This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brian Sedita: Hey everyone, welcome to Page to Stage. A conversation with theater makers. We're your hosts. That's Brian. And that's Mary. Join us as we focus the spotlight back on the theater maker to uncover their process. We speak with folks in the industry that often aren't heard from, such as stage managers, producers, crew members, marketing professionals, and everything in between. We hope you enjoy this episode.

[0:26] Stephanie Klemons: Hi, my name is Stephanie Klemons, and I am a Broadway performer. I am a Broadway associate choreographer. I am an industry director, choreographer, and I'm a lover of the arts. Welcome.

[0:42] Brian Sedita: You wear so many different hats, and I can't wait to cover hopefully as many as we can in the time that we have here. But I wanted to start at the beginning of your Broadway career back when you were dance captain for In the Heights. So how did you land that opportunity?

[0:57] Stephanie Klemons: Yeah, so I sort of have like a different entrance into the Broadway community. Not the most, but then you know, what I think the sort of way that maybe like a youth would think of the way that you make it in. I did dance growing up. I didn't really compete. I was in a studio that competed when I was like 11 or so, 10 or 11, and I did like some local competitions that one year. And then I did some competitions when I was in like 11th and 12th grade, but I never really did like the NYCDA circuit, which is kind of the way that a lot of Broadway dancers sort of meet the Andy Blankenbuehler's of the world. And so when I moved to New York and started really auditioning, I got my equity card doing BOMBAY DREAMS, which was before that.

After Bombay Dreams, my first sort of like audition back, I actually started auditioning for In the Heights when I was still on tour. So I was like taking red eyes home from Seattle, going to the audition three weeks in a row. And it was my first time at like an official equity audition, you know. And Andy was like, "Where did you come from?" You know, because he had never seen me, which is not a thing that happens. You kind of like know every little dancer from when they're seven years old. And so probably that worked in my favor because that was exciting, you know, it's just like something fresh. So I met him at the audition for In the Heights, and we kind of just like connected and vibed immediately.

We had some really special experiences, which I've discussed quite a bit in a number of interviews, so not to sort of be redundant for the folks that are listening that know me, but there's this like sort of famous pivotal story that I tell about my final audition for In the Heights. It was the third audition, it was my third red eye back from Seattle, where the BOMBAY DREAMS tour was coming to an end, and I had a call with four ladies, so that's how you know when you're sort of like it's like your third callback, there's only four people left. I knew there were two positions open in the show, so half 50% of us were getting in there. And it was Rosie, Lonnie Fiedelman, myself, Carla Garcia, and one other woman who I actually can't remember her name.

Andy taught all the things he taught in the all the dance calls, and then he decided to, he was like, "We're in the middle of the workshop." So they were doing the dance workshop as it happened, and they were looking for one more onstage female and one and a swing, their only swing. And he was like, "We just choreographed, like we just finished the opening number. So I'm gonna teach you guys a little piece of that," which he loved now that I know him. He just loves to do that. He loves to like put fresh choreography on dancers, he loves to give auditioners an experience and like how thrilling to like learn a brand new number that he just choreographed. And so he taught a portion of that, and we did it in like groups, you know, it was like, you two go, you do.

We did like every variable group of the four of us, and then he's like, "Let's do it one more time. I'm gonna do it with you." And he picked me, Rosie, and he was like, "I'm gonna at the last second, I'm gonna jump in and do it." And we did, it was a section of the second chorus that ends with "when the lights go down, I mess my radio." That section of choreography. And we get to the end of it, and he had taught the step to the right, and I don't know what happened. Like someone came in, hijacked my body. I started the last stab with my left leg. And so it was like, you guys, y'all a bit that are listening can't see me. So it was like Rosie, me, and Andy was in the middle just downstage of us a little.

And so I went with my left foot, so I had no choice but to like make a traffic pattern between them. And then Andy saw that happen, and the step, you know, goes to the left, goes to the right, goes to the left and freezes. So I went to the left, I went in between them. He saw that happen. So when I went to the right, he went upstage of me. And then Rosie noticed that we were all going in different directions. So she traveled to the left, he traveled downstage, I traveled to the left. It was like choreographically, it was like the equivalent of, um, Andy and my relationship is extremely platonic. I'm a lesbian, he's married, so I can say this. It was like this like orgasmic choreographic creative experience because we just like in the moment created this thing, and you know, like I'll never forget it.

And he and I sort of started working together from there on out. He's gonna like kill me for saying that we had an orgasmic creative experience. All the time I say things. He always thinks I'm so odd, and he always like makes fun of me for being eccentric, and I'm like, I was like, "Andy, you chose me." And he's like, "I didn't choose you, God chose you for me." And I was like, "Okay, fine, great, wonderful. The world chose you." But we've had an experience like that ever since, and that actual traffic pattern is actually what ended up being in the final Broadway production of the show. And so that day we got called, like literally, I was like not even at the subway at 50th Street, which used to be like Mars 2112 or something.

I was like right outside the 50th Street one, it used to be the one in nine. And Bethany Knox from Telsey casting called me and she was like, "Are you sitting?" I was like, "Not sitting." She's like, "You got the job." And it was me and Rosie that booked it. So I think Andy was just kind of like stoked and just decided to dance with us as like a little gift. And yeah, so I met Andy in that three weeks, and we've kind of been working together ever since. I hope when I hear this back, I don't regret the telling of that story because that was sort of like a juicier, more intimate way than I've ever told it. But yeah, that's the story that will be next. You heard it intimately and juicy on Page to Stage, everyone.

[6:25] Mary Dina: I love that. I always love hearing audition stories, but I always find them even more exciting when like the storyteller is so into it. So thank you for sharing that tidbit. So, how did you go from that audition to being cast or hired as the dance captain?

