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[0:06] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast, taking you backstage and behind the scenes with the hottest shows on Broadway, off Broadway, and beyond.

[0:14] Gordon Cox: I'm your host, Gordon Cox.

[0:17] Gordon Cox: On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to Celia Keenan-Bolger and Gideon Glick. Broadway watchers will know those two names.

[0:24] Gordon Cox: Keenan-Bolger's breakout came in her Tony-nominated turn in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, and she's since been nominated for Tonys for The Glass Menagerie and Peter and the Starcatcher.

[0:35] Gordon Cox: Glick, meanwhile, got his start in the original cast of Spring Awakening, and has since appeared on Broadway in Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark, and in the lead role of the fan-favorite comedy, Significant Other.

[0:45] Gordon Cox: Now both he and Keenan-Bolger are among the stars of Aaron Sorkin's new stage adaptation of To Kill a Mockingbird, with Keenan-Bolger as Scout and Glick as her pal Dill. They play two of the most important roles in the show alongside Jeff Daniels as Atticus Finch, and they both face a unique acting challenge.

[1:02] Gordon Cox: They're two adult actors playing characters who were children. They're in the studio with me to talk about how they do it. Hi Celia and Gideon, thanks for joining me.

[1:10] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Hi.

[1:10] Gideon Glick: Hi.

[1:11] Gordon Cox: So To Kill a Mockingbird is a great big hit. People are really coming to the show. What do you feel like makes this story so popular still?

[1:21] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Oh my god. Well, it's such an—I mean, it's meant so much to the nation for so long. And so I think it's become this enduring thing that we keep coming back to. And that I think because so many of us encountered it at a young age, and it had—it was like this moment in our young adult lives of our relationship to literature and our relationship to racial politics, that it holds this place that we're interested in revisiting.

[1:56] Gordon Cox: Did that feel like pressure at all as you were putting this show together? You're sort of taking the—you know, going in and kind of creating a new version of this thing that people have such clear memories of, right or wrong. You know, like I'm sure most of my memories of reading that book are wrong at this point, right?

[2:11] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[2:11] Celia Keenan-Bolger: So, and yes, uh, the answer is definitely yes. So much pressure.

[2:15] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[2:16] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And I think also as actors, uh, portraying certain roles, a lot of people have such strong ideas about what they are and what it means, especially because of the movie as well.

[2:29] Gideon Glick: Right.

[2:29] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right. And that trying to—we—there were like a lot of conversations in rehearsal about it being a new play. Like Aaron would say that a lot. He was like, "We're not trying to prove it." There's an up-and-coming wonderful young person. Um, but he, I think felt like for himself, because he had written this initial draft that was sort of the book on stage, and then he was like, "I really have to blow it up for myself," that it was important in the rehearsal room for him to say, like, "This is a new play." So like to remind you guys, basically. And that it was important and challenging to know like when do we advocate for what we cared about in the book, and when do we give over to the fact that this is a new production? And that was like—that was a process.

[3:20] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[3:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And what's nice is that we had so—we—it was a long process because we developed it for a year, right? Coming into it. And so I think we all—well, it's nice dramaturgically, we all had such strong ideas, and I think it actually really helped the show come together. And then I think in a good way, the harder you and longer you work on something, the less you start to obsess about expectations, and the more you start to obsess about the work.

[3:48] Gideon Glick: Right.

[3:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: To see it as itself as opposed to the thing you thought it was gonna be.

[3:53] Gordon Cox: Tell us a little bit about how you first got involved. You got a call, and from what I understand, at least one of you didn't think you were gonna be at the stage when you got the call. It didn't seem like it was something you were gonna be involved in because of the way for a while they were gonna go with kids, right?

[4:06] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yes. Um, tell us a little bit about that.

[4:08] Gideon Glick: It was basic, you know, I got an email from my agent that was like, "I have a kind of weird request. As you know, they're doing To Kill a Mockingbird. Would—and how long ago was this?"

[4:18] Celia Keenan-Bolger: This was in November of twenty eighteen.

[4:24] Gideon Glick: No, seventeen, twenty seventeen.

