This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jayke Workman: Did I watch a compilation of the best alphabas on Broadway singing "Defying Gravity" until 1am last night? I mean, not no.

[0:14] Jayke Workman: Oh my god, did you hear? Did you hear? Did you hear my god, guys? Take that hot.

[0:26] Jayke Workman: Oh my god, oh my god, you guys! What is up, everybody? My name is Jayke Workman, and this is Oh My Pod, you guys, a musical theater and pop culture podcast.

[0:26] Jayke Workman: You guys, what is the tea? Are we all just absolutely obsessed with Cowboy Carter?

[0:42] Jayke Workman: I have not listened to anything other than this Beyoncé album since it dropped on March 29th. Um, it is a masterpiece.

[0:52] Jayke Workman: Everybody who knows me knows that I am absolutely obsessed with Beyoncé, but this is like what what's the term that everyone's like Magnum opus. I don't know what that even really means, but it okay. I agree. I think it's absolutely unreal. I love you, Behold C.

[1:10] Jayke Workman: Anyway, you guys, I have such an amazing interview with David Korins for you to listen to. But before we do that, we of course must dive right into this week's Broadway World recap, brought to you by my amazing pals at Broadwayworld.com.

[1:25] Jayke Workman: First, you guys, we got a very exciting announcement that none other than Rob Madge of My Son's a Queer has written a new show about their experience with the Broadway postponement of their play. It's called Regards to Broadway, which is just fucking hilarious.

[1:43] Jayke Workman: I love Rob Madge so, so much. And it is gonna play two performances at the Garrick Theatre in London on May 26th. I wish so badly I could get to London and see this because you just know. I mean, Rob's level of comedy and genius is just unmatched.

[2:02] Jayke Workman: It's so clever and quick and just so intrinsically British. It's the best, and who better to take something sour and turn it sweet with comedy than Rob. So shout out hello, my darling dear Rob Madge. Wishing you all of the best for these performances of your new show.

[2:24] Jayke Workman: Next, you guys, Broadway World shared a very exciting casting announcement. We got word that Rachel Zegler and Kit Connor are going to star in Romeo and Juliet on Broadway.

[2:36] Jayke Workman: This is obviously not the first revival of Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare that has been done on Broadway. However, this production is going to be directed by Sam Gold, and it will feature music by Grammy Award winner Jack Antonoff and movement by Tony Award winner Sonia Taya.

[2:53] Jayke Workman: And you guys, this team is stacked, obviously, but these two performers are so brilliant. Their acting is so stunning. You probably know Kit Connor from his beautiful acting on Heartstopper on Netflix, which broke my little gay heart into pieces and then bandaged it right back up again.

[3:15] Jayke Workman: And you also probably know Rachel Zegler from her incredible portrayal of Maria in Steven Spielberg's West Side Story. It's just gonna be so beautiful. I mean, she's already had experience basically doing Romeo and Juliet, and now she gets to do it the Shakespeare way. I'm so excited about this.

[3:32] Jayke Workman: Performances are set to begin this fall at a Broadway theatre to be announced. So I will be keeping you updated with all things R and J on Broadway.

[3:43] Jayke Workman: Next, you guys, in another very exciting casting announcement, we got word that Maya Boyd is going to take on the role of Juliet in and Juliet on Broadway, taking over for the Tony Award-nominated Lorna Courtney.

[3:57] Jayke Workman: Miss Boyd actually made her Broadway debut in the revival of Merrily We Roll Along earlier this year, while simultaneously completing her senior year at the University of Michigan, which is just insane. But she's gonna take a break from rehearsals to return to Ann Arbor, Michigan, and graduate from college, and then Mama is starring on Broadway.

[4:17] Jayke Workman: So you have until May 12th of 2024 to catch Lorna Courtney in the role of Juliet before Maya Boyd takes over. And I'm just so excited for her. This is gonna be amazing.

[4:27] Jayke Workman: And lastly, you guys, we have to talk about the crazy number of reviews that have been pouring in for The Wiz, Lempica, and Suffs on Broadway. You guys, everybody needs to chill. Like, I started this podcast as a way to talk about theater, obviously. But like, what are we doing?

[4:46] Jayke Workman: It like what are critics and reviewers doing? It's such a mixed bag. It's completely opinion-based. How could it not be? But why are we like even in just like deconstructing, you know, the elements of a musical and what makes something good and enjoyable or successful? Like, why do we have to use such horrible rhetoric to talk about it?

[5:36] Jayke Workman: I mean, it's different coming from a national tour first and then having a run on Broadway. That's just undeniable. So I kind of don't know what these reviewers like want us to think or want us to say when we could have seen it on the road before it came to Broadway.

