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[0:07] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast, bringing you backstage and behind the scenes with the stars, creators, and business leaders bringing Broadway's and the theater industry back to life.

[0:18] Gordon Cox: I'm your host, Gordon Cox.

[0:20] Gordon Cox: On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to two of the folks behind the Theater Leadership Project. The new nonprofit initiative will train, mentor, and place early career Black producers, general managers, company managers, and stage managers in the commercial theater industry via multi-year fellowships and partnerships with Black-led theater organizations.

[0:40] Gordon Cox: Founded by Broadway's producers and working with an advisory council that includes Whoopi Goldberg, the Theater Leadership Project officially launches later this year.

[0:49] Gordon Cox: And in this episode, I'll be talking to Travis Lamont Bellinger, a producer who is one of the founding members of the project, and to Leah Harris, the program manager for the new nonprofit. Both Harris and Bellinger are in the virtual studio with me to talk us through all the ways the Theater Leadership Project hopes to help change an industry where Black professionals remain severely underrepresented.

[1:10] Gordon Cox: Hi Leah and Travis, thanks for joining me.

[1:12] Leah Harris: Hi, thanks for having us.

[1:45] Travis Lamont Bellinger: After college, that I wanted to be a producer. That was very real to me. How to get there, I didn't necessarily know. So I did some, you know, I did this pretty big internship and fellowship at Arena Stage and have worked at a bunch of different places. I really just took any associate producer or producer, anything with producer in the title, I would take that job. Um, because there is no pathway, there's no route. Uh and so um eventually I continued working up and I was at the Old Globe as the associate artistic director, uh, and Leah Volik asked me to join her to start her company, Leah Volick Productions. And so I went off to do that. And one of the first things that Leah talked to me about was uh TTLP, the Theater Leadership Project.

Uh that started in June in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Um, and uh when so many industries were grappling with how do we contribute to uh you know racist uh um racist structures, uh anti-Black racist structures. Uh the theater industry was also thinking through this. Leah and Barbara uh Broccoli had this idea of creating TTLP, and that's how I've come to it is because I work for Leah and so I'm working on it.

[3:13] Gordon Cox: Right, yeah. And then Leah, different Leah. Um uh tell us about your background and how uh you came to the project.

[3:21] Leah Harris: Yeah, so I have mainly worked regionally. Um, ever since I got out of college, I've been fortunate enough to just be working full time regionally. I worked at Dallas Theater Center for um just about four years, and that's where I met Travis actually. And then I was at Milwaukee Repertory Theater, and all of my work there has really centered across community engagement, education, programming, and regional theater, and really getting theaters to think about how they're in conversation with their communities that they serve. Um, and uh so that's really been the basis of my work, and through that I've also gotten to do artistic producing as well at the regional theater. So that's been really great because I've gotten to learn about producing kind of through a community lens, which has been really great.

Um, and how I got to TTLP is I at the height of the pandemic, like so many people lost my job actually. So they cut community engagement at Milwaukee Rep. And so I kind of was in this place of like, okay, what is gonna be my next step? And so I kind of put myself back out there. I was interviewing everywhere, um, and I was kind of just throwing darts all over to figure out where I wanted to be. Am I gonna stay in the Midwest, go back to the South, East Coast, West Coast? Um, and Travis actually texted me and was like, hey, this thing is happening. Um, I'm wondering if you want to have a conversation about it. And it kind of went from there. And I've officially been with TTLP since the beginning of March as the program manager.

So it's been really great because it kind of intersects a lot of my interests, and uh, it's kind of a beautiful culmination of the work I've done thus far in terms of producing and program management and partnerships and thinking about you know how we build a community of support around a group of people within the theater and things like that. So um yeah, so that's how I got to TTLP.

[5:01] Gordon Cox: And so we'll talk a little bit about what uh TTLP is doing and the programs it's offering. But um Travis, you mentioned Leah Volick, who's a Broadway's producer um who recently started her own uh production company uh as you and she are among the founding members of TTLP. And I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about who else are among that group of founders with you and how do you all anticipate being involved uh moving forward with the project.

[5:28] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the other founding members of TTLP include uh Alicia Parker, who is a producer and uh a general manager, um, Patrick Daly, who is also a producer. Patrick and Alicia both consult with Barbara Broccoli, um, who is one of the, who is the other founding member. Barbara Broccoli and Leah Volick came together in the wake of George Floyd's murder and had this idea, and then they brought in Patrick, Alicia, and I to help them create this company.