[4:26] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yes.

[4:27] Gideon Glick: Yeah. So, or like October of 2017. And she was like, "You know, Aaron Sorkin has written the first draft. They're gonna do like a one-day reading of it, but he really needs to learn about the play. And they don't feel like they can learn about the play from an eight-year-old or like an eight-year-old and two ten-year-olds."

[4:48] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right.

[4:49] Gideon Glick: So would you be willing to just come in and read the role for the day?

[4:53] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right. And I—to me, I was like, this is the greatest job opportunity ever because the stakes are so low, but the room is so powerful. It's a role I have always wanted to play.

[5:06] Gideon Glick: Oh, is that true?

[5:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yes. Like as a kid growing up, I would use—like I cut a splice from the book of the Mr. Cunningham monologue and would do it at Detroit Community Theater auditions. So, like this is a character that I feel incredible.

[5:21] Gideon Glick: Yeah, close.

[5:23] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Excellent. And I remember when they announced that it was happening, I was like, "What lucky little girl's life is about to change? Like who's the next Sydney Lucas?"

[5:32] Gideon Glick: Right.

[5:34] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right, right.

[5:35] Gideon Glick: Um, and so we went in and you know, did the read. And Gideon, were you part of that reading as well?

[5:40] Gideon Glick: No, I came on a couple months later. In December, they did another one.

[5:44] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And you and Will had already been cast.

[5:48] Gideon Glick: I was Will Pull in your co-star.

[5:50] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Will Pull plays Jimmy in that first.

[5:52] Gideon Glick: In the first one.

[5:53] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah. And I was very confused about the offer.

[5:56] Gideon Glick: To just—and it wasn't—it was it the same offer, like we just need some adults for now?

[5:59] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I think everyone was—even my agent was confused. They're like, "They're not sure yet." But then when I talked to Celia, she was like, "No, we're signed up." And I was like, "Oh, oh, oh, okay."

[6:09] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um, that had changed by that point.

[6:11] Gideon Glick: You'd signed up by—

[6:11] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, they—so then like I—it ended up being a two-day reading.

[6:15] Gideon Glick: Right.

[6:16] Celia Keenan-Bolger: At the end of the first day, Bart, the director, he was like, "So it turns out like we're kind of thinking maybe this could work." And you know, in the novel and in the movie, the adult Scout's voice is very present and that we could, you know, theatrically sort of make this a memory play. And of course, I was like, "Well, please don't tell me that because all of the fun that I had today is gone, gone, gone tomorrow because suddenly the stakes are higher."

[6:42] Gideon Glick: Right.

[6:42] Celia Keenan-Bolger: But we did it. And was this first draft the very faithful to the book version?

[6:47] Gideon Glick: No.

[6:48] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Okay, it was a good one.

[6:49] Gideon Glick: This was Aaron Sorkin trying to—yes, to blow it up.

[6:52] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right.

[6:52] Gideon Glick: Yes.

[6:53] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And it was really, really good.

[6:56] Gordon Cox: And how—so once you had to wrap your mind around the fact that you were gonna play some kids, how do you do that? What's—what is the—first of all, what came naturally to you about it when you found yourself doing it that first time?

[7:10] Gideon Glick: Well, I find we—it was a cold read. I mean, for me, it was a cold read.

[7:13] Celia Keenan-Bolger: For you, it was a cold read as well.

[7:15] Gideon Glick: Okay, scripts, yeah.

[7:15] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, I mean we had to cold read Aaron Sorkin in a southern dialect in front of Scott Rudin, Bart, and Aaron Sorkin.

[7:24] Gideon Glick: Awesome.

[7:24] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Which is—I think—did you have fun?

[7:28] Gideon Glick: You said it was fun.

[7:29] Celia Keenan-Bolger: No, I had no—it wasn't. You were just—but you know what? I did feel strongly. I was like, "Good luck to the eight-year-old," because this 40-year-old could barely—I was like the sentences have to like say it in my head three times and then I can read it because it was complex. There were like a lot of turns that it took, and then I was like, "It's gonna take crazy skill for kids to do this."

