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[0:02] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:05] Tori Bullard: The podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from onstage mishaps to career defining moments.

[0:11] Tori Bullard: Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:15] Tori Bullard: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives and more.

[0:22] Tori Bullard: Hello friends, and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast for another one of our entertaining, informative, and occasionally opinionated deep dives.

[0:31] Tori Bullard: And for the first time in a while, we are all together.

[0:34] Tori Bullard: We have myself, Tori, and Resident Theatre trivia buff, Gareth Isaac in the house.

[0:40] Gareth Isaac: Hello, mates. Lovely to be back.

[0:42] Tori Bullard: And by in the house, we mean in a hotel in Western Australia.

[0:46] Tori Bullard: Look, we're all we're spread.

[0:48] Tori Bullard: We're spread far and wide.

[0:50] Tori Bullard: We are in this podcast.

[0:51] Tori Bullard: We've got Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth.

[0:53] Gareth Isaac: It's funny.

[0:53] Tori Bullard: Yes, we're doing alright.

[0:54] Tori Bullard: We're operating on three time zones and three brain cells.

[0:57] Gareth Isaac: Let's go.

[0:57] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that was that was a fun. I loved that you guys organized that because I looked at the two three time zones and went, mmm, I'm gonna see somebody else wants to organize that before I try to, because I can never get it right.

[1:10] Gareth Isaac: Time is just made up by big clock to sell watches.

[1:13] Tori Bullard: Exactly.

[1:14] Tori Bullard: So how are you enjoying Perth though?

[1:16] Gareth Isaac: I am. I'm having the time of my life over here. We're in our last three weeks of Mary Poppins as of today over at the Crown Theatre, and we're going into the nine show week.

[1:26] Gareth Isaac: Bit of chaos, but always happy to just put on the extra one for the school holidays.

[1:30] Tori Bullard: I think by the time this is out, you'll be finished.

[1:33] Gareth Isaac: Oh yes, I'll be I'll be jobless for a little bit.

[1:36] Gareth Isaac: Just for just for a little bit, but it's been announced now, so we can just say that you're in Greece.

[1:42] Tori Bullard: Yes, we can finally talk about the fact I'm going to be Eugene in the new Australian tour of Greece.

[1:47] Gareth Isaac: I love it! It's so exciting!

[1:48] Tori Bullard: It's it's a lot of fun. I didn't think at my age that I'd be doing Greece for the fourth time in my life, but you know what? At least I'm getting paid this time.

[1:56] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, exactly. Come on now.

[2:00] Tori Bullard: I love it. And you're doing it with Annalise, who um because I when I did Greece at uni, Annalise played Sandy and now is Sandy in the Grease Tour.

[2:10] Gareth Isaac: I think it's amazing. I can't wait to watch it. It's going to be incredible. I heard nothing but good things about Annalise's performance, so I can't wait to work with her.

[2:17] Tori Bullard: She's amazing and just like a really genuine human being, and I think that's really cool. I think you need good human beings in the rehearsal room.

[2:24] Gareth Isaac: So it's nice to see someone so generous in a leading role.

[2:29] Tori Bullard: It's just so fun.

[2:30] Gareth Isaac: Yeah.

[2:30] Tori Bullard: And yourself too.

[2:31] Gareth Isaac: I was gonna say, good people in a rehearsal room does not cover me.

[2:34] Tori Bullard: I'm terrible.

[2:35] Gareth Isaac: Why no, surely not?

[2:38] Tori Bullard: Yeah, no, he's pretty bad. Don't hire him.

[2:40] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, I'm a bit of a Javer.

[2:42] Tori Bullard: Well, we are talking about jukebox musicals today, which is gonna be really, really, really fun.

[2:48] Tori Bullard: But before we get started, we would like to acknowledge that I'm on tourable land.

[2:52] Tori Bullard: I am on Wujuk Nungar Land.

[2:54] Gareth Isaac: And I'm on Gadigaland, the traditional custodians of the land on which we work, live, and record, and we recognize that sovereignty was never ceded.

[3:03] Tori Bullard: Now, without further ado, let's kick off this new deep dive.

[3:07] Tori Bullard: Coming off the back of our look at the musical revival, we decided to slide into an adjacent topic that both unites and divides theatre goers worldwide.

[3:17] Tori Bullard: The jukebox musical.

[3:19] Tori Bullard: Now, for the purpose of our deep dive, we need to stick to a single definition of what a jukebox musical is.

[3:25] Tori Bullard: We're sticking to the definition of a musical or movie musical with no original musical compositions, instead, relying on the pre-written materials for one or more composers.

[3:35] Tori Bullard: So while this does rule out shows like Crazy for You and Forty Second Street, it does grant us a little more clarity into where the term originated and how to track it historically.

[3:46] Tori Bullard: The very first production that falls under the modern definition of jukebox musical is The Beggars Opera from 1728.

[3:54] Tori Bullard: This work was the first of what would become known as the Ballad Operas, productions utilizing common folk songs, broadsheet ballads, operatic arias, and church hymns of the day to tell an original story.

[4:07] Tori Bullard: The first use of the actual term jukebox musical appears to have been printed in a review of the 1962 musical Dora Me.

[4:17] Tori Bullard: However, this show was about a man who sold jukeboxes, so the term is far more literal than descriptive.

[4:24] Tori Bullard: The most common form of jukebox musical for many years was the Bio Musical, a show written to tell the story of the composer or composers, utilizing their own songs as theatrical vehicles.

[4:35] Tori Bullard: These shows included Leader of the Pack telling the story of Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry, and Buddy, the Buddy Holly story, telling, funnily enough, the story of Buddy Holly.

[4:44] Tori Bullard: However, for modern audiences, the definitive jukebox musical came in 1999, when Mamma Mia premiered, built entirely around the music of ABBA.

[4:53] Tori Bullard: The jukebox musical proves incredibly popular in Australia today, with four professionally produced shows currently touring the country.

[5:00] Tori Bullard: Elvis, a musical revolution, Moulin Rouge, and Mamma Mia all currently call Melbourne home.

[5:06] Tori Bullard: And Juliet is set to land in Perth this December after finishing its run in Singapore.

[5:10] Gareth Isaac: It's wild.

[5:11] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that that's nuts to me. When I was writing this down, I was like, there are so many jukebox musicals happening like locally and internationally at the moment.

