This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:06] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast. Your backstage pass to intimate conversations with stars, creators, and industry leaders. On Broadway, off Broadway, and beyond. I'm Gordon Cox. On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to Molly Gordon. She's one of the creators of a summer movie comedy that's aimed squarely at you, listeners, and at me. It's called Theater Camp. Gordon co-created the mockumentary with her longtime friend and recent Stagecraft guest Ben Platt, his partner Noah Galvin, and the director Nick Lieberman. She also co-directed the movie with Lieberman. Theater Camp was an audience favorite at the Sundance Film Festival earlier this year, and it quickly sold to Searchlight for release this summer.

Theater nerds can see what all the excitement is about when the comedy hits movie theaters July 14th. You can also catch Gordon in the recently released second season of the Buzzy Hulu TV series, The Bear. Now, Gordon is in the virtual studio with me to tell us about improvising an entire movie, growing up in real-life theater camps, and performing in Fiddler at six years old. Hey Molly, thanks for joining me.

[1:15] Molly Gordon: Of course, thank you for having me.

[1:17] Gordon Cox: Yeah, so your movie is about to come out. How are you feeling about it?

[1:21] Molly Gordon: It's fucking insane. I feel um scared and grateful, and it's, you know, we've been trying to make this for so many years, so the fact that it's actually coming out and in theaters is a wild thing.

[1:34] Gordon Cox: Before we talk more about the feature version, I wonder if we could wind it all the way back to uh the way things began in the very, very beginning. One of your collaborators on the film is Ben Platt, and he is someone who all the listeners of this podcast will know. He was a guest on the podcast, you know, just around Tony time. Um, and uh Ben is someone you have known for a very, very long time, almost your entire life, it seems. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[2:05] Molly Gordon: Yeah, I met Ben when I was around three years old doing community theater at the Atterley School. Um, and uh her name's Janet Adderley, and Io's character is named after her in the movie. And I was just so taken with Ben when I met him at three. I was like, who is this hunk? I am in love with you. Um, and I've tried to get him to love me for over 20 years.

[2:30] Gordon Cox: And so you remember this.

[2:31] Molly Gordon: I was my next question was gonna be do you have any memory of uh your three-year-old self meeting three-year-old Ben Platt.

[2:41] Molly Gordon: You know, it's a funny thing if it is it like a real memory, or is it kind of what I think happened? But no, I remember um I remember watching him sing for the first time, and all of the Plats in the beginning of their vocal journey have this like amazing rasp. And Ben sounded like how he sounds now, but as if he smoked 20 cigarettes a day. He was this like raspy, gorgeous singer. And I just I fell for him fully.

[3:09] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And there are uh, you know, little bits of home movies in in uh theater camp and like photos of you and of you and him. Is that right? Those are really you in there, right?

[3:21] Molly Gordon: We paid a hundred million dollars to have to have those created for the film. Um, we were so we were so lucky that we could use that footage, and you know, our parents are so excited that it's in the movie. It's really sweet.

[3:36] Gordon Cox: Aww. Oh yeah, like there are little home movies and stuff. I feel like I have read that you did fiddler together at like, I don't know, four years old or something. Am I making that up?

[3:44] Molly Gordon: Yeah I think I was around six and I was um I was from a Sarah and then why am I forgetting I was also the I was Hava. They do double casting at that early school and so some nights I was from a Sarah some nights I was Hava. Um and wow that's tough for you were six really hard I was six I know my my from a Sarah was like really dropped in like I was on some crazy shit. Um but I yeah we love doing that show but we had done like I think like 20 shows by the time we were 11 years old. It was so crazy.

[4:26] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And this is in the LA area is that right?

[4:30] Molly Gordon: Yes.

[4:30] Gordon Cox: Yeah right right and uh do you have are there um when you think back of the shows you did is there one in particular that really uh stands out to you at that time in your life?

