany: No, the meat was under the table.

[21:28] Mark Peikert: Oh yeah. It was that's my Reba. One of my one of my questions on in my notes is literally, is Audrey good at Ikebana?

[21:42] Tatiana Maslany: Which is the Japanese art of flower arranging.

[21:45] Mark Peikert: Oh, right.

[21:46] Tatiana Maslany: I mean, she certainly touches them quite a bit and sort of fluffs them. There's a lot of delicate dabbing. Which to me, if somebody was like, be a florist, that would for sure be what I would do. Mine floristry. It's like tapping at tapping them flowers. Just pulling the petals. I just there's also that amazing. There aren't a ton of comedy lines that really get me. It's more Pratt Falls or physical comedy in this one. But the one line that always gets me is wedding. Oh no, uh, he says a funeral. And she goes, hand me the lilies. I don't know what voice I'm doing there. That's I think it's like Tammy Grimes or we're I mean, we're one glass of iced coffee away from just full Holly Hunter.

[22:38] Mark Peikert: I love it.

[22:45] Tatiana Maslany: My favorite moment, and I filmed it when I was watching, was when Seymour goes in to check out the like Chinese flora, like the Chinese shop that has like the strange, you know, I guess things that he cuts off and then like grows into different stuff, but he like finds nothing that day, and then he walks across the street and stands with like a do like a group singing like the chorus of men, and they're all like facing one direction, and he kind of looks at them and then like goes to take a position next to them, and it's just the cutest little moment, and that's when I knew he's still my biggest crush.

[23:27] Mark Peikert: Rick Moranis.

[23:28] Tatiana Maslany: God, I mean, I don't want to get bogged down in how sexy Rick Moranis is.

[23:34] Mark Peikert: Honestly. What is it for you?

[23:39] Tatiana Maslany: Uh the sweetness. Well, first of all, I love a shorty. I'm 6'1, and I love like a 5'6, 5'7.

[23:47] Mark Peikert: Oh, I love to go to like I love to walk up to shorter statured men and just say, climb me like I'm a tree.

[23:56] Tatiana Maslany: Would you say that to Rick?

[23:57] Mark Peikert: To Ricky.

[23:58] Tatiana Maslany: Oh, he would be no, he's too delicate. I would never too fragile for sure. I would pick him up in my arms and carry him to safety.

[24:08] Mark Peikert: I love him.

[24:09] Tatiana Maslany: Honestly, you probably could carry him to safety as well. I would I would try my darkness.

[24:14] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, we're both tiny Canadians. I think that's what I respond to as well. He's like obviously Canadian. And he's got that like um pout mouth, the sweet little pout mouth. And at one point, when he's saying, I don't know, and then he goes, I don't know. And he has this like growl that comes in. Hands in pockets. Give me a break. Sweetness with a little growl every now and then. Yeah. What more does a gal need? I asked you. Truly. I also loved the ashtrays in the dentist's waiting room. Great detail. One of those things where I'm like, never gonna happen again. No. Waiting rooms probably won't either. Uh I will say, as Audrey Two is dragging itself across the room to call Audrey, which I love that Audrey Two knows Audrey One's phone number.

Yeah, that's so true. But okay, sure. And does that cute thing where he like checks for a coin? And he also turns he like twiddles the phone cord. Yes. Sort of, you know, bored. I mean, can you imagine Martin Scorsese directing a puppet in the way that Frank Oz has directed this puppet? I'm deeply grateful he did not direct this movie, I have to say. I mean, sure, classics, but I don't need I don't need you know, I don't need I don't need us to be siding with the dentist in this one. I was going to say, I don't need to see the domestic violence really glorified. No, and like kind of sexy and for three hours. No, 94 minutes. Like, that's my sweet spot. Yeah, yeah. Please. I can do anything for an hour and a half, and mostly in shadow.

