This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast, the podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from on stage mishaps to career-defining moments, hosted by thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:14] Eliza Gunther: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives, and more.

[0:21] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast. Today we are joined by musical theatre performer Jahla Black.

[0:28] Tori Bullard: Before we get started, I would like to acknowledge that I am on Tobaland.

[0:31] Eliza Gunther: And I am on Gadigal Land, the traditional custodians of the land on which we work, live, and record.

[0:37] Tori Bullard: And we recognise that sovereignty was never ceded. Jahla is a proud, queer, trans, non-binary actor, writer, and graduate from the Queensland Conservatorium, Griffith University, with a Bachelor of Musical Theatre.

[0:49] Tori Bullard: In 2022, Jahla filmed a guest role on Bump Season 3 with Stan and the supporting role of Ash in Mickey vs. the World with ABC and is currently shooting a TV series to air on Channel 9 in 2024. Passionate about bringing queer stories to the stage.

[1:05] Tori Bullard: In 2022, they performed in Little Triangle's Queer Suntime Cabaret, Isn't it Queer? And last year made their main stage debut in the Australian tour of Jagged Little Pill. Most recently, they performed in the Australian premiere season of Bearded the Musical. Please welcome to the mic, Jahla.

[1:23] Jahla Black: Hello.

[1:25] Tori Bullard: Hi.

[1:25] Jahla Black: Hello.

[1:27] Eliza Gunther: How are you?

[1:28] Jahla Black: Good.

[1:29] Eliza Gunther: How are you?

[1:30] Jahla Black: Good. Very excited to be here.

[1:32] Tori Bullard: We're very excited to have you. We feel like we're getting the last bit of the triangle of your beautiful friendship group.

[1:40] Jahla Black: Well, that's it. Hey, I just had FOMO. They've both been on. My two besties, the beautiful Chelsea and Ren. They've both been on, and I was like, I think it's my turn, actually. Where's my attention?

[1:52] Jahla Black: And now who you are. Hey!

[1:54] Jahla Black: And I'm very excited to be here.

[1:56] Tori Bullard: Well, thank you so much.

[1:57] Jahla Black: Of course.

[1:58] Tori Bullard: Recently, you actually finished performing the Australian premiere of Bearded the Musical. What was that rehearsal process like? And how are you going? Is it is how are you feeling about it all?

[2:10] Jahla Black: Yeah, well, it's all done now. So we just closed on Friday night, which was super fun. The rehearsal process was like quite interesting. It was my first time being on like a new musical. And it was really fun. It was a lot of like development in the room and like figuring out the character together.

[2:28] Jahla Black: Because I was the first non-binary person to play this character, and like my character Kelly started as a woman at the beginning of the process, like a like butch dyke lesbian woman. And then over the period of the rehearsal process, um, Nick, the director kind of said to me, Hey, do you reckon this character is actually non-binary? Like, I think the way you're playing it, and like I think it might be really important to like tell that story. Like, what do you think? And I was like, Slay, I'm so in actually.

[3:01] Jahla Black: Um, so like that was really fun to kind of have that whole arc of like taking the character from one place to another. But yeah, it was a really fun rehearsal process and really collaborative with obviously Sean and Nick, the two writers, because Sean played the lead in the show, played Ace, and Nick directed the show as well. So they were super involved through the whole process, as you would be as a writer on a new work.

[3:25] Jahla Black: But um, yeah, it was really fun and really joyous to like be a part of new queer work, which obviously is like so close to my heart. Um, but it was beautiful to like see during the show week how much it affected all like the little trans babies and like the little queer teens who came to see the show, and like we did a full show, and like you could just hear there's like this kiss between my character Kelly and Bet who is um like the protagonist of the show, and um Beck who plays Bet when we did our little stage kiss right at the end of the show in the school's show.

[3:36] Jahla Black: You could just hear all the little queer babies go and it was so cute, and there was no applause, it was just like a collective gasp. And it was like, oh my gosh, this is so worth it, you know? Like, this is why we do it. And that's why new work is so important.

[4:24] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[4:24] Jahla Black: Like for people to like see themselves on stage, and that's my favorite thing about Australian new work.

[4:31] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[4:31] Jahla Black: You gotta champion it.

[4:33] Tori Bullard: Absolutely.

[4:35] Eliza Gunther: I agree.

[4:36] Jahla Black: I agree. And I mean, people went all the way to Frankston for it, so and we had a sold-out season.

[4:41] Tori Bullard: Amazing.

[4:42] Jahla Black: So it's like people are hungry. I feel like we have the most queer theatre in the world, like queer new theatre that's being seen in the world. The more I think about it, like I feel like I see so many new works coming out of you know the West End and Broadway, but they're just they're not queer. They're just I think kind of normal.

[4:59] Eliza Gunther: Totally.

[5:02] Jahla Black: I think Australians are really pushing for diversity because we've had probably the least diversed, diverse industry for such a long time.

[5:14] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[5:14] Jahla Black: Because I mean, Australia is like not necessarily as diverse as like England and New York, um, as a country, but I think we're so hungry for it now, and we're so passionate about making it happen because we've been so behind the times for so long.

[5:34] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[5:35] Jahla Black: So I feel like it's it you're so right. It's really beautiful to see Australian work kind of leading that cause.

[5:42] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, absolutely.

[5:43] Jahla Black: It's so important to not only have new work and new Australian work, but new queer work because we do we, you know, there's nothing worse than growing up and not seeing yourself on stage or represented in TV or in film.