[7:53] Gideon Glick: I do think there is something—and I don't want to speak for you—except that because Gideon's so good in the play, that there is something like the soul of these characters somehow lives in both of us.

[8:06] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, I would agree. And I think also in conception, um, it's more about soul, spirit. I mean, these are kind of, you know, silly terms, but I think there's a lot of merit to it and that it's not about being a child; it's about the spirit or soul of the child. And I would say we are very—we have youthful spirits, and so we can lend ourselves to that. And I would say even Capote in his—when Capote is in his later years, he's still very youthful, right? So you can connect all of those.

[8:42] Gideon Glick: Right.

[8:42] Celia Keenan-Bolger: You should explain—sorry, characters connect to Capote actually, yes.

[8:47] Gideon Glick: So Harper Lee is—um, Scout Finch is Harper Lee, and Dill Harris is Truman Capote. They grew up next door to each other, if you can believe it, in Monroeville, Alabama, which is where Maycomb County—that is the fictional Maycomb County, or that's the real Maycomb County. Um, and they actually promised each other that they would put each other in their first books, which is wild. So Dill is Capote, and Joel Knox, who's in Other Voices, Other Rooms, which is a book that Capote published in 1948, is Harper Lee.

[9:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Did you do a lot of Capote research for that?

[9:22] Gideon Glick: Yes.

[9:22] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yes, yes, that was really fun.

[9:24] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[9:26] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I—his life and his writing. I mean, he is truly an extraordinary person. And so what was interesting about this experience was that you had so much to call from. You had To Kill a Mockingbird, you had the movie, you had Harper Lee and her life, you had Capote and his life, and then you had all of his writing.

[9:48] Gideon Glick: Um, so I would say Joel Knox, the protagonist of Other Voices, Other Rooms, actually is a very big inspiration for this version of Dill.

[9:56] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Okay.

[9:57] Gideon Glick: Also just adding to the expectations component of it. Like I think we also felt it wasn't just about bringing the characters that are so beloved in so many people's minds, either from the movie or from the book to the stage, but it was also about really honoring Harper Lee and Truman Capote, like the reason.

[10:21] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And you know, she's a lot harder to find things out about. There's an amazing biography about her coming out in the summer that I am like waiting with bated breath for.

[10:32] Gideon Glick: But we both went down to Monroeville. We both tried to, you know, read all of the biographies and anything that we could get our hands on, but you said this recently, like the face of American literature was changed by these two people.

[10:47] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I really think like their contribution is so enormous. And so if you have the opportunity to put those again, if we're going to get into the cheesy language of like souls, but if you're gonna try to honor that soul on stage, it's like you really want to do the work to find out as much as you can so that at least a tiny thread of them is infused into what ends up in the final production.

[11:11] Gideon Glick: And can you, one of the things I ended up being curious about, and you started to talk a little bit about this when I saw the play, is how you came to—it's not like you've got all the mannerisms of a child, right? Which is what you were saying, like, but you—there, as you say, there's also youthful spirit to it. So it's like conjuring childhood without, like, I don't know, picking your nose on stage or something, right? Like it's a fine line. Was that—I imagine that was a sort of long process over rehearsal. Is that how that—how did you come to that kind of what you arrived at, discussed how to embody the children?

[11:43] Celia Keenan-Bolger: It was more of a—like we were very curious as to when they were older versus younger, which in the—when you're speaking to a—in the beginning, which was important, and that sort of disappeared as well. Um, but we never really talked about the actual embodiment. I think there was something natural that happened with our pitch and with our body language when we were inhabiting the characters. And I remember we would ask a lot of questions of like what—because also there was this great interview with Harper Lee where she talked about what she and Capote, but everybody in the neighborhood, like how they passed the day, and what it was like to have nothing, like to live in this little tiny town. And that we would say, like, what do kids do?

Like, how do they entertain themselves? And that ended up informing a lot of the sort of physical life of the play. I think that and we had bad ideas. I—or I had really bad ideas. And then some of them that we were like, oh, that actually is a—you know, that like fits in to what we're trying to build. But it came more from those kinds of questions instead of like what's a gesture or what's a kid-like gesture to do here.

