This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jayke Workman: As Trixie Mattel always said, I wouldn't be surprised if we never saw Denise Richards again.

[0:11] Jayke Workman: Oh my god, did you hear? Did you hear? Did you hear? Oh my god, guys. Jake guys, hi. Oh my god, that is, oh my god, you guys.

[0:26] Jayke Workman: What's up, everybody? My name is Jayke Workman, and this is Oh my pod, you guys, a musical theater and pop culture podcast. And I mean, I say what's up, but I should be saying aloha, because that's right. At the time of this publication, I'm on an island in Hawaii.

[0:48] Jayke Workman: You guys, I'm going to Hawaii for the first time ever. And I'm thrilled. I never go on vacation like this. And the time has come, and I am over the moon, ready to be on the beach in a speedo tanning my cheeks.

[1:06] Jayke Workman: That being said, of course, um, this does mean that next week's pod episode will be delayed a week. So there will be this episode you are listening to now, and then two weeks later, my next episode will come out because mama, I have things to do on an Hawaiian roller coaster ride, okay? So just bear with me here, but I'm so excited, and I can't wait to um regale you with stories and tales of my adventures in Hawaii when I return.

[1:37] Jayke Workman: You guys, not that much has happened this week in the world of Broadway, but I do have an amazing interview for you with Broadway's own incredible puppeteer and puppet designer, James Ortiz. So without further ado, here is James.

[1:57] Jayke Workman: Oh my pod, you guys. I am so excited to welcome my next guest to the show. He is a designer, a puppeteer. Is that the correct puppet designer I end up saying? Okay. Puppet design, puppet direction. You guys, Broadway's own James Ortiz.

[2:16] James Ortiz: It's me.

[2:18] Jayke Workman: It's me.

[2:19] James Ortiz: It's you.

[2:20] Jayke Workman: And you're in person, which I love. I love doing the pod in person. We talked about this already, but there was a chance that we were gonna do this in Zoom, and I have a little yappy dog that would have ruined the entirety of it. And also, like, we don't need the lag, and like what are we doing?

[2:35] James Ortiz: No, exactly.

[2:36] Jayke Workman: The Wi-Fi issues and the I can't hear you, can you hear me?

[2:40] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[2:40] Jayke Workman: All of that. And it seems like the whole format, because I've listened to a few episodes. I love your work. A listener of the pod.

[2:46] James Ortiz: Of course.

[2:46] Jayke Workman: On the pod. Also, because we did Wrinkle in Time together.

[2:50] James Ortiz: Yes.

[2:51] Jayke Workman: And I had a fair amount of stuff to do on that show, but maybe not as much as other things. So it meant that I had some downtime where it was like, oh, I'm gonna walk around DC and like, what's this? And I listened to a pod, and I would run into you in the hallway and go, I listen to the pod.

[3:04] James Ortiz: I would find episodes that my friends were in.

[3:05] Jayke Workman: Yes. You know what I mean?

[3:06] James Ortiz: Of course, of course.

[3:07] Jayke Workman: Oh yeah, Jason.

[3:08] James Ortiz: Oh my god.

[3:08] Jayke Workman: I mean, we will of course disaster, a terror, truly.

[3:12] James Ortiz: Yeah, you can't edit that.

[3:13] Jayke Workman: It's just a fact.

[3:14] James Ortiz: Yes.

[3:15] Jayke Workman: We have to, you know, get into all of the into the woods of it all.

[3:18] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[3:19] Jayke Workman: But before we do, you mentioned it already, the um out how our paths crossed.

[3:25] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[3:25] Jayke Workman: Working on a Wrinkle in Time in DC. And I'm so excited because I've never had a puppet designer on the pod.

[3:34] James Ortiz: You're so welcome.

[3:36] Jayke Workman: Uh we who are, thank you. There's also, like, I I'm never gonna say there's not many of us because there's so many puppet designers, puppet directors. I actually wrote uh equity reached out a while ago because they were in the process of very slowly, and I say this that with love, but very slowly sort of trying to figure out how can we represent puppet people.

[3:59] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[4:00] Jayke Workman: And I they were like, here's a Google Doc, and like fill up with what what do you think would be nice? Do they get like massages? And I wrote maybe five pages of a breakdown of every role that needs to happen backstage in order for a puppet to go on stage.

[4:14] James Ortiz: Hell yeah.

[4:15] Jayke Workman: And um, so there's many, many facets to the job. And you're sort of a you're obviously a department into yourself, but what's wild is you know, you're saying your first puppeteer, but like there's so many of us. Um, but it's a weird, bizarro sort of like you're sort of sitting next to the prop department. You're sort of like you're sort of like an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot. So it's wonderful to be here, and it's also wonderful to be your first puppet dork on the pod.

[4:46] James Ortiz: My first.

[4:47] Jayke Workman: I know, it's crazy. And I have done so many shows that have included some form of say more, which show puppetry. I mean, like doing Seussical with like giant handheld footprints or whatever. But I haven't worked on a new original show that has included in from my perspective, so um warmly designer like you in the process of creating it. And you know, that's a testament to our team and Lee, who's amazing, and all the people who were like, James, what do you think? And I kept of course that that should be how it is, but I kept thinking, like, wow, how amazing that we do get actual time with you, the designer of these puppets and the beasts and everything to really work on it and learn from you.

[5:35] James Ortiz: Because I would imagine that there have been moments in your career where you build something or make something, and you're like, well, that's not what I intended for that to do.

[5:44] Jayke Workman: Oh yeah. I mean, there's been so many gigs I've had where like by the time we get to tech everything's been cut, and you're like, okay. And you know, you can't. And then your name is still on it, and you're like, oh yeah. There's a show running right now that I shouldn't say um that I am grateful to get checks for, and my work is not in it.

[6:01] James Ortiz: T.

[6:02] Jayke Workman: And I go, Great, thanks. Thank you. Um, but uh no, it's a really fascinating thing, and I'll break it down really simply if it's of interest. But generally, well, first of all, can we talk about Wrinkle and that team?

[6:14] James Ortiz: Yes.

[6:14] Jayke Workman: Because I I've I feel like I've like spoken ad nauseum on the pu no, but I want two more. Like great, great. I can't say enough things about I I I don't mean this with any disrespect to any other thing I've ever worked on, but I have to say it was probably one of the healthiest rooms I've worked in in years.

[6:32] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[6:33] Jayke Workman: Um, first of all, Lee Sunday Evans Dreamboat.

[6:35] James Ortiz: Yes.

[6:36] Jayke Workman: Uh Anitage. I like the greatest deal of like I am a gay man and I have such a crush on Alice. She is so extraordinary.

[6:45] James Ortiz: And the work that they do is like this magical blend of like I think they did talk about this, that they sort of come from more of a pop universe or like a concert space.

[6:55] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[6:55] James Ortiz: And also in the musical theater storytelling landscape.

[6:58] Jayke Workman: Right.

[6:59] James Ortiz: Really a cool blend. And also, and also as you can imagine, puppetry ends up falling into a sort of a movement camp, which means I'm always working with the choreographer in a lot of ways.

[7:09] Jayke Workman: What a dreamy partnership.

[7:11] James Ortiz: Yeah. What a really rad pot time. Lauren Yi, um, Heather Christian's, are you kidding? Oh my god. I mean, it was just one of those things where, like I was saying before, um, because of the nature of my work on the show, I had a fair few things to do while there, but I wasn't required every day, and I wasn't needed for every moment.

