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[0:00] Unknown speaker: Sensor, stage manager. We need you on stage tonight. Go to dressing room 1 for costumes and lights.

[0:13] Unknown speaker: Super Swing Swing.

[0:18] Unknown speaker: If you can understand me speaking now, as well as anyone can in real life, you've set a good volume. Thank you for riding with real...

[0:26] Unknown speaker: Super Swing Swing.

[0:30] Unknown speaker: Hey, be advised, sounds are coming from all around.

[0:35] Unknown speaker: Super Swing Swing.

[0:40] Unknown speaker: There you are. Welcome to Rialto. Follow me, the show's about to start. Keep your headphones on for the most immersive experience.

[0:50] Unknown speaker: Super Swing Swing.

[0:57] Katy Pfaffl: Hi, I'm your host, Katy Pfaffl.

[0:59] Joshua Kobak: And I'm your co-host, Joshua Kobak.

[1:01] Katy Pfaffl: We're grateful that you're here with us to learn more about what makes a swing super.

[1:07] Katy Pfaffl: Okay, so we are here right now with one of my favorite humans. Would you like to tell us your name?

[1:13] Alicia Albright: My name is Alicia Albright.

[1:15] Joshua Kobak: And Alicia Albright is, you know, her name echoes through the Broadway halls of fame. Everybody knows Alicia and loves Alicia.

[1:22] Katy Pfaffl: You're one of the heart people in this industry.

[1:26] Alicia Albright: That's very kind.

[1:27] Katy Pfaffl: And Alicia and I have been working together for a while. I don't even know how many years, but...

[1:33] Alicia Albright: Since 2018, probably.

[1:35] Katy Pfaffl: Since 2018, yeah. So before BC, before COVID.

[1:39] Alicia Albright: When the dinosaurs were...

[1:41] Katy Pfaffl: Right, right, right.

[1:43] Katy Pfaffl: So I've had the privilege of working with you through different shows.

[1:47] Alicia Albright: Yes.

[1:48] Katy Pfaffl: So would you like to tell us a little bit about what you're doing these days and what you've been doing?

[1:53] Alicia Albright: Yes. Let's see.

[1:55] Alicia Albright: Most recently...

[1:57] Alicia Albright: So I was...

[1:59] Alicia Albright: For my career on Broadway, I was...

[2:01] Alicia Albright: The two big shows I was a part of was Wicked.

[2:04] Alicia Albright: And where I was the dance captain swing for many, many years.

[2:08] Alicia Albright: And then I decided to leave that show and I originated Frozen on Broadway as a swing.

[2:13] Alicia Albright: And was in that until COVID happened and Frozen Broadway closed down.

[2:18] Alicia Albright: And then when shows started coming back, I went back to Wicked as a dance captain swing for seven months.

[2:24] Alicia Albright: Then I went on the Frozen tour for three months.

[2:26] Alicia Albright: And then for almost two years now, I've been hopping back and forth, vacation swinging both shows simultaneously.

[2:33] Joshua Kobak: Oh, man.

[2:34] Alicia Albright: And it's sadly just coming to an end.

[2:37] Joshua Kobak: Is it?

[2:38] Alicia Albright: I'm going to crack as Frozen, the tour closes in two weeks.

[2:41] Joshua Kobak: I would imagine that actually keeps it fresh.

[2:44] Alicia Albright: Oh, yeah.

[2:45] Alicia Albright: But also it keeps it crazy.

[2:46] Joshua Kobak: Yes.

[2:47] Alicia Albright: Yeah, because that's a lot of information to keep in your head.

[2:50] Alicia Albright: Each show is so different.

[2:52] Alicia Albright: And I'm just so happy to be there.

[2:55] Alicia Albright: And especially when I...

[2:56] Alicia Albright: Sometimes I've gone back to back in one week.

[2:58] Alicia Albright: Like I did a Tuesday at Wicked and I literally flew to...

[3:01] Alicia Albright: I think it was Kentucky on Wednesday and did Frozen that night.

[3:04] Joshua Kobak: Oh, my gosh.

[3:06] Alicia Albright: And so, you know, because I know the show is really...

[3:09] Alicia Albright: I know the show is very well.

[3:11] Alicia Albright: But you still have to look at your notes and it's still stressful.

[3:14] Alicia Albright: You still get that swing tummy ajda, which is the worst.

[3:19] Alicia Albright: But at the same time, especially Wicked, because I've been a part of Wicked in and out for 16 years.

[3:25] Alicia Albright: I just went back a couple of days ago and I hadn't been there for three months.

[3:30] Alicia Albright: And so the opening number, when they're like, look, it's Glinda.

[3:34] Alicia Albright: It's so real because I know it, but it's so fresh because I haven't been there.

[3:38] Alicia Albright: And I've been in a completely different world, having a completely different life.

[3:41] Alicia Albright: So when I come back in, it's just like the first time.

[3:46] Alicia Albright: And I always want to remember exactly how that feels.

[3:49] Alicia Albright: Because no matter what, when you're in a show, you can forget.

[3:52] Alicia Albright: And you're trying to have that feeling, but you've done it eight times already that week or whatever.

[3:57] Alicia Albright: And lately I feel that the beauty and the freshness and the wonder is still there when I pop back and forth.

[4:05] Joshua Kobak: Well, and I think that's just such a wonderful thing to talk about.

[4:08] Joshua Kobak: For people who've never experienced being in a show or being on a Broadway stage,

[4:13] Joshua Kobak: you know, all of us have had that moment.

[4:16] Joshua Kobak: What is that feeling for you?

[4:19] Joshua Kobak: What is the magic of the first time?

[4:22] Alicia Albright: Is it anxiety? Is it excitement?

[4:24] Alicia Albright: It's all the things.

[4:27] Alicia Albright: I've had different feelings in different phases of my life of what that means.

[4:31] Alicia Albright: And I think I feel so honored to get to do what I love.

[4:37] Alicia Albright: And I get to tell stories that change people and make them think.

[4:42] Alicia Albright: And we're just a part, and I'm just in service to whatever story it is I'm a part of.

[4:49] Alicia Albright: And I just, it feels beyond grateful.

