This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brian Sedita: Hey everyone, welcome to Page to Stage.

[0:03] Mary Dina: A conversation with theater makers.

[0:05] Brian Sedita: We're your hosts. That's Brian.

[0:06] Mary Dina: And that's Mary.

[0:07] Brian Sedita: Join us as we focus the spotlight back on the theater maker to uncover their process.

[0:12] Mary Dina: We speak with folks in the industry that often aren't heard from.

[0:15] Brian Sedita: Such as stage managers, producers, crew members, marketing professionals.

[0:19] Mary Dina: And everything in between. We hope you enjoy this episode.

[0:25] Mercedes Murphy: Hi, I am Mercedes Murphy, and I am a theater director.

[0:41] Mary Dina: So all of that. I love it. Well, I'm so excited to have you, as I said, just a couple minutes before we started recording. You were my movement professor in college at Montclair State University, freshman year. And I have to say, just to get us going, when I was in the Montclair State program for acting, it was very movement. There was a lot of movement components to the program. And whenever people would ask me, what are you doing in school? And I would say movement as one of the things that I was doing in school, they would always say, well, they were so confused I couldn't really explain what it is we did. So I'm wondering if you have some sort of way to encapsulate what movement in the theater for the actor looks like in your brain.

[1:31] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah, definitely. I feel like a lot of what guides me is sort of that sort of abyss between who we are and who we want to be, and a lot of that sort of escapes words. And so therefore we're left with movement, you know, or song. And so my training was heavily focused on the viewpoints and Grotowski, and so the viewpoints is a way to sort of work on stage composition. It's, you know, originally I studied with Mary Overly, who had a sort of orientation more towards dance, and then I worked with Ann Bogart, who is more theater-based, but both heavily rooted in movement, being sort of the engine and the driver for the creation of work, you know. I think the thing that separates me, and maybe we can talk about it later, is actually the amount of sort of like research and source work I do and like pair that with.

But movement really, you know, anyone who's taken my class, we have always start the same way. And I feel like movement is such a nice sort of way to get a really awful painful routine that you do again and again. So you can show up one day and not want to be there.

[2:58] Mary Dina: I'm so happy you brought that up. Can you explain to the listeners what that routine is?

[3:02] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah, okay. So it's been called by my loving students the circle of pain, and it is a combination, it starts almost like a yoga/slash Pilates movement sort of sequence. But my focus from the beginning, we start with breath. So it's sort of a frenetic guided meditation, if that makes sense. The most important thing is first you stand in a circle, which is why it's called the circle of pain, and you find a partner across the circle from you, and you make direct eye contact with them and start breathing with them. And that is the most essential part of it because as soon as you have that partner, that connection becomes very real. And I feel like there's lots of times when there's movement training that it is, you know, that might be what separates us from, say, a ballet class or, you know, jazz class or a modern class.

Is it really is about trying to connect with another actor or creator in the space in that moment. So that's the way the circle starts and it progresses through the different sort of sun salutes, and then it's very quickly sort of either evolves or devolves, depending on how it's going into more Grotowski work, which is plastiques and really sort of rigorous physical exertion. I try to actually physically exhaust the actors to the point where they have nothing less to except their experience of that sort of exhaustion, you know. That's where I always say like exhaustion is the edge of discovery. And it sounds crazy and it sounds like I'm a militant and a bully, but it actually like everyone gets to draw their own line of where that exhaustion is.

And sometimes it's physical, sometimes it's emotional, and sometimes you never find it. But either way, it sort of gives you a way to take your focus off yourself and start to already get the wheels going sort of creatively.

[5:17] Mary Dina: I mean, just hearing you talk about that is like making me like, you know, having gone through that makes me like just salivate to do that again, especially after the past couple of months of coronavirus, you know. So I mean, you don't sound militant. It's really something that I think you can really become addicted to doing that sort of practice. I think it's I actually feel that everyone would benefit from it. Because the just the idea of getting the attention off yourself and trying to be present is two sort of muscles that have not really been used that much in our current society. But I think they're essential for a creative process and for a really thoughtful exchange where hopefully you ask at least one hard question that maybe you don't find an answer to, but at least you tried, you know.

And I do feel like bringing your whole body to that means you're bringing your heart, your mind, and your soul. Where sometimes you can sit around a table and sort of break down, like I've been thinking about Three Sisters non-stop during the pandemic. I think to Moscow is like to the election. But like there's a part where it really is you could sit there and talk about Three Sisters, or you could get up, do the circle, and then get on a grid, which we haven't really talked about yet. Maybe I'll explain that in a second. And you have a totally different connection to the work, to the people in the room. And that's when it becomes theater because it could only happen then with those people in that room in that circle.

[6:51] Mary Dina: So you talked about at first, you like when you first get started, you're making the connection with like one person across the circle from you. Are you keeping that connection with that one person, or are you then expanding it to incorporate everybody or anybody?

[7:05] Mercedes Murphy: A great question. I, you know, Brian could probably chime in. I hope, and when it's, you know, is first it you get your focus off yourself, it goes on to the other person, and then all of a sudden it's strange. You sort of like a tree growing roots. All of a sudden, the people on either side of you become important and become your partners to sort of stay focused on the person across from you. All of a sudden you're starting to realize there's like some fuckwad who's behind everyone else who's too slow, there's someone else who's like incredible, and the whole time you're it's really it's not like this sort of you know, crazy sort of shafts of sunlight and sort of this harps and like you know, a choir of oz.