[7:31] Jayke Workman: So I just got to like, especially in tech, just got to be like the fun uncle who's like, Y'all want candy? And just like having it was it was amazing watching the cast, because you know, every cast is a family, blah blah blah blah. But sure, but blah blah blah, me too. But also, um you all had such crushes on each other, like creative, like wanted to do better.

[7:45] James Ortiz: Taylor Amon Jones.

[7:58] Jayke Workman: Yes. Are you kidding? Amazing. And also with a show that, like, could have easily have been the I mean, I can I I hope there's a future for it. I really do. Because I think there's so much there.

[8:10] James Ortiz: Totally.

[8:11] Jayke Workman: But the material could have easily have been some like Dr. Susie, silly, you know, yes, whimsy kind of nothing.

[8:18] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[8:18] Jayke Workman: And the amount of like chutzpah that was put in by all of the aforementioned ladies, yeah, dreamy.

[8:25] James Ortiz: Totally.

[8:26] Jayke Workman: And also, just to say this, there's been so many situations, I'll put it this way, uh, when something came up that was like uh we had to pivot, like the thing wasn't ready, the moment wasn't working, whatever. Uh-huh. I think we've both been in situations where there would be a long monologue about how the my vision was damaged.

[8:46] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[8:46] Jayke Workman: But from Lee, it was like, yeah, okay, let's figure it out.

[8:48] James Ortiz: Yes.

[8:48] Jayke Workman: It was the dreamiest. I'm sure there was difficult moments, but how how could we have known? It was so great.

[8:56] James Ortiz: Totally.

[8:57] Jayke Workman: And also the whole cast was a murderer's row of people that you give a whisper of a note to and they're like, Yeah, I got uh I got it. I don't think I made full sentences once with any of you guys. I was like, I don't know, more um, can this be more circular? And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it.

[9:12] James Ortiz: Well, it certainly has a lot to do with the fact that the material was so good and you guys all cared.

[9:24] Jayke Workman: And it was so apparent. Like, do you find that like designing something? Well, how do I even talk about that? Talk about how the process works.

[9:33] James Ortiz: Well, yeah, I mean, like so for Wrinkle, for example. Like, did you uh first who approached you? And then do you have to consider uh like initially, like, okay, budget, timing, all of it.

[9:49] Jayke Workman: Like all of it. That all comes into play like immediately for you.

[9:52] James Ortiz: It's all the whole thing's the whole thing. Wrinkle was interesting because for a bunch of reasons. I had worked with Lee Sunday Evans before. I did a mobile unit at the public with her once.

[10:01] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[10:01] James Ortiz: We did a Winter's Tale. And that was, you know, even faster and quicker than this whole process was. But it was a thing where Lee reached out and said, Hi, I'm doing this thing. Um, it's happening way sooner than I think you would like, but can we talk about this? Because originally I was gonna be brought in because um Serafina, the costume designer who's also a genius, um had designed so much stuff for the show, and Dots was a set designer, and they had already done so much stuff that I was basically gonna be brought in as like an advisor on how to puppetize things that are already in motion.

[10:37] Jayke Workman: Existing, yeah.

[10:38] James Ortiz: And it became very clear that it was gonna be sort of easier for everybody if I just sort of took some projects on myself. Uh thrilled to collaborate, all of that was rad, and we did have a lot of collaboration, but it just made more sense in terms of time and budget.

[10:54] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[10:54] James Ortiz: But basically, we had a great conversation. I had never read the book before. It was not something that I think we had to in school back in the day. Um I had seen the movie with Oprah, really colorful and fun. Is what it is. Yep. And I I sort of left that experience going, what happened? Like I kind of, you know, we sort of, you know, it was not as laid out.

[11:12] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[11:17] James Ortiz: And um, so basically I had sort of been told there's sort of two big sequences where we need help. And what was we had a workshop shortly after that at uh 90 seconds, nope, yeah, 92nd Street Why? The 53rd? 50 fifty yep, 52nd Street project. Yes. And um, we had a little quick workshop where basically, which this doesn't always happen in the world of puppetry where there's a workshop before the show, somet which ever you need it because you know, my job is basically to collaborate with all the designers and the director and come up with a thing that will work that fits in the aesthetic world of the play, that fits in the thematic world of the play, that fits on the performers that we think are going to say yes to the contract. And you know, get it made and get it built on time, and then from there I am in the rehearsal room uh whenever those things are being used, and sort of being, like I said on the first day, like the puppeteer's acting coach.

[12:21] James Ortiz: Yeah. Sometimes I'm more of a choreographer where I'm sort of saying on the three and the five, do this. But since I have a terrible time with numbers, I usually just go, uh big feeling and here's the idea. But we had this workshop and we basically would pull out pieces of paper and from jump I don't know if anybody can relate to this but you know my job is to join a team that's usually already in motion. Sometimes I get brought in from the very beginning and that's really cool. But sometimes when I jump in it's a little, you know, there's a long period of first day of school of just sort of figuring out like what I know what my footprint needs to be. But how does that integrate with other people's needs and desires.

And it was really interesting because like day two of like that what four day workshop that we had, Lee was like, hey, um I really want you to be a big full tilt diva and I went can you say more about that? And she said no if you have any idea at any moment outside of what a puppet is or just the scene or just the movement or if you have anything please don't be afraid to share it. And I have also been given that red carpet sort of thing and sometimes that carpet gets taken away right away. And it was not it was the opposite of that. It was like oh yes and what about yes and yeah. So that was really rad because it was like me, Ani, Lee and Veronica and then a handful of you guys. And we just sort of figured out together like how to play but also how to make the play a play.

So yeah, after that it becomes like cool now that we know the things that we're interested in, I'm usually walking away with like a list of like it sounds like I'm making like seven things, and we do a lot of drawings or sometimes I do like a digital sculpt, which is a fun thing that I've been learning how to do. And what you so graciously gifted us, which I literally have in my room, is our little teeny little ant beast.

[14:23] James Ortiz: Yes, little tiny bees. I well, I think my love language is gift giving at the end of the day. I think it might be. You can tell. Um because I love an opening night gift because usually my contract ends like on opening, if not the day before. So that's sort of the last time to say, you know, if it's not clear, I'm horrendous at small talk. So what that really means is my opening night card is usually like, I'm so sorry about your dead mom. Like it's so deep too quick. Um I love I love that. So I had made digital models of the Ant Beast alien character. And because it was the best way for me to send it to my fabrication team, I was using this great shop called BB Props in Jersey, and they build, oh my god, they built such a they built the car for Great Gatsby on Broadway.

Like they just they're like, oh, hire them. And um so I had this digital file that basically was just sitting there truly for my fabricators to use as like reference. Like it's gonna be three feet there, two inches there, you know, take measurements from it. And they had 3D printed a couple of like, I don't know, three inch tall little ant beasts, just for us to use as reference. And I basically threw them some cash and said, Hey, can you print me 35? And again, I had a little less time than I had more time than you guys did. I um would uh they mailed me what the 35 prints in D to DC, and then I just sat in my little apartment painting them for you guys. And then it was so much fun. Because you want a little keepsake.