[5:36] Jayke Workman: I mean, it's different coming from a national tour first and then having a run on Broadway. That's just undeniable. So I kind of don't know what these reviewers like want us to think or want us to say when we could have seen it on the road before it came to Broadway.

[5:53] Jayke Workman: Like, are you trying to sway us to not buy the tickets? I'm just confused. Like, we can talk about like what we liked and what we didn't like without it being just absolutely tearing down a show. I can't wait to see it. I've heard incredible things about all of the performances.

[6:09] Jayke Workman: And you guys, I think something that was done so brilliantly was the social media person for Lempica took one snippet from a great review and one snippet from a tiny one and said, true art sparks debate. And I'm like, you know what? You better work.

[6:25] Jayke Workman: Tomorrow Day Lempica would have loved that because say what you want, say what you will. Something's cooking at the Spitfire Grill. I don't know what I don't know. But anyway, all this is to say, I think reviewers need to calm down. And you guys, this has been the BroadwayWorld Recap.

[6:45] Jayke Workman: Oh my pod, you guys. I am so, so excited to welcome my next guest to the show. He is a three-time Tony-nominated designer of the Broadway stage as well as TV and film, most recently having his work shown so beautifully in the Broadway revival of The Who's Tommy. Please welcome David Korins.

[7:08] David Korins: Hey, hey, hey. Wait, that was great. You when you did the Oh My Pod, I broke into great laughter. It's great to talk to you.

[7:21] Jayke Workman: I'm so glad you're here. I have so much to ask you about, and I've seen so much of your work in person and it's just extraordinary. But before we get into all of that goodness, would you tell the listeners where are you calling in from?

[7:35] David Korins: I'm calling in from my living room in New York City.

[7:38] Jayke Workman: New York City, baby. How long have you been in New York?

[7:42] David Korins: Um, I moved to New York in 1999.

[7:47] Jayke Workman: Wow. Amazing. So I guess that means this is my 25th year.

[7:50] David Korins: So you're kind of like a gold star New Yorker at this screw the 10 year rule.

[7:55] Jayke Workman: I mean, is that what it became? Is that what it is? Gold Star?

[7:58] David Korins: Well, don't they always say like, oh, like you're not a true New Yorker until you've been here for 10 years or something like that?

[8:03] Jayke Workman: Double, I'm double up on that.

[8:06] David Korins: Okay, great. Now yes, I'm a gold star New Yorker.

[8:11] Jayke Workman: Yes, we love to see it. Well, okay, so diving right in. I mean, we could talk about all of the incredible shows that you have had a hand in creating, but I would we would be here for hours because you have done over 20 shows on Broadway.

[8:27] Jayke Workman: But I would love to ask about your current running show, The Who's Tommy, and how you first, you know, take on something huge. Because I feel like for listeners, you know, I've had lots of different artists and creatives, you know, on the podcast who I've gotten to learn so much from, but I have not yet had a scenic designer or a creative director on the podcast.

[8:55] Jayke Workman: So I'm really excited to hear, you know, sort of your side of even just like it being initially offered a project. Like, where does your mind first go when you think of a show like The Who's Tommy?

[9:10] David Korins: Well, so first of all, when I was offered the job, I didn't know Des McAnuff. He called me up and asked if I wanted to have a meeting, and I was super intrigued and really excited. I've been a fan of his for a long time. Um, he's been one of these directors that's been like at the top of the game for like 40 years, right?

[9:32] David Korins: So I marched over to his office. This is like five and a half years ago, and we sat down and he said, "How do you feel about doing a revival of Tommy?" And I was blown away. First of all, I felt like I had like this secret, like, oh my god, they're doing a revival of Tommy, you know. And then, and then I was like, oh God. And I get to work on it.

[9:52] David Korins: And, you know, Tommy is one of these projects that is kind of revered as one of the most visually stunning and game-changing productions of all time, the original, right? And so it was like, oh my god, yes, I want to do that. And then I was kind of panicked, like, how do you try and be in dialogue with the original and learn what worked of the original, but then try and do your own version of it?

[10:23] David Korins: Now, I didn't see the original, which I actually think ultimately helped me in trying to like come to the table with new ideas because I didn't have the old thing stuck in my head. Sure. But originally I was like kind of honored and humbled and terrified. Um, but I have to say, Des was really kind of open to throwing everything that he knew about the visual world of the show away and really trusted that I could help him conceive of something new and electric and exciting and kick ass.

[10:55] David Korins: And we talked early on about the idea for visuals and the need for projection design, and instantly we came to Peter Negrini, who is a longtime frequent collaborator of both mine and Des's, and we thought he would be a really great addition to that team.

