This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:06] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's Theater Podcast, bringing you backstage and behind the scenes, with the stars, creators, and industry leaders bringing Broadway back to life and bringing musicals to the big screen this holiday season.

[0:19] Gordon Cox: I'm your host, Gordon Cox.

[0:22] Gordon Cox: On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to Peter Dinklage. The actor is probably best known for his role as Tyrion Lannister in Game of Thrones, but theater fans will have seen him in shows including Richard the Third, Uncle Vanya, and most recently, the new musical theater adaptation of Cyrano de Bergerac, called simply Cyrano.

[0:40] Gordon Cox: Now he's reprising his role in the new movie adaptation of the musical, directed for the screen by Joe Wright, with songs by members of the band The National. The movie hits theaters January 22nd, and Dinklage is in the virtual studio with me to talk great theater roles, singing on stage and on screen, and what it was like to film Cyrano during a pandemic on the side of an active volcano.

[1:04] Gordon Cox: Hey Peter, thanks for joining me.

[1:06] Peter Dinklage: Hello, Gordon, how are you?

[1:08] Gordon Cox: I'm great, thank you. Um, how are you doing?

[1:11] Peter Dinklage: You've got this movie that's about to come out.

[1:13] Peter Dinklage: Yeah, I've just sort of been on the road with it for a couple weeks now.

[1:18] Peter Dinklage: We went to London and then LA. Now I'm back in New York. Um, you know, doing the salesmanship of something you believe in.

[1:26] Peter Dinklage: Yeah. Um, no, it's good. It's we shot this movie about a year ago. Um in Sicily.

[1:33] Peter Dinklage: It's beautiful. We should say the locations are gorgeous. We shot in a town called Noto, Sicily, and then up on the side of a volcano, Mount Etna.

[1:43] Peter Dinklage: Um, towards the end of shooting, which was a thrill and a cold, shivering pleasure. Um it started way f uh much further back than that, because it started as a theater piece.

[1:59] Peter Dinklage: Yeah. Um yeah, so that that really a couple years ago. It just sort of workshop production uh up in Connecticut.

[2:08] Gordon Cox: Right.

[2:08] Peter Dinklage: That was at the Goodspeed, yeah.

[2:10] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[2:10] Peter Dinklage: And then we went about a year later, we went down, brought it down to downtown uh New York.

[2:16] Gordon Cox: Yeah, right.

[2:17] Peter Dinklage: And I think before uh I think before that, either seeing it on stage or in the film, I don't think a lot of us knew that you sing. What is your history with uh singing and with musical theater in particular?

[2:29] Peter Dinklage: Well, jury's still out about that. Can in fact sing. No, I I enjoy you know, taking on new challenges. And you know, if something comes across my way and it's requires me to sing, I say, why not? Um leap off the cliff and see what happens.

[2:47] Peter Dinklage: No, I I suppose I can sing, um, but there's a lot of people who are really good singers out there. And it sort of was like, I know my skill set, but I'm gonna try and do it my way. And uh yeah, no, it was fun. I mean, you I had the privilege of singing beautiful songs too.

[3:06] Peter Dinklage: And it wasn't really, it's not really a musical as much as it is a play and then a movie with songs, right? So it didn't require me to be like Broadway singing and dancing at the same time, because I know I could never do that. Having a lot of friends who do that on Broadway for a living, I look at them and I just wow.

[3:27] Peter Dinklage: Um, and some of them still smoke cigarettes and do that. It's incredible.

[3:31] Gordon Cox: That's baffling, yeah.

[3:32] Peter Dinklage: Yeah, but uh, but this one was just beautiful, sort of intimate love songs written by this band, The National, one of my favorite bands. Um, and so that was that was very helpful. And they were very helpful in encouraging me and making me feel pretty cool.

[3:45] Peter Dinklage: It is notable that the first time you open your mouth to sing, you think, Oh, your voice is probably as deep as that guy from The National, right? Because he's got a very deep voice. Like, we have the same similar baritone register, but but the trick was for me not to do an imitation of Matt because he's one of the voices, and you sort of just you have to make it your own, you know.