[5:56] Jahla Black: So having that opportunity now is so important for the next generation of young people, young performers, young people that are gonna be part of the queer community to be able to see themselves on stage and understand that it's okay to be themselves, and you know, it's a little additional step in their journey that we might not have had or that we didn't have growing up.

[6:17] Jahla Black: Um because I think even for our generation, you know, it was definitely more common, but it still it still wasn't a thing that was like the norm, or it wasn't, you know, people would talk about it a little bit more openly, yeah.

[6:32] Jahla Black: But it would it wasn't like oh that's just normal. It was kind of like, oh, let's let's let's move on from that topic. Thank you.

[6:39] Eliza Gunther: Well, I mean, gay was a thing when we were growing up, but like being trans was like, you know, in my mind being I used to watch this like um this one like HBO series called I'm Jazz or something, and it was about this little trans girl.

[6:56] Jahla Black: Yeah do you know the one I'm talking about?

[6:58] Jahla Black: And I would watch it and watch it over and over again, and I was like, I don't know, I just found it really interesting. And it was because it was the only trans person like on mainstream media, and it wasn't even really that mainstream. I watched it on YouTube, you know?

[7:12] Jahla Black: Yeah, but like yeah we just didn't have any like trans representation whereas like kids coming up nowadays like it's so I feel so honored to have been like a trans person on stage even though it's like what I've been in the industry for like two years but like to have been someone for a little trans baby out there who's been like oh my god you know look at them they're trans and like they're doing it it's otherworldly I had an experience semi recently um in my muggle job uh I wrote a play last year that was about um somebody coming out as trans which darling you were part of the first reading for yes um and I didn't even know that was part of my first reading for it um and played the role of August so I was like I wrote these characters I don't remember the member sorry I do that too um and um not long after that one of my little work children she said to me hey after and it's really weird because I'm super awkward talking about my work and they're also just a little bit awkward in general um and I was like hey just so you know um seeing that made me realize that I am maybe a woman and that I'm maybe trans and I was like oh Bubba okay that's why you do it and it's crazy to think that something that I wrote had that effect on you.

[8:46] Eliza Gunther: Well, that's why it's so important, right? Like, you see, we see like straight cis stories, straight cis white stories constantly on our TVs.

[8:58] Jahla Black: Like it in mainstream media, it's the thing that we see over and over and over again. So when somebody sees a trans story and they're a trans person, but maybe they don't realize it's that like hit of emotion that they're like, oh my god, like that's me. And that's why it's such like a I think so many people have like such a shocking moment of like realization because it's so just like not out there.

[9:21] Jahla Black: 100%.

[9:23] Eliza Gunther: So obviously, you started out studying music theatre at the Queensland Conservatorium at Griffith University. How did you find you grew as a performer there? And what kind of hurdles did you have to overcome during your study?

[9:37] Jahla Black: Yeah, I find it so interesting talking about like my time at the con because I was so different. I was a little girly pop musical theatre baby, had a long ponytail, and I wore my Lululemon.

[9:50] Jahla Black: Oh, can't think of anything worse now. I was a tight and crop top baby, and I was like, I don't know why I feel so uncomfortable in this, but I'm gonna rock it anyway. Idiot. Silly. Oh my goodness.

[10:05] Jahla Black: Yeah, you get into third year and then you get to wear colour, and that's like, wow, everyone goes ham on the like we're all in the matching set. So funny.

[10:16] Eliza Gunther: So funny. Are you in third year this year?

[10:18] Jahla Black: Yeah.

[10:19] Eliza Gunther: Ah, so fun.

[10:20] Jahla Black: Yeah.

[10:21] Jahla Black: Oh, third year was this. Good fun.

[10:23] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[10:23] Jahla Black: Um, well, sort of. I want to hear about it.

[10:26] Jahla Black: Yes, sorry. So it was like good, it was just, yeah, I think the con was really great for like developing my skills, of course.

[10:35] Jahla Black: Um, yeah, but I think like whenever I talk about it to anybody now, I kind of say like the biggest thing I learned from the con was how to work hard and critically look at myself.

[10:49] Jahla Black: So I think like I had a few hurdles just in the way of like I had a really bad injury in first year, so I didn't dance for the first half of first year and was on like crutches for 10 weeks, which was not slay, and then in third year, I was COVID year, so I was 2020 grad, and um so we we were supposed to do Wicked, and then which I mean I probably would have gotten nodes from anyway, but you know, um we it didn't end up happening, and we did a different show.

[11:21] Eliza Gunther: Um which role were you cast in?

[11:24] Jahla Black: I was supposed to be Elphaba.

[11:25] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god, I had a feel I was like Elphaba, yeah.

[11:28] Jahla Black: Yeah, so me, Nina and Chelsea were supposed to be Elphaba.

[11:32] Jahla Black: Um which was would have been so fun, but you know, that's the way the cooking crumbles, it didn't happen, and um, but it was really bizarre finishing. Well, not that I finished on online, but like doing a large chunk of third year online was quite a challenge.

[11:49] Jahla Black: Um but I mean it makes you stronger and whatever. But I think like it's so yeah, I don't know, it's so interesting for me to look back because I'm just like I was such a different person, and I feel like I've learnt so much more about myself since then, and like my craft is so different since being at the con.

[12:10] Jahla Black: Like the con definitely grew my skill set, and like I'm a better dancer, I'm a better singer, I'm a better actor, because of it. But I think I the the notes that I always got was like, you're you're so talented, you're so incredible, like you're doing such great work, but there's always just something missing, and I got that all the way through, all the way through until third year, and then I remember we were doing elegies at the beginning of third year, and um it would it was like my favorite show to do.

