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[0:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Today on Support For This Podcast. You know, maybe you haven't seen all of Game of Thrones, but your conversational partner has. What do you do? It can get awkward, tense, things that I don't personally like feeling. And that's why I started faking it forever. We speak to accuracy and teacher Frank Hertz, creator of the 10-week workshop, Faking It Forever: A Fast Track Guide to Speaking With Authority on Subjects You Know Nothing About. We'll talk about his five-point pivot method, how Steven Spielberg changed his life, and his unique style of meditation. I don't do it quietly. I make a lot of noise when I do it. There's a lot of screaming and crying. Uh, it's a time when I can release the inner pain that I have inside. Join us, won't you? I'm Emily, Amy, Lauren Becca, and this is Support For This Podcast.

[1:06] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: We're joined today by Frank Hertz.

[1:09] Frank Hertz: The RT is silent.

[1:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, okay. Thank you so much for joining us, Frank Hertz.

[1:16] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[1:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So, Frank, for our listeners, you teach a course called Faking It Forever, which is what? Can you just give us a qu, uh, a basic explanation of what this course is that you teach and what it's geared towards?

[1:29] Frank Hertz: Sure. Um, Faking It Forever is a, uh, course that I've been working on for a while. And what it does is it teaches people how to interact with other people in situations where you don't understand what they're talking about.

[1:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[1:48] Frank Hertz: For example, um, you know, maybe you haven't seen all of Game of Thrones, but your conversational partner has.

[1:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes.

[1:58] Frank Hertz: What do you do?

[1:59] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I suppose I would just hope that the waiter would come over and ask if I wanted another drink.

[2:06] Frank Hertz: Exactly. It can get awkward. Tense, things that I don't personally like feeling.

[2:12] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Who does?

[2:13] Frank Hertz: And that's why I started Faking It Forever.

[2:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I see. So instead of actually watching Game of Thrones, you do what?

[2:23] Frank Hertz: I teach people how to interact on a social level in subjects that they know nothing about.

[2:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I see. How to be an expert. There's so many topics right now open for potential discussion. Game of Thrones is huge right now. Six Feet Under, Mad Men, Seinfeld, Fifty Shades of Grey, everything Harry Potter. I mean, that literally won't die.

[2:47] Frank Hertz: Oh, are you all right?

[2:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh sorry, it was my, uh, lip bit.

[2:53] Frank Hertz: Oh, of course. I own one as well. I don't wear it because it was becoming too painful.

[2:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: How did you first identify that there was a need for this course? What gave you that initial insight?

[3:04] Frank Hertz: Well, I was raised in a very strict household. My parents never let me watch things that they thought were inappropriate, which, of course, you know, was what all of my friends were watching.

[3:16] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[3:17] Frank Hertz: Growing up. Uh, in fact, when I entered high school, I had never seen a single episode of Dawson's Creek.

[3:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[3:24] Frank Hertz: Utter humiliation.

[3:26] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[3:28] Frank Hertz: Then in 2002, something happened. A movie came out that, well, that really opened my eyes as to what was possible. And that was Steven Spielberg's Catch Me If You Can.

[3:37] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Catch Me If You Can.

[3:41] Frank Hertz: Changed my life.

[3:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[3:43] Frank Hertz: How?

[3:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, I never actually saw the film. I only watched the trailer, but that trailer was life-changing.

[3:49] Frank Hertz: Oh.

[3:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: The way that the guy was like, you know, pretending to be a pilot and then out of nowhere he's suddenly a doctor, and I just, I remember sitting there in the movie theater thinking, oh, now I see. It was like the curtain had finally been lifted. It was the trailer for Catch Me If You Can that inspired me and led me to become a professor at the Central California Institute for Mind and Body, where I'm also an acupuncturist.

[4:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[4:14] Frank Hertz: And onto the workshop that I now run.

[4:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, for our listeners, can you explain what being an acupuncturist is?

[4:22] Frank Hertz: Instead of inserting needles to ease their pain, I make drawings.

[4:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: On their bodies?

[4:29] Frank Hertz: No, just on paper.

[4:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And then people look at them?

[4:33] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[4:34] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh. So are you drawing here's your wrist and here's a, uh, a needle that I'm putting into it?

