This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:11] Quincy Brown: My name's Quincy.

[0:12] Kevin Bianchi: My name's Kevin.

[0:13] Quincy Brown: And this is Sentimental Men.

[0:15] Kevin Bianchi: But keep your thumb away from that skip button.

[0:18] Quincy Brown: Because we're here to talk.

[0:20] Kevin Bianchi: And maybe scream.

[0:21] Quincy Brown: About our favourite women in musical theatre.

[0:30] Kevin Bianchi: Here we are on this fine Thursday night.

[0:35] Quincy Brown: Recording the intro and outro to Lucie Jones' episode.

[0:37] Kevin Bianchi: Guys, we had to do the interview at a different time because of time zones.

[0:42] Quincy Brown: And I feel like it's easier when we come clean about this kind of stuff.

[0:45] Kevin Bianchi: Because then there's no continuity issues.

[0:47] Quincy Brown: We can just talk and talk and do our thing.

[0:49] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[0:50] Quincy Brown: Is this the first time that we've talked to someone who's like currently doing the show?

[0:55] Kevin Bianchi: Our first like active current Elphaba.

[0:58] Quincy Brown: Because like obviously Lucie was the current Elphaba but she was not.

[1:02] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah yeah yeah.

[1:03] Quincy Brown: This is our first current active Elphaba.

[1:06] Kevin Bianchi: Which I think is pretty huge for Sentiment Pod.

[1:08] Quincy Brown: Well and what I think is even cooler is that Lucie like listened to the pod.

[1:13] Kevin Bianchi: And was then an Elphaba and is now a guest on the pod.

[1:18] Quincy Brown: Which I think is really really cool.

[1:20] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah somehow we got to DMing back and forth.

[1:24] Quincy Brown: Where she told us that she had been listening to every episode in preparation for taking over as Elphaba on the West End.

[1:32] Kevin Bianchi: Which is a really cool moment I think for you and I Kevin.

[1:36] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[1:37] Kevin Bianchi: Because I don't think we imagined when we started this podcast or at least I didn't.

[1:41] Quincy Brown: That when we started this that one day an actress who was going to take over as Elphaba would use our podcast as like research material for the role.

[1:50] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah and remember I think it was like the first time that we really like talked to her.

[1:55] Quincy Brown: She was like I can't believe you guys even know who I am.

[1:58] Kevin Bianchi: And we were like.

[1:59] Quincy Brown: Which is insane to me.

[2:01] Kevin Bianchi: You were on a billboard in Times Square.

[2:04] Quincy Brown: We all thought you were coming to Broadway.

[2:05] Kevin Bianchi: We thought you were going to be our Jenna.

[2:08] Quincy Brown: Because to me I don't know I wasn't I'm not an X Factor.

[2:11] Kevin Bianchi: I don't partake in X Factor culture.

[2:13] Quincy Brown: Not really me either.

[2:14] Kevin Bianchi: Okay that wouldn't.

[2:15] Quincy Brown: Are you a Eurovision culture person?

[2:17] Kevin Bianchi: I found out last year that Eurovision was in fact like a singing competition and not a soccer tournament.

[2:23] Quincy Brown: Did you think it was the World Cup?

[2:25] Kevin Bianchi: This whole time people have been talking about Eurovision. I thought it was a soccer tournament.

[2:29] Quincy Brown: Well okay so what is your first touch point with Lucy Jones?

[2:33] Kevin Bianchi: I feel like this is interesting because I think it could be like so many things. Because as you all will hear she has a resume.

[2:40] Quincy Brown: Because I definitely knew who she was when she got into Waitress.

[2:44] Kevin Bianchi: 100 percent.

[2:45] Quincy Brown: I had like peripherally known her as an X Factor darling.

[2:50] Kevin Bianchi: And then started to see a bunch of musical theater roles.

[2:53] Quincy Brown: And I was like wait what's going on here?

[2:54] Kevin Bianchi: Because it seems like she's like doing musical theater proper.

[2:58] Quincy Brown: And not in a way that like a reality show contestant would get cast in a musical.

[3:03] Kevin Bianchi: A lot of times we see theater actors or theater performers like go on The Voice.

[3:09] Quincy Brown: Or go on American Idol.

[3:11] Kevin Bianchi: Or go on X Factor to like launch into a different lane of their career.

[3:18] Quincy Brown: And I feel like the kind of opposite happened with Lucy.

[3:21] Kevin Bianchi: Where she like went on this show where you're supposed to become like a recording artist.

[3:25] Quincy Brown: And she like used it to pivot into being the musical theater bitch.

[3:31] Kevin Bianchi: The musical theater bitch.

[3:33] Quincy Brown: What can she bring to Broadway?

[3:34] Kevin Bianchi: I would love a Broadway moment for Lucy Jones.

[3:38] Quincy Brown: What if Lucy Jones was Ivy in the Bombshell?

[3:43] Kevin Bianchi: That actually works.

[3:44] Quincy Brown: I feel like also Keri St. Louis.

[3:47] Kevin Bianchi: Wait I thought of someone good to play Karen Cartwright in the Smash musical.

[3:50] Quincy Brown: I was thinking Eleni Ward.

[3:53] Kevin Bianchi: Oh Ellery Ward.

[3:55] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[3:55] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah that would be super interesting.

[3:58] Quincy Brown: We're gonna see her at Julia's concert tomorrow.

[4:00] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah wait guys we're going to see Julia Murney soothe my soul at 54 Below tomorrow night.

[4:06] Quincy Brown: I already know she will in fact soothe my soul.

[4:10] Kevin Bianchi: What are you hoping to hear from Ms. Murney tomorrow?

[4:13] Quincy Brown: If she's singing musical theater.

[4:16] Kevin Bianchi: What's my pie in the sky wish list?

[4:19] Quincy Brown: Nobody's side.

[4:21] Kevin Bianchi: But my more realistic hope is people.

[4:26] Quincy Brown: Sure I could see her giving Back to the Four.

[4:32] Kevin Bianchi: Anyway Lucy Jones I'm so excited.

[4:34] Quincy Brown: Kevin give us the resume.

[4:35] Kevin Bianchi: Here we go.

[4:36] Quincy Brown: Here we go.

[4:38] Kevin Bianchi: Buckle up guys.

[4:39] Quincy Brown: All right Lucy Jones first came into the zeitgeist in 2009 when she was on The X Factor UK.

[4:47] Kevin Bianchi: And then in 2010 she made her West End debut in Les Misérables.

[4:56] Quincy Brown: Beautiful.

[4:56] Kevin Bianchi: As wait for it Cosette?

[4:59] Quincy Brown: We love a twist.

[5:01] Kevin Bianchi: We love a twist.

[5:01] Quincy Brown: She has a soprano.

[5:02] Kevin Bianchi: As I'm reading this it's like oh epic oh fine.

[5:08] Quincy Brown: Honestly get you a girl who can do all three.

[5:12] Kevin Bianchi: In 2013 she joined the touring company of We Will Rock You as the role of Meat which is originated by Keri Ellis.

[5:21] Quincy Brown: Right.

[5:22] Kevin Bianchi: So okay so we're singing Cosette.

[5:25] Quincy Brown: We're singing Keri Ellis.

[5:27] Kevin Bianchi: We're singing Keri Ellis.

[5:29] Quincy Brown: In December 2013 she was in the original London cast of American Psycho in an ensemble track which.

[5:39] Kevin Bianchi: I can't believe we didn't ask her about it.

[5:41] Quincy Brown: But she has said that she like felt like she needed to do that to like cut her teeth.

[5:46] Kevin Bianchi: And establish credibility which I love.

[5:48] Quincy Brown: But I'm like girl you have you were Cosette.

[5:52] Kevin Bianchi: Sure.

[5:52] Quincy Brown: On the West End. You are credible.

[5:54] Kevin Bianchi: But that's a theme and we'll talk about it in the outro.

[5:57] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[5:58] Kevin Bianchi: In March 2015 she went on the Chinese tour of Ghost the Musical in the well not the titular role of Molly but.

[6:07] Quincy Brown: If there's bootlegs of Lucy Jones and Ghost please send them our way.

[6:09] Kevin Bianchi: I would love to hear slash see that.

[6:12] Quincy Brown: Don't cut that Kevin.

[6:13] Kevin Bianchi: Okay.

[6:14] Quincy Brown: In 2016 she played Elle in Legally Blonde and also played Maureen in Rent which Annalie Ashford and Lucy Jones the only two.

[6:25] Kevin Bianchi: Oh that's fun.

[6:28] Quincy Brown: Which can I give a little quick Stuck on SJB right now?

[6:31] Kevin Bianchi: Yes.

[6:32] Quincy Brown: I was listening to Stuck on SJBs.

[6:34] Kevin Bianchi: I was listening to the Stephanie J. Block's podcast Stages which you should all go listen to.

[6:41] Quincy Brown: Yes.

[6:42] Kevin Bianchi: And she interviewed Annalie Ashford.

[6:44] Quincy Brown: They talked about her doing Rent and Annalie going in for auditions.

[6:49] Kevin Bianchi: She kept getting called back in for auditions and kept getting the feedback of like oh they're not really sure what to do with you because like you're such a Glinda type.