[12:37] Jahla Black: I was so connected to the piece. I was playing this mother of these two kids who passed away of breast cancer, and I had someone in my life who was like my second mum who passed away with breast cancer, and so it was like this whole very personal piece, and we were all super we all got really close during it and close to the director, and it was really beautiful. And I remember there was one performance of that where one of the acting teachers was like, "You finally hit it, you finally like got past that thing in your brain." But that was literally the only time in the entire course where someone was like, "Yes, that was you completely in the character." Whereas since coming out as trans, I like that's what I'm good at.

I'm good at like immersing myself in a character, and I'm good at like giving it my all, and it's so interesting because before coming out, I was like getting through to the final round of everything, but not getting anything, and then as soon as I came out, I started getting things, so it's like, yeah, I don't know. I find it so bizarre to look back on my time at the con because I'm like, yes, it was so amazing and so incredible, but I feel really disconnected to it because I feel like a different person, but it was amazing, and I loved it, you know.

[13:49] Eliza Gunther: Oh, yeah, but there's definitely like sometimes you can't find those things out about yourself in such a pressure cooker environment because you're trying to just like totally.

[13:59] Jahla Black: I don't know, everything's so bang bang bang bang bang, yeah. And so sometimes, like actually letting things settle, then you find out who you are, and it seems like you've you've kind of found that post uni, which is like a really beautiful thing.

[14:13] Tori Bullard: Totally. Because it's so stressful when you're in the environment and you're going through the hurdles of like, I don't know.

[14:19] Jahla Black: Yeah. You go, oh, I gotta get an agent.

[14:22] Tori Bullard: I've got to.

[14:24] Jahla Black: Yeah, I think I was really lucky. I was really lucky on that point because the end of third year, I signed with my agent pretty much straight away and I'm still with them and they're amazing. I'm obsessed with them. So I was really lucky, like on all of that stuff. Like I didn't have a super amount of like end of third year stress. I think it was more just like I don't know, I was like flailing in like figuring out who I was. So I never really like felt connected to anything, I suppose. But I think like a lot of my friends who have like just graduated, like the year who's just gone, because they were the first years when I was in third year. I'm quite close with do you know Jack Ingram?

[15:05] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, yeah, Jack.

[15:06] Jahla Black: So we have had a couple of conversations where they're like, "Oh my god, I don't know what I'm doing, like, oh the world is so scary," and I'm just like, "Oh babe, like you have another thing coming if you think you know everything yet." Like you have like I'm three years out of the con now, and I'm still learning things that I could never have learnt in an institution. Like, it's just not the environment where you can truly flourish and become yourself. Like it's so beautiful to learn all of those skills, but I just think that like post-institution, you learn more about your craft and who you are.

[15:42] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely.

[15:43] Jahla Black: Yeah, because you do need to learn those skills, like you it's a really great place to go to learn all the skills, get the singing technique, the dance, the acting, all that stuff. But I do get what you mean. Like when you actually start living your life and discovering who you are and being your own person away from being like musical theatre is my 24-7. Um and then you go to oh wait, I have more than that. Life is life is is more than just musical theatre.

[16:12] Tori Bullard: Yeah, totally uni is great, it's not for everyone. It is great, it has a lot of pros and cons. But yeah, the most time that you actually learn about being a performer is when you actually leave and actually do the thing that you've been training to do because it's not ever going to be like what you thought it was going to be.

[16:31] Jahla Black: No, and honestly, I learned I feel like I learned so much more on my like first gig than I did in uni. Like I couldn't have learnt those lessons unless I had uni, but do you know what I mean? Like it's all it all culminates in each other. In terms of like your transition post uni, um, into like the professional industry. Was it kind of seamless for you, or did you come across like some challenges when you came out um into the industry itself?

[17:03] Jahla Black: I mean, I've yeah, I've kind of already said it, but it was like really interesting. I like had a pretty good end of third year transition. Like I signed with my agent quite quickly and decided to move to Melbourne, and that was all going quite well. And I was like auditioning for a lot of things and like getting through to the final round for most things, but not like getting anything. And then COVID hit like the second wave hit in 2021.

[17:30] Eliza Gunther: Oh yeah.

[17:31] Jahla Black: And I was in the Melbourne lockdown for three months and was like, what is gender? Oh my god. And just went through it. And um, that's when I I was just so lonely. And my friends in Sydney were like, "Why don't you just move to Sydney where you have more friends?" And I was like, "No, you're actually so right." So I did that, and then two days into being in Sydney, cut off my hair, and then came out as non-binary, and then slowly just like came more and more into myself kind of over those first six months after coming out. Kind of between like when I came out as they/them and then when I came out as they/he. It like just slowly, slowly got more and more me. And I think over those six months, I booked Bump, I booked Mickey, I booked Isn't it Queer? and I booked Jagged, and like all of those things, like one after the other.

Like I remember in so I came out in like October, November of 2021 as trans, and then in January, I booked Mickey vs the world and bump all in one week. And it was just like it was crazy, it was not so, and they were both like I mean Bump was a tiny little one line role. Like it was so funny. I loved it though. I was like, oh my god, it was so funny. Like it was a queer barista, and then Mickey vs the world was a non-binary character, and then Isn't it Queer was a non-binary character, and then Jagged was a non-binary character, like all these things, and like most things that I've gotten since have been queer content or trans content. I mean, they're kind of work in the same vein, but you know what I mean?