[11:14] David Korins: And Peter and I really created the visual world of this thing in lockstep. I am it it's you know, theater is a collaborative art form. Um, it's not this kind of thing where you can just toil away and paint on your easel or something in your living room and then show it to the world. It's made by a community of artists and collaboration.

[11:38] David Korins: And what I love about our production is that so many times during the show, you do not know where one design discipline or one creative discipline ends and where the next one begins. It's a super, super, super cohesive, really kind of fire-powered filled evening of visuals and like the choreo between the choreography and the automation and the projections and the scenery and the lighting and the costume and all that, it really is like super granularly put together as a totally cohesive team. I'm really proud of that.

[12:14] Jayke Workman: That's so exciting. I'm so beyond excited to see it. I have multiple friends in this show, and I cannot wait to get down to the Nederlander and see it.

[12:22] David Korins: Oh, you haven't seen it yet?

[12:23] Jayke Workman: I haven't seen it.

[12:24] David Korins: It's the one showing. Oh my god, it's a little bit of a big I know, I can't wait. So, so in talking about sort of the intersectionality of all of the different departments, you know, to create this one like massive thing. When you when you initially think of designing a show, do you uh are you able to separate the scenic design from lights, automation, sounds, projection? Like how do you imagine a world? Because you are you're essentially taking us into the world before anything else is happening. You know, music is playing at the same time, but how do you how do you um you know separate those things and be like, well, this is my lane, I'll stay in my lane over here.

[13:07] David Korins: Sure. Um, it happens on a lot of different tracks um all at once. So the first thing that I do is I make what I call a scene breakdown. And a scene breakdown takes like, you know, every single scene that happens at the show, who's in it, what's happening, what is the least amount needed to render that location. Right. So I try and distill it down to what is the bare minimum that we need. So um that way I can kind of like put in my tackle box or on my paint palette, if you will, everything that I know that I'm gonna eventually need. Because if we need a couch in one scene and we need a bed in another scene and a window in another scene, by the end of this scene breakdown, I'll have all of the things that I know I need to do over on stage.

Um at the same time, we do a ton of research, right? So Tommy takes place in at the same time, very specific locations like World War II, London. Yes, right, very specific places. Um 22 Heathfield, you can actually go and look up what that location looks like. What does the home look like? Um But it also takes place in these wildly abstract places, like inside Tommy's mind, right? Like, so what does that look like? Uh-huh. And and and so I put together a huge vision board. On the one hand, there's a very, very practical, tactical, like, this is what we need to deliver the scene. And on the other hand, here's wild imagery. There's like super abstract, just like metaphorical imagery. And then there's actually here's the couch, here's the bed, this is what I think it would look like in 1943.

This would like to look like in 1947, right? That kind of thing. And you start to then conceive of what you want the audience to feel when they see this thing. Because the great thing about theater is you're kind of like you get to work in metaphor. So as opposed to um actual architecture or actual, you know, some oftentimes in film, you're trying to render a real location. In the theater, you're almost never doing a real location, even if it's meant to be realism. It's always a version of metaphor.

[15:08] David Korins: So Tommy, um, we really looked at a lot of visual artists. One of them was Mondrian. Um, I I was kind of struck by this idea of what would it be like if we put the design inside of almost like an ever-changing, ever-shifting, three-dimensionalized, lit from within, glowing version of Mondrian. Wow. So that the irises and the apertures and the and the entire space could move and breathe and change with the emotional barometer of the show. And Des loved that. Um, Peter loved that. Lauren, our choreographer loved that. Um, we all love that, and that's what we make. And that's that's what you are all gonna love when you go and see the show.

[15:52] Jayke Workman: Wow, it that it's just so fascinating to to hear, you know, sort of the process because when you look at a show, I mean, switching gears a little bit, we can, you know, talk about uh some of your other incredible works, but when you think of a show like Hamilton, which has become a staple in the musical theater lexicon, you can look at a picture of that set and without in in one second you know exactly what show that is. So in the difference between doing something that has already had an iteration done that people know and love, and then you know, you fully creating this look and feel and world for a show. Is there is there a a difference in the way you um approach it? I guess like maybe from even like a a longevity perspective, or like this show has the potential to tour. So how do we make a set that could break down?

[16:53] David Korins: Um you know, uh I I really feel um very blessed. Um I always feel mixed when I say that word, but I feel very, very blessed to be able to do um what I do, and part of what I get to do every day is I sort of help um playwrights and composers and directors um midwife their babies into the world. Right? Right, you are the theater doula, and and so yeah, and so I I feel like you have a massive responsibility with that. Um you know, designers are this kind of bridge group of people where we are not writing the piece, but we are helping to conceive of and then oftentimes co-direct the conception of the visual world. And you know, Hamilton looks very, very different than Beetlejuice and very different than Dear Evan Hansen or Here Lies Love or Tommy, because it has to look different because it's a completely different story.

