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[0:00] Jayke Workman: Time was once measured in BC. And now it is measured in BCC. Before Cowboy Carter and after.

[0:18] Jayke Workman: Oh my god, did you hear? Did you hear? Did you hear? Oh my god, guys. Oh my god, oh my god, you guys. What's up, everybody? My name is Jayke Workman, and this is Oh My Pod U Guys, a musical theater and pop culture podcast. You guys, hi! How are you? I'm sorry it's been so long. Thank you all for being so patient. I know um all like nine of you are, you know, really, really chomping at the bit ready for my uh latest episode. So, uh, thank you so much for your patience. I have been on an amazing contract in Washington, DC. I have been working on A Wrinkle In Time, the world premiere musical, and it has been so much fun, so rewarding. I've had so many amazing visitors, um, you know, people in my life who have come from near and far to see this amazing show, and I've had such a joy getting to know and work with this entire cast and crew.

Um, but it has meant putting the pod on the back burner for a hot second, which sucks, and I'm so excited to be back with a very special interview with one Amber Gray, uh, whom I adore. Um, but yeah, I just want to say, hi, Missia, what's new? We of course have to dive into this week's BroadwayWorld Recap, brought to you by my amazing pals at Broadwayworld.com because there is much going on in the theater world outside of my little bubble of regional theater in DC. So, let's dive in.

[1:57] Jayke Workman: Okay, first, before we get into the actual, you know, Broadway and theater nitty gritty, I just have to, we just have to get the elephant uh in the room addressed. Cowboy Carter, you guys, you guys, uh, you know if you listen to the pod, or honestly, probably if you don't, that I am uh a Beyoncé stan. She's my everything. I adore her. Uh, and I had the incredible pleasure of seeing the Cowboy Carter Tour in Washington, DC with my darling angel, Miss Leanne Antonio. We went together. Uh, it was extraordinary. I didn't think that anything could top the Renaissance tour, which I saw twice. Um, and this one really, really did me in. The vocals were unlike anything I have ever heard live. Beyoncé is uh the greatest entertainer and vocalist of all time.

And I will honestly hear no uh opinions uh other than that. So um, thank you so much. That's why this is my podcast and not yours. Uh, you guys, if you have the opportunity to see the Cowboy Carter Tour, run to see this tour. The vocals, the dancing, the visuals, the costumes. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable. She cannot be topped, and that's on period.

[3:21] Jayke Workman: Okay, now, theater, theater. Okay, so obviously, much has happened, and uh, you know, we're we're a little late to the game. I am a little late to the game, but the hottest, newest announcements. You guys, you guys, my darling Diva, dear Miss Kaylee Capaldi, friend of the pod, has just been announced as the new Maria in the Sound of Music National Tour directed by Jack O'Brien. You guys. Oh my god. Oh my god. I adore Miss Kaylee Capaldi. Kaylee, hi! If you're listening, you know I adore you. I talk about it all the time. Uh, this is perfect casting. Kaylee Capaldi as Maria in The Sound of Music. It's going to be unbelievable. Sweet Angel Kaylee is going to be joined by Kevin Early as the captain.

Christiane Knoll as Mother Abbys, who is incredible. Her Diana in Next to Normal is uh etched into my brain. Uh, Nicholas Rodriguez is going to play Max. Kate Lawprest is going to be Queen Elsa Schrader. And Ariana Firch is going to be Liesel von Trapp. And sweet Ian Kersey is gonna be Rolf. You guys, this show is going to be amazing. I cannot wait to see it. And I have a few other little secrets about some very special people in my life who I know who will also be joining them on tour. And I cannot wait to share those details with you when they are announced.

[4:53] Jayke Workman: Next, you guys, Broadway World shared the really sad announcement uh that Connie Francis, Queen Icon, recording artist and actress, passed away just a few hours ago, uh, at the age of 87. And it's just wild that she is currently being portrayed on Broadway by Gracie Lawrence in Just In Time, but um, sending love to everyone who knew and adored Connie Francis. What an amazing woman. Uh, and how special that her legacy gets to live on in a show right now on Broadway. So, huge shout out to Just In Time and sending love and light to all who knew Miss Connie Francis.

[5:33] Jayke Workman: And next, Broadway World also shared that yes, true of everything, all good things must come to an end. Audra McDonald's Gypsy will close on Broadway on August 17th. I am so bummed for the cast and crew of the show because I know so many of them personally, and I know how much they have poured their love and hard work into this show. But this is not a downer because they've had an amazing run. They were nominated for Tonys. They have done just incredible things with this beautiful, beautiful revival. So sending a huge congratulations to this cast on what is almost a year-long run on Broadway that is just so incredible. Uh, and you know, of course, Icon Audra McDonald, we will just see what's next. I cannot imagine that she will be bogged down by the closing of this incredible revival. So huge congratulations to everyone. Andy Einhorn, I adore you. Uh, and everyone in the cast who I I know and love. Congratulations.

[6:40] Jayke Workman: Next, you guys, okay. I think I am late to the game on this, and I don't think that I even had an episode of the pod when this was announced first, but Jinkx Monsoon, Icon Queen Divastar Legend, who I have gotten the absolute privilege of uh working with in Chicago on Broadway. Uh, uh it was just announced that Jinkx is going to star as Mary Todd Lincoln in O'Marry on Broadway. You guys, this is gonna be insane. But it was also just announced that she is going to be joined by Kuma Langiani as Mary's husband, Michael Urie as Mary's teacher, and Jen Harris as Mary's chaperone. You guys. I've only seen the show once. I don't know how. I have got to go back, and this has to be the cast that I see.