[4:04] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[4:04] Peter Dinklage: And so, how did this back back uh as it was started out as a theater piece? How did the idea for it come about? Was Cyrano a story you always wanted to tell? Was had you been in it before as in the in the play, or um, I had never really thought I would ever play Cyrano.

[4:21] Peter Dinklage: I hadn't given it much thought. There's some dream roles you have out there, whether it be Shakespeare or Chekhov roles, and I've been fortunate enough to play some of those that I always wanted to play. But this one wasn't on my radar, and I think it was because it just all due respect to Rostand's original, it didn't really speak to me.

[4:39] Peter Dinklage: It was sort of very theatrical, um, and it was all about a guy and a and a nose, and inevitably the nose was a fake nose, and it was played by a handsome actor. And I just thought the theatric I I was I was always really interested in doing very realistic, gritty drama, especially when I was young, like Sam Shepard and then Harold Pinter, and that those plays spoke to me more than this one did.

[5:07] Peter Dinklage: Um, you know, I was a serious artist in my 20s, and I you know, I just wanted to get down and dirty, and I didn't want to have feathers in my cap and a fake nose. Um, but as soon as Erica Schmidt had the great idea of removing the nose, then it really spoke to me because it was it was a still had the same heart to it, um and and the same vulnerability of this character.

[5:30] Peter Dinklage: He still had the same complexity of character because he's he's so brave in one aspect of his life the fighting and the and the and the and being in war and all of that but he's totally nervous and and um doesn't know what to do in the face of of love.

[5:48] Gordon Cox: Right.

[5:49] Peter Dinklage: But getting rid of the nose it got rid of so much language about the nose that I always just thought what's the big deal it's just like a handsome actor and a fake nose he gets to take it off after each show. What's he going off about? I don't know.

[6:00] Gordon Cox: Yeah right yeah and how did the folks from The National get involved um they are just uh amazing Erica was thinking about them uh while she was writing it and they write about heartbreak and longing and loss as much as Rostand was writing about it.

[6:23] Peter Dinklage: And their music is just beautiful and poetic and painful in a good way. So she just reached out to them. I had a friend because I was involved sort of early on with the with the production it wasn't written for me but I sort of grabbed hold of it and wouldn't let go and tried and convinced I guess Erica to cast me in the stage production.

[6:47] Gordon Cox: Right.

[6:47] Peter Dinklage: But I uh had a friend who had a friend of theirs of The National so I sort of Erica reached out to that person and they they just these are guys are risk takers they're they you know it's these the as the older we get I think the more we just we branch out into other things the the real Renaissance men these guys and uh they they really jumped at the opportunity it was hard to to pin them down because they tore a lot and all of that and uh yeah you know they they wanted to be sure they were getting involved with something quality and and they didn't take much to convince them in terms of what Erica had presented to them.

[7:25] Gordon Cox: Right.

[7:25] Peter Dinklage: Yeah.

[7:26] Gordon Cox: And what do you have a memory of uh a moment in rehearsal or just in your own sort of process that uh really unlocked your version of Cyrano for you like what was the moment of insight for you do you did you remember?

[7:39] Peter Dinklage: In terms of from the beginning yeah from the character or for yeah like what how did you how did you find your way into the character well I always I sort of started to relate to his brave face and and like he's a very different person when Roxanne is looking at him than when she than when she's looking away he sort of he fakes he pretends he puts on I mean he has an avatar speak him for him and what else is an actor but you know that what else is an actor but a Christian and I thought um that's sort of something that I really kind of can understand.

[8:23] Peter Dinklage: Somebody somebody said aren't all writers your actors Cyranos um somebody said that a few months ago uh when we were talking about the movie and I thought yeah it's true um we are we need our Cyranos um and so I could really relate to it in that way and you know putting on on a personal level, putting on you know a brave face for those you love, you know, it's what being parent that being a parent is really um um being strong or doing your best in trip in impersonation of strength, at least, even if you're not feeling that strength, and that's what he does.