[12:58] Gideon Glick: Exactly. Right. As well put. Thanks, Eddie. And what, as you've sort of played the story over, you know, eight times a week to audiences and seen how it lands, how do you feel like—and how did—this is a question for you personally as well—how do you feel like the story lands now? It's 60 years after Harper Lee wrote it. Like, what resonates particularly now with us in 2019?

[13:25] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I think in a beautiful way, what Aaron's script has done is that there are no—there's nothing new really in the play, but there are themes that he's chosen to really draw out. And I think—and question a little bit, yes, which I think is very interesting with this adaptation. But that this processing of—to me, the processing of racial injustice when we have all of the facts, including body cameras, including witnesses, including the modern-day aspects of this, and then a jury that has all of the facts in 1934, and that we can still end up with the wrong—with the same results. Yes, that feels pretty relevant and purposefully relevant.

[14:17] Gideon Glick: And I think—do you—I don't want to hijack this question.

[14:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: No, you're doing a wonderful job. But then I also think the space—what it—that isn't about one specific theme, but I think right now we as a society feel so in some ways sort of helpless and at sea and that we don't have a place to process these big questions about our country and what decency and facts and racial justice looks like, that to do this play for 1400 people is like an incredibly moving experience because everybody's getting to be with one another and ask these questions together, even though they might—what recedes or comes forth is very different for different people. But people are having, I think, a pretty intense experience.

[15:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I also find what's interesting is that the—you know, the book is written in the 60s looking back in the 30s, and so now we're 2019 looking back at the 60s, looking back in the 30s. But the book also in itself is an older Scout looking back. So there's something very—it's about self-examination. And so it's—in the literary sense, but then also as a nation because this is a book that is taught. Right. And that I—I don't always advocate for adults playing kids, but I think there is something very interesting about having adults look back on this story and say, is this what I remember about it? Is this the book that we read in school? And in that way, the adults, us, Gideon and I, the actors, become a sort of conduit for the audience, that we're all processing these questions together.

[16:01] Gideon Glick: And so do you have a different take on the story now than you did when you were first exposed to it as kids?

[16:06] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, I mean, I think we're so fully immersed. For me, it was actually—the book was less about—I mean, the themes obviously were very important, but for me it was actually how I learned how to be a critical reader. And so it taught me how to—because I read it in the seventh grade, and it was about, oh, these are themes, this is metaphor, simile, this is how to—this is what to look for. Um, so it taught me to be a thinker. I think in an interesting way because I read it in a class where I think I was one of probably four white kids, that the themes that I think Aaron has sort of seized upon, particularly in terms of Tom and Calpurnia, that my classmates were sort of like, yeah, but what else?

Like, what else do they have to say about this whole situation? Not these are the African-American characters. Yeah, right. And that—and my classmates who are also African-American. And that I think in some ways our play is even more critical than they were, but that it did start that conversation that because I, you know, worshipped Atticus Finch and thought to, you know, from my whole childhood that he was the quintessential figure of justice and good parenting.

[17:24] Gideon Glick: Right.

[17:24] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And now I think in the play, I have, you know, a more complex view of who he was and what he was trying to do.

[17:31] Gideon Glick: Right.

[17:31] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And the play seems to have one as well.

[17:32] Gideon Glick: I think so, yeah.

[17:33] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Let's talk a little bit about sort of how you guys got to where you are. Um, what do you think of as your sort of most formative projects? Sort of as either as artists or as professionals, just sort of getting to where you are. Celia.

[17:49] Gideon Glick: Oh my gosh. I'm gonna point to you first.

[17:51] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I think, you know, what was—what I have thought about a lot on this process was Peter and the Star Catcher, which is completely different.

[17:58] Gideon Glick: How old was your character in Peter and the Star Catcher?

[18:00] Celia Keenan-Bolger: She was like 14.

[18:01] Gideon Glick: Yeah, okay. I'm just going backwards sometimes. I can't wait to see you play a three-year-old.

[18:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I was gonna say, or like an infant.

[18:09] Gideon Glick: Straight up baby.