[4:30] Molly Gordon: I we did into the woods um and uh Ben was the baker and I was the witch and Sontime is just like you know yeah is everything to us so getting to do that um and getting to do it with him was so special and I just remember that being a really special production.

[5:00] Gordon Cox: Yeah did you know all along that uh show business in general and performing in particular was something that you wanted to pursue?

[5:00] Molly Gordon: You know I I always knew that I wanted a really creative life. And I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do within that. But I my mom always says that I came out of the womb, like I slithered out, like I shimmied out. And I think I've always had a lot of energy and creativity. And theater was just such a beautiful place where I could come and be myself and use that for something.

[5:37] Gordon Cox: Right. And you both of your parents uh work in Hollywood. How did they feel? How do they did they and do they feel about you uh following in their footsteps?

[5:48] Molly Gordon: I mean, I think it's it's very meaningful for this moment is very meaningful for them and as it is for me, like to have a movie in in theaters is like, especially now, is such a once in a lifetime thing. Um, but I think they've they just wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do. They never pushed me into anything. They just, you know, exposed me to so much incredible art as a kid and and brought me, you know, I'm an only child and would bring me to dinner parties and I would be having interesting discussions when I was, you know, 10 years old. And I I'm just so lucky that my parenting um was always that my opinion mattered. And I um I feel so grateful that I had that.

[6:30] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And so tell me about the experiences you have had at theater camp or theater camps, like the one depicted in in the film.

[6:40] Molly Gordon: Yeah, I mean, I I went to I obviously did that Adderly program, which had a camp, and then I went to stage door, and I mean, what an what a completely insane and wonderful oasis. Like it camp is the stakes at camp are insane, and it's so beautiful to have this three week period in your life where everything feels like the biggest deal in the entire world. Are we gonna be able to pull this off? Can I hit an A minor? Like, can we do this? Can I learn this step? And uh it was just so fun to get to roast that and also um give it the love that it deserves.

[7:19] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And how many years did you end up doing that?

[7:23] Molly Gordon: I went for like three or four years. Um, so a lot of time I spent there in the cat skills uh of New York.

[7:34] Gordon Cox: Do you have a sense of how that time influenced how you have evolved as a professional now and the and influence the way you work?

[7:45] Molly Gordon: I mean, I think I have a I think it definitely helped me with the kind of show must go on mentality. I think that having three weeks to pull off a show and um this kind of pressure cooker experience um has pushed me in my life to just um I don't know, to that work ethic has really um I do feel like a lot of that came from having to do so many shows in such a short period of time and also the kind of letting go, like, oh I messed it up, but we're gonna keep going. Like theater just is such a great metaphor for life. Um and yeah, I feel so grateful for those years.

[8:26] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And so if we fast forward a little bit to the short film that you made with Ben and with his partner Noah Galvin and with Nick Lieberman, who is your co-director on uh on the the feature, uh how and when did that come about?

[8:43] Molly Gordon: We in 2017 had a chapter between work for all of us, and I think we all felt like we wanted to make something um as a kind of collective and and also just wanted to show ourselves in a way that we felt hadn't been seen. And we we questioned what we should do. And then when it kind of came to us, it's like, why are we not going to make something about theater? That's where we all met. And we know it so well and we love it so much. So we have license to make fun of it. Um it was just like a really special experience. And then for the last like six years, we've been trying to make it into something larger.

[9:21] Gordon Cox: And so, and well, tell me about the sort of short film version of it. When, how and when did that happen?

[9:28] Molly Gordon: That was in 2017. We um we got a studio at Ripley Greer. We went to Noah's um high school PPAS and basically stole children. They were like, of course, please here take these kids. And they were amazing. And we we, you know, for for zero dollars, we made this short, right? Um, this fully improvised short, and we brought in our friends and and it was just such a fun and hard and hard but really fulfilling experience, and also just kind of showed us, oh, we we just need to be brave enough to make something. Um, I think that's the biggest thing in life. Like we all have iPhones, we all like just get out there and just try and put yourself out there. I think so much, so many of us are just so fearful, and I think I I of being judged or or not being perfect, and I'm I'm glad that I I got out of that mentality around that time because that's definitely held me back in my life.

