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[0:00] Michael Doherty: Hey there, this is Game Maker Michael Doherty. We are off this week, but we will be back at you next Monday with a brand new episode. In the meantime, I wanted to give you a taste of our Patreon exclusive Shoot the Loot. In it, co-producer Alex Keiper and I take a deep dive into the most recent episode and give you a glimpse behind the scenes of how it all sort of comes together. If that sounds fun to you, keep on listening and consider joining our Patreon by going to patreon.com slash mythic thunderlute. If not, we'll catch you next week for episode four, the trial of the Boorstead 5. With that, here shoot the loot episode 3, a look inside Gods of Old.

[1:00] Alex Keiper: Hello and welcome to Shoot the Loot, the show where we talk all things Mythic Thunderlute. That's right. My name is Alex Keiper. I am a co-producer of Mythic Thunderlute.

[1:09] Michael Doherty: My name is Michael Doherty. I am the game maker and editor of Mythic Thunderlute.

[1:15] Alex Keiper: And we are thrilled to be back with you for episode three of Shoot the Loot, where we are gonna talk about episode three of Mythic Thunderlute, Gods of Old.

[1:22] Michael Doherty: Yes indeed. I'd like to do an apology, a big big apology. It's really big. Okay. So on Instagram.

[1:29] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[1:33] Michael Doherty: I posted about us talking about Gods of Old today.

[1:33] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[1:37] Michael Doherty: And I wrote that we were gonna talk about the gods of old.

[1:42] Alex Keiper: Well, I'll tell you why you made that error.

[1:44] Michael Doherty: Why?

[1:44] Alex Keiper: It's because in the credits for episode two, I do refer to it as the gods of old.

[1:51] Michael Doherty: Because I was going back and forth on the title, but I ultimately decided to go with Gods of Old because I liked it. I liked the sound of it better, and I felt like it gave less away. Like gods of old could be about like being in the old country of Kar Katara. Whereas the Gods of Old feels like we are about to meet the gods of old, you know.

[2:10] Alex Keiper: Interesting.

[2:11] Michael Doherty: That was my logic anyway.

[2:12] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that.

[2:13] Michael Doherty: I don't think anyone will care or notice.

[2:15] Alex Keiper: I also don't think that's why I did it. Because I don't think I paid any attention.

[2:20] Michael Doherty: I'm giving you way too much credit.

[2:22] Alex Keiper: Way too much credit. Your attention to detail.

[2:26] Michael Doherty: It's amazing. I love doing Shoot the Loot with you, Alex.

[2:27] Alex Keiper: I love doing Shoot the Loot with you. It's because A, I love talking with you.

[2:34] Michael Doherty: Yes.

[2:34] Alex Keiper: B, we have zero viewers on Twitch. So there's like an absurd freedom in that.

[2:39] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[2:41] Alex Keiper: Yeah, because at this juncture, we truly don't know if anyone will tune into Twitch or if anyone will ever listen to this audio on Patreon. So it feels like a real blank palette.

[2:51] Michael Doherty: Yeah, oh yeah.

[2:52] Alex Keiper: Oh, wait, wait. I'm here, says Selena Knight.

[2:55] Michael Doherty: Hi, Selena.

[2:56] Alex Keiper: Selena Knight. Thanks for being here. I'm so glad we're going to be able to do it.

[2:59] Michael Doherty: Okay, we're gonna go. We're no longer speaking into the void.

[3:02] Alex Keiper: We are so grateful. This is no longer a weird existential, waiting for Godot-esque semi-podcast.

[3:09] Michael Doherty: Well, thank you for joining us, Selena. And thank you to whomever else is listening on Patreon. Whether you're listening on Patreon or you eventually join us on Twitch, uh or this uh actually now this episode is going to be the only Shoot the Loot release for our public viewers.

[3:24] Alex Keiper: This is true.

[3:25] Michael Doherty: So uh actually a lot of people are gonna hear this.

[3:28] Alex Keiper: Yeah, you're right. This is the least screaming into the void it will ever be.

[3:34] Michael Doherty: But it's nice. I think we should still give it that same energy and love as though we're just as though we're just dancing by ourselves.

[3:40] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and you know, when aliens in uh 2,000 years discover this audio to try and puzzle together what the human race once was.

[3:49] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah.

[3:49] Alex Keiper: They'll learn a lot.

[3:51] Michael Doherty: Much.

[3:52] Alex Keiper: Sure, much.

[3:53] Michael Doherty: Anyway, so here we are. Uh we are here to talk about Mythic Thunderlute episode three, Gods of Old. Now, as we start with every Shoot the Loot, we begin by talking about the questions that we have received from the past uh couple weeks of different people that we've talked to or different people who have sent in questions from our new and growing fan base, uh, which has been so exciting.

[4:16] Alex Keiper: It's been very exciting.

[4:16] Michael Doherty: We just hit over a thousand total listens on our anchor page, which tracks all of the listens on any podcast streaming service. Endlessly exciting and just reached over 300 listens in one week for this week, which is an off week. We didn't even release an episode this week. Remarkable.

[4:33] Alex Keiper: So, you know, we're really thank you. We're really blowing up. All of our listeners out there. All 300 of you. Thank you so much. We're truly humbled.

[4:39] Michael Doherty: We are. Truly amazed.

[4:43] Alex Keiper: Uh so we have a single solitary question, is that right?

[4:46] Michael Doherty: One question this week, Selena, unless you have one you want to send to us. Selena, feel free to drop it in the chat.

[4:51] Alex Keiper: And we are ready to answer. Ready for whatever. Uh but for our first question, and maybe only question, uh, it was from our dear friend Dan O'Neill, uh, who was wondering, and asked just asked Mike just now uh whether or not he has been able to prepare for every single situation that we hear on the show.

[5:10] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[5:10] Alex Keiper: Or how much of that ends up being something that they choose that Mike is not ready for or Mike has not prepared for.

[5:17] Michael Doherty: Yeah, essentially, how much am I improvising on my end as DM? Um, which is a great question.

[5:22] Alex Keiper: Great question.

[5:23] Michael Doherty: And thank you, Dan. To answer that question, uh, I would say, like uh a vast majority of what you hear, I would say 60 to 80% is not improvised. I have uh an answer ready should they choose something along these lines. Like I'm basically able to predict the follow-up questions and the choices of our players to a certain extent.

[5:45] Alex Keiper: However, there have been some notable exceptions.

[5:48] Michael Doherty: Notable exceptions. Um firstly, in episode two, once Edgar disguised himself as King Cyrus Evadenia, I had no fucking clue he was gonna do that. And uh when he did, I I was ready for them to sneak out the back. I was ready then for them to battle the King's Guard outside of Beef Sovereign. I did not think that they were gonna use deception.

[6:10] Alex Keiper: And so the entire exchange with the King's Guard, the entire first part of the conversation with General Alvar up at the end.

[6:17] Michael Doherty: Yeah, when he stayed in the costume, when he decided like, well, this is working, and the whole team was like, you know what? I actually agree. This worked great. And you can kind of hear you can kind of hear me tipping my hand a little bit in Herman's voice when he's like, So Edgar, are you sure you're going to continue with this ruse? As like me as the game maker is just like begging this to stop so I could get back to my script.

[6:40] Alex Keiper: Um so that that really threw me for a loop.

[6:42] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[6:43] Alex Keiper: Uh I was able to weave in the backstory about the rock revolution with General Olivar and eventually out Edgar as the Fallen Prince.

[6:49] Michael Doherty: Which I was much relieved.

[6:52] Alex Keiper: Much relieved.

[6:53] Michael Doherty: The only other moment, uh moments with a parenthetical S, I guess I should say, is the Herman stuff.

[7:00] Alex Keiper: Yes.

[7:01] Michael Doherty: Uh, you know, when they he when he beat boxes, when he uh ad libs the rap, that's all just me pulling stuff out of my butt because uh he that you never know how the players are gonna utilize an MPC that's kind of there to be their guide.

[7:16] Alex Keiper: Right.

[7:17] Michael Doherty: Nor did I think that Herman was gonna be as involved as he is.

[7:20] Alex Keiper: No, Herman, I'll say that is something that was sort of uh improvised that you can initially uh decide. Herman was supposed to be the guy at the end of episode one and the beginning of episode two, who sort of like sends them to Car Qatar, gives them the necessary information so they know how to contact the gods of old.

[7:40] Michael Doherty: That Zodindra was their next sort of goalpost.

[7:42] Alex Keiper: Right.

[7:43] Michael Doherty: And it just sort of made sense as they went along that Herman stayed with them.

[7:48] Alex Keiper: Just in the world, and in fact it was logical, right?

[7:51] Michael Doherty: Because it was logical, and because Edgar implicated him so much right at the top of two.

[7:58] Alex Keiper: Right, right, right, right, right.

[7:59] Michael Doherty: So I think uh I don't think I went into that episode necessarily knowing that Herman was going to be journeying with them.

[8:05] Alex Keiper: No.

[8:06] Michael Doherty: I think I knew he was gonna guide them to some sort of pub or something. And but now his name is smeared in the town.

[8:11] Alex Keiper: Now he's gonna be in trouble.

[8:13] Michael Doherty: It was the monk that did it.

[8:15] Alex Keiper: Yeah, to get out of Doc.

[8:16] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah. So now he's he's you know, he's along for the journey.

[8:19] Alex Keiper: It's very exciting.

[8:20] Michael Doherty: Yeah, pretty great. Um yeah, and then there are definitely some more moments like that as we go along in the series.

[8:29] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, we'll we'll be noting them and Shoot the Loot as we go. Uh the other thing is if you join our Patreon at a pretty high level, what's the what's the level where they get the whole script?

[8:38] Michael Doherty: I believe that's the $20 level, Gods of the Pond.

[8:41] Alex Keiper: At the $20 level.

[8:42] Michael Doherty: Or no, the secret keepers.

[8:43] Alex Keiper: The secret keepers.

