This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:15] Eva: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of My First Show.

[0:20] Eva: Today's guest is just a lovely, sweet, and frankly very talented human being that I have made turkey sandwiches with, sang turkey lurky time with, and I'm now having a podcast with, and that is Robin Lord Taylor.

[0:45] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh my god.

[0:49] Robin Lord Taylor: Hi, Eva. It's so great talking to you. I miss you so much.

[0:55] Eva: I miss you too.

[0:56] Robin Lord Taylor: I miss you too.

[0:57] Robin Lord Taylor: What an intro. My ears are burning.

[1:00] Eva: She's leaning.

[1:02] Eva: Well, you know, I have watched you grow up in this industry, and that's, I mean, that's a really special feeling. I, you know, you live it, so you feel it all the time. But I imagine and I hope that you've gotten this feedback from people who've known you since your start. And I mean, I'll be honest, you have always delighted me to no end in person, and yet on the television, you have scared me to no end.

[1:33] Robin Lord Taylor: Yes.

[1:35] Robin Lord Taylor: And on the podcast, I'm gonna freak you the fuck out.

[1:40] Eva: I have a feeling you might.

[1:42] Eva: So the gamut of roles and beings that you have also lived, you know, both from your portrayals and who you are also are fascinating. And because, you know, one of the things I think about with you is really your activism too and your deep-seated beliefs and doing what's good. So as I start every episode, knowing all of that, how are you doing right now?

[1:56] Robin Lord Taylor: I'm doing all right, all things considered. You know, it's like this whole year has been, it's a new normal and it's like, you know, allowing a lot, you know, time for self-care and also just like, you know, reconnecting with and really finding what the most important things are, what the most important things are to me in my life and, you know, fostering those connections with the people who are also really important now that we also can't spend the kind of time with them as we used to. And I'm sure you know, you know, and also as a New Yorker, you know, as someone who works on Broadway and creates theater, you know, it's like I think like we're all just collectively in this state of shock slash mourning of losing that.

I mean, that's why I live here. I live here for live performances. I live here for theater. I live here like, you know, that's just such a part of being a New Yorker, especially one like, you know, if you're like us and you live in the arts, you know. So yeah, I don't know, but all that considered, you know, like I'm hopeful and I'm just trying to keep a positive outlook.

[3:19] Eva: Yeah.

[3:20] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah.

[3:21] Eva: Yeah.

[3:21] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, I call it New York is New York being not New York, and that's the complex relationship I'm having right now with my city because I love it and it's so important to me, but it's not my city as I have lived it and known it for 20 years.

[3:37] Eva: Yeah.

[3:38] Robin Lord Taylor: And that's, you know, sort of reckoning with both my desire to flee and my commitment to it. It's a complicated relationship I'm having right now.

[3:48] Eva: It just really is.

[3:50] Eva: How long have you lived in New York?

[3:54] Robin Lord Taylor: 2000.

[3:55] Eva: Oh my god, we're the same.

[3:57] Robin Lord Taylor: This is our 20th year.

[3:59] Eva: It's our 20th year.

[4:00] Robin Lord Taylor: What a year, huh?

[4:02] Eva: I know. What a 20.

[4:04] Robin Lord Taylor: But a 20. I mean, shit, yeah. Being here 20 years and then just like thinking of all the stuff we've been doing in these 20 years.

[4:11] Eva: Yeah.

[4:12] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah.

[4:12] Eva: Yeah.

[4:12] Robin Lord Taylor: Um, so, you know, there was, I was actually going through some drawers recently, and I came across a little map for the Rainbow Railroad, which had been given to me by your husband at one point as a gift, because I am a big lover of Fire Island. And it was sort of in connection with that. And I literally came across this like two days ago, which is so weird. And I think it's still something active and vital that needs attention. But I'm curious if you could just sort of update me on where things are at with your work with it and how it's functioning now and everything.

[4:50] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, thanks, yeah, for bringing that up. Yeah. So Rainbow Railroad is an organization where, for those who don't know, it's an organization that finds people all around the world, specifically in countries where it is illegal to be homosexual or just illegal to be LGBTQIA+. And so this organization finds those people and helps relocate them to safe countries, such as Canada, the United States, unfortunately not so much in these last four years. But yeah, and it's just an amazing group of people and the things that they're doing are so prescient right now, especially again with, you know, immigration and like, you know, helping people find safe places where they can live their lives freely and openly.