It's it really is in the room hating someone who's too loud and breathes weird, like loving someone that they'll never know how much you love them, and just these little moments like really being in the room. I think sometimes people think of being present as being like good, like no, if you can have all the other emotions, so it totally your focus goes everywhere. It goes, you know, I sort of talk about the idea of having the focus like right in front of you, and then you can have the like right to your partner, behind your partner, extending outside the room, extending to you know the edge of the you know, riverfront, extending into Manhattan, extending past Manhattan into Brooklyn. And the idea of like that focus keeps on sort of irising in and out, and that is what really great theater is.

That's like no theater. The idea that at one moment you can be so focused on some very essential sort of main event, and then all of a sudden a new audience member enters and your focus can change to somehow trying to intend with that audience member that they're going to feel the beginning energy of the play while you keep the plot moving forward. You know? So you sort of have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. And physical exhaustion, I think helps that.

[9:05] Mary Dina: I'm trying to remember as you were explaining the beginning of this. I was brought back to when I was assistant directing a production at Montclair. And I feel like the movement, I think she was the choreographer, even though it was a play because it was Pride and Prejudice. I think she it was Heather. I don't remember her last name, but I'm sure she was. Are you shaking your head? Yes, Brian, because it was.

[9:25] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[9:25] Mary Dina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember I just like walked into rehearsal one day and not knowing what was happening. And it was I was like, oh. Oh yeah. They were doing all sorts of interesting shit with that show. They were like embodying chairs and some interesting things going on there.

[9:40] Brian Sedita: Yeah, yeah.

[9:41] Mary Dina: Sounds very meta. Sounds right. How did you get into like how was movement first introduced to you and your career? Like how are you able to kind of build that into who you are?

[9:54] Mercedes Murphy: Complete Midwestern naivety, to be completely honest. I'm from Missouri and I got into NYU and I wanted to go to experimental theater wing because it sounded badass. And then I went there and it was really like heavily dance focused. I was completely the wrong match for me in terms of studios, which was a blessing. And I think, you know, I worked with Mary Overly and Bogart, Wendell Beavers, Steve Warren.

[10:25] Brian Sedita: Oh, so you stayed, even though you specifically wasn't a match, you actually like kept the program.

[10:30] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah.

[10:30] Brian Sedita: Oh, that's awesome.

[10:31] Mercedes Murphy: It really because what happened is through that movement, you have such a physical experience, you get a really clear understanding of your artistic voice. You know, I think people think an artistic voice is something way more lyrical and poetic, you know, where it really is like I I've it and it also mimics my artistic voice, I think mimics my artistic process, where like the beginning of any process, I think I know it all, and I like am all hustle and bustle and entitled, and then all of a sudden, as soon as reality hits, like the first rehearsal, I am panicked and terrified and hate everything. And I go through this like period of hate for like a couple of weeks. No one knows I'm hating it because I have the Midwestern thing down, but there's a part where without that physical part of the process, I don't feel I would be able to like attack the work the same way, you know.

Like I have to wear myself out and wear my sort of all the self-criticism, all the sort of pricklies around, oh my gosh, that person came late, they don't like this show, or that person thinks they should be cast for that, or you know, this person's in the room and they gave this amount of money, all those dumb little competing voices in your head. The only way I can quiet them is through wearing myself out. So I can laser focus in on what it really feels like to be in the room with these people talking about this event, you know.

[12:05] Mary Dina: Where did your world of or your interest in directing and your interest in movement kind of collide? Do you remember a specific point in your career or your training where you said, you know, this is going to be that sort of thing that I use in my process?

[12:21] Mercedes Murphy: I think it has always been a part of me. Otherwise, I I'm for me, it just gets too precious, you know. And the problem is I I'm probably one of the most sentimental and sort of like mama bear type people. So when it becomes precious, it becomes so annoying and shitty and like bad, made for TV after school special crap. You know, there's nothing like edgy, you're not inviting the audience in in any way, and it's super self-indulgent, and you're just patting yourself on the back, even if you make a good theatrical choice, you know. So there's a part where for me, I think the physicality that has become like the only way I can enter into anything is because I want to be physically present because emotionally I'm sort of pinballing around, you know.

And that's a combination of being, I think a good director sort of really tries to figure out every character's arc, and then you sort of figure out which arc you want to dial up on the dials, which arc you want to dial down, and you sort of think of yourself more like a sound mixer, you know. But in order to do that really well, I think you have to have a stillness and a quiet. And I just haven't found it any other way except to physically exhaust. And also I feel like I don't know how to not do ensemble work. I'm one of eight originally, so I've always born into an ensemble. And so there's a part where I need the group. And so a way to get going with the group is the circle, you know. And so we'll do, and I had said this earlier, but like the grid work, which is a combination of like Mary Overly's viewpoints and Anne Bogart's viewpoints. And now my own sort of evolution.

[14:18] Mercedes Murphy: It's I've come to what I call my version of grid work is where after we do the circle and we're like physically drenched. I'm like my hot pink Irish skinned self. And the actors are wondering why the director is chasing them around the room. We start to just get on a grid and only have one option, which is right angle turns. And just the beauty of like the economy of choice of just having to turn and then actually interact and exchange with other people in the room. You start to realize they're probably, I've said this all the time in all my classes. There's really only one story. A meets B, A loses B, A gets B back, A loses B forever. So all of a sudden you realize like what you're there for is actually what's going on in your life.

