This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Johanna Moise: What's your wish?

[0:04] Joshua Kobak: Stanton, stage manager.

[0:06] Joshua Kobak: We need you on stage tonight.

[0:08] Joshua Kobak: Go to dressing room 1 for costumes or light.

[0:13] Joshua Kobak: Super Swinging.

[0:18] Joshua Kobak: If you can understand me speaking now, as well as anyone can in real life, you've set a good volume. Thank you for riding with real... Super Swinging.

[0:31] Joshua Kobak: Be advised, sounds are coming from all around you. Super Swinging.

[0:40] Joshua Kobak: There you are. Welcome to Rialto. Follow me, the show's about to start. Keep your headphones on for the most immersive experience. Super Swinging.

[0:56] Katy Pfaffl: Hi, I'm your host, Katy Pfaffl.

[0:58] Joshua Kobak: And I'm your co-host, Joshua Kobak. We're grateful that you're here with us to learn more about what makes a swing super.

[1:05] Katy Pfaffl: Okay, so I am so happy to be here today with, will you tell us your name?

[1:09] Johanna Moise: I'm Johanna Moise.

[1:10] Katy Pfaffl: And Johanna, so currently you are swinging...

[1:14] Johanna Moise: Death Becomes Her.

[1:15] Katy Pfaffl: But you are also a swing in...

[1:16] Johanna Moise: Hamilton.

[1:17] Katy Pfaffl: The musical.

[1:18] Johanna Moise: Yeah, and how long were you with Hamilton?

[1:20] Johanna Moise: Including the pandemic, five years.

[1:22] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[1:23] Johanna Moise: Including the pandemic. I was 18 months off because they took such good care of us while everything was going crazy. And then they asked me to come back, which was awesome. I was a part of the remount of it all in August 21.

[1:35] Katy Pfaffl: Oh my gosh. Did you get that experience?

[1:38] Johanna Moise: With Death Becomes Her?

[1:39] Katy Pfaffl: We did actually because it was my first OBC.

[1:43] Johanna Moise: Yay!

[1:44] Katy Pfaffl: And that means, what does that mean?

[1:46] Johanna Moise: It's an original Broadway cast.

[1:48] Katy Pfaffl: Oh my gosh. Which was on my bucket list for all of 2021. I was like, that's what I want to do, I need to do it. And then I got to do it. But because it was that, we had obviously our little swing table in the corner of the room, but everyone was always together and we were all called at the same time. So we started the day with each other, ended the day with each other, hopped in, hopped out, took notes.

[2:11] Johanna Moise: Amazing.

[2:12] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, that's great. So I've been really lucky in both processes to have a we're coming back together moment.

[2:18] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[2:19] Katy Pfaffl: Which is cool.

[2:20] Johanna Moise: That actually is rare.

[2:21] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, it's rare and it's really important as a swing too to feel that you're fully in the team.

[2:25] Johanna Moise: Yes.

[2:26] Katy Pfaffl: And immersed and respected and valued.

[2:29] Johanna Moise: Truly, I feel extremely lucky, especially because I joined Hamilton pre-pandemic. As a new swing, you're in the rehearsal room with the dance captain and you're working. You're just alone in the room with the dance captain.

[2:41] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[2:42] Johanna Moise: And the dance captain's going like, so-and-so is over there.

[2:45] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[2:46] Johanna Moise: So-and-so is over there. And Hamilton's cool. They have a rehearsal studio. They call it King's College. And the stage is like taped out so that it matches the stage. But obviously the floor doesn't move. Do you want to explain the turntable of Hamilton?

[2:57] Johanna Moise: The turntable of Hamilton is, there's two circles on the floor, the inner donut and the outer donut. And they move clockwise and counterclockwise. Sometimes they're going the same way. Most of the time they're not.

[3:08] Katy Pfaffl: And your first time doing it is like a doozy.

[3:11] Johanna Moise: It's kind of scary. You have to bend your knees to get onto it from a still moving surface.

[3:15] Katy Pfaffl: Because it's moving.

[3:16] Johanna Moise: Because the floor is moving. And sometimes counterclockwise. So sometimes I'm standing here.

[3:21] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[3:22] Johanna Moise: While the turntable's still going. So we're moving around it.

[3:25] Katy Pfaffl: And hop on and get right onto the turntable.

[3:28] Johanna Moise: Exactly. And now I'm moving with it.

[3:30] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[3:31] Johanna Moise: And then you're in the greatest city in the world.

[3:32] Katy Pfaffl: Okay.

[3:33] Johanna Moise: Exactly what's happening. Does it ever stop and go in the other direction?

[3:35] Katy Pfaffl: Absolutely.

[3:36] Johanna Moise: Sometimes one person will be going in this direction.

[3:40] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, while the others are going this way?

[3:42] Johanna Moise: The others are going the opposite way. Because there's two lanes?

[3:45] Katy Pfaffl: There's two circles.

[3:46] Johanna Moise: There's an inner and an outer donut.

[3:48] Katy Pfaffl: How fast are they moving?

[3:50] Johanna Moise: I feel like the fastest it moves is in...

[3:54] Johanna Moise: Or maybe it feels the fastest during the bullet lift.

[3:57] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, okay, yeah.

[3:58] Johanna Moise: Just because there's this image of like you're trying to stop a flying bullet. It stops turning during the bullet lift.

[4:04] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, because that's freeze time.

[4:05] Johanna Moise: But right before it.

[4:06] Katy Pfaffl: Right before it.

[4:07] Johanna Moise: Everything is like...

[4:09] Katy Pfaffl: Or it maybe goes the fastest in Schuyler Sisters when everyone's like, history is happening.

[4:15] Johanna Moise: Yeah. The outside is going one way, the inside is going the other. And everyone's just like having the best time in the greatest city in the world. Trademark.

[4:22] Katy Pfaffl: Amazing.

[4:23] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Well, so, okay, what's your origin story?

[4:28] Katy Pfaffl: How did we begin?

[4:29] Johanna Moise: How did we begin? So I grew up, my parents put me into dance because I was a little pigeon-toed and they wanted to just like turn my legs out.

[4:38] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[4:39] Johanna Moise: That'll do it.

[4:40] Katy Pfaffl: That'll do it. So I started ballet and I was like, I don't want to stop this. Like every other extracurricular I kind of dropped. Like I did soccer, I didn't have fun. Tennis is not that fun. Karate was fun and I'm picking it back up again right now.

[4:51] Johanna Moise: Oh, awesome.

[4:52] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. I want to know how to beat people up in movies.

[4:55] Johanna Moise: Yeah, yeah. Good skill.

[4:57] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, you know what I mean? So I started dancing very young and then I just never left it. And I was going to school actually to become a cardiothoracic surgeon. That was the plan.

[5:06] Johanna Moise: Oh my gosh.

[5:07] Katy Pfaffl: Wow, so you're...

[5:08] Johanna Moise: Bio major.

[5:09] Katy Pfaffl: You're no dummy.

[5:10] Johanna Moise: I hope not. That's a lot like dancing.

[5:12] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[5:13] Johanna Moise: Absolutely. Like they're the same, I think. They're like the same thing. There's a body involved.

[5:17] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. I mean it's really common to kind of go one or the other.

[5:19] Johanna Moise: Exactly.

[5:20] Katy Pfaffl: Right, right. So, but I was studying biology in college.

[5:23] Johanna Moise: Wait, where are we in the world?

[5:25] Katy Pfaffl: Florida.

[5:26] Johanna Moise: Oh, okay.

[5:27] Katy Pfaffl: Yes, I'm from Florida. I went to Florida International University. I was studying bio and I was also doing a regional production of Flashdance at the time.

[5:35] Johanna Moise: Okay.

[5:36] Katy Pfaffl: At like the theater down the road. And I thought that was like my end all be all. I was like, oh, I can still do theater. I can go to school and do medicine. This is amazing. I'll make my paycheck every week and then study and I can still have it for as long as I want. But they had some New York City transplants to come do the show. And they were like...

[5:54] Johanna Moise: You should really audition for Hamilton.

[5:56] Katy Pfaffl: I was like, what are you talking about? Like how do you just like audition for Hamilton? That doesn't make any sense. And I had no reps or anything like that.

[6:03] Johanna Moise: Right, right.

[6:04] Katy Pfaffl: And they were like, well, you go on playbill.com and you type in like performer and job and the New York state and you look and see if an ECC pops up. And if it does hop on a plane and just go.

[6:14] Johanna Moise: So I explained this to my mother and she's like, that doesn't sound right. And I was like, no, that's what they said. Like, and there's one coming up. So can I go? And she was like, but you're not union. Like you're explaining to me, you have to be part of the actors union to go to an equity chorus call. You're not equity. And I was like, no, no, no. But then you sign up on the non-ex sheet, Queen. 4am.

