This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Today on Support For This Podcast, I wore that bandana. I put in that French braid. I kept all my poop inside me. I said, I'm not gonna use the bathroom in front of you. He still doesn't know that I use the bathroom. We speak to Mackenzie Phillips, no relation, a young woman who thought she was going glamping, but in fact went camping. She's taken her difficult experience and turned it into action, campaigning for better transparency within the glamping community. She'll share her thoughts on a limited appeal of the natural world as well as what makes for a good partner. What I liked about him was that he was adventurous. You know, six o'clock, let's go get oysters. Like, oh, okay, I hadn't planned on that. Join us, won't you? I'm Emily Amy Lauren Becca, and this is Support For This Podcast.

[1:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hi everyone. Welcome to the program. Today we have Mackenzie Phillips with us. Welcome, Mackenzie.

[1:10] Mackenzie Phillips: Thank you so much for having me. I'm a huge fan.

[1:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh my goodness, thank you. That means more to me than it should. So we're gonna be talking today about glamping. Now, for our listeners, there might be some of you who aren't familiar with what glamping is. Can you just give us a quick rundown of what glamping is?

[1:25] Mackenzie Phillips: Sure, sure. Um, I like to think of glamping as an opportunity to experience Mother Nature without actually having to interact with Mother Nature.

[1:34] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, lovely. So is it related to camping?

[1:38] Mackenzie Phillips: I guess one could say it's related to camping in that you are near trees. You are near a body of water, usually a lake, a river, a stream, a babbling brook. Um, but unlike camping where you are forced into a cloth-like structure to sleep, uh, you know, eat um like weird food that you wrap in tinfoil and cook on a hot plate. When you glamp, you're in a regular hotel room.

[2:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[2:05] Mackenzie Phillips: Uh, you have a bed, you have running water, you have a shower and a bath. Generally, you enter into your room from the outdoors. So to me, I prefer that because you're not sharing a wall with other guests, and most importantly, you have outlets for your devices.

[2:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. So it's not camping. And the etymology of the word glamping comes from, I wouldn't quote me on this because I haven't done the appropriate research, but I believe that it's a combination of the word camping and also glamorous.

[2:38] Mackenzie Phillips: Oh, yeah, that makes sense. How did you first hear about glamping?

[2:42] Mackenzie Phillips: You know, I think the first time I heard about glamping was from my Kappa Kappa Gamma sister Delaney. Um, shout out to KKG and particularly to my fellow sister Megan Markle, who's about to become a princess. I'm really happy for her. Um, Delaney had this incredible Instagram presence. Um, just always having pictures in the natural world, trees, like I said, a babbling brook, every now and then an animal in the background. Delaney doesn't have the best complexion. Oh, but the natural light really did wonders for her skin. She always looked well rested. Generally, she was taking um selfies, of course. Which is I find the best way to sort of show your followers, I'm here and I'm in nature. So there's a presence of you in the photo.

And I was so impressed by her presence on social media, but also felt like, you know, it's a big sacrifice to sleep in a tent, to eat off a hot plate, all for these pictures. So I confronted her and I said, you know, how did you get to be so adventurous? Did you grow up that way? And she said, Mackenzie, how do you not know about glamping?

[3:57] Mackenzie Phillips: Oh.

[3:57] Mackenzie Phillips: So she was glamping. She had been glamping. Yeah, but you never knew. You know, to the regular, you know, passerby of her social media, it looked like camping.

[4:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I get it.

[4:09] Mackenzie Phillips: So there's like the appearance of being one with nature, but with the creature comforts of not.

[4:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Exactly, exactly. Wow. When you go on vacation, you're trying to relax. Why wouldn't you go and be able to experience nature and also be able to get a sweetest massage?

[4:25] Mackenzie Phillips: Yeah. Well, also because when you're actually camping, um, you probably get a lot of dirt in your face, and then you'd have to get a facial when you got back anyway.

[4:33] Mackenzie Phillips: Exactly. So this way you're just using good time management.

[4:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: That's right. So you decided to go glamping and well, to be specific, I wouldn't say I decided.

[4:44] Mackenzie Phillips: Oh.

[4:45] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, I was put in a position um because I was in a new relationship.

