This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast, bringing you backstage and behind the Broadway scenes with the stars, creators, and industry leaders behind the controversial, expensive, and entirely fictional Avatar the Musical.

[0:12] Gordon Cox: This is a special bonus episode of Stagecraft. I recorded in collaboration with the folks behind the fictionalized audio comedy As the Curtain Rises, following the onstage drama and backstage shenanigans of an unauthorized Broadway musical version of Avatar.

[0:27] Gordon Cox: The series has a great cast of Broadway favorites, including Ashley Park, Ariana DeBose, Alex Brightman, Michael Uri, Ramin Caramle, and Sarah Styles.

[0:34] Gordon Cox: And in this episode of Stagecraft, I interview Cheryl Phillips and Steve Jones, Avatar's squabbling mega producers, played by Lillias White and James Monroe Iglehart.

[0:45] Gordon Cox: Enjoy. And if you want to find out how Avatar the Musical turns out, check out As the Curtain Rises on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:59] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast, bringing you backstage and behind the scenes with the stars, creators, and industry leaders behind Broadway's biggest hits.

[1:09] Gordon Cox: I'm your host, Gordon Cox. On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to legendary theater producers Steve Jones and Cheryl Phillips about their sure-to-be legendary new project, Avatar the Musical.

[1:20] Gordon Cox: Cheryl and Steve, thanks so much for joining me.

[1:22] Lillias White: Well, thanks for having us, Gordon.

[1:24] James Monroe Iglehart: I mean, I was so glad of you to uh call us.

[1:26] Lillias White: It wasn't unexpected.

[1:28] James Monroe Iglehart: I mean, seeing the fact that we have a great show, uh, the fact that you were nice enough to let Cheryl come along is just really, really uh nice.

[1:35] Lillias White: Thank you, Gordon, for inviting us.

[1:39] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh it's it's wonderful to have someone with uh such integrity be interested in our little production.

[1:48] Lillias White: Yeah, integrity. We like that word.

[1:50] James Monroe Iglehart: Mm-hmm. Uh you know, I wonder if you could if we could start by just having you both tell us how you got involved in the project, and did you know right away that you wanted to produce something this epic, a show this epic?

[2:04] Lillias White: Well, I was so happy to be working with these writers again, and uh to know that they were creating something that was so extraordinary that people would flock to the theater in droves to come and witness this telling of the story of what I call the blue people.

[2:20] James Monroe Iglehart: Which is which is great because it's yellow and black. But listen, the what's what's really great is the fact that um I knew I knew we had a hit uh on our hands from the first moment that uh that uh that the concept came to us.

[2:33] Lillias White: And um the writers uh, you know, wanted to work with me, love me, think I'm great, know my record. I mean, come on, my record.

[2:41] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh but your record, quite frankly, Steve is not uh exemplary. Uh however, we are glad to have uh these writers on board because they are Tony Award-winning writers, and we are Tony Award-winning producers, although I don't know how Steve ever made that category.

[3:00] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, it's I I have more than you, but that's not the point. The point is that we all have Tonies, and the point is that the writers, you know, listen, we are in 2021, we are in 2021, and we must have all perspectives.

[3:12] Lillias White: And so they wanted to bring in a lady, and we were like, find one. And then Cheryl showed up.

[3:17] James Monroe Iglehart: So we're we're all we're all here and we're all bringing something wonderful to it. And uh listen, it's gonna be a hit if people are gonna love it.

[3:24] Lillias White: Yeah, people are going to love it. They're already buying tickets and droves. Although uh we're waiting for Steve's part of the contribution to the production uh monies.

[3:35] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh, we understand that he's having a little trouble getting some of his people on board. Uh but all the people that I have in my camp are ready, willing, and able to put their money where their mouth is, where their mouths are, if you will.

[3:48] James Monroe Iglehart: I just got off the plane off of Red Eye with uh uh had a meeting with Cameron, and uh we spoke about how we can further uh uh push this idea of having this particular story told on stage. He's all for it, he's all in, and uh his money is where his mouth is.

