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[0:00] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's theater podcast, your backstage pass to revealing conversations with stars, creators, and industry leaders on Broadway, off-Broadway, and beyond. I'm Gordon Cox. On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to the stars of the new Broadway musical Death Becomes Her, Megan Hilty and Jennifer Simard. Hilty will be familiar to Broadway fans from shows including the stage musical 9 to 5 and, especially, the cult NBC series about the theater world, Smash. Simard, meanwhile, has stolen scenes in Broadway shows including Disaster, Company, and Once Upon a One More Time. Now, the two of them are starring in the stage adaptation of Death Becomes Her, the 1992 movie featuring Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn as two frenemies whose quest to stay young-looking and to one-up each other at every opportunity takes a comically dark turn when the magic potion they both drink has unintended consequences.

Hilty plays Madeline Ashton, the vain actress that Streep portrayed in the movie, with Simard starring as Helen Sharp, the novelist character played by Hawn. The show is now in previews on Broadway after a well-received tryout run in Chicago earlier this year, and now the duo are in the virtual studio with me to talk comic timing, macabre special effects, and why Hilty always knew Death Becomes Her would make a great musical. Hello, Megan and Jennifer. Thanks for joining me.

[1:31] Megan Hilty: Hello. Thank you for having us.

[1:33] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. You're both in previews, in Broadway previews right now for Death Becomes Her. How's it going? How's—does New York bring its own particular energy into the room when you do it?

[1:43] Megan Hilty: I think just being in previews on Broadway, just baseline means we're tired. We are, you know, we're rehearsing all day and doing a show at night, making changes constantly, and doing publicity for the show, which is great. All of it's great. But yeah, I'm tired.

[2:03] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gordon, how's it going for you? You were saying that some stuff is changing.

[2:09] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, there are changes every day, and the New York audiences are so welcoming as they were in Chicago, but I just love how savvy they are, too. They're really listening, and they're getting so much subtlety, subtle broad strokes as well as the large ones, and we really love our fans. And I was telling Gordon before that sometimes when they give us changes day of, you might see a large printed cheat sheet, maybe taped to the back of a car seat. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe.

[2:44] Gordon Cox: But Jennifer, when you were telling me that story, you ended up not needing that cheat sheet. You just had it, just in case, because you'd just gotten those lines, what, an hour before or something?

[2:52] Jennifer Simard: I just got those lines. Usually we get them the day before, but that was a couple of hours before, and it was quite dense. But I did it. I was happy to have my crutch.

[3:03] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. Megan, it's been about eight years since you've been on Broadway. Are you enjoying being back?

[3:10] Megan Hilty: I am! Yeah, I love being back in New York. I love being back in... God, we're in such an iconic theater. Every day I walk into the Lunt-Fontanne, I just, like, I pinch myself. I can't believe we're lucky enough to live there now. Yeah, and the audiences, just like Jen said, are magical. Yeah, I'm thrilled to be back.

[3:36] Gordon Cox: Yeah, good. And Jennifer, you were just in a show last year. You were in Once Upon a One More Time, and then you were in Company the year before that. So do you miss it when you're not on the eight-show-a-week schedule?

[3:48] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, it's really become an extension of who I am, I think. It's like a fifth appendage. My third arm, my third leg, it's just, that's what I do. And I've been lucky enough to be on a little bit of a run. We actors, you never know. And I don't think there are many actors who aren't nervous and think they'll never work again when a show ends, whether it's theater or television. You just think, oh, that's it. And the truth is, one day will be your last Broadway show. So it's really important to appreciate it while you have it. I certainly do.

[4:25] Gordon Cox: Megan, the last time we talked, you mentioned that you had always had an inkling that Death Becomes Her could make a great musical. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[4:33] Megan Hilty: Yeah, I think it was about maybe eight, ten years ago, something like that. Someone asked me, if I could turn any movie into a musical, what would it be? And I said, oh, Death Becomes Her. And I rattled off a laundry list of reasons why I thought it would make a fantastic musical. And they just kind of looked at me like, I thought they were looking at me like I was crazy. But then at the end of my big explanation as to why I thought this would make a great musical, they were like, Universal just announced this morning that they're working on it. I was like, oh, well, there you go. Yeah, I'm not the only one.

