This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jayke Workman: Wee woo wee woo breaking news. Attention, attention. New York City was just hit by a 4.7 magnitude earthquake. And I felt nothing. Oh my god, did you hear? Did you hear? Did you hear? Oh my god, guys. Take that high. Oh my god, oh my god, you guys! What's up, everybody? My name is Jayke Workman, and this is Oh My Pod U Guys, a musical theater and pop culture podcast. You guys, this is literally true. This breaking news, apparently. Manhattan and the tri-state area was hit by an earthquake, and everyone and their mother felt it except for me. I can't even be feeling an earthquake with everybody. I have to be alone. Whatever. I don't even know what I would have done if I felt an earthquake. But hide under my covers.

Anyway, what's up, you guys? Hi, how are we? Missia. You guys, this week has been so strange. I just took a dance class for the first time in a few weeks, and it felt so incredible to move my body. It felt so nice to be with other creative people in a space where it was not about showing off or doing it for the social media of it all. It was just about having fun and dancing, which felt so wonderful. I also had the beautiful opportunity to see the very first preview of the new play Patriots, playing at the Ethel Barrymore Theater on Broadway. And you guys, this is a very interesting piece. It played the West End and won multiple Oliviers. But this piece is an interesting one, you guys. And honestly, we have to dive right into this week's Broadway World recap talking about this play because Broadway World reported that the actual star of the play, Michael Stuhlbarg, who plays Boris Barzovski, was attacked in Central Park the day before this very first preview that I happened to attend.

And he did the show flawlessly. You would never have known that this person was literally like physically assaulted the day before and was able to come to work and bring everything with him. I mean, I was so, so impressed by his performance. Um, but obviously horrible that he was attacked in Central Park. So wishing you well, Mr. Stuhlbarg, and wishing your entire company a beautiful Broadway run. Okay, but you guys also in a crazy twist. Broadway World also reported that this was not even the only attack on a Broadway performer in New York City on that day, because John Cardoza, who plays Young Noah in The Notebook on Broadway, was held at gunpoint in a Dunkin' Donuts in Harlem on the same day.

Like, you guys, things are getting kooky crazy. This is not an attempt to fearmonger at all, but people feel like they can do things with impunity, and it's getting scary. So we have to work together to stay vigilant and keep our eyes open and speak up when we see things happening around us, because things are getting dangerous and it's not cute. Held at gunpoint in a Dunkin' Donuts for what? No ma'am. He took to his social media and he said, you know, this is the world we're living in. I, of course, am always as careful as possible, but we just need to stay vigilant. But it's like, okay, how are we supposed to stay vigilant? Not to get all wee woo wee woo political, but it's like we are putting hundreds and hundreds of police officers into the subways to quote unquote protect civilians.

Where were they? Where were they when we needed them? In Central Park. In a sub in a Dunkin' Donuts. Like, oh, this is so scary. But I'm so impressed with his openness and his candor about the incident and his ability to go right to work after this happened and do a show, and I'm wishing you all of the best, Mr. Cardoza. Next, you guys, on a rather lighter note, uh, Broadway World shared the very exciting announcement that Jim Parsons, Katie Holmes, and more are going to lead Kenny Leon's Our Town revival on Broadway. You guys, this is so exciting. This new Broadway production of the amazing play by Thornton Wilder is going to feature Emmy, Golden Globe, and Screen Actors Guild Award winner Jim Parsons in the role of the stage manager, Zoe Deutsch as Emily Webb, Katie Holmes as Mrs. Webb, Billy Eugene Jones as Dr. Gibbs, Ephraim Sykes as George Gibbs.

Like, you guys, the list goes on. Richard Thomas, Michelle Wilson, Julie Halston. You guys, this cast is crazy. This will be the first major Broadway revival of this Pulitzer Prize-winning play in almost 25 years, and I am just so excited about it. It is set to begin previews on Tuesday, September 17th, ahead of an official opening night on Thursday, October 10th at the Barrymore Theater for a strictly limited engagement. So you guys get those tickets today. And lastly, you guys, Broadway World shared that Daniel Radcliffe, Jonathan Groff, and Lindsay Mendez will announce this year's Outer Critics Circle nominations. The three stars of Merrily We Roll Along will host the live announcement of the 73rd annual Outer Critics Circle Award nominations on Tuesday, April 23rd.

And all three hosts were actually nominees last season for their roles in Merrily. So I think these are perfect candidates to host this event. Jonathan Groff and Lindsay Mendez actually won in their categories, which is amazing. So I'm so excited. And you guys, this has been the Broadway World recap. Oh my pod, you guys. I am so excited to welcome my next guest to the show. She is a writer, composer, lyricist, and actor. Please welcome Miss Murphy Taylor Smith to the podcast.

[6:20] Murphy Taylor Smith: Hello, thanks for having me on.

[6:22] Jayke Workman: Thank you for being here. I am so, so excited to chat with you. When our mutual friend, Miss Lisa Stephen Friday, mentioned that she had a lovely friend who would be an excellent candidate for the podcast, I was like, say no more! Say no more. I'm ready. We'll pay her every direction. That's just my rule of life. Follow Lisa.