You know, like we could read any play right now and be like, oh my God, this could not be done any other time except this fucked up time we're living in. I mean, the fact that I feel like somehow Three Sisters is like has to be done right now. I've been stuck in this house forever, you know, and like Moscow has been Manhattan, Moscow has been away from my children, Moscow has been into a theater, Moscow has been in a circle. Like this idea of nostalgia and homesickness becomes amazing, and homesickness takes on a whole different definition. And like the only way I could think about entering into that is walking around, only making right angles and being forced to confront that feeling I have brought to rehearsal again and again, and find that one little sanctuary of a turn into someone else and be like, oh my God, I could lean into that person, or oh my God, I could slap that person, you know.

And then you have your like four events A met B, A lost B, A got B back, A loses B forever. But it all happens just on the grid with right angles. Only after you're so exhausted, you're only left with your dirty stinking self and the other people in the room. After you've been at home for seven months, can't go out. Right. You can't go out. You're so sick of all the fees that DoorDash charges. We're ready to go. Let me in, coach. Um, so I mean, there's so much vivid storytelling. So even though this is just an you know, an audio medium that we're we're talking in right now, there's so much uh so many visuals that I hope that our listeners are able to grab from what you were just saying, as I've been able to do throughout that. So I'm wondering how you approach a script as a director and utilize your movement background.

[16:46] Mercedes Murphy: So the movement is like my sort of life jacket, my like buoy, my you know, lighthouse, because I do the exact opposite of movement for like weeks to months before a show starts. I find every translation, any adaptation. I normally do Greek or sometimes like a little bit of no. I like old dead guys, Samuel Beckett, Samuel Beckett. Like, if they're alive, I don't want to be with them. Because then it's their work, you know, and I'm not, I don't consider myself a writer, but maybe like uh, you know, a divisor. And so I will find every possible book ever written on it. If there's a book about how a ghost enters a state, like on stage in a Euripidean tragedy, I am on that white on rice to the point where it's annoying to be like, oh, oh, the Persians that happened during the Archimeditive period.

That's amazing. Yes. So many incredible things. Like no one in the theater cares. Especially because I don't really do sort of um time period type work. I really sort of contextualize it in either a very specific event in history or an event I wish happened, like a revisionist history. Um then I'll fall down the rabbit hole of learning about that event in history. Um I feel like, and this is where it becomes very political for me, but I think about like where were the black people? Where were the LGBTQX people? Like, like where were all where were all my people and how do they fit into this show? And then sometimes I find it and it's really obvious. And then sometimes I just sit and cross my fingers during like the audition process that like that dream date comes into the room, and everyone else is like, what the fuck are you thinking?

Even having that person read, like not the right age, not the right gender, that like I'm like, no, this person knows winning. This person knows fighting, this person knows losing, whatever it is. But somehow I feel like that core connection is there. Um, I'll do that. But otherwise, I'm pickling myself. I like fall down anytime I lose my mojo, I go into YouTube and I like I call it like the spank file. Like I literally will just watch amazing choreography, like peanut baush, you know. I will walk I will find whatever beautiful like movement. Like for a long time, um, like during the Persians, because we had a really big cast, I was really into um in Japan, they have these walking competitions, like speed walking, like and they walk in different formations, and it's about like 300 people in a squad walking and making formations.

It's like the sort of like a marching band, but it's the precision, like all of a sudden they make a diagonal line out of nowhere, and it is my heart leaps. Like it's just so visually visually amazing, and it's you know, or like it's the same as the rockets, you know. I'm a sucker for like a bunch of people making a line. Um, but I will do that, and then I feel like I've known like I know the whole show. I break it down sort of act by act, scene by scene. I ask if there are any scenes I can get rid of, any acts I can get rid of. Um, and normally I fallen in love with all of them at that point. So I'm very precious and I'm afraid to what I call kill the baby, so I keep it all. And then I go through beat by beat by beat for each character, and I do all the paperwork of like what's their objective?

What if you had to say this sort of event for them in one sentence? What was it? What is the arc, like the emotional arc from timid uh flirting to savage sodomy, like whatever, you know, like whatever, like there's an emotional arc. Uh then I try to think of forward motion, which I think is the best one. It's sort of like the more he looks at me, the more I want to kiss him. So there's sort of this, you know, direct correlation of like if this character does something, it'll affect me this this way. Um, I'm trying to think of other paper. I do loads of paperwork. I have a big black sketchbook that I write all these different things on, and they're all these weird bubbles, and it looks sort of like a strange like Ted Gazinski type unibomber thing that makes no sense.

My writing is awful. Um, and then I take it like shivering to auditions, hoping like all my boyfriends and girlfriends will show up and like they all want to play, and they all don't, I don't scare them. And then we start like talking to like designers and stuff, and again, I get like completely overwhelmed and nervous, thinking like shit, they're gonna think this is a wall crazy idea. And then we start rehearsal, and for the first two days, I pretend to be normal and have table talk, and then I ask everyone to dress for movement, and the shit hits the fan.