[6:03] Gordon Cox: Right. Yeah. And then Leah, how will you be involved in the kind of day-to-day workings of this? What does it mean to be the program manager of TTLP? Do you know yet?

[6:14] Leah Harris: I think, yeah, as it says, like I think we're still defining it every day because it's also new, but it is really exciting for me because I think there's a lot of room for growth and creation in this program. And so I think as that continues to grow, my role and influence will continue to evolve with you, which I think is actually really exciting. I kind of love that I have been brought in at the stage that I have been in terms of just um where I'm able to um like Travis said, just kind of like keep everything going, but also it's exciting now that we are announced to be able to have conversations with you know the Broadway's community and just other partners about you know what does it look like to offer this fellowship for three years and to have a community of fellows that are really looking to invest in full-time work on Broadway's and what is that community of support look like?

Um, so yes, we know, you know, um, that we'll be working with our partners in terms of their day-to-day work, but also I'm really interested in again, just the community of support that we can build around these fellows to assure that at the end of this fellowship in three years that this is a life and a community that they want to sustain and continue to be in. So, I mean, right now, you know, my day-to-day is like emails and meetings and you know, setting up things and stuff like that. But also, I think we're getting into some really exciting conversations at TTLP about um, you know, just the how we continue to kind of really build up this program and have offerings outside of you know just doing the work, but how we really get them into this, the Broadway's community at such an important time right now when we're reopening. I think it's really exciting to think about that in that terms as well.

[7:49] Gordon Cox: Leah, you mentioned briefly the partnerships or the partners that uh you will be working with. And I wanted to talk to you both about sort of what those partner organizations are and why it was important uh as you thought about this project to sort of partner with uh those particular organizations and what uh what you were able to do with those partnerships that maybe you wouldn't be able to do alone.

[8:10] Leah Harris: Yeah, I can talk about you know, kind of who our partners are. Um so we are partnered with um the Prince Fellowship that's House of Columbia University, um, and that we're partnered with them on the creative producing track. They have a um pretty long history within the industry of uh producing creative producers. Um, and so they will, our fellows will be part of the first year. Um, their first year will be the Prince Fellowship, and then the second two years will be in partnership with TTLP. They'll be working with us, will be, you know, continuing to develop their ideas. Um but we felt like it was really important to, you know, have a creative producing partner like Prince, who has the infrastructure and kind of the history and influence to really support that individual in that first year and give them some of those foundational tools and understanding of what it what it means to be a creative producer, um, and then give them that those additional two years to continue to develop a TTLP.

Um, and then for general and company management, we partnered with Black Theater Coalition. Um, again, I think it was important for us to think about partnerships that are you know, partners that are already doing the work and already at the forefront of change. And so with BTC, we've developed additional six additional two-year fellowships. So the first two years of the fellowship will be with BTC, partnered with six general management offices working throughout Broadway's, and then that final year again, they'll be with TTLP and we'll be working on um job placement opportunities for them if they want to, you know, obviously continue in the industry. So those are our partners, and you know, part of our mission, you know, is leadership, and we also appreciate stage management in that.

So we're still figuring that offering out, and we're having conversations with stage managers um within the industry about what that offering looks like, and that will be coming out you know, once it's ready. Um, so right now our main partners are um the Prince Fellowship through Columbia and Black Theater Coalition for General and Company Management.

[9:58] Travis Lamont Bellinger: And if I can add, we'll be as Leah was saying, that there are other that TTLP is built to expand and it's built to grow. We've built in growth opportunities within the very fiber of the organization. Um, and so we are in conversations with a number of different partners, including even in uh general and company management and uh producing uh to find other pathways that people may uh come to this work because the work of a producer, for instance, um, you know, a producer on Broadway's is very different than the work of a presenter on the road. Uh, so it so we want to make sure that um we are finding a way to uh uh uh allow people in uh however they see themselves.

[10:49] Gordon Cox: And let's talk a little bit about the specifics of these fellowships, that these sort of multi-year fellowships, and the the main one it seems like you were built around the initial idea is this creative producing fellowship that uh that uh is not like uh anything else that I know of in the industry. Tell me a little bit about kind of how it's gonna work and why it was how the structure evolved to offer things that were not uh readily available uh previously.