[10:25] Gordon Cox: And as you were making this short, what was the intention? What were you going to do with it? And then how did that evolve?

[10:33] Molly Gordon: We wanted to use it as kind of a proof of concept that we could do something on a larger scale, and I think people really enjoyed the short, but they just still questioned how could we make an improvised movie with children? And is theater something people even want to watch? And also, you know, all the movies that I grew up on that really inspired me are these like weirder specific films, and they're just not made anymore. And it's exciting. There's a lot of them coming out this summer. And I hope people show up for them so more of those movies are made.

[11:10] Gordon Cox: Right. And at some point it became sort of generally available. Is that right?

[11:14] Molly Gordon: It was on YouTube for a while. Yeah, in COVID, I kind of woke up in the middle of the night at like 3 a.m. and texted everyone being like, let's just put it on the internet. That gave us a little bit of traction that, oh, people were enjoying it. And so then we could go to people and at least say, hey, you know, Star 97 thinks that this is funny. Like, would you guys want to make a movie with us?

[11:39] Gordon Cox: Right, right. And is that the thing? Because you mentioned that there was a kind of reluctance on the part of the business to kind of take a chance on this improvised movie about theater. Was that the thing that kind of cracked the door open a little wider for you? Was that audience response, that online response?

[11:57] Molly Gordon: I maybe a little, but I also think it was just like everything that I love that's out there was always just one person saying yes, and kind of feels like it's a mistake because there just aren't that many great things out there. So when we, when Jessica Albaum became involved and really helped us push this forward, it wasn't until we met Eric Feig at Picture Start where he went, you know what, I'm gonna take a risk. I'm gonna make this movie. And there weren't a lot of other people lining up to do it. So I feel really lucky that that happened.

[12:32] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And you mentioned the movies that you love that often don't get made much these days that your movie resembles. Can you name some of those movies?

[12:41] Molly Gordon: It seems like "Waiting for Guffman" is kind of the most obvious kind of, if not inspiration, but a sibling to what you are doing with "Theater Camp." Yeah, I mean obviously Christopher Guest is like the best in the biz at this. It's like he was the most inspiring to me growing up and the fact that he took this community and wrote specifically for them and then, you know, his pieces are so silly but also so grounded. He's so unbelievably gifted. And then, yeah, I mean, I think growing up my parents showing me like Cassavetes' movies and Altman movies and the fact that they also wrote specifically for a community and then also, you know, like "Little Miss Sunshine" and "Napoleon Dynamite," like these kind of smaller films that were really successful or found their audience, they're just not made anymore. These sweet films, films that have their heart on their sleeves.

[13:44] Gordon Cox: I'll have more with Molly right after the break. And now here's more of my conversation with actor, writer, and director Molly Gordon. And so you've been given the green light to make this film. What was that process? So if it's entirely improvised, how do you come up with a structure? Tell me about how you worked with your collaborators to kind of find the bones of the piece and then how you worked with the folks you assembled in your cast.

[14:23] Molly Gordon: We knew we had to have an incredibly tight scriptment with really clear boundaries and a really clear beginning, middle, and end. So then when we got to set, we could feel free to explore around that. And so we all worked for a long time, you know, making sure that we had those guardrails and the specificity of every character. And then once we knew who was going to be in it, writing specifically for them, and then hiring amazing people that we knew that are unbelievable improvisers, like Io Debris and Patty Harrison, and then we wrote for Jimmy specifically, and when he said yes, we were like, oh my god, I think we have a movie because he's also one of the best improvisers around right now.

[15:04] Gordon Cox: Right. And so did you like, did each scene have a sort of beginning and an ending? And it was like how you got there that was up in the air? Or like tell me about just how amorphous things can be as you're shooting a movie.