[5:12] Gordon Cox: You said you mentioned a list of reasons that you thought it would be a good one. What were the reasons?

[5:17] Megan Hilty: Yeah, first and foremost, the story is so great. But the camp and the general over-the-topness of everything just lends itself to breaking into song, which is a really difficult thing to justify when you're making something that was originally not a musical into a musical. You can watch that movie and go, oh, yeah, it would make sense if they burst out into song and nobody would question it. And those were my main reasons. On top of it being just like a cult classic that has a built-in audience that would love and adore it.

[6:03] Gordon Cox: Jennifer, tell me about your own relationship with the movie. Had you seen it? Did you know it slash love it?

[6:08] Jennifer Simard: Yes. It's interesting. When it first came out in theaters, I had a ticket with my then boyfriend and we went to the theater and I think there was a fire at the theater, kind of appropriate for the musical. And I couldn't go see it. So for years, and I'm devastated about this, I held on to that ticket stub because it was like in my boyfriend box, you know? I'm no longer with him. And I don't have it. So I had to go back and see it and I did. And like Megan, I was enamored immediately. And Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn have been idols of mine since I was a little girl. And when I think that I get to do Goldie's role now, her list of movies goes through my head. And like, oh, the number of times I watched Private Benjamin, it laughed my head off. Or, you know, it seems like old times or you name it, including Death Becomes Her. So it's just a thrill. And I think it's the perfect movie to musical transfer.

[7:00] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And Megan, when you found out about that musical, that they were making a musical Death Becomes Her, did you A, imagine yourself in the musical and B, cast yourself in the role that you are playing? Did you always think of yourself as a Madeline?

[7:14] Megan Hilty: Okay. Well, I guess, yeah, I'd always imagined myself possibly a Madeline. Like if I were to, you know, choosing between the two, I would be like, yeah, I think I'm a Madeline. But no, I was like, oh, great. They're making the musical. Fantastic. I didn't really think that I would be a part of it at all. I was just thrilled that it would actually come to life.

[7:37] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And so this is the Meryl Streep part that you're playing as sort of a vain actress. What makes you a Madeline as opposed to a Helen in your mind?

[7:45] Megan Hilty: Well, I think there's a little Madeline and a little Helen in me. But I do very much connect with the idea, not the idea, but the fact that she is an actress in a certain period of her life, questioning like her physicality and relevance because of it, unfortunately. And what exactly I'm willing to do and not do to try to achieve this level of perfection and youth and beauty that is frankly unachievable. You know, these are all things that I deal with on a very personal level. And I just think she's fabulous. She's so delicious. Like when I would never say any of these things in my real life. So it's really delightful and delicious to get to say these things in any capacity.

[8:52] Gordon Cox: And Jennifer, what about for you? You're the novelist, Helen Sharp, played by Goldie Hawn in the movie. What makes you a Helen as opposed to a Madeline?

[8:59] Jennifer Simard: Well, I also think as an actress, and particularly as a character actress, I personally believe that either of us could play either role and access those colors inside of us. But I did know pretty quickly I'm more of a Helen. And I am familiar with losing the guy to the other woman. I think a lot of women have had that experience. And when I look at the colors and the arc of the character and what it truly is, there's something about each scene that I can relate to, including mental health issues, of which I'm a big supporter and like to have a platform for. So the comedy that I have to bring to that moment, I feel like, you know, it's very broad, but it's okay, because I can speak to that. Or, you know, I have a new line, I'm on new medication.

Well, guess what? So am I. So, you know, I'm very vocal about that. And I think it's really important. So I really like Helen. And as much as I can be a leader, I really enjoy being the wingman. And I do enjoy being the first mate, as opposed to the captain. That's something about me that I really enjoy. I don't, I'm very happy to be beta. I can be alpha, but I'm very happy to play that role. And I think that is Helen's role in this. And I couldn't ask for a better alpha in Megan Hilty and Madeline Ashton that she brings to the stage so brilliantly.

[10:30] Gordon Cox: Have you considered a true West style role swap where you play, you know, your roles one night, and then you swap roles the next night?

[10:33] Jennifer Simard: I can barely remember my lines. I know. I can barely remember what I have to do. No. The show is so huge. I'm going to say yes, only because that would make a great charity event. Wouldn't it? Some sort of special actors from performance. Maybe not the whole show, but whoever is going to swap with you. Well, to be clear, it won't be as good.