[22:11] Mercedes Murphy: So when you get in the room with the actors and you start to to go through and do all the tablework, do the beats that you wrote down months or weeks prior, do they change? It all gets thrown out within the first like 30 minutes. Like some of it comes back at the end, but honestly, like I find it the most valuable thing is to like make an entire playbook and then never use it, and then sit in the room and have someone else sort of pick their beats and then because it always ends up like after you've been physically exhausted or you've done because we do things 200, 300, 400 times, and then we get really granular of like, okay. So now if you could sit forward, okay, wait, if you could sit forward with both your feet on the floor, but when you sit forward, could you put your head in your hands?

And I do that. I'm like, okay, now what's your version of that? Or sometimes some someone else be like, you know what I was thinking? What if I was on the floor? You know, and they're like, okay, let's do that. But how do we get you to the floor? And bit by bit by bit we will do a scene. And so whatever I imagine to the point where I have little like stick figure drawings in the bubble with like really shitty tables and really weird sort of like, you know, like platforms and whatever the set is, and they it just looks weird, like these little stick figures. Like none of it really happens that way. You know, and that's the that's my favorite thing about theaters, like every time you go, someone else comes and it's like they brought a surprise, you know, and so you have all these ideas, and sometimes they work and you can throw them in and be like, okay, I have an idea, we let's try this, and it'll work.

But otherwise, someone else might come and have a completely and it could take you in a completely wrong direction. And I am one of those people that am happy to do that. Um, I think it pisses people off sometimes. But I feel like it's like in I call it like in the soup, you know? Like you don't taste all the onions, but they're there. Um, and so there's it like sort of you're building in layers, you some of the work only the only the cast will know about, you know, and like so the beats could change a lot.

[24:32] Mercedes Murphy: And um well, how far, how far in the quote unquote wrong direction do you go until you're like, okay, this is clearly not working? Like, are you able to identify immediately that it's not working? Um, no, sometimes I know I'm this is an exercise in being a a good mama, you know. Um, and that's why they have like union breaks. Um, because everyone starts to feel it, but there's something about letting everyone else feel it too, because the same way you feel that's not working, you can feel when it does work. You know, there's like two sides to that feeling. Or even if, you know, a lot of times, even in like just a normal, not devised play with with a script and everything, you're gonna cut as an actor, you're gonna come up with a lot of your backstory that may never actually get put on stage, you know. So it's like you're filling that sort of, I know you would call it a container, you're filling your container with all this stuff so that it's there and you can have that full performance.

[25:34] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah. I think that that's the thing that um the more work you do, um you're not doing the work for it to show up on stage. You know, you're not gonna be able to point to a moment be like, oh, you know what? I think that she's read all of the poetics. I think she I think she crushes the poetics, she knows all about the unity of time, baby. No, it's about like it's dedication. Like, not like I'm a hard worker, it's I am dedicating myself. And that's where all the beauty and the surprises and everyone will be like, where did you guys find that one moment? We're like, how could we not? We looked under every rock in the forest. How could we not? And that's what, like, so Brian earlier like just said, like the container thing.

So, like, a lot of times, like, we'll sort of talk about like the substance and the cover, you know, and you can think of that content, like that cover being like a container, you know. And I think that's where we start to find um really exciting performances is where we realize we don't have to really share anything with the audience. Like every audience, we've all had all the like experiences we've ever had to have in high school, like honestly. Like we've been betrayed, we've had like had our like our hearts open, like cracked wide open, we've been disappointed, we've you know, had like some huge like wins, like everything is already there. So you don't have to really be very illustrative or heavy-handed because the text is there and the people are in the room.

[27:15] Mercedes Murphy: So, like, I really like I creep out actors sometimes because they're like, Well, it says you're supposed to cry here. I'm like, first of all, you should have cut all those stage directions the first day of rehearsal, and also that doesn't that's not how it works, like like that's for the audience to decide, you know, that like their experience is always gonna trump that. And if you have a strong enough container, you can really hold it back until the right moment, you know, and so that's another reason why the physicality is so important because to actually like, I mean, everyone like has had a really um awful, stressful event in their life where they just felt so fatigued that they couldn't hold it together, and they know the exact moment they broke, you know, and someone's like, How are you doing?

And it was the wrong person with the right question at the wrong time, and you just lose it. Because physically you can't sustain that level of keeping it together, you know, but most of theater should be about keeping it together to honor those moments. You know, that's why I love the idea of containers and I love the idea of like developing a physical stamina because like it should feel like real life. And if you think about the stakes of any really good show, that's fucked up that you can't tell anyone that you killed your mother, you know, like whatever it is.

[28:38] Mercedes Murphy: Like that is an exhausting secret. So it like physically you have to be able to mimic that because I think it's much safer than trying to do that emotionally. I think that's yeah people get really reckless and sort of will I like I call it like emotional masturbation. Well they will imagine something and do like what ifs like and it it can work especially for most good actors because they're very empathetic but that's dangerous. That's not the way we should like yeah especially if you're trying to like recreate that several times a week or however long the running you're gonna burn it out. It's like it's gonna be like ah fuck it she's dead I feel better. Find another one.

[29:20] Mary Dina: Can I ask you about your relationship with a dramaturg? I'm fascinated by I mean I'm just fascinated in general with like the research that any any of us do to put together like a piece of art but I what you've described as your process I feel like it ties very closely to what traditionally I don't even know if I want to use that word but what a dramaturg would be doing so I'm curious as to how you if you work with a dramaturg and how that relationship works.