[6:58] Quincy Brown: I forget who it was.

[6:59] Kevin Bianchi: She had one person championing for her and he was essentially like we just need to convince them that like you can break the Glinda mold and you can do Maureen.

[7:08] Quincy Brown: So it was actually like not easy for her to book Maureen.

[7:11] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah well you know there can be 99 people in a room.

[7:16] Quincy Brown: In 2017 she played Holly in The Wedding Singer.

[7:20] Kevin Bianchi: All I know from Wedding Singer is Laura Benanti's song.

[7:24] Quincy Brown: Which one?

[7:25] Kevin Bianchi: She has so many.

[7:26] Quincy Brown: Someday when it's me.

[7:28] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[7:28] Quincy Brown: Pray my love will live for me.

[7:32] Kevin Bianchi: Not one single complication.

[7:36] Quincy Brown: Yeah good.

[7:36] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[7:37] Quincy Brown: Also in 2017 she played Elle again on the UK tour of Legally Blonde.

[7:43] Kevin Bianchi: The UKers are so lucky.

[7:46] Quincy Brown: They're lucky.

[7:47] Kevin Bianchi: In 2019 in what is perhaps like her first touch point with the two of us pre-sent men was in June 2019 when she went into Waitress on the West End as Jenna.

[8:03] Quincy Brown: Quincy she is the only person in the Waitress to Wicked pipeline.

[8:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah that's true.

[8:12] Quincy Brown: That's an astute observation.

[8:13] Kevin Bianchi: May she be the first but not the last.

[8:16] Quincy Brown: After she was in Waitress in what I personally consider a flex.

[8:21] Kevin Bianchi: Not only is she back in Les Mis on the West End.

[8:23] Quincy Brown: This time she is back as Fantine because what?

[8:27] Kevin Bianchi: She can do both.

[8:29] Quincy Brown: Which brings us to what we're all here to talk about today and what we were all here to talk about on Tuesday.

[8:34] Kevin Bianchi: Lucy Jones stepped into the role of Elphaba in Wicked on the West End.

[8:46] Quincy Brown: Flew into the role of Elphaba.

[8:48] Kevin Bianchi: Ran down that rake and almost fell into the role.

[8:53] Quincy Brown: In those chunky ass boots.

[8:55] Kevin Bianchi: Clunky ass.

[8:56] Quincy Brown: Elphaba's entrance look does not do it for me.

[9:01] Kevin Bianchi: Any individual on their first day of school would want to give a little zhuzh.

[9:08] Quincy Brown: What would you change about the outfit?

[9:09] Kevin Bianchi: What would you put her in?

[9:11] Quincy Brown: Ditch the beanie, ditch the braid for sure.

[9:14] Kevin Bianchi: Then what business would Glinda have to do with the hair during Popular?

[9:19] Quincy Brown: Glinda could be pointing out how greasy and gross her hair is much like Broadway's own Brittany Johnson has chosen to do in her Popular.

[9:30] Kevin Bianchi: The way that we're like, yeah, Bridges, you've crossed as Hilties. 17 more years from now, girls are going to be doing this.

[9:39] Quincy Brown: That's Brittany's.

[9:40] Kevin Bianchi: That was Brittany's.

[9:41] Quincy Brown: So yes, we're at Wicked.

[9:43] Kevin Bianchi: We're at Wicked.

[9:44] Quincy Brown: And literally, we're at Wicked because Lucy called us to do this interview from her dressing room.

[9:51] Kevin Bianchi: Which was so cool for me.

[9:54] Quincy Brown: Was that cool?

[9:54] Kevin Bianchi: Bitch, that was cool as hell.

[9:56] Quincy Brown: And here's the thing.

[9:57] Kevin Bianchi: I feel like she knew it was going to be cool for us.

[9:59] Quincy Brown: And so she did that.

[10:00] Kevin Bianchi: That's what I'm...

[10:01] Quincy Brown: That's the narrative that I'm going to tell myself.

[10:03] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, so what? It's March.

[10:05] Quincy Brown: What's the date right now?

[10:06] Kevin Bianchi: It's not even March.

[10:06] Quincy Brown: Today is February 24th.

[10:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, and she started on February 1st.

[10:11] Quincy Brown: So she's like, not even a full month in.

[10:14] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, three weeks.

[10:16] Quincy Brown: Three weeks.

[10:18] Kevin Bianchi: That's nuts.

[10:20] Quincy Brown: She must be so tired.

[10:22] Kevin Bianchi: She's fresh into the role, which is a really fun and exciting time.

[10:26] Quincy Brown: I think to talk to an actress who's taking on a role like Elphaba.

[10:30] Kevin Bianchi: I am secretly manifesting that we get to talk to her when her contract is up and see the growth and the journey that she's been on and her perspective now versus her perspective then.

[10:40] Quincy Brown: I think that'd be really fun and fresh.

[10:42] Kevin Bianchi: Before we get into our interview with Lucy Jones, please hit me with a Stuck on SJB.

[10:53] Quincy Brown: I think it's high time that we discuss something so pivotal to Stephanie J Block's catalog that it's almost embarrassing that we haven't discussed it yet.

[11:05] Kevin Bianchi: And we alluded to it in our last Stuck on SJB.

[11:09] Quincy Brown: And so today, we're going to talk about the writing on the wall.

[11:12] Kevin Bianchi: Have we never talked about that?

[11:13] Quincy Brown: We have never.

[11:14] Kevin Bianchi: Obviously, we have access to this song on the cast recording.

[11:18] Quincy Brown: But I'm going to talk specifically about the video of it on YouTube because I think a big part of this experience is Stephanie's live performance of it because it's a lot of body language and it is second by second, like technical placement choices the whole way through.

[11:38] Kevin Bianchi: This is her first Tony nom.

[11:39] Quincy Brown: Correct me if I'm wrong.

[11:41] Kevin Bianchi: This was the first Tony nom.

[11:43] Quincy Brown: So first of all, it's giving Founding Father.

[11:46] Kevin Bianchi: It is giving that.

[11:48] Quincy Brown: Which I love for her.

[11:49] Kevin Bianchi: I love a transformation.

[11:50] Quincy Brown: I love it.

[11:51] Kevin Bianchi: It kind of reminds me of when Anne Hathaway did Twelfth Night in the park.

[11:57] Quincy Brown: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[11:58] Kevin Bianchi: I love Stephanie J Block in this song because in addition to giving us like a full on characterization, body language, beautiful technique, beautiful placement, she is also acting for her life.

[12:10] Quincy Brown: Like she is so clear on this text.

[12:13] Kevin Bianchi: Like the song kind of starts in that like monologue-y style.

[12:17] Quincy Brown: And she is like chewing that text.

[12:19] Kevin Bianchi: Like I am hearing every single word, understanding every single phrase and meaning.

[12:24] Quincy Brown: But more than that.

[12:26] Kevin Bianchi: And then a seamless transition into singing, which as you know, is like, I don't know, what's like the opposite of a pet peeve? It's like a pet treat for me when somebody's speaking voice is set to match like the pitch when they start singing.

[12:44] Quincy Brown: One kind of funny moment of this video is when she sings, It's clearly spelled out for those who have held out.

[12:50] Kevin Bianchi: Clocks the bootlegger like straight into the camera and then like kind of like closes her eyes.

[12:55] Quincy Brown: And you know, in that moment, she was like, okay, did I mess anything up? Now I need to go full out on the last note.

[13:01] Kevin Bianchi: This is going to be on YouTube tomorrow night.

[13:03] Quincy Brown: But the real like powerhouse moment is, of course, after the key change, there's such a like bravado to the sound.

[13:11] Kevin Bianchi: Like it's, it's very grounded.

[13:12] Quincy Brown: It's very, yeah.

[13:13] Kevin Bianchi: Well, and it's like, I'm sure that that's part of like the masculinity that she's putting on, but it sounds so good.

[13:22] Quincy Brown: Little thing that I love is when she sings, I tried to live forever.

[13:28] Kevin Bianchi: It's like a little treat for the gays in the cheap seats of like if I was cooking something and I was like, here, taste this.

[13:33] Quincy Brown: And you just get a little spoonful, but you know, you're going to get like a whole bowl of it in a minute.

[13:39] Kevin Bianchi: It's like, hey, I got it.

[13:40] Quincy Brown: I got it.

[13:41] Kevin Bianchi: I tried to live forever.

[13:43] Quincy Brown: And then I'm like, that's my spoonful. I'll sit tight.

[13:46] Kevin Bianchi: And then an E doesn't scare her, nor should it.

[13:49] Quincy Brown: Not only does the E come flying out, but it's flying out and it's she's spinning it from the beginning.

[13:56] Kevin Bianchi: It's like, it's like comfy and healthy and loose for her to sing that E because an E does not scare her.

[14:02] Quincy Brown: And that's when the Tony nominators were like, check.

[14:05] Kevin Bianchi: There it is.

[14:06] Quincy Brown: Check, check, check.

[14:07] Kevin Bianchi: This song is so great because it is a masterclass in the slow build, right?

[14:13] Quincy Brown: Because she like starts it kind of speak singing.