Yes, which I thought was also so great because it it's more upsetting that you can't see how bad it is, that you have to use your imagination that this is happening. And it's so true of those like living situations where you see through a window little clips of people's lives. Like that's such a you know, yeah. Uh I have a question for you. Yes, I'm just pouring water, I'm not peeing. That's whatever you need to do. I have no judgment here. All right. Uh does Audrey ever realize that Seymour killed those people? I mean, if she did, she probably, given her history, might actually like forgive that. He saved her a fortune on ace bandages and Epsom salt. That's right. That's right. There's a lot of like, I love Lucy style, you know, wife battering kind of winks in this in this here.

But they it even watching it like what, 86, so 34 years later. Yeah, it never veers into grimacy. Tell me what you mean. I don't, every time that he hits her or he's threatening to her, or she's um blaming herself or saying that she deserves it, it never it tiptoes right up to the line of like, oh, this is so bad. It just goes right up to that line, but for me, it never crosses that line. Uh-huh. Into like unwatchable, this is a problem. No, because we empathize with her. We're like on her journey. We like get inside of her experience and her dreams and stuff like that. Yes. Yeah. The scene with the with the um the Chinese florist where the urchins are dressed in the um, I can't think of the word for that dress.

Uh uh. But you know what I'm talking about. In the mood for laugh, whatever with that beautiful dress that she's wearing. Yeah. That like maybe crosses the line of like, ooh. Yes. But again, the this world is so heightened that you kind of give it a pass as okay. This is like an imaginary world. So okay, I'll just like that is five seconds, so I'll just close my eyes for five seconds and then get back to this movie that's so good. Yes, not everything is going to age well. No. No. But it is like trope land as well. Like there's something about it that's like these are the archetypes of this, you know, kind of cartoon puppet world. And like, how do those archetypes then transcend the archetype or push past, you know, push out of it.

And they never play the archetypes for laughs. No. No, it's so true. It's such a I mean, I know we're supposed to like shit on it, but I'm not sure. Oh, no, we're not at all. No, this is one of my flaves. I love it to death. This is this is the thing you picked one of the few good movie musicals. I mean, the a chorus line movie, like there's not a ton that you can say about that that's great. Right. But little shop like it, and also we didn't even touch on this. How awesome that we got Ellen Green preserving her performance that made her a star. Yeah. So this was her iconic performance. This was the one. And did you you didn't ever see her do that? You wouldn't have seen that. No. I was at 54 at Studio 54 with Marissa Baronson.

Right, of course. And I was in a diapey eating cold cuts. Um, do you feel like she I don't know much about her? Did she come out fully formed as this kind of character outside, like, did her work come from who she was, or did she create this from the work she was given? I think she created this from the work that she was given. Uh she had done, I think she's one of the few performers who starred in two Broadway musicals that closed before opening. Oh God. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh, and so this was like her make or break moment, and it made her. She actually is the one who suggested that Audrey be a blonde. Oh, interesting. Which is now like such like this is the iconic look. And I think the only way to stage the show now, as both of us saw individually, or you with the clips, is to go completely in a different direction.

So Tammy Blanchard does not have that same like crazy belt that Ellen Green has, but she acted the hell out of it. And uh she has like that Brooklyn accent. So it was just like perfect casting in that way. And MJ Rodriguez is just such a like brilliant performer in her own right and brings all of her history to this character and what that means, so that there's an extra layer. Because really Ellen Green is Audrey to the point where when Jake Gyllenhaal did it, she reprised her role 30 years later. She had to. She had to. Yeah, it's an interesting because because she occupies such a specific place in like the trope of of a woman, like that sort of that, you know, like a like a beaten down, but but still in love with the man who hits her, who hurts her.