[19:12] Jahla Black: Yeah, so it's really interesting. My career didn't really start until I yeah, came out as trans. Because I think the more true to yourself you are, like the less you care what people think. So that like you know that like nervous like audition energy that you get. I think I just felt it so heavily before because I was like trying to prove something. Whereas like as soon as I came out, I think I was just like, "Oh I'll just do my best," and then I started getting things. Which also in itself is I think the thing that impacts auditions so much, is I feel like the less you care, like the less pressure you put on yourself for auditions, the better results you have both from the actual outcome and like in yourself.

Like if you put so much pressure on yourself for an audition and you come out and then it just sits with you for so long, and then regardless if it's successful or not, you it just whereas when you go in and you're like, "Well, I did my best and we'll see what happens," and then you can literally just let it go, and regardless of the outcome, that's not gonna impact you anymore.

[20:15] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, 100%. I agree with that, and that's I think what kind of happened. I just kind of like stopped caring so much, which like sounds really bad, but it's kind of really good because musical theatre can be unforgiving and a bit unrewarding at times. So I think I like stopped living my life for musical theatre and like started living my life for me, and whenever I got a gig, it was like a bonus, you know, rather than the other way around.

[20:45] Jahla Black: Absolutely.

[20:47] Eliza Gunther: Well, I don't know about you, Tori, but we might move into a game.

[20:51] Tori Bullard: Yeah, what do you feel?

[20:53] Jahla Black: Yes for it.

[20:54] Eliza Gunther: I'm kind of thinking we might go into our new game. So our new game is called Swipe Left or Right. And this is on little trends going around, or just things we're curious on if you would swipe left or swipe right.

[21:09] Jahla Black: Now, from memory, swiping left means bad.

[21:12] Eliza Gunther: It's bad.

[21:14] Jahla Black: Swiping right means it's good. If you've ever used Tinder, you know what it is.

[21:22] Eliza Gunther: I'm like.

[21:24] Jahla Black: Okay, so the first one is are you swiping left or swiping right on Australian Idol?

[21:30] Jahla Black: Oh, I'm actually swiping right. I think it's slay. I'm living for the TikTok content. I'm loving it. I feel like I watch, I like I don't actually watch it on TV, although I did a couple weeks ago. Um, I watched one episode on TV and then I was like, this slaps. Why do I love this? And then I like started seeing the videos on my TikTok, and I was like, this is actually really fun. And it feels nostalgic. Because as a kid I loved Australian Idol. Sorry, swipe right.

[21:58] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, love. I I'm kind of I don't know about anyone else, but on TikTok, I think I watch more movies and TV shows on TikTok than actual TV now.

[22:08] Jahla Black: Me too.

[22:09] Eliza Gunther: It's so bad. I'll just like watch it, and they always have that like weird, like instrumental underneath it that isn't actually in the movie.

[22:19] Jahla Black: Or there's like it's like a video playing of like a doctor procedural, and then underneath they're like making slime or something.

[22:28] Eliza Gunther: And I watch the slime video instead of the episode and you're just listening to the episode.

[22:33] Jahla Black: I've just found that I see so many like doctor Doctor Procedure, like Grey's Anatomy episodes, and I'm almost like, "Oh, maybe I should like watch," and then I like watch like two episodes of Grey's Anatomy, and I was like, "This isn't as good as what's on TikTok."

[22:43] Eliza Gunther: Okay, the next one is going to be swipe left or right on Doc Martin's.

[22:49] Jahla Black: Oh, right? I'm gay.

[22:51] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[22:52] Jahla Black: Obviously.

[22:53] Eliza Gunther: Exactly.

[22:54] Jahla Black: Why would I not?

[22:57] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, no.

[22:58] Jahla Black: But platform Doc Martins.

[22:59] Eliza Gunther: Oh, absolutely.

[23:01] Jahla Black: Absolutely. They've got the power.

[23:02] Eliza Gunther: They do.

[23:03] Jahla Black: The power I feel when I wear my platforms. Oh, I just stomp down and I like strap my stuff down the street. Maybe I'm wearing an awful outfit, but I don't care because I got my platform docks on.

[23:13] Eliza Gunther: Okay, what about I don't know, I'm interested. Camping.

[23:17] Jahla Black: Right.

[23:18] Jahla Black: Right. You're a camper.

[23:19] Jahla Black: I'm a camper. I grew up in Queensland. So my family, we like, I was like homeschooled for six months and we like camped around Australia. Like huge. Come from a camping family.

[23:27] Eliza Gunther: Wow.

[23:32] Jahla Black: I know. It's a bit bizarre. It's been off brand for me, really.

[23:35] Eliza Gunther: You know what? No, I can I 100% can see it.

[23:38] Jahla Black: Yeah.

[23:39] Eliza Gunther: 100%.

[23:39] Jahla Black: Well, you know, I feel like you're someone that really.

[23:41] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[23:42] Jahla Black: I'm like, I feel like you like being in nature.

[23:46] Jahla Black: Yeah, I do. I do like being in nature. Love.

[23:50] Eliza Gunther: Okay. The next one is jukebox musicals.

[23:55] Jahla Black: Oh. Oh, that's a hard one. I mean, it depends. It depends on the jukebox musical, but jukebox musicals as a concept, right? I think they're fun. I think they're usually lighthearted, except for Jagged Little Pill, obviously.

[24:11] Eliza Gunther: Um what are you talking about?

[24:14] Jahla Black: What are you talking about? But that's a really, really good one. Oh my god, didn't make me cry multiple times. It's hilarious. Imagine being in it every night.

[24:16] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god.