[6:44] Stephanie Klemons: Well, I was definitely not the dance captain until well into our off-Broadway run, and that was sort of by necessity, because Javier Munoz, who much of the Broadway world knows now, was playing man three. He sustained a minor back injury that was, I say minor because it was not like he broke his back, but it had him out for weeks. So on an off-Broadway run, weeks is a long time when you have no swings. There's one male swing, and I was the only female swing. The male swing is Michael Baldarama, the legend, and he was the dance captain of the show. And so he was on stage for six weeks. It was first a week and then three weeks, and then like, okay, we can't go this long without a dance captain, without someone watching the show.

And additionally, Olga Meredith, who has like a fierce TV career, kept getting pulled, called to like do these other work. And you know, when you're off-Broadway, you're not making much. So she was like, "I gotta do this other thing." And we had to like find a replacement for her just temporarily to jump in and out because I did not cover grandmother. There was like an internal cover that covered the grandma Doreen Montalvo, Abuela, and Doreen couldn't go on it. Like, if Doreen was on, then I'd be on for Doreen. Anyway, long story long, they were like, "We need a dance captain," and there is zero precedent for an assistant dance captain in an off-Broadway contract at that time when I was doing that show.

So they were like, "There is no contract for that. So we're just gonna make up a price. This is our price." And I was like, "You have got to be kidding me." They offered me and was like so ridiculous. It was like, "Can we give you five dollars a week to work a thousand extra hours?" I was like, "Absolutely not." And I recognize it was an off-Broadway contract. We're all working for much less than we would on Broadway, but I was like, "But you absolutely cannot offend me and abuse me like that." I mean, good on you for at that point in your career, even being able to advocate for yourself in that role because I feel like there are so many stories out there that we hear just you kind of just took it and then the next, and then you kind of use that piece of knowledge and strength, if you will, for the next time.

[8:45] Stephanie Klemons: But yeah, well, it cost me my agent at the time. I had an agent, and he was the one that booked BOMBAY DREAMS for me, and he did not help me get In the Heights. I got that myself. He stepped out of the fight, and that has been a running theme. A lot of people in the industry have the best intentions, but there is a very strong fear around ensemble members and even their agents that you can't push for things because other people will take the job. And at the end of the day, when you're in a position, like for example, in the position that I was in there, I could have held out for so much more. Like it was, I was doing them a favor by holding out for the number that I was asking for. Do you know what I mean?

And I say that, you know, sort of carefully because obviously I love the producers of In the Heights or the producers of Hamilton. I love Jeffrey Seller as a human being. I've worked with him creatively as his choreographer for Fly. But you know, personal relationships aside, business is business. And at the end of the day, if you're lucratively profiting off something, and then you're asking me to go ahead and shine your shoes while I'm doing the work and not give me anything, well, that's just doesn't make any sense. So I held out for, I mean, truly it, a nominal fee, y'all. I'm like not talking major dollars, and they gave it to me less $25. I was like, "That's on your conscience, like you're going to hell for that."

So karma, at least I got something, I got a part of it. But like, if you want to hold out for that 25, good for you, you know. So it was just, and anyway, I became the dance captain. That's the story of that. And I was the assistant dance captain, then we moved to Broadway. I became the co-dance captain, and Michael and I shared the responsibility, though I will say he was a thousand times more school than me in the world of Broadway. Like I said, I took a sort of convoluted circuitous route to Broadway, and so I didn't have quite all the knowledge that he had. And so he taught me everything I know in that way. But yeah, we became co-dance captains once we got to Broadway.

[10:44] Mary Dina: Would you say that that was the first time that you experienced being on the other side of the table, you know, at auditions and seeing the casting process from that side?

[10:53] Stephanie Klemons: No, actually, because I have this weird string of becoming the choreographer of things prior to that point. To like put it in a nutshell when I was, I went to like a performing arts camp, Bucks Rock, shout out Bucks Rock, all the summer camps that are disappearing in COVID. But I went to a summer camp and I was supposed to be a counselor, dance counselor. I got to camp, showed up the first day, went to the dance department, you know, the dance where I had always been as a camper. And they're like, "Hmm, we overbooked the dance department. We're gonna make you the resident choreographer of the musicals." And I was like, "I've never choreographed a musical in my life." Like I don't do mu, I didn't do musicals.

That's my son if you can hear him. I didn't do musicals growing up. I was really only a dancer. And oh baby, it's so hard. I mean, the one thing that COVID has taught a parent is that you can't edit your children out of your life, especially when you work from home. So I'm used to it. So my listeners will be too. That's okay. Okay, great. Awesome. Yeah. So I found myself in a position where I was choreographing musicals. I hadn't really had much experience with it, and I kind of loved it. And so I was casting the musicals, you know, I was 19 years old casting my the campers in the musicals. So that was my first experience, and I was like, "Oh, that's odd that I ended up here, no big deal." And then suddenly, obviously that was pretty professional, sort of.

I mean, I got paid to be a counselor, but you know, then I moved to New York after college and I did some off-Broadway shows, and for a number of reasons, like the choreographer from one off-Broadway show decided that I should be the associate choreographer. So I didn't cast that show, but I was like suddenly in a position of creation and power over the rest of the cast, meaning like I had a little extra something. Additionally, I did another show that was like a mini tour, it was a children's show, same thing. The choreographer suddenly decided that I should be the associate, so I became the associate, and so when we were like looking for replacements, I was casting, and then the last one I was choreographed, I was in an off-Broadway show, it was my first off-Broadway show that I ever did. And then the choreographer got another show that was bigger, he left, and the director was like, "You should choreograph." I was just in the ensemble.