[6:35] Johanna Moise: I convinced my mom to let me fly up there. And I signed up on the sheet 4am and I was number nine. And we got into Pearl. I think it was pro 500 and we're sitting there and it's like packed. And then they were like, Hey guys, so we're not seeing non-union today.

[6:51] Katy Pfaffl: Oh no.

[6:52] Johanna Moise: And I had convinced my mother to like fly me from Florida for a day to audition for this show. And she was like, I was like, listen, like if you let me go, if it doesn't happen, it's not meant to be, I'm not supposed to do this. She was like, okay, whatever. So I flew. I didn't get seen. They're like, you can leave your headshots in a pile. I'm like, you know, but have a good day. We were released. I wept, hopped on the plane home the next day.

[7:15] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[7:16] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And then went back to like doing more regional theater at that same theater in Florida. And I was like, I'm going to just dance. Cause I love it. Like, and I just need to do it. And then eight months later, Lauren Harris, who used to work for Telsey, emailed me an invited dance call for Hamilton from my headshot that I left.

[7:36] Katy Pfaffl: That's amazing. Wow.

[7:37] Johanna Moise: So it paid off.

[7:39] Katy Pfaffl: Yes, I did. But again, my parents were like, how do we know this is a scam? This is like, we know nothing about this world.

[7:47] Johanna Moise: So they're not artists.

[7:48] Katy Pfaffl: No.

[7:49] Johanna Moise: Okay. My dad's a doctor. My mom is a nurse. All of my siblings are in the medical field, except for my oldest, he has autism. So we were all supposed to do medicine and I still very much love it anyway. I flew back and she let me fly back for two days this time. And it was excellent.

[8:06] Katy Pfaffl: Amazing.

[8:07] Johanna Moise: And I did the audition and I sang and then I flew home and then I got a call back for the following week. And she's like, okay, you, you can only fly back one more time. So if you get called back again, you have to do it while you're there. Like I'm not doing this again. So she, I was like, but if I tell them I'm from Florida, they won't give it to me. And she was like, well, that's the best you can have. So I went back and I was like, hi, like, I don't want to sound facetious or anything. But like, if I possibly get a call back, can I sing before I fly home? Like I'm from Florida. I'm sorry I lied. They're like, oh no, don't worry about it. Sure. And then I did before I went home. And I thought I bombed that audition, mind you.

[9:43] Katy Pfaffl: Did you sing much?

[9:44] Johanna Moise: Well, never. I wasn't trained vocally. I like sang in the shower. And then I was like on YouTube, like musical theater karaoke. And so like in my room, just like singing. I had the bug.

[9:56] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[9:57] Johanna Moise: As a teenager. Yeah. Like I was maybe like, maybe 14 when I was like, I want to do like drama in school. And my mom was like, no. And I was like, OK. My senior year of high school, actually, the advanced drama teacher, Miss Kidd, she saw our like talent show the year before. And she's like, why aren't you in my class? And I was like, because I didn't do it all four years. She was like, just audition. And I did and I got into her class. So she really helped like mold that.

[10:27] Katy Pfaffl: That's great.

[10:28] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I had some great mentors and teachers along the way. Well, so you did that callback. And then did they cast you right then?

[10:31] Johanna Moise: No, I did that callback in November. And then I got a call the week before my birthday in December that was like, hey, Queen, like are you still in school, right? And I was like, yeah. And they were like, well, if we have anything for you, you'll hear like the 14th, which is my birthday. I was like, oh my gosh. And then my birthday came and went. And they didn't call me.

[10:54] Katy Pfaffl: Jerk.

[10:55] Johanna Moise: I literally spent the afternoon crying in the parking lot of Publix and just like being like, OK, this really isn't meant to be. I get it. I understand. I'm done. And then January 1st, they called me and they were like, there's a spot in the Richard Rodgers. It starts January 7th.

[11:08] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[11:09] Johanna Moise: So on Broadway.

[11:10] Katy Pfaffl: So cool.

[11:11] Johanna Moise: Oh my gosh. What did you do? What did you do? What's your reaction?

[11:14] Johanna Moise: Well, I was on the phone. Who was it?

[11:18] Johanna Moise: It was Beth Rinoni. I was on the phone with her. She's like, hi, are you interested in vacation swinging? Like, it starts January 7th on Broadway. And I was like, yes, I would like that very much. And she was like, you can be excited. And I said, OK. This is so crazy. I was trying to be like professional, like so hard. And she was like, you can sound excited. And I was like, yeah, this is so crazy. Like, of course. I accepted the offer. And then I went home and I was like, I'm going to be on Broadway. And my parents were like, what are you talking about? They were like, you want to move to New York City for six months to be in Hamilton? What is Hamilton? They had no clue.

[11:35] Johanna Moise: Wow.

[11:36] Katy Pfaffl: So they let me go. And I switched majors from bio to neuropsych instead. So then I could do it online in the dressing room.

[11:42] Johanna Moise: Oh, wow.

[11:43] Katy Pfaffl: So you were doing that wow vacations?

[11:45] Johanna Moise: Wow vacations, me? Oh my gosh.

[11:47] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[11:48] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Because just swinging is intense.

[11:50] Katy Pfaffl: Yes.

[11:51] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Especially that show. So as a vacation swing, who were you swinging?

[11:55] Johanna Moise: At the time, it was basically like I was a regular swing. I learned every track in a lot of time. And I went on for everything.

[11:56] Johanna Moise: This is when Hamilton was like, boom. It was so huge, though. My dad was devastated. Because my whole entire life, he's like, that's my little doctor. We're going to do this together. And then I was like, no, I'm going to go be an artist. And he went to bed and was so just like, ugh. And then he went to work the next day and was like, yeah, my youngest girl, she wants to move to New York to do this Hamilton. And his friends were like, what? Can we get tickets? And then he comes home and he's like, yeah. He was like, oh, so this is a great honor. I was like, yeah, King. It is. I would love to do it. And they're like, oh, you can go. You have to. You can't quit school, though. So you have to continue your studies.

[12:03] Katy Pfaffl: And are these the ensembles? Were there any leads, too?

[12:05] Johanna Moise: No, just the ensembles.

[12:06] Katy Pfaffl: Just the ensembles.

[12:07] Johanna Moise: And wait, how many is it in the ensemble?

[12:08] Johanna Moise: Five.

[12:09] Katy Pfaffl: Five?

[12:10] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[12:11] Katy Pfaffl: Five ensemble tracks.

[12:12] Johanna Moise: Yes. So I learned all of those. I started with the bullet track. Miss Ariana DeBose, my queen.

[12:22] Johanna Moise: That is so cool.

[12:23] Katy Pfaffl: What date was that?

[12:25] Johanna Moise: February 16th, 2019.

[12:27] Katy Pfaffl: That's amazing. And your parents came?

[12:30] Johanna Moise: My parents came later on. My dad came. And my dad is so funny. We're Haitian. And at the time, Carvin's Laissant was in the show playing George Washington. He's a Haitian man. My dad saw the show and I was like, so what'd you think? Like, was I amazing? He's like, yeah, George Washington's Haitian. Yeah, he's like, I have to talk to him. And Carvin and I joke about it still. I'm like, yeah, yeah. He liked you better than me. Whatever. It's fine. Like, they've come around to it now, in their way. Like, my mom will be like, so I heard about self-taping. Do you do that?

[13:03] Katy Pfaffl: I do.

[13:04] Johanna Moise: She's like, cool, cool, cool. Because if I watched your tape, I would give you the job. I'm like, well, thank you. That's so nice.

[13:10] Katy Pfaffl: That's cool that they're discovering it with you.

[13:12] Johanna Moise: Yes, exactly. They're awesome.

[13:14] Katy Pfaffl: Then you obviously stayed.

[13:16] Johanna Moise: Yes.

[13:17] Katy Pfaffl: Just to keep things congruent, you were made union.

[13:21] Johanna Moise: Yes, I got my equity card from the show. I was only contracted for six months at that time. So I was like, wait, so now I can't do like regional theater anymore? Like, I was like, I can't do non-union productions anymore. What's going to happen to me? So I was like, freaked out for a second.

[13:36] Katy Pfaffl: You're like, you're a Broadway star.

[13:39] Johanna Moise: Well, but very real. I was like, no, but all the swings are back. Like, so I'm just kind of here living in New York City in this apartment that's going to be done in a month. And like my savings account. I was like, I don't know. And my mom was like, get time to bring yourself home. And I was like, no, I can't because I'm good. I hear like I got a manager during my time with Hamilton. And I was starting to audition for other stuff and like getting all the way to the end. And I was like, no, like, I don't think like I would get to the end if I wasn't good. So I think I should like, you know, get my bang for my buck and just like stay here. And, you know, through the end of the year. And if nothing happens, then sure, I got to do my dream. And then I'll go back to the original plan. And then somebody else had another medical leave. So Hamilton was like, come on back. And I said, nice. And I will.