And so, you know, I felt a massive responsibility to Lynn Manuel Miranda because he trusted me with his baby. Yeah. And um and so I'm gonna work tirelessly to make sure that first our little joyous family, the creative team, all agrees, and that we all think that it is the right and proper and appropriate um and most dynamic way to tell the story, the story first. And then if it happens to be like technological bells and whistles, or if it happens to be really cool, or if it happens to be eye-catching or whatever, or iconic, God bless. But it's all about that story. It's all about the story. And so I don't actually address a revival any differently than the original because I still have to look in Pete Townsend's eyes and Des Makinoff's eyes as the co-book writers and the composer and say, I helped you deliver your baby into the world and I didn't drop it.

[19:09] Jayke Workman: Wow, that's so cool. So then, in thinking of a show uh like Hamilton or like Beetlejuice, I would love to know, and you know, without getting into like the actual specifics for those shows, but um, is there a a level of uh consideration that you have to maintain in terms of like budget and scope? Like when you when you throw everything at the wall and and you know see what sticks, do you have to be thinking, okay, but how do we afford it? Or is that just like not on your not in your mind?

[19:41] David Korins: Yeah, yeah. Um well it's funny, uh, you know, when I described the early process of designing, and I thought about like, well, there's the the the very specific technical portion of it where and then there's also the wildly abstract and artistic portion of it. The finance question is the same. On the one hand, there's a budget, of course. No one's ever said, and you've got a blank check, go. Um in fact, I was on the set of Hamilton two days ago, and I was on the Broadway set of Hamilton two days ago. I brought my uh assistant who had actually never walked on the set of it, so I I took him there to to check it out. Um I was telling him about how the set of the Broadway production of Hamilton is actually the off-Broadway set with uh uh essentially a level added to it, and that catwalk is like the totally crappy, you know, like held together with contact lenses and dental floss version from the public before we knew we were a hit.

Right. And so, like, you know, the the the other productions of Hamilton are much much fancier and better made, but the Broadway production is the off Broadway production with like you know, on stilts. And so wow and and so you know, you you I've never been told, hey, you've got a blank slate, go design whatever you want. So on the one hand, I'm very budget conscious because ideas are a dime a dozen, the execution of them is everything, and I'm never gonna just, you know, wildly wave my hand and cost the producer money because if the if it costs too much, the show won't last.

[21:09] David Korins: Right. But on the other hand, parallel path, I like to try and design the show with an infinite budget in my mind when I start, and I just think blue sky, what would this thing be if if there was zero parameters? You know, what's the big huge idea that actually tells the story the perfect way? And then you learn how to crystallize that and distill it down into like something that's actually manageable, feasible to be built. I now happen to have been doing this thing for almost 30 years, so I have a really good sense that even when I'm dreaming big, I know exactly what that thing's gonna cost. Or I you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty darn close, and I can get to like a variance of like a five or ten thousand dollars for every piece of scenery on stage.

Wow. So I'm now I have the experience now where even as I'm dreaming, I'm kind of like running through an element list of my mind, but um, no, I like to parallel path it. I'm like dreaming big, and then I'm also like pinching my pantings at the same time.

[22:02] Jayke Workman: Ha ha, yes, I love that. Parallel paths.

[22:06] David Korins: So then when it comes to having multiple productions of your same design, for example, in the world of Hamilton, where you have, you know, the resident company in Chicago, the Broadway company, you have multiple national tours, you've it's a global scope. Are there ever instances where you're like, oh man, I I didn't realize this was gonna go this far. I wish I would have changed this, I would I wish I would have changed that. Like, do you do you find yourself like tinkering with things after the fact, or do you sort of just have to like let it be what it is?

[22:45] David Korins: It's interesting, you know. You know, I the set design takes mostly um it's it's usually the most expensive single element of the entire production. Right. Um, and we, unlike the lighting designer who's toiling away in front of everyone, you know, in the theater, like writing light cues one by one in tech rehearsal. We are um oftentimes toiling away for months and months and months, in some cases years um ahead of time. And so, yes, the short answer is yes. When I look at these designs, I I think to myself, ugh, you know, it's interesting, that wall turns that way, and I always thought maybe it could turn the other way or whatever it is. But I but again, I see it as a as an end product of hundreds of thousands of decisions that are made.