[4:40] Frank Hertz: Well, it kind of depends on the patient. Um, I've found that the most helpful things that I can draw tend to be boats. Um, far, I have seen it work a lot.

[4:55] Frank Hertz: So by working with people this way, uh, I kept finding that what really made my patients the most anxious, uh, number one cause in all of this. Those are the moments in conversation when someone brings up a topic that they don't know anything about.

[5:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Uh-huh.

[5:10] Frank Hertz: Uh, when you're, and when you're in an acupuncturist's office, I would imagine most people are thinking, I don't know a thing about this.

[5:19] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Exactly.

[5:19] Frank Hertz: I've barely heard of acupuncture.

[5:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[5:22] Frank Hertz: You know, maybe they, uh, haven't heard of certain medical terms that I'm using.

[5:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[5:28] Frank Hertz: And that's just level one.

[5:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[5:31] Frank Hertz: If we went to level two, go a little bit deeper, then suddenly we get into, have you ever been to this restaurant?

[5:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[5:39] Frank Hertz: Then we can go deeper. Level three, have you ever watched Friends?

[5:43] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[5:45] Frank Hertz: Yes. Well, and I would imagine for the people who haven't, they must feel deep shame because if you haven't watched Friends, at least an episode here or there, what have you been doing?

[5:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I don't know. It's syndicated. Even by accident, most people have probably watched an episode of Friends.

[6:03] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[6:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay, so you're beginning to realize that maybe it's the small talk in the office that's making people uncomfortable.

[6:09] Frank Hertz: Well, or perhaps the migraine is caused by something, uh, not on the surface.

[6:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: The social anxiety.

[6:16] Frank Hertz: You're asking, oh, if you had the mozzarella sticks at Papa Luigi's.

[6:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[6:21] Frank Hertz: And in their mind, they want to say yes, but they can't.

[6:26] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[6:26] Frank Hertz: Because they don't have the proper tools.

[6:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[6:29] Frank Hertz: My course is there to guide people in a way so that they sound as if they know what they're talking about.

[6:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[6:36] Frank Hertz: So that you can engage, uh, with your doctor.

[6:40] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[6:41] Frank Hertz: So that you can engage with your acupuncturist.

[6:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[6:44] Frank Hertz: Your friend.

[6:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[6:45] Frank Hertz: Your pets.

[6:46] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes.

[6:47] Frank Hertz: You'd say to your pet, hey, I know what you're experiencing as an animal. They wag their tails if they're happy, that's a dog. They hiss if they're upset, that's a cat.

[6:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[6:59] Frank Hertz: But if you had a hissing dog, you'd probably want to take him to an acupuncturist. I don't want to make any claims that I can't back up illegally, but I can tell you without a doubt that I would be able to help a hissing dog.

[7:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Support for Support For This Podcast is brought to you by Quick Dash. We've all been there. You're walking down the street without a care in the world, or just the normal cares you hold on to because you're tightly wound and your job kind of sucks, when all of a sudden, a block away, you see someone you've lost touch with. You both make eye contact, then look down at your phone as to appear you haven't made eye contact, and then spend the longest 25 seconds of your life stressing over if you're going to stop each other as if you're just noticing them now, or casually keep walking and pretend neither of you saw each other in the first place. But who can even know how the situation will play out?

It's an awkward, unnecessary burden on your crazy busy life. Well, not anymore. Introducing Quick Dash, the app that enters all of your contact info into its patented location tracking system and alerts you when any one of your contacts is within four blocks of you, thusly ensuring you'll have just the right amount of time to take an alternate route and avoid anyone you don't want to run into.

[8:10] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure, there are times when the alert may be for someone you actually want to see, and should that be the case, great for you. But let's be honest, nine times out of ten, it will most likely be that person from college you were best friends with for a semester, or the actual good friend you lied to about your vacation plans just to avoid their baby's first birthday party. Why force yourself to make small talk with someone from your past and hear yourself reflexively say we should totally get together sometime soon when you both know it's never going to happen? Now with Quick Dash, that conversation is a thing of the past. Sure, going down 26th Street when you really need to be on 28th Street may add a small detour to your trip, but when you think of the alternative, isn't it worth it? There have always been apps to help you connect with people. Now comes the one that doesn't. Quick Dash. Walk with confidence.