[16:05] James Ortiz: Oh my god, it was yes, I love it so much. It was like my I kept it on my station the entire run. You told me the little face broke off or something. That one of the hands. Nail glue. Yes. I gotta I kept it. Nail glue or I think you're somebody that has nail glue. I think I might have some lying around because I clack my nails. When I met you at that workshop, you had full tilt claws. Yes. And I think it might have been like a French tip, like an almond thumb, something or other. But then you showed up on first day and I went, where did it go? Where'd they go? I know, because I was playing all these people who even in a like a mystical other world probably would know of acrylics. No, I know, but even in camazats, there was a big like queer energy to it.

Oh, yeah. It might have just been the cast. But it was like, oh, maybe there could have been space for that. But how are gays on camazats? I think there are. I don't think they know they're gay. You know. How do you miss something you don't remember losing? You know what I mean? I don't and also just to say, I mean, by the way, um, you know, I got to see that show a whole bunch, but the end of that show is so goddamn moving. Ugh. I mean I cried every night doing it. How could you not? It was so fun and cathartic, it was really lovely. It was so and I was sort of constantly telling you guys that because you could from the outside you can sort of feel when the cast is just like bone tired, or if they can't feel that it's doing anything because we've been just doing it for the lighting team for months and months and months.

To no laughs and then no response, yeah. Because we're just going, you know, I've said this many times, especially when I get a chance to direct things, that usually the first designer run is a moment for them to you're never gonna get any laughs. It's usually the first time that there's an audience in the room. Yeah, right. But they're so concerned with what's going on that they are not Anytime that you move, they're making a note of like, Well, I can't use those pants that I already made. Like it's just there's only anxiety. Fuck. Yeah, they're just making it. None of that's gonna work. Yeah, they're just making notes of like, well, she scratches her head, so I guess we're throwing out that wig that I spent five weeks ventilating. So that's usually why that is.

[18:14] James Ortiz: Yeah. Wow. The energy drinks get hell yeah. Okay, so obviously we could talk about wrinkle forever. But I have to ask about well, okay. Do the first of all, I have to ask about your road to theater, and then more specifically working with puppets, yeah, building and you know, animating them because it's not it's a rather neat. It's a really weird thing journey. But also you have been able to forge such an amazing career and work with so many amazing people. That's really cool. And have designed things that are now like tattooed on people's bodies. And by the way, Ashley Hufford, um, Ash sees all the theater on Instagram. Yeah. Uh uh came to see Wrinkle because she's a huge Madeline Lengel fan of Madeline Lengal.

And um I it was the first time I got to meet her. And she and I mentioned this because she has a tattoo of Milky White on her. Yeah, as the first person that I knew about that. What's wild, and I do talk about this in my bio because I think it's crazy. There's about six people in the world that I I think I've only met two of them, and they all have tattoos of my work on them. That is so cool nuts. But how amazing and beautiful. It's crazy, but also because the nature of puppetry is like I am making tangible something, theater which is not tangible. Yes. There I'm ultimately, while this may not be the intention, I am at the end of the day making a mascot of the show. So of course, merch and things and artwork and things will come of it because you know that actor is gonna change when they go to Chicago. But object of the puppet and what it means to people sort of sticks around. Yeah. It's just really strange thing.

[19:53] James Ortiz: That's so cool. It's bizarre. So did you always know that you wanted to do that? Not at all. Um so basically, if I can do the the TLDR version, yeah. Um so I was always the painting, drawing, sculpting little kid. Okay, the little introverted child that loved clay and sculpting and all of that. And staying at home and being an introvert. And then around middle school, I found my way into theater, which allowed me to sort of as a performer to sort of open up and and which, you know, is a little closeted kid in Texas that means something. Yeah. And around the same time, in my hometown of Richardson, Texas, suburb of Dallas, um, there used to be this through the Parks and Recreation program, there was a marionette trailer that would go around and put on little like 20-minute marionette shows, little fairy Hans Long Gretel, Jack and the Beanstalk.

That I saw as a kid, and they would go to all the public parks. So in the summers. So you would like, you know, be at the public pool because that was the vibe in the 90s. Of course. Um, and you would just see this weird ass puppet show of Jack and the Beanstalk, and you're a toddler and the giant is as big as you, and you're like, what do you mean? Um and around middle school, I think also because my mother was like, We want you out of the house, you're inside too much. She signed me up for this program. I went, I don't know. And what I realized very quickly was that it was the Venn diagram center of both fine art, sculpting, drawing, painting, and performance. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, it is character analysis to the max.

Um, my, you know, I should also say this. My father, uh, my parents are both retired, but my father is a was a salesman, so sell, sell, sell, big energy that I have. And also my mother was uh English and an English hist uh English teacher. Okay. So a lot of dramatic structure in the house, a lot of analysis. Uh-huh. So I think it just became this thing that became like the best way for me to do all the things that excited me. Yeah. Because I every artist and theater person I've ever met is actually the most slashes in a multi-hyphenate human I've ever met. They all do so many things. Of course. But you know, the industry only sort of has enough attention to remember you for the one. Yeah. And I just felt like I lucked out because I was able to sort of funnel all of my interests and passions into one space.

And um, so basically, I you know, I it became like special skills, puppetry, I guess. Right for years. Is there a major for that? Or like no, I think there are a couple schools. There's uh University of Connecticut has a amazing MFA puppetry program. UConn. Um, and some of the cast of Little Shop uh went there, and I love those humans. Yes. And um there's a couple there's a couple places. There's not a lot. It's interesting because um in America, a lot of puppetry has been sort of the cloud of Jim Henson is so strong over at the Yes. You know, there is a sense that puppetry must belong to children. Children, yeah. And in Europe, and I'm usually very inspired by European puppet design, or puppet the way puppetry is used at the National Theater and what have you, where it's a lot more of a tool to just tell the story.

Totally. Um so long story short, too late. Basically, um I was a acting major, I was the theater club president in high school, it's not a big deal, don't worry about it. And I went to SUNY Purchase in New York for the acting program. And that's a classical theater. I mean, that's that's you know, Shakespeare and Chekhov all of it. And the first job I got after graduating because somebody from Texas that also transferred to New York remembered that puppet was a weird fact next to my name. They couldn't make it to an audition that Moises Kaufman was directing an opera of puss and boots at through Tectonic Theater Company and Gotham Chamber Opera that was happening at the New Victory. And we're talking 2011, 2012.

And I went in for an audition. I had what's so funny is that you know, four years of Chekhov is a lot. Full stop. Yeah. Just at all. A lot. And I sort of was realizing while at this conservatory that I learned so much, and you know, all of my synapses are that of an actor anyway. But I sort of was like trying to find a way to like s keep the other interests that I had alive. So I would as Chekhov is beating your own. And by the way, if Europe at Purchase, where's way from Texas? It was the first time I experienced snow. Yes. So there's like four feet of snow outside, and you're having existential alienation, I'm exhausted. So I was trying to figure out ways, and I sort of was like making little things for myself. So I had this wacky ass puppet that I built for me that I was able to bring to this audition with Moises, and I got the job and I got to meet sort of like the fancy New York puppet elite community.

[24:50] James Ortiz: Cool. And I stole their best ideas.

[24:55] Jayke Workman: As they would, I'm sure, encourage you to do.

[24:57] James Ortiz: Absolutely. Because I think puppetry is just like this weird scrappy medium.

[25:02] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[25:02] James Ortiz: For probably folks that are all very neurodivergent. And I mean that as the greatest compliment.