[5:21] Tori Bullard: And I want to say we've all seen Mamma Mia this most recent time around.

[5:26] Gareth Isaac: I actually haven't.

[5:28] Tori Bullard: Our tours have been like ships in the night.

[5:30] Gareth Isaac: Yes, okay. Well, I've seen it twice. I think Eliza's seen it once.

[5:33] Gareth Isaac: Yes, I saw it uh a week and a half ago in Brisbane. Um and that was thrilling because the good old Chelsea Dawson was in the house.

[5:43] Tori Bullard: Woo!

[5:44] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, and then uh very sadly I was hoping to make Chelsea's uh debut as Sophie, but unfortunately uh I got sick, which was really sad.

[5:55] Gareth Isaac: But I did watch her in the ensemble and she was just phenomenal. I kept my eyes kept going to her all the time and yeah, I I actually okay.

[6:04] Gareth Isaac: Mamma Mia is a really polarizing musical for me personally. So I was really interested to go and watch this production because I've only ever seen ProM productions or amateur theatre productions, and when I went and watched the professional one, I was I was definitely ready with my opinions already formed, but a lot of them actually changed because I don't know about you guys.

[6:27] Gareth Isaac: I find Mamma Mia is a really tricky one if it's not uh if the text isn't handled correctly.

[6:33] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[6:33] Gareth Isaac: It's definitely so I saw it twice by accident. This is kind of a come from away incident where I'm into the theater randomly.

[6:43] Tori Bullard: What do you mean by act how do you see Mamma Mia accidentally?

[6:46] Gareth Isaac: Booked tickets for myself and my mum for her birthday at the beginning of the year, and like maybe two weeks after I booked these tickets, we got sent opening night tickets for Mamma Mia, and I was like, ah, and I was literally seeing it like a week apart, and I was like, oh, well, at least the fun show. I was like, at least it's a fun show.

[7:04] Gareth Isaac: But it ended up being so much better than I anticipated because similarly to Eliza, I've only ever seen, I think I've seen one like uh community production of it many, many years ago and the movies, so I was really keen to see what it was like on stage, and it exceeded expectation.

[7:21] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I mean, I I've seen Mamma Mia the movie. I've never seen it live, I've just never had the opportunity. In 2017, 2018, I was in another show at the time and we just kept crossing over.

[7:32] Gareth Isaac: Same problem with Beautiful, another fantastic jukebox that I just never got to see because I was doing other things at the time.

[7:39] Tori Bullard: I love Mamma Mia because at its core, it implies that they either A live in a world where the songs of ABBA do not exist and all of these songs are happening organically, or B, this entire Greek island just happens to have like choreography classes of a night or something.

[7:58] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, voulez vu, aha.

[8:01] Tori Bullard: It's also very funny to me that the end of the show, the end of Mamma Mia, similar to a lot of jukebox musicals, they decide that the crux of the story doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter who Sophie's real dad is.

[8:13] Gareth Isaac: Spoilers for you know 200 1999. Big spoiler alert.

[8:17] Tori Bullard: I I was actually really funny. I was we were sitting in uh the theatre with a couple of uni friends, and uh, you know, the end of that show, I think it's the best bows possibly in musical theatre because it forces you to give them a standing ovation.

[8:32] Gareth Isaac: Come on, like four different songs, and then by the end, they're like, even the first, like when you're you know, the first song comes out and you're like, yeah, like congratulations, everyone.

[8:32] Tori Bullard: And then by the end, everyone is just dancing so hard by the end.

[8:46] Gareth Isaac: You leave feeling so good, and I I just loved that. We were like, Yeah, it forces you to stand, and I kind of love that.

[8:52] Tori Bullard: I have something similar to put in for this. Uh, have either of you managed to see Anne Juliet yet?

[8:58] Gareth Isaac: No.

[8:58] Tori Bullard: I haven't.

[9:00] Gareth Isaac: Anne Juliet has a a similar moment at the end of the show where somehow you all find yourselves on your feet, and then it's like, hey, while you're up here, keep standing while we do our bows.

[9:09] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[9:10] Gareth Isaac: I think that's brilliant. I think that it's it's certainly one way to get a standing ovation every night.

[9:14] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[9:15] Tori Bullard: But we won't we won't talk uh we'll talk about Anne Juliet, but we won't talk too much because obviously it is a much newer show.

[9:21] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, it's so fresh.

[9:23] Tori Bullard: I don't want I don't want to spoil anything for anyone on that show. You you gotta get in and see it for yourselves.

[9:27] Gareth Isaac: It sounds phenomenal. Obviously, I've literally seen almost nothing. I think all I have seen, um, you know, on the good old fashioned TikTok is the opening, not the opening, like the pre-show, all of the cast being on stage at the beginning of the show, which I think is super fun, and I love that vibe for a show.

[9:46] Tori Bullard: It just makes it feel very welcoming, and also I often see bows, specifically of the Australian cast, which I which I love.

[9:53] Tori Bullard: But I think something important to talk about with jukeboxes. Um, and this is something that one of our fabulous listeners brought to my attention a while ago, um, Jake, which is to chat about how jukebox musicals are a great like gateway drug into music theatre because with jukebox musicals, you're going in generally, there are far I think I think it's one of the reasons why we get so many of them in Australia because audiences know the music, and therefore it's much easier to go when you already know the music like Mamma Mia.

[10:25] Tori Bullard: Mamma Mia is always going to sell well because everyone knows. If you don't like ABBA, well, you're not gonna go. But I would say like eighty percent of people enjoy having a bit of a boogie to ABBA.

[10:36] Gareth Isaac: And it then leads really well onto getting people into music theatre in general.

[10:44] Tori Bullard: I completely agree. Jukeboxes are a great way to dive in when you're not familiar with musical theatre in general.

[10:51] Gareth Isaac: I mean, let's look at the most accessible form of jukebox musical, the movie musical. How many people have seen like Singin' in the Rain or a Disney animated film? Like those are by definition musical theatre.

[11:06] Tori Bullard: Singing in the Rain specifically is a jukebox musical. All the music is written by Arthur Freed, and beautiful compositions. I used to sing all that in my ragtime orchestra in my twenties.