[4:08] Lillias White: Well, the funny thing when it when it when it comes, sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there.

[4:11] James Monroe Iglehart: Please, when it when it when it comes to listen, when it comes to money, uh my my money is being put into the one thing that this show needs marketing.

[4:19] I mean, have you seen the posters in in Times Square? I mean, we actually had flying banshees out there picking people up and bringing them to the theater.

[4:28] Lillias White: And since we're name dropping, I mean, everybody knows that when the original movie was uh presented, uh it was bought by this wonderful little company. You may have heard of it called Disney.

[4:38] James Monroe Iglehart: And so I, of course, one of my dear, dear friends, Mr. Schumacher. We we spoke to each other. He calls me Mr. Jones, I call him Mr. Schumacher. We talked about it, and we are already working on not only putting this show on tour, but putting it in the parks where it belongs.

[4:53] Lillias White: So not only were you able to see this on Broadway, but when you go to one of those amazing parks in Florida or Japan or in Hong Kong, you will be able to see this show.

[5:03] James Monroe Iglehart: And you do realize that uh there'll be lawsuits abound if we dare to have people flying with banshees, flying around in the air with badge. Are you mad?

[5:15] Lillias White: Think about these roller coasters. This is not the place.

[5:19] James Monroe Iglehart: Not the place. Uh Gordon, you're talking about.

[5:21] Lillias White: Well, I I beg to differ. The people need to know what's going on.

[5:24] James Monroe Iglehart: They need to know what's going on. Tell us, actually, Cheryl, please.

[5:27] Lillias White: They need to know that uh this could be a really bad thing to have banshees flying around. Can you imagine your children? Would you put your children in the hands of a banshee flying around Times Square?

[5:39] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, I absolutely don't think so.

[5:41] Lillias White: Yes, I would. And here's why.

[5:42] James Monroe Iglehart: Here's why. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, you have sat through generation after generation of new spectaculars. It started with Oklahoma.

[5:51] Lillias White: The first time that we had opera brought to the musical theater stage. Opera is one thing, but Pyroclassics and Banshees is totally something.

[6:02] James Monroe Iglehart: Jason, with JC Superstar, you had rock and roll. Then we flash forward. We flash forward to wrecked, where they had microphones on their faces. And then we flashed. I should say, sorry. We went to we went to Phantom, where we had Pyrotechnics on stage.

[6:16] Lillias White: Then we have Lion King. All these wicked, wicked people are flying. Spider-Man, scratch that. Don't talk about that.

[6:22] James Monroe Iglehart: Listen, the Please don't talk about Spider-Man. The fact that we can now go, we can trace our our our theatrical steps from Phantom to the Harry Potter musical to Aladdin, which I had something to do with, by the way.

[6:36] Lillias White: And all the way to our show now, that's what we're talking about. So people flying, people being a part of it, that's what people want nowadays. It's not just sitting back. They want to be a part of the action. And our banshees will make that happen.

[6:50] James Monroe Iglehart: And trust me, our banshees will bankrupt the production of this show. Banshees are known to have poisonous poop. And they are known to have very sharp uh uh uh nails. And so I personally would not risk putting my loved ones in the hands of something that's that toxic.

[7:12] Lillias White: Um but you're not gonna carry your loved ones. There's no way those bandages will get close to your loved ones. We're talking about the wonderful normal families that come see a show.

[7:21] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, maybe then we should have all of your loved ones being carried around and flown around by banshees.

[7:26] Lillias White: They already are. My limos are about to my limos are about to be replaced by just flying banshees, trust me. I can't wait for them.

[7:31] James Monroe Iglehart: I can't wait for them to pick you up and drop you in the middle of uh Central Park.

[7:37] Lillias White: It's gonna be fantastic.

[7:38] James Monroe Iglehart: In pieces, safely.

[7:40] Lillias White: Yes. You know, all this uh discussion about what a spectacle this is gonna be. You know, there's a lot of talk. Uh you you did mention Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark, and I feel like people in the community are talking about the fact that Avatar could replace Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark as the most expensive musical ever made. Is that true? And are you keeping how hard is it to keep the budget under control for something?