[14:17] Kevin Bianchi: And then like the song kind of picks up a little bit and like you hear the melody under as she's speaking and then she sings and then the key change.

[14:26] Quincy Brown: And even like after the key change, she keeps upping her own energy.

[14:31] Kevin Bianchi: I mean, it's very like The Wizard and I all building up to that E at the end of the song.

[14:36] Quincy Brown: Oh, it's terrific.

[14:38] Kevin Bianchi: Such a great Stuck on SJB.

[14:40] Quincy Brown: I'm ready to get stuck on Lucy Jones.

[14:44] Kevin Bianchi: Okay, let's get into it.

[14:46] Quincy Brown: Let's do it.

[14:52] Quincy Brown: Lucy Jones is here with us today. Not only is she here.

[14:57] Lucie Jones: She is in her dressing room right now. So this is truly the closest to Wicked we've ever been on this podcast.

[15:02] Quincy Brown: No way!

[15:03] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, we've never had a dressing room before. Did Lindsay not do hers?

[15:07] Lucie Jones: Oh, no, of course, she wasn't. Of course. Yeah, welcome. This is my room. You can't see anything because there's a window behind me. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah, here I am. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so, so chuffed that you guys have asked me to do this. Honestly, I'm a huge fan. I don't think I've missed a single episode. And I was actually turned on to you guys by one of my best friends. When I was auditioning for the role last summer, she texted me and said, Do you know this podcast? And I was like, No, I don't. And she's like, I listen to it on TikTok all the time. I'm like, it's always coming up for me on my For You page. Yeah. And that was Samantha Barks.

[15:40] Quincy Brown: Oh, my God.

[15:41] Lucie Jones: Who was one of my besties and was bridesmaid at my wedding. So she turned me on to you guys. And then when I got the role, I was like, Right, babe, I'm gonna have to go back through and listen to them all again and make notes. So I swear to God, there are things I do in the show every day. I swear to God.

[16:02] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, my God. Well, it was like really cool for us to hear that you were like going into the role and using the podcast to study up. That's just like such a crazy I don't think we ever expected that to happen.

[16:10] Lucie Jones: Yeah, it's so cool. Well, expect it henceforth, because it's really helpful.

[16:15] Quincy Brown: Oh, my goodness, that is so funny. So before we get into you as Elphaba, we start every interview with how did Wicked the musical come into your life? Because you've been a fan of theater since you were little, right?

[16:24] Lucie Jones: Yeah, I've seen Wicked more times than I've done Wicked so far. I remember being on a holiday with my family. I was probably like, I don't know, 12 or 13. And I had a little Walkman CD player. I'd had the Wicked cast recording for Christmas. And I was listening to I remember being we were at a ski resort. And we were in this tiny little apartment. And there was one bathroom in the middle of the apartment. And I'd sit in the bath at the end of the day and like scream defying gravity. And I remember my brother banging on the door being like, shut up, shut up, please, for the love of God, stop. But he came to my opening night and like sobbed like a baby. So that was that's how I remember the musical kind of I don't remember the first time I ever heard the music. There's not like a pivotal moment for me going, Oh, my God, yeah, this is this is transcendent, which is, but I don't remember the specific moment.

[17:18] Kevin Bianchi: Do you remember the first time you saw it?

[17:20] Lucie Jones: Yeah, God, yeah. I came with my boyfriend in school. And we took the bus from Cardiff, we came to see the show. And we sat upstairs right at the back. And I cried like a baby. And it's always been the one for me. If you go back on interviews with me for like years, and anyone says any dream roles, I'm like, I'll tell you if I get them. It was this. It was this. Always this.

[17:45] Quincy Brown: Yeah, yeah. Do you remember who you saw that first time?

[17:48] Lucie Jones: I the first time I came, I saw Lexi. Lexi Kadeem.

[17:53] Kevin Bianchi: Nice. Wow.

[17:55] Lucie Jones: I think I think that was the first time I came. I saw a witch switch once as well. I came and there was a witch switch during Act One.

[18:01] Quincy Brown: Have you only seen it on the West End? You've said you've seen it more times than you've done it.

[18:04] Lucie Jones: I've never seen it in New York. Yeah. So I've seen the UK touring version. And I saw it in Zurich. When a friend of mine was playing Fiero, I was like, cool, I'm coming. I'll come out and see. Yeah, and I've seen it here a lot. Especially the Glinda that just left Sophie is one of my oldest friends. So if I was kind of in town with nothing to do of the day, I'd be like, hey, got a seat for a pal, you know, and I just come and sit by myself and watch it. I love the show. I loved watching her with Alice. I loved watching her with Laura. I just I just love it. I can't believe I'm in it. And I'm so glad we're doing this now because I'll be so grateful to listen to this later in the year. You know, when you find your feet with something and it becomes a day to day thing.

[18:46] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[18:47] Lucie Jones: Still now I'm like, oh my god, every time I come up the stairs, and I see Lucy Jones, Elphaba on my door. I'm like, well, that's why it's cool. I'm glad we're talking to you at the start. And we'll have to talk to you when you're finishing up because I'm excited to see how your perspective on the role changes as you do it.

[19:04] Lucie Jones: Yeah, I'll do it. Great. Okay, so there was this article that came out after you booked. The headline was like Lucy Jones auditioned for Wicked 11 times before finally booking the role. I do feel like the content of the article wasn't substantial in the sense where we didn't get like the full story. So I would love to hear your audition journey with Wicked.

[19:24] Lucie Jones: Cool. I will give you the rundown. Spare no details. I shall spare none. I remember it all quite well. I've always loved the show. So when I got the call about my very first, it was a general meet with the creative team here. And when was this? This was I've done Les Mis, I've done Gazette in Les Mis.

[19:42] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, so this was early on in your like theater career.

[19:46] Lucie Jones: Yeah, yeah, really early on. It was my first audition since like Les Mis. So I was still in the show. And I remember getting the call from my agent saying, okay, so we have a meeting for you for Wicked. And I was like, 12. I wasn't 12, but I felt like 12. And so for them to call me up and say, we have a meeting for you for Wicked. I was like, right. Okay, well, what do I do? What do I wear? It was for Elphaba?

[20:09] Kevin Bianchi: It was a general meet.

[20:10] Lucie Jones: So it was bring your own material. We don't know who you are. You've just been on a TV show. And I've just done The X Factor like two years. So there was in part from the fact that I was currently playing Gazette, there was just no leg to stand on. I really I needed to earn my credibility.

[20:29] Quincy Brown: But did you feel like you had career momentum after X Factor?

[20:32] Lucie Jones: No. No.

[20:33] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[20:34] Lucie Jones: I mean, when I was a kid, when I was living at home, I had a theater agent who was based in Wales, and she had an office in London, and she would send me up. So whilst I was in high school, I'd audition for Les Mis and a couple of other things and loads of like, TV ads, which I never got. But that's fine.

[20:54] Kevin Bianchi: That's fine. You're Elphaba now.

[20:55] Lucie Jones: Yeah, screw you. So I did The X Factor knowing that I wanted to do theater. So when they kind of said to me, what do you want to do? Who do you want to meet? I was like, find me an agent. I want to do theater. And they're like, really? The money kind of sucks.

[21:13] Quincy Brown: And so Popstar was never endgame for you?

[21:15] Lucie Jones: Well, I mean, I think we'd all be lying if we said no to that question.

[21:19] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[21:19] Lucie Jones: Because we've all had those, you know, dreams. But I love musicals. I've always loved musicals. My whole childhood was centered around sport and music. And that's very much akin with where I grew up and what the city is about and the opportunities that are there. I've never, ever felt like it was cool to be doing a high school musical or playing flute, and then going off to play a game of football or whatever. We just didn't have that. And Wales is a very kind of music-centric and sports-centric country anyway. And I lived in the capital city. So I was very lucky.

[21:57] Quincy Brown: So you went in for your general Wicked meet the first time?

[21:59] Lucie Jones: Oh, God, I really went off on a tangent there.

[22:01] Kevin Bianchi: It was perfect.

[22:02] Lucie Jones: So I'm in Les Mis, I get this call, I go to the meeting. And I remember thinking, there's no way because I'm playing cassette right now, they'll be maybe will consider me for a Glinda cover, or maybe a Nessa, I don't know. But so I thought I'll do a character song that has like a bit of belt in it. So I did. All I have to say is I am happy to be sitting here. Because it has that I have my feet on the ground.

[22:26] Quincy Brown: Right, right.

[22:26] Lucie Jones: Which for me at that time was like the sweet spot. There's no danger. I know I can do it. I've done it before. And I'd like learned it with my singing teacher growing up at home in Cardiff. And so I went in and they were like, Do you know Defying Gravity? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, like trying to be super chill. And they're like, Can you just sing the end of Defying Gravity for us? Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, sure. Can I just have like one minute to look over the lyric? Obviously, I know all the words.

[22:58] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[22:59] Lucie Jones: But I went to the piano and he was like, Do you want to hold the music? And I was like, No, no, no, I think, you know, I'll plug in. I'm fine. So anyway, I sang it. And then they got me to do some scales and things. And then I was recalled for Nessa cover alphabet. And I went all the way through to the finals and I didn't get it. But I was maybe 19 at the time. And if I had booked that job, I would be dead by now if I booked that job. I really was not ready for it in any way, shape or form. And I really feel like that for, you know, quite a few of those years, because I hadn't been to school and I didn't know how to live your days for your night job, you know, and it was just something that I needed to learn.