[14:32] Katy Pfaffl: Super swinging.

[14:36] Johanna Moise: Super swinging.

[14:39] Katy Pfaffl: Well, let's talk about swingers. Obviously, you've never swung before.

[14:42] Johanna Moise: Never.

[14:42] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. So did you know what you were getting into?

[14:45] Johanna Moise: No. I just kind of said yes, because Hamilton was like my dream show.

[14:48] Katy Pfaffl: Sure.

[14:49] Johanna Moise: And it's a job on Broadway.

[14:50] Katy Pfaffl: Well, true.

[14:51] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And when she said vacation swing, were you like, wait, vacation?

[14:54] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I was very confused. But I was just like, Hamilton, Richard Rodgers, January 7th. And I was like, I'm going. That's all that mattered at the time, for sure.

[15:04] Katy Pfaffl: Yes. How did you discover what being a swing entailed?

[15:09] Johanna Moise: I had, I mean, great dance captains at the time. They just were like, we're just going to take it drop by drop. We're going to learn it slowly. And then you're going to figure out your way of mapping the show in your head. Which I guess it's easy for me at this point because of the way that I learn in general. Growing up, I was always in the AP classes during the day and then the dance classes at night. I feel like I've always had to split my brain that way. And I think that they saw that in me in some capacity. Or maybe they just needed a swing. And I just rose to the occasion, which is nice. And good for me. Not everybody can be a swing, so it's a special thing.

[15:45] Katy Pfaffl: But there is a sort of a commonality that there is a left and right brain for swings.

[15:49] Johanna Moise: Yeah, I love that you bring it up. No one's ever said that before, but I do think that's really true.

[15:53] Katy Pfaffl: I think it's true, too.

[15:54] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And I think in my life, I'm pretty, I wouldn't say I'm introverted. I've learned that I can be very much like, oh my gosh, party. But I do spend a lot of time just watching people and behavior, which is very interesting to me. It always has been. So I think that also helped.

[16:12] Katy Pfaffl: So that's part of it, is the observation. But what are the other components of how you do this?

[16:18] Johanna Moise: I think for me, I found Hamilton had, because the show was already running, they had an archival. So we were able to watch the show whenever. I'm really visually stimulated. And so I would spend a lot of time watching the show and also walking around on the stage as the different people. Then I was able to see everybody from her vantage point.

[16:39] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[16:40] Johanna Moise: So when I jumped to a new track, I was like, okay, I'm here, but that's because she's down there.

[16:44] Katy Pfaffl: Right.

[16:45] Johanna Moise: Yeah. So you established an anchor.

[16:47] Katy Pfaffl: Yes, exactly. And then it just kind of is like Tetris or chess.

[16:52] Johanna Moise: So the first time that you go on, is that the first time? Did you get a put in that day?

[16:57] Johanna Moise: I did.

[16:58] Katy Pfaffl: Or the day before?

[16:59] Johanna Moise: Hamilton was really great. My first track, I spent a whole entire month on it, and I learned it with three other people. Two other swings and one onstage person. It took us like three weeks to get through the material in studio. And then when we got to the theater, they did swing rehearsal with us on like a Thursday and a Friday. And then the following week, we did a put in with the onstage company. And then we did the show.

[17:23] Katy Pfaffl: And let's just explain what a put in rehearsal is.

[17:26] Johanna Moise: Yeah. So basically a put in for a swing or for anybody really, is you get to come to the theater, be on the stage in your costumes, doing your quick changes, your wig changes, if you have them, and doing the show with the onstage company that happens at night.

[17:39] Katy Pfaffl: So that's the first time you get to do it and then go on.

[17:41] Johanna Moise: Exactly. And is there microphones?

[17:44] Katy Pfaffl: Yes.

[17:44] Johanna Moise: And is there lights?

[17:45] Johanna Moise: Mics, lights, sound. It's like full show condition, except the people that are onstage don't have to like perform full out because they have a show to do that night. And you don't necessarily do your put in and then go into the show that evening. I think my put in happened the week before I debuted.

[17:59] Katy Pfaffl: Okay.

[18:00] Johanna Moise: And my debut was like a surprise. I moved to New York City from Florida and all my friends were like, where are you? You can't say anything. You can't pose anything until the day before your first performance. And they're still very much that.

[18:13] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. That's crazy.

[18:14] Johanna Moise: But actually, literally Lin-Manuel Miranda was at my put in and I still feel like that's like a joke. He wasn't there to watch it, but I had already established a relationship with some of the onstage company and the stage managers because as a swing, your stage managers are your like lifeline. And I'm like, it's right before Yorktown and I run into the office. I'm like, guys, I think I'm doing a great job. And literally like out of a movie, the man turns around in like a swivel chair and he's like, oh, so nice to meet you. I said zero things. I didn't talk to him at all. It was like, yeah, it was like, you're Johanna, right? Like you just came to us from high school. And I was just like, and I left.

Oh, no. And then I did Yorktown and then you come back to the stage manager office and then he was gone. And I was like, what? And it took me like five years to actually speak to him like a normal human being and like ask for my selfie. I got that in 2024. I'm like, you're the guy that makes my dreams come true. You wrote 21 Jump Street in the Heights and Hamilton, which I'm in right now. And you're just there.

[19:24] Katy Pfaffl: So cool, right?

[19:26] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I did my put in the week before.

[19:30] Katy Pfaffl: That's so cool. I still, I'm like, oh. And do you remember the feeling of your first show?

[19:34] Johanna Moise: I got to debut on a two show day.

[19:37] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, that's great.

[19:38] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And I did the first show and I just was like, I just have to like hit my marks and like make sure I'm on the right number. I wasn't like smiling. I was singing everything I was supposed to sing. It was about precision.

[19:48] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[19:48] Johanna Moise: I was just like, I just need to go where I need to go and not hit anybody else. Especially that show. The choreo is so precise. And also the show is just like, so if you miss something, you're already behind.

[19:58] Katy Pfaffl: Yep.

[19:59] Johanna Moise: So I just was like really like focused. And then it was over. And I was like, oh, and then we were bowing. Okay. I didn't die. Yeah. And I like went to dinner and then I went back and did the show at night. And the nighttime show, I was able to be like eyes up and like looking at everybody and.

[20:17] Katy Pfaffl: Taking it in.

[20:18] Johanna Moise: Yeah. You felt like, okay, I got one under my belt. Now I can like immerse into the story.

[20:23] Katy Pfaffl: Right. Which is of course, when something goes wrong.

[20:26] Johanna Moise: Of course. Did something go wrong?

[20:27] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, what happened?

[20:29] Johanna Moise: I mean, well, right. That time, my second show.

[20:33] Katy Pfaffl: Oh boy.

[20:34] Johanna Moise: Actually, it wasn't that bad. I think I just like made an entrance incorrectly. Like I was like, I'm supposed to be on the other side of the stage.

[20:41] Katy Pfaffl: Oh no.

[20:41] Johanna Moise: Oh. Oh, do I cross under? Do I go in? I'll call that. So I just like did like a big circle and just walked upstate. Like the scenes going on and I'm just like walking and cruising to get to the right side.

[20:53] Katy Pfaffl: In view of the audience.

[20:54] Johanna Moise: In view of the audience. Of course. Yeah. Because can you cross stage or do you have to go under the stage at the Hamilton Theatre?

[21:00] Katy Pfaffl: At the Richard Rogers, you have to go under because the alcove is visible.

[21:06] Johanna Moise: Like there's an archway.

[21:07] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, okay. Yeah, I was going to say, well, because I did Tarzan there and it's a pretty deep stage.

[21:13] Johanna Moise: Yes.

[21:14] Katy Pfaffl: It's pretty big.

[21:15] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I mean, we had to go, I was up above the house. Like Tarzan's way to fly and we are way up there and everything.

[21:22] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[21:22] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[21:22] Katy Pfaffl: Are you on the, by the way, are you on the sixth floor?

[21:25] Johanna Moise: Yep. Swing tower.

[21:27] Katy Pfaffl: Climb all those stairs.

[21:29] Johanna Moise: Well, those stairs are not a joke.

[21:30] Katy Pfaffl: They are not. And I think during the pandemic, I know these buildings have elevator traps. And we were away for 18 months, guys. They could have put in an elevator. Or I tell Brig, the company manager at Hamilton all the time. I'm like, you know, those like not the life alert commercials, but the one with the chair that goes up the stairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we should all pull our money together and get one.

[21:51] Johanna Moise: Yeah. You know how slow those are though?