[29:48] Mercedes Murphy: Yes, totally. Um I rely heavily um at two different at the beginning and the end. So at the beginning, all the research, you know, I I don't find any normally I always find the weirdest thing first. You know, where like there are a lot of directors will have like a much more sort of um traditional approach where they'll go to Lincoln Center, watch the tape, see see what like other performances have been like, sort of, you know, just studying sort of other versions of the show. Um I sort of find one thing that I love about a show and sort of go in that direction and then the whole time try to like break up with the with the idea. And so dramaturges help a lot because sometimes um they're able to help me articulate something that I didn't know I was on to.

You know, I sort of try to always enter into things being very sort of um naive. I sort of call it like unlearning things like not you know just sort of a blank slate. And so there are times where a dramaturg can gently sort of remind me that like yeah this is actually pretty normal. This is just called catharsis. Um and also there are times when I I want to fall down the rabbit hole of like studying some sort of really weird idiosyncratic um sort of theatrical convention and I will need a dramaturg to help me with the work of just sort of the historical context I want to put it in and sort of finding out any because that that's where you find the little gyms and like those special moments where, you know, because that's the other I always want to assume that the audience is smarter than me.

And that they're you know, their understanding of the play and also just their like basic understanding of wherever this play is placed in historical context, they're gonna know they're gonna they're gonna look for Easter eggs, and so like the dramaturg I rely on for Easter eggs. So we do a lot of that at the beginning because then we try to get all the other sort of members of the production, like designers, actors, excited about that idea that like we're making this special sort of jeweled faceted little box for the audience, and how many different things can we make to find so an audience can have a totally different experience based upon the other people in the audience, or based upon how they enter into the show, or based upon like I mean, like right now, like just based upon like the news cycle.

You could watch a show one day and it could be a tragedy. The next day it could be a comedy if you do it well enough, you know, if there are enough Easter eggs where it feels like you know, maybe ironic or prophetic or heartbreaking. Um, so dramaturgs are super duper critical, and then at the end, they're like, I always invite someone that I feel um really competitive with to see of the show and like see what they say because I I can feel if they like it or not, and then I I have a a dramaturg so we can cut the shit out of it because I think that my work best like best works at 90 minutes, like no intermission and really fast, and just like almost trying to get the audience to physically feel what the circle would be like where you just can't let them go.

Don't give them a chance to go. Just don't give them a chance to go, and not not because like they're gonna run the from the theater screaming because, like, what the fuck is this theater? But like it's just you don't want it has to be unrelenting.

[33:30] Brian Sedita: The momentum too.

[33:31] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah. A lot of yeah a lot of the work that I've seen you do is is very momentum driven I think.

[33:37] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[33:38] Mercedes Murphy: And you'd lose a lot of that with that break in between.

[33:41] Brian Sedita: Yeah no I think it also like you a lot of theater I mean contemporary theater recently is very 90 minutes packages, you know?

[33:50] Mercedes Murphy: Well I think we don't have the stamina anymore, but I also think there's a part where we're making a different type of theater. And so there's a part where that type of we're sort of or I don't know for me and the the work that I've really enjoyed watching as an audience member it has a sort of a sustained energy level that can't last and then you can't you don't want to pick it up again. If you're given a break you don't want to be forced to like do hard investigations you know or be put in uncomfortable like sort of situations as an audience member. You know you sort of want the second half to be more like singing in the rain like and so like the dramaturg for me really helps figure out because I always end up having like three quarters of the show done and the actors are terrified and we have like two days before tech and everyone’s like how is this gonna happen?

Like it'll happen. Just believe it'll happen. And it happens through sort of carving through the front part and realizing maybe we can just sort of backload some of those things and steal sometimes we actually, we'll steal physical staging and put it in the last part, realize we were sort of like shooting our wad too early. Or sometimes we'll do it again because it was worth it. Or sometimes we'll realize maybe we need stillness. But we almost finish finish. I always finish the show by shortening and tightening up the first third of the show. Cause I really believe as a director, and like the most important thing is the beginning and the end. Like the audience, like the like that is what they remember most.

And there have been shows that were so shitty but had amazing openings and amazing final events. That there's a part where I like to, I hope I do a good enough job throughout that I'm not just relying on two little bookends to call it a theatrical piece. But I think that that beginning and end is another thing that the dramaturg always helps me with, and they'll be like, uh, this is really gimmicky. This is really stupid. And I'll be like okay, I was lying to myself. Because the problem is really like the circle also can engender this like loyalty to like just collaboration, you know? And so you'd need the dramaturg to help sort of be like a second director and be like, cut it. You know, like that'll just be in the soup. Like those are just more onions for the soup. You know. Um, yeah. So dramaturg's I don't know, I don't know how people don't have dramaturges.

[36:28] Mary Dina: I'm wondering where you see the use of movement in contemporary or and specifically commercial contemporary theater. And if you see a use for I've noticed, and maybe it's just that thing of like once you're introduced to something, you notice it more.

[36:46] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah. I mean, I've noticed a lot of commercial theatrical productions, even on Broadway, utilizing a lot of movement in their storytelling.

[36:55] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[36:56] Mercedes Murphy: I well, I think it's a product of two things. Um, I think that we all have like it I used to pride myself on having like really edgy music selections. That's gone. Like everyone can find the same. You have the bet you had the best playlist. No, but like that needle in the haystack, like sort of feather in your cap thing is gone. Um, you know, it yeah, I I think and everyone has like, you know, like Shazam. I know it now too, bitch. Um, but like I think it's the you know, the ubiquitous sort of flattening of sources a little bit, but then I also think it maybe like the other way to say that is like it's just like there are more people watching and they're coming from different places. The same reason why like action movies sell out and are blockbusters because like it transcends language.