[11:16] Leah Harris: I think I could take this one, maybe. Um so at the beginning of the at the creation of TTLP, one of the things that was most important to Barbara and Leah was that uh we are about long-term sustained uh um funding, we're about long-term sustained support. Um so we were never going to create fellowship opportunities or internship opportunities, what have you, that are anything less than a number of years, because it does take that long to really kind of wrap yourself into the community. Um, and so going out to the Prince Fellowship, uh, they have had such a uh a vast history of amazing producers coming through their programs and all and most of their producers, all of their producers have gone off to continue to produce on Broadway's to bring in new work.

And so we wanted to be able to partner with them in order to uh have our producer go through that. But again, we are about multi-year support. Um, so the second year of the Prince Fellowship will be placing the producer, or the second year of the producing fellowship, excuse me, will be placing the producer in another producer's office so they can also have that experience.

[12:36] Travis Lamont Bellinger: And then in the third year, they'll focus on their project that they brought in with them and we'll work with them to find employment opportunities.

[12:47] Leah Harris: Uh, and like Leah was saying with the BTC, as we are about again long-term sustained support, we wanted to make sure that the fellows were gonna have an opportunity to actually kind of sink into a general manager's office.

[13:04] Travis Lamont Bellinger: And BTC came up with the idea of then let's make this two-year fellowships in the general management offices. Let's let us work with the general managers and get their offices in a place where they are ready to receive fellows of color, and then let us have them there for two full years, and then in a third year, we will work with the general managers, with BTC and with the fellows to find employment opportunities.

[13:29] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Because after all of these financial resources and education resources and all of the stuff that we are investing in these fellows, we want to be sure that we keep them in the industry. We want to be sure that we keep them in the commercial theater field. So we're gonna do everything we can at the end of their fellowship to keep them there.

[13:47] Leah Harris: Yeah, it does seem one of the things that can be so challenging about getting into the theater business and staying in the theater business is that for so long it's been sort of built on the idea of unpaid internships, which is, I mean, so many. I imagine you both have had those in the past, but it's a huge barrier to entry, right? And talk us through some of the ways that TTLP is mitigating that.

[14:12] Travis Lamont Bellinger: I mean, one of the things is that this fellowship, this is a fellowship, and you are paid. You know, you don't, you know, you're not, it's not an unpaid fellowship. You have all this opportunity and you are paid for the work you do.

[14:24] Leah Harris: Yeah, you're paid.

[14:25] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Uh, and you're paid real money. I listen, I've done some fellowships in my life, and I don't come from wealth by any stretch of the imagination. Um, and so taking an unpaid fellowship was not in the cards for me.

[14:45] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Luckily my first fellowship at Arena Stage was paid. It wasn't paid very much, but it was paid. Eventually I was also able to get health insurance. That is one thing that we're starting out with the fellows. They will have health insurance. We know from living through this global pandemic that there is nothing more important than ensuring that if you get sick, you can go to a doctor and be taken care of. So we're gonna make sure that they have that.

[15:07] Travis Lamont Bellinger: We also know because of how this country is built, that family wealth is not necessarily something that a lot of Black people come from. So being able to move yourself to New York, being able to cover potential expenses in childcare or student loans or other expenses that you don't even know will come up, a number of people don't have that.

[15:29] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So we've created a little fund that each fellow can draw some money from for those potential expenses. Uh, so yes, you'll be paid, you will have health insurance, and you will have other expenses potentially being able to be met.

[15:54] Gordon Cox: I'll have more with Travis and Leah right after the break.

[16:09] Gordon Cox: And now here's more with Leah Harris and Travis Lamont Bellinger of the Theater Leadership Project. Travis, a little earlier in our conversation, you mentioned you were talking about the general manager's office and getting the general manager's office ready to incorporate a fellow of color.

[16:27] Gordon Cox: And I wanted that leads me into one of my questions for you, which is a lot of the things that people have been talking about in the last year is the racism and inequity that's sort of embedded into the structure of how the theater industry works and how so many have the structure of how so many things work.

[16:43] Gordon Cox: Um, and I just wonder how you at TTLP are thinking about the ways in which you're teaching people the way the business works, and then also teaching them the ways in which or showing them the ways in which it needs to be changed or working to change them as you're bringing in all this new talent.