[8:45] Michael Doherty: So at the secret keepers level, you can uh get Mike's entire script, which the entire script ha that he writes beforehand, before he knows anything that they're gonna do, has every option of what they might do, of every option that he thinks he's offering them and what happens if they do that thing.

[9:03] Alex Keiper: So you can see the multiple versions of what might have happened in this story.

[9:06] Michael Doherty: Yeah, oh yeah, it's wild.

[9:10] Alex Keiper: I I might have mentioned this last time, but with episode two, it was it was extensive. Like there's a whole there's a whole subplot with the revolutionaries that uh could have uh unfolded and did not.

[9:18] Michael Doherty: Yeah, and you know, um in this episode in episode three, uh I play through the episodes with Mike before before he plays it with the team.

[9:27] Alex Keiper: Very helpful.

[9:28] Michael Doherty: So we can make sure that everything is clear and we are like tracking their emotional tracks just to see we want to take care of them and we want to take care of them.

[9:36] Alex Keiper: Yeah, make sure it's all logical.

[9:37] Michael Doherty: So yeah, we want to make sure it all works. And something that happened when I was playing episode three with him was we reached the temple and they were about to make their sacrifice, and I said, Oh god, I really hope they do just an a cappella song here. My impulse is an a cappella song. I really hope that they do an a cappella song.

[9:56] Alex Keiper: How and Mike was like, Well, they'll do whatever they want. We can't tell them what to do.

[10:00] Michael Doherty: And I was like, I know, we're not saying anything. I just really hope that that's what happens.

[10:04] Alex Keiper: Goddamn profit.

[10:05] Michael Doherty: Look, that's all I'm saying.

[10:06] Alex Keiper: Wow.

[10:07] Michael Doherty: Look.

[10:07] Alex Keiper: So cool.

[10:08] Michael Doherty: You know, I love it.

[10:09] Alex Keiper: Pretty cool.

[10:09] Michael Doherty: They did do an a cappella song, and I was really proud of myself.

[10:12] Alex Keiper: Well done.

[10:12] Michael Doherty: I started jumping up and down. Because I also watched the session silently.

[10:16] Alex Keiper: Selena Knight says it was a great song.

[10:18] Michael Doherty: Thank you, Selena. I I do truly love that one. That was that was written by Jake, and then I had the extreme pleasure of uh picking the key and writing the harms and the bass part for it.

[10:28] Alex Keiper: So it was a really, really super fun collection.

[10:31] Michael Doherty: That's one that you he you'll hear in our house pretty frequently.

[10:34] Alex Keiper: We do sing that one a lot.

[10:35] Michael Doherty: Sing a lot of these dudes a lot.

[10:36] Alex Keiper: A lot, a lot of.

[10:39] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[10:40] Alex Keiper: So yeah, I think that's our only question that we have.

[10:43] Michael Doherty: Uh if at any time we've got one new viewer.

[10:45] Alex Keiper: Oh, we got one more question.

[10:46] Michael Doherty: Oh, Selena.

[10:47] Alex Keiper: Awesome. Hold on. So, what is the craziest thing you had to cut from the show?

[10:52] Michael Doherty: That's such a great question.

[10:54] Alex Keiper: That is a great question.

[10:55] Michael Doherty: Oh my gosh. So I'll answer that question only referring to the content we've seen so far.

[10:59] Alex Keiper: Yes.

[11:00] Michael Doherty: I think that there's nothing, well, you know, crazy.

[11:04] Alex Keiper: I mean, like, you know, episode two, like not using any of these like revolutionaries that are in Red Fear.

[11:10] Michael Doherty: That was a pretty significant cut because like there was like upwards of five characters they could have interacted with that they didn't even meet, which is just a pretty wild thing.

[11:19] Alex Keiper: Um, but other than that, in episode three, uh, there was there not something in three.

[11:26] Michael Doherty: I I that episode two plot point just distracted me from it.

[11:30] Alex Keiper: Um, oh gosh.

[11:32] Michael Doherty: Uh I don't know. Episode three, it really felt like they went on the path.

[11:36] Alex Keiper: Uh they stuck with the track as best as they could.

[11:39] Michael Doherty: You know, I'll say in episode three.

[11:41] Alex Keiper: Oh, oh, oh, that was something that didn't unfold, but what was cut from the show is is a different question.

[11:45] Michael Doherty: And in terms of what was cut, at the top of two, there uh excuse me.

[11:51] Alex Keiper: Here getting emotional.

[11:54] Michael Doherty: And he's just at the top of two, there is an announcement from the Herald. We hear another announcement.

[12:02] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[12:02] Michael Doherty: He comes out before they go into Beef Sovereign. Or no, while they're in Beef Sovereign.

[12:06] Alex Keiper: Uh huh.

[12:06] Michael Doherty: And he says, you know, hey hey, and he announces that uh there has been a bit of a conflict at the breaking of the grounds at the Tally Shire Mines.

[12:17] Alex Keiper: I believe I used a terrible pun and said, uh, we have groundbreaking muse from the groundbreaking pheromone at the Talia Shire Mines.

[12:26] Alex Keiper: Is that a pun?

[12:28] Michael Doherty: Hey.

[12:29] Alex Keiper: And uh, and so it just it just signals that like there are people from North Talia Shire who are not super cool with this uh environmentally unfriendly uh new dig and they protested it.

[12:42] Michael Doherty: It there was a bit of a skirmish, um, but you know, people have been apprehended.

[12:47] Alex Keiper: So that didn't make the cut. You know what else I'll say is in episode one, um, they made a song in what in actual gameplay, they created a song at the campfire the night that they camped in the at in the meadows before they reached Borsted.

[13:03] Michael Doherty: So uh they had a they played a song, their first song together there, actually. Uh and because of storyline, because we wanted it to be clean, because we wanted beginning, middle, and end, and we wanted that song, that first song they play together to be in the temple.

[13:19] Alex Keiper: We decided to cut that.

[13:21] Michael Doherty: I don't remember that actually.

[13:22] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and it wasn't a big moment. I think they said they have a little jam session.

[13:26] Michael Doherty: Oh, no, no, no. I think I know what you're thinking of. It's a little different than you're remembering.

[13:29] Alex Keiper: Oh, okay.

[13:29] Michael Doherty: It actually took place in episode two.

[13:31] Alex Keiper: No, no, no, no. It's different then, yeah.

[13:32] Michael Doherty: Oh, okay. Because we had to, we had to reorganize one a little bit, I thought.

[13:38] Alex Keiper: I don't I don't believe so, but but here's here's one that that took place during episode two.

[13:42] Michael Doherty: They were at the campfire in Fort Carlo.

[13:44] Alex Keiper: I remember that one too.

[13:45] Michael Doherty: And so uh they're playing the song. Um, and uh they they instead of uh what's the song?

[13:53] Alex Keiper: Uh This is the music, which unfolds as as an extension of their debate.

[13:58] Michael Doherty: Um Jocasta in gameplay said, I'm gonna try to play a little lick that feels folky but verges on rock to kind of test the waters.

[14:08] Alex Keiper: So they sort of invented folk rock at the campfire um and and just did like a sort of instrumental thing, which we were thinking of creating.

[14:16] Michael Doherty: We like the idea of musicalizing the actual argument better.

[14:19] Alex Keiper: Right.

[14:19] Michael Doherty: So it could be more like song focused.

[14:21] Alex Keiper: And not only that, but they have a song that the band plays at the end of the s at the end of the episode.

[14:27] Michael Doherty: And we knew that already. And it felt more compelling.

[14:33] Alex Keiper: Right.

[14:33] Michael Doherty: When there was a bigger one at the end.

[14:35] Alex Keiper: Well, and especially since it it revolves around the creation of folk rock.

[14:38] Michael Doherty: Right.

[14:38] Alex Keiper: And for it to have already happened in the episode, and for them to just do it again later feels less significant.

[14:44] Michael Doherty: Totally, totally.

[14:45] Alex Keiper: So that's the only one I remember though, in terms of like a song that they put out there.

[14:49] Michael Doherty: Yeah, for sure.

[14:50] Alex Keiper: That got cut. They have the we've gotten no complaints from them yet.

[14:53] Michael Doherty: I do keep waiting for the day when they're like, excuse me, but I played that very differently.

[14:57] Alex Keiper: But it's not that different when we put it together.

[15:00] Michael Doherty: I will I will never betray the players' intentions. I will just truncate.

[15:03] Alex Keiper: And honestly.

[15:05] Michael Doherty: Or omitted. Another big reason why Herman exists is so that he can remind the players what happened from week to week.

[15:11] Alex Keiper: If they don't remember what their thing is, you know, it's we have long periods of time between sessions sometimes.

[15:16] Michael Doherty: So Herman is often there to be like, remember these are the three things that they wanted us to do.

[15:21] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:23] Michael Doherty: Um bless him.

[15:24] Alex Keiper: Yeah, bless him.

[15:26] Michael Doherty: So that's that's the other thing. It's like even if they did hear it, they might not remember what they played anyway.

[15:31] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah.

[15:32] Michael Doherty: So thank you, Selena, uh for the question.

[15:35] Alex Keiper: Definitely.

[15:36] Michael Doherty: I'm glad to it it uh gives us another opportunity to uh to bicker about the actual uh goings-on of the podcast.

[15:45] Alex Keiper: The other thing I'd like to I'd like to put out there is Mike in our first session and our first shoot the loot episode felt a little guilty because he felt like he was um actualing me.

[15:55] Michael Doherty: Yeah, which I think I called myself out on.

[15:58] Alex Keiper: Which he did, he called himself, and he was like, I just feel like you know, I you're you're I love you and you're a you're a woman, and I don't want to be telling you to shut up about things.

[16:07] Michael Doherty: Or constantly telling you you're wrong.

[16:08] Alex Keiper: Constantly telling you you're wrong. However, what I would like to say as a caveat is that this thing really lives in his brain.