[21:53] Katy Pfaffl: Yes.

[21:53] Johanna Moise: You would never take it. But, but on some days you're like, oh God, like one foot in front of the other. Oh man. How do I get to the sixth floor today? And then once I'm there, a mid-show swing on, you want me to come all the way down?

[22:06] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[22:06] Johanna Moise: And go up, yeah.

[22:08] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, yeah.

[22:08] Johanna Moise: Well, so in Hamilton, if I'm correct, I mean, the ensemble's on stage.

[22:12] Katy Pfaffl: The whole time.

[22:13] Johanna Moise: Almost all the 10 minutes.

[22:15] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[22:16] Johanna Moise: So that's also a very different show for an ensemble member.

[22:20] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[22:20] Johanna Moise: It is. So, wow.

[22:21] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. Especially as a swing, like, I mean, do you have to like think ahead and bring props out with you or do you have things like that or?

[22:28] Johanna Moise: I feel like for the most part, the set is very stripped down. Like it's all basically scaffolding and like you become the set and you're just like his thoughts and like his actions. And so that, like embodying all of that in that show is like such an honor and like so cool to be able to do whoever you are. And then also, it's like the best backstage crew, like ever. You're about to walk on stage, you're like,

[22:54] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, that's amazing.

[22:55] Johanna Moise: And everything's labeled.

[22:57] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[22:57] Johanna Moise: Which is nice for me. And we can like trail a bunch, so.

[23:00] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, that's good.

[23:01] Johanna Moise: Yeah, that's good. Follow around the person, trailing is following the person, that track you're going to go on for and see like, what is their backstage traffic? Who do they interact with? Where do they get changed? With who? Et cetera.

[23:10] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[23:11] Johanna Moise: Because that stuff is crazy important.

[23:12] Katy Pfaffl: So important because there's like a whole backstage show happening while the show is happening.

[23:16] Johanna Moise: Oh, yeah.

[23:17] Katy Pfaffl: And wigs and quick changes are also quick changes.

[23:20] Johanna Moise: Oh, my.

[23:21] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. Does each one of your tracks, do they wear different wigs?

[23:24] Johanna Moise: I was lucky because when I booked the show, I booked it with my braids in and Chuck Laponte, who did the wigs, he was like, you can just wear braids and the show will pay for it. So just get it done every like four or six weeks. The ensemble, if they're in a wig, they wear that wig the whole entire time.

[23:40] Katy Pfaffl: Well, I was thinking about the microphones because they're under your wig.

[23:44] Johanna Moise: Well, not at Hamilton. At Hamilton, they're inside the corset and then the wire goes in your head.

[23:51] Katy Pfaffl: Yes.

[23:51] Johanna Moise: So the mic is right here. In the middle of your forehead. At Death Becomes Her, I also cover Michelle Williams. It's crazy.

[24:00] Katy Pfaffl: It's crazy.

[24:00] Johanna Moise: Oh boy. Okay. We're going to talk about that.

[24:02] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. We'll get to that.

[24:44] Johanna Moise: Get a positive test, like, go home. But, like, otherwise we're gonna try and, like, do this show tonight. Because we still didn't know what it was. Right. Um, and, like, everybody's there, like, we're all, like, joking, like, oh my god, like, save your spit, whatever. Spin to the things. Literally, like, half of the building was positive. Oh boy. And then the next day, Broadway, like, shut down for real. And they're like, yeah, everybody, like, go home. And I'm grateful to, like, have such a lovely family. I was just able to be home with, like, my family for 18 months, but, like, just watching everything happen. And everybody's so anxious and scared all the time. It was crazy.

[25:21] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[25:21] Johanna Moise: And it also feels like you've lost so much time. Like, I, now I'm 26. I feel like I should be 24. I feel like I'm experienced. Because those were, like, lost years.

[25:30] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[25:31] Johanna Moise: Yeah, yeah. Well, we, the studio that you're in right now, I share a studio, for those of you listening, with an amazing Broadway massage therapist named Rich Malenga, who's incredible. And the two of us built this space. And we opened it on the day that Broadway shut down. So that morning, we were like, we're open! Yay! And, like, 5:30, we were like, just kidding.

[25:50] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[25:50] Katy Pfaffl: And it was a year and change.

[25:52] Johanna Moise: Literally.

[25:53] Katy Pfaffl: Before we could do anything. When Broadway started back up, and every, all of the Broadway performers had to go back into rehearsal. And people were like, how do I do this?

[26:01] Johanna Moise: Literally.

[26:04] Katy Pfaffl: Like, I haven't been singing loud. Like, people who stayed here were in their apartments. They were not singing. There were no places to dance. So you sort of take for granted what your, what shape your body is in when you're doing a show all the time.

[26:15] Johanna Moise: Absolutely.

[26:16] Katy Pfaffl: And when you really stop cold, what you have to do to your body to be able to get to be that athlete again.

[26:21] Johanna Moise: Yeah, and psychologically.

[26:22] Katy Pfaffl: And to do it quick. I feel like so much of singing, at least for me, when I'm, like, singing up there in the higher registers, I'm like, if I do not believe in myself that I can hit that note, it's not coming out. And I will not, I can't go into my chest voice like my body was just, like, not letting me.

[26:38] Johanna Moise: Yeah, well, that's a relationship, right? And I would have people come in here and they would sing loudly and cry. And they were like, why am I crying?

[26:44] Johanna Moise: Literally. It's because I haven't been loud.

[26:47] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, I've been loud for a year and a half.

[26:48] Johanna Moise: But that's a thing that I wanted to kind of point out is that, like, it is weird for a stage singer to not have a stage to sing on. Because a lot of people do sing in the shower and stuff, but that is not anywhere close to what it's like. And singing in your apartment, if you're going to sing stage volume in your apartment, the building is hearing you.

[27:10] Johanna Moise: And outside. And so, like, especially during quarantine. I would love to ask you, like, what it felt like to come back and what changed for you?

[27:20] Johanna Moise: Yeah, I think my first, like, iteration with the show pre-pandemic, I was very much like, all of my dreams are coming true. I have to be so perfect and amazing at all times. And, like, I'm super studious and I don't really talk to people because I'm kind of scared of them. Manny Gonzalez is looking me in the eye and that's crazy. I wanted to take everything in as much as possible and observe what was happening because it was like my dream was happening and I was living it at the same time.

[27:46] Katy Pfaffl: And then post-pandemic, I think, because so much life happened to so many people, like, everybody was affected by it.

[27:53] Johanna Moise: We were all able to step into a room together and have that knowledge of, like, we've all shifted in a way. And it created, I think, a new sense of deep respect for one another and, like, love and care for one another.

[28:08] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[28:08] Johanna Moise: And then we were able to work much more collaboratively because it wasn't, like, jumping onto an already moving train. It was kind of like, sure, let's start.

[28:16] Katy Pfaffl: Sure.

[28:17] Johanna Moise: You said you had a rehearsal process again.

[28:19] Johanna Moise: Yes, exactly. They sort of eased you back in.

[28:22] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, all together.

[28:23] Johanna Moise: From the beginning of the show, like the first, and, like, hearing that in a room again, too, was just, like...

[28:30] Katy Pfaffl: With just a piano.

[28:31] Johanna Moise: Yeah, it's crazy. And the whole cast.

[28:34] Katy Pfaffl: The whole entire cast.

[28:35] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And just, like, seeing everybody and hearing them sing again for the first time and allowing people to, like, try and fail to find their equilibrium again. Like, I just feel we all had to be super caring with one another.

[28:51] Katy Pfaffl: And I think, like, we're better for it in that aspect.

[28:54] Johanna Moise: Well, isn't that a beautiful sentiment right there?

[28:57] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[28:57] Johanna Moise: Like, can't we just be like that?

[28:59] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, well, yes. Because if we allow the space for everybody to be vulnerable and we care for each other in that space, then everybody gets to grow.

[29:06] Johanna Moise: Exactly. I think it's really, it shouldn't take a catastrophe to be able to help us remember that, but it so often does.

[29:13] Johanna Moise: And, yeah, and it did. It helped us remember that. So let's hold on to that. Super Swinging, Super Swinging.

[29:27] Johanna Moise: Everything feels like it's operating in, like, a scarcity kind of mindset where it's, like, there's one role that everybody's going for, and it can create this level of, I feel, unnecessary, like, chaos within ourselves, which then can be projected onto other people.

[29:44] Katy Pfaffl: And competition.

[29:45] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And I just feel like being able to do that all together again and be like, oh, we're safe here with one another. And also getting to create a really cool piece of art that we know will stand the test of time was really, really special. We had, like, wellness hours every morning where we would come in and, like, breathe with each other and her and find our way back.

[30:06] Katy Pfaffl: I really think it helped shake the cobwebs and the anxiety.