And I think we are a very like TikTok has made us very visual. I see it everywhere, I see it all the time. Like that's the thing one of the things I miss the most is walking around midtown Manhattan on the grid and no one would know it, like being like, oh my gosh, we're doing such a great floor pattern, and they don't know it. Um I miss like those like lovely little exchanges, but I do feel like it's and I actually see it a lot in sort of um like web-based series as well. Where I think that there's um, like I just watched with my my children Star Girl. I mean it's like a Disney Plus movie. It's but it's like Disney's crushing their like physical theater game now.

[38:29] Mary Dina: How so?

[38:30] Mercedes Murphy: Um they so it's the story is Star Girl. It's actually cute. It's some girl that was in um America's Got Talent, and um she's just like really unique and idiosyncratic on her own as an artist, has a really great gravelly girl voice, but they cast her as this sort of um outsider that comes into a sleepy town and wakes it up. But she has this her love interest thinks she's magic. And so she starts going to the football games and singing cover songs during the halftime show. And the half like the halftime show become more and more physically driven. So like it's like if you think of like American Utopia, David Burns, Physicat, like and like it's happening. It's happening at Disney Plus. It's happening everywhere.

And I think it's um it has to do with there's also I think people who have like I don't know, or at least like-minded people are so sick of everything's on repeat, uh, except it just gets exponentially worse and more horrific and shitty. So somehow just doing something physically feels like a little island of quiet and like a nice way to communicate some type of, you know, sort of um, either if it's like a rising action or you know, like just in terms of thinking of like a script, like somehow sometimes right now, like maybe we don't even need to talk because we're all so on the same page that we don't want the words to divide us, and that physicality feels very unifying and and um energizing.

[40:10] Brian Sedita: Yeah, I was I was thinking, I was gonna ask, do you think that it's a purposeful plan or objective in in the Disney Plus model that you just talked about? That star girl, where that was like a purposeful action, or do you think that it's become so like what you said, like the TikTok society now is kind of just like ingrained in us without us even realizing.

[40:31] Mercedes Murphy: So Mandy Moore choreographed all the the halftime shows. So I think it's just the the choreographers that are coming up now are products of that, like Ryan Effington, you know, like they're so like they're products of YouTube of TikTok, and so that is how we have those worlds collide, you know, like Disney and awesome weird movement-based, you know, covers of Be True to Your School, um, on a ukulele with like a big bass drum and a hot sort of like flume sounding horn section. But I think that is like there's a part where I'm very excited about that, and then sometimes I'm like, okay, maybe I can retire. Like my work here is done. You all do movement. Um, but I think it's really like a product of our time.

I think that we're um maybe hopefully it's um a sign that like everything's becoming a little more um equitable and like there's sort of like a universal language that can happen once that happens. That's like my hope that like you know, it's like a code for like this is a good place to be, and we like making fucked up shit, you know. Or uh in Disney's case, sweet idiosyncratic stuff.

[41:47] Mercedes Murphy: Um, a couple of years ago you decided to leave MSU as an adjunct. I'm wondering what made you not necessarily leave that particular school because there were probably reasons there, but uh just you know, uh transitioning into something a little different for a for lack of a better word, like a civilian job.

[42:08] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah, um, mostly it was health health insurance, to be honest. Um, and then I had before I've always taught like since since graduate school and I love it. I find it in like essential to my creative process actually. Um but there I just sort of the all the different competing needs for my time, I realized I was losing why I was teaching. Like I like the engine was sort of getting tapped out. So it's funny because now I find myself in the middle of pandemic where I have loads to do and I'm stuck in my room. Um but so I've ch I think it's now I'm really happy doing maybe one show maybe every two years and when it feels like the moment is right.

[42:59] Mercedes Murphy: Um just uh I I don't know. I I that's my new cycle, you know.

[43:07] Mary Dina: Right, yeah.

[43:08] Mercedes Murphy: That's that's kind of what I was trying to get at. It's like what's your relationship now to the theater and uh where does that, you know, like sit in your um it's two different ways your world.

[43:18] Mercedes Murphy: Yeah, I it it I'm I think that like for a long time I did device theater because I didn't have the discipline or the confidence to write. And so now I have like lots of writing and I realize why I didn't have the confidence because it's it's just so there's so much to go through. Like for me, my process is like just generation, generation, generation. So now like the next step is like editing, which is going to be interesting. I'll keep you posted.

[43:48] Mercedes Murphy: Um, and then the other sort of side of that is like I s I see like almost like um uh like a like a peace corp mission. Like I feel like this is essential work for everyone right now. Like connection and like being I I see it, um people are people this is in m the movement. No, like my like the this approach, what what this not necessarily movement, but what you're doing, where the product of it, the product of it being um being willing to listen longer, being willing to be wrong, being willing to change your mind, trusting your work enough, knowing that you don't have to have it stick the first day of whatever you're doing. You know, it's sort of um realizing whatever you're working on, what and it could be either theater, it could be uh, you know, uh you could be, you know, a litigator, you could be uh sort of a legislator, you could whatever you are.