[11:15] Gareth Isaac: But it was just a perfect way to get someone into understanding, hey, this is the world we're in. People are gonna start singing at you, and you're gonna have to deal with that for a little bit if you want the full emotional ride.

[11:27] Tori Bullard: Which I guess is kind of like when you look at things like The Lion King, in a sense, is a jukebox musical loosely, which is such a great way. Like I know that for me, I think Lion King was the first musical I ever saw, and obviously we went to see it because we loved the movie, and this was m many, many, many years ago now.

[11:48] Gareth Isaac: Exactly. I'll I'll say it's only quote unquote technically a jukebox musical because it has Tim Rice and Elton John behind the wheel.

[11:56] Tori Bullard: But all those songs were written specifically for the musical, so it I I I guess that's the same as saying, yeah, that there's there's balance to be had here.

[12:04] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, it's a really tricky, uh, kind of dynamic, you know, and I think as well, it just gives people music in a different way.

[12:11] Gareth Isaac: I mean, you think this is really bad, but all I'm thinking is trolls, and how much like I was gonna bring up trolls, right? Right, little kids go crazy for that music, but it's like music that's not like it wasn't as popular right now in this current moment, but it really brings it back in. Like things like Pitch Perfect, that's like brought a bunch of new music back to the common ground, and it was just it's really fun when you see those ones because I don't know, movie musicals that are jukebox musicals, I feel like sit differently for me than musicals that sit in the jukebox category because especially like there can be some flops and some wins, but I love an animated jukebox musical movie. I think that is where it it's at its peak.

[12:59] Tori Bullard: Yes, it I think that works better than a live-action movie jukebox musical. Like, let's look at Amazon's Cinderella from 2021. Commercial critical failure. It was awful, terrible, terrible. I will say that on with my chest till the day I die. Then you look at stuff like Sing and Sing Too. Those are just random cartoon animals going on basically Australia's Got Talent and belting out stuff. Like Seth McFarlane, the Family Guy dude is a tiny mouse who just belts out My Way by Frank Sinatra. That's funny because it is in an unrealistic world. I think the minute you slap someone with flesh and blood in there and expect us to appreciate a premise of them going through an emotional journey, but she's singing part of the Rhythm Nation, like we're not interested.

[13:53] Gareth Isaac: But even I think with some musicals, like with some jukebox musicals on stage, that still happens. I love Moulin Rouge very much. Thoroughly enjoy it. But there are a couple of songs in Moulin Rouge that for me completely took me out of it because I was like. Some of them worked really well because there was this um like Lorde's song. Oh, what is it? Royals. Like when um when he starts singing it, I think it's Toulouse starts singing it. It is, yeah. And it's funny and it works really well. But there are a couple of other moments in the show for me where there were songs that would come out and I was like, I know this is a serious moment, but I'm really struggling to take it seriously right now, purely based off of the song.

[14:39] Tori Bullard: Wait, Gareth, are you telling me that possibly having Satine's I Am song be Firework by Katy Perry was possibly a bad choice?

[14:48] Gareth Isaac: Maybe a little bit. It's not terrible. And look, I will say everyone I've seen. Yeah, and everyone I've seen do it, because I've seen Alinter and the amazing understudy, Patrice, were both amazing and so compelling in the song, and I felt so moved by them, not the song. The song I was like, I get the choice. I do, but also I kind of got quite. There was a c just a couple of moments in Moulin Rouge where I was like, you're really in it and you're really in the world, and then a certain song comes on, you're like, just pulled me right out.

[15:26] Tori Bullard: Oh no. I think it's as well, because when you have like a jukebox musical, you have to like take the songs verbatim for what they are, and usually they don't change the words, and I think sometimes that can be hard and take you out of it because the words don't necessarily relate fully to the plot. Like it does loosely sometimes, or maybe there's like part of the song that really relates to the character and what they're going through, but then the other half of the song doesn't quite match it. And it can be really um jarring. And I think actually, you know what? I think one musical that isn't a jukebox musical, but it does have jukebox in it, is actually Muriel's Wedding. I think they do a good job of like, you know, the funniness of like having it's the Mamma Mia team, and then they're singing, they're having ABBA songs within it, but um it's in the story and the plot, and then it drives it. It's part of it, which is really good.

[16:20] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, but it's hard because that one also has a lot of original music, mostly original music. So but it integrates it really seamlessly into the story, whereas I find like Moulin Rouge and even Mamma Mia, you know, they break out into these songs that you already know so well that I think often they do it quite seamlessly and it works really well, but sometimes you're just there like we're on a Greek island and everybody's singing Dancing Queen.

[16:52] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I think the most egregious example of that is uh the use of Chiquitita in Mamma Mia. Like they're singing at the bathroom door, Chiquitita, tell me what's wrong. You have never called her that in your life.

[17:07] Gareth Isaac: What do you mean?

[17:07] Tori Bullard: No, I love that. I think it works so well. I love it because it just feels like in that moment for me, what that moment feels like is they've taken a song that they used to sing as Donna and the Dynamos, and they're like, this was like her little pick-me-up, so we'll just we'll sing that, and maybe that'll get her in the mood.

[17:26] Gareth Isaac: I don't take it as them calling her Chiquitita.

[17:29] Tori Bullard: That is implied context rather than actually giving us backstory though.

[17:34] Gareth Isaac: Like, yeah, you're expected to make a leap of logic there.

[17:36] Tori Bullard: That just could be my brain doing that, though.

[17:39] Gareth Isaac: I love it. That was one of my favourite numbers in the show.

[17:43] Tori Bullard: But also, can we just settle this? Chiquitita or Tita?

[17:46] Gareth Isaac: That's what Gareth said.

[17:48] Tori Bullard: Okay, well, I'm wrong on two counts then.

[17:50] Gareth Isaac: I think it's Chiquitita.

[17:52] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[17:54] Gareth Isaac: In my defense, in my defense, I am a moron.

[18:01] Tori Bullard: You know, there's no defense there when it comes to ABBA, you know.

[18:04] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, but I I need to do better.

[18:06] Tori Bullard: I need to do the training.

[18:08] Gareth Isaac: I couldn't help myself. But actually, I would say one of my favorite musicals is actually a biomusical, which I don't know. Biomusicals are really interesting because they tell the story of someone's life and have music to it, and I find that's impactful and powerful because it's seamlessly integrated and it feels like they're telling their life story.