[16:15] Michael Doherty: I, being a producer, get lots of the information, but I don't need to have it organized in my head quite the same way that he does.

[16:22] Alex Keiper: So I'm thinking about a lot of different things than he is.

[16:26] Michael Doherty: Meaning I don't always have all the details of the exact storyline down, so please never come down on him for correcting.

[16:33] Alex Keiper: You don't have to come to my defense.

[16:36] Michael Doherty: I'm not I don't have a brain for details in the same way.

[16:38] Alex Keiper: Well, thank you, my love.

[16:39] Michael Doherty: Hey, do you want to transition into going scene by scene in the in the setting?

[16:43] Alex Keiper: Let's start talking about uh the episode.

[16:45] Michael Doherty: So great.

[16:46] Alex Keiper: So we start. Uh we've they've just created folk rock.

[16:50] Michael Doherty: Yes.

[16:50] Alex Keiper: The people are still celebrating. Screaming, they're being so gracious about thank you, and they're calling out to their fans.

[16:58] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[16:59] Alex Keiper: It's very cute. It's a very sweet moment.

[17:01] Michael Doherty: I I was so excited to play this episode because I finally got to fully explore my terrible Michael Kane impression in Sheriff Gutendel, who I wouldn't call it terrible.

[17:10] Alex Keiper: Oh, well, thank you.

[17:11] Michael Doherty: I think it's kind of good.

[17:12] Alex Keiper: It's mildly good.

[17:13] Michael Doherty: I I you know It's cartoonish. Rebecca Goodalin has called it uh uh uh, you know, uh Michael Kane with a cold.

[17:21] Alex Keiper: Yeah, that feels out.

[17:23] Michael Doherty: Uh so Michael Cain with a cold comes in. You know, he he guides them to the palace.

[17:28] Alex Keiper: Uh has them, you know, hitch up their steam.

[17:31] Michael Doherty: Now, this whole sequence, as I'm sure you can tell, is very wizard of oz in terms of

[17:31] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[17:31] Michael Doherty: Very wizard of Oz in terms of them getting into the palace, the little guy popping out with his.

[17:42] Alex Keiper: No one gets in to see the wizard.

[17:44] Michael Doherty: Yeah, exactly. I was so excited for the parody.

[17:47] Alex Keiper: Uh and and obviously, like everything that unfolds, like everything has already been done.

[17:52] Michael Doherty: They they've they've restored peace to the land. So we're just like setting up and ramping into this first big musical moment of the episode, which is one of those few moments that I actually write into the gameplay as a song.

[18:04] Alex Keiper: Peace has been restored to the land.

[18:06] Michael Doherty: I describe to the players. I think I originally described it as uh I think you're gonna like it here from Annie meets uh like Ding Dong The Witch is dead from Wizard of Oz.

[18:20] Alex Keiper: That feels right.

[18:20] Michael Doherty: But also kind of meets Merry Old Land of Oz.

[18:23] Alex Keiper: Yes.

[18:24] Michael Doherty: And I think you're gonna like it here was definitely our music, our biggest musical inspiration.

[18:28] Alex Keiper: Uh this was one of the first songs that Jake ended up saying, like, you know, maybe this isn't the song that I'm supposed to be writing.

[18:36] Michael Doherty: Maybe uh it's sort of one of those things where I should pass this off to one of the musical theater proficient people.

[18:42] Alex Keiper: So for this song, we pulled in a dear friend of of mine and and Mike's Matthew Masternardi.

[18:49] Michael Doherty: He's a pianist, composer, actor, uh who I've worked with for many years.

[18:55] Alex Keiper: He we used to coach students together, and he's just one of my favorite collaborators on the planet.

[19:00] Michael Doherty: So he was super excited. He's a manken head for sure, Alan Mankinhead.

[19:04] Alex Keiper: Uh, and and really took a lot of inspiration from those sounds and those themes.

[19:10] Michael Doherty: And it was the first uh song that I got to collaborate really directly on.

[19:14] Alex Keiper: Like I wrote the I got to write the lyrics for it and um uh, you know, sort of take the the first pass at Melody.

[19:21] Michael Doherty: Maddie kind of zhuzged it up a little bit and um uh, you know, added some some new uh some new melody lines and some harmony and uh and then Dan Kazimi uh this was his first major collab on a song, not just as an underscorer.

[19:39] Alex Keiper: Right.

[19:39] Michael Doherty: Uh he he wrote that fabulous uh underscoring for the song that you hear.

[19:43] Alex Keiper: So it was a really fun collab between the three of us.

[19:46] Michael Doherty: Definitely, definitely. Loved doing that.

[19:47] Alex Keiper: Uh yeah, and then uh sorry, uh and we were we then recorded all those backdrap.

[19:53] Michael Doherty: Yeah, so yeah, Dan, Maddie, me, and Alex or the entire chorus.

[19:57] Alex Keiper: Or the whole chorus.

[19:58] Michael Doherty: So we each recorded uh at least one line of of the harm.

[20:02] Alex Keiper: So we all did every harmony and like harmony.

[20:05] Michael Doherty: And just tried to do it in different voices.

[20:09] Alex Keiper: With different intentions.

[20:11] Michael Doherty: Very fun, very fun.

[20:13] Alex Keiper: Super fun.

[20:14] Michael Doherty: So yeah, we finally get to that moment.

[20:16] Alex Keiper: Uh that song happens together.

[20:19] Michael Doherty: Yeah, and and I'll also say, Steve, this is one of my other favorite things that gets cut from the episode is when Mike described the song.

[20:26] Alex Keiper: Steve, who is not a huge musical theater fan, I'll say, he's way more into the rock genre.

[20:32] Michael Doherty: No, I'll say you could say Steve question mark Roscoe question mark. Who's to say?

[20:35] Alex Keiper: Um, but he definitely, as soon as Mike described it, he was like, Because he's also the drummer, so he knows that most of the songs he's going to have to lay something down for.

[20:49] Michael Doherty: He's gonna get his DNA in it and uh be ashamed of the association.

[20:54] Alex Keiper: But um I think it it's a banger of a tune.

[20:57] Michael Doherty: I love it.

[20:58] Alex Keiper: And you know what? I'll say in my head for our live shows, when we do eventually do live shows, I've got the choreography all figured out in my head.

[21:05] Michael Doherty: I've got this whole thing.

[21:07] Alex Keiper: It'll just be me, you, Dan, and and maybe I guess we could get maybe a couple ringers.

[21:12] Michael Doherty: We should get like the like the stage crew to join us, maybe.

[21:16] Alex Keiper: Oh, yeah, I think it's gonna be great.

[21:18] Michael Doherty: Can't wait for live shows.

[21:19] Alex Keiper: You're a visionary.

[21:20] Michael Doherty: Um so then we move on from there.

[21:22] Alex Keiper: We start heading uh after the song ends.

[21:24] Michael Doherty: Pugface is thrilled, of course, because she's our local enthusiast.

[21:27] Alex Keiper: Which I love this.

[21:28] Michael Doherty: This is Joe Costa.

[21:29] Alex Keiper: I love it so much because the reaction you hear Pug Face give is like, woo, that was amazing, which is happening in gameplay based on a song that has not yet been written or taken place.

[21:39] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[21:40] Alex Keiper: I think I made up like an end of a song and finished.

[21:43] Michael Doherty: So welcome to Co Show.

[21:48] Alex Keiper: I that is what I improvised.

[21:50] Michael Doherty: And she's like, that was amazing.

[21:53] Alex Keiper: So the the reaction you're hearing is actually what she did in gameplay, not in reaction to the actual song, but it feels so Oh my gosh, she's just an amazing player.

[22:00] Michael Doherty: So good.

[22:01] Alex Keiper: So fun.

[22:02] Michael Doherty: Um so they get escorted back.

[22:02] Alex Keiper: So then they get escorted back, and fun little thing, which which Mike did add that he is was gonna skip or um kickball change down the hallway.

[22:11] Michael Doherty: Edgar really picked up on it in a way that we weren't sure because Edgar going into this episode, we were very nervous.

[22:16] Alex Keiper: Yeah, what's he gonna want to do?

[22:17] Michael Doherty: It's just as creators.

[22:19] Alex Keiper: Right.

[22:20] Michael Doherty: He was very he had a lot of violent tendencies towards her.

[22:23] Alex Keiper: He was feeling very much so like we weren't sure if he was gonna cause a real problem and either do something to hurt the queen or be punished for attempting to do something to hurt the queen in a way that would stop their journeying in some way.

[22:37] Michael Doherty: So we were nervous, but he started kickball changing down the hallway.

[22:42] Alex Keiper: And I kind of went like the red free.

[22:44] Michael Doherty: Okay, all right, all right. He's feeling maybe he's not feeling so bad.

[22:47] Alex Keiper: And then Joe Costa's brilliant improved kick step backs.

[22:50] Michael Doherty: And now this is a fun sound effect issue that Jake really wanted a sound effect for kickball change, but if you're a dancer, you'd know that kickball change is really just two steps.

[22:58] Alex Keiper: It's so you're doing.

[22:59] Michael Doherty: It's soundless.

[22:59] Alex Keiper: Kicks don't make noise.

[23:02] Michael Doherty: So I was like, Dan, Kazimi.

[23:04] Alex Keiper: Uh I was like, Dan, I really need you to help us figure out how to illustrate those kickball changes without us having to do a literal like step step back back, because it we you just wouldn't be able to hear it very well.

[23:14] Michael Doherty: So and I think he did such a good idea.

[23:16] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, his little piano accompaniment there was pretty good.

[23:18] Michael Doherty: Go back and listen to that.

[23:19] Alex Keiper: It's so excellent the way he describes it musically.

[23:22] Michael Doherty: So they finally get to the holding chamber.

[23:24] Alex Keiper: Edgar has his little panic attack moment.

[23:27] Michael Doherty: Uh-huh.

[23:27] Alex Keiper: And we have our first moment.