And yeah, yes, my husband Dickie, he created on Fire Island the great gay garden tour in support of Rainbow Railroad, and it's a little map and it like, as you know in Fire Island, you know, gardening is the thing. Like people treat their gardens like, you know, it's an expression and you know, it's such a beautiful place too. And so my husband and I sort of like compiled all of the prettiest gardens and like created a little tour, walking tour that people can take. And yeah, and so, you know, obviously in this last year that kind of has changed, you know, we didn't go out to Fire Island this year unfortunately, but you know, we're still working with Rainbow Railroad and Dickie's doing a lot of work with them, you know, just in terms of like, you know, helping create more, I just really getting the word out if it's on, you know, social media or other, you know, just creating, just spreading the word of Rainbow Railroad and what they're doing.

[6:36] Eva: Yeah, it's been really fulfilling.

[6:39] Eva: And it is, am I right? Like you talked at the start of this conversation, you're finding other ways to fulfill yourself. You're finding a new normal for how you are being in the world is activism and impact work. What's scratching your itch for what would normally be fulfilled by your work as an actor?

[7:00] Robin Lord Taylor: It's true. Yeah, definitely. But it's also like, it's sort of been that way, like, you know, when you're a struggling actor, like just trying to break through, that's so much of the focus of my life. And that was the focus of my life for, you know, fourteen years. And then Gotham happened and all of a sudden it was like, it's the classic role where it just I broke my career right open, and then like, you know, it was a new stage. And like, and now like, you know, since I now have a little bit of more of a platform, like I really want to use it for what's right. And yeah, activism is, you know, especially in this last year, has been, yeah, definitely, you know, a real focus of mine. But you know, I was talking, I was actually talking to Dickie last night about this, and you know, it seems daunting at first, but you know, I've also realized, especially with, you know, the election coming up and you know, all of the things that we're trying to do to help people get out the votes and, you know, just being as active and involved as I can be.

I realized, you know, I guess I realized last night we were talking, like, you know, that can never go away now. This is the new, you know what I mean? It's not like I can like suddenly get to a point and be like, okay, well, I don't have to fight as hard now. No, in two years, when it's the next election cycle, it's gotta be just this and more. It has to be more every single time. And again, like that seems daunting, but you know, I think of the alternative is like, I just don't know how I could really live with myself if I weren't like really pushing for these things as hard as I have been in this last year. So yeah.

[8:41] Eva: Yeah.

[8:42] Eva: It's actually kind of incredible because I think about other countries. And let's talk about 20 years ago when you and I first came to New York. We could vote and we had both lived in New York when this city suffered a major trauma with 9/11, and then this country went into the Iraq War. You know, we started, we lost our innocence. The country and the politics of our country began to change, and nothing was ever the same. Yet around the world, you had countries where the presidential elections really, really mattered because it was the difference between life and death, right? For people who were serving in the Israeli army at 18, or people who were dealing with communism falling or not falling in various countries.

And you're absolutely right. It's like in the 90s, there was some version of America when which it was like Bob Dole or Bill Clinton. Are they that different? You know, how different will America be? Well, here's what we've now learned. America will be very different, very different from yourself and your children, depending on who's actually in Washington voting on laws. And the fight is now more serious than ever and will continue to be as long as we are in such a divided nation built with people coming from such different backgrounds and ethical choices. So you're right. It's like we will only be pressing down on the gas more as we get older and as we continue, because the activism is so dire and necessary in a way that I don't remember it being like that 20 years ago when we absolutely, I mean, and you know, yeah, we were very lucky to have that experience, not thinking about this constantly.

But I think also like what we've learned like over the summer, like with Black Lives Matter and the Civil Rights Movement of our time, is that like I've learned that my complacency directly affects people's lives, and I cannot afford that anymore. And you know, like that is my mission is to never be complacent again. Because, you know, even if things are fine for me, I'm very fortunate in many ways, and you know, they're not fine for everybody.

[11:03] Eva: Let's rewind.

[11:04] Eva: Yeah.

[11:04] Eva: Let's go back to your real beginnings. Like we're talking pre-Turkey Sandwich and other things that I observed. But your first show that you ever saw, what was it? Where were you? Tell us about it.

[11:20] Robin Lord Taylor: Okay, well, I'm gonna, I'll can I give a little bit of backstory with this?

[11:23] Eva: Please.

[11:24] Robin Lord Taylor: Um, it was, I think it was 1987. And my family got their first CD player. We got our first like CD boombox player thing.