[4:53] Alicia Albright: You know, as the overarching thing, that I get to get paid well to do it.

[4:57] Alicia Albright: You know, when you just do it for fun as a kid.

[5:00] Joshua Kobak: Sure, sure.

[5:01] Alicia Albright: I get paid.

[5:02] Alicia Albright: I can be a grown-up and do that.

[5:03] Alicia Albright: And I'm still doing it.

[5:05] Alicia Albright: And like 20 years later, I've been doing it for 20 years.

[5:08] Alicia Albright: It's just because you can lose sight of that when you start to work, which is a whole other conversation.

[5:13] Alicia Albright: But when you start to work as an actor, it's really exciting.

[5:15] Alicia Albright: And then you can lose the plot a little bit.

[5:18] Alicia Albright: And there's days you're tired.

[5:19] Alicia Albright: There's days you're stressed.

[5:20] Alicia Albright: There's days it's hard to go to work or you have something happening in your life.

[5:24] Alicia Albright: Or your body.

[5:25] Alicia Albright: Or your body or your voice.

[5:27] Alicia Albright: And it's challenging to remember that.

[5:31] Alicia Albright: But ultimately, like, because if you've had times in between or you've had survival jobs or other jobs that you dreamed in life,

[5:37] Alicia Albright: like, even those days when it's hard to get there, it's so much better than those options.

[5:41] Joshua Kobak: Right, right.

[5:42] Alicia Albright: You know, like I was not a very good waiter.

[5:45] Alicia Albright: I would have given up.

[5:48] Joshua Kobak: But, you know, as a swing also, it's scary.

[5:54] Joshua Kobak: Yeah, so tell me your experience, the feeling as a swing of going on for the first time.

[5:59] Alicia Albright: Oh, Lord.

[6:00] Alicia Albright: So whether you're a swing in a new show, which I've had the experience like at Frozen,

[6:05] Alicia Albright: there's a brand new Broadway show or really anywhere you rehearse together.

[6:10] Alicia Albright: And then you're sitting in the corner furiously taking notes as they change the numbers every single day.

[6:18] Alicia Albright: So for Frozen, and there was an ensemble of 20.

[6:22] Alicia Albright: That's just the ensemble.

[6:24] Joshua Kobak: Wow.

[6:25] Alicia Albright: But for us, you just sit in the corner and write stuff down again and again.

[6:27] Alicia Albright: And they would change the numbers every single day.

[6:30] Alicia Albright: And at 10, when the rehearsal started, if a person was one minute late on the subway, they'd be like,

[6:35] Alicia Albright: Alicia, can you just pop in?

[6:37] Alicia Albright: It was a British team.

[6:38] Alicia Albright: And you had to know it.

[6:41] Alicia Albright: None of them knew it.

[6:42] Alicia Albright: Nobody knew what they were doing.

[6:43] Alicia Albright: But you had to know what that person who wasn't there was doing.

[6:45] Alicia Albright: And my stomach hurt for like two months.

[6:47] Alicia Albright: And that's like remembering what they did yesterday, which was different from two days before that.

[6:51] Joshua Kobak: Yes.

[6:52] Alicia Albright: Right.

[6:53] Alicia Albright: And I think they almost ask you because they don't really know.

[6:55] Joshua Kobak: Yeah, they don't know either.

[6:56] Alicia Albright: Nobody knows.

[6:57] Alicia Albright: And so that feeling is, to be honest, is terrifying.

[7:01] Alicia Albright: And there was one time in Frozen, and this is not even performance, it's just rehearsal,

[7:06] Alicia Albright: that one of the versions of Fixer Upper, they had so many beautiful versions, they got cut.

[7:11] Alicia Albright: There's this gorgeous version that lasted an afternoon.

[7:14] Alicia Albright: That was these trios that spoke out from this center crystal, these contemporary, modern dance trios

[7:21] Alicia Albright: with all this partnering that was stunning.

[7:23] Alicia Albright: And then I also covered the lead role in that number.

[7:26] Alicia Albright: So the one person I wasn't watching that day was her.

[7:29] Alicia Albright: Because I was watching all this crazy dance choreography.

[7:32] Alicia Albright: And then next thing you knew, she was in the bathroom vomiting.

[7:35] Alicia Albright: And they were like, Felicia, your turn.

[7:36] Alicia Albright: And I was like, I hadn't watched her.

[7:39] Alicia Albright: And somehow, and the whole creative team was there.

[7:41] Alicia Albright: And somehow, bless the universe, I knew it.

[7:45] Joshua Kobak: Wow.

[7:46] Alicia Albright: And I did it.

[7:47] Alicia Albright: Wow.

[7:48] Alicia Albright: I don't know how.

[7:49] Alicia Albright: Wow.

[7:50] Alicia Albright: It's still this day.

[7:51] Alicia Albright: I think we absorb more than we give ourselves credit for.

[7:52] Joshua Kobak: Yes, that's what I was wondering.

[7:53] Alicia Albright: Because, so also in that whole process, if any of you listening get this chance,

[7:56] Alicia Albright: it's hard because you need to look at the whole picture of everyone you cover.

[8:00] Alicia Albright: And they'll also say, these are your first covers and these are your second covers.

[8:03] Alicia Albright: Just look at everyone.

[8:04] Alicia Albright: Because inevitably, the one that you don't cover is going to be the first person you go in front.

[8:10] Alicia Albright: And you just, and I think what I notice now sometimes with people,

[8:14] Alicia Albright: I'm also, I've been a dance captain, is they'll wait to be taught.

[8:18] Alicia Albright: And the more agency you have to help yourself and feel prepared and do the work on your own

[8:25] Alicia Albright: and learn how your brain, because everyone's brain is so beautifully different and intricate,

[8:29] Alicia Albright: how they take in information both musically and physically and spatially.

[8:36] Alicia Albright: So it's a wider thing of learning about yourself as a human being

[8:40] Alicia Albright: and how best to set yourself up for success.

[8:43] Alicia Albright: Because then in those moments of panic when you're on, you feel prepared.

[8:47] Joshua Kobak: Right.