[45:04] Mercedes Murphy: I feel like theater, that approach of what I said before, being kind to yourself, being kind to others, willing to be wrong, like sticking it through when it gets uncomfortable. You know, it like it I think it would serve everyone really well. And so I do enjoy bringing that into like other settings. I d I am so sad to have it be such a breath of fresh air for so many people to say I was totally off base, I had no idea what you're talking about, and I just started talking. I'm so sorry. And people are like, What? Like, like, but like that, like though I often had students come up and be like, I don't I don't know if I should do theater. I'm terrified, I I'm not comfortable with it. I think I should drop out of the program. And I think their parents might have hated me. I'm like, you have to stick in the program. They're like, Why? I'm like, because you won't do theater, but you will take this training with you out into the world.

[46:03] Mercedes Murphy: I mean, you kind of did that yourself. I've done it again and again. I've had so many different jobs. And I think that's also one of the reasons why I end up doing the type theater I do, because if you if you've been in a multiple different sort of uncomfortable situations and had to sort of start again and again, you realize that like although starting sucks and I really hate it. Like the first, like leading up to rehearsal, the first days of rehearsal and the first rehearsal, like I hate it. And it takes every ounce of me to be like upbeat and positive. I just sort of feel like it just it's just dirty and having to get started and everyone's fake and we're all like proving each other like proving things to each other. So annoying, and I like want to get straight to it, but if you rush it, it's like you're a cheap date. It doesn't work. They never call you back. You know, like it doesn't work.

[47:02] Mercedes Murphy: So I mean, that's a long but I really feel like so like my life in terms of like theatrical life and sort of outside of theater professional life, and like it's always been a weird ebb and flow. Um, but I think that they're both essential to each other because the longer I'm outside of it this time, the more I know the next couple things I have to do have to be almost like I call it for like my 12-year old self that like knew I should be doing this, you know. And be like, don't worry, girl, we're like we're gonna get this one. Um and then I also feel like in all the other settings, I do believe that any person who is worth their salt in making good theater makes every place they go better, you know, because they bring their whole selves to everything, and people can't not do that. You know, like people like if I show up and I'm ready to work and like the other douchebag and this like WebEx sort of is like they get they feel it. They feel like they're not present, you know.

[48:07] Mercedes Murphy: And that idea of being present is like the best thing that anyone can do right now, you know. I just want to share a quote and if you have a response to it, feel free.

[48:18] Mary Dina: Awesome.

[48:19] Mercedes Murphy: So the quote that I chose is from Arthur Miller and he says, The theater is so endlessly fascinating because it's so accidental. It's so much like life.

[48:31] Mary Dina: Yeah.

[48:32] Mercedes Murphy: I hope like if you do it right, it all should look like an accident. Like I yeah, so like this is different, but this is sort of what I tell all my actors like when we're like somewhere that everyone hears about the white van. Um I that was on my list of questions and we and then like I just passed it. This is my fantasy. So it's sort of like my version of the accident. But like I sort of feel like theater i is required, essential. Like the the same way, like everyone needs to do a certain amount of physical activity, and you need to put the right food in your body, and you should read certain things and vote for certain people, whatever. Um, I feel like everyone should have to do theater.

[49:15] Mercedes Murphy: So I have this fantasy that I have a white van that probably has a very large carbon footprint and like sputters and backfires is like a really a kidnapper van. And I pull up to different people's houses, but it's like literally pedal to the metal, probably 60 60 miles per hour to like a screeching halt, like burnt tires, and I literally run in there like I'm like storming their house, and I kidnap them, I put a sack on their back, like their head, throw them in the back of the car, and I get the whole cast that way. And then I load them up and like we zip over to theater, I crash into the loading dock, the car is completely totaled, and I push them on stage, and then they all of a sudden find themselves disoriented, fearful, scared, but strangely feeling this strange need to be in this room with these people right now telling this story.

[50:08] Mercedes Murphy: So there's a part where like it should feel like a surprise for the actor too, like nothing is guaranteed. So maybe it's sort of like that like accidental idea. But I I want it to be that level of surprise and excitement that like it, you know, it's I really think of theater, like every time we get to a like a preview or when we open up, I everyone like this is like my wedding day. And it's because you sort of play on your whole wedding and you for or you don't forget, but you don't think about all the people that are gonna be there. And so you're thinking of like all the you know, the details, the flowers, the dress, whatever, whatever. And then all of a sudden you go there and these people are here, and it's the most overwhelming moving thing in the world to think that people showed up because it's this is important to them.

[50:59] Mercedes Murphy: And I always want every actor on stage to have that moment. Because I talk about breaking the third wall a lot, the fourth wall a lot. And it's like I want them for a moment to feel the responsibility and the just like loving connection of oh my god, you guys want to see this shit? Holy fuck. Let's do this. That ride here was fucked up. Let's get going. You know? And like I think the audience feels it. I think that one by one, an audience be like, I feel like they just they just like connected. They just got me.

[51:39] Mercedes Murphy: Like they just like sucked me in there, you know? And somehow for me, like the idea of like the accident, um, it is very purposeful, is pretty staged. Um, it's a very sturdy container that then hopefully the audience starts to fill up, you know?

[51:59] Mary Dina: Yeah.

[51:59] Mercedes Murphy: Oh, I'm so glad we we got to the white pan.

[52:03] Mary Dina: It's idling outside your house now.

