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[0:00] Mason Bray: So we have Olivia Miller, who is the brilliant writer and star of "Bloody Mary: Live!" earning glowing reviews such as “Olivia Miller dazzles in this tart and punky solo show” from The Guardian. She also has performed across the U.S. in shows like "Little Shop of Horrors," "Tick Tick Boom," "Assassins," and so many more. I am so excited to talk with her about "Bloody Mary" and all of her career. Hi, Olivia.

[0:23] Olivia Miller: Hi Mason.

[0:24] Mason Bray: Thank you so much for having me.

[0:25] Olivia Miller: What a, what an introduction.

[0:27] Mason Bray: I'm beaming. I feel very important today.

[0:30] Olivia Miller: Well, thank you for being here.

[0:32] Mason Bray: Oh my gosh. I'm so happy to have you here.

[0:34] Olivia Miller: Oh yeah.

[0:35] Mason Bray: So can you start off by giving us a rundown on how you got to where you are in your career?

[0:40] Olivia Miller: Yeah. So, um, I was an English major in college, but I always knew that I wanted to be a performing artist. So after I graduated college, I went right into a master's in acting at Brown Trinity Rep. Um, and that's actually where I really got to, as I expected, hone a lot of my talents, um, and hone a lot of things that I hadn't really had a chance to work on yet. But that's also the place where I discovered a lot about myself. I'd never written anything theatrical before, and I did a lot more writing there, uh, by nature of the program. And so then I graduated in 2019, was feeling great, feeling ready to launch, and in a way we all found our way to launch through the pandemic. But, uh, I moved to New York in the summer of 2019, so I had a solid almost a year in a pandemic-less New York and, uh, have been navigating that ever since, uh, both in terms of a, you know, human place, but also in terms of an artistic place of just figuring out how one makes art and how one engages in art when external circumstances are very crazy.

[1:53] Mason Bray: Yeah. Um, so well, diving straight into "Bloody Mary," um, what prompted you to start the process of making the show and finding out about her story to tell audiences?

[2:05] Olivia Miller: Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, in my MFA program, in your last year, you are supposed to create a 20-minute solo performance, and you're given a lot of support throughout the year through playwriting classes, through physical workshop classes, through one-on-ones with your professors to make this happen. And, uh, it's typical for a person to create something entirely new. Um, sometimes it's autobiographical, sometimes it's a one-person play. And so going into my last year at Brown Trinity, I had always, I'd known that I'd always loved Tudor history. My mom, uh, really was a big fan of Tudor history, so I knew all about Henry VIII and his dead wives. And so over the summer, I decided that I was gonna write a musical about the six dead wives of Henry the Eighth.

And I wrote, um, I did a lot of research and I wrote one really bad song, and I showed up to my class, and I was like, here is my, here's the beginnings of my musical about the six dead wives of Henry the Eighth. And someone went, oh, you know that's, that already exists. It's called "Six," and it was at the Edinburgh Fringe this year. So, I mean, I did a lot of research, but I didn't research into whether or not it already existed, and so, uh, I didn't want to compete with that. I listened to the album and it was better than anything I could come up with for that. So I was like, you guys can have that. Um, love that musical. I think it's great. Um, but I had done a ton of research and I didn't want to throw it all away. So I went back to my notes.

[3:35] Olivia Miller: And I was struck by the fact that, you know, in all of this drama with Henry the Eighth's family, there's this figure, Mary Tudor, also known as Bloody Mary, um, who was almost a footnote. Um, it was, you know, a one-off mention of her, or if there was any mention of her, it was by her moniker, Bloody Mary, and there wasn't much information about that. And I thought that's so weird, you know. There's a lot of information about Elizabeth I, even though, you know, she's not one of the wives. But whenever they bring up Anne Boleyn, Elizabeth I comes up, and of course you hear about the Elizabethan era and Shakespeare and all this, but I found it odd that the eldest child of Henry the Eighth was basically a footnote.