[23:29] Michael Doherty: Oh no, well, first moment for Edgar.

[23:30] Alex Keiper: So earlier in what was it, episode two, where the girls, or was it episode one, where the girls calm Ross goes.

[23:38] Michael Doherty: That's an episode one arc, yeah, yeah.

[23:39] Alex Keiper: They they do the back, the burping pat, rub his neck.

[23:44] Michael Doherty: And then doing a little humming or something, right?

[23:47] Alex Keiper: Uh maybe not.

[23:48] Michael Doherty: Isn't there a third thing?

[23:49] Alex Keiper: It's a it no, it's just a uh and a chin scratch.

[23:53] Michael Doherty: Um, but then but then in the end, in the end of episode one, Roscoe joins in by that by sort of squeezing his shoulders for grab him by the arms, I think he says.

[24:02] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[24:03] Michael Doherty: And then she does the burping pat and Pub Face does it.

[24:05] Alex Keiper: It's it's a great little like full circle moment in one.

[24:08] Michael Doherty: Uh which which Edgar now needs again that level of like attention and care.

[24:14] Alex Keiper: I do really love I'll say something that happens when Edgar is sort of losing his cool.

[24:18] Michael Doherty: Um Jake, Jake is so good about sounding really confident in his in his w words that he's chosen.

[24:26] Alex Keiper: Uh however, when Edgar stops feeling totally confident, or when Jake doesn't totally know how to express what Edgar is feeling, he devolves, his language devolves so quickly.

[24:39] Michael Doherty: It's he'll start a sentence so well, and then he gets into it, and it's the the one where he's like, Well, no, Wolf and you get to see a queen.

[24:49] Alex Keiper: Like saying, What are you talking about?

[24:52] Michael Doherty: What's happening?

[24:53] Alex Keiper: Um love that.

[24:55] Michael Doherty: Again, as game makers, well, as well, me as outside game maker, we were very nervous as we were about to open this door and head in to talk to the queen.

[25:04] Alex Keiper: Because anything could have happened.

[25:06] Michael Doherty: Um but you know, for if we're worried about an assault on Kistani, she is, as you would imagine, a very well-protected sovereign.

[25:16] Michael Doherty: I mean, he could have done something really fast, and if he had rolled really well, there was a world that he could have heard her, you know.

[25:21] Alex Keiper: We don't know.

[25:22] Michael Doherty: We don't know.

[25:23] Alex Keiper: But he didn't.

[25:24] Michael Doherty: He didn't try to do anything, thank goodness. The guards were particularly intimidating.

[25:28] Alex Keiper: An attack would have provoked a lot of opportunity attacks.

[25:31] Michael Doherty: I mean, he wouldn't have gotten out of there with his life.

[25:35] Alex Keiper: He maybe would have. I mean, if you're gonna try to kill a sovereign in their throne room, that's not going to go well.

[25:40] Michael Doherty: And like he already was at risk of being killed to begin with.

[25:44] Alex Keiper: Like they're not.

[25:44] Michael Doherty: Oh yeah, I mean he's literally banished.

[25:48] Alex Keiper: Right, yeah. So even if he didn't stir the pot.

[25:51] Michael Doherty: I'm so glad that he was a big thing.

[25:52] Alex Keiper: Which he still stirs the pot in his own way. He's very, you know, insubordinate to her and criticizes her army and her, you know, command.

[26:01] Michael Doherty: Absolutely.

[26:02] Alex Keiper: Which escalates quickly.

[26:03] Michael Doherty: And then we have our that's where we have our fantastic guest appearance.

[26:05] Alex Keiper: I was gonna say you want to talk about Jay from Jay Lady Moore.

[26:08] Michael Doherty: Uh she's a dear friend. We did Christmas Carol together at Milwaukee rep.

[26:14] Alex Keiper: And you know, she's moved on to do everything in the Chicago theater scene and multiple TV appearances, and this show is such a huge get, like a series regular.

[26:24] Michael Doherty: It's so funny.

[26:25] Alex Keiper: Oh my god, yeah. So she's on the show, as we said in on the podcast, she's on the show, 4400 on the CW.

[26:31] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[26:31] Alex Keiper: Uh about a about 4400 people who get transferred from a different point in time to the present day.

[26:37] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[26:38] Alex Keiper: And she is one of those people.

[26:39] Michael Doherty: Yeah, she's from the 50s.

[26:41] Alex Keiper: Yeah, from the 50s.

[26:42] Michael Doherty: Yeah, it's it's yeah, all marginalized people, which is the sort of subversion because it's a it's like a reboot of a show from like the early 2000s.

[26:50] Alex Keiper: Yeah, which I did not know that show.

[26:51] Michael Doherty: Um, yeah, it was called the 4400 then.

[26:54] Alex Keiper: Uh but yeah, it sounds like a really poignant updating of that story and should be super awesome.

[27:01] Michael Doherty: And y'all should check it out.

[27:02] Alex Keiper: Definitely.

[27:03] Michael Doherty: Um but yeah, she gives a great performance.

[27:05] Alex Keiper: And then how's recording with her?

[27:06] Michael Doherty: Oh, it's delightful. I mean, I mean, like, literally, like I, you know, I voice all the NPCs when we do the actual gameplay, and I'm always curious to see how similar the character's impulses are gonna be when the guest voice is recording.

[27:19] Alex Keiper: And in the case of Jay, like she was just like right on the money with exactly what my expectations were in this deeply satisfying way.

[27:28] Michael Doherty: I was like, I have no notes. That was great. You know, so she killed it.

[27:33] Alex Keiper: Yeah, she did such a great job. And we got that great scene. I really love how that one unfolded.

[27:37] Michael Doherty: Yeah, I do too. And then we get to meet Edgar's lost love.

[27:42] Alex Keiper: Yeah, Giselda.

[27:43] Michael Doherty: She's Zelda Glass.

[27:44] Alex Keiper: Zelda Glass walks in and stops the room.

[27:47] Michael Doherty: Um, she is a sex positive, uh powerful lady who who, you know, is very popular.

[27:56] Alex Keiper: Yeah, she, you know, she's 1400 years old, so she's got a lot of experience. She's got the trust of the Queen, clearly, even though the queen.

[28:04] Michael Doherty: Even though she's pretty able to be friendly with Edgar and talk to him about whatever, it just shows how much sway she has in this place.

[28:11] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and how much autonomy she has.

[28:13] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah. Talking him through these things and guiding them there.

[28:16] Alex Keiper: Yeah, so so yeah, it was this delightful moment to sort of like, you know, put Edgar through the ringer a little bit more, just like in terms of being embarrassed in front of his friends.

[28:25] Michael Doherty: I really I really did enjoy writing that sequence.

[28:28] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[28:29] Michael Doherty: He's hard to embarrass, too.

[28:30] Alex Keiper: He is, he is. He's not a guy who embarrasses easily.

[28:33] Michael Doherty: Another great sequence with some great improvs there from our players.

[28:36] Alex Keiper: Oh god, yes.

[28:37] Michael Doherty: Yes.

[28:42] Alex Keiper: And some great underscoring from Dan, too.

[28:45] Michael Doherty: We get like some bongos happening as soon as she appears.

[28:49] Alex Keiper: She's so mysterious.

[28:50] Michael Doherty: There's something really like captivating about her.

[28:54] Alex Keiper: She's got all the power.

[28:55] Michael Doherty: It's great. I love her, love her.

[28:56] Alex Keiper: Um, she brings them into the Sanctuary of the Gods, which they now finally have access to.

[29:01] Michael Doherty: Um, where they must make which also another brilliant moment of underscoring.

[29:06] Alex Keiper: Dan has this sort of like video game level up or level complete, sort of like flourish when those doors finally open, and it's so fantastic.

[29:16] Michael Doherty: Because we get to just fully enjoy the fact that they've been fighting for this.

[29:20] Alex Keiper: I know, yeah, for like at least since the end of the first episode.

[29:23] Michael Doherty: Right. Since this is our their first huge conflict that they're now able to for like an episode and a half they've been trying to do this and they accomplish this.

[29:32] Alex Keiper: And now they're here, so it's exciting.

[29:34] Michael Doherty: It is an exciting little moment.

[29:36] Alex Keiper: And then, as we said, they lead into their a cappella tune.

[29:41] Michael Doherty: Uh, which we leave in their improv attempt at a cappella.

[29:46] Alex Keiper: Oh my gosh, when they accidentally sing the or unwittingly sing the uh 2001 Space Odyssey theme song.

[29:55] Michael Doherty: Oh my gosh. It was so funny. It was just it was just happening organically, and then Steve saw them over.

[30:00] Alex Keiper: Steve just saw it.

[30:01] Michael Doherty: He just knew. I couldn't breathe. I was laughing so hard. I thought it was the funniest thing ever.

[30:06] Alex Keiper: And it was just a Leah moment of like, let's do it a cappella.

[30:10] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[30:10] Alex Keiper: Like for no particular reason. They have their instruments with them, except for Ross and the other.

[30:20] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah.

[30:20] Alex Keiper: Let's make it.

[30:21] Michael Doherty: Let's just don't worry about yeah, we'll just do something fun.

[30:23] Alex Keiper: They made the exact choice you wanted them to make.

[30:25] Michael Doherty: I can't believe it.

[30:26] Alex Keiper: Which led to a brilliant uh do-op number that that Jakey wrote, uh, which was just awesome.

[30:32] Michael Doherty: So Dindra, Woozodindra is so good and so fun.

[30:36] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[30:37] Michael Doherty: It's uh, you know, I'll say, after listening to it now several times, there is still, I'm I do still wish we had one final slowed down uh moment at the end where we get a really good moment with the bass singer, you know, like there was something that I was still missing from the song that when we release the uh the uh the album, maybe we'll be able to do a re-record and and get that final little moment in there.

[31:04] Alex Keiper: I think it's pretty great.

[31:05] Michael Doherty: Dan agreed with me, I'm just saying.