Um, you know, on the way to this kind of community art project, right? And so the reason why that wall turns the other way is probably because, you know, the choreographer needed it for an entrance, or the lighting designer needed it because they needed a good shot, or because for whatever reason, right? And so I tend to see it as a group effort, kind of all in service of um the general goal, which is to give the best presentation of the of the show possible. The set design is not the star of the show. The set design is working in service of the star of the show, which is the script and the performances. And you better believe if like your actor can't make an entrance or your lighting designer can't make the shot, you're cutting that wall back.

So that's that's just what's gonna happen. Um and if you're the kind of designer that's like, no, no, no, the wall must be there, you're probably not long for this career. Um, because it's a series of compromises and it's a series of negotiations. Um, and so, you know, I I I look at those designs and I think, right, that's how this show needed to be. There's this other thing, and I think Picasso said it, you know, uh you never really finish a painting. You just put down your paintbrush, right? You decide that it's done in that moment. And when I look at these designs, I think like they're all pretty good versions.

[24:50] David Korins: And then we were told we had to put our paintbrushes down.

[24:52] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[24:52] David Korins: Would we have kept working? Absolutely. But like at some point the audience shows up and then you open, you know, and then it's over.

[24:59] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[25:00] David Korins: That's just wild. So in talking about, you know, collaborating with the other creatives on a show, but specifically pertaining to a show like Here Lies Love, I would love to know like how closely do you have to work with the dance department and the world of choreography when you are creating something where there are so many set pieces that have dancers riding on them, you have the audience moving in and around the set pieces. Like, what is that like in terms of engineering a set?

[25:38] David Korins: Yeah, so with every show I do, we work with the director and the choreographer, and we storyboard every single scene and also every single transition between scenes. So this is setup A, this is setup B, and what happens to get you from A to B, what the timing is of the scenery moving, what the actors are doing, what the dancers are doing, whatever's happening. We're intrinsically involved and oftentimes leading the conversation between those things.

[26:09] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[26:09] David Korins: So super, super, super involved. With something like Here Lies Love, we had the advantage of doing a workshop, you know, now what, 13 years ago, at Mass Mocha, then we had a production at the public theater, then we had another one in London, then we had another one in Seattle. And so we were standing on the shoulders of every one of these productions, and so we knew a lot about how we wanted it to work, but that show is by far the most complicated and complex show that I've ever worked on, not to mention the most ambitious one, because we built an entire structure inside the theater, took out all the seats of the orchestra pit.

[26:46] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[26:46] David Korins: And we also and that structure included not just 315 people standing up inside of it, 200 and something people sitting on top of the structure, but another 500 people looking into the structure, and then, as you said, all of the scenery actually moving with people on it and audience members around it. So that actually was five other layers of complication because we had to file officially file permits for every single floor plan used in that show with the city of New York because they essentially became fire egresses and life safety and wow. I mean, it was unbelievably complicated. We probably spent, you know, 5,000 hours just talking to architects and engineers alone, let alone designing the show.

[27:37] Jayke Workman: No, no, no.

[27:38] David Korins: It was, you know, it took over a decade to put that thing together. There were thousands of feet of lighting built into the set, hundreds of seated projection, hundreds of feet of projection materials, sixty thousand pounds of steel. That set was, you know, by far the most complicated set I've ever seen on Broadway, let alone designed.

[28:03] Jayke Workman: Well, I just have to say, I mean, having the opportunity to be in the floor seating of it all and get to experience the immersive nature of the piece, it just it was unlike anything I have ever experienced in the theater. And I mean, you know, I can speak for all of us when I say that we're so grateful that you guys took the time and energy to bring this show to Broadway because it was absolutely incredible.

[28:32] David Korins: Well, thank you. I mean, listen, that not only did that show allow us, you know, some people have brought audience members on stage before. That's not that rare. It has happened from time to time. What has never happened before is that you had audience members standing on stage and in the orchestra and moving around between and betwixt during the show. And so that view that you got when you were standing there looking back at the balcony was something that like you just get it never get a chance to see ever unless you're performing in a show.

[29:03] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[29:03] David Korins: But the other thing that that show accomplished was, on a more personal level, you know, it was the first all-Filipino cast in the history of Broadway. It was, I think, a really interesting cautionary tale about how close we get to, you know, the fragility of democracy.

[29:25] Jayke Workman: Right.

[29:25] David Korins: And in an election year, those stories and amplifying those stories are so important. Now, it wasn't a commercial success, but for so many reasons that show was an extraordinary runaway hit.