So I started diving in there, and I know it sounds weird to sound like you have to say that you have a lot in common with someone who burned a lot of people at the stake, but I started to find a lot of common ground there. I'm also an oldest daughter. Um, I'm also, um, my parents are also divorced, and you know, Bloody Mary or Mary Tudor, she was the first child of like a very, very public divorce, and so I felt that common ground. Um, she was a very educated queen. She had had a lot of educational studies. Her mom really wanted her to be able to read and fought for her to be able to expand her educational boundaries. So there were a lot of things that I found really compelling about her, and I just, I kind of flew with it.

The, the it just really came out of me writing it. I thought it would be really fun to not necessarily rehab her image because what she did was terrible. But I was just, I was really compelled by the fact that she had so many things in common with me, and she has ended up so different from me, right? I haven't actually burned anyone at the stake or gotten to that point.

[5:29] Olivia Miller: And so not yet. There's a long, long life ahead of me, I suppose. But yeah, I just, I was really interested in how one goes from this place of dedicated, very devoted eldest child, kind of a golden child of that marriage, to being the face of a very, very public divorce, and then having years upon years of very difficult relationships with her stepmothers and with her father. And I just was really interested in exploring how one gets from this one point to burning people at the stake. So I thought comedy would be the best way to talk about this. So I framed it as a stand-up set. So in the play, Bloody Mary is doing stand-up to defend her legacy, and whether or not she does so successfully is up to the audience.

I don't have an agenda necessarily making the audience think that she's a good queen. I just think that it's important to have all the information before you make a full assessment. And I think it's important to have all the information about a person before you just slap a moniker on them and say, oh, yeah, she's the bloody one. There are a lot of bloody monarchs over the course of history, and she's the only one who has that nickname. So that's interesting to me. I just feel like we should interrogate that a little bit more. And maybe she sticks with the nickname, but maybe also we have some empathy for her in some regard.

[6:58] Mason Bray: Yeah. And taking on such a historical piece, um, and making it comedy, how much did you find yourself, um, getting drawn back because trying to stick to historical accuracy of it?

[7:12] Olivia Miller: Yeah, so that's, that's a really good question. Um, there are so, there are moments of the show where it was really important for me to have it be historically accurate. And then there were moments of the show where I decided that it was either better for the character to be lying. Like I, I would imagine that Mary is not happy about many of the things, and just as all we as humans sometimes will judge the truth to make ourselves feel better. I, I picked several moments where Mary is not being truthful, not just to the audience, but she's not being truthful to herself either. And that felt very important dramatically to me. And then there are definitely moments where there is no historical truth whatsoever.

There's this whole sequence about how she's in love with her tutor, Steven, who has tutored her in harpsichord and French and what have you, and how she has this massive crush on him. And that's, that's completely, completely fictionalized. And, but it serves a purpose, you know. It came out of wanting to talk about her education and how it's a real thing that she was extremely educated for a woman of that age. It came out of a place from wanting to talk about, um, all the arranged marriages she had and how they were not fulfilling and they were honestly kind of disgusting that, you know, she was a six-year-old betrothed to like a 32-year-old, and it's just so out of that I felt like there was a need to talk about someone who she really was dazzled by and really had a crush on, and there's not, there's not a historical record for that.

And so for me, that's where it's okay to let go of the history, and it's okay to let go of the fact because I'm not trying to present a historical record. I'm trying to present my interpretation of someone that I find very interesting and someone that I want to tell their story as authentically as possible, and sometimes in the pursuit of authenticity, you have to make something up.

[9:16] Olivia Miller: So I really wanted to get across that she was a normal girl who had normal feelings and normal desires, and to do that, I sometimes had to make stuff up. And sometimes my, my own life slips in there. There's a lot of truth in the, in some of the parts that are completely made up from the perspective of history, they're, they're not always made up from the perspective of the world. I've definitely inserted some things that have happened to me as, as placeholders, and, and that's kind of fun for me because there are moments where I feel like in a different timeline, this might be my version of stand-up of Olivia Miller doing stand-up about her life, but no one's ever gonna know that because I've blended Mary's history, bits of my history, and then completely made up things altogether in service of telling the story.