[8:48] Alicia Albright: And you're not waiting for someone because ultimately you're the one out there.

[8:51] Joshua Kobak: Right.

[8:52] Alicia Albright: So it's like, how can I?

[8:53] Alicia Albright: And when you're out there, you can't blame someone for not teaching you.

[8:56] Alicia Albright: Teaching you because you're the one out there.

[8:57] Joshua Kobak: Right.

[8:58] Alicia Albright: So the more you can, and it is, it's expanding your awareness to look at single people as well as a whole.

[9:07] Alicia Albright: Because sometimes even if you know the picture, you can either,

[9:11] Alicia Albright: sometimes in my brain it'll go like process of elimination.

[9:15] Alicia Albright: Like I'm standing in one person's spot and sometimes I forget what they do next.

[9:19] Alicia Albright: I'll be like, the person next to me does this and that person does this and that person.

[9:22] Alicia Albright: So therefore I do this, let's go.

[9:24] Joshua Kobak: Exactly.

[9:25] Joshua Kobak: Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

[9:26] Alicia Albright: I often recall it like being a swing is like thinking of a show as like a clock or a watch.

[9:32] Alicia Albright: And every track has its own cog.

[9:35] Joshua Kobak: It's the cog.

[9:37] Alicia Albright: This one's that cog.

[9:38] Alicia Albright: This one's that jewel.

[9:40] Joshua Kobak: Oh, I want to be the jewel.

[9:42] Alicia Albright: You are the jewel.

[9:43] Alicia Albright: And then same exact thing.

[9:47] Alicia Albright: Like, well, I know that this guy's doing that, that guy's doing this, this person's doing that.

[9:51] Alicia Albright: So it's got to be this.

[9:52] Joshua Kobak: Yes.

[9:53] Alicia Albright: Yeah, exactly.

[9:54] Alicia Albright: And the beauty in that is it's never about you.

[9:57] Joshua Kobak: No.

[9:58] Alicia Albright: Yes.

[9:59] Alicia Albright: You know what I mean?

[10:00] Alicia Albright: Because sometimes no matter what, it's a habit as a human, we make it all about us.

[10:04] Alicia Albright: And whether you're a principal or a person who's on stage every day, you can get really,

[10:09] Joshua Kobak: I don't mean to sound mean about this, but precious about your performance.

[10:14] Alicia Albright: But no performance, not even, I even dare to say not even a one-person show.

[10:19] Alicia Albright: It's only about them.

[10:21] Alicia Albright: Because they couldn't do it without the musical director.

[10:23] Alicia Albright: Without the lighting designer.

[10:24] Alicia Albright: Like, it's this beautiful union of everyone, even the people in the building who take out the trash,

[10:30] Alicia Albright: the people who take the tickets, the people who are in the wings helping you change.

[10:34] Alicia Albright: Everyone is a part of the storytelling.

[10:37] Alicia Albright: When I first started swinging, the story I told myself was I wasn't good enough to be on stage every day.

[10:53] Alicia Albright: So there's a lot of ideas of, well, if you swing, it's like that.

[10:59] Alicia Albright: You're not good enough to get the actual role.

[11:01] Alicia Albright: Or because that's something that you do early in your career and not later in your career.

[11:05] Alicia Albright: There's all these myths.

[11:06] Joshua Kobak: Well, and it's even not something that you're even telling yourself.

[11:09] Alicia Albright: Because so many people don't know what a swing actually is and what the job entails,

[11:15] Alicia Albright: they view it in that same way.

[11:18] Alicia Albright: They're almost there.

[11:20] Alicia Albright: They're almost the lead, but not yet.

[11:22] Alicia Albright: Even though they cover it and they go on for four weeks at a time when the person's on vacation or whatever.

[11:28] Joshua Kobak: Well, and I think because there's not a lot of education about what a swing is,

[11:32] Alicia Albright: what we realize now, which is when you're in casting, if I'm casting a show and I'm on the other side of the table,

[11:38] Alicia Albright: we all know that we're casting the swings because they're the most talented.

[11:43] Alicia Albright: They're actually the people who can go and do this role and that role and that role and that role.

[11:48] Alicia Albright: So we will value a swing much more.

[11:53] Alicia Albright: And that's sometimes I think how people can get stuck being swings if they want to move on,

[11:58] Alicia Albright: because they become so valuable.

[12:00] Alicia Albright: It's like, oh, my gosh, this person is so talented that they can swing.

[12:03] Alicia Albright: So I don't want to put them in a role because there's plenty of people who can just do a role.

[12:07] Alicia Albright: But this person is more.

[12:08] Alicia Albright: My final callback for Frozen to be the original cast, I had 12 callbacks, which was great.

[12:14] Joshua Kobak: Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[12:17] Alicia Albright: And the last callback, the 12th one, was at the theater on 42nd that's way west.

[12:24] Alicia Albright: And there was a snowstorm.

[12:27] Alicia Albright: Elsa came.

[12:29] Alicia Albright: And I was there like super early and it was all principals and me for the ensemble.

[12:34] Alicia Albright: I was like, what?

[12:35] Alicia Albright: And then they and it was Stephen Arimus, who had also done Wicked and All Shook Up,

[12:39] Alicia Albright: which is another show that I swing and dance captained on the tour.

[12:43] Alicia Albright: And so they knew me and they finally were like, oh, my gosh, you're here again.

[12:48] Alicia Albright: I was like, yes, I am.

[12:50] Alicia Albright: And they were like, say whatever you want.

[12:52] Alicia Albright: I could sing whatever I wanted and it was on a stage, so that felt really like a performance. And they vocalized me as high as I could go just to, again, because for people who are unaware, as a swing, you also sing every vocal part of the person that you go on for. Whether it's soprano, second soprano, alto, whatever. So again, you need to be completely versatile. Completely versatile. And then it was sweet. They went, okay, we know you can do everything here. Just leave. And I was like, okay, okay. And then they chatted with me. The casting director was like, would you swing? And I was trying to leave singing. And I was like, I would really love a spot in the ensemble. I don't know if I want to swing anymore.

