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[0:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Today on Support for This Podcast. I am the head of this advocacy group, which is basically wanting to go back to a simpler time, a more magical time. A time when we didn't describe things by their utilitarian function. When they were they had a little sparkle and a little fizz. We speak to Seth Dennis, head of the advocacy group, Afno, otherwise known as artistic food names only. He'll share with us his decades-long campaign to change the name of a certain salad bar staple and what he loves most about hot dogs. You don't call a hot dog parts of the pig no one wanted wrapped up in a little casing and fed to children. You call it a hot dog. And then everyone wants one. Right. Hot dog. Sounds artistic. It's an artistic food name only. Join us, won't you? I'm Emily Amy Lauren Beca, and this is Support for This Podcast.

[1:11] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast. We have a very special guest with us. His name is Seth Dennis, and he runs a food advocacy group that you may or may not have heard of called Afno. Did I pronounce that correctly?

[1:23] Seth Dennis: Yes, you did.

[1:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Great. And it stands for what?

[1:26] Seth Dennis: Artistic food names only.

[1:29] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So tell us a bit about what your group is about. What does that mean, artistic food names only?

[1:34] Seth Dennis: I am the head of this advocacy group, which is basically wanting to go back to a simpler time, a more magical time. A time when we didn't describe things by their utilitarian function. When they were they had a little sparkle and a little fizz. And that's what I'm doing. I'm making sure that we keep that magic in foods and artistic level of creative names so that we don't just start naming things whatever simplest.

[2:07] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So can you give us an example of a food item that you're working on that's part of your group?

[2:12] Seth Dennis: I feel like you're being a little coy right now. You know what we're here for. Okay, this is just kind of the way that we um I'm not against coi, I'm into it. Oh. I'm the guy who lost the campaign for tomatoes that were dehydrated, a name that now everyone has it's become commonplace, and common is capitalized with a C. Uh sun dried tomatoes.

[2:40] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[2:41] Seth Dennis: They should have been called, they will be called Trezans.

[2:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I see. So can you can you talk us through that logic?

[2:49] Seth Dennis: Sure I can. I sure can. Okay. A raisin is a dried grape. Sure. We don't call it that. We call it a raisin. Anyway, my father, uh huh, Ronco Dennis of Central California, worked with farmers to make the cranberry an equal to the raisin to bring fruits and vegetables in an artistic way into the palate of American culture, and he did it because if you go to a salad bar now, there they are. They're like salt and pepper now. Crazins.

[3:23] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So your dad brought about crazins.

[3:27] Seth Dennis: Not just brought about, he named them. He named crazins, he came up with the idea. He also had braisins, it didn't catch on, it was blueberry raisins.

[3:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[3:37] Seth Dennis: Which I think we can still make happen. So I took it upon myself to bring back the Seth and Ronco Dennis name to Your father's name is Ronco.

[3:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: It is.

[3:46] Seth Dennis: Okay. He had a thing for dried foods.

[3:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So did your father work for an advertising company or for was he a farmer?

[3:53] Seth Dennis: No, he worked for an ad company who then worked with farmers to help bring foods.

[3:58] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: How did that come about?

[3:59] Seth Dennis: Because you know, we've had raisins for a long time. Yeah. Um but not craisins. What happened there? They saw the farmers needed to make, you know, they wanted to introduce cranberries more. They didn't know what to do. I mean, juice wasn't enough. And uh they wanted, they had the idea to uh dehydrate them. Um, but they weren't called sun dried cranberries, I'll tell you that. Because guess what? No sun is involved.

[4:22] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[4:23] Seth Dennis: It's all scientific mojo with machines and science.

[4:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Interesting.

[4:29] Seth Dennis: There's nothing to do with the sun. It's not artistic. Now listen, obviously, um, Seth, you seem to be very passionate and a little bit angry about all of this. But it's my understanding that sun-dried tomatoes are actually um dried in the sun in large batches.

[4:42] Seth Dennis: That's a lie. That's what they want you to think.

[4:44] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[4:45] Seth Dennis: That's what we call propaganda. Do you see what's happening here? My family name, they've tried to get rid of us. They've created this entire narrative that there's all these Italian farmers just working around putting tomatoes in the sun and waiting around for weeks while they dry up. No one's doing that.

[5:01] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[5:02] Seth Dennis: Have you ever seen those dehydrator commercials, those infomercials? That's what they're doing. All right. Well, let's get back to the real point here, which is that you're advocating for creative names, artistic food names only. So what would you like sun dried tomatoes?