[13:08] Stephanie Klemons: It was like you should choreograph the show. So I choreographed it and I was in the next show, and so I ended up casting that show as well. And so I had and truly like I had no intention of being a choreographer, like I had every intention of being a performer and just performing and enjoying that life, and it was kind of like this thing that just kept coming up, and so it's funny when I became the dance captain of In the Heights, like to bring this story full circle, I was like, again, like what the heck? This is so crazy. Okay, and again, like I don't every time I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, like I will figure it out, I guess, because here we are.

[13:44] Brian Sedita: Do you still feel that way?

[13:46] Stephanie Klemons: Oh, yeah. I mean, when I was directing and choreographing In the Heights for the Kennedy Center, when they called me to do that job, I don't even know how that came up, honestly. I can't remember the origin of that, but I have to say, I felt like who am I to do this? And also because I had been put in the position to learn new skills, I have already seen myself in that light. So while I definitely struggle, I think like every artist, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that every artist does struggle with the imposter syndrome that we sort of hear, right? Where we feel like, who am I to do this? Do I even know what I'm doing? I also because I've seen myself in imposter syndrome land, I know how I deal with it, and I know that I figure it out.

And so I would say, and this is a thing I say to like students when they're like, What's some advice? It's just kind of like the voices in your head never stop. It's just that you get used to them and you learn how to talk back or ignore them. And so for me, I feel like that has been, yes, I do feel it, but also, you know, when there's a fear around like choreographing, you know, when you're in rehearsals for a show, inevitably in the three or four week process, they rewrite a song and you have to throw away scrap everything you've been working on for four months and choreograph the number overnight in your hotel room. That happens to all of us every single time we're opening a show out of town or on Broadway, and you know, the first time that happens, you want to poop yourself, and you're like, is this even gonna be good when I go in to show them, you know, it's 3 a.m. and then it's becoming 6 a.m. and you don't even know it and you're not done, you're like, and I haven't slept, and the voices are just rolling in your head and rolling and rolling, and then you get to a point in your life where you're like every time 10 a.m. rolls around and rehearsal starts, like I create something, and every time it happens, so yes, the voices are screaming, but you know what, you'll be better with some rest.

You know what? It's gonna be okay if you have a first draft and not your final draft or whatever it is. So yeah, I think it still happens, but even if you have like a set plan going into rehearsals, like so much of that can change just with working with the actors, right? I mean, I'm sure you've experienced that being in the room as a performer, you know, getting to, I mean, you did it in your audition within the heights of you know, you make one wrong step, but that step lands it into the next iteration of whatever that number is. So there's so much of trying to kind of like let that part kind of go of yourself, I would say.

[16:15] Brian Sedita: But yeah, totally that's such a good point. I think as the more experienced we get as artists, and the more tools we sort of put in our toolbox, one of those tools is the letting go and not feeling like you have to walk into rehearsal with a perfectly finished product because probably you're gonna shut out a lot of creativity that way, both from yourself and the people in the room.

[16:38] Stephanie Klemons: That's a really great point. So then what are you looking for in the room at an audition in the folks auditioning, especially when you're casting an ensemble?

[16:47] Stephanie Klemons: Good humans. I mean, really, from this like when people walk in the room, no, you don't see the person right away, but oftentimes people walk in the room and they make an impression, like the way they put the bag down, the way they walk and treat other people. If someone's in their space and they give them a side eye, I don't miss it and I don't forget it. And that side eye is gonna come up when you're in a cleanup rehearsal and they don't understand the note and they're annoyed and they don't want to take it. And so, similarly, conversely, the person who someone's standing in front of them over and over again, and they just keep, you know, making space, not in a way where they're being stepped on, but in a way that they're like, I'm not gonna let you like F with my, you know, my chill, that that chill person's gonna show up for you when the curtain goes up and something goes awry and they have to think on their feet.

And so ultimately, a lot of things can be taught. An excellent teacher is, you know, you're all about the materials and the ingredients that you work with, and the act of teaching it is such a huge portion. So when you have excellent teachers, you can really mold people, but you can't change their constitution. If somebody is made up of lots of black clouds, that black cloud's gonna follow you to your shelves. So truthfully, that's the first and most important thing that we look for. One of my professors in college used to say, all I really care about when I'm casting a show is who do I want to be in a room with and spend time with for four weeks? It's like number one thing. So I've never been able to share that on the podcast yet.

So I'm glad that you brought that up because it's so true. And a lot of people, when we have them on, kind of talk about just being a good human, and that's what makes you get a job and another job and another job.

[18:43] Stephanie Klemons: Yeah, and when you're the dance captain, it's not four weeks, it can be three years. You know, and so oftentimes in Broadway shows it's the dance captains and the associates running the show, and they don't get to walk away after four weeks. So it's like really like who do you want to hang out with for a while and make art with? And you know, the one thing that I would say that I noticed pretty quickly in my career, you know, I spent probably like a year sort of auditioning, like pounding the pavement like everybody, and then you know, 10 months in I booked that BOMBAY DREAMS gig, and then I had In the Heights, and I sort of was working with like, you know, at the time, people who would become like really the upper echelon of the industry.

Like I watched them kind of come up. And there's one difference I can tell you about the way that it feels to be around people who are not gonna make it. I'm just gonna go out there and say it, and people who do make it, and that is humility, which it's almost like it should be the opposite, right? Because the people who are not gonna make it, you'd think like they'd be so humble and wanting to learn, and but it's like it's never like that. It's always the opposite, and it shows up in the audition room, like the difference of the feeling you have when you're non-equity and you're walking into an audition at 5 a.m. The people that are around you is like it's and I don't know because I haven't been to those auditions in a long time, so maybe the human race is changing.