[10:09] Mason Bray: Yeah. And it is a one-woman show. Um, so in the process of writing it, how did you find yourself trying to, um, make people understand the scenes, but also realize that it's only you talking?

[10:24] Olivia Miller: Yeah, so that's a twofold, I have a twofold answer for you. Uh, one is I was very lucky to have the support of my program while I was writing this, and so when I was workshopping the 20-minute version of it, um, any, any time that something wasn't making sense or wasn't clear or left the audience behind, I had a professor who was very blunt about that and was like, what are you doing here? And sometimes I'd be like, I have no idea. Um, but then, uh, part of the form, the second part of this is I started building into the form of the play a lot of audience interaction. And so the play, there's multiple scripted parts of the play that will always be the same no matter what, no matter what show you come to.

But there's a significant chunk of the play, maybe 20, 25 minutes or so, uh, that is fully based on audience participation, where I, as Mary, will go into the audience and ask the audience questions. And sometimes I'll be like, did you get that? Do you understand what I'm talking about? And I'm really, I can be quite aggressive about that. Sometimes I'm asking, well, what was your first kiss like? My first kiss was so bad. What was your first kiss like? And I'm getting the audience to contribute their stories to the overarching play as well. And that has really helped keep people with the story, where you know, you might not necessarily be an expert in Tudor history, but that's actually not necessary to enter this play.

You just have to, I guess you just have to be an expert on what it is to be human, which is to have major loves and major losses, to experience intense failures, to have the worst argument of your life with your mom. These are all things that we've all experienced, and so there are many points in the play that I've built in conversation with the audience to get them on board in that regard of the human side of things, and then I'll give them the history. But at that point, they, they have a foundation to stand on, and it's, it's their own experience, it's their own worst first kiss, or it's, it's their own fight with their mom, or it's, uh, what are some of the other ones? It's, um, you know, you whatever trash television someone's into, watching "Love Island" or watching "The Bachelor."

Well, Mary didn't have that, so she really was kind of committed to Catholicism, and there's like some equivalency that you can make across these very different time periods if you come at it from the perspective of human need.

[12:50] Mason Bray: Yeah. And I love watching the clips that you have online from the show of you immediately starting off with asking, so whose parents are divorced? And going straight into it that way and getting them in it right from the first five seconds.

[13:04] Olivia Miller: Yeah, I, I find that's, that was, that was the opening for a really long time. I think that's been there for many versions of the show as, as I've workshopped the show and expanded it. And I just think that's really fun because it just completely sets the tone of, well, we're all gonna participate today, and we're all gonna talk about things that, not that divorce is taboo, but sometimes people are a bit cagey about whether or not their parents are on speaking terms, and it's, we're gonna clear the cobwebs, like whoever has a bad relationship with a bad divorce, raise your hand.

[13:35] Olivia Miller: And I think that's also part of the fun about the show is that the show is different every time based off of who's in the audience, and I think it's also nice that depending on the size of the audience, too. These shows can sometimes feel very much like a secret gathering where you know, everyone at that show has decided that they're all gonna share things, and it's cool that people share sometimes. People share really, really intense things about you know their parents' divorce or you know, their first kisses, or whatever it is, and they walk away from that knowing that they'll never see any of those people in the audience again, and they shared this moment, and the moment's not gonna be replicated ever.

It's a very unique situation that has been really fun for me to witness as I go from shows that are sold out with you know near a hundred people to shows I had a show once where it was literally four people, and that was so fun. We had such a great time, the five of us together. We got to know each other really, really well. But it's cool how the show can transform in that way, and it keeps me on my toes, and it also just, god, it makes me love theater. Theater's amazing the way that people open up in those kinds of spaces. It's just really exciting.

[14:52] Mason Bray: Yeah, and I imagine that feels so rewarding as a writer and a performer to see people opening up and trusting each other at your show.