[5:15] Seth Dennis: Trazins.

[5:19] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Traise okay.

[5:20] Seth Dennis: Trezens. They are tomato raisins. What a sweet, happy thought. Now, do you work in advertising?

[5:28] Seth Dennis: I don't have a job.

[5:29] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, okay.

[5:30] Seth Dennis: Except for as the president of your advocacy group?

[5:34] Seth Dennis: Yeah, but I don't bring in money with that. It's mostly nonprofit. I call it a not profit. But as soon as I get, you know, back up on my feet, I'm I'm intent on getting a job somewhere.

[5:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[5:46] Seth Dennis: It's hard with a record.

[5:48] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: The record?

[5:49] Seth Dennis: It's hard with a record to get a job.

[5:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, with a re oh, forgive me, yes. Um it's non-violent though.

[5:54] Seth Dennis: Okay.

[5:54] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Nonviolent.

[5:55] Seth Dennis: Yes. We don't have to get into it.

[5:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Probably shouldn't. How long have you been working in this field?

[6:01] Seth Dennis: Um, I guess the field that you I guess in a way made up?

[6:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, in in the field of advertising for artistic food names.

[6:09] Seth Dennis: In the field of not working for an advertiser, but having strong opinions about how food should be labeled. I was doing it all my life, let's be honest. My dad I was there when my dad came up with crazins.

[6:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah.

[6:21] Seth Dennis: I was there. I think I was had something to do with it. Because I was a little wrinkly dude, like a little grape who's dried up.

[6:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[6:32] Seth Dennis: Where did you grow?

[6:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Where did you grow up?

[6:34] Seth Dennis: Central California.

[6:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: So you probably were in essence sun-dried yourself.

[6:39] Seth Dennis: Yeah. But I would say that's very utilitarian and kind of dumb. I don't like it.

[6:43] Seth Dennis: I'm from Fresno.

[6:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh, beautiful.

[6:47] Seth Dennis: Not really.

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[7:47] Seth Dennis: Why do you think the braisin didn't take off?

[7:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You know, I understand that brazen is also just a word, so there may be some confusion.

[7:57] Seth Dennis: Like shorthand for braising something?

[7:59] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, that too.

[8:00] Seth Dennis: But brazen B R A Z E N is also a word.

[8:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I was thinking B R A I S I N apostrophe. Just what am I up to? Oh, just brazen this turkey.

[8:09] Seth Dennis: That's true. That's true. Mm-hmm. But you meant brazen B R A Z E N.

[8:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes, but my dad's pitch for blueberry raisins would have been braisins like raisin, but with a B in front of it.

[8:23] Seth Dennis: Right, what I was thinking, brazen a turkey. They told him yes, that's these are this is exactly probably why. And I understand that, but they shouldn't have fired my father.

[8:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No.

[8:32] Seth Dennis: Now we have this whole other counterculture of like, let's just name things for what it is. We don't call toilet paper butt paper. You know what I mean? I just think this new, like, let's call things what they actually are, even though sun dried tomatoes are not dried in the sun, and you cannot prove that. Um it's not true.

[8:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay.

[8:52] Seth Dennis: Don't call it that.

[8:54] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. Mm mm. Mm mm. Now I'm I'm I'm starting to understand what you're saying about the utilitarian nature of certain names um ca and I guess it's making me think about other food items specifically um yeah I like opened Pandora's box in your brain didn't I you've given me a lot to think about there's more where that came from oh are you single um it's that's a yes you are a wild one you have no idea I'm getting a s a a a glimpse and it's uh a glimpse of what you're bringing a strange energy into this room and I'm not against it.

[9:34] Seth Dennis: Mm-hmm.

[9:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm just not I don't totally understand it yet.

[9:38] Seth Dennis: You're not up against it yet.

[9:41] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure. Mm-hmm. Now getting back to food names um although I do really enjoy the example of toilet paper not being called butt paper.

[9:48] Seth Dennis: That's right.

[9:49] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Um something like let's take an everyday staple like olive oil.

[9:53] Seth Dennis: Mm-hmm yeah you don't call it pressed olive juice pretzels is another one by the way you don't call it dried breadsticks.

[10:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: In a fun shape.

[10:02] Seth Dennis: Yeah no you call it pretzel because it's magical it's like pretzel where's that from that sounds fun.