[17:01] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Yeah, I'll jump in.

[17:03] Leah Harris: And Leah, do you want to add on?

[17:07] Leah Harris: Oh no, I was just gonna say that I think one of the things that we're able to focus on now that we are, you know, kind of post our launch is about this idea of, you know, we're gonna have Black individuals working in predominantly white environments, right? And we need to, we view it as our utmost responsibility to make sure that our fellows are working in safe, healthy, anti-racist environments.

[17:29] Leah Harris: Because again, this is a life and a career that we want them to sustain. Um, and so we're having really intentional conversations about what is it, what are the expectations that we have for our GM offices and our partners in terms of how we treat one another and what are the systems that we're putting in place to make sure that our fellows have a safety net that appreciates their full humanity.

[17:51] Leah Harris: So because so often we just hear about, you know, people of color, Black people being in white environments and having to shrink themselves, not being able to show up fully, not being able to live authentically in that space. And I think one of the things we're doing by saying we're being intentional about booking on Black individuals means that we have to be intentional about the care that we have for them in these spaces.

[18:11] Leah Harris: And you know, we are leaning into those conversations and we're excited about those conversations, and I think our partners are as well, because it really is about making that space hospitable and fair and anti-racist for them to really be able to do their best work because again, we are working so hard, like Travis was saying, on eliminating barriers of just getting to New York, moving into a place, all these other things.

[18:33] Leah Harris: We also have to make sure that when they show up to work, they're able to do so fully. And that is something that we are actively working on right now in conversation with some HR consultants and just people in the field that are really helping us think about that in a way for our fellows this fall.

[18:48] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So, and to your ear, you would ask earlier how the founding members were gonna continue participating, and he didn't actually answer that question. This is how, like there is a lot to do. There is a, we are very happy that Leah has come on. She is the only employee of TTLP, but there's a lot to do because not only are we trying to find the fellows, but then we have to help build the space that they will inhabit.

[19:18] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Also to add, our GM partners and our partners with BTC and Columbia have been excited, like excited to do this work of making sure that their organizations are hospitable spaces for these fellows. It is also to say that the Broadway's League has been doing a lot of work in terms of getting training for the GMs and the GM offices in anti-racism, EDNI.

[19:42] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Um, so there's a lot of work that's happening in changing the culture of spaces.

[19:49] Gordon Cox: Yeah, and I imagine that also intersects with the conversations that are going on right now about, you know, bullying and harassment and sort of the ways people treat each other in Broadway's spaces and the way sometimes it has been tolerated, bad behavior has sort of been tolerated in a way that people have finally decided they will not tolerate anymore. I imagine is that correct? Am I correct in thinking that that's that intersects, yeah?

[20:13] Leah Harris: Yeah, we, I mean we're not going to send a fellow to a space that's not safe for them.

[20:17] Leah Harris: Um, and what safety means is not just physical safety, their emotional, their mental, their spiritual safety. We're not gonna send them into a place that isn't safe for them.

[20:25] Leah Harris: Um, we want to send them into a place into spaces where they can learn and grow and fail and be able to continue learning and growing and failing. Uh, and so, uh, so yes, we're all, everyone has rolled up their sleeves and are doing that work.

[20:42] Leah Harris: It's not the easiest work to do to kind of look at yourselves and say, how can, how, in what ways do we need to change to be more anti-racist? It's not easy work. So I applaud all of our partners for doing it.

[20:54] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[20:55] Gordon Cox: And how for each of you, as you've been in the industry for the years that you have been, how have your experiences informed the way you're approaching this in terms of either the support you got or the support you wish you'd gotten?

[21:12] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Good question.

[21:13] Leah Harris: It's a great question.

[21:14] Travis Lamont Bellinger: I like, you know Leah Volik hired me. It's not that I came from nowhere. My God, I was at the Old Globe, which is one of the largest theaters in the country. But she, I don't have, I did not have Broadway's connections before then.

[21:31] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Something that Leah Harris here and I talk about a lot is that there seems to be this notion that if you are a Black person, if you're a person of color working in the theater field, that like the commercial world is not for you, that you should, that you are forced to go into the not-for-profit arena.

[21:49] Travis Lamont Bellinger: And it's specifically, yes, the pathways to commercial producing are difficult. Um, but so are the pathways to producing in the not-for-profit world. Yes, the rules, they're all kind of shrouded in mystery, but so are the rules for not-for-profit.