And they were like, but the team needs to know they have someone they can depend on. Yeah. And that's what I got. And that's it. And it says exactly that. But that was the first time in my life that that had been said to me, that they knew me, they needed someone they could trust, that they knew could do it, that they weren't worried about.

[13:47] We need to talk about this more because we need people to understand that swings are so valuable and often overlooked in their value. Just a minute ago, I was thinking, even ensemble members, like I was in a new show. And as the swing, they contracted me to be first cover for one of the leads. And someone in the ensemble was also an understudy of that same lead. And I remember the first day when they posted that on the board over at the 42nd Street Studios, I came off the elevator and all the cast was around the message delineating who was doing what. And the actor in the ensemble got really, really upset because they assumed that since they were in the ensemble and I was not on stage with them every night, that I was less.

And then that puts you in an awkward position. But then you have to realize, that's not mine. That's theirs. I have to focus on doing my job. So they're going to figure it out. I'm going to go to rehearse myself while you pity. You have a pity party in the morning. But I felt the same in some of my first jobs swinging. I felt like less than. It kind of touched on my own insecurity of that. Yeah, it's so silly.

[15:08] What I started to learn in my environment, we had a cast of 37. Almost everybody had gone to Juilliard and Yale and all of these schools. It was a play. I felt very insecure that I was just a singer, songwriter and a musical theater person coming into this environment with people who had lots of prestigious credits and all those things. And it's the same thing in that space. I had to realize that you can't compare yourself to anybody else. You can't really compete with anybody. They're them. You're you. You have your own experience. They have their own experience. And they're sitting over there, sitting in their own insecurities, just like you are. And they may not be the same, but they're there.

So if we don't lean into that, if we lean into like, I know that I'm a person and I'm here in my life and you're a person and you're there in your life. All that competitive stuff doesn't need to stick. You don't have to play the game. The game will never not be there, but you don't have to play.

[16:08] You know, it's so funny because I had this big shift in my life. I had Dance Captain Swing, Wicked for about seven years straight. Three different companies. And I just got to a point where I was really kind of broken inside. And so I left and I went on this big journey of self-discovery again. And I'm also a yogi and a meditator and a mindfulness teacher. And I worked for a company in California called Transcendence Theatre Company that I felt like honored all the parts of me. It was the first time I had been honored as a dancer, as a singer, as a spiritual person. I felt like when I danced and I was on stage, it was literally my heart. And people would say, I see your heart when you're up there.

And I would just be like, that's my intention. And it changed me because I felt so seen and it didn't matter what I was doing. So when I came back and I went back to Wicked afterwards and then Frozen, I felt like I know that the most important thing I offer in any space is my heart. So it's so different for me now. And then also the knowing and the remembrance that it's okay if it's not perfect every time. Because I used to think there's a hard turning sequence in Frozen. And you have a ribbon connected to a maple that wraps around your head. It's just terrible. But you got some struggles and you got a big old dress. And I would think if I didn't nail the turns that I was suddenly a bad dancer.

When I'm like, you just were not on your leg that day. It doesn't mean you're a bad dancer. It was just like epiphany I had literally like six months ago of like, stop being so hard on yourself. Because A, you got thrown on for this track last minute. You don't do it every night. So it's not comfortable in your body. But even if it is comfortable in your body, if you don't do it perfect once, it doesn't mean that takes away from your talent. Like it's so simple, but I was like still falling for that. But it's so deep. It's so deep in it. It's super deep. And that makes it live theater. Like, I mean, I think the dawn of A.I. is going to start to bring out more appreciation for the flaws. For imperfections.

Because then they're going to know, oh my God, this is definitely real. This is not A.I. No one would have made A.I. No A.I. would have done that. But I think there's something even better. That's been my favorite journey has been this one.

[18:25] Well, and I think let's go back to that. So what, in your swinging history, are there any moments that you remember being really significant in your life? Like that was terrifying or that was invigorating or? Or you fell on your face. Or you fell on your head. I have lots of falling ones. Yeah. My favorite one that's now like, I just talked about this last night actually with the dresser that this happened with that I'm famous in the Wicked world, quote unquote, because of this big mess up. So there's these characters in Wicked called the Flatheads, which they're in one short day for a hot second. They look like big clowns that come out and weeble wobble around. And their head pops out and swings around.

They're only on stage for a few minutes. So there's three. And on stage swing is the center Flathead. Super featured. And you've had a break for a while. So you could wear whatever you wanted to underneath it. Okay. Because you're wearing big striped socks and clown shoes that are actually made at a clown shoe maker that are twice the size of your feet. And then that's all that's seen. And then you step into these big pants and there's a huge belly around you that they dip up. And then you're strapped into the top and they have a harness. And then they put the top on. It's a huge head that you can only see through the chin. And then there's a pole in front of your face. So later you are going to pop that head up and that gets elongated.

They're kind of like whack-a-moles in the book. So the head pops up a good four, five, six feet. Like maybe not six, but like as long as your arms, as long as your arms, maybe two or three. 17 feet. And then you swing it around. So anyway, so all that's in. And as you're stepping in, they have to zip the bottom to the top. And they're not universal zippers. So I'm getting in and it's a really heavy material. And the dresser shows this way. I won't say where it's from. And I was like, what? Because you can't, I can't see. I'm already strapped in. It's like, it's the wrong pants. She's like, I know, we'll safety pin it. And I was like, I don't think this is a good idea because these pants are really heavy.

And then the music started and I was like, gotta go. So I held the front shut, held the other hand with the pole because it hits you in the face and it's no fun. And you have to move really silly. High knees as you run out on stage. So you're holding up your pants. I'm holding up my pants. And I forgot to say the most important part of the story is I'm wearing bright pink. Because you can wear whatever you want. Whatever I wanted. Right, okay. And I was wearing bright pink. So I'm going out. And they start to pop all the safety pins on the side. So the flaps on the side are just flapping open. And they're a good like foot or two away from me. That's how wide the belly is. And I was like, oh dear.