I got to meet sweet Michael Urie at the opening night of Just In Time on Broadway. Of course, naturally, in true Jayke Workman fashion, I just stroll over to him like, oh yeah, you know, we're old pals. I tap him on the shoulder and I go, Brendan, and he goes, Michael. I it's okay, I get that a lot. I called Michael Urie Brendan Urie. Just shoot me now. Uh he could not have been nicer, and we had a lovely conversation after that. But uh, you know, full foot in mouth. Thank you, Jayke Workman. Um, yeah, I cannot wait to see this incredible cast of O'Marry on Broadway. And you guys, this has been a little kooky crazy BroadwayWorld Recap. Oh my pod, you guys. I am so excited to have you here. Oh please welcome my my next guest to the pod, a star of the stage and screen, truly. A Tony nominee, an Outer Critics Circle winner. Cheetah Rivera Award nominee. Thank you for that one. Drama League nominee. Amber Gray is here. Amber! Thank you so much for coming on the pod.

[8:47] Amber Gray: My pleasure. I have wanted you to do this for so long.

[8:49] Jayke Workman: I know. And I have had the pleasure of getting to get to know you on, you know, an artistic level and like a friendship level over the last now like year-ish, because of two iterations of the show we're doing, which is A Wrinkle In Time. Out of town at Arena Stage. Um, but before we begin, you know, I always ask where people are calling from, but would you tell us what is what is the circumstance in which we are recording?

[9:14] Amber Gray: Yes. All right, it's a two doshea. Tudo conference. Tudo che. And I have to say the first dough was at noon. It was. It was at noon. Which is so weird. I don't think I've ever had an experience like this. Other than many noon shows. Yeah, or like doing children's shows where that's the norm. It's like a 10 a.m. and a noon or something. But like this is I don't mind it. I just wish the later show were earlier.

[9:40] Jayke Workman: Me too. That's all. I loved when we had that 6 p.m.

[9:43] Amber Gray: Oh, gorgeous. Dreamy.

[9:45] Jayke Workman: Yeah. Uh yeah, we're a Tudoche. We're in between shows. And how do you feel?

[9:49] Amber Gray: And we're in Jayke's tiny little dorm room.

[9:53] Jayke Workman: My gorgeous housing.

[9:55] Amber Gray: Yeah, your housing.

[9:56] Jayke Workman: Yes. For Arena.

[9:57] Amber Gray: Yeah. Um, so because it is a Tudoche, I'd love to just dive right in and talk about Wrinkle. Obviously, I want to go back and hear your history with it, but like since we're in the throes of it and we're almost done now. Wow. How does it feel I guess comparatively to other tracks and roles and things that you've helped create and originate? Like what is what is your day in, day out like in terms of Wrinkle? Is it strenuous?

[10:25] Amber Gray: I mean, I kind of feel like you can do anything at this point vocally and physically. So I'm like Mrs. Whatsit, she's old hat for you.

[10:30] Amber Gray: It's not strenuous, which I'm super grateful for. I mean, the three misses backstage, we spent a lot of time giggling off stage to go. Of course. And acknowledging and honoring the fact that like we're in princess tracks. And I don't know in all my years if I've ever had a princess track.

[10:49] Amber Gray: Yeah. I definitely have had roles of this size before, but I've been in a lot of productions where no matter what you remain on stage, sure. You sort of teach the audience how to watch the show. As an actor you are watching, you sort of teach them how they should be reacting to it, you know. Um this is my first time where I ever just straight up like sit backstage for like an hour and it's wild. And I I mean, as you know, it took me a few weeks to even get used to it. I couldn't, I was like, what do I do with myself? And I would just stand in the wings behind the music director who's conducting, and I'm like in the conductor monitor, like dancing, rocking out, which we all look for, by the way. Being able to see you up behind if not, it's really annoying.

[11:31] Amber Gray: Um Yeah, I just like didn't know. I was like, well, if I can't be on stage, I still have to go watch. I did that for a few weeks. Yeah. And then I slowly have been like, I guess I'll like order that thing for my kid. Send an email. That feels kind of weird and wrong. Like if we were to do this for a year, I think I would try to have some discipline around that. I mean, it's certainly was sort of like a nice reminder that we're all doing the thing. Like when I would watch you and Stacy and sometimes Vicky like all go out and watch this big section in Act Two.

[12:02] Amber Gray: Um, which is a really beautiful section of the show, but I have never seen it. So it was like a lovely thing to like see you guys go out there and be like, ah, they're gonna go and watch it and and stay with it, you know, stay with the yeah, the arc of the show.

[12:13] Jayke Workman: Yes. Cause it it is easy. I mean, you obviously know in terms of like doing a long run of a show where like if you let it slip away from you, it becomes just nothing.

[12:25] Amber Gray: It becomes robotic and you're not even like clocked in.

[12:28] Jayke Workman: I know, and I don't know that I've ever been one of those actors that's like zoning out and thinking of like my laundry or whatever. I can't really do that either. I'm not that way, but I will say it is super helpful to remain on stage the whole time to stay in it.