[11:35] Robin Lord Taylor: You were ahead of things if you had a CD player in '87, dude. Well, yeah, you know, I feel yeah, it was a good year. And my mom went and she bought our first CDs, and I believe it was like Fleetwood Mac, "Tango in the Night," both Whitney Houston, her first albums, and then it was also the "A Chorus Line" soundtrack. And you know, we grew up with musicals, and I guess I was nine years old at that point. I'd seen "Mary Poppins" and all the Disney stuff that was out at that time, and also "Sound of Music" and "Rodgers and Hammerstein," you know, that was all in our house, but I had never heard an adult musical. I had never heard something that was strictly about adults and what they deal with.

And at nine years old, I put on "A Chorus Line," and it fucking changed my life. Because it was also, you know, it's "A Chorus Line." It's performers singing about why they're doing what they're doing and singing about growing up and childhood and like, you know, all this stuff, but it just—and also tits and ass and the whole thing. You know, I was just like, whoa. And so coincidentally, I spent that entire summer listening to this soundtrack. And then that winter, I believe, was the "A Chorus Line" touring company came through Cedar Rapids. So we went to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, which is right by where I grew up. That old tour stop of Cedar Rapids. Cedar Rapids, Iowa, you know, the Paramount Theater, very beautiful old theater in downtown Cedar Rapids. And I saw it, and you know, it just changed my life. Then we bought the VHS tape of the movie, which I stand by that movie. I don't care. I know people hate it, but like that movie.

[12:31] Eva: I like it too.

[12:32] Robin Lord Taylor: I like it too. It's so of its time. It's amazing.

[12:34] Eva: But different, right?

[13:29] Robin Lord Taylor: A little frustrating when the lyric changes from what you remember from your—

[13:29] Eva: Yes, and then there's that whole other, yeah, like in the movie, there's that surprise. Like they don't do "Hello 12, Hello 13, Hello Love." Instead, they do this like surprise, which is about like, you know, going through puberty, and you know, like it's like I'm like more—

[13:50] Robin Lord Taylor: No, it was a little, yeah, jarring, I would say.

[13:54] Eva: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I too grew up on the sound, like learning and loving the soundtrack first, the cast album first.

[13:54] Robin Lord Taylor: Yes.

[14:02] Eva: And then seeing the show, and sometimes being confused by why the lyric that I had in my head from the cast album was different than what I was seeing on stage or worse, I had my mom buy me the London cast album rather than the Broadway.

[14:22] Robin Lord Taylor: And so I was so I was lit I had been listening or the movie soundtrack, which aren't even called cast albums. So I had so I got used to the wrong version of the show until I saw it. That was always a bit of a journey.

[14:22] Eva: It's so true.

[14:37] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, you had to be sure like with us then. Well, shortly after that, we got the "Evita" soundtrack, and I was like, "Mom, I need the Patti LuPone version. I do not want the English version."

[14:48] Eva: I don't like it.

[14:50] Robin Lord Taylor: Patti LuPone, oh, I love that. And also the other thing too, I think—I don't know if you remember, but yeah, like, well at least the version that we had, I think it was the original Broadway recording, except they cut like 10 minutes out of "Hello 12, Hello 13, Hello Love." And so like—and I didn't know this until like, yeah, like until well I guess when I saw it, but then I saw it again years later, and I was like, "Oh my God, yeah, this song is like five times as long as it was when I was listening to it."

[14:50] Eva: Yeah.

[15:19] Robin Lord Taylor: First show you were in, what was the first show I was in was "Cinderella," Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Cinderella." And I was very lucky because I was in seventh grade, and I was allowed to join and be a chorus member in the high school production of "Cinderella."

[15:19] Eva: Really?

[15:39] Robin Lord Taylor: Excuse me. Big deal. Granted, we're talking about Solon High School in Solon, Iowa. Public school, but my graduating class was like 75 people. So it's, you know, it's like—and it's also like "Friday Night Lights." So it's not like there are not a lot of musical theater kids coming up there. And also they brought—well, so anyway, I'll say like I played the character of like I played like a townsperson, and there's that big like the prince is giving a ball song, you know, where it's like they're running around town, and then he's like listing all these names, and then it's in the original TV production with Leslie Ann Warren, like this little kid like pokes out, and he like—I forget what the character is, but he's like the town caller, or he like works for the palace or whatever, and he's like listing the names, and then he says "Maisie," and then this kid like pokes his head out and he goes, "Maisie." That was my line, and that was you, and that was me. That was me in seventh grade before puberty. Really, it was "Maisie," yeah.

[16:51] Eva: I don't remember the—I mean, I don't know "Cinderella" that well, I don't think, but I don't remember a character, "Maisie," that needed to be called out.