[29:42] Jayke Workman: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think you touch on it so beautifully, but I would love to know your thoughts on what it means to be a commercial success, because I mean we could talk about it, you know, ad nauseum, but it's like when you are the designer of a show you must have the pressure of hoping and feeling like this has to be a commercial success. I mean for me as an actor I don't feel that type of pressure. I, you know, I show up and I do the work that I can do but at the end of the day if it comes to an end, it comes to an end and I do the next thing but do you feel that type of pressure when you are sort of creating a world for a new musical?

[30:29] David Korins: Sure. I mean it's very, very, very much on my mind that anyone that I work with who would listen to this podcast is gonna laugh and grin because I'm kind of obsessed with it. You know, you said a word, you said two words in that question that I think we have to explore what each of those words are. You said commercial and you said success, right? And so what is a success is totally up for definition, right? Or up for discussion. I thought Here Lies Love finding a producing team that was so intrepid and audacious and ballsy enough to take that show without watering it down and saying hey, we know that you had this concept where you're gonna have the actors inside the, you know, the blurring the lines between the performer and the audience and you're gonna have people sitting in it and standing in it.

We want to just cut it down and make it a proscenium show. Our producers are like, no, we're gonna take your concept, Alex Timbers, David Byrne, David Korins, the whole rest of the creative team, and we're gonna pour gasoline on it, and we're gonna have the guts to put it on Broadway in twenty twenty four after a pandemic, and let's go. That to me, and we're gonna do the first all Filipino cast, like let's hit it. Hell yeah, that was a success, right? I think they probably lost most of their money, right? So, as a commercial endeavor, probably wasn't a good business plan. But to me, those producers know what they were doing, they had their eyes open, and that was a massive success.

[32:10] David Korins: I think commercially, I think about this all the time because Broadway is not synonymous with theater.

[32:18] Jayke Workman: Right.

[32:19] David Korins: And, you know, commercial success is not synonymous with success. A commercial success, I think the definition is probably like does it recoup and then does it make money and is it a hit? There are many shows that are successful that aren't turning a profit every week, right? And we could talk on a whole other podcast about the reasons why, the marketing campaigns, the fact that, you know, Times Square is empty and there aren't, you know, people going to work anymore, and tourism's down, and all the bzillions of reasons, but like the success rate on Broadway is higher than the commercial success rate.

[32:58] Jayke Workman: Totally.

[32:58] David Korins: And I don't think that most people, the tourists who go to see Broadway shows have any clue of what it means to even be a producer on a show and have it recoup. I mean, like it's not like a ticket price is a ticket price, and that's the only thing that the consumer is concerned with, truly, before they step into the theater.

[33:20] Jayke Workman: Correct.

[33:20] David Korins: I mean, yeah, I mean, again, we can get into the weeds of this, but the truth is, when I moved to New York, you know, the million dollar club, when you look at the grosses every week, the million dollar club was like if you were in the million dollar club, people were getting rich off that, right? Now, if you're in the million dollar club, your show has a chance of surviving. You know, the metrics of financial success and what it costs to actually keep a show open are so skewed that, you know, there are very few Broadway shows, you know, you can count them on one hand, it may be on two fingers that have an operating budget of like less than $700,000 a week, right? So if you're seeing a million dollars and your show costs a million dollars a week to run, you're gonna close.

[34:06] Jayke Workman: Yep.

[34:07] David Korins: You know, so that's very and that's real. And you know, people get caught up in like, oh, but it's so good. And the truth is they forget that you have to sell, you know, eight or nine thousand tickets a week.

[34:19] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[34:21] David Korins: Just to keep the lights on.

[34:23] Jayke Workman: Yeah, just to keep doing it.

[34:26] David Korins: And yet here we are. It is it's the dream, it's the thing that we keep coming back to.

[34:33] Jayke Workman: It's the most rewarding thing we could do.

[34:36] David Korins: 100%.

[34:38] David Korins: 100%. It's one of the most rewarding things you can do, and also the parameters in which we do it are incredibly challenging.

[34:49] Jayke Workman: Extremely.

[34:50] David Korins: So switching gears a little bit, I mean, I have to ask about your Emmy Award winning work on Grease Live and your work in the world of TV and film. How do you take on the challenge of designing something that has to be kind of sort of mobile from what I've gathered in like a sound stage?

[35:16] David Korins: Yeah, so I really think that doing things like Grease Live and the Oscars and Hamilton are kind of double-edged sword projects because people are like, oh, you're the Hamilton set designer, and they don't realize that like 75% of my business has nothing to do with theater, film, and TV, right? I do experiential work and hospitality and tons of other stuff. Right. But like, so to me, I'm actually really picky on the kinds of things that I do, especially in the film and TV world, because the method of storytelling is very different.