[23:40] Quincy Brown: And there was a very close call a few years ago, when I booked Waitress.

[23:49] Lucie Jones: For Wicked?

[23:50] Quincy Brown: Yes. Yeah. But I'm here now. And it feels like the right thing at the right time.

[23:57] Lucie Jones: And I'm so glad that I have Waitress as part of my, I hate the word journey, but as part of my, you know, career path and my personal story, because it did so much for me as a person and as a performer. And it really gave me some strength and gave me the belief that I could do this because I've always been scared of it as well. You know, it's freaking alphabet. It's not a joke. This is not a drill. You can't just waltz in and, you know, fanny around and do a couple of shows and you live your life for it. And I just, I'm definitely glad that I'm here now. This feels like the right time. And with this Glinda as well. I just love Helen Wolfe. She's just amazing.

[24:37] Kevin Bianchi: So good. Yeah.

[24:38] Lucie Jones: It sounds like there was kind of like a dichotomy of going in and auditioning for belty things, but you were playing this kind of soprano-y role and then like the introduction of Vanessa into it. Like, what was that like for you at that point in your career?

[24:53] Lucie Jones: It always happens to me. It's happened to me the whole way through. When I was auditioning for Les Mis, I was in the final. That's how I know Barks. We met on the train going to that Les Mis final. I was on the train. She was sat opposite me. I recognized her. She recognized me. And she was like, hey, Lucy Jones. I was like, yeah, you smell the Barks. She's like, yeah, I really like your boots. And I was like, I love your jacket. And then the rest is history. And we've been like best friends ever since, really. But we were both, like, I was looking at her that day thinking, balls, she's going to be going in for Les Mis right now. She's dressed like Eponine. And I was dressed like Eponine. I was finaling for Eponine.

And when we stood on stage together in what was then the Queens is now the Sondheim, I remember Cameron coming down to the front stage and saying, girls, you look wonderful together. You really do. Lucy, would you mind singing for Cosette? Cameron Mackenzie sounds like Boris Johnson today. Sorry, I'm not on my best game. So don't judge me too harshly.

[26:03] Lucie Jones: And I go, yeah, yeah, of course. No worries. And I went to the piano and I was like, didn't you sing really? He was like, you go up to like here and you play like a top D. And do you have a soprano?

[26:05] Kevin Bianchi: Not anymore.

[26:12] Lucie Jones: I definitely did. I definitely did. And I mean, I played the role for a year and I got away with it. You know, I can't imagine I was the most interesting vocalist they'd ever had as that role. But it was definitely an incredible start. And Cameron's been amazing to me over the years. And that job was just the beginning of an amazing education in the world that I wanted to be in. So I'll be forever grateful to it. And it was just wasn't meant to be. And then, of course, Sam booked the movie from that and everything. So it was just kismet. It was all right.

[26:38] Quincy Brown: You know, talking about how you don't they never really know where to put you. Is it true that you went in for Frozen and then went in for Elsa and then they were like, do you want to sing for Anna?

[26:46] Lucie Jones: Yeah, same thing. Exactly the same thing. And I was it was my final. And Michael Grandage said to me, would you mind singing for Anna? And I was like, yeah, sure. So it's like, do you know, first time in forever? Like, yeah, I think so. Of course I do. And they're like, just so you know, the audition cut is all in the key change key. So it's like the window is open. So is that door?

[27:10] Kevin Bianchi: I don't know that anymore.

[27:11] Lucie Jones: And then the end is just so like big and huge. And I'm dressed like Elsa. I'm like ice. I'm like, yeah, sure. I don't know. Maybe I'll like take off my shoes and be a bit more like earthy. Let's do that. OK, so I take them off and I'm like thinking I can't wait to ring my agent and tell him about this. I'm clearly not booking the job. Great story. And I had a great time, but I knew like at that point there was three of us for Elsa. And I kind of got there that day thinking, well, then both of those people are good friends of mine. It's like this is so cool. Like whoever gets it will be genuinely thrilled for each other and have fun now. And they were like, so can you read Anna's scenes now? We'll bring in another Elsa.

[27:56] Lucie Jones: Did you get to do it with Sam?

[27:57] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[27:58] Lucie Jones: She's like, so are you in for Anna? I was like, I guess. I don't know. You know, as much as look, I really I really wanted to book that job. Of course I did. I saw it on Broadway and loved it. When I was in the room then doing the scenes with Sam, I was like, geez, she's she's got this. This is her. It's just to a tee.

[28:21] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[28:22] Lucie Jones: So it's actually really nice that it worked out that way. She's part of my story in such a big way. And I've been part of hers in those little weird moments where, you know, those big things like that's a life changing thing. It's an original cast of a huge Disney musical, which is the biggest movie of our time. You know, it's awesome.

[28:34] Quincy Brown: Yeah. OK, so take us into we did the first Wicked audition. What are two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten?

[28:40] Lucie Jones: Oh, God, I dread to tell you all of it. I remember one of them being for a touring production of the show, and I fell over. I fell flat on my face doing the cub scene. So fine, if you don't want my help. No, I do. I'm sorry. And I went for him. And my feet just went from underneath me because I reached for him so aggressively and I just hit the deck. That kind of works, does it?

[29:12] Quincy Brown: Clearly, it didn't work.

[29:13] Lucie Jones: It was so embarrassing. It was so embarrassing. And like James, JC, who's the musical supervisor here, who we always joke about it. It's now I'm finally here. They've known me for years because like by the time I went in last year and auditioned, it was like, oh, hey, guys, like, how's the family? Yeah, yeah, great. You got married. Yeah, lovely. Thanks. And, you know, it's like greeting old friends, which is amazing.

[29:38] Kevin Bianchi: In a way, it's like they've been rooting for you all these years.

[29:41] Lucie Jones: I know that they have because they keep bringing you in. So clearly they wanted to work out.

[30:55] Lucie Jones: We usually bump people up from standby, or cover, or they've toured, or we bring someone from another part of the world, you know, so I don't think there's been a new, like I say new, as in fresh to the show, Elphaba in the UK for quite some time, maybe like four or five years. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, it's taken me time to find my stamina. Even on Broadway, like the last three have been kind of brand new to the show, but that's been different for the Broadway production. Yeah, and I completely understand why they do it. It's huge, and look, I've done a lot of stuff in my short time in this crazy industry, and I've doubled up on things, and I've done some intense things.

Nothing is like this. This is a whole nother realm of what a body and a mind can do, and they know that, and they're trying, they're protecting the girls and the guys that come in and play these roles by doing that, by bumping people up, by giving them standby, by, you know, nurturing.

[31:58] Quincy Brown: Okay, but Lucy, you were surprised that we knew who you were?

[32:04] Lucie Jones: Yeah, of course I was! No, you're a very established musical theatre performer, Lucy Jones.

[32:10] Lucie Jones: Oh, I don't know, I just, I always think, literally, I was literally talking to a friend of mine this morning about this, because they're doing Mrs. Doubtfire quiz today in town, and he called me last night and said, I feel like a bit of a fraud, like I can't do this, and I was like, you remind yourself who the fuck you are, please, just sit down for a second, and imagine someone else looking at you. If I was a similar casting to you, and I walked into a waiting area, and you were there, I'd be like, oh, god damn it, he's here, he's in a booking, and he was like, no, people must think that about you, and I was like, no they don't, he was like, of course they do, and so we have this like love in on each other, but it's crazy, because I don't see myself as that at all.

I mean, yeah, I've done lots of stuff now, but I genuinely love it, and I don't know, it's, I don't know, I don't know, I just, I listen to you guys all the time, and when you sent me a message, I was like, oh my god, okay, everyone needs to calm the hell down. I really was, I really was, and then I told my, when I told my agent I was doing this, he freaked out.

[33:07] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my god, really?

[33:08] Lucie Jones: But yeah, no, you're, and I think the roles you've done on the West End have been like big musical theatre roles for Americans too. Like a lot of American transfers. How is that from a UK perspective?

[33:17] Lucie Jones: I mean, we're always very excited to get work from Broadway. I'm definitely in groups of friends that are, we love what we do, and we're fans of theatre, and that's why we do it. So, well, I've traveled to New York to see things on Broadway. I took a trip on my birthday a few years ago, well, maybe like five, six years ago now. I came to see Dear Evan Hansen on my birthday one year. I was in Florida, and I was like, hey, can we go to New York? While we're here. Just see Dear Evan Hansen, like tomorrow, and we did, we did. We managed to get incredible seats, and we saw the whole original cast, and it was one of the greatest things I've ever experienced in my life. I traveled, I queued up to get the rush tickets for Mean Girls, and like when my friend and I came to New York seven or eight years ago, and we did that every morning.