I hope we are, but it was like I'll never forget those regional auditions were so cutthroat, and people would like sing out loud so you can hear how good they are, stretching their leg over their head. You go to like an aging call for a Broadway show where everyone's been in three or four Broadway shows, nobody's showing off. Everyone's like, how are you? Oh my god, you did so great, doing what they need to do, keeping their head down, and like I'll never forget when I was in If/Then with Adina Menzel and Anthony Rapp and LaChanze and James Schneider, and all I mean, just like Broadway royalty was in that show, Jen Callea. I've never ever in my whole life worked for like in a more chill space, like there was no ego in the room.

There was no ego. Michael Greif, Tom Kitt, Brian Yorkey. I mean, the names just, and it was like I it was a joy to go to work and just create and you could mess up, and like, you know, I had these lines and they weren't funny, and I was so bummed and I just wanted to be funny, and it's just like they just like they cut them, and I was like, you know, and it just like I didn't have to prove anything. It was like, okay, I didn't land that part. Those lines are not gonna be in the show. You're gonna do other things in the show. And like, same thing with Adina. Like, we kept working this opening number. We had like 14 versions, and she was like, I'm so sorry, you guys, I'm not landing it. She's just like, it wasn't like she wasn't proving anything.

She just was there to do the work. She was just as imposter syndrome-y as she probably was on her first day of Rent off Broadway. And that's like the extended version of what you just said, Brian. Like, it's just true that there's a situation where you find yourself in where you're suddenly like, wait a minute, like no one's trying to prove to me how good their riff is in my ear, but I'm actually at the top here. So it's kind of wonderful and awesome and crazy.

[21:58] Mary Dina: And it's so, I'm sure it's so grounding too, especially for anyone, specifically with If/Then, if they were making their Broadway debut of just like, you know, that kind of deep breath of just okay, it's gonna be okay. Like it's not the end of the world.

[22:13] Stephanie Klemons: Yeah, and I and you know, I don't even think we had a Broadway debut in that show. I don't remember, I don't think we maybe some replacement or something, but it was such an old group of I really loved that show. It was like, I know it was the movement, it was a beautiful story. So iconic to me, yes. The story was beautiful, and yes, Larry Keigwin did such cool stuff, but it was, you know, I it was really humbling to be around that and also like rewarding to be reminded because I don't really I'm not so good at that competitive thing. I didn't compete growing up, like I told you, wasn't really my style. I kind of just like to come and do my thing. I generally take the, you know, non-traditional route to things, and that I never really feel comfortable, you know, I never really felt comfortable in like musical theater auditions, like wearing heels and the dress and it matches and I have my sheet music and I'm so great and I have beautiful makeup on.

That was like never really something I was so good at. And so when I finally kind of not finally didn't, I mean, I was very lucky. I had, you know, booked In the Heights quite early, but when I kind of was there, I was like, oh, I don't have to be something I'm not. Like I could just, I could just be me. And like really that's also a testament to the world of Broadway. Yes, Broadway has a lot of issues, as we all know, and I'm so grateful that we're asking the hard questions and there's reckoning coming and there's so much more work to do. And additionally, we're not looking at a Broadway that's still just telling an all-white Oklahoma story. We're looking at a Broadway that's asking how can we expand and maybe you don't wear a musical theater dressing character shoes, but you still have a story to tell.

[23:52] Mary Dina: So I think that we're growing and expanding. So when did you realize that, you know, the character shoe, the shorter dress or just the dress in general, like when did you realize that was not something that you had to put on for an audition that you could and in fact you should be what you're most comfortable in?

[24:12] Stephanie Klemons: You know, I always felt and this is like nothing to bring on to the drag community, but I always felt like I was dressing in drag when I would go to an audition, like wearing those things. And I had had some advice. I had an agent audition early on, and the agent's feedback was like, I know you're from New Jersey, and you should fix that. It was like something along those lines. And I just I went in like thinking I was like had this cool look and I was setting myself apart, and she basically was like, girl, I'm not gonna, I'm I'm not gonna be your agent, and no one's gonna be your agent. Because and like good, great. Thank you for helping me find out the road that is not for me, probably direct me to the road that was for me.

And that really hurt my feelings. And so being someone that never really felt comfortable in those shoes, I just was like, I'm just not good at this. It wasn't even like, oh, thank goodness I don't have to do this. It was like I would put that garb on and just be like, I'm not my best self. Like, I'm not gonna sing my best self, I'm not gonna dance my best self. And like, yes, you can be your we're actors, and we should be acting, but like that was like acting to be an actor to act. It was like too many hats on a hat. It was like so far from my authenticity that it just didn't make sense. And you know, when I run auditions now and I talk to people, and so there's some people who just don't book Hamilton or In the Heights or whatever I'm casting, they're like, you know, they'll write to me.

I always encourage, like, if you have questions or why did I book this, write to me on Instagram or whatever. And they'll be like, why didn't I get it? And I'm like, it's just not for you. And if you want to keep working to make this shoe fit your foot, go right ahead, bind your feet, do all the things you need to do, fine, you still might not get it. Or you can start to focus your attention on the shoe that will fit. You can start to focus your attention on the boxes you do fit in. And like, I know there's this whole thing, like, well, maybe you don't think so, but maybe if Andy's in the room, or maybe if a different dance captain, like sometimes it's a matter of opinion, most of the time, you're just not right for the thing.

[26:15] Stephanie Klemons: And I know because I've been in situations, like I auditioned for Wicked, and I would make it down to like the last two every single time, and I never booked Wicked. And like I was like, what is the problem? Like, you know, I can dance, I can sing, like that, like what's the issue? But like whatever. It was not for me. And I just have to be okay with that, you know. And there were obviously other things in my career that were for me. And so yeah, I think that it's like there's so many lessons. There's so much richness that you can find in that, not just in the industry, but like how you carry yourself in the world. Um, but yeah, I'm grateful that that lesson was something that I feel like maybe when I booked In the Heights, which was um like I like I said, I was like a year and a half into my time in New York, I had been on the BOMBAY DREAMS tour for about a year at the time.