[12:40] Amber Gray: Yes. And it is true that for a while we did have to go watch just to understand the arc of it. Like it really the first few times we watched it in the from the house, I was like, Oh, that's how we then enter that one scene before you were born. Like I didn't understand tonally how to enter that scene until we watched.

[12:55] Amber Gray: Yeah for a while. With the audience to like really understand it.

[13:04] Jayke Workman: Totally. You yeah, if you don't know the player in, even style wise or tone, like can get dangerous.

[13:11] Amber Gray: Oh yeah. You're like everyone's in a different show. It's yeah, it gets really weird. So I'm grateful that our cast was like, Well, what do we do now? I guess we'll go watch.

[13:18] Amber Gray: I guess we'll watch. Especially with something as you know, complex uh physically and uh musically as this show. There are so many moving parts, but you know, musically so many moving parts.

[13:30] Amber Gray: Like our conductors and our MDs and musicians are like just doing a million things at once. But I would love to ask you about your history with this show slash like this creative team. Because I feel like, well, I guess I really don't know like how who you first were connected with or or if if you were at all before Wrinkle.

[13:51] Amber Gray: Yeah. There were a handful of them. Basically Heather Christian, who I've known since twenty ten.

[13:57] Amber Gray: Heather is the reason I started doing musicals, to be totally honest with you. Like out of grad school, I saw a show she was in called Mission Drift that the team had made, which is like a Brooklyn based theater company that does pieces by devising the material.

[14:12] Amber Gray: And it takes them like five years to build a show. Which is a pretty typical process for a new piece, right? And I saw her perform in that show and fell in love with her. And then basically six months later they had lost some women, rolled that part into one role and I auditioned for it.

[14:42] Amber Gray: Um, she was my roommate and no way. So I basically lived with her all over the world internationally for a year. And that was basically it was the team's first attempt at writing a musical, but it was mostly a play with music. Um, and that's kind of like people from that theater community heard me sing in that show and that's sort of what led to Great Comet. It's like it all kind of dominoed. Yeah. Community is all friends with each other.

[14:54] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[15:05] Amber Gray: Um, so Heather called me in fall of twenty twenty two. She was like, I was commissioned to write music for Wrinkle in Time and I've always been crazy about her music. She's my favorite composer. Yes. Um, so of course I said yes. And then I figured out over the course of the next week or two that Lee Sundy Evans was the director who I went to college with. I think Lee was a freshman when I was a junior at Boston University. Wow. But it's my first time working with her as a director and then and I have remained loosely in touch with Lee mostly because of her husband Daniel Kluger.

[15:35] Yeah.

[15:36] Amber Gray: Who did the orchestrations for Oklahoma that I worked on forever. Yeah. So she's like been around for a long time even though I haven't been able to work with her yet. Right. And then Diana Demina called me who I had worked with on Great Comet. She was like third or fourth in line on Great Comet as lead producer. And um, you know, saying she was one of the lead producers for Wrinkle and we she was like, We're trying to expedite this one. And I was like, Right, so in four years it's gonna be like expedite. It means like four or five years. Right. So I was like, yeah, yeah, holding my breath.

[16:06] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[16:07] Amber Gray: Um, yeah, there you go. That's so wild.

[16:08] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[16:09] Amber Gray: Because I I mean, it's always so like exciting and interesting to me to sort of like clock everyone's different journey to a show. Totally. And how it, you know, uh it's not a nepotism thing. It's a we worked together ten years ago thing. And so we have that trust and rapport and we know each other's musicianship and we know how each other operates. So it's less about like, oh, I just know this person, I trust them, let's do it. It's like, oh no, I intrinsically know that if I'm writing something, I have this person's voice in mind and all of that, which is so amazing.

[16:44] Amber Gray: Somebody told me when I was a kid and I didn't understand it then, but now as you know, somebody's been around for a while, I think it's brilliant advice. They were like, You're not gonna meet someone who's gonna make your career. Like, look to your right, look to your left. The people you know now are the people you know.

[16:56] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[16:57] Amber Gray: And they are gonna be the all of the award winners in, you know, playwriting, directing, best film, whatever. Yes. Yes. Like they you will grow up with your peers and they will be the ones that are the makers. And I really feel that way the older I get. I'm like, I know everyone in New York anyway.

[17:13] Jayke Workman: Yeah that I would like to know.

[17:15] Amber Gray: Yes, making the kind of theater I want to be making. I was even talking to um Leanne about that, who I did have on the pod like a year ago now.

[17:22] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[17:23] Amber Gray: Um, because she often like purports that about um University of Michigan because there's like a lot of talk, and we can of course talk about NYU and and Boston University.

[17:34] Jayke Workman: Yes, mafia culture.

[17:35] Amber Gray: But you do have that like really important element of like look to your left, look to your right. These people, you never know. They'll stick around.

[17:42] Jayke Workman: Yes, and like what they're gonna level up and do someday.

[17:46] Amber Gray: It's just amazing. So before you were Broadway's Amber Gray, I do know that you were a uh a military child.

[17:57] Jayke Workman: Yes, baby.

[17:58] Amber Gray: And I would love to hear about the journey from there to being an artist.

[18:04] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[18:05] Amber Gray: Because those things in like the Venn diagram in my brain don't exactly.

[18:08] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[18:09] Amber Gray: I don't understand that. How did you get there? Was it was art a part of your life, even though you were like also traveling around and Yeah, you know, so many people ask this question, and it's funny because I have met a lot of other actors who are some kind of military brat, which like whatever is a term people on the outside sometimes take issue with. I don't care. I'm an army brat. Your lady's in it. You can say I'm in it. Reclaiming my time.