[31:07] Alex Keiper: Sure.

[31:08] Michael Doherty: Um, yeah, uh, so we have that lovely little tune, and uh and then the the gods are summoned.

[31:14] Alex Keiper: I was really looking forward to this sequence too, because uh we have this sort of like extensive sequence where all the gods get summoned, much to the chagrin of our players who have to sort of like wait through this absurd introduction of me just talking to myself.

[31:27] Michael Doherty: Which we also sort of knew was going to we didn't know when they were gonna realize sort of what was happening.

[31:34] Alex Keiper: And then they do such a great job of responding in real time.

[31:37] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, clocking.

[31:39] Alex Keiper: Wait, are you gonna go through all of them?

[31:40] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[31:41] Alex Keiper: Really, really deeply satisfying.

[31:42] Michael Doherty: And then now you can talk a little bit about those voices.

[31:45] Alex Keiper: Yeah, you know, I it was the first time that I had like a sequence where I had to voice a lot of characters at once.

[31:50] Michael Doherty: So I kept writing in my script little notes to help me remember which terrible impression of someone I was gonna do.

[31:57] Alex Keiper: You know, because that's the thing, when you're just doing voices, like it as long as they sound different from one another, it's fine.

[32:03] Michael Doherty: Right. Because I'm not claiming that I'm doing impressions.

[32:06] Alex Keiper: No.

[32:07] Michael Doherty: But I would write like parenthetically to, you know, four-tier god of chance, Richard Kind, so that I would I could kind of do the thing where he popped out of the side of his mouth, you know.

[32:19] Alex Keiper: But it doesn't sound like Richard Kind.

[32:21] Michael Doherty: No, no, it's my terrible Richard Kind impression.

[32:24] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[32:25] Michael Doherty: You know, some some some energy.

[32:27] Alex Keiper: Some voice found within Richard Kinds by Richard Kind.

[32:30] Michael Doherty: So uh yeah, a very, a very uh Do you want to go through and say which ones they were?

[32:34] Alex Keiper: Oh gosh, I don't even know if I remember all of them at this point.

[32:37] Michael Doherty: We could try, right?

[32:39] Alex Keiper: So he first calls um Gaiades, right?

[32:42] Michael Doherty: Yeah, he calls Maras first.

[32:44] Alex Keiper: Oh, Maris first, right, who they already met.

[32:46] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[32:46] Alex Keiper: Who and Maris is based on.

[32:48] Michael Doherty: I he no really no one. It was just kind of the the voice I discovered at the end of Ewan.

[32:52] Alex Keiper: Although I'll say yes, the voice, but like the actions and what you were thinking of as Maris.

[32:59] Michael Doherty: There was like a little Lebowski in there, right?

[33:01] Alex Keiper: There was like I guess a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:04] Michael Doherty: Kind of like the yeah, the the schlub who kind of has to like get ready for a big occasion.

[33:09] Alex Keiper: Right, right.

[33:10] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[33:10] Alex Keiper: Uh then Gaiades, who is who we've heard about before, who is Daphne's mother.

[33:14] Michael Doherty: Um, Daphne the wood nymph who we first saw in episode one.

[33:17] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and I just kind of pitched my Daphne voice that no one ever heard Apple a little bit.

[33:23] Michael Doherty: Right.

[33:23] Alex Keiper: So he just took the initial Daphne Daphne voice that was covered by Landry Fleming's beautiful performance.

[33:28] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:29] Alex Keiper: Uh and then yeah, pitched it up so that it's felt in the same world.

[33:33] Michael Doherty: Um then who's next?

[33:35] Alex Keiper: I I really don't remember.

[33:36] Michael Doherty: I I will not be good at this game of remembering the equ uh the the sequence or do you remember any of them?

[33:41] Alex Keiper: Or the or the inspiration.

[33:43] Michael Doherty: I I've been told that uh Domino kind of sounds a bit like Steve Zahn.

[33:46] Alex Keiper: Uh-huh.

[33:47] Michael Doherty: Oh, oh, here's one.

[33:48] Alex Keiper: Uh Atherman, the god of wisdom is our buddy, is my impression of our buddy Dito van Ryiger's bird.

[33:53] Michael Doherty: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[33:54] Alex Keiper: Who is a Philly actor clown and the other thing?

[33:56] Michael Doherty: And that's one that everybody really liked.

[33:57] Alex Keiper: So that that was the one Joe Costa was like, oh, I like him.

[33:59] Michael Doherty: Yeah, well, he's the only one who says something kind to them.

[34:01] Alex Keiper: Yeah, he I'm so glad you came all this way.

[34:05] Michael Doherty: Isn't that him?

[34:05] Alex Keiper: No, he's like, oh, look at them. How could you want to destroy them?

[34:08] Michael Doherty: Oh, right, right, right, right.

[34:09] Alex Keiper: No, the goddess of love.

[34:10] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, Zimera.

[34:12] Alex Keiper: She was nice too.

[34:14] Michael Doherty: Those are the two nice ones.

[34:15] Alex Keiper: Anyway.

[34:16] Michael Doherty: Um, the God of Death was the one that really stood out to me as the most ominous.

[34:22] Alex Keiper: Mm-hmm.

[34:22] Michael Doherty: For sure.

[34:23] Alex Keiper: And they do just sort of reference him as like, it's not good when anybody whispers.

[34:28] Michael Doherty: I love it.

[34:29] Alex Keiper: Um, but I also think what he says is pretty horrifying.

[34:33] Michael Doherty: And if I'm looking at any kind of an epic journey and I hear someone say, We'll get to know each other eventually.

[34:41] Alex Keiper: I feel like potentially this guy might be coming back.

[34:45] Michael Doherty: Death does come for us all.

[34:47] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:48] Michael Doherty: It's true.

[34:48] Alex Keiper: It's true.

[34:49] Michael Doherty: Uh so you're very it's a very literal thing.

[34:53] Alex Keiper: I do just sort of wonder totally.

[34:55] Michael Doherty: I just wonder, you know, like Yeah.

[34:57] Alex Keiper: What does that mean?

[34:58] Michael Doherty: Yeah, what does that mean?

[34:58] Alex Keiper: What does that mean?

[34:59] Michael Doherty: When will we get to talk to him again?

[35:02] Alex Keiper: Well, anyway, so so we So yeah, you can move past the gods if you like.

[35:06] Michael Doherty: Thank you.

[35:07] Alex Keiper: So there are other ones.

[35:08] Michael Doherty: I I honestly I don't think there was a lot of of other direct inspiration in there from the city.

[35:13] Alex Keiper: Um what about uh beats working?

[35:16] Michael Doherty: Oh well I guess uh I guess the him I just wondered, someone Ethereal who had like a kind of like dichotomous opposite that he would say, and I guess that was like a little more like Paul Lind and Paul Lind.

[35:27] Alex Keiper: That's the one I was looking for.

[35:28] Michael Doherty: Beats working.

[35:29] Alex Keiper: Right.

[35:29] Michael Doherty: That's the one I was looking for.

[35:30] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[35:30] Michael Doherty: Okay, great.

[35:31] Alex Keiper: Now we can move on.

[35:31] Michael Doherty: Now that I heard Paul Lindsay.

[35:33] Alex Keiper: Yeah, it's looking for Lynn.

[35:34] Michael Doherty: Um so we we get to the end of the sequence, uh, and then they finally get to make their case before the 12, which is an incredible moment where uh Joe Costa really steps up to the plate in this beautiful way.

[35:45] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[35:46] Michael Doherty: And um, you know, it's funny because you know, Jill Casa has kind of ID'd herself as like the naive one that kind of steps in it, that like doesn't know enough about niceties to really navigate her way well through social situations.

[35:59] Alex Keiper: Right, other than that, she's just very kind.

[36:01] Michael Doherty: So she'll like always be kind in whatever way she can be.

[36:05] Alex Keiper: Right, absolutely.

[36:06] Michael Doherty: But like a moment where she's really called upon to be eloquent is super antithetical to the character she established.

[36:13] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah.

[36:13] Michael Doherty: Which is why like seeing that character rise to the occasion is such amazing early character development that just like has organically happened.

[36:20] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and it's happened now several times where she sort of feels like the kind of person she's the one who talks to the gu to the guys at the campfire first.

[36:28] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[36:29] Alex Keiper: Like she's always herself out there.

[36:30] Michael Doherty: They put her, they sent her out to go talk to Papa Curio.

[36:33] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[36:33] Michael Doherty: Like she is always the first one.

[36:34] Alex Keiper: She's stuck in the leader of this group, even though she feels like maybe that's not what she was initially trained to do.

[36:40] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[36:41] Alex Keiper: Now she's good at it.

[36:42] Michael Doherty: She's yeah, she's certainly better at it than the rest of them.

[36:44] Alex Keiper: For sure.

[36:45] Michael Doherty: So it's glad that she's gonna be a good idea.

[36:46] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and in Queen Castani's Chamber, too.

[36:48] Michael Doherty: Yep.

[36:49] Alex Keiper: It's like I'm gonna speak because I think Edgar's because Edgar's gonna get us killed.

[36:55] Michael Doherty: Um she she handles it could beautifully.

[36:58] Alex Keiper: They offer uh the chance to go back to their sovereign and their people to try to change their nation's ways and the digging of the Talya Shira mines and stop the deforestation.

[37:07] Michael Doherty: Right.

[37:08] Alex Keiper: Um, and should they fail, the three plagues will unfold.

[37:12] Michael Doherty: Yes, Selena.

[37:14] Alex Keiper: As Selena identifies to the same thing.

[37:16] Michael Doherty: She is especially better at it than Herman is.

[37:18] Alex Keiper: Yes.

[37:19] Michael Doherty: Significantly so.

[37:20] Alex Keiper: Which, as I said, uh, very improved moments, uh, Herman's horrible beatboxing.

[37:25] Michael Doherty: Yes, oh my god.