[30:09] Johanna Moise: Yeah, super cool.

[30:10] Katy Pfaffl: I love that. And those are things that I feel like as we become creators in our own right and we walk into more creative spaces, we can remember how effective those things are and how, you know, even if it's not an hour, even if it's 10 minutes of that, even if it's 20 minutes, just to do that sort of centering, grounding work together to just be going, I got to get rid of the city and actually be in this room.

[30:31] Johanna Moise: Absolutely.

[30:31] Katy Pfaffl: I have to step into the space and close that door.

[30:33] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[30:34] Johanna Moise: I need a conduit from one place to the next.

[30:36] Katy Pfaffl: Exactly.

[30:37] Katy Pfaffl: Would you say you're the pro of jumping in?

[30:39] Johanna Moise: Mid-show swing on the green.

[30:40] Katy Pfaffl: Mid-show?

[30:41] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I'll take, listen, I'm going to say that and I'm so sorry, but it's true.

[30:47] Johanna Moise: Yeah, that was a thing, especially post-pandemic. I feel because people were much more apt to listen to their bodies. There wasn't, like, a bunch of the show must go on, which I think was a lot of the culture pre-pandemic. Like, people were coming to work sick, coughing, hacking and doing the show, which is nuts to think about now.

[31:07] Katy Pfaffl: But yeah, I think there was a rise of, like, what is a swing? What is an understudy? Because it's happening a lot. Directors are going on stage with books in their hands to do the musicals.

[31:18] Johanna Moise: Oh, yeah.

[31:19] Katy Pfaffl: Because they had never actually ever done the show.

[31:22] Johanna Moise: Wow.

[31:22] Katy Pfaffl: Like, they just had to step in.

[31:24] Johanna Moise: Just holding the space, saying the words.

[31:26] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[31:26] Johanna Moise: What are these inserts in my playbill? Am I about to have a horrible time? I spent so much money. I want to see, like, the original people. Like, what, you know?

[31:34] Katy Pfaffl: So, yeah.

[31:36] Johanna Moise: That's why I love this, is so that people see, like, when you see that insert and you see that name, you know that that person is about to do some crazy shit.

[31:44] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[31:45] Johanna Moise: I'm like, it's about to be exciting for sure.

[31:47] Katy Pfaffl: Right, right. It's about to be exciting because they're going to go in there and they're going to do, like, their 450 percent.

[31:52] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[31:52] Katy Pfaffl: And it's also going to change the show for the better.

[31:54] Johanna Moise: So everybody's awake.

[31:56] Katy Pfaffl: Exactly.

[31:57] Johanna Moise: Wake everybody up again.

[31:59] Katy Pfaffl: Wait, so do any of those mid-show swing-ons come to mind where maybe you might have earned your gold star?

[32:05] Johanna Moise: One time, though, we were upstairs and we were like, we've had swing rehearsals. You know, we've had a week. Like, we're going to get frillios every day this week. We're going to get pantyhands. We're going to put a movie on the projector. We're all, like, stuffing our faces in my phone rings. Again. Pre-Yorktown, which is, so that's your stage manager.

[32:23] Katy Pfaffl: Yes.

[32:24] Johanna Moise: Stage manager calling me. Hey, Queen. Can you come down and do Woman 4 for Yorktown? Which Yorktown is, like, the big dance break in Act 1 of Hamilton. And you have to be just so light on your feet. And I felt stuffed to the brim with pretzels and frozen yogurt.

[32:41] Katy Pfaffl: And I was like, of course.

[32:42] Johanna Moise: You weren't warmed up?

[32:43] Johanna Moise: No, of course not. We, like, we had, again, the week was so long. And with swings, we have swing rehearsal at Hamilton every Thursday, Friday. We would run the show in different tracks to keep it fresh. So we were like, oh, we've earned this, like, hangout. And then my phone rang, and it came downstairs. And I'm doing the dance break. I'm sweating profusely. I feel like the cinnamon nuggets are coming out of my pores.

[33:07] Katy Pfaffl: Of course.

[33:07] Johanna Moise: And of course, my corset is, like, oh, to the max. Because gluten is not good for anybody.

[33:13] Katy Pfaffl: And not for dancing and singing.

[33:15] Johanna Moise: Not for dancing and singing in a corset. So when you typically, when you get that mid-show call, how much time is it before you actually have to go on?

[33:23] Johanna Moise: It, you know, depending on the point of the show, our goal as a swing is to get ready and be ready to be on stage as quick as possible so that the show doesn't have to stop. Especially, like, a show like Hamilton, which is, once you're starting, if you, like, miss a word, it just keeps going.

[33:40] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, it's literally on a metronome.

[33:42] Johanna Moise: It literally goes on. So it was, like, a chunk of time, like, three to four minutes that I had to, like, run downstairs, put on my thing, put on the red lip, do my hair, figure out who I was, and then, like, do X part.

[33:56] Katy Pfaffl: What about the microphone? Where, how did that get on your body and when?

[34:01] Johanna Moise: So, right, so you, Swing Tower is the sixth floor. So you run all the way down the stairs. On your way into the basement, depending on where, because you'll call your stage manager, you're like, where am I getting ready? Because where do I have to enter? It's going to be different each character, right?

[34:14] Johanna Moise: Different each time and different each person. In the Richard Rogers, the, like, basement area, you pass the sound booth on your way to the wig room, on your way to the stage management. So you get to the sound, you grab your mic, you go to the quick change booth, you put your mic on in the costume, put the costume on. You sit in wigs if you have to get wigged, if you don't have to get wigged. Sometimes, if you were wigged, but we didn't have time to put you in your wig, you just throw your hair into a ponytail.

[34:39] Katy Pfaffl: And there you go.

[34:39] Johanna Moise: And you just go on stage.

[34:41] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, yeah.

[34:41] Johanna Moise: And then you have intermission to, like, think about your life.

[34:44] Katy Pfaffl: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:45] Johanna Moise: But, like, in scenarios like that, it's very much, like, on your way down the stairs and on your way to make that entrance. People are just handing you things.

[34:53] Katy Pfaffl: Yes, and you're just throwing them on.

[34:54] Johanna Moise: And what's going through your mind? Are you thinking about the first thing you have to do on stage? Are you making... Are you going through the checklist?

[35:00] Johanna Moise: Well, the first ever time it happened, I just was like, Yorktown, the Battle of York... How does the Battle of Yorktown go? Who am I? What gun do I have? Where do I set this crate? What are those spikes?

[35:11] Katy Pfaffl: Yes, yeah, that's important.

[35:12] Johanna Moise: Yes, because if you set something wrong...

[35:14] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, my goodness, yeah.

[35:17] Johanna Moise: And then somebody doesn't have a gun, and we're all battling the Battle of Yorktown, and there's no firearm.

[35:23] Katy Pfaffl: So, no musket to be seen.

[35:25] Johanna Moise: Well, so, you know, as someone who's never done that before, the first few times, to the both of you, the first few times that you have that process, where it's a mid-show process, is someone guiding you through that? Is there someone going, hey, now you go here, now you go here, now you go here?

[35:40] Johanna Moise: Sometimes.

[35:41] Katy Pfaffl: Sometimes.

[35:42] Johanna Moise: I think it would be your dance captain if they're available at that moment in time.

[35:46] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, but if they're not, it's just kind of like, hey, girl.

[35:49] Johanna Moise: And ASM will usually be the one that will help you corral, make sure that you get your mic. Like, they're going to double check that you're doing your stuff. And they'll be there with you, and on call to whoever's waiting for you. Like, Cam is the PSM over there right now, and he'd be like, I'd be getting ready, and he'd have his headset on and being like, yeah, she's almost ready to enter in wing one.

[36:10] Katy Pfaffl: And then I'd make the entrance, and then it would be fine.

[36:12] Johanna Moise: And that's just so the PSM knows, like, do I have to hold the show?

[36:16] Katy Pfaffl: Exactly.

[36:16] Johanna Moise: Or can we just keep going?

[36:17] Katy Pfaffl: Or not, exactly.

[36:19] Johanna Moise: And the PSM and the ASM are?

[36:21] Johanna Moise: Production stage manager, who is the one who will come in to the beginning of a show's process, especially an original cast. They'll actually create the Bible that they call it, that all stage managers use to call the show.

[36:31] Katy Pfaffl: Which is all of the stage directions and all of the cues for everything and the whole thing.

[36:37] Johanna Moise: Everything, yeah.

[36:38] Johanna Moise: And then the ASM is assistant.

[36:41] Katy Pfaffl: Assistant stage manager.

[36:42] Johanna Moise: Yeah, so PSM and ASM.

[36:44] Katy Pfaffl: They're on their feet.

[36:45] Johanna Moise: They're on their feet all the time.