[18:32] Amber Gray: Exactly. I mean, between the two households, right? Because it was my mom and then my dad and my stepmom, all three of my parents were army in different branches of the army. And so between the two households, they were both moving every three or four years.

[18:46] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[18:47] Amber Gray: So it was a lot of moving around, and then visiting the other household who's like had also recently moved to a new place. Lots of bouncing around. And for a deeply shy child, that was difficult for me. I also spent a lot of formative years in Germany, lived in four different cities in Germany growing up. I lived in Berlin when the wall was still up.

[19:05] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[19:06] Amber Gray: Um, and so in Germany, you ski. It's a pedestrian sport there, it's not a rich people's sport.

[19:11] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[19:12] Amber Gray: So at three, they put a helmet on you, no poles, just shove you down the mountain. And like outs. There's no like double black diamond. Like, like they're not like this trail might be difficult. There's no like orange tape to be like this is a cliff to your death. It's like they just shove you down the Alps, you hope for the best.

[19:28] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[19:29] Amber Gray: There's a blizzard, they're like, Yeah, you might make it to the bottom.

[19:31] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[19:32] Amber Gray: Exactly. So you just grow up skiing there. So when I came back to the States, I was on ski team.

[19:39] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[19:40] Amber Gray: Kids were jerks because they were like bred to be competitive, right? So I played field hockey, lacrosse, soccer. They were just too competitive for my taste. I was a really shy kid. It was not good for me. It was not where I was making my friends, right? So my it was my mother who in high school was like, maybe she'd do the play.

[19:59] Amber Gray: And um, yeah, it just so happened. I was in Wayland, Massachusetts, and the guy who ran the theater department there who has since retired is incredible. His name's Richard Weingartner. He wrote a book recently. I read it just weeping, like remembering all of his sort of yeah, just just brilliant things he taught us that I still use that I don't necessarily pin to him specifically, but they are from him.

[20:20] Jayke Workman: Yeah, just like inherent.

[20:21] Amber Gray: Absolutely. Yeah, and a couple of things he really believes is it is a team sport, and you're as good as your weakest link, and you give the weakest link the lead until they get better.

[20:30] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[20:31] Amber Gray: And so I had the lead three shows in a row. And like the seniors would stay after, and they're like, You're so bad. They would stay after for an extra hour and rehearse with me. So I kind of naively thought there was this sense of camaraderie in the theater.

[20:45] Jayke Workman: I mean, that can be true.

[20:46] Amber Gray: Sure. But when you when you're paying your bills with theater, when it becomes about like survival and commerce, that's not always true, right? But when you're just like in school doing it for the art, it's it's only camaraderie in the community, right?

[21:00] Jayke Workman: Um so it was beautiful.

[21:03] Amber Gray: I was like, this is a place I want to be, right? And it accepts all the freaks and geeks, no questions asked, I always say. And yeah, I w I very quickly over those four years, like wanted to do it with my life. I applied for BFA program right out of school. My parents had saved all this money for me to go to college, and they were like, You can major in acting. Like, that's absurd. We didn't want you to work for the government in any capacity.

[21:24] Jayke Workman: Right.

[21:25] Amber Gray: But what do you mean you want to be an actor?

[21:26] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[21:27] Amber Gray: Yeah. They were like, hold on. So they didn't quite believe me at first. And to prove a point, which I do appreciate, you know, in retrospect, they were like, go to state school for a year where it's free. T. I went to US Amherst. They were like, pull up your grades and get a scholarship to go if you really want it. And I did.

[21:41] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[21:42] Amber Gray: So a year later I transferred to BU and um then they gave me all the money.

[21:46] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[21:47] Amber Gray: It was really wild. All the money that was like meant for school. So I had scholarship money and some savings money and it worked out. But yeah, my junior and senior year of high school, I I just dealt with a lot of depression. I had a truancy officer. So I like just straight up, I was a very good student until I dealt with depression for the first time.

[22:04] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[22:05] Amber Gray: And then I just quite literally stopped going to school. Uh-huh. And I would only go to rehearsals after, which you're not always. So I had a truancy officer for a while, and I was like, who gets I don't need that school.

[22:14] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[22:15] Amber Gray: But then yeah, I had very poor grades junior and senior years. So I would like get into a couple of conservatories, but get zero money to attend the university parts.

[22:22] Jayke Workman: Sure, sure, sure.

[22:23] Amber Gray: Hence the UMass Amherst uh detour. But how amazing that there was literally just the the like biological desire and need to do it.

[22:34] Jayke Workman: Art and theater.

[22:36] Amber Gray: Because I feel like a lot of times people, I mean, not to use this term in this way, like a negative way, but like people are groomed, you know, like when you're a child and you're set up for interesting career. And you were like, oh no, no, that's not what it was for me.

[22:52] Jayke Workman: Absolutely not.

[22:53] Amber Gray: I wanted it and I needed it. I I really needed it for social reasons and to kind of come out of my shell. I had no friends. It was the only way to make friends for me. It was a survival tactic.

[23:02] Jayke Workman: Yeah, right.

[23:03] Amber Gray: Yeah. And then I just fell in love with the art of it. Um and then, you know, and then I went to a really obnoxious conservatory where kids were also competitive, right?