[24:23] Jahla Black: Crying. The trauma.

[24:25] Eliza Gunther: The trauma.

[24:26] Jahla Black: Oh my god, I actually was fully depressed for a month after we closed because I was like, this is like residual just trauma for like being around the sadness. So funny. Um, yeah, no, swipe right. I saw Anne Juliet the other night and it slays. And I saw, I also saw Moulin Rouge a little while ago for the first time. And although like some people are like, "Oh, it's bit on the nose." I'm like, you know what? I lean in. I think it's slay. I think it's funny. Also, I think it knows what it is, you know?

[24:57] Eliza Gunther: Oh absolutely.

[24:57] Jahla Black: Yeah. It's it knows that it's camp and that it's lit, it's a spectacle. It's like exactly so gaudy, but that makes it better.

[25:06] Eliza Gunther: Exactly.

[25:07] Jahla Black: I agree. And then Mamma Mia was the first musical I ever saw. So that holds a place in your heart.

[25:13] Eliza Gunther: It does.

[25:13] Jahla Black: Mamma Mia is a good idea.

[25:14] Jahla Black: I have a gripe with Mamma Mia sometimes. I like I really think for me it depends on the production that I'm seeing because I really do love the good ones. I mean, my best friend Chelsea Dawson's about to be in the new Australian tour. And I'm very, very excited. The love of my life. So that's gonna be good. It's gonna be that's gonna be brilliant. It's gonna be brilliant. I've never seen it live.

[25:36] Eliza Gunther: You've never seen it live?

[25:37] Jahla Black: Oh my god. No, I've only ever seen the movie. It's good. And so I'm very excited. I didn't get to see it last time. So I'm excited. It's still Mamma Mia. Like, that's the thing about Jukebox musicals. I'm like, I swipe right because they know what they are. Like they're never, it's never gonna be like groundbreaking work. But I kind of love that.

[25:55] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I agree, I agree.

[25:56] Jahla Black: No, the new one is gonna be amazing. I'm excited about that. I want to see like a pro version because I haven't seen a pro version yet. So I'm very excited about it. And I guess the last one, lucky last, is escape rooms.

[26:11] Eliza Gunther: Oh, left, easy left, hate them.

[26:14] Jahla Black: Oh my gosh, I wasn't expecting this. Do they cause you immense anxiety?

[26:18] Jahla Black: I would rather get a ketchup bottle and squirt it on my head than do an escape room. I would rather eat mustard and only mustard for the rest of my life. I don't know why I'm on the condiment train, but that's where we're going. I would rather eat mustard for the rest of my life than go to an escape room. I hate them. I hate them. They're awful. Anxiety, just like not enjoyable. I hate scary things.

[26:49] Eliza Gunther: Oh me too.

[26:50] Jahla Black: I will only sit through a horror movie for a date. I will not sit through a horror movie at any other time in life. I won't do it voluntarily at all. I hate it. I didn't realize escape rooms were scary. I mean, I've only done one. I've only done one. It caused me so much anxiety, the idea that even though I know when the time is up, I know that I'll still be allowed out. There's still this fear that, like, what if I'm just stuck in here? Oh, and I'm very close to friends. Oh, that just sounds like the I actually just have like tears in my eyes and think about it. It's the worst thing I can think of. I hate it. I have a actually gonna cry. I hate to cry so much. Oh my god. I actually make me cry now. Hopefully, it's so bad. I hate them.

[27:39] Jahla Black: I think the one, the one time I've ever done an escape room, I was so excited because I thought everybody loves escape rooms, it's gonna be great. I had a I like I didn't actually have a panic attack, but I felt like I was gonna have a panic attack. I was like scared and just trembling in the corner. I was like in a little ball, and I was like, you do it because I I can't even function. It was awful.

[27:58] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god.

[27:59] Jahla Black: Oh my god. I just took you on a ride just then.

[28:04] Eliza Gunther: I was not expecting that reaction.

[28:06] Jahla Black: Absolute trauma. The trauma. I hate it. It's just a beeping when they they go like you running out of time. Sorry, I'm really going in there. I'm just re-traumatizing. I mean, I literally only done one. And I just remember we the person, we must have been getting really close to the end, and I kept going back to I don't know, a painting or something. Being like, I was like certain that the answer to like the last thing was like in this painting. And the person came over the system and was like, it's there's nothing there. Please move on to something else. And I was like, oh, okay.

[28:40] Jahla Black: God damn it. I was like, it's fine. Well, jumping back into it, um, after the trauma that we've just caused you. Um, can you talk a bit on your experience, which you already kind of have a bit, but a bit on your experience as a trans person navigating the industry and what changes you have noticed and what changes you want to see?

[29:04] Jahla Black: Yeah, totally. I mean, I've already kind of spoken on my experience, like work-wise, but um I definitely have noticed through 2022, like there's definitely a shift towards making more space for trans people in commercial theatre. It's a constant conversation with casting panels for me to be like, do you feel comfortable doing this? Especially as a trans non-binary person. Like, I definitely identify more with the masculine, but obviously within a musical theatre realm, like I'm a Mezzo, so how do you kind of cast that? So it's a constant conversation as to being like, okay, well, where do I actually fit in this puzzle piece? Is there even a role that we could make work for me? Kind of even before I get in the room.