[36:46] Katy Pfaffl: It's like a really well-oiled machine.

[36:49] Johanna Moise: So did you decide to leave Hamilton to go on to Greener Pastures?

[36:53] Johanna Moise: How was that process? Or was it just like, all right, it's time?

[36:56] Johanna Moise: That was the scariest thing I had ever done in my whole entire life, I feel. I, basically, I was in Hamilton for so long.

[37:07] Johanna Moise: I got it in my head, as auditioning can make you get, I was like, oh, I'm only in this show because they haven't, like, taken a close look at me recently and seen that I suck. But I'm bad at it. Just imposter syndrome.

[37:20] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[37:21] Johanna Moise: Even though you've been in the show.

[37:24] Katy Pfaffl: Even though I've been in the show on Broadway for, I don't know, how many years.

[37:25] Johanna Moise: Very common.

[37:26] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[37:26] Johanna Moise: I had one bad audition and I was like, oh right, I'm not good at this and I'm only here because they need a swing and I'm occupying this space right now. So I started just going to everything because I need, it's like free class to me. I get to, like, meet new people and flex those muscles and those skills. And then I went to the ECC for Death Becomes Her and I ended up getting invited to the initial appointments that everybody else received an email for and then I got to a final callback and then they tagged on at the end of my callback, they're like, here's a song from the show that we'd love just to see if you can sing it and, like, you know, we'll practice with you for 10 minutes. You'll come in and do it and then we know you're just throwing it at you. It was Viola Van Horn's song, which opens the whole show, which is just a tiny little song.

[38:09] Katy Pfaffl: Just a tiny little ditty.

[38:10] Johanna Moise: She barely sings.

[38:12] Katy Pfaffl: She barely sings.

[38:13] Johanna Moise: It's really low.

[38:14] Katy Pfaffl: It's really low.

[38:15] Johanna Moise: Literally. And it was a step higher in Chicago times.

[38:19] Katy Pfaffl: Oh wow, really?

[38:20] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And again, I just was like in a mode of like, yeah, I'm auditioning. These people are really cool. I love this material and like work. I'm just going to like sing and then I'm going to leave. And then I got a call the next day that was like, hey, we're offering you Chicago and to cover Viola Van Horn. And I was like, what? I wasn't planning on like booking anything to like take me from my like safe haven place in my life.

[38:43] Katy Pfaffl: Right.

[38:44] Johanna Moise: And then I was like, wait, like this. I have been like journaling and manifesting that I get to do an original Broadway company that I get to cover a lead one day and it's happening and I think I need to just like ride the wave. And then I go to work and cam my PSM. I walked in and I was like, Kim, you booked something, didn't you? And I just bust out into tears, crying.

[39:07] Katy Pfaffl: Was it happy crying?

[39:09] Johanna Moise: It was the most mixed emotions ever.

[39:11] Katy Pfaffl: Right.

[39:12] Johanna Moise: Because it meant you were going to have to leave.

[39:13] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[39:14] Johanna Moise: And I was like, Kim, like what am I doing? I don't know. And he was like, well, you apply to take a leave of absence. Those are your next steps. You apply with company management. You'll email Brig. You'll email these people. We'll see what they say. And I was like, I emailed Beth Ramoni and I was like, I'm so sorry. And he was like, no, like we want all of you guys to like continue to just be amazing and do things. Of course you've got something else. And of course you can have this time. Go to Chicago, come back and then if it transfers, we can have another conversation.

[39:45] Katy Pfaffl: Which it then did.

[39:46] Johanna Moise: So how long were you in Chicago?

[39:48] Katy Pfaffl: Two months, I think.

[39:49] Johanna Moise: Okay.

[39:50] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[39:51] Johanna Moise: And I did double duty for like two weeks.

[39:52] Katy Pfaffl: Nice.

[39:53] Johanna Moise: Yeah. All right. Well, mainly because I was like, I can't let go yet. I still want to do the show. So I would be rehearsing Death Becomes Her in the morning, doing Hamilton at night up until we flew to Chicago and did the show out there. And I came back and I was with the show again, I think for like three months. And then they told us that Death Becomes Her was transferring to Broadway and they gave me my offer. And then I had to make the decision to be like, okay, I'm going to go, which again was so hard, like so, so difficult because you're with, you're with a group of people that again become like family so quickly. They know your ins and outs, they know your good days and your bad days.

And then you're jumping off into this new adventure where you're like, I'm not quite sure I can do this. And again, the imposter syndrome, you're like, sure. I booked the cover of Iola Van Horn, but only because probably XYZ. So it was just, it was a lot of like up and down, but again, they were so supportive and, and I was able to like jump into a new show where it's also like, just great. Like I just feel very lucky, the opportunities that I've had.

[41:01] Katy Pfaffl: Well, and being a part of an original cast now, the three of us have all done it. So that's a really, really special process because it's constantly changing every day, every day.

[41:13] Johanna Moise: And that, I think there's something as performers that we just like really love about that because it feels the most like play where you'll try something and you'll do it and you'll be like, yeah, that didn't work. And the next day it's an entirely new song or an entirely new choreograph or something.

[41:27] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[41:28] Johanna Moise: And it's just so cool to see the whole process in action. I remember like with, uh, with Idiot, there was like a whole like flying set piece with a number that like got all the way built all the way on stage, all the way trying to get everybody into this little frame and it just didn't work.

[41:43] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[41:44] Johanna Moise: And then they cut it.

[41:45] Katy Pfaffl: Yep.

[41:46] Johanna Moise: And they're like, you've just spent so many millions of dollars.

[41:48] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[41:49] Johanna Moise: It's crazy. And it changes so fast. And what was really cool about this is that the writers, Julia Madison and Noel Carey of the music, it was their Broadway debut as well. And so I was hearing music that I am their hugest fan.

[42:02] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, it's so good.

[42:04] Johanna Moise: It's so hilarious. It's so good. But you would come into rehearsal and like, you hear a song, you'd be like, amazing. And then the next day it'd be completely different. And you're like, wait, what happened? Oh, but this is also amazing. Like it was a lot of that and the choreography changing and the writing changing so many pages every day.

[42:19] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[42:20] Johanna Moise: So I would only write in pencil or sometimes I would just like show up and not write anything at all.

[42:24] Katy Pfaffl: Because you knew it was going to change.

[42:26] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[42:27] Katy Pfaffl: Well, so that's so exciting.

[42:29] Johanna Moise: And there you are again with some Broadway legends.

[42:31] Katy Pfaffl: Oh my gosh.

[42:32] Johanna Moise: Megan Hilty, Jennifer Simard, Christopher Sieber, Michelle Williams.

[42:36] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[42:37] Johanna Moise: Like, are you kidding? I literally, the thing is, she doesn't even know this. The thing is, I used to tweet Megan Hilty every day. I was a huge fan of Smash. I was like, Ivy Lynn, please punch me in the face. You know what I mean? I was like a huge, huge fan of that woman. I saw Jennifer in Once Upon a One More Time and I'd never seen anything like it. Christopher Sieber is the funniest person. And then Michelle Williams, Destiny's Child.

[43:03] Katy Pfaffl: Did that just blow your mind?

[43:04] Johanna Moise: Oh my gosh. I just was like, what, what am I doing right now? Like I drove off a little too close to the sun for real. Like that doesn't make any sense. And also they're all so generous and kind where I'm like, you don't have to be, like do you know who you are? Like, you don't have to be like, you could really be so not nice to me and I'd be like, well, you know what? You're Megan Hilty. It's fine. But just like the most generous people ever. Such huge advocates of all of us. Anytime, like anything felt a little bit like weird. They were always there for us. Like, okay, what can I do to like help you out? How can I use my voice to like help you in this moment? Do you need my help? What's going on? And then you don't expect them to also just like crack a joke next to you. Like you're like, you were trying to make me laugh. That's crazy.

[43:50] Katy Pfaffl: Like specifically Michelle Williams.

[43:53] Johanna Moise: I don't even know if people know how funny that was.

[43:55] Katy Pfaffl: Is she really funny?

[43:56] Johanna Moise: She's like the most opulent, gorgeous person and like just like pop star. Like I just was like, wow, she's so gorgeous. I can't even talk to her. Half the time the jokes are coming from that woman's mouth.

[44:07] Katy Pfaffl: Really?

[44:08] Johanna Moise: Yes. She's like so funny.

[44:10] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, so good.

[44:11] Johanna Moise: That's amazing.

[44:12] Katy Pfaffl: Well, and how has it been being an understudy?

[44:16] Johanna Moise: Being an understudy and singing those songs and being that role.

[44:20] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[44:21] Johanna Moise: And have you gone on? And like, what's that like?

[44:23] Johanna Moise: Not yet. I've yet to go on. I think I may this summer.