[37:26] Alex Keiper: Impromptu rap.

[37:27] Michael Doherty: So bad.

[37:28] Alex Keiper: Um, but I'll say something we skipped over.

[37:30] Michael Doherty: Oh, please.

[37:31] Alex Keiper: The most important part of the gods is Domino arriving, correct?

[37:35] Michael Doherty: Well, yeah, but he he doesn't like really have a scene with him until after all the gods leave.

[37:39] Alex Keiper: Right, but we do see that initial uh conversation where he says, Oh shit, dang.

[37:46] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and uh, you know, I'll say in my reading of it the first couple times that I listened to it, every time I heard the way that he performed that towards Edgar, it always sounded to me like Domino had done something bad.

[38:00] Alex Keiper: Well, he feels guilty. Domino feels guilty.

[38:02] Michael Doherty: Well, well, well, he just feels like a little weird that like it's weird now, right? Like, like Edgar used draconic magic in the necklace of Octock Toon to improve his voice.

[38:12] Alex Keiper: Uh, he was outed, Domino realized he's like embarrassed that he never knew after all those years.

[38:18] Michael Doherty: Right. He like takes the magic out of Edgar's Thunder loot, which of course gets reinstated in this episode.

[38:23] Alex Keiper: Yeah. But like, you know, like things are awkward now.

[38:26] Michael Doherty: So I think he's like really like girding his loins. He never thought he was gonna have to interact with this person again.

[38:32] Alex Keiper: Right, right. Which is also why now that he's finally in the room with him again, why he's willing to sort of offer up the chance to be his votary again.

[38:40] Michael Doherty: Right, great. Okay, that makes sense to me. So the first thing that Edgar says is like, I'm sorry.

[38:47] Alex Keiper: Domino, I'm so sorry.

[38:48] Michael Doherty: Edgar does not say I'm sorry easily, I'll say.

[38:51] Alex Keiper: Definitely not.

[38:52] Michael Doherty: Um, and there is a moment later in the episode where he says, How many times do I have to say it? And I hadn't clocked actually that he had said it at all.

[39:00] Alex Keiper: I think that's the only actual time that he says I'm sorry is that initial greeting.

[39:00] Michael Doherty: He says, I'm sorry, and then he says, Do you swear never to do it again?

[39:06] Alex Keiper: And then he says, I yes, I I I I swear on Herman's life.

[39:14] Michael Doherty: Yeah. And then he sort of backtracks on that.

[39:17] Alex Keiper: So we never actually get a real true grounded I'm sorry from Edgar.

[39:24] Michael Doherty: So there is something in me that always wondered whether or not he was actually sorry, whether he was just trying to get out of it, get what he needed out of the situation.

[39:32] Alex Keiper: I don't totally know.

[39:33] Michael Doherty: That's interesting. Well, he does, he says that originally when Domino first appears.

[39:36] Alex Keiper: That's what I mean.

[39:43] Michael Doherty: And then he says, I am so sorry, how many times do I have to say it in that secondary street?

[39:41] Alex Keiper: Does he say I'm so sorry how many?

[39:43] Michael Doherty: I think he just says, How many times do I have to say it?

[39:48] Alex Keiper: Oh, I see, I see.

[39:49] Michael Doherty: I don't think he ever says it again.

[39:51] Alex Keiper: Selena Knight asks, does Edgar even value Herman's life?

[39:54] Michael Doherty: Certainly.

[39:55] Alex Keiper: Certainly not.

[39:56] Michael Doherty: At least not in that moment.

[39:57] Alex Keiper: Not certainly doesn't.

[39:58] Michael Doherty: He's like weirdly willing to make it. Maybe there's a world where he will grow to love Herman, but we don't see it yet.

[40:04] Alex Keiper: Episode three is not that day.

[40:05] Michael Doherty: Episode three is not that day.

[40:07] Alex Keiper: Um, the fact that he swears on Herman's life.

[40:11] Michael Doherty: This is a good point, Selena Knight, is that he swears on Herman's life because it doesn't mean anything to him, right?

[40:16] Alex Keiper: So, like, that's why he chooses Herman's life. Not because the whatever, not because he's actually sorry, but because he doesn't actually want to lose anything if he lies.

[40:25] Michael Doherty: He makes the most cowardly choice still.

[40:28] Alex Keiper: Definitely, even though he desperately wants the memory.

[40:30] Michael Doherty: And it convinces Domino, which to me speaks to Domino's ego, maybe a little bit.

[40:36] Alex Keiper: Well, and it's also about the promise, right? If you swear never to use draconic magic again, then I'll give you this.

[40:42] Michael Doherty: Which is the second time in this episode where we get the sort of stipulation, right? Like you can have what you want if you do this.

[40:49] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[40:50] Michael Doherty: Or in both cases, they're expressly forbidden from doing something.

[40:53] Alex Keiper: Right.

[40:54] Michael Doherty: In Castani's case, they are to never return to Kar Katara ever again. In Domino's case, he is to never deal with draconic magic ever again.

[41:02] Alex Keiper: Right, right. So goes the...

[41:02] Michael Doherty: Yeah, but again, what I'm saying is that he says, Do you swear to never do this again?

[41:11] Alex Keiper: And Edgar says, I swear on something that I don't mind losing.

[41:16] Michael Doherty: So like very clearly, if Domino had dug into that swearing a little bit more, he flies right past it.

[41:24] Alex Keiper: He's just so excited to see.

[41:26] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just like, he doesn't really, he's not a god without ego.

[41:30] Alex Keiper: And the fact that he's able to trust Edgar so quickly speaks to me that he just was excited that somebody wanted to follow him again.

[41:38] Michael Doherty: Yeah, it gives you a glimpse of what the relationship once was.

[41:41] Alex Keiper: Absolutely. He was his boy.

[41:43] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[41:44] Alex Keiper: Great. Magic restored to the Thunder loot.

[41:47] Michael Doherty: Beautiful little moment, well underscored.

[41:49] Alex Keiper: That lick that he does.

[41:51] Michael Doherty: Oh, yeah, Dustinov plays something.

[41:54] Alex Keiper: Ooh, it's so good.

[41:55] Michael Doherty: It's such a sick lick.

[41:56] Alex Keiper: I love that the improv line that follows it is like, ah, but practice anyway.

[42:01] Michael Doherty: It's like it's such a sick little lick.

[42:04] Alex Keiper: Truly love that. And you know, when we're making the episodes, the music is the last thing that gets added.

[42:11] Michael Doherty: So we listen to the episode several times before the music gets put in.

[42:15] Alex Keiper: Oh, yeah.

[42:16] Michael Doherty: So once they added that lick, and now every time we've heard it, we're always like, oh my gosh.

[42:20] Alex Keiper: Oh my gosh, that's so good.

[42:22] Michael Doherty: Because I think in the improv, it was just Jake saying, uh, sizzling guitar loot.

[42:27] Alex Keiper: Sizzle and guitar lick.

[42:29] Michael Doherty: Which it was.

[42:30] Alex Keiper: It was.

[42:30] Michael Doherty: Um, they leave, uh, they leave the Sanctuary for Gods.

[42:37] Alex Keiper: And Roscoe has no chill about getting the thing.

[42:40] Michael Doherty: No patience. Like now that this clock is three days out from the first plague.

[42:46] Alex Keiper: She says goodbye, everyone. He goes, goodbye.

[42:48] Michael Doherty: Yeah. Well, you know, Edgar had been flirting, she was engaging, he has no time for it, which I think is an incredible sense of urgency now instilled in it.

[42:58] Alex Keiper: They're also now met with that same crowd that they just left.

[43:01] Michael Doherty: Yeah. Oh, and we forgot. We didn't talk about them discovering what they're being.

[43:06] Alex Keiper: So they'd been the beat sovereigns, they decided at the end of E2.

[43:10] Michael Doherty: Not B-E-E-T sovereigns.

[43:16] Alex Keiper: As we discussed in the last lick.

[43:19] Michael Doherty: Um, yeah, and so now, uh, once he restores the magic to Edgar's, as he calls it, mythic Thunder loot.

[43:28] Alex Keiper: Uh, you know, that prompts Jocasta to say, did Donald just give us a new name? Are we the votaries now?

[43:37] Michael Doherty: So then they go votaries and then they do, uh, the disciples of Mars.

[43:41] Alex Keiper: Disciples of Morris, thank you, Herman.

[43:43] Michael Doherty: They're like, no, that's it. No, get me out of here, absolutely not, Herman.

[43:47] Alex Keiper: And then they land on Mythic Thunder loot as their band name.

[43:50] Michael Doherty: And their announcement of Mythic Thunderlute, also leaving Herman out actively.

[43:54] Alex Keiper: Really excellent.

[43:55] Michael Doherty: Really excellent, but was so uplifting, was such an exciting moment and felt like a culmination of so many of the things that we've been trying to build.

[44:03] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, right.

[44:04] Michael Doherty: So them deciding to go up and say their name to the group, because that wasn't totally prompted, right?

[44:12] Alex Keiper: Not at all prompted.

[44:13] Michael Doherty: We didn't tell them that they had to go announce their new name.

[44:15] Alex Keiper: No, not at all.

[44:16] Michael Doherty: But they were stoked to go do it.

[44:18] Alex Keiper: They were so excited to share it because they knew they were in front of their fans and what's their message to their fans.

[44:22] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah. And, and you know, we're gonna be interested to see how many of these people that then now have seen them as Mythic Thunderlute, then follow them as a band.

[44:31] Alex Keiper: Fandom is something we haven't explored a lot in the world yet.

[44:35] Michael Doherty: Uh, and we're sort of excited to see where that goes and where that takes us.

[44:40] Alex Keiper: Absolutely.

[44:41] Michael Doherty: Um, and so yeah, we get that moment where they count to three, they say Mythic Thunderlute, uh, Sheriff Gutendel, one of his rangers, uh, reunites them with our steeds.