And I think it was probably then. I think it was in the Heights audition. It was like, you know, when I was like, oh, there's shows out there where I can just be Stephanie. I can be my sort of like, I like to wear baggy clothes and I like to be feminine, but also a little bit loose and athletic, and I don't have to look like this like prim and proper, you know, no shade on the Midwest, but it felt like this like you have to be like this woman from the Midwest with like perfect cheekbones and the proper color red. And I just was like, I look silly, yeah.

[27:36] Stephanie Klemons: I want to ask a really super serious question. So when you I can't even say it with a straight face. Do you only work at the Richard Rogers Theater? Like, you know, I had someone come up to me recently and say, you know, a few more, and they're gonna name it the Stephanie Klemons here. And um, I appreciated that as a compliment. It's so funny, right? That it's just and it the other thing that's crazy about that is I've had my, my I request my same dressing station every time. They offered when I was the dance captain of because I was also the associate of Hamilton to give me a separate what's became Jasmine's dressing room. They were gonna do the Skylar sisters differently. And I was like, no, I like as dance captain, I like to be in the dressing room because I like to hear the murmurings of the ensemble because like to stay in in put my feet in the water always, and so I had my same dressing station, and when I left that dressing station, I was literally like I can't like I hope I come back to you, but also like I may never, and I was just like it was like moving out of like your childhood home.

And and what was crazy is that when I did If/Then I already knew I was doing Hamilton, and so there was a Broadway show coming, yeah, because we were doing the workshop because it was I it was quite it. There was another Broadway show in there. It was um um the Robin Williams, the Bengal Tiger was in there in between. Um and uh but I knew, and obviously I had already I'm friends with everyone at the Rogers, so like Tim Petalina, who's the house manager, and and Jimmy the and Angela, the doorman, and and um I was like, Can I leave my stuff here? Because like, you know, you live in an apartment, you have your like makeup that you only wear in shows and your sh work, you know, on shoes and whatever.

So they like actually redid the dressing rooms, and uh there was like a Stephanie trunk that just stayed there through the renovations, they renovated the whole thing, it was my stuff was still there. Um, yeah, it is my home away from home.

[29:31] Stephanie Klemons: So I think it's time that we talk about your many hats at Hamilton and how all of them like was it a domino effect of like being cast in the show? What when you were cast in the show, did you know that you were gonna wear more than one hat? So I cast myself in the show. Love it. So if we could all be collecting, but what happened was is we were working on Bring It On. Andy, I was associate choreographer of Bring It On. Lynn was co-writing it with the other folks with Amanda Green and Tom Kitt. And um we were Lynn let us hear My Shot during tech one day. And Andy looked at me and he's like, We're doing this next, you know. So I was like, okay, so we're doing this. But you know, that's like 2010.

The show goes to uh Bring It On goes to Broadway, Bring It On closes. I do Fly out of town with Jeffrey Seller and Andy Blankenbuehler and and Alex Lacamoire and Bill Sherman. And I say to Andy, okay, I'm in Fly, I want to be a dancer in Fly, which there's like a gag story about that, not to tell us, but basically, like I got injured on the third day of rehearsal, someone hurt me with a set piece by accident. And I ended up sitting next to him and like giving him Ricky Ship was the official associate choreographer of that show, but I was like sitting next to Andy giving, you know, doing the thing the whole time. I was injured until tech rehearsal, which is like the gaggedy gag, because all I wanted to do was dance.

But so um we we did Bring It On back to the story. We did Bring It On, and um, he's like, We're gonna do Hamilton. So it's like months are getting closer. Like I said, all those things passed in between. Andy says, you know, like, are you gonna be performing or do you want to choreograph it? Because I would like you to associate choreograph the show with me. And I was like, Oh, I don't know. It's just like I'm doing choreographing so much. I like I associate choreographed the the tour of In the Heights because I was a dance captain with Michael, and you needed someone to set it, and that's I did that, and then we did Bring It On, and just like I just my performance career, like I'm getting older.

And he I just didn't choose. And there's like three weeks before we got to the audition starting, and he's like, I need to pick an associate, like um, like we need to start like really doing this. Um and I I said, Well, who you gonna pick as your associate if it's not me? And he told me who it was, and I was like, absolutely not, and what I'll never say this person's name. This conversation will never leave because but what's crazy is like the difference in what our lives could have been, me and this person had we swapped positions here. It's just like I I always get asked this question, I think about it every single time. Like it's just absolutely if I told you who it was, it's nuts. Anyway, um I said I didn't want that person to um do it, I wanted to do it.

And he was like, Great. So here we are, we're running auditions, we're you know, we're working on the show, choreographing things, blah blah blah. We get to the final, we cast the whole show. We do the workshop of the show. I'm the associate choreographer, we're doing the workshop, whatever. We don't need swings until we get to Broadway. And the whole time I'm thinking, like, I really want to make a space for myself in this. And um, If/Then is happening on Broadway still, I'm doing double duty, and finally we get to the auditions. I'm in the room with Bethany Knox, we run an audition for um for the you know, like the last required okay, we need to have one more audition because we just haven't found a swing.

And I was like, okay, so I want to be the swing. And she was like, really? I was like, Yeah, I want to be the swing. She's like, Does everybody know this? And I'm like, Well, Andy knows this, but like I don't think he told Tommy yet, and I don't know if Lynn knows, and she was like, Oh, well, let's send an email. Like, we don't have to have the audition, like, we're done, then we could just go, you know, home. And so she sent the email, and everybody was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad she wants to do it. And so um, I cast myself in Hamilton. I mean, in all seriousness, it's really a lot of work to be the associate choreographer and the dance captain and swinging the show. Like, you know, I was the associate choreographer, so I was focused on so many things, and then third day of tech, uh I'm sorry, third preview, I was on.