[44:26] Katy Pfaffl: Okay.

[44:27] Johanna Moise: We'll see if I can go on. Super Swinging. That has been, again, the whole imposter syndrome of I came into the industry dancer first, unquote. And a person who loves to sing, but didn't really know my voice, couldn't really find my voice. And one of the first times I ever interacted with a voice teacher was on Hamilton where Ian Weinberg, he's the head of music right now. And he was like, hey, I want you to go hang out with this woman. And I was like, you're right. They stay alive. They sound so bad. But it was one of my first ever times working with a vocal teacher and learning my voice and learning what I was capable of. And so this show is a sing in a way that is so different to what I'm used to.

[45:25] Katy Pfaffl: And exposed.

[45:26] Johanna Moise: And exposed. Because Michelle Viola stands on zero and just like...

[45:31] Katy Pfaffl: So learning all of that and learning the lines and trying to put my own version on how that goes and working with our associate director, Mark Myers, and also singing the songs in my room, being terrified of cracking. Because it's so high.

[45:49] Katy Pfaffl: So high.

[45:50] Johanna Moise: So high. You have to have unwavering belief in yourself because if you don't believe in yourself, who's going to?

[45:57] Katy Pfaffl: That's so real.

[45:58] Johanna Moise: It's so real. Especially in a role like that where she knows exactly who she is. She's super confident. That's something I strive for in my life. So it's cool to then step into that. She walks down these gorgeous stairs and there's music and smoke and she lands and she just says, you're welcome. And that's one of her first spoken lines in the show. And you're just like...

[46:17] Katy Pfaffl: Well, right.

[46:18] Johanna Moise: Yes. But that's a gift to you because you can just remember if you feel any little piece of trying to prove something, that's you. And Viola doesn't. And it's really easy to just go...

[46:29] Katy Pfaffl: When I was St. Jimmy and I was the god of addiction and had nothing to prove to anyone, I would tell everyone else, enjoy my show.

[46:40] Johanna Moise: There you go.

[46:41] Katy Pfaffl: As you should.

[46:42] Johanna Moise: You could just walk up to everybody and be like, you're welcome.

[46:44] Katy Pfaffl: You're welcome. Enjoy my show.

[46:46] Johanna Moise: You're so welcome. If you want.

[46:48] Katy Pfaffl: Well, have you spent much time in those costumes? Because her costumes are also...

[46:52] Johanna Moise: Gorgeous.

[46:53] Katy Pfaffl: They look heavy. Are they heavy?

[46:55] Johanna Moise: Paul Tazewell designed them and he designed all of the costumes and they're the most glamorous, gorgeous things I've ever seen. Just like opulent and sparkly and purple and heavy and weighted and just stunning. Everything about the show design is incredible.

[47:10] Katy Pfaffl: Is it scary to even just put on something like that?

[47:12] Johanna Moise: Absolutely.

[47:13] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[47:14] Johanna Moise: Because you're just like, I mean, come see the show to know what I'm talking about. But the way she enters, there's a lot of like, not guesswork. There's like a lot of people that travel with the coat. You come with three people holding the coat.

[47:24] Katy Pfaffl: Right.

[47:27] Johanna Moise: Make sure the coat is just right. Because the coat is the statement. So have you had a lot of rehearsal for it so far?

[47:33] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[47:34] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[47:35] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[47:36] Johanna Moise: We're in rehearsal again, like swinging. We have like swing rehearsal where you've just got a new standby in. So we've been rehearsing her into the show and I've been playing viola in rehearsal with her sometimes. I'm definitely very familiar with it. And I, you know, in the world of swinging and understudying, it could be that tomorrow I show up to work.

[47:54] Katy Pfaffl: And there you go.

[47:55] Johanna Moise: Yeah.

[47:56] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. You know what I mean?

[47:58] Johanna Moise: So yeah.

[47:59] Katy Pfaffl: What's it like backstage there?

[48:00] Johanna Moise: Backstage is there's no crossover. Well, there is a crossover, but you can only use it at certain times because things are flying in and out. So there's a lot of like going underneath. And the first day we went underneath in the Lunt, so confusing. And then like, because you're down there and you're like, where do I go? It's very maze like down there. Whereas Hamilton, I feel like is like one flow.

[48:22] Katy Pfaffl: There's a straight shot.

[48:23] Johanna Moise: There's a straight shot. The Lunt is like edges and corners and like side rooms.

[48:28] Katy Pfaffl: Like in Severance here.

[48:29] Johanna Moise: Yes. It literally feels like the severed floor of Lumen. They say that there's a ghost.

[48:33] Katy Pfaffl: I felt it.

[48:35] Johanna Moise: I try to keep my head down. I go to work and go home. I don't want to hear about the ghost.

[48:41] Katy Pfaffl: I don't want to see him.

[48:42] Johanna Moise: Love to him.

[48:43] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, do you know any stories?

[48:45] Johanna Moise: Has anyone told you? Apparently he's a little boy.

[48:47] Katy Pfaffl: Oh gosh.

[48:49] Johanna Moise: I can't. I can't. I can't.

[48:52] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah.

[48:53] Johanna Moise: But Mikey Graceffa, he like warms up in this like back corner by the showers. He's like, yeah, open the door and there's his.

[48:59] Katy Pfaffl: I said, and I won't be doing that.

[49:01] Johanna Moise: Still haven't seen it. And I don't plan to. Not I haven't seen anything, but like we have these like little lights in our room. These like little glass bulbs. And one day one of them just like exploded out of nowhere. It was just one. And I was like, what did, what did I do? I didn't do anything. I'm scared. The theater that we toured in when I was with Rent and Idiot. We were both in the same theater in Chicago. And it was the theater that started the doors of the house.

[49:29] Johanna Moise: Opening outwards, because back in the day, they opened inwards or the opposite way. So there was a fire on stage, and like the whole audience died.

[49:40] Katy Pfaffl: Correct. And when I was in Rent, we were doing the first number, you know, Rent, and as soon as everything kicked on...

[49:49] Johanna Moise: And so then that happened. And then when I was in Idiot, St. Jimmy's sitting up on the TV upstage, and downstage of me is the bed, and Johnny is playing the song to... What's her name? That's a weird character's name. And he's playing the song to her. And I'm focusing on that, and I saw a green-ish, translucent orb moving towards Johnny, my buddy Van, and all of a sudden, Van goes like, look towards it. Whoa, he felt it. He felt it too. And then he didn't see it, and it dissipated as soon as he looked away. And afterwards, I asked him, but he thought his mic went out. And it was one of those moments where the ASM is coming out and handing you a handheld. That's what he felt was happening. He felt like there was a person handed to him. Yeah, so it was there.

[50:46] Katy Pfaffl: Well, have you had any mid-show swing-ons or anything like this with Death Becomes Her?

[50:50] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Yeah, I did. I did a mid-show swing-on for the Essence of the Vile track, and it was like right before this number called Live to Serve, which is in Act 2, which is also right before this big number called The Chase, which is very geometric. And that's one of those numbers that if you don't know where you're going, it's super unsafe because the set pieces are moving, the lights are flashing, and everybody's running at each other. It's like a huge chase section. And I was swung on, and I was like, all right, well, let's cross our fingers. And me and the dance captain, Amy Quambach, were both on, I believe. And she was on for one person, and I was swung on for the other person. And then in the middle of The Chase, we switched people. Before we did it, she was like, you're not going to be this person. There's going to be a hole over there. And I was coming down the stairs preparing one thing, and then I got down there. Oh, this is when you're not on stage yet.

[51:48] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, not on stage yet. So you're thinking you're going to be this track.

[51:52] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I was like, from Live to Serve onwards, I am this track. And then I got down there, and they were like, actually, in order for the picture to look nicer, we're going to eliminate this person. So you're not going to be this person. I was like, cool. And I'm backstage, looking to the heavens, trying to figure out. Doing the math in your head. How am I going to do it? Everybody else's show is still going on, right? The backstage happenings are happening. Everyone's getting into costume, and they're cracking jokes, and doing whatever. And I'm sitting there, looking like I'm in the white room. I'm focusing. But I have a crazy, not a crazy focus phase, but when I'm focused, people often think I'm really sad.

And so that comes with a lot of like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm fine. But I can't talk to you right now. Yeah, you're like, don't have to be. I'm like, I just need a second. Do it. And then I'm like, okay, cool. What's going on? Jokes. Jokes. Laughter.

[53:03] Katy Pfaffl: Well, we've had a couple swings talking about that, about how people who aren't swings don't understand the stress of that moment for you.