[4:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[4:50] Mackenzie Phillips: Let's call him Mark. You know, we'd been together for three weeks, which is always a bit of a milestone. Also, it was my quarter birthday. Oh. And I like to do something special for myself on my quarter birthday. Um, I feel like you only get four a year. You know, we're always trying to impress people when it starts off. And I was with the man, um, what I liked about him was that he was adventurous. You know, six o'clock, let's go get oysters. Like, oh, okay, I hadn't planned on that. So I wanted to be adventurous with him like that.

[5:24] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[5:25] Mackenzie Phillips: And he spoke about wanting to go and have this outdoor experience. And I was honest. You know, I'm an independent woman. I'm an adult. I'm not gonna say, yes, I love camping when frankly I'm not interested. And he said, Oh, don't worry. This isn't camping. I think some people call it glamping. And so I felt like he was on my side, and I let him do a lot of the planning.

[5:54] Mackenzie Phillips: Oh.

[5:54] Mackenzie Phillips: And I ended up in a situation that was dangerous, you know. Here I am not glamping.

[6:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[6:03] Mackenzie Phillips: And um really forced to survive.

[6:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: How quickly did you realize that you were not in fact glamping, you were camping?

[6:13] Mackenzie Phillips: There were clues. You know, you look back and you say, why didn't I ask? You know, why didn't I go further? And you know, I had seen the website over his shoulder, and I felt like it was unlike some of the other glamping websites that I had been to.

[6:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[6:29] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, I didn't see a tab for a spa, I didn't see a restaurant. Um, but I kind of let it go and thought he knows what he's doing. That was clue number one. Clue number two is, you know, I realized that he was bringing all these extra battery packs for um his phone, as if a regular charger just wouldn't cut it.

[6:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh my goodness.

[6:50] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, and I'm thinking, oh, like he's just being really, really prepared if there's an emergency. What I didn't realize is that the entire situation was gonna be an emergency.

[7:01] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[7:02] Mackenzie Phillips: I also realize that there's certain food supplies in the back, that there is in fact a hot plate, um, that there is a ramen noodle situation.

[7:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[7:13] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, and I'm like, should there should be a restaurant on site, like catered breakfast, buffet, you know.

[7:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And you'd probably accept just a continental breakfast since you're glamping.

[7:23] Mackenzie Phillips: Uh, I would. I mean, I don't do well with dairy and I don't dwell with gluten, and there is a lot of like a muffin yogurt situation at a Continental, so I do try to avoid that. But frankly, looking back on what I went through, a continental breakfast would have been welcome.

[7:37] Mackenzie Phillips: So once we arrived at the site, I had been sort of doing the math in my head. This isn't adding up.

[7:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[7:43] Mackenzie Phillips: But I didn't want to freak out. But we arrived at the site and I saw these structures. Um, I just felt like the bottom fell out, you know.

[7:52] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[7:52] Mackenzie Phillips: I fell into the abyss. What is this gonna look like? Wow. They were cabins.

[7:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[7:59] Mackenzie Phillips: With more cloth-like um walls.

[8:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[8:03] Mackenzie Phillips: So not tents. There was a bed. It was very uncomfortable. Spring mattress. Oh. Not good for my lower back, sure. Which I hurt in Pilates Plus. And then there was what one might call a bathroom.

[8:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay, okay.

[8:24] Mackenzie Phillips: But um, you couldn't drink the water from the sink. Oh. Um, you had to use a pedal to flush the toilet.

[8:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, that's I've I've been to restaurants where that happens, but it wasn't in a like on a fun way.

[8:36] Mackenzie Phillips: Have you been to restaurants where it happens and you are stuck there for a weekend with your boyfriend who frankly you don't want to have a bowel movement in front of?

[8:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, um, that's a slightly different scenario.

[8:52] Mackenzie Phillips: It's fine. I went on a camping trip when I was uh in elementary school and I didn't use the bathroom for three days.

[8:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm so sorry.

[8:59] Mackenzie Phillips: I completely understand that.

[9:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Support for Support For This Podcast is brought to you by Friendly Ghost Mattress. Friendly Ghost Mattress is the latest company to join the bed in a box bandwagon that's literally putting people to sleep. Skip the middleman and get an affordable good night's sleep with a friendly ghost mattress delivered straight to your door in a wait for it, a jack in the box box.

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[10:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: What were you most looking forward to on your glamping trip that you didn't get to experience on this camping trip?