[23:13] Jayke Workman: Then that was my first exposure with competition amongst actors.

[23:17] Amber Gray: And I was like, this sucks. This sucks.

[23:19] Jayke Workman: Um, and I went thinking I'd be the weak link again and I'd learn a lot. And then I went and I was one of the strongest links, and then I became the black sheep.

[23:26] Amber Gray: I was just like the girl chain smoking in the corner, like glaring at everyone.

[23:30] Jayke Workman: Uh was?

[23:33] Amber Gray: Yeah.

[23:34] Jayke Workman: Wasn't no longer?

[23:37] Amber Gray: No, no, no. Those days are long gone.

[23:40] Jayke Workman: Um my god.

[23:41] Amber Gray: Yeah. Wow. Okay, so cut to you make it through your undergrad.

[23:46] Jayke Workman: Yeah, then you go to grad school.

[23:47] Amber Gray: That was at NYU.

[23:49] Jayke Workman: So post all of your like training.

[23:52] Amber Gray: Yeah. Were you did you feel like, okay, I've done it. I'm ready to actually apply all the things that I've been fucking like trudging through.

[24:02] Amber Gray: In fairness, I was ready after undergrad. I had three years between undergrad and grad.

[24:06] Jayke Workman: Okay.

[24:06] Amber Gray: And I was a Williamstown gal. I went to Williamstown every summer.

[24:09] Jayke Workman: Nice.

[24:10] Amber Gray: Um, I went to Boston University undergrad. They used to be affiliated with Williamstown back in the day. That's no longer true. But I came to New York in 2004, like totally ready to go, wanting everything to work out, but didn't really have a lot of access, didn't really have great representation. It was just a square wheel going uphill.

[24:28] Jayke Workman: And my friends from Williamstown, a lot of those there's like a uh kind of dare I say sweatshop labor tier.

[24:40] Amber Gray: I can't I was about to say something way more mean. Um what is like called the apprenticeship? There's that tier, and then there are a couple of other like non-ec companies there. I was in some of those other non-ec companies while I was there, and most of those companies were made up of kids that went to Juilliard, NYU grad, and Yale grad.

[24:56] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[24:57] Amber Gray: And those three programs have a lot of the same teachers. And I watched them work all summer, and I really fell in love with a handful of kids that I later figured out all went to NYU grad.

[25:06] Jayke Workman: And I was like, what is in the water there?

[25:08] Amber Gray: And one of those kids just called me in like January of 2007.

[25:20] Jayke Workman: So this is like I've been out of undergrad for maybe two and a half years, three years or something.

[25:24] Amber Gray: Called me in January, and he was like, yo, they saw their 2,000 kids, they left open six slots because they feel like they didn't find enough minorities that they really love. So they're asking every second year, third year, and faculty member to recommend one person.

[25:39] Jayke Workman: He's like, Here's the catch.

[25:41] Amber Gray: You have two days to prepare six monologues in a song, but if you get in, they'll pay your tuition. And I was like, deal. Deal.

[25:46] Amber Gray: And I auditioned for Zelda Fitzchandler, who started Arena Stage.

[25:50] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[25:51] Amber Gray: I auditioned for Victor Pappas, Zelda Fitch Chandler, and Janet Zarash. Those three. I only did two monologues, never did a classical piece. They were like, It says you can sing. I was like, Do you want gospel or you want musical theater?

[26:00] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[26:01] Amber Gray: They're like, We want gospels, okay? Sang a song. They called me back the next day, and then I did like a 30-minute improv with a kid who also ended up being in my class.

[26:08] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[26:09] Amber Gray: It was really wild. And they called me that night. They're like, You can come if you want. And I looked, I looked at my boyfriend that night. I've only ever lived with two men, my baby daddy and this other man.

[26:18] Jayke Workman: Period.

[26:19] Amber Gray: And the other man, I looked at him and I was like, We're gonna break up.

[26:20] Jayke Workman: Why would you say that?

[26:21] Amber Gray: And I'm like, You are about to I'm gonna be there 80 hours a week. You're gonna feel like I'm having an affair with this whole program.

[26:27] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[26:28] Amber Gray: And we made it like a year and then we broke up. And he's still my friend. I still see him a lot.

[26:31] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[26:32] Amber Gray: And so then I went to grad school for three years.

[26:35] Jayke Workman: So to answer your question, I don't think acting is rocket science.

[26:40] Amber Gray: Yeah. I don't know that it needs seven years of study, but I'm super grateful. I have had so much training and in various mediums and and and techniques.

[26:55] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[26:56] Amber Gray: Like it really has ranged over the years, and I'm super grateful for that because then when I got out, I was very cleanly able to be like, I tried everything to my best ability. Fifth this this 40% really works for me, and that's what I'm gonna go with. This other 60% I'm gonna let go.

[27:10] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[27:11] Amber Gray: And I I don't know that I had enough tools available to me to be able to say that out of undergrad.

[27:18] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[27:19] Amber Gray: I needed more tools to be able to choose.

[27:21] Jayke Workman: Yeah. Well, and I would imagine I I mean, I guess this is switching gears a little bit too, but to to be someone, or I guess maybe I don't even know if you feel this way, but like to be someone like Amber Gray, who is associated with certain things, like Hades Town, which we must talk about.