Like there is such like there's unfortunately still translatable kind of echo that we can go back to and it doesn't feel irrelevant. Like it doesn't feel like we've moved past that. So to cast somebody in it who embodies like a sense of what that pain is is just interesting. That's really well, and I think we all get so when you were in New York. Did you ever go to Marie's Crisis? [32:21] Tatiana Maslany: Maybe. What is that? That's the showtoon piano bar in the West Village. No, I didn't. Oh my god. Okay, when you when life returns, yeah. And you are back in New York, we have to go because you would, it's just everyone drunk screaming show tunes around a piano. I love that. I don't even need to be drunk to be doing that.

No, it helps if you are, but no. Uh and one of the big shows was Little Shop, and they would do like skip row, and they would do Somewhere the Screen. That was the quiet song, which all the quiet songs are like were when I said, I'm gonna have a cigarette. Can the adults please? And then they would do uh suddenly Seymour. And so you think of the score of Little Shop as this big belty, like impossible to sing score. But honestly, it's just how you approach suddenly Seymour that that is true. This is not like a crazy score in that way, like it's not a crazy Broadway Beltress score. Right. Right. So interesting that Ellen Green's performance of this one part of one song has so has become so closely identified with what the score sounds like.

Uh-huh. When so little of the score actually sounds like the end of suddenly Seymour, where everyone's belting for the gods. Yeah, that's so interesting. Well, because I was also looking at uh uh Rick Moranis in it, and that he does that, like he has a great voice because he's just kind of an extension of how he speaks. Like it's just very like articulated and kind of like dorky and like he's speak he's speak yelling a little bit. Oh, and I loved it. Yeah, same. Oh, it really worked for me. I know me too. I mean, it might have been the Bud Lights I was drinking as I watched, but I don't think it was. Wait, this is on this is last night. Yeah. You're drinking Bud Lights last night. Yeah. Why?

I don't know why a Bud Light seems like only a cartoon drink drink. Like it doesn't, like I don't see those in real life. Well, yeah, I got to do that. I love it. That's what it's not every night. I don't always have Bud Light. I do drink every night, but it's not always Bud Light. Was it specific to this movie or like this requires a Bud Light kind of buzz? No, I've just been like sitting on the floor in front of a fan drinking beer this past two weeks during this heat wave. And I just I like hit my limit with the hard cider last week. Yes. And I was like, I'm just gonna, what do I want? What do I want? Oh, this is half the price of that cider. Fuck. Yeah, I'm gonna get some Bud Light. And be a cartoon boy.

Yeah. So you just gave me the best segue I could possibly have asked for. Did you know this was a cartoon series in the early 90s? I feel like I did see that at one point, and I don't know, like with the there's like images of it online. Yeah, so you can watch the intro. I think the premise of the show became uh Audrey Two doesn't eat people, it's just a talking plant. Oh, so it's just like a sassy friend. Basically. Uh-huh. And the animation and the look and feel of it is very Beetlejuice cartoon. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, I'm here for it. I mean, I still wish Audrey ate people, but I'm here for that. I mean, who knows what happens in later seasons. It could be like that Rob Lowe show that got cancelled, and they still had to like record five film five more episodes.

And he was like, guys, let's just go crazy. And it turns out that this the series is about some lawyer. And it turns out that he was completely deranged and psychopathic and had invented this whole world.

[36:28] Tatiana Maslany: So what show is this?

[36:31] Mark Peikert: Like the Lion's Den.

[36:33] Tatiana Maslany: Oh.

[36:35] Mark Peikert: Huh?

[36:35] Tatiana Maslany: Oh, yeah.

[36:36] Mark Peikert: So it starts off as like a legal drama and then they get canceled, and he's like, who cares? They've got to pay us to make this anyway. Let's just go crazy.

[36:42] Tatiana Maslany: So no one was watching it. So they just did like all of these crazy things. I loved that. Actually, I have a Rob Lowe story.

[36:53] Mark Peikert: It's related to musicals.