Mamma Mia has actually they were kind of the best about it. And maybe I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be talking about this, but whatever. I obviously didn't get the role, so who cares? Um I um I got an audition originally for Female Ensemble and it was like right after Jagged and right after American Idiot was cancelled, which I was supposed to be in. And then I was like, okay, time to like start auditioning for things again. And I was like, it was my first time kind of being in the industry with a professional gig under my belt, so like more people were seeing me for things. And so Mamma Mia was super keen to get me in the room, but I was like, I just feel a bit icky about going in for female ensemble, like especially in a show like Mamma Mia that is so gendered, I think I would just probably maybe want to die after wearing a floral dress on stage for 14 months. Like I just actually can't think of anything worse. So, like I would rather make coffees than do that. You know what I mean?

[30:29] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[30:29] Jahla Black: So I was like, I called my agent and I was like, look, I think I'm actually just really uncomfortable with doing that. Like I don't think I can do it. And she was like, that's fine. How about I just call the casting director and see what they say? And I was like, okay, I mean it's worth a shot. And so she did, and they were like, Look, I'm happy to see Jahla for whatever they want to be seen for. So I ended up going in for male ensemble, which was so slay. It was like the most euphoric day ever. Like being in the dance call with all the boys, and it was just like I was like, Yes, this is actually correct. I am where I need to be right now. And I slayed because I felt comfy. And then kind of like I got down to the final rounds, and it ended up being like a bit of a I I think it was like they weren't really sure where to put me, and then because of that, I like kind of didn't do my best, and you know, it just was what it was.

But it was kind of amazing to see that they were willing in such a mainstream commercial show, willing to see someone who is gender diverse, yeah, just to like see it as an option because I think two years ago nobody was even willing to see it as an option, and there are definitely shows that I've put forward for that just aren't willing to see it as an option, and I think there are things like Anne Juliet that's coming through that like my mate Riley is on, and like a bunch of other non-binary performers are on, and they're like doing amazing, and like Blake Applechvist is playing Romeo in it, and there's a heap of gender diverse performers in that show, and there's there's more and more happening.

[32:26] Jahla Black: I think what I want to see within the next five years is like more diversity in the ways of like how we cast roles. So, like, does Romeo have to be an AMAB person assigned male at birth, or could it be an AF trans man? Like, you know, is there a way that we can work casting so that people's gender identities are affirmed and we're seeing interesting casting choices in the same way that we're working towards racial diversity? Is there a way that we can work towards trans people being included in the industry? Because I think at the moment, like I look at musical theatre, the Australian musical theatre scene, I don't know a single trans man in musical theatre. I don't I know one trans woman, but not in commercial theatre.

Like she works more in like independent and she's a writer as well. So I'm just like, I wonder if over the next five years we can work towards inclusive casting, not just like non-binary diverse casting, like trans diverse casting. Um and I think that comes also with like new shows coming through like Bearded and Um like new writers coming through, like Andy Freeborn that we know, and um Cassie Hamilton, who I was just talking about, um, yeah, like seeing people like them writing things could be really cool, and I think that's where like new musical theatre comes through because obviously, like the traditional musical theatre that we're used to is super gendered, and like when it comes to voice types, it's really hard to like get a balance, and like obviously the general population will hear like a high voice and be like that's a woman and a low voice and be like that's man, but is there a way that we can like I don't know work towards a more inclusive industry? I think that's that's what I want to see happen, yeah.

[34:33] Eliza Gunther: No, it's so important. I think you're right. It's I don't think it's not doable with traditional music theatre. I think it just takes a lot of time and effort, and whether or not producers are willing to put that time and effort in really is it's one of those things we've said many many many times. It starts from the top and it will just way down.

[34:52] Jahla Black: And that's the thing, like with Mamma Mia, like it was just beautiful that they were willing to see it, you know, and they were they were there being like with open arms being like, Yep, what do you what do you want to be seen for? And it was a conversation, and they were like, you know, down the line we can have a conversation about costuming and how how can we fit you into this production? And like it didn't work out in the end, but I wonder if in the future something like that could work out.

[35:19] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, especially because they took that leap to affirm that for you.

[35:24] Jahla Black: Which has never happened before.

[35:26] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, it's like has it and you don't know if that's happened. Like it maybe they have done that with other performers in the past, but maybe this is the first time, and then after this time when they cast the next show, they it just like progresses that little bit more every time to where they are able to cast anyone for anything.

[35:45] Jahla Black: And I I do get what you mean though about like voice types and stuff. That's definitely a tricky, yeah, a tricky part of it, which is you know, if you're in a mask ensemble, you could sing in the key that you need to sing in. Do you know what I mean?

[35:57] Eliza Gunther: Totally.

[35:59] Jahla Black: Well, I mean, I've like I I've done it, like I played in Jagged Little Pill. The the track I did was a non-binary character, and I obviously sang I sang the soprano line, and um which is not me, but I did it anyway. Um, but like I was singing the soprano line and playing this little like lad, you know, this little like silly schoolboy. So like there is a way that you can do it. I think it's just like Jagged's a new musical, and it's you know, it needs to be written in it has it has more room, there's more room for growth, yeah, totally.

[36:36] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, so I think it's yeah, it's about just changing and growing as as the industry changes and grow grows, and for for the big producers to be willing to see people because there are big producers who aren't who just aren't willing to see trans performers, and that's sad, but it's getting better.

[36:55] Jahla Black: Yeah, that's yeah, and I mean, you made your professional debut in Jagged Little Pill.

[36:59] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, so exciting.

[37:01] Jahla Black: Uh how did that kind of process work? Because did you come in during new cast changes during its run? How did that work going in when the show's already on?