[18:10] Celia Keenan-Bolger: The Ferryman, like looking to request because I'm available when this contract is done. Um, but there was something about watching Christian Borle in that room bring so many ideas to the table that I felt like I want someday to be like that. I want to have as many—I want to be as brave as he is and as fearless about just putting things out there and trying new things and watching him fail like a lot and be unfazed by it, or at least seemingly unfazed by it. And that I have held that with me for a very long time. And I feel like this is the first time—and it probably has to do with the fact that I felt very confident with Bart, and that because we have had a relationship in the past that I wasn't trying to be like, I'm easy, I'm not difficult, I'm not trying to like insert myself into your process, that I felt a little more emboldened. So I would say for this project that certainly Peter and the Star Catcher was one of them.

[19:16] Gideon Glick: Yeah, interesting. What about for you, Gideon?

[19:18] Gideon Glick: Well, I hope this doesn't feel like a cop-out, but I—because I didn't train, it's hard. I—I've been learning on the job, so everything kind of feels like it's informing the next thing. And I'm sure we all feel that way as artists, but it's hard to pinpoint what was most formative because I feel like the more I do it, the depth is larger, but also the harder it gets as well. Um, so it's hard to pinpoint one thing that was most formative.

[19:51] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right.

[19:52] Gideon Glick: What do you consider—what have you considered sort of your biggest obstacle, sort of on your road to being where you are? Like, what is there one thing in particular that felt like a particular challenge that I say myself?

[20:06] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Oh yeah?

[20:07] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[20:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Can you say more?

[20:09] Gideon Glick: Yeah, I mean, I think—I always imagine going out on stage as a kind of a—like a man who's on the precipice, or a woman. And, um, and like he—he needs to—he or she needs to take the leap. Um, and I would say the only person that kind of interferes with that is yourself. I mean, in antiquity it was called ecstasy, which is to leave the body, and that was kind of the greatest form of feeling, and it was used in the theater, and I kind of think that's what that is. And I know that when I come off stage, when I feel the best is when I'm not in my head, and then I've taken that leap. Um, and that for me, I guess, because I—again, I didn't train, that's how I know I did a good job.

[20:54] Celia Keenan-Bolger: You came—you came to acting entirely through just as an amateur, you found—you found it in school. Is that how I—

[20:59] Gideon Glick: I sort of—well, I started doing professional theater at like 11.

[21:03] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah.

[21:03] Gideon Glick: You started pretty young too, didn't you?

[21:05] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, you did too.

[21:06] Gideon Glick: Not as professional, but yes, I've been doing it forever.

[21:09] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right.

[21:20] Gordon Cox: Um how do you both think of film and TV fitting into what you do? Like is that a thing you enjoy doing? Do you want to do more of it or less of it? Like, how do you think of your career in terms of you you are known quite a lot for your theater work? Do you uh is that how you have wanted it? Is that is theater like the place where you feel most at home? Or just tell tell me about how you think of kind of as you look ahead, what sort of you'd like to do and continue to do.

[21:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: That is a multifaceted question for me. Because I think in my bones I love the theater so much. I love the collaboration. You know, they say like theater is an actor's medium, and I think it's not wrong that you really get to thrive in a way that other mediums you don't. But I think there is also a part of my brain that has been doing theater for so long that's like it would be nice to like exercise different techniques, and even though I you know, I think it's all of a certain thread of acting, there are definitely ways in which you know, camera technique is different than stage technique that I'm really interested in. And I think from like a sort of practical standpoint, there's gonna come a time when I can't get jobs in the theater because people who are famous who have been on television or in movies are gonna get those jobs. And so that's a real motivator because I won't sell tickets if I just continue to be great in the theater. It just doesn't matter.

[22:54] Gideon Glick: Yeah, I have a similar the concept for me is to want to do film and television is so that I could become an entity enough to do theater forever.

[23:04] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, same.

[23:05] Gideon Glick: Same.

[23:06] Gordon Cox: All right. And what do you would haven't you been given the opportunity to do yet as actors that you would like to do?