[10:55] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. This is the first time the two of you have worked together. Is that right?

[11:00] Megan Hilty: Yeah.

[11:01] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. Yeah. And so much of this show rides on the relationship between these two frenemies. How would you describe that rapport, that comic rapport between the two of you?

[11:11] Megan Hilty: Fun and yummy and delicious. I'm so lucky to have a partner in Jennifer Simard. I've been a fan of hers for years and years and years and years and years. And so I was deeply aware of how talented she is. But now I know what a generous scene partner she is, too. So I'm even more of a fan.

[11:34] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, same. In fact, I was going through photos on my phone, and I kid you not, I found the photo of us. You found it? We met at the 2016 Tony Award brunch. When we were nominated for Tony?

[11:47] Megan Hilty: When you were nominated together, that's right. Oh, yes, I remember that year. Yes, I remember. It was really a nice year in our lives. So I was aware, like Megan said, of her and her talent and reputation. But I believe the chemistry you're seeing on stage is not only due to the fact that it's our job, but my best friend came to see the show the other night. She said, your chemistry is palpable off the stage. You can tell how much you like each other and how much you're having fun. And I'll just be real clear. This would kind of suck if we didn't actually genuinely like each other because we are married essentially. And I'm happy to report that it's just lovely to show up to work every day to such a wonderful human being and scene partner like Megan.

[12:43] Gordon Cox: I'll have more with Megan and Jennifer right after the break.

[12:48] Gordon Cox: And now back to my conversation with the stars of Death Becomes Her, Megan Hilty and Jennifer Simard. The movie and the show, of course, is so much about sort of youth culture, sort of appearance culture and about female rivalry. And in many ways, like some of our views may have evolved since the early 90s, but in many ways they also have not. And I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about this new version. It's got a book by the screenwriter Marco Panett, who was a showrunner on Ugly Betty. And it's got a score by a couple of newcomers, Julia Madison and Noel Carey. How do they tell the story for today while hanging on to the qualities that make the movie such a cult favorite? First of all, the writers across the board are magnificent, and we're so excited for what this will do for their lives, particularly our newcomers, our composers and lyricists, as you mentioned.

But they've been very wise about it. I'll speak to one thing in particular because it's about my character. We had a talk early on in one of the readings that it wouldn't be appropriate for me to be in a quote, fat suit, like they do in the movie. And I think body positivity and that kind of thing is very

[13:51] Megan Hilty: And it really has steered away from the body anything, you know, it's all about this. And so, I think that that was really, really smart, too. But yeah, but it is, it's unfortunate that so many of the issues that it focuses on are still issues today, you know, I don't know. But that's what makes the show successful, unfortunately.

[14:21] Jennifer Simard: Does the story as it plays today, does it have a message in your mind? And what do you think that message is? First and foremost, the purpose of the show is to check your day at the door, check your problems at the door and have a great time for two and a half hours. If anything, for me, it does throw into question, like, what are you willing to do in this quest for the unattainable idea of perfection? Because ultimately, at the end of the day, life is about the people that we're with and the relationships we have, and not about the superficial stuff.

[15:05] Megan Hilty: Yeah, I'll tag on and say, again, my friend who came the other night, left me a video message, and she started to cry when she was thinking about our friendship. And she said, you know, I love that the one of the messages is not about your person necessarily being a romantic relationship, but about your friendship, which she and I share, which Megan and I now share, which we share on stage. So that message is very clear.

[15:29] Jennifer Simard: The other thing that they're really great at doing, Gordon, to Megan's point about checking your problems at the door and coming in and having a laugh, there's really brilliant balance in the script that every time something is serious, right before it can become too tricky, you know, he'll hit you with a joke or something funny that brings the audience out of that. And it's this back and forth all the time of genuine feelings. But you know what, we're still horrible people at the end of the day. And you know, it just makes people laugh, that juxtaposition. I think that's one of the most successful things about Marco's script.

[16:09] Megan Hilty: And it is a sort of big, glitzy comedy of a style that I feel like we maybe haven't seen in a few years. You know, it's expensive, and you see it in every detail on the stage. It's so glamorous.