[15:01] Olivia Miller: Yeah, yeah. That the word trust is really important, and I think, you know, I feel grateful that thus far I've been able to make to allow the audience to trust me and for me to trust the audience because I've yet to have an experience where someone went really rogue on me and tried to throw me off with a response. And I value that people are trustworthy in that regard, that I can trust the audience not to decide to make things difficult for me, and you know, vice versa. I'm grateful that when people volunteer their answers or tell me stories that they trust that I'm not gonna harm them with that, that it's only gonna be in service of this bigger picture about Mary and you know, teenage angst and growing up and coming to terms with really difficult life events. I'm grateful that people are comfortable enough to share their stories as I'm sharing Mary's.

[15:55] Mason Bray: Um, so you have a few performances coming up in the city. But what are some future plans for the show?

[16:02] Olivia Miller: Yeah, so I at the moment I'm in a pop-up mode. So every month you could probably expect to catch Mary somewhere in the city. I was doing the show at Club Coming before this month. This month I'm doing it at Pete's Candy Store on Friday the 8th of April and the Duplex on the 22nd of April. And so I would expect in May I don't have any concrete dates yet, but May, June, you'll probably see Mary in one or more of those spaces again as I just keep working on the show. But long term goals, the show was accepted to go to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2020. That didn't happen because of the pandemic. Last year we were very fortunate that the programmers who were going to bring us to the fringe in 2020 offered us a spot at another festival in England.

So I did get to do the show for 20 or so performances in England last year. But you know, the theater nerd in me, I gotta make it to Edinburgh, you know, so that's the first little big thing is that I would love to make it to Scotland and do the show there. And then, you know, long term I would love to be doing this show fully produced, fully supported at some kind of, I don't see it in a Broadway house because Broadway is maybe a bit too big for the intimacy that this show requires, but some really exciting off-Broadway house or, you know, off West End kind of situation. And I would love the show to get licensed. I think that, you know, it's a nice show to do in terms of the fact that it's an interesting story.

And I remember growing up in high school, there always seemed to be so many more roles for men in the school plays and everything, and I could imagine that this would be maybe not at a high school, but because of the not suitable for work situation. But I could imagine that licensing this show and seeing a lot of different versions of Bloody Mary pop up in collegiate settings and stuff like that would be really cool. I could see many Marys going along that isn't just me being Bloody Mary. I would love the role to be shared at some point with a lot of different productions with a lot of different actresses who are looking to take a bite out of something like this.

[18:36] Mason Bray: And um, so getting into my some of my last questions that I ask everyone, um, do you have any advice for people wanting to get into the industry?

[18:45] Olivia Miller: Yeah, I do. If you are not seeing an opportunity, you can make the opportunity. What I've really treasured about this show in particular is in a time when there was no work to be had because all the theaters were shuttered, I had this show that I could be working on. I was rewriting, I was doing more research. This show really kept me going in a time when there wasn't work to be had. And then now, as things have opened up a bit, and you know, I'm back auditioning for things, I feel like really grateful that there's one aspect of my career right now that I've total control over. If I want to do this show anywhere, anytime, I can. And that's a huge gift as an actor to be able to make a job for yourself.

And so my biggest advice is if you feel like you're not acting enough, if you feel like you're not getting seen for the things you want to be seen, make the thing that you want to be in. Make the thing that you want people to come to, and then do it literally wherever you want. Theater's happening all over the place. I just saw an amazing show like in the back of a vegan restaurant the other day. Like theater's happening everywhere. You can do it everywhere, anywhere you want. It's not for lack of space or opportunity. You can be the agent in charge of making that space and the opportunity for yourself. And if it scares you, get some friends to do it with you. It doesn't have to be a one-person show, it could be a two-person show even.

But it's just, it's so important to, especially in an industry that is this competitive and as we've learned, this subjective to the whims of public health, it's really important for artists to find something that they have total ownership over and that they feel that they can do that will sustain them. And for me, that has been working on this one-woman show, and that might be the case for someone else, and it might be a different version of performance for another person, but it's important to have that thing that keeps you going that you have creative control over.

[20:57] Mason Bray: That's amazing. Um I've asked this, and I wanted to ask you since you started working on this show in college, do you think that you prefer education or experience with how far it has pushed you in your career?