[8:03] James Monroe Iglehart: No, it's one of those things where you have to really be um on your game and your your your people, your accountants, uh, your managers, knowing where all the money is going. Which is why you have to hope that you don't have someone like Steve Jones who's been known to abscond with the funds.

[8:21] Lillias White: Ladies and gentlemen, you uh and and Gordon, and I I say, ladies and gentlemen, and I use this, you know, loosely for you know, this wonderful lady here. Uh we uh I had in my early career as a producer a couple of moments. Now, we all start off some places, certain things don't always go the way they are, go the way they should go.

[8:42] James Monroe Iglehart: But over the past few years, I have had nothing. Nothing but hits, Asterix. Nothing but hits to be in the right place. And sure, you know, you can't make an ominous without breaking some eggs. But listen, here's the thing. When it comes to Steve Jones, hit is what I get.

[9:00] Lillias White: Now, no disrespect.

[9:02] James Monroe Iglehart: No disrespect to Cheryl, but Cheryl has had a hit. Most of them are mediocre things, which is why I brought her on board.

[9:09] Lillias White: Excuse me, but you were brought on board by Cheryl Phillips.

[9:17] James Monroe Iglehart: Cheryl Phillips was here first. I brought the writers, my dear.

[9:22] Lillias White: I brought the writers and without the writers, you don't have a show.

[9:24] James Monroe Iglehart: But the writers knew they could not get Avatar without me.

[9:28] Lillias White: That's not true. I brought the director.

[9:29] James Monroe Iglehart: I brought the director. I brought the paper. I brought the star.

[9:36] Lillias White: Well, we'll see about that. I've been speaking to Cameron Diaz as well about replacing your star.

[9:42] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, you can talk to Cameron. Listen, the problem is we all know, and this is this is we should finally get this out of the way. We're finally good. Cameron and I had a little problem one time when we were trying to produce gremlins for for his wonderful London stage.

[9:59] Lillias White: And he didn't like the fact that I said he wanted to bring in some puppeteer animatronic things. And I said, no, no, children, bring in children. Let's use children.

[10:11] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, but do you want children to be flown around with on with banshees? I don't understand your lots.

[10:17] Lillias White: So he's still mad at me that our little deal fell through. But listen, I deal fell through because you couldn't come up with the funding. You couldn't even like it. You couldn't put your people together to get the funding to get to get even a demo, a demonstration show.

[10:33] James Monroe Iglehart: Cameron owns the theater. The fact is London is Cameron's town. So we had to move to New York. If we were in, if we were in MAP home, we were in New York City, we wouldn't have that problem. Cam owns the UK, and that's fine. So you can kick it with Cam. I'm gonna come over here where the real theater is.

[10:47] Lillias White: That's right. I said where the real theater is. Over here on Broadway.

[10:51] James Monroe Iglehart: But like I said, Gordon, the show's gonna be an amazing spectacle. People are gonna love it. We're gonna have everything, you know.

[10:56] Lillias White: Yeah.

[10:57] James Monroe Iglehart: Yeah.

[10:57] Gordon Cox: Well, let's talk a little bit about the creative team you put in place. Both uh the writers, the Cheryl that you mentioned, and uh and the cast, Steve that you mentioned. Uh first of all, tell us about working with Bobby and Kay and what you feel like their music and lyrics really bring out of the story.

[11:13] Lillias White: Bobby and Kay have a unique ability to suss out what's really important in a story and and get the uh the the characters to display in full real time what is important, what's the important message in the show? They have a wonderful way with words and with music, and together they make a great team.

[11:37] Lillias White: And I have every confidence that they will make this the spectacular show that it needs to be.

[11:43] James Monroe Iglehart: Cameron and Bobby are a great team. Uh, they uh they know what they're doing, and we're looking forward to hearing and seeing the words, the music, the majesty and the magic of this show, as told by these two spectacular writers.

[12:05] Lillias White: And then you brought in Thomas Navarro to write the book. I understand.