[8:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, Frank, could you give us some helpful tips? Just a few that you talk to your students about.

[9:02] Frank Hertz: Well, sure. There are three main components to any important cultural reference. And those three are, uh, number one, the intention. Number two, the execution. And the third and most important, how do celebrities feel about it?

[9:19] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[9:21] Frank Hertz: Um, any expert will always engage in one of these three points of entry, as we call it. Now, once you've found an opening to the conversation, you can push in a little bit further.

[9:34] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[9:35] Frank Hertz: Um, at some point you're gonna reach the end of that given point of entry, and we call this the wall. Um, and then when your conversational partner is, you know, starting to show signs of discomfort, this is probably because you're hitting their wall.

[9:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay, so using that example, let's say we're chatting and Game of Thrones comes up. So I haven't, let's just say I have not seen Game of Thrones. I say to you, how about that season six? Hmm? How great was that? Because I don't know what else to say.

[10:07] Frank Hertz: You could.

[10:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And what do I say? Help me, teacher.

[10:11] Frank Hertz: No problem. So, like I said, those three points of entry is where you want to begin. Um, so the intention of the question. Or, you know, what is the intention of me bringing up Game of Thrones season six to you? Am I really, uh, wanting to discuss season six, or do I really want to discuss season five?

[10:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[10:32] Frank Hertz: Or am I trying to say something else altogether? If you can understand the intention, then you can pivot the conversation.

[10:40] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[10:41] Frank Hertz: Second, the execution. Now, this is a fun one. Yeah. I bring up season six Game of Thrones. What do you know about season six of Game of Thrones?

[10:51] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Nothing.

[10:52] Frank Hertz: Right. Wait for me to make the attack.

[10:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes.

[10:56] Frank Hertz: I'll go in and I'll start talking about a given character. Now, you've heard some things about the show through the grapevine. And what you have to do is wait for me to make an error in my execution.

[11:07] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[11:07] Frank Hertz: And as soon as that happens, you have genuine conversation.

[11:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: What would be an error?

[11:12] Frank Hertz: Well, for example, if I said, oh, those dragons, you know, they're so mean. Can't, can't I hate those dragons.

[11:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I don't know. I don't watch the show.

[11:24] Frank Hertz: But if I said something like that, then you could jump in and say, well, you know, those dragons.

[11:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I just do the opposite.

[11:34] Frank Hertz: Exactly.

[11:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[11:36] Frank Hertz: Fight the execution.

[11:37] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[11:38] Frank Hertz: And suddenly we're in.

[11:39] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[11:40] Frank Hertz: Genuine conversation, real feelings. And of course, the third point is how do celebrities feel about it?

[11:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I know that Leslie Jones, the comedian, tweets about it.

[11:52] Frank Hertz: Right.

[11:53] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So I could talk about her.

[11:55] Frank Hertz: Exactly. And using her as a resource is gonna be so valuable to you in your efforts to be an expert.

[12:06] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Alright, now what happens when you're having this conversation and you're doing really well, but it's been going on for a while, and you think, you know what?

[12:13] Frank Hertz: Right.

[12:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: It's only a matter of time until I'm found out.

[12:15] Frank Hertz: They're gonna find out.

[12:16] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I don't know what I'm talking about.

[12:18] Frank Hertz: When you're really lost in the conversation, when you're in over your head, when you feel like you're way too deep inside, yeah. That's when you need to pull out.

[12:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[12:25] Frank Hertz: That's when you need an exit strategy. I actually teach a five-part method, which, um, yeah, well, it's quite simple, actually. Uh, at any point in the conversation, you can find an easy way out. Very, very simply. Um, if it's okay, I'll show you right now. First part is you just arrange in, uh, your face in a way, uh, to make a look of disgust, you know. Uh, kind of furrow your brow and make a, oh, I'm disgusted kind of look. And then you utter these words. Oh, I know.

[12:54] Frank Hertz: Oh. And then you take a long, deep swallow, then you sigh.

[13:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[13:02] Frank Hertz: And then you wait.

[13:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: For for what?

[13:06] Frank Hertz: Exactly. Oh, the other person will always start talking next.