[18:31] Tori Bullard: So for me, it's like definitely Carol King musical is like Yeah, yeah. Beautiful is my favorite jukebox musical.

[18:40] Gareth Isaac: Beautiful is the jukebox musical that every other jukebox musical should strive to be. It is the pinnacle for me. It is no matter what production you see of it, it's just so good. You know?

[18:51] Tori Bullard: Like the story, it's so well written and so well crafted.

[18:55] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, absolutely. And that does bring the question then, what makes Beautiful so good when compared to other jukebox musicals, like for example, uh Once Upon a One More Time, which just closed on Broadway, which was the Britney Spears jukebox musical.

[19:12] Tori Bullard: So there was a Britney Spears jukebox.

[19:15] Gareth Isaac: It was. It was, what was it? It was dis it was princesses trying to rescue themselves.

[19:21] Tori Bullard: Yeah, it was a large group of.

[19:23] Gareth Isaac: I read the premise this morning when I was going through the reviews for it. It's a large number of princesses doing like a fairy tale book club of their own stories.

[19:33] Tori Bullard: And then the fairy godmother introduces them to feminist literature.

[19:37] Gareth Isaac: Oh, I love it.

[19:37] Tori Bullard: And it's all to Britney Spears.

[19:40] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, and it's all to Britney Spears. Like having Prince Charming uh sing to Snow White and Cinderella both. Oops, I did it again.

[19:47] Tori Bullard: I think that's very funny.

[19:48] Gareth Isaac: Yeah.

[19:49] Tori Bullard: I like that. But apparently, dramaturgically, the book just wasn't where it needed to be for a Broadway show.

[19:55] Gareth Isaac: And I I think that's the key here.

[19:57] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I think I think it needs to have a really good through line, and it needs to be a really good, interesting story. Like I think Carol King, it has so many moments in it. Because obviously this is based off someone's life. And someone that has won so many awards and has so much accolade behind them. And so like and like their story is still continuing as well, which I think is so important.

[20:24] Gareth Isaac: But I find that with Beautiful, you're set in the time that everything is taking place. And it's a really compelling story about Carol King and how she got to where she is and all like the trials and tribulations that she had along the way.

[20:38] Tori Bullard: Um and it's very honest as well, which I think is really it doesn't sugarcoat anything, I don't think. Obviously, we don't we've not lived her life, therefore you can never know 100%. But it feels really honest and raw.

[20:51] Gareth Isaac: And all of I think also it's really important, and I'm not saying that any of the jukebox musicals uh the artists are not good because I think all of them are really good, especially if you know when you look at Britney Spears, you know, she's a pop classic. As a musical, I'm personally unsure, but I think Carol King's music is you go you can go on such a journey with it.

[21:15] Tori Bullard: I agree. I actually think a lot of it comes down to how the original music was written. Because if the original music, uh the lyrics in the original music, and that's more what I'm referring to, don't uh tell the story, then you just disconnect from it.

[21:32] Gareth Isaac: And Carol King wrote a lot about her life and and emotions and what she was feeling, and there was a couple of really fun uptune songs, but I really like when they use songs. So, for instance, there's like a really popular song, but it doesn't quite fit the narrative. But then they use a performative technique, such as like, oh, this was when this group sung that song, and then they just do it like it's in original intention, and it's it's things like singing in the rain when they they do that. It's like the performance, and I find that's where it becomes its most successful when it knows what songs it needs to highlight for the story and which songs are just performative, and I don't know, fitting in that kind of performative narrative in the shows generally works best, like Chiquitita, like hey, this is an old song we used to sing, that kind of vibe, and the Dynamos, you know, when they come out and they're doing the songs that they used to perform in their tribute act, that serves those songs really well because that's what they're designed to do. They're not designed to be these massive ballad numbers that we're gonna change and we're gonna make them all story-based, you know.

[22:43] Tori Bullard: And I agree. Uh, Beautiful you were mentioning the lyrics of King's songs relating to each moment in her life. This is one of my favourite jukebox musicals, does this really well. Leader of the Pack. I have such a soft spot for this show. I mentioned it earlier in our opening spiel. It is the story of Ellie Greenwich, who, if you don't know the name, you would know her music. You would know uh Be My Baby. You'd know Doo-Wop, Dididi Dum Didit Do. Like she was half of uh Barry and Greenwich who produced all of these incredible songs in the 60s and 70s and onwards and onwards. Her musical uses all of the songs that she wrote and puts it in the context of cool, we are writing these and recording these as we are living out our lives.

[23:34] Gareth Isaac: And there is a beautiful melancholic, like uh juxtaposition of watching her break down to the tune of I Can Hear Music by the Beach Boys. Like the group is happily singing this song as the man she loves is walking out of her life again. And yeah, I cannot state enough how much I love dramatic juxtaposition, especially in the case of a bio musical, when someone is writing all these beautiful, happy, poppy, like beautiful. I say beautiful all the time. That's the wrong show. This is the Leader of the Pack.

[24:13] Tori Bullard: Hey. All of this music that was designed to make people feel good while they were essentially having the worst time of their life.

[24:21] Gareth Isaac: That I think is powerful and speaks more truth to the person than, say, sugarcoating.

[24:29] Gareth Isaac: This this is my issue with biomusicals. More often than not, they are written at the time when their subject is still alive. So the story isn't over yet. So I don't think we can find out any like actual dramatic revelations. I sounds gossipy of me to say. But I don't think the story can be truly told while its subject is sitting out in the audience watching it. Or in Ellie Greenwich's case, being on stage for the premiere.

[24:56] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[24:56] Gareth Isaac: I think it really depends on the subject and who it's about. And to what extent they're willing to air what might be their dirty laundry. Like I think Beautiful, again, like we were saying before, we can never know 100%, but I feel like there are moments where uh she shines herself in like a less than flattering light, um, but does it in such a wonderful way of just the honesty of her life and what you were saying before about um these really beautiful songs coming at really all like hard times, like you know, natural woman in Beautiful comes, I believe, as they're getting a divorce or they're separating.

[25:39] Gareth Isaac: And it's such a beautiful, beautiful song uh coming at such a heartbreaking time, and that's what I think. And for me, I think once upon a one more time, whilst I'm sure the musically it was really fun, and the story I think is a fun idea, but I think you've also got a lot of other shows doing similar things. I cannot remember for the life of me what the show is, but I know uh just prior to the second lot of COVID lockdowns in New York there was another fairy tale-esque musical happening. Um I cannot remember the name of.