[21:11] Olivia Miller: Oh my god, Mason, what a question. Jeez. Okay, okay. I think for me, it was really important for me to get an education. At the time that I entered my MFA program, I could do some things really well, but I had no idea how to articulate what I was doing well or how to repeat it. I would have some performances that were amazing and then I wouldn't know why. And I would have some performances that weren't so amazing, and I also would not know why. And consistency is a big part of the arts industry, is being able to show up and deliver the same consistent, compelling product each time. And so for me, I really needed an education to sort that out. And I would also say that I needed more time in education to figure out the things that I really, really needed to say.

I had no idea that I really had a story to tell with Bloody Mary, and I wouldn't have told that story if I hadn't been in school. That said, with the way that the pandemic has shaken everything up, I have learned a lot just navigating the experience of putting up my show not entirely alone. I've been working with some very dear friends, and the company that I've been working with in the UK is called Part of the Night, and they're incredible. You should absolutely check them out. They put up shows that are written by women and non-binary people and trans folk who are historically not seen in nightlife spaces or feel safe in nightlife spaces, and their whole mission is to put marginalized voices and create spaces for these voices in places that aren't usually welcoming to them.

So I've been working with them, so it's not that I've been doing it entirely alone, but what I will say is there has been, you know, I've learned so much from just trying and failing, you know, just the cold emails to the different venues, the applications that have been rejected, these experiences that you don't get in school per se, where you are really just kind of pitching a show and then seeing what happens. I've learned a lot from that. But I do recognize that I wouldn't even be in that position without my education. So I think it's very different for different people. Some people have strengths that are much better served to diving into experience first. And I just know from my situation, I really needed my education first.

[23:55] Mason Bray: Um so after that pandemic, what was your first theater experience back, whether it be a Broadway show or whatever?

[24:04] Olivia Miller: Oh my gosh. Okay, so I have to say, so I'll start this with my last theater experience before the pandemic hit. I saw the second to last show of Beetlejuice. Back when I think an usher tested positive at six that week, so all the tickets were slashed, and I saw Beetlejuice, I think maybe for $20, like the second to last performance in the Winter Garden Theater. And that was so fun. I had the best time. It was amazing. I didn't know that was gonna be my last show, but that actually was like the most fun show to go out on. Had an amazing time. And then my first show back in theaters, it was when I was in England to do my show in August 2021. So I was there rehearsing my show, Bloody Mary. And my the director of Bloody Mary in the UK, Olivia Monk, she had been helping out with the West End production of Heathers.

And so I got to see, I think it was like the second to last performance of Heathers in the West End over the summer, and that was so fun. So I went, I went from one really, I think Beetlejuice could maybe be considered a cult classic at this point. I mean, had such a following that it's now revived already on Broadway. I went from that to another kind of cult classic situation where people were literally dressed up as the Heathers and as Veronica at this theater, and that was, gosh, that was a lot of fun too. I was so excited. So bookended by musicals, even though my show's not a musical, but bookended by musicals.

[25:50] Mason Bray: Perfect. Um, is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up?

[25:55] Olivia Miller: Uh, let me think. Yeah, I guess if you want to stay up to date with news about Bloody Mary, you can find the show on Instagram at Bloody Mary Live Show and on TikTok at that Olivia Miller. I'm also at that Olivia Miller on Instagram. At this point, the show and myself were a bit intertwined. So if you find me on one handle, you'll probably see Bloody Mary content no matter which way you go. But the show will be popping up in April in New York on the 8th and the 22nd. You can find information about that on the socials, and it'll keep popping up. So I hope it'll have a long run in its various nightclub spaces in New York before even bigger things happen.

[26:43] Mason Bray: Yeah. And I wish that I could make it to New York this weekend to see it.

[26:47] Olivia Miller: Um, but I can't.

[26:49] Mason Bray: That's sad.

[26:51] Olivia Miller: Anytime you're around, just check in because I'm not even kidding. It's like, um, what is the thing? Whack a mole. Like it literally keeps popping back up. So anytime you'll, you're more than welcome at the show.

[27:06] Mason Bray: Well, thank you so much for being here.