[22:05] Travis Lamont Bellinger: The difference is that Black people are basically told from the moment you graduate college that all of the work that you have to do has to be in service. Um, that like somehow in order to get here, you've gotten something. And so now you have to give back.

[22:18] Travis Lamont Bellinger: You can't do work that also has a commercial angle to it. Your work can't play with the market. Your work can't be about making money, that that's not what you do. What you do is serve.

[22:34] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Um, and I think that we are working to also kind of combat that idea and to fight against that. But Leah Volik hired me. She just kind of asked me to do this because she saw something in me and she liked me.

[22:47] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Um, I wish that all producers would do that, would start looking outside of the spaces that they always inhabit for people to work in their offices. But that's not what's happening. Um, and so I, being a young Black producer, I feel like I have to bring a lot of my personal experience into this as we build it because we don't have a bunch of people like Leah Volik who's out just hiring people.

[22:59] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Um, we so we have to build this system that's going to be hospitable. I don't actually know if I answered your question, but I feel like I knocked around it.

[23:24] Gordon Cox: You absolutely did. No, that's perfect.

[23:28] Gordon Cox: Yeah, that's great.

[23:30] Leah Harris: I mean, and I think, I mean what I would say is like I totally agree with everything that Travis has said and I think, you know, for me it's like a lot of the work, I mean all the work that I've done since I've graduated has been in service at a nonprofit, you know, within community engagement education, that world and it has taught me a lot.

[23:30] Leah Harris: And I think right now, you know, what is exciting about this role is that I'm really able to think about all of the things I've learned within regional theater about, you know, partnerships and collaboration and how we, you know, are in mutually beneficial positions with one another, how we're in right relationship with one another to move forward.

[23:30] Leah Harris: Because I think, you know, one thing that I've just learned is like collectively we can move forward together. Um, and I think that, you know, the way that TTLP is doing this through partnerships and how the program is built to really have capacity for multiple partnerships is really, really exciting to me because again, that has been my work.

[23:30] Leah Harris: And so I'm hoping that this is also kind of modeling to the field a way of just a way of, you know, supporting new leadership, supporting more Black people in spaces and really thinking about again just like those pathways to leadership and how they have historically systemically served white people and have kept Black people out and really thinking about how we can ground our partnerships in ways that are equitable and fair that really do promote a society that promotes leadership that looks like the society and country that we live in.

[23:30] Leah Harris: Because I just ultimately think that like we are just at a point now where we just need to have leadership that is just more reflective of our lived experiences and more reflective of the world that we live that we know that we live in. And so I'm excited by all the energy that's happening on Broadway's to kind of do all of that work right now because I think it's long overdue, but I think right now it's a really important time to be thinking about that.

[25:31] Gordon Cox: So again I don't even really know if that answered the question either but absolutely did it absolutely did you actually you also alluded to the fact that neither of you had really had a broad Broadway's credits before this and I would just wonder about working in both of you have worked in multiple regional theaters around the country and I wonder if that gives you if you can sense that that gives you a national perspective that maybe people on Broadway's who because it's it it can be a very closed sort of closed loop there that you are bringing a perspective that kind of influences the way this program evolves do you have any sense of that?

[25:31] Leah Harris: Yeah I absolutely I I mean yeah I'm so sorry that I just the the way that the belief that these producers and managers are not out there, we both know from coming from the regional world that they are out there. They're brilliant, they're brilliant leaders just running around this country who are just with sleeves rolled up doing the work, who would who would bring dynamic change to the commercial world, who would the work that they would produce or the ways that they would manage would change everything. And they have not been afforded those opportunities to they've not been invited in. And in fact, they've been intentionally excluded because that's how systematic racism works. Um, and so I I can speaking for myself, I know that there are just so many people out there.

So the idea that they aren't out there is just not true. What we have to do is invite them in and create a space where they will want to be. Um, because these aren't people who are just sitting around waiting for jobs and just like, oh, whoa is me. These are people who are out there doing the damn thing. So we have to invite them in and create a space that they will actually want to come to and then do everything we can to keep them there because what they are going to do is gonna is is gonna change everything.