[53:09] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And so they're always coming up and trying to sort of like, be in your face. Or sometimes, because I'm at work, I tend to be like super jovial and just like, oh my god, everything's super fun. So when I'm not that way, people are like, we have to let her smile! Right? Yeah. So it's all coming out of a place of like super love and big hearts. But I'm just like, no, I just really need to like disappear for half a moment. I'll be with you in a second. Nobody got hurt. That's great.

[53:22] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. Yeah. Have you had anything scary on that show? Or have you been pretty lucky?

[53:29] Johanna Moise: I think I've been pretty lucky. But again, there's so many moving parts. And like a bunch of, not a bunch of close calls, but like near the beginning, especially in tech, when we were figuring out what flies when and what moves when, like everyone just had to be like super alert. And if you weren't, there's luckily like amazing crew that'll like push you out of the way. Literally, actually, two days ago, I was on a rehearsal for somebody and I'm like standing there just like watching what's happening on stage and the lights are coming in, like on me and I'm just like, underneath them, I just get shoved out of the way by Chris DeLuise, one of our props guys backstage. I continued the show and then I went to him and I was like, I just have to tell you, I'm so sorry. I promise I won't stand under things anymore. I'm sorry. I'm just making sure you're safe. So yeah.

[54:13] Katy Pfaffl: Well, thank God for him.

[54:18] Johanna Moise: Yeah, we've got like a great, great backstage crew. That could have been a concussion pretty sickly.

[54:22] Katy Pfaffl: Oh yeah. Cause when you're in rehearsal, you don't have that show mentality.

[54:26] Johanna Moise: Absolutely. In the show you're like, okay, hyper aware, this is a show, whatever. But when you're in rehearsal, there's pauses, there's times, you know, so usually there's no moving things.

[54:31] Katy Pfaffl: Right. So you're just sort of standing there thinking about your lunch or trying to figure out what you're doing.

[54:35] Johanna Moise: Exactly. And this, again, like Hamilton is like, the stage is like scaffolding. Sure. Some things move, but like, it's very like, you know exactly when that's about to happen. And like, otherwise it's pretty bare or like the turntables moving, but this show, like everything is moving all the time. Like there's like set pieces coming in, lights going in and out, tabs coming in and out the floor, the tracks.

[54:57] Katy Pfaffl: Wow. Does this one have any moving?

[55:01] Johanna Moise: This one has tracks in the floor. So like things move on and off and things go like left and right and up and down.

[55:06] Katy Pfaffl: Got it. Okay. When did you start with it here? When did it open?

[55:09] Johanna Moise: We opened November 21st.

[55:15] Katy Pfaffl: Okay. So right before Christmas.

[55:15] Johanna Moise: Yeah. So you did that whole season.

[55:21] Katy Pfaffl: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Did you guys do the Macy's?

[55:25] Johanna Moise: We did. We did. We did. It was raining and our wigs, they have purple in them and we had to wear shower caps because if it got wet, the purple would like run. Oh man. Yeah. And also those gorgeous costumes. I felt so badly because it's Thanksgiving day and you're there so bright and early on the buses that bring you to Herald Spirit. It's like gorgeous and amazing. But then the costumes get drenched and the costume crew has to like dry clean and fix the costumes in order to have a show the next day. And it's everybody's Thanksgiving. I was like, oh my gosh, like you guys have to go back to the theater and like make sure these wigs are dry, make sure our clothes are dry all before like 6 PM when you want to go see your family. It's wild.

[56:01] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. It's crazy. And it's so, I think it's so beautiful that you notice that, you know how many performers don't ever think about that. So it's really wonderful that you actually do recognize that it's everybody that's really putting in that work.

[56:10] Johanna Moise: It's truly like you can't, you can't do a show without every single person there.

[56:16] Katy Pfaffl: Well, also like I was going to ask you, like, did you ever know what the wig dryers were?

[56:21] Johanna Moise: No. I never knew that either and they're really cool, right? Yes. It's like the cabinet open, it's just like blasting hot air. And there's like a bunch of mannequin heads.

[56:28] Katy Pfaffl: A bunch of mannequin heads. No way. I didn't know there was such a thing. This is a Chuck LaPonte show, I believe, and he also did the wigs for Hamilton and so both teams are like hand doing every single lace, everything. It's just incredible.

[56:42] Johanna Moise: That's incredible. There's so much work that goes into like a Broadway show. Now wait, you didn't have to wear a wig for Hamilton. Do you have to wear anything for Death Becomes Her?

[56:46] Johanna Moise: I do. I am wigged in this show, which was a super like exciting conversation for me from the get-go because I moved to the city with my braids and that was like my thing. And then I was like, oh, like I wonder if they'd be like amenable to me doing a protective style that would fit underneath the wig. But my friend was like, yeah, but you never know if you don't ask. And then I asked and they were like, yeah, for sure. Just like come with however you think you're going to have your hair throughout the process and we'll fit your bubble like that. Which again, like super accommodating.

[57:16] Katy Pfaffl: And also, but isn't that great that you learn that you can ask?

[57:20] Johanna Moise: Yeah, well that. Because you're so, there's so many things that you're like, no, I can't. I couldn't possibly. But like you truly never know. The worst thing they could say is no. As a swing, you also do feel like you have less options to ask about things. You feel like you should just do what you're told.

[57:37] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. And I don't, I don't like, I don't know if it's like this, the type of person you are to swing, but there's like a weird level of, for me at least, like a sense of duty and a sense of like, I'm here to make sure that the show keeps going and that's my place. But I think there is a realization in the years right now that are happening where it's like, yes, I am that, but I am also a person. I also deserve to take up some space.

[58:02] Johanna Moise: Yeah. And I think that's the beautiful evolution of this. And that's one of the reasons we wanted to do this podcast is so people can meet people like you and know that you're a beautiful person who, you know, deserves all of those things.

[58:10] Katy Pfaffl: And as you look ahead, would you swing again? Or would you want to step?

[58:16] Johanna Moise: See, I don't, this is, this is the question, isn't it? I think that I'm good at swinging. I think it would be really interesting and awesome to do an onstage track every single night, eight shows a week, because that's a different level of stamina mentally and physically. I also think it'd be really cool to be a principal in a Broadway show. And I also find TV film really riveting. So I'm kind of just open to any and all things.

[58:45] Katy Pfaffl: Cool. Yeah. I'm just waiting for, I don't know, Hugh Jackman or someone like that to come to a show and be like, I'm going to be your celebrity swing. I'm going to cover these three leads and the audience is never going to know which one I am. How fun would that be for everyone? Producers, here's a new way to make your money.

[58:59] Johanna Moise: It is a special type of person to want to be a swing, to enjoy it, to find the thrill of it, to have the brain for it. But okay. You today, to young swings out there, beginners, like what's your advice? What's a couple of things that you could say to them to help make this ride a little easier?

[59:15] Johanna Moise: Oh, I'd say that number one, you got the job because you're really good at what you do. And it doesn't take away from the performer that you are. It doesn't make you any less than that you're off stage. You can do all the things that you do and not everybody can do that or has like the temperament for it. So that's a win. I'd say be as observant as possible. I kind of feel that way about life in general too. Like there's just so much to learn always. And I don't think you should ever feel like you're stopping learning. If you feel like you're stopping learning, then you should probably jump and start doing something else. But sit back and observe and just like be kind to people. I don't know. I just feel like people love to work with people who are kind, but also it just makes the day go by faster. It makes like the shows feel better. I think it makes creative thought happen easier too.

[1:00:20] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's wonderful advice. And I think, I think especially, you know, just remembering that you have worth always.

[1:00:27] Johanna Moise: Yeah. Whether you're a swing or you're anything, but not letting a job take that away because of imposter syndrome or a title or any of those things, but always just remembering like you got the job.

[1:00:37] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. And so when you're there, you own it. And then when you're on stage, floor it. Right.

[1:00:45] Johanna Moise: Well, how can people find you?

[1:00:51] Johanna Moise: I'm on Instagram at Johanna period Moise and also TikTok Johanna Moise. Same. Yeah. Same. No dot on TikTok. Okay. Great. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

[1:00:58] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. And will you post like, if you get to go on, will people be able to find out?

[1:01:02] Johanna Moise: Yes, I will. I usually do on my stories. I'm just like, Hey, in the play today. Great. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, it's so wonderful meeting you and hanging with you. I can't wait to watch the journey of your career and like to be cheering you on.

[1:01:11] Johanna Moise: Yeah. I can't wait to see Death Becomes Her again.

[1:01:28] Katy Pfaffl: Thanks so much for staying with us all the way to the end of the episode. Make sure to tune into our next episode coming out in a few weeks. Check us out on Instagram at Super Swings Broadway. And if there's any Super Swings out there that you think we should interview, please drop into our DMs and let us know. And we will reach out to them because we want to have as many Super Swings out there in the spotlight as we possibly can. Thanks so much.