[10:10] Seth Dennis: Now lobbying for sun-dried tomatoes to be called traisins, is there any part of you that wants it just to have a completely new name? Like, does everything that's dried have to be a variation on a raisin to a crazen? For example, cured meats, you know, do you want meats to be called marisons?

[10:32] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No.

[10:33] Seth Dennis: Okay. But I think cured meats is already a great name because we don't call it dried pig intestines in a casing.

[10:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure.

[10:43] Seth Dennis: You don't call a hot dog parts of the pig no one wanted wrapped up in a little casing and fed to children.

[10:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm.

[10:50] Seth Dennis: You call it a hot dog. And then everyone wants one.

[10:53] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Right. I bet you love hot dogs, don't you?

[10:57] Seth Dennis: I actually do love hot dogs. And sausage.

[11:00] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm sure you love a sausage.

[11:02] Seth Dennis: But you don't want cased up crap meat that nobody else wants, and then we're gonna dry it up.

[11:09] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Sure. Whatever.

[11:10] Seth Dennis: No, I think your point is finally starting to resonate.

[11:13] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Ding.

[11:14] Seth Dennis: Hmm. Resonate. Hot dog. Sounds artistic. It's an artistic food name only.

[11:21] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mmm. You see what I'm getting? You see where I'm going with this?

[11:24] Seth Dennis: Yeah. So what have your efforts been to try to change the tide with sun-dried tomatoes? What have you been—how does it work? What do you do?

[11:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I write a letter every day.

[11:32] Seth Dennis: Who do you write the letter to?

[11:33] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Depends. Listen, what I'm hoping—I don't really know what the heck I'm doing, let's be honest. And I think you know that.

[11:39] Seth Dennis: I appreciate your vulnerability.

[11:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Thank you. No one really recognizes that. Anyway, I appreciate that. Um, I'm looking for somebody. I'm hoping someone today, maybe a lawyer, will listen to this podcast and say, "He's right. I'm gonna help him because I actually know things." And then he's gonna call me or she. It could be anybody. Just help me get things back on track. We gotta make this great again, you know? Like food. We gotta make food naming great again.

[12:16] Seth Dennis: Kind of lost me there.

[12:18] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'll find you.

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[13:30] Seth Dennis: Okay. So would your dream be that in a few years, however long it takes, that you're at a salad bar, and you say, "Uh, I'll have chickpeas, carrots, cucumber, traisins."

[13:41] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Brazins.

[13:42] Seth Dennis: Brazins, whatever else you put in your salad.

[13:45] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Amen. I'd like to be able when I'm doing my cross-country road trips alone. Yeah. I would like to be able to stop in at a, you know, at a rest stop and say, "I'd like my beef jerky, and also give me a packet of traisins and some braisins while you're at it."

[14:03] Seth Dennis: Yeah. And crazins.

[14:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. And some actual raisins. So your dream scenario would be when you're looking at food on a menu or you're in a store that nothing is named in a way that indicates what it actually is.

[14:15] Seth Dennis: I want artistic food names only. I want the magic of naming things to be brought out into the sun. To be seen in the light.

[14:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[14:26] Seth Dennis: For the power and magic that Ronco instilled in me and in everybody in this world.

[14:31] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah. And it's interesting because, um, speaking of naming things, Ronco is an interesting name.

[14:37] Seth Dennis: Never heard it.

[14:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I think it is a beautiful name. Mm-hmm. Do you actually enjoy eating sundried tomatoes? Do you like them as a food?

[14:44] Seth Dennis: Not when I call them that.

[14:46] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. But do you enjoy eating traisins?

[14:49] Seth Dennis: Yeah, I do.

[14:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. And it hurts me to say that. You know?

[14:53] Seth Dennis: Mm-hmm. Drives me nuts. Yeah. My wife never got that. My second wife. Well, the first wife didn't either.

[14:59] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Oh.

[15:01] Seth Dennis: Are you married?

[15:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Not anymore.

[15:03] Seth Dennis: Oh.

[15:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I'm um, not totally married either.

[15:09] Seth Dennis: Interesting. Now, in preparing for this interview, I did do some research that, um, plums and prunes.

[15:19] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Amen, sister.

[15:20] Seth Dennis: That there are some people who would like to see prunes called dried plums. What do you think about that?

[15:25] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Heathens.

[15:26] Seth Dennis: Mm. So what do you want to call 'em, dried plums now?