[36:55] Tatiana Maslany: I was working on a movie with him back in Toronto. This is one of the first jobs I ever did in Toronto. And he was, he and I were sitting in like the tent, whatever. And I was like trying to stay in the moment. I had like a kind of emotional scene, and I was listening, and he was like, What are you listening to? He was like uh smoking cigars or something, and he was like, What are you listening to? I was like, Oh, I'm listening to um Le Miz, I'm listening to uh Little Fall of Rain or whatever. And he was like, Oh, let me listen. And he put his he took my CD player, which I had, my discman, and he listened to it, and I think he was singing along with it. That's my Rob Lowe musical moment.

[37:37] Mark Peikert: Stop it.

[37:39] Tatiana Maslany: No, I won't. I shan't.

[37:40] Mark Peikert: I don't want you to be telling me about Rob Lowe singing to you.

[37:46] Tatiana Maslany: That's what he had to end with like a cigar in his mouth. It was like perfect I love that I just I love that I just spent the last 30 minutes being like, I love sweet dopey short guys, and then you bring up Rob Lowe, and I'm like, Yes, bring him to me.

[38:02] Mark Peikert: Are you like into guys or something? Is that the thing?

[38:05] Tatiana Maslany: No, what you just love all guys?

[38:07] Mark Peikert: I did like I like to have a romance, you know.

[38:10] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, yeah. Just really good friends with them. Just I feel like Rob Lowe could have a really good time with me, just like looking back, drinking Bud Light, like see where the night takes us.

[38:20] Mark Peikert: Yeah, just watching Le Miz.

[38:22] Tatiana Maslany: I'm sure he would.

[38:23] Mark Peikert: Oh, stop.

[38:24] Tatiana Maslany: I'm sure he would.

[38:25] Mark Peikert: Oh boy. Oh, I'm getting I'm fanning myself.

[38:27] Tatiana Maslany: I've got the vapor. Do you imagine if you watched Little Shop and you saw that Rick Moranis pout? What a sexual night that would be.

[38:37] Tatiana Maslany: I actually have a giant fan with a peacock on it that is just out of reach.

[38:42] Mark Peikert: No, I know. I really let you down with my prop work today. I apologize.

[38:46] Tatiana Maslany: I apologize for that.

[38:49] Mark Peikert: Yeah, get it.

[38:53] Tatiana Maslany: Get it.

[38:56] Mark Peikert: Oh my gosh.

[38:57] Tatiana Maslany: It's on a hanger.

[38:58] Mark Peikert: No, I had to take the hanger to get it.

[39:00] Tatiana Maslany: Oh can you thwarp it though? You know how to thwarp it?

[39:03] Mark Peikert: No, I don't.

[39:05] Tatiana Maslany: No.

[39:06] Mark Peikert: I don't have any rhythm or flexibility. I can't do things like that.

[39:09] Tatiana Maslany: Did you ever do musicals?

[39:11] Mark Peikert: Uh no, yes. I did a community theater production in small town Texas of the best little whorehouse in Texas.

[39:19] Tatiana Maslany: Okay.

[39:20] Mark Peikert: Um in the group numbers. Uh well, there's no nice way to say it. A committee was formed and went to the director to request that I lip sync during all the group numbers because I was throwing them all off.

[39:33] Tatiana Maslany: Well, who was in this committee?

[39:36] Mark Peikert: Um, everyone.

[39:37] Tatiana Maslany: Do you remember their first and last names?

[39:40] Mark Peikert: Travis.

[39:42] Tatiana Maslany: Travis Daniel. Gosh, what betrayal.

[39:46] Mark Peikert: I well, it's not really a betrayal. It was fair, honestly.

[39:50] Tatiana Maslany: Uh-huh. I um I used to do musicals. Actually, the reason I watched Little Shop was because my improv, my high school improv team, we had to do uh these different we had to, we were in this like improv competition with all the high schools, and one of the um like one of the things you had to do was a style event. So you had to do an a music like an improvised something in the style of blah blah blah. So it could have been the style of uh noir film or the style of uh uh uh silent movie or whatever, but we did the style, we did it in the style of musical, a Broadway musical, and my teacher was like, you have to watch Little Shop, like that's the iconic, that is the iconic musical.