[13:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And they won't want to continue down the same path.

[13:14] Frank Hertz: Because they think you you they've disgusted you somehow.

[13:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes.

[13:19] Frank Hertz: Or offended you.

[13:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[13:22] Frank Hertz: What's the newest class that you're teaching these days?

[13:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Our fastest growing class right now is uh all about politics.

[13:28] Frank Hertz: Uh basically, you know, how to react about the latest news when you haven't been on Twitter for the last three hours.

[13:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, I see, because right now it's like there's an episode of Homeland on your phone.

[13:37] Frank Hertz: You just look at your alerts and um it's kind of terrifying, actually.

[13:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[13:43] Frank Hertz: But exciting if you can remove that part of your mind that thinks about things deeply.

[13:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[13:50] Frank Hertz: What do you do in that situation when you you walk in, you you meet your friend um, you know, for a drink or something, and you say, and they say, have you heard the news?

[13:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: That kind of tricky play um is really usually a red flag that we need to change the subject.

[14:05] Frank Hertz: Well, in that case, do you offer any courses about food and wine?

[14:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hmm.

[14:09] Frank Hertz: Yes, because um our very own uh audio engineer, Ben Michael, Sam at Mark, says that uh when he walks in, and I'm sorry to sorry to embarrass you, uh Ben, Michael Sam at Mark.

[14:22] Frank Hertz: Um, but sometimes uh, you know, we've we've jokingly discussed when uh you know you walk into a wine store, you want to buy a bottle of wine that is twelve dollars, but you want your friends to think you paid maybe fifteen to eighteen dollars.

[14:37] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[14:37] Frank Hertz: You want it to taste good, but you want you don't want to spend more than twelve dollars.

[14:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But how do you ask that in a wine store not sound like a cheap idiot?

[14:46] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[14:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah, it's it's a really uh common issue that that plagues a lot of people right now.

[14:54] Frank Hertz: Uh digestibles are a tricky subject.

[14:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mmm, digestibles.

[14:59] Frank Hertz: Um, you know, like you said, you don't want to sound like an imbecile, but you also don't want to come off like a cheapskate.

[15:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[15:04] Frank Hertz: So we found that by focusing on intangible flavors, you know, flavors that you literally cannot taste, your conversational partner will never know that that you don't know if you engage on on intangible flavors.

[15:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um so, you know, saying things like I prefer more forward tasting.

[15:27] Frank Hertz: I see.

[15:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You know, uh uh.

[15:30] Frank Hertz: Do you have any wine that's more tight?

[15:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, I've never heard of tight wine.

[15:35] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[15:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I prefer tight.

[15:38] Frank Hertz: Support for support for this podcast is brought to you by My Horoscope, My Choice.

[15:43] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Want to love astrology, but have a hard time believing that the time you were born has anything to do with who you are at all.

[15:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And astrology is actually just a vague list of generalized adjectives that on some level apply to everyone.

[15:55] Frank Hertz: From the authors of Secreting Your Secrets Secretly, how to avoid judgment from people who think you're just secreting in a futile attempt to gain control over your life, comes the app, My Horoscope, My Choice.

[16:07] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Feeling blue, feeling happy?

[16:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Just input one of several varied emotional states into the app, and my horoscope, my choice, will find a real horoscope currently available online that best matches your current mood.

[16:19] Frank Hertz: Some people would say we're just cherry picking horoscopes to keep you in a feedback loop of your chosen emotional state.

[16:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But those people are mean and unhappy, and even if they seem happy, deep down they're not.

[16:31] Frank Hertz: What a classic Aries slash Taurus slash Gemini slash Cancer slash Leo slash Virgo slash Libra slash Scorpio slash Sagittarius slash Capricorn move.

[16:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Find my horoscope, my choice in the app store, and use discount code garbly cook for 10% off your monthly subscription.

[16:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay, now let me ask you a philosophical question.

[16:54] Frank Hertz: TV is something that comes up a lot in casual conversation.

[16:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[16:58] Frank Hertz: Do you think that by the time people mention have you watched XYZ, it's actually just it just is an indication that you have nothing else left to talk about?

[17:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, can I is it okay if I give a personal example here?

[17:12] Frank Hertz: By all means.