[9:04] Gordon Cox: Yeah, and how would you describe how the songs function in in the show and then the movie? What uh if they're not if you don't think of it as traditional musical theater, what what do you feel like the uh the songs give you an opportunity to do that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do if you weren't singing?

[9:25] Peter Dinklage: Um well, it's much easier on the ears because of the melodies that The National had written in the musical accompanying, you know, to hear someone talk about love is very different than somebody singing a love song if it's a really good love song.

[9:42] Peter Dinklage: Um and we certainly have been hearing the love songs our whole lives, and sort of, you know, it's the rhythm of our heartbeat, and it was sort of like uh music is so it's so globally uh understood.

[9:59] Peter Dinklage: Um so it defies meaning it defies language barriers and and and uh um it also it didn't ever feel like we sort of stopped talking and then the spotlight hit us and we started singing.

[10:15] Peter Dinklage: Sometimes songs can be detached from the book of the musical, and they're sort of they live as two separate entities, no matter how good they are, they sort of live as two separate entities. And a lot of this just sort of Erica's script just kind of flowed into Matt and Corinne, the lyricists's language. Um, and but it was allowed to be uh more um unabashedly poetic because that's what these characters are or strive to be. Right. And they made Roxanne into a poet in this one. She wasn't really so much, she was a lover of poetry, but she wasn't so much, she didn't really have um the character that she does until Erica brought her forth and sort of removed the glass that surrounded her from previous productions.

Um, you know, because a male writer wrote this 120 years ago. The the the I the use the usual go-to is to put female characters on pedestals, um, and the men were there to woo them and try to understand them. Um, but this was this Roxanne that Erica created and that they wrote songs for, you know, like the song I need more. That's all about strength and and being hungry and being denied what society is giving you or what men are giving you because they treat you a certain way, if you're beautiful or not. And that's that's that really was great about this version of it.

[11:41] Peter Dinklage: Yeah, yeah. Not so serious, but but everybody had sort of a way of voicing their their hearts, Christian, yeah. Um, we should say for people who uh are not aware, Erica Schmidt wrote uh adapted and directed the stage version and wrote the screenplay for uh the film. Um and at what point, speaking of adapting, at what from uh stage to film, at what point did discussions about a movie come into play? Uh it never had until I mean I it's so funny because I've been doing movies now for so long, and I I do movies more than plays now. You if you live in New York, where I live, you you start off a lot of me and my friends, we start off our career in the theater, and then we suddenly get more and more film work, and then the film and TV work takes over, but you like to return to the stage.

So uh I think because I have such a sort of a cinematic brain at this point. I always saw what Erica did. She directs and she writes very cinematically for for stage. Um how she does it is really quite something.

[12:54] Peter Dinklage: She it's it's rarely is it just two people sitting on a couch talking. It's more visually arresting than that. So I it sort of made sense when Joe Wright, Joe Wright came to the show. The director of the film came to the show in support of Haley Bennett, who is his partner in life. Yep. And as we do, he came up to Connecticut, and then he sort of didn't know what he was getting himself into because he sort of in supporting Haley, he fell in love with the show and what Erica had done and was inspired to make the film version of it. Um I think that's a lot of it is due to Erica's sort of uh visually cinematic uh that she aesthetic that she has on the stage. Instead of fighting, sword fighting on stage, she had this great idea of like doing these abstract, like almost slow motion um speed rampy fights. Um, you know, snowfell. Uh if they she could if she could have a hurricane on stage, she would. Right. Um, so it uh makes sense that he was floored by that show.

[14:05] Peter Dinklage: Yeah.

[14:05] Gordon Cox: I'll have more with Peter right after the break.

[14:15] Gordon Cox: And now here's more with Peter Dinklage.

[14:19] Gordon Cox: Joe Wright is the director of films like Atonement and Pride and Prejudice and Woman in the Window and Darkest Hour and things like that. What do you find what do you find his take and his version of the story brings to uh to the film? What do you what do you feel like his take on it is?