[16:59] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, I don't remember it too well, so I don't want to misspeak, but I did do a little research before we taped this, and I was like I did like a YouTube search, and I was scrolling through like the whole "Cinderella" with Brandy and Whitney and Bernadette Peters, it's all on YouTube. So I was like perfect. And so I was scrolling through, they gave that line to Bernadette. Oh, "Maisie" in her voice, you know, and I was like, man, I was like, where did my part go? But if you're gonna give it, give it to Bernadette.

[17:54] Eva: I mean, come on.

[17:55] Robin Lord Taylor: It's true. Sometimes she can sound like a pre-pubescent boy.

[18:00] Eva: She can. I mean, I think she tries to do anything.

[18:03] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, to do anything.

[18:05] Eva: She does for a laugh.

[18:08] Robin Lord Taylor: And so just drilling down to this casting success story, did someone put you up for this? Were you like hungry for roles? Like what actually brought you to the audition to get that role?

[18:25] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was excited about theater. My family, my parents were both actuaries, and so they're very smart math people, not performers, but there's a lot of music in my family and a lot of the—like, and so—and my little sister, she was, you know, always a performer. She had a great voice, and so she, younger than I was, was, you know, auditioning in the community theater stuff in Cedar Rapids, and so she was involved in that stuff too, and I knew that it was something that I was interested in as well. So yeah, when I got to junior high school, we obviously nothing was happening like that was happening in elementary school, but in junior high, I was like, "Oh, I can actually be, you know, in productions," which was so awesome.

And I've like said this, I always think of it too, like, you know, not obvious not in seventh grade, but as I did more theater throughout high school, it was also always like, you know, I was closeted, and you know, like it was sort of in like a town where, you know, in the mid-90s, you know, it wasn't very acceptable. You know, and it's also again, like I said before, it was like, you know, it's very sports-centric, you know, town.

[19:54] Eva: And you were saying you were like you were out to yourself at that point.

[19:59] Robin Lord Taylor: I more or less, like I kind of knew. I mean, I think I was in denial in some ways, but I pretty much knew, especially later in high school, and then I always sort of thought of it like, you know, it was a way to put myself out there and to like sort of express myself, but also hide, you know what I mean? Like, I spent a lot of time in high school like hiding just out of fear of my own personal safety. You know, so it was like I felt I—it, yeah, like I discovered theater as a way to express myself, but to do it where, you know, and still be hiding at the same time, if that makes any sense.

[20:36] Eva: Makes a million times sense. It's actually the most clearly depicted and sensible thing I've heard in a long time. It is what theater is there for, to become something else, to get lost in, to express yourself via some character or emotional trait, or to just be around like-minded people that make you feel a little more alive.

[20:46] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, and that's—yeah, you're so right. I'm so glad you said that too, because that was also just such a huge part of it, is just to have like this something all of my friends were into too, and you know, it was just I finally had like a group of friends that, you know, were intellectually challenging and like supportive and loving and expressing themselves. You know, it was just really super important to me.

[21:25] Eva: Back then did you have a role model for coming out and for the type of man that you wanted to grow up into either as an actor or as a gay person?

[21:38] Robin Lord Taylor: I'm trying to think, like I really didn't. Like not in so many ways. Like it's not like when I was that age I was thinking, "Oh, I really want to be like this person," because again, you know, we're talking like 1994, 95, 96, like there really weren't any like out, you know, gay—I mean there were out gay people, but it wasn't as prevalent, and it was also like a much smaller range of what being gay was, what you know, what that looked like was, you know, again very limited back then.

[22:13] Eva: Yeah.

[22:13] Robin Lord Taylor: But I do—but you know, back then for me it was like I just need to get to college. I was like to college, and I went to Northwestern in Chicago, so it was like a big city, and I was like once I get there, I will be able to find all of these things. And yeah, and that's where all of that really happened.

[22:34] Eva: Yeah.

[22:34] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah.

[22:35] Eva: No, that makes sense. I'm not sure people—I'm not sure the general public knew Nathan Lane was gay in '94 and '95.

[22:43] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, I think I was—well, I yeah, I think that was a thing where like he unfortunately, you know, at the height of his career was, you know, in so many—I mean he was forced to stay, you know, to be in the closet. And it's just such a different—Rosie O'Donnell, you know, it's like all those people back then had to do that. And so it was just such a different, you know, just such a different way of looking at things than it is now.

[23:07] Robin Lord Taylor: Absolutely. And thank God it's changed. Thank God.

[23:11] Robin Lord Taylor: First professional show. Okay. This is like one of my favorite things to talk about. Because I was, well, as we know, I moved to New York in two thousand. And I was in a show called Schmozy Togetherness.