And so I get to the center featured position. And eventually I have to kick myself behind. Then let go of the pants and pop them all the way up to the floor with my hands. So I do it. And the pants fall all the way to the ground. Center stage Broadway. Bright pink. Clear mess up. And then, so the whole, and the whole cast. And we had just changed. We're on a short day. So the whole creative team was there. And so the whole cast is watching the show. We're going to show behind us are flapping. The audience starts laughing. Like it's really bad. Oh really? And then I go to get the pants up. But the pole went on the wrong side of the pants. But I couldn't tell. So every time I tried to pull the pants up, they wouldn't go up.

And I didn't know. And I was just stuck. Center stage. These pink elbows like flapping like a chicken inside of a clown. And luckily, because I was dancing, I had taught people and done it so much. I knew without seeing. If I went directly to the left, I could go into the wing. Because the whole cast was about to rush downstage. Oh my gosh. So I just like chicken. I was like and like went off into the wing and died laughing. I would have like younger me would have stopped. Stopped. Yeah. Sobbing, embarrassed, mortified. Right. And I was like, you have a choice at this moment to do that. Or this is really funny. Yeah. Like, come on. You just have a story for life. Just a story for life. You know that.

And so then because of me, we were all black now. Underneath. And I say, you're welcome. And the PSM that had been at the show for 16 years, just retired. And we always do like an intermission, a little interview with the people who are leaving the show. And what are some of your favorite memories? And this guy asked her, in your 16 years at Wicked on Broadway, what was the worst thing that ever happened on stage? And she said, when Alicia Alvarez fell down as a Flathead. And I was like, I'm saving. So yeah, it was a real like. There's no beyond. Like that was, I think I made the audience's day.

[23:07] Yeah. That's not AI. No, definitely not. No, I think people go to theater for those moments. They live for that. And so now I'm honored that I got to do that for them. Well, and I also think it's really good as a performer because you didn't die. Yeah. And I think that's important. And I always say that, no doubt. And the show didn't stop. The show didn't stop. No one was hurt. You lived to do another day. Yeah, and it's a great story. I've fallen on my face numerous times. And now I just am like, oh, that's another super fun story. And if you have to go home and cry for a second because you're so embarrassed, you let yourself do that. And then you get over it. And then you let go. You let it go. Yeah, you let it go. Because again, like you're saying, it's not the summation of you as a performer.

[24:02] When you first got cast in Frozen as a swing, did you know what you were going to be doing? I knew I was swinging and I knew I was covering two roles.

[24:13] Alicia Albright: The mother of young Anna and Elsa, the queen, and Balda, who sings Fixer Upper. So I knew of all those 12 callbacks, I did a lot of callbacks for those two roles.

[24:24] Joshua Kobak: And then how many people did you end up swinging with Frozen?

[24:27] Alicia Albright: 10 ensemble female. And then it ended up being like 14 because sometimes within a show, if there's a small featured part and it's covered internally, like so as a swing, if I would go on for this featured part, I would do that whole person's track because they have their featured part. And then they go back to the ensemble. So often ensemble people will have featured moments. But also someone else from the ensemble could cover the featured moment. So therefore, you do this kind of split track of the swing that's on, would do all the ensemble moments. And then when the person pops into that part, they would switch to doing their ensemble moment. So it ends up being extra tracks in a way that are split tracks kind of. So it was like 14.

[25:13] Joshua Kobak: And how many have you swung in Wicked?

[25:17] Alicia Albright: Wicked, there's nine women in the ensemble. And then I was in Nessa Rose understudy for a while.

[25:22] Joshua Kobak: Wow.

[25:24] Alicia Albright: So you had 24 tracks in two shows.

[25:28] Joshua Kobak: So when you've been going back and forth, you have all of that in your head, switching gears.

[25:33] Alicia Albright: Wow. That's incredible. And you just said that you're having to go out to the tour sometimes too.

[25:39] Joshua Kobak: For Frozen.

[25:40] Alicia Albright: For Frozen. So how does that function when you get?

[25:44] Alicia Albright: Do you keep a go bag? I think this is a great time to talk about what it is to be a Vacation Swing. Can you explain that? Lately, I'll say the Local Swings are the people who are with the show full time. Depending on the contracts of shows, Wicked right now has three male identifying and three female identifying in the Broadway company that are always there. But as a Vacation Swing, you are not permanently anywhere. You are hired to come in when a person is on vacation, when a person has COVID, when a person is injured, or if there's a bunch of injuries or stuff going on. So some shows like Wicked will sometimes call me day of in New York. Wow. Right. The quickest turnaround I've ever had was 11:30 for a two o'clock matinee.

And I was going to the dermatologist. Oh my gosh. I was checking in and they were like, we need you in the show. And I was like, I think I have some lipstick in my backpack because I didn't have anything. Yeah. Now both shows. So you need a go bag. I need a go bag. Right. Wicked, I have a bin that has some stuff and at Frozen I did too. Oh cool. So they'll do it and it's happened to me numerous times that it'll be day of. And, but the Frozen tour, it would be planned most of the time. Like this person's taking a vacation or this person is injured and out for three weeks. And as a vacation swing, sometimes you know who you're going to be, which is like a luxury as a swing. I'm not going to go be that person for two weeks.

How fun is that? Like, cause I had never been a track for a long period of time and it's so much fun. And, um, it's all fun. But like, you know, when I first joined the tour, I was one person for three months. And so I was like, why do people complain? Cause this is fun and I'm not stressed every day. I know what I'm doing. Cause I find the harder part is energetically certain tracks. I can't eat a lot before the show. If it's a really hard physical track or the warmup I do or the vocal warmup I do or the physical warmup I do, or is different for each track and for each show. Cause it, each show calls for different things. Like Frozen is, has a lot more kicks and fan kicks and stuff like that than Wicked does.

Um, so, but for me, even with shows I've been with, like Wicked's more my comfort zone cause I've done it for so long, but still I have each. So I have all the tools that I need. Each track, each track is written out, um, with their onstage and offstage stuff. I hate making my track sheets cause it takes me so long cause I'm so detailed, but it's like a, it's like a, it's like it sears it into me. I've really watched that person and I've written down all their details like, and then, but sometimes I also need the visual cues. So I'll just speed through the video of the number I have. So my brain is kind of sparked visually and spatially. So now I think a couple of Swings and Dance Captains made this thing called Stage Rite and Rite is, um, spelled W-R-I-T-E. So it's an app.