[16:30] Jennifer Simard: How difficult is that to navigate back? Does that make your job harder in terms of all the machinery back there?

[16:34] Megan Hilty: Oh, no. Yeah. No, it's so it's so wonderful to see every single department in the show just really went for it. And our producers at Universal, like really supported that. And it just shows like, everything is so thoughtfully done, down to the tiniest detail that you as the audience might not see, but we do and we feel it. It's extraordinarily helpful to be in the midst of all of these incredibly ornate costumes and props and scenery and our lights and everything. It's decadent.

[17:05] Jennifer Simard: Yeah. And it is a breath of fresh air, you know, after the pandemic, we all needed a show like this. That's really pure Broadway. You come in and you're like, Oh, this is Broadway. This is Broadway from A to Z. And that's lovely. And it's just a good time. It's very entertaining.

[17:20] Megan Hilty: And to the point of the sets and is, you know, how is that navigating that?

[17:25] Jennifer Simard: I agree that it's a joy. It's a privilege. There have been a lot of movie studios that have come to Broadway. I'm not going to name the shows, but you know, some of them haven't been as successful. And so just because you have a studio and money backing it doesn't mean it's going to work. And this one, I think it really does. It's all come together. And, you know, it's just, it's, you know, I had to bring up my friends, but another friend said, how are you dealing with all the pressure of it? And I'm like, I don't feel the pressure. I don't. And a part of that is, in my opinion, I think Megan and I have full lives and we're very grounded individuals. And we're ready for the task of taking on this big piece. And so it's an honor.

[18:09] Megan Hilty: What's the take on when the show is set? Because there's sort of a retro vibe to some of the design, and it's very glitzy and very glamorous, but it's also not necessarily yesterday. It could also be today. What did you have discussions about that? And what's your, what's the thinking on that?

[18:25] Jennifer Simard: Yeah, we purposely didn't date it. Anything that can say what date specifically. There's references to 10 years later, but what 10 years? There are. Yeah, it's basically like any time, but there are very, very specific references to things like Venmo, you know, things like that. Very time specific.

[18:40] Megan Hilty: We have an iPhone like.

[18:42] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[18:43] Megan Hilty: What a lot of people really remember about this movie, in addition to the comedy, is kind of the elaborate special effects that are part of the story as these two immortal women sort of put their bodies through the ringer. A lot of us, you know, will remember the movie poster, which has been recreated to a degree in one of your posters with Meryl Streep's head turned all the way around 180 degrees and Goldie Hawn with a big hole in her torso. How would you want audiences to walk in with their expectations regarding those special effects and kind of what they can expect in terms of the illusion and the kind of body comedy that happens in the show?

[19:10] Jennifer Simard: Well, one of the things that we learned in Chicago was that when we really lean into the camp and like the, I hesitate to say, but I kind of like the word messy, you know, like the, when it isn't super slick, you know, audiences love it, like, especially for this show. If it was, if you were, if it was kind of like going to like a Vegas magic show, you know, like that level of like slickness, it doesn't quite match the tone of what we're doing. So, and really listening to those audiences in Chicago and how they reacted to the different elements of those effects, it seemed like the more we leaned into the campier versions and just like anything else, when you're doing a recreation of something, if you're shooting for the essence instead of a mimicry, it's going to be more successful because you're never going to be able to perfectly recreate something. People want to see your version of it. And I think they're going to be extraordinarily delighted with our version of all of these effects.

[20:06] Megan Hilty: Yeah, I think for New York, we've really nailed so many of the effects and they're, I believe people are going to come in and what I want them to feel, to your point, Gordon is, okay, what have you got? And what I, and to be, to have their expectations surpassed. And I believe they are by and large.

[20:25] Jennifer Simard: Does that element, the sort of comic effects part of the show, does that add a degree of difficulty to your job and or a degree of fun backstage?

[20:32] Megan Hilty: Both. It's very important when you're working on these effects. I'll speak for myself to remember that you're, for everyone to respect the fact that we are human beings. And if you're not careful, you can start to feel like an animatronic at the Hall of Presidents. And it's just so, these are very, theaters are dangerous places. And so there's a lot of departments involved from prosthetics and electrical department, as you might imagine, the dance department, there's so much, there's so many hands affecting this. And so as the actors who have to make it work, and if something goes wrong to improv in front of 1200 people, it's a very delicate dance and one of great care and time. It takes a lot of time. Wouldn't you agree, Megan?