[23:26] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh no. Which was written by our friends Sam Foreman did the lyrics and Eli Bolin did the music. And it was a children's show. It was about like 45 minutes long to an hour at Manhattan Theater Source down in the West Village, which is no longer there, I believe. And yeah, we performed on the weekend mornings. Billy Eichner was in the cast along with our friend Diane Davis. It was just all of these Northwestern friends. It was like our first show that we did together in New York and Christian Shaw played the title role of Schmozy. She played Schmoozy, and it was about a little girl who gets lost in this land of grammar and words. Like, as you know, Sam Foreman, he's such a genius wordsmith, like words are his currency. And so it was all about that very Phantom Tollbooth kind of story. And yeah, I played Phineas T. Happenstance was my character's name, and it was fantastic.

[24:44] Robin Lord Taylor: We also called it Shmozy Hungoverness because it was like 10 o'clock in the morning on a Sunday, and it was again the first year that we all moved to New York. Oh my god. I'll never forget we were also performing, it was in the fall, and so like it was Halloween, and we had like a Halloween show, and Billy Eichner walked right up to a little girl in the audience, and he had like a skull in his hand, and he goes, "Ooh," and the girl freaked out. This little girl started screaming. It was so funny. I'm like, "Oh my god, I love it." The creator of the John Mulaney Sack Lunch Bunch, and a Radar House of Cards, and you know, that Billy, Billy Eichner of Billy on the Street and so many other things of fame. It was really and Robin Lord Taylor. I love in Schmoozy Togetherness.

[25:44] Robin Lord Taylor: I mean, that was, it's one of my favorite titles too, because it was also like, I mean, that's sort of that's how we were living then, you know. Like we all like, you know, what's all we would do is just hang out and schmooze. Well, um, I think it's time for a revival of Schmoozy Togetherness.

[25:59] Robin Lord Taylor: I'm down. I am down, and it's, I stand by that show. That show is clever as hell, and yeah. I would like to do it a little bit later on Sunday morning if that's possible.

[26:08] Eva: You were a very entrepreneurial theater maker back then, because you also, another thing I watched you create was, co-create was and star in was Creation Nation, which was a show that you starred in with Billy Eichner, which I think parlayed to his Billy on the Street series, because it had a similar ethos of him interviewing people. So how does one become a theater entrepreneur when they can just create their own shows and make them happen?

[26:45] Robin Lord Taylor: It really helps when your best friend and roommate is a comedic genius. Like, that's how you start. So if y'all, you know, that's the key. Like you just find a comedic genius and force them to be your best friend and roommate, and good shit will happen.

[27:05] Robin Lord Taylor: Um, yeah, I know it was just, yeah, it was like Billy and I were, you know, again, it was 2003, I believe, and we were living together in Chelsea, and you know, I was like knocking around. I'd done a couple commercials at that point, and I'd done, you know, some theater stuff around town, but nothing, you know, crazy. And you know, there's such so much downtime, especially when you're like trying to start a career in this business, you know, at the beginning, you know, it's just like trying anything. And Billy, it was start started with Billy. Billy was just like, "Let's just do something, let's make something." And like, and you know, Billy has such a brilliant, but you know, keen sense of humor.

[27:50] Robin Lord Taylor: And yeah, we just sort of like, you know, he like, yeah, we just we that's what we did. We were like, "Let's put on a show." And we sort of developed these characters that were not us, they were truly honest, different characters from us, but also not us.

[28:13] Robin Lord Taylor: It was like taking us and like exaggerating it and, you know, making it like, you know, these characters if Robin and Billy were more or less self-aware than they are and less socially conscious in some ways, you know what I mean? Like it was like taking, like it's like just making these characters very extreme so that we could show, you know, show certain aspects of the entertainment industry specifically through these characters and their choices, like yeah, very side of the case. And also just yeah, exactly. It was us, but not us at all, if that makes sense.

[29:01] Eva: Yeah, yeah.

[29:01] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, yeah. No, it and I came to many a show and you did, and we also I believe that was how we met. Like that was our connection. We went to Edinburgh at the same time.

[29:12] Eva: That's where we had the turkey sandwich.

[29:13] Robin Lord Taylor: Really had the turkey sandwiches. It was like two o'clock in the morning, right? I mean that trip was such a, we spent a month there, and it was such a blur. Like I just remember rain, and I remember the Madonna album Hard Candy came out, and I was just listening to Madonna and walking around in the rain for a month.

[29:34] Eva: And weren't you hanging out with Joan Rivers? Or is that a different trip?