And so um, so you know, I think they wanted to be sure and they knew me well, and they knew, you know, Tommy was like, Can you do all the work? So when you're actually on stage with everybody that you're overseeing, does your brain actually clock the choreography and making sure it looks good as a I don't want to say the whole picture because you can't see the whole picture, but like are you looking at other people on stage or are you just focused on your track that night?

[33:50] Stephanie Klemons: One hundo looking at everybody, yeah. I figured one hundo. I mean the best notes come from inside I mean, like yeah, I give more notes when I'm on than when I keep when I when I'm on as a dance captain, I have a notepad on either side of the stage and I just jot notes. Anyone that's on a show with me knows that I I keep like uh reuse reasonable paper in like a little folder. I'm like, leave me a love note or a note, whatever. So when I'm on, I leave myself like so and so has to move to this number. So and so this is so-and-so is getting close here. Yeah, oh yeah. But like performing, yeah. Yeah, giving 200% there. Yes, exactly. How is it preparing for like as a performer? And then also, well, looking at all of the hats. So, as a performer, as the dance captain, as the associate choreographer, how are you able to separate or not your process of putting together the show? Did anything change any of your warm up routines or just routines in general?

[34:41] Stephanie Klemons: Yeah, it's funny because when I was having I was having dinner with Tommy and Andy one night, and Tommy asked me the same question. I keep the two things very separate. Meaning when I'm working, I'm working. Like when we're in rehearsals, I'm working, and I'll joke around and I'll make jokes and whatnot, but like I don't really mess around. And when I'm being a friend and I'm on stage and I'm your castmate, I'm your castmate. I don't give notes in your ear, I don't tell people to move, I don't correct them when I'm with them. And so I think that kind of helps people separate the two things and know when you're being one and when you're being the other. But it also requires a lot of patience and emotional intelligence from the cast members to sort of say, okay, well, now she's giving me a note and now she's, you know, not.

And so I think that establishing those two personas, like establishing the now I'm giving you a note, and establishing the now we're cast members and we can mess around and do all the things is important. And then being honest with that. Like don't give someone a note in while you're buddy butt chummying with them on stage. Don't don't breach that. Even if you have a note to give them, don't disrespect that friendship and that vulnerability and that opening.

[35:58] Stephanie Klemons: So it still sounds like a collaboration, like because it goes both ways of you know that mutual respect and understanding. Right. And then they respect you when you walk in the room and you have the note face on and they're like, okay, she's giving me a note now. Like Jonathan Groff was always the funniest. Like because we'd be have like all these messing around. Someone, some fan recently made like some compilation video of a video that I haven't seen in such a long time. And he and I are doing this ridiculous dance in the basement of the theater. So like, you know, we'd have all this playtime because he was always backstage and I was always backstage watching things, you know, and then noting things or whatever.

And then like I'd go into stress room and give me like an and like when he I was giving him a note, he's so professional. It was like, okay, this is note timing. What do you want? I'm gonna write it down. And so yeah, it's collaboration for sure. Absolutely. But but yeah, I think you have to just establish the two things and then don't breach the trust of the two. When you're giving a note, don't mess around. Don't like try to chum up, just give the note, be direct, have discussion. And when you're on stage, don't give, don't be that person. Don't give the notes, be the person where someone can be vulnerable and make mistakes in front of you and and you know that they're not gonna be judged.

[36:58] Stephanie Klemons: I just wanted to know very quickly when did you decide to leave Hamilton? The titling got very confusing, and it's a thing that happened because of a thing, which again I won't really talk about here. Um, but regardless, um, so my official title is Associate and Supervising Choreographer. Okay. That's my official title. Global Supervising Choreographer, I throw on because I also managed a London company. Um, things are about to change at Hamilton. You know, we're opening more international companies. I have a child, and I'm certainly not gonna keep the travel schedule that I'd been maintaining for the last five years. Um, and so there's gonna be lots of other people popping in and having titles that sound very similar, confusingly similar to that.

But basically, I chose to leave when the work of building the Chicago company and being in the show and being the dance captain seemed like it was asking me to compromise the integrity of one or more of those things. So when I started to feel like I actually can't do all these things, what happened was as the stage manager there, Jason That's it, I would be casting a show or in rehearsals from 10 to 6 on a Monday, you know, having a rehearsal from 10 to 12 on Tuesday, then rehearsing 12 to 6, and then doing the show at night, and then and it was a seven-day a week thing, and we've all done double duty for three weeks at a time, or taken a week off and then do another. We all do double duty all the time.

That's not a thing that's hard. It was the extended double duty that was like month after month. He was like, You can take a night off, or you could take a breather here. And I was like, that's not fair. It's just not fair to my cast members, like to be like the swing that's not in the building, like that's not the way that we work. And I also lived on Long Island, and so it wasn't like I could just run back down from 125th or something. So I decided to leave my um swing and dance captain contract and become merely the associate choreographer. So I was holding two titles at the time. I left my, you know, that contract to just become the associate choreographer. The conversation that ensued there regarding, because they're right, there is no associate choreographer contract. Now things are sort of changing for SDC and they're performing these things, but at the time there was nothing.

[39:12] Stephanie Klemons: And we found ourselves back in this conversation with the same producers from the same conversation I had 10 years ago. It went exactly the same way. I also had an agent, we left the agenting, and she actually started working for SDC. Um, and I love her very much. Again, I won't name her here if that's an offensive story to tell, but um, it didn't go well, and everybody backed out of the fight until I finally sat down in the office with Jeffrey Seller and his GM Andy Jones, and I said, here's the thing nobody knows Hamilton, nobody can set the show at this current moment. In a year, when I teach it to someone and I teach someone how to set it, which became Michael Baldurama, I'm gonna teach someone to set it.