[25:07] Jayke Workman: Absolutely. You know what I mean?

[25:08] James Ortiz: Um, because it's all like these Swiss army knife humans that are just going to be like people with imagination that I can't even fathom.

[25:15] Jayke Workman: Like I would disagree because I I've seen your work.

[25:17] James Ortiz: But well, thank you. But I I am constantly astonished by because I think I got the greatest lesson in storytelling, dramatic structure, character analysis, Stanislavski from Purchase.

[25:36] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[25:37] James Ortiz: But I then I learned about how to physicalize all of those things. Because puppet theater is usually small scale version of big theater, right? So what's great is like I have been a set designer for other projects, and I have been a director for other projects, or I have been a dramaturge of other projects. I've done it on a small scale.

[25:55] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[25:56] James Ortiz: You know what I mean? Yeah. Or I've done costume design for other things because you it's the same idea. Just build a costume for a two-foot puppet. So um it's just been this weird thing that that even today I still go, puppets is my whole life. Because it's such a weird it doesn't feel like that word encompasses my exactly.

[26:15] Jayke Workman: That's that's the thing. I think like people, even just hearing someone describe you in the room for Winkle as like our puppet director.

[26:24] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[26:24] Jayke Workman: Didn't quite I know it's weird. Feel like it was well, uh weighty enough because what you do is so impactful to a show. And like I mean, I I remember seeing um Life of Pi.

[26:37] James Ortiz: Love that whole show.

[26:39] Jayke Workman: So many of my friends are in the tour right now. It obsessed.

[26:43] James Ortiz: And the opera I did, the first opera I did, the Moises Kaufman one, was designed by the people who did Life of Pi.

[26:49] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[26:49] James Ortiz: So I took their best ideas.

[26:50] Jayke Workman: Yes. I mean, it's just the things that it's what I aspire to do is like shows with things like that because uh the theory.

[27:00] James Ortiz: Oh my god, I know the people that would have cast you in that.

[27:03] Jayke Workman: You should have if only we knew each other before.

[27:05] James Ortiz: I know. But like watching your joints would be so tired.

[27:09] Jayke Workman: Oh, absolutely.

[27:10] James Ortiz: Exactly, yeah, exactly. But like watching four people animate a tiger puppet, and then watching an actor play opposite that puppet was unbelievable. I could not believe how impacted I was by that.

[27:26] Jayke Workman: And I think we talked about this in Wrinkle Rehearsal. I think I definitely told it to Taylor and Mateo and Nikki.

[27:32] James Ortiz: Yeah.

[27:32] Jayke Workman: But the actors in the scene with the puppet are the other puppeteers.

[27:37] James Ortiz: Yes.

[27:38] Jayke Workman: Because you're telling us how to feel about what you're experiencing.

[27:43] James Ortiz: Right. You're not seeing the puppeteer holding a branch. You're seeing a tree, and you're teaching us that it's a tree from how you behave around it.

[27:50] Jayke Workman: We actually had a great moment. It was a little tiny thing, but um Taylor and Nikki and Mateo had a moment when they were being flown by these giant wings in one sequence.

[27:59] James Ortiz: I love that.

[28:00] Jayke Workman: Me too. And I there was a thing that they were all playing this thing of like being teenagers and being scared by the sort of roller coaster of this magical flying thing. And I pulled that clip from Prisoner of Azkaban, which we don't need, we don't need to talk about J.K. Rowling ever.

[28:15] James Ortiz: No, but but there's that clip where he's on Buckbeak.

[28:17] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[28:18] James Ortiz: And he starts like opening his arms and screaming with joy.

[28:21] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[28:21] James Ortiz: And I was like, can we do that?

[28:23] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[28:23] James Ortiz: Just because when you play it with anxiety, you're teaching us that it's taking you somewhere you don't want to go.

[28:28] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[28:29] James Ortiz: Or that you're in danger. But if there is an abandon with this moment and the music is so like transcendent in that moment, if you play it a different way than so they were puppeteering our expectation as an audience.

[28:41] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[28:42] James Ortiz: And you can't say enough about like good actors. But also great actors are consistently great puppeteers. It's been really interesting because uh, you know, I'm always great uh most of my career has been teaching non-puppeteers to puppeteer. But what has been interesting is that people that come from a very strict dance background usually have a hard time, which doesn't track.

[29:04] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[29:04] James Ortiz: Because the physicality is all there. It's movement, so that makes sense. And I think it would probably work for a different puppet director, but I'm usually coming from the place of let's work improvisationally with these objects in the four minutes we have to rehearse this and figure out like you're playing a character, but I think the character is tree or flower or wing or winged creature or ant beast. What do you want to do with it? So it does I do put a lot of onus on those people to go, tell me how you want to play this, and I'll definitely have thoughts, but let me shape the intention that you want to play.

[29:42] Jayke Workman: Totally.

[29:45] James Ortiz: Cool. But you have to externalize it, which that's where I come in to go, I see what you're playing, but it's not leaving your body, you know.

[29:52] Jayke Workman: Uh huh.

[29:52] James Ortiz: You have to ex you have to externalize it. So for things like uh Milky White in the Broadway revival of Into the Woods started at City Center.

[30:04] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[30:05] James Ortiz: This might be a stupid question, but like the City Center of it.

[30:09] Jayke Workman: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[30:10] James Ortiz: When we're not recording.

[30:11] Jayke Workman: Yeah, great, great.

[30:12] James Ortiz: Um, I often Did you see that show? Did you get to see it on Broadway or City Center?

[30:15] Jayke Workman: I saw it on Broadway.

[30:18] James Ortiz: Oh, amazing. Um Heather Headley still broke my heart.

[30:21] Jayke Workman: She was she just did the City Center run, and it was She came back though. Extraordinary.

[30:26] James Ortiz: Did Heather come back on Broadway?

[30:28] Jayke Workman: For like a very brief moment.

[30:29] James Ortiz: That's the thing about a designer. You show up for opening, you give everybody gifts, and then you kind of just hear about it.

[30:34] Jayke Workman: Okay, great.

[30:34] James Ortiz: Someone's there. Your Instagram was like, oh, you're in it. That's great.

[30:38] Jayke Workman: Yeah. So in designing Milky White and like those incredible the giant's shoes.

[30:45] James Ortiz: I love them.

[30:46] Jayke Workman: Are literally amazing. Like just I remember seeing that and being like, it's genius.

[30:51] James Ortiz: It's so genius. But um were those designs perhaps different than what you would have created if you had known that this show was going to transfer to Broadway. Or did you know?

[31:05] Jayke Workman: Oh, that's a good idea.

[31:07] James Ortiz: We had no idea. Did you go in with like, okay, this is a City Center show, it's gonna be both basically a concert, so this is the concept. Versus if they had been like, we're doing the Broadway revival of the Yes, I know exactly what you're asking. What's interesting is that Lear de Bessenay directed that show, and I had worked with her a few times before on various Herculeses.

[31:27] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[31:27] James Ortiz: So I've been fortunate to work on those. And Lear and I r uh I adore that woman. And uh we we sort of discovered this fun shorthand. I mean, she sort of asked me to like work on that, and I went, I'm so excited about this because that was the first musical I saw live ever.

[31:45] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[31:46] James Ortiz: I mean, I saw a it was a high school production of it, but it was like But I'm sure you can still remember fucking every piece of it.