[44:51] Alex Keiper: Mythic steeds, their sweet, sweet, smelly steeds.

[44:54] Michael Doherty: And then they hop on their horses and they run into the forest to try to get back to talk to their sovereign to go do what the gods have asked them to do.

[45:03] Alex Keiper: Yeah, they set off on their quest on their newfound quest that Zodindra has now sort of quested them on.

[45:11] Michael Doherty: Yes. Also, again banished from Karkatara now.

[45:14] Alex Keiper: Yeah, all four of them now, well, five of them now banished from Karkatara and no longer able to come back.

[45:19] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[45:20] Alex Keiper: Um, so they run into General General Alvar, uh, who is in very good spirits, very happy to see them, happy to hear that everything went well.

[45:28] Michael Doherty: That's been restored to the land, and then, uh, you know, very disappointed to learn about their banishment.

[45:33] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[45:34] Michael Doherty: He says, uh, a tearful goodbye to Edgar, more tearful than for Alvar than Edgar.

[45:40] Alex Keiper: Than for Edgar, sure, maybe.

[45:41] Michael Doherty: But also, I did feel like Edgar found a real reverence for that relationship.

[45:47] Alex Keiper: Yeah, especially because it came back.

[45:49] Michael Doherty: I wonder if he wouldn't have thought about it twice had it not, but the fact that they ran into Alvar again and Alvar really bookended their time in Karkatara, it felt like Edgar got a chance to reflect in a way he wasn't sort of like heightened and defensive at that point.

[46:05] Alex Keiper: He was able to be calmer and like maybe more who he actually used to be with Alvar.

[46:10] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[46:10] Alex Keiper: Uh, so that felt nice.

[46:13] Michael Doherty: Who's also his former mentor and I think I said in a previous episode of Shoot the Lute, uh, the guy who taught him the loot.

[46:19] Alex Keiper: Yeah, the man who taught him how to play.

[46:21] Michael Doherty: Yeah. And, and who had such belief in him that he brought him into the city even though he knew it was a great risk to his own safety.

[46:30] Alex Keiper: Yeah, right.

[46:31] Michael Doherty: So yeah, it meant a lot.

[46:33] Alex Keiper: I was really glad that they got that goodbye.

[46:35] Michael Doherty: We wanted to make sure that they got that, that we together was that loop.

[46:40] Alex Keiper: And he warns of the elven army encampment that lies just ahead led by Colonel Tarsk who, uh, is the guy who cold shouldered Roscoe at the campfire in E2 who, uh, Alvar was kind of arguing with, uh, and sort of saying that Edgar should go into red fear.

[46:58] Michael Doherty: Not a super nice guy, not a guy we love.

[47:00] Alex Keiper: And we sort of get like an echoing of the same threat that Castani made which is like if he ever shows his aged face here again.

[47:00] Michael Doherty: Yeah, although it feels a little more, you know, like it's way more personal.

[47:10] Alex Keiper: Yeah, Cassani it feels a little more bureaucratic, you know, like she's doing things because she feels that is how rulers handle things.

[47:18] Michael Doherty: Yeah, and it's about the image of the nation and the crown.

[47:22] Alex Keiper: You could change that image based on what decisions you make.

[47:26] Michael Doherty: And so there's lots of ways to get around a bureaucratic death.

[47:29] Alex Keiper: Uh, whereas this felt a little more immediate.

[47:32] Michael Doherty: Like if they were to run into Colonel Tarsk, we don't know that they would be safe.

[47:37] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[47:39] Michael Doherty: There's definitely that implication there.

[47:41] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[47:41] Michael Doherty: And truly miraculously, they actually rolled just well enough.

[47:44] Alex Keiper: They needed to roll a 15 or higher to, uh, stealthily sneak past the enchantment, and they all did.

[47:49] Michael Doherty: The last person, and it was Edgar.

[47:52] Alex Keiper: Barely waited at the end.

[47:54] Michael Doherty: It could have been a very different exchange with, uh, with Mr. Tars.

[47:57] Alex Keiper: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[47:59] Michael Doherty: Um, so they get through, no problem, which is a good thing because we have a whole other battle.

[48:06] Alex Keiper: Danger waiting for them.

[48:08] Michael Doherty: Yeah. Once they reach, uh, the border of Karkatara into a Denia.

[48:13] Alex Keiper: Now just of course the name the province of King's Run.

[48:16] Michael Doherty: Right. Now, this section was one of the most exciting for us, uh, as we were getting ready for it, as we were like building to it.

[48:23] Alex Keiper: It's the very first combat that they've entered into.

[48:26] Michael Doherty: Yeah, again, they've avoided a lot of combat along with the color.

[48:26] Alex Keiper: Surprisingly, in D&D combat is very, I mean, as many of you know, it's very, very common.

[48:34] Michael Doherty: It's a thing that happens almost every time you play.

[48:37] Alex Keiper: If combat doesn't happen when you play, it's a little weird.

[48:39] Michael Doherty: It's like seems like maybe you didn't get to what you needed to get to then.

[48:43] Alex Keiper: And to be fair, like I was very much conscious of the fact that when we do finally get to combat, like it needs to move at a pace unlike in a typical D&D game, so it feels cinematic, so it feels like satisfying to a listener in the context of a sort of musical.

[48:58] Michael Doherty: Right.

[48:58] Alex Keiper: So, uh, as we were trying to figure out what this song was, Jake kept trying to put different things on it, and he was listening to it, trying to see how it could all fit in with the storytelling of each individual role and each individual way that the battle goes, as different people shoot arrows or get hit with arrows, or decide to do something else, scream and hit their chests or whatever.

[49:20] Michael Doherty: He wanted to make sure we were highlighting all those choices.

[49:23] Alex Keiper: So he built music around the battle rather than building a song to put on top of it and replace the moment.

[49:30] Michael Doherty: Yeah, more so than ever before the music, as I'm sure you can tell, is very integrated into it.

[49:35] Alex Keiper: And I think he did such a brilliant job.

[49:37] Michael Doherty: Brilliant.

[49:37] Alex Keiper: It was perfect.

[49:38] Michael Doherty: And I think the only other time we have a moment where like gameplay dialogue is inserted into a song is during, uh, anyone can be king.

[49:48] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[49:48] Michael Doherty: The dialogue sequences were the actual improv lines that he sort of knew he was going to break up the song to sort of frame that conversation.

[49:56] Alex Keiper: So he started building it with that underscoring leading into the song and then found some really magical moments.

[50:05] Michael Doherty: A major highlight is the Herman scream.

[50:08] Alex Keiper: Herman surprisingly rolls really well after being hit.

[50:11] Michael Doherty: Two Nat 20 so that he doesn't fall unconscious.

[50:16] Michael Doherty: So he gets this epic rock scream that is just awesome.

[50:21] Alex Keiper: So hilarious.

[50:22] Michael Doherty: Yeah, and that tune is really all Jakey's brilliance.

[50:25] Alex Keiper: Yeah, you know, amply supported by Dan Kazimi's zhuzhen and re-mixing and that's it.

[50:32] Michael Doherty: Yeah, truly, so that we could hear everything that we needed. Another little issue we ran into in the creation of that sequence is Mayfield as a singer sounded a little bit like Edgar as a singer.

[50:47] Alex Keiper: So it started because it's a good thing.

[50:48] Michael Doherty: Which I don't believe they know that who that character is yet. Like we haven't named him.

[50:52] Alex Keiper: Right.

[50:52] Michael Doherty: But the guy who arrests him who was deceived by Edgar in the scene.

[50:57] Alex Keiper: Yeah, and the man who's talking to them and yelling out to them, saying surrender.

[51:00] Michael Doherty: But in the script, he is written as Major Mayfield.

[51:02] Alex Keiper: Major Mayfield.

[51:03] Michael Doherty: And his voice, especially his singing voice, did resemble Edgar's in a way that as there was so much happening in this song, it got a little confusing.

[51:13] Alex Keiper: So we had to go back and rewrite a little of the lyrics just so that we were really highlighting who was who as everything was happening.

[51:21] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And that's just a difference between like audio storytelling and visual storytelling. It wouldn't have been any kind of an issue otherwise. But suddenly, you know, it's things that we're not thinking about until we listen to the whole thing all in order.

[51:36] Alex Keiper: So like a day before we released it, we had to re-record that.

[51:39] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah, which was a good pivot.

[51:40] Alex Keiper: Yeah. And also just like talking about the actual gameplay of the moment, right? Like they had a chance to actually surrender or try to run away or like move through it or something.

[51:50] Michael Doherty: They could have done so many things. They, you know, and they chose to engage in this very violent way, of course, really initiated by Edgar's Thunderloot strum, which is an amazing moment, right? It's the first time we see the full violent power, not just the musical power of the Thunder Loot.

[52:07] Alex Keiper: Um, we see, you know, the with great power comes great responsibility moment for Edgar immediately taken advantage of. We see it wipe will like have devastating consequences to people who pose a significant threat, but who pose way more of a threat after he does that.

[52:24] Michael Doherty: It is really immediate how soon he betrays the use of this, like the responsible use of this instrument he was just given back. It's just like remarkable. I think this is a good like poll for our listeners too. Like, like, how do you feel about that Edgar action? I know we talked when we asked Maddie, Master Nardi, who was our collaborator on Pieces Been Restored, we were like, What did you think when we're going to do that? And like we're a little worried that people are gonna we're gonna lose people on Edgar. People are gonna like hate him after this moment.

[52:53] Alex Keiper: And he said he did what he had to do.

[52:57] Michael Doherty: We're like, fuck. He did what he had to do. It was the only answer. So, you know, I think for people who understand like, you know, video games or D&D, like making a choice like that may seem way less dire, but also bear in mind, these are musicians.

[53:12] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[53:13] Michael Doherty: And like, I don't know that Edgar's killed a man before, let alone 50 with 60. He definitely he ran away from his post as a king because he didn't want to be responsible for people's lives. He had no interest in that.