[15:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No, I actually don't have a ton of opinions about it either way.

[15:34] Seth Dennis: Well, you should.

[15:35] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. Because where do we stop? Do you call a guitar a piece of wood with some strings on it that makes music?

[15:42] Seth Dennis: Well, I think if you start to really break it down, all of language is kind of, um, you know, they're all just symbols and they're shorthands so that we understand what something is. They're all just gobbledygook words, you know.

[15:54] Seth Dennis: Yeah, but gobbledygook sounds fun. You see a space for more artistry in the naming of things because if you really just wanted the bare facts, you—you would stick to wanting it to be—

[15:57] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: I don't want the bare facts. Who wants the bare facts? That's the world I have to live in that we all have to live in. You know, Seth, you're evicted from your apartment. Seth, I want a divorce. Seth, you're fired. Those are the facts. What I want is, "Seth, you get to go to Scuba Dadash." And that actually means fired, but I get to think of it as a happy place.

[16:29] Seth Dennis: Oh.

[16:30] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You know? Don't give me the facts.

[16:33] Seth Dennis: Yeah. Who wants that? You're a dreamer, Seth.

[16:36] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Amen, sister. And I have a feeling you are too.

[16:42] Seth Dennis: Uh-oh.

[16:43] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You have no idea.

[16:44] Seth Dennis: But the word—but I bet you don't like meatball, do you?

[16:47] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: No. The stories we tell ourselves and how we name things that we see in the world create what we see and the life that we're gonna live. So I want that to be as magical as possible.

[17:01] Seth Dennis: Yeah.

[17:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: And as obscured maybe as possible.

[17:05] Seth Dennis: Tomato, tomato.

[17:07] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Traisin, traw, and yeah. Do you think no-call gum is some science project that you put in your mouth? We don't even know what that is.

[17:17] Seth Dennis: Where can people find out more about AFNO?

[17:20] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: W W dot A F N O dot net.

[17:26] Seth Dennis: And what will they find there?

[17:28] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: It's—I just bought it. I—I—oh, I mean, I didn't just buy it. I mean, I've bought it. I'm not good with computers. So right now it's, uh, there's a big construction sign thing on it.

[17:40] Seth Dennis: But if they keep checking under construction, they keep checking in. I've got a court date in a couple months. After that, I should have some time.

[17:46] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Okay. And why should the general public get behind AFNO?

[17:52] Seth Dennis: To bring magic back into our food.

[17:55] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Mm-hmm. You know? Like chicken nugget. What's better than a chicken nugget?

[18:02] Seth Dennis: Hmm.

[18:02] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: We don't know what it is.

[18:04] Seth Dennis: Right.

[18:05] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: But we want it. Because as a kid, our parents took us to McDonald's and said, "Get the kid some chicken nuggets, and here's a happy meal with a little toy."

[18:15] Seth Dennis: Yeah.

[18:15] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: They didn't say what it actually is, and I don't want to know.

[18:19] Seth Dennis: Yeah, it seems like, um, people are—the more we find out about what exactly is inside of a chicken nugget, the less we want to know.

[18:27] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: In general, I think the more you find out about life, the less you want to know.

[18:32] Seth Dennis: Hmm. So why don't we just hold hands and take a step away from that line?

[18:38] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: You're a complicated man, Seth.

[18:40] Seth Dennis: Aren't you?

[18:42] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yeah. Are you lonely?

[18:47] Seth Dennis: Are you lonely?

[18:50] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Yes.

[18:53] Seth Dennis: Me too.

[18:56] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Well, thank you so much for joining us. This has been truly illuminating. Thank you, Seth.

[19:00] Seth Dennis: Thank you, lady.

[19:03] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Not gonna say my names.

[19:05] Seth Dennis: I think you will.

[19:08] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: At another time.

[19:11] Seth Dennis: Fair enough. Thanks so much for joining us.

[19:14] Emily Amy Lauren Becca: Thank you. Seth Dennis called me a few times after our interview. He wanted to get together to talk more about AFNO. But my spidey senses perked up, and I got the impression he was looking for a little more than just casual conversation. After his fourth attempt, I told him to please delete my number, and I'm happy to say I've never seen that creep again. You can check out www.afhno.com if you'd like, but like he said, there's nothing there. I'm Emily Amy Lauren Becca. Thanks for listening, and as always, for supporting Support For This Podcast.