We were up, and we were out, and by this time, we were both playing these roles that we just love it. When something is coming over from the States, I'm usually already like, oh my god, I love that soundtrack, oh, I love that guy, or this is, I'm so excited to see how it will change, or for Waitress, for example, I had been touring for a long ass time, and the last tour that I'd done was real hard work. I played Elle on the road in Legally Blonde, and it was the same year that I did Eurovision, and I got married, and I did Wedding Singer for six weeks covering someone else, and I doubled it up with Rent, and it was, it was crazy, crazy time, and so I just said to Gav, I need to, I need to stop touring, if you don't mind, and I'd rather, if I need to take a break, if, you know, I'll get another job, I'll work in a grocery store, like I'll do something else for a while.

I just want to kind of be at home, and sleep in my own bed, and hang out with my dogs, and my husband, God forbid, so we did that, and Waitress came up. I mean, I never anticipated it being something so special, you know, and I knew the soundtrack, because I knew it from the kind of Broadway scene, so it's actually really helpful in terms of being, like, being a fan is really helpful for my job.

[35:27] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, and can you walk us through the Waitress audition process a little bit, because I get the sense that it was a little bit like Carrie Ellis doing the Wicked London cast, she auditioned for the opening cast, and then they were like, actually, we're going to bring in Adina, you can replace after. Is that touchy? Sorry.

[35:41] Lucie Jones: No, no, no, no, gosh, no, I mean, it's fine. I've played the role. It's been great for me. I've closed the chapter of it. Don't get me wrong, if it came up again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But yeah, it's a similar, similar story. And Carrie and I have actually spoken about that. And I did her podcast. We did that when I was kind of going through that whole thing. And she was she was great. Actually, she kind of talked me through what happened with her and how helpful it eventually was for her to be the first Brit. So when you found out that they were gonna let Cat open it, were you like, oh, I'll replace at some point? Or did you think that ship had sailed for you?

[36:13] Lucie Jones: Well, there was lots of different conversations, really. It was, you know, would you like to be in the ensemble and cover? And at this point, I'd spent, you know, months prepping and thousands of pounds on coaching. And, you know, this the time and effort and the heart that I put into it. I didn't think I could watch someone else do it from so close. And so I said, thank you so much. But no, then it was would you like to be an offstage standby? And I was like, that's kind of the same thing. It's not worse. I'm not really part of it. I'm like, pick me in the corner. If I'd been auditioning for that the whole time, please don't misunderstand me. I would have been fine with that. Not a problem at all. I just was invested in it on a different-

[37:06] Quincy Brown: You had your heart set.

[37:06] Lucie Jones: In a different capacity. Yeah. And yeah, so I kind of walked away from it at that point. And then they said, would you like to take over when she leaves? And I said, hell yeah, that's great. That's what I want to do. Then, you know, it wasn't selling incredibly well at the beginning. So it was kind of like, oh, my God, have I taken this job and waited all these months and had all these sleepless nights and done all of this for, you know-

[37:34] Kevin Bianchi: A few weeks.

[37:34] Lucie Jones: If the show, God forbid, was to close. And yeah, and then I might have not been able to do it at all. Then Kat extended as well. She decided to stay a little bit longer and I was like, yeah, God, come on. But eventually it worked out really well. And I just did the tour here in the UK. I opened the tour for a few months and it was great. I just, I love that role. I just think it's so beautifully crafted and it's so well supported from all the different elements around it in the show. It's just amazing. I could, I'd do it forever.

[38:09] Kevin Bianchi: And it's kind of cool, too, to have, like, Waitress is what took you off the roads, then to go back out for a little bit with Waitress was probably, that's like a nice full circle moment.

[38:19] Lucie Jones: Yeah, definitely. And it was a role that, like I said, Elle on the roads and Nyon killed me. It was so hard. And weekly touring as well. In the UK, you get in your car on a Saturday night or a Sunday and you drive to the next venue and you open on the Monday. So, yes, we're not, you know, we're not maybe doing 10 hour travels or anything, but you do eight shows and then you drive yourself. It's hard work. So to go back out on a show that I knew I could do and I knew that I loved so dearly, not to say that I didn't love Elle. She's just a little bit more energetic than Jenna, I'd say. More bubbly. So a little bit more difficult, you know.

[39:03] Quincy Brown: And Jenna gets more breaks than Elle does, for sure.

[39:03] Lucie Jones: Do you know what I did last year? You'll laugh at this. When I was rehearsing the Waitress tour and playing Fantine at night, I found myself one night, God, this is so embarrassing. I found myself one night because we were in a concert version of the show. I went down to the mic and I did, there was a time when men were kind. And I did the opening section when it all went wrong. And then as the music settled into the song, I settled and I put my hand on my hip and I sunk into my hip like in a Jenna. And I was like, oh, and I really had to like look at my hands and do some serious acting to try and get myself out of it. She's so exhausted, Jenna. And to be fair, Fantine is too. But at that point, she's still quite, you know, hopeful.

So to be slinking in that kind of Southern, you know, I can't do that. Freaking Fantine. It was bad. Oh my God. Okay. So you've done like pretty iconic, at least from an American perspective, pretty iconic musical theater roles, like Maureen, Molly and Ghost, which is a favorite of mine. Legally Blonde. Jenna, which role do you think prepared you most for Elphaba? What would you liken Elphaba to the most of what you've played?

[40:18] Lucie Jones: You know, I think I'm going to do a little bit of a cop out here and I'm going to say all of them because for different reasons, not maybe not specific roles, but times in your life when you're playing a role or in a specific production, something might happen to you and you can grow and change. And I feel like I have grown and changed quite a lot over the last 10 years, you know, as we do, but food and water. But the difference in human type and personality type and like understanding and drive and work ethic that comes from all of them. And I think a lot of Elphaba is all of those. I've kind of played Elphaba in, especially in Act One. I kind of talked to myself a little bit and there's dorky moments and there's like, she's always awkward and there's that kind of awkward edge to her. But I think maybe El and that kind of playful spirit that she has. And I played El quite dorky as well.

[40:24] Kevin Bianchi: Well, also, El is a deceptively hard part in musical theater.

[40:24] Lucie Jones: I don't think it's deceptive at all. It's like pretty face value hard. She sings the entire show. And not only that, but do you know how exhausting it is to be like this all the freaking time? Oh my God, it's so exhausting. And then you have to like run around and I am not a dancer, OK? And I had to dance. And I was in these heels and like holding a dog and traveling around the country. And it is hard. It is. Of course it is. You're absolutely right, Kevin. I'm on that team. But I know what you mean as well, Quincy, because it's not it's not like it doesn't get spoken about as like, oh, my God, she played this role. Wow. Like Eva Peron.

[41:57] Kevin Bianchi: Because it's legally blonde.

[41:59] Lucie Jones: Exactly. It's like people think it's fluff and there is that. But going back to your question, I think all of all of them in certain ways, having just played Jenna, who is so open and vulnerable during that kind of last section of the show, I think that makes the elements of Elphaba a little bit easier than they might have been had I not played that role in terms of showing a vulnerable side of her without her seeming like a victim, which I really tried to do with Jenna, because at some point she is a victim, but not all the time, because that's boring and it's just not her. And nobody wants to see that. And it wouldn't be her personal experience. So, oh, there's someone at my door. Hang on. Hi. Come in. Look who's here.

[42:52] Unknown speaker: Oh my God. Hi.

[42:56] Unknown speaker: Hello. Nice to meet you.

[42:58] Lucie Jones: I love this surprise appearance.

[43:00] Unknown speaker: I'm gate crashing only temporarily. I came in to drop off some curtsy pics, which I don't know if you've tried.

[43:05] Lucie Jones: No.

[43:06] Unknown speaker: They're the best. And a ginger shot. You know, we just take it in turns.

[43:09] Lucie Jones: This is so fun. I love this.

[43:11] Unknown speaker: This is a fever dream for me.

[43:14] Unknown speaker: You having a nice time?

[43:15] Lucie Jones: Oh, the best. We're talking about me. Oh, God. Nothing to talk about then. She's really done.

[43:21] Unknown speaker: All right, Helen, while you're here, let's get the question in. Are you a No One Mourns the Wicked popular or thank goodness Glinda?

[43:27] Unknown speaker: Popular.

[43:28] Lucie Jones: Okay, why?

[43:29] Unknown speaker: Oh, my God. It's honestly like just the most because there's also so much going on, but it's like that one time where you're entirely focusing on her and not a lot, you know, all the other scenes that we have together, there's other people, lots of things going on, but it's genuinely it's like her genuine want and desire to make her look good. And I just think like, you know, she's good at that. She knows what she's doing. And it's just so fun. I love it.

[43:53] Lucie Jones: Amazing.

[43:53] Unknown speaker: I love that.

[43:54] Lucie Jones: She's very good at it.

[43:55] Unknown speaker: I mean, yeah.

[43:55] Lucie Jones: I mean, post COVID was really fun running around like I'm about to have an asthma attack. But you know, we will get back there.

[44:02] Unknown speaker: It was so nice to meet you, Helen.

[44:04] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[44:04] Lucie Jones: You too. I'm gonna leave you to it. Nice to meet you.

[44:10] Lucie Jones: She's the best. She's the greatest. And she's like that all the time. It's amazing.

[44:15] Kevin Bianchi: She's very Glinda.

[44:16] Lucie Jones: She is. She really is. She'd be a great elf. She'd be a great elf.