[23:22] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I would say it for me, it goes to the first thing I was gonna say is like I would just like to keep playing different kinds of people that I think both of us have been getting a lot of questions recently of like, like for me, like why do you keep playing kids? And I'm like, hey, yo, I would love to. That was an accident, right?

[23:44] Gideon Glick: Yeah, right.

[23:45] Celia Keenan-Bolger: To um for that not to be the case. But I think when this business finds that you're good at something, it's you know, and so certainly I think I would like to play sort of uglier, worse people than you know what I've gotten to do in the past, like really bad or mean or uh terrible people.

[24:05] Gideon Glick: Yeah, I want to play a villain very badly.

[24:07] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, yeah, very badly. I think also both of us, I'm gonna venture to say this, that we are um easy to get along with and are well liked generally. So the idea of playing someone terrible is not particularly challenged, like doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, but then people might not like me. But I'm like, I'm really not worried about that at all.

[24:26] Gideon Glick: Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And also that's such a silly I I actors who do worry about that, and just like cut it out.

[24:32] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Are there are there actors who are worried about that?

[24:33] Gideon Glick: 100%.

[24:34] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Being like by people they work with?

[24:36] Gideon Glick: No, I think by an audience because the audience won't like them anymore. That idea that they're even it that it all it has to be beautiful. You have to look beautiful, you have to sound beautiful, like that that's, you know, I think if you're more attractive than I am, you maybe that's something that you will carry around.

[24:55] Celia Keenan-Bolger: I just say that in a way needs to respond to that.

[24:58] Gideon Glick: But um I'm just gonna respond with shudd.

[25:02] Celia Keenan-Bolger: But then that's not something that you know I worry about.

[25:08] Gideon Glick: I was just also no, that's the end of that.

[25:11] Gordon Cox: All right. Yeah. If you want to add it, just let me know. What do you know now that you wish you'd known when you were first starting out?

[25:20] Gideon Glick: I know this one.

[25:22] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Go, get in, go.

[25:23] Gideon Glick: It'll change, but um I think to take stock in what you have. I I it's uh again, this is an ongoing process. The grass is always greener, etc. etc. I think right now, for instance, we are in a play that um where uh people care about each other backstage, people seem to care about it off stage, um, it's doing very well. It's um very easy to to see life in deficit and think, oh what what how could this be better? Or or what am I lacking? And I uh I think uh, you know, I I I'll say for my my experience when when I did Spring Awakening, I was very I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. I um I didn't really understand what was going on, it became too big, and I just wasn't I wasn't interested in it anymore. Um and and granted, I was younger, but I I I think I also but I also thought, oh, this will happen again.

[26:22] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Of course like that.

[26:22] Gideon Glick: Like that my idea was of course it would be this big and the successful, and and it's always gonna be this way. And just to kind of take stock in in that. But I think what what is so incredible with this production is that backstage it's so extraordinary too. And so that doesn't come around often. So it's to just relish what you have.

[26:44] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Mine is like almost the opposite, even though I think it's and which is that the only thing I can be sure of is that it's going to change.

[26:53] Gideon Glick: But they're not, they're they're all the same piece of the past.

[26:55] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, because you know it's not gonna last.

[26:56] Gideon Glick: Yes, and that that I think early on there was some despair about I mean, I feel like my whole relationship with Bart Shearer, that it was like this project that I thought I was coming in with that then was like taken away, and that I was like, how will I ever recover from this? And that like you can't tell yourself, like, well, don't worry, in 15 years you're gonna be in a huge hit that he directed.

[27:19] Celia Keenan-Bolger: And that next year What was the project by the way for people?

[27:23] Gideon Glick: I would did all of the original um productions of that, and then when it came to Broadway, I was um let go.

[27:29] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Not in it, correct.

[27:30] Gideon Glick: Um and that that was like a really obviously, but it was like a really intense and and horrible early career moment. And then now I think it's easy sometimes when you're in a huge hit, to feel like I think my life is gonna change. Like I think now my place in our industry is like really different. And I'm gonna tell you what, it's not. I mean, it might be a little bit, but like never, I think, in the way that one hopes when you're inside of something that is going really well, that it's like at some point I'm still gonna have to audition again. I'm still gonna have to be in some stinky production or television show so that I can like get my health insurance and pay my bills. That you know, it's always it's constantly changing.