[26:15] Gareth Isaac: And I think you've gotta pick and choose your what jukebox musicals you're doing at particular times, um, because there are so many happening right now that just adding another one i it's just another one. I just realized I forgot to mention Tina is also playing in Sydney.

[26:34] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, Tina Turner the musical.

[26:36] Gareth Isaac: So we've got five. Five musicals, it's crazy. I forgot about Tina. I'm so sorry, guys. Sorry to the Tina cast, we love you.

[26:44] Tori Bullard: We do, we love you guys. I haven't seen it yet, but it's got incredible reviews. So many wonderful things about it.

[26:50] Gareth Isaac: Because when it was originally announced, I was excited. But I was also like an interesting choice, but sure, like great.

[26:55] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I saw their performance at the NRL grand final last night. It was incredible.

[26:59] Gareth Isaac: Oh, that's awesome.

[27:00] Tori Bullard: I didn't get to see the final last night, but that's probably just because I'm not a football person.

[27:05] Gareth Isaac: I don't watch sport.

[27:07] Tori Bullard: Yeah, like women's soccer. I did watch women's soccer this year because.

[27:12] Tori Bullard: In my defense, the sport was on in the green room at the theatre.

[27:16] Gareth Isaac: Ah, sportball.

[27:17] Tori Bullard: Sports.

[27:19] Gareth Isaac: Uh yeah. I mean, look, the only thing I was gonna say on uh on finishing off that sort of subject was that I feel like as well the performers you have in the roles of any jukebox musical and how they treat the text and how they build relationships off the text is what is utmostly important. I find that um just because I've seen a few versions as an example, Mamma Mia, I know we've talked a lot about that, but Mamma Mia, I've seen it where they don't connect as a cast and and it seems really disjointed, and then the songs just don't seem to flow, but then obviously seeing the recent uh production, they had beautiful moments where they really made them their own and they used the language in new ways.

[28:07] Gareth Isaac: They weren't trying to be like the movie, they were doing their own performance of the roles. And I find that's more interesting, and when they're really invested in the text and making their own interpretations of that, that's where it becomes powerful and it becomes a really good musical.

[28:24] Gareth Isaac: So realistically, probably any most jukebox musicals could be made even better by who you cast and how they and who you who's the director and what they bring to the table that makes it different and think about it in a different way than what's been done before.

[28:41] Tori Bullard: I agree.

[28:42] Tori Bullard: Alright, friends. We find ourselves at the midpoint of the record, and as per tradition for stage door, I've brought a game.

[28:56] Gareth Isaac: No.

[28:56] Tori Bullard: I am not.

[28:57] Gareth Isaac: Oh, you should be.

[28:59] Tori Bullard: This one, friends, is a buzz-in game. So I am going to say the name of a jukebox musical. And one of you will have to buzz in and tell me what composer or band or person has produced the music for this musical.

[29:19] Gareth Isaac: I'm actually terrible at this stuff.

[29:20] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna fail so much.

[29:22] Gareth Isaac: Me too.

[29:22] Tori Bullard: Oh no, no, no. So like I've given you some easy ones. I've thrown some very basic ones in there. I've given some that are a little bit tougher.

[29:30] Tori Bullard: But we'll be playing. I'll give you five. And the first one to get majority wins, and I have some like tiebreakers here.

[29:39] Tori Bullard: Uh, your buzz is your name. I'll give you a three, two, one.

[29:43] Gareth Isaac: Okay.

[29:44] Tori Bullard: Oh my god, this is so fun.

[29:46] Tori Bullard: Okay. Friends, your first musical, first jukebox musical.

[29:51] Tori Bullard: American Idiot.

[29:53] Gareth Isaac: Three, two, one.

[29:56] Tori Bullard: Tori.

[29:57] Tori Bullard: I I don't know.

[30:01] Tori Bullard: Oh Green Day?

[30:03] Gareth Isaac: Yes, it's Green Day.

[30:04] Tori Bullard: Okay. My brain was like, what is it? What is it? Screen Jake. I was like, I don't remember what you've asked for. I'm just gonna say Green Day and hope that that was what you actually asked for.

[30:15] Gareth Isaac: Yes, we're looking for the person who or persons who supplied the music.

[30:19] Tori Bullard: Okay. Alright.

[30:20] Tori Bullard: That's one point to Tori. Our next one.

[30:24] Tori Bullard: Okay. Bat out of hell.

[30:26] Gareth Isaac: Three, two, one.

[30:29] Tori Bullard: Tori!

[30:30] Tori Bullard: I don't know what it is.

[30:32] Tori Bullard: Meatloaf.

[30:33] Gareth Isaac: Yes, it is Meatloaf.

[30:34] Tori Bullard: Congratulations.

[30:35] Tori Bullard: Because my dad's like a big Meatloaf person.

[30:37] Gareth Isaac: Okay.

[30:38] Tori Bullard: I was like, I've never heard of it. I mean, I've heard of it, but.

[30:41] Tori Bullard: That's two nothing Tori. Alright.

[30:42] Tori Bullard: We're moving on to a slightly tougher one now.

[30:45] Tori Bullard: Viva Forever.

[30:47] Gareth Isaac: Three, two, one.

[30:49] Gareth Isaac: I have literally no clue.

[30:51] Gareth Isaac: I've never heard of that musical in my whole life.

[30:54] Tori Bullard: Tori.

[30:55] Tori Bullard: Spice Girls?

[30:56] Gareth Isaac: Correct!

[30:58] Tori Bullard: No, there's a Spice Girls jukebox musical?

[31:01] Gareth Isaac: Oh I could think of was Viva Forever.

[31:04] Tori Bullard: There is a Spice Girls jukebox musical written by Dawn French.

[31:10] Gareth Isaac: That would be brilliant.

[31:12] Tori Bullard: Is it any good? Has anyone seen it?

[31:14] Gareth Isaac: I couldn't tell you.

[31:15] Tori Bullard: Oh, okay. Now we need to investigate that.

[31:17] Gareth Isaac: Okay.

[31:18] Tori Bullard: Okay. Well, I don't feel so bad about getting that one wrong because I didn't know it, you know.