[14:35] Peter Dinklage: The advantage of a film of this is I think he just was probably I mean I haven't talked to him about it, but he was probably just wanting close-ups as you watch the as you watch the the the rectangular you know 40 feet away production where you can see everything. I think he probably wanted to get close up to our faces, and that's what film affords you and with a very intimate show, intimate in moments, a lot of moments in this one. Um that close-up because he loves faces, he loves actors. Um and it was kind of great after doing the stage version to have that intimacy with the camera, yeah, um, and be able to sing softly and not in a sort of theatrical theatrical singing voice, which you need when you're trying to hit the back row there, but um to be really intimate with the with the with the piece, and you know, the camera picks up everything, so we had to really just draw draw and take everything we did on stage and really as Shirley MacLaine once told me, just take it down.

[15:43] Gordon Cox: How hard is was that a challenge, or what what what's harder for you to go big or to go small?

[15:51] Peter Dinklage: Um that's a good question. I don't know. It depends. I I uh um you know there's nothing better than than live anything live everything so pre-recorded and and and uh mastered after the actor has done anything you know live things can go wrong and the audience forgives you um every show night after night that you're telling the exact same story with the exact same people but each one is unique which just blows my mind um that that's that's i mean that's part of the thrill but so yeah i mean i i definitely probably have gotten smaller um having done movies and understand the the the importance of that for sure yeah yeah and so you're talking about making a movie out of this and then there's a pandemic and uh that threw a wrench into everybody's uh lives and work and everything and so what was there a moment when you thought maybe the movie wasn't gonna happen at all

[15:55] Peter Dinklage: oh yeah there was probably about a 80% chance that it wasn't gonna happen at all um because you know even without a pandemic a lot of movies don't happen at all right um I I mean I've you know tell ask anybody and yeah it's just it's just it's really hard to get a movie made right they cost well they cost too much money in my opinion but um um especially now but it it's really hard and uh um but they they were really they persevered i mean I think actually in a weird way covet and the pandemic sort of uh gave it sort of a uh rebellious quality of of like really hungry and really wanting to get it made and get people paid so they can feed their families again.

[17:41] Peter Dinklage: So it's sort of it was uh kind of I love that despite how terrible the pandemic was, it infused the filmmaking with a real sort of outsider gorilla aesthetic um uh in terms of getting it done and and fighting all you could to get it done um and solving things creatively rather than financially because we we were we were just confined by what the pandemic got by the guidelines of the pandemic, right? Um and you know, being on in a really beautiful location, but and living in a bubble, which I think I love shooting on location because you do uh you are like a sort of a tight group, uh uh whether there's a pandemic or not, but the pandemic definitely made us very insulated.

[18:30] Peter Dinklage: It sounds a little bit like being uh in rehearsal for uh for play.

[18:33] Gordon Cox: Yeah, you know, sort of be with your ensemble.

[18:35] Peter Dinklage: Yeah, yeah. You just you're you're tightly tightly knit group and then you're off on your way. Some of the sometimes you never see the people again.

[18:54] Gordon Cox: Right.

[18:54] Peter Dinklage: Yeah.

[18:54] Peter Dinklage: Is there a uh particular uh memory or uh moment in the process of filming that sort of encapsulates that whole experience for you?

[19:03] Peter Dinklage: Yeah. Um the the shooting the war stuff um on Mount Aetna, which was an active volcano. Yeah, that that sort of is sort of why I like to make movies. No matter how cold it is or hard it is, and the crew is working overtime and everybody's exhausted. Um we were all sleeping in these little hotels at the foot of the volcano um and it was snowing and it was just gorgeous and you had the greatest view of Sicily and and there is a moment where you know we were all pretty tired and suddenly somebody started a snowball fight when when you know actors sit around a lot waiting for things to get set up and we were we just got into like the greatest most playful snowball fight like we were kids I hadn't been in a snowball fight in a very long time I forgot how much fun they were that was sort of here we were and if you take a step back which you know now that I have taken many steps back it's here we are in a pandemic on the side of an active volcano and literally active like it was in the morning at 3 a.m when we'd go to work it's she'd like lava glowing it was the whole the whole sky was red but in a true Sicilian spirit like she's okay don't worry about it we'll know when she call her she it's that no we'll we'll know when she's we'll know when she's angry at us it's like they had an understanding with her um I think it's because there's a whole there's when you drive up there's an old monastery that you can see um the the priest or no it was a nunnery um convent and the nuns were in there praying they couldn't leave and the lava stone goes right around it the the the convent is here and you see this so like wow and they lived um so they ever since then I think there's been an understanding um anyway so just having a snowball fight on the side of this active volcano it's in a in a pandemic actors are big children, but just really behaving like children, but in a positive way, not complaining about our coffee or anything.