And even then, I'm gonna know it better because even blank and bueller doesn't teach every track or do every track or hasn't been in the show. And I'm asking you for an amount of money that's more than the ensemble but less than the principles, and I'm going to be building your second company and presumably your your third and possibly fourth companies, and I could probably ask you for a lot more because at this current juncture, there is no human being on this earth that can build Hamilton, and you need more Hamilton's built. And it was a very fast 20-minute conversation, and we ended up with a contract that, from what I hear from other people, is the biggest associate contract that's ever been created.

I don't know if that's true. Um, I'm not in the business of speaking to other associates about their money. Um, but I did end up with health insurance and I did end up with benefits, and I do feel as though that was the bare minimum for the amount of work that I was doing. I was working, I mean, like between 90 and 100 something hours a week and happily and devoted and thrilled to be doing it because I loved the project I was working on, but I wanted at the end of me having my head in the sand for two years and not ever seeing my wife and not performing and not doing all these other things, I wanted to have something to show for it. And I wanted to be able to have some freedom after financial freedom, which we all know as artists is really hard to come by.

And it wasn't about exploiting Hamilton, it was about really just getting what I think that I was worth. And so the actual changing of the hats and the changing of the titles was came from uh both the necessity to the artistic integrity of the show as well as to not convolute the um financial uh ridiculous offers that were being thrown at me. Um everybody wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and I was not about it.

[41:42] Brian Sedita: Well, that's I mean, this is not the podcast, the episode nor the podcast to go into that kind of stuff. But when you hear a story like that and you know the value of Hamilton, it just it just infuriates me to know that people on the inside who are making it happen or created it so involved. Um, and and like you were, uh, we're not getting it really makes me upset.

[42:09] Stephanie Klemons: But yeah, and you know what? There's it's it's it's on the one hand, I recognize, you know, again, taking a motion out of it, which is something I've learned really well uh that it's really important when you're having these conversations. You know, as artists, we put our heart into things, but when you're talking about the business side, you can't be emotional about it. And um truly it wasn't about I love the people that I was working with. I love um the the producers, I'm so thrilled for the art that they've allowed us, afforded us to bring through to the world. I obviously love Lynn. I respect Oscar Eustace greatly. But at the same time, their job is to make the dollars go back to their investors so they can make more art, right?

So they have a goal. Their goal is to keep their investors happy so the investors keep investing and we keep having art. So that's important to them. I get that. But if you don't make um, I know this we said this is not the podcast, but it's important as artists that we we learn to carve out our piece. And I'll tell you, it's not a popular opinion. I've I've sat down on in chats with other when the associates are having their, you know, talks with SDC, and it's not a popular opinion. And I'm not a popular associate in the room because everybody is like, well, we're not in Hamilton and we can't just walk off the job. And I'm like, you know, if that's the cre if that's the attitude that you're taking, you sure can't. And and you're gonna keep getting paid less than the ensemble for being the one who is actually carrying all of them.

And that's actually fundamentally ridiculous. And um, if you can't find a way to explain that to someone, um, I want to support you, but I also can't make you because I I understand the fear that is around that for you. Um, I I've had a lot of really upset people tell me why that's not possible for them. And so um yeah, and so anyway, the back to your question. I left because I wanted to be clear about what the job I was doing. And um, and then obviously g Chicago came, and then we shortly thereafter did the the California, the Angelica Company that did the sit-downs in LA and San Francisco, and and then it kind of just kept going from there, which is when I brought um not I, uh the dance department, not me personally, I was not not as responsible for a lot, it was not responsible for this.

Um, Andy and the dance department decided to bring on um resident choreographers in every city, which we decided to name dance supervisors. Um, and so the official title for the the position of resident choreographer at Hamilton is dance supervisor, and which is why supervising choreographer is so confusing because it's so many supervisors. Um, but that's what we do. There's so many moving pieces, and yeah, the departments just keep going, just keep getting getting bigger and bigger.

[44:40] Mary Dina: Yeah, and I even like speaking for myself before we jump into Fly, I just like I feel like every time I have a conversation, even it's even if it's with the same producer or the same person, it's always like it feels like it always blindsides me every single time. So just hearing conversations of how other people just go after it and to get what they want is super inspiring to me. So thank you for sharing that. Um okay, so I definitely want to jump in Fly quickly as you know our time is limited. But working on Fly, you've now worked with Andy for several years on various different roles with any with each other specifically. And so I'm curious as to how with Fly, as co-choreographers, how was your shorthand? How were you guys working together? How was your collaboration process?

[45:22] Stephanie Klemons: Yeah, so we started working on Fly like seven years ago. I mean, we started Fly before bringing on. Um and we did act uh so we did those two out of 10 runs. We also did like a really awesome magical dance workshop. Um and you know, it's crazy because so when he called me to be co-choreographer, I was pregnant, but he knew I was pregnant, but nobody knew I was pregnant. And so I knew that it meant taking my seven-month-old to California for three months, and I knew that my wife has a job in New York, and so it was really hard. But I think he offered me co-choreographer because he knew that it was a hard decision, and he really wanted me to do it, right? So he um has an you know good relationship with Jeffrey Sellers, he does not want to let Jeffrey Sellers down, he needs to choreograph this, he also needs to spend some time with his family.

He hasn't seen his family in forever because he's been so busy, and he called me and I was like, I called my wife right away, and I was like, listen, are we doing this? And she was like, this is a big opportunity for you, we'll figure it out. So when we started working on this, it started as like us in a studio playing around with choreography, pre-production, you know, really like the associate choreographer to choreographer kind of vibe and relationship. And um, we did like a dance workshop, and then a while later we did another workshop. I mean, we've done a lot of kind of work on this, and then when I decided in Dallas I wanted to perform and not choreograph, he was like, well, what am I supposed to do?