[6:43] Murphy Taylor Smith: Correct.

[6:44] Jayke Workman: Absolutely. Well, thank you so, so much for coming on the podcast. Um, before we dive into everything, I'd love to know where are you calling in from?

[6:53] Murphy Taylor Smith: Calling in from Brooklyn, New York, East. So, you know, yeah. Representing for all the trans girls of Brooklyn. All the clubs. BK, baby.

[7:02] Jayke Workman: Yes. The trans girlies in Brooklyn are represented beautifully today on the podcast.

[7:10] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes.

[7:11] Jayke Workman: Oh my gosh. Well, we have so much to talk about. I, of course, will get into um you know asking about Doll/Girl, your very exciting show that's coming up. Um, but first, I would love to talk about your experience in the show Transparent, because I've had the pleasure of having uh a few of your castmates in on the podcast, Miss Peppermint and also um Liz Larson.

[7:37] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, Liz Larson. Oh my god, I was like, I'm having a stroke. Um, yes, two incredible people who obviously have different experiences with the the you know world of like the trans community. Liz spoke a lot about her learning experience through that that show and that process. But tell me, what was your road to uh being a part of that musical?

[7:59] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, um, so it's funny you bring up Liz and Peppermint too, because they are both like icons of respective worlds that I tread in. Like Peppermint is someone who I watched when I was not out of the closet but admired so much, and seeing her journey on Drag Race was like so important to me. And then seeing Liz, who I would listen to on the Star Mites original Broadway cast recording, was obsessed with in all those ways. Um it was it's truly a show where I got to meet a lot of um people, just dreamy people who I've looked up to my whole life, including the Soloways, um Joey and Faith, who created the show. Both, you know, Joey created the original TV show, and then Joey and Faith together are writing the musical with MJ Kaufman.

Um but yeah, I came to the show actually, right, like literally the same week I moved to Brooklyn. So the same week I kind of finally got to New York, because I was a pandemic graduate. So I graduated in 2020, so I had that whole kind of funny stop and start aspect to the the start of my kind of professional life. But I finally made it to Brooklyn in 2022 and was kind of living in the city for the first time. And that same week got a one-week reading of Transparent, totally just uh cold emailed by Charlie Hanow at Telsey, who has now become my personal uh hero. He did have some opportunities. Um, but uh yeah, we uh got started, and I was coming in to do the Catherine Hahn part, Rabbi Raquel.

[9:28] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[9:28] Murphy Taylor Smith: And of course, it was one of those things where you know, when you're uh, you know, a little blonde Christian girl like I am, I was like, oh, hilarious, I'll read this once for one week and you know, never come back to it. It just will be one of those things that you are kind of involved with for a brief moment. But I also had that immense like this show was so important to me when I was a kid. I literally used to watch this show and talk about it with my parents to kind of like create the space for my own coming out. It was really important to me as a young, like 13, 14-year-old person who knew I was trans and was trying to come out, but didn't have didn't know how to talk to my parents about it, didn't know how to have those conversations.

Um we did that first week, and I was in a room literally with people who I admired so much, Peppermint, Liz, Sarah Styles, another one who I just like adored all of these people. And um I was like, never mind if they ever take this away from me, I'll scream and cry and throw a huge tantrum because I just I have to do this part forever. It was immediately just like such a click moment um of both getting to feel like you're seen in a room and understood by a room, but also like you're contributing because when it's so fresh and and the people writing it all have this one very specific perspective on transness, and then I'm coming in with my other, like more like Gen Z perspective on being a trans woman, um, all of those things sat in the room, I think, in such a beautiful way.

And we were able to like, yeah, just take parts of the show and reconfigure them as a cast, and that energy of collaboration really carried through all the way in the production in LA last year, and we're hoping uh into future productions. They've always been a team who just like wanted all of the thoughts, all of the creative, collaborative energy, um, which makes sense when you have a room full of like Broadway legends and young trans people who are like just starting out. It's like kind of a fascinating thing to put together.

[11:16] Jayke Workman: Yes, um, and that like that uh collaboration, I think ended up with a really fruitful production, something that was like full of all of this classic Broadway material and love for that, and also saying, but actually fuck this and fuck this and fuck this. We need to like create ways, new avenues of of uh producing these kinds of stories.

[11:37] Murphy Taylor Smith: Totally. I mean, it's fantastic, and I think it's so it's a really there's such a clear difference between um art that is about trans people and art that is by trans people. And so it's I think it's really a beautiful um like the Venn diagram between like how you said, you know, this like classic world of Broadway and what we have come to know as like commercial theater being mixed with the truths that need to be uh uh told. It's really exciting, and I just think it's so fantastic that you know, you and other trans people have been given this, you know, however small it may be now, this platform that could really turn into something huge. I mean, there I I think it's you know, not any secret that it's like a quote unquote Broadway-bound uh musical, which would be fantastic. Um, do you have do you have like hopes and interests to to get to do it in New York?

[12:36] Murphy Taylor Smith: Oh my gosh, of course. I mean, I mean, what you know, theater baby growing up doesn't want to make it to Broadway. Obviously, that's always the dream.