[31:52] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[31:53] James Ortiz: And it was, you know, for a lot of queer people, that show means a lot to a lot of people. Absolutely. For reasons that also aren't exclusively queer coded in the storytelling.

[32:02] Jayke Workman: Oh no.

[32:03] James Ortiz: But it is of that. It is so gay.

[32:06] Jayke Workman: Well, I I would argue that most of Sondheim's work is just plugged in with.

[32:11] James Ortiz: I still haven't seen the what's the what's the David Ives thing?

[32:15] Jayke Workman: The final musical that happened.

[32:16] James Ortiz: Here we are.

[32:17] Jayke Workman: Here we are.

[32:17] James Ortiz: I still missed it, and I can't wait to see it.

[32:19] Jayke Workman: Fantastic.

[32:20] James Ortiz: Ah Shiza. Um and our Diva Amber Gray was in it.

[32:25] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[32:25] James Ortiz: And she was excellent in it, by the way.

[32:28] Jayke Workman: Surprise, surprise.

[32:29] James Ortiz: Yeah. And she's gonna be in Tartuffe in like five minutes or something.

[32:31] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[32:32] James Ortiz: Can't wait with Bianca Del Rio.

[32:34] Jayke Workman: Never stop.

[32:35] James Ortiz: Oh my god. With Bianca Del Rio. I was like, you are jumping from one bald faggot to the next.

[32:40] Jayke Workman: Yes, that's exactly it.

[32:42] James Ortiz: Oh my god. No, Amber's one of those people that you like meet them and you go, and also Amber's the most like disarming dreamy. Just chill vibe. And all I wanted to do around them was like be their best friend. And I had no egress to do so. Because I had no scenes with them and all we would just vibe and chat every once in a while and I would I would compliment them. But um into the woods. So Lear had a very clear intent of how she wanted to approach it because of course there were budget limitations and all of that. But she said, even if we had a million dollars or more, because that's actually how Broadway is.

[33:19] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[33:19] James Ortiz: Um, you know, I would still want this to be as pared down as humanly possible.

[33:24] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[33:24] James Ortiz: So all of the reference, because Leo Lear always starts with hu drop boxes and and images of things of other productions of other pieces of theater, of other pieces of art.

[33:35] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[33:35] James Ortiz: And you always start with that as like this is the touch tone.

[33:39] Jayke Workman: Exactly.

[33:40] James Ortiz: And it's very like at very early stages. There's no like sort of immediate information there other than vibe. Sure. So a lot of it, she was pulling from a lot of like obscure, like um like avant-garde productions of like Uncle Vanya, where it's very stark and clean. She just went, I don't want to do an Into the Woods that we've seen before, where it's like the clothes could be standing up by themselves without the people wearing them.

[34:07] Jayke Workman: Which, you know, into the floor.

[34:08] James Ortiz: I would say that is so yes, that was so achieved. I think that's right. And I think it also it got a little heat because it's like, where's all the rest of the floff?

[34:17] Jayke Workman: Right.

[34:17] James Ortiz: Where's into the woods? You know, and I think what was interesting is that it allowed folks to like hear the words that they've also heard a million times in a different way. And it was important for Lear to both go, I want to pair it back. And when I saw the final version of it in tech, I was like, oh, we didn't do the the resplendent, you know, 16th century oil painting of every fairy tale. We kind of did like a modern watercolor, yeah.

[34:45] Jayke Workman: That would be like the the picture book at Barnes and Noble or whatever.

[34:48] James Ortiz: Yes. And it was really interesting. So everything was pared down. David Rockwell was doing these giant cardboard tubes that were going to be the birch trees.

[34:56] Jayke Workman: Right.

[34:57] James Ortiz: And we knew that it was going to be really cardboard. Love Broadway. Truly, truly, truly so iconic. Truly cardboard tubes. And you know, because it's City Center, and the point is to not spend all the money. Right. And to have the band on stage, which by the way, those early meetings were like, what if the band was six inches over here? Like most of the meetings were about moving the band around. And like, no, we need more space. So we had a bunch of conversations, and originally the first meeting, I came in with like a concept of Milky White being like different pieces of white driftwood and really artistic and uh and made of wood into the woods. And when David showed all these pieces of cardboard and that in the second act, all these shells of cardboard would be all over the stage because the forest was being destroyed by a giant.

I sort of went, okay, cool. What was crazy about that? So I did a handful of sketches and the and l uh uh Lear was so open to all of it, and most of it was, you know, most of the conversation I had with her was her going, do what you want. Let's show me what the concept is that excites you, James. But like, can Milky White make a face like and for the listeners, I'm making like a sad puppy dog face.

[36:05] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[36:05] James Ortiz: And that was kind of the big direction. And what was interesting is that City Center was starting rehearsal while I was in tech for Skin of Our Teeth at Lincoln Center's. Or like was about to start tech. So basically I was finishing building a giant ass dinosaur and a woolly mammoth in a studio. Which was like really cool.

[36:27] Jayke Workman: Amazing.

[36:28] James Ortiz: Thank you. I mean, uh that show got like award winning. It was award winning. It was really special. It was award winning. And you know, um, but no, it was this really special, cool touchstone of, you know, a bunch of stuff. But I was finishing building that. I had a I had people in the shop that I had hired to help build the dinosaurs. And then I had one week in between where I knew I had to build Into the Woods stuff where my deadline wouldn't be met.

[36:51] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[36:51] James Ortiz: And there wasn't enough money to pay those people. So I was like, leave for this week. Yeah. And I just built those things like kind of by myself, save for a few things, in like a week, which meant it's so interesting because I'm sure you feel this way about some choices you've made on stage, but it was one of those things where I didn't have time to have a second to second guess myself.

[37:12] James Ortiz: Yeah. So it just was I had sketches. The shop I was working in had boatloads of old cardboard because I was originally going to do a foam thing and maybe make it look paper mache-ish or something. And it was like literally being inspired by the shit around me and just going, okay, let's do that. And it just sort of happened. And I think because there wasn't a lot of ornamentation or decoration or too much. But also, and also I was just saying uh there's a great um wicker artist named Camille Bear, incredible, like she studied in France to be a like a wicker basket designer, genius. She built the shoes, the giant's feet, because those are made out of rattan. So they're so light, and um it was like a dream.

Cool. And but then Lear went, So listen, City Center is a really short process. We have to show up done, no problem. We got that. But she went, Do you have people that you think should be the cow? Because we could pick people, but like maybe if you have a shorthand with somebody that would go quicker. And I was friends socially with Kennedy Kanagawa, who you know, have met. Have met. Have met. Um Dream. I think you guys would laugh a lot together. Absolutely. I would also like to be his betrothed. But my God. That's neither here nor there. Uh you should meet his betrothed, Dreamy. Okay. Um, but um okay, fine. Um, but uh basically it was a thing where and and just to say this, I came from more of a classical theater space and have been thrown into musical and opera spaces.

Yeah, I don't necessarily come from that culture. Sure. So I knew that City Center was a thing, but I didn't know it was that much of a thing, which makes me seem like an idiot. No, no, but I did that. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. Yeah. So I had reached out to Kennedy, who basically the only caveat was please find somebody that you think would be great, but also they have to speak musical theater. And I went, Great. And I had I sort of went, Kennedy's really funny. I had done movement workshops with him. Uh-huh. And I I hadn't seen them puppeteer, but I knew they kind of had the spark. So I just sort of texted them one day and said, Hey, you're working all the time. Are you gonna be in town this time and this time?