[44:20] Kevin Bianchi: She would be. Yeah.

[44:22] Quincy Brown: Okay, wait, so we have this theory when it comes to Wicked and Waitress. We talk about the Wicked to Waitress pipeline. And I believe that any Elphaba can play Jenna, but not every Jenna can play Elphaba.

[44:34] Lucie Jones: Yeah, I would agree. I definitely would agree. I think vocally, this show is very broad. And I know that people think of Defying Gravity and they think of the end of The Wizard and I and they think of No Good Dean. But the hardest moments for me in the show are when I've given

[44:51] Lucie Jones: I'm a big fan of those, hell, and I'm standing there sweating my ass off in a corset trying to sing for good, you know. They're the moments where you really have to switch into a technical brain and think about those things. So you do have to be quite vocally apt to do this role, I would say. I'm sure people do it without training and they fly through it and, like, good for them. Not me, no way. No way in hell. But I think that sits well back into Jenna vocally because it's not an easy thing by any stretch of the imagination. But the power and the top end that we look for may be more in an Elphaba than in Jenna. You might not need to use that every day in Waitress. You can use it occasionally and you can pop out the end of What Baking Can Do or, you know, those moments in Bad Idea where you can really give it some Sheila, give it some Welly. And I think from an acting perspective as well, it really bugs me that people don't think of this or talk about this for the storytelling.

[45:54] Lucie Jones: Elphaba. Yeah. It kills me. It breaks my heart every day when Glinda says to me, of course, yeah, fine, I promise. But I don't understand. And I step back and say, I'm limited. Look at me. Every single time we do it, I think of her smiling in my face in Popular and saying goodbye to me in Defying Gravity, and seeing them at the ballroom when they, you know, the engagement. And I think of all those things. And I think of moments in my life and things that might resonate with that. And it makes me sob every day. And I think if you're not giving it that, then you wouldn't be here. If you couldn't tell a story well, then you wouldn't be able to do these roles, you know? So yes, Jenna might be seen as more of an act-y role than Elphaba to the masses, but I don't think they are.

I think you need to be able to tell a damn good story. And I think particularly that the arc with Elphaba, like even the physicality from, like, when I enter at the beginning of the show, just before Shiz, to where I am when I leave Glinda before the melting, the physical transformation and the vocal change, and the things that she goes through, and the moments, like...

[47:19] Lucie Jones: So, it's literally the first day of the week as well. This is where my brain is. Oh, God! In Sentimental Man, and when Chistory comes in, and when I give him wings, and he's in pain, and all of that. I feel that every day. And those moments, if you're not committing to those, you really become a non-thing. We're not in a real world here. We're in a fantasy world. So, we need to commit to it entirely for the audience to believe that it's real, you know? It's not like we're doing, you know, Downton Abbey. I don't know why I've gone there. Like, it's real people, and it might not be what we're used to every day, but it's real people, real events, living in a house, living lives, falling in love, etc. We've got flying monkeys and talking goats, so we need to commit to that experience and that existence entirely.

And I think if you don't do that, then your audience might leave thinking, that was fun, but they won't leave feeling moved or feeling like they've been on an emotional rollercoaster with you, which this show can really do. Do you know what else I think about most days? When Helz and I are doing harmonies, I think about the way that you've spoken about where the shift is with them, as people empower and everything with the harmonies. I think about that so often. I think it's so fascinating. So, thanks for that.

[48:40] Kevin Bianchi: Thank you. Okay, so let's go to this last audition, the audition that booked us the role. Did you ever, like, think maybe this isn't going to happen for me?

[48:51] Lucie Jones: Oh, yeah. God, every year. I was like, oh, God, why am I doing this again? They're going to hate me. They're going to think, oh, how embarrassing for me. But then I'd do the material and I'd work on it with my acting coach or with my singing teacher or, you know, at home with my husband, and I'd be like, I just love it so much. I've got to keep trying. I've got to. And there was one year where Ethan, my other half, who's the most supportive person in the world, he said to me, sweetie, you don't have to do this to yourself, because I, you know, I really wanted it. So, it was an emotional investment every year. And I was like, no, you don't understand. I do. I do have to do it every year, because that's what Elphaba would do. She'd just keep at it. She would not take no for an answer. And she would. She'd just, that sounds so cheesy.

[49:38] Kevin Bianchi: No, I love it. I love it.

[49:40] Lucie Jones: Be the person. But I mean it. It's part of who she is. It's the drive of her. And I have that in me. I'm a bit relentless, probably annoyingly so sometimes. But this time, it was COVID time. So, it was, you know, go into a venue, all the doors and windows are wide open. So, you can hear The Wizard and I from when you get off the tube all the way to the minute you leave, like the area. And there was a girl at my final this year.

[50:10] Kevin Bianchi: Sam Barks.

[50:11] Lucie Jones: Imagine, yeah. Every year. Can you imagine? Here she is again. She went in and bearing in mind, all the doors were open inside the building for ventilation and everything. So, I could hear everything. And this girl was killing it. I was like, who is that? Who is this girl? And she was just amazing. And like the power in her voice. She did the whole audition. And then she got to the end of Defying Gravity. And she just couldn't get it. And I listened to her maybe six or seven times, just not quite get it. And she came out. I've never seen her before. She was very young. In floods of tears. And I just wanted to be like, bitch, that was me. Every year. I just wanted to be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry.

Like, I felt every second of it. I don't know her name. I don't know who she is. I've never seen her again. I wasn't allowed to speak to her. We were COVID life, you know. Whoever you are, if you're hearing this, don't give up. Because seriously, that was me some years. And I'd leave and I'd cry. And I've, you know, it's happened in other auditions. And I've been like, oh, messed that up. They're not going to see me again. But then they do. And we're all human, you know, people, people who play the role don't hit the note every day. And it's about progression and getting there eventually.

[51:33] Kevin Bianchi: Was there something special about this final audition?

[51:35] Lucie Jones: I think I felt like I deserved it. If I'm honest, I felt like I went in there, not being afraid of it, not being afraid of the people in the room.

[51:46] Kevin Bianchi: And did having done Jenna influence that attitude at all? Having like already led a show now?

[51:52] Lucie Jones: Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I mean, I've done lots of brilliant leading roles, I really have. But to do one in town where people, you know, they see your face every day, and they hear about you every day, and it does, it does change things slightly. And I hadn't done that. And I so I hadn't had that feeling of like, these people trust me, and the audience trusts me. Do you know what I mean? I hadn't had that really before. And that and I've never even really thought about that or said out loud. That sounds weird to say out loud, but I haven't thought about it really. But that's probably what it was. I believed that I deserved to be there. I wasn't afraid of the event in itself. And I could literally visualize being behind the cloth, Glinda coming down.

You know, I could visualize it, I could imagine myself being there. And feeling the excitement and the nerves and like seeing my parents and my family, like sat in the audience, I could see it. Yeah. And I just I believed it. I think that's the difference. And so now that we're doing it, and you've been wanting to do it for so long, is there anything that surprised you? Or you were like, Oh, I wasn't expecting this to be a part of the gig.

[53:05] Lucie Jones: I had very clear thoughts about how I would like to play this person. I have had for a long time. How would you articulate your Elphaba? She's just an open book, which is might be slightly different to the guarded version of events that people have may have thought that they were playing before. But I think it's really interesting to see everything on her face. Because why would she know social cues? Why would she know how to hide herself? Like, yeah, you do in certain situations, like in the scene with Glinda, where she, you know, Elphaba's dance, that's an act. Yeah, that's her covering up. That's her being defiant. But her just putting a hand up in the class and answering a question. That's because she knows.

So in her mind, everything's very straightforward. Oh, I know that answer. Why is everyone looking at me? I just don't understand. Oh, no, he knows something else. Do you know what I mean? I think she's just that. And I love, love, love, love, love doing The Wizard and I, because that kind of playful fantasy side of her, I feel like that's been probably a lot of her existence. And, you know, growing up without friends and without the love of her parents, or Nessa's kind of embarrassed about her the whole time. They're not going to be in the garden playing make believe and making up dances, you know, it's, it's not going to be that way for her. So I imagine she spent a lot of time alone. Yeah. And dreaming, you know.

[54:39] Kevin Bianchi: Okay, that kind of brings us to our next question. The question. Do you consider yourself a Wizard and I, defying gravity, or no good deed Elphaba, it can mean whatever you want it to mean. All we ask is that you explain why.

[54:51] Lucie Jones: Okay, well, I've thought about this a long and hard and deep. I really have. I love it. It's such a hard question to answer. Because realistically, yes, I've seen the show and thought, oh my god, the way that Rachel Tucker did defying gravity, or...

[55:10] Kevin Bianchi: Thank you for bringing her up.

[55:13] Lucie Jones: Of course, I've thought those things and seen those things. But actually doing it and being in it is a really hard question to answer, especially maybe because I'm at the beginning, this will be interesting to see if my, you know, through the contract. Because until I played the role, I would have hands down said the Wizard and I, hands down, because that's how I feel about the show. That excitement and that like buzz and that. Oh, that's cool. I'm with you there. When I say at the beginning of the song, so I'll make good and like, oh my god, is this really happening? My I've had people say to me recently, like, what do you think about when you when you're seeing this bit or this bit or whatever? And somebody said to me in a I was teaching a few weeks ago. And she was like, I always think in that bit, like, what would I do if there's this TV show here? And if you guys have it called Ted Lasso?