I almost brought my iPad today. It's an actual app that Swings created. So it's amazing. You can upload your stage dimensions and like the, like the picture of your stage from above, and then they have all these things you can put like circles for people or, or squares. They can be like different colors. Like the principles could be this color and the male identifying could be blue and the female identifying could be yellow or, or whatever. So you can make all the formations. You can even put set pieces in there and you can just swipe through it. And like, if you need to look at a number and you want to look at formations, you can literally, after you've done the painstaking work of putting it all in, you can swipe through it and see an overhead view of the formation changing, changing.

And you can highlight your person. I was just thinking that would be so great on a brand new show because you can do that. And then it's like, Oh, I just need to edit this thing. And you can literally keep it clean looking. Exactly. Like back in my day. When you have to write a new paper. So now, yeah, because also long-term shows things shift over time or they all change a number and then you just move a little person. It's amazing. So, so I have those three tools that help my brain. The one thing is you had asked me earlier also, what's some of the hardships of it? The hardest part, I think sometimes is that agita of like, who am I going to be today? The whole day you're a little like on edge.

Like, am I on tonight? Am I not? What can I eat? Who do I need to look at? And I feel this kind of panic until I know, and then I've looked, I've done the work, then I'm fine. Like I'll do five tracks at once. I've done that before. Like I've, so many people have been out, you'll have a split track show where you're, and that I love. I'm like my brain nailed it, you know, but I have to do the work to feel confident. If I don't, I feel really insecure. I feel panicky. I feel anxious. And that's the one thing when I'm, when I know I'm doing a track for a couple of weeks, I'm like, Ooh, yeah. I just heard and Juliet does not have any vacation swings yet. So that means their local swings are working so hard because they're doing split track shows all the time.

Cause there's no one to come in and help them because also to get a vacation swing, the company has to have enough money and time to make that person a set of costumes. So when you are that swing, right. And you're doing it, do you feel that pressure of, I can't get sick? Yes. I have to be. Thank you for bringing that up. Right. That's that's the, because I think everybody else is like, well, I can call out, but when you're the person who saves the day, how does it feel? It's it is, it feels, that feels really challenging because you might have a day where you maybe need a day or a mental health day, because luckily that is much more accepted now that if you're having a beat, like you need a beat because you're responsible for the energy you bring into the space.

And if you're not going to bring good energy, then maybe take a moment. But I do as a swing, I feel like I don't have that luxury. Also, this just happened on tour. The tour is ending. So all these people left for auditions and I had a bunch of auditions that I could, and I chose not to go, even though there were shows I really wanted to be considered for, because I was like, I'm the backup. If everyone else seems to go, I cannot go. So then I felt like I missed out on an opportunity because also I was like, I care so deeply about what this show and what I do. And that's my job. So it does. That's a hard one. Cause you do feel like, and COVID was something that actually helped you. You had to call out, you know, you didn't have a choice.

Even if you were the swing or not. I was back up there when Omicron happened, I was dance captaining and swinging wicked. I was putting two new girls in and it had just gone through the male ensemble and we were all scared all the time. And then I was the first person. It was the day of their put in these two people that I consider my babies. And then I was the first person. Then like eight of us got it. But I was the first one. And I, I cried so much because I felt like I was letting them down. I was letting these two people down that needed me to put them into the show. And then there was nothing I could do, but in a way it helped me because I had no choice because when it's not COVID, sometimes you make yourself go and you shouldn't, but COVID now makes us, we have to stay home.

So it helps me be like, take care of yourself. And there's nothing I can do. I have to go be home. Right. Well, and I think that is not something that's ever talked about internally. I fully experienced the same thing and understand exactly what you're talking about when you realize you are the, you're, you're the last stop and if you don't, if you're out, then the show might, might not be, not go that, not go on that night and then that, you know, and then it's a huge responsibility that makes me feel sick even thinking about it, you know, and no one, but nobody said it to us, no one said it to me. No, because I can't say that. They can't say it, but you feel it because you're the person that's always has to be ready to go and always saves the day.

And there is no one beyond us, right. You know, which is why now that Wicked uses vacation swings. Now I'm the backup of the backup, you know what I mean? So that's why day of they call me and if I'm available, I'm more than happy so that that swing can, you know, so that's a, that's a really and, and Wicked has that luxury because they've been open for 20 years. And so a lot of vacation swings are people just like me who have been in the show and aren't anymore, especially the beauty of being a swing and a long running show when you leave, if you leave on good terms, you can become the vacation swing that they call upon when stuff happens, which is a great thing to have nowadays that I would think make the local swings, the locals feel better.

I don't know if they've named it for themselves, but I think it's good to be talking about all of this, because this is not a conversation that I think happens much because even talking about it, my shoulders feel heavy in that like weight, that beautiful swings feel that no one understands. And then, and then you go and do all the stressful work. And most of the time, no one even ever says good job. Bingo. Right. You know, and, but it's also good if no one knows you did it notices. That means you did a really good job because you nailed it and you didn't step on anyone and nobody died. But also it's, they call it the thankless job, because if you did it really well, nobody says good job and no one even notices.

Right, right. And you've gone through an emotional journey of like, I'm in stress and my toe hurts. And 24 seven taking care of your body and being aware of what you're eating because it will affect you. You grow more as a human. I think when you're swinging, because you're faced with a lot of human things. Insecurities, frustrations, microaggressions that people say to you, if you're one inch off that they don't even realize they're saying to you, or like a lift is weird and they blame you. Like there's a lot of when everything is a two way street. So there's a lot of things you face as a swing that just really help you grow as a human being. So I feel like every time I've swung, I've grown so much more as a human and that I'm grateful for.

Everyone listening to this, who's going to see a show, a swing is putting themselves out there for the betterment of your experience. And that night, if you're on stage and you're a performer, the swings are there for the betterment of you and your show. And I think we should really work to never take that for granted. And all it takes is one. Oh my gosh, you are great. Acknowledgement. One thing. And that is not hard for us to do as human beings to see someone to just go, wow, this person just did this and gave their all to help me have a better experience. So we have the opportunity to do that for people. We need to do that for people because it takes nothing from us. It gives everything to them.