And they're like, for what? And I went, I think uh City Center, it would be a cow. And Kennedy within a second was like, Yes, I'm available. I will be available. When do you need it? And I didn't put together how of course he wanted to do that. Right, right, right. Um just change your life. Had no idea um, but it was this really it the the th the the character wouldn't have worked without Kennedy. T because he should have been nominated for everything. And he uh was nominated for a drama desk that year, and it didn't end up going that way, which I find horrible. Preposterous. Preposterous. It was literally because Kennedy always will find the sense of humor inside of it. Yes, because they are a playful little DD door that will go go deep into the lore of the character, which you kind of have to do when their face is cardboard, yes, you have to teach us everything.

We had a couple of rehearsals outside of rehearsal, you know, puppet rehearsal as I think you experience kind of on wrinkle, it's usually outside of the normally scheduled rehearsal schedule. Yeah. Just because there's never enough time and Choreo needs to be a little bit more. And you know, there's puppet. You have to kind of improv it together. But we sort of very briefly kind of had a couple chats about like yes, we can do cow research if you want, but think domestic dog. Yes. Be friend, be the friendly. Of course. And also Milky White's old, can't walk very well. Um, is kind of dumb, doesn't know what's going on, and we sort of set a rule, which is like don't do Disney animal. AKA the animal that understands every word that's being said by a person.

Uh-huh. Like, allow it to be a beast, an animal. Yes. But like, let's find the magic moments when they fully understand what Jack just said. The way that your dogs do. Yeah. Anyway, we could go on for days. But that's Milky White. It just really blows my mind that it was something that you were just like asked to do. And so you were like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. And it became the fan favorite part of the entire production. And the merch and all of it. Like that design, not only does it like live on on people's bodies to tattooed and whatever. It's about the Museum of Broadway. We made two Milky White for the tour. There was a backup Milky White. Yeah. But the first one, the original one that is so like pieced together and still hold still together by a hope and a dream.

Is that the Museum of Broadway? And it's crazy. It's just wild that like Milky White is not a character in the play. No, not at all. Like has no lines. Because you could go, because it normally it's like it's a cutout, right? So you go, and it was really great because I kept elbowing to go like Milky White should be back in this scene. Like we should we should get them out for the ever afters at the end. Yeah. You know. And it was very clear that everybody, and Lauren Lataro and everybody kind of got that. Yeah. So we kept finding some stuff. But I mean, all of that stuff, I'm gonna sound so boring, but all that stuff is so collaborative. Yeah. And like Neil Patrick Harris was the baker in the City Center version.

And like we were coming up with bits together about stuff he could do with the cows. Yeah. I mean, there's this funny moment that people did talk about where Milky White dies on stage. And the best way, the best trick to do that is to just have the puppeteer let go of the puppet. And sometimes that can be horrifying that like everybody's childhood dreams have just exploded. Right. And also can be very funny. Hilarious. But that mostly happened because I pitched it with Lear and Neil in the room. And Lear was like, Oh, I think it's gonna break the illusion we shouldn't do that. And Neil was like, No, it's really funny. And then he dropped it a couple times, and everybody started laughing. Uh-huh.

So it's like sometimes you just kind of these things are made up in the room. It's so cool. But it really like that is so lovely to hear because it really like that season, well, that when it was at City Center and then transferred to Broadway, and it was of course like the most star-studded, fabulous, like all these like Broadway icons were in it. Nobody cared about any of them as much as they fucking cared about Milky White. Which by the way was why I had to leave it open. Yeah, it was like a oh yeah, uh we're taking up a lot of space for something that it shouldn't. But it's so brilliant, I think it's amazing. It was one of the most fun times. It was it was because but also, and let's talk a little bit about the Gavin Creel of it all, because what a fucking dream on that show.

Oh my god. I had walked in hoping to pitch that the wolf would be a puppet operated by the princes. Because I thought, and maybe we'd do some disharmony of them both howling together and like, let's make it like grim fairy tale and weird, and it just wasn't gonna happen in the time that we had. But so I was hoping to work with Gavin more, and it wasn't really in the cards, but Gavin, I mean, what a dream because there was I've talked about this, but there was I was like when you're in the tech process and you have no idea if it's working. And we were in tech and we had our first invited dress, and the cow got so much response. Yeah. In a way that I didn't expect. I I was like, ah, it's fine.

It's just a cardboard cow. And the next day, because we had notes in the house the next morning, and Gavin, who we had like a a passing like happy morning, how are you? Like very just sort of a chill interaction. He got very close with Kennedy and it was very sweet. But um Gavin came bounding up to me in that morning when we had notes in the house before our next rehearsal and preview. And Gavin came up to me and went, Did you have any idea it was gonna do that? And I was like, absolutely not. And Gavin said something, and I'm gonna butcher it to the to the to the tune of um no, I knew it was gonna work, James, because uh your work uh it affects people, or something really kind like that. Wow.

And I just um went, Thank you so much, Gavin Creel. And then like, you know, went to Mars. But yeah, um it like it was really cool that the ensemble was seeing he was he was complimenting the boots, and I was like, I didn't you know I don't know if it was gonna work. He said, I knew it was gonna work from the beginning because what you do is really special. I went wow, okay, I'm gonna jump in a river. Of my own tears. Of my own tears. Anyway, just too many anecdotes. I have a lot of. No, I love, I love. Well, I would love to ask too, because you did Little Shop. Okay, so I did Little Shop at the Muni. I didn't do Little Shop on off the current off at the West Side Theater. But I do have friends in that cast.

So I have to ask about a show like that. Versus something like Into the Woods that normally doesn't really have puppetry that much. Sure. Um where, you know, the whole crux of the show is that how was that character? Did you like the puppet? Was the puppet cool? Is there is there ever an instance as a designer and as someone who knows how to operate a puppet where uh previous iterations just can't be erased and you just kind of have to do what has been done before? Or like what how do you take on something that is literally like the iconography of the show is this giant puppet? I think that since my my I've said my synapses are that of an actor, you sort of go, like if you're gonna play Hamlet and there's been many Hamlets before you, you sort of have to find your way in right away.

You kind of have to like you know, there's gonna be some things that like you're gonna still say to be or not to be, but it still has to be something that I'm doing cartwheels. But I'm doing cartwheels because that's me. That's my truth. Yeah. Um but you do have to find your way in. And uh uh Maggie Burroughs directed the Muni Little Shop and from Jump the the offer came in Little Shop and I sort of went, uh I don't know. I I I did I wasn't interested if we were just gonna do the Mario Kart normal normal guy. And Maggie from Jump said, No, I don't want to do that either. I actually think it would be fun if we went a little more creatury, a little more movie monster. I went, I have so much interest in that.

So we ended up throwing a lot of ideas around, and I think I was designing Little Shop while I was in one of maybe the Paper Mill Hercules, because I remember Lear coming up to me while I was sketching and going, What is that? What the hell is that for? You're like, Don't worry, don't worry. Don't worry, it's not your problem. Um, but we the the way in was to find your own way. And obviously listening to a lot of recordings of it. Sure. And just kind of, you know, treating it like how do I because it starts initially of like, how would I want to play this character, even though I'm not the one. Yeah. But also to say, I'm never really interested in implementing the way I would play it on the performer because it shouldn't be.