[12:45] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um, and I think specifically for trans people, because when you feel like, you know, I remember when I was 13, and again, I was one of those trans girls who knew when I was very young. Um, I knew what the problem was. I just didn't think there was an actual solution to it. Right. Um, and when I was 13 or 14 is when I first started like discovering what being trans was and understanding that from like a oh, like there actually is a medical social path you can follow if you want to pursue this life. But to me, it was like very clear. And theater was my like one love. It was the thing I love more than anything else. And I was like, it was very clear. It was like either you go and do theater as a boy, basically, or you can like live as yourself and be happy emotionally, spiritually, in your body, all of those things.

And at the time I very much thought I was rejecting theater. I thought I was like, you know, saying, Well, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to step away from theater. Um, and that is so painful. And also feels often, you know, that lesson feels uh confirmed a lot of the times when you're in the industry because so many places aren't ready for trans people in their shows, or they'll they'll say they are, you know, and then where they actually you you know, you send the follow-up email like, it's so great that you're open to inclusive casting. Like, would you be interested in someone whose voice sounds like mine for this role? And they're like, Oh, actually, no. Sorry, no. Yeah, exactly.

So yeah. So to be faith, you know, to have this moment where again the aspiration is is Broadway and and getting to do the show in New York and share it with our New York friends um it feels like even more than just my little like oh my god Broadway um like even more than that it's like that confirmation of like you can have both you can like be yourself be a trans person be a trans woman in this world and like yeah make it make it to that level in our profession um it it definitely feels we just feel like the biggest accomplishment and again just an honor to do it with like amazing trans people who I've looked up to like since I was a baby trans person.

[14:45] Jayke Workman: Yes, it's just amazing well you you touched on it a little bit but I would love to know if you'd be willing to share about the the experience of knowing so early in your life that there was something different about your identity and you know not necessarily knowing the answer or what outcome was gonna come but I think you are a really really special case because you have a twin sister who is also a trans woman and I just I I think it's fascinating and beautiful that you guys are both here and working together to tell queer and trans stories using your art but how did that how did you guys navigate that I mean like did you guys talk about it were you like oh me too?

[14:45] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um yeah, I mean it's it's a lot of our uh you know we're actually it's funny to frame this is that we're working on this show right now um a two per a two-person show for the two of us to perform that's a bit of our like because people obviously are interested in our story and want to hear about it. So like it's kind of framed as our story while also being a bit of a twist or subversion on those those kinds of narratives. Sure. Um so it's all of this is very fresh in my mind. And I've been thinking about how I how I like to talk about this and how I like to kind of like because in many ways you'd hope or you'd wish, you know, that this would somehow make it like easier, like if you could recognize it in in each other, then there's this sense of like normalcy or or um support that would come along with that.

And sadly for the two of us, it was uh in some ways another barrier because I think both of us have a lot of we understood the social uh risks that are taken when you come out and the and how uh hard that is, and how hard that is not only for the person who's doing it, but for the people around you.

[16:39] Murphy Taylor Smith: And so I think there was this sense from both of us at different times of like only one of us can do this. And so even when we recognized it in each other, it was like if this if this is even going to happen, one of us has to take some kind of fall. And I remember after I had been out, um, because I we have a whole complicated, you know, story of like going in the cars, coming back out of the closet, it was a whole thing. But at one point while I was out as a as a 14-year-old, um, and she came to me and said, like, I I I think I want I need to do this too. I need to go down this same path. And less than three months later, I detransitioned. I like went back in the closet. And I think it was a lot of like this kind of I was like, well, okay, you can do this, and I'll take the fall for you.

Like all. So it is kind of um, it's sad to look back on because you know, even in like 2012, which feels like oh, that was a time where there was more, there was more, you know, language or opportunity or understanding, you know, more than it was in 2002, say. Sure. Um, it's uh there was just I think both of us had a lot of fear, and when you're a twin, and this is something that's like, especially when you're identical, when you have similar interests, you want to work in the same field, you're always also trying to differentiate from each other and and find, you know, your own identity as separate individuals.

[17:15] Jayke Workman: Right.

[17:15] Murphy Taylor Smith: And I think it was it's both the joy and the pain of that, um, of feeling like, oh my gosh, there's someone who literally is following the same path as me. And then there's also like resentment and suspicion in that. It's like, but but I was gonna be this, I was gonna do this, I was gonna do that, I was gonna have be the one who was who was living this way. Um, and I think so. Our show that we're writing right now, which is called Watchdog, it's about two identical women who aren't related and have never met each other each other before, but have this chance encounter in lower Manhattan and just destroy each other's lives. Um it's uh it's kind of in that world of like, you know, psychodrama like persona or three women, Robert Altman movie movie, and it's really based on this uh Christoph Christophsk Christoph Kislowski movie um called The Double Life of Verenik, which has a kind of similar idea behind it.

[18:44] Murphy Taylor Smith: But we're just always we're in we're living a very twin life right now. We we live together, we're often we do a lot of shows together, we do a lot of creating together, more you know, than I think when we were off in school in different places and kind of building our own identities, and then it's kind of crashed back into like wow, we're like living this New York City artist twin life, and it's just kind of a fascinating existence, especially when you work in a field that isn't super welcoming to your identity, right? So we're we are having to create our own opportunities, and it's uh yeah, it can just be um like it can be a little like you're living a sitcom. So we're trying to put that energy into uh this show we're writing right now that hopefully will be our our great answer to like so what the hell was that like growing up? Because it seems crazy.