[28:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right, right. I think we are actually saying the same thing on three different sides of the how we work.

[28:28] Gordon Cox: So you guys are in Mockingbird for a while longer, yeah.

[28:31] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah.

[28:32] Gideon Glick: Um do you have anything else on your plate that we should know about?

[28:35] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um I oh I'm in a Noah Baumbach film. Um so that'll come out. I don't know when that'll come out. I have a very small part in it, but he there's a actually I don't know how much I can say. But I'm in it.

[28:48] Gideon Glick: You're you're in a Noah Baumbach.

[28:50] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, yeah. And I'm in a really amazing movie starring Mary Kay Place.

[28:55] Gideon Glick: Oh yeah called Diane that has like some of the greatest um older actresses of our time in it.

[29:03] Celia Keenan-Bolger: So it's I really recommend it. It's coming out at the end of March.

[29:07] Gordon Cox: Oh, okay, great. Um you're pitching your dream project to a producer. Go. What is it?

[29:12] Gideon Glick: Am I what well stage? Let's say stage. But am I in it?

[29:17] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Uh oh yeah, you're in it.

[29:19] Gideon Glick: Okay. It's your dream role.

[29:20] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Oh my god, oh my god.

[29:22] Gideon Glick: You have to go because it's on your tongue and it's a big thing.

[29:24] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Directed by the director.

[29:28] Gideon Glick: It's written by Amy Herzog.

[29:30] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Oh, we talked about that the other day.

[29:32] Gideon Glick: We did, and that's been like in my craw. And it's with Steven McKinley Henderson, Gideon Glick, Dee Dee O'Connell.

[29:44] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um is it a musical? Because now we're just sharing this.

[29:46] Gideon Glick: Sorry, yeah, we're sharing the stream.

[29:50] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah, there's music in it, but um, it's not a musical.

[29:52] Gideon Glick: Well, you should. Like it's a play with musical.

[29:54] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Okay.

[29:54] Gideon Glick: Yeah.

[29:54] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Right. And maybe we don't have to even sing with an orchestra.

[29:58] Gideon Glick: So you don't have to be dependent on any form of rhythm or pitch.

[30:02] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um, who's directing it?

[30:04] Gideon Glick: Um we are great.

[30:08] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Maybe Sam Gold.

[30:10] Gideon Glick: Have Sam and Amy ever worked together?

[30:12] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um, not that I can think of.

[30:14] Gideon Glick: So maybe we don't want to do that. Maybe they they maybe they know themselves better than we know them.

[30:19] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Um, but it's like one of those things where I feel like it's these days, I'm like, who is in the room? Like who is making the art that I want to be closer to? And especially as I'm getting older, like who are the actors that I see over and over again that I'm like more of that person. I want more of that.

[30:39] Gideon Glick: Is there anybody else we forgot?

[30:41] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Trying to think of other cast members.

[30:44] Gideon Glick: But none none none are coming to mind right now.

[30:46] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Small cast for now.

[30:47] Gideon Glick: It could be there could be an ensemble.

[30:49] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Yeah. Well, we look forward to seeing what's next. Whatever it is. Come to our show. We're co-conceiving it right now.

[30:56] Gordon Cox: So thank you guys.

[30:58] Celia Keenan-Bolger: Thanks for buying here.

[31:00] Gideon Glick: Thank you.

[31:07] Gordon Cox: That was Celia Keenan-Bolger and Gideon Glick, now starring on Broadway in To Kill a Mockingbird. If you like what you've heard on this and other episodes of Stagecraft, don't forget to rate and review us on iTunes and subscribe wherever finer podcasts are dispensed. And here's a little news for fans of podcasts. I'll be in Nashville from May 31st through June 2nd for the first Pod X conference, bringing together your favorite networks, podcasters, and podcasts. From true crime and politics to pop culture and storytelling to, of course, theater and stagecraft. All in one weekend. For more info, go to PodX.com. And until next week, see you at the theater.