[37:13] Jahla Black: Yeah, it was pretty wild. Um, I so I came in for the final Sydney season, um, because Teo, who I took over from was doing another project, and um I yeah, I it was pr the I mean I think Tori, I remember telling you about this like as it happened, but yeah, it was like I had like kind of a really slow burn casting process over like two or three months, and then all of a sudden, two weeks out, it was like okay, you have a final callback, and I didn't heard anything in like a month. So I had the final callback, and it was like my first day in my office job, my new office job, and I was doing the callback in the office, and I was like, what the f the hell heck is happening?

[37:57] Jahla Black: Like, I just don't even know what's going on, and then um had to film everything that night again when I had a rehearsal for this I was doing um Mystery of Edwin Drude at the time, and so I went to rehearsals and then after rehearsals used the studio until like 11:30 p.m. at night, just like re-recording all of the stuff after that day, and then sent it in that night, and then um two days later had the gig, had to quit my job because four days after that I was starting. So the next Monday I started and then I learnt the show in seven days, six, six days, six days slay. That's what we called it. We learnt the show. So me, Henry Rolo, and um Robbie Mehica, we learnt the show in six days together.

And um and then tech it, and then I remember the first preview. We were like, I don't even feel like I know the show. Like we we just were I think it was like maybe my second run through. It might have been my first run through with all costumes and props. Like I wasn't even sure what costumes I wore in what scene. It was not so like it was the most hectic thing, but it was such a beautifully tight cast that everybody had everyone's back, and I felt very um supported and loved. And it was honestly, it felt like the perfect um first gig for me. Cause I I work quite well under pressure and I do learn things quite fast. So I felt like it was a good, like, here you go, kind of wall of fire industry experience for me to do.

[39:32] Eliza Gunther: Wow, did you even did you sleep?

[39:34] Jahla Black: No, not at all. Absolutely not. No. Went home and just was doing my like clapping dance, being like, oh my god, what am I doing? I remember seeing videos. Yeah, I was like, This is so silly.

[39:49] Eliza Gunther: Was that the hardest dance to learn in the whole show?

[39:53] Jahla Black: Yeah, there was that and like this one other like counterbate across the stage where I like travelled a really long way doing these weird steps. Like Jagged wasn't overly, like my track wasn't overly like it was really dancy, but it wasn't like hard dancing. Like there were no pirouettes, there were no high kicks. It was just like a bit bizarre coordination-wise. So I just like had to kind of work, I had to really slog away for those six days to like really get it. But um, I'm quite yeah, I'm quite lucky that I pick things up quite fast. So I think it was uh I was the right person for the job.

[39:53] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[40:32] Tori Bullard: Yeah it's so good. It's crazy that they literally you waited a month to hear back for that final callback and then they were like okay we need this right now.

[40:42] Jahla Black: It was wild. And then you're doing the show in a week.

[40:44] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. Have fun.

[40:46] Jahla Black: It was kind of fun though like it was a bit chaotic and I was like you know me I live for the chaos so I was like I'm in. Well I couldn't think about it. I couldn't like fit out I couldn't get anxious. It was just like okay I gotta sort out my life and I've got to start in four days and that's it. It's like when you leave an assignment to the last minute and you just have you you just don't have an option you just have to you just have to organize it and just has to be done and it has to be at the best that you can make it like it there's just like no other option.

[41:14] Tori Bullard: So it's kind of better that way than having like you know months and months and months of time to like you know prepare and like overthink everything that you're doing because you know you get to a point of preparedness where you then go oh is this oh and what I doing is actually is it actually good should I have trusted my first instinct should I completely rework everything that I'm doing.

[41:35] Jahla Black: Yeah it was very just like you gotta do it because you gotta do it and there's no time.

[41:40] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[41:41] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[41:43] Jahla Black: That's so affirming though.

[41:43] Eliza Gunther: Yeah because then you're then you're like wow I just like to show in six days and I just drew that.

[41:48] Jahla Black: Okay. I've actually done that a few I like it's been a silly little theme with me where I've learnt a couple shows in like five six days. I did this show in 2021.

[42:03] Jahla Black: Yeah, 2021. Yeah, it was before I came out. Um, called Lesbian Love Stories, and uh is it was at the local lesbians in Brisbane? It was fun, and it was like a bunch of monologues and a like it was a lot of text, and I had to learn it in five days, and I just did it because it was like one of those things where it's just wall of fire, and I don't know, my brain just like sticks to it. There's lots of things I'm not very good at, but learning things fast, I slay.

[42:29] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely. Call Jala, everyone.

[42:33] Jahla Black: That's funny. Well, we have our last little question for before we end the podcast for today, and it's just a silly little question. What's a this is really gonna put you on the spot, but what is one or two, or you know, as many as you'd like, dream roles that you have that you'd want to play if you could play anything, and in fact, you can play anything, and I can actually, and I will. Um I think I'd really love to play Bobby in Company, yeah. Yes, I really like get that character, I just get it. Um so silly at 25 years old. No, in like 10 years, I want to play that character. Um but honestly, other than that, I think it sounds silly, but like um, I think my dream role doesn't exist yet. Like, I think the more people write, and yeah, the more things like Bearded come out, that's when I think I'll be like, that's my dream role, and I just got to play it, and that's like so slay.

But I think before that, before Jagged Joe was my dream role, at the same time, I'm like, why? Only because they're a non-binary character. Like, like I love it, don't get me wrong, but it's not like in my mind, it's not a dream. Whereas like Bobby, like doing something like Sondheim, so beautiful, so like rich with um so many like different themes and stuff. That's yeah, what I really want to do. So yeah, I don't know. It doesn't exist yet, so sorry about it, please.