[19:28] Jayke Workman: Yeah, well, and I think you you have you know framed it so beautifully that like we can tell any story uh however heavy or not, but we have to we have to include that little edge of levity, that little sense of humor and the the sparkle in your eye because the you know, at the end of the day, you guys have this insanely specific scenario going on, but at the same time, your experience could be so universal and could reach so many people and and uh help people connect and understand. So I'm I'm so excited. That is so cool. So, where are you guys in the um in the process of creating that?

[20:08] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, so we've been working on it like seriously for about four or five months. Um, we actually just premiered the first kind of slate of songs at an event at Here Arts about two weeks ago. Um, and uh it was just so thrilling. We got great feedback and something we really want for the piece, you know. We so agree. It's like I'm reminded, like, I just feel like there is people always want sanctity around their important issue shows, you know. It's like, oh, we have to like delicately hold, but trans identity, you know, whether whatever kind of like gender fuckery you live, like anywhere along that that explosive gender binary. Um it's like it's so stupid. Like we live such silly, like ridiculous like it's it's just it has to have that like punch of that humor because that is like I feel like the defining characteristic of our community um is that like ability to laugh in the face of whatever shit we get thrown.

[21:00] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[21:01] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um, so uh we really want it to be funny. That's like the utmost priority to us. Um we got to kind of get an audience reaction, and we want a workshop, but we've been saying it almost like it's stand-up, you know. Like every time we have a new 15th set of material, it's a very bit-based show. So we're trying to just throw it up in front of people. We're doing another gig tomorrow night, actually, um, at Parkside, we're sharing some work from it, and then the week after that, we're doing some more stuff in Bushwick. So, again, just trying to like get it in front of people, get the audience response because such a big part of it that we want to really craft is like you know a bit of that kind of claire barren intensity funny, like I don't want to say gross out, but almost in that like gross out like lens.

[21:42] Jayke Workman: Love it.

[21:42] Murphy Taylor Smith: Well, okay, so I'm I'm so interested to know as a trans woman in the world of musical theater. I would imagine that you are sort of you could easily fall prey to people um either putting you in a box or just you know, sort of like fetishizing for lack of a better word, your identity as someone that they could use for something. Um, so I I wanna I'm wondering, I guess, if there is a difference for you in creating your own work versus being out and proud and going into an audition room and saying, This is who I am and this is the way that I act or sing or dance or whatever. And how you navigate that the difference between you know being cast in something by someone else versus you saying this is this story I've created, so obviously I'm able to tell it.

[22:40] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think like one thing I'm I'll just say up front is I'm super lucky to have amazing um agents and management team who like does a a really good job of kind of like handling the nitty-gritty of those interpersonal, like making sure I'm gonna be safe and seen in a room, like not sending me into because there are a lot of there are just a lot of calls that I just won't won't won't go to. Um and I think that was something I really had to learn coming out of the pandemic is like when I would read a script or get um sides or and and hear something and just be like, oh, this is they really don't understand anything about transness, anything about my identity. I'm totally if I was in this or even in the room, I would just be there as a yardstick of like how progressive we are, how much work we're doing to, you know, be expansive and and and all of that.

[23:28] Murphy Taylor Smith: And especially I think you can tell when you're just in a big LGBTQ pot that they've like poured out into the casting room, and it's like you actually don't you don't want me. Like you clearly want someone of a very different life experience, but I'm just in this room or in this situation because you don't think there's really trans people. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Which is like just and I know that happens to tons of tons of uh trans people in general, dolls especially. Um, and uh I think something a big change a big change for me has been um because I used to feel like unless I'm cre a creative on it, it's really hard for me to trust that I'm going to be taken care of or or seen or that even just my identity or my work is not going to be seen as like a prop to be used.

Um and recently, especially in the last year, I've just gotten to work with so many other trans creatives who are like, you know, they aren't I'm not r involved with the writing or I'm not involved with that kind of side of things, but I'm getting to work on pieces that I really care about, really um uh believe in in this way that I I really didn't think was possible in the first couple years out of school, especially during the pandemic.

[24:41] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um, like, you know, doll girl definitely being one of those, but also um transparent, of course. I was just working on this great new piece that's being developed right now by um Adam J. Rainier, who's a non-binary um composer lyricist called The Third Sex, um, which is like found text from the Weimar Berlin of this transgender magazine that was published, um, which is just fantastic. So it's like what's amazing right now, and what's sad, honestly, for Broadway, you know, is that there actually is this great, like underground trans theater scene happening right now. Um it's it's so inspiring, and I'm I'm finding myself in more and more pockets of it where just like you would not you'd be so amazed by the work that's being done.

And of course, it's not mainstream, it's not getting a ton of financial or or or eyes on it or anything like that, but that has just like renewed my um love of this, and also give given me the strength, I feel like I need to then walk into those rooms where it's like, okay, I'm not really here to redefine anyone's expectations of transness or trans womanhood.