[21:08] Peter Dinklage: Just it was just so much fun. And that's what that was a moment that stands out for me. And it was towards the end of filming when we were all sort of just had knew each other really well and just said, yeah. We're also like completely burnt out at the same time.

[21:22] Gordon Cox: Sure.

[21:23] Peter Dinklage: We should mention also that the choreography does that there's some interesting stuff going on with the choreography in this film and how dance is kind of worked into the storytelling. The choreography is by CeeDee Larvey Shirk Shirkkoe. I was have tried to stumble over that. He also choreographed Jagged Little Pill on Broadway. Um how uh tell us a little bit about that for folks who haven't seen the film yet.

[21:46] Peter Dinklage: Well, um, thank goodness I didn't have to do much of it. I got to in some of the big numbers, watch. I mean it runs the it runs from the game from from you know, people in the beginning. There's a there's a big uh there's a big theater show, and Cyrano comes and interrupts a play because he hates the main actor, but there's a whole dance piece with dancers in sheep's costume, which was just hilarious. And then there's all these sort of what war, in my opinion, should be like. It was it's a bunch of soldiers dancing together. Um men and men um dancing with each other. It's the most beautiful dance. Um, and I wish all soldiers could do that um and stop fighting. Um sort of it's sort of it had this real uh just I don't know.

I remember the Fisher King um when they all everybody sort of is going through Grand Central Station, and Terry Gilliam has everybody suddenly strangers dancing with each other, and what what life could be like uh in one's imagination of what it should be like.

[22:58] Peter Dinklage: Um it reminded me of that. Also we're in these in this uh these barracks where all these guys are like you see fighting and they're just being manly men and soldiers, and then Christian starts singing this love song, and then they all start starts uh dancing together, and just it's just it's just heartbreakingly beautiful. And then uh because they're extensions of sort of what the character's going through. I'm writing a love letter and I'm doing it in a bakery, and whether the and then all the bakers start dancing with each other, and that was in the original stage production. They throw flour up into the air and they dance with their dough, and it's just it's whether it's happening, it is happening, but it seems like it's happening also at the same time in the character's imagination, how they see life because they're also romantic, and yeah, shouldn't that always be the way?

[23:52] Peter Dinklage: Yeah, going into Whole Foods, going down the aisle phone like you know, instead of complaining about the price of their tuna fish.

[24:02] Gordon Cox: Uh you mentioned uh you've had some time to take a few steps back now from uh from Cyrano. What seeing the movie now? Uh what how do you feel like the story resonates right now for us in terms of where we are and what it says to us?

[24:19] Peter Dinklage: Well, everybody's hiding hiding behind a false version of themselves, I think, still. And that's what you know, Cyrano does with Christian. What is love if you're lying to the person you claim you love, you know. I think people hopefully most people are well intended, but they they are setting up on with profiles online. The internet has created such a heavy gauze between ourselves and uh who we the world thinks we are. We we create these false profiles of ourselves online. Um we that that sets sets up for disappointment and you know to be so dramatic, tragedy. Um you know, I mean, I mean, to a certain extent, we all do. We all want to present the best version of ourselves when we walk out the door.

We comb our hair, we put on nice clothes, and that's who we want to present. Um, and that's who we are to a certain extent, but it also calls into question who are we and and and and all of that. Are we living in the moment? Are we really connecting to anybody if it's just this not if this sort of if it's this false version of ourselves, and we're receiving a false version of someone else, maybe not false, but just inaccurate, completely inaccurate.