[29:37] Robin Lord Taylor: Yes, that was. Joan had a show there as well. And Joan had been a guest on Creation Nation, and Joan was one of the most kind, supportive people I had ever met of that stature, you know, ever. And she was so generous to Billy. She loved Billy so much and loved his sense of humor, and she was such an advocate for him. And she like, you know, passed the videos around to people. She just, you know, she was such an amazing force in Billy and my life at that time. And so like, yeah, she's amazing.

[30:17] Robin Lord Taylor: And so yeah, she guested on our show in Edinburgh as well as in New York a couple times, and like she just was so down to earth and cool and just so kind. I uh, it surprises people when I say that, but yeah, she was really one of the kindest people in the industry.

[30:37] Eva: I've heard that.

[30:38] Robin Lord Taylor: I've heard that from a lot of people, actually. Really, really amazing. And like, yeah, she just, you know, and I, you know, again, she did Creation Nation, Billy, it really was it Billy was the star of that show, and I was there to, you know, that was, you know, like an Edmitt Man. You know, Andy, yeah, psychic. And um, and like, and so I had met like Joan a couple times just in that context.

[31:04] Robin Lord Taylor: Um, but like, yeah, so she just was had such a crazy effect on me. Like, I I'm so, I yeah, I was just devastated when we lost her.

[31:15] Eva: Yeah, for sure.

[31:17] Robin Lord Taylor: Had the, because you had a professional sidekick-like gig as well, if I'm not mistaken, on the Late Show with Dave Letterman.

[31:27] Robin Lord Taylor: I did.

[31:28] Eva: And did I have, did that come from Creation Nation in some way?

[31:32] Robin Lord Taylor: That was a total random audition that I was sent out on, and I booked it. And it was, yeah, I played Daryl, the Late Show page with a fake British accent.

[31:44] Robin Lord Taylor: Which I guess was a bit that Dave did back when he was on NBC before this. Because yeah, I was on the show when he was on, obviously at CBS. And yeah, and so it's just like this page comes out and like talks like this, with the fuck, you know, it's like I ate some chips and took a lift to the flat, and you know, but it's super exaggerated and stupid.

[32:08] Robin Lord Taylor: And then I just like tell, you know, I call Dave like a tossa and then like swimming like that. Every bad British accented word, every bad British, um I called him Dive, like D-I-V-E. It was yeah, it was so silly.

[32:28] Robin Lord Taylor: But yeah, I got to do that twice. I went three times, and it was the kind of thing where they put it in the show if there was time. And so the first time I went, there was time, so I made it to the show, which was awesome.

[32:39] Robin Lord Taylor: And then the second time I think I was like sort of waiting around, and then they cut my bit, and then they brought me back like a couple months later, maybe a year later, to do it again, and that was my last time because it was like there was some sports thing happening, and like the World Series or something.

[32:55] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, it was like a World Series or something. I don't know. And so like I believe it was Dave, like had gone, I like I was given the script, and so I learned it up and down, left and right. I knew what I was gonna do, and then about 20 minutes before we go to tape, I get rewrites, and I think it was from Dave himself, like about like sports, and it just knocked me off my game, and I don't know.

[33:18] Robin Lord Taylor: Like, I like my legs were like sh- my I was like wearing these like baggy khakis, so you can't really tell, but like inside the pant legs, my knees were like shaking so hard I was like vibrating. It was so scary because you're talking and it's like not even a bit. It's not like a bit that I'm having with, you know, right with anyone else like Alan or, you know, it was like a bit with Dave like looking at him across the stage like crazy about sports no less. Why could it be about musicals? I mean, of course, and then they never had me back.

[33:18] Eva: No, yeah, I love it. From Schmoozy to Daryl to Schmoozy to Daryl, yes. What a gamble in those early years.

[33:18] Robin Lord Taylor: All right, it's dream time. It's where you tell me if you could be in any show anywhere at any time, what would it be?

[33:18] Robin Lord Taylor: I mean, it would, I'm sure you've gotten this before, but it would be Angels in America. It's like that also like that was very influential on me too because it came out as I was like, you know, about to graduate from high school and I like the story too. I'll like I did theater camp when I was in high school obviously and yeah, over the summer and so the summer between my, between after graduating from high school before I went to Northwestern, I did theater camp at the University of Iowa and yeah, and so we did like the fine, you know, it's like a couple weeks and then like at the end you do like a scene study and you do a scene and you invite everybody to come and watch.

[35:04] Robin Lord Taylor: And uh our our teacher, um you know, she I think she saw, you know, who what kind of person I was gonna grow up to be, and she gave me the uh she gave me an uh this other girl um the uh Harper and Joe scene. It's uh the I burn dinner scene. Yeah, and uh, you know, and it was just like and I performed it in front of my mom and my sister, and it was the first time where I felt that um I felt that visceral connection between myself and the work, if that makes any sense. Like I had done like plays, but it but this hit differently. It would just it yeah, it it rocked my world, and like, you know, and again, it was like and I like I said before, like this was like the summer before I was like this when I was gunning for it, you know.