I just build the character, and then it has to come from then because I have learned if I get too manhandledly or too like micro specific with the any performer. Usually it'll devolve back to what their instinct is after I've left. So like start from their impulse, you know. Anyway, um, but no, it just became about finding some fun references and you know, the Muni's also talk about City Center schedule. It's like have you worked at the Muni? No. You'd have a great time, I think. Because I think you work really fast. I can work fast. Yeah. But it's also the craziest part is that it's not just the learning the show, it's it's over in seven days. You do seven performances and that's it. That's the thing.

Guys, what are we doing here? No, I know, it's crazy. Which means you're building it for a different expectation. Sure, right? But also since the Muni stage is so enormous. Absolutely ginormous. It ends up in any other theater, you'd go, well, it just needs to last seven days. But in a when you need that scale, you have to have different considerations. So there was a lot of conversation of like we just need more money to make it that big. But I mean, the first plant was probably like the size of a beach ball, like before it evolved to the biggest. Wow. And the biggest one. The first one was had to be enormous on that stage, right? Yeah. And the final one we did a full like Godzilla where the plants the plant that we saw grew arms and legs and sort of and that um don't feed the plants at the very end.

Yeah. Um, we just did like a bun, basically a marionette that was like twenty feet tall. Oh my gosh. It was so much fun. Because also it's a it's an it's a show outside and everybody's drunk and you just want everybody to have a cool concert time.

[49:25] James Ortiz: Totally. But it's a it was a but that was sort of the approach I think you just kind of have to you kind of have to put aside the other versions but respect what that means. Respect what those versions are.

[49:38] Jayke Workman: So just you played like Mary Sunshine like how many times now?

[49:41] James Ortiz: Oh yeah five five? I mean different iterations like the tour Broadway and but I presume a pressure on a show that's that established to kind of like hit certain marks.

[49:51] Jayke Workman: Definitely right but you also still have to oh it has to be completely Jake.

[49:56] James Ortiz: Yes absolutely which should be the title of your next podcast completely that gives um the comeback with Lisa Gro it's like that's my which is coming back.

[50:08] Jayke Workman: Yes for a final season.

[50:10] James Ortiz: Can't wait iconic can't wait for stupid that show it is um so do you not have any interest in puppeteering the things that you design ever like are there ever times when you're like I would like to be the actor doing well this is a real this is a what a beautiful segue because I there's a couple of times that it has happened. I enjoy the performance side of it and I also love so much of the stuff that I end up designing is something that would be called Boon Raku puppetry which for people that don't know um you're right.

[50:45] Jayke Workman: Um that's a slur, and I should learn my lesson.

[50:48] James Ortiz: Um, but it's basically a type of Japanese puppetry that is operated by many people to create one character, right? And what's really fun about that is that it is the nature of collaboration in every way you can imagine. Like somebody's job is just to be the leg, somebody's job is just to be the face.

[51:05] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[51:06] James Ortiz: But there was a time when we did skin of our teeth that I ended up going on stage to pla to play the head of the dinosaur, which was not in the cards, but it was because COVID was happening and the understudy um was injured and couldn't go on, and Tony voters were coming that week. So it was a thing of like, oh do I have to? But it was actually really fun. Fun and really uh, you know, I'm I'm very comfortable on a stage, but it was this weird thing of having seen the show a bajillion times and then getting I mean learning the track very quickly because in a weird way you don't really learn the track when you're outside of it, right? So I had to learn it really quickly. But I went on for about a week of shows while we were training an understudy of an understudy. And it was the weirdest part was like, you know, I have to play the character, but also I have to check in with other actors and play with them.

[51:59] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[51:59] James Ortiz: And it was crazy to sort of see Gabby Beans in front of me and go, why is she so close to me? Normally she's farther. I'm on stage right now. It was so bizarre. But speaking of puppetry and puppeteering, because Oh yes, I was gonna ask, is there a difference in those words for you?

[52:14] James Ortiz: So puppetry is the art that encompasses all the pieces of it. So design, direction, um, fabrication, got it, repair. Um talking about that equity document that's like I broke into like seven jobs. But puppeteering is the verb. The actual act of the doing of it.

[52:32] Jayke Workman: Yeah, right.

[52:33] James Ortiz: So you are a puppeteer because you puppeteered in Wrinkle and Time.

[52:37] Jayke Workman: Got it.

[52:37] James Ortiz: Um and also I would say if you were on stage with a puppet, you're also a puppeteer. But uh nobody pays attention to your resume anyway. Um but um speaking of puppeteering, which again I haven't I had to say I've been focusing on being on the outside, which is really fun. And you know, you get to kind of shepherd, you know, again, my mother's a teacher, so I also have the synapses of a teacher. But um I I as a performer did my first movie last year.

[53:05] Jayke Workman: Oh yes.

[53:06] James Ortiz: Which is Hooray Z.

[53:08] Jayke Workman: Yes, and doesn't it come out like very soon?

[53:09] James Ortiz: Uh it comes out March 20th, 2026.

[53:12] Jayke Workman: Oh my called Project Hail Mary.

[53:14] James Ortiz: Yes. And I don't know if there's much overlap in your audiences from Broadway fans to like hard sci-fi Ryan Gosling summer movie.

[53:22] Jayke Workman: I think it absolutely the Venn diagram is a circle.

[53:25] James Ortiz: Great. I love hearing that. I'll I'll I'll speak very briefly because also um the press tour is only now starting, and we're all figuring out like how much of a to like divulge, right?

[53:37] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[53:38] James Ortiz: But basically, um for those of you that haven't read the book, it's it's sort of a buddy comedy in space. Um Ryan Gossing is this astronaut who's been sent to figure out why the sun is dimming, and he goes to one place in the galaxy where the sun hasn't been dimmed to find do research, and an alien in a spaceship shows up to ask the same questions.

[53:59] Jayke Workman: So you're doing a wrinkle in time.

[54:01] James Ortiz: I had finished that movie. I had literally finished that movie. The wrinkle offer came in, and literally the character in the film is named Rocky, and he's an alien that s doesn't speak in English, speaks in echo location and sound waves, which is Ant Beast, for those of you that are paying attention. Um, he doesn't have a face. He doesn't, he doesn't, he's sort of um it's this is how he's described in the book, so I'm not giving anything away. But he's this little like three foot tall, uh s almost like a crab creature that echo locates everything, and they sing in this beautiful sort of like multi-harmony discordant sort of whale song.

[54:38] Jayke Workman: And he has five legs, which meant I have five puppeteers attached to me, and or four, depending on the scene.

[54:44] James Ortiz: And basically, because it's this it's directed by um uh Phil Lord and Chris Miller who did the Spider-Verse movie.

[54:50] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[54:51] James Ortiz: And like Lego movies and the 21 Jump Street, and so the most of the film, by the way, because most of it is about these two friends that are trying to solve this problem.

[55:01] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[55:01] James Ortiz: And also we figure out a way that Ryan learns my language and I speak English. So the job was actually improv with a puppet every day.

[55:11] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[55:11] James Ortiz: Which was so insane and so cool. Dreamy. Oh my god, I can't tell you the things that I learned working with that human who is Ryan is like one of the one of the greatest actors of our generation, yes, but also like what a d lovely, decent human that really like had my back when like we were having tricky, like just complicated days.