[25:45] Peter Dinklage: Um that's that's how it relates. I mean, because it was written 120 years ago, and that it's it reminds me of today's uh catfishing, you know, what it is. He's catfishing, and that calls into question what is love. I mean, I feel like people, most people, it's because there's they're they have an idea very strong idea, or they think they have a strong idea of what love is, but I don't know if that's necessarily true, if that's how you're you know, walking out the door towards love as is somebody you're not, you know.

[26:17] Peter Dinklage: I don't know. It's it's it's it's it's uh you know, it's the reason why these classics are classic because they're dealing with the same stories that will be relatable now and 200 years from now and beyond and will the story will be continued to be told it's a continuum there's there's many productions of Cyrano before this and many productions after this you know so that's that's really important to consider um yeah uh you mentioned early on in our conversation that uh you've got uh that you have a sort of list of you know roles that you have wanted to play uh some of which you've played some of which you have not what are some of the ones that are still on your list um well like the like British actors raised on Shakespeare they play Shakespearean roles a lot of their lives and they play the same role many times and it's just it's that is such a joy because there's so there's so uh every time you go back to it you unearth something more that's why there's such great roles and I think that also happens the older you get you you see a role differently I played Richard the third about uh 15 years ago I saw that production oh you did oh I did yeah yeah no but I you know 15 years later I would love to go back to that role I played Uncle Vanya about 10 years ago yeah 10 years from now I would love to play that those are two like my favorite roles and I don't think I don't think I even scratched the surface um truly of what those characters are and that's what's a what's thrilling to me?

[28:02] Peter Dinklage: Um, and I can't think of anything out there. I mean, you always think uh, you know, Hamlet, and then you they're like, nah, I'm too old to play Hamlet, but Ian McKellen just played Hamlet. Yeah, dying to see Ian McKellen's Hamlet. Um, so you know, they're out there. Um, the trick is not to be like the reason why you want to do it is to because you saw one of your favorite actors do it. So I think that just kind of triggers something in you that you adored something and you want to sort of see what you can do, and that's you know, it that's like the old uh John Malkovich and True West. Every guy my age loved him in True West. And and if you do True West, are you gonna do it like Malkovich? Because it inspired you so heavily at a certain age that I feel like all of us are trapped in like the Malkovich imitation. If you did that, if you did that play, you know.

[28:56] Peter Dinklage: Um or you know, it's like that story about Vivian Lee, uh, Blanche Dubois wasn't written by Tennessee Williams as that sort of damsell-y sort of the uh Vivian Lee as Vivian Lee played it in the film.

[29:12] Gordon Cox: Right.

[29:13] Peter Dinklage: And now every since Vivian Lee, everybody plays it that way.

[29:17] Peter Dinklage: That wasn't Tennessee Williams' intention at all, nor was Marlon Brando's portrayal of Stanley uh Williams' intention at all originally, yeah.

[29:26] Peter Dinklage: But now you think Streetcar, you think Brando, you think Vivian Lee, and those those archetypes that they created.

[29:32] Peter Dinklage: Um, so you gotta be just gotta be careful and just make it your own.

[29:36] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. Well, we look forward to seeing your next Richard the third or Uncle Vanya or whatever is next for you on stage. And until then, we'll see you on screen in Cyrano. Thanks so much, Peter.

[29:45] Peter Dinklage: Thanks to you, Gordon. Lovely to talk to you.

[29:47] Gordon Cox: Thank you.

[29:52] Gordon Cox: That was Peter Dinklage, now starring in the movie Cyrano in theaters, January 22nd. If you like what you're hearing on this and other episodes of Stagecraft, I'd really appreciate it if you took the time to rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps us grow our audience of folks who love theater as much as you and I do. Or tell a friend about Stagecraft, or give us a shout-out on social media. Find past episodes or subscribe on all the pod places, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and on the Broadway Podcast Network, which is a great place to find more theater for your ears. Coming up, our biweekly release schedule will take an additional week off for the holidays. But I'll be back soon with another new episode. Until then, find me on Twitter at G Cox Variety. Thanks for listening and see you at the theater.