[31:21] Gareth Isaac: Sorry, not Dawn French, Jennifer Saunders. I always get them confused.

[31:24] Tori Bullard: Oh.

[31:25] Gareth Isaac: Oh, this is very different.

[31:27] Tori Bullard: I mean, it doesn't change the fact that you didn't get it.

[31:28] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, it doesn't. It really doesn't.

[31:32] Tori Bullard: I wasn't gonna get it anyway. It's fine, it's fine.

[31:34] Tori Bullard: I mean, we'll do the remaining two questions.

[31:37] Tori Bullard: Please, just for me.

[31:39] Tori Bullard: Let's just see if I can get five for five.

[31:41] Gareth Isaac: I mean, we'll see what we can do.

[31:42] Tori Bullard: Okay. Our next musical Escape to Margaritaville.

[31:49] Gareth Isaac: Three, two, one.

[31:52] Tori Bullard: Ooh! Okay, I know the musical, but I can't remember who it's based off because I I've only loosely heard about it, so I'm not sure what I'm saying.

[32:01] Tori Bullard: So is that a buzz? Is that a buzz out from both of you?

[32:04] Gareth Isaac: Yeah.

[32:05] Tori Bullard: I know of the show I've never listened to it.

[32:07] Gareth Isaac: I don't know who.

[32:09] Gareth Isaac: It's Jimmy Buffett.

[32:11] Tori Bullard: Oh, I don't know who Jimmy Buffett is.

[32:13] Gareth Isaac: Oh my god, you two are so young.

[32:15] Tori Bullard: I know.

[32:16] Gareth Isaac: This is what I mean. I'm like.

[32:17] Tori Bullard: I mean, I know the name.

[32:18] Gareth Isaac: It's five o'clock somewhere.

[32:20] Tori Bullard: Margaritaville.

[32:22] Gareth Isaac: Come on.

[32:23] Tori Bullard: Oh no.

[32:25] Gareth Isaac: It's not ringing any bells.

[32:26] Tori Bullard: He also passed away recently.

[32:28] Gareth Isaac: So you know, rest in peace, you beautiful island boy.

[32:30] Tori Bullard: Alright, our last one. Let's keep it super easy.

[32:35] Tori Bullard: The boy from Oz.

[32:37] Gareth Isaac: Three, two, one.

[32:40] Tori Bullard: I can't remember.

[32:42] Gareth Isaac: Oh my Tori, okay.

[32:47] Gareth Isaac: No.

[32:47] Tori Bullard: I want to say like.

[32:48] Gareth Isaac: Oh, I have Bella Eliza.

[32:50] Gareth Isaac: I know who it is. Can I say it?

[32:52] Gareth Isaac: It's it's Peter Allen.

[32:53] Tori Bullard: Peter Allen.

[32:53] Gareth Isaac: Yes, Eliza got it.

[32:54] Tori Bullard: Eliza got it.

[32:56] Gareth Isaac: As soon as you said it, I was like, I see.

[32:58] Tori Bullard: I was like, wait a second. This is a bio one.

[33:01] Tori Bullard: This is a biomusical.

[33:02] Gareth Isaac: It's Peter Allen.

[33:04] Tori Bullard: How do you not know the boy from Oz? Come on.

[33:06] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, sorry.

[33:07] Tori Bullard: That was mind blank, guys.

[33:11] Tori Bullard: Look, I have never listened. It is six o'clock, you know.

[33:14] Tori Bullard: I have no excuse, really.

[33:16] Tori Bullard: I have zero excuse. I'm just tired, you know.

[33:18] Gareth Isaac: Fair enough.

[33:19] Tori Bullard: Well the wheels are.

[33:21] Gareth Isaac: Look, if it was better, maybe I knew would know it.

[33:24] Tori Bullard: Don't you?

[33:24] Gareth Isaac: Oh.

[33:25] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna You don't know the boy from Oz.

[33:27] Gareth Isaac: I mean, I'm not sure.

[33:27] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna swear on this podcast.

[33:29] Tori Bullard: How fucking dare you?

[33:31] Gareth Isaac: Oh my god.

[33:32] Tori Bullard: I know of it. The Boy From Oz is a fantastic musical. It tells a beautiful story. It features Liza Minelli perfectly and all of Peter Allen's work. Tenderfield Saddler has never been done so dramatically beautifully.

[33:45] Gareth Isaac: Shut up.

[33:47] Tori Bullard: No!

[33:49] Gareth Isaac: I mean, I was just shooting shit, but I'm tempted to take a point away from you.

[33:55] Tori Bullard: I mean, I still win.

[33:56] Gareth Isaac: Let's do a tiebreaker.

[33:59] Tori Bullard: I would still be on two and you would still be on one.

[34:02] Gareth Isaac: That one was worth two, right?

[34:05] Tori Bullard: Alright, that brings us to the end of the game. Tori has taken it, although has tainted their victory by talking shit.

[34:14] Tori Bullard: Sorry, I'm sure it is wonderful. I literally have never seen it, nor have I ever listened to it.

[34:19] Gareth Isaac: So I just wanted to.

[34:20] Tori Bullard: Do yourself a favor. It's really good.

[34:24] Tori Bullard: I was just thinking while we were doing that game. Isn't um correct me if I'm wrong, because I actually have not, I didn't get to see this when it came here.

[34:33] Tori Bullard: Is Jagged Little Pill a jukebox musical?

[34:35] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, yes, it is.

[34:36] Tori Bullard: It's entirely based on the Alanis Morissette album of the same name.

[34:41] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, right.

[34:42] Tori Bullard: Yeah, no, I thought that. And that one's really good from what I've heard, and I feel like the integration's really awesome.

[34:48] Gareth Isaac: So it's cool.

[34:49] Tori Bullard: I like that that one's more modern and kind of a darker twist, because sometimes they're a bit light.

[34:54] Gareth Isaac: It's interesting.

[34:56] Tori Bullard: Um interesting.

[34:58] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, I like what they did with it, and I like the story it told.

[35:03] Gareth Isaac: There was for me personally, there was too many stories happening at once for it to feel very streamlined.

[35:10] Gareth Isaac: It felt very uh chip chop all over the place. There were a lot of issues that are dealt with within the show that some of which I felt were dealt with really well, some of which not as seamlessly.