[56:10] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, yeah, Americans are obsessed with it.

[56:10] Lucie Jones: Okay, I love it, too. I love it. So Hannah Waddingham, who plays the club owner in Richmond, she's a musical theatre girl. She she was in Game of Thrones. She's done lots of amazing things. And she's she won an Emmy this year. And this girl said to me, when I'm at the beginning of the Wizard and I I'm thinking about did that really just happen? I'm thinking Hannah Waddingham has just called me up and said, I'm not doing season three of Ted Lasso without you like that kind of thing. And I was like, yeah, no, that's good. That's good. And I thought on that for a while. And then I was like, I don't, I don't even need anything at that point. Because I love this so frickin much that I am like, buzzing.

And the note that I always get is just just it's like a bottle of pop, let it open a little bit, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit, and then it can fizz at the end. But I was going like this in like, verse two, because I just am so excited to be there. And I genuinely, genuinely always thought that would be the case.

[57:05] Kevin Bianchi: We've heard that Wizard and I is like the worst song to actually have to do right out of the gate.

[57:10] Lucie Jones: That's across the board, every alphabet is like the Wizard and I is kind of the worst song to sing.

[57:14] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, I mean, who does that? Who who wants to do that at like 2.30 in the afternoon? It's insane.

[57:22] Lucie Jones: It's insane. I mean, I've only been here for three weeks, but sometimes I go out and I'm like, I'm fine. This is great. And then I go with me. And I'm like, and then I'm like, shit, that was the first song. But I mean, most of the time it is fine. Because look, I have a fantastic vocal coach who has taught me to navigate tiredness and, you know, vocal fatigue and all of that, like, technical stuff. But I just love it. I love the song so much. But yeah, I think I am currently a no good deed alphabet, because it surprised me. And I, it's the song that you don't audition with.

[58:05] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, yeah, sure.

[58:05] Lucie Jones: It's the song that you're never asked to sing in concerts, because it doesn't make sense. It's, it's the song that you know, I've sung it in my kitchen, who hasn't? Am I right? But it's the one that you just, we've released a face to face experience with it until we're in the show, or we're seeing the show, you know?

[58:23] Kevin Bianchi: It also feels like the biggest acting moment.

[58:25] Lucie Jones: Yeah, there's a lot in there. And I think it can be really overplayed as well. And it's really quite nice for the moments of it to just completely drop away for her to be surprised by herself and surprised by the thought processes that are going on for her. Like, let all of us be agreed. Yes, it can be this terrifying, dark thing. But it can also be, oh my god, let them, yeah, let them have it. And then the strength builds. And then it's, I promise you, I'm not going to do this. Do you know what I mean? So there's like a number, I'm not settled yet. I don't, I don't know exactly what I want in each moment of the show. And I'm still playing, and I'm being given the freedom to do that, you know, with my, with my choices and my thought processes.

[59:04] Kevin Bianchi: How have you been settling into the role? Because we're still fresh.

[59:07] Lucie Jones: It's really hard. No harder than I imagined it being. But just living it is, yeah, last Sunday matinee, which is our final show of the week. I finished No Good Deed, and I came off stage to Troy, my dresser. And I said, Troy, my limbs hurt. He's like, yeah. I was like, yeah, no, they like hurt. And he's like, yeah.

[59:29] Kevin Bianchi: Is it the hardest role you've done thus far?

[59:31] Lucie Jones: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. But I knew it would be. And when I feel tired, and when I feel like, oh, God, I'm like, I smile. I genuinely I'm a psychopath for it. Because I want, I wanted that. I wanted the difficulty. And I wanted to feel what that was like. And, and I love the challenge of it. I haven't done it.

[1:00:18] Lucie Jones: You've been a Wicked fan prior to booking the role. Did you feel any sort of pressure to do the options or do the riffs? Like, I imagine that had to be, like, factoring into your brain.

[1:00:29] Yeah. Interestingly, I can't. I'm not permitted to, let's call a spade a spade here. It's a big part of the experience of seeing the show for some people. But for many, many, many people, they've never seen it. And so it's, I've been, you know, I've sold this dream which I absolutely buy into of, he wrote this masterpiece. And there are a few moments where we are allowed, we as everyone, not just me, have been allowed by Stephen to opt up or to change or to do this. And they ask very specific moments for us as the show here in the UK. I don't know what it's like in the States at the moment. And I'm actually really grateful for that whilst I'm settling in here. I think it's a phenomenal score.

And the way the underscore works with the text and the way that everything is just curated around the music and the story and these moments, it doesn't necessarily always need extra. And I've seen extra and loved it, don't get me wrong, if there's reason for it. If there's, you know, storytelling reason behind why we're changing these notes. But it's just not the way they want it. So I've absolutely bought into that. And I'm doing a rehearsed version of the show, which I'm really enjoying. I have had a few naysayers. Oh, you're so boring. Oh, why can't you do this alphabet riff that Rachel did? Or this girl on the tour did this thing. Like I've had DMs of people sending me riffs, like do this one. People are awful.

[1:02:11] At stage door, please, can you do this riff tonight? Like, no, I never do. I'm doing what I've been told to. But the difficulty is here is that I am a person that has done that in the past. And I've done it too. I mean, I didn't freaking dream the dream. I opted up, I changed it slightly. But I was told and asked by the producers to do that. And that was part of me being in the show. It's not that way here. I'm one in a line of many, many women who will play this role. And it works. It works. So let's do what works, you know. I don't feel like I'm missing out necessarily, by not being able to do those things, especially when I'm, you know, singing it into my voice and my body. And I've not had too many people, you know, bashing down my door telling me that it's...

[1:03:02] I feel like the general consensus of Lucy Jones's alphabet is we're all so excited. We love it so much. She's incredible.

[1:03:08] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, we're all rooting for you.

[1:03:10] Oh, that's nice. That's nice to hear.

[1:03:13] Lucie Jones: Lucy, this has been so fun. We have to do this again when your contract is over. I feel like that'll be a really cool journey to witness.

[1:03:21] Yeah, totally. Thank you so much for having me. I love the podcast. I think you two are brilliant. I feel like I've probably just said loads of stuff to you because for a lot of my Waitress tour last year, I was listening to you in the car. And like, you're my pals. I feel like I trust you. And like, I know you. Do you know what I mean? I feel the same about Dex Shepard and Monica Padman on freaking Armchair Wrecks. I feel like if I bumped into you on the street, I'd be like, hey, guys. How goes it? Do you know what I mean? Like, it's insane. And what you're doing for the show and for actors and fans alike is just amazing. And I will continue to listen to you for as long as you go. I think it's brilliant.

[1:03:57] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, thank you.

[1:03:59] Quincy Brown: Thank you so much.

[1:03:59] Lucie Jones: You're so welcome.

[1:04:01] Kevin Bianchi: Appreciate it.

[1:04:02] Lucie Jones: Have a great day.

[1:04:08] Quincy Brown: What a splendiferous interview, Kevin.

[1:04:11] Kevin Bianchi: Come on, splendiferous. I agree. I mean, I'm not gonna like talk about it like it just happened. But that whole day, it was Tuesday, 2WO's day, like 2-22-22. So it was like a big energy day to begin with. And I feel like it was a real good day for us, too.

[1:04:26] That's interesting you say that, because yeah, I feel the same. We did the interview. I was feeling really good. And I was like, oh, I'm like really feeling the vibes today.

[1:04:39] Yeah, yeah, the vibes were good. And like, even once we hung up with Lucy, like you and me talked for a couple minutes, and it was just like everything was vibrating at the right frequency that day.

[1:04:50] And we got to talk to Helen Wolfe, too.

[1:04:52] Kevin Bianchi: We got to talk to Helen Wolfe. She opened that door and said, it's good to see me, isn't it?

[1:05:00] Quincy Brown: They're so cute. I want them to start a podcast. They were so-

[1:05:02] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, that'd be fun. They did have like a cute chemistry.

[1:05:07] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[1:05:08] Okay, wait, wait, wait, before we get into like the nitty gritty of it all, we have to acknowledge that Samantha Barves told her about our podcast.

[1:05:16] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, baby. I'm like, are you kidding me?

[1:05:21] Quincy Brown: Okay, what was like biggest thing for you from that interview?

[1:05:24] Something that struck me in this conversation was we have now encountered quite a few Alphabuzz who are like, yeah, like, I'm not really a musical theater person. Like musical theater is just my job. And we have also encountered a few now Alphabuzz who are like fans of musical theater.

[1:05:47] Yeah.

[1:05:48] Quincy Brown: And I just think that's such an interesting crossroads that like, those two types of people are the types of people who find themselves at like the apex of musical theater.

[1:06:00] Do you think there's a difference between the actresses who are like musical theater is not my jam and the actresses who are like, I love it, I'm obsessed with it?