[25:44] Murphy Taylor Smith: I'm here to be the trans girl, and that's okay. Like, I know not every experience I walk into is going to be like we're really here to like, you know, upend narratives and flip the script and all this stuff. Like sometimes you are, you know, you are there to be representation and like hell yeah, you know. I've done plenty of shows where like I was a little bit like okay, a little tepid, a little tame, and then had young trans people write to me after the show or come up to me at the end of the night and be like, I you don't understand how much this meant to me to see you up there and those kinds of things. So it's like you have, you know, I would never turn my back on that kind of more mainstream avenue because I know it does affect people, it does change people.

And I certainly was affected and changed by things I look back on now and I'm like, wow, like that's not excellent, but it meant the world to me when I was 12 or 13. So it's that balance and having like a trans community of theater artists you can make stuff with and feel passionate about, and I mean, that's what like is changing my world right now about Doll/Girl because it feels like this is so special, it has the potential to cross over and be something that a lot of people would get excited about and would be able to see because it's just such a necessary story told so well with such exciting music and energy behind it.

[27:02] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, so let's talk about it because I had the brilliant writer of the show, Lisa Stephen Friday's, on the pod, and it was so so wonderful to speak to her, but I'd love to hear your perspective as the performer of this show, because you are playing Greer Lankton, who was a real person and who created this wild body of work that involves like puppets and you know, all of these beautiful dolls. Like tell me, I mean, even just the title, Doll/Girl. There's I don't think that people who are not adjacent to the queer community even understand the sort of like double entendre of this title because we so lovingly refer to trans women as the dolls often, which is just like a beautiful wink in this title. But what drew you to this piece and how has it been to basically create this with the writers?

[28:08] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, so definitely Greer is an amazing artist, a person whose story I had never heard before, which is one of those things you just look and you're like, how could I not have heard of her? She's literally in all the photos, you know, of Basquiat and Warhol, like she's there in the middle. Like she's just there, but no one talks about her at Pays and Engineer in that same way. When she was creating this just amazing body of work as an out trans woman in, you know, in the 80s and the 90s, it's like one of those things you're like, that can't have happened, you know. It's like the Wendy Carlos adult. And everyone was just like, oh, that's fine, actually. But so I first learned about it from Lisa, and Lisa and I met working on a workshop with Transparent, and I was immediately floored by her talent.

Her voice obviously is unbelievable. And then I was at a concert of hers at Pangaea. And she was like, I'm gonna share these first two songs of this new musical that I'm writing. And I mean, I was just immediately floored by the music. I hadn't heard her original stuff before, and I was so shocked by like the intensity of the lyric and music. It was like this immediate recognition of like, okay, well, regardless of what this story is, I love this score. It's so gripping. So when the kind of show had been, and again, they wrote this in like a year, which is just musicals don't get written that fast. It's crazy. And when it was wrapping around for a first workshop production of it, we were gonna do at Judson's. I just wanted to be involved in any way possible.

I would have done anything, I would have come and music supervised, you know, I would have done anything to be involved. But Lisa and I got together and sang the material in a rehearsal studio somewhere in Midtown Manhattan. And I think all me, Lisa, and Joseph, who's the book writer and lyricist, it was just, we all felt that this immediate like, oh, this feels very right, very right.

[30:11] Murphy Taylor Smith: And I think what's great about Greer as the center of a musical like this, kind of a fever dream musical, is that her whole body of work embodies that line between fantasy and reality. And I think that's like why we call that's why we're dolls, right? It's like it's that label that always gets thrown at us of falseness, of being fake, of being tricksters, like this way that we trap or trick men or you know, just fool the world into thinking we're women. And with Greer, like that artifice was her whole raison d'être to make art. Like she loved exploring that boundary, and it gave her this way of finding and erasing those false binaries that exist in all of our lives. In terms of musical language, like it's just a show where story, dialogue, lyric, music, all of these things flow and fade out of each other in a way that feels more like a concert than it does like a musical.

And yet you have these, and you know, you have just dolls, these inanimate objects just coming to life in front of us and taking over the narrative. And it's just so, it's a show of magic. It's a show of illusion. And I think the greatest illusion Greer lived was like her output, her artistic output, as opposed to the just, I mean, unbelievable struggles that she was dealing with. I mean, I always think that like it's fascinating for Greer because in many ways her transness was like the least challenging thing of her life. Like she, of course, like dealt with her transness and exclusion and discrimination because of that. But when you compare to her battles with anorexia and drug addiction and just the substance abuse that followed her whole life, I mean, those were her battles.

So I think it's a fascinating story in many ways because the transness is in the art. So the transness is joy, and yet you still have that immense struggle that she went through and that she lost her life to that we're trying to honor and respect by not shying away from any of it, by letting all of those contradictions live in the same person. I mean, her output was just absolutely wild. I mean, she was the amount that she was using and the amount that she was dealing with, and then just being able to create and create and create. It was like you know, this faucet that never turned off. I think there's a lot that both for Lisa and I, like we see a lot of ourselves in Greer and like how we work and our dedication to our art, and then comparing that to like, you know, just a world that was unable to care for her in the way she needed to be cared for.