[55:33] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[55:33] James Ortiz: What a dream. But the whole movie is this like two people, two in two beings that are trying to figure out how to solve this problem with all of their own isms and is so it kind of becomes this really beautiful conversation about like connection, yeah, friendship. It feels very post-lockdown in a way that's really potent.

[55:54] Jayke Workman: Oh my god, I'm so excited to see it.

[55:57] James Ortiz: There's it's so funny and um I got to see a cut the other day.

[56:00] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[56:01] James Ortiz: And it's really moving, it's really funny, and there was I think the hardest part of the job was me in an emotional scene, trying to not cry when Ryan was being so good.

[56:12] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[56:13] James Ortiz: Because my character doesn't understand human emotion.

[56:15] Jayke Workman: Uh-huh.

[56:16] James Ortiz: So I was in a booth doing scenes with him, going like I won't say lines that I'm supposed to not say, but like fully going like yes, no understand. Like it was so charming. Anyway. It's gonna be really beautiful. It's gonna be everywhere.

[56:33] James Ortiz: That one was really different. And I'm again, I'm gonna try to keep it tight because this is a Broadway podcast.

[56:38] Jayke Workman: No, I but I asked.

[56:39] James Ortiz: Yeah. Um, so the designer of the creature is a guy named Neil Scanlon.

[56:45] Jayke Workman: Neil Scanlon has many Oscars for he was one of the original Jim Hanson creature shop people in the 80s.

[56:52] James Ortiz: He worked on all the original Star Wars. He's not that old of a fella.

[56:55] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[56:56] James Ortiz: Really like a rock star. And I, you know, I went through an audition process. Um, I uh literally some uh casting directors sort of found me and said, go in for this. And um I had a chemistry read with Ryan and the producers and the directors and everything. But I got the gig and they said, We're not shooting for several months, but can you come to London and meet the creature shop and sort of start working with them? And I was like, I don't know. Like w again that conversation of like whose job is who? Like what am I doing? Right. So I sort of sat down with Neil day one. I got to see some sketches and early, they hadn't even finished building Rocky yet. And he was like, I was like, How does this work? Like, are you gonna be giving me like are you gonna be puppet directing? Like, am I just the clay?

[57:38] James Ortiz: Like, how do tell me what and I'll say yes. And he said, No, no, no, this is what I think. You're Frank Oz, and my job is to build Yoda the way that you want Yoda to be built.

[57:49] Jayke Workman: Whoa.

[57:49] James Ortiz: Which by the way, oh my god. Get that tattooed on my lower back. Like, are you kidding? What a crazy thing.

[57:49] Jayke Workman: Oh my god.

[57:56] James Ortiz: So that was the beginning of it, and then I got to hire the rest of the other puppeteers locally and sort of find the team that I wanted to work with and be in a pit with.

[58:04] Jayke Workman: You know your vibe, yeah.

[58:06] James Ortiz: And um we just got to it because there was so many technical movies. I mean, we're in zero G sometimes, so that means you have to get Ryan on wires.

[58:15] Jayke Workman: Which takes a long time.

[58:16] James Ortiz: Yeah. And this has also been said, so I guess I can say it. Because we're on a spaceship most of the time, an Earth spaceship. The trailer's on um YouTube, so you can see it.

[58:26] Jayke Workman: Are you in the trailer?

[58:29] James Ortiz: Uh the puppet characters in the trailer, we're it is also not. We're trying to not show ever all of it yet.

[58:35] Jayke Workman: Oh, sure.

[58:36] James Ortiz: So there's a little hint of it that you see a couple, you see some hands. Um, but um, because there's a lot of moments in the story where this is so hard science. It's based on a book by Andy Weir, who wrote The Martian.

[58:48] Jayke Workman: Oh, I love vi that right.

[58:50] James Ortiz: Yeah. It's very like really accurate science fiction.

[58:54] Jayke Workman: Cool.

[58:54] James Ortiz: So there's a whole thing about like from zero G when you're floating in space to gravity, the spaceship has to rotate, and when it rotates, it's in a different orientation. So if it's horizontal, it is now long ways, which meant they built the set and would take six weeks off to rotate the set long ways for all the scenes that were floating versus all the scenes that were gravity.

[59:15] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[59:15] James Ortiz: Anyway, we can go on for days. It's too much.

[59:17] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[59:17] James Ortiz: It's crazy. And me being a nerd and always being a feeling like an alien in real life. It was so it was like, oh, I don't have to work at playing this part. But yeah, talk about I did puppetry.

[59:30] Jayke Workman: I puppeteered.

[59:31] James Ortiz: I puppeteered on that show.

[59:33] Jayke Workman: In puppetry.

[59:34] James Ortiz: Yeah. It's so special.

[59:35] Jayke Workman: Well, I could just chat with you forever, James. You are such a delight. Thank you so so much for coming out.

[59:43] James Ortiz: This was so much fun. What a weird, bizarre fun time. Would you um tell the listeners where they can find you and keep up with all of your goodness?

[59:52] James Ortiz: Yeah, so I'm on I have a website that is James Ortiz.co. Like I'm British, I guess.

[59:59] Jayke Workman: Um we couldn't UK.

[1:00:01] James Ortiz: Yeah, exactly. We couldn't find um comm for some reason, but it's James Ortiz.co. And then I'm on Instagram and TikTok as Jortface because J-Ortiz, J-O-R-T-F-A-C-E. And um you can get me there and hopefully, certainly after March, I'll be posting lots of things of that movie and all the behind the scenes that I can share.

[1:00:21] Jayke Workman: Hell yeah.

[1:00:21] James Ortiz: But um until then I've obviously I can't.

[1:00:23] Jayke Workman: But um until then they have the pod.

[1:00:25] James Ortiz: Until then they have the pod. They can listen to your sweet pods.

[1:00:28] Jayke Workman: And uh hopefully you're gonna be doing a bunch of stuff.

[1:00:31] James Ortiz: It's it's I don't know about you. I know you're trying to wrap up. I don't know about you, but also um post um last November. Um it seems like uh theater is not as funded as it used to be.

[1:00:44] Jayke Workman: Oh, yeah.

[1:00:45] James Ortiz: Have you noticed? So it's interesting to see the that that it took it a lot of things are just not happening.

[1:00:54] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[1:00:54] James Ortiz: And the things that are are really, really special.

[1:00:57] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[1:00:57] James Ortiz: So there was definitely a moment and I've sort of checked in with all my other theater people to sort of go, is anybody else feeling like nobody's calling them? And the answer is yes.

[1:01:06] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[1:01:06] James Ortiz: And also it is coming back.

[1:01:07] Jayke Workman: So thank God.

[1:01:08] James Ortiz: It's nice to be having something to do these days.

[1:01:11] Jayke Workman: Well, James, I freaking love ya.

[1:01:14] James Ortiz: I love you too.

[1:01:15] Jayke Workman: Thank you for being on the pod. This was a dream.

[1:01:17] James Ortiz: X O XOXO.

[1:01:19] Jayke Workman: You guys, that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Thank you so, so much for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod, and you can follow the show on Instagram at ohmypoduguys. Talk soon. Bye.

[1:01:34] ♪ Musical number: "Oh My Pod" — performed by Jayke Workman ♪