[17:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Years ago, uh, when I was just a young teen, uh I remember my uncle coming uh to visit us over Thanksgiving.

[17:20] Frank Hertz: Um he had been away uh living in San Francisco, and and he engages me with a standard opener, right?

[17:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You know, how is school going? Do you have a girlfriend? How old are you, etc., et cetera.?

[17:32] Frank Hertz: Then the conversation quickly turned into uh a play series that he had recently been reading.

[17:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um the title was Angels in America.

[17:41] Frank Hertz: Oh.

[17:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, since I was raised agnostic and had no introduction to Christian literature, I never had heard of that.

[17:47] Frank Hertz: Um and and were my expertise skills more developed, I might have engaged, you know, using one of the three core components that we talked about earlier.

[17:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But as an awkward young teen, the best I could muster was, ah, yes, I really like that one part.

[18:03] Frank Hertz: Right.

[18:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, which part I was referring to, I had no idea.

[18:10] Frank Hertz: Um, but my uncle, and and this is where some of the initial design for faking it forever took shape.

[18:18] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: My uncle also had no idea what part I was referring to.

[18:23] Frank Hertz: So he used one of the most dangerous responses, um, which you know, we encourage to avoid at all costs, uh, the CR, the clarification request.

[18:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, clarification requests can seem innocent enough, um, but usually it's a sign that your conversation partner is beginning to see signs of your novice poke out.

[18:45] Frank Hertz: Hmm.

[18:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So, um, you know, without expertisinal training, there was only one thing that I could do.

[18:54] Frank Hertz: Hmm.

[18:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I could double down.

[18:57] Frank Hertz: So I stared him directly in the eye.

[18:59] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Another fantastic tool, by the way.

[19:02] Frank Hertz: And I slowly repeated myself, making sure not to break eye contact.

[19:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I said, you know, that one part.

[19:12] Frank Hertz: Now, of course, in in my head, I'm freaking out.

[19:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I mean, what if he knows that I've never read Angels in America?

[19:19] Frank Hertz: You know, what if he sees me for who I really am inside?

[19:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You know, can he see it in my eyes?

[19:24] Frank Hertz: Can he smell it on me?

[19:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I but I held my ground.

[19:27] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[19:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And what do you know?

[19:29] Frank Hertz: He bought it.

[19:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um my uncle, he leaned forward, he he put his hand on my shoulder.

[19:34] Frank Hertz: Um, I watched his eyes well up with tears, and he said, Yes, I know.

[19:41] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And it was probably the most genuine moment that I've ever had with him.

[19:45] Frank Hertz: So, sure.

[19:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Maybe we talk about TV shows, maybe we talk about books, plays.

[19:52] Frank Hertz: Really, it's about wanting to talk about what's really going on underneath.

[19:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And just in that, in that spirit of of talking about what's really going on underneath, uh, I might understand that in that conversation you accidentally came out to your uncle?

[20:07] Frank Hertz: Uh, I don't think so.

[20:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I've never seen or read Angels in America, so I'm not sure what it's about.

[20:14] Frank Hertz: But uh Oh, well, you might want to you might want to have a follow-up conversation with your uncle.

[20:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[20:24] Frank Hertz: Okay.

[20:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, what kind of people do you think are worse people?

[20:28] Frank Hertz: People who are mad at other people for not watching a show that that they love.

[20:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[20:33] Frank Hertz: Which I can understand both sides of.

[20:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[20:36] Frank Hertz: Or people who say, Oh, I don't know how how you watch any of those shows.

[20:41] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I don't have that much time.

[20:42] Frank Hertz: I'm so busy doing X, Y, Z, Q.

[20:46] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I I couldn't possibly watch a couple hours of television a week.

[20:53] Frank Hertz: Oh, I know.

[20:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Go on.

[21:00] Frank Hertz: Oh, I know.

[21:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[21:06] Frank Hertz: Oh, oh, the method.

[21:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I see.

[21:09] Frank Hertz: Wow.

[21:10] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Powerful stuff.

[21:11] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[21:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now let me ask you this.

[21:12] Frank Hertz: What topics are easy to fake and what topics are hard to fake?

[21:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Or do you even think any of them are easy or fake?