[15:18] Molly Gordon: No, everything is clear what's going to happen in the scene. It's just what they're gonna be saying is gonna be a choose your own adventure. Right. We obviously wrote specific jokes for certain stuff, and we wrote an entire musical as well, but it was really, you know, I've been lucky enough to work on a lot of comedies and you always kind of have 10 minutes at the end to make it your own, do an improv version. And I just have always had this dream. What if the whole movie was those 10 minutes?

[15:50] Gordon Cox: Right. And so what are some of your favorite moments in the film that grew out of improv?

[16:01] Molly Gordon: I mean, I'm so proud of all the classes because we would shoot hour-long takes of real acting classes, and all of the kids were so dropped in, they never broke. And then Owen and Ayo and Ben are just so brilliant. Watching Ben teach a real acting class as Amos was just one of the most special moments of my life. But specifically, the kids are such unbelievable improvisers, and I knew that to my core that they were gonna be amazing, but it was so hard to get people to understand that kids could improvise. I actually think they're much better than adults because they're so free and not in their heads and jaded. But they were just, they knew their characters so well.

[16:45] Gordon Cox: How well did you know the people who signed on to the film? Because obviously the four of you knew each other really well, the co-creators, but then how well did you know the sort of adult performers who you brought in?

[17:00] Molly Gordon: We knew a lot of them, like Io and Patty are two of my closest girlfriends. Yeah, and Jimmy we didn't know, and then Nick is close with Caroline Aaron. That was like an incredible moment when she said yes to being a part of it. And then Amy we didn't know, we just offered it to her, and we felt so lucky, like that oh my, Amy Sedaris, Amy fucking Sedaris, like is the, and I just love like your theater teachers in your life are like God to you, and the fact that that is played by Amy Sedaris is just like the most special thing in the world. She's everything to me and more, so that was such a cool moment when she said yes.

[17:42] Gordon Cox: Yeah, and how you, it sounds like it was a short shoot. It was something like 19 days. Did I read that right?

[17:48] Molly Gordon: Yes, it was 19 days. I sweat more than I ever have in my entire life. It was the craziest 19 days in the world, but we did it like the show must go on. We just figured it out. But we shot an entire musical in like two and a half days. It was crazy.

[18:06] Gordon Cox: Right, right. And where was it happening at that, like at what time of year was it actually summer or what, where was it? Where was this all going on?

[18:15] Molly Gordon: We literally finished shooting a year ago yesterday, which is crazy. We shot at a real summer camp that's not running anymore in upstate New York, and it felt very meta, like you know, we're at a real camp with kids, we're all in our little cabins, like it was very much like a camp experience.

[18:39] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. And as you were putting it all together, what is it about theater and theater people and show people that you really wanted to celebrate?

[18:50] Molly Gordon: If you want to work in the arts, it's because you really want to work in the arts. It is not because you're going to be paid for that. You want to be there because of the deep joy of getting to live a creative existence. And I wanted to celebrate those people, our teachers that have changed all of our lives, celebrate the people that took us seriously for the first time as kids. And then also theater people are just the main characters of their own life. They're just unbelievable subjects. And I was just so excited to also make fun of it in such a loving way. And also, theater is, you know, I mean, all arts is kind of on the chopping block right now, and like seasons are getting shorter, and no one's going to see movies, no one's seeing theater. Live performing is just the most beautiful thing in the entire world. So I also just wanted to celebrate how important it is and how life-changing it is.

[19:43] Gordon Cox: What in particular in the film is inspired by a real-life person or a real-life experience?