[27:41] Amber Gray: Um, but also like the uh notoriety of like being nominated for the Tony or um having a hand in creating something like that.

[27:50] Jayke Workman: Do you is there a pressure um that you maybe didn't feel before that?

[27:57] Amber Gray: Like, is there a um a pressure now?

[28:00] Jayke Workman: Yeah, or like, or even just like uh being associated with something like that.

[28:05] Amber Gray: Like does it feel different than when you were working before all of that happened to you?

[28:14] Jayke Workman: No, that didn't honestly, NYU feels like the turning point in my life, not Hades Town.

[28:20] Amber Gray: Um when I I've been very grateful. I and again, it's that mafia stuff, right?

[28:25] Jayke Workman: Like somebody said while we were in grad school, like you have to be a real jerk to not work when you get out of here.

[28:30] Amber Gray: Which I was like, cool, cool. Genius. That should be on a bumper sticker.

[28:34] Jayke Workman: I know.

[28:35] Amber Gray: Yeah. I know. And I since 2010 have always had a job, and I always know what my next one is. Like, and I'm super grateful for that.

[28:40] Jayke Workman: And I plan.

[28:41] Amber Gray: That is Kantiana. My Yeah. I live. I always have some theater gig. And I'm super grateful for that. And I've loved my theater career, and I do feel like I pick the stuff I want to do.

[28:55] Jayke Workman: And it just so happens that like a handful of my like weirdo downtown picks became big hits, which I never thought going in and never um was holding my breath waiting for.

[29:06] Amber Gray: Sure. You know. Hadesown was some weird phenomenon that I always knew it was that good and sort of worthy of that level of attention, but some of it is a little too much. Now I I feel resentful sometimes like when I come out of the stage door here, and all people want to talk about is Hades Town.

[29:21] Amber Gray: I'm like, yeah, but I just did A Wrinkle in Time for you. So would you like to talk about that? Because we could talk about that.

[29:26] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[29:26] Amber Gray: I have no need to talk about Hadestown.

[29:29] Jayke Workman: Um naturally I'm like, so tell me about Hadestown.

[29:33] Amber Gray: Yeah, that's funny. I do really put shows to bed though. I'm like, I don't know, man. You know, well, sure. So it's funny when people want to like talk about something from my past. I'm like, that's what I love about theater, and it's also my hard wiring as an army brat. Like it's ephemeral, it evaporates, and I like that about it.

[29:49] Jayke Workman: Absolutely.

[29:49] Amber Gray: Um it's not still here. So why are we talking about it?

[29:53] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[29:55] Amber Gray: Um well, in like a parallel vein of thinking not only of Hadestown, but any other show that you have done, or I guess specifically any musical, you I feel like have also really been like people have come to know your style and your sound. And you're a very singular individual musician and vocalist, and I would love to know like where did that come from anywhere in particular. Did you have teachers who encouraged you to not meld yourself into a sound, you know, from previous things in your life?

[30:31] Amber Gray: Bless you. Well, first of all, it's so fascinating to do interviews like this and hear other people's opinions of your own. I mean, I'm sure I'm like in my own head, I'm not saying any other shit. I'm like, I've written a book report on it. Um, I mean, I just like what's burned into my brain is Richard Conti, my rest in peace, Richard, my high school chorus teacher always looking at me being like, Amber, you look like you're in pain when you sing, because I would make insane faces to like squeeze certain notes out, right? Um, and I just resent that to this day, and I think about it a lot. It like still haunts me in this, you know, those little imprints you can as a child.

[31:07] Jayke Workman: Of course.

[31:08] Amber Gray: Um funny, and I love singing, but it is a physical athletic event, and I have my range has grown so much in the last decade, which is really cool. Like it's straight up a muscle, and if you exercise it every day, hell yeah, it grows and grows and grows, which I've loved that about my instrument. I mean, I share with students all the time in like student talkbacks when they want to know things. I'm like, especially a group of actors who aren't necessarily in school for specifically musical theater. Yeah, I'm like, listen, the Broadway musical is where you're gonna have a true savings, not the Broadway play. So if you can sing at all, sing every day. Get in there, sing every day.

[31:45] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[31:45] Amber Gray: And when I got out of grad school, I was not a good enough singer to be like going in for musical auditions. I couldn't compete with a lot of what other people were doing.

[31:56] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[31:57] Amber Gray: And when I first auditioned for Great Comet, there were a couple of notes I did not have in my main song as Melane, but they didn't care. They liked me the most as the best actor for that role.

[32:06] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[32:06] Amber Gray: The people who auditioned. And after six months, I could sing that song.

[32:11] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[32:11] Amber Gray: So it's like really wonderful to see my range stretch like that. And as far as how I think, I don't know. It's just like whatever sound comes out. I feel like over the years I have physically started to understand how to place my voice. I don't like sometimes people think I'm like making a certain sound on purpose. I'm like, no, it's just like how I understand how to get the note out. I'm not trying to I don't really know what else to say about it.

[32:37] Jayke Workman: Um I love that because it is obviously just so like you, it's so naturally what you do, and so I think like that's a really special thing to have and to maybe not even necessarily be conscious of all the time, because we I think now the industry and the expectations of like what it means to be a commercial actor, like working in commercial Broadway theater is to sound like someone else. If someone can pigeonhole you into, well, they're this type. That's an alphabet, that's a whoever, you know.

[33:18] Amber Gray: And you, I mean, I think now, probably shamelessly, people are like, I want to be immigrant.