[12:08] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, yes, I did. I brought in Thomas because uh, because they have history. I brought in Thomas because when we first started working on the script, we first when they when Bobby and Kay started working on it, Bobby and Kay were having a little issues.

[12:24] James Monroe Iglehart: Uh, and the script wasn't that strong. The songs were good, but the story itself wasn't where it needed to be. So I brought in Thomas and Thomas fixed it. And now their little Trump variant is great. The three of them have come up with a great story, and everybody's loving it. But thanks to Thomas stepping in to doctor the script the way it needed to be doctored.

[12:46] Lillias White: Sometimes you need to bring in help. And Thomas is there to doctor himself. It's hard. There is no wedge between the writers if the writers put a wedge between themselves. Thomas is trouble. He's trouble. He's really not that proficient. Bobby is very happy with Thomas being there.

[13:04] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh, well, I'm sure Bobby is because they had history, as you and Tommy have had history. Tommy's been around, if you know what I mean. Uh but uh Tommy's written some wonderful things. He's written some wonderful things, but none of them have charted uh uh on billboard charts, and uh none of them have Grammys or none of them have any.

[13:23] Lillias White: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Tommy Tommy's just written some Pulitzer things. He's just written, he's just written some great novels. He just he just worked for companies like I don't know, DC Comics. He's just he's he's worked, he's worked for some companies like you know, like reads comics anymore.

[13:38] James Monroe Iglehart: Did you know? Just because you don't know what's going on in the world, right? People don't read comics anymore. They're looking at cartoons, children are looking at TV and video. And they are so grateful for it, especially. They are not entirely happy with it. It's called a lot of it's caused a lot of dissension. But anyway, Tommy is uh Tommy's uh he's maybe.

[14:04] Lillias White: I'm so glad that you're that you're putting our family laundry all on public.

[14:08] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, honey, it's already public, it's already public. Everybody knows about you.

[14:12] Gordon Cox: What were you gonna say, Gordon?

[14:14] Lillias White: Uh, you know, I was uh just gonna change the subject to the cast. Let's uh talk a little bit about it's talking about Stavros. Let's talk about let's talk about Stavros.

[14:23] James Monroe Iglehart: Yes, I'm hearing he's the new Aaron Tavate. People say he's point of discovery. This man is everything you want in a leading man. He's one of those guys that you know when you watch those those those movies about musicals or about auditions, and they walk through the room and all of a sudden like birds start shining and stars appear. That's what happened when this man walked in the room.

[14:46] Lillias White: Even this one who can't even be moved by a set of abs was moved by this man.

[14:51] James Monroe Iglehart: Is that you?

[14:52] Lillias White: You mean you. It doesn't take it doesn't take a set of abs to move you, darling. We all know that. Savros is very talented. And he will be the star you're talking about. You can already pretty much give the Tony now.

[15:02] James Monroe Iglehart: Pretty much give the Tony. I I agree with you, Steve, that Stavros is going to be a very important part of this success of the show. Um, he was kind of uh overlooked by his girlfriend, and uh so we almost didn't have Stavros, but I'm very glad that it worked out that he was able to display his talent and uh his own.

[15:25] Lillias White: And it was my decision. It was my decision to hire him. We were looking for a leading man, couldn't find one, and Stavros walked in and said, That's the guy. Stavros wasn't he was a shoe in. And also, that's what happens when you're the lead producer. You can make that decision.

[15:35] James Monroe Iglehart: Darling, you are not the lead producer. My name goes above yours.

[15:40] Lillias White: No, it doesn't never ever, ever.

[15:43] James Monroe Iglehart: You should look at the poster.

[15:45] Lillias White: Well, then the posters will come down and it would be changed.

[15:47] James Monroe Iglehart: It will be. I paid for the poster. Remember, marketing, that's me. I did I did that. That's why. That's why. Uh huh. Go ahead.

[15:55] Lillias White: Speaking of names on the poster, I feel like the biggest name on the poster, at least right now, is Emma Olivia, of course. She's uh, you know, she's a great big Broadway star. What um she is also sort of a legendary handful. How has it been going working with her?