Because I think that's what it really comes down to at the end of the day that she had these needs that were just not being met, especially by her New York artistic community. So she had to, you know, move back to Chicago. She had to kind of leave those networks, and because of that, her art was kind of forgotten about. It wasn't as held as some of the other titans of that era in terms of like just these amazing works of pop art. Until now, because you guys get to share this beautiful story with New York City. I cannot wait. I'm gonna be there. I'm so so thrilled. I'll be there on April 15th at Joe's Pub.

[33:45] Murphy Taylor Smith: So tell me, what is the sort of do you know the trajectory of like this is your first sort of like showing of it in this capacity? But are there potential for this show to do something else and to be you know like a fully staged, fully realized musical experience?

[34:08] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, definitely. So we have the show on April 15th, we have another at Joe's Pub on June 3rd, which still has tickets available. The April 15th show is sold out. That's right, maybe. But and then we're gonna be looking to do we're gonna be doing another workshop in the summer, kind of like taking another big developmental step in terms of finalizing the book and getting a greater understanding of how the story moves just in narrative space. And then yeah, onwards and upwards from there. Hopefully, we're obviously trying to get people interested in helping to produce the show right now and putting their money behind it, but I really do feel like it's such an amazing story that hasn't been told and really should be.

We just need to remember Greer and the music is just so exciting. You'll lose your mind at how great these songs are. And we're just gonna have a great time and hope people respond in turn because I think, especially for the trans people we've had in the audiences before to hear music from this, it's always just had a big impact. And we want to keep sharing that with the amazing folks here in New York. So that's the plan.

[35:15] Murphy Taylor Smith: Fantastic. God, I cannot wait. So switching gears a little bit, I would love to know about your collegiate experience, not just because of the little known wrench that was thrown in it called COVID, but also being so sure of who you are and your identity before you got to college. So even like thinking in terms of auditions or pitching yourself to a program. Did you, what was your major? Did you do musical theater as your major?

[35:49] Murphy Taylor Smith: I did do musical theater as my major. So I think, yeah, something just to clarify in this kind of discussion is that I did I auditioned for and went to my college, which was Penn State's musical theater BFA, as you know, identifying as a man, basically. I had gone back in the closet and my sister had come out in the meantime, and so we again we did this kind of back and forth yin and yang moment of like circling each other. And it wasn't until the summer before my senior year that I finally kind of like gathered up the courage to come out again. It's very interesting looking back on it because I was not really planning on going to a BFA. I didn't think that was like in my worldview, I was always kind of like, I'll go to like, you know, Vassar and get a BA in theater and like make weird art, and then I was like in this BFA theater program that like and I definitely think Penn State is under the kind of direction of John Simpkins, who's the head of the program there right now, definitely has an emphasis on weird musical theater.

Like we were, you know, doing our Be More Chills of my freshman year when I got there. But I was not like I guess prepared for that whole world that I entered. And it is very gendered. You know, musical theater BFAs are super gendered places. Absolutely. There's not really I mean I think you know, I think that is starting to change, but the problem is, you know, I think there's the desire to change, but is there like the capacity for that when the whole when the whole genre, when the whole canon is so, you know, specifically gendered? And unless you have a faculty that's really open to changing that, it's hard. It's not like the kind of thing where if you were doing, you know, yeah, like a theater, an acting BFA or any other kind of like arts program or a visual arts program, like obviously you could welcome trans people in easily, but there is this extra level of care that has to go into it when you're doing a performance study like that.

So I definitely think you know, if I was at a more casual, less commercially focused environment, I probably would have come out sooner. Which is not, you know, to me to say like Penn State kept me from coming out. It's like the environment naturally led me to want to value like commercial games and commercial desires. And even then when I did finally come out, it was hard.

[38:15] Murphy Taylor Smith: It was hard. Um, and I especially remember just being in central Pennsylvania, which is where Penn State is. Uh, it's like right in Happy Valley, it's kind of like halfway between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Um, it's a lot of the Amish, you know, it's kind of farm country. Uh, and so I did have a lot of just negative experiences, especially right out of the gate of, you know, being very visibly trans, um, very visibly trans and trying to navigate, you know, I wanted to still be a part of my program. I wanted to still be involved, but it's hard when, like I said, there's just not always the opportunity or experience there to guide to kind of guide everyone through that change. Because it is it's a change for everyone.

That being said, I had wonderful teachers there who I totally leaned on very hard. My voice teacher of course was my, was my, you know, what would you call it? Like everything I leaned on during that last year. Yes. Um, and then COVID hit like right before I was supposed to graduate, um, and threw a whole, a whole nother, I mean what's funny for me about COVID especially, so I was about eight months out of the closet and most trans people will tell you especially people who are like, you know, doing a medical transition kind of or more like a binary transition so to speak like going from presenting as a man to presenting as a woman. Yeah. Um, the first year really just so difficult. It's such a hard time and you really don't, you're it's hard to find your stride until about eight months to a year in so I feel like I was just getting to the point where I was like oh I'm like starting to figure this out like this is I'm gonna be okay and then the entire world closed their doors.