[53:26] Alex Keiper: Selena Knight says, Edgar, support.

[53:31] Michael Doherty: All right, all right. We have gotten nothing but support from Edgar's decision. And I love it. Thrilled. Um, so it's very sweet moment because Pugface and Roscoe are the last two standing, right? Uh best friends, yeah, doing everything they can to save each other, to save their fallen comrades.

[53:51] Alex Keiper: She shoots her arrows out, she kills two people. She's definitely never killed anyone before.

[53:57] Michael Doherty: Uh so you know, that's that's a lot going on for her. She almost immediately gets taken out. Roscoe dives into the fray, and he almost immediately gets taken out, and they're all passed out at this point. They all wake up in the jail, uh or in the dungeon in the dungeon.

[54:13] Alex Keiper: Our first dungeon.

[54:14] Michael Doherty: Our first dungeon in this Dungeons and Dragons campaign. Um, which, yeah, I get I guess the audience doesn't know exactly where that dungeon is located at this point. But you do sort of assume I as somebody who knows it slightly less well than you do. I, as a listener, sort of assumed that they were in a Bohrstead dungeon because they were among the Borstead operator.

[54:36] Alex Keiper: That's a totally fair assumption.

[54:38] Michael Doherty: Now the first thing that happens when they wake up is something that really warmed us. Pugface wakes up and says, Is Herman okay?

[54:46] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[54:47] Michael Doherty: And yeah, a little unclear if again if it's a Leah question or a Pugface question. But it doesn't matter.

[54:52] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[54:53] Michael Doherty: Because earlier in that same episode, when he was when he was following behind them. I think just before they entered the sanctuary of the gods. He made some comment and Pugface started laughing, and she said, Oh, Herman, I forgot you were here, bud. Keep forgetting you're here, bud. And then the second she wakes up from being injured. Is Herman there? Is Herman okay? Is Herman with us? And like, yeah.

[55:15] Alex Keiper: Oh god, it just made us come back.

[55:17] Michael Doherty: Beautiful, beautiful little moment. Again, another like episode arc where like the sort of loop gets complete. I think it was also sort of the moment where we we were like, Herman might be in this for the long haul. I don't know. Like I don't I don't know if we can tear them away from him without having a really good reason to. So, you know, we'll we'll make sure and take care of that storyline, whatever happens. Um yeah, and then they're they're met with uh Simon Crab, uh medieval defense attorney.

[55:44] Alex Keiper: Medieval defense attorney.

[55:45] Michael Doherty: He's got a K-Ren by his side.

[55:46] Alex Keiper: Yep, same K-Ren who Joe Costa ran into in the second episode, beginning of the second episode, that she sent her mother a message.

[55:54] Michael Doherty: And she's got a message back from Minerva, which is amazing.

[55:57] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[55:58] Michael Doherty: She says, I love you, I trust you, do what you need to do to take care of our farm.

[56:03] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[56:03] Michael Doherty: Uh and so with that, Joe Costa feels resolved, feels like her mom knows what she's doing and she can move forward. And Simon's confidence. And Simon Crab kind of explains that uh he's gonna be representing them. They're about to do this a thing called a trial, which uh, you know, you're gonna learn a lot more about.

[56:20] Alex Keiper: You certainly will.

[56:21] Michael Doherty: Um dramaturgically speaking, trials were not a thing of the time. Trials uh were mostly like torture, like you know, it like a trial as we know it today did not come into existence for a while after, you know, the medieval.

[56:35] Alex Keiper: Right.

[56:35] Michael Doherty: It was usually just torture to get someone to confess. So they were just assuming you were guilty and then they'd torture you until you told them either that you did it or who did do it. But here they are preparing for like a sort of anachronistic modern trial as we understand it. And sort of putting their case together.

[56:53] Alex Keiper: Which is also true to the podcast, right? We're we're using a lot of we Oh yeah. We did our dramaturgical work and went through the different things that they might be working with in the medieval or in medieval times and like trying to figure out what kind of weapons they'd have or whatever, what kind of food they'd be eating.

[57:08] Michael Doherty: But also we wanted to make sure that this felt current and today.

[57:12] Alex Keiper: And for sure. And I think the um the bait of doing a trial of the Boars Dead 5 right after the uh

[57:14] Michael Doherty: Yeah, yeah. When we were recording this, we had just watched uh the trial of the Chicago Seven.

[57:28] Alex Keiper: So it felt it felt ripe for the picking.

[57:30] Michael Doherty: Really did. Which of course is is the tease uh at the end of the episode.

[57:35] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[57:35] Michael Doherty: Um but yeah, so Simon gets to sort of like prepare them a little bit mentally for what's about to unfold.

[57:41] Alex Keiper: Yeah.

[57:42] Michael Doherty: And then uh asks them their first big uh thing that they get to choose in how this trial is gonna go down, which is uh who they want their character witness to be.

[57:50] Alex Keiper: Right.

[57:51] Michael Doherty: Um, which they choose, none other than Sheriff Gutendell.

[57:54] Alex Keiper: Or Michael Cain with a cold.

[57:56] Michael Doherty: Michael Cain with a cold. Who who sort of parted ways with a very uh very sacron sweet, like a almost a little sad, uh, talking about how little time he he had to any how much he was willing to spend time with people he loved.

[58:12] Alex Keiper: As we've said in previous episodes of Shoot the Loot, she is our resident nonverbal responder.

[58:18] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[58:18] Alex Keiper: And her understanding of what he was saying when he said, I love to get out and see people that I love. And she just goes, Oh.

[58:27] Michael Doherty: Yeah, that's exactly it. Like it hits her really hard. She's like sad and flattering. She feels like the pain of it. It's pretty spectacular.

[58:39] Alex Keiper: So they summon uh Sheriff G to be their character witness. Kathy the K-Ren flies out of the cell, and before Simon Crab can say another word, a big burly guard opens the dungeon door and says, Please do follow me.

[58:54] Michael Doherty: The trial of the boarst dead five is about to begin.

[58:58] Alex Keiper: And that is where we end our episode.

[59:00] Michael Doherty: Yeah, an exciting cliffhanger uh into uh, you know, into E4, which to uh give a tease without giving any sort of spoiler, I'll say is maybe one of the most uh unique episodes we have planned, certainly in the first half of our first season.

[59:17] Alex Keiper: Definitely.

[59:17] Michael Doherty: Now, something else I'll say is that um our endings are three endings that we've had so far. Uh our first one ends with Maris bursting through the temple, yeah, creating sort of a devastating but like awe-inspired moment for our players. Provoked by a song.

[59:34] Alex Keiper: Provoked by a song.

[59:36] Michael Doherty: Uh they don't totally know how to deal with it, but everybody in the audience and all the players kind of understand it's not a good thing, what just happened, right? Like some horror, he's gonna go destroy the denia. And then the second episode, we end with this amazingly uplifting moment of provoked by a song.

[59:48] Alex Keiper: Provoked by a song.

[59:55] Michael Doherty: Where they are singing, they are doing their first song as a band, they are getting a lot of great feedback. They've played something really awesome and they feel really accomplished. So the difference between how they left those two episodes was pretty stark. And now this one, again, they're sort of being faced with something that they don't know how to do.

[1:00:18] Alex Keiper: So even though it feels like something that in our world might not feel as horrifying as a god bursting through a ceiling and saying he's gonna destroy the entirety of Adenia, they are now going to be immediately put on it on trial.

[1:00:32] Michael Doherty: Yeah.

[1:00:33] Alex Keiper: And they are going to have to deal with it in some way.

[1:00:35] Michael Doherty: Very, very out of their element. Very different kind of fear. And sort of like, you know, the chickens come home to roost, right? Like every decision that they made in the first three episodes uh is sort of laid out in these sort of accusations by the defense attorney, right? Like you're accused of uh incitement of the apocalypse, uh resisting arrest, uh uh deceiving the officers of the law, uh, uh obstruction of justice.

[1:01:03] Alex Keiper: Uh-huh.

[1:01:04] Michael Doherty: Um 52 counts of murder most foul.

[1:01:07] Alex Keiper: 52 counts of murder most foul.

[1:01:09] Michael Doherty: So it's like uh that's like all of their uh things that they've done, you know, or now and in D&D, there are consequences, as as every player knows, you can't do something without it affecting someone else or affecting something else in the game. So this is ha this is a huge consequence that they are now facing.

[1:01:30] Alex Keiper: Yeah, I I feel very, I think we've talked about this a little bit before, very inspired by the idea of the morality game and this, you know, this trial. Uh the idea of the trial is certainly uh very inspired by that.

[1:01:42] Michael Doherty: Selena Knight says, as long as Herman stays silent and doesn't beatbox, they sound like they will be okay.

[1:01:48] Alex Keiper: You might be right.

[1:01:49] Michael Doherty: You may be right. We'll find out we'll see how it all goes down. Uh, you know, as we've said, some of them are great at talking to people, and others are not as great at talking to people. So there's there's a lot to learn.

[1:02:02] Alex Keiper: There's a lot to uh wonder about.

[1:02:04] Michael Doherty: Yeah, and so excited to be. We're hard at work on it. Uh for everyone listening, uh on our actual podcast streaming services, we'll be at you with that episode next week, as I said. Can't wait to get it to you.

[1:02:18] Alex Keiper: Oh, yes, yes, yes, for everyone listening now. For our Twitchers, you won't see it for two weeks.

[1:02:24] Michael Doherty: Uh and yeah, Patreoners.

[1:02:26] Alex Keiper: Uh Patreoners, yeah, for two weeks.

[1:02:28] Michael Doherty: Uh, but yeah, that's the plan, y'all. We can't wait to bring it to you. Um, and uh thank you so much for tuning in to shoot the loot.

[1:02:31] Alex Keiper: Thank you.

[1:02:35] Michael Doherty: We love you, and we'll talk to y'all soon.

[1:02:37] Alex Keiper: See y'all next time.