[35:22] Gareth Isaac: Um I think it's a great use of the music in the show.

[35:27] Gareth Isaac: It's used really well. It's used in kind of uh that more traditional what I would say music theater, like these are the things that are happening in my head, so they're gonna come out of my mouth, you know.

[35:38] Tori Bullard: I I I would agree.

[35:39] Gareth Isaac: Uh it is a bit of an issue soup show. Like the issues are present, they are being addressed, but it's a bit soupy, it's a little thin on the surface, you know?

[35:49] Gareth Isaac: Like they weren't able to dive in and resolve everything within the two, two and a half hours we had with this with this show. The music, fantastic, and I say that because I love Alanis Morissette.

[36:00] Gareth Isaac: I think what they did with Ironic, very funny, by pointing out that nothing in there is actual dramatic irony, like they would stop every line and say, Hey, that that's not it.

[36:10] Gareth Isaac: That is also not it. You are you are not describing irony, please stop.

[36:14] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[36:14] Gareth Isaac: That was very funny to me.

[36:16] Gareth Isaac: And their version of you live you learn, great, uh, head over feet, phenomenal. But this does bring back the issue that we brought up earlier: that a lot of jukebox musicals will not succeed, considering the music is great, but the interpolation of the text and the book just isn't there.

[36:36] Gareth Isaac: I feel like a story was being told with Jagged Little Pill that potentially could have been told just as a play, and that would have given so much more space for the issues to have been actually resolved.

[36:50] Tori Bullard: Oh, so it's almost like they're competing, like the music was competing with the story, and it was like hard to like there wasn't enough time almost for both.

[37:00] Gareth Isaac: Yes. And I think that there are certainly shows where that's kind of the point. So like when you look at things like Girl from the North Country, which it was described to us in an interview that we did for Girl from the North Country as honey and vinegar. Like the script was honey and the music was vinegar. They were not meant to work hand in hand. They were kind of juxtaposing forces. But I feel like if that's not your intention, then they need to be more seamlessly cohesive and need to kind of lend to each other to tell the story, which I think is one of the reasons why Mamma Mia works so well, because it's this mix of Donna and the Dynamo seeing a song from their set from back when they used to perform.

And you know, there are kind of reasons for everything, even though some of them are, um, slipping through my fingers. It's this beautiful moment, um, between mother and daughter. Uh, there are moments that work so, so well. Um, and then I feel like you have other times when things just you like understand what they're trying to do, but unfortunately the song and the text have not really migrated together particularly.

[38:11] Tori Bullard: Do you mean, do you mean meshed?

[38:13] Gareth Isaac: Well, sure. I don't know what to do. Migrated implies that they're traveling for the winter.

[38:19] Tori Bullard: Yeah, well, look. I don't know what exactly I was trying to say, but I was trying to say is they just haven't, like, yeah, meshed the stories of both are kind of not quite meeting.

[38:31] Gareth Isaac: Yeah. Well, it's that old Sondheim quote where content dictates form. And I think when you are approaching one specific artist's music or one specific person's writing and trying to base a show around them, that content must dictate the form around it. So for instance, Mamma Mia, the book and the dialogue is written in a way that complements the music that is to follow. It allows you to build up to this journey and reach a point where someone is about to sing something and be a different person at the end of the song than they were at the beginning. And sometimes that doesn't happen in a jukebox because when you're given a hammer, everything looks like a nail, am I right?

[39:18] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[39:19] Gareth Isaac: Yeah. And I will give credit to Jagged Little Pill. That is something that I think they did really well when we finally got up to You Ought to Know. Like they built that journey really.

[39:28] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[39:29] Gareth Isaac: That song slaps.

[39:33] Tori Bullard: I've only heard the recording, obviously, I haven't seen the show, but it really slaps. It's one of the songs that like gets me going. I'm like, yes, yes, I can listen to that for days.

[39:43] Gareth Isaac: Yes, the anthem of every dumped person screaming in their car for the last 30 years. Incredible work.

[39:50] Tori Bullard: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I guess like kind of to wrap it up, I feel like we've touched on so many incredible jukebox musicals. We've also kind of talked about, I mean, we're talking about what makes the musical, not the performances of the musical, just putting that out there.

[40:08] Gareth Isaac: Yes.

[40:08] Tori Bullard: Um, you know, uh objectively you can go and see a show and the performances are just amazing within that. But talking about the book and the lyrics, they're a separate thing. Um, but on that note, what is everyone's favorite jukebox musical? I feel like we've all already kind of answered this a little bit. Mine's Beautiful by Carol King.

[40:31] Gareth Isaac: I think that is the best jukebox musical.

[40:34] Tori Bullard: It is not my favourite.

[40:35] Gareth Isaac: Ooh, okay.

[40:36] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[40:37] Gareth Isaac: Mine is a controversial pick. It is the 2006 movie musical Across the Universe, directed by Julie Tamore.

[40:46] Tori Bullard: Oh, I knew you were gonna say that.

[40:47] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, it is. I've never seen this.

[40:49] Tori Bullard: It's a Beatles movie musical. Evan Rachel Wood features in it. Her rendition of Blackbird breaks my heart every time I hear it because she's singing it to her brother, uh, who'd just come back from Vietnam and is suffering PTSD, and they're just sitting on this beach watching the tide roll, and she's just singing to him to help him feel better. It is possibly one of the most visually stunning films I've ever seen. The way the lives of the six main characters all interweave through the Beatles' music. Like, oh, it is so stunning and moving. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[41:27] Tori Bullard: What I meant to say, by the way, was actually because I realize we've already talked about our favourite musicals. What I meant to say was, what is your favourite song from a jukebox musical?

[41:39] Gareth Isaac: Ah.

[41:41] Tori Bullard: That's what I meant to say.

[41:43] Gareth Isaac: Well, then I think that one's really hard. I mean, I kind of answered already. Blackbird from Across the Universe.

[41:50] Tori Bullard: Oh, within Beautiful.

[41:53] Gareth Isaac: I need to quickly look at the tracks because my brain is just literally going through every song. There's a song actually in Mamma Mia that really every time, I don't know, it just gets me going, and I just like love it, but it's really random. It's the one that starts act two. What's it called again? Forgot.

[42:10] Tori Bullard: Um Mamma Mia.

[42:14] Gareth Isaac: Uh yeah, wait, I'm in the Oh, um the like nightmare song.