[19:51] Molly Gordon: So honestly, so many moments. But I think the kind of message of the last, I mean, I don't want to give it away, but the last few minutes of our movie, like I just, I think I've just had a moment where being in community theater where I was like, oh, this is my home. Like, I found my home, I found my people. And I, you know, theater is just such a place where anyone can be themselves. And so the fact that we really got to shine a light on how beautiful that is means a lot to me. And then also, like I kissed a gay boy at camp that didn't know he was gay, and he kissed me and immediately came out to me. So I really wanted to roast the one straight character at camp, but that all the girls kind of want to get with this one gay guy and this one straight guy, and then he ended up being gay. It was like I really wanted to make fun of that. But so many moments. The tear stick I've taken from a funny moment in my life.

[20:45] Molly Gordon: Like, I've had a notes app of silly stuff, and I know we all have the four of us for the last few years, yeah. Uh, what is the joy in sort of roasting uh not only like the folks who love theater, but also yourselves, ourselves uh in in in telling this story. I mean, what's funny is some people are like, oh, this is so crazy. It's like I'm just as crazy as this. Like, I'm uh we're we're artists, we're kooky free people and I just wanted to make fun of that and make fun of myself and make fun of the self-seriousness of like if I don't get this part I'm gonna die if I don't finish this I'm gonna it's like arts are like the highest stakes and the lowest aches like it's just an amazing world and I really just wanted to like poke fun at myself and at my friends and yeah.

[21:37] Molly Gordon: And so you finished uh shooting and then you had I imagine hours and hours of footage to then edit uh you and your co-director with your uh editing team what how long did that take? Is that particularly hard in an improv film? Yeah it it it was it was it was extremely daunting because we knew that we wanted to try to get into Sundance so we had to deadline we had a very we had a very intense deadline and we shot it like a documentary so we basically had this archive of footage and we we worked every single day and worked on the weekends and just like chopped away at it and kept chasing new things and it was I've never given myself so intensely to something and like not I didn't see anyone else in my life like I just was with this movie and it was a really like beautiful and fulfilling chapter.

[22:40] Molly Gordon: It was I was we were so inside of it and and when we sent the cut for Sundance, I we Nick and I like burst into tears. Even if we didn't get in, it was like we we did it. Like it just felt so impossible sometimes.

[22:54] Gordon Cox: And so let's talk about Sundance because it uh from an outsider's perspective, it feels like the thing that everybody dreams happens to them in Sundance. Like you go with your scrappy indie film, and then the room falls in love with it, and then 10 minutes later you've got a, you know, fancy distribution deal to um to be go to theaters, uh movie theaters around the country. Is that what it feels like? What was that experience like for you?

[23:25] Molly Gordon: You know, before our movie played, it was a very my stomach was having a lot of issues. I uh it was the most anxious I think I've ever been in my life. And also Nick and I had been working every day, so we were so tired and like punchy by the time we got there. Um, and yeah, when it when it resonated for people and when the kids performed, I I it was just like it was such a beautiful moment. And I to be the fact that we got bought in a time where it's just so difficult, it I just feel so grateful. And the fact I thought we were gonna have to like beg a distributor to put it in theaters, and the fact that that was always on the table was such a pinch me thing. But no, it's like that that's me and Nick and Ben and Noah and some of the cast stayed up until five in the morning waiting to hear if we had gotten sold, and it was just su you know, we were like eating pizza. It felt like we were at camp. It was this crazy beautiful thing.

[24:34] Molly Gordon: I think that collective laughter is the most incredible thing in the world, and it's why I wanted to be a performer. I remember seeing Anchorman when I was way too young. My parents brought me, and literally like falling out of my seat. I was laughing so hard, and everyone in the theater, it was packed with just howling. And it was just like joy. It was, it was life. It was amazing. It was electric. And I just think movies, specifically comedies, need to be seen in a room of people. And I our movie is about the joy of live performing. It just it just had to be. So to actually get that to happen.

[25:17] Molly Gordon: Yeah. And so the movie is coming out very soon as this episode is coming out. It will be coming out just uh later in the week. Um what is next on your plate now?