[27:33] Travis Lamont Bellinger: And I mean, I think just again, just I mean, I think part of you know us wanting to support this next generation of leadership is having leaders that come from different backgrounds, right? Like having different thought processes and thought partners in leadership and really thinking about what does it mean to be a leader right now and and and and what are the conversations that leaders are having. I just think that like as we're continuing to talk about you know, supporting the next generation of black leaders, all of that stuff, we have to also acknowledge that that means that leadership is gonna start looking and feeling different, that we're gonna start feeling different changes in our community.

And so, like really just being, and and those are all those are all exciting things to celebrate, right? So I think that's also just an important part about when we talk about leadership that like that means that that's going to look different and it's going to feel different and the choices are going to again be more reflective of the world that we live in.

[28:25] Gordon Cox: Let's talk a little bit about the candidates you're looking for. Who are these people? Where do they come from? What's their background? What tell us a little bit about like sort of who you think are the will be the applicants for this program and who you think would be a good fit.

[28:41] Leah Harris: I think I mean you know we've that's definitely something that we've like you know we get asked a lot and we have to think about a lot and I think ultimately you know we want this fellowship to be for anyone who sees themselves in this fellowship right we want to create again going back to creating that space where people want to be in we're not centering education. We're not centering a level of education we're not centering working from nonprofit coming into you know we're not centering these kind of ideas of this is how you've had to do it to get there or just because I you know went the education route you know that's not that's not what we're thinking about. We really are thinking about who is it that sees themselves being in this position, making this commitment for three years and potentially would want to sustain it right and and if you can see yourself doing that and if you can you know make the effort to apply and all of that stuff then we will want to talk to you and we're going to want to create that space for you.

[29:28] Travis Lamont Bellinger: I think what's exciting about this first year and this this idea that you know in a handful of months we'll have an announcement to say these are our fellows is like it the from then on the program will really take shape around those individuals right and I think part of my job will be to make sure that it does and that you know as they continue to grow and evolve in year two and three, it could look like a completely different program because it's reflective of their art and their values and their humanity. And I think that that's that's really exciting. So there is no, I don't know if there's one perfect candidate. Um, but if you see yourself in this fellowship, then you should apply, and we want to talk to you for sure.

[30:04] Leah Harris: Definitely. And it's just if I can add to that, Leah has spoken just like beautifully about how we decolonize our ideas of experience. Um, and because the way that these systems are set up is that certain people who have certain experiences that are only afforded to those to people who look like them, um, then perpetuate that idea by saying you have to have this kind of degree or you have to have this, this, and that. Um, and so we're we are actively working to not answer the question of who is the right person for this, because we want the we want the candidates to answer that themselves. We want them to look at the descriptions of these jobs and say, you know what? I had this life, I went off and did this, this, and this.

I maybe didn't go to college, I maybe did I, you know, I was doing this, and I see myself doing that. I think that this works for me. I'm uh I work in a law office, and I think that you know, uh maybe this is a good thing for me. I'm I'm gonna become a company manager, then please come join us. Or, you know, I've been producing plays in my neighborhood at the church, and I and now I and I think I have a handle for what this could be, and I have some ideas, then please come join us. I mean, hell, that's how Tyler Perry got his start. So, like you could maybe be him. Um, so so there are many different routes to uh to to to to whatever success is, uh, and we want to make sure that we are open for all of those.

[31:36] Leah Harris: Yeah, and I think also too, just adding on that, just going back to when I was talking about leadership and what it looks like. It's like again, having fellows that are coming from, you know, all those different backgrounds that Travis just talked about. And you know, thinking about how that how that will how that diversity of experience and not necessarily coming through, you know, um, a specific training program or coming from the theater world, that's only going to enhance the ideas and the the innovation that Broadway's can do, right? By having just a diversity of thought. You know, someone that has not grown up in the industry or grown up seeing plays on Broadway's, whatever that is, that is only going to add to like the richness of the tapestry that our fellows will be able to add to. So I think it is important that like we really do punctuate that, you know, we're not centering um or putting a certain value on the traditional ways that you can you know become in these positions.

[32:24] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So and so how many fellows will be chosen at at some point later this year.

[32:31] Leah Harris: So we'll have um so we'll have six um within our GM program, GM and company management program, and we'll have one creative producer fellow. And we'll do that every year. So we'll do one new Prince fellow every year for the next three years. Um then once we have our stage management announcement, we'll know what that kind of rounded number looks like. Um, but we're we're not sure what that looks like yet.