And actually it gives us something because when we see the beautiful, the tears that you have right now from this, it matters. Yeah. Right. And it, and it changes us too. Yeah. Your kindness matters. And people, when I was younger, people would say, you know, be kind because you don't know who's behind the table. Who's watching. Yeah. I hate that. I hate that. Be kind because it's the right thing to do. And everyone deserves kindness. Yes. And the show deserves kindness and respect. The people, your people around you, the audience, everyone deserves that. Well, again, when you arrive as that being, who you are, which is just this beautiful, beautiful ray of sunshine all out as the being that you are.

But when you arrive as that, and people are not functioning as that, and you don't take in the negativity, but you allow, you blast out where you are, that also affects things. Yeah. If there are things that could change for a swing in the industry to help make this position be better, what would you say? What would you want to help? I think this podcast is helping with awareness of what it is. I think COVID helped a little bit that trying to acknowledge what swings do. I guess that would be it is the more awareness because where I'm at now, things that plagued me when I was younger, like I said, don't plague me anymore. But I think those things are still happening, like of feeling less than or feeling.

[38:37] Alicia Albright: Honestly, I will say because with Frozen, the creative team, Rob Ashford, Charlie Williams, and Sarah Levy were all swings in their professional career.

[38:51] Katy Pfaffl: That's amazing.

[38:52] Alicia Albright: So I felt really included. That was an amazing experience. With Wicked, sometimes they would be like, could you get off the stage? Because we try to dance on a dance clean-up in the corner, and they'd be like, could you guys move into the wings? And you're like, cool. And you feel bad.

[39:08] Joshua Kobak: I've absolutely had that said directly to me before, too.

[39:11] Alicia Albright: Yeah, because they need to see the picture. It's not personal, but we take it personally. And one time, I'll never forget, we were doing all this partnering, and me and my friend Travis were doing it in the back. And then Rob came up to us, and we were like, oh gosh, he's going to tell us to move because we're distracting. And he was like, no, actually, if you're going to do it, can you just do it upstage on center so I can still see the formation? And you guys are like, oh, cool.

[39:36] Joshua Kobak: That's so cool.

[39:38] Alicia Albright: We were like, oh, thank you so much. Help each other. Yeah, so we still get to do it full out in an area where we have space and where you can still see your picture because there's no one on center. And so I felt like that dynamic, where they understood what we were doing. They tried to help us when they could.

[39:54] Katy Pfaffl: That's great.

[39:55] Alicia Albright: We were included on the cast album. I was in the Tony Award.

[39:59] Katy Pfaffl: That's amazing.

[40:00] Alicia Albright: I was in the takeaway book. Most swings don't get to be on the cast album, do the Tonys, or be in the photo book at all. And that creates that separation. So I will say that team did it right because they got it. I think that acknowledgment, if there could be kindness from the top because then people follow suit, for them to be included in all those things would be a beautiful change. It's almost like I wish people had more awareness. And I think as talking about it, because when you have no awareness of what that is, even like, so when you're on last minute, I like to say, go to my mind palace. And I'm like, please don't talk to me. Because people try to kiki and they're like, what? And I'm like, I'm stressed because you're doing the same thing you do every day. You're not even thinking about it because you've got to go climb trees all day. And I was stressed. And it's like, there's a lack of awareness of the stress that goes along with it.

[40:57] Katy Pfaffl: Oh, so you mean you're talking about within the cast?

[40:59] Alicia Albright: Within the cast. Or I'll be like, I'm nervous. And they'll be like, you're fine. And they make it seem like, whatever, you're fine. And I think also, in Wicked, we don't gender ban. I don't go on for male identifying tracks. In Frozen, we could do it because there are parts where it doesn't matter. You just need a person. But since I wasn't a dance captain, I'd never done that. And so many people were out and the female dance captain was out. So they asked me if I would do it. And I was like, yeah, let's go. But I taught myself in one hour this male's track that I did. And I was like, I've never even looked at this. It was only a couple of numbers. But I taught it to myself because the dance captain was busy doing a split track for all these people that were out.

So he couldn't help me because he was busy doing that. And so I literally just taught myself. And nobody cared. They were like, you're fine. I was like, I literally never, never. I'm a boy right now. Like, I've never. And the lack of awareness is just mind boggling.

[42:05] Katy Pfaffl: So I think that that would be nice. I think awareness, you know, and just that and all ways that can be. And to piggyback on that and expand it. And I've said, I said this in the last episode, and I probably will say it in every episode, but I really firmly believe that the public also needs some education. And the best way to do that is to create some sort of honorable mention or award or something that's like so that somebody like, you know, some, you know, stage manager comes out and says, this person did this, this, this, and they were facing this, this, this, this. And they still got up on stage in front of everyone. And they knocked it out of the park. And, you know, and they could each submit a story, nominate some swings.

I feel like that's obviously going to cry because I think so often you get so used to not being acknowledged that I also like, I don't do it for the acknowledgement for the show. So, so that's why we all do it. So I almost feel shy. I think that's why I felt shy, like getting so acknowledged at the end of Frozen.

[43:07] Katy Pfaffl: I was, do you have any favorite story of like a favorite, favorite swing moment for you?

[43:12] Alicia Albright: Cause I, I mean, we got the pants down. Yeah. I, there was a really sweet, sweet moment years ago. So I swung Chorus Line numerous times. The first time I did it was for a three week run at Theater Under the Stars in Houston. And I was the only female understudy for every single role.

[43:32] Katy Pfaffl: Wow.

[43:32] Alicia Albright: Except Cassie, except then the girl who was understanding Cassie got not interested enough to not do the show, but was like, I don't want to do it anymore. So they're like, okay, we're just going to give that to you too. So I, and I had never done the show. And so I, and it was such a short run. So I was stressing because I was the only person cause they didn't acknowledge understudies at that theater because it was a regional house. And so, um, I danced the Cassie dance with her behind her because you couldn't see there was, the stage was so big every night. And then a year later I did the show again. A non-union Hawaiian tour of it. And my family lived in Hawaii. And then I just did three.