[35:56] David Korins: And the level of filtration between what is a production design in the real space, but once it's seen through the lens of a camera and a director, and then it's all edited together, is a very different story, right? If you're sitting at Here Lies Love, even if you tried to, you couldn't not see the set, right? And so I try and take on projects that kind of only I can do, or what is my particular take on it? And so the thing about Grease Live that I absolutely loved, and I still, and for anyone that worked on Grease Live, you know, cast included, creative team included, they counted as like one of the best, if not the single best experience of their lives in the creative world.

[36:41] David Korins: And I consider it right there. Tommy Cale, the director of Hamilton came to me. It was right after we opened Hamilton and said, Hey, we should do this thing. And when we talked about Grease Live, the thing that we agreed to that was really our guiding principle was could we do the thing that we love best about theater? That theater does better than any other medium.

[37:07] David Korins: Ah, Vista Scene Changes, right? Where right before your eyes, there's a wall there and it breaks open and you go into another location or it flies away or it flips around or turntables or any of those things that we see all the time in the theater, where it unfolds in front of your eyes.

[37:23] David Korins: Could we take all that stuff and mix it with what film and TV does better than anything that you could never do in theater, right? So in the theater, we always talk about wouldn't it be so great if we could rip off the back wall of the theater and we could go 300 miles away or right go outside into Times Square or whatever that is. Um, and we can do that in film, right? And so we mixed that in Grease Live, where they were inside the sound stage and out of the sound stage, they were in golf carts at the end, they would like opened up the stage door and they went out into a fully formed carnival, and we and then we did all these theatrical tricks in camera, and to me, that was like how could we change the game on the medium of like adding theatricality to this television model and make it live?

And that was the most fun experience because in a way, I worked my whole life in the theater and film and TV to kind of infuse to fuse them all together into one thing. And it was so cool, and the actors were so game, and the audience was so into it. And then, of course, there was the the film, you know, the the the TV audience, which, as Tommy reminded me on January 31st of that year, when it aired, that more people would see Grease Live in one day than would see Hamilton in seven years. That's right. And then you realized that the reach the reach of television is so different, right? I love the the like Venn diagram of TV film and theater, and I'm excited. I mean, obviously, with with your work on Hamilton and how that was so beautifully recorded.

Um, I love that more people are getting the opportunity to experience theater in their own home because I think it only invites and encourages people who may not have considered themselves theater people to you know expose themselves to something new and to learn about the world of theater. So could you could you tell me about your road to the world of musical theater and the arts? Like what led you to this career?

[39:35] David Korins: So um uh I grew up um a m uh a musician and um an athlete, and I um, you know, when you're a musician and you're coming up in school, you oftentimes find yourself in like the core the chorus or the choir. Um, you know, we had a Christmas play and a spring musical, and I auditioned, you know, and so I was in those things. Um, and then I had a kind of a bad audition experience my senior year in high school where I really wanted a part and I didn't get the part, but I was still casting the show, and I helped the math teacher build the scenery. And I kind of began to understand that like there's actually a huge amount of storytelling and a very, very needed um part of the process that I wasn't even to that point aware of.

So when I went to college, I took a course called Beginning Techniques and Design, which told you a little bit about lighting and scenery and sound and costumes, and I got the um great opportunity to assist the the grad students and the professors on some shows, and ultimately they helped me apply for an internship at William Sound Theater Festival where I was an intern in 1997, and I met some dear friends and collaborators, but also I was under I understood very quickly what it took to kind of build and put together a regional theater-sized show, like a pretty big show. And I also understood the muscle memory of what it took to build one of those things every single week for 12 weeks. Yeah.

And so I was able to kind of supersize my learning process over a very short amount of time, and I went back there many, many years in a row, rising up from intern to an assistant designer to an associate designer, getting design opportunities and a vision and eventually running the design department. And so that I kind of found my tribe early, and I found the people who I looked up to early, and I assisted them, and I created a whole community of people that I could both create with and learn with, but also learn from.

[42:00] David Korins: Coming designers looking at your work being like, that's what I want to do when I grow up, which must just feel amazing. You know, it's it's really um when I was growing up, I know I'm dating myself here. There was no, you know, the internet wasn't really a thing when I was a young kid. And if you wanted to meet someone who did what I do, you either had to wait at the stage door or write them a letter. Right. Um, and now we've got you know, social media and a million other ways to attach to people all over the world. Um, so I can't believe how many people are aware of what I do every day, let alone what I kind of you know put out into the world. And the um amount of people that I correspond with every day from all parts of the world is really really extraordinary. Yeah. Um, and I think about the me's uh, you know, the the me's of the next generation and the access that they have. Um, and uh I try and write back to every one of them.