[10:31] Mackenzie Phillips: I think about I wanted to be able to document the trip. And I was unable to for multiple reasons. First of all, I did a lot of crying and so I was a bit puffy. Uh-huh. Um, second of all, there was not a lot of service up uh up where we were. And Mark had brought um external batteries for us, but not enough that I could be posting on social media regularly. And then beyond that, you know, some girls have straight hair, right? Some girls have curly hair.

[11:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[11:06] Mackenzie Phillips: And I find that that kind of hair exists better in the natural world, either definitely straight or definitely curly. Sure. I have hair that is somewhere in the middle. It's something that I deal with on a daily basis. I've sort of made it work, right? I'm a survivor, I'm a trooper, I know how to work my hair if you give me a flat iron and potentially a round brush and a ceramic blow dryer.

[11:32] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[11:33] Mackenzie Phillips: I thought I was gonna have access to power that would allow me to do my hair in that way. Um, and I did not. So luckily I had a bandana, so I was able to do sort of a cute um, I say a Rosie the Riveter type um headband um with a French braid.

[11:54] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[11:55] Mackenzie Phillips: It was okay. Uh-huh. It didn't photograph that well. I see. It didn't frame my face correctly. I didn't feel like it worked for my followers to see me that way.

[12:06] Mackenzie Phillips: Like, this is on you, Mark. You know, you made this happen. You reap what you sow. So since this experience, this is a lot of the work that I've been doing in the transparency of advertising these sorts of places. Um, I actually think that the word glamping is potentially overused. Um, and I've been working to make sure that if you're gonna call yourself a glamping site, that there are certain things that are required of you. You need to have a restaurant on site, even if that just means a continental breakfast, right? Even if that just means the basics, um, you need to have a full bathroom that has a sturdy door um separating it from the bedroom so that you can have privacy, right? When you're doing sort of your most intimate things that you don't necessarily want a romantic partner to know about. Sure. You need to have access to chargers at all hours, not just an emergency sort of charging situation. I need to be able to have things plugged in all day, all night.

[13:10] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[13:11] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, what kind of charger do you need? We have it in case of emergency.

[13:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[13:15] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, I I'm unclear if people who have Androids glamp. I don't know if there's an intersection there, but just in case, I don't want to leave anyone out. You know, yes, you can call yourself glamping, but you're gonna have to meet certain industry standards.

[13:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[13:28] Mackenzie Phillips: So it's it's almost like if glamping is glamorous camping, we need to be heavier on the glamour with a sprinkle of camp.

[13:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Absolutely. I mean, what does glamour mean to you?

[13:40] Mackenzie Phillips: For me, glamour means comfort, it means beauty, it means social media presence, it means juicing, right?

[13:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[13:49] Mackenzie Phillips: Yeah, because they're not saying it's not called macomph campy. You know, they'd have to figure out a better, a better way to say it. But branding aside, I would rather those places call themselves McCumphy camping than said that they were glamping sites because that is untrue. And if somebody said it's McCumfy camping, I would say, hmm, sounds strange. What is that? And then I would know to do my research.

[14:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[14:11] Mackenzie Phillips: So so Mark is the one who booked this place who took you to this um this if you'd even call it a vacation, it sounds like it was far from it for you. Now, was there part of you that felt that you wanted to try to pretend to be that girl for him and just kind of pretend like you were into it, but then in the future just never happened to be able to to do that again? Like, oh no, I love that weekend, honey. I'm just something came up, or like why don't you go do that with your you know friends?

[14:39] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Absolutely.

[14:39] Mackenzie Phillips: And I think every woman has felt that way. Every woman has kind of put her needs aside to make a man happy. I think uh, you know, the more women I talk to, the more universal this experience is. Um I tried, I really did. I mean, I wore that bandana, I put in that French braid, I kept all my poop inside me. I said, I am not gonna use the bathroom in front of you. He still doesn't know that I use the bathroom.

[15:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[15:04] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, there are some secrets that I still kept, some dignity that I still held on to.

[15:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah, yeah.

[15:09] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, but the truth is it all kind of broke for me when I woke up in the morning and everything was wet.

[15:17] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[15:18] Mackenzie Phillips: The dew. Um, I don't think that this is something that people speak about enough. The fact that when you are in nature, if you do not have a walled structure, yeah, no matter what you do, everything will be wet when you wake up.

[15:34] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[15:34] Mackenzie Phillips: And you know, I woke up and I said, Did it rain?

[15:39] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[15:40] Mackenzie Phillips: You know?