[33:24] Jayke Workman: Well, but like you are.

[33:25] Amber Gray: I mean, in that sense, I'm grateful I came in kind of through the back door, or however you want to joke about it. Like it was weirdo downtown musicals that somebody with money saw, and they were like, actually, let's try to make this commercial.

[33:37] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[33:37] Amber Gray: Which I'm so grateful for because if I had tried to come in from the commercial angle, I don't think I would have made it. You know what I mean?

[33:43] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[33:43] Amber Gray: Now people accept me in the commercial world very much so.

[33:46] Jayke Workman: Right.

[33:47] Amber Gray: But early days, no way. Actually, have op I auditioned for a huge casting house that will remain nameless. You could figure it out if you go on YouTube. I went in for like a general just to see if I could sing, right? They do everything like commercials, straight stuff, whatever. I went in just for a general, and I chose Touch It Touch Me from Rocky Horror to sing, and they kind of rolled their eyes, and people like to roll their eyes, but then I do it and they're like, that was awesome. And I did it, and then I sang something else that they picked for me. And then a few days later, my agent called and he was like, the feedback's not good. And I was like, Oh, really? It's like, yeah, they said that you looked at the accompanist and not the wall. I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? They wanted me to look at a dot on the wall. I was like, Well, they knew it was a general, and if that's their preference, there's not a right and wrong way to do an audition.

[34:38] Jayke Workman: Right.

[34:38] Amber Gray: I was like, if that's our preference, they could have stopped me and said as much. And then anyway, they had like the most lame feedback, and also my agent said, I guess you chose some song they thought was really weird. You should never do that song again. I was like, again, that person's opinion. Um I was like, Rocky Horror is the highest grossing musical in the United Kingdom. Don't tell me it was a poor choice. Anyway, um my agent then said you will be blacklisted for the next five years from this casting house to audition for musicals. And I thought he was joking, but he wasn't. And two years into it, Hurricane Sandy happened in New York. We were doing Great Comet editor's Nova off Broadway.

So a bunch of shows got canceled because of the hurricane, and then other dates were added. So like a we because of the rescheduling, a pocket of tickets opened up. Uh-huh. So they gave everybody in the cast like four comps or whatever. And my agent was like, invite that casting house. I was like, fuck them. Yeah. He was like, invite that casting house. And I did, and then the head of that casting house wrote me a letter being like, We made a mistake.

[35:37] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[35:38] Amber Gray: And now they are like, Do you want this part? Now they just offer me stuff 15 years later.

[35:45] Jayke Workman: Well, um And also I must say I fear I would be remiss to even uh uh touch on it. Be remiss to not uh uh uh ask if you think it has anything to do with the fact that you are a person of color and a woman uh on top of being an actor of note, having notoriety. That that experience happened to me in the first place.

[36:06] Amber Gray: Yeah.

[36:10] Jayke Workman: I don't think so.

[36:11] Amber Gray: I don't think so. I a bit of the story that maybe is important to share is the person I did the screen with was new to that casting house and was trying to like work his way up. Uh so I think he had something to prove.

[36:26] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[36:26] Amber Gray: Um I hope not. Never really thought about it. And I will say I have the cold hard truth about this question, which gets ugly sometimes, and I sometimes will get, you know, sides from my agent for an audition. I'll be like, This is not for me. This has to be a fully black woman and dark skinned, you know. And they'll be like, What do you mean? And I'm like, not all black people are the same, and I'm biracial, which is really important. You have to remember that I am like a white presenting makes white people feel comfortable about a black body person.

[36:55] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[36:55] Amber Gray: And there's some material that is not my place to perform. I feel very strongly about that. And I have had the luxury of a lot of color blind, color conscious, whatever you want to call it, sure casting in my life, and some of that is because I am light skinned.

[37:13] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[37:14] Amber Gray: And that's just straight up truth.

[37:15] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[37:15] Amber Gray: And the colorism within like communities and communities and communities. Like you can pare it down and down and down, and it's still like it's still there. It's still there, and there's lots of like internal racism. It's yeah, it's rough stuff.

[37:30] Jayke Workman: Wild.

[37:31] Amber Gray: Yeah.

[37:31] Jayke Workman: Well, not to it just immediately switch gears, but I something that I admire you for, um, is your sort of candor about um having kids and being a full-time performer and how it's beautiful and difficult and amazing, and I've gotten to meet your sweet, sweet kiddos, and I just think that I've you know, observing you as a parent and a mom is so incredible. But I'd love to know about like did you did you um have to consider what it would mean to be a performer and be a mom, or was it just something that you knew you were gonna do?

[38:09] Amber Gray: I always knew I wanted kids. I felt very clean about that my whole life. And if I had started earlier, I would have had an army of them. Like I would have I I would have eight of them, you know. Um yeah, I just my partner I had known for a few years from Reverend Billy in the Stop Shopping Choir, and he is so magical children, like they just gravitate towards him. A few years into knowing him, we started dating, and I think I was just always very clear about it with him, and he had never thought about it much, and because I was so clear about it, he was like, Maybe I do want kids, like it made him start thinking about it.