[1:06:09] Kevin Bianchi: I think so. It's like if those are the two extremes, I think it's the people in the middle who will tell you that the role is the most difficult. Because it's like the people who are like chill about it and the people who are like so happy to be there that are going to like breeze through it because they've got a different adrenaline. But I think like, am I making sense?

[1:06:33] Quincy Brown: No, yeah. Because if you're chill about it, then you're chill about it. If you're so happy to be there, you're not going to say it's so difficult because

[1:06:39] Kevin Bianchi: Because you're like

[1:06:40] Quincy Brown: To be fair, Lucy Jones did say this is the hardest role she's done.

[1:06:44] Kevin Bianchi: Correct. I mean, I don't mean it's not difficult. I just mean, like, both of those parties have expressed like a certain ease with the role, even though they're coming at it from two different energies. Quincy, what's something that you liked about that interview?

[1:07:00] I don't know if it's like the thing for me, but like something that became very apparent as we talked to her, which we talked a little bit about in the intro is like, the perspective that Lucy Jones has of herself in like the context of musical theater. If you look at her resume, you have Elle Woods, you have Maureen, you have Molly in Ghost, you have Elphaba, you have Jenna in Waitress, you have Fantine, you have Cosette, all iconic musical theater roles, which is why I'm bringing it up again. It's insane that she was surprised that we knew who she was, especially when you think about the roles that she's played. These are roles that sentimental men specifically would be obsessed with. You know what I'm saying? Like, these are all roles in musicals that are on my top 10 list.

[1:07:46] Yeah.

[1:07:48] Quincy Brown: And so, I don't know, Lucy, I'm just, I love it. I love the humbleness.

[1:07:54] Kevin Bianchi: But you're a star, baby.

[1:07:56] Quincy Brown: You're a star, baby.

[1:07:57] Kevin Bianchi: Big star.

[1:07:58] Quincy Brown: She is a musical theater girlie, and I love it.

[1:08:01] To kind of view, I mean, she told us she went into audition for Wicked for the first time, pretty much right at the same time that her theater career was starting, which was 11 years ago, which is insane that she's been on this journey for that long. But then to look at everything she's done, and then think of it in the context of, that was her 20s. She's my age.

[1:08:30] That's super impressive.

[1:08:31] Quincy Brown: Between 19 and 30, she did all that work. She did all those shows, all those contracts.

[1:08:37] Kevin Bianchi: That's incredible.

[1:08:39] Quincy Brown: She has a career.

[1:08:40] Kevin Bianchi: She has a career, mama. When we were playing Elphaba with her, and she was saying that she doesn't need a justification for The Wizard and I, because it's like she's been on that journey to get to the show. And to me, immediately, I was like, that's how Stephanie J Block felt like she could just do I'm Not That Girl because her Wicked journey was reflective of that song.

[1:09:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, and I thought it was interesting that she brought up how Wizard and I and Defying Gravity do kind of work in a concert setting, which my hot take is I would prefer, any Elphabas are listening, I would prefer an Elphaba do The Wizard and I in concert than Defying Gravity. And that might be a bias. But for me, The Wizard and I hits out of context more than Defying Gravity does. Defying Gravity, to me, needs a little bit of like the frills and stage magic to really sell the song. Maybe we should start singing No Good Deed in cabaret settings. Let's just like, make a statement.

[1:09:41] Quincy Brown: Let's normalize it.

[1:09:42] Kevin Bianchi: At this point, we can sing any Wicked song out of context because Wicked is the context.

[1:09:46] Quincy Brown: Put that on a t-shirt. Wicked is the context.

[1:09:50] Kevin Bianchi: She talked about no one really knew what to do with her casting wise.

[1:09:54] Quincy Brown: What is your take on all of that?

[1:09:56] Because I feel like you have more of like a casting brain.

[1:09:59] Kevin Bianchi: I think it is easy for an actor and a casting office to make a relationship when the actor has like a very clear strength, like a like a standout strength, like a type.

[1:10:12] Yeah. And so I think like with somebody like Lucy or like we've heard we heard Donna Vivino say this, like we've even heard like Keri St. Louis say this. When you can like straddle a line like that, it's a little hard, I think, for casting to like put you in a bucket.

[1:10:26] Quincy Brown: So then when like a role comes up and they're like, oh, we'll pull from this bucket. If you're not in either of them, you know, obviously in the bucket.

[1:10:36] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, I mean, the you want to show them that you can exist in the world for somebody like Lucy. That's her moment to say, like, no, look, I can do this.

[1:10:46] Quincy Brown: I can also do this. You think of me as this.

[1:10:49] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[1:10:51] Quincy Brown: Quincy, let's hear from a listener.

[1:10:52] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, let's do it.

[1:10:54] Dearest Darlingus, Kevsey and Quincycle, if you could do any ensemble track in Wicked the Musical, which one would it be and why?

[1:11:07] So that question came to us from Bree, who is, I would say, like a staple in the Wicked fandom community.

[1:11:14] Kevin Bianchi: Staple.

[1:11:16] Quincy Brown: Honestly, like a day one of the pod, like she's been here and she's like been here, been here, like she's been here.

[1:11:23] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I know your answer.

[1:11:26] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, you probably do.

[1:11:27] My answer is off the bat, the Ribbon Dancer.

[1:11:31] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[1:11:33] Quincy Brown: And let me tell you, it's because the last time I saw Wicked, I wish I knew his name, but he was a black bald man and he was doing his thing.

[1:11:39] And I was like, oh, my God, that looks like me.

[1:11:43] And then I was like, oh, my God, wait, I'm going to pay attention.

[1:11:49] And then I was like, oh, my God, this is a fun part.

[1:11:51] And then I was like, oh, my God, representation matters.

[1:11:54] Kevin Bianchi: No.

[1:11:55] Quincy Brown: I know this isn't a realistic answer, but I would choose like some terrible green blizzard throughout the land she flies.

[1:12:06] Kevin Bianchi: Would you vibrato or would you straight tone?

[1:12:07] Quincy Brown: Oh, vibrato, baby.

[1:12:09] Full spin. From the get go?

[1:12:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:12:12] Quincy Brown: Kevin, part two to this question.

[1:12:14] What ensemble costume do you like the best?

[1:12:19] Kevin Bianchi: I want an Ozdust costume.

[1:12:21] Quincy Brown: Ozdust dress, not suit, and it's like the black dress with, like, the skirt that kind of juts out.

[1:12:29] Is it one of the dun-dun, dun-dun?

[1:12:32] Kevin Bianchi: Tablo, Tablo girlies.

[1:12:34] Quincy Brown: Yeah, I want to Ozdust Tablo girly.

[1:12:36] A Dancing Through Life Tablo girly.

[1:12:38] That's what I want to be.

[1:12:39] Kevin Bianchi: I love the costume that's like the male presenting student at S.H.I.S. who has like the blazer on top and then the skirt on the bottom.

[1:12:43] Quincy Brown: I feel like really fit a S.H.I.S.

[1:12:48] Kevin Bianchi: I really do think you're made to like be in the Wicked production in some capacity.

[1:12:53] Quincy Brown: You just kind of have the look, you know?

[1:12:55] Kevin Bianchi: I look like a goat.

[1:12:57] Quincy Brown: So that was our Kevzie and Quinsicle for this week.

[1:13:00] We would love to hear from you.

[1:13:02] Send us a voice memo with your question.

[1:13:04] Our email address is sentimentalmenpod at gmail.com.

[1:13:09] Give us some juicy stuff.

[1:13:11] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, does it have to be Wicked?

[1:13:13] Quincy Brown: If you want it to be Wicked, that's great. But just letting you know, that's not like the confines of the...

[1:13:17] Kevin Bianchi: Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[1:13:18] Kevin Bianchi: Kevin, really fun episode, really special conversation.

[1:13:22] Terrific.

[1:13:22] Quincy Brown: Lucy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[1:13:24] Yeah, thanks, Lucy.

[1:13:26] And of course, thank you all for listening.

[1:13:30] I hope you had a great listening experience.

[1:13:32] And if you did, we would love it if you told us about it in an Apple Podcasts review.

[1:13:38] Please.

[1:13:39] A rating, a review.

[1:13:41] Tell a friend.

[1:13:43] A follow, a subscribe.

[1:13:45] And subscribe to our green circle if you want more content.

[1:13:48] TTYL.

[1:13:49] Bye.

[1:13:50] Roll the credits.

[1:13:51] Bye.

[1:13:54] You've been listening to Sentimental Men.

[1:13:56] This episode was produced and edited by your hosts, Quincy Brown and Kevin Bianchi.

[1:14:02] You can reach us at sentimentalmenpod at gmail.com or on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at sentmenpod.

[1:14:09] You can support the pod by leaving us a rating or review or by subscribing.

[1:14:14] Subscribers get early access to our regular episodes, monthly bonus episodes and get added to the Sent Men green circle, which is literally our close friends on Instagram.

[1:14:26] Thanks to Julia DiMarzo for our thrillifying artwork.

[1:14:29] And thanks to you for tuning in.

[1:14:31] Till next time, I'm Quincy.

[1:14:33] And I'm Kevin.

[1:14:35] She was that GIF of like, I'm going to give the gays everything they want.

[1:14:39] I was literally Lucy deciding to bring her laptop to work yesterday.