Um, and I was, I was home and it of course it was just this like, uh, I was living at home I was home with my parents um and there was this sense of uh especially you know looking at the landscape of theater like well I better get interested in some other avenues of employment because this is not going to happen. And I think I probably would have, you know, found myself on some a very different path if I hadn't, I was lucky that I got signed during the pandemic with my wonderful team through a YouTube video. So that just goes to show film videos of yourself singing and put them on YouTube because it might just change your life. Um, yeah, does that kind of answer? I feel like uh I don't want to get like too into all of the trauma of it all.

[40:46] Jayke Workman: Oh yeah, of course. Well, I guess I was also I'm just so interested specifically, and you mentioned it, but um your voice teacher because there is this really um I don't want to say pervasive, but there's this huge fascination with like the voice and like you know, when you're on hormones that that change your voice and you're a uh performer who is maybe used to using your instrument in one way, and then all of a sudden it's this new thing that you have to navigate. But I connect to it not not in any you know dramatic way, but I I mean I'm a non-binary person and I'm also a counter tenor, so often these things, you know, that you mentioned where like commercially you are either a really great tenor baritone or you're a soprano woman, and I was giving both, and so having to navigate that with a voice teacher was different than everyone else in my program because they had their one thing that they did very well, and I was like, Well, I have this this voice, this talent that I've had forever, and it's clearly not going away.

Um, but these people are saying you're only gonna work if you have a strong tenor baritone. So let's figure that out. And my wonderful voice teacher was like, oh no, no, no, no. We're not doing that. We're not taking away. If anything, we're just going to sort of like flesh out the rest of your voice. But was that something that you um desired or or needed after you had come out and said, I am a woman, I'm I am going to transition again?

[42:24] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, absolutely. I think, you know, trans uh I think it's so interesting on both ends of this spectrum because I think, yeah, like trans masculine people who are like taking testosterone, their voice really dramatically changes. And I have so many trans masculine friends who, you know, bloomed beautifully in that journey, or like hit the rocks, and it was like really, really hard to find, you know, their voice again after that kind of dramatic change. And um people, you know, uh never really find that again. And it's so it is it's scary. I mean, with trans feminine people when you're on estrogen, obviously your voice doesn't do that dramatic change thing. It's not like sure, you know, I suddenly, you know, yeah, my voice lifted up or anything like that.

So it was so in that case, what's kind of interesting then is that for a lot of transfeminine people there is this big emphasis, especially in like very passing or you know, uh like tr tr very um femme presenting communities of like voice training where you're s you're supposed to like basically design yourself a new voice and especially speaking voice, but of course it also applies to your singing voice. Um, and it can be and then there are also surgeries you can have, you know, that change uh the way you sound. And I think something for me, especially in that first year when I was still at school and working with a voice teacher, is that the material that I was singing, like I found to be very upsetting because I was like, Well, I don't sound like a cis woman singing this song, and I sound like, you know, I uh or uh, you know, you're singing, yeah, like some Disney princess song, and you're like, Well, I'm never gonna sound like uh, you know, this uh oh my gosh, what's her name? Uh wow. Uh Ariel Little Mermaid.

[44:10] Jayke Workman: Oh yes, Judy Benson.

[44:12] Murphy Taylor Smith: Judy Benson. Um, I'm never gonna sound like her. So, like, what do I do? How do I even enter this space? And not only that it's like, of course, upsetting from like uh, oh, how am I gonna like work, but also just it's like it's a dysphoria thing, right? Um, and so one of my biggest, I feel like wins of my like transition, um, as someone who was kind of like wanting felt like this desire, like, well, I have to just lose my voice, I have to like disconnect from my voice, is I feel like I really grew into loving my sound, loving how this differentiates me from other women. Like I have this unusual gift, this this, you know, deep register that I can use like as a tool in my acting, as a tool in my singing, and it can be this like gift as opposed to something that that keeps me, you know, yeah, holds me back.

Um, and I think it's it's so true that like one of the things I get complimented most on in my day-to-day life is you know, I'll be you know, out or at a restaurant or something like that, and people will say to me, like, I love your voice. I love how low your voice is. And so it like becomes this instead of this dysphoria thing, it's like this pride that you have, and like it's something that really marks me as gender, you know, gender non-conforming as a trans woman. It has this baggage that it carries, but I also think it's very uh it has this like draw and this pull in for people that um assists me in my career, doesn't hold me back. And I think that was like a lesson I had to learn over time, and definitely there were, you know, times when I was working with a voice teacher, like trying to find material.

I mean, this is another reason why it's so important to have like trans, you know, women roles that are written exactly in yeah, exactly. It's like when you can then have the material, it's like, oh my gosh, this is life-changing. Um, yeah, so it was a journey, and I still I still find myself, you know, struggling with that, especially when like most of the auditions you get are gonna ask you to sing stuff that like okay, I can do this, but it's not going to sound like how you want it to sound, like that sort of thing.

[46:06] Jayke Workman: Exactly. Um, and that can be so it's just always a dance you're doing of like, well, how would you feel if I sent it to you as you requested, but then also I'm gonna do arrangement on my own that like does it in this different key. And what do you think about this? This is like where it sits most powerfully for me, whatever.