[15:40] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[15:41] Mackenzie Phillips: It also seems like with um, and I don't know Mark, but I'm assuming he works in finance.

[15:46] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes, of course.

[15:47] Mackenzie Phillips: Okay. Um, I think for men in general, they don't need to do as much. They don't care about that their hair is their h who cares about their hair.

[15:56] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[15:56] Mackenzie Phillips: Their skin regimen. You know, all Mark had to do to get ready for the weekend was get a spray tan and, you know, run a run his fingers through his hair.

[16:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now, did you, um, just going back to the pictures um that you weren't able to take in the moment, um, did you consider maybe taking a bunch of photos and then doing like um like a at the end of the weekend, like here's some pics from the weekend kind of thing at the end, or even um, and this is hotly contested, but maybe like a week or two later doing a throwback Thursday to your camping trip?

[16:28] Mackenzie Phillips: You know, I did take pictures in the moment. I think I was being highly optimistic about um what hindsight would be for this trip.

[16:37] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[16:39] Mackenzie Phillips: When I got home and I thought, okay, time to post.

[16:43] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[16:44] Mackenzie Phillips: I looked through them and I just broke down. Every picture was attached to a bad memory.

[16:51] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[16:51] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, I was very triggered. Sometimes I still hear um owls hooting when there are no owls.

[17:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[17:00] Mackenzie Phillips: I hear leaves crunching when I am in Williamsburg.

[17:04] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[17:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[17:06] Mackenzie Phillips: And there are no leaves.

[17:06] Mackenzie Phillips: So for me the pictures were much like somebody having to go back to a war zone.

[17:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[17:14] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, well.

[17:18] Mackenzie Phillips: Support for support for this podcast is brought to you by the Consortium of Gen Z therapists. Do you have a lot of feelings about social media and your overwrought presence on it? Does your 71-year-old therapist not really get what you're talking about? Do you often feel lost and confused when discussing how tracking your Instagram stories makes you question your self-worth? Do you wish your therapist understood the difference between liking and retweeting a compliment about yourself on Twitter? Sounds like you need help from the consortium of Gen Z therapists.

[17:48] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No need to switch therapists entirely, since the one you have already knows you. Just add one more person to your self-care regime. For all of your social media agita, talk to your Gen Y therapist.

[17:59] Mackenzie Phillips: He or she will help guide you to a robust but elegant social media presence. Our therapists are 23 and under, completely useless when it comes to almost anything else, but incredibly savvy at social media.

[18:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Let them help you the way you help your parents with their iPads.

[18:14] Mackenzie Phillips: The consortium of Gen Z therapists. Because being anxious about social media is extra in a bad way.

[18:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: How long after you got back did you and Mark break up?

[18:25] Mackenzie Phillips: Uh it took actually a month.

[18:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So we dated longer after than we dated before.

[18:31] Mackenzie Phillips: And you know, I think it was a lot about what you said that I wanted to be somebody that I wasn't.

[18:37] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Uh-huh.

[18:38] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, I wanted to pretend that I had had a good time.

[18:41] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[18:41] Mackenzie Phillips: I wanted to be the cool girl.

[18:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Don't we all?

[18:44] Mackenzie Phillips: I pushed myself for a month afterwards to be cool.

[18:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[18:49] Mackenzie Phillips: And I was having nightmares, you know, again about the hooting, yeah, the leaves crunching.

[18:54] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[18:55] Mackenzie Phillips: And um, I think Mark could tell that I had changed.

[18:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[18:59] Mackenzie Phillips: And finally I said, No, Mark, you changed. You changed that day that you brought me camping.

[19:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[19:05] Mackenzie Phillips: And he said, camping. We glamped.

[19:07] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[19:09] Mackenzie Phillips: And I opened my computer and I took him to a proper glamping site.

[19:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And um, I said, This is glamping.

[19:18] Mackenzie Phillips: And this is who I am. And I'm not gonna apologize for it.

[19:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[19:22] Mackenzie Phillips: And Mark couldn't accept me for who I was, and so that is that's how it ended.

[19:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Do you think that um people are born campers or non-campers? Do you think that happens from birth?

[19:33] Mackenzie Phillips: I I think that's an excellent question. I've thought about this a lot. Um I think that glamping is a natural evolution.

[19:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And I think that human beings that are born glampers are actually more evolved.