[40:36] Mark Peikert: I think because it's so like loves the genre, like it's so lovingly a musical.

[40:43] Tatiana Maslany: It yes, and I think that that's why this is one of the more successful musicals of the decade. It is not trying to not be a musical, it is not trying to trick you into forgetting that it is a musical.

[40:56] Mark Peikert: Yeah, it is very much here's the I want song. Here is how they're going to here's all the crazy shenanigans with the montage with backup singers with a Greek chorus, yeah.

[41:08] Tatiana Maslany: Which also, where did the urchins go halfway through the movies? Where do they go?

[41:14] Mark Peikert: They sort of so the narration, we we no longer have that what is it? We don't have the anchor of somebody seeing it from the outside.

[41:23] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, so then once because when he kills when Orin dies and he chops him up. I think the urchins disappear then.

[41:36] Mark Peikert: So is there something there's some kind of there's some sort of like it's almost like the second half of Into the Woods, like where we're sudden sort of like left to our own devices. Like the the safety of the structure is gone because we've like, because like someone's betrayed his true nature.

[41:57] Tatiana Maslany: Do you read and think about scripts in depth for a living?

[42:03] Mark Peikert: I've read a couple scripts in my time, and I've read a couple books about whatever script writing or whatever. Uh I dabble.

[42:11] Tatiana Maslany: I actually think I really wish that you'd like shown up to be on camera with me with your Emmy.

[42:18] Mark Peikert: Speaking of prop work.

[42:20] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, that's a Gerado in a box. I just bring this with me everywhere I go. This is my this is my Emmy. I'll show you my Emmy.

[42:30] Mark Peikert: This is on my mantle.

[42:32] Tatiana Maslany: Oh, yeah. I think that that is a life-size Emmy.

[42:36] Mark Peikert: It is. It's a bust, a lady's bust. Classic lady's bust.

[42:42] Tatiana Maslany: Uh so I have two follow-up, two final questions for you before we have to wrap this up. Uh one is before the question, uh, one is a comment. I would love to see you as a Seymour.

[42:56] Mark Peikert: I okay, I was so grateful you said that because I was thinking, I was like trying to cast myself in this just because I'm, you know, obsessed with me, I guess. I was like, who would I be? And it would definitely be Seymour. I mean, honestly, just orphan black it up and play all of them.

[43:16] Tatiana Maslany: You've got the voice for anybody.

[43:18] Mark Peikert: Well, I have zero voice, but I feel like I could talk it. I could talk it out. And I do think he and I have a similar, there's a similar vibe going on there for sure.

[43:29] Tatiana Maslany: Okay, definitely Seymour, but I also think cut the musical numbers, do a one-person Little Shop of Horrors where you film yourself as all of the characters, but only the book scenes, which are everyone's favorite parts of a musical anyway.

[43:43] Mark Peikert: The book scenes, is that the the lines?

[43:47] Tatiana Maslany: Yes.

[43:48] Mark Peikert: The book scenes?

[43:49] Tatiana Maslany: The lines.

[43:50] Mark Peikert: What is that?

[43:51] Tatiana Maslany: The lines? That's when they talk to each other.

[43:56] Mark Peikert: I learned that from Rob Lowe.

[43:58] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah.

[43:59] Mark Peikert: That's I I would love to. I would absolutely do that. Uh, so my final question. My real final question is.

[44:12] Tatiana Maslany: Do you think Little Shop of Horrors, the movie, works as a movie without prior knowledge of the stage musical?

[44:21] Mark Peikert: Yes, because that's the only way I knew it. And it works. It works. It works for me in so many ways.