[44:13] Eliza Gunther: I think that's great.

[44:15] Tori Bullard: And that's the wonderful thing about new theater as well, and like getting to originate a dream role, I guess, in a sense as well. And getting to originate, like, I mean, not really originate Kelly, but kind of originate this version of Kelly was like it just made my heart sing. I loved it so much. So wonderful getting to work on new theatre. That's the best kind of work in my opinion.

[44:38] Jahla Black: I agree.

[44:39] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I agree. It's the best.

[44:42] Tori Bullard: Well, I guess before we uh wrap up for the day, we were gonna do a little bit of a bedtime story, which is a stage mishap or something that's gone wrong. Have you got a bedtime story for us?

[44:53] Jahla Black: Oh my god, have I got a bedtime story for you? Oh, here we go. Okay, so we were in like I think our final week of Jagged. I knew the show like the back of my hand, like I just it was just like running on a treadmill, you know. I just got on the train and I got off. Yeah, I didn't even have to really think about it anymore. But maybe I should have because I was standing side stage and I was at like the drink water bottle station, and it was like almost at the end of the show, and I knew that we had thank you, and then the finale to go. And um, I was standing there drinking, and I was like talking to Tim Draxel and I think Grace Smile. And I was like, this is so fun. I never get to talk to you guys at this point of the show.

Like, this is so great. Oh, it's so nice to like touch base. And then I hear Emily Nakomo start singing this line that I normally am behind her for. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm standing here because I'm supposed to be on stage. That's why I've never been here before. Because I'm supposed to be on stage right now. And I literally went to Tim and I was like, I'm supposed to be on stage. And then I went, my mic's on, and like grabbed my mic. Oh my gosh, it was the most embarrassing thing. And then after I like ran out to the stage, and everyone was like, What did you do? Because it's like one of those ones where they just we would just walk on, sing this song, and walk off. And I was in the middle in the front, like silly, silly silly Jala.

And everyone came off and they were like, Jala, where were you? And I was like, I was talking to Tim. I was talking to Tim sidestage. And then Pip, our stage manager, was like, you silly silly boy, what are you doing? And then after the show, we went on for the finale, and I was just pissing myself laughing at this point. I was like, oh whatever, what can I do about it? Like, it's just silly. Classic me ADHD brain, just like not knowing where the heck I am. And then um, as we came off, Leah, our director was Leah Howard, and she was just like, What happened, mate? And I was like, I'm so sorry. And she was like, You're an idiot. But luckily, everybody laughed at it, but I felt so guilty. I was like, oh my gosh, it's so bad.

[47:18] Tori Bullard: So that's like your worst nightmare.

[47:22] Jahla Black: I don't know. I have all these like, you know, like you have dreams where you're like on stage and you forget to go on stage, and you're like, luckily, I like it wasn't like a solo or anything. Like if it was a different song, it might have been a bit more of an issue, but it was luckily one of the ones where it was like it was just a walk on scene and walk off. So it wasn't a huge deal, but oh it was I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed.

[47:48] Eliza Gunther: It's such like a mortifying thing because you're just like yeah, especially when you realize, and it's not even like you were completely unaware. You were just like, wow, like we never get to like hang out and have this chat. It was like a reason for that.

[48:09] Jahla Black: It was that moment, and then the realization was like just it like it should have been in a movie. You know what I mean? Like it's one of those embarrassing moments in a movie where you watch this character just die inside and you go, Oh, I feel that so this really that's awful to watch. I can't do it.

[48:25] Eliza Gunther: It was one of those.

[48:26] Jahla Black: Yeah.

[48:27] Tori Bullard: So bad.

[48:28] Jahla Black: Amazing. Oh, that's too good. I love it. Thank you so much for that story. I loved it. That was an amazing bedtime story. And thank you so much for reaching out to us because we loved getting to talk to you so much and completing the little beautiful triangle of you three fabulous, fabulous people.

[48:48] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, we've been talking about completing it for a while too. So this was like serendipitous and it was amazing. I was like, no, it's actually my time.

[48:57] Jahla Black: No, it is, it was your time. The other two have had their time. Shine, it's mine.

[49:01] Eliza Gunther: Yes, love it.

[49:02] Tori Bullard: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat with us today. It has been absolutely phenomenal. And for everyone listening, please go and follow Jala on Instagram. It's just Jahla Black, which we will leave linked down below. Also, obviously, Bearded is closed, but you can still go and follow their Instagram, which I don't have the handle of right now. I'm gonna assume it's just maybe bearded musical.

[49:25] Jahla Black: I think it's um oh it will also be down below um to follow what they're doing because obviously it's um I have been I'm correct, it's just bearded musical.

[49:36] Tori Bullard: Yeah, it's just be bearded musical. Love that for me. Um being prepared. I think it'll I think it I think it's got some serious legs and some serious interest, and I think it'll be back.

[49:47] Jahla Black: Yeah, so yeah, I'm excited.

[49:50] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I've heard a couple things from it, it's very good, yeah.

[49:53] Jahla Black: And just support independent Aussie queer theatre because it's support from you guys and obviously, you know, massive producers would be fantastic. But community support is one of the biggest things because you know, you know, when you can sell out a show, it then gives that show a future.

[50:12] Tori Bullard: Um, but thank you so so much, Jala, again, for taking the time and coming on and talking to us today.

[50:18] Jahla Black: Thank you for having me.

[50:19] Tori Bullard: And until next time, you guys stay happy, healthy, and safe, and we will talk to you then.

[50:24] Eliza Gunther: Bye.