[16:07] James Monroe Iglehart: You know, there's a Olivia is a very talented uh performer, and uh she can be a bit of a pill to work with. Uh, but we are working things out with her. She's very concerned that Stavros has gotten all this attention. But to be sure, the writers are going to give her plenty of work to do and plenty of star turns, so she shouldn't be worried about a thing.

[16:33] Lillias White: Let's just say this. When the 11 o'clock number rolls around, you will never ever forget about the woman that we're talking about right now. The world, the world already knows how great she is.

[16:45] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, she's already legendary, but she's not always always legendary for her for her work. Once an 11 o'clock number hits, you will put her in the same category as the Fosters, the Lapones. You will put her in the same category as the McDonald's, as LaShans. You will put her in the same category.

[17:05] Lillias White: You will never put her in the category of someone like uh Alilius White, for instance.

[17:10] James Monroe Iglehart: Well, she does not have that versatility and she does not have that capability. We never said that we would put her in Lillias White's category. That's a whole different thing. Lillias White is a freaking legend. We're talking about everything from Disney to Tony's to television. You cannot put a person in the category with Lillias White.

[17:32] Lillias White: But this is true. You are just can I finally tell the story? However, however, she's a pill. She's a pill to work with.

[17:40] James Monroe Iglehart: Cheryl brings up very difficult brings up. She's really upset because Cheryl tried to get Lilius for her show. But Lilius was busy.

[17:53] Lillias White: Lillian chose me.

[17:55] James Monroe Iglehart: Lillias chose me.

[17:57] Lillias White: Oh, that will never happen. Lilius and I have known each other for years. Yes, she's my friend. And Cheryl and Lillias had an issue with a man. We won't discuss it. Cheryl doesn't want to discuss it. And that's why Lilius doesn't do our shows. But she keeps trying to kiss up to Lilius to make Lilius feel good. Lilius is never gonna do your show. And you need to really just get over it.

[18:14] James Monroe Iglehart: You are really hilarious, okay? You're very, very, very well mistaken.

[18:18] Lillias White: Oh my god. Uh Lilius White has nothing to do with this conversation. I'm just comparing. I did bring it up because I want you to know that the person that you're speaking of does not is not in the category of uh all of those people. She is she's good, but she's difficult to work with, and that becomes a problem when it's time to put the show on and to get it running consistently, and to have people in this matter who are not worried about her not showing up.

[18:46] James Monroe Iglehart: She's gonna show up, she's gonna be there when the lights turn on, you will see her. When the lights turn on, you will see our leading man, and when the lights turn off and the curtain comes down, you will see a standing ovation, nothing but applause, and I guarantee you, I guarantee you, every review will be positive.

[19:07] Lillias White: Well, if you pay for them, they will be.

[19:10] James Monroe Iglehart: That's true. Yes, speaking of opening night, um which is what you get after uh which is where reviews come from. You have some pretty big plans for opening night.

[19:20] Lillias White: I don't, but uh tell us about it. Sounds like you're transforming Times Squared. Uh give us some details.

[19:25] James Monroe Iglehart: I am. You know, there's I I went to see the um cursed child musical. And uh they had, you know, the first show ended and they took us to this little, you know, hotel, and it was beautifully done. After the show, we went back to the same place and it was magically changed. Between the first two shows, it was magically changed. I said, if you could do this with a building, we can do this with Time Square. And that's why we're planning on having a big parade all the way down from Duffy Square all the way down uh 42nd Street to celebrate this wonderful occasion of an opening night of a show that will be as legendary and long lasting as Cats.

[20:10] Lillias White: Very true. Very true. It's going all the stars are coming. It's going to be great. We are we like I said, we have we have the Banshees, we have a parade, we have a band, we have, you know, it's it's almost like you know when you go to the street fairs that are on 8th Avenue, just imagine that, but actually classy, you know, with real good food. Not that not that crap they served down there in this Friday Oreo. Real stuff, real stuff.