[43:10] Jayke Workman: I love that. Well, David, you are such a delight. Before I let you go, I have a series of musical theater rapid fire questions that I ask all of my guests. Are you ready?

[43:21] David Korins: Okay.

[43:30] Jayke Workman: Sondheim or Andrew Lloyd Weber?

[43:34] David Korins: Well, they share the same birthday. Can I say both?

[43:37] Jayke Workman: All right, fine, fine. You can say both.

[43:40] David Korins: You know, I'll tell a story, I'll tell you a story. I'll tell you a story about Sondheim and I was privileged enough to work on a project that wound up not happening, but it included both Sondheim and Andrew Ludweber. And um Sondheim said to me, This has happened in one day, by the way. I had a meeting with one and then I had a meeting with the other separately. And Sondheim said to me, Oh my god, the commercial success that Andrew has had is absolutely unbelievable. I would really love, you know, I would really love that paycheck. And in the same day, Andrew Lloyd Webber said to me, you know, um, those reviews that Sondheim got, I really love those reviews. You know? And and um uh nobody's perfect. And yet everybody, and yet everybody and yet everyone would wish that they could have what both Sondheim and Andrew Lloyd Weber have had.

[44:44] Jayke Workman: Um sweatpants or jeans?

[44:49] David Korins: Oh, let's do jeans.

[44:52] Jayke Workman: Oh, let's do jeans. Do you have a favorite musical?

[44:58] David Korins: Um yes, but I'm not gonna say it on on this. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make news with that on this podcast.

[45:05] Jayke Workman: Oh, then you are going to absolutely love my next question, which is do you have a least favorite musical?

[45:12] David Korins: Same questi. Same answer. Wait, wait. Has anyone ever answered these questions and technically not answered any of these questions? These are very I feel like you know, Donald Trump on the stand. I'm getting the fifth.

[45:23] Jayke Workman: You are very good at evading these questions.

[45:28] David Korins: Um, are you a morning person or a night owl?

[45:34] David Korins: Oh, you know, I'm sort of both, but I tend to be a morning person.

[45:39] Jayke Workman: Interesting. Could you think of the craziest thing a director has ever asked you to do?

[45:40] David Korins: The craziest thing a director's ever asked me to do? Yes, indeed. Um, wow. Uh jeez. Holy cow. Um.

[46:03] David Korins: I mean, it's funny. All of the things that are coming to my mind have nothing to do with the fact that they're directors and that we were making a project together and have everything to do with, you know, uh like being out of town with them, or, you know, um, I have found myself in some pretty crazy places with some pretty intense directors. Um, yeah. I I I I don't I don't know.

[46:32] Jayke Workman: Um, I don't know. Well, my last question for you is a question that I ask every guest, which is what is one thing that you would tell baby David?

[46:47] David Korins: Wow. Um, when I was a kid, people would ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I would say, um, uh, well, first I said I wanted to be a professional basketball player, but that didn't work out so well. Um I I would always say, I don't really know, but I I but but I'm gonna be really good at it. You know, that was sort of my answer, which was kind of like cocky and sassy. Um, you know, I I think that I would tell that kid, um, you know, you did it, you are pretty good at it, but you're not, but but like you're not you're better at the things that you're not quite sure that you're good at than the things that you think you might be good at. And and um, you know, I I I'm definitely uh not even in the top 20 designers that I know.

Um I think the thing that I have that I do that is well that that is you know good um or that I do well is different than that. And it it's it's why I think I am successful in this industry is because I'm actually a really good collaborator. Um and as we've been talking about you know this whole time, what we do is we take everyone's ideas and we create a safe space, and we kind of yes and those ideas, and we like we kind of build on that and we tell a story together, and I'm really good at that. I happen to be doing it through the design medium, but I I'm I I'm really proud of the way in which I could show up to collaboration.

[48:30] Jayke Workman: Wow, I love that. Well, David, thank you so so much for coming on the pod. Can you tell the listeners where they can find you on socials and keep up with all of your amazing projects?

[48:44] David Korins: Um, I'm at David Korins, um D-A-V-I-D-K-O-R-I-N S on all platforms. And I um I uh I really appreciate you having me on, and it's it's really fun to talk to you.

[48:58] Jayke Workman: Thank you, love. It is so fun to talk to you. This has been an absolute pleasure.

[49:04] Jayke Workman: Well, you guys, the time has come to say that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Thank you so, so much for listening. Please rate, review, and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod. It really helps the algorithms and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And uh you can follow the show on Instagram at omypod you guys. Thank you so much for listening. I'll talk to you soon. Bye! Oh my god, oh mypod you guys!