[38:48] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[38:48] Amber Gray: And it just kind of all fell into place. We were always like, Yeah, when the timing's right, right, which is a big mistake a lot of people make because the timing will never be right. Right. We were always like, Well, yeah when the timing's right, when the timing's right. And then he turned 40 one year, and a dear friend of his died in a horrible fluke way, like just hit his head wrong when he tripped down some stairs. It's really sad. And he right after it happened, had to go home to visit his parents for a week or whatever. That was already kind of scheduled. So he was like away from me with family, kind of thinking on it, had a dear friend who just died. You know, you get in these ways where you're like, What what am I doing? What matters? What matters, yeah, yeah. Your priorities align, you know.

[39:34] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[39:34] Amber Gray: So he came home and he was like, Where is my baby? I don't care about your career. Where's my baby? And I was kind of like, okay, let's like try to get pregnant.

[39:42] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[39:42] Amber Gray: And then a month later, we were pregnant.

[39:44] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[39:44] Amber Gray: I had never been pregnant, he had never gotten anybody pregnant. We were both like, we're probably infertile.

[39:51] Jayke Workman: Got pregnant right away, and it was shocking and surprising, and then we were like totally on board. We're like, Yeah, we're doing this.

[39:56] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[39:57] Amber Gray: So that was all kind of like weird fluke accident, the timing of everything. And then once I had one, I was like right away, wanted another one. But I was doing Great Comet at the time and really underweight, like nursing, you lose quite a bit of weight, making the milk. Um, I was sort of still nursing the first baby and doing a thousand steps a day in Great Comet, like really got very underweight, so my body just would not get pregnant for like a year. And then as soon as Comet ended, I was pregnant two months later.

[40:28] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[40:29] Amber Gray: And so then when you were saying baby cake Rachel Chavkin is like, hey, wanna do this little uh this little diddy it off Broadway and you're like sure whatever.

[40:40] Jayke Workman: What you mean with Hadestown?

[40:41] Amber Gray: Yeah. Hadestown had been in my life two years before we ever did a full production. But so you already knew what it would do physically to you.

[40:49] Jayke Workman: Well I will say both of those shows Comet and Hadestown I lucked out because I had already been involved with both of them for a couple of years before I had a kid.

[40:58] Amber Gray: Sure.

[40:58] Jayke Workman: So like I was pregnant in 2015, got the offer to do Comet at ART in Boston and held on to the offer for like six weeks and didn't answer. Chavkin finally called me and she was like Are you out of your fucking mind? She was like opening is your due date you have to turn down the offer and I was like oh okay sorry just like holding out I don't know what I thought was gonna happen.

[41:20] Amber Gray: Oh my god um but you know you always gamble when you don't do a round like is the role gonna come back to you of course and luckily it did and when we went to Broadway I knew well when that show went to Broadway I was seven months postpartum I guess luckily I had done the role so many times so I didn't in the rehearsal hall I was a little spacey still making milk still postpartum in other respects. Same with Hadestown so grateful that I'd already figured out most of the role like any kind of new things they were throwing at me I could handle and had the mental capacity to take it on because I had already figured out eighty percent of it.

[41:58] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[41:58] Amber Gray: Which was really helpful. If I had been starting from scratch with either of those roles, I think I would have had a way more difficult time.

[42:04] Jayke Workman: Sure.

[42:04] Amber Gray: Just hormonally, postpartum is a ride, a roller coaster ride. Um, yeah, and the same was true of Hadestown. I had already done three two-week workshops of it before that production, and I knew that production was coming up off Broadway. Angus was three months old when we started rehearsals at Baby Baby. You're gonna work shop, baby baby. That is why you tiny little slug.

[42:28] Jayke Workman: Yeah, it was wonderful.

[42:29] Amber Gray: So yes, he was three months old, and then seven months old or eight months is when we yeah started Comet on Broadway.

[42:35] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[42:36] Amber Gray: Yeah.

[42:36] Jayke Workman: That's incredible.

[42:37] Amber Gray: And then I got pregnant with my second kid while we were doing Hadestown in Canada, and you pop right away with your second baby. So I just like got fat right away, and they I was like, I need a new costume. Like it wasn't even like you could take out the seams and give me an extra inch. Like sure, sure. Like no, no, rebuild.

[42:55] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[42:57] Amber Gray: That's amazing. She was like a little sausage with no waste.

[43:00] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[43:02] Amber Gray: Yeah. That's wild.

[43:03] Jayke Workman: Yeah. Well, Amber, I just freaking adore you. Love you so much for doing the.

[43:08] Amber Gray: I know you are like famously not on the socials.

[43:12] Jayke Workman: Hate it.

[43:13] Amber Gray: So I'm on there to like stalk others.

[43:15] Jayke Workman: Well, of course, of course.

[43:17] Amber Gray: And um, and I read I use it like email. I love it.

[43:21] Jayke Workman: But so I, you know, I can't say follow Amber here or there.

[43:25] Amber Gray: But don't follow. Just listen to the damn pod, and that's enough. How's that?

[43:29] Jayke Workman: But I love you so much.

[43:30] Amber Gray: That's right.

[43:30] Jayke Workman: Thank you.

[43:30] Amber Gray: Thanks for having me.

[43:31] Jayke Workman: Thank you so much for doing this.

[43:32] Amber Gray: Yeah, it's my pleasure. It was so fun.

[43:36] Jayke Workman: You guys, that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod, and you can follow the show on Instagram at Oh My Pod, you guys. Thank you so, so so much for listening. Talk soon. Bye.

[43:54] Amber Gray: Oh my god, oh my god, you guys.