[20:31] James Monroe Iglehart: It's gonna be great. I I wonder, as we all look forward to that, I wonder if we could wrap up uh just by having you both tell me a little bit about why you think now is the right time for Avatar the Musical and for the story it's telling and why it fits on Broadway right now in particular.

[20:47] Lillias White: I think it fits on Broadway right now because people have been locked up under quarantine, uh locked into their homes and looking at Netflix or Hulu, and they're craving a live experience that will uh really uh titillate their senses. They they are craving something that they are somewhat familiar with, but that will enhance their understanding and their appreciation of live theater. We are going to give the people something so spectacular that they will never forget and uh that they will come back to see again and again.

[21:30] James Monroe Iglehart: And we have all these plans to have different casts become uh different characters and then be continue this show uh for very long term to give the people what they need, which is live theater in front of live people with tricks, yes, with some animation, yes, with some things that you know will be spun to to make them wide-eyed. Yes, we'll have some of those things, but we will have genuine, wonderful actors and performers to give the people what they need. They need live, they need life.

[22:09] Lillias White: And also, I will just to add to that, there is a um there's a part of our story that speaks to the uh the underdog, you know, with what's going on in 2020, with all the things that all the different causes that have come through with the with people protesting, with people feeling that they're not being heard from different sections of the world. This show does that, you know. Or what what's happening in in Avatar? Our lead character is also going through that. Trying to be heard, trying not to be misrepresentated, not trying, trying to show that they not only have a voice, but they're a person, and they need to be heard and not only heard, but respected.

[22:58] James Monroe Iglehart: And so when people who are going through what they're going through all of this time see this story, they're gonna say, That's me. They're gonna say, I feel that. I I get where this is going. And then when it's all said and done, when it's all said and done, and the curtain comes down and the parade comes out and and people see it. We have a grand marshal for the parade. And I couldn't think of anybody else better than the Tony Award-winning James Monroe Eigelhardt. He will be in a car riding down the street, just waving and throwing stickers that say Avatar. We have these great stickers as the avatar, and they're gonna be great, and everybody's gonna grab one, their sunglasses, the avatar on them. There's gonna be stuffed uh banshee animals that he's gonna throw. They're gonna be in the car. It's going to be fabulous.

[23:46] Lillias White: It will be this is gonna be this is gonna be epic. It will be epic. It's going to be a really great, great uh reopening of the experience that is theater, and with all the technology that we have at our fingertips, we're going to make this an unforgettable time.

[24:03] James Monroe Iglehart: And egotistically, egotistically, and I don't like to be egotistical.

[24:07] Lillias White: Oh no, never egotistically.

[24:10] James Monroe Iglehart: I am really looking forward to the look on Jeffrey Sellers' face with his mega hit Hamilton when he finally feels what it's like to be number two.

[24:23] Lillias White: Well, I'm not here to be revengeful as some people are. But I I'm looking forward towards pleasing the people and getting our pleasing the people and making sure that the people are happy. That's what I'm saying. That's what matters and that they see themselves in these characters.

[24:42] Gordon Cox: Well, I can't wait to see the show and the look on Jeffrey's face. And uh whose name will be on top on the poster. Thank you both so much for being here.

[24:49] Lillias White: Thank you.

[24:52] James Monroe Iglehart: Thank you very much.

[24:53] Lillias White: Have a great day, everyone.

[24:55] James Monroe Iglehart: You too.

[24:55] Lillias White: Bye-bye.

[24:57] Gordon Cox: Talk to you later, Steve.

[24:58] James Monroe Iglehart: Oh good. Please don't call me.

[25:00] Gordon Cox: Uh-huh. That was Cheryl Phillips and Steve Jones, the two producers who will bring Avatar the Musical to Broadway if they don't kill each other first. You can find past episodes of Stagecraft and subscribe everywhere you listen to podcasts, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and the Broadway Podcast Network, which is a great place to find more theater for your ears. I'll be back soon with another new episode. Until then, find me on Twitter at G Cox Variety. Thanks for listening and see you soon.