Oh, I did Cassie, Val and Maggie. And, um, they never rehearsed me. Oh, my friend and I, Brian Nolten, who ended up playing Paul on Broadway is so amazing. We had both swung it before. So we would sit backstage and go over the acting beats together to really help. Especially with like, um, Cassie and Paul. And we would, we would sit and really do the work together.

[44:41] Alicia Albright: And finally this one day at Places, everyone comes running at me and they're like, she just felt her toe. She doesn't know if she can do the show because if you guys don't know Chorus Line as Cassie, you're standing in heels for like an hour and then you do, or more, then you do an eight minute dance solo. Singing and dancing. Singing and dancing. So, um, it's the best role ever. And I'm working with Donna McKechnie right now. So I'm dying cause she's Madame Marvel when we came. Oh my gosh. The original Cassie, for those of you who don't know, look it up.

[45:10] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah. So cool.

[45:10] Alicia Albright: She, uh, so they come running to me. They're like, if she walks off stage in the opening number, you're Cassie. And I was like, what? So we go on stage and I'm like, oh dear. And she exits. And if you haven't seen a Chorus Line, the opening number is an audition. So you're doing a ballet pass, you know, stuff. So I do my ballet cross and then I exit the wings, change my costume, get her mic off her body and come back on stage just in time. Then he makes cuts and the last person he keeps, he says, and Cassie. So I made it just in time. And I remember I was ready. And this is what I always tell people, like they had not rehearsed me once. I had done the work on my own. I had never done it before. Never sang a full out, never anything, but I was ready, you know?

[46:43] Alicia Albright: And, um, so at this point they all come forward in one long line and they have their headshots in front of their face. And I remember thinking, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Like I get the chance to do this. So, so, and I did unbeknownst to me, cause this cast was so sweet. They found my phone, called my parents. They could not make it because I had the car, but I ended up doing it all weekend. So they ended up seeing me.

[46:59] Katy Pfaffl: Okay.

[47:00] Alicia Albright: And then it gets even better. So I have no clue because as Cassie, you don't exit the stage up until you're solo, like, but then the whole cast leaves. So back then, cause this is like 2007, we didn't have phones that you recorded on. This one guy named Adolfo in the cast always had the hand, the small handheld recorder that the screen popped out and he would record everything just for fun, like living life. And she, when I was doing it, there's a section, if you guys, again, don't know, of course, and she does all these turns and she's, and a person holds up, um, like a towel, a white towel in the wings. So you have somewhere to spot.

[47:49] Alicia Albright: So spotting is when you're doing a turn, you have to keep focused on something, especially if it's multiple turns. So your head, your eyes focus on it. Even as you're turning, you keep going around and looking at that spot. So you don't get dizzy. So with on a stage, when there's lights and there's stuff, it's hard to see she's doing it across the stage. So she's not doing it facing forward, but in the wings, someone has a towel. So that person can spot it because you're doing, you're doing numerous turns over and over again in succession. So then I realized the whole cast was watching me, which was so kind, like everyone was in the wings. And what I didn't know is he was recording me, makes me want to cry, the whole time. Um, like my whole dance, my whole song, my whole solo. And then he went around backstage and interviewed everyone and was like, well you have the same religion.

[48:43] Alicia Albright: That is so amazing. Adolfo Blair, he's the sweetest person in the world. And I had no idea, like we didn't even know it was going to go on. Like this was all so sudden and they were so kind. They were like, you're so full of light and you're so beautiful. And then they gave it to my parents.

[48:56] Katy Pfaffl: Oh wow.

[48:56] Alicia Albright: And I didn't even know any of that had happened because they couldn't make it that night. So that was, hands down, it gives me the most positive, beautiful experience I've ever had as a swing, as an understudy, because in a chorus line, every part is a role. And that I was ready, I was prepared. It was my dream to finally get the chance to do this, this dream role. And I finally got to do it in a way that was so supportive.

[49:22] Katy Pfaffl: Yeah, so that was the best experience I've ever had.

[49:26] Alicia Albright: I love that. Well, I love this and I love that you came to do this with us. Thank you so much.

[49:32] Alicia Albright: Oh my gosh, I feel honored. It makes me feel shy when I feel super humbled and honored that you are giving people like me a voice and that you're creating a space of awareness for what we've done in our careers as swings and understudies and standbys. And yeah, so I feel humbled and grateful that you are giving a space and helping bring acknowledgement and awareness to the world about what we do.

[49:56] Joshua Kobak: Thank you for helping us to do that.

[49:58] Alicia Albright: I couldn't do it without you.

[50:00] Joshua Kobak: And that's why we are this community. And that's the thing, we can give voice to voices that need to be heard. I can't wait to see what adventures are next for you because there will always be adventures for you because you are a light being and also just an incredible talent. What are your socials? Let's tell everybody so that they can find you.

[50:20] Alicia Albright: On Instagram, I'm at Alicia Albright. And Facebook, that's all I do.

[50:26] Alicia Albright: The other thing I would think that made me think of, like what you're just saying, I think it's our duty when something hits our heart to share that. And the way that people can change the energy in a space going forward for anyone listening, like if you're doing a show and someone doesn't understand what a swing does, you can be the person that can explain it. Or if someone says something in an unaware way, you can be the healing person in the room that's like, this person has never done this before. Let's support them. That's another way that instead of like sometimes when people say unaware things and they just go up and no one says anything to counteract that awareness, you all that are listening can be the light in any space you're in to bring the awareness to the space for those people.

[50:58] Katy Pfaffl: I love it.

[51:00] Alicia Albright: It's like what you're saying is the gift I would want that people listening could, I feel, I hope you feel in your heart that it's your duty to give that gift forward.

[51:06] Katy Pfaffl: I love that. Thank you so much.

[51:09] Joshua Kobak: Thanks so much for staying with us all the way to the end of the episode. Make sure to tune in to our next episode coming out in a few weeks. Check us out on Instagram at Super Swings Broadway. And if there's any super swings out there that you think we should interview, please drop into our DMs and let us know and we will reach out to them because we want to have as many super swings out there in the spotlight as we possibly can.