[25:28] Molly Gordon: You know, I I I have a script that I wrote and or and a show, and and I hope to get more acting work. If anyone will hire me, I I would love that. Um, but I also we're at such a standstill in our business. And for now, I just hope that everyone gets, you know, paid what they deserve and and that, you know, people get treated well. That's all I all I hope. And um, but I just want another chance to go up to bat. I I that's all I want. It's just hard to get that again.

[26:02] Gordon Cox: Did you know all along that you wanted not only to perform but also write and direct?

[26:09] Molly Gordon: I always wanted to direct. I I, you know, I just it owe it didn't always feel like something I could be open about. I think it's just it's sometimes hard to take up space as a woman and and feel like people can take you seriously in that way. And I also think I was just like nervous um to yeah, take myself seriously in that way. And also, as I was saying before, you just have to be brave enough to try to just make something and and that it might not be good. And and honestly, doing Shiva Baby a couple years ago and watching Emma Seligman, who's my age just be brave enough to do it on her own was so inspiring to me. And and her and I are extremely close. And I I feel really grateful for that experience at that time in my life. I was like just ready to really sit with it, and then I had that experience.

[27:07] Gordon Cox: And you've obviously had many formative experiences on stage, and you've you've also worked on stage a few years back. You were off Broadway in uh the musical Alice by Heart. Is theater something that you are interested in keeping a connection to as now you're continuing continuing to explore your work in in screen on screen?

[27:29] Molly Gordon: Totally. I would love to do another player musical. Um and I I love watching theater. I just saw Jodie Comer and was absolutely floored. Um it's like getting to see something like that is like getting like electrolytes. Like I just felt so like I mean it's obviously such an intense piece, but so alive watching it. And I think only live theater can do that.

[27:56] Gordon Cox: And I know that uh the strike and or impending strike uh kind of puts a puts a damper on kind of some opening celebrations, but how do you plan to celebrate the opening night of Theater Camp?

[28:09] Molly Gordon: I'm gonna sneak into my local theater and um watch people, uh hopefully people will be there and I will watch people watch the movie. Um and yeah, try to take in this moment because you know, so many people came together to make this movie happen and celebrate with our crew and our cast and in even small ways that we can um and yeah, and I'm also just so excited that it's it's such a showcase of so many people's work. Like filmmaking is such a collective sport and so many people were making their debuts with our movie, and I'm like so excited to see what they end up doing. So it's it's a it's a cool moment.

[28:51] Gordon Cox: What ended up on the cutting room floor that you really wish you could have gotten in there?

[28:59] Molly Gordon: Oh god, so much. We're we're editing our deleted scenes right now, and it's like I'm so happy to be doing it again because I'm like, oh my god, this stuff is amazing. Jimmy Tatrow, who plays Troy and Ben Platt and I have a um a really ridiculous back and forth um that will hopefully come out in the deleted scenes. But um, but I yeah, he Jimmy has some unbelievable riffs that uh made no sense for the story, uh, but are some of my favorite jokes, and we could do like a a mini-series just of him riffing.

[29:39] Gordon Cox: Is this if you were going to would you be interested in making another film in this kind of improvisatory way? Is this a is this a style of working that you enjoy?

[29:51] Molly Gordon: Yeah, I mean, I I would love to make uh another comedy that's improvised or a drama. I I love um just those like fresh, alive moments that could only happen once. I'd so I mean it's like live theater. I love getting to live in that. Um I hope I have more than 19 days, maybe 20, 20 days next time would be great.

[30:19] Gordon Cox: That was Molly Gordon, the co-creator and co-star of Theater Camp. Coming to theaters July 14th. You can also see her in the second season of The Bear, now streaming on Hulu. If you enjoyed this conversation and others you've heard here on Stagecraft, I'd be genuinely grateful if you took the time to rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps. Or tell a friend about Stagecraft. Find past episodes and subscribe at all the places you get your pods, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on the Broadway Podcast Network, which is a great place to find more theater for your ears. Until next episode, find me on Twitter at G Cox Variety. Thanks for listening and see you at the theater.