Like, you've been my, you know, we've been doing this all along. And Ricky Tripp was also a part of all of the creation. So he's like, Ricky's gonna be the associate, great, no problem. And I was like thrilled, I love Ricky, that's wonderful. Um, and when we went to do the next production, he knew that he had to give me something kind of more than associate because I wasn't really interested in continuing to be the associate, and so I think that was part of why he offered co-choreographer. There was another project that we had done previously called Zelda, which I don't know if many people know about, but it was basically a project where um Frank Wildtorn had written this show. We did it at Flat Rock Playhouse.

It was used to be called Waiting for the Moon, and Andy could not be there, he was doing something and basically he just kept he was like, you're gonna do all the additional choreography. We're gonna have someone set my old choreography, you'll choreograph new stuff. So we have done various forms of choreographic relationships. And when Fly came around in this co-choreographing thing, you know, I think he had to sell the idea on Jeffrey. Jeffrey was like, you know, can she do it? And what's you know, where's the proof? And Jeffrey he was the director. He is the director of Fly. And um, you know, it it was really about this long-term trust that Andy's built at me and also, you know, Andy as a choreographer who has um taken the time to hone his craft and also jumped into choreography when he was like he was performing and then he was like I'm gonna choreograph now and he he knew how hard it was to go from being at the top of his performance career to the bottom of a choreography career.

He learned lessons in front of people on Broadway stages and and he's so um forgiving of that and he's so supportive of that. And so he really just let me do that. And so finally what what happened was is when he showed up it was terrifying for me but also it was like a master class, you know and so he trusts me, he knows that he has a lot to teach me. I know that I have a lot to learn from him and yet the relationship is really there.

[48:43] Mary Dina: Okay, before we lose anybody game I guess let's just hop to the lightning round.

[48:48] Stephanie Klemons: Okay, this is my favorite question on earth.

[48:50] Mary Dina: What is one thing in the theater industry that confuses you?

[48:54] Stephanie Klemons: I think the musical theater dresses. I don't get why people have to wear that in order to book shows. I don't understand what the cross body tie the tie. It's three quarters length. I don't understand the musical theater dress.

[49:08] Mary Dina: If you could only perform the same number over and over again for the rest of your career, what would that number be?

[49:14] Stephanie Klemons: Room where it happens, room where it happens, a room where it happens.

[49:18] Mary Dina: That's the best answer.

[49:20] Stephanie Klemons: Um what are three adjectives that describe your favorite working environment?

[49:25] Stephanie Klemons: Fun, um hard working. That's not an adjective, but you know what I mean. And um productive.

[49:35] Mary Dina: Scariest moment on stage.

[49:37] Stephanie Klemons: 100%. Um, when I dislocated my shoulder during the off-roadway run of Yorktown and then had to finish the number and the show.

[49:46] Mary Dina: What is one hobby that you have outside of theater?

[49:49] Stephanie Klemons: I definitely just realized I have like four answers for the scariest, but let's not do that. Okay, one hobby outside of theater is um yoga.

[49:56] Mary Dina: Who is your favorite musical theater composer to dance to?

[50:00] Stephanie Klemons: Oh, I mean, Alex Lackmore's like you can't fight with that.

[50:04] Stephanie Klemons: And my favorite musical theater composer, just in general, that people wouldn't expect is Frank Wildhorn. Love a modulation. I love his major chords, I love his modulations. I just dig it. It's so musical theater, it's so musical theater.

[50:16] Mary Dina: I totally agree.

[50:17] Stephanie Klemons: Favorite go-to or favorite or go-to pre-show or after show meal.

[50:22] Stephanie Klemons: Shake shack.

[50:23] Mary Dina: Shake shack.

[50:24] Stephanie Klemons: I wish my answer was something like skinnier, but like screw being skinny, but I love Shake Shack. I love a try and a beer.

[50:31] Mary Dina: Whenever we ask this these questions, one was like, oh, New York, like missing that.

[50:35] Stephanie Klemons: I know.

[50:36] Mary Dina: Oh.

[50:36] Stephanie Klemons: I know.

[50:37] Mary Dina: Um, okay.

[50:37] Stephanie Klemons: So then last question: what is the last great piece of theater that you saw?

[50:42] Stephanie Klemons: Um, in the interest of speeding up, because I could think forever, the last piece that I really remember being just so fabulous, wiped me off my feet was Amadeus in London. And um, the performance of of Mozart was so insane, and just the whole production, everything. I mean, just generally speaking, anything at the national or the old globe in London generally swipes me off my feet. Um, but that is the last one where I was like, geez Louise, I'm so excited I'm in this industry.

[51:10] Mary Dina: Where can our listeners find you on social media websites?

[51:15] Stephanie Klemons: Social media. My website is my name, StephanieClemons.com. Lots of fun information there and ways to get in touch with me. And of course, I do the gram danceism. So it's like dance like a religion. And then I'm Steph underscore Clem on Twitter because danceism is also a famous European DJ, and he got that one before I did.

[51:34] Mary Dina: Interesting.

[51:35] Stephanie Klemons: Well, I will link all of those in the description notes below.

[51:39] Mary Dina: And yeah, so thank you.

[51:40] Stephanie Klemons: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[51:42] Stephanie Klemons: Thank you for having me. This was so fun and funny and hilarious. I appreciate y'all.

[51:46] Brian Sedita: Thanks for continuing to bring our stories forward.

[51:49] Mary Dina: Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of Page to Stage. To keep up with us, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Page2Stage Podcast. And if you're enjoying these conversations, we would really appreciate it if you could take a couple minutes to rate and review us wherever you're listening to this podcast. Until next time.

[52:06] Brian Sedita: That's Brian.

[52:07] Mary Dina: That's Mary.

[52:08] Brian Sedita: We'll see you later.

[52:09] Mary Dina: Bye.