I was like, once I get to Northwestern, I'm gonna come out of the closet, I'm gonna live my life, I'm gonna have a boyfriend, you know, and this is like the summer right before that, and yet that brilliant teacher, wherever she may be, thank you, because she gave me this scene, and I had never read Angels before, and so of course, you know, it just it just cracked the whole, yeah. It just made made like I was like, this is this is what I'm meant to be doing, you know, like this this feels right, and yeah, amazing. So yeah, and I would play any role I would I would love to play prior, Joe, uh Roy, any of them.

[36:35] Eva: I mean it's you'd be great, you'd be a great prior, actually.

[36:40] Robin Lord Taylor: That's such that's like one of the nicest things anyone can say to me, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, you have it in you, and it that I mean that's why I I made that joke uh when we started about how your TV roles have scared me. So, you know, with with with Will Bettelheim, I mean I I'm oh yeah with you and and certainly Oswald Cobble Pot and you know it's but if you know you you're just you're you're there's so much depth and beauty and pain and realness and authenticity and um so you know I I can see you as prior and and and and we we have to talk about we have to talk about Oswald just for a minute you know that journey which which obviously really put you on the map and made your career did you find in developing the character in in in growing up you know over the over the seasons in that role did you pull from any particular roles from earlier in your life or inspirations or um uh you know mentors or anything I I would love to say that like one of my biggest inspirations for the character would be Sally Field's performance as Celeste Talbot in Soapdish.

I don't know if you've seen Soapdish in a while but Sally Field is such a huge influence on my acting and like there's so many like when Oswald would get like really mad and snap at people like I was just I I could feel myself channeling Sally Field in those moments. So it sounds so silly to say that but yeah like that was definitely definitely a huge influence on me.

[38:22] Robin Lord Taylor: But but you but more than that also um I really um I was also hugely influenced by uh Heath Ledger because I like that Heath Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker Heath Ledger's uh role in the in in in the Batman movie was um was so influential to me only because it was the first time that I'd really seen you know a care like a true arch villain but with us underneath all of that uh all of that uh like anger and violence um was a damaged human like there there there's some there's empathy there's some there's something deep down in there that if things had gone differently this person would be would this this person very well wouldn't be a villain would it be the evil person and so seeing that performance and then and then when I got cast as as as the penguin I was like I really really want to bring that to this character as well because that's something that you can sustain and also sustain like a connection to the audience it's really hard to sustain especially over five years like an evil character that is just e you know it's just purely bad you know what I mean like there like what's what's interesting to me is finding the human being especially like in a comic book world or in a fantastic world like finding a real human being underneath there and and also like finding like I I do believe that you know everyone is innately good.

Um so I really wanted to bring that to light with him and just you know make a sympathetic like anti hero you know like and and yeah and it was it was definitely Heath Ledger's performance that influenced me into that.

[40:13] Eva: That's amazing.

[40:14] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah and you did that you did all of that with that role. There is a surprise section of the show, which we don't tell our guests about, which is a lightning round.

[40:24] Eva: Okay.

[40:25] Robin Lord Taylor: And because from a scale of one to ten, you are a musical aficionado of an eight. We're gonna go with the what show are these lyrics from.

[40:35] Eva: Oh god.

[40:36] Robin Lord Taylor: Okay. All right, all right, okay. You know, lyrics are the most emotionally impactful piece of musicals. And so because this is all about nostalgia and emotionality uh with shows, we're gonna we're gonna touch upon the the most emoting ones. And right, Eva. I mean, you and I are contemporaries. Like when you got this original soundtrack, CD, sometimes it was that double C D case, you know, and then it had that thick book like right in the middle. That every lyric is that was the first thing you did was open that up and start singing along.

[41:08] Eva: I mean, that's of course, yeah. That was like my entire childhood.

[41:11] Robin Lord Taylor: That was my entire childhood. Spent a lot of time alone listening to show t.

[41:17] Eva: Yops.

[41:18] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh gosh. All right, 30 seconds on the clock. Well, someone tell me when is it my turn? Don't I get a dream for myself? Myself. Uh yeah, it's gonna be my turn. It's gotta be my turn. Get a roll, get off my runway. Um uh Rose's turn from Chips.

[41:34] Eva: What show?

[41:34] Robin Lord Taylor: Yes, Gypsy.