[42:18] Tori Bullard: Yes, the nightmare song.

[42:19] Gareth Isaac: I love it. I don't know why. I just really love it.

[42:23] Tori Bullard: Well, you know, I'm not gonna yuck your yums.

[42:25] Gareth Isaac: I know, it's weird.

[42:26] Tori Bullard: It's a weird one to have as like one of your favorites. I mean, I do love Volvo, you know, like we're out there having a good time.

[42:33] Gareth Isaac: I like that, uh, the minute we bring up favorite songs, the two of you are like, what's my favorite song called?

[42:38] Tori Bullard: Well, this is a thing, okay. I don't know if this is a thing for people, but like I don't remember the name of the song. I'm just not that kind of person. I remember the lyrics and how it sounds, so it's in my head, but I don't usually know the specific song title of the song. It's always been something that I've been really bad at. So whenever we do these lyric challenges, I'm like, oh okay, alright, I've gotta remember what they are. I just remember like they play in my head, but they don't title in my head.

[43:09] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, I love so many songs in Beautiful. I think one of my favorites though, and it's probably, uh, kind of similar to the nightmare song, it's a bit of a random choice. But 1650 Broadway Melody. Um, Medley, sorry. Um, it's where you know you're introduced to the, um, recording studio where they've gone to do like, uh, music for advertising kind of idea where Carol King's actually writing for other people rather than for her to be singing songs. Um, and I feel like it really sets you in the time, and you get to hear all these like really iconic like jingles and songs that you didn't really know were like part of that world, and I really love that. I find that it's such a great way of showcasing everyone in the cast as well.

[43:56] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that is a really good number, actually. I do love that one. I also love the finale one. Okay, this is what I mean. I can't remember the name of it. Um, I got to get up every morning. What's it? Come on, tell me to my head.

[44:10] Gareth Isaac: Yes, that one.

[44:12] Tori Bullard: Oh wait. No, that's not it, is it?

[44:16] Gareth Isaac: No, it's not.

[44:17] Tori Bullard: Um, Beautiful.

[44:20] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, Beautiful.

[44:20] Tori Bullard: There you go. See, um, oh, it's just like it's just you're gonna find it.

[44:28] Gareth Isaac: Piste resistante. I gotta say, I found it's beautiful to sit over here and watch you two like exist in a codependent friendship. It's really lovely. And I must say, I must say it's been so wonderful doing another deep dive with both of you at the same time. And it's our last one of the year.

[44:44] Tori Bullard: I know, right? That's crazy.

[44:46] Gareth Isaac: It's been a crazy year.

[44:48] Tori Bullard: It's been a crazy year.

[44:52] Gareth Isaac: Oh my lord. And so much has happened and like it's been really cool as well. Like seeing, you know, you've been a mum, uh, Mamma Mia, no, you've not been a Mamma Mia.

[45:02] Tori Bullard: I most definitely have not.

[45:04] Gareth Isaac: You know? Um, get those dancing legs out, Gary.

[45:08] Tori Bullard: You'll be able to see my dancing legs in Greece.

[45:11] Gareth Isaac: Yes!

[45:12] Tori Bullard: So excited. Which we did do a deep dive talking about Greece, which is really funny. I find it, um, hilarious whenever we do a show, but then we've like talked about it in the past and we have like opinions. And those change. Honestly, the opinions that you might have today about any of the jukebox musicals we talked about change when you see a production or you're in a production or, um, you see a performance that really moves you. Things can change and they ebb and flow, and so it's always really fun to talk to you about this because you also have very different opinions, which I rate highly. I think they're really fun.

[45:49] Tori Bullard: Fun is a good word to describe it. I think jukebox musicals, the success of them are so dependent on the content and the music, but also what makes or breaks a jukebox musical, the people that actually perform in it.

[46:03] Gareth Isaac: I agree.

[46:04] Tori Bullard: And what make it entertaining. Every jukebox I've ever seen has had an incredible cast. I will just say that immediately. Like they're so fucking good. And how good is the Australian cast? I mean, we have all of the incredible musicals on right now. So if you're listening and you really wanna go and see a jukebox musical now, you've got five of them to choose from. So go and see them because take your pick. And those the performers in each and every single one of them give it their all, and they're all incredible, and couldn't speak highly enough about them. So they are what make the show.

[46:39] Gareth Isaac: Exactly.

[46:40] Tori Bullard: So you gotta go and watch. I feel like no matter your opinions about a show, hence my opinions about Mamma Mia have changed completely from show to show when I've watched it. You just gotta go in open-minded and, uh, learn something new and take on whatever performance is given to you. And remember, a jukebox musical is always gonna be fun.

[47:00] Gareth Isaac: Yes.

[47:00] Tori Bullard: And it's music that you know, so you know you're gonna know what's happening as well. Even if you don't necessarily understand the plot of the story, you gotta know the music, and that's I think always so fun when you can go into a show and you already know what the music is. Similar to the like, uh, Rocky Horror is not a jukebox musical, but you go in, you know the music from Rocky Horror. You know like at least 60% of the music, and that's part of the fun of it. So go see, there are so many phenomenal, phenomenal jukebox musicals happening around Australia right now and are coming to Australia again shortly with Anne Juliet. Please make sure that you go and you book tickets, and of course, make sure you book tickets to see Greece when it comes at the beginning of next year, end of this year, end of this year.

[47:45] Gareth Isaac: Yes, tickets are already on sale for our Melbourne and Sydney seasons.

[47:49] Tori Bullard: Why we are gonna Tori and I are gonna be in the audience absolutely living it up for everything. Maybe I'm gonna have to come to Melbourne and we can go and see it in Melbourne together.

[48:03] Gareth Isaac: This is a great idea.

[48:06] Tori Bullard: Well, you guys, thank you so much for being here, and thank you so much, Gareth, for joining us for our final deep dive of the year. It is always an absolute, absolute pleasure to have you on chatting shit with us.

[48:06] Gareth Isaac: Thank you so much for having me. It's always a thrill.

[48:22] Tori Bullard: Well, you guys, until next year, for the deep dives at least, you've still got two more episodes for this year. But, uh, until next time, stay happy, healthy, and safe, and we will see you then.

[48:32] Gareth Isaac: Bye!

[48:33] Tori Bullard: Bye!