[52:08] Brian Sedita: Mira, you want to kick us off with our lightning round?

[52:11] Mary Dina: Yeah.

[52:11] Brian Sedita: So these questions we just ask uh in lightning round fashion. We're not necessarily going to respond, although sometimes I want to respond, and O'Brien also too. But we really tried to just go from one question to the next.

[52:23] Mary Dina: Okay, and I'm answering all the questions.

[52:25] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[52:26] Mary Dina: Okay.

[52:27] Brian Sedita: The first one, my favorite one. What is one thing in the theater industry that confuses you?

[52:32] Mercedes Murphy: Why they're not more female directors.

[52:34] Brian Sedita: What are three adjectives that describe your favorite working environment?

[52:39] Mercedes Murphy: Hot, loud and fast.

[52:41] Brian Sedita: Is there something in your process that you find unique to you?

[52:44] Mercedes Murphy: Um, how um strong and like rattling it is and how scared and overwhelmed I am that whole time.

[52:53] Brian Sedita: What's your favorite yoga pose?

[52:55] Mercedes Murphy: Um, probably the crow just because I'm a show off.

[52:58] Mary Dina: Me too.

[53:01] Mercedes Murphy: Once you master the crow, it's just you feel so proud. Such a badass like crow into like headstand into plank, something really fucked up.

[53:13] Brian Sedita: What is one hobby you have outside of theater?

[53:16] Mercedes Murphy: So I'm a hardcore roller skater. And like my basement has become like a roller rank. Like all my kids can shoot the duck. Like the pandemic, we've really refined our skating skills.

[53:30] Mary Dina: I love that.

[53:32] Brian Sedita: What is the scariest moment you have as a director?

[53:36] Mercedes Murphy: The like first night of rehearsal.

[53:38] Brian Sedita: Do you have any particular um scary moments?

[53:42] Mercedes Murphy: Um, oh no, well, like a specific um not like I've had scary moments that I've been watching. There have been a couple times where like I am as as physical as I am, and I really do like to do things that are physically rigorous and are alarming for the audience. Um I also want to I want my actors to be completely safe to the point where if I can't do it, or if it if they can't do it, like repeat it safely again and again, it's not worth like I'm not comfortable with that.

[54:17] Mercedes Murphy: And there have been a couple shows that I've seen that even before the show started, I'd notice a set piece and be like, that's not gonna work. Someone's gonna get hurt, and then be in the front row when someone breaks their leg. And that I hate, I hate that. I hate like the whole Spider-Man thing. Uh like I just don't think you can be badass. I feel like we've pushed like the physical envelope so far now, with especially like sort of like any sort of fly work and stuff like that. But as soon as it's not safe, it's just not cool because you lose audience, you know.

[54:50] Mercedes Murphy: Like there are the audience can sense it, and then they're scared and they're immediately pulled out of the scene, the story.

[54:56] Brian Sedita: Yeah, they're totally popped out.

[54:57] Mercedes Murphy: You have to like walk the edge, but as soon as you cross the line, it's just uh it's you're an asshole.

[55:03] Brian Sedita: I feel like this is a love letter to something.

[55:08] Mercedes Murphy: I don't know.

[55:09] Brian Sedita: Uh what and this is our final question that we always ask our guests what was the last great piece of theater that you saw?

[55:17] Mercedes Murphy: Um, well, I saw two pieces that have stuck with me for a long time. The streb piece uh at um Peak Performances. I loved that with the Bogart combo. Um, and then you know, the David Byrne piece that now is being you know, like spikely filmed, so it's coming out soon.

[55:35] Brian Sedita: Did you see that on Broadway?

[55:36] Mercedes Murphy: No, I saw it actually at um Forest Green, Forest Hills, whatever the tennis place is in Queens. I saw it years before it happened.

[55:46] Mercedes Murphy: And it is so Annie B who choreographed that is one of my teachers, so I sort of always track her. But um, that is one of the things I'm so jealous of because I've always wanted David Byrne to be like my guy and to be this the sh they want to do his show. So a little jelly. But uh it's she nailed it. Um both of those are really physical, you know.

[56:10] Mary Dina: Yeah.

[56:11] Brian Sedita: Uh thank you so much.

[56:13] Mary Dina: This was such a joy to have you on.

[56:15] Mercedes Murphy: I know.

[56:16] Brian Sedita: It was so nice to meet you.

[56:17] Mercedes Murphy: I like meeting you too.

[56:19] Mary Dina: Is there any way that our listeners can, you know, find you on social media? Do you have any public profiles or no?

[56:27] Mercedes Murphy: No, no, you gotta be in the theatrical at all. You gotta leave no trace. You gotta like dump the fan in a lake, man. Take off the plates. No one can know who you are.

[56:39] Mary Dina: I love it.

[56:40] Mercedes Murphy: That's the magic.

[56:43] Mary Dina: I really just wanna do a circle now.

[56:47] Brian Sedita: Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of Page to Stage.

[56:51] Mary Dina: To keep up with us, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Page2Stage Podcast.

[56:55] Brian Sedita: And if you're enjoying these conversations, we would really appreciate it if you could take a couple minutes to rate and review us wherever you're listening to this podcast.

[57:03] Mary Dina: Until next time.

[57:04] Brian Sedita: That's Brian.

[57:05] Mary Dina: That's Mary.

[57:06] Brian Sedita: We'll see you later.

[57:07] Mary Dina: Bye.