[21:20] Frank Hertz: Oh no, I I I definitely think there are there are easy ones and and hard ones.

[21:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um look, uh something like I'm trying to think.

[21:31] Frank Hertz: Hard film.

[21:34] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Easy movies.

[21:37] Frank Hertz: Oh.

[21:39] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[21:40] Frank Hertz: Uh hard, whiskey.

[21:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Easy, bourbon.

[21:49] Frank Hertz: Sure.

[21:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hard, world of warcraft.

[21:53] Frank Hertz: Easy.

[21:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Call of duty.

[21:56] Frank Hertz: Hmm.

[21:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hard.

[22:00] Frank Hertz: Paul Thomas Anderson.

[22:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Easy.

[22:04] Frank Hertz: M. Night Shyamalan.

[22:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hard.

[22:10] Frank Hertz: Star Trek.

[22:12] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Easy?

[22:13] Frank Hertz: Battlestar Galactica.

[22:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No, got it wrong.

[22:16] Frank Hertz: I was gonna say Star Wars, but but Battlest actually, that's that's kind of a hard one.

[22:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um we have a course on on BSG and uh

[22:22] Frank Hertz: Oh, yeah.

[22:26] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, Frank, we know what you're doing when you're working, but what what do you do when you're not working?

[22:33] Frank Hertz: Well, uh, you know, my my work, I like to think that my work is my fun.

[22:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um opening up people's eyes to what I teach and the ways that I live, that's fun.

[22:48] Frank Hertz: Hmm.

[22:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But I mean, when you get home at the end of the day from teaching a workshop, let's say, do you put on the television?

[22:57] Frank Hertz: Oh no.

[22:59] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No.

[22:59] Frank Hertz: No, no, no.

[23:01] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um no.

[23:02] Frank Hertz: Typically, um I like to uh lay down on the hardwood floor and um, you know, do some meditation.

[23:12] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um that's I guess something d uh interesting about me.

[23:17] Frank Hertz: Um It seem that seems kind of monk like.

[23:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, thank you.

[23:22] Frank Hertz: Yeah, I take that as a compliment.

[23:23] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um now I I I don't do it quietly.

[23:26] Frank Hertz: I make a lot of noise when I do it.

[23:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um there's a lot of screaming and and crying.

[23:31] Frank Hertz: Uh it's a time when I can release the inner pain that I have inside.

[23:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Teaching teaching can be hard.

[23:37] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[23:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But but it sounds like you like to keep your mind nice and clear.

[23:42] Frank Hertz: You don't want to fill it with actual information.

[23:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You you need to keep it clean to help your students learn how to speak they know nothing about.

[23:53] Frank Hertz: If I if I start filling my mind with information, then how will I teach others how to engage with society in a meaningful way?

[24:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: How can we engage in society in a meaningful way if our brains are full of uh facts information, facts, yeah, thoughts.

[24:14] Frank Hertz: Hmm.

[24:16] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: The higher education of not being educated.

[24:19] Frank Hertz: Yeah.

[24:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[24:20] Frank Hertz: Well, Frank, this has really just been a transcendent experience.

[24:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I look forward to uh to our listeners hearing this and knowing that they they can stop any learning that they don't want to learn.

[24:34] Frank Hertz: And they can just uh, you know, get deeper with very little.

[24:39] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: There's no reason that you have to keep living a life um where you feel inadequate about your social conversations.

[24:49] Frank Hertz: No shame in your game.

[24:51] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No.

[24:52] Frank Hertz: Not none in mine.

[24:54] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Maybe in the future there'll be less.

[24:56] Frank Hertz: With time.

[24:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, thanks so much for joining us.

[25:00] Frank Hertz: It's been a real pleasure.

[25:01] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: My pleasure.

[25:02] Frank Hertz: For more information about Frank Hez, check out his viral TED X Fresno talk online.

[25:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: That's it for season one of Support for This Podcast.

[25:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: To our loyal tens of listeners, we thank you.

[25:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And please let us know what you'd like to learn more about for next season.

[25:18] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Find us online at support for this podcast.com.

[25:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Don't worry, that's an actual website.

[25:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm Emily Amy Lauren Becca.

[25:26] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Thanks for listening.

[25:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And as always, for supporting Support for This Podcast.