[21:34] Megan Hilty: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The number of rehearsals just on the last thing.

[21:39] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[21:40] Gordon Cox: Both of you, in addition to Death Becomes Her, you have a couple of other projects where folks can see you or hear you, Megan, a TV show that you have a major role in, The Pradeep's of Pittsburgh just started airing on Amazon Prime.

[21:50] Megan Hilty: Isn't that crazy? I did that like a year and a half ago. Yeah. Because of the strikes, everything got pushed and pushed and pushed. And now everything's just happening at the same time.

[22:00] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[22:01] Jennifer Simard: So that's on Amazon. And Jennifer, I just learned this about you. You have a Golden Girls podcast.

[22:06] Jennifer Simard: I do. It's called the Golden Girls Deep Dive podcast. You can get it wherever you listen to your podcast. And it's really taken off. It's pretty big hit. And I, you know, I watched it with my late mother. So it's very personal to me. And that seems to be a story that a lot of people have. So if you want to have a good laugh, come listen, because it's really just candy.

[22:25] Gordon Cox: So great. Golden Girls is kind of in a similar sort of female oriented, gay friendly, 80s, 90s comedy. It's sort of in the same vein as Death Becomes Her.

[22:38] Jennifer Simard: We have a crossover market for sure.

[22:40] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[22:41] Jennifer Simard: Yeah.

[22:42] Gordon Cox: And you're still in season one in your sort of rewatch. Is that right?

[22:46] Jennifer Simard: Yes. We don't stop. We smartly front loaded a bunch of the episodes so that I could focus just on Death Becomes Her. So we'll pick up recording again in December. And you will hear all of season one through Thanksgiving and early December, you'll start hearing season two, and there's seven seasons. So buckle up.

[23:03] Gordon Cox: So the two of you are in Death Becomes Her for the foreseeable future. But looking ahead to your next Broadway gig, what comic duo would the two of you want to play together next?

[23:12] Jennifer Simard: So here's the thing. Because I've tried to do this before, do a list of shows where there's two female leads. Write down a list. It's short. It's short. That's why this show is extraordinarily special. There's only a handful of shows. We could do Wicked. We could do Sideshow. We could do The Odd Couple. There's City of Angels.

[23:30] Megan Hilty: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[23:31] Jennifer Simard: Well, the other day, we were dressed up and we looked kind of ridiculous. And I told you, we were in our dressing rooms. That's right. In our just like our wig caps and our bathrobes. I was like, look at us, Megan. Let's do a show called The Maids of Manhasset. You know, we just look great.

[23:46] Megan Hilty: But I just told Megan yesterday, I wrote a treatment for a screenplay a few years ago. And I'm like, oh, it'd be perfect because the people I based it on were Amy Poehler and Tina Fey. And you can guess which one we'd each be. I don't know.

[24:01] Jennifer Simard: Hey, Universal. I'll just give it to them. We'll do a movie next. That's a movie and a musical all at once.

[24:07] Megan Hilty: Well, but there is a song and dance in it. Don't worry.

[24:10] Gordon Cox: Great. Well, we look forward to it. We're counting on it.

[24:14] Megan Hilty: I mean, I decided that's what it's going to be. Whatever.

[24:18] Gordon Cox: All right. Well, listen, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you both. Enjoy previews and happy opening shortly later this month.

[24:27] Megan Hilty: Thanks, Gordon.

[24:28] Gordon Cox: That was Megan Hilty and Jennifer Simard, the stars of Death Becomes Her, now on Broadway at the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre.

[24:36] Gordon Cox: If you enjoyed this conversation here on Stagecraft, help us out. We'd so appreciate it if you took the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcasting platform. It really helps. Or tell a friend about Stagecraft. Find past episodes and subscribe at all the places you get your pods, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on the Broadway Podcast Network, a great place to find more theater for your ears. Until next episode, find me on Instagram and Twitter at Gordon B. Cox. You can also check out my newsletter about international theater. It's called JQueez and it's at GordonCox.Substack.com. Thanks for listening and see you at the theater.