[44:29] Tatiana Maslany: I agree. And I think that even the changed ending is as much as we both love a dark ending and see everyone die. I think that that is the wrong choice for this incarnation of the story. I think that you fall in love with both of them so much giving these movie star incandescent performances that you don't want to see them eaten alive and the world consumed. You want their you want their love to survive and thrive.

[44:58] Mark Peikert: Yes. And and it is also it's a it's a subversively dark ending to be like these two people, one of whom has committed like negligent murder.

[45:12] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, like murder by negligence by like not doing.

[45:15] Mark Peikert: Yeah. Gets gets the little white picket fence. And it will eventually tear them apart.

[45:23] Tatiana Maslany: Yes. I mean, cut to three weeks from now, when they're just like coexisting and and just annoyed at whatever.

[45:31] Mark Peikert: Annoyed at the floral arrangement.

[45:33] Tatiana Maslany: Picking, the pedal picking. I mean, she's gonna run out of glitter.

[45:38] Mark Peikert: Yeah. That's gonna be a whole thing.

[45:41] Tatiana Maslany: Uh-huh. I can't imagine what their sex looks like, to be honest.

[45:45] Mark Peikert: Even though I highly sexualize Rick Moranis, I don't know.

[45:45] Tatiana Maslany: I don't know. I don't know how to know what sex with a woman looks like in general.

[45:58] Mark Peikert: Fair enough.

[45:59] Tatiana Maslany: I like Seymour and Orin.

[46:04] Mark Peikert: Yeah, I know exactly how that would go. We see a little clip of it as he's sort of, you know, got him in the chair.

[46:13] Tatiana Maslany: That was also cut from from the after the previous screening, the whole like sex scene between Seymour and Dr. Scrivello.

[46:23] Mark Peikert: What a shame.

[46:25] Tatiana Maslany: What a shame. People weren't ready.

[46:26] Mark Peikert: They weren't ready for it.

[46:28] Tatiana Maslany: Different time. But I do want to say before we leave, uh, you can watch the original ending on YouTube and on it's an extra on the DVD.

[46:36] Mark Peikert: I'm basically gonna go right now to watch that, and then also the cartoon.

[46:42] Tatiana Maslany: Yeah, I think that you should.

[46:44] Mark Peikert: I can't wait. I'm so I'm so glad for it for all this new information that I that you've given me.

[46:50] Tatiana Maslany: Well, and I'm so glad that we got to do this because you are secretly one of the funniest people that I've ever spoken to.

[46:58] Mark Peikert: Or not secret to me, but like in general, no one thinks like Tatiana Maslany is hilarious.

[47:04] Tatiana Maslany: I actually think that you're so hilarious.

[47:06] Mark Peikert: Oh, thanks. I need you to do like a big rom-com.

[47:10] Tatiana Maslany: I would love to. Can it be with Rick Moranis?

[47:13] Mark Peikert: I was just about to say, May December romance. You and Rick Moranis will lure him out of retirement. Rob Lowe will play his skeezy older brother.

[47:22] Tatiana Maslany: Yes. I can't wait. Sweding itself. That's the one I'm the most excited about is working with Rob Lowe again.

[47:28] Mark Peikert: Yeah. I really need to do that again.

[47:31] Tatiana Maslany: Yes, no, I I believe that. I hope we get canceled midway through the movie and then just get to do our own thing.

[47:39] Mark Peikert: So also add the Lion's Den to your list of things to watch today because don't think you'll regret it.

[47:47] Tatiana Maslany: Uh, Tatiana Maslany, thank you so much for joining me today.

[47:51] Mark Peikert: Thank you. And loyal listeners, thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Movie Musical Madness. And please join us next week for another episode.

[48:05] Tatiana Maslany: This episode of Movie Musical Madness was edited by Kyle Moore with Theme Music by Sunshine Music. And thank you for listening to Movie Musical Madness, part of the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find out more about the podcast and me at VPN.fm slash movie musical madness.