[32:52] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So and sorry, go ahead.

[32:54] Leah Harris: Oh no, I was just gonna ask. And so this, so it is structured to this is an annual rolling program at least right now.

[33:00] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So specifically with the with the Prince Fellowship.

[33:03] Leah Harris: Okay, every every year we'll do a new, um, we'll support a new uh track within the creative producer fellowship.

[33:10] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Okay, great.

[33:11] Leah Harris: For three years for each of them.

[33:12] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Okay, yeah.

[33:13] Leah Harris: For each of them for three years, and with uh the general and company management fellow, they'll be there three years, and then we are we uh the program is built to in three years bring in a new crop of general and company management fellows.

[33:27] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Right.

[33:27] Leah Harris: And you have talked, you've both talked a little bit about how it's how the program is sort of structured to uh enable growth or change based on anything that might happen with the with the folks that uh are involved in this how looking ahead uh uh should the T should TTLP be able to grow and expand its its activities what for you are you hoping to be able to do even beyond what uh it's doing right now.

[33:55] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Hmm this is a good question. Yeah I mean I I think for me um and and uh I think that there is uh I think that there is obviously a lot of opportunity for leadership for people with people of color. There's just so much opportunity because there's very few. There are I can't think of a single uh general manager of color in the Broadway's world and I um and uh very few company managers and very few producers and stage managers and so there's a lot of opportunity out there uh to get them but I also think that uh as we continue to think about leadership and different leadership roles we're we're we are specifically focusing on leadership because of the the trickle down effect of that we believe that by hiring people of color getting people of color in leadership roles that they will also continue to hire uh people of color um and that that will have a trickle down effect um I think that one thing I'm interested in us doing is uh thinking about what are other leadership uh roles in the industry that we should also be examining with TTLP.

Um so I think that once we kind of get all of this started uh and we bring and we get the fellows in, then I think we it'll afford us a little time to think about okay, then what's next uh in terms of what other positions are we going after?

[35:18] Leah Harris: Yeah, I would agree. I think, yeah, I think because I'm also just really interested in the investigation of of leadership and and where we are, where we're calling upon our leaders to lead. And so I think as we continue to grow, I think I'm interested in that and in where else TTLP can support um leader leadership.

[35:35] Gordon Cox: Okay. Well, we look forward to seeing how the program grows and to seeing also how it begins. What is the uh the application? How if someone is interested in applying, how do they do it? Where do they do it and by when?

[35:45] Leah Harris: Yes. So the applications for the Prince Fellowship with Columbia are open now. You can go on our website and click through everything on our programs page and understand what the three-year offering is, and then go, and then you can click apply now and go apply for the Prince Fellowship. Um, those applications close June 15th, so we're about a month out. And the BTC applications for company and general management will be open on June 1. Um, and so if you sign up for our email lists on our website, you'll get all those updates when they're happening.

[36:14] Gordon Cox: Great.

[36:15] Leah Harris: All right.

[36:16] Gordon Cox: Um, well, thank you. Thank you both. It was great to talk to you, and we look forward to meeting your fellows when uh when when it launches.

[36:22] Leah Harris: Yes.

[36:22] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Absolutely.

[36:23] Leah Harris: They are going to be, we are we are gonna have a great rollout in trying to introduce them to the world.

[36:28] Travis Lamont Bellinger: So definitely looking forward to you meeting them.

[36:30] Gordon Cox: Excellent.

[36:31] Leah Harris: Thank you.

[36:31] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Thank you both.

[36:32] Leah Harris: Thanks.

[36:33] Travis Lamont Bellinger: Thanks.

[36:38] Gordon Cox: That was Travis Lamont Bellinger and Leah Harris, two of the executives behind the Theater Leadership Project. More information at theaterleadershipproject.org. That's theater with an RE, theaterleadershipproject.org. If you like what you're hearing on this and other episodes of Stagecraft, I'd really appreciate it if you took the time to rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps us grow our audience of folks who love theater as much as you and I do. Or tell a friend about Stagecraft. You can find past episodes or subscribe on all the pod places, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and on the Broadway's Podcast Network, which is a great place to find more theater for your ears. I'll be back in two weeks with another new episode. Until then, find me on Twitter at GcoxVariety. Thanks for listening and see you soon.