[41:35] Eva: Yes, somebody crowd me with love. Somebody for me. Somebody let me come to the show. Someone, yeah.

[41:46] Robin Lord Taylor: Uh uh being alive company.

[41:48] Eva: Yes, yes. I am unworthy of your love. I am unworthy of your love.

[41:55] Robin Lord Taylor: Shirley Darling, that would be Assassins.

[41:59] Eva: Thank you. Everybody loves a winner.

[42:02] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh, go ahead. Wait, Assassins, uh, is it I I am unworthy of Your Love? Is that the first one?

[42:06] Eva: Yeah, you just need to show.

[42:08] Robin Lord Taylor: Yeah, unworthy of your love.

[42:09] Eva: Oh, okay, good. But the show is all you need.

[42:11] Robin Lord Taylor: Okay. Everybody loves a winner, so nobody loves me.

[42:15] Eva: Lady Peace.

[42:18] Robin Lord Taylor: Lady Happy.

[42:19] Eva: Lady Happy.

[42:21] Robin Lord Taylor: Um wait, no.

[42:24] Eva: That's what I want to say. It's cabaret.

[42:26] Robin Lord Taylor: Yes.

[42:26] Eva: Um you're getting extra credit.

[42:34] Robin Lord Taylor: You win. You win. You said you got that's it. We're out of time. You got every lyric. Nothing from promises, promises. Nothing from uh a little night music. I mean, even I mean, how much Sunheim can I do in one in one section of one podcast? I mean, I obviously have a little night music here. He's been posting on Instagram. I don't know if you've seen this. Like, if you don't follow Steven Sonheim, anyone out there, well, get on there. It's on Instagram. He it's the most wholesome thing.

[43:03] Eva: Yeah.

[43:08] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh, the answer to all of life's problems is in a Sonnheim lyric.

[43:13] Eva: It sincerely is.

[43:14] Robin Lord Taylor: Oh my god. I adore you, Robin.

[43:17] Eva: Lord Taylor. I love you. I'm so proud of the human you are and the artist that you are, and keep on it all.

[43:28] Robin Lord Taylor: Thank you so much, Eva. And you too. And yeah, and oh, can I give a little plug to?

[43:34] Eva: Please.

[43:35] Robin Lord Taylor: Um, I want to give a plug to be an artsher.org. It's uh it's a foundation where um yeah, they're helping lobby for all of us or all of us out there who can't go back to work because of the shuttering of Broadway or the closing of musical of music venues. Um, be an artshero.org. If you guys check that out, that would be awesome.

[43:57] Eva: Hello, Twell.

[43:59] Robin Lord Taylor: Hello 30.

[44:02] Eva: Hello.

[44:07] Robin Lord Taylor: Changes Oh.

[44:17] Eva: My first show is produced by Josh Altman, MEP, Dory Berenstein, and Alan Seals, and is part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[44:25] Robin Lord Taylor: This episode was edited by Derek Gunther.

[44:28] Eva: Special thanks to Leslie Papa and Whitney Holden Gore at Vivacity Media Group.

[44:33] Robin Lord Taylor: For more info about the podcast, visit VPN.fm backslash my first show.

[44:38] Eva: Follow me on Instagram at Eva RPC.

[44:42] Robin Lord Taylor: I am not certain.

[44:55] Eva: Goodbye, 13.

[44:56] Robin Lord Taylor: Hello, 12.

[44:57] Eva: Robert Gooley, Robert Gooley, my God, Robert Coolet!

[45:06] Robin Lord Taylor: I'll show you mine.

[45:07] Eva: Hello!

[45:08] Robin Lord Taylor: You can show me yours!

[45:09] Eva: Hello!

[45:09] Robin Lord Taylor: King Daddy naked!

[45:11] Eva: Time to grow!

[45:13] Robin Lord Taylor: Time to go!

[45:15] Eva: Mom and Dad were doing it.

[45:23] Robin Lord Taylor: Goodbye, 12.

[45:25] Eva: Goodbye, 13.

[45:26] Robin Lord Taylor: Hello, no!

[45:27] Eva: Why do I pay for all those lessons?

[45:30] Robin Lord Taylor: Thanks for grandma, dance for grandma!

[45:32] Eva: I got the teeth McQueens real thick.

[45:35] Robin Lord Taylor: Michael lay out, Steve McQueenie and you cannot double to the movies.

[45:46] Eva: Oh, darling, you were not old enough to wear a bra.

[45:51] Robin Lord Taylor: You got that hand to hold it up.

[46:00] Eva: When am I gonna grow, Tit?

[46:04] Robin Lord Taylor: If Troy, darling, you could