[19:49] Mackenzie Phillips: Um sure, we could all live in tents, right? And and make fire and kill an animal and cook it on that fire and use every piece of the animal to honor its life. Sure, we could, but that's not who we are.

[20:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Why else did we invent cell phones?

[20:07] Mackenzie Phillips: Why did we invent the flat iron, right?

[20:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[20:09] Mackenzie Phillips: I was born into a world where I had these comforts and it made me a more evolved human being. So when I look at someone like Mark, I see somebody who's, you know, a past version of a human being.

[20:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um my baseline is prepared to live with technology.

[20:26] Mackenzie Phillips: Sure. And Mark's is not.

[20:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[20:28] Mackenzie Phillips: Frankly, I feel bad for people who are born campers because their time's almost over.

[20:32] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[20:33] Mackenzie Phillips: Are you um are you dating anybody right now?

[20:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um, I am dating somebody now.

[20:39] Mackenzie Phillips: Um I actually I can't say his name.

[20:43] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: He is um rather famous.

[20:46] Mackenzie Phillips: Um he's part of a new political family and he's going through a divorce right now.

[20:51] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And so uh I feel like to divulge his name, um, which is also happens to be the name of his father, so it would be complicated.

[21:01] Mackenzie Phillips: Sure.

[21:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I actually think it's in everyone's best interest that we definitely don't don't say the name for fear of um alienating probably ninety-nine percent of my my listeners.

[21:13] Mackenzie Phillips: Um you know, people are different in person and what I appreciate about this man that I'm with now is that he would never lie to me about what a glamping site is.

[21:26] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Uh-huh.

[21:26] Mackenzie Phillips: You know that's that's probably true.

[21:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Now we've we've talked a lot about some pretty um frightening things that happened during the weekend.

[21:35] Mackenzie Phillips: Yeah.

[21:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Was there anything in particular that stands out as the scariest moment?

[21:39] Mackenzie Phillips: When I looked in the mirror um she was a stranger to me.

[21:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I said Mackenzie where are you?

[21:48] Mackenzie Phillips: I had gone on this trip to eradicate my pores to get those spa treatments.

[21:53] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[21:53] Mackenzie Phillips: To get that gorgeous natural light for selfies.

[21:56] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And here I look in the mirror and I'm looking at a ghost.

[22:00] Mackenzie Phillips: I look like a before picture frankly.

[22:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Wow.

[22:04] Mackenzie Phillips: Um you know at this age you want to be the after you want to be the after every day.

[22:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[22:10] Mackenzie Phillips: You want to make yourself proud.

[22:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[22:12] Mackenzie Phillips: And I looked in that dirty mirror and that fluorescent lighting and I said where are you?

[22:18] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Where are you, baby girl?

[22:20] Mackenzie Phillips: Wow.

[22:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um now McKenzie is there any way for people to find out more about what you're doing with your with your advocacy?

[22:26] Mackenzie Phillips: Absolutely. I mean first of all I do invite everyone to follow me on social media.

[22:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[22:31] Mackenzie Phillips: Um Mac Phillips.

[22:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[22:34] Mackenzie Phillips: And um there you will really see the version of myself that I'm proud of there you'll find a link in bio for my organization which is called Truth in Glamping.

[22:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh and there we work to help rehabilitate women who found themselves in situations like I have.

[22:52] Mackenzie Phillips: Um, and also to, like I said, work with these camping organizations that are misusing the term glamping.

[23:01] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You used air quotes. People can't see that on the podcast, but it is.

[23:04] Mackenzie Phillips: Oh, I'm sorry. You know, making sure that if you're gonna call yourself a glamping site, you have a certain list of criteria that you meet.

[23:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right.

[23:12] Mackenzie Phillips: Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a real pleasure.

[23:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Thank you.

[23:15] Mackenzie Phillips: It's my pleasure to share my story.

[23:17] Mackenzie Phillips: Since recording, McKenzie reached out to us to let us know she was invited to yet another glamping excursion. This time for her Kappa Kappa Gamma reunion. After telling her sisters her story, she was quickly able to persuade them to simply book a few bungalows at the four season Santa Barbara.

[23:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: To find out more about Mackenzie's advocacy work, follow her at MacPhillips and be sure to check out her site, www.truth in glamping.com.

[23:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm Emily, Amy Lauren Becker. Thanks for listening. And as always, for supporting support for this podcast.