[46:20] Murphy Taylor Smith: Totally. Um, and it's you know, it's a lot of extra work, and that tends to be the way it goes for us. It's like you have to do two times the work, three times the work in order to just be seen. But uh, I do feel like people are more open in general to that these days than they have been even just in 2020, a couple years ago. And that it's like really like uh, you know, the original here or nothing.

[46:40] Jayke Workman: Well, and luckily we have incredible artists like yourself who are doing the work to pave the way for the next generation of you know gender non-conforming trans people. It's so exciting. I cannot wait to see Doll/Girl, and I also cannot wait to see your own show that you're writing with Emerson. Is that your sister's name?

[47:00] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, Emerson.

[47:02] Jayke Workman: Because it just sounds so so fascinating. But Murphy, you are such a treat. Before I let you go, um, I have a series of musical theater rapid fire questions that I ask every guest, but I have a feeling that our version is going to be particularly marvelous. Are you ready?

[47:19] Murphy Taylor Smith: I'm ready.

[47:22] Jayke Workman: Sondheim or Andrew Lloyd Webber?

[47:25] Murphy Taylor Smith: Sondheim all the way.

[47:26] Jayke Workman: Sweatpants or jeans?

[47:30] Murphy Taylor Smith: Jeans. I'm not really a sweatpants girl.

[47:31] Jayke Workman: Do you have a favorite musical?

[47:36] Murphy Taylor Smith: I normally say Sweeney. Um, but I'm also very partial to Dave Malloy, so Octet is my kind of dark horse for this.

[47:42] Jayke Workman: Oh my gosh. She is she's a deep cut. Uh, do you have a least favorite musical?

[47:49] Murphy Taylor Smith: Ooh, least favorite. Uh, I feel like it'd be controversial. Um, do it, say it on the podcast.

[47:57] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um, I honestly have so many that don't really work for me, but I really didn't like uh Me and My Girl.

[48:05] Jayke Workman: That has actually been a few people's answer to that question.

[48:08] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yeah, it's a little rough. She's rough.

[48:10] Jayke Workman: Would you ever like to do a Broadway play?

[48:14] Murphy Taylor Smith: Oh god, yes. Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes.

[48:17] Jayke Workman: Work. Are you a morning person or a night owl?

[48:17] Murphy Taylor Smith: Morning person.

[48:22] Jayke Workman: Golden age or contemporary?

[48:26] Murphy Taylor Smith: I love it all, but um I think I have an affinity for Golden Age because I feel like people don't give it its due for how beautiful that music is.

[48:35] Jayke Workman: Do you have a favorite role that you have ever played?

[48:39] Murphy Taylor Smith: Um, I'd throw Greer up there. I'd throw Greer up there for how where I am right now. I love her and I love playing her.

[48:46] Jayke Workman: Fierce. God, I can't wait to see it. Um, coffee or tea?

[48:51] Murphy Taylor Smith: Coffee.

[48:52] Jayke Workman: Same. What is the hardest show that you have ever done?

[48:57] Murphy Taylor Smith: Ooh, hardest show. Um, when I was when I still identified as a boy, actually literally minute like days before I finally came out. I was doing a school shooter musical where I played the school shooter. And let me tell you, it was hard. I did not, I was, I usually say it drove me from being a boy because I just couldn't, I couldn't do it anymore.

[49:19] Jayke Workman: Uh yeah. Do you have a favorite costume you've ever worn?

[49:26] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, in Transparent, I wore this beautiful blue, like uh period suit dress thing that they built on me. Uh, it was like the most luxurious, like satiny material, and I just could I wanted to steal it so badly, but it was expensive, so I couldn't sell it.

[49:41] Jayke Workman: Oh damn it. Beautiful.

[49:43] Murphy Taylor Smith: It's on my website. Go check it out.

[49:45] Jayke Workman: Beautiful. Well, my last question for you, my dear, is a question that I ask every guest. But what is one thing that you would tell baby Murphy?

[49:50] Murphy Taylor Smith: Transition.

[49:58] Jayke Workman: Transition!

[50:00] Murphy Taylor Smith: Transition!

[50:00] Jayke Workman: There it is.

[50:01] Murphy Taylor Smith: Oh, very good.

[50:02] Jayke Workman: Oh, very good.

[50:05] Murphy Taylor Smith: Transition, bitch. Get on it.

[50:10] Jayke Workman: Well, wasting time. Murphy, thank you so so much for being on the podcast. I cannot wait to come and see your brilliant show at Joe's Pub on April 15th. Would you tell the listeners where they can find you on socials to keep up with all of your shenanigans?

[50:25] Murphy Taylor Smith: Yes, I am MS Murphy Smith, Miss Murphy Smith on Instagram, and my website's just Murphy Taylor Smith, so go check it out.

[50:32] Jayke Workman: Yes, Murphy Taylor Smith. Thank you so so much for being here. You are such a delight.

[50:36] Murphy Taylor Smith: Thank you for having me.

[50:39] Jayke Workman: You guys, that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod, and you can follow the show on Instagram at oh my pod, you guys. Thanks so much for listening. Talk soon. Bye.

[50:53] Jayke Workman: Oh my god. Oh my god, you guys.